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secrets?

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  • carol
    By now, it should be no secret that I have a hard time refraining from keeping an eye on things happening within the shadows . I don t really know why, these
    Message 1 of 29 , Aug 15, 2007

      By now, it should be no secret that I have a hard time refraining from keeping an eye on things happening 'within the shadows'. I don't really know why, these kind of things simply catch my eye something like when insects fly by. My eyes seem to like to rest on the subtle inspirations and expirations occuring in our human soul fabric alot more than on hard edged, in your face stuff like corporate logos glaring down on me from upon 'fear suggesting' architectural forms.

      So when Benjamin Fulford appeared on Jeff Rense's radio program back in mid July, ( http://www.rense.com/general77/fulf.htm) I was quite interested in what he had to convey. Personally, I don't think that 'Ben' really has what it takes to fully understand the complexities of the depiction that he himself places forward, though I feel that he has assumed what he has, because he has likely proven to his 'folks' that he has enough of what it takes, to take on the task of messenger. And in fact, it's a mighty big message this man has carried out into the world, and actually managed.

      Now, I'm not about to blabber out what intimate stuff I may know about the subtle levels pertaining to this story because, well, because I personaly don't feel like instigating confrontations. I'm a 'Grailer' that's about all I can  say and I really just want to stick to my business- which is taking care of MY offering to the Etheric Christ. Obscure, you might think. This is all in the obscure.

      But I will confirm something that I've already mentioned on this list and it's that the full intensity of the playfullness connected to the weather systems in my general area of residence suddenly took a turn around starting the day of Rense's broadcast. Things have since  not become 'natural' by any means, but relatively so.

      You could say, enough so that the Christ Being manages to skim through, while Ahriman remains garanteed of alot of attention.

      That's what I see was accomplished. It's pretty good in my opinion considering what was set to happen.

      Benjamin Fulford had now released another message in the form of communique. (sorry, no accent). Though some people remain sceptical, I guess it will be up to the small folks like me to keep an eye out for the revealing details that might confirm the content's validity, that's if they simply fly by...

       

      Secret government promises big changes

      By Benjamin Fulford

      The secret government of the US and EU has promised a major overhaul in the wake of the warning it got from the Chinese secret society, according to a senior Japanese public security police officer and Freemason who has been acting as an intermediary with the Chinese secret society. gExpect big changes this autumn,h he said in comments confirmed by a member of the Japanese royal family. gWhat you will be seeing is the unwinding of George Bush seniorfs 50-year campaign to turn the U.S. into a fascist regime,h the secret police agent says. gGeorge Bush senior is now a broken man showing signs of senile dementia,h he adds.

      If the sources are to be believed, U.S. President George Bushfs government will resign, before his term expires, and will be replaced by an interim regime headed by Al Gore. This will start a 2-3 year transition period during which suppressed technology, such as free energy, will be released and a new system for running the planet will be implemented, according to these two sources. gThey [The illuminati] know their rule is ending but they do not want it to end in an ugly way,h the security police source says.

      The recent market turmoil, including the Chinese threat to sell dollars, was part of the bargaining towards major changes in the secret balance of power, we are told.

      Certainly there are some encouraging signs. The tearful resignation of U.S. presidential gbrainh Karl Rove removes a central lynchpin of Bushfs regime. Since it follows six other resignations; it does look like rats abandoning a sinking ship.

      In Japan, meanwhile, the victory of the opposition Democratic Party in the recent upper house elections could lead to the end of the Iraq and Afghan wars. Japan Democratic Party leader Ichiro Ozawa has promised to block renewal of an ganti-terroristh bill that allows Japanfs Self-Defense Forces to provide considerable logistical support to the U.S. sponsored wars in the region. Without that support, it is unlikely the U.S. will have enough money or military might to continue the wars.

      Since this follows UK Prime Minister Brownfs vow to remove British troops with or without U.S. approval, it will mean the Bush regime has lost its last big war allies. Brown also publicly rebuked Bush during a recent visit by doing such things as pointedly refusing to take home a souvenir he was given.

      There are also signs the Japanese election was manipulated behind the scenes to promote a Democratic Party victory in Japan. Just before the election, the Japanese mainstream media suddenly began reporting heavily about a pension scandal the JDP has been talking -unreported- about for at least 5 years. This was crucial for their victory. We may see a general election as early as this fall, followed by the birth of a JDP government and an end to the post-war Japanese regime. It could be a sign of diminished Rockefeller influence in Japan. However, it is not a sign of diminished illuminati control of Japan since Ozawa is himself a Freemason.

      Despite the positive developments, the biggest worry is all the public hints about a new gterrorist attackh on the U.S. to be used as an excuse to trigger martial law. However, such an attack at this time gwould fool nobody,h the sources said. Many U.S. citizens might be fooled but no other government in the world would believe it. gThe secret government knows they cannot use their old tricks anymore,h the sources said.

      The Chinese secret societies meanwhile, are watching carefully for any sign of new attempts to spread disease or otherwise carry out genocidal attacks. They only give one warning and have now initiated a news blackout. I am not in the loop about what they would do if a new breach was found but, they did say whatever action they took would be gunpredictable and worse than expected.h

      At the same time, an anti-Rothschild alliance has been formed in Tokyo. They warn that the entire Bush regime was probably set up as a gbad coph to scare people in the arms of the EU ggood cop.h They say there may be other surprises, possibly including a fake UFO invasion that Henry Kissinger hinted at during the 1991 Bilderberg meeting. gWe will have to look at least four or five steps ahead in order to keep on top of these people,h the alliance says.

      So far, the EU only consists of governments that are controlled in secret by the Rothschilds etc. (Turkey is also a Rothschild fief). Their secret parliament, the Bilderbergers, have already shown they are racist by refusing to allow any Japanese to join. As a result, any effort to turn the EU into the base of a world government is doomed to fail.

      The anti-Rothschild alliance, (with the discreet backing of the Chinese secret societies), will be contacting leaders of Russia, China, India, the Muslim countries, South America, Africa etc. to create a global alliance that will demand a new way of running the planet.

      The UN Security Council will have to be replaced with a new grouping that more accurately represents the people of this planet. As it stands, 4 out of the 5 permanent Security Council members are representatives of Caucasian nations even though only 17% of the worldfs people are Caucasian. This global apartheid will have to end.

      The worldfs financial system will also have to be replaced with a more transparent and equitable system that relies on more than simple human selfish greed as the main incentive for transactions.

      Once this is done, a three-year campaign against the five curses of humanity: war, poverty, environmental destruction, ignorance and disease could be carried out. This could be a test case for replacing the Hegelian system of pitting opposite forces against each other in war with a system for people to compete towards agreed upon peaceful goals.

      The industries and lobbies that have depended on war and turmoil will have to be given new goals and direction. One possibility would be a long-term campaign to terraform Mars.

      People will have to be patient, however. These changes will happen over a period of years, not months. In the meantime, let us see if the autumn surprise appears as promised.

      http://benjaminfulford.com/secretgoverment.html

      http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=7014

       

       

    • Stephen Hale
      ... Benjamin Fulford had now released another message in the form of communique. (sorry, no accent). Though some people remain sceptical, I guess it will be
      Message 2 of 29 , Aug 15, 2007
        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:

        "Benjamin Fulford had now released another message in the form of
        communique. (sorry, no accent). Though some people remain sceptical, I
        guess it will be up to the small folks like me to keep an eye out for
        the revealing details that might confirm the content's validity, that's
        if they simply fly by..."

        Pardon me for singling you out as deserving a "big wide berth", which
        you certainly deserve as this post confirms, but I would also include
        Bradford Riley and dwerling servish as part of your enclave. Together,
        you three should be able to bring down every principle that
        anthroposophy stands for. God job!

        Steve Hale
      • Stephen Hale
        ... sceptical, I ... for ... that s ... which ... include ... Together, ... It is quite a well recognized fact that when Millard Fillmore succeeded Zachary
        Message 3 of 29 , Aug 15, 2007
          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
          <sardisian01@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@>
          wrote:
          >
          > "Benjamin Fulford had now released another message in the form of
          > communique. (sorry, no accent). Though some people remain
          sceptical, I
          > guess it will be up to the small folks like me to keep an eye out
          for
          > the revealing details that might confirm the content's validity,
          that's
          > if they simply fly by..."
          >
          > Pardon me for singling you out as deserving a "big wide berth",
          which
          > you certainly deserve as this post confirms, but I would also
          include
          > Bradford Riley and dwerling servish as part of your enclave.
          Together,
          > you three should be able to bring down every principle that
          > anthroposophy stands for. God job!
          >
          > Steve Hale

          It is quite a well recognized fact that when Millard Fillmore
          succeeded Zachary Taylor as President of the United States in 1850,
          that he sought to extend the boundaries of manifest destiny into the
          pacific region, whereby he extended a letter given by one Commodore
          Peary to the shogun of Japan to either come out, or risk
          being 'brought out' of the rather primitive hiding that had ensued
          when the emperorship was banned in the 16th century. You see, Japan
          decided not to trust anyone but themselves, and still they were
          confronted by the forces that wanted them to trade.

          And this is the true legacy of Japanese-American relationships,
          regardless of what Benjamin Fulford wants to say. America wants to
          rule the world, yes indeed. And the Shogunate of Japan should have
          told America back in 1852 to fight or get out of their country; but
          they didn't do it. Instead, they acceded to these demands of 'trade
          or else', instead of upholding their legacy of home rule.

          Why do you think that would be?

          Steve
        • holderlin66
          It is wonderful to me that everyone tries to get a reading on the ZeitGeist. http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/ We live in a pop
          Message 4 of 29 , Aug 16, 2007

            It is wonderful to me that everyone tries to get a reading on the ZeitGeist.
            http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

            We live in a pop culture. We live in a real poltical animal house. We live in a MSM of absolute corporate whores. We also live in the ZeitGeist of the Michael era. It can be comical, as in my case, to see people wrap their hearts around our curren Michael time, use of time and Michael's Fifth epoch attempts to deliver to humanity via Spiritual Science and hundreds of thousands of different voices, the Consciousness Soul Ascension style mysteries. Ascension style mysteries of course can be grasped in the huge and swelling sea of young astra awakening young people who craved to encounter Education as in Harry Potter.  There is a vast hunger to have a higher education roadmap.  I know that Steve Hale has the only roadmap fit for the Fifth Epoch exploration of the ZeitGeist, and that is why, through the years that I have shared and enjoyed the research of Steve Hale, he has always surprised me.

            I always look forward to something, anything that Anthros can perk up, plug into and offer in terms of what's the deal? Of course there are the forces of disciplined inner work that develops via KOHW and the pineal illuminating forces of The Philosophy of Freedom. And there is the exoteric urge to follow the trends bursting forth in our time and seeing where and why they converge or diverge from Michael Schooling.  You can see what fun we have.  My wife often uses the example of trying to herd cats.  Trying to herd moody anthro cats, trying to herd any cats into some sort of orderliness is fun to watch.

            So there are millions of intimate and profound connections and unexplored research, and nothing that I would be interested in UFO or crop circle super earthly beings needing to speak to the human soul by manipulating matter because they can't inspire a human soul to think. Most, if not all defaults and actions on Earth are gonna be found from in and by human souls. 

            But the logic of the topic of China in a rational and intellectual soul explorationg,  and mind us, mind you, and mind as it is, we can pin-point hallucinatory sentient soul fuzzies -  Intellectual Soul dry wells that only scratch at aspects of Brotherhoods and Lodges and hidden groups such as the Trilateral commission or the dementia of George Bush senior.....Hell I still wonder if they are keeping Sharon's chained soul on ice and his body on semi-coma status? 

            But like flying birds banging into transparent windows we snap our necks against the walls of the Spirit Filled Consciousness Soul because we don't attempt to use the keys to open the door.  Of course Spiritual Science is loaded with sound and solid intense research ask anyone at the WC, they are highly supportive of warm Waldorf endeavors.

            The keys to open the door of the Consciousness Soul  have to come from the heart of humanity....So China the economic strings attached to China and the war with China that has to do with recalling bad Chinese  made toys and big fat Mattel,  and trying to  scarethe Chinese because the Chinese have scared the current White House administration.... frankly....under Dick Cheney and the tools required for a calm dictator like Ahriman to rip up and shred human freedoms, habeas corpus and proceed with False Flag, public duped, dim-witted Corporate MSM supported terrorist propaganda and open murder, blamed on total Media made illusions, the same as Vendetta and George Orwell, that we are engaged in fighting a self-created illusion because think tanks and groups have intelligently in a Clock Work Orange manner, disected what for them is mind.....with the intent of preventing soul and spirit from every becoming a working concept....

            Well in the field of Rational Intellectual Soul dead regions where the monkeys play and the jungle eats each other alive.... China certainly could flex it's muscles. I may see it differently and I may choose other ways of approach to the issue, but we can always count on Steve Hale's friendly advice to help us through these dark times.  You see it is  easy to reject and refute what I bring because I am just one of those many poor underpaid Michael School hacks. Sure I graduated from the Goetheanum with Speech and Theater and sure I was a Waldorf teacher for years and sure I have produced over 30 plays and have stuck to grasping drama, myth, and how social dynamics and spiritual insights can be harvested from culture....sure all that is just the strange part of a limited destiny with a limited vision and with limited means to support the so called Grailers..... Hardly a trendy thing to do to defy New Age baloney and really work with new Grail insights...... Sure I rewrite history and include Caspar Hauser and sure I know Robert Powell, we were school chums together.... but that doesn't mean that I know what I am talking about. 

            I would much rather have my plate full of great research from the free minds of the many Anthros out there who do know what they are talking about.  Heck I have even named some names on that subject... but apparently if forgot to name Steve Hale....a sin which I shall regret in all future incarnations to come.... Especially when we are walking along some road in Russia in the sixth epoch and come upon some Chinese survivors of the horrific disasters of the culmination of the Fifth Epoch.  Poor Steve will probably have to carry my tired and timid ass over the now tropical region of bitter cold Russia as the small band of Anthros, not unlike those that survived Atlantis and headed to the Gobi..... there we will be, on our way to Swirling Dervish restaurant where Carol, now a gay ping-pong champion, challenges Steve, now a beautiful so called tropical sun-tanned Russian tarot reader to a game with high stakes.

            Meanwhile back in the Fifth Epoch there is always the current China that we know and love. 

            Uncle Sam, Your Banker Will See You Now

            By Paul Craig Roberts

            08/08/07 "
            ICH" --- - Early this morning China let the idiots in Washington, and on Wall Street, know that it has them by the short hairs. Two senior spokesmen for the Chinese government observed that China's considerable holdings of US dollars and Treasury bonds "contributes a great deal to maintaining the position of the dollar as a reserve currency."

            Should the US proceed with sanctions intended to cause the Chinese currency to appreciate, "the Chinese central bank will be forced to sell dollars, which might lead to a mass depreciation of the dollar."

            If Western financial markets are sufficiently intelligent to comprehend the message, US interest rates will rise regardless of any further action by China. At this point, China does not need to sell a single bond. In an instant, China has made it clear that US interest rates depend on China, not on the Federal Reserve.

            The precarious position of the US dollar as reserve currency has been thoroughly ignored and denied. The delusion that the US is "the world's sole superpower," whose currency is desirable regardless of its excess supply, reflects American hubris, not reality. This hubris is so extreme that only 6 weeks ago McKinsey Global Institute published a study that concluded that even a doubling of the US current account deficit to $1.6 trillion would pose no problem.

            Strategic thinkers, if any remain who have not been purged by neocons, will quickly conclude that China's power over the value of the dollar and US interest rates also gives China power over US foreign policy. The US was able to attack Afghanistan and Iraq only because China provided the largest part of the financing for Bush's wars.

            If China ceased to buy US Treasuries, Bush's wars would end. The savings rate of US consumers is essentially zero, and several million are afflicted with mortgages that they cannot afford. With Bush's budget in deficit and with no room in the US consumer's budget for a tax increase, Bush's wars can only be financed by foreigners.

            No country on earth, except for Israel, supports the Bush regimes' desire to attack Iran. It is China's decision whether it calls in the US ambassador, and delivers the message that there will be no attack on Iran or further war unless the US is prepared to buy back $900 billion in US Treasury bonds and other dollar assets.

            The US, of course, has no foreign reserves with which to make the purchase. The impact of such a large sale on US interest rates would wreck the US economy and effectively end Bush's war-making capability. Moreover, other governments would likely follow the Chinese lead, as the main support for the US dollar has been China's willingness to accumulate them. If the largest holder dumped the dollar, other countries would dump dollars, too.

            The value and purchasing power of the US dollar would fall. When hard-pressed Americans went to Wal-Mart to make their purchases, the new prices would make them think they had wandered into Nieman Marcus. Americans would not be able to maintain their current living standard.

            Simultaneously, Americans would be hit either with tax increases in order to close a budget deficit that foreigners will no longer finance or with large cuts in income security programs. The only other source of budgetary finance would be for the government to print money to pay its bills. In this event, Americans would experience inflation in addition to higher prices from dollar devaluation.

            This is a grim outlook. We got in this position because our leaders are ignorant fools. So are our economists, many of whom are paid shills for some interest group. So are our corporate leaders whose greed gave China power over the US by offshoring the US production of goods and services to China. It was the corporate fat cats who turned US Gross Domestic Product into Chinese imports, and it was the "free trade, free market economists" who egged it on.

            How did a people as stupid as Americans get so full of hubris?

            Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. He is coauthor of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.

          • carol
            ..... there we will be, on our way to Swirling Dervish restaurant where Carol, now a gay ping-pong champion, challenges Steve, now a beautiful so called
            Message 5 of 29 , Aug 16, 2007

              "..... there we will be, on our way to Swirling Dervish restaurant where Carol, now a gay ping-pong champion, challenges Steve, now a beautiful so called tropical sun-tanned Russian tarot reader to a game with high stakes."

              Excuse me? I'm presently considering the possibility of a quiet Asian race, male incarnation where I will be able to work out the Christ impulse in REAL peace without having to process all the conflictual currents passing through all peoples of the world as I am stuck doing now- being a caucasian woman and embodying multiple religious and cultural impulses- a living melting pot I am stuck being.  (Though I have to admit that I do enjoy being alive at this time.)

              Please rest assured, I hold no future plans for an Ahrimicanized life of a ping pong player over in Russia...

               

               


              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66" <holderlin66@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > It is wonderful to me that everyone tries to get a reading on the
              > ZeitGeist.
              > http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/ <http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/>
              >
              > We live in a pop culture. We live in a real poltical animal house. We
              > live in a MSM of absolute corporate whores. We also live in the
              > ZeitGeist of the Michael era. It can be comical, as in my case, to see
              > people wrap their hearts around our curren Michael time, use of time and
              > Michael's Fifth epoch attempts to deliver to humanity via Spiritual
              > Science and hundreds of thousands of different voices, the Consciousness
              > Soul Ascension style mysteries. Ascension style mysteries of course can
              > be grasped in the huge and swelling sea of young astra awakening young
              > people who craved to encounter Education as in Harry Potter. There is a
              > vast hunger to have a higher education roadmap. I know that Steve Hale
              > has the only roadmap fit for the Fifth Epoch exploration of the
              > ZeitGeist, and that is why, through the years that I have shared and
              > enjoyed the research of Steve Hale, he has always surprised me.
              >
              > I always look forward to something, anything that Anthros can perk up,
              > plug into and offer in terms of what's the deal? Of course there are the
              > forces of disciplined inner work that develops via KOHW and the pineal
              > illuminating forces of The Philosophy of Freedom. And there is the
              > exoteric urge to follow the trends bursting forth in our time and seeing
              > where and why they converge or diverge from Michael Schooling. You can
              > see what fun we have. My wife often uses the example of trying to herd
              > cats. Trying to herd moody anthro cats, trying to herd any cats into
              > some sort of orderliness is fun to watch.
              >
              > So there are millions of intimate and profound connections and
              > unexplored research, and nothing that I would be interested in UFO or
              > crop circle super earthly beings needing to speak to the human soul by
              > manipulating matter because they can't inspire a human soul to think.
              > Most, if not all defaults and actions on Earth are gonna be found from
              > in and by human souls.
              >
              > But the logic of the topic of China in a rational and intellectual soul
              > explorationg, and mind us, mind you, and mind as it is, we can
              > pin-point hallucinatory sentient soul fuzzies - Intellectual Soul dry
              > wells that only scratch at aspects of Brotherhoods and Lodges and hidden
              > groups such as the Trilateral commission or the dementia of George Bush
              > senior.....Hell I still wonder if they are keeping Sharon's chained soul
              > on ice and his body on semi-coma status?
              >
              > But like flying birds banging into transparent windows we snap our necks
              > against the walls of the Spirit Filled Consciousness Soul because we
              > don't attempt to use the keys to open the door. Of course Spiritual
              > Science is loaded with sound and solid intense research ask anyone at
              > the WC, they are highly supportive of warm Waldorf endeavors.
              >
              > The keys to open the door of the Consciousness Soul have to come from
              > the heart of humanity....So China the economic strings attached to China
              > and the war with China that has to do with recalling bad Chinese made
              > toys and big fat Mattel, and trying to scarethe Chinese because the
              > Chinese have scared the current White House administration....
              > frankly....under Dick Cheney and the tools required for a calm dictator
              > like Ahriman to rip up and shred human freedoms, habeas corpus and
              > proceed with False Flag, public duped, dim-witted Corporate MSM
              > supported terrorist propaganda and open murder, blamed on total Media
              > made illusions, the same as Vendetta and George Orwell, that we are
              > engaged in fighting a self-created illusion because think tanks and
              > groups have intelligently in a Clock Work Orange manner, disected what
              > for them is mind.....with the intent of preventing soul and spirit from
              > every becoming a working concept....
              >
              > Well in the field of Rational Intellectual Soul dead regions where the
              > monkeys play and the jungle eats each other alive.... China certainly
              > could flex it's muscles. I may see it differently and I may choose other
              > ways of approach to the issue, but we can always count on Steve Hale's
              > friendly advice to help us through these dark times. You see it is
              > easy to reject and refute what I bring because I am just one of those
              > many poor underpaid Michael School hacks. Sure I graduated from the
              > Goetheanum with Speech and Theater and sure I was a Waldorf teacher for
              > years and sure I have produced over 30 plays and have stuck to grasping
              > drama, myth, and how social dynamics and spiritual insights can be
              > harvested from culture....sure all that is just the strange part of a
              > limited destiny with a limited vision and with limited means to support
              > the so called Grailers..... Hardly a trendy thing to do to defy New Age
              > baloney and really work with new Grail insights...... Sure I rewrite
              > history and include Caspar Hauser and sure I know Robert Powell, we were
              > school chums together.... but that doesn't mean that I know what I am
              > talking about.
              >
              > I would much rather have my plate full of great research from the free
              > minds of the many Anthros out there who do know what they are talking
              > about. Heck I have even named some names on that subject... but
              > apparently if forgot to name Steve Hale....a sin which I shall regret in
              > all future incarnations to come.... Especially when we are walking along
              > some road in Russia in the sixth epoch and come upon some Chinese
              > survivors of the horrific disasters of the culmination of the Fifth
              > Epoch. Poor Steve will probably have to carry my tired and timid ass
              > over the now tropical region of bitter cold Russia as the small band of
              > Anthros, not unlike those that survived Atlantis and headed to the
              > Gobi..... there we will be, on our way to Swirling Dervish restaurant
              > where Carol, now a gay ping-pong champion, challenges Steve, now a
              > beautiful so called tropical sun-tanned Russian tarot reader to a game
              > with high stakes.
              >
              > Meanwhile back in the Fifth Epoch there is always the current China that
              > we know and love.
              >
              > Uncle Sam, Your Banker Will See You Now
              >
              > By Paul Craig Roberts
              >
              > 08/08/07 "ICH <http://informationclearinghouse.info/> " --- - Early this
              > morning China let the idiots in Washington, and on Wall Street, know
              > that it has them by the short hairs. Two senior spokesmen for the
              > Chinese government observed that China's considerable holdings of US
              > dollars and Treasury bonds "contributes a great deal to maintaining
              > the position of the dollar as a reserve currency."
              >
              > Should the US proceed with sanctions intended to cause the Chinese
              > currency to appreciate, "the Chinese central bank will be forced to
              > sell dollars, which might lead to a mass depreciation of the
              > dollar."
              >
              > If Western financial markets are sufficiently intelligent to comprehend
              > the message, US interest rates will rise regardless of any further
              > action by China. At this point, China does not need to sell a single
              > bond. In an instant, China has made it clear that US interest rates
              > depend on China, not on the Federal Reserve.
              >
              > The precarious position of the US dollar as reserve currency has been
              > thoroughly ignored and denied. The delusion that the US is "the
              > world's sole superpower," whose currency is desirable regardless
              > of its excess supply, reflects American hubris, not reality. This hubris
              > is so extreme that only 6 weeks ago McKinsey Global Institute published
              > a study that concluded that even a doubling of the US current account
              > deficit to $1.6 trillion would pose no problem.
              >
              > Strategic thinkers, if any remain who have not been purged by neocons,
              > will quickly conclude that China's power over the value of the
              > dollar and US interest rates also gives China power over US foreign
              > policy. The US was able to attack Afghanistan and Iraq only because
              > China provided the largest part of the financing for Bush's wars.
              >
              > If China ceased to buy US Treasuries, Bush's wars would end. The
              > savings rate of US consumers is essentially zero, and several million
              > are afflicted with mortgages that they cannot afford. With Bush's
              > budget in deficit and with no room in the US consumer's budget for a
              > tax increase, Bush's wars can only be financed by foreigners.
              >
              > No country on earth, except for Israel, supports the Bush regimes'
              > desire to attack Iran. It is China's decision whether it calls in
              > the US ambassador, and delivers the message that there will be no attack
              > on Iran or further war unless the US is prepared to buy back $900
              > billion in US Treasury bonds and other dollar assets.
              >
              > The US, of course, has no foreign reserves with which to make the
              > purchase. The impact of such a large sale on US interest rates would
              > wreck the US economy and effectively end Bush's war-making
              > capability. Moreover, other governments would likely follow the Chinese
              > lead, as the main support for the US dollar has been China's
              > willingness to accumulate them. If the largest holder dumped the dollar,
              > other countries would dump dollars, too.
              >
              > The value and purchasing power of the US dollar would fall. When
              > hard-pressed Americans went to Wal-Mart to make their purchases, the new
              > prices would make them think they had wandered into Nieman Marcus.
              > Americans would not be able to maintain their current living standard.
              >
              > Simultaneously, Americans would be hit either with tax increases in
              > order to close a budget deficit that foreigners will no longer finance
              > or with large cuts in income security programs. The only other source of
              > budgetary finance would be for the government to print money to pay its
              > bills. In this event, Americans would experience inflation in addition
              > to higher prices from dollar devaluation.
              >
              > This is a grim outlook. We got in this position because our leaders are
              > ignorant fools. So are our economists, many of whom are paid shills for
              > some interest group. So are our corporate leaders whose greed gave China
              > power over the US by offshoring the US production of goods and services
              > to China. It was the corporate fat cats who turned US Gross Domestic
              > Product into Chinese imports, and it was the "free trade, free
              > market economists" who egged it on.
              >
              > How did a people as stupid as Americans get so full of hubris?
              >
              > Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan
              > administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal
              > editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. He is
              > coauthor of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.
              >

            • carol
              ....The industries and lobbies that have depended on war and turmoil will have to be given new goals and direction. One possibility would be a long-term
              Message 6 of 29 , Aug 16, 2007

                "....The industries and lobbies that have depended on war and turmoil will have to be given new goals and direction. One possibility would be a long-term campaign to terraform Mars..."

                This looks like it might a good one for Anthroposophy.

                Perhaps I'll consider looking into it, though I think I would need a backup...

                 


                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > By now, it should be no secret that I have a hard time refraining from
                > keeping an eye on things happening 'within the shadows'. I don't really
                > know why, these kind of things simply catch my eye something like when
                > insects fly by. My eyes seem to like to rest on the subtle inspirations
                > and expirations occuring in our human soul fabric alot more than on hard
                > edged, in your face stuff like corporate logos glaring down on me from
                > upon 'fear suggesting' architectural forms.
                >
                > So when Benjamin Fulford appeared on Jeff Rense's radio program back in
                > mid July, ( http://www.rense.com/general77/fulf.htm
                > <http://www.rense.com/general77/fulf.htm> ) I was quite interested in
                > what he had to convey. Personally, I don't think that 'Ben' really has
                > what it takes to fully understand the complexities of the depiction that
                > he himself places forward, though I feel that he has assumed what he
                > has, because he has likely proven to his 'folks' that he has enough of
                > what it takes, to take on the task of messenger. And in fact, it's a
                > mighty big message this man has carried out into the world, and actually
                > managed.
                >
                > Now, I'm not about to blabber out what intimate stuff I may know about
                > the subtle levels pertaining to this story because, well, because I
                > personaly don't feel like instigating confrontations. I'm a 'Grailer'
                > that's about all I can say and I really just want to stick to my
                > business- which is taking care of MY offering to the Etheric Christ.
                > Obscure, you might think. This is all in the obscure.
                >
                > But I will confirm something that I've already mentioned on this list
                > and it's that the full intensity of the playfullness connected to the
                > weather systems in my general area of residence suddenly took a turn
                > around starting the day of Rense's broadcast. Things have since not
                > become 'natural' by any means, but relatively so.
                >
                > You could say, enough so that the Christ Being manages to skim through,
                > while Ahriman remains garanteed of alot of attention.
                >
                > That's what I see was accomplished. It's pretty good in my opinion
                > considering what was set to happen.
                >
                > Benjamin Fulford had now released another message in the form of
                > communique. (sorry, no accent). Though some people remain sceptical, I
                > guess it will be up to the small folks like me to keep an eye out for
                > the revealing details that might confirm the content's validity, that's
                > if they simply fly by...
                >
                >
                >
                > Secret government promises big changes
                >
                > By Benjamin Fulford
                >
                > The secret government of the US and EU has promised a major overhaul in
                > the wake of the warning it got from the Chinese secret society,
                > according to a senior Japanese public security police officer and
                > Freemason who has been acting as an intermediary with the Chinese secret
                > society. gExpect big changes this autumn,h he said in comments
                > confirmed by a member of the Japanese royal family. gWhat you will
                > be seeing is the unwinding of George Bush seniorfs 50-year campaign
                > to turn the U.S. into a fascist regime,h the secret police agent
                > says. gGeorge Bush senior is now a broken man showing signs of
                > senile dementia,h he adds.
                >
                > If the sources are to be believed, U.S. President George Bushfs
                > government will resign, before his term expires, and will be replaced by
                > an interim regime headed by Al Gore. This will start a 2-3 year
                > transition period during which suppressed technology, such as free
                > energy, will be released and a new system for running the planet will be
                > implemented, according to these two sources. gThey [The illuminati]
                > know their rule is ending but they do not want it to end in an ugly
                > way,h the security police source says.
                >
                > The recent market turmoil, including the Chinese threat to sell dollars,
                > was part of the bargaining towards major changes in the secret balance
                > of power, we are told.
                >
                > Certainly there are some encouraging signs. The tearful resignation of
                > U.S. presidential gbrainh Karl Rove removes a central lynchpin
                > of Bushfs regime. Since it follows six other resignations; it does
                > look like rats abandoning a sinking ship.
                >
                > In Japan, meanwhile, the victory of the opposition Democratic Party in
                > the recent upper house elections could lead to the end of the Iraq and
                > Afghan wars. Japan Democratic Party leader Ichiro Ozawa has promised to
                > block renewal of an ganti-terroristh bill that allows
                > Japanfs Self-Defense Forces to provide considerable logistical
                > support to the U.S. sponsored wars in the region. Without that support,
                > it is unlikely the U.S. will have enough money or military might to
                > continue the wars.
                >
                > Since this follows UK Prime Minister Brownfs vow to remove British
                > troops with or without U.S. approval, it will mean the Bush regime has
                > lost its last big war allies. Brown also publicly rebuked Bush during a
                > recent visit by doing such things as pointedly refusing to take home a
                > souvenir he was given.
                >
                > There are also signs the Japanese election was manipulated behind the
                > scenes to promote a Democratic Party victory in Japan. Just before the
                > election, the Japanese mainstream media suddenly began reporting heavily
                > about a pension scandal the JDP has been talking -unreported- about for
                > at least 5 years. This was crucial for their victory. We may see a
                > general election as early as this fall, followed by the birth of a JDP
                > government and an end to the post-war Japanese regime. It could be a
                > sign of diminished Rockefeller influence in Japan. However, it is not a
                > sign of diminished illuminati control of Japan since Ozawa is himself a
                > Freemason.
                >
                > Despite the positive developments, the biggest worry is all the public
                > hints about a new gterrorist attackh on the U.S. to be used as
                > an excuse to trigger martial law. However, such an attack at this time
                > gwould fool nobody,h the sources said. Many U.S. citizens
                > might be fooled but no other government in the world would believe it.
                > gThe secret government knows they cannot use their old tricks
                > anymore,h the sources said.
                >
                > The Chinese secret societies meanwhile, are watching carefully for any
                > sign of new attempts to spread disease or otherwise carry out genocidal
                > attacks. They only give one warning and have now initiated a news
                > blackout. I am not in the loop about what they would do if a new breach
                > was found but, they did say whatever action they took would be
                > gunpredictable and worse than expected.h
                >
                > At the same time, an anti-Rothschild alliance has been formed in Tokyo.
                > They warn that the entire Bush regime was probably set up as a gbad
                > coph to scare people in the arms of the EU ggood cop.h
                > They say there may be other surprises, possibly including a fake UFO
                > invasion that Henry Kissinger hinted at during the 1991 Bilderberg
                > meeting. gWe will have to look at least four or five steps ahead in
                > order to keep on top of these people,h the alliance says.
                >
                > So far, the EU only consists of governments that are controlled in
                > secret by the Rothschilds etc. (Turkey is also a Rothschild fief). Their
                > secret parliament, the Bilderbergers, have already shown they are racist
                > by refusing to allow any Japanese to join. As a result, any effort to
                > turn the EU into the base of a world government is doomed to fail.
                >
                > The anti-Rothschild alliance, (with the discreet backing of the Chinese
                > secret societies), will be contacting leaders of Russia, China, India,
                > the Muslim countries, South America, Africa etc. to create a global
                > alliance that will demand a new way of running the planet.
                >
                > The UN Security Council will have to be replaced with a new grouping
                > that more accurately represents the people of this planet. As it stands,
                > 4 out of the 5 permanent Security Council members are representatives of
                > Caucasian nations even though only 17% of the worldfs people are
                > Caucasian. This global apartheid will have to end.
                >
                > The worldfs financial system will also have to be replaced with a
                > more transparent and equitable system that relies on more than simple
                > human selfish greed as the main incentive for transactions.
                >
                > Once this is done, a three-year campaign against the five curses of
                > humanity: war, poverty, environmental destruction, ignorance and disease
                > could be carried out. This could be a test case for replacing the
                > Hegelian system of pitting opposite forces against each other in war
                > with a system for people to compete towards agreed upon peaceful goals.
                >
                > The industries and lobbies that have depended on war and turmoil will
                > have to be given new goals and direction. One possibility would be a
                > long-term campaign to terraform Mars.
                >
                > People will have to be patient, however. These changes will happen over
                > a period of years, not months. In the meantime, let us see if the autumn
                > surprise appears as promised.
                >
                > http://benjaminfulford.com/secretgoverment.html
                > <http://benjaminfulford.com/secretgoverment.html>
                >
                > http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=7014
                > <http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=7014>
                >

              • carol
                ... wrote: It is quite a well recognized fact that when Millard Fillmore succeeded Zachary Taylor as President of the United States in 1850, that he sought to
                Message 7 of 29 , Aug 16, 2007
                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                  wrote:


                  "It is quite a well recognized fact that when Millard Fillmore succeeded
                  Zachary Taylor as President of the United States in 1850,
                  that he sought to extend the boundaries of manifest destiny into the
                  pacific region,"

                  'Extend the boundaries of manifest destiny into the pacific region'?
                  This is quite interesting. Could that possibly be on the same level or
                  have anything to do with the advent of 'Nationhood super/surrealism'?

                  Sounds a little bit like theoretic/spiritual/philosophic/military jargon
                  to me.

                  Then further, "Why do you think that would be?"

                  Well, maybe the 'Americans' in their foreign policies aren't strictly
                  American. Maybe they are members of another 'shadow' grouping which is
                  actually that which defines what should be bartered for within ruling
                  elite circles. Obviously, you're not considering either the spirit side
                  of the rise of economists and scientific rule nor what has been
                  researched and discussed on the sly concerning the former by many
                  commoners.

                  But I guess, in the end, it's that you're pretty attached to America,
                  but just what part, I would think is the question. .





                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                  > sardisian01@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > "Benjamin Fulford had now released another message in the form of
                  > > communique. (sorry, no accent). Though some people remain
                  > sceptical, I
                  > > guess it will be up to the small folks like me to keep an eye out
                  > for
                  > > the revealing details that might confirm the content's validity,
                  > that's
                  > > if they simply fly by..."
                  > >
                  > > Pardon me for singling you out as deserving a "big wide berth",
                  > which
                  > > you certainly deserve as this post confirms, but I would also
                  > include
                  > > Bradford Riley and dwerling servish as part of your enclave.
                  > Together,
                  > > you three should be able to bring down every principle that
                  > > anthroposophy stands for. God job!
                  > >
                  > > Steve Hale
                  >
                  > It is quite a well recognized fact that when Millard Fillmore
                  > succeeded Zachary Taylor as President of the United States in 1850,
                  > that he sought to extend the boundaries of manifest destiny into the
                  > pacific region, whereby he extended a letter given by one Commodore
                  > Peary to the shogun of Japan to either come out, or risk
                  > being 'brought out' of the rather primitive hiding that had ensued
                  > when the emperorship was banned in the 16th century. You see, Japan
                  > decided not to trust anyone but themselves, and still they were
                  > confronted by the forces that wanted them to trade.
                  >
                  > And this is the true legacy of Japanese-American relationships,
                  > regardless of what Benjamin Fulford wants to say. America wants to
                  > rule the world, yes indeed. And the Shogunate of Japan should have
                  > told America back in 1852 to fight or get out of their country; but
                  > they didn't do it. Instead, they acceded to these demands of 'trade
                  > or else', instead of upholding their legacy of home rule.
                  >
                  > Why do you think that would be?
                  >
                  > Steve
                  >
                • Stephen Hale
                  ... Hubris; that s a term that seems applicable to Brother Bradford. Full of hubris. And Bradford sincerely wants to be recognized with every post that comes
                  Message 8 of 29 , Aug 16, 2007
                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                    <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                    > How did a people as stupid as Americans get so full of hubris?

                    Hubris; that's a term that seems applicable to Brother Bradford.
                    Full of hubris. And Bradford sincerely wants to be recognized with
                    every post that comes off the press with his suffocating 'pop
                    culture' twist. Some get it Bradford, some don't. So for those who
                    don't, just keep repeating yourself. It's bound to either make it
                    into the more subtle realms of comprehension, or lend itself to
                    senile dementia ala George HW Bush, who deserves it BTW because he
                    disrespected his own President, i.e., Ronald Reagan.

                    Now as for you and me, I drew the line some time ago, and it is a
                    well known fact that I contribute without the need for what you
                    obviously need in terms of what seems kind of a desperate attempt at
                    recognition. So, I hold no bond with the concrete goetheanum and
                    you do. Do you see the difference? No, you don't.

                    Just picture a line in the dirt.

                    Steve
                  • Stephen Hale
                    ... be ... http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070802/sc_afp/usspaceastronomymars Question: How far would far be if the physical universe extended beyond Earth?
                    Message 9 of 29 , Aug 16, 2007
                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > "....The industries and lobbies that have depended on war and turmoil
                      > will have to be given new goals and direction. One possibility would
                      be
                      > a long-term campaign to terraform Mars..."
                      >
                      > This looks like it might a good one for Anthroposophy.
                      >
                      > Perhaps I'll consider looking into it, though I think I would need a
                      > backup...

                      http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070802/sc_afp/usspaceastronomymars

                      Question: How far would far be if the physical universe extended
                      beyond Earth?
                    • Stephen Hale
                      ... Obviously, you re not considering either the spirit side of the rise of economists and scientific rule nor what has been researched and discussed on the
                      Message 10 of 29 , Aug 16, 2007
                        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:

                        "Obviously, you're not considering either the spirit side
                        of the rise of economists and scientific rule nor what has been
                        researched and discussed on the sly concerning the former by many
                        commoners."

                        Why is this so obvious to you? Remember that we have secret societies
                        that rule over the others, i.e., american brotherhood. They were the
                        ones that put HPB in an occult imprisonment because she refused to
                        cooperate with their aims, i.e., spiritualism. She was finally saved
                        by the Indian occultists and their aims, i.e., reincarnation without
                        any reference to Christ-Jahve. Thus, everything is a compromise.

                        Then Steiner came along and said: "I'll do it but I have to be free to
                        come to my own independent findings". And thus was born
                        anthroposophical spiritual science out of the theosophical antecedents
                        steeped in hinduism. For Steiner rather, it was the Rosicrucian
                        Evolutionary Conception that held sway; being born as a part of the
                        Central European cultural stream, he had the Rheinland mystics in his
                        viewfold from the beginning.

                        Just picture a little boy who never felt he was really a part of his
                        surroundings. Alone, isolated; people called him 'steiner rudolf' for
                        some reason, and he used to break his cups and saucers when he was a
                        very little boy. Go figure that one out. His mother learned to snatch
                        them up right after he ate and drank. Smart woman.

                        So, what's obvious about what I'm not getting? Economic rule over the
                        legal-juridicial and the spiritual-cultural. Doesn't that create a
                        profound imbalance? And wouldn't the geographic territory dominated by
                        Asuras-ahriman hold sway here?

                        Steve
                      • carol
                        Actually, I meant for Anthroposophy as such to focus on this part of the quote. ....The industries and lobbies that have depended on war and turmoil will have
                        Message 11 of 29 , Aug 16, 2007
                          Actually, I meant for Anthroposophy as such to focus on this part of the
                          quote.

                          "....The industries and lobbies that have depended on war and turmoil
                          will have to be given new goals and direction."

                          And even then, Anthroposophy would have to determine where it's
                          influence is best required.






                          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" organicethics@ wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > "....The industries and lobbies that have depended on war and
                          turmoil
                          > > will have to be given new goals and direction. One possibility would
                          > be
                          > > a long-term campaign to terraform Mars..."
                          > >
                          > > This looks like it might a good one for Anthroposophy.
                          > >
                          > > Perhaps I'll consider looking into it, though I think I would need a
                          > > backup...
                          >
                          > http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070802/sc_afp/usspaceastronomymars
                          >
                          > Question: How far would far be if the physical universe extended
                          > beyond Earth?
                          >
                        • carol
                          Why is this so obvious to you? Remember that we have secret societies that rule over the others, i.e., american brotherhood. They were the ones that put HPB
                          Message 12 of 29 , Aug 16, 2007
                            "Why is this so obvious to you? Remember that we have secret societies
                            that rule over the others, i.e., american brotherhood. They were the
                            ones that put HPB in an occult imprisonment because she refused to
                            cooperate with their aims, i.e., spiritualism. She was finally saved by
                            the Indian occultists and their aims, i.e., reincarnation without any
                            reference to Christ-Jahve. Thus, everything is a compromise."

                            A little nihilism there?

                            I'm not so sure that the American brotherhood is that powerful. (I find
                            they're pretty subordinate) It's been a while since I read the book
                            which I knew as 'The dangers of Materialistic Occultism'. I'm not
                            convinced that you understand the complexity of HPB's occult
                            imprisonment.

                            Let's just say that what I picked up from the stuff I stumbled across
                            where Steiner mentioned HPB was that it can happen that a person's
                            spiritual experience can be caused to be veiled, supersensibly. Not
                            necessarily by earthly individuals' 'magic' powers, but by benevolent
                            spiritual forces working at that time as well. This is what I understood
                            from the skimpy sources that I came across on HPB.

                            I am also open to consider complex incarnation variables.

                            Please try listing your sources and quotes. That would help.

                            "...Thus, everything is a compromise."

                            Steve. It's a comprimise if that's where YOU are.


                            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" organicethics@ wrote:
                            >
                            > "Obviously, you're not considering either the spirit side
                            > of the rise of economists and scientific rule nor what has been
                            > researched and discussed on the sly concerning the former by many
                            > commoners."
                            >
                            > Why is this so obvious to you? Remember that we have secret societies
                            > that rule over the others, i.e., american brotherhood. They were the
                            > ones that put HPB in an occult imprisonment because she refused to
                            > cooperate with their aims, i.e., spiritualism. She was finally saved
                            > by the Indian occultists and their aims, i.e., reincarnation without
                            > any reference to Christ-Jahve. Thus, everything is a compromise.
                            >
                            > Then Steiner came along and said: "I'll do it but I have to be free to
                            > come to my own independent findings". And thus was born
                            > anthroposophical spiritual science out of the theosophical antecedents
                            > steeped in hinduism. For Steiner rather, it was the Rosicrucian
                            > Evolutionary Conception that held sway; being born as a part of the
                            > Central European cultural stream, he had the Rheinland mystics in his
                            > viewfold from the beginning.
                            >
                            > Just picture a little boy who never felt he was really a part of his
                            > surroundings. Alone, isolated; people called him 'steiner rudolf' for
                            > some reason, and he used to break his cups and saucers when he was a
                            > very little boy. Go figure that one out. His mother learned to snatch
                            > them up right after he ate and drank. Smart woman.
                            >
                            > So, what's obvious about what I'm not getting? Economic rule over the
                            > legal-juridicial and the spiritual-cultural. Doesn't that create a
                            > profound imbalance? And wouldn't the geographic territory dominated by
                            > Asuras-ahriman hold sway here?
                            >
                            > Steve
                            >
                          • Stephen Hale
                            ... the ... Then read the Eighth Sphere discourse in its entirety. It is available in the Files section under that name and clearly attempts to give the
                            Message 13 of 29 , Aug 16, 2007
                              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Actually, I meant for Anthroposophy as such to focus on this part of
                              the
                              > quote.
                              >
                              > "....The industries and lobbies that have depended on war and turmoil
                              > will have to be given new goals and direction."
                              >
                              > And even then, Anthroposophy would have to determine where it's
                              > influence is best required.

                              Then read the "Eighth Sphere" discourse in its entirety. It is
                              available in the Files section under that name and clearly attempts to
                              give the best influence required. Maybe the most effective even.

                              Then, come back and get serious. I mean, Anthroposophy, please focus
                              and get serious. This is a general plea. Terraforma mars doesn't
                              exist, but that has already been explained. No matter. Just read the
                              complete discourse on the Eighth Sphere, which has never been offered
                              before. BTW, it is more than an introduction, but isn't it interesting
                              that Steiner never went back to it before 1925?

                              Steve
                            • carol
                              I m not falling for it Steve. Anthroposophy s spiritual forces simply exist whether you argue about it or not. Your arguments won t stop their entry. Your
                              Message 14 of 29 , Aug 16, 2007
                                I'm not falling for it Steve.

                                Anthroposophy's spiritual forces simply exist whether you argue about it
                                or not.

                                Your arguments won't stop their entry.

                                Your arguments won't obstruct receptive individuals from beholding them.

                                Your arguments won't halt anything.


                                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" organicethics@ wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Actually, I meant for Anthroposophy as such to focus on this part of
                                > the
                                > > quote.
                                > >
                                > > "....The industries and lobbies that have depended on war and
                                turmoil
                                > > will have to be given new goals and direction."
                                > >
                                > > And even then, Anthroposophy would have to determine where it's
                                > > influence is best required.
                                >
                                > Then read the "Eighth Sphere" discourse in its entirety. It is
                                > available in the Files section under that name and clearly attempts to
                                > give the best influence required. Maybe the most effective even.
                                >
                                > Then, come back and get serious. I mean, Anthroposophy, please focus
                                > and get serious. This is a general plea. Terraforma mars doesn't
                                > exist, but that has already been explained. No matter. Just read the
                                > complete discourse on the Eighth Sphere, which has never been offered
                                > before. BTW, it is more than an introduction, but isn't it interesting
                                > that Steiner never went back to it before 1925?
                                >
                                > Steve
                                >
                              • Stephen Hale
                                Actually, HPB was going to blow the lid off of the effort to bring the mediumship concerning the dead to the forefront. Her cheekiness got her into a
                                Message 15 of 29 , Aug 16, 2007
                                  Actually, HPB was going to blow the lid off of the effort to bring
                                  the mediumship concerning the dead to the forefront.
                                  Her 'cheekiness' got her into a situation where the brotherhood
                                  precipitated a cloud to come over her aura, thus causing her to
                                  become indrawn into herself for the period of time until her rescue
                                  by the Indian occultists. Thus, she was imprisoned within her own
                                  spiritual gifts with no recourse to extend them outwardly for this
                                  time. Then, as the compromise required of her pardon, she had to be
                                  the voice for the Indian occultists, which meant extolling the
                                  certitude of repeated earth lives but eliminating Jahve and Christ
                                  as the Messiah at the turning point of time.

                                  So, unless you think Steiner was a nihilist, the idea of compromise
                                  was overcome through spiritual science. You'd have to read about it
                                  in the first chapter of "Outline of Occult Science" to reallly get
                                  it. It concerns character, which exists in the subtle realm you
                                  like to talk about.

                                  Steve
                                • Stephen Hale
                                  ... it ... them. ... I m not arguing, you are. Sit down, read, and pay attention. Stop making your silly excuses, i.e., reading Jeff Rense and Benjamin
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Aug 16, 2007
                                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I'm not falling for it Steve.
                                    >
                                    > Anthroposophy's spiritual forces simply exist whether you argue about
                                    it
                                    > or not.
                                    >
                                    > Your arguments won't stop their entry.
                                    >
                                    > Your arguments won't obstruct receptive individuals from beholding
                                    them.
                                    >
                                    > Your arguments won't halt anything.

                                    I'm not arguing, you are. Sit down, read, and pay attention. Stop
                                    making your silly excuses, i.e., reading Jeff Rense and Benjamin
                                    Fulford. Get serious.
                                  • carol
                                    Sorry. ... about
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Aug 16, 2007
                                      Sorry.
                                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                                      wrote:
                                      >
                                      > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" organicethics@ wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > I'm not falling for it Steve.
                                      > >
                                      > > Anthroposophy's spiritual forces simply exist whether you argue
                                      about
                                      > it
                                      > > or not.
                                      > >
                                      > > Your arguments won't stop their entry.
                                      > >
                                      > > Your arguments won't obstruct receptive individuals from beholding
                                      > them.
                                      > >
                                      > > Your arguments won't halt anything.
                                      >
                                      > I'm not arguing, you are. Sit down, read, and pay attention. Stop
                                      > making your silly excuses, i.e., reading Jeff Rense and Benjamin
                                      > Fulford. Get serious.
                                      >
                                    • carol
                                      Steve brought: Her cheekiness got her into a situation where the brotherhood precipitated a cloud to come over her aura, thus causing her to become indrawn
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Aug 17, 2007
                                        Steve brought: "Her 'cheekiness' got her into a situation where the
                                        brotherhood precipitated a cloud to come over her aura, thus causing her
                                        to become indrawn into herself for the period of time until her rescue
                                        by the Indian occultists. Thus, she was imprisoned within her own
                                        spiritual gifts with no recourse to extend them outwardly for this
                                        time."

                                        I'm not so sure what you wrote before this quote is HPB's WHOLE story,
                                        but one thing is sure, she lived at a time where 'a certain occult
                                        train' was picking up a lot of steam. To have been actively engaging in
                                        independent occult activities at that time would not have been an easy
                                        matter, to say the least. The opposing Soratic forces must have been
                                        bourgeoning with increadible strength, enough to have eventually brought
                                        about an Ahrimanic trinity in the 1940s. Just try to imagine it. HPB
                                        standing alone with this scenario in the making, peering over her
                                        shoulder.

                                        HPB's soul may not have been fully equiped through what SHE herself was
                                        willing to furnish to it, to be able to clearly assimilate and process
                                        all that she saw and also what she ignored, occuring outwardly on an
                                        occult level, and that which was greeting all this from within her own
                                        inner 'springs'.

                                        If the brotherhood's occult forces managed to blanket her sight, I would
                                        guess that that was because she was not moraly equipped to overcome it,
                                        using her own organs of spiritual perception.

                                        That she eventually managed to place herself in the company of Indian
                                        occultists who in a brotherly 'unison' of soul forces, succeeded in
                                        assisting her in clearing away the 'fog' to a certain degree is no big
                                        deal in my opinion.

                                        And that Steiner arrived on the Theosophical scene around this time, and
                                        in a sympathic manner, requested his own individual independance vis a
                                        vis his theosophical contribution seems like no big deal to me either.

                                        And that he eventually took to his own path because he possessed the
                                        clarity and supportive inner/higher powers and purpose that the others
                                        lacked seems to me to just another example of life, rhythm, destiny
                                        playing itself out the way it always does.

                                        No sensationalism here, just drama, life trials, errors and growth.




                                        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                                        wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Actually, HPB was going to blow the lid off of the effort to bring
                                        > the mediumship concerning the dead to the forefront.
                                        > Her 'cheekiness' got her into a situation where the brotherhood
                                        > precipitated a cloud to come over her aura, thus causing her to
                                        > become indrawn into herself for the period of time until her rescue
                                        > by the Indian occultists. Thus, she was imprisoned within her own
                                        > spiritual gifts with no recourse to extend them outwardly for this
                                        > time. Then, as the compromise required of her pardon, she had to be
                                        > the voice for the Indian occultists, which meant extolling the
                                        > certitude of repeated earth lives but eliminating Jahve and Christ
                                        > as the Messiah at the turning point of time.
                                        >
                                        > So, unless you think Steiner was a nihilist, the idea of compromise
                                        > was overcome through spiritual science. You'd have to read about it
                                        > in the first chapter of "Outline of Occult Science" to reallly get
                                        > it. It concerns character, which exists in the subtle realm you
                                        > like to talk about.
                                        >
                                        > Steve
                                        >
                                      • carol
                                        Re: HPB I think it would be important to ponder on the quality of HPB s mediumship. I m not particularly equiped to map out the manner in which she processed
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Aug 17, 2007

                                           

                                          Re: HPB

                                          I think it would be important to ponder on the quality of HPB's mediumship. I'm not particularly equiped to map out the manner in which she processed her visions but I can deduce a few things. I do remember reading Steiner stating that there existed a chaotic nature in her vision's 'delivery system'. This may suggest that in fact HPB carried about her an atavistic mediumship thus vulnerable to some degree to  corruption. That she resorted to Indian occultists for assistance in her time of trouble may indicate that she understood that she was in need of organised atavistic spirituality to act as a key which could set her free.

                                          Also, simply the fact that she suffered from a clouding of her vision, could be indicative that either, she was bombarded by something of Soratic forces from within the earthl's spiritual sheaths or even, she could have received an imposed blockage from without it, from the higher devachan realm.

                                          That she was unable to unravel herself from the 'bondage' that she experienced, on her own through her own regular course of activities, could suggest that her choice of method for vision was itself vulnerable. It could have been likely so because she depended on atavistic spiritual forces and/or for one reason or another, she could not herself access the new Christian forces active within humanity's soul environment.

                                          I'm guessing.

                                          I can't imagine how she could have ignored the mystical principal of the Christ since it was so integrated into the spiritual movements of Europe since the Golgotha event. Perhaps, there also existed a principal for 'fallingl' within HPB's karma because of significant conditions which were set up as a result of her previous earth lives.

                                          Well, there's likely very much more to it.


                                          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Steve brought: "Her 'cheekiness' got her into a situation where the
                                          > brotherhood precipitated a cloud to come over her aura, thus causing her
                                          > to become indrawn into herself for the period of time until her rescue
                                          > by the Indian occultists. Thus, she was imprisoned within her own
                                          > spiritual gifts with no recourse to extend them outwardly for this
                                          > time."
                                          >
                                          > I'm not so sure what you wrote before this quote is HPB's WHOLE story,
                                          > but one thing is sure, she lived at a time where 'a certain occult
                                          > train' was picking up a lot of steam. To have been actively engaging in
                                          > independent occult activities at that time would not have been an easy
                                          > matter, to say the least. The opposing Soratic forces must have been
                                          > bourgeoning with increadible strength, enough to have eventually brought
                                          > about an Ahrimanic trinity in the 1940s. Just try to imagine it. HPB
                                          > standing alone with this scenario in the making, peering over her
                                          > shoulder.
                                          >
                                          > HPB's soul may not have been fully equiped through what SHE herself was
                                          > willing to furnish to it, to be able to clearly assimilate and process
                                          > all that she saw and also what she ignored, occuring outwardly on an
                                          > occult level, and that which was greeting all this from within her own
                                          > inner 'springs'.
                                          >
                                          > If the brotherhood's occult forces managed to blanket her sight, I would
                                          > guess that that was because she was not moraly equipped to overcome it,
                                          > using her own organs of spiritual perception.
                                          >
                                          > That she eventually managed to place herself in the company of Indian
                                          > occultists who in a brotherly 'unison' of soul forces, succeeded in
                                          > assisting her in clearing away the 'fog' to a certain degree is no big
                                          > deal in my opinion.
                                          >
                                          > And that Steiner arrived on the Theosophical scene around this time, and
                                          > in a sympathic manner, requested his own individual independance vis a
                                          > vis his theosophical contribution seems like no big deal to me either.
                                          >
                                          > And that he eventually took to his own path because he possessed the
                                          > clarity and supportive inner/higher powers and purpose that the others
                                          > lacked seems to me to just another example of life, rhythm, destiny
                                          > playing itself out the way it always does.
                                          >
                                          > No sensationalism here, just drama, life trials, errors and growth.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" sardisian01@
                                          > wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Actually, HPB was going to blow the lid off of the effort to bring
                                          > > the mediumship concerning the dead to the forefront.
                                          > > Her 'cheekiness' got her into a situation where the brotherhood
                                          > > precipitated a cloud to come over her aura, thus causing her to
                                          > > become indrawn into herself for the period of time until her rescue
                                          > > by the Indian occultists. Thus, she was imprisoned within her own
                                          > > spiritual gifts with no recourse to extend them outwardly for this
                                          > > time. Then, as the compromise required of her pardon, she had to be
                                          > > the voice for the Indian occultists, which meant extolling the
                                          > > certitude of repeated earth lives but eliminating Jahve and Christ
                                          > > as the Messiah at the turning point of time.
                                          > >
                                          > > So, unless you think Steiner was a nihilist, the idea of compromise
                                          > > was overcome through spiritual science. You'd have to read about it
                                          > > in the first chapter of "Outline of Occult Science" to reallly get
                                          > > it. It concerns character, which exists in the subtle realm you
                                          > > like to talk about.
                                          > >
                                          > > Steve
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • Stephen Hale
                                          ... No, because he was shot near the heart just after being inaugurated as President of the United States. This caused a severe loss of blood around the
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Aug 17, 2007
                                            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "swirling_dervish"
                                            <blue_star_in@...> wrote:
                                            > And Reagans got dementia too, because he didn't respect his
                                            > president?

                                            No, because he was shot near the heart just after being inaugurated
                                            as President of the United States. This caused a severe loss of
                                            blood around the brain, which serves to instigate the onset of
                                            alzheimer's. Thus, he became progressively deficient in thinking
                                            power right from the beginning of his presidency.
                                            >
                                            > No wonder I never write to ask you to post anything.. :)

                                            Haven't I been posting enough without any invitation from you?
                                            >
                                            > Now as for you and me, I drew the line some time ago, and it is a
                                            > > well known fact that I contribute without the need for what you
                                            > > obviously need in terms of what seems kind of a desperate
                                            attempt
                                            > at
                                            > > recognition.
                                            >
                                            > No you just seem to want everybody else to stop what they are
                                            doing
                                            > or thinking and become an expression of a limited field of
                                            retarded
                                            > possibilities within your straight jacketed mind.

                                            Hardly. Just writing my thoughts, take it or leave it.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > So, I hold no bond with the concrete goetheanum and
                                            > > you do. Do you see the difference? No, you don't.
                                            > > Just picture a line in the dirt.
                                            >
                                            > Yeah thats the line of retarded possibilities. I see it very
                                            > clearly, far more clearly than you can imagine.

                                            Like wood vs. cement I suspect.
                                            >
                                            > But he aint heavy, he's my brother
                                            > so on we go...

                                            I'd call it, "swirling away".
                                          • Stephen Hale
                                            Yes, you are guessing to a large degree; largely from what you only remember vaguely from reading the lectures some time ago. Even Robert Mason remembers
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Aug 17, 2007
                                              Yes, you are guessing to a large degree; largely from what you only
                                              remember vaguely from reading the lectures some time ago. Even
                                              Robert Mason remembers reading these lectures some years ago, and
                                              still thinks he remembers more than I who has them in hand.

                                              I just finished posting 12 single-spaced pages from this lecture
                                              course concerning the matter of "The Eighth Sphere", and still you'd
                                              rather guess. Would describing exactly what HPB was, in terms of
                                              sentient clairvoyancy, make it better for you? She was susceptible
                                              to being used for just this very reason; sentiency vs. fully powered
                                              intellect.

                                              Now, Steiner was the very first modern exact clairvoyant to come
                                              into the world at the turn of the 20th century. But this power was
                                              due to his being the bearer of a great individuality coming down
                                              into his being back in 1890. And when he turned 40, he was ready to
                                              write and speak the words of a modern exact clairvoyant.

                                              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...>
                                              wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Re: HPB
                                              >
                                              > I think it would be important to ponder on the quality of HPB's
                                              > mediumship. I'm not particularly equiped to map out the manner in
                                              which
                                              > she processed her visions but I can deduce a few things. I do
                                              remember
                                              > reading Steiner stating that there existed a chaotic nature in her
                                              > vision's 'delivery system'. This may suggest that in fact HPB
                                              carried
                                              > about her an atavistic mediumship thus vulnerable to some degree
                                              to
                                              > corruption. That she resorted to Indian occultists for assistance
                                              in her
                                              > time of trouble may indicate that she understood that she was in
                                              need of
                                              > organised atavistic spirituality to act as a key which could set
                                              her
                                              > free.
                                              >
                                              > Also, simply the fact that she suffered from a clouding of her
                                              vision,
                                              > could be indicative that either, she was bombarded by something of
                                              > Soratic forces from within the earthl's spiritual sheaths or even,
                                              she
                                              > could have received an imposed blockage from without it, from the
                                              higher
                                              > devachan realm.
                                              >
                                              > That she was unable to unravel herself from the 'bondage' that she
                                              > experienced, on her own through her own regular course of
                                              activities,
                                              > could suggest that her choice of method for vision was itself
                                              > vulnerable. It could have been likely so because she depended on
                                              > atavistic spiritual forces and/or for one reason or another, she
                                              could
                                              > not herself access the new Christian forces active within
                                              humanity's
                                              > soul environment.
                                              >
                                              > I'm guessing.
                                              >
                                              > I can't imagine how she could have ignored the mystical principal
                                              of the
                                              > Christ since it was so integrated into the spiritual movements of
                                              Europe
                                              > since the Golgotha event. Perhaps, there also existed a principal
                                              for
                                              > 'fallingl' within HPB's karma because of significant conditions
                                              which
                                              > were set up as a result of her previous earth lives.
                                              >
                                              > Well, there's likely very much more to it.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@>
                                              wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Steve brought: "Her 'cheekiness' got her into a situation where
                                              the
                                              > > brotherhood precipitated a cloud to come over her aura, thus
                                              causing
                                              > her
                                              > > to become indrawn into herself for the period of time until her
                                              rescue
                                              > > by the Indian occultists. Thus, she was imprisoned within her own
                                              > > spiritual gifts with no recourse to extend them outwardly for
                                              this
                                              > > time."
                                              > >
                                              > > I'm not so sure what you wrote before this quote is HPB's WHOLE
                                              story,
                                              > > but one thing is sure, she lived at a time where 'a certain
                                              occult
                                              > > train' was picking up a lot of steam. To have been actively
                                              engaging
                                              > in
                                              > > independent occult activities at that time would not have been
                                              an easy
                                              > > matter, to say the least. The opposing Soratic forces must have
                                              been
                                              > > bourgeoning with increadible strength, enough to have eventually
                                              > brought
                                              > > about an Ahrimanic trinity in the 1940s. Just try to imagine it.
                                              HPB
                                              > > standing alone with this scenario in the making, peering over her
                                              > > shoulder.
                                              > >
                                              > > HPB's soul may not have been fully equiped through what SHE
                                              herself
                                              > was
                                              > > willing to furnish to it, to be able to clearly assimilate and
                                              process
                                              > > all that she saw and also what she ignored, occuring outwardly
                                              on an
                                              > > occult level, and that which was greeting all this from within
                                              her own
                                              > > inner 'springs'.
                                              > >
                                              > > If the brotherhood's occult forces managed to blanket her sight,
                                              I
                                              > would
                                              > > guess that that was because she was not moraly equipped to
                                              overcome
                                              > it,
                                              > > using her own organs of spiritual perception.
                                              > >
                                              > > That she eventually managed to place herself in the company of
                                              Indian
                                              > > occultists who in a brotherly 'unison' of soul forces, succeeded
                                              in
                                              > > assisting her in clearing away the 'fog' to a certain degree is
                                              no big
                                              > > deal in my opinion.
                                              > >
                                              > > And that Steiner arrived on the Theosophical scene around this
                                              time,
                                              > and
                                              > > in a sympathic manner, requested his own individual independance
                                              vis a
                                              > > vis his theosophical contribution seems like no big deal to me
                                              either.
                                              > >
                                              > > And that he eventually took to his own path because he possessed
                                              the
                                              > > clarity and supportive inner/higher powers and purpose that the
                                              others
                                              > > lacked seems to me to just another example of life, rhythm,
                                              destiny
                                              > > playing itself out the way it always does.
                                              > >
                                              > > No sensationalism here, just drama, life trials, errors and
                                              growth.
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" sardisian01@
                                              > > wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Actually, HPB was going to blow the lid off of the effort to
                                              bring
                                              > > > the mediumship concerning the dead to the forefront.
                                              > > > Her 'cheekiness' got her into a situation where the brotherhood
                                              > > > precipitated a cloud to come over her aura, thus causing her to
                                              > > > become indrawn into herself for the period of time until her
                                              rescue
                                              > > > by the Indian occultists. Thus, she was imprisoned within her
                                              own
                                              > > > spiritual gifts with no recourse to extend them outwardly for
                                              this
                                              > > > time. Then, as the compromise required of her pardon, she had
                                              to be
                                              > > > the voice for the Indian occultists, which meant extolling the
                                              > > > certitude of repeated earth lives but eliminating Jahve and
                                              Christ
                                              > > > as the Messiah at the turning point of time.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > So, unless you think Steiner was a nihilist, the idea of
                                              compromise
                                              > > > was overcome through spiritual science. You'd have to read
                                              about it
                                              > > > in the first chapter of "Outline of Occult Science" to reallly
                                              get
                                              > > > it. It concerns character, which exists in the subtle realm you
                                              > > > like to talk about.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Steve
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                            • Stephen Hale
                                              ... wrote: No you just seem to want everybody else to stop what they are doing or thinking and become an expression of a limited field of
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Aug 17, 2007
                                                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "swirling_dervish"
                                                <blue_star_in@...> wrote:

                                                "No you just seem to want everybody else to stop what they are doing
                                                or thinking and become an expression of a limited field of retarded
                                                possibilities within your straight jacketed mind."

                                                Gee, I thought it was you who wanted everyone to stop and get jealous
                                                over your continuous vacation. Maybe you speak in parables, but I find
                                                it boring. Too much materialism for effect, it seems. Kind of makes
                                                me sick to my stomach.

                                                But hey! We've got a Lunar Eclipse coming up soon; August 28th to be
                                                exact.
                                              • Stephen Hale
                                                ... I don t think that s possible, unless you know more about personal initiative then I do. You see, I draw a line in the dirt for a reason. And it has
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Aug 17, 2007
                                                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "swirling_dervish"
                                                  <blue_star_in@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                                                  > <sardisian01@> wrote:
                                                  > So, I hold no bond with the concrete goetheanum and
                                                  > > you do. Do you see the difference? No, you don't.
                                                  > > Just picture a line in the dirt.
                                                  >
                                                  > Yeah thats the line of retarded possibilities. I see it very
                                                  > clearly, far more clearly than you can imagine.

                                                  I don't think that's possible, unless you know more about personal
                                                  initiative then I do. You see, I draw a line in the dirt for a
                                                  reason. And it has nothing to do with you, no matter what you imagine.
                                                • Stephen Hale
                                                  ... her ... story, ... And I m not sure you know what cheekiness means. Here s a hint: audacious. Pretty good for a woman, don t you think? But like it or
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Aug 17, 2007
                                                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Steve brought: "Her 'cheekiness' got her into a situation where the
                                                    > brotherhood precipitated a cloud to come over her aura, thus causing
                                                    her
                                                    > to become indrawn into herself for the period of time until her rescue
                                                    > by the Indian occultists. Thus, she was imprisoned within her own
                                                    > spiritual gifts with no recourse to extend them outwardly for this
                                                    > time."
                                                    >
                                                    > I'm not so sure what you wrote before this quote is HPB's WHOLE
                                                    story,
                                                    > but one thing is sure, she lived at a time where 'a certain occult
                                                    > train' was picking up a lot of steam.

                                                    And I'm not sure you know what 'cheekiness' means. Here's a hint:
                                                    audacious. Pretty good for a woman, don't you think?

                                                    But like it or not, she did compromise the situation, big time. And I
                                                    am sorry for that.
                                                  • Stephen Hale
                                                    ... Bradford. ... it ... he ... a ... attempt ... and ... attempts ... focus ... the ... offered ... luminosity.. ... No really. There s a post somewhere
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Aug 18, 2007
                                                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "swirling_dervish"
                                                      <blue_star_in@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                                                      > <sardisian01@> wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                                      > > <holderlin66@> wrote:
                                                      > > > How did a people as stupid as Americans get so full of hubris?
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Hubris; that's a term that seems applicable to Brother
                                                      Bradford.
                                                      > > Full of hubris. And Bradford sincerely wants to be recognized
                                                      > with
                                                      > > every post that comes off the press with his suffocating 'pop
                                                      > > culture' twist. Some get it Bradford, some don't. So for those
                                                      > who
                                                      > > don't, just keep repeating yourself. It's bound to either make
                                                      it
                                                      > > into the more subtle realms of comprehension, or lend itself to
                                                      > > senile dementia ala George HW Bush, who deserves it BTW because
                                                      he
                                                      > > disrespected his own President, i.e., Ronald Reagan.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Now as for you and me, I drew the line some time ago, and it is
                                                      a
                                                      > > well known fact that I contribute without the need for what you
                                                      > > obviously need in terms of what seems kind of a desperate
                                                      attempt
                                                      > at
                                                      > > recognition. So, I hold no bond with the concrete goetheanum
                                                      and
                                                      > > you do. Do you see the difference? No, you don't.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Just picture a line in the dirt.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Steve
                                                      >
                                                      > Huh
                                                      >
                                                      > Do you want to read this again Steve?
                                                      >
                                                      > "Then read the "Eighth Sphere" discourse in its entirety. It is
                                                      > available in the Files section under that name and clearly
                                                      attempts
                                                      > to
                                                      > give the best influence required. Maybe the most effective even.
                                                      >
                                                      > Then, come back and get serious. I mean, Anthroposophy, please
                                                      focus
                                                      > and get serious. This is a general plea. Terraforma mars doesn't
                                                      > exist, but that has already been explained. No matter. Just read
                                                      the
                                                      > complete discourse on the Eighth Sphere, which has never been
                                                      offered
                                                      > before. BTW, it is more than an introduction, but isn't it
                                                      > interesting
                                                      > that Steiner never went back to it before 1925?"
                                                      >
                                                      > Mmmmm...
                                                      >
                                                      > That pretty much looks like "Begging for It" to me.
                                                      >
                                                      > How you can even consider Bradford a rival I just cannot imagine.
                                                      > To me it looks like trying to compare a faulty light bulb with the
                                                      > sun and I am not talking ahrimanic electrics here, just
                                                      luminosity..
                                                      >
                                                      > Please spare us your competitive ego and rivalry with Bradford
                                                      > unless you are deliberately trying to inspire compassion.

                                                      No really. There's a post somewhere where Bradford gets really rude
                                                      with me about personal initiative. I didn't make it up to inspire
                                                      compassion or anything. Just a challenge; kind of a guy thing.
                                                      Something you wouldn't understand. Or maybe you would from the
                                                      sidelines. And let me ask, since we're on the subject: Do you
                                                      understand anything about the planetary system in which the Earth
                                                      revolves? Now I know that you don't study Anthroposophy, so where
                                                      does the cheap authority come from - Daoism, Buddhism, Sufism,
                                                      Hinduism?

                                                      So many 'isms' with so little time.
                                                    • Stephen Hale
                                                      ... bring ... Let s look at something briefly. The content of Spiritual Science is concerned with the organized, systematic and functional spiritual evolution
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Aug 18, 2007
                                                        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "swirling_dervish"
                                                        <blue_star_in@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                                                        > <sardisian01@> wrote:
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Actually, HPB was going to blow the lid off of the effort to
                                                        bring
                                                        > > the mediumship concerning the dead to the forefront.
                                                        > > Her 'cheekiness' got her into a situation where the brotherhood
                                                        > > precipitated a cloud to come over her aura, thus causing her to
                                                        > > become indrawn into herself for the period of time until her
                                                        > rescue
                                                        > > by the Indian occultists.
                                                        >
                                                        > In 500 years there will be lots more for you to write about Steve.
                                                        >
                                                        > The tales and mysteries of the modern age and the myths and the
                                                        > legends of these times.
                                                        > :)
                                                        >
                                                        > Of course you cannot respect what you dont understand..
                                                        >
                                                        > for the times they are a changin..
                                                        >
                                                        > Your old road is
                                                        > Rapidly agin'...
                                                        > Please get out of the new one
                                                        > If you can't lend your hand
                                                        > For the times they are a-changin'.
                                                        >
                                                        > As the present now
                                                        > Will later be past
                                                        > The order is
                                                        > Rapidly fadin'...

                                                        Let's look at something briefly. The content of Spiritual Science
                                                        is concerned with the organized, systematic and functional spiritual
                                                        evolution of humanity made comprehensible to our fifth cultural
                                                        epoch. In 500 years times, hopefully more will be known and
                                                        accepted than exists today relative to this subject matter.

                                                        When you say: "Of course you cannot respect what you dont
                                                        understand", I have to really wonder about the guise you take on in
                                                        these communications. Are you John King? No, he was a 17th century
                                                        pirate who got lost in the etheric world and wanted to attain
                                                        immortality through the booty of human souls. But maybe you're his
                                                        Indian disguise of Kut Humi, the great Mahatma non-gandhi of Tibet.
                                                        That would seem to me to more suit you. The avatar Kut Humi on
                                                        vacation, trying to undermine spiritual science with nearly every
                                                        word.

                                                        But it doesn't work with me because I understand more than your
                                                        convenient notions and explanations will allow. And that would be
                                                        your asuras talking out of a straw hat. Again.
                                                      • Stephen Hale
                                                        ... Well I know that I am an enemy of character armoring and the problem of the emotional plague of mankind. But I also know that I don t like to be called
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Aug 22, 2007
                                                          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "avarohanam" <avarohanam@...>
                                                          wrote:
                                                          > Well your job is obviously to teach me compassion... and its
                                                          > growing :)

                                                          Well I know that I am an enemy of character armoring and the problem of
                                                          the emotional plague of mankind. But I also know that I don't like to
                                                          be called limited, retarded, and wearing a straight-jacket. Compassion
                                                          to me is like sex. Meaning mutual.
                                                        • Stephen Hale
                                                          ... be ... or ... Let me tell you a little story. When the Voice spoke those consoling words to me back in May of 1980, around the vulcanization of Mount St.
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Aug 22, 2007
                                                            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "chanting_om"
                                                            <blue_star_in@...> wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                                                            > <sardisian01@> wrote:
                                                            > >
                                                            > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "swirling_dervish"
                                                            > > <blue_star_in@> wrote:
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                                                            > > > <sardisian01@> wrote:

                                                            > > But it doesn't work with me because I understand more than your
                                                            > > convenient notions and explanations will allow. And that would
                                                            be
                                                            > > your asuras talking out of a straw hat. Again.
                                                            >
                                                            > There is an old Zen story about a lion who was brought up by sheep
                                                            > and who thought he was a sheep until an old lion captured him and
                                                            > took him to a pond, where he showed him his own reflection.
                                                            >
                                                            > Is the image you have of yourself from your own direct experience
                                                            or
                                                            > from the opinions of others?
                                                            >
                                                            > Is it time to take a look at your own reflection in the pond?

                                                            Let me tell you a little story. When the Voice spoke those
                                                            consoling words to me back in May of 1980, around the vulcanization
                                                            of Mount St. Helens, I was dropped to my knees in resolute
                                                            humility. Do you get this aspect?

                                                            Later, when my intellect took hold again, I remember it as an
                                                            experience that coincided with what vedanta called, "saguna
                                                            brahma". And I remembered that God loved me in spite of all my
                                                            imperfections and weaknesses. I found out later that Christ Himself
                                                            was His messenger. And it gave me the power to write it down.

                                                            And so it goes.
                                                          • Stephen Hale
                                                            ... Well consider this then. Anthroposophy is a body of knowledge; new knowledge in the spirit of Plato s Academy and Aristotle s Lyceum, as well as the
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Aug 28, 2007
                                                              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "avarohanam" <avarohanam@...>
                                                              wrote:
                                                              >
                                                              > . But I also know that I don't like to
                                                              > > be called limited, retarded, and wearing a straight-jacket.
                                                              >
                                                              > Perhaps. But I still stand by what I said.

                                                              Well consider this then. Anthroposophy is a body of knowledge; new
                                                              knowledge in the spirit of Plato's Academy and Aristotle's Lyceum, as
                                                              well as the Mystery of Ephesus itself, in which you do not partake at
                                                              all. But I do. And it has nothing to do with you if I do, and say
                                                              what I say as an effort to contribute to anthroposophy, which you seem
                                                              to disfavor in favor of the holy Tao, or "no thing" as everything.

                                                              In truth, "things" are everything in the grand scheme of creating the
                                                              10th Hierarchy. But considering that this, i.e., 10th hierarchy, is an
                                                              intellectual concept, garnered from a book in which it was proffered in
                                                              the form of a sermon, albeit nonetheless true, it has had the effect of
                                                              making sense to me.

                                                              So, I am sorry for the appearance that you stand by. It is the way it
                                                              is, and represents what is essentially me at this point in my personal
                                                              evolution.
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