Re: upside-down 3folding
- To Tom, who wrote:
>>Are you implying that Valentin Tomberg hashis head up his ass, as it were?<<
I'll try to reply only to your serious remarks
and leave your jokes aside. Trouble is, I have
such a hard time telling the difference.
Sometimes I wonder whether you even know the
difference . . . you and Tarjei.
>>. . . . I used the 3-fold man and socialorder as a way of showing that on a SOUL level,
Bradford and Joel and everyone else is equal. .
Once again, I'm not sure how serious you are
about this. It looks kinda like a joke, but I
get the feeling that you are not altogether
joking. But I bypassed it the last time, and
I'll bypass it again. Let me try to explain a
little about myself and how I approach these e-
lists. (This may be redundant for some of you,
but I guess it's unavoidable.)
I have a hard time keeping up with these e-
lists. I subscribe to three of them, and I
have my private email. I don't get much time
online, and there are other things I want to do
when I do get online. I don't even read all
the posts; I'm doing well just to scan the
blurbs and read the posts that look
interesting. And I'm just plain slow anyway.
I'm a slow typist; I'm a slow thinker; I have a
hard time concentrating and getting things
done. (A lifelong problem; probably ADD, but
never formally diagnosed.)
I used to feel as though it were my job to
straighten every twisted thought in this world,
and especially in these e-lists. But I just
can't do that; I'm not up to the job. It's
sometimes painful to walk past mangled thoughts
lying twitching in the gutter, but I have to
practice *triage*: I try to engage in e-
discussions only if something fairly important
seems to be at stake and only if there seems to
be some realistic hope of getting something
useful done. Probably I'm not up to that job
either . . . but ya do what ya can with what ya
>>. . . . The anomaly was never resolvedbecause Norman kept insisting on the fact that
Freedom in the Cultural Sphere demanded that
the Head rule here. Otherwise you would have
Marxism, in quite the opposite sense you meant.
And if you recall, the motto of the French
revolution, which we drew on then as well, was
also used by Steiner.
>>Liberte--------- Freedom ---------Thinking---- Cultural Sphere
I see no anomaly here. Culture (Steiner
actually said *Geist*, spirit, didn't he?) and
thinking are "head" (death forces) for the
individual organism, and only the individual
can be free. But culture is "belly" (life
forces) for the social organism. The
individual human organism and the social
organism are not the same.
>>I piped up something to the effect that itwas like the problem we have explaining the
Phantom Body to anyone: that the Physical Body
in its essence as Phantom is really this Warmth
Body from Old Saturn, while we normally think
of it as the Mineral Body we see today.<<
I tried, but I really don't see the analogy.
>>There's also an inversion when you run the 4elements with the 4 bodies. And I think it has
to do with the opposite directions of
involution and evolution. I remember going
round and round with Arthur M. Young (1905-
1995)in his Theory of Process about whether the
etheric body correlated with water or with air,
and vice versa for the astral body. But then
both Arthur and I ganged up on Rupert
Sheldrake, who insisted his "morphogenetic
field" idea was of the astral while Arthur
maintained it was etheric, according to
Steiner. We never resolved it, but Arthur felt
it did have to do with the opposite directions
of involution and evolution.<<
I don't see this analogy either. Are you
saying that the human organism is evolving and
the social organism involuting? (Well,
*involving* doesn't seem quite right either.)
Or is it the other way 'round? I don't see the
>>Also, I recall that back at Norman's, we alsodiscussed the 3-sub-folds of each fold, giving
3 x 3 = 9. For example, within the Economic
Sphere, you 3-fold into Head-Heart-Limbs for
the associations, where the Heads would direct
and manage while the hearts would "broadcast"
and "network" and the Limbs would do the heavy
You mean producers, distributors, and
consumers? -- Yes, the social organism is
really 9folded; I can go along with that.
Exploring this idea can deepen our
understanding. But first we need to get the
basic 3folding right side up.
>>Anyway, I'm glad you brought it up, as itshows once again that we really can't
systematize Steiner, no matter how hard we
Yes . . . the tree looks different from
different angles; there are the famous 12
world-views, and all that. Sure, there's
plenty I don't understand about the Steiner-
saids, but we can at least try to think clearly
about what Steiner said when what he said was
clear enough. And in this case it was clear,
and it makes sense when one thinks about it.
If trying to gain clarity is what you would
call *systematization*, I plead guilty -- but
guiltily not guilty enough.
>>Something baffles me here. . . . (etc., etc.)discussed anything by any of these Russians?<<
>>Do you think peace might reign if we never
I guess this is 99% joke? But for the 1%
seriousness, I have a serious question.
You brought in the maternally Russkie Tomberg
and his allegedly "incisive anthroposophical
insights". And you have made other gestures in
that direction since your return. I'm already
running the risk of starting a Tomberg thread
with G-man, but this is more of a Tom question
than a Tomberg question.
In the dreaded year 1998 you wrote an open
letter to Joan Almon. Here is a lengthy
excerpt for the benefit of the onlookers:
I myself was deeply enmeshed in the esoteric
Christian Hermetic Tombergian cult from 1980 to
about 1989. When I lived in Spring Valley in
1980, I got to know Bud & Nina Remensperger,
who were then churning out Tomberg's articles
and lectures in English from a press in their
garage --- which they called "Candeur
Manuscripts." Having been born and raised
devout Irish Catholic in NYC, and then coming
to anthroposophy at age 28, I was very
intrigued by a man who was an anthroposophist
first and then became a Catholic at age 42.
But it has really only been in the last 6
months that I have personally come to terms
with the insidious retrograde cult nature of
the movement that has sprung up around Tomberg
and his esoteric Christian legacy. Your
citation of that Prokofieff quote on page 29
exposes most tersely the nature of this evil
cult and why it is so damaging to the growth of
anthroposophy today. Allow me to reproduce it
here since this letter to you, Joan, is going
to appear on the Steiner98 List and there are
even some Society members who have not yet
received the issue.
"Some of the anthroposophists close to Tomberg
felt he was living with delusions even while he
was active in the Society, and his indications
about his own previous incarnations and those
of others do raise serious concerns. In any
case he [Tomberg] came --- rightly or wrongly -
-- to a certain conclusion that seems to me to
explain many of his actions. [Sergei ]
Prokofieff quotes Tomberg as having said to his
friend Lubensky in the early 1940's: 'The
impulse of the Consciousness Soul has failed; a
direct path must be found from the Intellectual
Soul to the WE-Soul (Spirit Self) [Manas]'" . .
. . Thank you so very much, Joan, because
exists to celebrate the spiritual and physical
reality of the Consciousness Soul Age as it
properly unfolds so beautifully and
instinctively from us Americans who were born
since the middle of this 20th Century. (See
Lecture 6 of 6 in "Challenge of the Times.")
(NOTE: But woe betide any of these Americans
who dare to bypass the Consciousness Soul Age
and whose karma it is to trip and fall down
headlong into the treacherous snake pit, sewer
and cesspool of Steiner98, a definite esoteric
mudhole that exists to detain and restrain such
irresponsible people from their drunken
Ahrimanic rush to Philadelphia.) And as if that
statement wasn't enough for me to celebrate, I
then read the article by Florian Sydow and
these sentences jumped out at me from page 7.
(Again, Joan, please forgive me for quoting
your own Newsletter back at you, but this
letter is also for my audience here on S98 ---
many of whom are not Society members at all) He
[Florian Sydow] is discussing the 3rd round of
the 666 year cycle in 1998 and how Ahriman
stands in the service of this Sorath Sun-demon,
the 2-horned Beast of the Book of Revelation:
(my emphases in ALL CAPS)
"Ahriman stands in the service of this Anti-
Christ being. The latest strategy that we can
see unfolding from this powerful alliance is to
forcefully introduce a PRE-MATURE 'SPIRIT SELF'
[MANAS] AGE without allowing for the maturing
of the human ego and individual human freedom."
"... According to Steiner's reckoning, this
'Spirit-Self' Age is not meant to BEGIN [I
repeat: BEGIN!] until the MIDDLE of the FOURTH
MILLENNIUM A.D. [i.e. 4400 A.D. = End of Kali
Yuga in 1900 + 2500 years to the appearance of
Maitreya Buddha!] ". . . in light of the warp
speed acceleration that Ahriman is bringing
about, and the FALSE VERSION OF 'SPIRIT SELF'
THAT IS BEING IMPOSED PREMATURELY, it will
become all the more important to cultivate the
pre-figuration of this future stage presently
embodied in anthroposophy."
I could probably formulate a very accurate
mission statement for my Steiner98 List out of
the above thoughts.
I get the creepy feeling that you have fallen,
or are falling, back into that "evil cult".
I'm wondering what happened to you; did you get
mugged by Joel Wendt in some dark alley of
cyberspace, or what?
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