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Fwd: Kissing Up to Adolf

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  • tmasthenes13
    ... wrote: Exactly 72 years ago this week, three Vorstand members, Albert Steffen, Marie Steiner and Guenther Wachsmuth, signed and sent the
    Message 1 of 21 , Nov 18, 2007
      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "tmasthenes13"
      <TomBuoyed@...> wrote:

      Exactly 72 years ago this week, three Vorstand members, Albert
      Steffen, Marie Steiner and Guenther Wachsmuth, signed and sent the
      following letter to Adolf Hitler, begging him to reinstate the
      Anthroposophical Society in Germany which had been recently dissolved
      by the Prussian Gestapo.

      (I include the German text following my translation for anyone to make
      suggestions and/or corrections.)

      It is quite insightful to contrast this "kissing up" letter sent to
      Adolf Hitler as Fuehrer in 1935 with the "kissing off" article written
      by Adolf Hitler as rabble-rouser in 1921 when he vilified Rudolf
      Steiner. (Thank you Dottie for posting that "Adolf on Rudolf" article.)

      I was really struck by the Vorstand's need to distance themselves
      immediately from any possible connection to Freemasons, Jews and
      pacifists. And then they had to assure "His Excellency" Adolf that
      Rudolf Steiner's bloodline was purely Aryan.

      Also catch their parenthetical insult to Mother Russia in the last
      paragraph. (Maybe that's why Bondarev got so pissed off at them!)

      Tom


      ======================================
      Dornach, November 17, 1935

      To the Fuehrer and Chancellor of the Reich

      Mr. Adolf Hitler

      Your Excellency!

      The undersigned members of the Executive Committee (Vorstand) of the
      General Anthroposophical Society with its seat in Dornach near Basel
      (Switzerland) consider themselves obligated, Your Excellency, to
      trouble you with this urgent appeal for your benevolent assistance in
      the following matter.

      As we know, the Anthroposophical Society has presently been dissolved
      in the territory of the German Reich by an order of the Prussian
      Secret State Police [Gestapo]. The reasons specified for this by the
      official authorities are put forth in the enclosed document. We must
      lodge a protest against this act of dissolution and especially against
      the reasons given, since these reasons do not correspond in any way to
      the facts.

      The General Anthroposophical Society, which was constituted and
      founded in the year 1923 by Dr. Rudolf Steiner, has had no connections
      whatsoever to any Freemasonic, Jewish, or pacifist circles, nor even
      any points of contact with them at all. Moreover, the Aryan line of
      descent of Rudolf Steiner was explicitly confirmed by the Office of
      Racial Politics in Berlin. Also, the designation of the Society as
      "international eingestellt" ["international in scope?"] in the sense
      that is used here as the reason for the dissolution is thoroughly
      appropriate because the relationships among the members of the
      individual countries are restricted only to the exchange of scientific
      ideas and artistic questions, just as every first-rate scientific and
      artistic organization fosters such exchange both in Germany and abroad.

      Numerous personalities from all civilized nations will gladly confirm,
      that the lecturers and artists of the Anthroposophical Society in
      wide-ranging circles abroad are keenly interested in the German
      spiritual life, to the point that even many, e.g.. English speaking
      personalities have learned the German language in order to study the
      original source material.

      Furthermore, the pedagogy, as it is cultivated at the Waldorf School
      and other schools in Germany according to the guidelines of Rudolf
      Steiner, has, in many countries outside Germany, met with the highest
      approval and even acts as a model. For example, as the New York
      Congress has once again indicated, many prominent American teacher
      associations are following the development of these schools with
      particular interest.

      But the result of the above-characterized measures against the
      Anthroposophical Society now occurring in many of these groups in
      foreign countries who are friendly and well disposed toward Germany is
      the following completely incomprehensible situation: that a Society,
      which is regarded as a valuable and active representative of the
      German spiritual life is suddenly dissolved in Germany for reasons
      which do not correspond with the facts.

      But of all the categorizations, a protest must also be made against
      the fact that, in the documentation of the Prussian Gestapo, out of
      misguided motivations, the allegation is also made that the
      Anthroposophical Society is "hostile to the state" in Germany. However
      much that can be asserted from the above and from a closer reading,
      such a designation represents a completely unjustified discrimination
      against a Society that advocates for the German homeland in a most
      worthwhile way.

      The General Anthroposophical Society, which is represented by groups
      of members in all the civilized nations of the earth (with the
      exception of Soviet Russia), feels particularly obligated to care for
      the German spiritual life and watches with great concern over the
      destiny of its German friends. Therefore, we graciously beseech Your
      Excellency to deign to arrange with the appropriate legal entities the
      abolition of this discriminating designation as "hostile to the state"
      and the cancellation of the dissolution.

      We have the honor, Your Excellency, to express [to you] the assurance
      of our most excellent high regard.

      The Executive Committee (Vorstand)

      Of the General Anthroposophical Society

      /Albert Steffen/

      /Marie Steiner von Sivers/

      /Dr. Guenther Wachsmuth/


      =================================================================

      Dornach, den 17. November 1935

      An den Fuehrer und Reichskanzler

      Herrn Adolf Hitler

      Your Excellency!

      Die unterzeichneten Mitglieder des Vorstandes der Allgemeinen
      Anthroposophen Gesellschaft mit Sitz in Dornach bei Basel (Schweiz)
      sehen sich gezwungen, Ew.Excellenz mit der dringenden Bitte guetige
      Hilfe in folgender Angelegenheit zu bemuehen.

      Wie wir erfahren, ist in diesen Tagen durch eine Verfuegung der
      Geheimen Preussischen Staatspolizei die Anthroposophische Gesellschaft
      im Gebiete des Deutschen Reiches aufgeloest worden. Die hierfuer
      seitens der betreffenden Instanz angegebenen Gruende gehen aus
      beiliegender Abschrift hervor. Wir muessen gegen diesen Aufloesungsakt
      und besonders die dafuer gegebenen Begruendungen Protest einlegen, da
      diese den Tatsachen in keiner Weise entsprechen.

      Die Allgemeine Anthroposophische Gesellschaft, die im Jahre 1923 von
      Dr.Rudolf Steiner konstituiert und begruendet wurde, hat zu irgend
      welchen freimaurerischen, juedischen, pazifistischen Kreisen irgend
      welche Beziehungen oder auch nur Beruehrungspunkte nicht gehabt. Die
      arische Abstammung Rudolf Steiners ist überdies vom Rassepolitischen
      Amt in Berlin ausdrücklich bestaetigt worden. Auch die Bezeichnung der
      Gesellschaft als „international eingestellt" ist in dem in der
      Aufloesungsbegruendung gebrauchten Sinne durchaus inzutreffend, da die
      Beziehungen unter den Mitgliedern der einzelnen Laender sich lediglich
      auf den Gedankenaustausch in wissenschaftlichen und kuenstlerischen
      Fragen beschraenken, wie ihn jede gute wissenschaftliche und
      kuenstlerische Vereinigung in Deutschland und im Ausland pflegt.

      Zahlreiche Persoenlichkeiten aller Kulturlaender werden gern
      bestaetigen, das gerade die Vortragenden und Kuenstler der
      Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft weite Kreise des Auslandes für das
      deutsche Geistesleben interessiert haben, ja dass sogar viele, z.B..
      Englisch sprechende Persoenlichkeliten, um die Quellen im Orginal
      kennen zu lernen, die deutsche Sprache erlernt haben.

      Ausserdem hat die Paedagogik, wie sie an der Waldorfschule und anderen
      Schulen in Deutschland nach den Richtlinien Rudolf Steiners gepflegt
      wird, in vielen ausserdeutschen Laendern groesste Anerkennung gefunden
      und vorbildlich gewirkt. Mit besonderem Interesse verfolgen z.B. wie
      sich erst kuerzlich wiederum auf dem New-Yorker Kongress gezeigt hat,
      grosse amerikanische Lehrer-Verbaende gerade die Entwicklung dieser
      Schulen.

      Durch die oben charakterisierten Massnahmen gegen die
      Anthroposophische Gesellschaft entsteht nun bei weiten, Deutschland
      freundlich gesinnten Kreisen des Auslandes die folgende voellig
      unverstaendliche Situation: dass eine Gesellschaft, die als wertvolle
      und aktive Vertreterin deutschen Geisteslebens angesehen ist,
      ploetzlich in Deutschland selbst aufgeloest wird und zwar mit einer
      Begruendung, die den Tatsachen nicht entspricht.

      Auf das allerentschiedenste muss aber Verwahrung dagegen eingelegt
      werden, dass in dem Schreiben der Geheimen Preussischen Staatspolizei
      aus diesen nicht zutreffenden Motivierungen auch noch die Behauptung
      abgeleitet wird, dass die Anthroposophische Gesellschaft in
      Deutschland "staatsfeindlich" sei. Wie aus dem Obigen und aus naeheren
      Nachpruefungen ohne weiteres hervorgehen wird, stellt eine solche
      Bezeichnung eine voellig ungerechtfertigte Diskriminierung einer in
      wertvollster Weise fuer das Deutschtum eintretenden Gesellschaft dar.

      Die Allgemeine Anthroposophische Gesellschaft, die in allen
      Kulturstaaten der Erde (mit Ausnahme von Sowiet Russland) durch
      Mitgliedergruppen vertreten ist, fuehlt sich dem deutschen
      Geistesleben besonders verpflichtet und schaut deshalb in grosser
      Besorgnis auf das Schicksal ihrer deutschen Freunde. Wir bitten daher
      Ew. Exzcellenz, bei dem zustaendigen Instanzen die Aufhebung der
      diskriminierenden Bezeichnung als „staatsfeindlich" und die
      Rueckgaengigmachung der Aufloesung guetigst veranlassen zu wollen.

      Wir haben die Ehre, Ew. Excellenz die Versicherung unserer
      ausgezeichnetesten Hochachtung auszusprechen.

      Der Vorstand

      der Allgemeinen Anthroposophischen Gesellechaft


      /Albert Steffen/

      /Marie Steiner von Sivers/

      /Dr. Guenther Wachsmuth/

      --- End forwarded message ---
    • Carol
      Tom wrote: I was really struck by the Vorstand s need to distance themselves immediately from any possible connection to Freemasons, Jews and pacifists. And
      Message 2 of 21 , Nov 18, 2007

        Tom wrote:"I was really struck by the Vorstand's need to distance themselves immediately from any possible connection to Freemasons, Jews and pacifists. And then they had to assure "His Excellency" Adolf that Rudolf Steiner's bloodline was purely Aryan."

        Crazy eh, yesturday I was reading about how home grown terrorists are being defined and officially catagorized, in view of facilitating an effective 'clean up' of dissidence in America in the event of an inception of an obvious Fascist Police type government. (Pastors and religious leaders apparently have already begun to receive their 'state of emergency' orientations and newly constructed civil holding facilities appear to be awaiting thier pupose. )

        Is it really distant from our imaginations to picture, in the event that NEW and restrictive societal mesures be implemented, that the Anthro schools, affiliated associations and lone individuals might have to defend their right to exist in somewhat of a similar spirit to what the 1935 letter shows. (Oh gee, we don't encourage, in the least, any discussion over socially unacceptable issues, conspiracies, no no;  we're not racist, we only mix with the strait ones...)

        Gosh that was 1935, you know I bet if we were living those times, we would have felt 'the heat in the air' gathering momentum in the years prior and then at a certain point, 'it' looking down from over our heads.

        Or, like in our time, the 'walls pressing in on us' progressively and air traffic aggravating us more and more.

        Thanks Tom, where's the stuff from Dottie showing? C.

         
         
         
         
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:28 PM
        Subject: [anthroposophy] Fwd: Kissing Up to Adolf

        --- In anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com, "tmasthenes13"
        <TomBuoyed@. ..> wrote:

        Exactly 72 years ago this week, three Vorstand members, Albert
        Steffen, Marie Steiner and Guenther Wachsmuth, signed and sent the
        following letter to Adolf Hitler, begging him to reinstate the
        Anthroposophical Society in Germany which had been recently dissolved
        by the Prussian Gestapo.

        (I include the German text following my translation for anyone to make
        suggestions and/or corrections. )

        It is quite insightful to contrast this "kissing up" letter sent to
        Adolf Hitler as Fuehrer in 1935 with the "kissing off" article written
        by Adolf Hitler as rabble-rouser in 1921 when he vilified Rudolf
        Steiner. (Thank you Dottie for posting that "Adolf on Rudolf" article.)

        I was really struck by the Vorstand's need to distance themselves
        immediately from any possible connection to Freemasons, Jews and
        pacifists. And then they had to assure "His Excellency" Adolf that
        Rudolf Steiner's bloodline was purely Aryan.

        Also catch their parenthetical insult to Mother Russia in the last
        paragraph. (Maybe that's why Bondarev got so pissed off at them!)

        Tom

        ============ ========= ========= ========
        Dornach, November 17, 1935

        To the Fuehrer and Chancellor of the Reich

        Mr. Adolf Hitler

        Your Excellency!

        The undersigned members of the Executive Committee (Vorstand) of the
        General Anthroposophical Society with its seat in Dornach near Basel
        (Switzerland) consider themselves obligated, Your Excellency, to
        trouble you with this urgent appeal for your benevolent assistance in
        the following matter.

        As we know, the Anthroposophical Society has presently been dissolved
        in the territory of the German Reich by an order of the Prussian
        Secret State Police [Gestapo]. The reasons specified for this by the
        official authorities are put forth in the enclosed document. We must
        lodge a protest against this act of dissolution and especially against
        the reasons given, since these reasons do not correspond in any way to
        the facts.

        The General Anthroposophical Society, which was constituted and
        founded in the year 1923 by Dr. Rudolf Steiner, has had no connections
        whatsoever to any Freemasonic, Jewish, or pacifist circles, nor even
        any points of contact with them at all. Moreover, the Aryan line of
        descent of Rudolf Steiner was explicitly confirmed by the Office of
        Racial Politics in Berlin. Also, the designation of the Society as
        "international eingestellt" ["international in scope?"] in the sense
        that is used here as the reason for the dissolution is thoroughly
        appropriate because the relationships among the members of the
        individual countries are restricted only to the exchange of scientific
        ideas and artistic questions, just as every first-rate scientific and
        artistic organization fosters such exchange both in Germany and abroad.

        Numerous personalities from all civilized nations will gladly confirm,
        that the lecturers and artists of the Anthroposophical Society in
        wide-ranging circles abroad are keenly interested in the German
        spiritual life, to the point that even many, e.g.. English speaking
        personalities have learned the German language in order to study the
        original source material.

        Furthermore, the pedagogy, as it is cultivated at the Waldorf School
        and other schools in Germany according to the guidelines of Rudolf
        Steiner, has, in many countries outside Germany, met with the highest
        approval and even acts as a model. For example, as the New York
        Congress has once again indicated, many prominent American teacher
        associations are following the development of these schools with
        particular interest.

        But the result of the above-characterized measures against the
        Anthroposophical Society now occurring in many of these groups in
        foreign countries who are friendly and well disposed toward Germany is
        the following completely incomprehensible situation: that a Society,
        which is regarded as a valuable and active representative of the
        German spiritual life is suddenly dissolved in Germany for reasons
        which do not correspond with the facts.

        But of all the categorizations, a protest must also be made against
        the fact that, in the documentation of the Prussian Gestapo, out of
        misguided motivations, the allegation is also made that the
        Anthroposophical Society is "hostile to the state" in Germany. However
        much that can be asserted from the above and from a closer reading,
        such a designation represents a completely unjustified discrimination
        against a Society that advocates for the German homeland in a most
        worthwhile way.

        The General Anthroposophical Society, which is represented by groups
        of members in all the civilized nations of the earth (with the
        exception of Soviet Russia), feels particularly obligated to care for
        the German spiritual life and watches with great concern over the
        destiny of its German friends. Therefore, we graciously beseech Your
        Excellency to deign to arrange with the appropriate legal entities the
        abolition of this discriminating designation as "hostile to the state"
        and the cancellation of the dissolution.

        We have the honor, Your Excellency, to express [to you] the assurance
        of our most excellent high regard.

        The Executive Committee (Vorstand)

        Of the General Anthroposophical Society

        /Albert Steffen/

        /Marie Steiner von Sivers/

        /Dr. Guenther Wachsmuth/

        ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========

        Dornach, den 17. November 1935

        An den Fuehrer und Reichskanzler

        Herrn Adolf Hitler

        Your Excellency!

        Die unterzeichneten Mitglieder des Vorstandes der Allgemeinen
        Anthroposophen Gesellschaft mit Sitz in Dornach bei Basel (Schweiz)
        sehen sich gezwungen, Ew.Excellenz mit der dringenden Bitte guetige
        Hilfe in folgender Angelegenheit zu bemuehen.

        Wie wir erfahren, ist in diesen Tagen durch eine Verfuegung der
        Geheimen Preussischen Staatspolizei die Anthroposophische Gesellschaft
        im Gebiete des Deutschen Reiches aufgeloest worden. Die hierfuer
        seitens der betreffenden Instanz angegebenen Gruende gehen aus
        beiliegender Abschrift hervor. Wir muessen gegen diesen Aufloesungsakt
        und besonders die dafuer gegebenen Begruendungen Protest einlegen, da
        diese den Tatsachen in keiner Weise entsprechen.

        Die Allgemeine Anthroposophische Gesellschaft, die im Jahre 1923 von
        Dr.Rudolf Steiner konstituiert und begruendet wurde, hat zu irgend
        welchen freimaurerischen, juedischen, pazifistischen Kreisen irgend
        welche Beziehungen oder auch nur Beruehrungspunkte nicht gehabt. Die
        arische Abstammung Rudolf Steiners ist überdies vom Rassepolitischen
        Amt in Berlin ausdrücklich bestaetigt worden. Auch die Bezeichnung der
        Gesellschaft als „international eingestellt" ist in dem in der
        Aufloesungsbegruend ung gebrauchten Sinne durchaus inzutreffend, da die
        Beziehungen unter den Mitgliedern der einzelnen Laender sich lediglich
        auf den Gedankenaustausch in wissenschaftlichen und kuenstlerischen
        Fragen beschraenken, wie ihn jede gute wissenschaftliche und
        kuenstlerische Vereinigung in Deutschland und im Ausland pflegt.

        Zahlreiche Persoenlichkeiten aller Kulturlaender werden gern
        bestaetigen, das gerade die Vortragenden und Kuenstler der
        Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft weite Kreise des Auslandes für das
        deutsche Geistesleben interessiert haben, ja dass sogar viele, z.B..
        Englisch sprechende Persoenlichkeliten, um die Quellen im Orginal
        kennen zu lernen, die deutsche Sprache erlernt haben.

        Ausserdem hat die Paedagogik, wie sie an der Waldorfschule und anderen
        Schulen in Deutschland nach den Richtlinien Rudolf Steiners gepflegt
        wird, in vielen ausserdeutschen Laendern groesste Anerkennung gefunden
        und vorbildlich gewirkt. Mit besonderem Interesse verfolgen z.B. wie
        sich erst kuerzlich wiederum auf dem New-Yorker Kongress gezeigt hat,
        grosse amerikanische Lehrer-Verbaende gerade die Entwicklung dieser
        Schulen.

        Durch die oben charakterisierten Massnahmen gegen die
        Anthroposophische Gesellschaft entsteht nun bei weiten, Deutschland
        freundlich gesinnten Kreisen des Auslandes die folgende voellig
        unverstaendliche Situation: dass eine Gesellschaft, die als wertvolle
        und aktive Vertreterin deutschen Geisteslebens angesehen ist,
        ploetzlich in Deutschland selbst aufgeloest wird und zwar mit einer
        Begruendung, die den Tatsachen nicht entspricht.

        Auf das allerentschiedenste muss aber Verwahrung dagegen eingelegt
        werden, dass in dem Schreiben der Geheimen Preussischen Staatspolizei
        aus diesen nicht zutreffenden Motivierungen auch noch die Behauptung
        abgeleitet wird, dass die Anthroposophische Gesellschaft in
        Deutschland "staatsfeindlich" sei. Wie aus dem Obigen und aus naeheren
        Nachpruefungen ohne weiteres hervorgehen wird, stellt eine solche
        Bezeichnung eine voellig ungerechtfertigte Diskriminierung einer in
        wertvollster Weise fuer das Deutschtum eintretenden Gesellschaft dar.

        Die Allgemeine Anthroposophische Gesellschaft, die in allen
        Kulturstaaten der Erde (mit Ausnahme von Sowiet Russland) durch
        Mitgliedergruppen vertreten ist, fuehlt sich dem deutschen
        Geistesleben besonders verpflichtet und schaut deshalb in grosser
        Besorgnis auf das Schicksal ihrer deutschen Freunde. Wir bitten daher
        Ew. Exzcellenz, bei dem zustaendigen Instanzen die Aufhebung der
        diskriminierenden Bezeichnung als „staatsfeindlich" und die
        Rueckgaengigmachung der Aufloesung guetigst veranlassen zu wollen.

        Wir haben die Ehre, Ew. Excellenz die Versicherung unserer
        ausgezeichnetesten Hochachtung auszusprechen.

        Der Vorstand

        der Allgemeinen Anthroposophischen Gesellechaft

        /Albert Steffen/

        /Marie Steiner von Sivers/

        /Dr. Guenther Wachsmuth/

        --- End forwarded message ---

      • Stephen Hale
        ... dissolved ... And it was exactly 90 years ago that Steiner was talking about wrong and right uses of esoteric knowledge in the three lectures on secret
        Message 3 of 21 , Nov 19, 2007
          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "tmasthenes13" <TomBuoyed@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "tmasthenes13"
          > <TomBuoyed@> wrote:
          >
          > Exactly 72 years ago this week, three Vorstand members, Albert
          > Steffen, Marie Steiner and Guenther Wachsmuth, signed and sent the
          > following letter to Adolf Hitler, begging him to reinstate the
          > Anthroposophical Society in Germany which had been recently
          dissolved
          > by the Prussian Gestapo.

          And it was exactly 90 years ago that Steiner was talking
          about "wrong and right uses of esoteric knowledge" in the three
          lectures on secret brotherhoods and their aims for world control.
          It was also right at this time that Steiner was lecturing on
          the 'Fall of the Spirits of Darkness', and "Behind the Scenes of
          External Happenings", wherein he discusses one of the more grotesque
          and highly sinister aims of the occultists; that of using assassins
          to inflict sudden and violent deaths among those of the royal
          bloodline of the Hapsburgs in order to force spiritual knowledge
          down from the Angelic hierarchy. Specially trained mediums were
          used for this practice in the same manner as those used to
          communicate with the dead, who were still in the etheric world. The
          difference is that the victim of a violent and unexpected death,
          such as the Empress of Austria, who was stabbed in the heart while
          walking around Lake Geneva in early September of 1898, is thrust
          immediately across the threshold for the purpose of being
          administered to by the angels. But the condition causing the death
          can have the effect of driving spiritual truths down to earth,
          putting it in the hands of the occultists. And so, this method was
          used for a time, after the defeat of the so-called "spiriualism"
          movement by 1879. By the way, Blavatsky's threat of revealing the
          aims of the occultists in this effort of deceit was what got it
          terminated and replaced by other efforts, such as committing violent
          deaths, as well as the more well-known one that made Helena
          Blavatsky famous; the one of communicating with the Indian Mahatma
          Kut Humi, and the writing of books such as "The Secret Doctrine",
          and "Isis Unveiled".

          I say the above only as a preface to the fact that by the turn of
          the 20th century these practices of the occultists were in effect,
          albeit in a diminishing way relative to spiritualism. Then someone
          walked onto the scene who had more to offer than all the mediums put
          together; who had the power to draw down spiritual truths from the
          devachanic and astral worlds of a caliber that immediately made the
          conducting of violent deaths obsolete. This one who happened on the
          scene in the year 1900 was Rudolf Steiner, and being the emissary of
          Archangel Michael, he had the power to conduct Michael's mission on
          earth; the mission of disseminating the cosmic intelligence in an
          entirely proper and righteous manner. Thus, initially he
          represented a threat to the occultists in the same way that
          Blavatsky posed a threat back when the Theosophical Society was
          first formed between 1875 and 1879. In her case, her defiance got
          her placed in a kind of 'occult prison' for a time, in order to gag
          her from revealing the real aims of the occultists. But only until
          they could reformat their aims along the lines of a more Indic train
          of development for theosophy. Thus, her sensitive mediumship was
          able to reveal more of her true power of clairvoyant perception, but
          still giving in to the ncessary twists and compromises of truths
          demanded by the occultists.

          With Rudolf Steiner, the compromise took a different form. After
          having started to demonstrate his own clearly occult powers, and the
          keen desire to offer a true and safe path to spiritual knowledge,
          one capable of being comprehended by any healthy and intelligent
          human being, wherein no truth capable of being safely received would
          be avoided, he clearly showed the same courage for non-compromise
          that Blavatsky had previously shown to the occultists.

          So, a meeting was held by the occultists similar to the one held and
          described by Rudolf Steiner in his lecture course, "The Occult
          Movement in the Nineteenth Century", wherein the real aims of the
          occultists relative to the "spiritualism movement" were laid out.
          This time, though, it was a matter of how to control the
          dissemination of real spiritual knowledge coming from one who had a
          faculty of clairvoyance never seen on earth before. One seeking
          only to freely give what he had to offer with no restrictions on it,
          other than to avoid giving out what was not yet ready to be safely
          revealed. Therefore, a compromise was sought by the occultists.

          And what is so significant about this falltime letter to Hitler, it
          seems to me, is its utter sincerity. For behind its content of
          appeal for reinstatement of the Anthroposophical Society in Germany
          is the substance of the compromise struck by the occultists back at
          the turn of the century; a real paradox indeed.

          Steve
        • Stephen Hale
          ... wrote: And what is so significant about this falltime letter to Hitler, it seems to me, is its utter sincerity. For behind its content of appeal for
          Message 4 of 21 , Nov 19, 2007
            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
            wrote:

            "And what is so significant about this falltime letter to Hitler, it
            seems to me, is its utter sincerity. For behind its content of
            appeal for reinstatement of the Anthroposophical Society in Germany
            is the substance of the compromise struck by the occultists back at
            the turn of the century; a real paradox indeed."

            So, what this letter clearly indicates is one of appeasement for
            Hitler. And even Rudolf Steiner himself saw it coming back in June of
            1923, when he gave those very important lectures on "The
            Anthroposophical Movement", at the midpoint of the year that began with
            the burning down of the wooden archetype for the Spirit.

            Let's not forget that Rudolf Steiner willed to remain on earth in order
            to conduct the Christmas Conference of 1923. He was supposed to die
            that night by decree of the occultists who had decided that the
            compromise of 1901 had been completed, and now it was their turn to
            take control of matters relative to the spirit. But Steiner refused to
            give in to the compromise. Instead, through a mighty act of will he
            fought to remain incarnated on earth. And he won.

            He won in order to conduct a very unique Christmas Conference in which,
            after much deliberation conducted over the course of a year that began
            with such a tragedy, he decided to found something entirely new. So,
            when this letter of appeasment to Hitler talks of a founding of a
            General Anthroposophical Society in 1923, it is stating something that
            is not true; for the Anthroposophical Society had already been founded
            in 1913. But the goal was to appease Hitler, so these words were
            said. Also, the words confirming that Steiner was of pure aryan blood,
            and that the GAS had nothing to do with freemasons, jews, or russians.

            The fact is that Rudolf Steiner decided to found something really new;
            an International Society of the Univerally Human Spirit. But, try
            telling that to Hitler! I just don't think they thought that he would
            understand that concept. So, it was tempered down to the idea of the
            founding of the GAS, instead.
          • Stephen Hale
            ... wrote: He was supposed to die that night by decree of the occultists who had decided that the compromise of 1901 had been completed, and
            Message 5 of 21 , Nov 19, 2007
              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
              <sardisian01@...> wrote:

              "He was supposed to die that night by decree of the occultists who
              had decided that the compromise of 1901 had been completed, and now
              it was their turn to take control of matters relative to the spirit."

              So yes, what was the substance of this compromise. Please remember,
              here was someone who was not going to compromise when it came to
              truth and knowledge; no way.

              It must be in volume IV of KR, because I couldn't find it in volume
              III, that Steiner reveals his most important karmic secret. And
              this concerns Weimar 1890, when Steiner went to work on the Goethe
              archives; remember? Here is where he reveals the very important
              fact that PoF was written on the etheric plane under the guidance of
              Michael. So, herein the relationship was first formed that actually
              can be found throughout Rudolf Steiner's carefully wrought
              autobiography.

              Steiner begins his autobiography, which was asked for at the end of
              1923 and published serially in "Das Goetheanum" in 35 installments,
              by remembering a very key experience. He remembers that he was born
              out of his normal place and time. In other words, after describing
              his parents and where they were born, and where he was subsequently
              born, he exclaims: "and so it was that I came to be born in a place
              and time opposite to where I was supposed to be born". And this
              statement has quite a bit of relevance for the understanding. It
              helps to explain why he would break his cups and saucers after
              eating and drinking out of them; until his mother knew to grab them
              up.

              It also helps to explain why he couldn't distinquish three-
              dimensional objects even into adulthood; and this is one very
              important reason why he took up drinking in college. After living a
              very lonely life among those of other ethnic origins while growing
              up, thus securing his innocence from luciferic and ahrimanic
              influences, he found out early, after reaching 18 years of age, that
              everybody he was now closely associated with had these objects very
              well defined, while he didn't. And he wanted very much, at the
              time, to conform to their expectations. He so much wanted to fit
              in. And so he hoped that drinking would have the effect of killing
              the natural clairvoyance he was brought up with.

              Then he met the fellow on the train into Vienna. Does anyone know
              who I'm talking about and his importance for Rudolf Steiner?
            • tmasthenes13
              ... ======================================== The herb gatherer, Felix Kosugi, who becomes Felix Balde in the Mystery Plays. Do keep up this thread, Stephen. I
              Message 6 of 21 , Nov 19, 2007
                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                > <sardisian01@> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Then he met the fellow on the train into Vienna. Does anyone know
                > who I'm talking about and his importance for Rudolf Steiner?
                >
                ========================================

                The herb gatherer, Felix Kosugi, who becomes Felix Balde in the
                Mystery Plays.

                Do keep up this thread, Stephen. I knew it was important that I make
                that translation, and your response is bearing out that feeling. I'm
                heartened by the calm and measured thought you're bringing to it, a
                far cry from the fear and loathing responses on AT.

                Tom
              • Stephen Hale
                ... know ... Felix Kogutski was a man who seemed to live in an earlier time; a time in which the knowing truths of the folk-soul of his heritage remained
                Message 7 of 21 , Nov 20, 2007
                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "tmasthenes13" <TomBuoyed@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                  > > <sardisian01@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Then he met the fellow on the train into Vienna. Does anyone
                  know
                  > > who I'm talking about and his importance for Rudolf Steiner?
                  > >
                  > ========================================
                  >
                  > The herb gatherer, Felix Kosugi, who becomes Felix Balde in the
                  > Mystery Plays.

                  Felix Kogutski was a man who seemed to live in an earlier time; a
                  time in which the knowing truths of the folk-soul of his heritage
                  remained resident in perception throughout the life experience. Born
                  in 1833 he grew up with a deep feeling for nature and her elementary
                  secrets that never subsided as he reached adulthood. His simple
                  manner and naïve demeanor masked a profound inner knowledge that
                  served his profession of gathering herbs having medicinal value and
                  selling them to the various apothecaries in Vienna. Rudolf Steiner
                  realized immediately that here was someone who could understand his
                  view of the world.

                  In their sustained conversations and meetings it soon became
                  apparent that this man, Felix the herb gatherer, beheld a vast
                  experiential reservoir of esoteric wisdom that circulated around the
                  knowledge of the elementary spirits found resident in the kingdoms
                  of nature; the beings behind the fairy-tales handed down from
                  generation to generation. This simple man, seeming to exist entirely
                  outside the contemporary culture of late nineteenth century Vienna,
                  would prove to be an instrumental influence for Rudolf's developing
                  conception of the world and the knowledge attainable therein.

                  Steve

                  ps- I have always found it very interesting that Felix was born the
                  year after Goethe died.
                • Stephen Hale
                  ... Yes, I read some of them, until I started to feel ill. I am so glad that I got booted off that place where vindictiveness and pettiness rule supreme, and
                  Message 8 of 21 , Nov 21, 2007
                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "tmasthenes13" <TomBuoyed@...>
                    wrote:
                    > Do keep up this thread, Stephen. I knew it was important that I make
                    > that translation, and your response is bearing out that feeling. I'm
                    > heartened by the calm and measured thought you're bringing to it, a
                    > far cry from the fear and loathing responses on AT.
                    >
                    > Tom

                    Yes, I read some of them, until I started to feel ill. I am so glad
                    that I got booted off that place where vindictiveness and pettiness
                    rule supreme, and the conversations keep repeating themselves.

                    So, yes, I will continue this thread in a little while because the
                    subject of the compromise of 1901 hasn't really been dealt with, and it
                    represents the key factor then as well as now. But also, I have some
                    material concerning a certain prescience on the part of Rudolf Steiner
                    concerning 1935, coming twelve years beforehand. And it is quite eye-
                    opening. Also, it seems that Mr. Prokofieff was given more than a
                    little indication of what occurred between 1925 and 1935, such as to
                    make him feel that he himself had taken on at least part of the karma
                    of Rudolf Steiner. And this is worth getting into a bit as well.

                    I dealt with much of this stuff on A_T over the course of a couple of
                    years, talking just as I do now, and it is largely forgotten. The only
                    things remembered now are the petty resentments that fill those
                    unforgiving minds.

                    Steve
                  • holderlin66
                    An interview with one of Germany s most notorious neo-Nazis has landed Vanity Fair magazine in a heap of trouble. Arno Lustiger, a Jewish historian and
                    Message 9 of 21 , Nov 24, 2007

                      "An interview with one of Germany's most notorious neo-Nazis has landed Vanity Fair magazine in a heap of trouble.

                      Arno Lustiger, a Jewish historian and Holocaust survivor, has started proceedings to sue the magazine's German edition for publishing an interview with Horst Mahler, the former left-wing extremist who transformed into one of Germany's most rabid neo-Nazi public figures. The interview appeared in the Nov. 1 print and online editions.

                      Filed Nov. 7 and released to the public on Nov. 21, the suit notes that Mahler denied and belittled the Holocaust, which is illegal in Germany.

                      Attorney Uwe Lehmann-Brauns told the JTA on Nov. 21 that he was awaiting confirmation from Berlin's state prosecutor that the suit had been formally entered. Vanity Fair as yet has offered no response.

                      In the interview, conducted by journalist and former vice president of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, Michel Friedman, Mahler said that "Hitler was the liberator of the German people. He is demonized as the liberator of Satan."

                      The publisher had said he ran the interview to make Germans aware of the poisonous ideas in their midst, but Lustiger's attorneys said the motivation was immaterial."

                      Bradford comments;

                      In bringing attention to many different offshoots of taboos and the complexity of human nature, neither Steiner nor Anthroposophy, when wishing to highlight intense complex issues, intense atrocities for Oil or for the hovering star trek Borg Imagination over Israel, that argument that we share at being repulsed by atrocities and yet having to look at power and powers complex Ahrimanic roots and opening any discussion at all, reveals a whimpering and wounded sense of human freedom and human idiocy, and certainly Anthros are considered crazed loons but Anthros consider copy cat school murders and the entire White House currently crazed loons and any of their policies and anything that comes out of their pie holes is riddled with Ahrimanic lies and deceptions.  But discussing the False Flag and ugly ties to MI6 and Mossad and all the complex denials to investigate the actual 9/11 immediate pancaking and demolition of three buildings with immense loss of life and that such demolition had to be pre-set and coordinated and no fire has yet to ever bring down a skyscraper....any type of discussion from high tech micro and nano weaponry being developed to literally aim and boil the blood of protestors, is well beyond tasers..... any discussion of techno manipulation into environment, all these issues can be raised and discussed but the pathways of thinking that current Athros seem to thrive on, wish to hide in the bushes like the Good Germans did.

                      A free line of communication and warmed human and cosmic human common sense should remain an open channel.... It is up to the human I to determine, disagree, avoid, delete or flee from such discussion, not that any discussion is outlawed because it might catch a glimpse of some hidden machination which the mind doesn't want to deal with.

                      http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=322258

                      "American commanders in Iraq are urging Pentagon chiefs to authorise the deployment of newly-developed heat wave guns to disperse angry crowds or violent rioters.

                      But the plea for what senior army officers believe could prove a valuable alternative to traditional firepower in dangerous trouble-spots has so far gone unanswered.

                      The ADS can target crowds from 750 metres away

                      Washington fears a barrage of adverse publicity in the suspicious Muslim world and is concerned that critics will claim the invisible beam weapons were being used for torture.

                      Now the US military directorate charged with developing non-lethal weapons, which has invested more than a decade developing the Active Denial System (ADS), has launched a concerted effort to convince both the public and its own bosses at the defence department of the device's merits.

                      "With brand new technology like this, perception is everything," said Col Kirk Hymes, a former Marine artillery officer who heads the directorate.

                      He added that tests were almost complete and the first ADS, also known as the Silent Guardian, could be deployed early next year if the Pentagon allows. The decision is so sensitive that it is expected to be made personally by the defence secretary, Robert Gates, who sent senior representatives to the demonstrations.

                      Raytheon, the company contracted to manufacture the prototype, has also received interest from several undisclosed European countries. The machine displayed last week cost about $10 million to build, but the directorate believes that the ADS can be put into production for $2-$5 million (£1-2.5 million) per device.

                      Col Hymes told observers at a demonstration that the system was a safe and effective alternative to plastic bullets, which can cause injury and sometimes death and are effective only up to 75 metres.

                      The heatwave weapon can, by contrast, target troublemakers from 750 metres. It works by dispatching high-powered radio waves from a vehicle antenna, similar to a satellite television dish, causing the molecules in a target's skin to vibrate violently, creating a burning sensation.

                      'Lady Taser' that can stop a man in his tracks
                      Last charge for the bayonet - a victim of modern warfare
                      How About That: More bizarre news stories from around the world
                      "We are pretty good at shouting and intimidating people and we have been perfecting the art of lethal warfare since Cain and Abel," he said. "But in places like Iraq we are re-learning that we need a response in the spectrum between shouting and shooting. The ADS provides this."

                      But he added: "This is not something we want to roll out and deploy and surprise people. We know we need to educate the public."

                      In fact the development of the weapon only became public after the Sunshine Project - a Texas-based group that campaigns against biological and chemical weapons - pushed for disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act.


                      In pictures: The Telegraph's Philip Sherwell is zapped by a heat wave gun

                      The group's director, Edward Hammond, said: "If we are not prepared to use it as a crowd control technique on our own citizens, then we really shouldn't be using it in Iraq either."

                      Marc Garlasco, a former Pentagon intelligence officer who is senior military analyst for the Human Rights Watch campaign group, was among those invited to feel the device's impact at a recent demonstration.

                      He said: "If I had the option of being shot by a bullet or this, I would choose this - but still not enough is known about it. This is novel technology. We're talking about bringing science fiction into reality and it's critical to have open discussion."

                      He added: "People understand what happens when you get shot with a gun, but with the "pain-ray" there's still uncertainty. When it's used, the military is going to have to deal with a public backlash because I'm sure there will be claims of medical problems by the people it's been used upon, real or not."

                      "We are talking about young soldiers having this in their hands. If we upset the civilian population in Iraq, whether by killing, by torture or by misusing this, it will have a strategic effect on the US's ability to execute effective operations."

                      Col Hymes said that all ADS operators were given a six-week training course that covered sophisticated crowd control techniques as well as handling the technology."

                    • carol
                      When one transposes the contrast in imagery to the present situation; placing the claims expressed by the grouping of individuals ex. Cheney and co. the US and
                      Message 10 of 21 , Nov 24, 2007

                        When one transposes the contrast in imagery to the present situation;  placing the claims expressed by the grouping of individuals ex. Cheney and co. the US and Allie armies plus the Big Wigs of the banking cartel, in the place of 'Hitler', against the expressed views coming from the masses of 'dissidents', the similarity is stunning

                        "Hitler was the liberator of the German people. He is demonized as the liberator of Satan."

                        PS. The rhetorec behind the 'accepted' environmentalist movement well serves the purpose of the necessary (but  illusory)  liberation purported by the ruling powers, as well.

                        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66" <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > "An interview with one of Germany's most notorious neo-Nazis has landed
                        > Vanity Fair magazine in a heap of trouble.
                        >
                        > Arno Lustiger, a Jewish historian and Holocaust survivor, has started
                        > proceedings to sue the magazine's German edition for publishing
                        > <http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FSho\
                        > wFull&cid=1195546701089#> an interview with Horst Mahler, the former
                        > left-wing extremist who transformed into one of Germany's most rabid
                        > neo-Nazi public figures. The interview appeared in the Nov. 1 print and
                        > online editions.
                        > Filed Nov. 7 and released to the public on Nov. 21, the suit notes that
                        > Mahler denied and belittled the Holocaust, which is illegal in Germany.
                        > Attorney Uwe Lehmann-Brauns told the JTA on Nov. 21 that he was awaiting
                        > confirmation from Berlin's state prosecutor that the suit had been
                        > formally entered. Vanity Fair as yet has offered no response.
                        > In the interview, conducted by journalist and former vice president of
                        > the Central Council of Jews in Germany, Michel Friedman, Mahler said
                        > that "Hitler was the liberator of the German people. He is demonized as
                        > the liberator of Satan."
                        > The publisher had said he ran the interview to make Germans aware of the
                        > poisonous ideas in their midst, but Lustiger's attorneys said the
                        > motivation was immaterial."
                        >
                        > Bradford comments;
                        >
                        > In bringing attention to many different offshoots of taboos and the
                        > complexity of human nature, neither Steiner nor Anthroposophy, when
                        > wishing to highlight intense complex issues, intense atrocities for Oil
                        > or for the hovering star trek Borg Imagination over Israel, that
                        > argument that we share at being repulsed by atrocities and yet having to
                        > look at power and powers complex Ahrimanic roots and opening any
                        > discussion at all, reveals a whimpering and wounded sense of human
                        > freedom and human idiocy, and certainly Anthros are considered crazed
                        > loons but Anthros consider copy cat school murders and the entire White
                        > House currently crazed loons and any of their policies and anything that
                        > comes out of their pie holes is riddled with Ahrimanic lies and
                        > deceptions. But discussing the False Flag and ugly ties to MI6 and
                        > Mossad and all the complex denials to investigate the actual 9/11
                        > immediate pancaking and demolition of three buildings with immense loss
                        > of life and that such demolition had to be pre-set and coordinated and
                        > no fire has yet to ever bring down a skyscraper....any type of
                        > discussion from high tech micro and nano weaponry being developed to
                        > literally aim and boil the blood of protestors, is well beyond
                        > tasers..... any discussion of techno manipulation into environment, all
                        > these issues can be raised and discussed but the pathways of thinking
                        > that current Athros seem to thrive on, wish to hide in the bushes like
                        > the Good Germans did.
                        >
                        > A free line of communication and warmed human and cosmic human common
                        > sense should remain an open channel.... It is up to the human I to
                        > determine, disagree, avoid, delete or flee from such discussion, not
                        > that any discussion is outlawed because it might catch a glimpse of some
                        > hidden machination which the mind doesn't want to deal with.
                        >
                        > http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&f\
                        > orum=103&topic_id=322258
                        > <http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&\
                        > forum=103&topic_id=322258>
                        >
                        > "American commanders in Iraq are urging Pentagon chiefs to authorise the
                        > deployment of newly-developed heat wave guns to disperse angry crowds or
                        > violent rioters.
                        >
                        > But the plea for what senior army officers believe could prove a
                        > valuable alternative to traditional firepower in dangerous trouble-spots
                        > has so far gone unanswered.
                        >
                        > The ADS can target crowds from 750 metres away
                        >
                        > Washington fears a barrage of adverse publicity in the suspicious Muslim
                        > world and is concerned that critics will claim the invisible beam
                        > weapons were being used for torture.
                        >
                        > Now the US military directorate charged with developing non-lethal
                        > weapons, which has invested more than a decade developing the Active
                        > Denial System (ADS), has launched a concerted effort to convince both
                        > the public and its own bosses at the defence department of the device's
                        > merits.
                        >
                        > "With brand new technology like this, perception is everything," said
                        > Col Kirk Hymes, a former Marine artillery officer who heads the
                        > directorate.
                        >
                        > He added that tests were almost complete and the first ADS, also known
                        > as the Silent Guardian, could be deployed early next year if the
                        > Pentagon allows. The decision is so sensitive that it is expected to be
                        > made personally by the defence secretary, Robert Gates, who sent senior
                        > representatives to the demonstrations.
                        >
                        > Raytheon, the company contracted to manufacture the prototype, has also
                        > received interest from several undisclosed European countries. The
                        > machine displayed last week cost about $10 million to build, but the
                        > directorate believes that the ADS can be put into production for $2-$5
                        > million (£1-2.5 million) per device.
                        >
                        > Col Hymes told observers at a demonstration that the system was a safe
                        > and effective alternative to plastic bullets, which can cause injury and
                        > sometimes death and are effective only up to 75 metres.
                        >
                        > The heatwave weapon can, by contrast, target troublemakers from 750
                        > metres. It works by dispatching high-powered radio waves from a vehicle
                        > antenna, similar to a satellite television dish, causing the molecules
                        > in a target's skin to vibrate violently, creating a burning sensation.
                        >
                        > 'Lady Taser' that can stop a man in his tracks
                        > Last charge for the bayonet - a victim of modern warfare
                        > How About That: More bizarre news stories from around the world
                        > "We are pretty good at shouting and intimidating people and we have been
                        > perfecting the art of lethal warfare since Cain and Abel," he said. "But
                        > in places like Iraq we are re-learning that we need a response in the
                        > spectrum between shouting and shooting. The ADS provides this."
                        >
                        > But he added: "This is not something we want to roll out and deploy and
                        > surprise people. We know we need to educate the public."
                        >
                        > In fact the development of the weapon only became public after the
                        > Sunshine Project - a Texas-based group that campaigns against biological
                        > and chemical weapons - pushed for disclosure under the Freedom of
                        > Information Act.
                        >
                        >
                        > In pictures: The Telegraph's Philip Sherwell is zapped by a heat wave
                        > gun
                        >
                        > The group's director, Edward Hammond, said: "If we are not prepared to
                        > use it as a crowd control technique on our own citizens, then we really
                        > shouldn't be using it in Iraq either."
                        >
                        > Marc Garlasco, a former Pentagon intelligence officer who is senior
                        > military analyst for the Human Rights Watch campaign group, was among
                        > those invited to feel the device's impact at a recent demonstration.
                        >
                        > He said: "If I had the option of being shot by a bullet or this, I would
                        > choose this - but still not enough is known about it. This is novel
                        > technology. We're talking about bringing science fiction into reality
                        > and it's critical to have open discussion."
                        >
                        > He added: "People understand what happens when you get shot with a gun,
                        > but with the "pain-ray" there's still uncertainty. When it's used, the
                        > military is going to have to deal with a public backlash because I'm
                        > sure there will be claims of medical problems by the people it's been
                        > used upon, real or not."
                        >
                        > "We are talking about young soldiers having this in their hands. If we
                        > upset the civilian population in Iraq, whether by killing, by torture or
                        > by misusing this, it will have a strategic effect on the US's ability to
                        > execute effective operations."
                        >
                        > Col Hymes said that all ADS operators were given a six-week training
                        > course that covered sophisticated crowd control techniques as well as
                        > handling the technology."
                        >

                      • holderlin66
                        Holocaust Denial, American Style By Mark Weisbrot AterNet.org Wednesday 21 November 2007 Institutionally unwilling to consider America s responsibility for the
                        Message 11 of 21 , Nov 24, 2007
                          Holocaust Denial, American Style
                          By Mark Weisbrot
                          AterNet.org

                          Wednesday 21 November 2007

                          Institutionally unwilling to consider America's responsibility for
                          the bloodbath, the traditional media have refused to acknowledge the
                          massive number of Iraqis killed since the invasion.
                          Iranian President Ahmedinejad's flirtation with those who deny
                          the reality of the Nazi genocide has rightly been met with disgust.
                          But another holocaust denial is taking place with little notice: the
                          holocaust in Iraq. The average American believes that 10,000 Iraqi
                          civilians have been killed since the US invasion in March 2003. The
                          most commonly cited figure in the media is 70,000. But the actual
                          number of people who have been killed is most likely more than one
                          million.

                          This is five times more than the estimates of killings in Darfur
                          and even more than the genocide in Rwanda 13 years ago.

                          The estimate of more than one million violent deaths in Iraq was
                          confirmed again two months ago in a poll by the British polling firm
                          Opinion Research Business, which estimated 1,220,580 violent deaths
                          since the US invasion. This is consistent with the study conducted
                          by doctors and scientists from the Johns Hopkins University School
                          of Public Health more than a year ago. Their study was published in
                          the Lancet, Britain's leading medical journal. It estimated 601,000
                          people killed due to violence as of July 2006; but if updated on the
                          basis of deaths since the study, this estimate would also be more
                          than a million. These estimates do not include those who have died
                          because of public health problems created by the war, including
                          breakdowns in sewerage systems and electricity, shortages of
                          medicines, etc.

                          Amazingly, some journalists and editors - and of course some
                          politicians - dismiss such measurements because they are based on
                          random sampling of the population rather than a complete count of
                          the dead. While it would be wrong to blame anyone for their lack of
                          education, this disregard for scientific methods and results is
                          inexcusable. As one observer succinctly put it: if you don't believe
                          in random sampling, the next time your doctor orders a blood test,
                          tell him that he needs to take all of it.

                          The methods used in the estimates of Iraqi deaths are the same
                          as those used to estimate the deaths in Darfur, which are widely
                          accepted in the media. They are also consistent with the large
                          numbers of refugees from the violence (estimated at more than four
                          million). There is no reason to disbelieve them, or to accept
                          tallies such as that the Iraq Body Count (73,305 - 84,222), which
                          include only a small proportion of those killed, as an estimate of
                          the overall death toll.

                          Of course, acknowledging the holocaust in Iraq might change the
                          debate over the war. While Iraqi lives do not count for much in US
                          politics, recognizing that a mass slaughter of this magnitude is
                          taking place could lead to more questions about how this horrible
                          situation came to be. Right now a convenient myth dominates the
                          discussion: the fall of Saddam Hussein simply unleashed a civil war
                          that was waiting to happen, and the violence is all due to Iraqis'
                          inherent hatred of each other.

                          In fact, there is considerable evidence that the occupation
                          itself - including the strategy of the occupying forces - has played
                          a large role in escalating the violence to holocaust proportions. It
                          is in the nature of such an occupation, where the vast majority of
                          the people are opposed to the occupation and according to polls
                          believe it is right to try and kill the occupiers, to pit one ethnic
                          group against another. This was clear when Shiite troops were sent
                          into Sunni Fallujah in 2004; it is obvious in the nature of the
                          death-squad government, where officials from the highest levels of
                          the Interior Ministry to the lowest ranking police officers - all
                          trained and supported by the US military - have carried out a
                          violent, sectarian mission of "ethnic cleansing." (The largest
                          proportion of the killings in Iraq are from gunfire and executions,
                          not from car bombs). It has become even more obvious in recent
                          months as the United States is now arming both sides of the civil
                          war, including Sunni militias in Anbar province as well as the
                          Shiite government militias.

                          Is Washington responsible for a holocaust in Iraq? That is the
                          question that almost everyone here wants to avoid. So the holocaust
                          is denied.
                        • Stephen Hale
                          ... for Oil ... having to ... crazed ... White ... anything that ... loss ... and ... to ... environment, all ... thinking ... like ... You re an American in
                          Message 12 of 21 , Nov 25, 2007
                            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                            <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                            > Bradford comments;
                            >
                            > In bringing attention to many different offshoots of taboos and the
                            > complexity of human nature, neither Steiner nor Anthroposophy, when
                            > wishing to highlight intense complex issues, intense atrocities
                            for Oil
                            > or for the hovering star trek Borg Imagination over Israel, that
                            > argument that we share at being repulsed by atrocities and yet
                            having to
                            > look at power and powers complex Ahrimanic roots and opening any
                            > discussion at all, reveals a whimpering and wounded sense of human
                            > freedom and human idiocy, and certainly Anthros are considered
                            crazed
                            > loons but Anthros consider copy cat school murders and the entire
                            White
                            > House currently crazed loons and any of their policies and
                            anything that
                            > comes out of their pie holes is riddled with Ahrimanic lies and
                            > deceptions. But discussing the False Flag and ugly ties to MI6 and
                            > Mossad and all the complex denials to investigate the actual 9/11
                            > immediate pancaking and demolition of three buildings with immense
                            loss
                            > of life and that such demolition had to be pre-set and coordinated
                            and
                            > no fire has yet to ever bring down a skyscraper....any type of
                            > discussion from high tech micro and nano weaponry being developed
                            to
                            > literally aim and boil the blood of protestors, is well beyond
                            > tasers..... any discussion of techno manipulation into
                            environment, all
                            > these issues can be raised and discussed but the pathways of
                            thinking
                            > that current Athros seem to thrive on, wish to hide in the bushes
                            like
                            > the Good Germans did.

                            You're an American in this incarnation, Bradford; try living with
                            it. Try bringing forward the great gift you received when you went
                            to Dornach back when the Vietnam war was raging. This was a gift of
                            extreme proportions, while certain of us lowly folk were fighting
                            for the honor of the flag and the eagle symbol. Just think of the
                            extraordinary opportunity that you were given to bring back to
                            America what you were proffered by those english-language people
                            knowing the german language. I think you mentioned the one who had
                            inducted your red carpet ride once. Well, you owe her alot.

                            And so do we. And so it goes.
                          • Stephen Hale
                            ... it ... Steiner ... For those interested, please read the seventh lecture of Steiner s lecture course: The Anthroposophic Movement, which I have posted into
                            Message 13 of 21 , Nov 25, 2007
                              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                              wrote:

                              > So, yes, I will continue this thread in a little while because the
                              > subject of the compromise of 1901 hasn't really been dealt with, and
                              it
                              > represents the key factor then as well as now. But also, I have some
                              > material concerning a certain prescience on the part of Rudolf
                              Steiner
                              > concerning 1935, coming twelve years beforehand. And it is quite eye-
                              > opening. Also, it seems that Mr. Prokofieff was given more than a
                              > little indication of what occurred between 1925 and 1935, such as to
                              > make him feel that he himself had taken on at least part of the karma
                              > of Rudolf Steiner. And this is worth getting into a bit as well.

                              For those interested, please read the seventh lecture of Steiner's
                              lecture course: The Anthroposophic Movement, which I have posted into
                              the files section under the title: "The Consolidation of the
                              Anthroposophical Movement". It describes how the outer opposition
                              toward the movement from its origination, took on an inner character at
                              the time of the outbreak of WWI, and how it would have been possible
                              for everything Steiner had said up til 1914 to have sufficed for the
                              duration of the 20th century if it had not been for the war.

                              It was due to the onset of the war, and its prescience, that Steiner
                              felt that a visible homage to the spirit needed to be constructed. And
                              this was started in May of 1913. This had the effect, of course, of
                              creating a whole new area of opposition to the science of the spirit
                              being divulged to the intellect of mankind at that time. And so, the
                              work went on of describing how the necessity of freedom required the
                              path and obstacles to be faced.

                              But now, the opposition had entered the society itself. This is what
                              Rudolf Steiner emphasizes most in this lecture. At the midpoint of the
                              year that began with the burning down of the Goetheanum, while actively
                              contemplating the future course to be felt later on with the CC of
                              1923, this is what he says. And pay close attention please, because he
                              knows what the future will bring. In spite of all his enormous
                              efforts, he knows what the immediate future will bring.

                              Steve
                            • Stephen Hale
                              ... ... the ... and ... some ... quite eye- ... a ... as to ... karma ... into ... character at ... possible ... the ... Steiner ...
                              Message 14 of 21 , Nov 26, 2007
                                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                                <sardisian01@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                                <sardisian01@>
                                > wrote:
                                >
                                > > So, yes, I will continue this thread in a little while because
                                the
                                > > subject of the compromise of 1901 hasn't really been dealt with,
                                and
                                > it
                                > > represents the key factor then as well as now. But also, I have
                                some
                                > > material concerning a certain prescience on the part of Rudolf
                                > Steiner
                                > > concerning 1935, coming twelve years beforehand. And it is
                                quite eye-
                                > > opening. Also, it seems that Mr. Prokofieff was given more than
                                a
                                > > little indication of what occurred between 1925 and 1935, such
                                as to
                                > > make him feel that he himself had taken on at least part of the
                                karma
                                > > of Rudolf Steiner. And this is worth getting into a bit as well.
                                >
                                > For those interested, please read the seventh lecture of Steiner's
                                > lecture course: The Anthroposophic Movement, which I have posted
                                into
                                > the files section under the title: "The Consolidation of the
                                > Anthroposophical Movement". It describes how the outer opposition
                                > toward the movement from its origination, took on an inner
                                character at
                                > the time of the outbreak of WWI, and how it would have been
                                possible
                                > for everything Steiner had said up til 1914 to have sufficed for
                                the
                                > duration of the 20th century if it had not been for the war.
                                >
                                > It was due to the onset of the war, and its prescience, that
                                Steiner
                                > felt that a visible homage to the spirit needed to be
                                constructed. And
                                > this was started in May of 1913. This had the effect, of course,
                                of
                                > creating a whole new area of opposition to the science of the
                                spirit
                                > being divulged to the intellect of mankind at that time. And so,
                                the
                                > work went on of describing how the necessity of freedom required
                                the
                                > path and obstacles to be faced.
                                >
                                > But now, the opposition had entered the society itself. This is
                                what
                                > Rudolf Steiner emphasizes most in this lecture. At the midpoint
                                of the
                                > year that began with the burning down of the Goetheanum, while
                                actively
                                > contemplating the future course to be felt later on with the CC of
                                > 1923, this is what he says. And pay close attention please,
                                because he
                                > knows what the future will bring. In spite of all his enormous
                                > efforts, he knows what the immediate future will bring.
                                >
                                > Steve

                                I also found another seemingly very important lecture while I was
                                researching this subject. In fact, I find it quite prescient in its
                                own right. I felt that Steiner was acknowledging that something was
                                right about to take place. See if you see it as well. Here it is:

                                The Relation of the Movement for Religious Renewal to the
                                Anthroposophical Movement

                                http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/RelMov_index.html

                                Oh boy. I mean, oh boy!!
                              • Stephen Hale
                                ... the ... actively ... he ... And here is what he says in the midst of this seventh lecture: Now at a certain point of the third phase during the war, I
                                Message 15 of 21 , Nov 26, 2007
                                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > But now, the opposition had entered the society itself. This is what
                                  > Rudolf Steiner emphasizes most in this lecture. At the midpoint of
                                  the
                                  > year that began with the burning down of the Goetheanum, while
                                  actively
                                  > contemplating the future course to be felt later on with the CC of
                                  > 1923, this is what he says. And pay close attention please, because
                                  he
                                  > knows what the future will bring. In spite of all his enormous
                                  > efforts, he knows what the immediate future will bring.
                                  >
                                  > Steve

                                  And here is what he says in the midst of this seventh lecture:

                                  "Now at a certain point of the third phase during
                                  the war, I wrote the booklet Thoughts in Time of War.
                                  This particular work elicited inner opposition which
                                  was especially noticeable. People told me that they
                                  thought anthroposophy never intervened in politics, as
                                  if that booklet involved itself with politics ! And
                                  there was more of the same. Something had affected
                                  them which should not grow on the ground of
                                  anthroposophy although it sprouts in quite different
                                  soil. There were quite a few such objections to
                                  Thoughts in Time of War, but I am about to say
                                  something terribly arrogant, but true nevertheless; no
                                  one ever acknowledged that the whole thing was not
                                  really comprehensible to them at the time but if they
                                  waited until 1935 they might perhaps understand why
                                  that booklet was written."

                                  So there; there you have it. Actual prescience about 1935 itself. I
                                  mean, he knew. He knew what was going to take place 12 years
                                  beforehand. And it did, in fact, take place. People in 1923 didn't
                                  know what he knew was going to come about, but he did. What he gave to
                                  the anthroposophical movement in June of 1923 was a forewarning which
                                  none could obviously understand at the time.

                                  But now, in retrospect, we most certainly can. And this is very
                                  important. Important because Steiner was the real deal, and gave a
                                  lasting legacy with every ounce of his most grandly giving nature.
                                  Remember that Andrei Belyi acknowledged this very giving nature back in
                                  1912, in his memoir concerning his first real meeting with Rudolf
                                  Steiner in Berlin, just before the lecture course, "Initiation,
                                  Eternity and the Passing Moment", given in August of that year. He
                                  remembers how Steiner would still make room for all the personal
                                  conferences requested by the people who walked in the door. Even while
                                  exhausted, he would embrace them with the humility of a loving spirit
                                  who had nothing to give but to give.

                                  And even when Marie von Sievers objected to such a giving nature, he
                                  was remembered by Belyi as saying: "oh no, the more you give, the more
                                  you have to give".

                                  Says it all to me.

                                  Steve
                                • Stephen Hale
                                  ... wrote: And here is one more very significant passage from this lecture of June 17, 1923. It helps to understand why such a thing might
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Nov 26, 2007
                                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                                    <sardisian01@...> wrote:

                                    And here is one more very significant passage from this lecture of
                                    June 17, 1923. It helps to understand why such a thing might be
                                    only available now, in our time, yet fully able to be seen and felt
                                    some 84 years ago. Here it is - Steve.

                                    "Anthroposophists today must not think they have
                                    only the same commitments which future anthroposophist
                                    will have when they exist by the million rather than
                                    the thousand. When limited numbers are active in the
                                    vanguard of a movement they have to show commitment of
                                    a much higher order. It means that they are obliged to
                                    show greater courage, greater energy, greater
                                    patience, greater tolerance and, above all, greater
                                    truthfulness in every respect. And in our present
                                    third stage a situation arose which specifically
                                    tested our truthfulness and seriousness. It related in
                                    a certain sense to the subject matter discussed at one
                                    point in the lectures to theologians.

                                    Irrespective of the fact that individual
                                    anthroposophists exist, a feeling should have
                                    developed and must develop, among them that
                                    Anthroposophia exists as a separate being, who moves
                                    about amongst us, as it were, towards whom we carry a
                                    responsibility in every moment of our lives.
                                    Anthroposophia is actually an invisible person who
                                    walks among visible people and towards whom we must
                                    show the greatest responsibility for as long as we are
                                    a small group. Anthroposophia is someone who must be
                                    understood as an invisible person, as someone with a
                                    real existence, who should be consulted in the
                                    individual actions of our lives.

                                    Thus, if connections form between people –
                                    friendships, cliques and so on – at a time when the
                                    group of anthroposophists is still small, it is all
                                    the more necessary to consult and to be able to
                                    justify all one's actions before this invisible
                                    person.

                                    This will, of course, apply less and less as
                                    anthroposophy spreads. But as long as it remains the
                                    property of a small group of people, it is necessary
                                    for every action to follow from consultation with the
                                    person Anthroposophia. That Anthroposophia should be
                                    seen as a living being is an essential condition of
                                    its existence. It will only be allowed to die when its
                                    group of supporters has expanded immeasurably. What we
                                    require, then, is a deeply serious commitment to the
                                    invisible person I have just spoken about. That
                                    commitment has to grow with every passing day. If it
                                    does so, there can be no doubt that everything we do
                                    will begin and [precede] in the right way."

                                    editorial note -- I hope that proceed was what was really meant here.
                                  • carol
                                    Well Steve, I found the lecture quite to the point- that is the point which should, in my opinion, be admitted, studied and reflected upon by all
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Nov 28, 2007

                                      Well Steve, I found the lecture quite to the point- that is the point which should, in my opinion,  be admitted,  studied and reflected upon by all Anthroposophists today in light of that which  is 'dangling' in the air of our collective soul fabric.

                                      That an Anthroposophist today can readily and without illiciting any objections,  put forth a proposition that anyone who 'thinks' about the last World War needs to be apprehended and subjected to torture in view of an effective reeducation SERIOUSLY REPRESENTS in my opinion,  the continuation of something which 'should not grow on the ground of anthroposophy although it sprouts in quite different soil'.

                                      And also, that such a view be upheld by so called Anthroposophists as the right one,  as well as a complementary one which stipulates that it is ONLY RIGHT to rally oneself behing such a view, at risk of finding oneself in the 'dangerous and unknown zone', REPRESENTS to me to what extent  a ripple effect was caused by the last great war, into the minds and feelings of all people, including the Anthroposophic community,  and to what extend and how readily  many of it's members will sacrifice the core Anthroposophic spirit over to it's opposing spiritual ones....

                                      I consider this problem to be profoundly dangerous.

                                      "...Now it must be strongly emphasized that during the war, when countries were tearing each
                                      other apart, members of sixteen or seventeen nations were present here and working together; it must be
                                      emphasized that the Anthroposophical Society passed through this period without in any way forfeiting its
                                      essential nature.

                                      But neither must it be forgotten that all the feelings which passed through people's
                                      minds during this period, and thus also through the minds of anthroposophists
                                      , had a splintering effect on the Anthroposophical Society in many respects. This cannot be denied....

                                      ...But anyone watching these things will have noticed that the Society could not avoid the ripple effect,
                                      even if it appeared in a somewhat different form from usual, and that in this context something came
                                      strongly to the surface
                                      which I have described before by saying that in this third phases we saw the
                                      beginnings of what I might call a certain inner opposition to the tasks I had to fulfill in the Anthroposophical Society....

                                      ...Now at a certain point of the third phase during the war, I wrote the booklet Thoughts in Time of War.
                                      This particular work elicited inner opposition which was especially noticeable. People told me that they
                                      thought anthroposophy never intervened in politics, as if that booklet involved itself with politics ! And
                                      there was more of the same

                                      . Something had affected them which should not grow on the ground of
                                      anthroposophy although it sprouts in quite different soil.
                                      There were quite a few such objections to
                                      Thoughts in Time of War, but I am about to say something terribly arrogant, but true nevertheless; no
                                      one ever acknowledged that the whole thing was not really comprehensible to them at the time
                                      but if they
                                      waited until 1935 they might perhaps understand why that booklet was written...."

                                      LECTURE SEVEN
                                      The Consolidation of the Anthroposophical Movement
                                      Dornach, 16 June 1923


                                       

                                       


                                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" sardisian01@
                                      > wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > So, yes, I will continue this thread in a little while because the
                                      > > subject of the compromise of 1901 hasn't really been dealt with, and
                                      > it
                                      > > represents the key factor then as well as now. But also, I have some
                                      > > material concerning a certain prescience on the part of Rudolf
                                      > Steiner
                                      > > concerning 1935, coming twelve years beforehand. And it is quite eye-
                                      > > opening. Also, it seems that Mr. Prokofieff was given more than a
                                      > > little indication of what occurred between 1925 and 1935, such as to
                                      > > make him feel that he himself had taken on at least part of the karma
                                      > > of Rudolf Steiner. And this is worth getting into a bit as well.
                                      >
                                      > For those interested, please read the seventh lecture of Steiner's
                                      > lecture course: The Anthroposophic Movement, which I have posted into
                                      > the files section under the title: "The Consolidation of the
                                      > Anthroposophical Movement". It describes how the outer opposition
                                      > toward the movement from its origination, took on an inner character at
                                      > the time of the outbreak of WWI, and how it would have been possible
                                      > for everything Steiner had said up til 1914 to have sufficed for the
                                      > duration of the 20th century if it had not been for the war.
                                      >
                                      > It was due to the onset of the war, and its prescience, that Steiner
                                      > felt that a visible homage to the spirit needed to be constructed. And
                                      > this was started in May of 1913. This had the effect, of course, of
                                      > creating a whole new area of opposition to the science of the spirit
                                      > being divulged to the intellect of mankind at that time. And so, the
                                      > work went on of describing how the necessity of freedom required the
                                      > path and obstacles to be faced.
                                      >
                                      > But now, the opposition had entered the society itself. This is what
                                      > Rudolf Steiner emphasizes most in this lecture. At the midpoint of the
                                      > year that began with the burning down of the Goetheanum, while actively
                                      > contemplating the future course to be felt later on with the CC of
                                      > 1923, this is what he says. And pay close attention please, because he
                                      > knows what the future will bring. In spite of all his enormous
                                      > efforts, he knows what the immediate future will bring.
                                      >
                                      > Steve
                                      >

                                    • Stephen Hale
                                      ... wrote the ... booklet ... should not ... were ... comprehensible ... was ... For those who are at least somewhat familiar with the work of Sergei
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Nov 28, 2007
                                        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...>
                                        wrote:
                                        > ...Now at a certain point of the third phase during the war, I
                                        wrote the
                                        > booklet Thoughts in Time of War.
                                        > This particular work elicited inner opposition which was especially
                                        > noticeable. People told me that they
                                        > thought anthroposophy never intervened in politics, as if that
                                        booklet
                                        > involved itself with politics ! And
                                        > there was more of the same. Something had affected them which
                                        should not
                                        > grow on the ground of
                                        > anthroposophy although it sprouts in quite different soil. There
                                        were
                                        > quite a few such objections to
                                        > Thoughts in Time of War, but I am about to say something terribly
                                        > arrogant, but true nevertheless; no
                                        > one ever acknowledged that the whole thing was not really
                                        comprehensible
                                        > to them at the time but if they
                                        > waited until 1935 they might perhaps understand why that booklet
                                        was
                                        > written...."
                                        >
                                        > LECTURE SEVEN
                                        > The Consolidation of the Anthroposophical Movement
                                        > Dornach, 16 June 1923

                                        For those who are at least somewhat familiar with the work of Sergei
                                        Prokofieff, he is the one who has done the most to revive an
                                        interest in the Christmas Conference of 1923 after the period from
                                        1925-1975 in which virtually nothing was done toward the furtherance
                                        of the anthroposophical movement in terms of the worldwide vision
                                        that Steiner felt for this supersensible event. In 1986, Prokofieff
                                        wrote an introduction describing how he came to anthroposophy, and
                                        particularly how he came to write the book, "Rudolf Steiner and the
                                        Founding of the New Mysteries". Toward the end of this
                                        introduction, after naming several books that fell into his hands
                                        concerning the CC of 1923, he writes something that has stayed in my
                                        mind as a very interesting statement. See what you think. Here it
                                        is:

                                        "Shortly after my first acquaintance with the materials of the
                                        Christmas Conference another book fell into my hands, where the
                                        history of all the difficulties and conflicts within the
                                        Anthroposophical Society after Rudolf Steiner's departure from the
                                        physical plane, together with the tragedy of its culmination in
                                        1935, is analyzed step by step in all its details. This book made
                                        such an impression on me that for several days I was "physically
                                        ill". This difficult experience, as I have said, enabled me in a
                                        very small way to gain a real idea of what it meant at the time, in
                                        1923, for Rudolf Steiner to take upon himself the karma of the
                                        Society. Thus as a result of my own experience I learnt what it
                                        really means to become a pupil of Rudolf Steiner also in this
                                        sphere. In any case, having once experienced this even to a
                                        physical degree, I also understood the impossibility of arriving at
                                        simple solutions to such questions through an outward search for
                                        the `guilty' and `innocent' parties in these events of the past.
                                        The true reality of what happened lay much deeper, and it has to be
                                        endured if one is to be freed from the urge to resolve the problems
                                        associated with it through abstractly intellectual means alone.

                                        This tormenting experience did, however, have another side to it.
                                        For immediately afterwards I had the feeling that the spiritual form
                                        of the teacher had become even closer than before and that only
                                        after this experience was I fully able to consider myself his
                                        esoteric pupil."

                                        And from here, Prokofieff goes on to more or less say that he has
                                        now taken on the karma of Rudolf Steiner for the future of the
                                        movement, the Society, and the re re-founding of the Christmas
                                        Conference of 1923/1924. I wonder what would happen if we all got
                                        ahold of this book describing this ten year period (1925-1935). I
                                        know that it must very interesting, maybe even harrowing and
                                        prophetic.

                                        Steve
                                      • carol
                                        Steve, I wonder if perhaps that short history clip needs fall into the hands of a certain segment of Anthros ONLY. I m under the impression that considering
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Nov 29, 2007
                                          Steve, I wonder if perhaps that short history clip needs fall into the
                                          hands of a certain segment of Anthros ONLY.

                                          I'm under the impression that considering the complexities of the
                                          problems and solutions, it best BE that only a few come to reflect on
                                          the contents, while a few others like yourself, peice the contents
                                          together from 'hints' which are dropped, here and there- and who knows,
                                          destiny might have it that it will eventually fall into your hands.

                                          I only have to hop over to 'you know where' to see just how
                                          'sensitivity' can be bullied around and buried because of - well, you
                                          can probably form an image of the scope of the complexities attached to
                                          this as well...

                                          I'm looking at a comparison of the spiritual 'favor' which was bestowed
                                          onto the Catholic church, but then included in this, the nurturing of
                                          it's esoteric branches, all over a good enough period of time. The
                                          scope of intensity of the spiritual impulse was immense, and I
                                          personally do not beleive that every drop of it's (RC) 'spiritual favor'
                                          has completed left humanity. One only has to reflect upon the karmic
                                          relationships which are still fueled by former ecclesiastic encounters.
                                          In an immediate sense, there still dwindles spiritual forces (albeit of
                                          still great importance from a perspective of Devachanic science) within
                                          the workings of our earthly collective soul fabric.

                                          And so my point is that when Anthroposophy gains more 'muscle' in terms
                                          of presence, it may somewhat parallel the picture of former influencial
                                          spiritual impulses. At this moment in time, I see Anthroposophy as
                                          quite a young impulse, inspite of the fact that it's origins seem to lie
                                          in the birthing efforts of Rosicrucianism some centuries ago. (Yet
                                          potent enough to 'shoulder' a stigmatised living individual)

                                          And, seeing as Anthroposophy's purpose is the development of the
                                          consciousness soul, I can't see this happening with too much ease. As
                                          it is, there are many Michael students who are unable to UTILISE
                                          Anthroposophy's society because of it's predominant 'childishness' in
                                          the face of the forces of 'world becoming'. (You could probably
                                          qualify the forces cultivated within a good part of the collectivity of
                                          souls attached to the Society as ultimately stiffling). Note, I was as
                                          if 'forbidden' to get too close to the dynamics of the collectivity here
                                          where I live.

                                          And so you have it, according to what you've presented, Sergei P was
                                          able to understand that ' understanding it all' was going to be quite
                                          difficult, meanwhile, great Michaelmic outward efforts are taking
                                          place without a direct reference to Anthroposophy.

                                          So I would assume that the Anthroposophic movement/society might be to
                                          quite a large degree, still 'submerged' within the substrata realm of
                                          soul experience, with a growing few able to raise it to the surface.

                                          And when this occurs, it becomes confirmed by yet another living soul
                                          that a simple solution is out of the question.

                                          C.




                                          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                                          wrote:
                                          >
                                          > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" organicethics@
                                          > wrote:
                                          > > ...Now at a certain point of the third phase during the war, I
                                          > wrote the
                                          > > booklet Thoughts in Time of War.
                                          > > This particular work elicited inner opposition which was especially
                                          > > noticeable. People told me that they
                                          > > thought anthroposophy never intervened in politics, as if that
                                          > booklet
                                          > > involved itself with politics ! And
                                          > > there was more of the same. Something had affected them which
                                          > should not
                                          > > grow on the ground of
                                          > > anthroposophy although it sprouts in quite different soil. There
                                          > were
                                          > > quite a few such objections to
                                          > > Thoughts in Time of War, but I am about to say something terribly
                                          > > arrogant, but true nevertheless; no
                                          > > one ever acknowledged that the whole thing was not really
                                          > comprehensible
                                          > > to them at the time but if they
                                          > > waited until 1935 they might perhaps understand why that booklet
                                          > was
                                          > > written...."
                                          > >
                                          > > LECTURE SEVEN
                                          > > The Consolidation of the Anthroposophical Movement
                                          > > Dornach, 16 June 1923
                                          >
                                          > For those who are at least somewhat familiar with the work of Sergei
                                          > Prokofieff, he is the one who has done the most to revive an
                                          > interest in the Christmas Conference of 1923 after the period from
                                          > 1925-1975 in which virtually nothing was done toward the furtherance
                                          > of the anthroposophical movement in terms of the worldwide vision
                                          > that Steiner felt for this supersensible event. In 1986, Prokofieff
                                          > wrote an introduction describing how he came to anthroposophy, and
                                          > particularly how he came to write the book, "Rudolf Steiner and the
                                          > Founding of the New Mysteries". Toward the end of this
                                          > introduction, after naming several books that fell into his hands
                                          > concerning the CC of 1923, he writes something that has stayed in my
                                          > mind as a very interesting statement. See what you think. Here it
                                          > is:
                                          >
                                          > "Shortly after my first acquaintance with the materials of the
                                          > Christmas Conference another book fell into my hands, where the
                                          > history of all the difficulties and conflicts within the
                                          > Anthroposophical Society after Rudolf Steiner's departure from the
                                          > physical plane, together with the tragedy of its culmination in
                                          > 1935, is analyzed step by step in all its details. This book made
                                          > such an impression on me that for several days I was "physically
                                          > ill". This difficult experience, as I have said, enabled me in a
                                          > very small way to gain a real idea of what it meant at the time, in
                                          > 1923, for Rudolf Steiner to take upon himself the karma of the
                                          > Society. Thus as a result of my own experience I learnt what it
                                          > really means to become a pupil of Rudolf Steiner also in this
                                          > sphere. In any case, having once experienced this even to a
                                          > physical degree, I also understood the impossibility of arriving at
                                          > simple solutions to such questions through an outward search for
                                          > the `guilty' and `innocent' parties in these events of the past.
                                          > The true reality of what happened lay much deeper, and it has to be
                                          > endured if one is to be freed from the urge to resolve the problems
                                          > associated with it through abstractly intellectual means alone.
                                          >
                                          > This tormenting experience did, however, have another side to it.
                                          > For immediately afterwards I had the feeling that the spiritual form
                                          > of the teacher had become even closer than before and that only
                                          > after this experience was I fully able to consider myself his
                                          > esoteric pupil."
                                          >
                                          > And from here, Prokofieff goes on to more or less say that he has
                                          > now taken on the karma of Rudolf Steiner for the future of the
                                          > movement, the Society, and the re re-founding of the Christmas
                                          > Conference of 1923/1924. I wonder what would happen if we all got
                                          > ahold of this book describing this ten year period (1925-1935). I
                                          > know that it must very interesting, maybe even harrowing and
                                          > prophetic.
                                          >
                                          > Steve
                                          >
                                        • Stephen Hale
                                          ... knows, ... Here is one very important piece. It is a brief outline of a much larger work that involved an investigation into what the CC of 1923 was all
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Nov 29, 2007
                                            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Steve, I wonder if perhaps that short history clip needs fall into the
                                            > hands of a certain segment of Anthros ONLY.
                                            >
                                            > I'm under the impression that considering the complexities of the
                                            > problems and solutions, it best BE that only a few come to reflect on
                                            > the contents, while a few others like yourself, peice the contents
                                            > together from 'hints' which are dropped, here and there- and who
                                            knows,
                                            > destiny might have it that it will eventually fall into your hands.

                                            Here is one very important piece. It is a brief outline of a much
                                            larger work that involved an investigation into what the CC of 1923 was
                                            all about, and just what it was designed to achieve. And also how it
                                            was effectively terminated on December 29, 1925, when the GAS decided
                                            to shut its doors and go into hiding.

                                            And it wasn't until 1944, 21 years after the conference in which Rudolf
                                            Steiner invoked an initiation of 800 people for the future of modern
                                            spirituality, that Marie Steiner relented and made the CC proceedings
                                            and the foundation stone meditation generally available for the first
                                            time. And by then, many of these 800, who were certainly poised at the
                                            time when the meditation was first invoked, had moved on.

                                            The secret to all this concerns what was ultimately revealed in the
                                            Karmic Relationships lectures wherein the karmic connections of the
                                            anthroposophical movement itself was explained. And how the foundation
                                            stone meditation conducted over the course of the nine days was the
                                            basis for a quick reincarnation before the end of the 20th century,
                                            including Steiner himself.

                                            Thus, it could certainly be said that the activities that Rudolf
                                            Steiner conducted in the nine months after the Christmas Conference of
                                            1923 were of an oracular nature; a Saturn Oracle to be exact.

                                            Here is the outline that formed the basis for the very first general
                                            membership initiative to the GAS, offered in February of 1997. It
                                            contains a very brief but interesting history of what happened; but not
                                            why. There's more to 'that' story. - Steve

                                            http://www.heaf.freeuk.com/nr46.htm
                                          • holderlin66
                                            Washington, D.C, December 3, 2007: A delayed action bomb is in the process of going off. It seems that in the `40s. our wonderful CIA hired a number of
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Dec 4, 2007

                                              "Washington, D.C, December 3, 2007: "A delayed action bomb is in the process of going off. It seems that in the `40s. our wonderful CIA hired a number of ex-Nazis of some high rank and bad reputation to work for them, mostly in Europe. Now, it turns out that they also hired the head of the Gestapo and brought him to the United States! They have tried to sit on this one, and other such types, for some years now but the real story is coming out. They also sponsored a Walter Rauff (who invented the notorious gas vans) and the really awful Dr. Mengele. The latter, who used to experiment with Jewish twins at Auschwitz, was part of one of the CIA's nutty programs to genetically create people. Also, there is a file floating around that the CIA is frantic to sit on, that discusses using microwaves to exert mind control. The did this down at Warrenton and used "volunteer' black county jail inmates. Putting people in a room and turning on massive microwaves only cooked two of them, very well-done. They dumped the bodies on a neighbor's farm. Aren't the CIA wonderful people?  Here is an accurate account taken from Wikipedia and written by a former CIA operative.  Spastic colon, here we come!"

                                               http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a2796.htm

                                              Employment by the CIA and Biographical Sources

                                              Wikipedia:

                                              Heinrich Müller, born April 28, 1900, was allegedly killed in the street fighting in Berlin in 1945 when the Soviet Army seized the German capital. In a Berlin cemetery there is a grave with a headstone, claiming that Heinrich Müller was buried underneath it. The memorial stone did not indicate that Müller had been an SS-Gruppenführer and a Lieutenant General in the German Police and that since 1935, was the head of the German Gestapo or the Secret State Police. On September 25, 1963, the body was exhumed for identification.

                                              The exhumation had been requested by the West German Ludwigsburg Center that dealt with ex-Nazis sought for prosecution. This Center had information that Müller was not dead and was, in fact, gainfully employed by a foreign government. One of the first steps in proving this was to ascertain whether the corpse in the grave was that of Heinrich Müller who had been issued a death certificate from the Death Bureau of Berlin-Center numbered 11 706/45. A subsequent pathological examination proved that there were the remains of three different men in the grave, none of whom were Heinrich Müller

                                              The man being sought was the son of a minor official, had completed a primary school education, had taken technical training in aircraft engines, worked for the BMW factory, building aircraft engines and in June of 1917 had joined the German Army. Because of his background, after his preliminary training, Müller was assigned to Flieger Ausbildung Abteilung 287 in April of 1918. In the seven months remaining before the war ended, Müller was promoted to NCO in August of 1918 and won the Iron Crosses First and Second Class. He was also awarded the Bavarian pilot's badge and after injuring his leg in an aircraft accident, the retired Bavarian pilot's badge.

                                              Müller served on the Western Front throughout the war. When the war was over, Müller joined the Munich Police in 1919 as a junior assistant. He passed his entrance examination and became a police officer. He was promoted to Police Secretary in 1929 and was in Section VI of the Bavarian State Police, a unit that dealt with Communist activity. In 1934, Müller and a number of his associates were transferred to the Gestapo in Berlin and joined the SS as a Sturmführer on April 20, 1934. In 1935, Müller was head of Department II (Gestapo). In 1936, he was head of the Gestapo division of the headquarters of the Security Police (Sicherheitspolizei). In 1937, he was promoted to senior police official (Kriminalrat) and in 1939, to the rank of Reichskriminaldirektor or Director of Police.

                                              In May of 1945, Heinrich Müller was last seen in Hitler's Berlin bunker. Shortly after the city fell lto the Russians, the body of a senior SS officer, his wife and three children at the Air Ministry complex. The body was identified as SS General Heinrich Müller of the Main Security Office, the RSHA. This, however was not the head of the Gestapo. He was Dr. Heinrich Müller of the RSHA legal department. Gestapo- Müller was born April 28, 1900, and his SS number was 107 043 while the Müller found in Berlin was born June 7, 1896 and his SS number was 290 396 (Source: `Dienstalteresliste der Schutzstaffel der NSDAP, Berlin 1944, pps 11-12)

                                              Immediately following the war, in May of 1945, Gestapo- Müller was put on the American Intelligence CROWCASS (Central Registary of War Crimes and Security Suspects) list of war criminals sought for arrest and prosecution. In 1946, U.S. CIC reported that Gestapo-Müller had escaped to Switzerland using the name Schwartzer. (Source: U.S. Army Intelligence file on Heinrich Müller XE 23 55 39 WJ p. 126)

                                              In 1948, the CIA had taken over the intelligence organization being formed by the former Wehrmacht General, Reinhard Gehlen who worked prior to this for the U.S. Army. The organization was led by Lt. Colonel James Critchfield and was stationed at Pullach, south east of Munich. At this time, Colonel Critchfield's top recruiter was one Willi Krichbaum, then resident at Bad Reichenhall. Although Critchfield denied it later, Krichbaum was a Senior Colonel (Oberführer) in the Gestapo and Müller's former deputy. He was born May 7, 1896 and his SS number was 107 039. During the war, Krichbaum was commander of the Geheime Feld Polizei of the Wehrmacht. (Source: Dienstalteresliste der Schutzstaffel der NSDAP, Berlin 1944, p. 29)

                                              Müller had been working for Swiss intelligence under Paul Masson as an expert on Communist infiltration, was put in contact with Colonel Critchfield by Krichbaum and in August of 1948, interviewed at his home in Geneva, Switzerland by James Speyer Kronthal, the CIA's station chief in Bern, Switzerland As the result of inquiries into the postwar survival of Heinrich Müller and his employment, in the United States, by the CIA and the U.S. Army, the German government's main legal center wrote, in a report dated January 31, 2000, that although Müller was reported to have died in Berlin in 1945, their report (110 AR 1619/97), stated that Müller had escaped to Switzerland and had gone to work for the American CIA and was settled, under a false name, in Washington, was a member of the U.S. Army and died in 1973. (Source: Zentrale Stelle der Landesjustizverwaltugen Report no. 110 AR 346/.2000)

                                              Because the hiring of Heinrich Müller was considered to be a potential serious public relations disaster, some effort has been made to strongly distance the CIA from this employment by claiming that Müller may have survived the war but never was employed by the United States government in any capacity. Photographs of Müller in the uniform of the U.S. Army's General Staff, taken by the U.S. Army Signal Corps, show him at a White House conference with President Truman in 1949

                                              In 1967, a series of articles on Heinrich Müller appeared in the German media, claiming he was living in Panama but it was subsequently proven that the man, who bore slight resemblance to Müller, was an expatriate American.

                                              American archival and published sources:

                                              U.S. Army Intelligence Records, Ft. George Meade, MD File no XE 23 55 39 WJ U.S. National Archives : P&O File 311.5 TS (Sections I,II,III) 1948 top secret decimal file, Records of Army General Staff, RG 319, NA Trento, Joseph, `The Secret History of the CIA", Random House, 2001, pp 29, and fn 5

                                              National Archives Washington: Repositur (Record Group) 200, (Dwork-Ducker Papers)

                                              German archival sources:

                                              Bundesarchiv Koblenz Nachlaß Himmlers: NL 126 Akten des Persönlichen Stabes Reichsführer SS: Bestand NS 19/1686. 1703, 1813, 2011, 2040 ,2556, 2648, 3464, 3874 Einsatzbefehle und sonstige Anweisungen des Chefs der SIPO und des SD an die Einsatzgruppen in der Sowjetunion: R70 SU/32 Ohlendorf-Prozeß, Nachfolgeverfahren des Nürnberger Prozessen über die Tatigkeit der Einsatzgruppen: Bestand All. Proz. 1, Rep. 501, XXVII, El8 (Anklage Paul Blobel)

                                              Bundesarchiv, Abteilungen Potsdam: Akten des RSHA Bestand R58/18, 67, 93, 141, 142, 214, 239, 241, 242, 243, 265. Akten der Parteikanzelei: NS 6/16, 22 Unterlagen aus dem Archiv des ehemaligen Ministeriums für Staatssicherheit, Abteilung 9/11 Aktenzeichen ZR 759 A. 14.

                                              Institut für Zeitgeschichte in München: Zeugenaussagen: Bestand ZS 539, ZS 573 (Dr. Emanuel Schäfer), ZS 584 (Willy Litzenberg), ZS 1746 (Adolf Eichmann), ZS 1939 (Dr. Böhme), ZS 1940, ZS 2335 (Dr. Walther Stepp) Aufzeichnungen von Rudolf Hoess über Heinrich Müller, F 13/Bd 6, Blatt 339 - 342 Mikrofilm: MA 433, 443, 445 Beweisdokumente der Israelischen Polizei aus dem Eichmann-Prozeß: Eich Nr .299, 333,1395 Bestand Fa 506/8, Fa 18311, Fa 21:Wunveröffentlichte Dokumente der Alliierten aus dem Nürnberger Prozeß: L-35

                                              Staatsarchiv München: Bestand Polizeidirektion München 6900, 6905, 6954, 8377; Akten der Regierung von Oberbayern, Kammer des Innern, Regierungsabgabe: RA58148

                                              Bayerisches Hauptstantsarchiv München: Akten des Staatsministeriums des Innern: Bestand M Inn 71469, 71880, 71881, 71920, 71936,72059, 72060 und 76234, 272,276, 343, 400, 840. 1027, 1086, 1131

                                              Staatsarchiv München: Karteikarte des Einwohnermeldeamtes, Signatur: PMB M 259 Polizeipräsidium München (bis 27. 10. 1976 Polizeidirektion), Personalabteilung: Karteikarte von Heinrich Müller.

                                              Staatsarchiv Nürnberg: Unveröffentlichte Dokumente der Alliierten aus dem Nürnberger Prozeß" NO245, NO255, NO441, NO608, NO744, NO 1533, NO 1973, N02522, N02550, NO 381 8, NO 4631, NO 4633, NO 4636, NO 4658, NO 4700, NO 4999, NO 5322 NID9915 NG 237, NG 362, NG 2354, NG 2550. NG 2652, NG 3522, NG 3700, NG 3746, NG 4275, NG 5178, NG 5554, NG 5764 PS 1151, PS1165, PS1276, PS 1682,152375,PS2377, PS2615.PS3319 (7), PS3166, D 046, D 050 US 557 USSR-413 NOKW 040, NOKW 134

                                              Archiv der Hauptschule Schrobenhausen: Zensurbuch der freiheren Deutschen Werktagsschule zu Schrobenhausen aus den Jahren 1906-1908

                                              Zentrale Stelle der Landesjustizverwaltung in Ludwigsburg: Aktenzeichen 1 AR 422/60, 415 AR 422160, 1Js 1/65 (RSHA), 1Js 4/65 (RSHA), 1Js 7/65 (RSHA) und 1Js 12/65 (RSHA)

                                              Staatsanwaltschaft Berlin: Ermittlungsverfahren gegen Heinrich Müller wegen Mordes; Aktenzeichen 1Js l/68 (RSHA)

                                              British Archival Sources:

                                              Public Records Office, Kew, Richmond: Akten der Britischen Militärgerichte: WO 235/430, 573, 574

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