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Re: [anthroposophy] circle, etc.

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  • Sarah Cherry
    ... Copenhagen Torben and All, There is no connection to stirring the BD preps and the Nazi use of the swastika. On the swastika in general, ere are two good
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 6, 2000
      > > From: "Danny F." <premabrahma@...>
      >
      > > But yet, it's hard to forget the use of the Swatiska by the Nazis...
      >
      >What's the story of the nazi-swastika in this connection?
      >
      >Torben
      Copenhagen


      Torben and All,

      There is no connection to stirring the BD preps and the Nazi use of
      the swastika.

      On the swastika in general, ere are two good sites containing a
      concise description of the history of the swastika and its (mis)use
      by the Nazi's.


      http://www.igc.apc.org/iearn/hgp/aeti/aeti-1997/swastika.html

      http://user.fastinet.net/kalogonis/index/lance.htm

      A friend just sent the article below on the swastika.

      Sarah
      ____________

      The English and German word SWASTIKA is derived from the Sanskrit word:
      SVASTIKAH, which means 'being fortunate'. The first part of the word,
      SVASTI-, can be divided into two parts: SU- 'good; well', and -ASTI-
      'is'. The -ASTIKAH part just means 'being'. The word is associated
      with auspicious things in India - - because it means 'auspicious'.
      About 2500 years ago, when Sakyumuni brought Buddhism to China from
      India, the Chinese also borrowed the swastika and its sense of
      auspiciousness. In China, the swastika is considered to be a Chinese
      character with the reading of WAN (in Mandarin). It is also thought
      to be equivalent to another Chinese character with the same
      pronunciation, which means 'ten thousand; a large number; all'

      The swastika symbol has been used for thousands of years among practically
      every group of humans on the planet. It was known to Germanic tribes
      as the "Cross of
      Thor", and it is interesting that the Nazis did not use that term,
      which is consistent with
      German history, but instead preferred to "steal" the Indian term
      "swastika". As the "Cross of Thor", the symbol was even brought to
      England by Scandinavian settlers in Lincolnshire and Yorkshire, long
      before Hitler. Even more interesting, the sign has been found on
      Jewish temples from 2000 years ago in Palestine, so Hitler was
      (inadvertently?) "stealing" a Jewish symbol as well as an Indian one.
      In the Americas, the swastika was used by Native Americans in North,
      Central, and South America. Since the outer arms of the swastika can
      point either counterclockwise or clockwise, the swastika has been
      used as a counterpart to the Taiji, or Yin-Yang, symbol. If you look
      at the outer circle of the Falun Dafa symbol, you will see that
      there are 4 swastikas (of Buddhas' School origin) and 4 Taiji, or
      Yin-Yang, symbols (of Taoist origin). The Taiji are not black and
      white, as those colors are a very low level manifestation. Of the 4
      Taiji, 2 are red and black (from the Tao as generally regarded) and 2
      are red and blue (from the School of the Primordial Great Tao, which
      includes the Rare Cultivation Way).

      If you look at all the swastikas of the Falun Dafa symbol, you will
      see that their arms all point counterclockwise. However, since the
      Falun Dafa can be seen from above and below, as well as the 8
      directions indicated on its outer circle by the 4 Taiji and 4
      swastikas, the Falun Dafa swastikas can be perceived to be rotating
      either clockwise or absorb energy from the universe. While rotating
      counterclockwise, it can give off energy." In India, both clockwise
      and counterclockwise swastikas were used, with different meanings:
      the counterclockwise one is associated with the goddess Kali-Maya
      (mother of Buddha, associated with the Moon), and the clockwise one
      is associated with Ganesha (elephant-headed father of Buddha,
      associated with the Sun). Since the swastika is a simple symbol, it
      has been used, perhaps independently, by many human societies. One of
      the oldest known swastikas was painted on a paleolithic cave at least
      10,000 years ago.

      Here are some references with information about the swastika: Barbara
      G. Walker, THE WOMAN'S ENCYCLOPEDIA OF MYTHS AND SECRETS (1983), and
      THE WOMAN'S DICTIONARY OF SYMBOLS & SACRED OBJECTS (1988), both
      published by Harper & Row; James A. Michener, THE SOURCE; Ernest
      Klein, KLEIN'S COMPREHENSIVE ETYMOLOGICAL DICTIONARY OF THE ENGLISH
      LANGUAGE (Elsevier, 1971); Robert H. Mathews, MATHEWS'
      CHINESE-ENGLISH DICTIONARY (Harvard, 1966).

      http://www.innerx.net/personal/tsmith/swas.html
    • Danny F.
      ... There was a talk going on as wether there is such a thing as bad (counterclock) and good(clockwise). The conclusion of it seemed that everything is fine
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 7, 2000
        --- Torben Zenth <science@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > > From: "Danny F." <premabrahma@...>
        >
        > > But yet, it's hard to forget the use of the Swatiska by the
        > Nazis...
        >
        > What's the story of the nazi-swastika in this connection?
        >
        > Torben
        > Copenhagen


        There was a talk going on as wether there is such a thing as bad
        (counterclock) and good(clockwise). The conclusion of it seemed that
        everything is fine either way. My own thinking is that it might
        not matter much about dancing aroung in a rircle either direction,
        but there are particular symbols(swatiska, pentagram for example),
        that when inverted represent a decadence and fall. That's what
        I meant by recallling the particular symbol of the swatiska. We
        know the Nazis and their occult connection and knowledge, no
        coincidence in the choice of swatiska going the other way round.

        Best regards,
        Danny


        =====
        "Vide igitur, ne Lumen, quod in te est, tenebrae sint."
        --Tractatus Aristotelis

        "No bird soars too high, if he soars with his own wings."
        --William Blake

        __________________________________________________
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      • Sarah Cherry
        ... Well, I m not sure this is the case. To the ancients, the clockwise spiraling did invoke energy toward the earth, but this was by no means evil of itself.
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 9, 2000
          At 12:34 PM -0800 11/7/00, Danny F. wrote:
          >There was a talk going on as wether there is such a thing as bad
          > (counterclock) and good(clockwise). The conclusion of it seemed that
          > everything is fine either way. My own thinking is that it might
          > not matter much about dancing aroung in a rircle either direction,
          > but there are particular symbols(swatiska, pentagram for example),
          > that when inverted represent a decadence and fall.


          Well, I'm not sure this is the case. To the ancients, the clockwise
          spiraling did invoke energy toward the earth, but this was by no
          means evil of itself. Instead, it was the energy of the Mother
          principle. The swastika became evil in the hands of the Nazi due to
          *human intent*.

          Warmly,

          Sarah
        • Danny F.
          ... I agree with you. Though, there are symbols that get loaded and perverted, by the human intent, and it last actually. There is still power in the nazi
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 9, 2000
            --- Sarah Cherry <sncherr@...> wrote:
            > At 12:34 PM -0800 11/7/00, Danny F. wrote:
            > >There was a talk going on as wether there is such a thing as bad
            > > (counterclock) and good(clockwise). The conclusion of it seemed
            > that
            > > everything is fine either way. My own thinking is that it might
            > > not matter much about dancing aroung in a rircle either direction,
            > > but there are particular symbols(swatiska, pentagram for example),
            > > that when inverted represent a decadence and fall.
            >
            >
            > Well, I'm not sure this is the case. To the ancients, the clockwise
            > spiraling did invoke energy toward the earth, but this was by no
            > means evil of itself. Instead, it was the energy of the Mother
            > principle. The swastika became evil in the hands of the Nazi due to
            > *human intent*.
            >
            > Warmly,
            >
            > Sarah

            I agree with you.

            Though, there are symbols that get loaded and perverted,
            by the human intent, and it last actually. There is still power
            in the nazi gesture of the pointing of arm and hand for example,
            their clothing and countenance, there is a lasting effect that lives
            in the spiritual world as a "tank". There is such a thing as
            disempowering and empowering of everything, 'fashions' work in
            such a way, the fashion empower everything that comes to "mate"
            with it, while it disempower that which is not like. You could be
            a god, but if you live in the materialistic fashion that is around,
            you will not be seen for what you are, there is a kind of
            disempowerment in your mean of action directly on 'Man', there
            will be a repelling effect, a cynical(ripping), robbing on the
            soul, a disempowerment on that which is alive and holy, this is at
            the same time a step of initiation: the encounter with evil,
            a powerlessness.

            What I wrote actually "it's hard to forget the swatiska in that
            connection", was an instant reaction to the "everything is fine
            and good" whatever you do. I consider that it can actually be
            one of the danger for the 'neophyte' that comes in contact with
            'Hermetism' for example, for there is said that everything is good
            and works toward it, the first degree and simplistic understanding
            of that lead to indifference towards evil.

            We have to beware of the fashions of behaviour and styles for example,
            for the "inspiration" of a trend can be far from holy, and the
            "unenlighted" are like sponge in that regard.

            May the thinking come strong, because actually it is mostly
            experience from the sentient soul, Ahriman is glad to give
            the illusion of the intellect, but moslty still this is
            the sentient soul that humanity is stuck in, same thing
            for conciousness soul, it is experienced as a pressure on the
            sentient soul, it get very subconcious, powerful and blind
            as impulse; 'Man' get buried in the grave of the world.
            There's a seed that has to be awakened...
            A guarrantee, a pearl that has to be discovered and used.

            I myself trust the Ahriman's incarnation as to change the take,
            this will be tremendous exciting time for anthroposophists,
            the cards will be on the table then, we'll be able to play
            the real "game" better then: 'salvation'.

            Best regards,
            Danny

            =====
            "Vide igitur, ne Lumen, quod in te est, tenebrae sint."
            --Tractatus Aristotelis

            "No bird soars too high, if he soars with his own wings."
            --William Blake

            __________________________________________________
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          • starmann77@aol.com
            Left and right are not just mirror-images of each other, but are qualitatively different. So are clockwise and counter-clockwise. Do your eurythmy!
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 9, 2000
              Left and right are not just mirror-images of each other, but are
              qualitatively different. So are clockwise and counter-clockwise. Do your
              eurythmy!
            • Danny F.
              ... Well I know that. But in terms of evil, no one of them can be attributed the quality evil in an intrinsic way. But who could say that an inverted
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 9, 2000
                --- starmann77@... wrote:
                > Left and right are not just mirror-images of each other, but are
                > qualitatively different. So are clockwise and counter-clockwise. Do
                > your
                > eurythmy!

                Well I know that.

                But in terms of evil, no one of them can be attributed the "quality"
                'evil' in an intrinsic way. But who could say that an inverted
                pentagram represent something good for example? There are things that
                when inverted though becomes evil, for their inherent nature and
                meaning "flip" the other way round, become upside down. Is not
                something out of it's "regular" path, course, location, beforehand,
                afterhand: an hindrance, an evil?

                That's up to us if we can absorb the pressure of it and turn the
                light on evermore. Many will prefer the dark "cave"...
                "Go out from the middle of them" if they do not want light,
                but stay close in case they change their mind.

                As for the right or the left, I prefer the middle myself. :-)

                Some might be like Lennon though, just sitting and watching the
                wheels go round and round, and liking to watch them roll. :-)

                When Ezekiel saw a wheel, was it turning left or right?
                Was it a wheel within a wheel? :-)

                More seriously though, if the wheel within the wheel for example
                went out of it's axis to hit the other, maybe the one that got
                hit and turning clockwise will have said to itself, this other
                one that turns counterclockwise is an evil one. If it has been the
                one turning clockwise to hit the other, it would have been the
                opposite....

                Moral of the story, in this case: relativity.

                The wheel could have been shocked and hurt from the other one,
                but maybe to find itself then in a better position after...


                Time for eurythmy now...

                Best regards,
                Danny




                =====
                "No bird soars too high, if he soars with his own wings."
                --William Blake

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