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Re: the corpse picture

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  • Stephen Hale
    Gordienko transcribed the book from Bondarev. She knew nothing about anthroposophy. It was her respect as a young scientist that was seen as a possible
    Message 1 of 22 , Dec 2, 2007
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      Gordienko transcribed the book from Bondarev. She knew nothing
      about anthroposophy. It was her respect as a young scientist that
      was seen as a possible antidote to Prokofieff's rise to power.

      In other words, Bondarev dictated the book to a young, innocent and
      respected Russian scientist who was given authorship because she
      wrote down the words. The aftermath is on Bondarev.

      So ask him. That's the much bigger question. But you see, he's an
      even bigger chicken than Joel Wendt. Else, why wouldn't he himself
      spearhead what America needs to here?

      Steve

      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "tmasthenes13" <TomBuoyed@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > You might find it interesting to know that Irina Gordienko wrote
      the
      > > book against Proky right there in Bondy's personal library. Yes
      > > indeed. And Willy Lochmann has it in his vault as proof.
      Russian
      > > long-hand written right from Bondy's lips to the one who would
      > > ultimately be the fall gal.
      > >
      > > So please, picture a young aspiring Russian scientist with very
      > > little time for such as this. Picture it, and think about it.
      > >
      > >===========================
      >
      > Hi Stephen,
      >
      > What do you know about the early days in Moscow when Sergei P. and
      > Irina G. were both students of Gennady Bondarev?
      >
      > These accusations of "Holocaust Denial" remind me so much of the
      > McCarthy hearings when the accusations were of being "Communist."
      >
      > Yet there is something very deep, dark and secret there that just
      > about all anthroposophists do not want to see at all.
      >
      > Tom
      >
    • tmasthenes13
      ... ============================= Stephen, Thanks for your response. That s news to me about Irina merely transcribing and not composing it herself. How
      Message 2 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Gordienko transcribed the book from Bondarev. She knew nothing
        > about anthroposophy. It was her respect as a young scientist that
        > was seen as a possible antidote to Prokofieff's rise to power.
        >
        > In other words, Bondarev dictated the book to a young, innocent and
        > respected Russian scientist who was given authorship because she
        > wrote down the words. The aftermath is on Bondarev.
        >
        > So ask him. That's the much bigger question. But you see, he's an
        > even bigger chicken than Joel Wendt. Else, why wouldn't he himself
        > spearhead what America needs to here?
        >
        =============================

        Stephen,

        Thanks for your response. That's news to me about Irina merely
        transcribing and not composing it herself. How Russian this intrigue!
        Wonderfully Byzantine! (And that's close enough to Mother Russia!)

        But what do you know about SP being in the circle of Bondarev's study
        group in Moscow along with Irina?

        As for asking SP, I think it is just a fantasy-bluff-troll by someone
        new on AT.

        But from reading a number of German blogs recently, I'm getting a
        sense that there is someone on the Vorstand who is expressing what SP
        is suppressing, and that is Bodo von Plato.

        What do you think should be -- and should have been --- brought to
        America?

        Tom
      • carol
        OK guys, I think I m getting THE picture. Tom, try to fit this in to your concept of both streams incarnating at this time- though I think my interpretation
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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          OK guys, I think I'm getting THE picture. Tom, try to fit this in to your concept of both streams incarnating at this time- though I think my interpretation underlies it further.

          I happen to know that the Russian folk (etheric) stream is actively moving ahead with bringing Spirit down into the progressive currents of the earthly sphere. My biological makeup is predominantly Polish/Ukranian with some Italien/? (my father was adopted and his biologcal mother, who we all came to know, wasn't renown for honesty). Anyway, just to say that I have been priviledged enough to some degree, to plug into the progressive spirit forces running through the Eastern etheric folk soul. There is a very strong force acting on the spirit level in the greater Russian soul which goes something like this- if you're not 'in' to participate with it, it will go on, on it's own. Pure and simple.

          Bondarev is obviously a very great incarnated spirit of an extremely high moral 'standard'. In retrospect to all that I have come to know to date through supersensible experience and by what all these and other external details seem to be communicating, I would say that if there were any presently incarnate individual who would be capable of (cognisizing?) knowing exactly what the Anthroposophical Society/Mouvement should be doing at this time (end of 1st spirit impulse) it would be Bondarev. He has 1 decade ago stated his understanding of the fundamental ability of the Slavic 'physique' to support an earthly absorbtion of progressive spirit forces ( a complex configuration of etheric form which diffuses itself within the etheric body). To understand any intellectual/philosophical debate between Russians, one MUST first know that this 'active spirit phenomema' distinct to the Slavic physique along with the pressing message coming through the folk soul to ADVANCE, underlies the WHOLE.

          We know that both Bondarev and now approx 50 members (likely exceptional Anthros) have been given the door of the Society. I think we have to use a little 'sympathetic understanding' towards this. It is now obvious to me through the FACT that this occured has shown a gaining Asuric enslavement over the Anthroposophic Society/Movement. It appears to me- for the Society to have been properly guided through the last, lets say 60 years, would have taken COHESIVENESS between enough extremely moral and highly objective spirit cognisant individuals- something which this earthly soul fabric seems not to have furnished.

          What this soul fabric did furnish is the MEANS and CONDITIONS for the ELEVATION of MORALITY and objective Spirit cognition. It may not have been clear to the many individuals filtering through the Society over the years that LIKELY the most important TASK to be acheived before the beginning of the 3rd millennium was the ELEVATION of MORALITY and objective spirit cognition which itself MAY have produced enough COHESION within the Society/Movement.

          As it turns out, the 3rd millennium arrived to deliver a new Spirit Impulse with incarnate INDIVIDUALS ready to take up their tasks, HOWEVER scattered outside of the Society, and not only FORCED to focuss on the synchronistic principal of bringing in highly sublime Devachanic forces into the Earthly Soul realm, but also having to FIGHT the PROFANE FORCES attacking the Anthroposophic Mouvement (which itself flows through these same individuals) and of which are cultivated and propogated through compromised, LOW MORAL STANDARDS of the now MAJORITY of the Society's members. (?)

          That a given individual felt that the Anthroposophical Society/Movement PERMITS enough LEEWAY to post an image of a Corpse accompanied by conceptual degradation of ALL the soul strivings represented by the individual RM, clearly illustrates to what extend the WHOLE of Anthroposophic Society/ movement has fallen under Asuric forces.

          I strongly beleive that this individual COULD not have 'subconsciously' assumed enough freedom to bring such a compromised action to realisation had the Society/Movement, at this moment, still HELD within it's BOSSOM, a VERY strong presence of highly MORAL indiviuduals. This individual would not, even further, have afterwards received acceptance from so called fellow Anthros either.

          You see, my point is that this all has to do with how ANTHROPSOPHY behaves within the earth's spiritually sublime, collective soul fabric. Once you DISGRACE and thus weaken the influencial spiritualised soul forces of the FEWER 'good guys', the larger numbers of weaker ones with their respective weaker soul forces assume monopoly of the place.

          And we're talking here of an Anthropsophic spirit current/impulse.

          This situation ISN'T good.

          Carol.

           

           

           


          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "tmasthenes13" <TomBuoyed@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" sardisian01@
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Gordienko transcribed the book from Bondarev. She knew nothing
          > > about anthroposophy. It was her respect as a young scientist that
          > > was seen as a possible antidote to Prokofieff's rise to power.
          > >
          > > In other words, Bondarev dictated the book to a young, innocent and
          > > respected Russian scientist who was given authorship because she
          > > wrote down the words. The aftermath is on Bondarev.
          > >
          > > So ask him. That's the much bigger question. But you see, he's an
          > > even bigger chicken than Joel Wendt. Else, why wouldn't he himself
          > > spearhead what America needs to here?
          > >
          > =============================
          >
          > Stephen,
          >
          > Thanks for your response. That's news to me about Irina merely
          > transcribing and not composing it herself. How Russian this intrigue!
          > Wonderfully Byzantine! (And that's close enough to Mother Russia!)
          >
          > But what do you know about SP being in the circle of Bondarev's study
          > group in Moscow along with Irina?
          >
          > As for asking SP, I think it is just a fantasy-bluff-troll by someone
          > new on AT.
          >
          > But from reading a number of German blogs recently, I'm getting a
          > sense that there is someone on the Vorstand who is expressing what SP
          > is suppressing, and that is Bodo von Plato.
          >
          > What do you think should be -- and should have been --- brought to
          > America?
          >
          > Tom
          >

        • Stephen Hale
          ... intrigue! ... This came out awhile ago now when I suggested that either Bondarev or Prokofieff himself was the true author of the book credited to Irina
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "tmasthenes13" <TomBuoyed@...>
            wrote:
            > Stephen,
            >
            > Thanks for your response. That's news to me about Irina merely
            > transcribing and not composing it herself. How Russian this
            intrigue!
            > Wonderfully Byzantine! (And that's close enough to Mother Russia!)

            This came out awhile ago now when I suggested that either Bondarev
            or Prokofieff himself was the true author of the book credited to
            Irina Gordienko. If you are at least familiar with the book, it is
            an attempt to show that Sergei Prokofieff's works concerning Rudolf
            Steiner and Anthroposophy are not in accord with Rudolf Steiner's
            intent. And many examples indicating disparity between Steiner and
            Prokofieff are given, demonstrating that the author has a very keen
            knowledge of both men's work, which very few in this entire world
            could possibly have, except Bondarev and Prokofieff. Irina
            Gordienko was a young Russian scientist engaged in micro-biological
            research, and writing monographs of her studies. At 33 years of
            age, she finds out that her name is affixed to this book, and she is
            known to have disavowed its authorship other than the fact that she
            wrote down the words. According to Willy Lochmann, who Robert Mason
            wrote to concerning this issue of authorship, the original hand-
            written manuscript by her is locked away in his vault. And Lochmann
            attests that she was in contact with Bondarev and used his personal
            library.

            > But what do you know about SP being in the circle of Bondarev's
            study
            > group in Moscow along with Irina?

            Nothing. But I strongly doubt that this woman had much time or even
            any interest in anthroposophy considering her own rigorous and
            highly stressful career. She already had more than a full plate
            going. In 1997, the book is published with the clear intent of
            undermining Prokofieff's rise through the ranks to executorship. It
            was meant clearly for the people at the GAS to see that Steiner's
            work was not being properly served by Prokofieff. The book was
            meant to side-track SP from making further inroads toward the
            Vorstand most certainly, but it also wanted to show that he was
            bringing something different into anthroposophy that was not from
            Steiner. In 1998, Bondarev gets expelled from the GAS, while SP
            moves right on toward his goal and the welcoming arms of the GAS.
            In 1999, Irina Gordienko dies in an accident, never able to tell us
            her side of things.
            >
            > As for asking SP, I think it is just a fantasy-bluff-troll by
            someone
            > new on AT.

            I would love asking SP some questions. Joel Wendt had a twenty
            minute private conference with him at the ASiA conference in 2005,
            and asked about the book and his reaction to it. I believe that
            Joel might still have the encounter on his website. One issue, from
            my standpoint, is this introduction SP wrote for his book on RS and
            the founding of the new mysteries. After naming every book or
            lecture that he had read on his path toward writing the book, he
            suddenly tells of a book that falls into his hands that gives every
            detail of how in the ten years from 1925 to 1935 it was all
            destroyed; and it made him physical ill for days.

            Now that's the book I want to read! So what is its name, and who is
            the author? Who could have written such a book? Probably one of
            those german scholars with access to all the original history and
            its account of things. But in the back of my mind is the idea that
            it could have been Steiner's own account from his autobiography,
            which I clearly believe he finished, intending as he told those
            involved in the karmic relationships of the anthroposophical
            movement that he would give them. And that it would tell all; the
            outer aspect of his life, as well as the inner. This is one of the
            important biographical additions to be found in the KR. Finishing
            his autobiography was a very high objective; even higher than the
            leading thoughts, which continued to be published even after his
            death. This indicates that he wrote for the future.
            >
            > But from reading a number of German blogs recently, I'm getting a
            > sense that there is someone on the Vorstand who is expressing what
            SP
            > is suppressing, and that is Bodo von Plato.

            I have certain strong feelings about SP concerning something Steiner
            tells about the Russian man of the 20th century, and how it is
            possible for the western occultists to make use of someone from the
            eastern part of Europe for a decidedly luciferic influence. And
            I'll post it when I can. It was proffered back on AT around the
            time of that conference at Ann Arbor in 2005.

            One other thing that make me doubt SP's honesty concerns what he
            says, again from the introduction to RS and the Founding of the New
            Mysteries, when he says that at the time that he was reading about
            the CC of 1923, that only two or three people in Russia even knew
            about it. This seems highly doubtful.
            >
            > What do you think should be -- and should have been --- brought to
            > America?
            >
            > Tom

            That is a good question. And thanks for asking it because you'll be
            interested in the answer. It concerns in large part why Rudy had
            such a hard-on about the migration of the arabism. The reason is
            because it's a theme that migrated across the waters 400 years ago,
            where the anti-sun oracle already resided. More on that later.

            Steve
          • Stephen Hale
            ... Steiner ... the ... What I am going to post below is from GA200, The New Spirituality and the Christ Event of the Twentieth Century , wherein Steiner gave
            Message 5 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
              <sardisian01@...> wrote:
              > I have certain strong feelings about SP concerning something
              Steiner
              > tells about the Russian man of the 20th century, and how it is
              > possible for the western occultists to make use of someone from
              the
              > eastern part of Europe for a decidedly luciferic influence. And
              > I'll post it when I can. It was proffered back on AT around the
              > time of that conference at Ann Arbor in 2005.

              What I am going to post below is from GA200, "The New Spirituality
              and the Christ Event of the Twentieth Century", wherein Steiner gave
              his clearest exposition of just how the western occultists have the
              power and the definite aim of taking control of the world and
              humankind through an intelligence that is nearly incomprehensible.
              This is what he says concerning how these occultists infiltrate the
              eastern world's spiritual-cultural domain for evil purposes. And
              it, along with the entire lecture course, proves just how important
              spiritual science is in order to defeat these evil forces. Here it
              is, and see where maybe Prokofieff fits in here? - Steve


              "The East had once a grand and lofty life of spirit. All
              spirituality – with the exception of what is striven for in
              Anthroposophy and is trying to give itself new form – all
              spirituality of the civilized world is, in actual fact, a legacy of
              the East. But the real glory of this religious-spiritual life was
              present in the East only in ancient times. And today the Eastern
              human being, even in Russia, finds himself in a strange disharmony
              because on the one hand he still lives in the ancient spiritual
              element of his heritage and, on the other, there is also working in
              him that which comes out of the present epoch of human development;
              namely the training towards becoming an individual.

              This brings about a situation such that, in the East, there is a
              strong decadence in humanity; that, in a sense, the human being
              cannot become a full human being; that hard on the heels of this
              Eastern human being, as far west as Russia, is the spiritual
              heritage of ancient times. And this has the effect that when today
              the consciousness of this Eastern human being is lowered, when he is
              in a condition of sleep or dreaming, or in some kind of mediumistic
              trance state which is so very frequent in the East, he is then,
              indeed, not entirely impregnated by another being as in the West,
              but this being works into his soul nature; these beings, as it were,
              appear to him. Whereas in the West it is premature beings of three
              kinds that are at work, in the East it is retarded beings, beings
              that have remained behind from an earlier evolutionary stage of
              perfection and who now appear to human beings of the East in a
              mediumistic state, in dreams, or simply during sleep, so that the
              human being in a waking state then bears within him the inspirations
              of such beings; is inspired during the day by the after-effects of
              beings of this kind who come over him during the night.

              And here again there are three types of beings working in the East
              who likewise have a great influence. Whereas in the West one has to
              draw attention to individual human beings through whom these beings
              incarnate, in the East one must point to a kind of hierarchy that
              can appear to the most varied people. Again it is three types of
              beings; not, however, beings that incarnate through people but
              beings that appear to people and also inspire them during sleep at
              night.

              The first type of these beings prevents the human being from taking
              full possession of his physical body, hinders him from finding a
              connection with the economic element, with the public conditions of
              the present-day in general. These are the beings who seek in the
              East to hold back the economic life as it is needed in the threefold
              social order.

              The second type of beings are those that produce
              overindividualization – a kind of, if I may put it so paradoxically,
              unegoistic egoism. This is all the more subtle in the way it is so
              frequently found in people, particularly of the East, who fancifully
              attribute to themselves all possible selflessness – a selflessness
              which, however, is in fact a particularly subtle form of self-
              seeking, a particularly subtle egoism. They want to be absolutely
              good, they want to be as good as it is ever possible to be. This,
              too, is an egoistic sentiment. This is something that can be called,
              paradoxically, an unegoistic egoism, an egoism arising from an
              imagined selflessness.

              The third type of being that appears, in the way described, to human
              beings of the East are those beings that hold back the spiritual
              life from the earth; that spread , as it were, a dull mystical
              atmosphere over human beings, as can be found so frequently today,
              particularly in the East. And again, these three types of spiritual
              beings, which work down from the spiritual world and do not
              incarnate into human beings, are the enemies of the threefold social
              organism. In this way the threefold impulse is hemmed in from the
              spiritual side in the East and from the human side, as described, in
              the West. Thus we see here the spiritual foundations underlying the
              differentiation."
            • isenhart7
              ... Society/Movement ... What I find interesting is that the same individual responsible for the corpse photo provided the only response to Tom s question
              Message 6 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:

                > That a given individual felt that the Anthroposophical
                Society/Movement
                > PERMITS enough LEEWAY to post an image of a Corpse accompanied by
                > conceptual degradation of ALL the soul strivings represented by the
                > individual RM, clearly illustrates to what extend the WHOLE of
                > Anthroposophic Society/ movement has fallen under Asuric forces.

                What I find interesting is that the same individual responsible for the
                corpse photo provided the only response to Tom's question regarding
                Christ.-Val
              • Stephen Hale
                ... the ... Val, what was Tom s question regarding Christ? Since I am permanently expelled from AT it is difficult for me to follow the discussion here. Steve
                Message 7 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "isenhart7" <isenhart7@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@> wrote:
                  >
                  > > That a given individual felt that the Anthroposophical
                  > Society/Movement
                  > > PERMITS enough LEEWAY to post an image of a Corpse accompanied by
                  > > conceptual degradation of ALL the soul strivings represented by the
                  > > individual RM, clearly illustrates to what extend the WHOLE of
                  > > Anthroposophic Society/ movement has fallen under Asuric forces.
                  >
                  > What I find interesting is that the same individual responsible for
                  the
                  > corpse photo provided the only response to Tom's question regarding
                  > Christ.-Val

                  Val, what was Tom's question regarding Christ? Since I am permanently
                  expelled from AT it is difficult for me to follow the discussion here.

                  Steve
                • isenhart7
                  ... Who is Christ? Val
                  Message 8 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                    wrote:

                    > Val, what was Tom's question regarding Christ?

                    "Who is Christ?"

                    Val
                  • isenhart7
                    ... I m not on the AT list either, Steve, and I find it difficult to follow the discussion there. I am always bothered when your name is mentioned there
                    Message 9 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                      wrote:

                      > Since I am permanently
                      > expelled from AT it is difficult for me to follow the discussion here.

                      I'm not on the AT list either, Steve, and I find it difficult to follow
                      the discussion there. I am always bothered when your name is mentioned
                      there because I know that you cannot respond. But better to be the
                      expellee, I think, than the expeller if the idiotic, slatthering, lap-
                      dog he now appears to have been reduced to is any indication.-Val
                    • Stephen Hale
                      ... Well wouldn t Christ be the six-fold Elohim of the Sun?
                      Message 10 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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                        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "isenhart7" <isenhart7@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@>
                        > wrote:
                        >
                        > > Val, what was Tom's question regarding Christ?
                        >
                        > "Who is Christ?"
                        >
                        > Val

                        Well wouldn't Christ be the six-fold Elohim of the Sun?
                      • isenhart7
                        ... He could be if one were able to formulate and articulate a response. A tall order apparently for one on the AT list. Lucky the go-to guy was on the job.
                        Message 11 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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                          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                          wrote:

                          > Well wouldn't Christ be the six-fold Elohim of the Sun?

                          He could be if one were able to formulate and articulate a response. A
                          tall order apparently for one on the AT list. Lucky the "go-to" guy was
                          on the job. Whew-Val
                        • Stephen Hale
                          ... here. ... follow ... mentioned ... I have no problem whatsoever being expelled. I just can t always follow the discussions if they pass over here. As for
                          Message 12 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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                            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "isenhart7" <isenhart7@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@>
                            > wrote:
                            >
                            > > Since I am permanently
                            > > expelled from AT it is difficult for me to follow the discussion
                            here.
                            >
                            > I'm not on the AT list either, Steve, and I find it difficult to
                            follow
                            > the discussion there. I am always bothered when your name is
                            mentioned
                            > there because I know that you cannot respond. But better to be the
                            > expellee, I think, than the expeller if the idiotic, slatthering, lap-
                            > dog he now appears to have been reduced to is any indication.-Val

                            I have no problem whatsoever being expelled. I just can't always
                            follow the discussions if they pass over here. As for the expeller, he
                            will always have my admiration for the simple fact that his mother was
                            an anthroposophist, an American by the way, and received anthroposophy
                            from her. I like that very much, although I think he would have much
                            rather been a 'beat' poet along the lines of Jack Kerouak or Allen
                            Ginsberg, or a sixties anti-generationalist like the likes of Dylan or
                            Joan Baez. He's an anarchist in all cases. The question is: What can
                            an anarchist do about anything, except suffer?

                            I see the suffering, Val. Thanks.

                            Steve
                          • isenhart7
                            ... ... discussion ... the ... lap- ... expeller, he ... was ... anthroposophy ... In that case, really, we should cue up Loves Me Like a Rock
                            Message 13 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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                              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                              <sardisian01@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "isenhart7" <isenhart7@>
                              wrote:
                              > >
                              > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                              <sardisian01@>
                              > > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > Since I am permanently
                              > > > expelled from AT it is difficult for me to follow the
                              discussion
                              > here.
                              > >
                              > > I'm not on the AT list either, Steve, and I find it difficult to
                              > follow
                              > > the discussion there. I am always bothered when your name is
                              > mentioned
                              > > there because I know that you cannot respond. But better to be
                              the
                              > > expellee, I think, than the expeller if the idiotic, slatthering,
                              lap-
                              > > dog he now appears to have been reduced to is any indication.-Val
                              >
                              > I have no problem whatsoever being expelled. I just can't always
                              > follow the discussions if they pass over here. As for the
                              expeller, he
                              > will always have my admiration for the simple fact that his mother
                              was
                              > an anthroposophist, an American by the way, and received
                              anthroposophy
                              > from her.


                              In that case, really, we should cue up "Loves Me Like a Rock" by Paul
                              Simon. And speaking of rocks-this is from one of my favorite rock
                              songs:

                              And I don't want to hear a sad story
                              Full of heartbreak and desire
                              The last time I felt like this
                              It was in the wilderness and the canyon was on fire
                              And I stood on the mountain in the night and I watched it burn
                              I watched it burn, I watched it burn.

                              I like that very much, although I think he would have much
                              > rather been a 'beat' poet along the lines of Jack Kerouak or Allen
                              > Ginsberg, or a sixties anti-generationalist like the likes of Dylan
                              or
                              > Joan Baez. He's an anarchist in all cases. The question is: What
                              can
                              > an anarchist do about anything, except suffer?

                              I knew Ginsberg and sorta met Bob once and though they did both
                              strike me as suffering, especially the latter, they did some fine
                              writing, don't you think?-Val
                            • isenhart7
                              ... Upon further reflection, Steve, I think my first answer wasn t very fair of me. An answer to Tom s question would have involved considering Tom s question
                              Message 14 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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                                > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@>
                                > wrote:
                                >
                                > > Well wouldn't Christ be the six-fold Elohim of the Sun?

                                Upon further reflection, Steve, I think my first answer wasn't very
                                fair of me. An answer to Tom's question would have involved considering
                                Tom's question and then clothing an answer in words, otherwise known as
                                putting two words together, in other words Grammatica, in other words
                                the Moon, in other words Beheading, in other words taking that first
                                step. Trips a lot of people up.-Val
                              • carol
                                Steve wrote: As for the expeller, he will always have my admiration for the simple fact that his mother was an anthroposophist, an American by the way, and
                                Message 15 of 22 , Dec 4, 2007
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                                  Steve wrote:"As for the expeller, he will always have my admiration for the simple fact that his mother was
                                  an anthroposophist, an American by the way, and received anthroposophy from her."

                                  Steve, One cannot justify one's attachment to Anthroposophy based on one's sentimental attachment to one's mother. One's commitment and respective responsibility towards the Anthroposophic Mouvement is a human phenomena which ideally falls in the domain of  individual experience- distinct and independent from the 'given' conditions of one's incarnation- one must, through the path of soul development rise above the 'given' conditions of family, geographic and nationalistic setting, even current time (when incorporating eternal self considerations) etc.

                                  If the expeller, which I strongly suspect, justifies his authority and 'belonging' to Anthroposophy by referring to the blood/hereditary bond with his mother, then he doesn't warrant MY whole hearted support.

                                  I noticed through his correspondences that he admitted to not having any siblings. So there you have it, a situation of an 'adored' child by an Anthroposophist American mother; a man who evidently does not exclusively employ Anthroposophic concepts, and when he does, they do not appear to reach to  any spiritual formative or substantial MORAL depth.

                                  Think about it.

                                  I also know anarchists in whom sub strata Christic sensitivity fashions their outer behavior with more sympathetic and non confrontationalist dispositions thus making it quite easy for me to genuinely appreciate them.  As well,  they have in their  possession' the means to genuinely appreciate signs of active heart forces.  

                                  Carol.

                                   

                                   


                                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "isenhart7" isenhart7@ wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@>
                                  > > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > > Since I am permanently
                                  > > > expelled from AT it is difficult for me to follow the discussion
                                  > here.
                                  > >
                                  > > I'm not on the AT list either, Steve, and I find it difficult to
                                  > follow
                                  > > the discussion there. I am always bothered when your name is
                                  > mentioned
                                  > > there because I know that you cannot respond. But better to be the
                                  > > expellee, I think, than the expeller if the idiotic, slatthering, lap-
                                  > > dog he now appears to have been reduced to is any indication.-Val
                                  >
                                  > I have no problem whatsoever being expelled. I just can't always
                                  > follow the discussions if they pass over here. As for the expeller, he
                                  > will always have my admiration for the simple fact that his mother was
                                  > an anthroposophist, an American by the way, and received anthroposophy
                                  > from her. I like that very much, although I think he would have much
                                  > rather been a 'beat' poet along the lines of Jack Kerouak or Allen
                                  > Ginsberg, or a sixties anti-generationalist like the likes of Dylan or
                                  > Joan Baez. He's an anarchist in all cases. The question is: What can
                                  > an anarchist do about anything, except suffer?
                                  >
                                  > I see the suffering, Val. Thanks.
                                  >
                                  > Steve
                                  >

                                • Stephen Hale
                                  ... for ... Carol, I say *that* because I picked on this man rather relentlessly before I was finally expelled; it was one of a number of components working at
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Dec 4, 2007
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                                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Steve wrote:"As for the expeller, he will always have my admiration
                                    for
                                    > the simple fact that his mother was
                                    > an anthroposophist, an American by the way, and received anthroposophy
                                    > from her."

                                    Carol, I say *that* because I picked on this man rather relentlessly
                                    before I was finally expelled; it was one of a number of components
                                    working at the time on AT. What you have to understand is that anyone
                                    who ever makes contact with spiritual science is receiving the
                                    substance of a modern form of initiation science.

                                    It has been previously mentioned that anyone, including PS and DD, and
                                    I would certainly include DW and VW, who makes contact with
                                    anthroposophical concepts CAN NOT ever get rid of its influence. The
                                    reason helps prove the fact that the substance of anthroposophy is a
                                    matter of a modern mystery.

                                    Tarjei Straume should really have never made contact with
                                    anthroposophy. It has proved to be the bane of his life, which is very
                                    well indicated in four years of rather repetitive correspondences of
                                    the rather negative and immoral kind to be found on AT. And if you
                                    want to scour the archives on that list you can find where I brought
                                    him to task on the matter. I saw the injustice all the way. He
                                    suffers for the simple reason that he has another life that he would
                                    rather be living. But his mother bequeathed her fortune to him, and as
                                    we know, anyone who makes contact with anthroposophy can never get rid
                                    of it.

                                    So, it has had the effect of making him a professional shit disturber
                                    as well. Simply see it for what it is. He is nothing more than the
                                    pawn in a much bigger enterprise designed to malign Rudolf Steiner and
                                    his anthroposophy. Behind AT are larger forces of the most extremely
                                    negative kind, and TS was selected for his work as moderator with this
                                    in mind. Powerful forces knew they could manipulate a man who got
                                    ahold of his mamma's anthroposophy books but wanted to do other things
                                    with his life. It is a rare opportunity for the occultists to find
                                    such a one as Tarjei Straume, both American and European.

                                    In closing, just look carefully at the front page of AT, and what it is
                                    supposed to imply for the future. And then think about how it has
                                    failed to produce results of the positive kind indicated for an
                                    anthroposophy of tomorrow. That forum has never done anything except
                                    create negative controversy against RS, and uses the WC as its own
                                    pawn. Very clever indeed, and Tarjei Straume is a very glib and clever
                                    guy. Folks were scouting him for the job, and when he got put on
                                    moderation by Starman's forum, he started that one. But other forces
                                    were behind it already. He admits that fact. So, he is also a
                                    compromiser who speaks on behalf of influences that are decidedly
                                    against the furtherance of spiritual science, and this fact is well
                                    demonstrated on that list.

                                    But I fight, and will always fight for the truth with no compromises
                                    whatsoever. And that is what you will consistently find concerning my
                                    contributions on that list for nearly two years, until August 5, 2006,
                                    when a trumped up charge of meddling in forum management was used to
                                    get me banned. And all I did was look into the moderator list and make
                                    comment that the sheriff of fartland and wherever that place in the
                                    hinterland of Norway was now a moderator. And wasn't that interesting,
                                    wink wink. That was all it took. They wanted me off because I was
                                    pushing real issues, and pushing real buttons. And that was offensive
                                    to the charade that continues today, as usual.

                                    In other words, "same shit, different day".

                                    Steve
                                  • carol
                                    Steve, I responded to this, but it seems to have become lost. Maybe it will show up in a week. C. ... anthroposophy ... is
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Dec 5, 2007
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                                      Steve, I responded to this, but it seems to have become lost. Maybe it
                                      will show up in a week. C.
                                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                                      wrote:
                                      >
                                      > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" organicethics@ wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Steve wrote:"As for the expeller, he will always have my admiration
                                      > for
                                      > > the simple fact that his mother was
                                      > > an anthroposophist, an American by the way, and received
                                      anthroposophy
                                      > > from her."
                                      >
                                      > Carol, I say *that* because I picked on this man rather relentlessly
                                      > before I was finally expelled; it was one of a number of components
                                      > working at the time on AT. What you have to understand is that anyone
                                      > who ever makes contact with spiritual science is receiving the
                                      > substance of a modern form of initiation science.
                                      >
                                      > It has been previously mentioned that anyone, including PS and DD, and
                                      > I would certainly include DW and VW, who makes contact with
                                      > anthroposophical concepts CAN NOT ever get rid of its influence. The
                                      > reason helps prove the fact that the substance of anthroposophy is a
                                      > matter of a modern mystery.
                                      >
                                      > Tarjei Straume should really have never made contact with
                                      > anthroposophy. It has proved to be the bane of his life, which is very
                                      > well indicated in four years of rather repetitive correspondences of
                                      > the rather negative and immoral kind to be found on AT. And if you
                                      > want to scour the archives on that list you can find where I brought
                                      > him to task on the matter. I saw the injustice all the way. He
                                      > suffers for the simple reason that he has another life that he would
                                      > rather be living. But his mother bequeathed her fortune to him, and as
                                      > we know, anyone who makes contact with anthroposophy can never get rid
                                      > of it.
                                      >
                                      > So, it has had the effect of making him a professional shit disturber
                                      > as well. Simply see it for what it is. He is nothing more than the
                                      > pawn in a much bigger enterprise designed to malign Rudolf Steiner and
                                      > his anthroposophy. Behind AT are larger forces of the most extremely
                                      > negative kind, and TS was selected for his work as moderator with this
                                      > in mind. Powerful forces knew they could manipulate a man who got
                                      > ahold of his mamma's anthroposophy books but wanted to do other things
                                      > with his life. It is a rare opportunity for the occultists to find
                                      > such a one as Tarjei Straume, both American and European.
                                      >
                                      > In closing, just look carefully at the front page of AT, and what it
                                      is
                                      > supposed to imply for the future. And then think about how it has
                                      > failed to produce results of the positive kind indicated for an
                                      > anthroposophy of tomorrow. That forum has never done anything except
                                      > create negative controversy against RS, and uses the WC as its own
                                      > pawn. Very clever indeed, and Tarjei Straume is a very glib and clever
                                      > guy. Folks were scouting him for the job, and when he got put on
                                      > moderation by Starman's forum, he started that one. But other forces
                                      > were behind it already. He admits that fact. So, he is also a
                                      > compromiser who speaks on behalf of influences that are decidedly
                                      > against the furtherance of spiritual science, and this fact is well
                                      > demonstrated on that list.
                                      >
                                      > But I fight, and will always fight for the truth with no compromises
                                      > whatsoever. And that is what you will consistently find concerning my
                                      > contributions on that list for nearly two years, until August 5, 2006,
                                      > when a trumped up charge of meddling in forum management was used to
                                      > get me banned. And all I did was look into the moderator list and make
                                      > comment that the sheriff of fartland and wherever that place in the
                                      > hinterland of Norway was now a moderator. And wasn't that interesting,
                                      > wink wink. That was all it took. They wanted me off because I was
                                      > pushing real issues, and pushing real buttons. And that was offensive
                                      > to the charade that continues today, as usual.
                                      >
                                      > In other words, "same shit, different day".
                                      >
                                      > Steve
                                      >
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