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Order in the house

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  • carol
    Gee, there s been strange things happening out there in the world, though as of late, things have quieted down a little at least in my area. People have had a
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 6, 2007

      Gee, there's been strange things happening out there in the world, though as of late, things have quieted down a little at least in my area. People have had a chance to experience the Christ in nature, they are content, fulfilled and more relaxed. Summer has furnished them with a few close to perfect weeks. They've had a chance to forget the constant subtle chaos and terror of the earlier weeks. Isn't it peculiar how the Christ Being LIVES within and as natural, organic, living harmony, and how Ahriman stirs terror and roars below the strata... And how everyone is furnished with relief and a realistic chance for bodily health when they can meet the Christ's untampered presence in the Etheric world. It's Love.  And it doesn't matter which religious impulse or race they belong to.

      I guess the great and mighty Michael Spirit must have wipped up a his own magical storm of soul forces, of late.

      With alot of us on hand,  jaw dropped, eyes glossy, awestruck with amazement.

      I wonder if that has anything to do with the unrest in this house, I mean, a delusional contributer and another to redefine Anthroposophy according to the needs of today's outward world...

      This is interesting. It's also interesting how Anthroposophy just works, along with everything and everyone else who are,  creating.

    • Stephen Hale
      ... I ... Anthroposophy ... works, ... Well Carol, I think your weather pattern went over to my side here the past few days, so you must be doing something
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 7, 2007
        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...>
        wrote:
        > I wonder if that has anything to do with the unrest in this house,
        I
        > mean, a delusional contributer and another to redefine
        Anthroposophy
        > according to the needs of today's outward world...
        >
        > This is interesting. It's also interesting how Anthroposophy just
        works,
        > along with everything and everyone else who are, creating.

        Well Carol, I think your weather pattern went over to my side here
        the past few days, so you must be doing something right. Now here
        is my chance to say something without getting on a soapbox declaring
        self-sacrifice and Michaelic courage for the cause of the Etheric
        Christ.- S

        "But the strength of the process varies in the different regions of
        our organism. We are diversely constituted; some of our organs are
        more perfect than others. The most of all is our organ of thinking,
        the brain and the skull, and there the battle of which I have spoken
        is the most vehement, precisely because this human head, this human
        brain, is fashioned as it is; and it is so fashioned because at this
        place in our body, Lucifer and Ahriman too, have been the most
        successful in wresting mineral substance from us. Hence it is
        precisely through the head that we can emancipate ourselves from our
        organism to the greatest extent. We can soar upwards in thoughts,
        we can distinguish between the good and the evil. And for that very
        reason, Lucifer and Ahriman have there been the most successful in
        wresting away substantiality; in the so-called noblest organ of man
        they have been able to wrest away the greatest amount of mineralized
        substantiality. This alchemy by which mineral substance is sent
        over into the Eighth Sphere is taking place all the time behind the
        scenes of our existence.-To begin with, I am simply communicating
        information; corroborations will emerge more and more clearly as our
        studies proceed."

        --Excerpted from "The Occult Movement in the Nineteenth Century",
        lecture 5, 18 October 1915, by Rudolf Steiner.
      • Stephen Hale
        So was Lazarus a poor beggar or a rich beggar? It is said that he came from a rich family who entertained Jesus and the disciples, and it is also said that he
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 7, 2007
          So was Lazarus a poor beggar or a rich beggar? It is said that he
          came from a rich family who entertained Jesus and the disciples, and
          it is also said that he was a beggar for the spirit who had dogs
          licking at his wounds, and thanking for the crumbs of mercy. From
          what I remember, it seems he had John the Baptist in his life, who
          was the epitome of aloneness. The one living in solitude in the
          wilderness on locusts and honey, wearing a camel-hair coat. He was
          the first to experience the Ego if I remember correctly. And I do.

          Aloneness goes with the territory because we have arrived at the
          sacred altar of our own individual being, all of us. It's an
          anthroposophical concept because it was given quite forthrightly at
          the dawn of the Consciousness Soul age. Now, whether one travels
          about or remains in one place makes no difference to the fact of
          aloneness within the family that surrounds us. The Christ Impulse
          is renewed generation after generation for this purpose; for 2500
          years now since Siddharta sat under that tree.

          Steve Hale

          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "avarohanam" <avarohanam@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > I'm going to be signing off here at some stage. I cannot predict
          the
          > timing :)
          >
          > There doesn't seem to be anything I can say that isn't twisted or
          > distorted or plumbed down to the depths in true Ahrimanic style.
          >
          > As I have said paradoxically this may not be the place for me to
          > discuss spiritual experiences at all or the etheric Christ. Its
          > certainly not a place I would feel comfortable sharing some of my
          > most profound and sacred experiences, as it stands at the moment.
          >
          > There are thousands of hours of experience.
          >
          > Steve often makes comments about me subbing and usubbing. Its
          > probably one of the things I like best about myself, is my ability
          > to stand alone.
          >
          > I found this interesting excert...but its probably not interesting
          > at all to anthros :)
          >
          >
          >
          > The first thing to realize is that whether you want or not, you
          are
          > alone. Aloneness is your very nature. You can try to forget it,
          you
          > can try not to be alone by making friends, having lovers, mixing
          in
          > the crowd... But whatever you do remains just on the surface. Deep
          > inside, your aloneness is unreachable, untouchable.
          > A strange accident happens to every human being: as he is born the
          > very situation of his birth begins in a family. And there is no
          > other way, because the human child is the weakest child in the
          whole
          > of existence.
          >
          > Other animals are born complete. A dog is going to remain a dog
          his
          > whole life, he is not going to evolve, grow. Yes, he will become
          > aged, old, but he will not become more intelligent, he will not
          > become more aware, he will not become enlightened. In that sense
          all
          > the animals remain exactly at the point of their birth; nothing
          > essential changes in them. Their death and their birth are
          > horizontal -- in one line.
          > Only man has the possibility of going vertical, upwards, not just
          > horizontal. Most of humanity behaves like other animals: life is
          > just growing old -- not growing up. Growing up and growing old are
          > totally different experiences.
          > Man is born in a family amongst human beings. From the very first
          > moment he is not alone; hence, he gets a certain psychology of
          > always remaining with people. In aloneness he starts feeling
          > scared... unknown fears. He is not exactly aware of what he is
          > afraid of, but as he moves out of the crowd something inside him
          > becomes uneasy. To be with others he feels cozy, at ease,
          > comfortable.
          >
          > It is because of this reason he never comes to know the beauty of
          > aloneness; the fear prevents him. Because he was born in a group
          he
          > remains part of a group, and as he grows in age he starts making
          new
          > groups, new associations, new friends. Already, existing
          > collectivities don't satisfy him: the nation, the religion, the
          > political party... He creates his own new associations: Rotary
          Club,
          > Lions Club. But all these strategies are just to avoid one thing:
          > never to be alone.
          > The whole life experience is of being together with people.
          > Aloneness seems almost like a death. In a way it is a death; it is
          > the death of the personality that you have created in the crowd.
          > That is a gift of others to you. The moment you move out of the
          > crowd you also move out of your personality.
          >
          > In the crowd you know exactly who you are: you know your name, you
          > know your degrees, you know your profession; you know everything
          > that is needed for your passport, your identity card. But the
          moment
          > you move out of the crowd, what is your identity, who are you?
          > Suddenly you become aware that you are not your name -- your name
          > was given to you. You are not your race -- what relationship has
          > race with your consciousness? Your heart is not Hindu or
          Mohammedan;
          > your being is not confined to any political boundaries of a
          nation;
          > your consciousness is not part of any organization or church. Who
          > are you?
          >
          > Suddenly your personality starts dispersing. This is the fear: the
          > death of the personality. Now you will have to discover freshly,
          you
          > will have to ask for the first time who you are. You will have to
          > start meditating on the fact: Who am I? -- and there is a fear
          that
          > you may not be at all. Perhaps you were nothing but a combination
          of
          > all the opinions of the crowd, that you were nothing but your
          > personality.
          >
          > Nobody wants to be nothing.
          > Nobody wants to be nobody.
          > And in fact everybody is a nobody.
          >
          > There is a very beautiful story...
          > Alice has reached Wonderland. She came to meet the king and the
          king
          > asked, "Alice, did you meet a messenger coming towards me?"
          > She said, "I met nobody."
          > The king said, "If you met nobody, why has he not arrived yet?"
          > Alice was very much puzzled. She said, "You are not understanding
          me
          > rightly. Nobody is nobody."
          > The king said, "That is obvious that nobody is nobody, but where
          is
          > he? He should have reached here by this time. It simply means
          nobody
          > walks slower than you."
          > And naturally Alice was very much annoyed and forgot that she is
          > talking to the king. She said, "Nobody walks faster than me."
          > Now the whole conversation goes on with that "nobody." She
          > understands that he is saying, "Nobody walks slower than you."
          > "... and I am a fast walker. I have come from the other world to
          > Wonderland, a small world -- and he is insulting me." Naturally
          she
          > retorts, "Nobody walks faster than me!"
          > The king said, "If that is right then why has he not arrived?"
          > And this way the discussion continues.
          >
          > Everybody is a nobody.
          > So the first problem for a disciple is to understand exactly the
          > nature of aloneness. It means nobodyness; it means dropping your
          > personality which is a gift to you by the crowd.
          > As you move off out of the crowd you cannot take that gift with
          you
          > in your aloneness. In your aloneness you will have to discover
          again
          > afresh, and nobody can give you the guarantee whether you will
          find
          > anybody inside or not.
          > Those who have reached to aloneness have found nobody there. I
          > really mean no body. No name, no form, but a pure presence, a pure
          > life, nameless, formless. This is exactly the true resurrection,
          and
          > it certainly needs courage. Only very courageous people have been
          > able to accept with joy their nobodyness, their nothingness. Their
          > nothingness is their pure being; it is a death and a resurrection
          > both.
          >
          > Just today Hasya was showing me a small, beautiful cartoon: Jesus
          > hanging on the cross, looking at the sky, is saying, "It would
          have
          > been better if alongside God the father I had Allah the uncle. It
          > would have been better; at least if God was not listening, Allah
          > might have helped."
          >
          > Having just God for his whole life he was very happy
          proclaiming, "I
          > am the only begotten son of God." And he never talked about God's
          > family, his brother, his wife, his other sons and daughters. In
          the
          > whole of eternity what has he been doing? He does not have a TV to
          > waste time, to pass time. He does not have any possibility of
          having
          > a movie hall. What does this poor fellow go on doing?
          >
          > It is a well-known fact that in poor countries the population goes
          > on exploding for the simple reason that the poor man has no other
          > free entertainment. The only free entertainment is to produce
          > children. Although it is in the long run very costly, right now
          > there is no ticket, no problem, no standing in the queue...
          >
          > What has God been doing for the whole eternity? He has created
          only
          > one son. Now on the cross he remembers that it would have been
          > better if God really had a few brothers, sisters, uncles. "I could
          > have asked help from somebody else if he is not listening to me."
          He
          > is praying and he is being angry saying, "Why have you forgotten
          me?
          > Have you given up on me?" -- but there is no answer.
          > He is waiting for the miracle. The whole crowd that has gathered
          to
          > see the miracle by and by started dispersing. It was too hot,
          > unnecessarily. Nothing is going to happen; if something was going
          to
          > happen it would have happened.
          > After six hours there were only three ladies left who were still
          > believing that a miracle may happen. One was Jesus' mother --
          > naturally, mothers go on believing that their child is a genius.
          > Every mother, without exception, believes that she has given birth
          > to a child which is a giant.
          >
          > Another woman who loved Jesus was a prostitute, Mary Magdalene.
          That
          > woman, although she was a prostitute, must have loved Jesus. Even
          > the disciples, the so-called apostles, who became second to Jesus
          in
          > importance in the history of Christianity, all twelve escaped just
          > out of fear of being caught and of being recognized -- because
          they
          > were always hanging around with Jesus, everywhere. You never can
          > believe the crowd: if they were caught, they might have been
          > crucified, if not crucified at least beaten, stoned to death. Only
          > three women were left.
          >
          > The third was another woman who loved Jesus. It was love that
          > remained in the last moments in the form of these three women. All
          > those disciples must have been with Jesus just in order to get
          into
          > paradise. It is always good to have good contacts, and you can't
          > find a better contact than the contact with the only begotten son
          of
          > God. Just behind him they will also be able to enter through the
          > gates of paradise. Their disciplehood was a kind of exploitation
          of
          > Jesus; hence there was no courage. It was cunning and clever, but
          > not courageous.
          >
          > Only love can be courageous.
          >
          > You are asking about aloneness and courage. Courage comes out of
          > love... Do you love yourself? Do you love this existence? Do you
          > love this beautiful life which is a gift? It has been given to you
          > without your being even ready for it, without your deserving it,
          > without your being worthy of it.
          > If you love this existence which has given life to you, which goes
          > on providing every moment life and nourishment to you, you will
          find
          > courage. And this courage will help you to stand alone like a
          cedar
          > of Lebanon, high -- reaching to the stars but alone.
          > In aloneness you will disappear as an ego and personality and you
          > will find yourself as life itself, deathless and eternal. Unless
          you
          > are capable of being alone your search for truth will remain a
          > failure.
          >
          > Your aloneness is your truth.
          > Your aloneness is your divineness.
          >
          > The function of the master is to help you to stand alone.
          Meditation
          > is just a strategy to take away your personality, your thoughts,
          > your mind, your identity with the body, and leave you absolutely
          > alone inside, just a living fire. And once you have found your
          > living fire, you will know all the joys and all the ecstasies that
          > human consciousness is capable of.
          >
          > The old woman watched her grandson eat his soup with the wrong
          > spoon, grasp his knife by the wrong end, eat the main course with
          > his hands, and pour tea into the saucer and blow on it.
          > "Has not watching your mother and father at the dinner table
          taught
          > you anything?" she asked.
          > "Yes," said the boy, chewing with his mouth open, "never to get
          > married."
          >
          > He has learned a great lesson: Remain alone.
          >
          > It is really very difficult to be with others, but we are
          accustomed
          > from our very birth to be with others. It may be miserable, it may
          > be a suffering, it may be a torture but we are accustomed; at
          least
          > it is well known.
          > One is afraid to step into the darkness beyond the territory, but
          > unless you go beyond the territory of the collective mask, you
          > cannot find yourself.
          >
          > Groucho Marx has made a beautiful statement for you to
          remember: "I
          > find television very educating. Every time somebody turns on the
          set
          > I go into the other room and read a book."
          >
          > The teacher of a class of ten-year-olds is too shy to conduct the
          > sex-education class and so she asks her class to make this a
          > homework project.
          > Little Hymie asks his father who mumbles something about a stork.
          > His grandmother said he came from a cabbage patch and his great-
          > grandmother blushes and whispers that children come from the great
          > ocean of existence.
          > The next day, little Hymie is called by the teacher to report on
          his
          > project. Little Hymie says to the teacher, "I'm afraid there is
          > something wrong in our family. Apparently nobody has made love for
          > three generations!"
          >
          > In fact, very few people have loved at all; they have pretended,
          > have been hypocrites deceiving not only others but have deceived
          > themselves too.
          > You can love authentically only when you are.
          > Right now you are only a part of a crowd, a cog in the wheel. How
          > can you love? -- because you are not. First be; first know
          yourself.
          > In your aloneness you will discover what it is to be. And out of
          > that awareness of your being love flows, and much more.
          >
          > Aloneness should be your only search.
          >
          > And it does not mean that you have to go to the mountains, you can
          > be alone in the marketplace. It is simply a question of being
          aware,
          > alert, watchful, remembering that you are only your watchfulness.
          > Then you are alone wherever you are. You may be in the crowd, you
          > may be in the mountains; it makes no difference, you are just the
          > same watchfulness. In the crowd you watch the crowd; in the
          > mountains you watch the mountains. With open eyes you watch
          > existence; with closed eyes you watch yourself.
          >
          > You are only one thing: the watcher.
          >
          > And this watcher is the greatest realization. This is your buddha
          > nature; this is your nature of enlightenment, of your awakening.
          > This should be your only discipline. Only this makes you a
          disciple:
          > this discipline of knowing your aloneness. Otherwise, what makes
          you
          > a disciple? You have been deceived on every point in life. You
          have
          > been told that to believe in a master makes you a disciple. That
          is
          > absolutely wrong; otherwise, everybody in the world is a disciple.
          > Somebody believes in Jesus, somebody believes in Buddha, somebody
          > believes in Krishna, somebody believes in Mahavira; everybody
          > believes in somebody but nobody is a disciple, because to be a
          > disciple does not mean to believe in a master. To be a disciple
          > means to learn the discipline of being your self, of being your
          true
          > self.
          >
          > In that experience is hidden the very treasure of life. In that
          > experience you become for the first time an emperor; otherwise you
          > will remain a beggar in the crowd. There are two kinds of beggars:
          > poor beggars and rich beggars, but they are all beggars. Even your
          > kings and your queens are beggars.
          > Only those people, very few people who have stood alone in their
          > being, in their clarity, in their light, who have found their own
          > light, who have found their own flowering, who have found their
          own
          > space they can call their home, their eternal home -- those few
          > people are the emperors. This whole universe is their empire. They
          > don't need to conquer it; it is already conquered.
          > By knowing yourself you have conquered it.
          >
        • Stephen Hale
          ... wrote: This alchemy by which mineral substance is sent over into the Eighth Sphere is taking place all the time behind the scenes of our
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 8, 2007
            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
            <sardisian01@...> wrote:
            "This alchemy by which mineral substance is sent over into the
            Eighth Sphere is taking place all the time behind the scenes of our
            existence.-To begin with, I am simply communicating information;
            corroborations will emerge more and more clearly as our studies
            proceed."
            --Excerpted from "The Occult Movement in the Nineteenth Century",
            lecture 5, 18 October 1915, by Rudolf Steiner.


            http://aa.usno.navy.mil/graphics/Moon_movie.gif

            "And so this Moon circles around as a globe of dense matter, solid,
            dense, indestructible. If you read carefully enough you will find
            that even the descriptions of the Moon given by physicists tally
            with this. Everything that was available on the Earth was drawn out
            and placed there in order that there should be enough physical
            matter incapable of being wrested away. When we look at the Moon, we
            see there in the Universe a substance far more intensely
            mineralized, far physically denser, than exists anywhere on the
            Earth, Jahve or Jehova, then, must be regarded as that Being who
            even in the physical domain has ensured that not all materiality can
            be drawn away by Lucifer and Ahriman."
            --op.cit.
          • Stephen Hale
            ... wrote: Okay folks, let s take a look at this again. Watch it closely for a minute or so. What do you see going on with the moon?
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 10, 2007
              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
              <sardisian01@...> wrote:

              Okay folks, let's take a look at this again. Watch it closely for a
              minute or so. What do you see going on with the moon? Here's a
              hint: it's the outer dimension, or aspect, of what this discourse
              has been referring to as the Eighth Sphere, or the realm of
              Densified Imaginations perceptible to atavistic clairvoyance. So
              yes, it is outwardly perceptible as well.

              > http://aa.usno.navy.mil/graphics/Moon_movie.gif
              >
              > "And so this Moon circles around as a globe of dense matter,
              solid,
              > dense, indestructible. If you read carefully enough you will find
              > that even the descriptions of the Moon given by physicists tally
              > with this. Everything that was available on the Earth was drawn
              out
              > and placed there in order that there should be enough physical
              > matter incapable of being wrested away. When we look at the Moon,
              we
              > see there in the Universe a substance far more intensely
              > mineralized, far physically denser, than exists anywhere on the
              > Earth, Jahve or Jehova, then, must be regarded as that Being who
              > even in the physical domain has ensured that not all materiality
              can
              > be drawn away by Lucifer and Ahriman."
              > --op.cit.
              >
            • Stephen Hale
              ... a ... http://aa.usno.navy.mil/graphics/Moon_phases.jpg http://aa.usno.navy.mil/graphics/Moon_movie.gif I have added the 28 recognized angles of
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 17, 2007
                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                <sardisian01@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                > <sardisian01@> wrote:
                >
                > Okay folks, let's take a look at this again. Watch it closely for
                a
                > minute or so. What do you see going on with the moon? Here's a
                > hint: it's the outer dimension, or aspect, of what this discourse
                > has been referring to as the Eighth Sphere, or the realm of
                > Densified Imaginations perceptible to atavistic clairvoyance. So
                > yes, it is outwardly perceptible as well.

                http://aa.usno.navy.mil/graphics/Moon_phases.jpg

                http://aa.usno.navy.mil/graphics/Moon_movie.gif

                I have added the 28 recognized angles of representation to this
                movie, just to slow it down. Still, the movie must be watched for
                the full effect.

                Steve
              • Stephen Hale
                So again, what makes the dark shadow take the form of a curve the closer it gets to the end of the light? It can t be due to angulation because a curve
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 17, 2007
                  So again, what makes the dark shadow take the form of a curve the
                  closer it gets to the end of the light? It can't be due to
                  angulation because a curve denotes a sphere; and a sphere is
                  definitely not an angle. And just watch how the beginning also
                  starts as a curve, until the light diffuses it.

                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                  <sardisian01@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                  > <sardisian01@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                  > > <sardisian01@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Okay folks, let's take a look at this again. Watch it closely
                  for
                  > a
                  > > minute or so. What do you see going on with the moon? Here's a
                  > > hint: it's the outer dimension, or aspect, of what this
                  discourse
                  > > has been referring to as the Eighth Sphere, or the realm of
                  > > Densified Imaginations perceptible to atavistic clairvoyance.
                  So
                  > > yes, it is outwardly perceptible as well.
                  >
                  > http://aa.usno.navy.mil/graphics/Moon_phases.jpg
                  >
                  > http://aa.usno.navy.mil/graphics/Moon_movie.gif
                  >
                  > I have added the 28 recognized angles of representation to this
                  > movie, just to slow it down. Still, the movie must be watched for
                  > the full effect.
                  >
                  > Steve
                  >
                • carol
                  Even Robert Mason remembers reading these lectures some years ago, and still thinks he remembers more than I who has them in hand. M. Steve. You may have
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 18, 2007

                    "Even Robert Mason remembers reading these lectures some years ago, and still thinks he remembers more than I who has them in hand."

                    M. Steve. You may have them on hand, but that doesn't guarantee you in any way sureness in your interpretation of it. In the instance that Robert and I care to remember bits, it is also likely that we incorporate alot of personal, inner reflective development into our respective global approaches to these matters.

                    I noticed that you accuse HPB of possessing an occultic vision which was strickly:

                    "sentiency vs. fully powered intellect."

                    I'm not so sure a clear divisive line existed in her case nor in Steiner's case, though admittedly, the respective mixes must have differed in a pronounced way.

                    In the Steiner lecture which you use to support your claims, the following is stated:

                    "It is through knowledge alone that an approach can be made to these things-verily through knowledge alone. Therefore when we began the periodical "Lucifer-Gnosis", the first article was necessarily on the subject of Lucifer, in order that he should be rightly understood, in order that it should be realized that inasmuch as he brings about head-activity, he is a benefactor of mankind. But the counterweight must also be there: "Love must be there as the counterweight. This was stated in the very first article of the periodical, because at this point it was essential to intervene. "

                    How in heaven's name can 'Love' to the point that it acts as a counterweight, be experienced solely in the mind?

                    And then again, there is the following:

                    "And if again and again it has been said that more caution should be exercised in the domain of visionary clairvoyance, that validity should be ascribed only to that clairvoyance which, in leading into the higher worlds, excludes Lucifer and Ahriman-then it will be seen that everything capable of bringing the soul into connection with the Eighth Sphere must be rejected"

                    Remember this?

                    "Densified Imaginations" only perceptible to man using "Imaginative, visionary clairvoyance" of which I most certainly imagine, has been ensured a safe haven from the corruptable forces held by these same Luciferic and Ahrimanic beings."

                    (Now which of us is playing a more real Anthroposophy?)

                    I find it somewhat odd and strange even that a proponent of Anthroposophy should be diverting any attention to apprending the 'field' of the 8th sphere by way of the soul's inner perceptual qualities, while clearly insisting that one should look for it through a manifest image of the moon. All the time, basing himself on a document which indicates the opposite.

                    This is extremely odd indeed.

                    Is it a sign of desperation?

                     




                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > So again, what makes the dark shadow take the form of a curve the
                    > closer it gets to the end of the light? It can't be due to
                    > angulation because a curve denotes a sphere; and a sphere is
                    > definitely not an angle. And just watch how the beginning also
                    > starts as a curve, until the light diffuses it.
                    >
                    > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                    > sardisian01@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                    > > <sardisian01@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                    > > > <sardisian01@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Okay folks, let's take a look at this again. Watch it closely
                    > for
                    > > a
                    > > > minute or so. What do you see going on with the moon? Here's a
                    > > > hint: it's the outer dimension, or aspect, of what this
                    > discourse
                    > > > has been referring to as the Eighth Sphere, or the realm of
                    > > > Densified Imaginations perceptible to atavistic clairvoyance.
                    > So
                    > > > yes, it is outwardly perceptible as well.
                    > >
                    > > http://aa.usno.navy.mil/graphics/Moon_phases.jpg
                    > >
                    > > http://aa.usno.navy.mil/graphics/Moon_movie.gif
                    > >
                    > > I have added the 28 recognized angles of representation to this
                    > > movie, just to slow it down. Still, the movie must be watched for
                    > > the full effect.
                    > >
                    > > Steve
                    > >
                    >

                  • Stephen Hale
                    ... ago, and ... you in ... which was ... these ... the ... in ... counterweight must ... stated ... it ... be ... should ... higher ... Eighth ... using
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 18, 2007
                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > "Even Robert Mason remembers reading these lectures some years
                      ago, and
                      > still thinks he remembers more than I who has them in hand."
                      >
                      > M. Steve. You may have them on hand, but that doesn't guarantee
                      you in
                      > any way sureness in your interpretation of it. In the instance that
                      > Robert and I care to remember bits, it is also likely that we
                      > incorporate alot of personal, inner reflective development into our
                      > respective global approaches to these matters.
                      >
                      > I noticed that you accuse HPB of possessing an occultic vision
                      which was
                      > strickly:
                      >
                      > "sentiency vs. fully powered intellect."
                      >
                      > I'm not so sure a clear divisive line existed in her case nor in
                      > Steiner's case, though admittedly, the respective mixes must have
                      > differed in a pronounced way.
                      >
                      > In the Steiner lecture which you use to support your claims, the
                      > following is stated:
                      >
                      > "It is through knowledge alone that an approach can be made to
                      these
                      > things-verily through knowledge alone. Therefore when we began the
                      > periodical "Lucifer-Gnosis", the first article was necessarily on
                      the
                      > subject of Lucifer, in order that he should be rightly understood,
                      in
                      > order that it should be realized that inasmuch as he brings about
                      > head-activity, he is a benefactor of mankind. But the
                      counterweight must
                      > also be there: "Love must be there as the counterweight. This was
                      stated
                      > in the very first article of the periodical, because at this point
                      it
                      > was essential to intervene. "
                      >
                      > How in heaven's name can 'Love' to the point that it acts as a
                      > counterweight, be experienced solely in the mind?
                      >
                      > And then again, there is the following:
                      >
                      > "And if again and again it has been said that more caution should
                      be
                      > exercised in the domain of visionary clairvoyance, that validity
                      should
                      > be ascribed only to that clairvoyance which, in leading into the
                      higher
                      > worlds, excludes Lucifer and Ahriman-then it will be seen that
                      > everything capable of bringing the soul into connection with the
                      Eighth
                      > Sphere must be rejected"
                      >
                      > Remember this?
                      >
                      > "Densified Imaginations" only perceptible to man
                      using "Imaginative,
                      > visionary clairvoyance" of which I most certainly imagine, has been
                      > ensured a safe haven from the corruptable forces held by these same
                      > Luciferic and Ahrimanic beings."
                      >
                      > (Now which of us is playing a more real Anthroposophy?)
                      >
                      > I find it somewhat odd and strange even that a proponent of
                      > Anthroposophy should be diverting any attention to apprending the
                      > 'field' of the 8th sphere by way of the soul's inner perceptual
                      > qualities, while clearly insisting that one should look for it
                      through a
                      > manifest image of the moon. All the time, basing himself on a
                      document
                      > which indicates the opposite.
                      >
                      > This is extremely odd indeed.
                      >
                      > Is it a sign of desperation?

                      Not at all. If I take the time to post this material I expect that
                      it should be given some consideration and working over for the sake
                      of clarification. So, please don't jump to conclusions just yet;
                      stay patient, humble, and show me some discipline. Let's review a
                      bit. In fact, let's go back to where this all started, concerning
                      the notes from the original Esoteric School (1904-14). These notes
                      suggested that the Mahatmas were real guiding spiritual beings;
                      beings of harmony and feeling, and that Steiner was guided by their
                      communications, which effectively then makes them the communicators
                      of spiritual science through his mediumship. Thus, these notes more
                      than indicate a reverence for beings such as Koot Hoomi and Master
                      Morya, and that Steiner was a medium on their behalf. And this is
                      what I took issue with, as it is not the path that he took with
                      regard to spiritual development in the first quarter of the 20th
                      century.

                      In the lecture course, "Occult Movement in the Nineteenth Century",
                      this subject is quite intensively dealt with, particularly with
                      regard to two mediums used by the occultists, i.e., AP Sinnett and
                      HP Blavatsky. And both were mediums who channeled a discarnate
                      being named John King, who would later take on the guise of Koot
                      Hoomi as the Indian Avatar in her Adyar theosophy period. The
                      important thing to know is that in both cases: 1) when HPB was
                      channeling John King during her 'spiritualism' phase for the
                      American brotherhood, and, 2) when she was 'saved' by the Indian
                      occultists in order to do their work in support of reincarnation,
                      the goals were the same. And that goal is to bring souls into the
                      Eighth Sphere. That is what the occultists want, whether they are
                      American or Indian; to build up the sphere where the Densified
                      Imaginations exist so that one day it will be able to separate and
                      take its place as a sphere amongst the seven sacred spheres.

                      Thus, the subject shifted to this larger topic of the nature of the
                      Eighth Sphere itself, and how it originated, and what can be
                      perceived about it in both its outer and inner dimensions.
                      Inwardly, it bears mineral substance meant for the earth, but since
                      it is not visible without acquiring the old moon clairvoyance, it
                      stands as an invisible realm that surrounds us on all sides. We are
                      protected from its influences because as human beings we are
                      mineralized through and through as the necessary requirement for
                      earth evolution. Outwardly, it can be found centered in the
                      physical, or Jehovian, Moon that now acts as a counterweight to the
                      previous moon-earth connection. The Moon had to be disengaged from
                      the Earth in order that Earth evolution could proceed without the
                      coarseness that the moon's direct effects would have had on the
                      human being. Mankind would have evolved spiritually, but would have
                      become like a statue, bearing the moon's weight and coarse aspects.
                      This had to be resolved in order that Earth evolution could proceed
                      as planned in terms of the fourth condition of consciousness; the
                      object-picture consciousness that now prevails because the earth has
                      been mineralized, and the human being has been brought down to Earth
                      fitted for this mineral existence through the work of Lucifer on the
                      Astral Body, and Ahriman on the Etheric Body.

                      Thus, Jehova as the seventh Sun Spirit or Elohim, goes with the Moon
                      rather than the Sun, in order to effect the necessary neutralizing
                      element that will disengage the Moon from the Earth, and make it the
                      Earth's natural satellite carrying this counterweight influence in
                      terms of mass and gravity needed for the mineral substance now
                      existing on Earth. Many other things must occur as well, once
                      Jehova goes to the Moon. The other six Sun Spirits, now on the Sun
                      begin to amalgamate together, rather than remain individualized, and
                      The Christ is formed as the Six-Fold Elohim, destined to incarnate
                      as Word Made Flesh for the Earth evolution when the time came.
                      Also, Lucifer and Ahriman as retarded Archangelic and Archai
                      spirits, respectively, are given the task of bringing down both the
                      mineral substance to earth, as well as actually incarnating in the
                      human Astral and Etheric bodies, in order to bring Wisdom and Love,
                      respectively into these bodies, as the product of their corrupting
                      influences.

                      The Planets also do their part. They were given the task of
                      overworking the original Prototypes of the Physical Etheric, and
                      Astral Bodies developed by the Hierarchies, in order that these
                      bodies would be suited for the densified earth experience, now
                      taking on the form of a mineral sphere.

                      So, this is very complex stuff; many things not originally intended,
                      like the work of the Nine Hierarchies in the Old Saturn, Old Sun,
                      and Old Moon Spheres had to undergo revision in order to become what
                      we are today for this Earth evolution and its goals for properly
                      leading to the Fifth Sphere.

                      I hope this acts as a brief review of this subject, and certainly
                      more can be elaborated, and probably should.

                      Steve
                    • carol
                      Well, it s funny how your voice seems to have changed.. I ll allow Robert to scrutinize this.
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 18, 2007
                        Well, it's funny how your 'voice' seems to have changed..

                        I'll allow Robert to scrutinize this.


                        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" organicethics@
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > "Even Robert Mason remembers reading these lectures some years
                        > ago, and
                        > > still thinks he remembers more than I who has them in hand."
                        > >
                        > > M. Steve. You may have them on hand, but that doesn't guarantee
                        > you in
                        > > any way sureness in your interpretation of it. In the instance that
                        > > Robert and I care to remember bits, it is also likely that we
                        > > incorporate alot of personal, inner reflective development into our
                        > > respective global approaches to these matters.
                        > >
                        > > I noticed that you accuse HPB of possessing an occultic vision
                        > which was
                        > > strickly:
                        > >
                        > > "sentiency vs. fully powered intellect."
                        > >
                        > > I'm not so sure a clear divisive line existed in her case nor in
                        > > Steiner's case, though admittedly, the respective mixes must have
                        > > differed in a pronounced way.
                        > >
                        > > In the Steiner lecture which you use to support your claims, the
                        > > following is stated:
                        > >
                        > > "It is through knowledge alone that an approach can be made to
                        > these
                        > > things-verily through knowledge alone. Therefore when we began the
                        > > periodical "Lucifer-Gnosis", the first article was necessarily on
                        > the
                        > > subject of Lucifer, in order that he should be rightly understood,
                        > in
                        > > order that it should be realized that inasmuch as he brings about
                        > > head-activity, he is a benefactor of mankind. But the
                        > counterweight must
                        > > also be there: "Love must be there as the counterweight. This was
                        > stated
                        > > in the very first article of the periodical, because at this point
                        > it
                        > > was essential to intervene. "
                        > >
                        > > How in heaven's name can 'Love' to the point that it acts as a
                        > > counterweight, be experienced solely in the mind?
                        > >
                        > > And then again, there is the following:
                        > >
                        > > "And if again and again it has been said that more caution should
                        > be
                        > > exercised in the domain of visionary clairvoyance, that validity
                        > should
                        > > be ascribed only to that clairvoyance which, in leading into the
                        > higher
                        > > worlds, excludes Lucifer and Ahriman-then it will be seen that
                        > > everything capable of bringing the soul into connection with the
                        > Eighth
                        > > Sphere must be rejected"
                        > >
                        > > Remember this?
                        > >
                        > > "Densified Imaginations" only perceptible to man
                        > using "Imaginative,
                        > > visionary clairvoyance" of which I most certainly imagine, has been
                        > > ensured a safe haven from the corruptable forces held by these same
                        > > Luciferic and Ahrimanic beings."
                        > >
                        > > (Now which of us is playing a more real Anthroposophy?)
                        > >
                        > > I find it somewhat odd and strange even that a proponent of
                        > > Anthroposophy should be diverting any attention to apprending the
                        > > 'field' of the 8th sphere by way of the soul's inner perceptual
                        > > qualities, while clearly insisting that one should look for it
                        > through a
                        > > manifest image of the moon. All the time, basing himself on a
                        > document
                        > > which indicates the opposite.
                        > >
                        > > This is extremely odd indeed.
                        > >
                        > > Is it a sign of desperation?
                        >
                        > Not at all. If I take the time to post this material I expect that
                        > it should be given some consideration and working over for the sake
                        > of clarification. So, please don't jump to conclusions just yet;
                        > stay patient, humble, and show me some discipline. Let's review a
                        > bit. In fact, let's go back to where this all started, concerning
                        > the notes from the original Esoteric School (1904-14). These notes
                        > suggested that the Mahatmas were real guiding spiritual beings;
                        > beings of harmony and feeling, and that Steiner was guided by their
                        > communications, which effectively then makes them the communicators
                        > of spiritual science through his mediumship. Thus, these notes more
                        > than indicate a reverence for beings such as Koot Hoomi and Master
                        > Morya, and that Steiner was a medium on their behalf. And this is
                        > what I took issue with, as it is not the path that he took with
                        > regard to spiritual development in the first quarter of the 20th
                        > century.
                        >
                        > In the lecture course, "Occult Movement in the Nineteenth Century",
                        > this subject is quite intensively dealt with, particularly with
                        > regard to two mediums used by the occultists, i.e., AP Sinnett and
                        > HP Blavatsky. And both were mediums who channeled a discarnate
                        > being named John King, who would later take on the guise of Koot
                        > Hoomi as the Indian Avatar in her Adyar theosophy period. The
                        > important thing to know is that in both cases: 1) when HPB was
                        > channeling John King during her 'spiritualism' phase for the
                        > American brotherhood, and, 2) when she was 'saved' by the Indian
                        > occultists in order to do their work in support of reincarnation,
                        > the goals were the same. And that goal is to bring souls into the
                        > Eighth Sphere. That is what the occultists want, whether they are
                        > American or Indian; to build up the sphere where the Densified
                        > Imaginations exist so that one day it will be able to separate and
                        > take its place as a sphere amongst the seven sacred spheres.
                        >
                        > Thus, the subject shifted to this larger topic of the nature of the
                        > Eighth Sphere itself, and how it originated, and what can be
                        > perceived about it in both its outer and inner dimensions.
                        > Inwardly, it bears mineral substance meant for the earth, but since
                        > it is not visible without acquiring the old moon clairvoyance, it
                        > stands as an invisible realm that surrounds us on all sides. We are
                        > protected from its influences because as human beings we are
                        > mineralized through and through as the necessary requirement for
                        > earth evolution. Outwardly, it can be found centered in the
                        > physical, or Jehovian, Moon that now acts as a counterweight to the
                        > previous moon-earth connection. The Moon had to be disengaged from
                        > the Earth in order that Earth evolution could proceed without the
                        > coarseness that the moon's direct effects would have had on the
                        > human being. Mankind would have evolved spiritually, but would have
                        > become like a statue, bearing the moon's weight and coarse aspects.
                        > This had to be resolved in order that Earth evolution could proceed
                        > as planned in terms of the fourth condition of consciousness; the
                        > object-picture consciousness that now prevails because the earth has
                        > been mineralized, and the human being has been brought down to Earth
                        > fitted for this mineral existence through the work of Lucifer on the
                        > Astral Body, and Ahriman on the Etheric Body.
                        >
                        > Thus, Jehova as the seventh Sun Spirit or Elohim, goes with the Moon
                        > rather than the Sun, in order to effect the necessary neutralizing
                        > element that will disengage the Moon from the Earth, and make it the
                        > Earth's natural satellite carrying this counterweight influence in
                        > terms of mass and gravity needed for the mineral substance now
                        > existing on Earth. Many other things must occur as well, once
                        > Jehova goes to the Moon. The other six Sun Spirits, now on the Sun
                        > begin to amalgamate together, rather than remain individualized, and
                        > The Christ is formed as the Six-Fold Elohim, destined to incarnate
                        > as Word Made Flesh for the Earth evolution when the time came.
                        > Also, Lucifer and Ahriman as retarded Archangelic and Archai
                        > spirits, respectively, are given the task of bringing down both the
                        > mineral substance to earth, as well as actually incarnating in the
                        > human Astral and Etheric bodies, in order to bring Wisdom and Love,
                        > respectively into these bodies, as the product of their corrupting
                        > influences.
                        >
                        > The Planets also do their part. They were given the task of
                        > overworking the original Prototypes of the Physical Etheric, and
                        > Astral Bodies developed by the Hierarchies, in order that these
                        > bodies would be suited for the densified earth experience, now
                        > taking on the form of a mineral sphere.
                        >
                        > So, this is very complex stuff; many things not originally intended,
                        > like the work of the Nine Hierarchies in the Old Saturn, Old Sun,
                        > and Old Moon Spheres had to undergo revision in order to become what
                        > we are today for this Earth evolution and its goals for properly
                        > leading to the Fifth Sphere.
                        >
                        > I hope this acts as a brief review of this subject, and certainly
                        > more can be elaborated, and probably should.
                        >
                        > Steve
                        >
                      • Stephen Hale
                        ... So yes, pawn it off on Robert. Real good. Well, here s a little more corroboration from Steiner s classic, The Gospel of St. John , 18-31 May, 1908,
                        Message 11 of 11 , Aug 18, 2007
                          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > Well, it's funny how your 'voice' seems to have changed..
                          >
                          > I'll allow Robert to scrutinize this.

                          So yes, pawn it off on Robert. Real good. Well, here's a little
                          more corroboration from Steiner's classic, "The Gospel of St. John",
                          18-31 May, 1908, Hamburg.

                          "When the ancient Moon had completed its evolution, there were seven
                          great beings of the kind who had progressed far enough to pour forth
                          love. These beings, called Sun Dwellers, are beings that can
                          enkindle love and permit love to flow into the earth. Man, as an
                          earth-dweller, would not have developed love, would not have been
                          able to receive it, had not the Sun-Dwellers sent down ripened
                          wisdom to them with the rays of light. Because the light of the sun
                          streams down upon the earth, love is developed there.Those beings
                          who are so exalted that they can pour forth love have made the sun
                          their scene of action. In the beginning of the earth evolution,
                          there was on the one side the childlike humanity which was to
                          receive love and become ready for the reception of the ego-and on
                          the other side there was the sun which separated from the earth and
                          rose to a more exalted existence.

                          Seven principle Spirits of Light, who at the same time were the
                          dispensing Spirits of Love, were able to evolve upon the sun. Only
                          six of them, however, made the sun their dwelling-place and what
                          streams down to us in the physical light of the sun contains within
                          it the spiritual force of love from these six Spirits of Light or,
                          as they are called in the Bible, the six Elohim. One separated from
                          the others and took a different path for the salvation of
                          humanity. He did not choose the sun but the moon for his abode.
                          And this Spirit of Light, who volunatrily renounced life upon the
                          sun and chose the moon instead, is none other than the one whom the
                          Old Testament calld "Jahve" or "Jehova". This Spirit of Light who
                          chose the moon as a dwelling-place is the one who from there pours
                          ripened wisdom down upon the earth, thus preparing the way for love."

                          "The night belongs to the moon and it belonged to the moon to a much
                          greater degree in that ancient time when the human being was not yet
                          able to receive the force of love in the direct rays of the sun. At
                          that time he received the reflected force of ripened wisdom from the
                          moonlight. This ripened wisdom streamed down upon him from the
                          moonlight during the time of night-consciousness . Therefore, Jahve
                          is called the Ruler of the Night who prepared humanity for the love
                          that was later to manifest during full waking-consciousnes s. During
                          the night, at certain times, the moon sends down to us the reflected
                          force of the sun, but it is the same light which also shines on us
                          directly from the sun. Thus in ancient times, Jahve or Jehova
                          reflected the force of matured wisdom, the force of the six Elohim,
                          and sent this force down into human beings, while they slept,
                          preparing them to become capable later, by degrees, of receiving the
                          power of love during waking-day consciousness.

                          We now know that for the humanity of primeval ages, night was much
                          longer and much more filled with activity than it is at present.
                          The astral body and ego were then outside of the physical and ether
                          bodies, the ego existing wholly within the astral world, and the
                          astral body sinking into the physical body from without, having,
                          however, its entire inner being still embedded in the divine-
                          spiritual world. Therefore, the sun could not shine directly upon
                          the human astral body and enkindle in it the force of love. Hence,
                          the moon, which reflects the sunlight, was active through Jahve or
                          Jehova. The moon is the symbol of Jahve or Jehova and the sun is
                          none other than the symbol for the Logos, which is the sum of the
                          other six Elohim. Thus, during long periods of time, in sleep-
                          consciousness, the force of love was being implanted in human beings
                          by Jehova, in a manner of which they were themselves unconscious.
                          In this way they were being made capable of experiencing the Logos,
                          of feeling the force of Its love. One can ask:-How was this
                          possible, how could that take place? We come now to the other side
                          of the mystery.

                          We have said that the human being was destined for self-conscious
                          love upon the earth. He must, therefore, have a leader, a teacher,
                          during his clear day-consciousness, a leader who stands before him
                          so that he can be perceived by him. Now it was only during the
                          night, in dim consciousness, that love could be impanted within the
                          human being. But little by little something happened, something
                          happened in full actuality which made it possible for him to see
                          outwardly, physically, the Being of Love itself. But how could that
                          occur? It could only take place, because the Being of Divine Love,
                          the Being of the Logos, became a man of flesh, whom men by means of
                          their physical senses could perceive upon the earth. It was because
                          mankind had developed to a conditon of perceiving by means of outer
                          senses that God, the Logos, had Himself to become a sense-being. He
                          had to appear in a physical body. This was fulfilled in Christ-
                          Jesus, and the historical appearance of Christ-Jesus means that the
                          forces of the six Elohim, or of the Logos, were incarnated in Jesus
                          of Nazareth at the beginning of our Christian era and were actually
                          present in Him in the visible world. That is the important thing.
                          The inner force of the sun, the force of the Logos-Love assumed a
                          physical human form in the body of Jesus of Nazareth. For, like an
                          external object, like an outer being, God had to appear to the
                          earthly, human sense-consciousness in a bodily form."
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