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Re: Order in the house

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  • Stephen Hale
    ... wrote: This alchemy by which mineral substance is sent over into the Eighth Sphere is taking place all the time behind the scenes of our
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 8, 2007
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      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
      <sardisian01@...> wrote:
      "This alchemy by which mineral substance is sent over into the
      Eighth Sphere is taking place all the time behind the scenes of our
      existence.-To begin with, I am simply communicating information;
      corroborations will emerge more and more clearly as our studies
      proceed."
      --Excerpted from "The Occult Movement in the Nineteenth Century",
      lecture 5, 18 October 1915, by Rudolf Steiner.


      http://aa.usno.navy.mil/graphics/Moon_movie.gif

      "And so this Moon circles around as a globe of dense matter, solid,
      dense, indestructible. If you read carefully enough you will find
      that even the descriptions of the Moon given by physicists tally
      with this. Everything that was available on the Earth was drawn out
      and placed there in order that there should be enough physical
      matter incapable of being wrested away. When we look at the Moon, we
      see there in the Universe a substance far more intensely
      mineralized, far physically denser, than exists anywhere on the
      Earth, Jahve or Jehova, then, must be regarded as that Being who
      even in the physical domain has ensured that not all materiality can
      be drawn away by Lucifer and Ahriman."
      --op.cit.
    • Stephen Hale
      ... wrote: Okay folks, let s take a look at this again. Watch it closely for a minute or so. What do you see going on with the moon?
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 10, 2007
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        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
        <sardisian01@...> wrote:

        Okay folks, let's take a look at this again. Watch it closely for a
        minute or so. What do you see going on with the moon? Here's a
        hint: it's the outer dimension, or aspect, of what this discourse
        has been referring to as the Eighth Sphere, or the realm of
        Densified Imaginations perceptible to atavistic clairvoyance. So
        yes, it is outwardly perceptible as well.

        > http://aa.usno.navy.mil/graphics/Moon_movie.gif
        >
        > "And so this Moon circles around as a globe of dense matter,
        solid,
        > dense, indestructible. If you read carefully enough you will find
        > that even the descriptions of the Moon given by physicists tally
        > with this. Everything that was available on the Earth was drawn
        out
        > and placed there in order that there should be enough physical
        > matter incapable of being wrested away. When we look at the Moon,
        we
        > see there in the Universe a substance far more intensely
        > mineralized, far physically denser, than exists anywhere on the
        > Earth, Jahve or Jehova, then, must be regarded as that Being who
        > even in the physical domain has ensured that not all materiality
        can
        > be drawn away by Lucifer and Ahriman."
        > --op.cit.
        >
      • Stephen Hale
        ... a ... http://aa.usno.navy.mil/graphics/Moon_phases.jpg http://aa.usno.navy.mil/graphics/Moon_movie.gif I have added the 28 recognized angles of
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 17, 2007
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          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
          <sardisian01@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
          > <sardisian01@> wrote:
          >
          > Okay folks, let's take a look at this again. Watch it closely for
          a
          > minute or so. What do you see going on with the moon? Here's a
          > hint: it's the outer dimension, or aspect, of what this discourse
          > has been referring to as the Eighth Sphere, or the realm of
          > Densified Imaginations perceptible to atavistic clairvoyance. So
          > yes, it is outwardly perceptible as well.

          http://aa.usno.navy.mil/graphics/Moon_phases.jpg

          http://aa.usno.navy.mil/graphics/Moon_movie.gif

          I have added the 28 recognized angles of representation to this
          movie, just to slow it down. Still, the movie must be watched for
          the full effect.

          Steve
        • Stephen Hale
          So again, what makes the dark shadow take the form of a curve the closer it gets to the end of the light? It can t be due to angulation because a curve
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 17, 2007
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            So again, what makes the dark shadow take the form of a curve the
            closer it gets to the end of the light? It can't be due to
            angulation because a curve denotes a sphere; and a sphere is
            definitely not an angle. And just watch how the beginning also
            starts as a curve, until the light diffuses it.

            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
            <sardisian01@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
            > <sardisian01@> wrote:
            > >
            > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
            > > <sardisian01@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Okay folks, let's take a look at this again. Watch it closely
            for
            > a
            > > minute or so. What do you see going on with the moon? Here's a
            > > hint: it's the outer dimension, or aspect, of what this
            discourse
            > > has been referring to as the Eighth Sphere, or the realm of
            > > Densified Imaginations perceptible to atavistic clairvoyance.
            So
            > > yes, it is outwardly perceptible as well.
            >
            > http://aa.usno.navy.mil/graphics/Moon_phases.jpg
            >
            > http://aa.usno.navy.mil/graphics/Moon_movie.gif
            >
            > I have added the 28 recognized angles of representation to this
            > movie, just to slow it down. Still, the movie must be watched for
            > the full effect.
            >
            > Steve
            >
          • carol
            Even Robert Mason remembers reading these lectures some years ago, and still thinks he remembers more than I who has them in hand. M. Steve. You may have
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 18, 2007
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              "Even Robert Mason remembers reading these lectures some years ago, and still thinks he remembers more than I who has them in hand."

              M. Steve. You may have them on hand, but that doesn't guarantee you in any way sureness in your interpretation of it. In the instance that Robert and I care to remember bits, it is also likely that we incorporate alot of personal, inner reflective development into our respective global approaches to these matters.

              I noticed that you accuse HPB of possessing an occultic vision which was strickly:

              "sentiency vs. fully powered intellect."

              I'm not so sure a clear divisive line existed in her case nor in Steiner's case, though admittedly, the respective mixes must have differed in a pronounced way.

              In the Steiner lecture which you use to support your claims, the following is stated:

              "It is through knowledge alone that an approach can be made to these things-verily through knowledge alone. Therefore when we began the periodical "Lucifer-Gnosis", the first article was necessarily on the subject of Lucifer, in order that he should be rightly understood, in order that it should be realized that inasmuch as he brings about head-activity, he is a benefactor of mankind. But the counterweight must also be there: "Love must be there as the counterweight. This was stated in the very first article of the periodical, because at this point it was essential to intervene. "

              How in heaven's name can 'Love' to the point that it acts as a counterweight, be experienced solely in the mind?

              And then again, there is the following:

              "And if again and again it has been said that more caution should be exercised in the domain of visionary clairvoyance, that validity should be ascribed only to that clairvoyance which, in leading into the higher worlds, excludes Lucifer and Ahriman-then it will be seen that everything capable of bringing the soul into connection with the Eighth Sphere must be rejected"

              Remember this?

              "Densified Imaginations" only perceptible to man using "Imaginative, visionary clairvoyance" of which I most certainly imagine, has been ensured a safe haven from the corruptable forces held by these same Luciferic and Ahrimanic beings."

              (Now which of us is playing a more real Anthroposophy?)

              I find it somewhat odd and strange even that a proponent of Anthroposophy should be diverting any attention to apprending the 'field' of the 8th sphere by way of the soul's inner perceptual qualities, while clearly insisting that one should look for it through a manifest image of the moon. All the time, basing himself on a document which indicates the opposite.

              This is extremely odd indeed.

              Is it a sign of desperation?

               




              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...> wrote:
              >
              > So again, what makes the dark shadow take the form of a curve the
              > closer it gets to the end of the light? It can't be due to
              > angulation because a curve denotes a sphere; and a sphere is
              > definitely not an angle. And just watch how the beginning also
              > starts as a curve, until the light diffuses it.
              >
              > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
              > sardisian01@ wrote:
              > >
              > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
              > > <sardisian01@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
              > > > <sardisian01@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Okay folks, let's take a look at this again. Watch it closely
              > for
              > > a
              > > > minute or so. What do you see going on with the moon? Here's a
              > > > hint: it's the outer dimension, or aspect, of what this
              > discourse
              > > > has been referring to as the Eighth Sphere, or the realm of
              > > > Densified Imaginations perceptible to atavistic clairvoyance.
              > So
              > > > yes, it is outwardly perceptible as well.
              > >
              > > http://aa.usno.navy.mil/graphics/Moon_phases.jpg
              > >
              > > http://aa.usno.navy.mil/graphics/Moon_movie.gif
              > >
              > > I have added the 28 recognized angles of representation to this
              > > movie, just to slow it down. Still, the movie must be watched for
              > > the full effect.
              > >
              > > Steve
              > >
              >

            • Stephen Hale
              ... ago, and ... you in ... which was ... these ... the ... in ... counterweight must ... stated ... it ... be ... should ... higher ... Eighth ... using
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 18, 2007
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                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...>
                wrote:
                >
                >
                > "Even Robert Mason remembers reading these lectures some years
                ago, and
                > still thinks he remembers more than I who has them in hand."
                >
                > M. Steve. You may have them on hand, but that doesn't guarantee
                you in
                > any way sureness in your interpretation of it. In the instance that
                > Robert and I care to remember bits, it is also likely that we
                > incorporate alot of personal, inner reflective development into our
                > respective global approaches to these matters.
                >
                > I noticed that you accuse HPB of possessing an occultic vision
                which was
                > strickly:
                >
                > "sentiency vs. fully powered intellect."
                >
                > I'm not so sure a clear divisive line existed in her case nor in
                > Steiner's case, though admittedly, the respective mixes must have
                > differed in a pronounced way.
                >
                > In the Steiner lecture which you use to support your claims, the
                > following is stated:
                >
                > "It is through knowledge alone that an approach can be made to
                these
                > things-verily through knowledge alone. Therefore when we began the
                > periodical "Lucifer-Gnosis", the first article was necessarily on
                the
                > subject of Lucifer, in order that he should be rightly understood,
                in
                > order that it should be realized that inasmuch as he brings about
                > head-activity, he is a benefactor of mankind. But the
                counterweight must
                > also be there: "Love must be there as the counterweight. This was
                stated
                > in the very first article of the periodical, because at this point
                it
                > was essential to intervene. "
                >
                > How in heaven's name can 'Love' to the point that it acts as a
                > counterweight, be experienced solely in the mind?
                >
                > And then again, there is the following:
                >
                > "And if again and again it has been said that more caution should
                be
                > exercised in the domain of visionary clairvoyance, that validity
                should
                > be ascribed only to that clairvoyance which, in leading into the
                higher
                > worlds, excludes Lucifer and Ahriman-then it will be seen that
                > everything capable of bringing the soul into connection with the
                Eighth
                > Sphere must be rejected"
                >
                > Remember this?
                >
                > "Densified Imaginations" only perceptible to man
                using "Imaginative,
                > visionary clairvoyance" of which I most certainly imagine, has been
                > ensured a safe haven from the corruptable forces held by these same
                > Luciferic and Ahrimanic beings."
                >
                > (Now which of us is playing a more real Anthroposophy?)
                >
                > I find it somewhat odd and strange even that a proponent of
                > Anthroposophy should be diverting any attention to apprending the
                > 'field' of the 8th sphere by way of the soul's inner perceptual
                > qualities, while clearly insisting that one should look for it
                through a
                > manifest image of the moon. All the time, basing himself on a
                document
                > which indicates the opposite.
                >
                > This is extremely odd indeed.
                >
                > Is it a sign of desperation?

                Not at all. If I take the time to post this material I expect that
                it should be given some consideration and working over for the sake
                of clarification. So, please don't jump to conclusions just yet;
                stay patient, humble, and show me some discipline. Let's review a
                bit. In fact, let's go back to where this all started, concerning
                the notes from the original Esoteric School (1904-14). These notes
                suggested that the Mahatmas were real guiding spiritual beings;
                beings of harmony and feeling, and that Steiner was guided by their
                communications, which effectively then makes them the communicators
                of spiritual science through his mediumship. Thus, these notes more
                than indicate a reverence for beings such as Koot Hoomi and Master
                Morya, and that Steiner was a medium on their behalf. And this is
                what I took issue with, as it is not the path that he took with
                regard to spiritual development in the first quarter of the 20th
                century.

                In the lecture course, "Occult Movement in the Nineteenth Century",
                this subject is quite intensively dealt with, particularly with
                regard to two mediums used by the occultists, i.e., AP Sinnett and
                HP Blavatsky. And both were mediums who channeled a discarnate
                being named John King, who would later take on the guise of Koot
                Hoomi as the Indian Avatar in her Adyar theosophy period. The
                important thing to know is that in both cases: 1) when HPB was
                channeling John King during her 'spiritualism' phase for the
                American brotherhood, and, 2) when she was 'saved' by the Indian
                occultists in order to do their work in support of reincarnation,
                the goals were the same. And that goal is to bring souls into the
                Eighth Sphere. That is what the occultists want, whether they are
                American or Indian; to build up the sphere where the Densified
                Imaginations exist so that one day it will be able to separate and
                take its place as a sphere amongst the seven sacred spheres.

                Thus, the subject shifted to this larger topic of the nature of the
                Eighth Sphere itself, and how it originated, and what can be
                perceived about it in both its outer and inner dimensions.
                Inwardly, it bears mineral substance meant for the earth, but since
                it is not visible without acquiring the old moon clairvoyance, it
                stands as an invisible realm that surrounds us on all sides. We are
                protected from its influences because as human beings we are
                mineralized through and through as the necessary requirement for
                earth evolution. Outwardly, it can be found centered in the
                physical, or Jehovian, Moon that now acts as a counterweight to the
                previous moon-earth connection. The Moon had to be disengaged from
                the Earth in order that Earth evolution could proceed without the
                coarseness that the moon's direct effects would have had on the
                human being. Mankind would have evolved spiritually, but would have
                become like a statue, bearing the moon's weight and coarse aspects.
                This had to be resolved in order that Earth evolution could proceed
                as planned in terms of the fourth condition of consciousness; the
                object-picture consciousness that now prevails because the earth has
                been mineralized, and the human being has been brought down to Earth
                fitted for this mineral existence through the work of Lucifer on the
                Astral Body, and Ahriman on the Etheric Body.

                Thus, Jehova as the seventh Sun Spirit or Elohim, goes with the Moon
                rather than the Sun, in order to effect the necessary neutralizing
                element that will disengage the Moon from the Earth, and make it the
                Earth's natural satellite carrying this counterweight influence in
                terms of mass and gravity needed for the mineral substance now
                existing on Earth. Many other things must occur as well, once
                Jehova goes to the Moon. The other six Sun Spirits, now on the Sun
                begin to amalgamate together, rather than remain individualized, and
                The Christ is formed as the Six-Fold Elohim, destined to incarnate
                as Word Made Flesh for the Earth evolution when the time came.
                Also, Lucifer and Ahriman as retarded Archangelic and Archai
                spirits, respectively, are given the task of bringing down both the
                mineral substance to earth, as well as actually incarnating in the
                human Astral and Etheric bodies, in order to bring Wisdom and Love,
                respectively into these bodies, as the product of their corrupting
                influences.

                The Planets also do their part. They were given the task of
                overworking the original Prototypes of the Physical Etheric, and
                Astral Bodies developed by the Hierarchies, in order that these
                bodies would be suited for the densified earth experience, now
                taking on the form of a mineral sphere.

                So, this is very complex stuff; many things not originally intended,
                like the work of the Nine Hierarchies in the Old Saturn, Old Sun,
                and Old Moon Spheres had to undergo revision in order to become what
                we are today for this Earth evolution and its goals for properly
                leading to the Fifth Sphere.

                I hope this acts as a brief review of this subject, and certainly
                more can be elaborated, and probably should.

                Steve
              • carol
                Well, it s funny how your voice seems to have changed.. I ll allow Robert to scrutinize this.
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 18, 2007
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                  Well, it's funny how your 'voice' seems to have changed..

                  I'll allow Robert to scrutinize this.


                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" organicethics@
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > "Even Robert Mason remembers reading these lectures some years
                  > ago, and
                  > > still thinks he remembers more than I who has them in hand."
                  > >
                  > > M. Steve. You may have them on hand, but that doesn't guarantee
                  > you in
                  > > any way sureness in your interpretation of it. In the instance that
                  > > Robert and I care to remember bits, it is also likely that we
                  > > incorporate alot of personal, inner reflective development into our
                  > > respective global approaches to these matters.
                  > >
                  > > I noticed that you accuse HPB of possessing an occultic vision
                  > which was
                  > > strickly:
                  > >
                  > > "sentiency vs. fully powered intellect."
                  > >
                  > > I'm not so sure a clear divisive line existed in her case nor in
                  > > Steiner's case, though admittedly, the respective mixes must have
                  > > differed in a pronounced way.
                  > >
                  > > In the Steiner lecture which you use to support your claims, the
                  > > following is stated:
                  > >
                  > > "It is through knowledge alone that an approach can be made to
                  > these
                  > > things-verily through knowledge alone. Therefore when we began the
                  > > periodical "Lucifer-Gnosis", the first article was necessarily on
                  > the
                  > > subject of Lucifer, in order that he should be rightly understood,
                  > in
                  > > order that it should be realized that inasmuch as he brings about
                  > > head-activity, he is a benefactor of mankind. But the
                  > counterweight must
                  > > also be there: "Love must be there as the counterweight. This was
                  > stated
                  > > in the very first article of the periodical, because at this point
                  > it
                  > > was essential to intervene. "
                  > >
                  > > How in heaven's name can 'Love' to the point that it acts as a
                  > > counterweight, be experienced solely in the mind?
                  > >
                  > > And then again, there is the following:
                  > >
                  > > "And if again and again it has been said that more caution should
                  > be
                  > > exercised in the domain of visionary clairvoyance, that validity
                  > should
                  > > be ascribed only to that clairvoyance which, in leading into the
                  > higher
                  > > worlds, excludes Lucifer and Ahriman-then it will be seen that
                  > > everything capable of bringing the soul into connection with the
                  > Eighth
                  > > Sphere must be rejected"
                  > >
                  > > Remember this?
                  > >
                  > > "Densified Imaginations" only perceptible to man
                  > using "Imaginative,
                  > > visionary clairvoyance" of which I most certainly imagine, has been
                  > > ensured a safe haven from the corruptable forces held by these same
                  > > Luciferic and Ahrimanic beings."
                  > >
                  > > (Now which of us is playing a more real Anthroposophy?)
                  > >
                  > > I find it somewhat odd and strange even that a proponent of
                  > > Anthroposophy should be diverting any attention to apprending the
                  > > 'field' of the 8th sphere by way of the soul's inner perceptual
                  > > qualities, while clearly insisting that one should look for it
                  > through a
                  > > manifest image of the moon. All the time, basing himself on a
                  > document
                  > > which indicates the opposite.
                  > >
                  > > This is extremely odd indeed.
                  > >
                  > > Is it a sign of desperation?
                  >
                  > Not at all. If I take the time to post this material I expect that
                  > it should be given some consideration and working over for the sake
                  > of clarification. So, please don't jump to conclusions just yet;
                  > stay patient, humble, and show me some discipline. Let's review a
                  > bit. In fact, let's go back to where this all started, concerning
                  > the notes from the original Esoteric School (1904-14). These notes
                  > suggested that the Mahatmas were real guiding spiritual beings;
                  > beings of harmony and feeling, and that Steiner was guided by their
                  > communications, which effectively then makes them the communicators
                  > of spiritual science through his mediumship. Thus, these notes more
                  > than indicate a reverence for beings such as Koot Hoomi and Master
                  > Morya, and that Steiner was a medium on their behalf. And this is
                  > what I took issue with, as it is not the path that he took with
                  > regard to spiritual development in the first quarter of the 20th
                  > century.
                  >
                  > In the lecture course, "Occult Movement in the Nineteenth Century",
                  > this subject is quite intensively dealt with, particularly with
                  > regard to two mediums used by the occultists, i.e., AP Sinnett and
                  > HP Blavatsky. And both were mediums who channeled a discarnate
                  > being named John King, who would later take on the guise of Koot
                  > Hoomi as the Indian Avatar in her Adyar theosophy period. The
                  > important thing to know is that in both cases: 1) when HPB was
                  > channeling John King during her 'spiritualism' phase for the
                  > American brotherhood, and, 2) when she was 'saved' by the Indian
                  > occultists in order to do their work in support of reincarnation,
                  > the goals were the same. And that goal is to bring souls into the
                  > Eighth Sphere. That is what the occultists want, whether they are
                  > American or Indian; to build up the sphere where the Densified
                  > Imaginations exist so that one day it will be able to separate and
                  > take its place as a sphere amongst the seven sacred spheres.
                  >
                  > Thus, the subject shifted to this larger topic of the nature of the
                  > Eighth Sphere itself, and how it originated, and what can be
                  > perceived about it in both its outer and inner dimensions.
                  > Inwardly, it bears mineral substance meant for the earth, but since
                  > it is not visible without acquiring the old moon clairvoyance, it
                  > stands as an invisible realm that surrounds us on all sides. We are
                  > protected from its influences because as human beings we are
                  > mineralized through and through as the necessary requirement for
                  > earth evolution. Outwardly, it can be found centered in the
                  > physical, or Jehovian, Moon that now acts as a counterweight to the
                  > previous moon-earth connection. The Moon had to be disengaged from
                  > the Earth in order that Earth evolution could proceed without the
                  > coarseness that the moon's direct effects would have had on the
                  > human being. Mankind would have evolved spiritually, but would have
                  > become like a statue, bearing the moon's weight and coarse aspects.
                  > This had to be resolved in order that Earth evolution could proceed
                  > as planned in terms of the fourth condition of consciousness; the
                  > object-picture consciousness that now prevails because the earth has
                  > been mineralized, and the human being has been brought down to Earth
                  > fitted for this mineral existence through the work of Lucifer on the
                  > Astral Body, and Ahriman on the Etheric Body.
                  >
                  > Thus, Jehova as the seventh Sun Spirit or Elohim, goes with the Moon
                  > rather than the Sun, in order to effect the necessary neutralizing
                  > element that will disengage the Moon from the Earth, and make it the
                  > Earth's natural satellite carrying this counterweight influence in
                  > terms of mass and gravity needed for the mineral substance now
                  > existing on Earth. Many other things must occur as well, once
                  > Jehova goes to the Moon. The other six Sun Spirits, now on the Sun
                  > begin to amalgamate together, rather than remain individualized, and
                  > The Christ is formed as the Six-Fold Elohim, destined to incarnate
                  > as Word Made Flesh for the Earth evolution when the time came.
                  > Also, Lucifer and Ahriman as retarded Archangelic and Archai
                  > spirits, respectively, are given the task of bringing down both the
                  > mineral substance to earth, as well as actually incarnating in the
                  > human Astral and Etheric bodies, in order to bring Wisdom and Love,
                  > respectively into these bodies, as the product of their corrupting
                  > influences.
                  >
                  > The Planets also do their part. They were given the task of
                  > overworking the original Prototypes of the Physical Etheric, and
                  > Astral Bodies developed by the Hierarchies, in order that these
                  > bodies would be suited for the densified earth experience, now
                  > taking on the form of a mineral sphere.
                  >
                  > So, this is very complex stuff; many things not originally intended,
                  > like the work of the Nine Hierarchies in the Old Saturn, Old Sun,
                  > and Old Moon Spheres had to undergo revision in order to become what
                  > we are today for this Earth evolution and its goals for properly
                  > leading to the Fifth Sphere.
                  >
                  > I hope this acts as a brief review of this subject, and certainly
                  > more can be elaborated, and probably should.
                  >
                  > Steve
                  >
                • Stephen Hale
                  ... So yes, pawn it off on Robert. Real good. Well, here s a little more corroboration from Steiner s classic, The Gospel of St. John , 18-31 May, 1908,
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 18, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Well, it's funny how your 'voice' seems to have changed..
                    >
                    > I'll allow Robert to scrutinize this.

                    So yes, pawn it off on Robert. Real good. Well, here's a little
                    more corroboration from Steiner's classic, "The Gospel of St. John",
                    18-31 May, 1908, Hamburg.

                    "When the ancient Moon had completed its evolution, there were seven
                    great beings of the kind who had progressed far enough to pour forth
                    love. These beings, called Sun Dwellers, are beings that can
                    enkindle love and permit love to flow into the earth. Man, as an
                    earth-dweller, would not have developed love, would not have been
                    able to receive it, had not the Sun-Dwellers sent down ripened
                    wisdom to them with the rays of light. Because the light of the sun
                    streams down upon the earth, love is developed there.Those beings
                    who are so exalted that they can pour forth love have made the sun
                    their scene of action. In the beginning of the earth evolution,
                    there was on the one side the childlike humanity which was to
                    receive love and become ready for the reception of the ego-and on
                    the other side there was the sun which separated from the earth and
                    rose to a more exalted existence.

                    Seven principle Spirits of Light, who at the same time were the
                    dispensing Spirits of Love, were able to evolve upon the sun. Only
                    six of them, however, made the sun their dwelling-place and what
                    streams down to us in the physical light of the sun contains within
                    it the spiritual force of love from these six Spirits of Light or,
                    as they are called in the Bible, the six Elohim. One separated from
                    the others and took a different path for the salvation of
                    humanity. He did not choose the sun but the moon for his abode.
                    And this Spirit of Light, who volunatrily renounced life upon the
                    sun and chose the moon instead, is none other than the one whom the
                    Old Testament calld "Jahve" or "Jehova". This Spirit of Light who
                    chose the moon as a dwelling-place is the one who from there pours
                    ripened wisdom down upon the earth, thus preparing the way for love."

                    "The night belongs to the moon and it belonged to the moon to a much
                    greater degree in that ancient time when the human being was not yet
                    able to receive the force of love in the direct rays of the sun. At
                    that time he received the reflected force of ripened wisdom from the
                    moonlight. This ripened wisdom streamed down upon him from the
                    moonlight during the time of night-consciousness . Therefore, Jahve
                    is called the Ruler of the Night who prepared humanity for the love
                    that was later to manifest during full waking-consciousnes s. During
                    the night, at certain times, the moon sends down to us the reflected
                    force of the sun, but it is the same light which also shines on us
                    directly from the sun. Thus in ancient times, Jahve or Jehova
                    reflected the force of matured wisdom, the force of the six Elohim,
                    and sent this force down into human beings, while they slept,
                    preparing them to become capable later, by degrees, of receiving the
                    power of love during waking-day consciousness.

                    We now know that for the humanity of primeval ages, night was much
                    longer and much more filled with activity than it is at present.
                    The astral body and ego were then outside of the physical and ether
                    bodies, the ego existing wholly within the astral world, and the
                    astral body sinking into the physical body from without, having,
                    however, its entire inner being still embedded in the divine-
                    spiritual world. Therefore, the sun could not shine directly upon
                    the human astral body and enkindle in it the force of love. Hence,
                    the moon, which reflects the sunlight, was active through Jahve or
                    Jehova. The moon is the symbol of Jahve or Jehova and the sun is
                    none other than the symbol for the Logos, which is the sum of the
                    other six Elohim. Thus, during long periods of time, in sleep-
                    consciousness, the force of love was being implanted in human beings
                    by Jehova, in a manner of which they were themselves unconscious.
                    In this way they were being made capable of experiencing the Logos,
                    of feeling the force of Its love. One can ask:-How was this
                    possible, how could that take place? We come now to the other side
                    of the mystery.

                    We have said that the human being was destined for self-conscious
                    love upon the earth. He must, therefore, have a leader, a teacher,
                    during his clear day-consciousness, a leader who stands before him
                    so that he can be perceived by him. Now it was only during the
                    night, in dim consciousness, that love could be impanted within the
                    human being. But little by little something happened, something
                    happened in full actuality which made it possible for him to see
                    outwardly, physically, the Being of Love itself. But how could that
                    occur? It could only take place, because the Being of Divine Love,
                    the Being of the Logos, became a man of flesh, whom men by means of
                    their physical senses could perceive upon the earth. It was because
                    mankind had developed to a conditon of perceiving by means of outer
                    senses that God, the Logos, had Himself to become a sense-being. He
                    had to appear in a physical body. This was fulfilled in Christ-
                    Jesus, and the historical appearance of Christ-Jesus means that the
                    forces of the six Elohim, or of the Logos, were incarnated in Jesus
                    of Nazareth at the beginning of our Christian era and were actually
                    present in Him in the visible world. That is the important thing.
                    The inner force of the sun, the force of the Logos-Love assumed a
                    physical human form in the body of Jesus of Nazareth. For, like an
                    external object, like an outer being, God had to appear to the
                    earthly, human sense-consciousness in a bodily form."
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