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Fwd: Vorstand Discord: Prokosophy vs. Bodosophy

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  • tmasthenes13
    ... wrote: Frank, Coming in from the periphery of the young neo-Anthro movement, let us gaze right now front and center at the source of the
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 30, 2007
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      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "tmasthenes13"
      <TomBuoyed@...> wrote:

      Frank,

      Coming in from the periphery of the young neo-Anthro movement, let us
      gaze right now front and center at the source of the contentious issue
      of Anthroposophy "with or w/o Steiner; Steiner with or w/o Christ."

      I link you to another article from Willy Lochmann's journal
      "Symptomatological Illustrations" Issue #38, dated April 2004.

      The title is Proko- vs. Bodosophismus" or

      Prokosophy vs. Bodosophy

      http://www.lochmann-verlag.com/Proko%20vs%20Bodosophismus%20Nr.%2038.pdf

      My first remark concerns the synchronicity of this article's
      publication. Notice that its issue came out in April 2004.

      Does that very month ring a bell? Yes, of course! It is the very
      month when Judith von Halle received the Gift of the Stigmata in Berlin.

      Now to the article, which notes that there is momentous discord on the
      present Vorstand between Sergei Prokofieff with his bevy of devotees
      and Bodo von Plato with his supporters.

      What's in a name? How interesting that that Bodo should have the last
      name of Plato!

      Does this mean that we should then christen Sergei Prokoffief as
      "Sergei von Aristotle?"

      Because, in skimming through the article --- to see if it might be
      worthy of my time in translating it --- it strikes me that this
      contentious division is exactly the same strife that blew apart the
      original Vorstand at the end of that harrowing decade from 1925 to 1935.

      Could it be a basic, endemic division that Rudolf Steiner indicated so
      many times as the division between the Platonic stream and the
      Aristotelian stream???

      However, if that were the case, then might we be obliged to reverse
      the names? With my penchant for finding "crossovers" and/or
      "chiasmas" in anthroposophy, I wonder if we should rename the two
      principal antagonists here as:

      Bodo von Aristotle vs. Sergei von Plato?

      And, Frank, do you not see that the issue is being fought out right
      here on AT? On one side, we have Dottie as the most enthusiastic,
      devoted and ambitious Prokosophist while the more I read about Bodo, I
      wonder if I am really a closet Bodosophist and perhaps should "out
      myself" as such.

      Now regardless of whether one is a devotee of Prokosophy or Bodosophy,
      it seems rather clear that both of these movements have transformed
      (some may say corrupted or perverted) the original Anthroposophy of
      Rudolf Steiner into something that I doubt he would recognize, but I'm
      sure Rudolf would approve and cheer on the mudslinging and mud
      wrestling we are all so good at here.

      After all, I have always maintained that the first part of "Oh, Man,
      Know Thyself!" is "Oh, Man, know thy Stream!"

      Maybe that's why so many of us feel like we are "up Scheisse's Creek
      without a paddle!"

      Tom

      --- End forwarded message ---
    • isenhart7
      ... Personally, I think it s tough to beat Bodo von Plato as a name but here s today s chiastic quote from the people at chiasmus.com: Each of us helplessly
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 1, 2007
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        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "tmasthenes13" <TomBuoyed@...>
        wrote:

        > However, if that were the case, then might we be obliged to reverse
        > the names? With my penchant for finding "crossovers" and/or
        > "chiasmas" in anthroposophy, I wonder if we should rename the two
        > principal antagonists here as:
        >
        > Bodo von Aristotle vs. Sergei von Plato?

        Personally, I think it's tough to beat Bodo von Plato as a name but
        here's today's chiastic quote from the people at chiasmus.com:

        "Each of us helplessly and forever,
        contains the other--
        male in female, female in male,
        white in black, and black in white.
        We are part of each other."

        Val
      • carol
        Re: Aristotelians and Platonists ...
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 2, 2007
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          Re: Aristotelians and Platonists

          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Olmsted"
          <sa.olmsted@...> wrote:

          >
          > All this talk about Platotelians got me remembering something Brian
          Gray at
          > RSC said at a conference on this very matter. It was kind of off
          the cuff
          > and a long while ago but I think he said that there were some who had
          > "special" incarnation circumstances that were in both streams. He said
          > these people tended to sit on the sidelines and lob bombs into the
          movement.
          > I thought it made sense: Categorizers needing a dramatic push, or
          dramatists
          > thinking they could channel the chaos with some well placed fireworks.
          >
          > For what it's worth...
          >
          > >Val here pointed out something I missed. You were right about the
          > >streams being over and under, but that's all ancient history now
          > >because both streams are now incarnated together, as Dr. Steiner
          > >predicted for the end of the 20th century.
          >
          > >And boy oh boy, do we have scores to settle!!!
          >
          > >Tom
          >=========================

          Hi Scott,

          Thank you so much for your contribution here. I certainly more than
          resemble that remark. It kind of fits me to a "T", doesn't it? The T
          for Tom!

          Plus Brian Gray and I were classmates together back when both of us
          were attending Rudolf Steiner College in the early 80's, so, from that
          spirit-rich environment, I also learned exactly which sacred
          proportions of which alchemical "gunpowder and nitroglycerine"
          elements, as it were, to custom make those projectiles for later use.

          Let's just say that Brian Gray would have many more stories to tell
          about me than I would about him, only because he behaved so goodly
          while I behaved so badly. And it's human nature to remember much more
          vividly the "behaving badly" stories than the "behaving goodly"
          ones.

          So here I had built up this stockpile of "Platotelian" WMD's but was
          so frustrated because I really had no outlet for my destiny calling.
          And then, in the mid 90's, along came the Internet.

          And I've been in "hog heaven" ever since.

          By the way, Scott, since you brought this up, maybe you could act as a
          kind of unofficial scorekeeper. To be karmically fair, I should lob
          grenades equally into both camps. I would request you to let me know
          if you feel I am bombing too much of one side and too little the other.

          On the other hand, perhaps equality is an abstract ideological
          consideration because my own sense is that I throw the bombs where
          they are karmically needed, and that means that I may have to
          concentrate on one camp for a long time.

          Anyway thanks again for unlurking. I hope my Scorpionic destructivity
          will be right kind of spiritual demolition work that opens up the
          forum and the field for some new anthroposophical thinking and insights.

          Tom

          Tom,  if a 'T' reveals your double nature,  then does my Car-ol mean that I embrase both streams as well?

          As for your scorpionic destructiveness,  I can gladly say that through having raised two boys,  (though perhaps girls may have given the same effect)  I received the necessary 'educational opportunity' to begin to discover how to appreciate and recognise the fine balance between  the surface message with the underlying intent.

          Perhaps many familial conflicts would soften if parents exercised more of an ear to their children's underlying messages when they are conveyed through spontaneous  and highly unpragmatic 'forms'. 

          And so have I 'indirectly' identified Tom as still knowing a  'youthful nature'?

          You see Tom, and as you know quite well,   Anthroposophy is really here,  where all pretense and glamour have no place,  but where all human life simply and naturally filters through. c. 

            




           

           

        • isenhart7
          ... I wonder if this echos the feeling of the Platonists who (supposedly) couldn t incarnate until now. ... I ve never been to heaven but I ve been to
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 2, 2007
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            Tom wrote:

            > So here I had built up this stockpile of "Platotelian" WMD's but was
            > so frustrated because I really had no outlet for my destiny calling.
            > And then, in the mid 90's, along came the Internet.

            I wonder if this echos the feeling of the Platonists who (supposedly)
            couldn't incarnate until now.

            > And I've been in "hog heaven" ever since.

            "I've never been to heaven
            but I've been to Oklahoma."

            Val
          • isenhart7
            The ancient Greek injunction, Man, know yourself, out of the old mysteries has been transformed today into a mighty question: Can you, O Man, recognize
            Message 5 of 5 , Dec 2, 2007
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              The ancient Greek injunction, 'Man, know yourself,' out of the old
              mysteries has been transformed today into a mighty question: 'Can you,
              O Man, recognize yourself as microcosmic and macrocosmic being
              inhabiting two worlds that are united in your heart? Discover the
              threefoldness of your essential being, the fourfoldness of the life
              body that permeates you, the sevenfoldness of the soul forces that
              animate you, the twelvefoldness reflected in the eternal nature of the
              Self.'

              Rene Querido
              The Golden Age of Chartes
              The Teachings of a Mystery School and the Eternal Feminine
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