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Re: Christianity and anthroposophy-Re: [anthroposophy] Re: Chart of Jesus

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  • elaine upton
    Dear CJ, In response to my question of who are we to judge others religion, you ... So, is one dogma cured by asserting another? What you say sounds to me as
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 31, 2000
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      Dear CJ,
      In response to my question of who are we to judge others' religion, you
      write:


      >Resurrection at judgement day is still dogma at least where
      >I live. Also no explicit recognition of even a spirit world
      >(the only spiritual being God).
      >
      >
      >Regards,
      >CJ


      So, is one dogma cured by asserting another? What you say sounds to me as
      dogmatic as anything I've heard from these "emotionally stimulated" ones you
      referred to in your earlier post.

      ARe you here to criticize others or to view them with compassion?

      And am I criticizing you? I trust not. I hope I am observing what is
      happening, one dogma pitted against another.

      Pace e bene,
      elaine



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    • Carl Johansson
      ... me as ... ones you ... The same phenomenon can also be seen in Hinduism, the Puranas which Hinduism builds on were written at a later stage than the Vedas.
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 3, 2000
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        >
        > So, is one dogma cured by asserting another? What you say sounds to
        me as
        > dogmatic as anything I've heard from these "emotionally stimulated"
        ones you
        > referred to in your earlier post.
        >
        The same phenomenon can also be seen in Hinduism, the Puranas which
        Hinduism builds on were written at a later stage than the Vedas. In
        the latter gods are hardly mentioned, while the former seems to be
        for the masses who need something to worship.


        > ARe you here to criticize others or to view them with compassion?
        >
        Since I have an objective view about spirituality, I do feel entitled
        to be ciritical towards anything which does not correspond to the
        facts (as far as I know them through experience). As for criticizing,
        I have only been stating my opinion and some reasoning behind it. It
        was you who asked for the reasoning, to me it seems you are the one
        criticizing.

        Regarding what Steiner says about exoteric Christianity, according to
        him most calling themselves Christian nowadays are actually
        worshipping Jehovah, and he is critical of this.

        http://wn.elib.com/Steiner/Lectures/TwoAnn_index.html

        Regards,
        CJ
      • Carl Johansson
        I should perhaps for completeness add that I suspect the division between exoteric/esoteric is dependant on soul experience ( age ), and that those who are
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 4, 2000
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          I should perhaps for completeness add that
          I suspect the division between exoteric/esoteric
          is dependant on soul experience ("age"), and that
          those who are exoteric in one lifetime might
          become esoteric in a future one. Although I suspect
          that notion would not be any more appealing
          (despite it being part of Steiner's teachings).

          If you want to debate it however, emotional
          judgments are not the way.


          Regards,
          CJ

          > >
          > > So, is one dogma cured by asserting another? What you say sounds
          to
          > me as
          > > dogmatic as anything I've heard from these "emotionally
          stimulated"
          > ones you
          > > referred to in your earlier post.
          > >
          > The same phenomenon can also be seen in Hinduism, the Puranas which
          > Hinduism builds on were written at a later stage than the Vedas. In
          > the latter gods are hardly mentioned, while the former seems to be
          > for the masses who need something to worship.
          >
        • elaine upton
          Dear CJ, To whom are you writing the following? To me on the christianity and anthroposophy thread ? ... Frankly, CJ, I have no interest whatsoever in
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 5, 2000
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            Dear CJ,
            To whom are you writing the following? To me on the "christianity and
            anthroposophy thread"?


            >I should perhaps for completeness add that
            >I suspect the division between exoteric/esoteric
            >is dependant on soul experience ("age"), and that
            >those who are exoteric in one lifetime might
            >become esoteric in a future one. Although I suspect
            >that notion would not be any more appealing
            >(despite it being part of Steiner's teachings).
            >
            >If you want to debate it however, emotional
            >judgments are not the way.
            >
            >
            >Regards,
            >CJ


            Frankly, CJ, I have no interest whatsoever in debating or even in discussing
            anything with you, for the way I sense your tone leads me to find no opening
            to relate to you here. And if you consider that a judgement, so be it. But I
            simply speak of my experience in the best light I can.

            Peace,
            elaine
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          • Carl Johansson
            You have standards for people regarding who is good , better , bad based on Christian values. I have from the start not been talking about this, but about
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 5, 2000
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              You have standards for people regarding who is "good",
              "better", "bad" based on Christian values. I have from
              the start not been talking about this, but about consciousness
              and awareness.

              In eastern esotericism, as the soul incarnates through
              the Earth it becomes more in control with each experience.
              How does it experience? Pain and suffering are strong
              experiences. Why does it suffer? Because it has "sinned"
              (acted against the laws of karma) in the past. So increased
              control (and with it awareness, since it can more easily
              make a stand against the lower nature) in certain ways
              seems to run opposite to the Christian concept of
              "goodness". (Of course the incarnating soul is forced
              to repent through karma in subsequent lives.)

              Steiner calls the above process "aging". On a related note,
              he says that the soul can gain skills in one life
              which are transferred to subsequent lives and builds
              on previous skills.

              To me this seems explain the phenomenon of difference in
              awareness, at least to some degree. If everyone was born
              equally aware, there would be no room for someone like
              Steiner for instance. I am myself ready to accept the
              concept that there are people who are more aware spiritually
              than I am, and also some who are less. Regarding "betterness",
              Steiner says that the only criterion for that should be one's
              actions.


              Regards,
              CJ




              >
              > Frankly, CJ, I have no interest whatsoever in debating or even in
              discussing
              > anything with you, for the way I sense your tone leads me to find
              no opening
              > to relate to you here. And if you consider that a judgement, so be
              it. But I
              > simply speak of my experience in the best light I can.
              >
              > Peace,
              > elaine
              >
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