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Re: The Fabrication of Terror

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  • carol
    Gloria, It s a very strange phenomena in North America that the population seems divided into 2 major groupings. Those who respond to, and possess a tendency
    Message 1 of 18 , Jun 3, 2007
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      Gloria,

      It's a very strange phenomena in North America that the population
      seems divided into 2 major groupings. Those who respond to, and
      possess a tendency to want to think and actually feel `truth' through
      their hearts, and those who adhere to an extreme materialistic
      dictum. There's no arguing with the latter (they seem pretty sealed
      in their belief systems), and their `way' seems to have taken the
      lead on how society will direct itself into the future (especially
      since Bush stole his first mandate). `Theirs' has basically quashed
      the possibility of publicly discussing `issues of dissent' from out
      of a primordial set ignorance; wherein the question of secular
      Jewish rights and the forbidding of a review WW11 events seem to
      exist as the imposed, generalized sensitivities which justify
      distracting everyone from living and viewing what is happening in
      their `very present' lives. (This is a view from 1 angle).

      Basically, if North America were to allowed one lie to be openly
      discussed, the simple act of permitting this would undoubtedly
      (unleash) open the door to (collective) healthy human reflection, and
      this exercise would inevitably turn and focus on many other events
      from out of the near and distant past ( which are presently
      recognized in the form of their lies ex. Aids `biological warfare',
      torture, political assassinations, state run mind control operations,
      the ongoing human disgrace taking place in the Middle East, etc. )

      The mechanisms for `criticizing' are effectively submerged by the
      forces which run society at the moment, and great efforts are in
      place to effectively expand this work. (Subliminal terror tactics on
      the unsuspecting population). Basically the underlying message
      is 'the lies MUST go on' and that 'the state is organising itself
      increasingly to ensure this'.

      Alot of people know about the false flag which 911 represents, but
      they also know that 'dissent'is very risky, and that their 'power of
      vote' has been reduced to child play.

      Which brings us back to the pressing questions of which Anthroposophy
      addresses.





      In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria <gloriabjork@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thank you for your response. My question would be, if the people
      know that this is in function and going on, then why the submission
      and quietness that the culture responds with to such infamous
      machinations? -Gloria
      >
      > Stephen Hale <sardisian01@...>
      wrote: --- In
      anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria <gloriabjork@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I would like to know what do you think about the theories of
      > fabricated terror that circulate in the culture.
      > >
      > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Synt3ed.jpg
      > >
      > > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster_Tarpley
      > >
      > > Gloria
      >
      > The greatest example of fabricated terror, of course, concerns the
      > lie of 9/11 itself. The buildings had already been rigged with
      > explosives in order that if the airplanes had been diverted
      somehow
      > from these targets, then the buildings would have been destroyed
      by
      > the forces of radical islam; from within the infrastructure
      itself.
      > But, once the planes hit their targets, then the explanation of
      the
      > collapse of the twin towers had to do with the force of the planes
      > themselves. It would have been too much to say that the buildings
      > were also rigged with explosives.
      >
      > Thus, both alternates were carefully planned in advance in order
      > that a purely preemptive war on terror could be instigated by the
      > United States. Anthroposophy's concern is that it clearly
      > demonstrates Soradt's third incarnation, and the goals of pure
      > destructive intent, which is why this war on terror also involves
      > the infliction of maximum pain in terms of loss of limbs. Soradt
      > gets pleasure from experiencing people's pain. This needs to be
      > known. In spite of the fact that it is rather incomprehensible,
      it
      > must be known that this is what the true goal is; to inflict as
      much
      > pain and torture as possible in order to possibly defeat the human
      > spirit. The war on terror is such an effort.
      >
      > Steve
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > It's here! Your new message!
      > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
      >
    • Gloria
      this is very interesting to me. i was born and raised in Latin America, and lived in Europe for two decades before coming to America. The clash between what
      Message 2 of 18 , Jun 3, 2007
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        this is very interesting to me.  i was born and raised in Latin America, and lived in Europe for two decades before coming to America.  The clash between what I expected to find and what I found, was a shuttering experience.  It left me without confidence.  But, seeing it from the anthroposophical perspective gives me somehow the feeling that I am not fully alone with these perceptions.


        carol <organicethics@...> wrote:
        Gloria,

        It's a very strange phenomena in North America that the population
        seems divided into 2 major groupings. Those who respond to, and
        possess a tendency to want to think and actually feel `truth' through
        their hearts, and those who adhere to an extreme materialistic
        dictum. There's no arguing with the latter (they seem pretty sealed
        in their belief systems), and their `way' seems to have taken the
        lead on how society will direct itself into the future (especially
        since Bush stole his first mandate). `Theirs' has basically quashed
        the possibility of publicly discussing `issues of dissent' from out
        of a primordial set ignorance; wherein the question of secular
        Jewish rights and the forbidding of a review WW11 events seem to
        exist as the imposed, generalized sensitivities which justify
        distracting everyone from living and viewing what is happening in
        their `very present' lives. (This is a view from 1 angle).

        Basically, if North America were to allowed one lie to be openly
        discussed, the simple act of permitting this would undoubtedly
        (unleash) open the door to (collective) healthy human reflection, and
        this exercise would inevitably turn and focus on many other events
        from out of the near and distant past ( which are presently
        recognized in the form of their lies ex. Aids `biological warfare',
        torture, political assassinations, state run mind control operations,
        the ongoing human disgrace taking place in the Middle East, etc. )

        The mechanisms for `criticizing' are effectively submerged by the
        forces which run society at the moment, and great efforts are in
        place to effectively expand this work. (Subliminal terror tactics on
        the unsuspecting population). Basically the underlying message
        is 'the lies MUST go on' and that 'the state is organising itself
        increasingly to ensure this'.

        Alot of people know about the false flag which 911 represents, but
        they also know that 'dissent'is very risky, and that their 'power of
        vote' has been reduced to child play.

        Which brings us back to the pressing questions of which Anthroposophy
        addresses.

        In anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, Gloria <gloriabjork@ ...> wrote:
        >
        > Thank you for your response. My question would be, if the people
        know that this is in function and going on, then why the submission
        and quietness that the culture responds with to such infamous
        machinations? -Gloria
        >
        > Stephen Hale <sardisian01@ ...>
        wrote: --- In
        anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, Gloria <gloriabjork@ > wrote:
        > >
        > > I would like to know what do you think about the theories of
        > fabricated terror that circulate in the culture.
        > >
        > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Image:Synt3ed. jpg
        > >
        > > en.wikipedia. org/wiki/ Webster_Tarpley
        > >
        > > Gloria
        >
        > The greatest example of fabricated terror, of course, concerns the
        > lie of 9/11 itself. The buildings had already been rigged with
        > explosives in order that if the airplanes had been diverted
        somehow
        > from these targets, then the buildings would have been destroyed
        by
        > the forces of radical islam; from within the infrastructure
        itself.
        > But, once the planes hit their targets, then the explanation of
        the
        > collapse of the twin towers had to do with the force of the planes
        > themselves. It would have been too much to say that the buildings
        > were also rigged with explosives.
        >
        > Thus, both alternates were carefully planned in advance in order
        > that a purely preemptive war on terror could be instigated by the
        > United States. Anthroposophy' s concern is that it clearly
        > demonstrates Soradt's third incarnation, and the goals of pure
        > destructive intent, which is why this war on terror also involves
        > the infliction of maximum pain in terms of loss of limbs. Soradt
        > gets pleasure from experiencing people's pain. This needs to be
        > known. In spite of the fact that it is rather incomprehensible,
        it
        > must be known that this is what the true goal is; to inflict as
        much
        > pain and torture as possible in order to possibly defeat the human
        > spirit. The war on terror is such an effort.
        >
        > Steve
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------ --------- --------- ---
        > It's here! Your new message!
        > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
        >



        It's here! Your new message!
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      • holderlin66
        False Flags Unfurled By Douglas Herman Exclusive to Rense.com 4-25-7 Strange how every terrorist event in the past ten or fifteen years benefited the various
        Message 3 of 18 , Jun 3, 2007
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          False Flags Unfurled
          By Douglas Herman
          Exclusive to Rense.com
          4-25-7

          Strange how every "terrorist" event in the past ten or fifteen years benefited the various imperial governments of Britain, Israel, Australia and the USA. These false flag terror operations help cement power, by spreading terror throughout the victim nation. By spreading the effects of terror--pictures of damage and film interviews of mass hysteria and confusion--the mainstream media of the traumatized country served as an unquestioning, ultra-effective propaganda vehicle. The national media acts as a brilliant, second phase of the false flag operation, by further spreading the terror while muddying the waters to any conflicting evidence or subsequent investigation.
          Let me list a few suspicious events that helped cement power in the four countries. There are dozens, and I;m sertain you can think of many more, but I've only listed six. Each event intended to (A) scapegoat a group or individual, while (B) removing power from the unsuspecting people, while (C ) giving more power to the government, while (D) directing hostility toward the intended group, or individual, while (E) muddying the facts of the story for future reference. If you control the events and control the story than you control the people, for your own purposes.
          1. The Oklahoma City Bombing. Meant to look like an act of terrorism but closer inspection reveals numerous suspicious indicators of a false flag operation. Multiple bombs reported that day. Multiple persons involved. Experts like USAF General Partin (Google), who saw the site, dismissed the notion that a home-made fertilizer bomb could have demolished a concrete reinforced building.
          Fortunately, for those who created the false flag terror operation, the US media kept a lid on doubters after the critical first day---and has ever since---labeling them 'Conspiracy theorists.'
          OKC screamed false flag, then and now. The intended target? The US militia groups, millions of law-abiding patriots and Constitutionalists that had grown significantly after the Waco Massacre by the Clinton/ Reno crime cult. Predictably, a pre-programmed patsy, Timothy McVeigh, was tied to a militia group and blamed for the entire massacre.
          2. The 911 Attack. The most successful false flag attack in America, but assuredly not the last. Probably engineered by more than one country to BENEFIT MORE THAN ONE COUNTRY. Probably a testing ground for several, secretive types of demolition-weaponry within the tower core. Mission: terrorize and confuse Americans while directing the US population's anger toward the Middle East.
          Successful? You bet (thus far). To scapegoat an Islamic group, a group revealed and then reviled within hours and days. To target an ever-widening group to be attacked in the years to come. To contain or control all conflicting evidence. To contain or control all conflicting witnesses. To marginalize, or demonize, all skeptics and whistleblowers (Somewhat successful thus far, but growing less so until the internet can be marginalized). And to allow the corporate-owned, complicit US media free rein to keep a lid on doubts. After the critical first day, the US media has acted as a government bureau by spreading and cementing the official story.
          911: A False Flag Exemplar.
          The purpose of 911 was manifold. To spread fear. To distract the public about critical missing Pentagon trillions. To create a new power elite in as few hands as possible. To create a wider swath of powerful new "enemies," shadowy groups able to attack us here in America. To then create a powerful pretense to attack them and gain possession of their resources; and to destroy as much of the US Constitution as possible and thus cement more power.
          3. The Bali Bombing. Meant to look like an Islamic attack. Purpose: to sow terror and cement hatred of Muslims by terror-striken Australians and get them on board the planned, upcoming, joint attack on Middle East countries. Also, as alleged by some observers, to test new weaponry, perhaps an innovative micro-nuke (see photograph) and to gauge their effects for use against future enemies--foreign or domestic--in future false flag events.
          4. The Port Arthur Massacre.   Meantto look like the work of a lone gunman in a tiny village but vastly too successful. Far too much expertise for the patsy, far too many suspicious anomalies to list. Purpose: to sow terror among peaceful, law-abiding but individualistic Australian gun owners and thus force restrictive laws allowing nationwide gun confiscation.
          And the Port Arthur Massacre worked perfectly. The clueless Aussie media, headed by future Fox mogul, Rupert Murdoch, served almost as a propaganda ministry for the brand new John Howard administration, and brushed all doubts and conflicting evidence away.
          Where it remains hidden today, forever it seems. Reportedly, access to the Port Arthur case is forbidden to investigators for the next 30 years. No CSI for the Port Arthur coverup Aussies, meanwhile, remain virtually weaponless under "benevolent" Big Brother and John Howard.
          5. London Bombing 7-7. Meant to scapegoat Islamic people, of course. (Are we seeing a pattern here?). Served to terrorize Londoners and allow draconian, new power measures while bolstering lagging support of the war in Iraq. Perhaps even served as a punitive strike, to punish Londoners for their lack of war support.
          6. Lebanon-Israel Attack. The wily Israelis, to their credit and everlasting shame, borrowed a play from Hitler and the Nazis. Create a false flag incident at the border and retaliate in the confusion. The Nazis started a war with the weaker country of Poland in 1939. The Israelis attempted to do the same.
          By accusing neighboring Lebanon of capturing two IDF soldiers, Israel claimed a pretext for war. They attacked and invaded Lebanon and the war went badly for the Israelis and Olmert. Thousands of deaths and dismemberments on both sides and the false flag backfired.
          ALL TERROR EVENTS, most importantly, allow beleaguered, often inept leaders (Blair, Bush, Olmert, Howard) to go before the public and pretend to be strong, pretend to be "leaderly," to the terrorized masses. Allegedly under attack, victimized by their own propagandized news organizations, the people seek the solace and protection of their fearless leader, and their government, and embrace them both readily. Helped along by continual doses of hysterical propaganda from the media.
          IT IS ALL AN ACT, however, scripted from the very beginning, from the first explosion to the close up on the fearless leader by the TV news camera, focusing on the resolute expression with the flags or the national seal in the background.
          Whatever weakness the bumbling leader displayed in the weeks, months or years beforehand, can be brushed aside with a few, well-prepared, scripted speeches. Weakness and incompetence can even be overturned, trumped even, by ordering restrictive (fascistic) new measures. See V for Vendetta, as an excellent film example of this fascistic, false leadership.
          False flag events, most importantly of all, serve as a fake, hostile action by some sinister yet vague enemy, requiring some bold, new reaction by the protective government, naturally headed by the leader. Usually the actions--whether laws, restrictions, warnings or declarations (of war)--have already been pre-written. Another clue indicating an obvious false flag operation. One which screams, or should scream, a warning against approaching totalitarianism.
          I am inclined to include the recent shooting at VA-Tech as a possible false flag operation. Same type of Manchurian Candidate, lone gunman as the one at Port Arthur. Same super skilled, remorseless gunman possessing killing power that baffles combat-trained specialists. VA Tech, like Port Arthur, appears to be a black operation for the exact same reasons. Oddly, both massacres occurred in late April, and lawmen either could not or would not intervene.
          But sometimes what is intended to take freedoms away---Second Amendment Right to Bear Arms---can backfire if enough people see through it. If the US government hopes to use Cho as the poster boy for gun restrictions, and believe me they do, they had better restrict the Internet first.
          Oh, wait--They are trying to do that. Another false flag event being prepared as I write this. perhaps some nuke blast to terrify the citizenry, since each event must surpass the former in scope and scale. Vigilance, vigilance, forever the price of liberty.
        • Gloria
          However... the realization that there are others seeing the same, does not make it all become more supportable. At times I feel unsafe, without the feeling
          Message 4 of 18 , Jun 3, 2007
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            However... the realization that there are others seeing the same, does not make it all become more supportable.   At times I feel unsafe, without the feeling of "home" in the culture that seems so ambiguous.  I would like to meet some other anthroposophs in my area, but they seem dispersed on a non-reachable radius.  Another thing I miss terribly is the Christen Gemeinschaft.  There is no church of CG in this area...!  -Gloria. 

            Gloria <gloriabjork@...> wrote:
            this is very interesting to me.  i was born and raised in Latin America, and lived in Europe for two decades before coming to America.  The clash between what I expected to find and what I found, was a shuttering experience.  It left me without confidence.  But, seeing it from the anthroposophical perspective gives me somehow the feeling that I am not fully alone with these perceptions.


            carol <organicethics@ sympatico. ca> wrote:
            Gloria,

            It's a very strange phenomena in North America that the population
            seems divided into 2 major groupings. Those who respond to, and
            possess a tendency to want to think and actually feel `truth' through
            their hearts, and those who adhere to an extreme materialistic
            dictum. There's no arguing with the latter (they seem pretty sealed
            in their belief systems), and their `way' seems to have taken the
            lead on how society will direct itself into the future (especially
            since Bush stole his first mandate). `Theirs' has basically quashed
            the possibility of publicly discussing `issues of dissent' from out
            of a primordial set ignorance; wherein the question of secular
            Jewish rights and the forbidding of a review WW11 events seem to
            exist as the imposed, generalized sensitivities which justify
            distracting everyone from living and viewing what is happening in
            their `very present' lives. (This is a view from 1 angle).

            Basically, if North America were to allowed one lie to be openly
            discussed, the simple act of permitting this would undoubtedly
            (unleash) open the door to (collective) healthy human reflection, and
            this exercise would inevitably turn and focus on many other events
            from out of the near and distant past ( which are presently
            recognized in the form of their lies ex. Aids `biological warfare',
            torture, political assassinations, state run mind control operations,
            the ongoing human disgrace taking place in the Middle East, etc. )

            The mechanisms for `criticizing' are effectively submerged by the
            forces which run society at the moment, and great efforts are in
            place to effectively expand this work. (Subliminal terror tactics on
            the unsuspecting population). Basically the underlying message
            is 'the lies MUST go on' and that 'the state is organising itself
            increasingly to ensure this'.

            Alot of people know about the false flag which 911 represents, but
            they also know that 'dissent'is very risky, and that their 'power of
            vote' has been reduced to child play.

            Which brings us back to the pressing questions of which Anthroposophy
            addresses.

            In anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, Gloria <gloriabjork@ ...> wrote:
            >
            > Thank you for your response. My question would be, if the people
            know that this is in function and going on, then why the submission
            and quietness that the culture responds with to such infamous
            machinations? -Gloria
            >
            > Stephen Hale <sardisian01@ ...>
            wrote: --- In
            anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, Gloria <gloriabjork@ > wrote:
            > >
            > > I would like to know what do you think about the theories of
            > fabricated terror that circulate in the culture.
            > >
            > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Image:Synt3ed. jpg
            > >
            > > en.wikipedia. org/wiki/ Webster_Tarpley
            > >
            > > Gloria
            >
            > The greatest example of fabricated terror, of course, concerns the
            > lie of 9/11 itself. The buildings had already been rigged with
            > explosives in order that if the airplanes had been diverted
            somehow
            > from these targets, then the buildings would have been destroyed
            by
            > the forces of radical islam; from within the infrastructure
            itself.
            > But, once the planes hit their targets, then the explanation of
            the
            > collapse of the twin towers had to do with the force of the planes
            > themselves. It would have been too much to say that the buildings
            > were also rigged with explosives.
            >
            > Thus, both alternates were carefully planned in advance in order
            > that a purely preemptive war on terror could be instigated by the
            > United States. Anthroposophy' s concern is that it clearly
            > demonstrates Soradt's third incarnation, and the goals of pure
            > destructive intent, which is why this war on terror also involves
            > the infliction of maximum pain in terms of loss of limbs. Soradt
            > gets pleasure from experiencing people's pain. This needs to be
            > known. In spite of the fact that it is rather incomprehensible,
            it
            > must be known that this is what the true goal is; to inflict as
            much
            > pain and torture as possible in order to possibly defeat the human
            > spirit. The war on terror is such an effort.
            >
            > Steve
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------ --------- --------- ---
            > It's here! Your new message!
            > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
            >



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          • holderlin66
            Carol, thank you for your clarity in your response to Gloria. And thanks Gloria for standing with a flashlight in the dark. We all miss the Christian
            Message 5 of 18 , Jun 3, 2007
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              Carol,  thank you for your clarity in your response to Gloria. And thanks Gloria for standing with a flashlight in the dark.  We all miss the Christian Community and we are all hardly strong enough to keep our cognitive balance daily when we are usually standing as 1 in 10,000.  Alex Jones comes into my restaurant in Austin Texas frequently and from his base in Austin Texas  the whole context of the Fabrication of terror and False flags are richly explored by him. 

              Ron Paul the current hopeless candidate for President in the current debached and deceptive big money nightmare of American politics. Ron Paul is hopeless because of the problems that Carol, Gloria, Steve and so many others have richly and intelligently described. Hopeless because big media and money want only certain players to play the game that will sustain the immense Ahrimanic deception going on in the shadow instincts of humanity.  Humanity finds itself sinking in the Ahrimanic imaginations and machinations of cultural Ahrimanic deceptions with no sense of struggle or fight.  We truly stand, in the Michael School, to make the obvious clear, that true common sensehood and humanity, specifically our children, are not swallowed Jona like into the numbing maw of Ahrimanic complacency.

              To stand upon the Ahrimanic ground under our feet, the Representative of Humanity was carved by Steiner to show the ground beneath our feetthat  is riddled with deception that the common thinking human cannot get a fix on because of the massive educational deceptions and corporate lies that the human soul is unable to orientate themselves against. Nor turn Ahrimanic thinking right around to Michael thinking. 

               The Representative of Humanity that STeiner carved also has a heady ceiling, a sistine chapel for each soul and every soul has wishes and desires floating on the ceiling or swarming and hunting in the depths.  That Sistine ceiling above us is our chapel  our own Luciferic intentions motives, and fantasies that fall in various regions of Sentient Soul or Intellectual Soul or shrunken and limited Consciousness Soul, limp dimensions which, of those, of course The Geneva Conventions, brush against the Angelic region of how each human being is a holy replication of one of their progressive species in time. That what we hold sacred before us is the mighty manifestation of an incarnation chiseled and molded for use in a stretch of karmic time and higher soul teaching and instruction. 

              Here we stand before a human being, a riddle, loaded with ancient history and Karma and we carry a collective unconscious, untapped memory field rooted in our Etheric and Astral integrations and co-designed by the Angels and The Lord of Karma Himself/Herself.... But we hardly rebuild our grasp of looking at the Representative of Humanity and understanding that the grounds we walk on are the bubbling, thrusting imaginations,  stalagmite like mineral deposit (speleothem) which projects upwards from a cave floor, are riddled with media imaginations and a humanity without a compass as to how the human i am proceeds through this new realm of Michael/ahriman cognition. 

              We hardly take the Imagination of the Michael and Christic Human Soul raying forth the clarification of Michael Intelligence that presses the Ahrimanic Imaginations under our feet with enough seriousness to steer our self-inflicted numbness and deliberate dumbness of soul.  Humanity, aside from a weakened Michael School, which should be able to keep the pathways open for Cosmic Intelligence and Human Intelligence to walk or stride forward as the mighty statue strides through Earth time, stumbles rather than strides. But how you describe that we are wading through upthrusting stalagmite like imaginations that numb thinking and education all through the entire compromised and dishonest system we drag our children through is really a huffing and puffing effort, when it is far easier to have little tea parties herbal teas.

              This hardly dismisses the idea that overhead in each individual there is a unique sistine chapel ceiling of dynamic emotional forces that swirl and conform themselves to our subjective wishes.  And we wish and our wish and our motives flood our souls. And through Spiritual Science we can track wish, desire and motive through the deeper layers of Sentient, Intellectual and Consciousness Soul sub-system dynamics in the soul workings of the human being.  Steiner in his Study of Man refutes the church's egotistic system of repentance.  Rather resolution and feeling rather that whatever we do, we carry the striving that we really could have done it better.  None of us have ever really done much of anything great, right or improved so much as in inch of the world.... at least that is the foundation of healthy human soul humility. But the Church lamed and lied and mis-fed egotistic impulses that are not native to the deeper recessess of our i am.  Our karma offers opportunity to do it right again therefore the quick fix of absolution and repentance that the church has offered as well as money to buy off the guilt of kamaloca has helped to shift the forces of the soul away from the inner healthy truth of the moral i am.

              Absolution is an integral part of the sacrament of penance and reconciliation. The penitent makes a sacramental confession of all mortal sins to a priest and prays an act of contrition. The priest then assigns a penance and offers absolution in the name of the Trinity, on behalf of the Church

              R. S.  Study of Man

              http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/StudyMan/19190825a01.html

              "....You can, e.g., have the following idea: something I wished to do, or did, was good; or you can have some other idea; but that is not what I mean. I mean something that can be faintly heard beneath the impulse of will, but which is still of the nature of will. There is something which always works in the will when we have motives; that is, the wish. I do not now mean the strongly developed wishes out of which the desires are formed, but an undercurrent of wishes that accompany all our motives. They are always present. We perceive this wishing particularly clearly when we carry out something which arises out of a motive in our will, and then we think it over and say to ourselves; what you did then you could do much better. But what is there we do in life, without a feeling that we could have done it better? It would be sad if we were completely contented with anything, for there is nothing which we could not do better still. And this is where we see the difference between a man who is somewhat more civilised and one who is not so advanced, for the latter always has the tendency to be satisfied with himself. The more advanced man never wants to be so thoroughly satisfied with himself because he has always in him the soft undertone of a wish to do better, even to do differently. There is much sinning in this domain. Men regard it as a tremendously noble thing to repent of a deed; but that is not the best that can be done with a deed; for often repentance is based upon sheer egoism: one would like to have done something better in order to be a better man. That is egoistic. Our efforts will only cease to be egoistic when we do not wish to have done a thing better than we have done it, but consider it far more important to do the same thing better next time. The intention which a man has is the more important thing, not the repentance — the endeavour to do the same thing on another occasion. And in this intention wish sounds as an undertone; so that we may well ask the question: What is this undertone of wish which accompanies our intention? For anyone who can really observe the soul this wish is the first element of all that remains over after death. It is something of this remainder which we feel when we say: we ought to have done it better: we wish we had done it better. In the wish, in the form in which I have described it to you, we have something which belongs to the Spirit-Self.

              Now the wish can become more concrete, it can take on a clearer form, Then it becomes similar to an intention. Then there is formed a kind of mental picture of how a thing would be done better if it had to be done again. I do not, however, lay the greatest stress on the mental picture, but on the feeling and the will elements which accompany each motive, the intention to do a thing better in a similar case. Here the so-called sub-conscious in man plays a prominent part. If in your ordinary consciousness to-day you perform an action out of your own will, you do not necessarily make an idea in your mind of how you will do it. But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this. Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you.

              That so-called scientific line of thought which calls itself analytical psychology, "psycho-analysis," talks a lot of nonsense about this "second man." This psycho-analysis usually starts from the following classic example in setting forth its principles. I have already told you this story, but it is good to call it to mind again. It is as follows: A man gives an evening party at his house, and it is known that, immediately after the party is over, the lady of the house is going away to a Spa. There are at the party various people, among them a lady. The party is given. The lady of the house is taken to the train that she may travel to the Spa. The rest of the party leaves and with them the lady already mentioned. She, with the other members of the party, is overtaken at a crossroads by a carriage which, coming round a corner from another street, is not seen until it is quite close. What do the people coming from the party do? Of course they avoid the carriage by going right and left, with the exception of the lady. She runs as fast as she can in front of the horses dawn the middle of the street. The coachman does not stop and the rest of the party are terrified. But the lady runs so fast that the others cannot follow her, and she runs until she comes to a bridge. And even then it does not occur to her to get out of the way. She falls into the water, but she is saved and brought back to her late host's house. And there she is able to spend the night.

              You find this as an example in many works on psychoanalysis. But something in it is always falsely interpreted. For the question is: what was at the back of this whole incident? The will of the lady. What did she really want to do? She wanted to return to her host's house as soon as his wife had gone away, for she was in love with him. This, however, was not a conscious wish, but something which had its seat in the sub-conscious. And this sub-consciousness of the second man, within us, is often much more shrewd than a man is in his upper consciousness. So clever was the sub-conscious in this case that the lady arranged the whole proceeding up to the moment in which she fell into the water in order to be able to return to her host's house. In fact she saw prophetically that she would be saved. Psycho-analysis tries to get at these hidden soul forces, but it only speaks in general of a "second man." But we are able to know that there does exist in every man what is at work in the subconscious soul forces, and that it often shows itself to be extraordinarily clever, much cleverer than the ordinary activity of the soul.

              In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other" man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar occasion

              Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention become a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the Spirit-Man, the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-Self. When you then consider man as a being of Will you can find all these component parts in him: instinct, impulse, desire and motive, and then, playing in as a gentle accompaniment: wish, intention and resolution which are already living in Spirit-Self, Life-Spirit, and Spirit-Man

              This has a great significance in the development of the human being. For what is thus present under the surface, waiting for the time after death, is expressed in man in image form between birth and death. We describe it there in the same words. We experience wish, intention and resolution through our mental picturing. But we shall only experience wish, intention, resolution as they accord with true manhood when these things are developed and nurtured in the right manner. What wish, intention and resolution really are in deeper human nature, does not appear in the external man between birth and death. Images of them appear in the life of mental pictures. If you only develop ordinary consciousness you know nothing at all of what "wish" is."

              Bradford concludes;

              The Second Man within us, and the nature of the icy motives, of Ahriman vs the true motives of the higher human core.... not discounting as well our general luciferic cravings, reveal the pivot between the cunning and clever misleading of our shadow double and that which contains the magnificent cogntive grasp of dynamic forces that stirs in our depths as  Spirit-Selves, our Life-Spirits and our Spirit-Man.  In these depths unique forces of the Etheric Christ surface sometimes a picture of how some karmic event might take shape and resolve itself in the future...  And our stunned karmic i am sees how this deep picture has issued up from the depths of our being, to resolve some karmic error, or failed and damaging event. But humans without a conscience or merely an Ahrimanic shell, will dismiss this haunting vision and what will ensue are nervous tics and nervous pyschic conditions  that are then numbed even further and distorted through medical abuses. 

               But also we are together surrounded by humanity with tangled, festering and icy motives, gleeful lusts and avarice directed selfish designs with no grasp of how these instincts and motives move through our will or what soul terrain of Devachan holiness or nightmare we apparently strike from.  Even if what moves through our will as previous incarnations tendencies that now attract the instinctive soul to political and ahrimanic deceptions we won't, don't and are afraid to examine our motives and instincts ..  Afraid to bring the clarity of common sense and decency into how we address and treat other human spirits that are standing side by side with us on our destiny paths. Because if we do, we enter the sweet complexities of the Michael School and the layers of soul and real beings that are bent on imprisoning us in our deceptions.  NICE!  

              Knowing the nature of some of the regions of the soul where icy lies, deceptions and torture, war and human egotism have been fed to the point of bloating and repressing common sense and supporting war mongering traitors, false flag deceptions, and schools to promote such attitudes puts us in the target line of MSM, Main Stream Media, the military industrial arm of bio-weaponry, torture and fully destructive concepts in education and medical science that promote and further the For Profit deception of human frivolity in the face of mass murder.  It also is a juicy opportunity in The Fifth Epoch to gain schooling by seeing, understanding and navigating the deceptions that are thrown at us. 

              For even now, because of these pre-emptive wars, we drive our cars on gas guzzling murder, we go to the grocery and the mall on companies that are thriving on murder, thriving on our jobs being required and us going to our job on the back of gasoline prices and world karma.  Evil Ahrimanic decisions that have placed us as guilty of failure to stop the monsters from growing. No effort to create wholly different energy efficient autos is seriously considered and boycott and refusal to support idiots in office numbs the complacent intellect,  but rather super power, false flag, media driven murder of our fellow human beings by our own high ranking officials in order to blame it on some group.... Jews or Arabs, it makes no difference!

              The lie is deeply rooted in the tangle of human instincts and too awful or honest for the chicken meely mouthed christian to wrestle with.  The deception and the fallacies find root in the darkened instinctual double and bypasses our human thinking that is now able to see, with Michael Intelligence into the motives of Ahriman or for the few who try to  see, also into  the higher regions of the new Consciousness Soul frontiers of human ethics and warm Christic heart striving.   And far too slowly, such films like Vendetta and imaginations trickle into the soul as Entertainment instead of preliminary schooling with spiritual depth and honesty behind them. We are in the midst of Fifth Epoch Michael Schooling and discernment and we are wading through wonderful examples of Ahrimanic and Luciferic imaginations as well as challenges to transform these impulses to ever deeper roots of thinking within us.  To see the inverted Ahrimanic images and like an inverted image reverse it and set it properly within our higher human striving against the inverted image and the inverted logic that humanity wants to adapt as normal tendencies.   

            • Gloria
              this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany anthroposophy succeeds - as much as
              Message 6 of 18 , Jun 3, 2007
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                this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the beliefs and action is not really met here.  See, in Germany anthroposophy succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people make it be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is just consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to mankind.  However, one can no longer say that it is the way it is, not being what it should be.  Possibly man is attributing to Ahriman much of the load that man alone is creating, and neglecting. 
                -Gloria

                holderlin66 <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                Carol,  thank you for your clarity in your response to Gloria. And thanks Gloria for standing with a flashlight in the dark.  We all miss the Christian Community and we are all hardly strong enough to keep our cognitive balance daily when we are usually standing as 1 in 10,000.  Alex Jones comes into my restaurant in Austin Texas frequently and from his base in Austin Texas  the whole context of the Fabrication of terror and False flags are richly explored by him. 
                Ron Paul the current hopeless candidate for President in the current debached and deceptive big money nightmare of American politics. Ron Paul is hopeless because of the problems that Carol, Gloria, Steve and so many others have richly and intelligently described. Hopeless because big media and money want only certain players to play the game that will sustain the immense Ahrimanic deception going on in the shadow instincts of humanity.  Humanity finds itself sinking in the Ahrimanic imaginations and machinations of cultural Ahrimanic deceptions with no sense of struggle or fight.  We truly stand, in the Michael School, to make the obvious clear, that true common sensehood and humanity, specifically our children, are not swallowed Jona like into the numbing maw of Ahrimanic complacency.
                To stand upon the Ahrimanic ground under our feet, the Representative of Humanity was carved by Steiner to show the ground beneath our feetthat  is riddled with deception that the common thinking human cannot get a fix on because of the massive educational deceptions and corporate lies that the human soul is unable to orientate themselves against. Nor turn Ahrimanic thinking right around to Michael thinking. 
                 The Representative of Humanity that STeiner carved also has a heady ceiling, a sistine chapel for each soul and every soul has wishes and desires floating on the ceiling or swarming and hunting in the depths.  That Sistine ceiling above us is our chapel  our own Luciferic intentions motives, and fantasies that fall in various regions of Sentient Soul or Intellectual Soul or shrunken and limited Consciousness Soul, limp dimensions which, of those, of course The Geneva Conventions, brush against the Angelic region of how each human being is a holy replication of one of their progressive species in time. That what we hold sacred before us is the mighty manifestation of an incarnation chiseled and molded for use in a stretch of karmic time and higher soul teaching and instruction. 
                Here we stand before a human being, a riddle, loaded with ancient history and Karma and we carry a collective unconscious, untapped memory field rooted in our Etheric and Astral integrations and co-designed by the Angels and The Lord of Karma Himself/Herself. ... But we hardly rebuild our grasp of looking at the Representative of Humanity and understanding that the grounds we walk on are the bubbling, thrusting imaginations,  stalagmite like mineral deposit (speleothem) which projects upwards from a cave floor, are riddled with media imaginations and a humanity without a compass as to how the human i am proceeds through this new realm of Michael/ahriman cognition. 
                We hardly take the Imagination of the Michael and Christic Human Soul raying forth the clarification of Michael Intelligence that presses the Ahrimanic Imaginations under our feet with enough seriousness to steer our self-inflicted numbness and deliberate dumbness of soul.  Humanity, aside from a weakened Michael School, which should be able to keep the pathways open for Cosmic Intelligence and Human Intelligence to walk or stride forward as the mighty statue strides through Earth time, stumbles rather than strides. But how you describe that we are wading through upthrusting stalagmite like imaginations that numb thinking and education all through the entire compromised and dishonest system we drag our children through is really a huffing and puffing effort, when it is far easier to have little tea parties herbal teas.
                This hardly dismisses the idea that overhead in each individual there is a unique sistine chapel ceiling of dynamic emotional forces that swirl and conform themselves to our subjective wishes.  And we wish and our wish and our motives flood our souls. And through Spiritual Science we can track wish, desire and motive through the deeper layers of Sentient, Intellectual and Consciousness Soul sub-system dynamics in the soul workings of the human being.  Steiner in his Study of Man refutes the church's egotistic system of repentance.  Rather resolution and feeling rather that whatever we do, we carry the striving that we really could have done it better.  None of us have ever really done much of anything great, right or improved so much as in inch of the world.... at least that is the foundation of healthy human soul humility. But the Church lamed and lied and mis-fed egotistic impulses that are not native to the deeper recessess of our i am.  Our karma offers opportunity to do it right again therefore the quick fix of absolution and repentance that the church has offered as well as money to buy off the guilt of kamaloca has helped to shift the forces of the soul away from the inner healthy truth of the moral i am.
                Absolution is an integral part of the sacrament of penance and reconciliation. The penitent makes a sacramental confession of all mortal sins to a priest and prays an act of contrition. The priest then assigns a penance and offers absolution in the name of the Trinity, on behalf of the Church
                R. S.  Study of Man
                "....You can, e.g., have the following idea: something I wished to do, or did, was good; or you can have some other idea; but that is not what I mean. I mean something that can be faintly heard beneath the impulse of will, but which is still of the nature of will. There is something which always works in the will when we have motives; that is, the wish. I do not now mean the strongly developed wishes out of which the desires are formed, but an undercurrent of wishes that accompany all our motives. They are always present. We perceive this wishing particularly clearly when we carry out something which arises out of a motive in our will, and then we think it over and say to ourselves; what you did then you could do much better. But what is there we do in life, without a feeling that we could have done it better? It would be sad if we were completely contented with anything, for there is nothing which we could not do better still. And this is where we see the difference between a man who is somewhat more civilised and one who is not so advanced, for the latter always has the tendency to be satisfied with himself. The more advanced man never wants to be so thoroughly satisfied with himself because he has always in him the soft undertone of a wish to do better, even to do differently. There is much sinning in this domain. Men regard it as a tremendously noble thing to repent of a deed; but that is not the best that can be done with a deed; for often repentance is based upon sheer egoism: one would like to have done something better in order to be a better man. That is egoistic. Our efforts will only cease to be egoistic when we do not wish to have done a thing better than we have done it, but consider it far more important to do the same thing better next time. The intention which a man has is the more important thing, not the repentance — the endeavour to do the same thing on another occasion. And in this intention wish sounds as an undertone; so that we may well ask the question: What is this undertone of wish which accompanies our intention? For anyone who can really observe the soul this wish is the first element of all that remains over after death. It is something of this remainder which we feel when we say: we ought to have done it better: we wish we had done it better. In the wish, in the form in which I have described it to you, we have something which belongs to the Spirit-Self.
                Now the wish can become more concrete, it can take on a clearer form, Then it becomes similar to an intention. Then there is formed a kind of mental picture of how a thing would be done better if it had to be done again. I do not, however, lay the greatest stress on the mental picture, but on the feeling and the will elements which accompany each motive, the intention to do a thing better in a similar case. Here the so-called sub-conscious in man plays a prominent part. If in your ordinary consciousness to-day you perform an action out of your own will, you do not necessarily make an idea in your mind of how you will do it. But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this. Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you.
                That so-called scientific line of thought which calls itself analytical psychology, "psycho-analysis, " talks a lot of nonsense about this "second man." This psycho-analysis usually starts from the following classic example in setting forth its principles. I have already told you this story, but it is good to call it to mind again. It is as follows: A man gives an evening party at his house, and it is known that, immediately after the party is over, the lady of the house is going away to a Spa. There are at the party various people, among them a lady. The party is given. The lady of the house is taken to the train that she may travel to the Spa. The rest of the party leaves and with them the lady already mentioned. She, with the other members of the party, is overtaken at a crossroads by a carriage which, coming round a corner from another street, is not seen until it is quite close. What do the people coming from the party do? Of course they avoid the carriage by going right and left, with the exception of the lady. She runs as fast as she can in front of the horses dawn the middle of the street. The coachman does not stop and the rest of the party are terrified. But the lady runs so fast that the others cannot follow her, and she runs until she comes to a bridge. And even then it does not occur to her to get out of the way. She falls into the water, but she is saved and brought back to her late host's house. And there she is able to spend the night.
                You find this as an example in many works on psychoanalysis. But something in it is always falsely interpreted. For the question is: what was at the back of this whole incident? The will of the lady. What did she really want to do? She wanted to return to her host's house as soon as his wife had gone away, for she was in love with him. This, however, was not a conscious wish, but something which had its seat in the sub-conscious. And this sub-consciousness of the second man, within us, is often much more shrewd than a man is in his upper consciousness. So clever was the sub-conscious in this case that the lady arranged the whole proceeding up to the moment in which she fell into the water in order to be able to return to her host's house. In fact she saw prophetically that she would be saved. Psycho-analysis tries to get at these hidden soul forces, but it only speaks in general of a "second man." But we are able to know that there does exist in every man what is at work in the subconscious soul forces, and that it often shows itself to be extraordinarily clever, much cleverer than the ordinary activity of the soul.
                In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other" man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar occasion
                Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention become a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the Spirit-Man, the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-Self. When you then consider man as a being of Will you can find all these component parts in him: instinct, impulse, desire and motive, and then, playing in as a gentle accompaniment: wish, intention and resolution which are already living in Spirit-Self, Life-Spirit, and Spirit-Man
                This has a great significance in the development of the human being. For what is thus present under the surface, waiting for the time after death, is expressed in man in image form between birth and death. We describe it there in the same words. We experience wish, intention and resolution through our mental picturing. But we shall only experience wish, intention, resolution as they accord with true manhood when these things are developed and nurtured in the right manner. What wish, intention and resolution really are in deeper human nature, does not appear in the external man between birth and death. Images of them appear in the life of mental pictures. If you only develop ordinary consciousness you know nothing at all of what "wish" is."
                Bradford concludes;
                The Second Man within us, and the nature of the icy motives, of Ahriman vs the true motives of the higher human core.... not discounting as well our general luciferic cravings, reveal the pivot between the cunning and clever misleading of our shadow double and that which contains the magnificent cogntive grasp of dynamic forces that stirs in our depths as  Spirit-Selves, our Life-Spirits and our Spirit-Man.  In these depths unique forces of the Etheric Christ surface sometimes a picture of how some karmic event might take shape and resolve itself in the future...  And our stunned karmic i am sees how this deep picture has issued up from the depths of our being, to resolve some karmic error, or failed and damaging event. But humans without a conscience or merely an Ahrimanic shell, will dismiss this haunting vision and what will ensue are nervous tics and nervous pyschic conditions  that are then numbed even further and distorted through medical abuses. 
                 But also we are together surrounded by humanity with tangled, festering and icy motives, gleeful lusts and avarice directed selfish designs with no grasp of how these instincts and motives move through our will or what soul terrain of Devachan holiness or nightmare we apparently strike from.  Even if what moves through our will as previous incarnations tendencies that now attract the instinctive soul to political and ahrimanic deceptions we won't, don't and are afraid to examine our motives and instincts ..  Afraid to bring the clarity of common sense and decency into how we address and treat other human spirits that are standing side by side with us on our destiny paths. Because if we do, we enter the sweet complexities of the Michael School and the layers of soul and real beings that are bent on imprisoning us in our deceptions.  NICE!  
                Knowing the nature of some of the regions of the soul where icy lies, deceptions and torture, war and human egotism have been fed to the point of bloating and repressing common sense and supporting war mongering traitors, false flag deceptions, and schools to promote such attitudes puts us in the target line of MSM, Main Stream Media, the military industrial arm of bio-weaponry, torture and fully destructive concepts in education and medical science that promote and further the For Profit deception of human frivolity in the face of mass murder.  It also is a juicy opportunity in The Fifth Epoch to gain schooling by seeing, understanding and navigating the deceptions that are thrown at us. 
                For even now, because of these pre-emptive wars, we drive our cars on gas guzzling murder, we go to the grocery and the mall on companies that are thriving on murder, thriving on our jobs being required and us going to our job on the back of gasoline prices and world karma.  Evil Ahrimanic decisions that have placed us as guilty of failure to stop the monsters from growing. No effort to create wholly different energy efficient autos is seriously considered and boycott and refusal to support idiots in office numbs the complacent intellect,  but rather super power, false flag, media driven murder of our fellow human beings by our own high ranking officials in order to blame it on some group.... Jews or Arabs, it makes no difference!
                The lie is deeply rooted in the tangle of human instincts and too awful or honest for the chicken meely mouthed christian to wrestle with.  The deception and the fallacies find root in the darkened instinctual double and bypasses our human thinking that is now able to see, with Michael Intelligence into the motives of Ahriman or for the few who try to  see, also into  the higher regions of the new Consciousness Soul frontiers of human ethics and warm Christic heart striving.   And far too slowly, such films like Vendetta and imaginations trickle into the soul as Entertainment instead of preliminary schooling with spiritual depth and honesty behind them. We are in the midst of Fifth Epoch Michael Schooling and discernment and we are wading through wonderful examples of Ahrimanic and Luciferic imaginations as well as challenges to transform these impulses to ever deeper roots of thinking within us.  To see the inverted Ahrimanic images and like an inverted image reverse it and set it properly within our higher human striving against the inverted image and the inverted logic that humanity wants to adapt as normal tendencies.   


                Don't pick lemons.
                See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

              • carol
                this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany anthroposophy succeeds - as much as
                Message 7 of 18 , Jun 4, 2007
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                  "this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the beliefs and action is not really met here.  See, in Germany anthroposophy succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe , because the people make it be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is just consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to mankind…"

                   

                  I believe that a need has revealed itself to recognize in the most sympathetic manner,  the major (albeit intimate) spiritual differences between various peoples distributed throughout the world. This area of study is ongoing for me,  as are so many other areas of study…

                   

                  From what I know through my own `experience'  and from what I see around me, North Americans do not seem to naturally possess the same spiritual constitution and solid, steadfast understanding which can be seen, to varying degrees,  underlying  individualities from the Middle part of Europe.  Nor do Eastern Europeans seem to carry about them this same inner constitution.

                   

                  Rudolf Steiner differentiated these natural forming underlying constitutions in somewhat of the following.

                   

                  In North Americans,  knowledge of spirit surfaces in an instinctive manner,  in Middle Europe it does so in an intellectual manner and in Eastern Europe it does so  through an inspirational pathway. This is somewhat of a barren overview,  but when observation allows these fundamental distinctions to fill with content,  not only does it permit the possibility for developing warmer rapports with others carrying about them something of a `difference',  but it also opens the way for allowing one the possibility of conceiving of how,  when all these forces work together under a Michaelmic influence, they exist as the  moving forces which humanity uses to advance forward in time, while ensuring harmony with the `life bearing' Spiritual ones of this world and  beyond it.  

                   

                  I visualized these differences in the following manner:  The North American carries his/her spirit forces deep in his pocket (ready to be grabbed and used at any decisive moment),  the middle European wears them as his/her warm, securing vest and the Slavic sees them on the path set before him and under his feet,  leading him/her forward in time, along with the rest of humanity,  into a more spiritualized future.

                   

                  Rudolf Steiner indicated that the Middle European, through his capacity of intellectually interpreting Spirit,  could be brought to act as the bridging (directional?) force between the East and the West.  (?)   This would seem possible since neither the East nor the West seem to intrinsically possess natural forming, solid (full body)capabilities in this/their common domain, even when they engage themselves in Anthroposophical studies.

                   

                  And stepping out of theory,  how and where does this play itself out?

                   

                  The extract of the lecture which Bradford brought forth gives a clue.

                   

                   

                  "But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this. Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you…

                   

                  …In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other" man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar occasion

                  Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention become a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the Spirit-Man, the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-Self. http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/StudyMan/19190825a01.html

                  PS. I gave it a good try!  C.

                   


                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria <gloriabjork@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany anthroposophy succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people make it be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is just consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to mankind. However, one can no longer say that it is the way it is, not being what it should be. Possibly man is attributing to Ahriman much of the load that man alone is creating, and neglecting.
                  > -Gloria
                  >
                  > holderlin66 holderlin66@... wrote:
                  > Carol, thank you for your clarity in your response to Gloria. And thanks Gloria for standing with a flashlight in the dark. We all miss the Christian Community and we are all hardly strong enough to keep our cognitive balance daily when we are usually standing as 1 in 10,000. Alex Jones comes into my restaurant in Austin Texas frequently and from his base in Austin Texas the whole context of the Fabrication of terror and False flags are richly explored by him.
                  > Ron Paul the current hopeless candidate for President in the current debached and deceptive big money nightmare of American politics. Ron Paul is hopeless because of the problems that Carol, Gloria, Steve and so many others have richly and intelligently described. Hopeless because big media and money want only certain players to play the game that will sustain the immense Ahrimanic deception going on in the shadow instincts of humanity. Humanity finds itself sinking in the Ahrimanic imaginations and machinations of cultural Ahrimanic deceptions with no sense of struggle or fight. We truly stand, in the Michael School, to make the obvious clear, that true common sensehood and humanity, specifically our children, are not swallowed Jona like into the numbing maw of Ahrimanic complacency.
                  > To stand upon the Ahrimanic ground under our feet, the Representative of Humanity was carved by Steiner to show the ground beneath our feetthat is riddled with deception that the common thinking human cannot get a fix on because of the massive educational deceptions and corporate lies that the human soul is unable to orientate themselves against. Nor turn Ahrimanic thinking right around to Michael thinking.
                  > The Representative of Humanity that STeiner carved also has a heady ceiling, a sistine chapel for each soul and every soul has wishes and desires floating on the ceiling or swarming and hunting in the depths. That Sistine ceiling above us is our chapel our own Luciferic intentions motives, and fantasies that fall in various regions of Sentient Soul or Intellectual Soul or shrunken and limited Consciousness Soul, limp dimensions which, of those, of course The Geneva Conventions, brush against the Angelic region of how each human being is a holy replication of one of their progressive species in time. That what we hold sacred before us is the mighty manifestation of an incarnation chiseled and molded for use in a stretch of karmic time and higher soul teaching and instruction.
                  > Here we stand before a human being, a riddle, loaded with ancient history and Karma and we carry a collective unconscious, untapped memory field rooted in our Etheric and Astral integrations and co-designed by the Angels and The Lord of Karma Himself/Herself.... But we hardly rebuild our grasp of looking at the Representative of Humanity and understanding that the grounds we walk on are the bubbling, thrusting imaginations, stalagmite like mineral deposit (speleothem) which projects upwards from a cave floor, are riddled with media imaginations and a humanity without a compass as to how the human i am proceeds through this new realm of Michael/ahriman cognition.
                  > We hardly take the Imagination of the Michael and Christic Human Soul raying forth the clarification of Michael Intelligence that presses the Ahrimanic Imaginations under our feet with enough seriousness to steer our self-inflicted numbness and deliberate dumbness of soul. Humanity, aside from a weakened Michael School, which should be able to keep the pathways open for Cosmic Intelligence and Human Intelligence to walk or stride forward as the mighty statue strides through Earth time, stumbles rather than strides. But how you describe that we are wading through upthrusting stalagmite like imaginations that numb thinking and education all through the entire compromised and dishonest system we drag our children through is really a huffing and puffing effort, when it is far easier to have little tea parties herbal teas.
                  > This hardly dismisses the idea that overhead in each individual there is a unique sistine chapel ceiling of dynamic emotional forces that swirl and conform themselves to our subjective wishes. And we wish and our wish and our motives flood our souls. And through Spiritual Science we can track wish, desire and motive through the deeper layers of Sentient, Intellectual and Consciousness Soul sub-system dynamics in the soul workings of the human being. Steiner in his Study of Man refutes the church's egotistic system of repentance. Rather resolution and feeling rather that whatever we do, we carry the striving that we really could have done it better. None of us have ever really done much of anything great, right or improved so much as in inch of the world.... at least that is the foundation of healthy human soul humility. But the Church lamed and lied and mis-fed egotistic impulses that are not native to the deeper recessess of our i am. Our karma offers opportunity to
                  > do it right again therefore the quick fix of absolution and repentance that the church has offered as well as money to buy off the guilt of kamaloca has helped to shift the forces of the soul away from the inner healthy truth of the moral i am.
                  > Absolution is an integral part of the sacrament of penance and reconciliation. The penitent makes a sacramental confession of all mortal sins to a priest and prays an act of contrition. The priest then assigns a penance and offers absolution in the name of the Trinity, on behalf of the Church:
                  > R. S. Study of Man
                  > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/StudyMan/19190825a01.html
                  > "....You can, e.g., have the following idea: something I wished to do, or did, was good; or you can have some other idea; but that is not what I mean. I mean something that can be faintly heard beneath the impulse of will, but which is still of the nature of will. There is something which always works in the will when we have motives; that is, the wish. I do not now mean the strongly developed wishes out of which the desires are formed, but an undercurrent of wishes that accompany all our motives. They are always present. We perceive this wishing particularly clearly when we carry out something which arises out of a motive in our will, and then we think it over and say to ourselves; what you did then you could do much better. But what is there we do in life, without a feeling that we could have done it better? It would be sad if we were completely contented with anything, for there is nothing which we could not do better still. And this is where we see the difference
                  > between a man who is somewhat more civilised and one who is not so advanced, for the latter always has the tendency to be satisfied with himself. The more advanced man never wants to be so thoroughly satisfied with himself because he has always in him the soft undertone of a wish to do better, even to do differently. There is much sinning in this domain. Men regard it as a tremendously noble thing to repent of a deed; but that is not the best that can be done with a deed; for often repentance is based upon sheer egoism: one would like to have done something better in order to be a better man. That is egoistic. Our efforts will only cease to be egoistic when we do not wish to have done a thing better than we have done it, but consider it far more important to do the same thing better next time. The intention which a man has is the more important thing, not the repentance — the endeavour to do the same thing on another occasion. And in this intention wish sounds as an
                  > undertone; so that we may well ask the question: What is this undertone of wish which accompanies our intention? For anyone who can really observe the soul this wish is the first element of all that remains over after death. It is something of this remainder which we feel when we say: we ought to have done it better: we wish we had done it better. In the wish, in the form in which I have described it to you, we have something which belongs to the Spirit-Self.
                  > Now the wish can become more concrete, it can take on a clearer form, Then it becomes similar to an intention. Then there is formed a kind of mental picture of how a thing would be done better if it had to be done again. I do not, however, lay the greatest stress on the mental picture, but on the feeling and the will elements which accompany each motive, the intention to do a thing better in a similar case. Here the so-called sub-conscious in man plays a prominent part. If in your ordinary consciousness to-day you perform an action out of your own will, you do not necessarily make an idea in your mind of how you will do it. But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this. Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you.
                  >
                  > That so-called scientific line of thought which calls itself analytical psychology, "psycho-analysis," talks a lot of nonsense about this "second man." This psycho-analysis usually starts from the following classic example in setting forth its principles. I have already told you this story, but it is good to call it to mind again. It is as follows: A man gives an evening party at his house, and it is known that, immediately after the party is over, the lady of the house is going away to a Spa. There are at the party various people, among them a lady. The party is given. The lady of the house is taken to the train that she may travel to the Spa. The rest of the party leaves and with them the lady already mentioned. She, with the other members of the party, is overtaken at a crossroads by a carriage which, coming round a corner from another street, is not seen until it is quite close. What do the people coming from the party do? Of course they avoid the carriage by going
                  > right and left, with the exception of the lady. She runs as fast as she can in front of the horses dawn the middle of the street. The coachman does not stop and the rest of the party are terrified. But the lady runs so fast that the others cannot follow her, and she runs until she comes to a bridge. And even then it does not occur to her to get out of the way. She falls into the water, but she is saved and brought back to her late host's house. And there she is able to spend the night.
                  >
                  > You find this as an example in many works on psychoanalysis. But something in it is always falsely interpreted. For the question is: what was at the back of this whole incident? The will of the lady. What did she really want to do? She wanted to return to her host's house as soon as his wife had gone away, for she was in love with him. This, however, was not a conscious wish, but something which had its seat in the sub-conscious. And this sub-consciousness of the second man, within us, is often much more shrewd than a man is in his upper consciousness. So clever was the sub-conscious in this case that the lady arranged the whole proceeding up to the moment in which she fell into the water in order to be able to return to her host's house. In fact she saw prophetically that she would be saved. Psycho-analysis tries to get at these hidden soul forces, but it only speaks in general of a "second man." But we are able to know that there does exist in every man what is at
                  > work in the subconscious soul forces, and that it often shows itself to be extraordinarily clever, much cleverer than the ordinary activity of the soul.
                  >
                  > In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other" man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar occasion
                  >
                  > Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention become a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the Spirit-Man, the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-Self. When you then consider man as a being of Will you can find all these component parts in him: instinct, impulse, desire and motive, and then, playing in as a gentle accompaniment: wish, intention and resolution which are already living in Spirit-Self, Life-Spirit, and Spirit-Man
                  >
                  > This has a great significance in the development of the human being. For what is thus present under the surface, waiting for the time after death, is expressed in man in image form between birth and death. We describe it there in the same words. We experience wish, intention and resolution through our mental picturing. But we shall only experience wish, intention, resolution as they accord with true manhood when these things are developed and nurtured in the right manner. What wish, intention and resolution really are in deeper human nature, does not appear in the external man between birth and death. Images of them appear in the life of mental pictures. If you only develop ordinary consciousness you know nothing at all of what "wish" is."
                  > Bradford concludes;
                  > The Second Man within us, and the nature of the icy motives, of Ahriman vs the true motives of the higher human core.... not discounting as well our general luciferic cravings, reveal the pivot between the cunning and clever misleading of our shadow double and that which contains the magnificent cogntive grasp of dynamic forces that stirs in our depths as Spirit-Selves, our Life-Spirits and our Spirit-Man. In these depths unique forces of the Etheric Christ surface sometimes a picture of how some karmic event might take shape and resolve itself in the future... And our stunned karmic i am sees how this deep picture has issued up from the depths of our being, to resolve some karmic error, or failed and damaging event. But humans without a conscience or merely an Ahrimanic shell, will dismiss this haunting vision and what will ensue are nervous tics and nervous pyschic conditions that are then numbed even further and distorted through medical abuses.
                  > But also we are together surrounded by humanity with tangled, festering and icy motives, gleeful lusts and avarice directed selfish designs with no grasp of how these instincts and motives move through our will or what soul terrain of Devachan holiness or nightmare we apparently strike from. Even if what moves through our will as previous incarnations tendencies that now attract the instinctive soul to political and ahrimanic deceptions we won't, don't and are afraid to examine our motives and instincts .. Afraid to bring the clarity of common sense and decency into how we address and treat other human spirits that are standing side by side with us on our destiny paths. Because if we do, we enter the sweet complexities of the Michael School and the layers of soul and real beings that are bent on imprisoning us in our deceptions. NICE!
                  > Knowing the nature of some of the regions of the soul where icy lies, deceptions and torture, war and human egotism have been fed to the point of bloating and repressing common sense and supporting war mongering traitors, false flag deceptions, and schools to promote such attitudes puts us in the target line of MSM, Main Stream Media, the military industrial arm of bio-weaponry, torture and fully destructive concepts in education and medical science that promote and further the For Profit deception of human frivolity in the face of mass murder. It also is a juicy opportunity in The Fifth Epoch to gain schooling by seeing, understanding and navigating the deceptions that are thrown at us.
                  > For even now, because of these pre-emptive wars, we drive our cars on gas guzzling murder, we go to the grocery and the mall on companies that are thriving on murder, thriving on our jobs being required and us going to our job on the back of gasoline prices and world karma. Evil Ahrimanic decisions that have placed us as guilty of failure to stop the monsters from growing. No effort to create wholly different energy efficient autos is seriously considered and boycott and refusal to support idiots in office numbs the complacent intellect, but rather super power, false flag, media driven murder of our fellow human beings by our own high ranking officials in order to blame it on some group.... Jews or Arabs, it makes no difference!
                  > The lie is deeply rooted in the tangle of human instincts and too awful or honest for the chicken meely mouthed christian to wrestle with. The deception and the fallacies find root in the darkened instinctual double and bypasses our human thinking that is now able to see, with Michael Intelligence into the motives of Ahriman or for the few who try to see, also into the higher regions of the new Consciousness Soul frontiers of human ethics and warm Christic heart striving. And far too slowly, such films like Vendetta and imaginations trickle into the soul as Entertainment instead of preliminary schooling with spiritual depth and honesty behind them. We are in the midst of Fifth Epoch Michael Schooling and discernment and we are wading through wonderful examples of Ahrimanic and Luciferic imaginations as well as challenges to transform these impulses to ever deeper roots of thinking within us. To see the inverted Ahrimanic images and like an inverted image reverse it
                  > and set it properly within our higher human striving against the inverted image and the inverted logic that humanity wants to adapt as normal tendencies.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Don't pick lemons.
                  > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                  >

                • Gloria
                  Simply put, I see too much complacency in North American s culture. Steiner may have said it in a more digestible form, but at the moment there is no longer a
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jun 4, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Simply put, I see too much complacency in North American's culture.  Steiner may have said it in a more digestible form, but at the moment there is no longer a division in terms of space or distance, since things (and thoughts) have tended to become pretty much global.  You only need to go to any interesting city of Europe in the summer, and watch the herds of North American tourists wandering up and down the roads.  It is apparent that the exchanges have become more overt, and so the giving and taking.  Under the current conditions of globalization, outsourcing, offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should utilize the perception of Steiner - who lived in the century before the last - as a measure to redefine the current necessity for awakening that underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going through.  Before it may turn too late. 

                    Regards,

                    -Gloria

                    carol <organicethics@...> wrote:
                    "this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the beliefs and action is not really met here.  See, in Germany anthroposophy succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe , because the people make it be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is just consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to mankind…"
                     
                    I believe that a need has revealed itself to recognize in the most sympathetic manner,  the major (albeit intimate) spiritual differences between various peoples distributed throughout the world. This area of study is ongoing for me,  as are so many other areas of study…
                     
                    From what I know through my own `experience'  and from what I see around me, North Americans do not seem to naturally possess the same spiritual constitution and solid, steadfast understanding which can be seen, to varying degrees,  underlying  individualities from the Middle part of Europe.  Nor do Eastern Europeans seem to carry about them this same inner constitution.
                     
                    Rudolf Steiner differentiated these natural forming underlying constitutions in somewhat of the following.
                     
                    In North Americans,  knowledge of spirit surfaces in an instinctive manner,  in Middle Europe it does so in an intellectual manner and in Eastern Europe it does so  through an inspirational pathway. This is somewhat of a barren overview,  but when observation allows these fundamental distinctions to fill with content,  not only does it permit the possibility for developing warmer rapports with others carrying about them something of a `difference' ,  but it also opens the way for allowing one the possibility of conceiving of how,  when all these forces work together under a Michaelmic influence, they exist as the  moving forces which humanity uses to advance forward in time, while ensuring harmony with the `life bearing' Spiritual ones of this world and  beyond it.  
                     
                    I visualized these differences in the following manner:  The North American carries his/her spirit forces deep in his pocket (ready to be grabbed and used at any decisive moment),  the middle European wears them as his/her warm, securing vest and the Slavic sees them on the path set before him and under his feet,  leading him/her forward in time, along with the rest of humanity,  into a more spiritualized future.
                     
                    Rudolf Steiner indicated that the Middle European, through his capacity of intellectually interpreting Spirit,  could be brought to act as the bridging (directional? ) force between the East and the West.  (?)   This would seem possible since neither the East nor the West seem to intrinsically possess natural forming, solid (full body)capabilities in this/their common domain, even when they engage themselves in Anthroposophical studies.
                     
                    And stepping out of theory,  how and where does this play itself out?
                     
                    The extract of the lecture which Bradford brought forth gives a clue.
                     
                     
                    "But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this. Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you…
                     
                    …In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other" man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar occasion
                    Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention become a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the Spirit-Man, the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-Self. http://wn.rsarchive .org/Lectures/ StudyMan/ 19190825a01. html
                    PS. I gave it a good try!  C.
                     

                    --- In anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, Gloria <gloriabjork@ ...> wrote:
                    >
                    > this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany anthroposophy succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people make it be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is just consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to mankind. However, one can no longer say that it is the way it is, not being what it should be. Possibly man is attributing to Ahriman much of the load that man alone is creating, and neglecting.
                    > -Gloria
                    >
                    > holderlin66 holderlin66@ ... wrote:
                    > Carol, thank you for your clarity in your response to Gloria. And thanks Gloria for standing with a flashlight in the dark. We all miss the Christian Community and we are all hardly strong enough to keep our cognitive balance daily when we are usually standing as 1 in 10,000. Alex Jones comes into my restaurant in Austin Texas frequently and from his base in Austin Texas the whole context of the Fabrication of terror and False flags are richly explored by him.
                    > Ron Paul the current hopeless candidate for President in the current debached and deceptive big money nightmare of American politics. Ron Paul is hopeless because of the problems that Carol, Gloria, Steve and so many others have richly and intelligently described. Hopeless because big media and money want only certain players to play the game that will sustain the immense Ahrimanic deception going on in the shadow instincts of humanity. Humanity finds itself sinking in the Ahrimanic imaginations and machinations of cultural Ahrimanic deceptions with no sense of struggle or fight. We truly stand, in the Michael School, to make the obvious clear, that true common sensehood and humanity, specifically our children, are not swallowed Jona like into the numbing maw of Ahrimanic complacency.
                    > To stand upon the Ahrimanic ground under our feet, the Representative of Humanity was carved by Steiner to show the ground beneath our feetthat is riddled with deception that the common thinking human cannot get a fix on because of the massive educational deceptions and corporate lies that the human soul is unable to orientate themselves against. Nor turn Ahrimanic thinking right around to Michael thinking.
                    > The Representative of Humanity that STeiner carved also has a heady ceiling, a sistine chapel for each soul and every soul has wishes and desires floating on the ceiling or swarming and hunting in the depths. That Sistine ceiling above us is our chapel our own Luciferic intentions motives, and fantasies that fall in various regions of Sentient Soul or Intellectual Soul or shrunken and limited Consciousness Soul, limp dimensions which, of those, of course The Geneva Conventions, brush against the Angelic region of how each human being is a holy replication of one of their progressive species in time. That what we hold sacred before us is the mighty manifestation of an incarnation chiseled and molded for use in a stretch of karmic time and higher soul teaching and instruction.
                    > Here we stand before a human being, a riddle, loaded with ancient history and Karma and we carry a collective unconscious, untapped memory field rooted in our Etheric and Astral integrations and co-designed by the Angels and The Lord of Karma Himself/Herself. ... But we hardly rebuild our grasp of looking at the Representative of Humanity and understanding that the grounds we walk on are the bubbling, thrusting imaginations, stalagmite like mineral deposit (speleothem) which projects upwards from a cave floor, are riddled with media imaginations and a humanity without a compass as to how the human i am proceeds through this new realm of Michael/ahriman cognition.
                    > We hardly take the Imagination of the Michael and Christic Human Soul raying forth the clarification of Michael Intelligence that presses the Ahrimanic Imaginations under our feet with enough seriousness to steer our self-inflicted numbness and deliberate dumbness of soul. Humanity, aside from a weakened Michael School, which should be able to keep the pathways open for Cosmic Intelligence and Human Intelligence to walk or stride forward as the mighty statue strides through Earth time, stumbles rather than strides. But how you describe that we are wading through upthrusting stalagmite like imaginations that numb thinking and education all through the entire compromised and dishonest system we drag our children through is really a huffing and puffing effort, when it is far easier to have little tea parties herbal teas.
                    > This hardly dismisses the idea that overhead in each individual there is a unique sistine chapel ceiling of dynamic emotional forces that swirl and conform themselves to our subjective wishes. And we wish and our wish and our motives flood our souls. And through Spiritual Science we can track wish, desire and motive through the deeper layers of Sentient, Intellectual and Consciousness Soul sub-system dynamics in the soul workings of the human being. Steiner in his Study of Man refutes the church's egotistic system of repentance. Rather resolution and feeling rather that whatever we do, we carry the striving that we really could have done it better. None of us have ever really done much of anything great, right or improved so much as in inch of the world.... at least that is the foundation of healthy human soul humility. But the Church lamed and lied and mis-fed egotistic impulses that are not native to the deeper recessess of our i am. Our karma offers opportunity to
                    > do it right again therefore the quick fix of absolution and repentance that the church has offered as well as money to buy off the guilt of kamaloca has helped to shift the forces of the soul away from the inner healthy truth of the moral i am.
                    > Absolution is an integral part of the sacrament of penance and reconciliation. The penitent makes a sacramental confession of all mortal sins to a priest and prays an act of contrition. The priest then assigns a penance and offers absolution in the name of the Trinity, on behalf of the Church:
                    > R. S. Study of Man
                    > http://wn.rsarchive .org/Lectures/ StudyMan/ 19190825a01. html
                    > "....You can, e.g., have the following idea: something I wished to do, or did, was good; or you can have some other idea; but that is not what I mean. I mean something that can be faintly heard beneath the impulse of will, but which is still of the nature of will. There is something which always works in the will when we have motives; that is, the wish. I do not now mean the strongly developed wishes out of which the desires are formed, but an undercurrent of wishes that accompany all our motives. They are always present. We perceive this wishing particularly clearly when we carry out something which arises out of a motive in our will, and then we think it over and say to ourselves; what you did then you could do much better. But what is there we do in life, without a feeling that we could have done it better? It would be sad if we were completely contented with anything, for there is nothing which we could not do better still. And this is where we see the difference
                    > between a man who is somewhat more civilised and one who is not so advanced, for the latter always has the tendency to be satisfied with himself. The more advanced man never wants to be so thoroughly satisfied with himself because he has always in him the soft undertone of a wish to do better, even to do differently. There is much sinning in this domain. Men regard it as a tremendously noble thing to repent of a deed; but that is not the best that can be done with a deed; for often repentance is based upon sheer egoism: one would like to have done something better in order to be a better man. That is egoistic. Our efforts will only cease to be egoistic when we do not wish to have done a thing better than we have done it, but consider it far more important to do the same thing better next time. The intention which a man has is the more important thing, not the repentance — the endeavour to do the same thing on another occasion. And in this intention wish sounds as an
                    > undertone; so that we may well ask the question: What is this undertone of wish which accompanies our intention? For anyone who can really observe the soul this wish is the first element of all that remains over after death. It is something of this remainder which we feel when we say: we ought to have done it better: we wish we had done it better. In the wish, in the form in which I have described it to you, we have something which belongs to the Spirit-Self.
                    > Now the wish can become more concrete, it can take on a clearer form, Then it becomes similar to an intention. Then there is formed a kind of mental picture of how a thing would be done better if it had to be done again. I do not, however, lay the greatest stress on the mental picture, but on the feeling and the will elements which accompany each motive, the intention to do a thing better in a similar case. Here the so-called sub-conscious in man plays a prominent part. If in your ordinary consciousness to-day you perform an action out of your own will, you do not necessarily make an idea in your mind of how you will do it. But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this. Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you.
                    >
                    > That so-called scientific line of thought which calls itself analytical psychology, "psycho-analysis, " talks a lot of nonsense about this "second man." This psycho-analysis usually starts from the following classic example in setting forth its principles. I have already told you this story, but it is good to call it to mind again. It is as follows: A man gives an evening party at his house, and it is known that, immediately after the party is over, the lady of the house is going away to a Spa. There are at the party various people, among them a lady. The party is given. The lady of the house is taken to the train that she may travel to the Spa. The rest of the party leaves and with them the lady already mentioned. She, with the other members of the party, is overtaken at a crossroads by a carriage which, coming round a corner from another street, is not seen until it is quite close. What do the people coming from the party do? Of course they avoid the carriage by going
                    > right and left, with the exception of the lady. She runs as fast as she can in front of the horses dawn the middle of the street. The coachman does not stop and the rest of the party are terrified. But the lady runs so fast that the others cannot follow her, and she runs until she comes to a bridge. And even then it does not occur to her to get out of the way. She falls into the water, but she is saved and brought back to her late host's house. And there she is able to spend the night.
                    >
                    > You find this as an example in many works on psychoanalysis. But something in it is always falsely interpreted. For the question is: what was at the back of this whole incident? The will of the lady. What did she really want to do? She wanted to return to her host's house as soon as his wife had gone away, for she was in love with him. This, however, was not a conscious wish, but something which had its seat in the sub-conscious. And this sub-consciousness of the second man, within us, is often much more shrewd than a man is in his upper consciousness. So clever was the sub-conscious in this case that the lady arranged the whole proceeding up to the moment in which she fell into the water in order to be able to return to her host's house. In fact she saw prophetically that she would be saved. Psycho-analysis tries to get at these hidden soul forces, but it only speaks in general of a "second man." But we are able to know that there does exist in every man what is at
                    > work in the subconscious soul forces, and that it often shows itself to be extraordinarily clever, much cleverer than the ordinary activity of the soul.
                    >
                    > In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other" man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar occasion
                    >
                    > Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention become a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the Spirit-Man, the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-Self. When you then consider man as a being of Will you can find all these component parts in him: instinct, impulse, desire and motive, and then, playing in as a gentle accompaniment: wish, intention and resolution which are already living in Spirit-Self, Life-Spirit, and Spirit-Man
                    >
                    > This has a great significance in the development of the human being. For what is thus present under the surface, waiting for the time after death, is expressed in man in image form between birth and death. We describe it there in the same words. We experience wish, intention and resolution through our mental picturing. But we shall only experience wish, intention, resolution as they accord with true manhood when these things are developed and nurtured in the right manner. What wish, intention and resolution really are in deeper human nature, does not appear in the external man between birth and death. Images of them appear in the life of mental pictures. If you only develop ordinary consciousness you know nothing at all of what "wish" is."
                    > Bradford concludes;
                    > The Second Man within us, and the nature of the icy motives, of Ahriman vs the true motives of the higher human core.... not discounting as well our general luciferic cravings, reveal the pivot between the cunning and clever misleading of our shadow double and that which contains the magnificent cogntive grasp of dynamic forces that stirs in our depths as Spirit-Selves, our Life-Spirits and our Spirit-Man. In these depths unique forces of the Etheric Christ surface sometimes a picture of how some karmic event might take shape and resolve itself in the future... And our stunned karmic i am sees how this deep picture has issued up from the depths of our being, to resolve some karmic error, or failed and damaging event. But humans without a conscience or merely an Ahrimanic shell, will dismiss this haunting vision and what will ensue are nervous tics and nervous pyschic conditions that are then numbed even further and distorted through medical abuses.
                    > But also we are together surrounded by humanity with tangled, festering and icy motives, gleeful lusts and avarice directed selfish designs with no grasp of how these instincts and motives move through our will or what soul terrain of Devachan holiness or nightmare we apparently strike from. Even if what moves through our will as previous incarnations tendencies that now attract the instinctive soul to political and ahrimanic deceptions we won't, don't and are afraid to examine our motives and instincts .. Afraid to bring the clarity of common sense and decency into how we address and treat other human spirits that are standing side by side with us on our destiny paths. Because if we do, we enter the sweet complexities of the Michael School and the layers of soul and real beings that are bent on imprisoning us in our deceptions. NICE!
                    > Knowing the nature of some of the regions of the soul where icy lies, deceptions and torture, war and human egotism have been fed to the point of bloating and repressing common sense and supporting war mongering traitors, false flag deceptions, and schools to promote such attitudes puts us in the target line of MSM, Main Stream Media, the military industrial arm of bio-weaponry, torture and fully destructive concepts in education and medical science that promote and further the For Profit deception of human frivolity in the face of mass murder. It also is a juicy opportunity in The Fifth Epoch to gain schooling by seeing, understanding and navigating the deceptions that are thrown at us.
                    > For even now, because of these pre-emptive wars, we drive our cars on gas guzzling murder, we go to the grocery and the mall on companies that are thriving on murder, thriving on our jobs being required and us going to our job on the back of gasoline prices and world karma. Evil Ahrimanic decisions that have placed us as guilty of failure to stop the monsters from growing. No effort to create wholly different energy efficient autos is seriously considered and boycott and refusal to support idiots in office numbs the complacent intellect, but rather super power, false flag, media driven murder of our fellow human beings by our own high ranking officials in order to blame it on some group.... Jews or Arabs, it makes no difference!
                    > The lie is deeply rooted in the tangle of human instincts and too awful or honest for the chicken meely mouthed christian to wrestle with. The deception and the fallacies find root in the darkened instinctual double and bypasses our human thinking that is now able to see, with Michael Intelligence into the motives of Ahriman or for the few who try to see, also into the higher regions of the new Consciousness Soul frontiers of human ethics and warm Christic heart striving. And far too slowly, such films like Vendetta and imaginations trickle into the soul as Entertainment instead of preliminary schooling with spiritual depth and honesty behind them. We are in the midst of Fifth Epoch Michael Schooling and discernment and we are wading through wonderful examples of Ahrimanic and Luciferic imaginations as well as challenges to transform these impulses to ever deeper roots of thinking within us. To see the inverted Ahrimanic images and like an inverted image reverse it
                    > and set it properly within our higher human striving against the inverted image and the inverted logic that humanity wants to adapt as normal tendencies.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                    > Don't pick lemons.
                    > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                    >


                    Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
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                  • Stephen Hale
                    ... culture. Steiner may have said it in a more digestible form, but at the moment there is no longer a division in terms of space or distance, since things
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jun 4, 2007
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                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria <gloriabjork@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Simply put, I see too much complacency in North American's
                      culture. Steiner may have said it in a more digestible form, but at
                      the moment there is no longer a division in terms of space or
                      distance, since things (and thoughts) have tended to become pretty
                      much global. You only need to go to any interesting city of Europe
                      in the summer, and watch the herds of North American tourists
                      wandering up and down the roads. It is apparent that the exchanges
                      have become more overt, and so the giving and taking. Under the
                      current conditions of globalization, outsourcing, offshoring and the
                      like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should utilize the
                      perception of Steiner - who lived in the century before the last -
                      as a measure to redefine the current necessity for awakening that
                      underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going
                      through. Before it may turn too late.
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      >
                      > -Gloria

                      There are spiritual challenges that exist in America that are
                      unique. Having a war on terror commence in spite of hundreds of
                      thousands of protesters against it, means both that people are very
                      actively against this evil, with its mounting evidence that it was
                      caused by dark adversarial powers wearing suits, and also that
                      protestation doesn't really mean much in the outer sense when we
                      have a president who says: "see, this is what it means to be an
                      American; freedom to protest and speak out. This is what we have
                      here today."! "But we're still going in; we have to in order to
                      disable those WMD's, and bring Sadam Hussein down." So, thanks for
                      protesting but no dice.

                      In certain respects, America is a haven for evil forces coming up
                      from the sub-earthly domains. This continent possessed an
                      extraordinary amount of magnetic power, just as the Eastern regions
                      have a preponderance of electrical forces. Expressed spiritually,
                      these represent Ahriman and Lucifer, respectively. America is
                      unique also because it is populated most largely by Middle and
                      Western Europeans for the past 400 years, leaving its native
                      population largely unknown and mostly extinct today, in favor of
                      this European migration and population. Thus, modern American
                      culture has its roots in Europe in this fifth epoch, where the fifth
                      sub-culture represents Anglo-Saxon and Teutonic heritage.

                      So, this is what comprises the mainstream of America today. Little
                      regard is given to just who, and where from, these original native
                      Americans came from, and how they happened to be here for 10,000
                      years before the colonies from Europe began coming here in 1607.
                      Present day America is proud of its cultural heritage, which is
                      exclusive to any knowledge or interest in the source of these first
                      Americans. But, a thousand years before the first colony was
                      settled at Jamestown, a great deal of interest and knowledge of
                      these people's roots existed, and also the awareness of the presence
                      of ahrimanically-oriented magnetic force sufficient enough to be the
                      cause of organic illnesses. And so, early European studies of the
                      causes of organic illnesses were made by way of passage to America
                      on Viking ships in the seventh and eighth centuries. These were the
                      very first Europeans to come here, a thousand years before John
                      Smith; aboard Norwegian ships rowed by Vikings. They came to study
                      the red-skinned race which populated this country, and who were
                      entirely isolated from any cultural influence from outside.

                      Modern medicine is based on these early studies, which were taken
                      back to Europe for further development. And it was determined that
                      the cause of organic illnesses is due to ahriman taking a certain
                      possession of the physical body just before birth, and working there
                      on an instinctive level. So as can readily be seen today,
                      American's suffer from an ever-increasing array of physical
                      disorders of the organic kind, one of the major symptoms of which is
                      obesity. Americans are also prone to other debilitating influences
                      of the sensory kind, designed to undermine the power of active
                      intellect and concentration, which further affects a general kind of
                      sleepy, non-attentive stupor in people. And this all undermines
                      potential, and serves to make an automaton out of what is
                      ostenstibly supposed to be a free and evolving human being.

                      Ahriman proliferates in America, where his father also resides. His
                      name is Asuras.

                      Steve
                    • carol
                      Under the current conditions of globalization, outsourcing, offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should utilize the perception of
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jun 4, 2007
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                        "Under the current conditions of globalization, outsourcing, offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should utilize the perception of Steiner - who lived in the century before the last - as a measure to redefine the current necessity for awakening that underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going through.  Before it may turn too late."

                         

                        Gloria, I feel that you greatly underestimate `the formative spiritual forces' which Rudolf Steiner left behind through at least his published materials;  in some respects, approx. a century has passed since he lived and though it may seem a great span of time when  viewed from a context of 1 single (our present) earth life, it can also be experienced as a short one when one seriously ponders on the frequency in which significant and deeply pronounced incarnations occur through epics of humanity's history (and becoming).

                         

                        In today's world, the process of becoming familiar with Ahriman's presence within Western culture by engaging oneself in spirit objectivity (spirit concepts) regardless of where one actually lives,  is one of the steps through which  Anthroposophy's occult `properties' can become animated within one's self as well, our collective soul fabric. As anthroposophists, we do wish, in the least,  to offer ourselves as open windows through which Angelic beings may access and influence our earthly world…

                         

                        Your last sentence `Before it may turn too late' seems to express great urgency.  But we do find  through studying spiritual science that humankind's earthly and for that matter heavenly lives unravel within the greatest of complexity.  Taking this into consideration,  your sentence could be still be seen as a call `from the starting line'  to finally wake up, get up and get moving.

                         

                        Rudolf Steiner often addressed his attendees with deep heart forces and within their echo (our individual reading), we should still be able to recognize a call for great and reverent patience. And through truly knowing  this patience,   we may all  come to know what actions are already ongoing through Anthroposophia's earthly presence and how we are presently taking  part in them.

                         

                        This is just one of the humble ways to approach your objections.  C.

                         

                         


                        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria <gloriabjork@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Simply put, I see too much complacency in North American's culture. Steiner may have said it in a more digestible form, but at the moment there is no longer a division in terms of space or distance, since things (and thoughts) have tended to become pretty much global. You only need to go to any interesting city of Europe in the summer, and watch the herds of North American tourists wandering up and down the roads. It is apparent that the exchanges have become more overt, and so the giving and taking. Under the current conditions of globalization, outsourcing, offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should utilize the perception of Steiner - who lived in the century before the last - as a measure to redefine the current necessity for awakening that underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going through. Before it may turn too late.
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        >
                        > -Gloria
                        >
                        > carol organicethics@... wrote:
                        > "this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany anthroposophy succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people make it be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is just consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to mankind…"
                        >
                        > I believe that a need has revealed itself to recognize in the most sympathetic manner, the major (albeit intimate) spiritual differences between various peoples distributed throughout the world. This area of study is ongoing for me, as are so many other areas of study…
                        >
                        > From what I know through my own `experience' and from what I see around me, North Americans do not seem to naturally possess the same spiritual constitution and solid, steadfast understanding which can be seen, to varying degrees, underlying individualities from the Middle part of Europe. Nor do Eastern Europeans seem to carry about them this same inner constitution.
                        >
                        > Rudolf Steiner differentiated these natural forming underlying constitutions in somewhat of the following.
                        >
                        > In North Americans, knowledge of spirit surfaces in an instinctive manner, in Middle Europe it does so in an intellectual manner and in Eastern Europe it does so through an inspirational pathway. This is somewhat of a barren overview, but when observation allows these fundamental distinctions to fill with content, not only does it permit the possibility for developing warmer rapports with others carrying about them something of a `difference', but it also opens the way for allowing one the possibility of conceiving of how, when all these forces work together under a Michaelmic influence, they exist as the moving forces which humanity uses to advance forward in time, while ensuring harmony with the `life bearing' Spiritual ones of this world and beyond it.
                        >
                        > I visualized these differences in the following manner: The North American carries his/her spirit forces deep in his pocket (ready to be grabbed and used at any decisive moment), the middle European wears them as his/her warm, securing vest and the Slavic sees them on the path set before him and under his feet, leading him/her forward in time, along with the rest of humanity, into a more spiritualized future.
                        >
                        > Rudolf Steiner indicated that the Middle European, through his capacity of intellectually interpreting Spirit, could be brought to act as the bridging (directional?) force between the East and the West. (?) This would seem possible since neither the East nor the West seem to intrinsically possess natural forming, solid (full body)capabilities in this/their common domain, even when they engage themselves in Anthroposophical studies.
                        >
                        > And stepping out of theory, how and where does this play itself out?
                        >
                        > The extract of the lecture which Bradford brought forth gives a clue.
                        >
                        >
                        > "But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this. Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you…
                        >
                        > …In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other" man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar occasion
                        > Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention become a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the Spirit-Man, the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-Self. http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/StudyMan/19190825a01.html
                        > PS. I gave it a good try! C.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria gloriabjork@ wrote:
                        > >
                        > > this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany anthroposophy succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people make it be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is just consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to mankind. However, one can no longer say that it is the way it is, not being what it should be. Possibly man is attributing to Ahriman much of the load that man alone is creating, and neglecting.
                        > > -Gloria
                        > >
                        > > holderlin66 holderlin66@ wrote:
                        > > Carol, thank you for your clarity in your response to Gloria. And thanks Gloria for standing with a flashlight in the dark. We all miss the Christian Community and we are all hardly strong enough to keep our cognitive balance daily when we are usually standing as 1 in 10,000. Alex Jones comes into my restaurant in Austin Texas frequently and from his base in Austin Texas the whole context of the Fabrication of terror and False flags are richly explored by him.
                        > > Ron Paul the current hopeless candidate for President in the current debached and deceptive big money nightmare of American politics. Ron Paul is hopeless because of the problems that Carol, Gloria, Steve and so many others have richly and intelligently described. Hopeless because big media and money want only certain players to play the game that will sustain the immense Ahrimanic deception going on in the shadow instincts of humanity. Humanity finds itself sinking in the Ahrimanic imaginations and machinations of cultural Ahrimanic deceptions with no sense of struggle or fight. We truly stand, in the Michael School, to make the obvious clear, that true common sensehood and humanity, specifically our children, are not swallowed Jona like into the numbing maw of Ahrimanic complacency.
                        > > To stand upon the Ahrimanic ground under our feet, the Representative of Humanity was carved by Steiner to show the ground beneath our feetthat is riddled with deception that the common thinking human cannot get a fix on because of the massive educational deceptions and corporate lies that the human soul is unable to orientate themselves against. Nor turn Ahrimanic thinking right around to Michael thinking.
                        > > The Representative of Humanity that STeiner carved also has a heady ceiling, a sistine chapel for each soul and every soul has wishes and desires floating on the ceiling or swarming and hunting in the depths. That Sistine ceiling above us is our chapel our own Luciferic intentions motives, and fantasies that fall in various regions of Sentient Soul or Intellectual Soul or shrunken and limited Consciousness Soul, limp dimensions which, of those, of course The Geneva Conventions, brush against the Angelic region of how each human being is a holy replication of one of their progressive species in time. That what we hold sacred before us is the mighty manifestation of an incarnation chiseled and molded for use in a stretch of karmic time and higher soul teaching and instruction.
                        > > Here we stand before a human being, a riddle, loaded with ancient history and Karma and we carry a collective unconscious, untapped memory field rooted in our Etheric and Astral integrations and co-designed by the Angels and The Lord of Karma Himself/Herself.... But we hardly rebuild our grasp of looking at the Representative of Humanity and understanding that the grounds we walk on are the bubbling, thrusting imaginations, stalagmite like mineral deposit (speleothem) which projects upwards from a cave floor, are riddled with media imaginations and a humanity without a compass as to how the human i am proceeds through this new realm of Michael/ahriman cognition.
                        > > We hardly take the Imagination of the Michael and Christic Human Soul raying forth the clarification of Michael Intelligence that presses the Ahrimanic Imaginations under our feet with enough seriousness to steer our self-inflicted numbness and deliberate dumbness of soul. Humanity, aside from a weakened Michael School, which should be able to keep the pathways open for Cosmic Intelligence and Human Intelligence to walk or stride forward as the mighty statue strides through Earth time, stumbles rather than strides. But how you describe that we are wading through upthrusting stalagmite like imaginations that numb thinking and education all through the entire compromised and dishonest system we drag our children through is really a huffing and puffing effort, when it is far easier to have little tea parties herbal teas.
                        > > This hardly dismisses the idea that overhead in each individual there is a unique sistine chapel ceiling of dynamic emotional forces that swirl and conform themselves to our subjective wishes. And we wish and our wish and our motives flood our souls. And through Spiritual Science we can track wish, desire and motive through the deeper layers of Sentient, Intellectual and Consciousness Soul sub-system dynamics in the soul workings of the human being. Steiner in his Study of Man refutes the church's egotistic system of repentance. Rather resolution and feeling rather that whatever we do, we carry the striving that we really could have done it better. None of us have ever really done much of anything great, right or improved so much as in inch of the world.... at least that is the foundation of healthy human soul humility. But the Church lamed and lied and mis-fed egotistic impulses that are not native to the deeper recessess of our i am. Our karma offers opportunity to
                        > > do it right again therefore the quick fix of absolution and repentance that the church has offered as well as money to buy off the guilt of kamaloca has helped to shift the forces of the soul away from the inner healthy truth of the moral i am.
                        > > Absolution is an integral part of the sacrament of penance and reconciliation. The penitent makes a sacramental confession of all mortal sins to a priest and prays an act of contrition. The priest then assigns a penance and offers absolution in the name of the Trinity, on behalf of the Church:
                        > > R. S. Study of Man
                        > > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/StudyMan/19190825a01.html
                        > > "....You can, e.g., have the following idea: something I wished to do, or did, was good; or you can have some other idea; but that is not what I mean. I mean something that can be faintly heard beneath the impulse of will, but which is still of the nature of will. There is something which always works in the will when we have motives; that is, the wish. I do not now mean the strongly developed wishes out of which the desires are formed, but an undercurrent of wishes that accompany all our motives. They are always present. We perceive this wishing particularly clearly when we carry out something which arises out of a motive in our will, and then we think it over and say to ourselves; what you did then you could do much better. But what is there we do in life, without a feeling that we could have done it better? It would be sad if we were completely contented with anything, for there is nothing which we could not do better still. And this is where we see the difference
                        > > between a man who is somewhat more civilised and one who is not so advanced, for the latter always has the tendency to be satisfied with himself. The more advanced man never wants to be so thoroughly satisfied with himself because he has always in him the soft undertone of a wish to do better, even to do differently. There is much sinning in this domain. Men regard it as a tremendously noble thing to repent of a deed; but that is not the best that can be done with a deed; for often repentance is based upon sheer egoism: one would like to have done something better in order to be a better man. That is egoistic. Our efforts will only cease to be egoistic when we do not wish to have done a thing better than we have done it, but consider it far more important to do the same thing better next time. The intention which a man has is the more important thing, not the repentance — the endeavour to do the same thing on another occasion. And in this intention wish sounds as an
                        > > undertone; so that we may well ask the question: What is this undertone of wish which accompanies our intention? For anyone who can really observe the soul this wish is the first element of all that remains over after death. It is something of this remainder which we feel when we say: we ought to have done it better: we wish we had done it better. In the wish, in the form in which I have described it to you, we have something which belongs to the Spirit-Self.
                        > > Now the wish can become more concrete, it can take on a clearer form, Then it becomes similar to an intention. Then there is formed a kind of mental picture of how a thing would be done better if it had to be done again. I do not, however, lay the greatest stress on the mental picture, but on the feeling and the will elements which accompany each motive, the intention to do a thing better in a similar case. Here the so-called sub-conscious in man plays a prominent part. If in your ordinary consciousness to-day you perform an action out of your own will, you do not necessarily make an idea in your mind of how you will do it. But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this. Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you.
                        > >
                        > > That so-called scientific line of thought which calls itself analytical psychology, "psycho-analysis," talks a lot of nonsense about this "second man." This psycho-analysis usually starts from the following classic example in setting forth its principles. I have already told you this story, but it is good to call it to mind again. It is as follows: A man gives an evening party at his house, and it is known that, immediately after the party is over, the lady of the house is going away to a Spa. There are at the party various people, among them a lady. The party is given. The lady of the house is taken to the train that she may travel to the Spa. The rest of the party leaves and with them the lady already mentioned. She, with the other members of the party, is overtaken at a crossroads by a carriage which, coming round a corner from another street, is not seen until it is quite close. What do the people coming from the party do? Of course they avoid the carriage by going
                        > > right and left, with the exception of the lady. She runs as fast as she can in front of the horses dawn the middle of the street. The coachman does not stop and the rest of the party are terrified. But the lady runs so fast that the others cannot follow her, and she runs until she comes to a bridge. And even then it does not occur to her to get out of the way. She falls into the water, but she is saved and brought back to her late host's house. And there she is able to spend the night.
                        > >
                        > > You find this as an example in many works on psychoanalysis. But something in it is always falsely interpreted. For the question is: what was at the back of this whole incident? The will of the lady. What did she really want to do? She wanted to return to her host's house as soon as his wife had gone away, for she was in love with him. This, however, was not a conscious wish, but something which had its seat in the sub-conscious. And this sub-consciousness of the second man, within us, is often much more shrewd than a man is in his upper consciousness. So clever was the sub-conscious in this case that the lady arranged the whole proceeding up to the moment in which she fell into the water in order to be able to return to her host's house. In fact she saw prophetically that she would be saved. Psycho-analysis tries to get at these hidden soul forces, but it only speaks in general of a "second man." But we are able to know that there does exist in every man what is at
                        > > work in the subconscious soul forces, and that it often shows itself to be extraordinarily clever, much cleverer than the ordinary activity of the soul.
                        > >
                        > > In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other" man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar occasion
                        > >
                        > > Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention become a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the Spirit-Man, the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-Self. When you then consider man as a being of Will you can find all these component parts in him: instinct, impulse, desire and motive, and then, playing in as a gentle accompaniment: wish, intention and resolution which are already living in Spirit-Self, Life-Spirit, and Spirit-Man
                        > >
                        > > This has a great significance in the development of the human being. For what is thus present under the surface, waiting for the time after death, is expressed in man in image form between birth and death. We describe it there in the same words. We experience wish, intention and resolution through our mental picturing. But we shall only experience wish, intention, resolution as they accord with true manhood when these things are developed and nurtured in the right manner. What wish, intention and resolution really are in deeper human nature, does not appear in the external man between birth and death. Images of them appear in the life of mental pictures. If you only develop ordinary consciousness you know nothing at all of what "wish" is."
                        > > Bradford concludes;
                        > > The Second Man within us, and the nature of the icy motives, of Ahriman vs the true motives of the higher human core.... not discounting as well our general luciferic cravings, reveal the pivot between the cunning and clever misleading of our shadow double and that which contains the magnificent cogntive grasp of dynamic forces that stirs in our depths as Spirit-Selves, our Life-Spirits and our Spirit-Man. In these depths unique forces of the Etheric Christ surface sometimes a picture of how some karmic event might take shape and resolve itself in the future... And our stunned karmic i am sees how this deep picture has issued up from the depths of our being, to resolve some karmic error, or failed and damaging event. But humans without a conscience or merely an Ahrimanic shell, will dismiss this haunting vision and what will ensue are nervous tics and nervous pyschic conditions that are then numbed even further and distorted through medical abuses.
                        > > But also we are together surrounded by humanity with tangled, festering and icy motives, gleeful lusts and avarice directed selfish designs with no grasp of how these instincts and motives move through our will or what soul terrain of Devachan holiness or nightmare we apparently strike from. Even if what moves through our will as previous incarnations tendencies that now attract the instinctive soul to political and ahrimanic deceptions we won't, don't and are afraid to examine our motives and instincts .. Afraid to bring the clarity of common sense and decency into how we address and treat other human spirits that are standing side by side with us on our destiny paths. Because if we do, we enter the sweet complexities of the Michael School and the layers of soul and real beings that are bent on imprisoning us in our deceptions. NICE!
                        > > Knowing the nature of some of the regions of the soul where icy lies, deceptions and torture, war and human egotism have been fed to the point of bloating and repressing common sense and supporting war mongering traitors, false flag deceptions, and schools to promote such attitudes puts us in the target line of MSM, Main Stream Media, the military industrial arm of bio-weaponry, torture and fully destructive concepts in education and medical science that promote and further the For Profit deception of human frivolity in the face of mass murder. It also is a juicy opportunity in The Fifth Epoch to gain schooling by seeing, understanding and navigating the deceptions that are thrown at us.
                        > > For even now, because of these pre-emptive wars, we drive our cars on gas guzzling murder, we go to the grocery and the mall on companies that are thriving on murder, thriving on our jobs being required and us going to our job on the back of gasoline prices and world karma. Evil Ahrimanic decisions that have placed us as guilty of failure to stop the monsters from growing. No effort to create wholly different energy efficient autos is seriously considered and boycott and refusal to support idiots in office numbs the complacent intellect, but rather super power, false flag, media driven murder of our fellow human beings by our own high ranking officials in order to blame it on some group.... Jews or Arabs, it makes no difference!
                        > > The lie is deeply rooted in the tangle of human instincts and too awful or honest for the chicken meely mouthed christian to wrestle with. The deception and the fallacies find root in the darkened instinctual double and bypasses our human thinking that is now able to see, with Michael Intelligence into the motives of Ahriman or for the few who try to see, also into the higher regions of the new Consciousness Soul frontiers of human ethics and warm Christic heart striving. And far too slowly, such films like Vendetta and imaginations trickle into the soul as Entertainment instead of preliminary schooling with spiritual depth and honesty behind them. We are in the midst of Fifth Epoch Michael Schooling and discernment and we are wading through wonderful examples of Ahrimanic and Luciferic imaginations as well as challenges to transform these impulses to ever deeper roots of thinking within us. To see the inverted Ahrimanic images and like an inverted image reverse it
                        > > and set it properly within our higher human striving against the inverted image and the inverted logic that humanity wants to adapt as normal tendencies.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ---------------------------------
                        > > Don't pick lemons.
                        > > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
                        > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
                        > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
                        >

                      • Stephen Hale
                        When Gloria writes and says: What do you think about the fabrication of terror coming out of the United States? , doesn t she mean: What do us anthro s think
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jun 5, 2007
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                          When Gloria writes and says: "What do you think about the
                          fabrication of terror coming out of the United States?", doesn't she
                          mean: What do us anthro's think about it? To me, this is pure
                          freudian, because she has to know that we anthro's have thought alot
                          about this fabrication of terror. For myself, I said that the war
                          on terror was caused through pre-planning that involved destroying
                          the World Trade Center buildings by way of demolition implosion.
                          And this is clearly evident. No popular science physics can make an
                          explosion into an implosion. And if that isn't enough evidence, no
                          third building is going to come down in sympathy for the other two
                          the same way. But Americans simply don't want to look at it.

                          Maybe she confuses Americans with those who take pains to look into
                          these matters with a clear eye.

                          Steve

                          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > "Under the current conditions of globalization, outsourcing,
                          > offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should
                          > utilize the perception of Steiner - who lived in the century
                          before the
                          > last - as a measure to redefine the current necessity for
                          awakening that
                          > underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going
                          > through. Before it may turn too late."
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Gloria, I feel that you greatly underestimate `the formative
                          > spiritual forces' which Rudolf Steiner left behind through at least
                          > his published materials; in some respects, approx. a century has
                          passed
                          > since he lived and though it may seem a great span of time when
                          viewed
                          > from a context of 1 single (our present) earth life, it can also be
                          > experienced as a short one when one seriously ponders on the
                          frequency
                          > in which significant and deeply pronounced incarnations occur
                          through
                          > epics of humanity's history (and becoming).
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > In today's world, the process of becoming familiar with
                          > Ahriman's presence within Western culture by engaging oneself in
                          > spirit objectivity (spirit concepts) regardless of where one
                          actually
                          > lives, is one of the steps through which Anthroposophy's occult
                          > `properties' can become animated within one's self as well,
                          > our collective soul fabric. As anthroposophists, we do wish, in the
                          > least, to offer ourselves as open windows through which Angelic
                          beings
                          > may access and influence our earthly world…
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your last sentence `Before it may turn too late' seems to
                          > express great urgency. But we do find through studying spiritual
                          > science that humankind's earthly and for that matter heavenly lives
                          > unravel within the greatest of complexity. Taking this into
                          > consideration, your sentence could be still be seen as a call
                          `from
                          > the starting line' to finally wake up, get up and get moving.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Rudolf Steiner often addressed his attendees with deep heart
                          forces and
                          > within their echo (our individual reading), we should still be
                          able to
                          > recognize a call for great and reverent patience. And through truly
                          > knowing this patience, we may all come to know what actions are
                          > already ongoing through Anthroposophia's earthly presence and how
                          we are
                          > presently taking part in them.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > This is just one of the humble ways to approach your objections.
                          C.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria <gloriabjork@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Simply put, I see too much complacency in North American's
                          culture.
                          > Steiner may have said it in a more digestible form, but at the
                          moment
                          > there is no longer a division in terms of space or distance, since
                          > things (and thoughts) have tended to become pretty much global.
                          You only
                          > need to go to any interesting city of Europe in the summer, and
                          watch
                          > the herds of North American tourists wandering up and down the
                          roads. It
                          > is apparent that the exchanges have become more overt, and so the
                          giving
                          > and taking. Under the current conditions of globalization,
                          outsourcing,
                          > offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should
                          > utilize the perception of Steiner - who lived in the century
                          before the
                          > last - as a measure to redefine the current necessity for
                          awakening that
                          > underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going
                          > through. Before it may turn too late.
                          > >
                          > > Regards,
                          > >
                          > > -Gloria
                          > >
                          > > carol organicethics@ wrote:
                          > > "this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the
                          > beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany
                          anthroposophy
                          > succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people
                          make it
                          > be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is
                          just
                          > consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to
                          > mankind…"
                          > >
                          > > I believe that a need has revealed itself to recognize in the
                          most
                          > sympathetic manner, the major (albeit intimate) spiritual
                          differences
                          > between various peoples distributed throughout the world. This
                          area of
                          > study is ongoing for me, as are so many other areas of study…
                          > >
                          > > From what I know through my own `experience' and from what I see
                          > around me, North Americans do not seem to naturally possess the
                          same
                          > spiritual constitution and solid, steadfast understanding which
                          can be
                          > seen, to varying degrees, underlying individualities from the
                          Middle
                          > part of Europe. Nor do Eastern Europeans seem to carry about them
                          this
                          > same inner constitution.
                          > >
                          > > Rudolf Steiner differentiated these natural forming underlying
                          > constitutions in somewhat of the following.
                          > >
                          > > In North Americans, knowledge of spirit surfaces in an
                          instinctive
                          > manner, in Middle Europe it does so in an intellectual manner and
                          in
                          > Eastern Europe it does so through an inspirational pathway. This is
                          > somewhat of a barren overview, but when observation allows these
                          > fundamental distinctions to fill with content, not only does it
                          permit
                          > the possibility for developing warmer rapports with others carrying
                          > about them something of a `difference', but it also opens the way
                          for
                          > allowing one the possibility of conceiving of how, when all these
                          forces
                          > work together under a Michaelmic influence, they exist as the
                          moving
                          > forces which humanity uses to advance forward in time, while
                          ensuring
                          > harmony with the `life bearing' Spiritual ones of this world and
                          beyond
                          > it.
                          > >
                          > > I visualized these differences in the following manner: The North
                          > American carries his/her spirit forces deep in his pocket (ready
                          to be
                          > grabbed and used at any decisive moment), the middle European
                          wears them
                          > as his/her warm, securing vest and the Slavic sees them on the
                          path set
                          > before him and under his feet, leading him/her forward in time,
                          along
                          > with the rest of humanity, into a more spiritualized future.
                          > >
                          > > Rudolf Steiner indicated that the Middle European, through his
                          > capacity of intellectually interpreting Spirit, could be brought
                          to act
                          > as the bridging (directional?) force between the East and the
                          West. (?)
                          > This would seem possible since neither the East nor the West seem
                          to
                          > intrinsically possess natural forming, solid (full body)
                          capabilities in
                          > this/their common domain, even when they engage themselves in
                          > Anthroposophical studies.
                          > >
                          > > And stepping out of theory, how and where does this play itself
                          out?
                          > >
                          > > The extract of the lecture which Bradford brought forth gives a
                          clue.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > "But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always
                          forms
                          > — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will
                          > — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same
                          > position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this.
                          Above
                          > all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you…
                          > >
                          > > …In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other"
                          > man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who
                          always
                          > makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next
                          time,
                          > so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the
                          intention,
                          > the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a
                          similar
                          > occasion
                          > > Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention
                          become a
                          > resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the
                          > resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the
                          Spirit-Man,
                          > the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-
                          Self.
                          > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/StudyMan/19190825a01.html
                          > > PS. I gave it a good try! C.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria gloriabjork@ wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the
                          > beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany
                          anthroposophy
                          > succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people
                          make it
                          > be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is
                          just
                          > consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to
                          > mankind. However, one can no longer say that it is the way it is,
                          not
                          > being what it should be. Possibly man is attributing to Ahriman
                          much of
                          > the load that man alone is creating, and neglecting.
                          > > > -Gloria
                          > > >
                          > > > holderlin66 holderlin66@ wrote:
                          > > > Carol, thank you for your clarity in your response to Gloria.
                          And
                          > thanks Gloria for standing with a flashlight in the dark. We all
                          miss
                          > the Christian Community and we are all hardly strong enough to
                          keep our
                          > cognitive balance daily when we are usually standing as 1 in
                          10,000.
                          > Alex Jones comes into my restaurant in Austin Texas frequently and
                          from
                          > his base in Austin Texas the whole context of the Fabrication of
                          terror
                          > and False flags are richly explored by him.
                          > > > Ron Paul the current hopeless candidate for President in the
                          current
                          > debached and deceptive big money nightmare of American politics.
                          Ron
                          > Paul is hopeless because of the problems that Carol, Gloria, Steve
                          and
                          > so many others have richly and intelligently described. Hopeless
                          because
                          > big media and money want only certain players to play the game
                          that will
                          > sustain the immense Ahrimanic deception going on in the shadow
                          instincts
                          > of humanity. Humanity finds itself sinking in the Ahrimanic
                          imaginations
                          > and machinations of cultural Ahrimanic deceptions with no sense of
                          > struggle or fight. We truly stand, in the Michael School, to make
                          the
                          > obvious clear, that true common sensehood and humanity,
                          specifically our
                          > children, are not swallowed Jona like into the numbing maw of
                          Ahrimanic
                          > complacency.
                          > > > To stand upon the Ahrimanic ground under our feet, the
                          > Representative of Humanity was carved by Steiner to show the ground
                          > beneath our feetthat is riddled with deception that the common
                          thinking
                          > human cannot get a fix on because of the massive educational
                          deceptions
                          > and corporate lies that the human soul is unable to orientate
                          themselves
                          > against. Nor turn Ahrimanic thinking right around to Michael
                          thinking.
                          > > > The Representative of Humanity that STeiner carved also has a
                          heady
                          > ceiling, a sistine chapel for each soul and every soul has wishes
                          and
                          > desires floating on the ceiling or swarming and hunting in the
                          depths.
                          > That Sistine ceiling above us is our chapel our own Luciferic
                          intentions
                          > motives, and fantasies that fall in various regions of Sentient
                          Soul or
                          > Intellectual Soul or shrunken and limited Consciousness Soul, limp
                          > dimensions which, of those, of course The Geneva Conventions, brush
                          > against the Angelic region of how each human being is a holy
                          replication
                          > of one of their progressive species in time. That what we hold
                          sacred
                          > before us is the mighty manifestation of an incarnation chiseled
                          and
                          > molded for use in a stretch of karmic time and higher soul
                          teaching and
                          > instruction.
                          > > > Here we stand before a human being, a riddle, loaded with
                          ancient
                          > history and Karma and we carry a collective unconscious, untapped
                          memory
                          > field rooted in our Etheric and Astral integrations and co-
                          designed by
                          > the Angels and The Lord of Karma Himself/Herself.... But we hardly
                          > rebuild our grasp of looking at the Representative of Humanity and
                          > understanding that the grounds we walk on are the bubbling,
                          thrusting
                          > imaginations, stalagmite like mineral deposit (speleothem) which
                          > projects upwards from a cave floor, are riddled with media
                          imaginations
                          > and a humanity without a compass as to how the human i am proceeds
                          > through this new realm of Michael/ahriman cognition.
                          > > > We hardly take the Imagination of the Michael and Christic
                          Human
                          > Soul raying forth the clarification of Michael Intelligence that
                          presses
                          > the Ahrimanic Imaginations under our feet with enough seriousness
                          to
                          > steer our self-inflicted numbness and deliberate dumbness of soul.
                          > Humanity, aside from a weakened Michael School, which should be
                          able to
                          > keep the pathways open for Cosmic Intelligence and Human
                          Intelligence to
                          > walk or stride forward as the mighty statue strides through Earth
                          time,
                          > stumbles rather than strides. But how you describe that we are
                          wading
                          > through upthrusting stalagmite like imaginations that numb
                          thinking and
                          > education all through the entire compromised and dishonest system
                          we
                          > drag our children through is really a huffing and puffing effort,
                          when
                          > it is far easier to have little tea parties herbal teas.
                          > > > This hardly dismisses the idea that overhead in each individual
                          > there is a unique sistine chapel ceiling of dynamic emotional
                          forces
                          > that swirl and conform themselves to our subjective wishes. And we
                          wish
                          > and our wish and our motives flood our souls. And through Spiritual
                          > Science we can track wish, desire and motive through the deeper
                          layers
                          > of Sentient, Intellectual and Consciousness Soul sub-system
                          dynamics in
                          > the soul workings of the human being. Steiner in his Study of Man
                          > refutes the church's egotistic system of repentance. Rather
                          resolution
                          > and feeling rather that whatever we do, we carry the striving that
                          we
                          > really could have done it better. None of us have ever really done
                          much
                          > of anything great, right or improved so much as in inch of the
                          world....
                          > at least that is the foundation of healthy human soul humility.
                          But the
                          > Church lamed and lied and mis-fed egotistic impulses that are not
                          native
                          > to the deeper recessess of our i am. Our karma offers opportunity
                          to
                          > > > do it right again therefore the quick fix of absolution and
                          > repentance that the church has offered as well as money to buy off
                          the
                          > guilt of kamaloca has helped to shift the forces of the soul away
                          from
                          > the inner healthy truth of the moral i am.
                          > > > Absolution is an integral part of the sacrament of penance and
                          > reconciliation. The penitent makes a sacramental confession of all
                          > mortal sins to a priest and prays an act of contrition. The priest
                          then
                          > assigns a penance and offers absolution in the name of the
                          Trinity, on
                          > behalf of the Church:
                          > > > R. S. Study of Man
                          > > > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/StudyMan/19190825a01.html
                          > > > "....You can, e.g., have the following idea: something I
                          wished to
                          > do, or did, was good; or you can have some other idea; but that is
                          not
                          > what I mean. I mean something that can be faintly heard beneath the
                          > impulse of will, but which is still of the nature of will. There is
                          > something which always works in the will when we have motives;
                          that is,
                          > the wish. I do not now mean the strongly developed wishes out of
                          which
                          > the desires are formed, but an undercurrent of wishes that
                          accompany all
                          > our motives. They are always present. We perceive this wishing
                          > particularly clearly when we carry out something which arises out
                          of a
                          > motive in our will, and then we think it over and say to
                          ourselves; what
                          > you did then you could do much better. But what is there we do in
                          life,
                          > without a feeling that we could have done it better? It would be
                          sad if
                          > we were completely contented with anything, for there is nothing
                          which
                          > we could not do better still. And this is where we see the
                          difference
                          > > > between a man who is somewhat more civilised and one who is
                          not so
                          > advanced, for the latter always has the tendency to be satisfied
                          with
                          > himself. The more advanced man never wants to be so thoroughly
                          satisfied
                          > with himself because he has always in him the soft undertone of a
                          wish
                          > to do better, even to do differently. There is much sinning in this
                          > domain. Men regard it as a tremendously noble thing to repent of a
                          deed;
                          > but that is not the best that can be done with a deed; for often
                          > repentance is based upon sheer egoism: one would like to have done
                          > something better in order to be a better man. That is egoistic. Our
                          > efforts will only cease to be egoistic when we do not wish to have
                          done
                          > a thing better than we have done it, but consider it far more
                          important
                          > to do the same thing better next time. The intention which a man
                          has is
                          > the more important thing, not the repentance — the endeavour to do
                          > the same thing on another occasion. And in this intention wish
                          sounds as
                          > an
                          > > > undertone; so that we may well ask the question: What is this
                          > undertone of wish which accompanies our intention? For anyone who
                          can
                          > really observe the soul this wish is the first element of all that
                          > remains over after death. It is something of this remainder which
                          we
                          > feel when we say: we ought to have done it better: we wish we had
                          done
                          > it better. In the wish, in the form in which I have described it
                          to you,
                          > we have something which belongs to the Spirit-Self.
                          > > > Now the wish can become more concrete, it can take on a clearer
                          > form, Then it becomes similar to an intention. Then there is
                          formed a
                          > kind of mental picture of how a thing would be done better if it
                          had to
                          > be done again. I do not, however, lay the greatest stress on the
                          mental
                          > picture, but on the feeling and the will elements which accompany
                          each
                          > motive, the intention to do a thing better in a similar case. Here
                          the
                          > so-called sub-conscious in man plays a prominent part. If in your
                          > ordinary consciousness to-day you perform an action out of your own
                          > will, you do not necessarily make an idea in your mind of how you
                          will
                          > do it. But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always
                          > forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the
                          > will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the
                          > same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as
                          this.
                          > Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in
                          you.
                          > > >
                          > > > That so-called scientific line of thought which calls itself
                          > analytical psychology, "psycho-analysis," talks a lot of nonsense
                          about
                          > this "second man." This psycho-analysis usually starts from the
                          > following classic example in setting forth its principles. I have
                          > already told you this story, but it is good to call it to mind
                          again. It
                          > is as follows: A man gives an evening party at his house, and it is
                          > known that, immediately after the party is over, the lady of the
                          house
                          > is going away to a Spa. There are at the party various people,
                          among
                          > them a lady. The party is given. The lady of the house is taken to
                          the
                          > train that she may travel to the Spa. The rest of the party leaves
                          and
                          > with them the lady already mentioned. She, with the other members
                          of the
                          > party, is overtaken at a crossroads by a carriage which, coming
                          round a
                          > corner from another street, is not seen until it is quite close.
                          What do
                          > the people coming from the party do? Of course they avoid the
                          carriage
                          > by going
                          > > > right and left, with the exception of the lady. She runs as
                          fast as
                          > she can in front of the horses dawn the middle of the street. The
                          > coachman does not stop and the rest of the party are terrified.
                          But the
                          > lady runs so fast that the others cannot follow her, and she runs
                          until
                          > she comes to a bridge. And even then it does not occur to her to
                          get out
                          > of the way. She falls into the water, but she is saved and brought
                          back
                          > to her late host's house. And there she is able to spend the night.
                          > > >
                          > > > You find this as an example in many works on psychoanalysis.
                          But
                          > something in it is always falsely interpreted. For the question
                          is: what
                          > was at the back of this whole incident? The will of the lady. What
                          did
                          > she really want to do? She wanted to return to her host's house as
                          soon
                          > as his wife had gone away, for she was in love with him. This,
                          however,
                          > was not a conscious wish, but something which had its seat in the
                          > sub-conscious. And this sub-consciousness of the second man,
                          within us,
                          > is often much more shrewd than a man is in his upper
                          consciousness. So
                          > clever was the sub-conscious in this case that the lady arranged
                          the
                          > whole proceeding up to the moment in which she fell into the water
                          in
                          > order to be able to return to her host's house. In fact she saw
                          > prophetically that she would be saved. Psycho-analysis tries to
                          get at
                          > these hidden soul forces, but it only speaks in general of
                          a "second
                          > man." But we are able to know that there does exist in every man
                          what is
                          > at
                          > > > work in the subconscious soul forces, and that it often shows
                          itself
                          > to be extraordinarily clever, much cleverer than the ordinary
                          activity
                          > of the soul.
                          > > >
                          > > > In every man there dwells, underground, as it were,
                          the "other" man.
                          > In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always
                          makes up
                          > his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so
                          that
                          > always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the
                          > unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar
                          > occasion
                          > > >
                          > > > Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention
                          become
                          > a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and
                          the
                          > resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the
                          Spirit-Man,
                          > the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-
                          Self.
                          > When you then consider man as a being of Will you can find all
                          these
                          > component parts in him: instinct, impulse, desire and motive, and
                          then,
                          > playing in as a gentle accompaniment: wish, intention and
                          resolution
                          > which are already living in Spirit-Self, Life-Spirit, and Spirit-
                          Man
                          > > >
                          > > > This has a great significance in the development of the human
                          being.
                          > For what is thus present under the surface, waiting for the time
                          after
                          > death, is expressed in man in image form between birth and death.
                          We
                          > describe it there in the same words. We experience wish, intention
                          and
                          > resolution through our mental picturing. But we shall only
                          experience
                          > wish, intention, resolution as they accord with true manhood when
                          these
                          > things are developed and nurtured in the right manner. What wish,
                          > intention and resolution really are in deeper human nature, does
                          not
                          > appear in the external man between birth and death. Images of them
                          > appear in the life of mental pictures. If you only develop ordinary
                          > consciousness you know nothing at all of what "wish" is."
                          > > > Bradford concludes;
                          > > > The Second Man within us, and the nature of the icy motives, of
                          > Ahriman vs the true motives of the higher human core.... not
                          discounting
                          > as well our general luciferic cravings, reveal the pivot between
                          the
                          > cunning and clever misleading of our shadow double and that which
                          > contains the magnificent cogntive grasp of dynamic forces that
                          stirs in
                          > our depths as Spirit-Selves, our Life-Spirits and our Spirit-Man.
                          In
                          > these depths unique forces of the Etheric Christ surface sometimes
                          a
                          > picture of how some karmic event might take shape and resolve
                          itself in
                          > the future... And our stunned karmic i am sees how this deep
                          picture has
                          > issued up from the depths of our being, to resolve some karmic
                          error, or
                          > failed and damaging event. But humans without a conscience or
                          merely an
                          > Ahrimanic shell, will dismiss this haunting vision and what will
                          ensue
                          > are nervous tics and nervous pyschic conditions that are then
                          numbed
                          > even further and distorted through medical abuses.
                          > > > But also we are together surrounded by humanity with tangled,
                          > festering and icy motives, gleeful lusts and avarice directed
                          selfish
                          > designs with no grasp of how these instincts and motives move
                          through
                          > our will or what soul terrain of Devachan holiness or nightmare we
                          > apparently strike from. Even if what moves through our will as
                          previous
                          > incarnations tendencies that now attract the instinctive soul to
                          > political and ahrimanic deceptions we won't, don't and are afraid
                          to
                          > examine our motives and instincts .. Afraid to bring the clarity of
                          > common sense and decency into how we address and treat other human
                          > spirits that are standing side by side with us on our destiny
                          paths.
                          > Because if we do, we enter the sweet complexities of the Michael
                          School
                          > and the layers of soul and real beings that are bent on
                          imprisoning us
                          > in our deceptions. NICE!
                          > > > Knowing the nature of some of the regions of the soul where icy
                          > lies, deceptions and torture, war and human egotism have been fed
                          to the
                          > point of bloating and repressing common sense and supporting war
                          > mongering traitors, false flag deceptions, and schools to promote
                          such
                          > attitudes puts us in the target line of MSM, Main Stream Media, the
                          > military industrial arm of bio-weaponry, torture and fully
                          destructive
                          > concepts in education and medical science that promote and further
                          the
                          > For Profit deception of human frivolity in the face of mass
                          murder. It
                          > also is a juicy opportunity in The Fifth Epoch to gain schooling by
                          > seeing, understanding and navigating the deceptions that are
                          thrown at
                          > us.
                          > > > For even now, because of these pre-emptive wars, we drive our
                          cars
                          > on gas guzzling murder, we go to the grocery and the mall on
                          companies
                          > that are thriving on murder, thriving on our jobs being required
                          and us
                          > going to our job on the back of gasoline prices and world karma.
                          Evil
                          > Ahrimanic decisions that have placed us as guilty of failure to
                          stop the
                          > monsters from growing. No effort to create wholly different energy
                          > efficient autos is seriously considered and boycott and refusal to
                          > support idiots in office numbs the complacent intellect, but rather
                          > super power, false flag, media driven murder of our fellow human
                          beings
                          > by our own high ranking officials in order to blame it on some
                          group....
                          > Jews or Arabs, it makes no difference!
                          > > > The lie is deeply rooted in the tangle of human instincts and
                          too
                          > awful or honest for the chicken meely mouthed christian to wrestle
                          with.
                          > The deception and the fallacies find root in the darkened
                          instinctual
                          > double and bypasses our human thinking that is now able to see,
                          with
                          > Michael Intelligence into the motives of Ahriman or for the few
                          who try
                          > to see, also into the higher regions of the new Consciousness Soul
                          > frontiers of human ethics and warm Christic heart striving. And
                          far too
                          > slowly, such films like Vendetta and imaginations trickle into the
                          soul
                          > as Entertainment instead of preliminary schooling with spiritual
                          depth
                          > and honesty behind them. We are in the midst of Fifth Epoch Michael
                          > Schooling and discernment and we are wading through wonderful
                          examples
                          > of Ahrimanic and Luciferic imaginations as well as challenges to
                          > transform these impulses to ever deeper roots of thinking within
                          us. To
                          > see the inverted Ahrimanic images and like an inverted image
                          reverse it
                          > > > and set it properly within our higher human striving against
                          the
                          > inverted image and the inverted logic that humanity wants to adapt
                          as
                          > normal tendencies.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > ---------------------------------
                          > > > Don't pick lemons.
                          > > > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ---------------------------------
                          > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone
                          who
                          > knows.
                          > > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
                          > >
                          >
                        • Gloria
                          Steve, thank you for the clear response. I was missing such direct addressing of the situation. Instead, the pushing away the problems on the faults of
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jun 5, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Steve, thank you for the clear response.  I was missing such direct addressing of the situation.  Instead, the pushing away the problems on the faults of Ahriman and his buddies, makes me feel angry and undone.  English is a good language to communicate. But, often I feel that it is also a trap.  For some reason, anthroposophy in German or in Swedish, even in French, feels less stressful.  I just dropped another anthroposophic discussion online, because I couldn't take the contemption that seems to overwhelm the discourses people share. Possibly, anthroposophy is only possible to exist as a healthy discipline of thought and living, when applied to a socialist society in which so many of the agonies and horrors of the consumer's marketsystem won't survive.  I may be biased, but in America, anthroposophy feels like a consumer's good, like going to IKEA or buying for the newest electric appliance. It feels very hollow.  But, I am an outsider and a foreigner.   -Gloria

                            Stephen Hale <sardisian01@...> wrote:
                            When Gloria writes and says: "What do you think about the
                            fabrication of terror coming out of the United States?", doesn't she
                            mean: What do us anthro's think about it? To me, this is pure
                            freudian, because she has to know that we anthro's have thought alot
                            about this fabrication of terror. For myself, I said that the war
                            on terror was caused through pre-planning that involved destroying
                            the World Trade Center buildings by way of demolition implosion.
                            And this is clearly evident. No popular science physics can make an
                            explosion into an implosion. And if that isn't enough evidence, no
                            third building is going to come down in sympathy for the other two
                            the same way. But Americans simply don't want to look at it.

                            Maybe she confuses Americans with those who take pains to look into
                            these matters with a clear eye.

                            Steve

                            --- In anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, "carol" <organicethics@ ...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > "Under the current conditions of globalization, outsourcing,
                            > offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should
                            > utilize the perception of Steiner - who lived in the century
                            before the
                            > last - as a measure to redefine the current necessity for
                            awakening that
                            > underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going
                            > through. Before it may turn too late."
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Gloria, I feel that you greatly underestimate `the formative
                            > spiritual forces' which Rudolf Steiner left behind through at least
                            > his published materials; in some respects, approx. a century has
                            passed
                            > since he lived and though it may seem a great span of time when
                            viewed
                            > from a context of 1 single (our present) earth life, it can also be
                            > experienced as a short one when one seriously ponders on the
                            frequency
                            > in which significant and deeply pronounced incarnations occur
                            through
                            > epics of humanity's history (and becoming).
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > In today's world, the process of becoming familiar with
                            > Ahriman's presence within Western culture by engaging oneself in
                            > spirit objectivity (spirit concepts) regardless of where one
                            actually
                            > lives, is one of the steps through which Anthroposophy' s occult
                            > `properties' can become animated within one's self as well,
                            > our collective soul fabric. As anthroposophists, we do wish, in the
                            > least, to offer ourselves as open windows through which Angelic
                            beings
                            > may access and influence our earthly world…
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Your last sentence `Before it may turn too late' seems to
                            > express great urgency. But we do find through studying spiritual
                            > science that humankind's earthly and for that matter heavenly lives
                            > unravel within the greatest of complexity. Taking this into
                            > consideration, your sentence could be still be seen as a call
                            `from
                            > the starting line' to finally wake up, get up and get moving.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Rudolf Steiner often addressed his attendees with deep heart
                            forces and
                            > within their echo (our individual reading), we should still be
                            able to
                            > recognize a call for great and reverent patience. And through truly
                            > knowing this patience, we may all come to know what actions are
                            > already ongoing through Anthroposophia' s earthly presence and how
                            we are
                            > presently taking part in them.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > This is just one of the humble ways to approach your objections.
                            C.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, Gloria <gloriabjork@ > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Simply put, I see too much complacency in North American's
                            culture.
                            > Steiner may have said it in a more digestible form, but at the
                            moment
                            > there is no longer a division in terms of space or distance, since
                            > things (and thoughts) have tended to become pretty much global.
                            You only
                            > need to go to any interesting city of Europe in the summer, and
                            watch
                            > the herds of North American tourists wandering up and down the
                            roads. It
                            > is apparent that the exchanges have become more overt, and so the
                            giving
                            > and taking. Under the current conditions of globalization,
                            outsourcing,
                            > offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should
                            > utilize the perception of Steiner - who lived in the century
                            before the
                            > last - as a measure to redefine the current necessity for
                            awakening that
                            > underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going
                            > through. Before it may turn too late.
                            > >
                            > > Regards,
                            > >
                            > > -Gloria
                            > >
                            > > carol organicethics@ wrote:
                            > > "this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the
                            > beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany
                            anthroposophy
                            > succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people
                            make it
                            > be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is
                            just
                            > consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to
                            > mankind…"
                            > >
                            > > I believe that a need has revealed itself to recognize in the
                            most
                            > sympathetic manner, the major (albeit intimate) spiritual
                            differences
                            > between various peoples distributed throughout the world. This
                            area of
                            > study is ongoing for me, as are so many other areas of study…
                            > >
                            > > From what I know through my own `experience' and from what I see
                            > around me, North Americans do not seem to naturally possess the
                            same
                            > spiritual constitution and solid, steadfast understanding which
                            can be
                            > seen, to varying degrees, underlying individualities from the
                            Middle
                            > part of Europe. Nor do Eastern Europeans seem to carry about them
                            this
                            > same inner constitution.
                            > >
                            > > Rudolf Steiner differentiated these natural forming underlying
                            > constitutions in somewhat of the following.
                            > >
                            > > In North Americans, knowledge of spirit surfaces in an
                            instinctive
                            > manner, in Middle Europe it does so in an intellectual manner and
                            in
                            > Eastern Europe it does so through an inspirational pathway. This is
                            > somewhat of a barren overview, but when observation allows these
                            > fundamental distinctions to fill with content, not only does it
                            permit
                            > the possibility for developing warmer rapports with others carrying
                            > about them something of a `difference' , but it also opens the way
                            for
                            > allowing one the possibility of conceiving of how, when all these
                            forces
                            > work together under a Michaelmic influence, they exist as the
                            moving
                            > forces which humanity uses to advance forward in time, while
                            ensuring
                            > harmony with the `life bearing' Spiritual ones of this world and
                            beyond
                            > it.
                            > >
                            > > I visualized these differences in the following manner: The North
                            > American carries his/her spirit forces deep in his pocket (ready
                            to be
                            > grabbed and used at any decisive moment), the middle European
                            wears them
                            > as his/her warm, securing vest and the Slavic sees them on the
                            path set
                            > before him and under his feet, leading him/her forward in time,
                            along
                            > with the rest of humanity, into a more spiritualized future.
                            > >
                            > > Rudolf Steiner indicated that the Middle European, through his
                            > capacity of intellectually interpreting Spirit, could be brought
                            to act
                            > as the bridging (directional? ) force between the East and the
                            West. (?)
                            > This would seem possible since neither the East nor the West seem
                            to
                            > intrinsically possess natural forming, solid (full body)
                            capabilities in
                            > this/their common domain, even when they engage themselves in
                            > Anthroposophical studies.
                            > >
                            > > And stepping out of theory, how and where does this play itself
                            out?
                            > >
                            > > The extract of the lecture which Bradford brought forth gives a
                            clue.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > "But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always
                            forms
                            > — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will
                            > — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same
                            > position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this.
                            Above
                            > all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you…
                            > >
                            > > …In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other"
                            > man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who
                            always
                            > makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next
                            time,
                            > so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the
                            intention,
                            > the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a
                            similar
                            > occasion
                            > > Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention
                            become a
                            > resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the
                            > resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the
                            Spirit-Man,
                            > the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-
                            Self.
                            > http://wn.rsarchive .org/Lectures/ StudyMan/ 19190825a01. html
                            > > PS. I gave it a good try! C.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, Gloria gloriabjork@ wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the
                            > beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany
                            anthroposophy
                            > succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people
                            make it
                            > be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is
                            just
                            > consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to
                            > mankind. However, one can no longer say that it is the way it is,
                            not
                            > being what it should be. Possibly man is attributing to Ahriman
                            much of
                            > the load that man alone is creating, and neglecting.
                            > > > -Gloria
                            > > >
                            > > > holderlin66 holderlin66@ wrote:
                            > > > Carol, thank you for your clarity in your response to Gloria.
                            And
                            > thanks Gloria for standing with a flashlight in the dark. We all
                            miss
                            > the Christian Community and we are all hardly strong enough to
                            keep our
                            > cognitive balance daily when we are usually standing as 1 in
                            10,000.
                            > Alex Jones comes into my restaurant in Austin Texas frequently and
                            from
                            > his base in Austin Texas the whole context of the Fabrication of
                            terror
                            > and False flags are richly explored by him.
                            > > > Ron Paul the current hopeless candidate for President in the
                            current
                            > debached and deceptive big money nightmare of American politics.
                            Ron
                            > Paul is hopeless because of the problems that Carol, Gloria, Steve
                            and
                            > so many others have richly and intelligently described. Hopeless
                            because
                            > big media and money want only certain players to play the game
                            that will
                            > sustain the immense Ahrimanic deception going on in the shadow
                            instincts
                            > of humanity. Humanity finds itself sinking in the Ahrimanic
                            imaginations
                            > and machinations of cultural Ahrimanic deceptions with no sense of
                            > struggle or fight. We truly stand, in the Michael School, to make
                            the
                            > obvious clear, that true common sensehood and humanity,
                            specifically our
                            > children, are not swallowed Jona like into the numbing maw of
                            Ahrimanic
                            > complacency.
                            > > > To stand upon the Ahrimanic ground under our feet, the
                            > Representative of Humanity was carved by Steiner to show the ground
                            > beneath our feetthat is riddled with deception that the common
                            thinking
                            > human cannot get a fix on because of the massive educational
                            deceptions
                            > and corporate lies that the human soul is unable to orientate
                            themselves
                            > against. Nor turn Ahrimanic thinking right around to Michael
                            thinking.
                            > > > The Representative of Humanity that STeiner carved also has a
                            heady
                            > ceiling, a sistine chapel for each soul and every soul has wishes
                            and
                            > desires floating on the ceiling or swarming and hunting in the
                            depths.
                            > That Sistine ceiling above us is our chapel our own Luciferic
                            intentions
                            > motives, and fantasies that fall in various regions of Sentient
                            Soul or
                            > Intellectual Soul or shrunken and limited Consciousness Soul, limp
                            > dimensions which, of those, of course The Geneva Conventions, brush
                            > against the Angelic region of how each human being is a holy
                            replication
                            > of one of their progressive species in time. That what we hold
                            sacred
                            > before us is the mighty manifestation of an incarnation chiseled
                            and
                            > molded for use in a stretch of karmic time and higher soul
                            teaching and
                            > instruction.
                            > > > Here we stand before a human being, a riddle, loaded with
                            ancient
                            > history and Karma and we carry a collective unconscious, untapped
                            memory
                            > field rooted in our Etheric and Astral integrations and co-
                            designed by
                            > the Angels and The Lord of Karma Himself/Herself. ... But we hardly
                            > rebuild our grasp of looking at the Representative of Humanity and
                            > understanding that the grounds we walk on are the bubbling,
                            thrusting
                            > imaginations, stalagmite like mineral deposit (speleothem) which
                            > projects upwards from a cave floor, are riddled with media
                            imaginations
                            > and a humanity without a compass as to how the human i am proceeds
                            > through this new realm of Michael/ahriman cognition.
                            > > > We hardly take the Imagination of the Michael and Christic
                            Human
                            > Soul raying forth the clarification of Michael Intelligence that
                            presses
                            > the Ahrimanic Imaginations under our feet with enough seriousness
                            to
                            > steer our self-inflicted numbness and deliberate dumbness of soul.
                            > Humanity, aside from a weakened Michael School, which should be
                            able to
                            > keep the pathways open for Cosmic Intelligence and Human
                            Intelligence to
                            > walk or stride forward as the mighty statue strides through Earth
                            time,
                            > stumbles rather than strides. But how you describe that we are
                            wading
                            > through upthrusting stalagmite like imaginations that numb
                            thinking and
                            > education all through the entire compromised and dishonest system
                            we
                            > drag our children through is really a huffing and puffing effort,
                            when
                            > it is far easier to have little tea parties herbal teas.
                            > > > This hardly dismisses the idea that overhead in each individual
                            > there is a unique sistine chapel ceiling of dynamic emotional
                            forces
                            > that swirl and conform themselves to our subjective wishes. And we
                            wish
                            > and our wish and our motives flood our souls. And through Spiritual
                            > Science we can track wish, desire and motive through the deeper
                            layers
                            > of Sentient, Intellectual and Consciousness Soul sub-system
                            dynamics in
                            > the soul workings of the human being. Steiner in his Study of Man
                            > refutes the church's egotistic system of repentance. Rather
                            resolution
                            > and feeling rather that whatever we do, we carry the striving that
                            we
                            > really could have done it better. None of us have ever really done
                            much
                            > of anything great, right or improved so much as in inch of the
                            world....
                            > at least that is the foundation of healthy human soul humility.
                            But the
                            > Church lamed and lied and mis-fed egotistic impulses that are not
                            native
                            > to the deeper recessess of our i am. Our karma offers opportunity
                            to
                            > > > do it right again therefore the quick fix of absolution and
                            > repentance that the church has offered as well as money to buy off
                            the
                            > guilt of kamaloca has helped to shift the forces of the soul away
                            from
                            > the inner healthy truth of the moral i am.
                            > > > Absolution is an integral part of the sacrament of penance and
                            > reconciliation. The penitent makes a sacramental confession of all
                            > mortal sins to a priest and prays an act of contrition. The priest
                            then
                            > assigns a penance and offers absolution in the name of the
                            Trinity, on
                            > behalf of the Church:
                            > > > R. S. Study of Man
                            > > > http://wn.rsarchive .org/Lectures/ StudyMan/ 19190825a01. html
                            > > > "....You can, e.g., have the following idea: something I
                            wished to
                            > do, or did, was good; or you can have some other idea; but that is
                            not
                            > what I mean. I mean something that can be faintly heard beneath the
                            > impulse of will, but which is still of the nature of will. There is
                            > something which always works in the will when we have motives;
                            that is,
                            > the wish. I do not now mean the strongly developed wishes out of
                            which
                            > the desires are formed, but an undercurrent of wishes that
                            accompany all
                            > our motives. They are always present. We perceive this wishing
                            > particularly clearly when we carry out something which arises out
                            of a
                            > motive in our will, and then we think it over and say to
                            ourselves; what
                            > you did then you could do much better. But what is there we do in
                            life,
                            > without a feeling that we could have done it better? It would be
                            sad if
                            > we were completely contented with anything, for there is nothing
                            which
                            > we could not do better still. And this is where we see the
                            difference
                            > > > between a man who is somewhat more civilised and one who is
                            not so
                            > advanced, for the latter always has the tendency to be satisfied
                            with
                            > himself. The more advanced man never wants to be so thoroughly
                            satisfied
                            > with himself because he has always in him the soft undertone of a
                            wish
                            > to do better, even to do differently. There is much sinning in this
                            > domain. Men regard it as a tremendously noble thing to repent of a
                            deed;
                            > but that is not the best that can be done with a deed; for often
                            > repentance is based upon sheer egoism: one would like to have done
                            > something better in order to be a better man. That is egoistic. Our
                            > efforts will only cease to be egoistic when we do not wish to have
                            done
                            > a thing better than we have done it, but consider it far more
                            important
                            > to do the same thing better next time. The intention which a man
                            has is
                            > the more important thing, not the repentance — the endeavour to do
                            > the same thing on another occasion. And in this intention wish
                            sounds as
                            > an
                            > > > undertone; so that we may well ask the question: What is this
                            > undertone of wish which accompanies our intention? For anyone who
                            can
                            > really observe the soul this wish is the first element of all that
                            > remains over after death. It is something of this remainder which
                            we
                            > feel when we say: we ought to have done it better: we wish we had
                            done
                            > it better. In the wish, in the form in which I have described it
                            to you,
                            > we have something which belongs to the Spirit-Self.
                            > > > Now the wish can become more concrete, it can take on a clearer
                            > form, Then it becomes similar to an intention. Then there is
                            formed a
                            > kind of mental picture of how a thing would be done better if it
                            had to
                            > be done again. I do not, however, lay the greatest stress on the
                            mental
                            > picture, but on the feeling and the will elements which accompany
                            each
                            > motive, the intention to do a thing better in a similar case. Here
                            the
                            > so-called sub-conscious in man plays a prominent part. If in your
                            > ordinary consciousness to-day you perform an action out of your own
                            > will, you do not necessarily make an idea in your mind of how you
                            will
                            > do it. But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always
                            > forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the
                            > will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the
                            > same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as
                            this.
                            > Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in
                            you.
                            > > >
                            > > > That so-called scientific line of thought which calls itself
                            > analytical psychology, "psycho-analysis, " talks a lot of nonsense
                            about
                            > this "second man." This psycho-analysis usually starts from the
                            > following classic example in setting forth its principles. I have
                            > already told you this story, but it is good to call it to mind
                            again. It
                            > is as follows: A man gives an evening party at his house, and it is
                            > known that, immediately after the party is over, the lady of the
                            house
                            > is going away to a Spa. There are at the party various people,
                            among
                            > them a lady. The party is given. The lady of the house is taken to
                            the
                            > train that she may travel to the Spa. The rest of the party leaves
                            and
                            > with them the lady already mentioned. She, with the other members
                            of the
                            > party, is overtaken at a crossroads by a carriage which, coming
                            round a
                            > corner from another street, is not seen until it is quite close.
                            What do
                            > the people coming from the party do? Of course they avoid the
                            carriage
                            > by going
                            > > > right and left, with the exception of the lady. She runs as
                            fast as
                            > she can in front of the horses dawn the middle of the street. The
                            > coachman does not stop and the rest of the party are terrified.
                            But the
                            > lady runs so fast that the others cannot follow her, and she runs
                            until
                            > she comes to a bridge. And even then it does not occur to her to
                            get out
                            > of the way. She falls into the water, but she is saved and brought
                            back
                            > to her late host's house. And there she is able to spend the night.
                            > > >
                            > > > You find this as an example in many works on psychoanalysis.
                            But
                            > something in it is always falsely interpreted. For the question
                            is: what
                            > was at the back of this whole incident? The will of the lady. What
                            did
                            > she really want to do? She wanted to return to her host's house as
                            soon
                            > as his wife had gone away, for she was in love with him. This,
                            however,
                            > was not a conscious wish, but something which had its seat in the
                            > sub-conscious. And this sub-consciousness of the second man,
                            within us,
                            > is often much more shrewd than a man is in his upper
                            consciousness. So
                            > clever was the sub-conscious in this case that the lady arranged
                            the
                            > whole proceeding up to the moment in which she fell into the water
                            in
                            > order to be able to return to her host's house. In fact she saw
                            > prophetically that she would be saved. Psycho-analysis tries to
                            get at
                            > these hidden soul forces, but it only speaks in general of
                            a "second
                            > man." But we are able to know that there does exist in every man
                            what is
                            > at
                            > > > work in the subconscious soul forces, and that it often shows
                            itself
                            > to be extraordinarily clever, much cleverer than the ordinary
                            activity
                            > of the soul.
                            > > >
                            > > > In every man there dwells, underground, as it were,
                            the "other" man.
                            > In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always
                            makes up
                            > his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so
                            that
                            > always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the
                            > unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar
                            > occasion
                            > > >
                            > > > Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention
                            become
                            > a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and
                            the
                            > resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the
                            Spirit-Man,
                            > the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-
                            Self.
                            > When you then consider man as a being of Will you can find all
                            these
                            > component parts in him: instinct, impulse, desire and motive, and
                            then,
                            > playing in as a gentle accompaniment: wish, intention and
                            resolution
                            > which are already living in Spirit-Self, Life-Spirit, and Spirit-
                            Man
                            > > >
                            > > > This has a great significance in the development of the human
                            being.
                            > For what is thus present under the surface, waiting for the time
                            after
                            > death, is expressed in man in image form between birth and death.
                            We
                            > describe it there in the same words. We experience wish, intention
                            and
                            > resolution through our mental picturing. But we shall only
                            experience
                            > wish, intention, resolution as they accord with true manhood when
                            these
                            > things are developed and nurtured in the right manner. What wish,
                            > intention and resolution really are in deeper human nature, does
                            not
                            > appear in the external man between birth and death. Images of them
                            > appear in the life of mental pictures. If you only develop ordinary
                            > consciousness you know nothing at all of what "wish" is."
                            > > > Bradford concludes;
                            > > > The Second Man within us, and the nature of the icy motives, of
                            > Ahriman vs the true motives of the higher human core.... not
                            discounting
                            > as well our general luciferic cravings, reveal the pivot between
                            the
                            > cunning and clever misleading of our shadow double and that which
                            > contains the magnificent cogntive grasp of dynamic forces that
                            stirs in
                            > our depths as Spirit-Selves, our Life-Spirits and our Spirit-Man.
                            In
                            > these depths unique forces of the Etheric Christ surface sometimes
                            a
                            > picture of how some karmic event might take shape and resolve
                            itself in
                            > the future... And our stunned karmic i am sees how this deep
                            picture has
                            > issued up from the depths of our being, to resolve some karmic
                            error, or
                            > failed and damaging event. But humans without a conscience or
                            merely an
                            > Ahrimanic shell, will dismiss this haunting vision and what will
                            ensue
                            > are nervous tics and nervous pyschic conditions that are then
                            numbed
                            > even further and distorted through medical abuses.
                            > > > But also we are together surrounded by humanity with tangled,
                            > festering and icy motives, gleeful lusts and avarice directed
                            selfish
                            > designs with no grasp of how these instincts and motives move
                            through
                            > our will or what soul terrain of Devachan holiness or nightmare we
                            > apparently strike from. Even if what moves through our will as
                            previous
                            > incarnations tendencies that now attract the instinctive soul to
                            > political and ahrimanic deceptions we won't, don't and are afraid
                            to
                            > examine our motives and instincts .. Afraid to bring the clarity of
                            > common sense and decency into how we address and treat other human
                            > spirits that are standing side by side with us on our destiny
                            paths.
                            > Because if we do, we enter the sweet complexities of the Michael
                            School
                            > and the layers of soul and real beings that are bent on
                            imprisoning us
                            > in our deceptions. NICE!
                            > > > Knowing the nature of some of the regions of the soul where icy
                            > lies, deceptions and torture, war and human egotism have been fed
                            to the
                            > point of bloating and repressing common sense and supporting war
                            > mongering traitors, false flag deceptions, and schools to promote
                            such
                            > attitudes puts us in the target line of MSM, Main Stream Media, the
                            > military industrial arm of bio-weaponry, torture and fully
                            destructive
                            > concepts in education and medical science that promote and further
                            the
                            > For Profit deception of human frivolity in the face of mass
                            murder. It
                            > also is a juicy opportunity in The Fifth Epoch to gain schooling by
                            > seeing, understanding and navigating the deceptions that are
                            thrown at
                            > us.
                            > > > For even now, because of these pre-emptive wars, we drive our
                            cars
                            > on gas guzzling murder, we go to the grocery and the mall on
                            companies
                            > that are thriving on murder, thriving on our jobs being required
                            and us
                            > going to our job on the back of gasoline prices and world karma.
                            Evil
                            > Ahrimanic decisions that have placed us as guilty of failure to
                            stop the
                            > monsters from growing. No effort to create wholly different energy
                            > efficient autos is seriously considered and boycott and refusal to
                            > support idiots in office numbs the complacent intellect, but rather
                            > super power, false flag, media driven murder of our fellow human
                            beings
                            > by our own high ranking officials in order to blame it on some
                            group....
                            > Jews or Arabs, it makes no difference!
                            > > > The lie is deeply rooted in the tangle of human instincts and
                            too
                            > awful or honest for the chicken meely mouthed christian to wrestle
                            with.
                            > The deception and the fallacies find root in the darkened
                            instinctual
                            > double and bypasses our human thinking that is now able to see,
                            with
                            > Michael Intelligence into the motives of Ahriman or for the few
                            who try
                            > to see, also into the higher regions of the new Consciousness Soul
                            > frontiers of human ethics and warm Christic heart striving. And
                            far too
                            > slowly, such films like Vendetta and imaginations trickle into the
                            soul
                            > as Entertainment instead of preliminary schooling with spiritual
                            depth
                            > and honesty behind them. We are in the midst of Fifth Epoch Michael
                            > Schooling and discernment and we are wading through wonderful
                            examples
                            > of Ahrimanic and Luciferic imaginations as well as challenges to
                            > transform these impulses to ever deeper roots of thinking within
                            us. To
                            > see the inverted Ahrimanic images and like an inverted image
                            reverse it
                            > > > and set it properly within our higher human striving against
                            the
                            > inverted image and the inverted logic that humanity wants to adapt
                            as
                            > normal tendencies.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                            > > > Don't pick lemons.
                            > > > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                            > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone
                            who
                            > knows.
                            > > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
                            > >
                            >



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                          • Stephen Hale
                            ... direct addressing of the situation. Instead, the pushing away the problems on the faults of Ahriman and his buddies, makes me feel angry and undone.
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jun 6, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria <gloriabjork@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Steve, thank you for the clear response. I was missing such
                              direct addressing of the situation. Instead, the pushing away the
                              problems on the faults of Ahriman and his buddies, makes me feel
                              angry and undone. English is a good language to communicate. But,
                              often I feel that it is also a trap. For some reason, anthroposophy
                              in German or in Swedish, even in French, feels less stressful. I
                              just dropped another anthroposophic discussion online, because I
                              couldn't take the contemption that seems to overwhelm the discourses
                              people share. Possibly, anthroposophy is only possible to exist as a
                              healthy discipline of thought and living, when applied to a
                              socialist society in which so many of the agonies and horrors of the
                              consumer's marketsystem won't survive. I may be biased, but in
                              America, anthroposophy feels like a consumer's good, like going to
                              IKEA or buying for the newest electric appliance. It feels very
                              hollow. But, I am an outsider and a foreigner. -Gloria

                              Well yes, if you received contemption it was probably on an
                              americanist forum for anthroposophy in the spirit of america. But
                              here's the important reminder: The buildings were destroyed not by
                              any Jihadist war on America or Israel, but by clever soradists out
                              of America itself, with their own agenda.

                              I was on a forum of this kind myself, run by a phoney who called
                              himself an anarchist of the likes of Emma Goldman. Yet, in the
                              final analysis, it all boiled down to Emma Goldman; and as we all
                              know, nobody listened. She actually had to defend herself after the
                              assassination of William McKinley by saying: "so what if one fat
                              white guy dies when thousands die every day suffering and starving
                              to death".

                              But here's the paradox: McKinley was a good guy; for the people all
                              the way. One of the few; a Christian who suffered big time. Look
                              it up. Goldman was looking more globally to the overall Illuminati
                              itself, which Mckinley was not. No, his hand was forced by Teddy
                              Rex.

                              Steve
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