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Re: The Fabrication of Terror

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  • Stephen Hale
    ... culture. Steiner may have said it in a more digestible form, but at the moment there is no longer a division in terms of space or distance, since things
    Message 1 of 18 , Jun 4, 2007
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      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria <gloriabjork@...> wrote:
      >
      > Simply put, I see too much complacency in North American's
      culture. Steiner may have said it in a more digestible form, but at
      the moment there is no longer a division in terms of space or
      distance, since things (and thoughts) have tended to become pretty
      much global. You only need to go to any interesting city of Europe
      in the summer, and watch the herds of North American tourists
      wandering up and down the roads. It is apparent that the exchanges
      have become more overt, and so the giving and taking. Under the
      current conditions of globalization, outsourcing, offshoring and the
      like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should utilize the
      perception of Steiner - who lived in the century before the last -
      as a measure to redefine the current necessity for awakening that
      underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going
      through. Before it may turn too late.
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > -Gloria

      There are spiritual challenges that exist in America that are
      unique. Having a war on terror commence in spite of hundreds of
      thousands of protesters against it, means both that people are very
      actively against this evil, with its mounting evidence that it was
      caused by dark adversarial powers wearing suits, and also that
      protestation doesn't really mean much in the outer sense when we
      have a president who says: "see, this is what it means to be an
      American; freedom to protest and speak out. This is what we have
      here today."! "But we're still going in; we have to in order to
      disable those WMD's, and bring Sadam Hussein down." So, thanks for
      protesting but no dice.

      In certain respects, America is a haven for evil forces coming up
      from the sub-earthly domains. This continent possessed an
      extraordinary amount of magnetic power, just as the Eastern regions
      have a preponderance of electrical forces. Expressed spiritually,
      these represent Ahriman and Lucifer, respectively. America is
      unique also because it is populated most largely by Middle and
      Western Europeans for the past 400 years, leaving its native
      population largely unknown and mostly extinct today, in favor of
      this European migration and population. Thus, modern American
      culture has its roots in Europe in this fifth epoch, where the fifth
      sub-culture represents Anglo-Saxon and Teutonic heritage.

      So, this is what comprises the mainstream of America today. Little
      regard is given to just who, and where from, these original native
      Americans came from, and how they happened to be here for 10,000
      years before the colonies from Europe began coming here in 1607.
      Present day America is proud of its cultural heritage, which is
      exclusive to any knowledge or interest in the source of these first
      Americans. But, a thousand years before the first colony was
      settled at Jamestown, a great deal of interest and knowledge of
      these people's roots existed, and also the awareness of the presence
      of ahrimanically-oriented magnetic force sufficient enough to be the
      cause of organic illnesses. And so, early European studies of the
      causes of organic illnesses were made by way of passage to America
      on Viking ships in the seventh and eighth centuries. These were the
      very first Europeans to come here, a thousand years before John
      Smith; aboard Norwegian ships rowed by Vikings. They came to study
      the red-skinned race which populated this country, and who were
      entirely isolated from any cultural influence from outside.

      Modern medicine is based on these early studies, which were taken
      back to Europe for further development. And it was determined that
      the cause of organic illnesses is due to ahriman taking a certain
      possession of the physical body just before birth, and working there
      on an instinctive level. So as can readily be seen today,
      American's suffer from an ever-increasing array of physical
      disorders of the organic kind, one of the major symptoms of which is
      obesity. Americans are also prone to other debilitating influences
      of the sensory kind, designed to undermine the power of active
      intellect and concentration, which further affects a general kind of
      sleepy, non-attentive stupor in people. And this all undermines
      potential, and serves to make an automaton out of what is
      ostenstibly supposed to be a free and evolving human being.

      Ahriman proliferates in America, where his father also resides. His
      name is Asuras.

      Steve
    • carol
      Under the current conditions of globalization, outsourcing, offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should utilize the perception of
      Message 2 of 18 , Jun 4, 2007
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        "Under the current conditions of globalization, outsourcing, offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should utilize the perception of Steiner - who lived in the century before the last - as a measure to redefine the current necessity for awakening that underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going through.  Before it may turn too late."

         

        Gloria, I feel that you greatly underestimate `the formative spiritual forces' which Rudolf Steiner left behind through at least his published materials;  in some respects, approx. a century has passed since he lived and though it may seem a great span of time when  viewed from a context of 1 single (our present) earth life, it can also be experienced as a short one when one seriously ponders on the frequency in which significant and deeply pronounced incarnations occur through epics of humanity's history (and becoming).

         

        In today's world, the process of becoming familiar with Ahriman's presence within Western culture by engaging oneself in spirit objectivity (spirit concepts) regardless of where one actually lives,  is one of the steps through which  Anthroposophy's occult `properties' can become animated within one's self as well, our collective soul fabric. As anthroposophists, we do wish, in the least,  to offer ourselves as open windows through which Angelic beings may access and influence our earthly world…

         

        Your last sentence `Before it may turn too late' seems to express great urgency.  But we do find  through studying spiritual science that humankind's earthly and for that matter heavenly lives unravel within the greatest of complexity.  Taking this into consideration,  your sentence could be still be seen as a call `from the starting line'  to finally wake up, get up and get moving.

         

        Rudolf Steiner often addressed his attendees with deep heart forces and within their echo (our individual reading), we should still be able to recognize a call for great and reverent patience. And through truly knowing  this patience,   we may all  come to know what actions are already ongoing through Anthroposophia's earthly presence and how we are presently taking  part in them.

         

        This is just one of the humble ways to approach your objections.  C.

         

         


        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria <gloriabjork@...> wrote:
        >
        > Simply put, I see too much complacency in North American's culture. Steiner may have said it in a more digestible form, but at the moment there is no longer a division in terms of space or distance, since things (and thoughts) have tended to become pretty much global. You only need to go to any interesting city of Europe in the summer, and watch the herds of North American tourists wandering up and down the roads. It is apparent that the exchanges have become more overt, and so the giving and taking. Under the current conditions of globalization, outsourcing, offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should utilize the perception of Steiner - who lived in the century before the last - as a measure to redefine the current necessity for awakening that underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going through. Before it may turn too late.
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > -Gloria
        >
        > carol organicethics@... wrote:
        > "this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany anthroposophy succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people make it be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is just consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to mankind…"
        >
        > I believe that a need has revealed itself to recognize in the most sympathetic manner, the major (albeit intimate) spiritual differences between various peoples distributed throughout the world. This area of study is ongoing for me, as are so many other areas of study…
        >
        > From what I know through my own `experience' and from what I see around me, North Americans do not seem to naturally possess the same spiritual constitution and solid, steadfast understanding which can be seen, to varying degrees, underlying individualities from the Middle part of Europe. Nor do Eastern Europeans seem to carry about them this same inner constitution.
        >
        > Rudolf Steiner differentiated these natural forming underlying constitutions in somewhat of the following.
        >
        > In North Americans, knowledge of spirit surfaces in an instinctive manner, in Middle Europe it does so in an intellectual manner and in Eastern Europe it does so through an inspirational pathway. This is somewhat of a barren overview, but when observation allows these fundamental distinctions to fill with content, not only does it permit the possibility for developing warmer rapports with others carrying about them something of a `difference', but it also opens the way for allowing one the possibility of conceiving of how, when all these forces work together under a Michaelmic influence, they exist as the moving forces which humanity uses to advance forward in time, while ensuring harmony with the `life bearing' Spiritual ones of this world and beyond it.
        >
        > I visualized these differences in the following manner: The North American carries his/her spirit forces deep in his pocket (ready to be grabbed and used at any decisive moment), the middle European wears them as his/her warm, securing vest and the Slavic sees them on the path set before him and under his feet, leading him/her forward in time, along with the rest of humanity, into a more spiritualized future.
        >
        > Rudolf Steiner indicated that the Middle European, through his capacity of intellectually interpreting Spirit, could be brought to act as the bridging (directional?) force between the East and the West. (?) This would seem possible since neither the East nor the West seem to intrinsically possess natural forming, solid (full body)capabilities in this/their common domain, even when they engage themselves in Anthroposophical studies.
        >
        > And stepping out of theory, how and where does this play itself out?
        >
        > The extract of the lecture which Bradford brought forth gives a clue.
        >
        >
        > "But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this. Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you…
        >
        > …In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other" man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar occasion
        > Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention become a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the Spirit-Man, the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-Self. http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/StudyMan/19190825a01.html
        > PS. I gave it a good try! C.
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria gloriabjork@ wrote:
        > >
        > > this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany anthroposophy succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people make it be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is just consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to mankind. However, one can no longer say that it is the way it is, not being what it should be. Possibly man is attributing to Ahriman much of the load that man alone is creating, and neglecting.
        > > -Gloria
        > >
        > > holderlin66 holderlin66@ wrote:
        > > Carol, thank you for your clarity in your response to Gloria. And thanks Gloria for standing with a flashlight in the dark. We all miss the Christian Community and we are all hardly strong enough to keep our cognitive balance daily when we are usually standing as 1 in 10,000. Alex Jones comes into my restaurant in Austin Texas frequently and from his base in Austin Texas the whole context of the Fabrication of terror and False flags are richly explored by him.
        > > Ron Paul the current hopeless candidate for President in the current debached and deceptive big money nightmare of American politics. Ron Paul is hopeless because of the problems that Carol, Gloria, Steve and so many others have richly and intelligently described. Hopeless because big media and money want only certain players to play the game that will sustain the immense Ahrimanic deception going on in the shadow instincts of humanity. Humanity finds itself sinking in the Ahrimanic imaginations and machinations of cultural Ahrimanic deceptions with no sense of struggle or fight. We truly stand, in the Michael School, to make the obvious clear, that true common sensehood and humanity, specifically our children, are not swallowed Jona like into the numbing maw of Ahrimanic complacency.
        > > To stand upon the Ahrimanic ground under our feet, the Representative of Humanity was carved by Steiner to show the ground beneath our feetthat is riddled with deception that the common thinking human cannot get a fix on because of the massive educational deceptions and corporate lies that the human soul is unable to orientate themselves against. Nor turn Ahrimanic thinking right around to Michael thinking.
        > > The Representative of Humanity that STeiner carved also has a heady ceiling, a sistine chapel for each soul and every soul has wishes and desires floating on the ceiling or swarming and hunting in the depths. That Sistine ceiling above us is our chapel our own Luciferic intentions motives, and fantasies that fall in various regions of Sentient Soul or Intellectual Soul or shrunken and limited Consciousness Soul, limp dimensions which, of those, of course The Geneva Conventions, brush against the Angelic region of how each human being is a holy replication of one of their progressive species in time. That what we hold sacred before us is the mighty manifestation of an incarnation chiseled and molded for use in a stretch of karmic time and higher soul teaching and instruction.
        > > Here we stand before a human being, a riddle, loaded with ancient history and Karma and we carry a collective unconscious, untapped memory field rooted in our Etheric and Astral integrations and co-designed by the Angels and The Lord of Karma Himself/Herself.... But we hardly rebuild our grasp of looking at the Representative of Humanity and understanding that the grounds we walk on are the bubbling, thrusting imaginations, stalagmite like mineral deposit (speleothem) which projects upwards from a cave floor, are riddled with media imaginations and a humanity without a compass as to how the human i am proceeds through this new realm of Michael/ahriman cognition.
        > > We hardly take the Imagination of the Michael and Christic Human Soul raying forth the clarification of Michael Intelligence that presses the Ahrimanic Imaginations under our feet with enough seriousness to steer our self-inflicted numbness and deliberate dumbness of soul. Humanity, aside from a weakened Michael School, which should be able to keep the pathways open for Cosmic Intelligence and Human Intelligence to walk or stride forward as the mighty statue strides through Earth time, stumbles rather than strides. But how you describe that we are wading through upthrusting stalagmite like imaginations that numb thinking and education all through the entire compromised and dishonest system we drag our children through is really a huffing and puffing effort, when it is far easier to have little tea parties herbal teas.
        > > This hardly dismisses the idea that overhead in each individual there is a unique sistine chapel ceiling of dynamic emotional forces that swirl and conform themselves to our subjective wishes. And we wish and our wish and our motives flood our souls. And through Spiritual Science we can track wish, desire and motive through the deeper layers of Sentient, Intellectual and Consciousness Soul sub-system dynamics in the soul workings of the human being. Steiner in his Study of Man refutes the church's egotistic system of repentance. Rather resolution and feeling rather that whatever we do, we carry the striving that we really could have done it better. None of us have ever really done much of anything great, right or improved so much as in inch of the world.... at least that is the foundation of healthy human soul humility. But the Church lamed and lied and mis-fed egotistic impulses that are not native to the deeper recessess of our i am. Our karma offers opportunity to
        > > do it right again therefore the quick fix of absolution and repentance that the church has offered as well as money to buy off the guilt of kamaloca has helped to shift the forces of the soul away from the inner healthy truth of the moral i am.
        > > Absolution is an integral part of the sacrament of penance and reconciliation. The penitent makes a sacramental confession of all mortal sins to a priest and prays an act of contrition. The priest then assigns a penance and offers absolution in the name of the Trinity, on behalf of the Church:
        > > R. S. Study of Man
        > > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/StudyMan/19190825a01.html
        > > "....You can, e.g., have the following idea: something I wished to do, or did, was good; or you can have some other idea; but that is not what I mean. I mean something that can be faintly heard beneath the impulse of will, but which is still of the nature of will. There is something which always works in the will when we have motives; that is, the wish. I do not now mean the strongly developed wishes out of which the desires are formed, but an undercurrent of wishes that accompany all our motives. They are always present. We perceive this wishing particularly clearly when we carry out something which arises out of a motive in our will, and then we think it over and say to ourselves; what you did then you could do much better. But what is there we do in life, without a feeling that we could have done it better? It would be sad if we were completely contented with anything, for there is nothing which we could not do better still. And this is where we see the difference
        > > between a man who is somewhat more civilised and one who is not so advanced, for the latter always has the tendency to be satisfied with himself. The more advanced man never wants to be so thoroughly satisfied with himself because he has always in him the soft undertone of a wish to do better, even to do differently. There is much sinning in this domain. Men regard it as a tremendously noble thing to repent of a deed; but that is not the best that can be done with a deed; for often repentance is based upon sheer egoism: one would like to have done something better in order to be a better man. That is egoistic. Our efforts will only cease to be egoistic when we do not wish to have done a thing better than we have done it, but consider it far more important to do the same thing better next time. The intention which a man has is the more important thing, not the repentance — the endeavour to do the same thing on another occasion. And in this intention wish sounds as an
        > > undertone; so that we may well ask the question: What is this undertone of wish which accompanies our intention? For anyone who can really observe the soul this wish is the first element of all that remains over after death. It is something of this remainder which we feel when we say: we ought to have done it better: we wish we had done it better. In the wish, in the form in which I have described it to you, we have something which belongs to the Spirit-Self.
        > > Now the wish can become more concrete, it can take on a clearer form, Then it becomes similar to an intention. Then there is formed a kind of mental picture of how a thing would be done better if it had to be done again. I do not, however, lay the greatest stress on the mental picture, but on the feeling and the will elements which accompany each motive, the intention to do a thing better in a similar case. Here the so-called sub-conscious in man plays a prominent part. If in your ordinary consciousness to-day you perform an action out of your own will, you do not necessarily make an idea in your mind of how you will do it. But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this. Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you.
        > >
        > > That so-called scientific line of thought which calls itself analytical psychology, "psycho-analysis," talks a lot of nonsense about this "second man." This psycho-analysis usually starts from the following classic example in setting forth its principles. I have already told you this story, but it is good to call it to mind again. It is as follows: A man gives an evening party at his house, and it is known that, immediately after the party is over, the lady of the house is going away to a Spa. There are at the party various people, among them a lady. The party is given. The lady of the house is taken to the train that she may travel to the Spa. The rest of the party leaves and with them the lady already mentioned. She, with the other members of the party, is overtaken at a crossroads by a carriage which, coming round a corner from another street, is not seen until it is quite close. What do the people coming from the party do? Of course they avoid the carriage by going
        > > right and left, with the exception of the lady. She runs as fast as she can in front of the horses dawn the middle of the street. The coachman does not stop and the rest of the party are terrified. But the lady runs so fast that the others cannot follow her, and she runs until she comes to a bridge. And even then it does not occur to her to get out of the way. She falls into the water, but she is saved and brought back to her late host's house. And there she is able to spend the night.
        > >
        > > You find this as an example in many works on psychoanalysis. But something in it is always falsely interpreted. For the question is: what was at the back of this whole incident? The will of the lady. What did she really want to do? She wanted to return to her host's house as soon as his wife had gone away, for she was in love with him. This, however, was not a conscious wish, but something which had its seat in the sub-conscious. And this sub-consciousness of the second man, within us, is often much more shrewd than a man is in his upper consciousness. So clever was the sub-conscious in this case that the lady arranged the whole proceeding up to the moment in which she fell into the water in order to be able to return to her host's house. In fact she saw prophetically that she would be saved. Psycho-analysis tries to get at these hidden soul forces, but it only speaks in general of a "second man." But we are able to know that there does exist in every man what is at
        > > work in the subconscious soul forces, and that it often shows itself to be extraordinarily clever, much cleverer than the ordinary activity of the soul.
        > >
        > > In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other" man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar occasion
        > >
        > > Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention become a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the Spirit-Man, the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-Self. When you then consider man as a being of Will you can find all these component parts in him: instinct, impulse, desire and motive, and then, playing in as a gentle accompaniment: wish, intention and resolution which are already living in Spirit-Self, Life-Spirit, and Spirit-Man
        > >
        > > This has a great significance in the development of the human being. For what is thus present under the surface, waiting for the time after death, is expressed in man in image form between birth and death. We describe it there in the same words. We experience wish, intention and resolution through our mental picturing. But we shall only experience wish, intention, resolution as they accord with true manhood when these things are developed and nurtured in the right manner. What wish, intention and resolution really are in deeper human nature, does not appear in the external man between birth and death. Images of them appear in the life of mental pictures. If you only develop ordinary consciousness you know nothing at all of what "wish" is."
        > > Bradford concludes;
        > > The Second Man within us, and the nature of the icy motives, of Ahriman vs the true motives of the higher human core.... not discounting as well our general luciferic cravings, reveal the pivot between the cunning and clever misleading of our shadow double and that which contains the magnificent cogntive grasp of dynamic forces that stirs in our depths as Spirit-Selves, our Life-Spirits and our Spirit-Man. In these depths unique forces of the Etheric Christ surface sometimes a picture of how some karmic event might take shape and resolve itself in the future... And our stunned karmic i am sees how this deep picture has issued up from the depths of our being, to resolve some karmic error, or failed and damaging event. But humans without a conscience or merely an Ahrimanic shell, will dismiss this haunting vision and what will ensue are nervous tics and nervous pyschic conditions that are then numbed even further and distorted through medical abuses.
        > > But also we are together surrounded by humanity with tangled, festering and icy motives, gleeful lusts and avarice directed selfish designs with no grasp of how these instincts and motives move through our will or what soul terrain of Devachan holiness or nightmare we apparently strike from. Even if what moves through our will as previous incarnations tendencies that now attract the instinctive soul to political and ahrimanic deceptions we won't, don't and are afraid to examine our motives and instincts .. Afraid to bring the clarity of common sense and decency into how we address and treat other human spirits that are standing side by side with us on our destiny paths. Because if we do, we enter the sweet complexities of the Michael School and the layers of soul and real beings that are bent on imprisoning us in our deceptions. NICE!
        > > Knowing the nature of some of the regions of the soul where icy lies, deceptions and torture, war and human egotism have been fed to the point of bloating and repressing common sense and supporting war mongering traitors, false flag deceptions, and schools to promote such attitudes puts us in the target line of MSM, Main Stream Media, the military industrial arm of bio-weaponry, torture and fully destructive concepts in education and medical science that promote and further the For Profit deception of human frivolity in the face of mass murder. It also is a juicy opportunity in The Fifth Epoch to gain schooling by seeing, understanding and navigating the deceptions that are thrown at us.
        > > For even now, because of these pre-emptive wars, we drive our cars on gas guzzling murder, we go to the grocery and the mall on companies that are thriving on murder, thriving on our jobs being required and us going to our job on the back of gasoline prices and world karma. Evil Ahrimanic decisions that have placed us as guilty of failure to stop the monsters from growing. No effort to create wholly different energy efficient autos is seriously considered and boycott and refusal to support idiots in office numbs the complacent intellect, but rather super power, false flag, media driven murder of our fellow human beings by our own high ranking officials in order to blame it on some group.... Jews or Arabs, it makes no difference!
        > > The lie is deeply rooted in the tangle of human instincts and too awful or honest for the chicken meely mouthed christian to wrestle with. The deception and the fallacies find root in the darkened instinctual double and bypasses our human thinking that is now able to see, with Michael Intelligence into the motives of Ahriman or for the few who try to see, also into the higher regions of the new Consciousness Soul frontiers of human ethics and warm Christic heart striving. And far too slowly, such films like Vendetta and imaginations trickle into the soul as Entertainment instead of preliminary schooling with spiritual depth and honesty behind them. We are in the midst of Fifth Epoch Michael Schooling and discernment and we are wading through wonderful examples of Ahrimanic and Luciferic imaginations as well as challenges to transform these impulses to ever deeper roots of thinking within us. To see the inverted Ahrimanic images and like an inverted image reverse it
        > > and set it properly within our higher human striving against the inverted image and the inverted logic that humanity wants to adapt as normal tendencies.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ---------------------------------
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      • Stephen Hale
        When Gloria writes and says: What do you think about the fabrication of terror coming out of the United States? , doesn t she mean: What do us anthro s think
        Message 3 of 18 , Jun 5, 2007
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          When Gloria writes and says: "What do you think about the
          fabrication of terror coming out of the United States?", doesn't she
          mean: What do us anthro's think about it? To me, this is pure
          freudian, because she has to know that we anthro's have thought alot
          about this fabrication of terror. For myself, I said that the war
          on terror was caused through pre-planning that involved destroying
          the World Trade Center buildings by way of demolition implosion.
          And this is clearly evident. No popular science physics can make an
          explosion into an implosion. And if that isn't enough evidence, no
          third building is going to come down in sympathy for the other two
          the same way. But Americans simply don't want to look at it.

          Maybe she confuses Americans with those who take pains to look into
          these matters with a clear eye.

          Steve

          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...>
          wrote:
          >
          >
          > "Under the current conditions of globalization, outsourcing,
          > offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should
          > utilize the perception of Steiner - who lived in the century
          before the
          > last - as a measure to redefine the current necessity for
          awakening that
          > underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going
          > through. Before it may turn too late."
          >
          >
          >
          > Gloria, I feel that you greatly underestimate `the formative
          > spiritual forces' which Rudolf Steiner left behind through at least
          > his published materials; in some respects, approx. a century has
          passed
          > since he lived and though it may seem a great span of time when
          viewed
          > from a context of 1 single (our present) earth life, it can also be
          > experienced as a short one when one seriously ponders on the
          frequency
          > in which significant and deeply pronounced incarnations occur
          through
          > epics of humanity's history (and becoming).
          >
          >
          >
          > In today's world, the process of becoming familiar with
          > Ahriman's presence within Western culture by engaging oneself in
          > spirit objectivity (spirit concepts) regardless of where one
          actually
          > lives, is one of the steps through which Anthroposophy's occult
          > `properties' can become animated within one's self as well,
          > our collective soul fabric. As anthroposophists, we do wish, in the
          > least, to offer ourselves as open windows through which Angelic
          beings
          > may access and influence our earthly world…
          >
          >
          >
          > Your last sentence `Before it may turn too late' seems to
          > express great urgency. But we do find through studying spiritual
          > science that humankind's earthly and for that matter heavenly lives
          > unravel within the greatest of complexity. Taking this into
          > consideration, your sentence could be still be seen as a call
          `from
          > the starting line' to finally wake up, get up and get moving.
          >
          >
          >
          > Rudolf Steiner often addressed his attendees with deep heart
          forces and
          > within their echo (our individual reading), we should still be
          able to
          > recognize a call for great and reverent patience. And through truly
          > knowing this patience, we may all come to know what actions are
          > already ongoing through Anthroposophia's earthly presence and how
          we are
          > presently taking part in them.
          >
          >
          >
          > This is just one of the humble ways to approach your objections.
          C.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria <gloriabjork@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Simply put, I see too much complacency in North American's
          culture.
          > Steiner may have said it in a more digestible form, but at the
          moment
          > there is no longer a division in terms of space or distance, since
          > things (and thoughts) have tended to become pretty much global.
          You only
          > need to go to any interesting city of Europe in the summer, and
          watch
          > the herds of North American tourists wandering up and down the
          roads. It
          > is apparent that the exchanges have become more overt, and so the
          giving
          > and taking. Under the current conditions of globalization,
          outsourcing,
          > offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should
          > utilize the perception of Steiner - who lived in the century
          before the
          > last - as a measure to redefine the current necessity for
          awakening that
          > underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going
          > through. Before it may turn too late.
          > >
          > > Regards,
          > >
          > > -Gloria
          > >
          > > carol organicethics@ wrote:
          > > "this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the
          > beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany
          anthroposophy
          > succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people
          make it
          > be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is
          just
          > consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to
          > mankind…"
          > >
          > > I believe that a need has revealed itself to recognize in the
          most
          > sympathetic manner, the major (albeit intimate) spiritual
          differences
          > between various peoples distributed throughout the world. This
          area of
          > study is ongoing for me, as are so many other areas of study…
          > >
          > > From what I know through my own `experience' and from what I see
          > around me, North Americans do not seem to naturally possess the
          same
          > spiritual constitution and solid, steadfast understanding which
          can be
          > seen, to varying degrees, underlying individualities from the
          Middle
          > part of Europe. Nor do Eastern Europeans seem to carry about them
          this
          > same inner constitution.
          > >
          > > Rudolf Steiner differentiated these natural forming underlying
          > constitutions in somewhat of the following.
          > >
          > > In North Americans, knowledge of spirit surfaces in an
          instinctive
          > manner, in Middle Europe it does so in an intellectual manner and
          in
          > Eastern Europe it does so through an inspirational pathway. This is
          > somewhat of a barren overview, but when observation allows these
          > fundamental distinctions to fill with content, not only does it
          permit
          > the possibility for developing warmer rapports with others carrying
          > about them something of a `difference', but it also opens the way
          for
          > allowing one the possibility of conceiving of how, when all these
          forces
          > work together under a Michaelmic influence, they exist as the
          moving
          > forces which humanity uses to advance forward in time, while
          ensuring
          > harmony with the `life bearing' Spiritual ones of this world and
          beyond
          > it.
          > >
          > > I visualized these differences in the following manner: The North
          > American carries his/her spirit forces deep in his pocket (ready
          to be
          > grabbed and used at any decisive moment), the middle European
          wears them
          > as his/her warm, securing vest and the Slavic sees them on the
          path set
          > before him and under his feet, leading him/her forward in time,
          along
          > with the rest of humanity, into a more spiritualized future.
          > >
          > > Rudolf Steiner indicated that the Middle European, through his
          > capacity of intellectually interpreting Spirit, could be brought
          to act
          > as the bridging (directional?) force between the East and the
          West. (?)
          > This would seem possible since neither the East nor the West seem
          to
          > intrinsically possess natural forming, solid (full body)
          capabilities in
          > this/their common domain, even when they engage themselves in
          > Anthroposophical studies.
          > >
          > > And stepping out of theory, how and where does this play itself
          out?
          > >
          > > The extract of the lecture which Bradford brought forth gives a
          clue.
          > >
          > >
          > > "But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always
          forms
          > — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will
          > — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same
          > position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this.
          Above
          > all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you…
          > >
          > > …In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other"
          > man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who
          always
          > makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next
          time,
          > so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the
          intention,
          > the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a
          similar
          > occasion
          > > Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention
          become a
          > resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the
          > resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the
          Spirit-Man,
          > the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-
          Self.
          > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/StudyMan/19190825a01.html
          > > PS. I gave it a good try! C.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria gloriabjork@ wrote:
          > > >
          > > > this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the
          > beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany
          anthroposophy
          > succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people
          make it
          > be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is
          just
          > consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to
          > mankind. However, one can no longer say that it is the way it is,
          not
          > being what it should be. Possibly man is attributing to Ahriman
          much of
          > the load that man alone is creating, and neglecting.
          > > > -Gloria
          > > >
          > > > holderlin66 holderlin66@ wrote:
          > > > Carol, thank you for your clarity in your response to Gloria.
          And
          > thanks Gloria for standing with a flashlight in the dark. We all
          miss
          > the Christian Community and we are all hardly strong enough to
          keep our
          > cognitive balance daily when we are usually standing as 1 in
          10,000.
          > Alex Jones comes into my restaurant in Austin Texas frequently and
          from
          > his base in Austin Texas the whole context of the Fabrication of
          terror
          > and False flags are richly explored by him.
          > > > Ron Paul the current hopeless candidate for President in the
          current
          > debached and deceptive big money nightmare of American politics.
          Ron
          > Paul is hopeless because of the problems that Carol, Gloria, Steve
          and
          > so many others have richly and intelligently described. Hopeless
          because
          > big media and money want only certain players to play the game
          that will
          > sustain the immense Ahrimanic deception going on in the shadow
          instincts
          > of humanity. Humanity finds itself sinking in the Ahrimanic
          imaginations
          > and machinations of cultural Ahrimanic deceptions with no sense of
          > struggle or fight. We truly stand, in the Michael School, to make
          the
          > obvious clear, that true common sensehood and humanity,
          specifically our
          > children, are not swallowed Jona like into the numbing maw of
          Ahrimanic
          > complacency.
          > > > To stand upon the Ahrimanic ground under our feet, the
          > Representative of Humanity was carved by Steiner to show the ground
          > beneath our feetthat is riddled with deception that the common
          thinking
          > human cannot get a fix on because of the massive educational
          deceptions
          > and corporate lies that the human soul is unable to orientate
          themselves
          > against. Nor turn Ahrimanic thinking right around to Michael
          thinking.
          > > > The Representative of Humanity that STeiner carved also has a
          heady
          > ceiling, a sistine chapel for each soul and every soul has wishes
          and
          > desires floating on the ceiling or swarming and hunting in the
          depths.
          > That Sistine ceiling above us is our chapel our own Luciferic
          intentions
          > motives, and fantasies that fall in various regions of Sentient
          Soul or
          > Intellectual Soul or shrunken and limited Consciousness Soul, limp
          > dimensions which, of those, of course The Geneva Conventions, brush
          > against the Angelic region of how each human being is a holy
          replication
          > of one of their progressive species in time. That what we hold
          sacred
          > before us is the mighty manifestation of an incarnation chiseled
          and
          > molded for use in a stretch of karmic time and higher soul
          teaching and
          > instruction.
          > > > Here we stand before a human being, a riddle, loaded with
          ancient
          > history and Karma and we carry a collective unconscious, untapped
          memory
          > field rooted in our Etheric and Astral integrations and co-
          designed by
          > the Angels and The Lord of Karma Himself/Herself.... But we hardly
          > rebuild our grasp of looking at the Representative of Humanity and
          > understanding that the grounds we walk on are the bubbling,
          thrusting
          > imaginations, stalagmite like mineral deposit (speleothem) which
          > projects upwards from a cave floor, are riddled with media
          imaginations
          > and a humanity without a compass as to how the human i am proceeds
          > through this new realm of Michael/ahriman cognition.
          > > > We hardly take the Imagination of the Michael and Christic
          Human
          > Soul raying forth the clarification of Michael Intelligence that
          presses
          > the Ahrimanic Imaginations under our feet with enough seriousness
          to
          > steer our self-inflicted numbness and deliberate dumbness of soul.
          > Humanity, aside from a weakened Michael School, which should be
          able to
          > keep the pathways open for Cosmic Intelligence and Human
          Intelligence to
          > walk or stride forward as the mighty statue strides through Earth
          time,
          > stumbles rather than strides. But how you describe that we are
          wading
          > through upthrusting stalagmite like imaginations that numb
          thinking and
          > education all through the entire compromised and dishonest system
          we
          > drag our children through is really a huffing and puffing effort,
          when
          > it is far easier to have little tea parties herbal teas.
          > > > This hardly dismisses the idea that overhead in each individual
          > there is a unique sistine chapel ceiling of dynamic emotional
          forces
          > that swirl and conform themselves to our subjective wishes. And we
          wish
          > and our wish and our motives flood our souls. And through Spiritual
          > Science we can track wish, desire and motive through the deeper
          layers
          > of Sentient, Intellectual and Consciousness Soul sub-system
          dynamics in
          > the soul workings of the human being. Steiner in his Study of Man
          > refutes the church's egotistic system of repentance. Rather
          resolution
          > and feeling rather that whatever we do, we carry the striving that
          we
          > really could have done it better. None of us have ever really done
          much
          > of anything great, right or improved so much as in inch of the
          world....
          > at least that is the foundation of healthy human soul humility.
          But the
          > Church lamed and lied and mis-fed egotistic impulses that are not
          native
          > to the deeper recessess of our i am. Our karma offers opportunity
          to
          > > > do it right again therefore the quick fix of absolution and
          > repentance that the church has offered as well as money to buy off
          the
          > guilt of kamaloca has helped to shift the forces of the soul away
          from
          > the inner healthy truth of the moral i am.
          > > > Absolution is an integral part of the sacrament of penance and
          > reconciliation. The penitent makes a sacramental confession of all
          > mortal sins to a priest and prays an act of contrition. The priest
          then
          > assigns a penance and offers absolution in the name of the
          Trinity, on
          > behalf of the Church:
          > > > R. S. Study of Man
          > > > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/StudyMan/19190825a01.html
          > > > "....You can, e.g., have the following idea: something I
          wished to
          > do, or did, was good; or you can have some other idea; but that is
          not
          > what I mean. I mean something that can be faintly heard beneath the
          > impulse of will, but which is still of the nature of will. There is
          > something which always works in the will when we have motives;
          that is,
          > the wish. I do not now mean the strongly developed wishes out of
          which
          > the desires are formed, but an undercurrent of wishes that
          accompany all
          > our motives. They are always present. We perceive this wishing
          > particularly clearly when we carry out something which arises out
          of a
          > motive in our will, and then we think it over and say to
          ourselves; what
          > you did then you could do much better. But what is there we do in
          life,
          > without a feeling that we could have done it better? It would be
          sad if
          > we were completely contented with anything, for there is nothing
          which
          > we could not do better still. And this is where we see the
          difference
          > > > between a man who is somewhat more civilised and one who is
          not so
          > advanced, for the latter always has the tendency to be satisfied
          with
          > himself. The more advanced man never wants to be so thoroughly
          satisfied
          > with himself because he has always in him the soft undertone of a
          wish
          > to do better, even to do differently. There is much sinning in this
          > domain. Men regard it as a tremendously noble thing to repent of a
          deed;
          > but that is not the best that can be done with a deed; for often
          > repentance is based upon sheer egoism: one would like to have done
          > something better in order to be a better man. That is egoistic. Our
          > efforts will only cease to be egoistic when we do not wish to have
          done
          > a thing better than we have done it, but consider it far more
          important
          > to do the same thing better next time. The intention which a man
          has is
          > the more important thing, not the repentance — the endeavour to do
          > the same thing on another occasion. And in this intention wish
          sounds as
          > an
          > > > undertone; so that we may well ask the question: What is this
          > undertone of wish which accompanies our intention? For anyone who
          can
          > really observe the soul this wish is the first element of all that
          > remains over after death. It is something of this remainder which
          we
          > feel when we say: we ought to have done it better: we wish we had
          done
          > it better. In the wish, in the form in which I have described it
          to you,
          > we have something which belongs to the Spirit-Self.
          > > > Now the wish can become more concrete, it can take on a clearer
          > form, Then it becomes similar to an intention. Then there is
          formed a
          > kind of mental picture of how a thing would be done better if it
          had to
          > be done again. I do not, however, lay the greatest stress on the
          mental
          > picture, but on the feeling and the will elements which accompany
          each
          > motive, the intention to do a thing better in a similar case. Here
          the
          > so-called sub-conscious in man plays a prominent part. If in your
          > ordinary consciousness to-day you perform an action out of your own
          > will, you do not necessarily make an idea in your mind of how you
          will
          > do it. But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always
          > forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the
          > will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the
          > same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as
          this.
          > Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in
          you.
          > > >
          > > > That so-called scientific line of thought which calls itself
          > analytical psychology, "psycho-analysis," talks a lot of nonsense
          about
          > this "second man." This psycho-analysis usually starts from the
          > following classic example in setting forth its principles. I have
          > already told you this story, but it is good to call it to mind
          again. It
          > is as follows: A man gives an evening party at his house, and it is
          > known that, immediately after the party is over, the lady of the
          house
          > is going away to a Spa. There are at the party various people,
          among
          > them a lady. The party is given. The lady of the house is taken to
          the
          > train that she may travel to the Spa. The rest of the party leaves
          and
          > with them the lady already mentioned. She, with the other members
          of the
          > party, is overtaken at a crossroads by a carriage which, coming
          round a
          > corner from another street, is not seen until it is quite close.
          What do
          > the people coming from the party do? Of course they avoid the
          carriage
          > by going
          > > > right and left, with the exception of the lady. She runs as
          fast as
          > she can in front of the horses dawn the middle of the street. The
          > coachman does not stop and the rest of the party are terrified.
          But the
          > lady runs so fast that the others cannot follow her, and she runs
          until
          > she comes to a bridge. And even then it does not occur to her to
          get out
          > of the way. She falls into the water, but she is saved and brought
          back
          > to her late host's house. And there she is able to spend the night.
          > > >
          > > > You find this as an example in many works on psychoanalysis.
          But
          > something in it is always falsely interpreted. For the question
          is: what
          > was at the back of this whole incident? The will of the lady. What
          did
          > she really want to do? She wanted to return to her host's house as
          soon
          > as his wife had gone away, for she was in love with him. This,
          however,
          > was not a conscious wish, but something which had its seat in the
          > sub-conscious. And this sub-consciousness of the second man,
          within us,
          > is often much more shrewd than a man is in his upper
          consciousness. So
          > clever was the sub-conscious in this case that the lady arranged
          the
          > whole proceeding up to the moment in which she fell into the water
          in
          > order to be able to return to her host's house. In fact she saw
          > prophetically that she would be saved. Psycho-analysis tries to
          get at
          > these hidden soul forces, but it only speaks in general of
          a "second
          > man." But we are able to know that there does exist in every man
          what is
          > at
          > > > work in the subconscious soul forces, and that it often shows
          itself
          > to be extraordinarily clever, much cleverer than the ordinary
          activity
          > of the soul.
          > > >
          > > > In every man there dwells, underground, as it were,
          the "other" man.
          > In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always
          makes up
          > his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so
          that
          > always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the
          > unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar
          > occasion
          > > >
          > > > Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention
          become
          > a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and
          the
          > resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the
          Spirit-Man,
          > the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-
          Self.
          > When you then consider man as a being of Will you can find all
          these
          > component parts in him: instinct, impulse, desire and motive, and
          then,
          > playing in as a gentle accompaniment: wish, intention and
          resolution
          > which are already living in Spirit-Self, Life-Spirit, and Spirit-
          Man
          > > >
          > > > This has a great significance in the development of the human
          being.
          > For what is thus present under the surface, waiting for the time
          after
          > death, is expressed in man in image form between birth and death.
          We
          > describe it there in the same words. We experience wish, intention
          and
          > resolution through our mental picturing. But we shall only
          experience
          > wish, intention, resolution as they accord with true manhood when
          these
          > things are developed and nurtured in the right manner. What wish,
          > intention and resolution really are in deeper human nature, does
          not
          > appear in the external man between birth and death. Images of them
          > appear in the life of mental pictures. If you only develop ordinary
          > consciousness you know nothing at all of what "wish" is."
          > > > Bradford concludes;
          > > > The Second Man within us, and the nature of the icy motives, of
          > Ahriman vs the true motives of the higher human core.... not
          discounting
          > as well our general luciferic cravings, reveal the pivot between
          the
          > cunning and clever misleading of our shadow double and that which
          > contains the magnificent cogntive grasp of dynamic forces that
          stirs in
          > our depths as Spirit-Selves, our Life-Spirits and our Spirit-Man.
          In
          > these depths unique forces of the Etheric Christ surface sometimes
          a
          > picture of how some karmic event might take shape and resolve
          itself in
          > the future... And our stunned karmic i am sees how this deep
          picture has
          > issued up from the depths of our being, to resolve some karmic
          error, or
          > failed and damaging event. But humans without a conscience or
          merely an
          > Ahrimanic shell, will dismiss this haunting vision and what will
          ensue
          > are nervous tics and nervous pyschic conditions that are then
          numbed
          > even further and distorted through medical abuses.
          > > > But also we are together surrounded by humanity with tangled,
          > festering and icy motives, gleeful lusts and avarice directed
          selfish
          > designs with no grasp of how these instincts and motives move
          through
          > our will or what soul terrain of Devachan holiness or nightmare we
          > apparently strike from. Even if what moves through our will as
          previous
          > incarnations tendencies that now attract the instinctive soul to
          > political and ahrimanic deceptions we won't, don't and are afraid
          to
          > examine our motives and instincts .. Afraid to bring the clarity of
          > common sense and decency into how we address and treat other human
          > spirits that are standing side by side with us on our destiny
          paths.
          > Because if we do, we enter the sweet complexities of the Michael
          School
          > and the layers of soul and real beings that are bent on
          imprisoning us
          > in our deceptions. NICE!
          > > > Knowing the nature of some of the regions of the soul where icy
          > lies, deceptions and torture, war and human egotism have been fed
          to the
          > point of bloating and repressing common sense and supporting war
          > mongering traitors, false flag deceptions, and schools to promote
          such
          > attitudes puts us in the target line of MSM, Main Stream Media, the
          > military industrial arm of bio-weaponry, torture and fully
          destructive
          > concepts in education and medical science that promote and further
          the
          > For Profit deception of human frivolity in the face of mass
          murder. It
          > also is a juicy opportunity in The Fifth Epoch to gain schooling by
          > seeing, understanding and navigating the deceptions that are
          thrown at
          > us.
          > > > For even now, because of these pre-emptive wars, we drive our
          cars
          > on gas guzzling murder, we go to the grocery and the mall on
          companies
          > that are thriving on murder, thriving on our jobs being required
          and us
          > going to our job on the back of gasoline prices and world karma.
          Evil
          > Ahrimanic decisions that have placed us as guilty of failure to
          stop the
          > monsters from growing. No effort to create wholly different energy
          > efficient autos is seriously considered and boycott and refusal to
          > support idiots in office numbs the complacent intellect, but rather
          > super power, false flag, media driven murder of our fellow human
          beings
          > by our own high ranking officials in order to blame it on some
          group....
          > Jews or Arabs, it makes no difference!
          > > > The lie is deeply rooted in the tangle of human instincts and
          too
          > awful or honest for the chicken meely mouthed christian to wrestle
          with.
          > The deception and the fallacies find root in the darkened
          instinctual
          > double and bypasses our human thinking that is now able to see,
          with
          > Michael Intelligence into the motives of Ahriman or for the few
          who try
          > to see, also into the higher regions of the new Consciousness Soul
          > frontiers of human ethics and warm Christic heart striving. And
          far too
          > slowly, such films like Vendetta and imaginations trickle into the
          soul
          > as Entertainment instead of preliminary schooling with spiritual
          depth
          > and honesty behind them. We are in the midst of Fifth Epoch Michael
          > Schooling and discernment and we are wading through wonderful
          examples
          > of Ahrimanic and Luciferic imaginations as well as challenges to
          > transform these impulses to ever deeper roots of thinking within
          us. To
          > see the inverted Ahrimanic images and like an inverted image
          reverse it
          > > > and set it properly within our higher human striving against
          the
          > inverted image and the inverted logic that humanity wants to adapt
          as
          > normal tendencies.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ---------------------------------
          > > > Don't pick lemons.
          > > > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone
          who
          > knows.
          > > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
          > >
          >
        • Gloria
          Steve, thank you for the clear response. I was missing such direct addressing of the situation. Instead, the pushing away the problems on the faults of
          Message 4 of 18 , Jun 5, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Steve, thank you for the clear response.  I was missing such direct addressing of the situation.  Instead, the pushing away the problems on the faults of Ahriman and his buddies, makes me feel angry and undone.  English is a good language to communicate. But, often I feel that it is also a trap.  For some reason, anthroposophy in German or in Swedish, even in French, feels less stressful.  I just dropped another anthroposophic discussion online, because I couldn't take the contemption that seems to overwhelm the discourses people share. Possibly, anthroposophy is only possible to exist as a healthy discipline of thought and living, when applied to a socialist society in which so many of the agonies and horrors of the consumer's marketsystem won't survive.  I may be biased, but in America, anthroposophy feels like a consumer's good, like going to IKEA or buying for the newest electric appliance. It feels very hollow.  But, I am an outsider and a foreigner.   -Gloria

            Stephen Hale <sardisian01@...> wrote:
            When Gloria writes and says: "What do you think about the
            fabrication of terror coming out of the United States?", doesn't she
            mean: What do us anthro's think about it? To me, this is pure
            freudian, because she has to know that we anthro's have thought alot
            about this fabrication of terror. For myself, I said that the war
            on terror was caused through pre-planning that involved destroying
            the World Trade Center buildings by way of demolition implosion.
            And this is clearly evident. No popular science physics can make an
            explosion into an implosion. And if that isn't enough evidence, no
            third building is going to come down in sympathy for the other two
            the same way. But Americans simply don't want to look at it.

            Maybe she confuses Americans with those who take pains to look into
            these matters with a clear eye.

            Steve

            --- In anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, "carol" <organicethics@ ...>
            wrote:
            >
            >
            > "Under the current conditions of globalization, outsourcing,
            > offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should
            > utilize the perception of Steiner - who lived in the century
            before the
            > last - as a measure to redefine the current necessity for
            awakening that
            > underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going
            > through. Before it may turn too late."
            >
            >
            >
            > Gloria, I feel that you greatly underestimate `the formative
            > spiritual forces' which Rudolf Steiner left behind through at least
            > his published materials; in some respects, approx. a century has
            passed
            > since he lived and though it may seem a great span of time when
            viewed
            > from a context of 1 single (our present) earth life, it can also be
            > experienced as a short one when one seriously ponders on the
            frequency
            > in which significant and deeply pronounced incarnations occur
            through
            > epics of humanity's history (and becoming).
            >
            >
            >
            > In today's world, the process of becoming familiar with
            > Ahriman's presence within Western culture by engaging oneself in
            > spirit objectivity (spirit concepts) regardless of where one
            actually
            > lives, is one of the steps through which Anthroposophy' s occult
            > `properties' can become animated within one's self as well,
            > our collective soul fabric. As anthroposophists, we do wish, in the
            > least, to offer ourselves as open windows through which Angelic
            beings
            > may access and influence our earthly world…
            >
            >
            >
            > Your last sentence `Before it may turn too late' seems to
            > express great urgency. But we do find through studying spiritual
            > science that humankind's earthly and for that matter heavenly lives
            > unravel within the greatest of complexity. Taking this into
            > consideration, your sentence could be still be seen as a call
            `from
            > the starting line' to finally wake up, get up and get moving.
            >
            >
            >
            > Rudolf Steiner often addressed his attendees with deep heart
            forces and
            > within their echo (our individual reading), we should still be
            able to
            > recognize a call for great and reverent patience. And through truly
            > knowing this patience, we may all come to know what actions are
            > already ongoing through Anthroposophia' s earthly presence and how
            we are
            > presently taking part in them.
            >
            >
            >
            > This is just one of the humble ways to approach your objections.
            C.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, Gloria <gloriabjork@ > wrote:
            > >
            > > Simply put, I see too much complacency in North American's
            culture.
            > Steiner may have said it in a more digestible form, but at the
            moment
            > there is no longer a division in terms of space or distance, since
            > things (and thoughts) have tended to become pretty much global.
            You only
            > need to go to any interesting city of Europe in the summer, and
            watch
            > the herds of North American tourists wandering up and down the
            roads. It
            > is apparent that the exchanges have become more overt, and so the
            giving
            > and taking. Under the current conditions of globalization,
            outsourcing,
            > offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should
            > utilize the perception of Steiner - who lived in the century
            before the
            > last - as a measure to redefine the current necessity for
            awakening that
            > underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going
            > through. Before it may turn too late.
            > >
            > > Regards,
            > >
            > > -Gloria
            > >
            > > carol organicethics@ wrote:
            > > "this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the
            > beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany
            anthroposophy
            > succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people
            make it
            > be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is
            just
            > consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to
            > mankind…"
            > >
            > > I believe that a need has revealed itself to recognize in the
            most
            > sympathetic manner, the major (albeit intimate) spiritual
            differences
            > between various peoples distributed throughout the world. This
            area of
            > study is ongoing for me, as are so many other areas of study…
            > >
            > > From what I know through my own `experience' and from what I see
            > around me, North Americans do not seem to naturally possess the
            same
            > spiritual constitution and solid, steadfast understanding which
            can be
            > seen, to varying degrees, underlying individualities from the
            Middle
            > part of Europe. Nor do Eastern Europeans seem to carry about them
            this
            > same inner constitution.
            > >
            > > Rudolf Steiner differentiated these natural forming underlying
            > constitutions in somewhat of the following.
            > >
            > > In North Americans, knowledge of spirit surfaces in an
            instinctive
            > manner, in Middle Europe it does so in an intellectual manner and
            in
            > Eastern Europe it does so through an inspirational pathway. This is
            > somewhat of a barren overview, but when observation allows these
            > fundamental distinctions to fill with content, not only does it
            permit
            > the possibility for developing warmer rapports with others carrying
            > about them something of a `difference' , but it also opens the way
            for
            > allowing one the possibility of conceiving of how, when all these
            forces
            > work together under a Michaelmic influence, they exist as the
            moving
            > forces which humanity uses to advance forward in time, while
            ensuring
            > harmony with the `life bearing' Spiritual ones of this world and
            beyond
            > it.
            > >
            > > I visualized these differences in the following manner: The North
            > American carries his/her spirit forces deep in his pocket (ready
            to be
            > grabbed and used at any decisive moment), the middle European
            wears them
            > as his/her warm, securing vest and the Slavic sees them on the
            path set
            > before him and under his feet, leading him/her forward in time,
            along
            > with the rest of humanity, into a more spiritualized future.
            > >
            > > Rudolf Steiner indicated that the Middle European, through his
            > capacity of intellectually interpreting Spirit, could be brought
            to act
            > as the bridging (directional? ) force between the East and the
            West. (?)
            > This would seem possible since neither the East nor the West seem
            to
            > intrinsically possess natural forming, solid (full body)
            capabilities in
            > this/their common domain, even when they engage themselves in
            > Anthroposophical studies.
            > >
            > > And stepping out of theory, how and where does this play itself
            out?
            > >
            > > The extract of the lecture which Bradford brought forth gives a
            clue.
            > >
            > >
            > > "But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always
            forms
            > — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will
            > — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same
            > position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this.
            Above
            > all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you…
            > >
            > > …In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other"
            > man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who
            always
            > makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next
            time,
            > so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the
            intention,
            > the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a
            similar
            > occasion
            > > Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention
            become a
            > resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the
            > resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the
            Spirit-Man,
            > the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-
            Self.
            > http://wn.rsarchive .org/Lectures/ StudyMan/ 19190825a01. html
            > > PS. I gave it a good try! C.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, Gloria gloriabjork@ wrote:
            > > >
            > > > this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the
            > beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany
            anthroposophy
            > succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people
            make it
            > be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is
            just
            > consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to
            > mankind. However, one can no longer say that it is the way it is,
            not
            > being what it should be. Possibly man is attributing to Ahriman
            much of
            > the load that man alone is creating, and neglecting.
            > > > -Gloria
            > > >
            > > > holderlin66 holderlin66@ wrote:
            > > > Carol, thank you for your clarity in your response to Gloria.
            And
            > thanks Gloria for standing with a flashlight in the dark. We all
            miss
            > the Christian Community and we are all hardly strong enough to
            keep our
            > cognitive balance daily when we are usually standing as 1 in
            10,000.
            > Alex Jones comes into my restaurant in Austin Texas frequently and
            from
            > his base in Austin Texas the whole context of the Fabrication of
            terror
            > and False flags are richly explored by him.
            > > > Ron Paul the current hopeless candidate for President in the
            current
            > debached and deceptive big money nightmare of American politics.
            Ron
            > Paul is hopeless because of the problems that Carol, Gloria, Steve
            and
            > so many others have richly and intelligently described. Hopeless
            because
            > big media and money want only certain players to play the game
            that will
            > sustain the immense Ahrimanic deception going on in the shadow
            instincts
            > of humanity. Humanity finds itself sinking in the Ahrimanic
            imaginations
            > and machinations of cultural Ahrimanic deceptions with no sense of
            > struggle or fight. We truly stand, in the Michael School, to make
            the
            > obvious clear, that true common sensehood and humanity,
            specifically our
            > children, are not swallowed Jona like into the numbing maw of
            Ahrimanic
            > complacency.
            > > > To stand upon the Ahrimanic ground under our feet, the
            > Representative of Humanity was carved by Steiner to show the ground
            > beneath our feetthat is riddled with deception that the common
            thinking
            > human cannot get a fix on because of the massive educational
            deceptions
            > and corporate lies that the human soul is unable to orientate
            themselves
            > against. Nor turn Ahrimanic thinking right around to Michael
            thinking.
            > > > The Representative of Humanity that STeiner carved also has a
            heady
            > ceiling, a sistine chapel for each soul and every soul has wishes
            and
            > desires floating on the ceiling or swarming and hunting in the
            depths.
            > That Sistine ceiling above us is our chapel our own Luciferic
            intentions
            > motives, and fantasies that fall in various regions of Sentient
            Soul or
            > Intellectual Soul or shrunken and limited Consciousness Soul, limp
            > dimensions which, of those, of course The Geneva Conventions, brush
            > against the Angelic region of how each human being is a holy
            replication
            > of one of their progressive species in time. That what we hold
            sacred
            > before us is the mighty manifestation of an incarnation chiseled
            and
            > molded for use in a stretch of karmic time and higher soul
            teaching and
            > instruction.
            > > > Here we stand before a human being, a riddle, loaded with
            ancient
            > history and Karma and we carry a collective unconscious, untapped
            memory
            > field rooted in our Etheric and Astral integrations and co-
            designed by
            > the Angels and The Lord of Karma Himself/Herself. ... But we hardly
            > rebuild our grasp of looking at the Representative of Humanity and
            > understanding that the grounds we walk on are the bubbling,
            thrusting
            > imaginations, stalagmite like mineral deposit (speleothem) which
            > projects upwards from a cave floor, are riddled with media
            imaginations
            > and a humanity without a compass as to how the human i am proceeds
            > through this new realm of Michael/ahriman cognition.
            > > > We hardly take the Imagination of the Michael and Christic
            Human
            > Soul raying forth the clarification of Michael Intelligence that
            presses
            > the Ahrimanic Imaginations under our feet with enough seriousness
            to
            > steer our self-inflicted numbness and deliberate dumbness of soul.
            > Humanity, aside from a weakened Michael School, which should be
            able to
            > keep the pathways open for Cosmic Intelligence and Human
            Intelligence to
            > walk or stride forward as the mighty statue strides through Earth
            time,
            > stumbles rather than strides. But how you describe that we are
            wading
            > through upthrusting stalagmite like imaginations that numb
            thinking and
            > education all through the entire compromised and dishonest system
            we
            > drag our children through is really a huffing and puffing effort,
            when
            > it is far easier to have little tea parties herbal teas.
            > > > This hardly dismisses the idea that overhead in each individual
            > there is a unique sistine chapel ceiling of dynamic emotional
            forces
            > that swirl and conform themselves to our subjective wishes. And we
            wish
            > and our wish and our motives flood our souls. And through Spiritual
            > Science we can track wish, desire and motive through the deeper
            layers
            > of Sentient, Intellectual and Consciousness Soul sub-system
            dynamics in
            > the soul workings of the human being. Steiner in his Study of Man
            > refutes the church's egotistic system of repentance. Rather
            resolution
            > and feeling rather that whatever we do, we carry the striving that
            we
            > really could have done it better. None of us have ever really done
            much
            > of anything great, right or improved so much as in inch of the
            world....
            > at least that is the foundation of healthy human soul humility.
            But the
            > Church lamed and lied and mis-fed egotistic impulses that are not
            native
            > to the deeper recessess of our i am. Our karma offers opportunity
            to
            > > > do it right again therefore the quick fix of absolution and
            > repentance that the church has offered as well as money to buy off
            the
            > guilt of kamaloca has helped to shift the forces of the soul away
            from
            > the inner healthy truth of the moral i am.
            > > > Absolution is an integral part of the sacrament of penance and
            > reconciliation. The penitent makes a sacramental confession of all
            > mortal sins to a priest and prays an act of contrition. The priest
            then
            > assigns a penance and offers absolution in the name of the
            Trinity, on
            > behalf of the Church:
            > > > R. S. Study of Man
            > > > http://wn.rsarchive .org/Lectures/ StudyMan/ 19190825a01. html
            > > > "....You can, e.g., have the following idea: something I
            wished to
            > do, or did, was good; or you can have some other idea; but that is
            not
            > what I mean. I mean something that can be faintly heard beneath the
            > impulse of will, but which is still of the nature of will. There is
            > something which always works in the will when we have motives;
            that is,
            > the wish. I do not now mean the strongly developed wishes out of
            which
            > the desires are formed, but an undercurrent of wishes that
            accompany all
            > our motives. They are always present. We perceive this wishing
            > particularly clearly when we carry out something which arises out
            of a
            > motive in our will, and then we think it over and say to
            ourselves; what
            > you did then you could do much better. But what is there we do in
            life,
            > without a feeling that we could have done it better? It would be
            sad if
            > we were completely contented with anything, for there is nothing
            which
            > we could not do better still. And this is where we see the
            difference
            > > > between a man who is somewhat more civilised and one who is
            not so
            > advanced, for the latter always has the tendency to be satisfied
            with
            > himself. The more advanced man never wants to be so thoroughly
            satisfied
            > with himself because he has always in him the soft undertone of a
            wish
            > to do better, even to do differently. There is much sinning in this
            > domain. Men regard it as a tremendously noble thing to repent of a
            deed;
            > but that is not the best that can be done with a deed; for often
            > repentance is based upon sheer egoism: one would like to have done
            > something better in order to be a better man. That is egoistic. Our
            > efforts will only cease to be egoistic when we do not wish to have
            done
            > a thing better than we have done it, but consider it far more
            important
            > to do the same thing better next time. The intention which a man
            has is
            > the more important thing, not the repentance — the endeavour to do
            > the same thing on another occasion. And in this intention wish
            sounds as
            > an
            > > > undertone; so that we may well ask the question: What is this
            > undertone of wish which accompanies our intention? For anyone who
            can
            > really observe the soul this wish is the first element of all that
            > remains over after death. It is something of this remainder which
            we
            > feel when we say: we ought to have done it better: we wish we had
            done
            > it better. In the wish, in the form in which I have described it
            to you,
            > we have something which belongs to the Spirit-Self.
            > > > Now the wish can become more concrete, it can take on a clearer
            > form, Then it becomes similar to an intention. Then there is
            formed a
            > kind of mental picture of how a thing would be done better if it
            had to
            > be done again. I do not, however, lay the greatest stress on the
            mental
            > picture, but on the feeling and the will elements which accompany
            each
            > motive, the intention to do a thing better in a similar case. Here
            the
            > so-called sub-conscious in man plays a prominent part. If in your
            > ordinary consciousness to-day you perform an action out of your own
            > will, you do not necessarily make an idea in your mind of how you
            will
            > do it. But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always
            > forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the
            > will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the
            > same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as
            this.
            > Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in
            you.
            > > >
            > > > That so-called scientific line of thought which calls itself
            > analytical psychology, "psycho-analysis, " talks a lot of nonsense
            about
            > this "second man." This psycho-analysis usually starts from the
            > following classic example in setting forth its principles. I have
            > already told you this story, but it is good to call it to mind
            again. It
            > is as follows: A man gives an evening party at his house, and it is
            > known that, immediately after the party is over, the lady of the
            house
            > is going away to a Spa. There are at the party various people,
            among
            > them a lady. The party is given. The lady of the house is taken to
            the
            > train that she may travel to the Spa. The rest of the party leaves
            and
            > with them the lady already mentioned. She, with the other members
            of the
            > party, is overtaken at a crossroads by a carriage which, coming
            round a
            > corner from another street, is not seen until it is quite close.
            What do
            > the people coming from the party do? Of course they avoid the
            carriage
            > by going
            > > > right and left, with the exception of the lady. She runs as
            fast as
            > she can in front of the horses dawn the middle of the street. The
            > coachman does not stop and the rest of the party are terrified.
            But the
            > lady runs so fast that the others cannot follow her, and she runs
            until
            > she comes to a bridge. And even then it does not occur to her to
            get out
            > of the way. She falls into the water, but she is saved and brought
            back
            > to her late host's house. And there she is able to spend the night.
            > > >
            > > > You find this as an example in many works on psychoanalysis.
            But
            > something in it is always falsely interpreted. For the question
            is: what
            > was at the back of this whole incident? The will of the lady. What
            did
            > she really want to do? She wanted to return to her host's house as
            soon
            > as his wife had gone away, for she was in love with him. This,
            however,
            > was not a conscious wish, but something which had its seat in the
            > sub-conscious. And this sub-consciousness of the second man,
            within us,
            > is often much more shrewd than a man is in his upper
            consciousness. So
            > clever was the sub-conscious in this case that the lady arranged
            the
            > whole proceeding up to the moment in which she fell into the water
            in
            > order to be able to return to her host's house. In fact she saw
            > prophetically that she would be saved. Psycho-analysis tries to
            get at
            > these hidden soul forces, but it only speaks in general of
            a "second
            > man." But we are able to know that there does exist in every man
            what is
            > at
            > > > work in the subconscious soul forces, and that it often shows
            itself
            > to be extraordinarily clever, much cleverer than the ordinary
            activity
            > of the soul.
            > > >
            > > > In every man there dwells, underground, as it were,
            the "other" man.
            > In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always
            makes up
            > his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so
            that
            > always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the
            > unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar
            > occasion
            > > >
            > > > Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention
            become
            > a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and
            the
            > resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the
            Spirit-Man,
            > the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-
            Self.
            > When you then consider man as a being of Will you can find all
            these
            > component parts in him: instinct, impulse, desire and motive, and
            then,
            > playing in as a gentle accompaniment: wish, intention and
            resolution
            > which are already living in Spirit-Self, Life-Spirit, and Spirit-
            Man
            > > >
            > > > This has a great significance in the development of the human
            being.
            > For what is thus present under the surface, waiting for the time
            after
            > death, is expressed in man in image form between birth and death.
            We
            > describe it there in the same words. We experience wish, intention
            and
            > resolution through our mental picturing. But we shall only
            experience
            > wish, intention, resolution as they accord with true manhood when
            these
            > things are developed and nurtured in the right manner. What wish,
            > intention and resolution really are in deeper human nature, does
            not
            > appear in the external man between birth and death. Images of them
            > appear in the life of mental pictures. If you only develop ordinary
            > consciousness you know nothing at all of what "wish" is."
            > > > Bradford concludes;
            > > > The Second Man within us, and the nature of the icy motives, of
            > Ahriman vs the true motives of the higher human core.... not
            discounting
            > as well our general luciferic cravings, reveal the pivot between
            the
            > cunning and clever misleading of our shadow double and that which
            > contains the magnificent cogntive grasp of dynamic forces that
            stirs in
            > our depths as Spirit-Selves, our Life-Spirits and our Spirit-Man.
            In
            > these depths unique forces of the Etheric Christ surface sometimes
            a
            > picture of how some karmic event might take shape and resolve
            itself in
            > the future... And our stunned karmic i am sees how this deep
            picture has
            > issued up from the depths of our being, to resolve some karmic
            error, or
            > failed and damaging event. But humans without a conscience or
            merely an
            > Ahrimanic shell, will dismiss this haunting vision and what will
            ensue
            > are nervous tics and nervous pyschic conditions that are then
            numbed
            > even further and distorted through medical abuses.
            > > > But also we are together surrounded by humanity with tangled,
            > festering and icy motives, gleeful lusts and avarice directed
            selfish
            > designs with no grasp of how these instincts and motives move
            through
            > our will or what soul terrain of Devachan holiness or nightmare we
            > apparently strike from. Even if what moves through our will as
            previous
            > incarnations tendencies that now attract the instinctive soul to
            > political and ahrimanic deceptions we won't, don't and are afraid
            to
            > examine our motives and instincts .. Afraid to bring the clarity of
            > common sense and decency into how we address and treat other human
            > spirits that are standing side by side with us on our destiny
            paths.
            > Because if we do, we enter the sweet complexities of the Michael
            School
            > and the layers of soul and real beings that are bent on
            imprisoning us
            > in our deceptions. NICE!
            > > > Knowing the nature of some of the regions of the soul where icy
            > lies, deceptions and torture, war and human egotism have been fed
            to the
            > point of bloating and repressing common sense and supporting war
            > mongering traitors, false flag deceptions, and schools to promote
            such
            > attitudes puts us in the target line of MSM, Main Stream Media, the
            > military industrial arm of bio-weaponry, torture and fully
            destructive
            > concepts in education and medical science that promote and further
            the
            > For Profit deception of human frivolity in the face of mass
            murder. It
            > also is a juicy opportunity in The Fifth Epoch to gain schooling by
            > seeing, understanding and navigating the deceptions that are
            thrown at
            > us.
            > > > For even now, because of these pre-emptive wars, we drive our
            cars
            > on gas guzzling murder, we go to the grocery and the mall on
            companies
            > that are thriving on murder, thriving on our jobs being required
            and us
            > going to our job on the back of gasoline prices and world karma.
            Evil
            > Ahrimanic decisions that have placed us as guilty of failure to
            stop the
            > monsters from growing. No effort to create wholly different energy
            > efficient autos is seriously considered and boycott and refusal to
            > support idiots in office numbs the complacent intellect, but rather
            > super power, false flag, media driven murder of our fellow human
            beings
            > by our own high ranking officials in order to blame it on some
            group....
            > Jews or Arabs, it makes no difference!
            > > > The lie is deeply rooted in the tangle of human instincts and
            too
            > awful or honest for the chicken meely mouthed christian to wrestle
            with.
            > The deception and the fallacies find root in the darkened
            instinctual
            > double and bypasses our human thinking that is now able to see,
            with
            > Michael Intelligence into the motives of Ahriman or for the few
            who try
            > to see, also into the higher regions of the new Consciousness Soul
            > frontiers of human ethics and warm Christic heart striving. And
            far too
            > slowly, such films like Vendetta and imaginations trickle into the
            soul
            > as Entertainment instead of preliminary schooling with spiritual
            depth
            > and honesty behind them. We are in the midst of Fifth Epoch Michael
            > Schooling and discernment and we are wading through wonderful
            examples
            > of Ahrimanic and Luciferic imaginations as well as challenges to
            > transform these impulses to ever deeper roots of thinking within
            us. To
            > see the inverted Ahrimanic images and like an inverted image
            reverse it
            > > > and set it properly within our higher human striving against
            the
            > inverted image and the inverted logic that humanity wants to adapt
            as
            > normal tendencies.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ------------ --------- --------- ---
            > > > Don't pick lemons.
            > > > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
            > > >
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          • Stephen Hale
            ... direct addressing of the situation. Instead, the pushing away the problems on the faults of Ahriman and his buddies, makes me feel angry and undone.
            Message 5 of 18 , Jun 6, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria <gloriabjork@...> wrote:
              >
              > Steve, thank you for the clear response. I was missing such
              direct addressing of the situation. Instead, the pushing away the
              problems on the faults of Ahriman and his buddies, makes me feel
              angry and undone. English is a good language to communicate. But,
              often I feel that it is also a trap. For some reason, anthroposophy
              in German or in Swedish, even in French, feels less stressful. I
              just dropped another anthroposophic discussion online, because I
              couldn't take the contemption that seems to overwhelm the discourses
              people share. Possibly, anthroposophy is only possible to exist as a
              healthy discipline of thought and living, when applied to a
              socialist society in which so many of the agonies and horrors of the
              consumer's marketsystem won't survive. I may be biased, but in
              America, anthroposophy feels like a consumer's good, like going to
              IKEA or buying for the newest electric appliance. It feels very
              hollow. But, I am an outsider and a foreigner. -Gloria

              Well yes, if you received contemption it was probably on an
              americanist forum for anthroposophy in the spirit of america. But
              here's the important reminder: The buildings were destroyed not by
              any Jihadist war on America or Israel, but by clever soradists out
              of America itself, with their own agenda.

              I was on a forum of this kind myself, run by a phoney who called
              himself an anarchist of the likes of Emma Goldman. Yet, in the
              final analysis, it all boiled down to Emma Goldman; and as we all
              know, nobody listened. She actually had to defend herself after the
              assassination of William McKinley by saying: "so what if one fat
              white guy dies when thousands die every day suffering and starving
              to death".

              But here's the paradox: McKinley was a good guy; for the people all
              the way. One of the few; a Christian who suffered big time. Look
              it up. Goldman was looking more globally to the overall Illuminati
              itself, which Mckinley was not. No, his hand was forced by Teddy
              Rex.

              Steve
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