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  • carol
    A great selection of essays and lectures relating man of today to an Anthroposophical world conception. Scroll the whole length of the page, and go to next
    Message 1 of 18 , Jun 2, 2007
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      A great selection of essays and lectures relating man of today to an
      Anthroposophical world conception. Scroll the whole length of the
      page, and go to next and next if you wish.

      http://www.eleggua.com/spirit.html
    • Gloria
      Here are a few interesting links to the fabricated terror made in USA . http://www.voltairenet.org/article148693.html
      Message 2 of 18 , Jun 2, 2007
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        Here are a few interesting links to the fabricated terror "made in USA". 

        http://www.voltairenet.org/article148693.html

        http://www.voltairenet.org/librairie/product_info.php?products_id=56&language=fr

        http://www.voltairenet.org/librairie/product_info.php?products_id=57

        Most problematic is that the English contingent of language is not providing the extensive freedom of information that is found in the French.  Wonder why.

        Gloria


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      • Gloria
        I would like to know what do you think about the theories of fabricated terror that circulate in the culture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Synt3ed.jpg
        Message 3 of 18 , Jun 2, 2007
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          I would like to know what do you think about the theories of fabricated terror that circulate in the culture. 

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Synt3ed.jpg

          en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster_Tarpley

          Gloria


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        • Stephen Hale
          ... fabricated terror that circulate in the culture. ... The greatest example of fabricated terror, of course, concerns the lie of 9/11 itself. The buildings
          Message 4 of 18 , Jun 2, 2007
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            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria <gloriabjork@...> wrote:
            >
            > I would like to know what do you think about the theories of
            fabricated terror that circulate in the culture.
            >
            > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Synt3ed.jpg
            >
            > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster_Tarpley
            >
            > Gloria

            The greatest example of fabricated terror, of course, concerns the
            lie of 9/11 itself. The buildings had already been rigged with
            explosives in order that if the airplanes had been diverted somehow
            from these targets, then the buildings would have been destroyed by
            the forces of radical islam; from within the infrastructure itself.
            But, once the planes hit their targets, then the explanation of the
            collapse of the twin towers had to do with the force of the planes
            themselves. It would have been too much to say that the buildings
            were also rigged with explosives.

            Thus, both alternates were carefully planned in advance in order
            that a purely preemptive war on terror could be instigated by the
            United States. Anthroposophy's concern is that it clearly
            demonstrates Soradt's third incarnation, and the goals of pure
            destructive intent, which is why this war on terror also involves
            the infliction of maximum pain in terms of loss of limbs. Soradt
            gets pleasure from experiencing people's pain. This needs to be
            known. In spite of the fact that it is rather incomprehensible, it
            must be known that this is what the true goal is; to inflict as much
            pain and torture as possible in order to possibly defeat the human
            spirit. The war on terror is such an effort.

            Steve
          • Gloria
            Thank you for your response. My question would be, if the people know that this is in function and going on, then why the submission and quietness that the
            Message 5 of 18 , Jun 3, 2007
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              Thank you for your response.  My question would be, if the people know that this is in function and going on, then why the submission and quietness that the culture responds with to such infamous machinations?  -Gloria

              Stephen Hale <sardisian01@...> wrote:
              --- In anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, Gloria <gloriabjork@ ...> wrote:
              >
              > I would like to know what do you think about the theories of
              fabricated terror that circulate in the culture.
              >
              > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Image:Synt3ed. jpg
              >
              > en.wikipedia. org/wiki/ Webster_Tarpley
              >
              > Gloria

              The greatest example of fabricated terror, of course, concerns the
              lie of 9/11 itself. The buildings had already been rigged with
              explosives in order that if the airplanes had been diverted somehow
              from these targets, then the buildings would have been destroyed by
              the forces of radical islam; from within the infrastructure itself.
              But, once the planes hit their targets, then the explanation of the
              collapse of the twin towers had to do with the force of the planes
              themselves. It would have been too much to say that the buildings
              were also rigged with explosives.

              Thus, both alternates were carefully planned in advance in order
              that a purely preemptive war on terror could be instigated by the
              United States. Anthroposophy' s concern is that it clearly
              demonstrates Soradt's third incarnation, and the goals of pure
              destructive intent, which is why this war on terror also involves
              the infliction of maximum pain in terms of loss of limbs. Soradt
              gets pleasure from experiencing people's pain. This needs to be
              known. In spite of the fact that it is rather incomprehensible, it
              must be known that this is what the true goal is; to inflict as much
              pain and torture as possible in order to possibly defeat the human
              spirit. The war on terror is such an effort.

              Steve



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            • carol
              Gloria, It s a very strange phenomena in North America that the population seems divided into 2 major groupings. Those who respond to, and possess a tendency
              Message 6 of 18 , Jun 3, 2007
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                Gloria,

                It's a very strange phenomena in North America that the population
                seems divided into 2 major groupings. Those who respond to, and
                possess a tendency to want to think and actually feel `truth' through
                their hearts, and those who adhere to an extreme materialistic
                dictum. There's no arguing with the latter (they seem pretty sealed
                in their belief systems), and their `way' seems to have taken the
                lead on how society will direct itself into the future (especially
                since Bush stole his first mandate). `Theirs' has basically quashed
                the possibility of publicly discussing `issues of dissent' from out
                of a primordial set ignorance; wherein the question of secular
                Jewish rights and the forbidding of a review WW11 events seem to
                exist as the imposed, generalized sensitivities which justify
                distracting everyone from living and viewing what is happening in
                their `very present' lives. (This is a view from 1 angle).

                Basically, if North America were to allowed one lie to be openly
                discussed, the simple act of permitting this would undoubtedly
                (unleash) open the door to (collective) healthy human reflection, and
                this exercise would inevitably turn and focus on many other events
                from out of the near and distant past ( which are presently
                recognized in the form of their lies ex. Aids `biological warfare',
                torture, political assassinations, state run mind control operations,
                the ongoing human disgrace taking place in the Middle East, etc. )

                The mechanisms for `criticizing' are effectively submerged by the
                forces which run society at the moment, and great efforts are in
                place to effectively expand this work. (Subliminal terror tactics on
                the unsuspecting population). Basically the underlying message
                is 'the lies MUST go on' and that 'the state is organising itself
                increasingly to ensure this'.

                Alot of people know about the false flag which 911 represents, but
                they also know that 'dissent'is very risky, and that their 'power of
                vote' has been reduced to child play.

                Which brings us back to the pressing questions of which Anthroposophy
                addresses.





                In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria <gloriabjork@...> wrote:
                >
                > Thank you for your response. My question would be, if the people
                know that this is in function and going on, then why the submission
                and quietness that the culture responds with to such infamous
                machinations? -Gloria
                >
                > Stephen Hale <sardisian01@...>
                wrote: --- In
                anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria <gloriabjork@> wrote:
                > >
                > > I would like to know what do you think about the theories of
                > fabricated terror that circulate in the culture.
                > >
                > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Synt3ed.jpg
                > >
                > > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster_Tarpley
                > >
                > > Gloria
                >
                > The greatest example of fabricated terror, of course, concerns the
                > lie of 9/11 itself. The buildings had already been rigged with
                > explosives in order that if the airplanes had been diverted
                somehow
                > from these targets, then the buildings would have been destroyed
                by
                > the forces of radical islam; from within the infrastructure
                itself.
                > But, once the planes hit their targets, then the explanation of
                the
                > collapse of the twin towers had to do with the force of the planes
                > themselves. It would have been too much to say that the buildings
                > were also rigged with explosives.
                >
                > Thus, both alternates were carefully planned in advance in order
                > that a purely preemptive war on terror could be instigated by the
                > United States. Anthroposophy's concern is that it clearly
                > demonstrates Soradt's third incarnation, and the goals of pure
                > destructive intent, which is why this war on terror also involves
                > the infliction of maximum pain in terms of loss of limbs. Soradt
                > gets pleasure from experiencing people's pain. This needs to be
                > known. In spite of the fact that it is rather incomprehensible,
                it
                > must be known that this is what the true goal is; to inflict as
                much
                > pain and torture as possible in order to possibly defeat the human
                > spirit. The war on terror is such an effort.
                >
                > Steve
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > It's here! Your new message!
                > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
                >
              • Gloria
                this is very interesting to me. i was born and raised in Latin America, and lived in Europe for two decades before coming to America. The clash between what
                Message 7 of 18 , Jun 3, 2007
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                  this is very interesting to me.  i was born and raised in Latin America, and lived in Europe for two decades before coming to America.  The clash between what I expected to find and what I found, was a shuttering experience.  It left me without confidence.  But, seeing it from the anthroposophical perspective gives me somehow the feeling that I am not fully alone with these perceptions.


                  carol <organicethics@...> wrote:
                  Gloria,

                  It's a very strange phenomena in North America that the population
                  seems divided into 2 major groupings. Those who respond to, and
                  possess a tendency to want to think and actually feel `truth' through
                  their hearts, and those who adhere to an extreme materialistic
                  dictum. There's no arguing with the latter (they seem pretty sealed
                  in their belief systems), and their `way' seems to have taken the
                  lead on how society will direct itself into the future (especially
                  since Bush stole his first mandate). `Theirs' has basically quashed
                  the possibility of publicly discussing `issues of dissent' from out
                  of a primordial set ignorance; wherein the question of secular
                  Jewish rights and the forbidding of a review WW11 events seem to
                  exist as the imposed, generalized sensitivities which justify
                  distracting everyone from living and viewing what is happening in
                  their `very present' lives. (This is a view from 1 angle).

                  Basically, if North America were to allowed one lie to be openly
                  discussed, the simple act of permitting this would undoubtedly
                  (unleash) open the door to (collective) healthy human reflection, and
                  this exercise would inevitably turn and focus on many other events
                  from out of the near and distant past ( which are presently
                  recognized in the form of their lies ex. Aids `biological warfare',
                  torture, political assassinations, state run mind control operations,
                  the ongoing human disgrace taking place in the Middle East, etc. )

                  The mechanisms for `criticizing' are effectively submerged by the
                  forces which run society at the moment, and great efforts are in
                  place to effectively expand this work. (Subliminal terror tactics on
                  the unsuspecting population). Basically the underlying message
                  is 'the lies MUST go on' and that 'the state is organising itself
                  increasingly to ensure this'.

                  Alot of people know about the false flag which 911 represents, but
                  they also know that 'dissent'is very risky, and that their 'power of
                  vote' has been reduced to child play.

                  Which brings us back to the pressing questions of which Anthroposophy
                  addresses.

                  In anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, Gloria <gloriabjork@ ...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Thank you for your response. My question would be, if the people
                  know that this is in function and going on, then why the submission
                  and quietness that the culture responds with to such infamous
                  machinations? -Gloria
                  >
                  > Stephen Hale <sardisian01@ ...>
                  wrote: --- In
                  anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, Gloria <gloriabjork@ > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I would like to know what do you think about the theories of
                  > fabricated terror that circulate in the culture.
                  > >
                  > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Image:Synt3ed. jpg
                  > >
                  > > en.wikipedia. org/wiki/ Webster_Tarpley
                  > >
                  > > Gloria
                  >
                  > The greatest example of fabricated terror, of course, concerns the
                  > lie of 9/11 itself. The buildings had already been rigged with
                  > explosives in order that if the airplanes had been diverted
                  somehow
                  > from these targets, then the buildings would have been destroyed
                  by
                  > the forces of radical islam; from within the infrastructure
                  itself.
                  > But, once the planes hit their targets, then the explanation of
                  the
                  > collapse of the twin towers had to do with the force of the planes
                  > themselves. It would have been too much to say that the buildings
                  > were also rigged with explosives.
                  >
                  > Thus, both alternates were carefully planned in advance in order
                  > that a purely preemptive war on terror could be instigated by the
                  > United States. Anthroposophy' s concern is that it clearly
                  > demonstrates Soradt's third incarnation, and the goals of pure
                  > destructive intent, which is why this war on terror also involves
                  > the infliction of maximum pain in terms of loss of limbs. Soradt
                  > gets pleasure from experiencing people's pain. This needs to be
                  > known. In spite of the fact that it is rather incomprehensible,
                  it
                  > must be known that this is what the true goal is; to inflict as
                  much
                  > pain and torture as possible in order to possibly defeat the human
                  > spirit. The war on terror is such an effort.
                  >
                  > Steve
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                  > It's here! Your new message!
                  > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
                  >



                  It's here! Your new message!
                  Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.

                • holderlin66
                  False Flags Unfurled By Douglas Herman Exclusive to Rense.com 4-25-7 Strange how every terrorist event in the past ten or fifteen years benefited the various
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jun 3, 2007
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                    False Flags Unfurled
                    By Douglas Herman
                    Exclusive to Rense.com
                    4-25-7

                    Strange how every "terrorist" event in the past ten or fifteen years benefited the various imperial governments of Britain, Israel, Australia and the USA. These false flag terror operations help cement power, by spreading terror throughout the victim nation. By spreading the effects of terror--pictures of damage and film interviews of mass hysteria and confusion--the mainstream media of the traumatized country served as an unquestioning, ultra-effective propaganda vehicle. The national media acts as a brilliant, second phase of the false flag operation, by further spreading the terror while muddying the waters to any conflicting evidence or subsequent investigation.
                    Let me list a few suspicious events that helped cement power in the four countries. There are dozens, and I;m sertain you can think of many more, but I've only listed six. Each event intended to (A) scapegoat a group or individual, while (B) removing power from the unsuspecting people, while (C ) giving more power to the government, while (D) directing hostility toward the intended group, or individual, while (E) muddying the facts of the story for future reference. If you control the events and control the story than you control the people, for your own purposes.
                    1. The Oklahoma City Bombing. Meant to look like an act of terrorism but closer inspection reveals numerous suspicious indicators of a false flag operation. Multiple bombs reported that day. Multiple persons involved. Experts like USAF General Partin (Google), who saw the site, dismissed the notion that a home-made fertilizer bomb could have demolished a concrete reinforced building.
                    Fortunately, for those who created the false flag terror operation, the US media kept a lid on doubters after the critical first day---and has ever since---labeling them 'Conspiracy theorists.'
                    OKC screamed false flag, then and now. The intended target? The US militia groups, millions of law-abiding patriots and Constitutionalists that had grown significantly after the Waco Massacre by the Clinton/ Reno crime cult. Predictably, a pre-programmed patsy, Timothy McVeigh, was tied to a militia group and blamed for the entire massacre.
                    2. The 911 Attack. The most successful false flag attack in America, but assuredly not the last. Probably engineered by more than one country to BENEFIT MORE THAN ONE COUNTRY. Probably a testing ground for several, secretive types of demolition-weaponry within the tower core. Mission: terrorize and confuse Americans while directing the US population's anger toward the Middle East.
                    Successful? You bet (thus far). To scapegoat an Islamic group, a group revealed and then reviled within hours and days. To target an ever-widening group to be attacked in the years to come. To contain or control all conflicting evidence. To contain or control all conflicting witnesses. To marginalize, or demonize, all skeptics and whistleblowers (Somewhat successful thus far, but growing less so until the internet can be marginalized). And to allow the corporate-owned, complicit US media free rein to keep a lid on doubts. After the critical first day, the US media has acted as a government bureau by spreading and cementing the official story.
                    911: A False Flag Exemplar.
                    The purpose of 911 was manifold. To spread fear. To distract the public about critical missing Pentagon trillions. To create a new power elite in as few hands as possible. To create a wider swath of powerful new "enemies," shadowy groups able to attack us here in America. To then create a powerful pretense to attack them and gain possession of their resources; and to destroy as much of the US Constitution as possible and thus cement more power.
                    3. The Bali Bombing. Meant to look like an Islamic attack. Purpose: to sow terror and cement hatred of Muslims by terror-striken Australians and get them on board the planned, upcoming, joint attack on Middle East countries. Also, as alleged by some observers, to test new weaponry, perhaps an innovative micro-nuke (see photograph) and to gauge their effects for use against future enemies--foreign or domestic--in future false flag events.
                    4. The Port Arthur Massacre.   Meantto look like the work of a lone gunman in a tiny village but vastly too successful. Far too much expertise for the patsy, far too many suspicious anomalies to list. Purpose: to sow terror among peaceful, law-abiding but individualistic Australian gun owners and thus force restrictive laws allowing nationwide gun confiscation.
                    And the Port Arthur Massacre worked perfectly. The clueless Aussie media, headed by future Fox mogul, Rupert Murdoch, served almost as a propaganda ministry for the brand new John Howard administration, and brushed all doubts and conflicting evidence away.
                    Where it remains hidden today, forever it seems. Reportedly, access to the Port Arthur case is forbidden to investigators for the next 30 years. No CSI for the Port Arthur coverup Aussies, meanwhile, remain virtually weaponless under "benevolent" Big Brother and John Howard.
                    5. London Bombing 7-7. Meant to scapegoat Islamic people, of course. (Are we seeing a pattern here?). Served to terrorize Londoners and allow draconian, new power measures while bolstering lagging support of the war in Iraq. Perhaps even served as a punitive strike, to punish Londoners for their lack of war support.
                    6. Lebanon-Israel Attack. The wily Israelis, to their credit and everlasting shame, borrowed a play from Hitler and the Nazis. Create a false flag incident at the border and retaliate in the confusion. The Nazis started a war with the weaker country of Poland in 1939. The Israelis attempted to do the same.
                    By accusing neighboring Lebanon of capturing two IDF soldiers, Israel claimed a pretext for war. They attacked and invaded Lebanon and the war went badly for the Israelis and Olmert. Thousands of deaths and dismemberments on both sides and the false flag backfired.
                    ALL TERROR EVENTS, most importantly, allow beleaguered, often inept leaders (Blair, Bush, Olmert, Howard) to go before the public and pretend to be strong, pretend to be "leaderly," to the terrorized masses. Allegedly under attack, victimized by their own propagandized news organizations, the people seek the solace and protection of their fearless leader, and their government, and embrace them both readily. Helped along by continual doses of hysterical propaganda from the media.
                    IT IS ALL AN ACT, however, scripted from the very beginning, from the first explosion to the close up on the fearless leader by the TV news camera, focusing on the resolute expression with the flags or the national seal in the background.
                    Whatever weakness the bumbling leader displayed in the weeks, months or years beforehand, can be brushed aside with a few, well-prepared, scripted speeches. Weakness and incompetence can even be overturned, trumped even, by ordering restrictive (fascistic) new measures. See V for Vendetta, as an excellent film example of this fascistic, false leadership.
                    False flag events, most importantly of all, serve as a fake, hostile action by some sinister yet vague enemy, requiring some bold, new reaction by the protective government, naturally headed by the leader. Usually the actions--whether laws, restrictions, warnings or declarations (of war)--have already been pre-written. Another clue indicating an obvious false flag operation. One which screams, or should scream, a warning against approaching totalitarianism.
                    I am inclined to include the recent shooting at VA-Tech as a possible false flag operation. Same type of Manchurian Candidate, lone gunman as the one at Port Arthur. Same super skilled, remorseless gunman possessing killing power that baffles combat-trained specialists. VA Tech, like Port Arthur, appears to be a black operation for the exact same reasons. Oddly, both massacres occurred in late April, and lawmen either could not or would not intervene.
                    But sometimes what is intended to take freedoms away---Second Amendment Right to Bear Arms---can backfire if enough people see through it. If the US government hopes to use Cho as the poster boy for gun restrictions, and believe me they do, they had better restrict the Internet first.
                    Oh, wait--They are trying to do that. Another false flag event being prepared as I write this. perhaps some nuke blast to terrify the citizenry, since each event must surpass the former in scope and scale. Vigilance, vigilance, forever the price of liberty.
                  • Gloria
                    However... the realization that there are others seeing the same, does not make it all become more supportable. At times I feel unsafe, without the feeling
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jun 3, 2007
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                      However... the realization that there are others seeing the same, does not make it all become more supportable.   At times I feel unsafe, without the feeling of "home" in the culture that seems so ambiguous.  I would like to meet some other anthroposophs in my area, but they seem dispersed on a non-reachable radius.  Another thing I miss terribly is the Christen Gemeinschaft.  There is no church of CG in this area...!  -Gloria. 

                      Gloria <gloriabjork@...> wrote:
                      this is very interesting to me.  i was born and raised in Latin America, and lived in Europe for two decades before coming to America.  The clash between what I expected to find and what I found, was a shuttering experience.  It left me without confidence.  But, seeing it from the anthroposophical perspective gives me somehow the feeling that I am not fully alone with these perceptions.


                      carol <organicethics@ sympatico. ca> wrote:
                      Gloria,

                      It's a very strange phenomena in North America that the population
                      seems divided into 2 major groupings. Those who respond to, and
                      possess a tendency to want to think and actually feel `truth' through
                      their hearts, and those who adhere to an extreme materialistic
                      dictum. There's no arguing with the latter (they seem pretty sealed
                      in their belief systems), and their `way' seems to have taken the
                      lead on how society will direct itself into the future (especially
                      since Bush stole his first mandate). `Theirs' has basically quashed
                      the possibility of publicly discussing `issues of dissent' from out
                      of a primordial set ignorance; wherein the question of secular
                      Jewish rights and the forbidding of a review WW11 events seem to
                      exist as the imposed, generalized sensitivities which justify
                      distracting everyone from living and viewing what is happening in
                      their `very present' lives. (This is a view from 1 angle).

                      Basically, if North America were to allowed one lie to be openly
                      discussed, the simple act of permitting this would undoubtedly
                      (unleash) open the door to (collective) healthy human reflection, and
                      this exercise would inevitably turn and focus on many other events
                      from out of the near and distant past ( which are presently
                      recognized in the form of their lies ex. Aids `biological warfare',
                      torture, political assassinations, state run mind control operations,
                      the ongoing human disgrace taking place in the Middle East, etc. )

                      The mechanisms for `criticizing' are effectively submerged by the
                      forces which run society at the moment, and great efforts are in
                      place to effectively expand this work. (Subliminal terror tactics on
                      the unsuspecting population). Basically the underlying message
                      is 'the lies MUST go on' and that 'the state is organising itself
                      increasingly to ensure this'.

                      Alot of people know about the false flag which 911 represents, but
                      they also know that 'dissent'is very risky, and that their 'power of
                      vote' has been reduced to child play.

                      Which brings us back to the pressing questions of which Anthroposophy
                      addresses.

                      In anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, Gloria <gloriabjork@ ...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Thank you for your response. My question would be, if the people
                      know that this is in function and going on, then why the submission
                      and quietness that the culture responds with to such infamous
                      machinations? -Gloria
                      >
                      > Stephen Hale <sardisian01@ ...>
                      wrote: --- In
                      anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, Gloria <gloriabjork@ > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I would like to know what do you think about the theories of
                      > fabricated terror that circulate in the culture.
                      > >
                      > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Image:Synt3ed. jpg
                      > >
                      > > en.wikipedia. org/wiki/ Webster_Tarpley
                      > >
                      > > Gloria
                      >
                      > The greatest example of fabricated terror, of course, concerns the
                      > lie of 9/11 itself. The buildings had already been rigged with
                      > explosives in order that if the airplanes had been diverted
                      somehow
                      > from these targets, then the buildings would have been destroyed
                      by
                      > the forces of radical islam; from within the infrastructure
                      itself.
                      > But, once the planes hit their targets, then the explanation of
                      the
                      > collapse of the twin towers had to do with the force of the planes
                      > themselves. It would have been too much to say that the buildings
                      > were also rigged with explosives.
                      >
                      > Thus, both alternates were carefully planned in advance in order
                      > that a purely preemptive war on terror could be instigated by the
                      > United States. Anthroposophy' s concern is that it clearly
                      > demonstrates Soradt's third incarnation, and the goals of pure
                      > destructive intent, which is why this war on terror also involves
                      > the infliction of maximum pain in terms of loss of limbs. Soradt
                      > gets pleasure from experiencing people's pain. This needs to be
                      > known. In spite of the fact that it is rather incomprehensible,
                      it
                      > must be known that this is what the true goal is; to inflict as
                      much
                      > pain and torture as possible in order to possibly defeat the human
                      > spirit. The war on terror is such an effort.
                      >
                      > Steve
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                      > It's here! Your new message!
                      > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
                      >



                      It's here! Your new message!
                      Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.


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                    • holderlin66
                      Carol, thank you for your clarity in your response to Gloria. And thanks Gloria for standing with a flashlight in the dark. We all miss the Christian
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jun 3, 2007
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                        Carol,  thank you for your clarity in your response to Gloria. And thanks Gloria for standing with a flashlight in the dark.  We all miss the Christian Community and we are all hardly strong enough to keep our cognitive balance daily when we are usually standing as 1 in 10,000.  Alex Jones comes into my restaurant in Austin Texas frequently and from his base in Austin Texas  the whole context of the Fabrication of terror and False flags are richly explored by him. 

                        Ron Paul the current hopeless candidate for President in the current debached and deceptive big money nightmare of American politics. Ron Paul is hopeless because of the problems that Carol, Gloria, Steve and so many others have richly and intelligently described. Hopeless because big media and money want only certain players to play the game that will sustain the immense Ahrimanic deception going on in the shadow instincts of humanity.  Humanity finds itself sinking in the Ahrimanic imaginations and machinations of cultural Ahrimanic deceptions with no sense of struggle or fight.  We truly stand, in the Michael School, to make the obvious clear, that true common sensehood and humanity, specifically our children, are not swallowed Jona like into the numbing maw of Ahrimanic complacency.

                        To stand upon the Ahrimanic ground under our feet, the Representative of Humanity was carved by Steiner to show the ground beneath our feetthat  is riddled with deception that the common thinking human cannot get a fix on because of the massive educational deceptions and corporate lies that the human soul is unable to orientate themselves against. Nor turn Ahrimanic thinking right around to Michael thinking. 

                         The Representative of Humanity that STeiner carved also has a heady ceiling, a sistine chapel for each soul and every soul has wishes and desires floating on the ceiling or swarming and hunting in the depths.  That Sistine ceiling above us is our chapel  our own Luciferic intentions motives, and fantasies that fall in various regions of Sentient Soul or Intellectual Soul or shrunken and limited Consciousness Soul, limp dimensions which, of those, of course The Geneva Conventions, brush against the Angelic region of how each human being is a holy replication of one of their progressive species in time. That what we hold sacred before us is the mighty manifestation of an incarnation chiseled and molded for use in a stretch of karmic time and higher soul teaching and instruction. 

                        Here we stand before a human being, a riddle, loaded with ancient history and Karma and we carry a collective unconscious, untapped memory field rooted in our Etheric and Astral integrations and co-designed by the Angels and The Lord of Karma Himself/Herself.... But we hardly rebuild our grasp of looking at the Representative of Humanity and understanding that the grounds we walk on are the bubbling, thrusting imaginations,  stalagmite like mineral deposit (speleothem) which projects upwards from a cave floor, are riddled with media imaginations and a humanity without a compass as to how the human i am proceeds through this new realm of Michael/ahriman cognition. 

                        We hardly take the Imagination of the Michael and Christic Human Soul raying forth the clarification of Michael Intelligence that presses the Ahrimanic Imaginations under our feet with enough seriousness to steer our self-inflicted numbness and deliberate dumbness of soul.  Humanity, aside from a weakened Michael School, which should be able to keep the pathways open for Cosmic Intelligence and Human Intelligence to walk or stride forward as the mighty statue strides through Earth time, stumbles rather than strides. But how you describe that we are wading through upthrusting stalagmite like imaginations that numb thinking and education all through the entire compromised and dishonest system we drag our children through is really a huffing and puffing effort, when it is far easier to have little tea parties herbal teas.

                        This hardly dismisses the idea that overhead in each individual there is a unique sistine chapel ceiling of dynamic emotional forces that swirl and conform themselves to our subjective wishes.  And we wish and our wish and our motives flood our souls. And through Spiritual Science we can track wish, desire and motive through the deeper layers of Sentient, Intellectual and Consciousness Soul sub-system dynamics in the soul workings of the human being.  Steiner in his Study of Man refutes the church's egotistic system of repentance.  Rather resolution and feeling rather that whatever we do, we carry the striving that we really could have done it better.  None of us have ever really done much of anything great, right or improved so much as in inch of the world.... at least that is the foundation of healthy human soul humility. But the Church lamed and lied and mis-fed egotistic impulses that are not native to the deeper recessess of our i am.  Our karma offers opportunity to do it right again therefore the quick fix of absolution and repentance that the church has offered as well as money to buy off the guilt of kamaloca has helped to shift the forces of the soul away from the inner healthy truth of the moral i am.

                        Absolution is an integral part of the sacrament of penance and reconciliation. The penitent makes a sacramental confession of all mortal sins to a priest and prays an act of contrition. The priest then assigns a penance and offers absolution in the name of the Trinity, on behalf of the Church

                        R. S.  Study of Man

                        http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/StudyMan/19190825a01.html

                        "....You can, e.g., have the following idea: something I wished to do, or did, was good; or you can have some other idea; but that is not what I mean. I mean something that can be faintly heard beneath the impulse of will, but which is still of the nature of will. There is something which always works in the will when we have motives; that is, the wish. I do not now mean the strongly developed wishes out of which the desires are formed, but an undercurrent of wishes that accompany all our motives. They are always present. We perceive this wishing particularly clearly when we carry out something which arises out of a motive in our will, and then we think it over and say to ourselves; what you did then you could do much better. But what is there we do in life, without a feeling that we could have done it better? It would be sad if we were completely contented with anything, for there is nothing which we could not do better still. And this is where we see the difference between a man who is somewhat more civilised and one who is not so advanced, for the latter always has the tendency to be satisfied with himself. The more advanced man never wants to be so thoroughly satisfied with himself because he has always in him the soft undertone of a wish to do better, even to do differently. There is much sinning in this domain. Men regard it as a tremendously noble thing to repent of a deed; but that is not the best that can be done with a deed; for often repentance is based upon sheer egoism: one would like to have done something better in order to be a better man. That is egoistic. Our efforts will only cease to be egoistic when we do not wish to have done a thing better than we have done it, but consider it far more important to do the same thing better next time. The intention which a man has is the more important thing, not the repentance — the endeavour to do the same thing on another occasion. And in this intention wish sounds as an undertone; so that we may well ask the question: What is this undertone of wish which accompanies our intention? For anyone who can really observe the soul this wish is the first element of all that remains over after death. It is something of this remainder which we feel when we say: we ought to have done it better: we wish we had done it better. In the wish, in the form in which I have described it to you, we have something which belongs to the Spirit-Self.

                        Now the wish can become more concrete, it can take on a clearer form, Then it becomes similar to an intention. Then there is formed a kind of mental picture of how a thing would be done better if it had to be done again. I do not, however, lay the greatest stress on the mental picture, but on the feeling and the will elements which accompany each motive, the intention to do a thing better in a similar case. Here the so-called sub-conscious in man plays a prominent part. If in your ordinary consciousness to-day you perform an action out of your own will, you do not necessarily make an idea in your mind of how you will do it. But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this. Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you.

                        That so-called scientific line of thought which calls itself analytical psychology, "psycho-analysis," talks a lot of nonsense about this "second man." This psycho-analysis usually starts from the following classic example in setting forth its principles. I have already told you this story, but it is good to call it to mind again. It is as follows: A man gives an evening party at his house, and it is known that, immediately after the party is over, the lady of the house is going away to a Spa. There are at the party various people, among them a lady. The party is given. The lady of the house is taken to the train that she may travel to the Spa. The rest of the party leaves and with them the lady already mentioned. She, with the other members of the party, is overtaken at a crossroads by a carriage which, coming round a corner from another street, is not seen until it is quite close. What do the people coming from the party do? Of course they avoid the carriage by going right and left, with the exception of the lady. She runs as fast as she can in front of the horses dawn the middle of the street. The coachman does not stop and the rest of the party are terrified. But the lady runs so fast that the others cannot follow her, and she runs until she comes to a bridge. And even then it does not occur to her to get out of the way. She falls into the water, but she is saved and brought back to her late host's house. And there she is able to spend the night.

                        You find this as an example in many works on psychoanalysis. But something in it is always falsely interpreted. For the question is: what was at the back of this whole incident? The will of the lady. What did she really want to do? She wanted to return to her host's house as soon as his wife had gone away, for she was in love with him. This, however, was not a conscious wish, but something which had its seat in the sub-conscious. And this sub-consciousness of the second man, within us, is often much more shrewd than a man is in his upper consciousness. So clever was the sub-conscious in this case that the lady arranged the whole proceeding up to the moment in which she fell into the water in order to be able to return to her host's house. In fact she saw prophetically that she would be saved. Psycho-analysis tries to get at these hidden soul forces, but it only speaks in general of a "second man." But we are able to know that there does exist in every man what is at work in the subconscious soul forces, and that it often shows itself to be extraordinarily clever, much cleverer than the ordinary activity of the soul.

                        In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other" man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar occasion

                        Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention become a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the Spirit-Man, the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-Self. When you then consider man as a being of Will you can find all these component parts in him: instinct, impulse, desire and motive, and then, playing in as a gentle accompaniment: wish, intention and resolution which are already living in Spirit-Self, Life-Spirit, and Spirit-Man

                        This has a great significance in the development of the human being. For what is thus present under the surface, waiting for the time after death, is expressed in man in image form between birth and death. We describe it there in the same words. We experience wish, intention and resolution through our mental picturing. But we shall only experience wish, intention, resolution as they accord with true manhood when these things are developed and nurtured in the right manner. What wish, intention and resolution really are in deeper human nature, does not appear in the external man between birth and death. Images of them appear in the life of mental pictures. If you only develop ordinary consciousness you know nothing at all of what "wish" is."

                        Bradford concludes;

                        The Second Man within us, and the nature of the icy motives, of Ahriman vs the true motives of the higher human core.... not discounting as well our general luciferic cravings, reveal the pivot between the cunning and clever misleading of our shadow double and that which contains the magnificent cogntive grasp of dynamic forces that stirs in our depths as  Spirit-Selves, our Life-Spirits and our Spirit-Man.  In these depths unique forces of the Etheric Christ surface sometimes a picture of how some karmic event might take shape and resolve itself in the future...  And our stunned karmic i am sees how this deep picture has issued up from the depths of our being, to resolve some karmic error, or failed and damaging event. But humans without a conscience or merely an Ahrimanic shell, will dismiss this haunting vision and what will ensue are nervous tics and nervous pyschic conditions  that are then numbed even further and distorted through medical abuses. 

                         But also we are together surrounded by humanity with tangled, festering and icy motives, gleeful lusts and avarice directed selfish designs with no grasp of how these instincts and motives move through our will or what soul terrain of Devachan holiness or nightmare we apparently strike from.  Even if what moves through our will as previous incarnations tendencies that now attract the instinctive soul to political and ahrimanic deceptions we won't, don't and are afraid to examine our motives and instincts ..  Afraid to bring the clarity of common sense and decency into how we address and treat other human spirits that are standing side by side with us on our destiny paths. Because if we do, we enter the sweet complexities of the Michael School and the layers of soul and real beings that are bent on imprisoning us in our deceptions.  NICE!  

                        Knowing the nature of some of the regions of the soul where icy lies, deceptions and torture, war and human egotism have been fed to the point of bloating and repressing common sense and supporting war mongering traitors, false flag deceptions, and schools to promote such attitudes puts us in the target line of MSM, Main Stream Media, the military industrial arm of bio-weaponry, torture and fully destructive concepts in education and medical science that promote and further the For Profit deception of human frivolity in the face of mass murder.  It also is a juicy opportunity in The Fifth Epoch to gain schooling by seeing, understanding and navigating the deceptions that are thrown at us. 

                        For even now, because of these pre-emptive wars, we drive our cars on gas guzzling murder, we go to the grocery and the mall on companies that are thriving on murder, thriving on our jobs being required and us going to our job on the back of gasoline prices and world karma.  Evil Ahrimanic decisions that have placed us as guilty of failure to stop the monsters from growing. No effort to create wholly different energy efficient autos is seriously considered and boycott and refusal to support idiots in office numbs the complacent intellect,  but rather super power, false flag, media driven murder of our fellow human beings by our own high ranking officials in order to blame it on some group.... Jews or Arabs, it makes no difference!

                        The lie is deeply rooted in the tangle of human instincts and too awful or honest for the chicken meely mouthed christian to wrestle with.  The deception and the fallacies find root in the darkened instinctual double and bypasses our human thinking that is now able to see, with Michael Intelligence into the motives of Ahriman or for the few who try to  see, also into  the higher regions of the new Consciousness Soul frontiers of human ethics and warm Christic heart striving.   And far too slowly, such films like Vendetta and imaginations trickle into the soul as Entertainment instead of preliminary schooling with spiritual depth and honesty behind them. We are in the midst of Fifth Epoch Michael Schooling and discernment and we are wading through wonderful examples of Ahrimanic and Luciferic imaginations as well as challenges to transform these impulses to ever deeper roots of thinking within us.  To see the inverted Ahrimanic images and like an inverted image reverse it and set it properly within our higher human striving against the inverted image and the inverted logic that humanity wants to adapt as normal tendencies.   

                      • Gloria
                        this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany anthroposophy succeeds - as much as
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jun 3, 2007
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                          this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the beliefs and action is not really met here.  See, in Germany anthroposophy succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people make it be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is just consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to mankind.  However, one can no longer say that it is the way it is, not being what it should be.  Possibly man is attributing to Ahriman much of the load that man alone is creating, and neglecting. 
                          -Gloria

                          holderlin66 <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                          Carol,  thank you for your clarity in your response to Gloria. And thanks Gloria for standing with a flashlight in the dark.  We all miss the Christian Community and we are all hardly strong enough to keep our cognitive balance daily when we are usually standing as 1 in 10,000.  Alex Jones comes into my restaurant in Austin Texas frequently and from his base in Austin Texas  the whole context of the Fabrication of terror and False flags are richly explored by him. 
                          Ron Paul the current hopeless candidate for President in the current debached and deceptive big money nightmare of American politics. Ron Paul is hopeless because of the problems that Carol, Gloria, Steve and so many others have richly and intelligently described. Hopeless because big media and money want only certain players to play the game that will sustain the immense Ahrimanic deception going on in the shadow instincts of humanity.  Humanity finds itself sinking in the Ahrimanic imaginations and machinations of cultural Ahrimanic deceptions with no sense of struggle or fight.  We truly stand, in the Michael School, to make the obvious clear, that true common sensehood and humanity, specifically our children, are not swallowed Jona like into the numbing maw of Ahrimanic complacency.
                          To stand upon the Ahrimanic ground under our feet, the Representative of Humanity was carved by Steiner to show the ground beneath our feetthat  is riddled with deception that the common thinking human cannot get a fix on because of the massive educational deceptions and corporate lies that the human soul is unable to orientate themselves against. Nor turn Ahrimanic thinking right around to Michael thinking. 
                           The Representative of Humanity that STeiner carved also has a heady ceiling, a sistine chapel for each soul and every soul has wishes and desires floating on the ceiling or swarming and hunting in the depths.  That Sistine ceiling above us is our chapel  our own Luciferic intentions motives, and fantasies that fall in various regions of Sentient Soul or Intellectual Soul or shrunken and limited Consciousness Soul, limp dimensions which, of those, of course The Geneva Conventions, brush against the Angelic region of how each human being is a holy replication of one of their progressive species in time. That what we hold sacred before us is the mighty manifestation of an incarnation chiseled and molded for use in a stretch of karmic time and higher soul teaching and instruction. 
                          Here we stand before a human being, a riddle, loaded with ancient history and Karma and we carry a collective unconscious, untapped memory field rooted in our Etheric and Astral integrations and co-designed by the Angels and The Lord of Karma Himself/Herself. ... But we hardly rebuild our grasp of looking at the Representative of Humanity and understanding that the grounds we walk on are the bubbling, thrusting imaginations,  stalagmite like mineral deposit (speleothem) which projects upwards from a cave floor, are riddled with media imaginations and a humanity without a compass as to how the human i am proceeds through this new realm of Michael/ahriman cognition. 
                          We hardly take the Imagination of the Michael and Christic Human Soul raying forth the clarification of Michael Intelligence that presses the Ahrimanic Imaginations under our feet with enough seriousness to steer our self-inflicted numbness and deliberate dumbness of soul.  Humanity, aside from a weakened Michael School, which should be able to keep the pathways open for Cosmic Intelligence and Human Intelligence to walk or stride forward as the mighty statue strides through Earth time, stumbles rather than strides. But how you describe that we are wading through upthrusting stalagmite like imaginations that numb thinking and education all through the entire compromised and dishonest system we drag our children through is really a huffing and puffing effort, when it is far easier to have little tea parties herbal teas.
                          This hardly dismisses the idea that overhead in each individual there is a unique sistine chapel ceiling of dynamic emotional forces that swirl and conform themselves to our subjective wishes.  And we wish and our wish and our motives flood our souls. And through Spiritual Science we can track wish, desire and motive through the deeper layers of Sentient, Intellectual and Consciousness Soul sub-system dynamics in the soul workings of the human being.  Steiner in his Study of Man refutes the church's egotistic system of repentance.  Rather resolution and feeling rather that whatever we do, we carry the striving that we really could have done it better.  None of us have ever really done much of anything great, right or improved so much as in inch of the world.... at least that is the foundation of healthy human soul humility. But the Church lamed and lied and mis-fed egotistic impulses that are not native to the deeper recessess of our i am.  Our karma offers opportunity to do it right again therefore the quick fix of absolution and repentance that the church has offered as well as money to buy off the guilt of kamaloca has helped to shift the forces of the soul away from the inner healthy truth of the moral i am.
                          Absolution is an integral part of the sacrament of penance and reconciliation. The penitent makes a sacramental confession of all mortal sins to a priest and prays an act of contrition. The priest then assigns a penance and offers absolution in the name of the Trinity, on behalf of the Church
                          R. S.  Study of Man
                          "....You can, e.g., have the following idea: something I wished to do, or did, was good; or you can have some other idea; but that is not what I mean. I mean something that can be faintly heard beneath the impulse of will, but which is still of the nature of will. There is something which always works in the will when we have motives; that is, the wish. I do not now mean the strongly developed wishes out of which the desires are formed, but an undercurrent of wishes that accompany all our motives. They are always present. We perceive this wishing particularly clearly when we carry out something which arises out of a motive in our will, and then we think it over and say to ourselves; what you did then you could do much better. But what is there we do in life, without a feeling that we could have done it better? It would be sad if we were completely contented with anything, for there is nothing which we could not do better still. And this is where we see the difference between a man who is somewhat more civilised and one who is not so advanced, for the latter always has the tendency to be satisfied with himself. The more advanced man never wants to be so thoroughly satisfied with himself because he has always in him the soft undertone of a wish to do better, even to do differently. There is much sinning in this domain. Men regard it as a tremendously noble thing to repent of a deed; but that is not the best that can be done with a deed; for often repentance is based upon sheer egoism: one would like to have done something better in order to be a better man. That is egoistic. Our efforts will only cease to be egoistic when we do not wish to have done a thing better than we have done it, but consider it far more important to do the same thing better next time. The intention which a man has is the more important thing, not the repentance — the endeavour to do the same thing on another occasion. And in this intention wish sounds as an undertone; so that we may well ask the question: What is this undertone of wish which accompanies our intention? For anyone who can really observe the soul this wish is the first element of all that remains over after death. It is something of this remainder which we feel when we say: we ought to have done it better: we wish we had done it better. In the wish, in the form in which I have described it to you, we have something which belongs to the Spirit-Self.
                          Now the wish can become more concrete, it can take on a clearer form, Then it becomes similar to an intention. Then there is formed a kind of mental picture of how a thing would be done better if it had to be done again. I do not, however, lay the greatest stress on the mental picture, but on the feeling and the will elements which accompany each motive, the intention to do a thing better in a similar case. Here the so-called sub-conscious in man plays a prominent part. If in your ordinary consciousness to-day you perform an action out of your own will, you do not necessarily make an idea in your mind of how you will do it. But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this. Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you.
                          That so-called scientific line of thought which calls itself analytical psychology, "psycho-analysis, " talks a lot of nonsense about this "second man." This psycho-analysis usually starts from the following classic example in setting forth its principles. I have already told you this story, but it is good to call it to mind again. It is as follows: A man gives an evening party at his house, and it is known that, immediately after the party is over, the lady of the house is going away to a Spa. There are at the party various people, among them a lady. The party is given. The lady of the house is taken to the train that she may travel to the Spa. The rest of the party leaves and with them the lady already mentioned. She, with the other members of the party, is overtaken at a crossroads by a carriage which, coming round a corner from another street, is not seen until it is quite close. What do the people coming from the party do? Of course they avoid the carriage by going right and left, with the exception of the lady. She runs as fast as she can in front of the horses dawn the middle of the street. The coachman does not stop and the rest of the party are terrified. But the lady runs so fast that the others cannot follow her, and she runs until she comes to a bridge. And even then it does not occur to her to get out of the way. She falls into the water, but she is saved and brought back to her late host's house. And there she is able to spend the night.
                          You find this as an example in many works on psychoanalysis. But something in it is always falsely interpreted. For the question is: what was at the back of this whole incident? The will of the lady. What did she really want to do? She wanted to return to her host's house as soon as his wife had gone away, for she was in love with him. This, however, was not a conscious wish, but something which had its seat in the sub-conscious. And this sub-consciousness of the second man, within us, is often much more shrewd than a man is in his upper consciousness. So clever was the sub-conscious in this case that the lady arranged the whole proceeding up to the moment in which she fell into the water in order to be able to return to her host's house. In fact she saw prophetically that she would be saved. Psycho-analysis tries to get at these hidden soul forces, but it only speaks in general of a "second man." But we are able to know that there does exist in every man what is at work in the subconscious soul forces, and that it often shows itself to be extraordinarily clever, much cleverer than the ordinary activity of the soul.
                          In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other" man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar occasion
                          Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention become a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the Spirit-Man, the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-Self. When you then consider man as a being of Will you can find all these component parts in him: instinct, impulse, desire and motive, and then, playing in as a gentle accompaniment: wish, intention and resolution which are already living in Spirit-Self, Life-Spirit, and Spirit-Man
                          This has a great significance in the development of the human being. For what is thus present under the surface, waiting for the time after death, is expressed in man in image form between birth and death. We describe it there in the same words. We experience wish, intention and resolution through our mental picturing. But we shall only experience wish, intention, resolution as they accord with true manhood when these things are developed and nurtured in the right manner. What wish, intention and resolution really are in deeper human nature, does not appear in the external man between birth and death. Images of them appear in the life of mental pictures. If you only develop ordinary consciousness you know nothing at all of what "wish" is."
                          Bradford concludes;
                          The Second Man within us, and the nature of the icy motives, of Ahriman vs the true motives of the higher human core.... not discounting as well our general luciferic cravings, reveal the pivot between the cunning and clever misleading of our shadow double and that which contains the magnificent cogntive grasp of dynamic forces that stirs in our depths as  Spirit-Selves, our Life-Spirits and our Spirit-Man.  In these depths unique forces of the Etheric Christ surface sometimes a picture of how some karmic event might take shape and resolve itself in the future...  And our stunned karmic i am sees how this deep picture has issued up from the depths of our being, to resolve some karmic error, or failed and damaging event. But humans without a conscience or merely an Ahrimanic shell, will dismiss this haunting vision and what will ensue are nervous tics and nervous pyschic conditions  that are then numbed even further and distorted through medical abuses. 
                           But also we are together surrounded by humanity with tangled, festering and icy motives, gleeful lusts and avarice directed selfish designs with no grasp of how these instincts and motives move through our will or what soul terrain of Devachan holiness or nightmare we apparently strike from.  Even if what moves through our will as previous incarnations tendencies that now attract the instinctive soul to political and ahrimanic deceptions we won't, don't and are afraid to examine our motives and instincts ..  Afraid to bring the clarity of common sense and decency into how we address and treat other human spirits that are standing side by side with us on our destiny paths. Because if we do, we enter the sweet complexities of the Michael School and the layers of soul and real beings that are bent on imprisoning us in our deceptions.  NICE!  
                          Knowing the nature of some of the regions of the soul where icy lies, deceptions and torture, war and human egotism have been fed to the point of bloating and repressing common sense and supporting war mongering traitors, false flag deceptions, and schools to promote such attitudes puts us in the target line of MSM, Main Stream Media, the military industrial arm of bio-weaponry, torture and fully destructive concepts in education and medical science that promote and further the For Profit deception of human frivolity in the face of mass murder.  It also is a juicy opportunity in The Fifth Epoch to gain schooling by seeing, understanding and navigating the deceptions that are thrown at us. 
                          For even now, because of these pre-emptive wars, we drive our cars on gas guzzling murder, we go to the grocery and the mall on companies that are thriving on murder, thriving on our jobs being required and us going to our job on the back of gasoline prices and world karma.  Evil Ahrimanic decisions that have placed us as guilty of failure to stop the monsters from growing. No effort to create wholly different energy efficient autos is seriously considered and boycott and refusal to support idiots in office numbs the complacent intellect,  but rather super power, false flag, media driven murder of our fellow human beings by our own high ranking officials in order to blame it on some group.... Jews or Arabs, it makes no difference!
                          The lie is deeply rooted in the tangle of human instincts and too awful or honest for the chicken meely mouthed christian to wrestle with.  The deception and the fallacies find root in the darkened instinctual double and bypasses our human thinking that is now able to see, with Michael Intelligence into the motives of Ahriman or for the few who try to  see, also into  the higher regions of the new Consciousness Soul frontiers of human ethics and warm Christic heart striving.   And far too slowly, such films like Vendetta and imaginations trickle into the soul as Entertainment instead of preliminary schooling with spiritual depth and honesty behind them. We are in the midst of Fifth Epoch Michael Schooling and discernment and we are wading through wonderful examples of Ahrimanic and Luciferic imaginations as well as challenges to transform these impulses to ever deeper roots of thinking within us.  To see the inverted Ahrimanic images and like an inverted image reverse it and set it properly within our higher human striving against the inverted image and the inverted logic that humanity wants to adapt as normal tendencies.   


                          Don't pick lemons.
                          See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                        • carol
                          this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany anthroposophy succeeds - as much as
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jun 4, 2007
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                            "this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the beliefs and action is not really met here.  See, in Germany anthroposophy succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe , because the people make it be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is just consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to mankind…"

                             

                            I believe that a need has revealed itself to recognize in the most sympathetic manner,  the major (albeit intimate) spiritual differences between various peoples distributed throughout the world. This area of study is ongoing for me,  as are so many other areas of study…

                             

                            From what I know through my own `experience'  and from what I see around me, North Americans do not seem to naturally possess the same spiritual constitution and solid, steadfast understanding which can be seen, to varying degrees,  underlying  individualities from the Middle part of Europe.  Nor do Eastern Europeans seem to carry about them this same inner constitution.

                             

                            Rudolf Steiner differentiated these natural forming underlying constitutions in somewhat of the following.

                             

                            In North Americans,  knowledge of spirit surfaces in an instinctive manner,  in Middle Europe it does so in an intellectual manner and in Eastern Europe it does so  through an inspirational pathway. This is somewhat of a barren overview,  but when observation allows these fundamental distinctions to fill with content,  not only does it permit the possibility for developing warmer rapports with others carrying about them something of a `difference',  but it also opens the way for allowing one the possibility of conceiving of how,  when all these forces work together under a Michaelmic influence, they exist as the  moving forces which humanity uses to advance forward in time, while ensuring harmony with the `life bearing' Spiritual ones of this world and  beyond it.  

                             

                            I visualized these differences in the following manner:  The North American carries his/her spirit forces deep in his pocket (ready to be grabbed and used at any decisive moment),  the middle European wears them as his/her warm, securing vest and the Slavic sees them on the path set before him and under his feet,  leading him/her forward in time, along with the rest of humanity,  into a more spiritualized future.

                             

                            Rudolf Steiner indicated that the Middle European, through his capacity of intellectually interpreting Spirit,  could be brought to act as the bridging (directional?) force between the East and the West.  (?)   This would seem possible since neither the East nor the West seem to intrinsically possess natural forming, solid (full body)capabilities in this/their common domain, even when they engage themselves in Anthroposophical studies.

                             

                            And stepping out of theory,  how and where does this play itself out?

                             

                            The extract of the lecture which Bradford brought forth gives a clue.

                             

                             

                            "But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this. Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you…

                             

                            …In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other" man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar occasion

                            Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention become a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the Spirit-Man, the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-Self. http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/StudyMan/19190825a01.html

                            PS. I gave it a good try!  C.

                             


                            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria <gloriabjork@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany anthroposophy succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people make it be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is just consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to mankind. However, one can no longer say that it is the way it is, not being what it should be. Possibly man is attributing to Ahriman much of the load that man alone is creating, and neglecting.
                            > -Gloria
                            >
                            > holderlin66 holderlin66@... wrote:
                            > Carol, thank you for your clarity in your response to Gloria. And thanks Gloria for standing with a flashlight in the dark. We all miss the Christian Community and we are all hardly strong enough to keep our cognitive balance daily when we are usually standing as 1 in 10,000. Alex Jones comes into my restaurant in Austin Texas frequently and from his base in Austin Texas the whole context of the Fabrication of terror and False flags are richly explored by him.
                            > Ron Paul the current hopeless candidate for President in the current debached and deceptive big money nightmare of American politics. Ron Paul is hopeless because of the problems that Carol, Gloria, Steve and so many others have richly and intelligently described. Hopeless because big media and money want only certain players to play the game that will sustain the immense Ahrimanic deception going on in the shadow instincts of humanity. Humanity finds itself sinking in the Ahrimanic imaginations and machinations of cultural Ahrimanic deceptions with no sense of struggle or fight. We truly stand, in the Michael School, to make the obvious clear, that true common sensehood and humanity, specifically our children, are not swallowed Jona like into the numbing maw of Ahrimanic complacency.
                            > To stand upon the Ahrimanic ground under our feet, the Representative of Humanity was carved by Steiner to show the ground beneath our feetthat is riddled with deception that the common thinking human cannot get a fix on because of the massive educational deceptions and corporate lies that the human soul is unable to orientate themselves against. Nor turn Ahrimanic thinking right around to Michael thinking.
                            > The Representative of Humanity that STeiner carved also has a heady ceiling, a sistine chapel for each soul and every soul has wishes and desires floating on the ceiling or swarming and hunting in the depths. That Sistine ceiling above us is our chapel our own Luciferic intentions motives, and fantasies that fall in various regions of Sentient Soul or Intellectual Soul or shrunken and limited Consciousness Soul, limp dimensions which, of those, of course The Geneva Conventions, brush against the Angelic region of how each human being is a holy replication of one of their progressive species in time. That what we hold sacred before us is the mighty manifestation of an incarnation chiseled and molded for use in a stretch of karmic time and higher soul teaching and instruction.
                            > Here we stand before a human being, a riddle, loaded with ancient history and Karma and we carry a collective unconscious, untapped memory field rooted in our Etheric and Astral integrations and co-designed by the Angels and The Lord of Karma Himself/Herself.... But we hardly rebuild our grasp of looking at the Representative of Humanity and understanding that the grounds we walk on are the bubbling, thrusting imaginations, stalagmite like mineral deposit (speleothem) which projects upwards from a cave floor, are riddled with media imaginations and a humanity without a compass as to how the human i am proceeds through this new realm of Michael/ahriman cognition.
                            > We hardly take the Imagination of the Michael and Christic Human Soul raying forth the clarification of Michael Intelligence that presses the Ahrimanic Imaginations under our feet with enough seriousness to steer our self-inflicted numbness and deliberate dumbness of soul. Humanity, aside from a weakened Michael School, which should be able to keep the pathways open for Cosmic Intelligence and Human Intelligence to walk or stride forward as the mighty statue strides through Earth time, stumbles rather than strides. But how you describe that we are wading through upthrusting stalagmite like imaginations that numb thinking and education all through the entire compromised and dishonest system we drag our children through is really a huffing and puffing effort, when it is far easier to have little tea parties herbal teas.
                            > This hardly dismisses the idea that overhead in each individual there is a unique sistine chapel ceiling of dynamic emotional forces that swirl and conform themselves to our subjective wishes. And we wish and our wish and our motives flood our souls. And through Spiritual Science we can track wish, desire and motive through the deeper layers of Sentient, Intellectual and Consciousness Soul sub-system dynamics in the soul workings of the human being. Steiner in his Study of Man refutes the church's egotistic system of repentance. Rather resolution and feeling rather that whatever we do, we carry the striving that we really could have done it better. None of us have ever really done much of anything great, right or improved so much as in inch of the world.... at least that is the foundation of healthy human soul humility. But the Church lamed and lied and mis-fed egotistic impulses that are not native to the deeper recessess of our i am. Our karma offers opportunity to
                            > do it right again therefore the quick fix of absolution and repentance that the church has offered as well as money to buy off the guilt of kamaloca has helped to shift the forces of the soul away from the inner healthy truth of the moral i am.
                            > Absolution is an integral part of the sacrament of penance and reconciliation. The penitent makes a sacramental confession of all mortal sins to a priest and prays an act of contrition. The priest then assigns a penance and offers absolution in the name of the Trinity, on behalf of the Church:
                            > R. S. Study of Man
                            > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/StudyMan/19190825a01.html
                            > "....You can, e.g., have the following idea: something I wished to do, or did, was good; or you can have some other idea; but that is not what I mean. I mean something that can be faintly heard beneath the impulse of will, but which is still of the nature of will. There is something which always works in the will when we have motives; that is, the wish. I do not now mean the strongly developed wishes out of which the desires are formed, but an undercurrent of wishes that accompany all our motives. They are always present. We perceive this wishing particularly clearly when we carry out something which arises out of a motive in our will, and then we think it over and say to ourselves; what you did then you could do much better. But what is there we do in life, without a feeling that we could have done it better? It would be sad if we were completely contented with anything, for there is nothing which we could not do better still. And this is where we see the difference
                            > between a man who is somewhat more civilised and one who is not so advanced, for the latter always has the tendency to be satisfied with himself. The more advanced man never wants to be so thoroughly satisfied with himself because he has always in him the soft undertone of a wish to do better, even to do differently. There is much sinning in this domain. Men regard it as a tremendously noble thing to repent of a deed; but that is not the best that can be done with a deed; for often repentance is based upon sheer egoism: one would like to have done something better in order to be a better man. That is egoistic. Our efforts will only cease to be egoistic when we do not wish to have done a thing better than we have done it, but consider it far more important to do the same thing better next time. The intention which a man has is the more important thing, not the repentance — the endeavour to do the same thing on another occasion. And in this intention wish sounds as an
                            > undertone; so that we may well ask the question: What is this undertone of wish which accompanies our intention? For anyone who can really observe the soul this wish is the first element of all that remains over after death. It is something of this remainder which we feel when we say: we ought to have done it better: we wish we had done it better. In the wish, in the form in which I have described it to you, we have something which belongs to the Spirit-Self.
                            > Now the wish can become more concrete, it can take on a clearer form, Then it becomes similar to an intention. Then there is formed a kind of mental picture of how a thing would be done better if it had to be done again. I do not, however, lay the greatest stress on the mental picture, but on the feeling and the will elements which accompany each motive, the intention to do a thing better in a similar case. Here the so-called sub-conscious in man plays a prominent part. If in your ordinary consciousness to-day you perform an action out of your own will, you do not necessarily make an idea in your mind of how you will do it. But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this. Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you.
                            >
                            > That so-called scientific line of thought which calls itself analytical psychology, "psycho-analysis," talks a lot of nonsense about this "second man." This psycho-analysis usually starts from the following classic example in setting forth its principles. I have already told you this story, but it is good to call it to mind again. It is as follows: A man gives an evening party at his house, and it is known that, immediately after the party is over, the lady of the house is going away to a Spa. There are at the party various people, among them a lady. The party is given. The lady of the house is taken to the train that she may travel to the Spa. The rest of the party leaves and with them the lady already mentioned. She, with the other members of the party, is overtaken at a crossroads by a carriage which, coming round a corner from another street, is not seen until it is quite close. What do the people coming from the party do? Of course they avoid the carriage by going
                            > right and left, with the exception of the lady. She runs as fast as she can in front of the horses dawn the middle of the street. The coachman does not stop and the rest of the party are terrified. But the lady runs so fast that the others cannot follow her, and she runs until she comes to a bridge. And even then it does not occur to her to get out of the way. She falls into the water, but she is saved and brought back to her late host's house. And there she is able to spend the night.
                            >
                            > You find this as an example in many works on psychoanalysis. But something in it is always falsely interpreted. For the question is: what was at the back of this whole incident? The will of the lady. What did she really want to do? She wanted to return to her host's house as soon as his wife had gone away, for she was in love with him. This, however, was not a conscious wish, but something which had its seat in the sub-conscious. And this sub-consciousness of the second man, within us, is often much more shrewd than a man is in his upper consciousness. So clever was the sub-conscious in this case that the lady arranged the whole proceeding up to the moment in which she fell into the water in order to be able to return to her host's house. In fact she saw prophetically that she would be saved. Psycho-analysis tries to get at these hidden soul forces, but it only speaks in general of a "second man." But we are able to know that there does exist in every man what is at
                            > work in the subconscious soul forces, and that it often shows itself to be extraordinarily clever, much cleverer than the ordinary activity of the soul.
                            >
                            > In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other" man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar occasion
                            >
                            > Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention become a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the Spirit-Man, the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-Self. When you then consider man as a being of Will you can find all these component parts in him: instinct, impulse, desire and motive, and then, playing in as a gentle accompaniment: wish, intention and resolution which are already living in Spirit-Self, Life-Spirit, and Spirit-Man
                            >
                            > This has a great significance in the development of the human being. For what is thus present under the surface, waiting for the time after death, is expressed in man in image form between birth and death. We describe it there in the same words. We experience wish, intention and resolution through our mental picturing. But we shall only experience wish, intention, resolution as they accord with true manhood when these things are developed and nurtured in the right manner. What wish, intention and resolution really are in deeper human nature, does not appear in the external man between birth and death. Images of them appear in the life of mental pictures. If you only develop ordinary consciousness you know nothing at all of what "wish" is."
                            > Bradford concludes;
                            > The Second Man within us, and the nature of the icy motives, of Ahriman vs the true motives of the higher human core.... not discounting as well our general luciferic cravings, reveal the pivot between the cunning and clever misleading of our shadow double and that which contains the magnificent cogntive grasp of dynamic forces that stirs in our depths as Spirit-Selves, our Life-Spirits and our Spirit-Man. In these depths unique forces of the Etheric Christ surface sometimes a picture of how some karmic event might take shape and resolve itself in the future... And our stunned karmic i am sees how this deep picture has issued up from the depths of our being, to resolve some karmic error, or failed and damaging event. But humans without a conscience or merely an Ahrimanic shell, will dismiss this haunting vision and what will ensue are nervous tics and nervous pyschic conditions that are then numbed even further and distorted through medical abuses.
                            > But also we are together surrounded by humanity with tangled, festering and icy motives, gleeful lusts and avarice directed selfish designs with no grasp of how these instincts and motives move through our will or what soul terrain of Devachan holiness or nightmare we apparently strike from. Even if what moves through our will as previous incarnations tendencies that now attract the instinctive soul to political and ahrimanic deceptions we won't, don't and are afraid to examine our motives and instincts .. Afraid to bring the clarity of common sense and decency into how we address and treat other human spirits that are standing side by side with us on our destiny paths. Because if we do, we enter the sweet complexities of the Michael School and the layers of soul and real beings that are bent on imprisoning us in our deceptions. NICE!
                            > Knowing the nature of some of the regions of the soul where icy lies, deceptions and torture, war and human egotism have been fed to the point of bloating and repressing common sense and supporting war mongering traitors, false flag deceptions, and schools to promote such attitudes puts us in the target line of MSM, Main Stream Media, the military industrial arm of bio-weaponry, torture and fully destructive concepts in education and medical science that promote and further the For Profit deception of human frivolity in the face of mass murder. It also is a juicy opportunity in The Fifth Epoch to gain schooling by seeing, understanding and navigating the deceptions that are thrown at us.
                            > For even now, because of these pre-emptive wars, we drive our cars on gas guzzling murder, we go to the grocery and the mall on companies that are thriving on murder, thriving on our jobs being required and us going to our job on the back of gasoline prices and world karma. Evil Ahrimanic decisions that have placed us as guilty of failure to stop the monsters from growing. No effort to create wholly different energy efficient autos is seriously considered and boycott and refusal to support idiots in office numbs the complacent intellect, but rather super power, false flag, media driven murder of our fellow human beings by our own high ranking officials in order to blame it on some group.... Jews or Arabs, it makes no difference!
                            > The lie is deeply rooted in the tangle of human instincts and too awful or honest for the chicken meely mouthed christian to wrestle with. The deception and the fallacies find root in the darkened instinctual double and bypasses our human thinking that is now able to see, with Michael Intelligence into the motives of Ahriman or for the few who try to see, also into the higher regions of the new Consciousness Soul frontiers of human ethics and warm Christic heart striving. And far too slowly, such films like Vendetta and imaginations trickle into the soul as Entertainment instead of preliminary schooling with spiritual depth and honesty behind them. We are in the midst of Fifth Epoch Michael Schooling and discernment and we are wading through wonderful examples of Ahrimanic and Luciferic imaginations as well as challenges to transform these impulses to ever deeper roots of thinking within us. To see the inverted Ahrimanic images and like an inverted image reverse it
                            > and set it properly within our higher human striving against the inverted image and the inverted logic that humanity wants to adapt as normal tendencies.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Don't pick lemons.
                            > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                            >

                          • Gloria
                            Simply put, I see too much complacency in North American s culture. Steiner may have said it in a more digestible form, but at the moment there is no longer a
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jun 4, 2007
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                              Simply put, I see too much complacency in North American's culture.  Steiner may have said it in a more digestible form, but at the moment there is no longer a division in terms of space or distance, since things (and thoughts) have tended to become pretty much global.  You only need to go to any interesting city of Europe in the summer, and watch the herds of North American tourists wandering up and down the roads.  It is apparent that the exchanges have become more overt, and so the giving and taking.  Under the current conditions of globalization, outsourcing, offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should utilize the perception of Steiner - who lived in the century before the last - as a measure to redefine the current necessity for awakening that underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going through.  Before it may turn too late. 

                              Regards,

                              -Gloria

                              carol <organicethics@...> wrote:
                              "this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the beliefs and action is not really met here.  See, in Germany anthroposophy succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe , because the people make it be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is just consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to mankind…"
                               
                              I believe that a need has revealed itself to recognize in the most sympathetic manner,  the major (albeit intimate) spiritual differences between various peoples distributed throughout the world. This area of study is ongoing for me,  as are so many other areas of study…
                               
                              From what I know through my own `experience'  and from what I see around me, North Americans do not seem to naturally possess the same spiritual constitution and solid, steadfast understanding which can be seen, to varying degrees,  underlying  individualities from the Middle part of Europe.  Nor do Eastern Europeans seem to carry about them this same inner constitution.
                               
                              Rudolf Steiner differentiated these natural forming underlying constitutions in somewhat of the following.
                               
                              In North Americans,  knowledge of spirit surfaces in an instinctive manner,  in Middle Europe it does so in an intellectual manner and in Eastern Europe it does so  through an inspirational pathway. This is somewhat of a barren overview,  but when observation allows these fundamental distinctions to fill with content,  not only does it permit the possibility for developing warmer rapports with others carrying about them something of a `difference' ,  but it also opens the way for allowing one the possibility of conceiving of how,  when all these forces work together under a Michaelmic influence, they exist as the  moving forces which humanity uses to advance forward in time, while ensuring harmony with the `life bearing' Spiritual ones of this world and  beyond it.  
                               
                              I visualized these differences in the following manner:  The North American carries his/her spirit forces deep in his pocket (ready to be grabbed and used at any decisive moment),  the middle European wears them as his/her warm, securing vest and the Slavic sees them on the path set before him and under his feet,  leading him/her forward in time, along with the rest of humanity,  into a more spiritualized future.
                               
                              Rudolf Steiner indicated that the Middle European, through his capacity of intellectually interpreting Spirit,  could be brought to act as the bridging (directional? ) force between the East and the West.  (?)   This would seem possible since neither the East nor the West seem to intrinsically possess natural forming, solid (full body)capabilities in this/their common domain, even when they engage themselves in Anthroposophical studies.
                               
                              And stepping out of theory,  how and where does this play itself out?
                               
                              The extract of the lecture which Bradford brought forth gives a clue.
                               
                               
                              "But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this. Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you…
                               
                              …In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other" man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar occasion
                              Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention become a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the Spirit-Man, the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-Self. http://wn.rsarchive .org/Lectures/ StudyMan/ 19190825a01. html
                              PS. I gave it a good try!  C.
                               

                              --- In anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, Gloria <gloriabjork@ ...> wrote:
                              >
                              > this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany anthroposophy succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people make it be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is just consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to mankind. However, one can no longer say that it is the way it is, not being what it should be. Possibly man is attributing to Ahriman much of the load that man alone is creating, and neglecting.
                              > -Gloria
                              >
                              > holderlin66 holderlin66@ ... wrote:
                              > Carol, thank you for your clarity in your response to Gloria. And thanks Gloria for standing with a flashlight in the dark. We all miss the Christian Community and we are all hardly strong enough to keep our cognitive balance daily when we are usually standing as 1 in 10,000. Alex Jones comes into my restaurant in Austin Texas frequently and from his base in Austin Texas the whole context of the Fabrication of terror and False flags are richly explored by him.
                              > Ron Paul the current hopeless candidate for President in the current debached and deceptive big money nightmare of American politics. Ron Paul is hopeless because of the problems that Carol, Gloria, Steve and so many others have richly and intelligently described. Hopeless because big media and money want only certain players to play the game that will sustain the immense Ahrimanic deception going on in the shadow instincts of humanity. Humanity finds itself sinking in the Ahrimanic imaginations and machinations of cultural Ahrimanic deceptions with no sense of struggle or fight. We truly stand, in the Michael School, to make the obvious clear, that true common sensehood and humanity, specifically our children, are not swallowed Jona like into the numbing maw of Ahrimanic complacency.
                              > To stand upon the Ahrimanic ground under our feet, the Representative of Humanity was carved by Steiner to show the ground beneath our feetthat is riddled with deception that the common thinking human cannot get a fix on because of the massive educational deceptions and corporate lies that the human soul is unable to orientate themselves against. Nor turn Ahrimanic thinking right around to Michael thinking.
                              > The Representative of Humanity that STeiner carved also has a heady ceiling, a sistine chapel for each soul and every soul has wishes and desires floating on the ceiling or swarming and hunting in the depths. That Sistine ceiling above us is our chapel our own Luciferic intentions motives, and fantasies that fall in various regions of Sentient Soul or Intellectual Soul or shrunken and limited Consciousness Soul, limp dimensions which, of those, of course The Geneva Conventions, brush against the Angelic region of how each human being is a holy replication of one of their progressive species in time. That what we hold sacred before us is the mighty manifestation of an incarnation chiseled and molded for use in a stretch of karmic time and higher soul teaching and instruction.
                              > Here we stand before a human being, a riddle, loaded with ancient history and Karma and we carry a collective unconscious, untapped memory field rooted in our Etheric and Astral integrations and co-designed by the Angels and The Lord of Karma Himself/Herself. ... But we hardly rebuild our grasp of looking at the Representative of Humanity and understanding that the grounds we walk on are the bubbling, thrusting imaginations, stalagmite like mineral deposit (speleothem) which projects upwards from a cave floor, are riddled with media imaginations and a humanity without a compass as to how the human i am proceeds through this new realm of Michael/ahriman cognition.
                              > We hardly take the Imagination of the Michael and Christic Human Soul raying forth the clarification of Michael Intelligence that presses the Ahrimanic Imaginations under our feet with enough seriousness to steer our self-inflicted numbness and deliberate dumbness of soul. Humanity, aside from a weakened Michael School, which should be able to keep the pathways open for Cosmic Intelligence and Human Intelligence to walk or stride forward as the mighty statue strides through Earth time, stumbles rather than strides. But how you describe that we are wading through upthrusting stalagmite like imaginations that numb thinking and education all through the entire compromised and dishonest system we drag our children through is really a huffing and puffing effort, when it is far easier to have little tea parties herbal teas.
                              > This hardly dismisses the idea that overhead in each individual there is a unique sistine chapel ceiling of dynamic emotional forces that swirl and conform themselves to our subjective wishes. And we wish and our wish and our motives flood our souls. And through Spiritual Science we can track wish, desire and motive through the deeper layers of Sentient, Intellectual and Consciousness Soul sub-system dynamics in the soul workings of the human being. Steiner in his Study of Man refutes the church's egotistic system of repentance. Rather resolution and feeling rather that whatever we do, we carry the striving that we really could have done it better. None of us have ever really done much of anything great, right or improved so much as in inch of the world.... at least that is the foundation of healthy human soul humility. But the Church lamed and lied and mis-fed egotistic impulses that are not native to the deeper recessess of our i am. Our karma offers opportunity to
                              > do it right again therefore the quick fix of absolution and repentance that the church has offered as well as money to buy off the guilt of kamaloca has helped to shift the forces of the soul away from the inner healthy truth of the moral i am.
                              > Absolution is an integral part of the sacrament of penance and reconciliation. The penitent makes a sacramental confession of all mortal sins to a priest and prays an act of contrition. The priest then assigns a penance and offers absolution in the name of the Trinity, on behalf of the Church:
                              > R. S. Study of Man
                              > http://wn.rsarchive .org/Lectures/ StudyMan/ 19190825a01. html
                              > "....You can, e.g., have the following idea: something I wished to do, or did, was good; or you can have some other idea; but that is not what I mean. I mean something that can be faintly heard beneath the impulse of will, but which is still of the nature of will. There is something which always works in the will when we have motives; that is, the wish. I do not now mean the strongly developed wishes out of which the desires are formed, but an undercurrent of wishes that accompany all our motives. They are always present. We perceive this wishing particularly clearly when we carry out something which arises out of a motive in our will, and then we think it over and say to ourselves; what you did then you could do much better. But what is there we do in life, without a feeling that we could have done it better? It would be sad if we were completely contented with anything, for there is nothing which we could not do better still. And this is where we see the difference
                              > between a man who is somewhat more civilised and one who is not so advanced, for the latter always has the tendency to be satisfied with himself. The more advanced man never wants to be so thoroughly satisfied with himself because he has always in him the soft undertone of a wish to do better, even to do differently. There is much sinning in this domain. Men regard it as a tremendously noble thing to repent of a deed; but that is not the best that can be done with a deed; for often repentance is based upon sheer egoism: one would like to have done something better in order to be a better man. That is egoistic. Our efforts will only cease to be egoistic when we do not wish to have done a thing better than we have done it, but consider it far more important to do the same thing better next time. The intention which a man has is the more important thing, not the repentance — the endeavour to do the same thing on another occasion. And in this intention wish sounds as an
                              > undertone; so that we may well ask the question: What is this undertone of wish which accompanies our intention? For anyone who can really observe the soul this wish is the first element of all that remains over after death. It is something of this remainder which we feel when we say: we ought to have done it better: we wish we had done it better. In the wish, in the form in which I have described it to you, we have something which belongs to the Spirit-Self.
                              > Now the wish can become more concrete, it can take on a clearer form, Then it becomes similar to an intention. Then there is formed a kind of mental picture of how a thing would be done better if it had to be done again. I do not, however, lay the greatest stress on the mental picture, but on the feeling and the will elements which accompany each motive, the intention to do a thing better in a similar case. Here the so-called sub-conscious in man plays a prominent part. If in your ordinary consciousness to-day you perform an action out of your own will, you do not necessarily make an idea in your mind of how you will do it. But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this. Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you.
                              >
                              > That so-called scientific line of thought which calls itself analytical psychology, "psycho-analysis, " talks a lot of nonsense about this "second man." This psycho-analysis usually starts from the following classic example in setting forth its principles. I have already told you this story, but it is good to call it to mind again. It is as follows: A man gives an evening party at his house, and it is known that, immediately after the party is over, the lady of the house is going away to a Spa. There are at the party various people, among them a lady. The party is given. The lady of the house is taken to the train that she may travel to the Spa. The rest of the party leaves and with them the lady already mentioned. She, with the other members of the party, is overtaken at a crossroads by a carriage which, coming round a corner from another street, is not seen until it is quite close. What do the people coming from the party do? Of course they avoid the carriage by going
                              > right and left, with the exception of the lady. She runs as fast as she can in front of the horses dawn the middle of the street. The coachman does not stop and the rest of the party are terrified. But the lady runs so fast that the others cannot follow her, and she runs until she comes to a bridge. And even then it does not occur to her to get out of the way. She falls into the water, but she is saved and brought back to her late host's house. And there she is able to spend the night.
                              >
                              > You find this as an example in many works on psychoanalysis. But something in it is always falsely interpreted. For the question is: what was at the back of this whole incident? The will of the lady. What did she really want to do? She wanted to return to her host's house as soon as his wife had gone away, for she was in love with him. This, however, was not a conscious wish, but something which had its seat in the sub-conscious. And this sub-consciousness of the second man, within us, is often much more shrewd than a man is in his upper consciousness. So clever was the sub-conscious in this case that the lady arranged the whole proceeding up to the moment in which she fell into the water in order to be able to return to her host's house. In fact she saw prophetically that she would be saved. Psycho-analysis tries to get at these hidden soul forces, but it only speaks in general of a "second man." But we are able to know that there does exist in every man what is at
                              > work in the subconscious soul forces, and that it often shows itself to be extraordinarily clever, much cleverer than the ordinary activity of the soul.
                              >
                              > In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other" man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar occasion
                              >
                              > Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention become a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the Spirit-Man, the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-Self. When you then consider man as a being of Will you can find all these component parts in him: instinct, impulse, desire and motive, and then, playing in as a gentle accompaniment: wish, intention and resolution which are already living in Spirit-Self, Life-Spirit, and Spirit-Man
                              >
                              > This has a great significance in the development of the human being. For what is thus present under the surface, waiting for the time after death, is expressed in man in image form between birth and death. We describe it there in the same words. We experience wish, intention and resolution through our mental picturing. But we shall only experience wish, intention, resolution as they accord with true manhood when these things are developed and nurtured in the right manner. What wish, intention and resolution really are in deeper human nature, does not appear in the external man between birth and death. Images of them appear in the life of mental pictures. If you only develop ordinary consciousness you know nothing at all of what "wish" is."
                              > Bradford concludes;
                              > The Second Man within us, and the nature of the icy motives, of Ahriman vs the true motives of the higher human core.... not discounting as well our general luciferic cravings, reveal the pivot between the cunning and clever misleading of our shadow double and that which contains the magnificent cogntive grasp of dynamic forces that stirs in our depths as Spirit-Selves, our Life-Spirits and our Spirit-Man. In these depths unique forces of the Etheric Christ surface sometimes a picture of how some karmic event might take shape and resolve itself in the future... And our stunned karmic i am sees how this deep picture has issued up from the depths of our being, to resolve some karmic error, or failed and damaging event. But humans without a conscience or merely an Ahrimanic shell, will dismiss this haunting vision and what will ensue are nervous tics and nervous pyschic conditions that are then numbed even further and distorted through medical abuses.
                              > But also we are together surrounded by humanity with tangled, festering and icy motives, gleeful lusts and avarice directed selfish designs with no grasp of how these instincts and motives move through our will or what soul terrain of Devachan holiness or nightmare we apparently strike from. Even if what moves through our will as previous incarnations tendencies that now attract the instinctive soul to political and ahrimanic deceptions we won't, don't and are afraid to examine our motives and instincts .. Afraid to bring the clarity of common sense and decency into how we address and treat other human spirits that are standing side by side with us on our destiny paths. Because if we do, we enter the sweet complexities of the Michael School and the layers of soul and real beings that are bent on imprisoning us in our deceptions. NICE!
                              > Knowing the nature of some of the regions of the soul where icy lies, deceptions and torture, war and human egotism have been fed to the point of bloating and repressing common sense and supporting war mongering traitors, false flag deceptions, and schools to promote such attitudes puts us in the target line of MSM, Main Stream Media, the military industrial arm of bio-weaponry, torture and fully destructive concepts in education and medical science that promote and further the For Profit deception of human frivolity in the face of mass murder. It also is a juicy opportunity in The Fifth Epoch to gain schooling by seeing, understanding and navigating the deceptions that are thrown at us.
                              > For even now, because of these pre-emptive wars, we drive our cars on gas guzzling murder, we go to the grocery and the mall on companies that are thriving on murder, thriving on our jobs being required and us going to our job on the back of gasoline prices and world karma. Evil Ahrimanic decisions that have placed us as guilty of failure to stop the monsters from growing. No effort to create wholly different energy efficient autos is seriously considered and boycott and refusal to support idiots in office numbs the complacent intellect, but rather super power, false flag, media driven murder of our fellow human beings by our own high ranking officials in order to blame it on some group.... Jews or Arabs, it makes no difference!
                              > The lie is deeply rooted in the tangle of human instincts and too awful or honest for the chicken meely mouthed christian to wrestle with. The deception and the fallacies find root in the darkened instinctual double and bypasses our human thinking that is now able to see, with Michael Intelligence into the motives of Ahriman or for the few who try to see, also into the higher regions of the new Consciousness Soul frontiers of human ethics and warm Christic heart striving. And far too slowly, such films like Vendetta and imaginations trickle into the soul as Entertainment instead of preliminary schooling with spiritual depth and honesty behind them. We are in the midst of Fifth Epoch Michael Schooling and discernment and we are wading through wonderful examples of Ahrimanic and Luciferic imaginations as well as challenges to transform these impulses to ever deeper roots of thinking within us. To see the inverted Ahrimanic images and like an inverted image reverse it
                              > and set it properly within our higher human striving against the inverted image and the inverted logic that humanity wants to adapt as normal tendencies.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                              > Don't pick lemons.
                              > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                              >


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                            • Stephen Hale
                              ... culture. Steiner may have said it in a more digestible form, but at the moment there is no longer a division in terms of space or distance, since things
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jun 4, 2007
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                                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria <gloriabjork@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Simply put, I see too much complacency in North American's
                                culture. Steiner may have said it in a more digestible form, but at
                                the moment there is no longer a division in terms of space or
                                distance, since things (and thoughts) have tended to become pretty
                                much global. You only need to go to any interesting city of Europe
                                in the summer, and watch the herds of North American tourists
                                wandering up and down the roads. It is apparent that the exchanges
                                have become more overt, and so the giving and taking. Under the
                                current conditions of globalization, outsourcing, offshoring and the
                                like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should utilize the
                                perception of Steiner - who lived in the century before the last -
                                as a measure to redefine the current necessity for awakening that
                                underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going
                                through. Before it may turn too late.
                                >
                                > Regards,
                                >
                                > -Gloria

                                There are spiritual challenges that exist in America that are
                                unique. Having a war on terror commence in spite of hundreds of
                                thousands of protesters against it, means both that people are very
                                actively against this evil, with its mounting evidence that it was
                                caused by dark adversarial powers wearing suits, and also that
                                protestation doesn't really mean much in the outer sense when we
                                have a president who says: "see, this is what it means to be an
                                American; freedom to protest and speak out. This is what we have
                                here today."! "But we're still going in; we have to in order to
                                disable those WMD's, and bring Sadam Hussein down." So, thanks for
                                protesting but no dice.

                                In certain respects, America is a haven for evil forces coming up
                                from the sub-earthly domains. This continent possessed an
                                extraordinary amount of magnetic power, just as the Eastern regions
                                have a preponderance of electrical forces. Expressed spiritually,
                                these represent Ahriman and Lucifer, respectively. America is
                                unique also because it is populated most largely by Middle and
                                Western Europeans for the past 400 years, leaving its native
                                population largely unknown and mostly extinct today, in favor of
                                this European migration and population. Thus, modern American
                                culture has its roots in Europe in this fifth epoch, where the fifth
                                sub-culture represents Anglo-Saxon and Teutonic heritage.

                                So, this is what comprises the mainstream of America today. Little
                                regard is given to just who, and where from, these original native
                                Americans came from, and how they happened to be here for 10,000
                                years before the colonies from Europe began coming here in 1607.
                                Present day America is proud of its cultural heritage, which is
                                exclusive to any knowledge or interest in the source of these first
                                Americans. But, a thousand years before the first colony was
                                settled at Jamestown, a great deal of interest and knowledge of
                                these people's roots existed, and also the awareness of the presence
                                of ahrimanically-oriented magnetic force sufficient enough to be the
                                cause of organic illnesses. And so, early European studies of the
                                causes of organic illnesses were made by way of passage to America
                                on Viking ships in the seventh and eighth centuries. These were the
                                very first Europeans to come here, a thousand years before John
                                Smith; aboard Norwegian ships rowed by Vikings. They came to study
                                the red-skinned race which populated this country, and who were
                                entirely isolated from any cultural influence from outside.

                                Modern medicine is based on these early studies, which were taken
                                back to Europe for further development. And it was determined that
                                the cause of organic illnesses is due to ahriman taking a certain
                                possession of the physical body just before birth, and working there
                                on an instinctive level. So as can readily be seen today,
                                American's suffer from an ever-increasing array of physical
                                disorders of the organic kind, one of the major symptoms of which is
                                obesity. Americans are also prone to other debilitating influences
                                of the sensory kind, designed to undermine the power of active
                                intellect and concentration, which further affects a general kind of
                                sleepy, non-attentive stupor in people. And this all undermines
                                potential, and serves to make an automaton out of what is
                                ostenstibly supposed to be a free and evolving human being.

                                Ahriman proliferates in America, where his father also resides. His
                                name is Asuras.

                                Steve
                              • carol
                                Under the current conditions of globalization, outsourcing, offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should utilize the perception of
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jun 4, 2007
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                                  "Under the current conditions of globalization, outsourcing, offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should utilize the perception of Steiner - who lived in the century before the last - as a measure to redefine the current necessity for awakening that underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going through.  Before it may turn too late."

                                   

                                  Gloria, I feel that you greatly underestimate `the formative spiritual forces' which Rudolf Steiner left behind through at least his published materials;  in some respects, approx. a century has passed since he lived and though it may seem a great span of time when  viewed from a context of 1 single (our present) earth life, it can also be experienced as a short one when one seriously ponders on the frequency in which significant and deeply pronounced incarnations occur through epics of humanity's history (and becoming).

                                   

                                  In today's world, the process of becoming familiar with Ahriman's presence within Western culture by engaging oneself in spirit objectivity (spirit concepts) regardless of where one actually lives,  is one of the steps through which  Anthroposophy's occult `properties' can become animated within one's self as well, our collective soul fabric. As anthroposophists, we do wish, in the least,  to offer ourselves as open windows through which Angelic beings may access and influence our earthly world…

                                   

                                  Your last sentence `Before it may turn too late' seems to express great urgency.  But we do find  through studying spiritual science that humankind's earthly and for that matter heavenly lives unravel within the greatest of complexity.  Taking this into consideration,  your sentence could be still be seen as a call `from the starting line'  to finally wake up, get up and get moving.

                                   

                                  Rudolf Steiner often addressed his attendees with deep heart forces and within their echo (our individual reading), we should still be able to recognize a call for great and reverent patience. And through truly knowing  this patience,   we may all  come to know what actions are already ongoing through Anthroposophia's earthly presence and how we are presently taking  part in them.

                                   

                                  This is just one of the humble ways to approach your objections.  C.

                                   

                                   


                                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria <gloriabjork@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Simply put, I see too much complacency in North American's culture. Steiner may have said it in a more digestible form, but at the moment there is no longer a division in terms of space or distance, since things (and thoughts) have tended to become pretty much global. You only need to go to any interesting city of Europe in the summer, and watch the herds of North American tourists wandering up and down the roads. It is apparent that the exchanges have become more overt, and so the giving and taking. Under the current conditions of globalization, outsourcing, offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should utilize the perception of Steiner - who lived in the century before the last - as a measure to redefine the current necessity for awakening that underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going through. Before it may turn too late.
                                  >
                                  > Regards,
                                  >
                                  > -Gloria
                                  >
                                  > carol organicethics@... wrote:
                                  > "this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany anthroposophy succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people make it be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is just consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to mankind…"
                                  >
                                  > I believe that a need has revealed itself to recognize in the most sympathetic manner, the major (albeit intimate) spiritual differences between various peoples distributed throughout the world. This area of study is ongoing for me, as are so many other areas of study…
                                  >
                                  > From what I know through my own `experience' and from what I see around me, North Americans do not seem to naturally possess the same spiritual constitution and solid, steadfast understanding which can be seen, to varying degrees, underlying individualities from the Middle part of Europe. Nor do Eastern Europeans seem to carry about them this same inner constitution.
                                  >
                                  > Rudolf Steiner differentiated these natural forming underlying constitutions in somewhat of the following.
                                  >
                                  > In North Americans, knowledge of spirit surfaces in an instinctive manner, in Middle Europe it does so in an intellectual manner and in Eastern Europe it does so through an inspirational pathway. This is somewhat of a barren overview, but when observation allows these fundamental distinctions to fill with content, not only does it permit the possibility for developing warmer rapports with others carrying about them something of a `difference', but it also opens the way for allowing one the possibility of conceiving of how, when all these forces work together under a Michaelmic influence, they exist as the moving forces which humanity uses to advance forward in time, while ensuring harmony with the `life bearing' Spiritual ones of this world and beyond it.
                                  >
                                  > I visualized these differences in the following manner: The North American carries his/her spirit forces deep in his pocket (ready to be grabbed and used at any decisive moment), the middle European wears them as his/her warm, securing vest and the Slavic sees them on the path set before him and under his feet, leading him/her forward in time, along with the rest of humanity, into a more spiritualized future.
                                  >
                                  > Rudolf Steiner indicated that the Middle European, through his capacity of intellectually interpreting Spirit, could be brought to act as the bridging (directional?) force between the East and the West. (?) This would seem possible since neither the East nor the West seem to intrinsically possess natural forming, solid (full body)capabilities in this/their common domain, even when they engage themselves in Anthroposophical studies.
                                  >
                                  > And stepping out of theory, how and where does this play itself out?
                                  >
                                  > The extract of the lecture which Bradford brought forth gives a clue.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > "But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this. Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you…
                                  >
                                  > …In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other" man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar occasion
                                  > Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention become a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the Spirit-Man, the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-Self. http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/StudyMan/19190825a01.html
                                  > PS. I gave it a good try! C.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria gloriabjork@ wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany anthroposophy succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people make it be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is just consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to mankind. However, one can no longer say that it is the way it is, not being what it should be. Possibly man is attributing to Ahriman much of the load that man alone is creating, and neglecting.
                                  > > -Gloria
                                  > >
                                  > > holderlin66 holderlin66@ wrote:
                                  > > Carol, thank you for your clarity in your response to Gloria. And thanks Gloria for standing with a flashlight in the dark. We all miss the Christian Community and we are all hardly strong enough to keep our cognitive balance daily when we are usually standing as 1 in 10,000. Alex Jones comes into my restaurant in Austin Texas frequently and from his base in Austin Texas the whole context of the Fabrication of terror and False flags are richly explored by him.
                                  > > Ron Paul the current hopeless candidate for President in the current debached and deceptive big money nightmare of American politics. Ron Paul is hopeless because of the problems that Carol, Gloria, Steve and so many others have richly and intelligently described. Hopeless because big media and money want only certain players to play the game that will sustain the immense Ahrimanic deception going on in the shadow instincts of humanity. Humanity finds itself sinking in the Ahrimanic imaginations and machinations of cultural Ahrimanic deceptions with no sense of struggle or fight. We truly stand, in the Michael School, to make the obvious clear, that true common sensehood and humanity, specifically our children, are not swallowed Jona like into the numbing maw of Ahrimanic complacency.
                                  > > To stand upon the Ahrimanic ground under our feet, the Representative of Humanity was carved by Steiner to show the ground beneath our feetthat is riddled with deception that the common thinking human cannot get a fix on because of the massive educational deceptions and corporate lies that the human soul is unable to orientate themselves against. Nor turn Ahrimanic thinking right around to Michael thinking.
                                  > > The Representative of Humanity that STeiner carved also has a heady ceiling, a sistine chapel for each soul and every soul has wishes and desires floating on the ceiling or swarming and hunting in the depths. That Sistine ceiling above us is our chapel our own Luciferic intentions motives, and fantasies that fall in various regions of Sentient Soul or Intellectual Soul or shrunken and limited Consciousness Soul, limp dimensions which, of those, of course The Geneva Conventions, brush against the Angelic region of how each human being is a holy replication of one of their progressive species in time. That what we hold sacred before us is the mighty manifestation of an incarnation chiseled and molded for use in a stretch of karmic time and higher soul teaching and instruction.
                                  > > Here we stand before a human being, a riddle, loaded with ancient history and Karma and we carry a collective unconscious, untapped memory field rooted in our Etheric and Astral integrations and co-designed by the Angels and The Lord of Karma Himself/Herself.... But we hardly rebuild our grasp of looking at the Representative of Humanity and understanding that the grounds we walk on are the bubbling, thrusting imaginations, stalagmite like mineral deposit (speleothem) which projects upwards from a cave floor, are riddled with media imaginations and a humanity without a compass as to how the human i am proceeds through this new realm of Michael/ahriman cognition.
                                  > > We hardly take the Imagination of the Michael and Christic Human Soul raying forth the clarification of Michael Intelligence that presses the Ahrimanic Imaginations under our feet with enough seriousness to steer our self-inflicted numbness and deliberate dumbness of soul. Humanity, aside from a weakened Michael School, which should be able to keep the pathways open for Cosmic Intelligence and Human Intelligence to walk or stride forward as the mighty statue strides through Earth time, stumbles rather than strides. But how you describe that we are wading through upthrusting stalagmite like imaginations that numb thinking and education all through the entire compromised and dishonest system we drag our children through is really a huffing and puffing effort, when it is far easier to have little tea parties herbal teas.
                                  > > This hardly dismisses the idea that overhead in each individual there is a unique sistine chapel ceiling of dynamic emotional forces that swirl and conform themselves to our subjective wishes. And we wish and our wish and our motives flood our souls. And through Spiritual Science we can track wish, desire and motive through the deeper layers of Sentient, Intellectual and Consciousness Soul sub-system dynamics in the soul workings of the human being. Steiner in his Study of Man refutes the church's egotistic system of repentance. Rather resolution and feeling rather that whatever we do, we carry the striving that we really could have done it better. None of us have ever really done much of anything great, right or improved so much as in inch of the world.... at least that is the foundation of healthy human soul humility. But the Church lamed and lied and mis-fed egotistic impulses that are not native to the deeper recessess of our i am. Our karma offers opportunity to
                                  > > do it right again therefore the quick fix of absolution and repentance that the church has offered as well as money to buy off the guilt of kamaloca has helped to shift the forces of the soul away from the inner healthy truth of the moral i am.
                                  > > Absolution is an integral part of the sacrament of penance and reconciliation. The penitent makes a sacramental confession of all mortal sins to a priest and prays an act of contrition. The priest then assigns a penance and offers absolution in the name of the Trinity, on behalf of the Church:
                                  > > R. S. Study of Man
                                  > > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/StudyMan/19190825a01.html
                                  > > "....You can, e.g., have the following idea: something I wished to do, or did, was good; or you can have some other idea; but that is not what I mean. I mean something that can be faintly heard beneath the impulse of will, but which is still of the nature of will. There is something which always works in the will when we have motives; that is, the wish. I do not now mean the strongly developed wishes out of which the desires are formed, but an undercurrent of wishes that accompany all our motives. They are always present. We perceive this wishing particularly clearly when we carry out something which arises out of a motive in our will, and then we think it over and say to ourselves; what you did then you could do much better. But what is there we do in life, without a feeling that we could have done it better? It would be sad if we were completely contented with anything, for there is nothing which we could not do better still. And this is where we see the difference
                                  > > between a man who is somewhat more civilised and one who is not so advanced, for the latter always has the tendency to be satisfied with himself. The more advanced man never wants to be so thoroughly satisfied with himself because he has always in him the soft undertone of a wish to do better, even to do differently. There is much sinning in this domain. Men regard it as a tremendously noble thing to repent of a deed; but that is not the best that can be done with a deed; for often repentance is based upon sheer egoism: one would like to have done something better in order to be a better man. That is egoistic. Our efforts will only cease to be egoistic when we do not wish to have done a thing better than we have done it, but consider it far more important to do the same thing better next time. The intention which a man has is the more important thing, not the repentance — the endeavour to do the same thing on another occasion. And in this intention wish sounds as an
                                  > > undertone; so that we may well ask the question: What is this undertone of wish which accompanies our intention? For anyone who can really observe the soul this wish is the first element of all that remains over after death. It is something of this remainder which we feel when we say: we ought to have done it better: we wish we had done it better. In the wish, in the form in which I have described it to you, we have something which belongs to the Spirit-Self.
                                  > > Now the wish can become more concrete, it can take on a clearer form, Then it becomes similar to an intention. Then there is formed a kind of mental picture of how a thing would be done better if it had to be done again. I do not, however, lay the greatest stress on the mental picture, but on the feeling and the will elements which accompany each motive, the intention to do a thing better in a similar case. Here the so-called sub-conscious in man plays a prominent part. If in your ordinary consciousness to-day you perform an action out of your own will, you do not necessarily make an idea in your mind of how you will do it. But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this. Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you.
                                  > >
                                  > > That so-called scientific line of thought which calls itself analytical psychology, "psycho-analysis," talks a lot of nonsense about this "second man." This psycho-analysis usually starts from the following classic example in setting forth its principles. I have already told you this story, but it is good to call it to mind again. It is as follows: A man gives an evening party at his house, and it is known that, immediately after the party is over, the lady of the house is going away to a Spa. There are at the party various people, among them a lady. The party is given. The lady of the house is taken to the train that she may travel to the Spa. The rest of the party leaves and with them the lady already mentioned. She, with the other members of the party, is overtaken at a crossroads by a carriage which, coming round a corner from another street, is not seen until it is quite close. What do the people coming from the party do? Of course they avoid the carriage by going
                                  > > right and left, with the exception of the lady. She runs as fast as she can in front of the horses dawn the middle of the street. The coachman does not stop and the rest of the party are terrified. But the lady runs so fast that the others cannot follow her, and she runs until she comes to a bridge. And even then it does not occur to her to get out of the way. She falls into the water, but she is saved and brought back to her late host's house. And there she is able to spend the night.
                                  > >
                                  > > You find this as an example in many works on psychoanalysis. But something in it is always falsely interpreted. For the question is: what was at the back of this whole incident? The will of the lady. What did she really want to do? She wanted to return to her host's house as soon as his wife had gone away, for she was in love with him. This, however, was not a conscious wish, but something which had its seat in the sub-conscious. And this sub-consciousness of the second man, within us, is often much more shrewd than a man is in his upper consciousness. So clever was the sub-conscious in this case that the lady arranged the whole proceeding up to the moment in which she fell into the water in order to be able to return to her host's house. In fact she saw prophetically that she would be saved. Psycho-analysis tries to get at these hidden soul forces, but it only speaks in general of a "second man." But we are able to know that there does exist in every man what is at
                                  > > work in the subconscious soul forces, and that it often shows itself to be extraordinarily clever, much cleverer than the ordinary activity of the soul.
                                  > >
                                  > > In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other" man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar occasion
                                  > >
                                  > > Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention become a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the Spirit-Man, the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-Self. When you then consider man as a being of Will you can find all these component parts in him: instinct, impulse, desire and motive, and then, playing in as a gentle accompaniment: wish, intention and resolution which are already living in Spirit-Self, Life-Spirit, and Spirit-Man
                                  > >
                                  > > This has a great significance in the development of the human being. For what is thus present under the surface, waiting for the time after death, is expressed in man in image form between birth and death. We describe it there in the same words. We experience wish, intention and resolution through our mental picturing. But we shall only experience wish, intention, resolution as they accord with true manhood when these things are developed and nurtured in the right manner. What wish, intention and resolution really are in deeper human nature, does not appear in the external man between birth and death. Images of them appear in the life of mental pictures. If you only develop ordinary consciousness you know nothing at all of what "wish" is."
                                  > > Bradford concludes;
                                  > > The Second Man within us, and the nature of the icy motives, of Ahriman vs the true motives of the higher human core.... not discounting as well our general luciferic cravings, reveal the pivot between the cunning and clever misleading of our shadow double and that which contains the magnificent cogntive grasp of dynamic forces that stirs in our depths as Spirit-Selves, our Life-Spirits and our Spirit-Man. In these depths unique forces of the Etheric Christ surface sometimes a picture of how some karmic event might take shape and resolve itself in the future... And our stunned karmic i am sees how this deep picture has issued up from the depths of our being, to resolve some karmic error, or failed and damaging event. But humans without a conscience or merely an Ahrimanic shell, will dismiss this haunting vision and what will ensue are nervous tics and nervous pyschic conditions that are then numbed even further and distorted through medical abuses.
                                  > > But also we are together surrounded by humanity with tangled, festering and icy motives, gleeful lusts and avarice directed selfish designs with no grasp of how these instincts and motives move through our will or what soul terrain of Devachan holiness or nightmare we apparently strike from. Even if what moves through our will as previous incarnations tendencies that now attract the instinctive soul to political and ahrimanic deceptions we won't, don't and are afraid to examine our motives and instincts .. Afraid to bring the clarity of common sense and decency into how we address and treat other human spirits that are standing side by side with us on our destiny paths. Because if we do, we enter the sweet complexities of the Michael School and the layers of soul and real beings that are bent on imprisoning us in our deceptions. NICE!
                                  > > Knowing the nature of some of the regions of the soul where icy lies, deceptions and torture, war and human egotism have been fed to the point of bloating and repressing common sense and supporting war mongering traitors, false flag deceptions, and schools to promote such attitudes puts us in the target line of MSM, Main Stream Media, the military industrial arm of bio-weaponry, torture and fully destructive concepts in education and medical science that promote and further the For Profit deception of human frivolity in the face of mass murder. It also is a juicy opportunity in The Fifth Epoch to gain schooling by seeing, understanding and navigating the deceptions that are thrown at us.
                                  > > For even now, because of these pre-emptive wars, we drive our cars on gas guzzling murder, we go to the grocery and the mall on companies that are thriving on murder, thriving on our jobs being required and us going to our job on the back of gasoline prices and world karma. Evil Ahrimanic decisions that have placed us as guilty of failure to stop the monsters from growing. No effort to create wholly different energy efficient autos is seriously considered and boycott and refusal to support idiots in office numbs the complacent intellect, but rather super power, false flag, media driven murder of our fellow human beings by our own high ranking officials in order to blame it on some group.... Jews or Arabs, it makes no difference!
                                  > > The lie is deeply rooted in the tangle of human instincts and too awful or honest for the chicken meely mouthed christian to wrestle with. The deception and the fallacies find root in the darkened instinctual double and bypasses our human thinking that is now able to see, with Michael Intelligence into the motives of Ahriman or for the few who try to see, also into the higher regions of the new Consciousness Soul frontiers of human ethics and warm Christic heart striving. And far too slowly, such films like Vendetta and imaginations trickle into the soul as Entertainment instead of preliminary schooling with spiritual depth and honesty behind them. We are in the midst of Fifth Epoch Michael Schooling and discernment and we are wading through wonderful examples of Ahrimanic and Luciferic imaginations as well as challenges to transform these impulses to ever deeper roots of thinking within us. To see the inverted Ahrimanic images and like an inverted image reverse it
                                  > > and set it properly within our higher human striving against the inverted image and the inverted logic that humanity wants to adapt as normal tendencies.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ---------------------------------
                                  > > Don't pick lemons.
                                  > > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ---------------------------------
                                  > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
                                  > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
                                  >

                                • Stephen Hale
                                  When Gloria writes and says: What do you think about the fabrication of terror coming out of the United States? , doesn t she mean: What do us anthro s think
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jun 5, 2007
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                                    When Gloria writes and says: "What do you think about the
                                    fabrication of terror coming out of the United States?", doesn't she
                                    mean: What do us anthro's think about it? To me, this is pure
                                    freudian, because she has to know that we anthro's have thought alot
                                    about this fabrication of terror. For myself, I said that the war
                                    on terror was caused through pre-planning that involved destroying
                                    the World Trade Center buildings by way of demolition implosion.
                                    And this is clearly evident. No popular science physics can make an
                                    explosion into an implosion. And if that isn't enough evidence, no
                                    third building is going to come down in sympathy for the other two
                                    the same way. But Americans simply don't want to look at it.

                                    Maybe she confuses Americans with those who take pains to look into
                                    these matters with a clear eye.

                                    Steve

                                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > "Under the current conditions of globalization, outsourcing,
                                    > offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should
                                    > utilize the perception of Steiner - who lived in the century
                                    before the
                                    > last - as a measure to redefine the current necessity for
                                    awakening that
                                    > underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going
                                    > through. Before it may turn too late."
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Gloria, I feel that you greatly underestimate `the formative
                                    > spiritual forces' which Rudolf Steiner left behind through at least
                                    > his published materials; in some respects, approx. a century has
                                    passed
                                    > since he lived and though it may seem a great span of time when
                                    viewed
                                    > from a context of 1 single (our present) earth life, it can also be
                                    > experienced as a short one when one seriously ponders on the
                                    frequency
                                    > in which significant and deeply pronounced incarnations occur
                                    through
                                    > epics of humanity's history (and becoming).
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > In today's world, the process of becoming familiar with
                                    > Ahriman's presence within Western culture by engaging oneself in
                                    > spirit objectivity (spirit concepts) regardless of where one
                                    actually
                                    > lives, is one of the steps through which Anthroposophy's occult
                                    > `properties' can become animated within one's self as well,
                                    > our collective soul fabric. As anthroposophists, we do wish, in the
                                    > least, to offer ourselves as open windows through which Angelic
                                    beings
                                    > may access and influence our earthly world…
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Your last sentence `Before it may turn too late' seems to
                                    > express great urgency. But we do find through studying spiritual
                                    > science that humankind's earthly and for that matter heavenly lives
                                    > unravel within the greatest of complexity. Taking this into
                                    > consideration, your sentence could be still be seen as a call
                                    `from
                                    > the starting line' to finally wake up, get up and get moving.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Rudolf Steiner often addressed his attendees with deep heart
                                    forces and
                                    > within their echo (our individual reading), we should still be
                                    able to
                                    > recognize a call for great and reverent patience. And through truly
                                    > knowing this patience, we may all come to know what actions are
                                    > already ongoing through Anthroposophia's earthly presence and how
                                    we are
                                    > presently taking part in them.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > This is just one of the humble ways to approach your objections.
                                    C.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria <gloriabjork@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Simply put, I see too much complacency in North American's
                                    culture.
                                    > Steiner may have said it in a more digestible form, but at the
                                    moment
                                    > there is no longer a division in terms of space or distance, since
                                    > things (and thoughts) have tended to become pretty much global.
                                    You only
                                    > need to go to any interesting city of Europe in the summer, and
                                    watch
                                    > the herds of North American tourists wandering up and down the
                                    roads. It
                                    > is apparent that the exchanges have become more overt, and so the
                                    giving
                                    > and taking. Under the current conditions of globalization,
                                    outsourcing,
                                    > offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should
                                    > utilize the perception of Steiner - who lived in the century
                                    before the
                                    > last - as a measure to redefine the current necessity for
                                    awakening that
                                    > underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going
                                    > through. Before it may turn too late.
                                    > >
                                    > > Regards,
                                    > >
                                    > > -Gloria
                                    > >
                                    > > carol organicethics@ wrote:
                                    > > "this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the
                                    > beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany
                                    anthroposophy
                                    > succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people
                                    make it
                                    > be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is
                                    just
                                    > consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to
                                    > mankind…"
                                    > >
                                    > > I believe that a need has revealed itself to recognize in the
                                    most
                                    > sympathetic manner, the major (albeit intimate) spiritual
                                    differences
                                    > between various peoples distributed throughout the world. This
                                    area of
                                    > study is ongoing for me, as are so many other areas of study…
                                    > >
                                    > > From what I know through my own `experience' and from what I see
                                    > around me, North Americans do not seem to naturally possess the
                                    same
                                    > spiritual constitution and solid, steadfast understanding which
                                    can be
                                    > seen, to varying degrees, underlying individualities from the
                                    Middle
                                    > part of Europe. Nor do Eastern Europeans seem to carry about them
                                    this
                                    > same inner constitution.
                                    > >
                                    > > Rudolf Steiner differentiated these natural forming underlying
                                    > constitutions in somewhat of the following.
                                    > >
                                    > > In North Americans, knowledge of spirit surfaces in an
                                    instinctive
                                    > manner, in Middle Europe it does so in an intellectual manner and
                                    in
                                    > Eastern Europe it does so through an inspirational pathway. This is
                                    > somewhat of a barren overview, but when observation allows these
                                    > fundamental distinctions to fill with content, not only does it
                                    permit
                                    > the possibility for developing warmer rapports with others carrying
                                    > about them something of a `difference', but it also opens the way
                                    for
                                    > allowing one the possibility of conceiving of how, when all these
                                    forces
                                    > work together under a Michaelmic influence, they exist as the
                                    moving
                                    > forces which humanity uses to advance forward in time, while
                                    ensuring
                                    > harmony with the `life bearing' Spiritual ones of this world and
                                    beyond
                                    > it.
                                    > >
                                    > > I visualized these differences in the following manner: The North
                                    > American carries his/her spirit forces deep in his pocket (ready
                                    to be
                                    > grabbed and used at any decisive moment), the middle European
                                    wears them
                                    > as his/her warm, securing vest and the Slavic sees them on the
                                    path set
                                    > before him and under his feet, leading him/her forward in time,
                                    along
                                    > with the rest of humanity, into a more spiritualized future.
                                    > >
                                    > > Rudolf Steiner indicated that the Middle European, through his
                                    > capacity of intellectually interpreting Spirit, could be brought
                                    to act
                                    > as the bridging (directional?) force between the East and the
                                    West. (?)
                                    > This would seem possible since neither the East nor the West seem
                                    to
                                    > intrinsically possess natural forming, solid (full body)
                                    capabilities in
                                    > this/their common domain, even when they engage themselves in
                                    > Anthroposophical studies.
                                    > >
                                    > > And stepping out of theory, how and where does this play itself
                                    out?
                                    > >
                                    > > The extract of the lecture which Bradford brought forth gives a
                                    clue.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > "But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always
                                    forms
                                    > — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will
                                    > — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same
                                    > position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this.
                                    Above
                                    > all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you…
                                    > >
                                    > > …In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other"
                                    > man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who
                                    always
                                    > makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next
                                    time,
                                    > so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the
                                    intention,
                                    > the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a
                                    similar
                                    > occasion
                                    > > Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention
                                    become a
                                    > resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the
                                    > resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the
                                    Spirit-Man,
                                    > the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-
                                    Self.
                                    > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/StudyMan/19190825a01.html
                                    > > PS. I gave it a good try! C.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria gloriabjork@ wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the
                                    > beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany
                                    anthroposophy
                                    > succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people
                                    make it
                                    > be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is
                                    just
                                    > consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to
                                    > mankind. However, one can no longer say that it is the way it is,
                                    not
                                    > being what it should be. Possibly man is attributing to Ahriman
                                    much of
                                    > the load that man alone is creating, and neglecting.
                                    > > > -Gloria
                                    > > >
                                    > > > holderlin66 holderlin66@ wrote:
                                    > > > Carol, thank you for your clarity in your response to Gloria.
                                    And
                                    > thanks Gloria for standing with a flashlight in the dark. We all
                                    miss
                                    > the Christian Community and we are all hardly strong enough to
                                    keep our
                                    > cognitive balance daily when we are usually standing as 1 in
                                    10,000.
                                    > Alex Jones comes into my restaurant in Austin Texas frequently and
                                    from
                                    > his base in Austin Texas the whole context of the Fabrication of
                                    terror
                                    > and False flags are richly explored by him.
                                    > > > Ron Paul the current hopeless candidate for President in the
                                    current
                                    > debached and deceptive big money nightmare of American politics.
                                    Ron
                                    > Paul is hopeless because of the problems that Carol, Gloria, Steve
                                    and
                                    > so many others have richly and intelligently described. Hopeless
                                    because
                                    > big media and money want only certain players to play the game
                                    that will
                                    > sustain the immense Ahrimanic deception going on in the shadow
                                    instincts
                                    > of humanity. Humanity finds itself sinking in the Ahrimanic
                                    imaginations
                                    > and machinations of cultural Ahrimanic deceptions with no sense of
                                    > struggle or fight. We truly stand, in the Michael School, to make
                                    the
                                    > obvious clear, that true common sensehood and humanity,
                                    specifically our
                                    > children, are not swallowed Jona like into the numbing maw of
                                    Ahrimanic
                                    > complacency.
                                    > > > To stand upon the Ahrimanic ground under our feet, the
                                    > Representative of Humanity was carved by Steiner to show the ground
                                    > beneath our feetthat is riddled with deception that the common
                                    thinking
                                    > human cannot get a fix on because of the massive educational
                                    deceptions
                                    > and corporate lies that the human soul is unable to orientate
                                    themselves
                                    > against. Nor turn Ahrimanic thinking right around to Michael
                                    thinking.
                                    > > > The Representative of Humanity that STeiner carved also has a
                                    heady
                                    > ceiling, a sistine chapel for each soul and every soul has wishes
                                    and
                                    > desires floating on the ceiling or swarming and hunting in the
                                    depths.
                                    > That Sistine ceiling above us is our chapel our own Luciferic
                                    intentions
                                    > motives, and fantasies that fall in various regions of Sentient
                                    Soul or
                                    > Intellectual Soul or shrunken and limited Consciousness Soul, limp
                                    > dimensions which, of those, of course The Geneva Conventions, brush
                                    > against the Angelic region of how each human being is a holy
                                    replication
                                    > of one of their progressive species in time. That what we hold
                                    sacred
                                    > before us is the mighty manifestation of an incarnation chiseled
                                    and
                                    > molded for use in a stretch of karmic time and higher soul
                                    teaching and
                                    > instruction.
                                    > > > Here we stand before a human being, a riddle, loaded with
                                    ancient
                                    > history and Karma and we carry a collective unconscious, untapped
                                    memory
                                    > field rooted in our Etheric and Astral integrations and co-
                                    designed by
                                    > the Angels and The Lord of Karma Himself/Herself.... But we hardly
                                    > rebuild our grasp of looking at the Representative of Humanity and
                                    > understanding that the grounds we walk on are the bubbling,
                                    thrusting
                                    > imaginations, stalagmite like mineral deposit (speleothem) which
                                    > projects upwards from a cave floor, are riddled with media
                                    imaginations
                                    > and a humanity without a compass as to how the human i am proceeds
                                    > through this new realm of Michael/ahriman cognition.
                                    > > > We hardly take the Imagination of the Michael and Christic
                                    Human
                                    > Soul raying forth the clarification of Michael Intelligence that
                                    presses
                                    > the Ahrimanic Imaginations under our feet with enough seriousness
                                    to
                                    > steer our self-inflicted numbness and deliberate dumbness of soul.
                                    > Humanity, aside from a weakened Michael School, which should be
                                    able to
                                    > keep the pathways open for Cosmic Intelligence and Human
                                    Intelligence to
                                    > walk or stride forward as the mighty statue strides through Earth
                                    time,
                                    > stumbles rather than strides. But how you describe that we are
                                    wading
                                    > through upthrusting stalagmite like imaginations that numb
                                    thinking and
                                    > education all through the entire compromised and dishonest system
                                    we
                                    > drag our children through is really a huffing and puffing effort,
                                    when
                                    > it is far easier to have little tea parties herbal teas.
                                    > > > This hardly dismisses the idea that overhead in each individual
                                    > there is a unique sistine chapel ceiling of dynamic emotional
                                    forces
                                    > that swirl and conform themselves to our subjective wishes. And we
                                    wish
                                    > and our wish and our motives flood our souls. And through Spiritual
                                    > Science we can track wish, desire and motive through the deeper
                                    layers
                                    > of Sentient, Intellectual and Consciousness Soul sub-system
                                    dynamics in
                                    > the soul workings of the human being. Steiner in his Study of Man
                                    > refutes the church's egotistic system of repentance. Rather
                                    resolution
                                    > and feeling rather that whatever we do, we carry the striving that
                                    we
                                    > really could have done it better. None of us have ever really done
                                    much
                                    > of anything great, right or improved so much as in inch of the
                                    world....
                                    > at least that is the foundation of healthy human soul humility.
                                    But the
                                    > Church lamed and lied and mis-fed egotistic impulses that are not
                                    native
                                    > to the deeper recessess of our i am. Our karma offers opportunity
                                    to
                                    > > > do it right again therefore the quick fix of absolution and
                                    > repentance that the church has offered as well as money to buy off
                                    the
                                    > guilt of kamaloca has helped to shift the forces of the soul away
                                    from
                                    > the inner healthy truth of the moral i am.
                                    > > > Absolution is an integral part of the sacrament of penance and
                                    > reconciliation. The penitent makes a sacramental confession of all
                                    > mortal sins to a priest and prays an act of contrition. The priest
                                    then
                                    > assigns a penance and offers absolution in the name of the
                                    Trinity, on
                                    > behalf of the Church:
                                    > > > R. S. Study of Man
                                    > > > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/StudyMan/19190825a01.html
                                    > > > "....You can, e.g., have the following idea: something I
                                    wished to
                                    > do, or did, was good; or you can have some other idea; but that is
                                    not
                                    > what I mean. I mean something that can be faintly heard beneath the
                                    > impulse of will, but which is still of the nature of will. There is
                                    > something which always works in the will when we have motives;
                                    that is,
                                    > the wish. I do not now mean the strongly developed wishes out of
                                    which
                                    > the desires are formed, but an undercurrent of wishes that
                                    accompany all
                                    > our motives. They are always present. We perceive this wishing
                                    > particularly clearly when we carry out something which arises out
                                    of a
                                    > motive in our will, and then we think it over and say to
                                    ourselves; what
                                    > you did then you could do much better. But what is there we do in
                                    life,
                                    > without a feeling that we could have done it better? It would be
                                    sad if
                                    > we were completely contented with anything, for there is nothing
                                    which
                                    > we could not do better still. And this is where we see the
                                    difference
                                    > > > between a man who is somewhat more civilised and one who is
                                    not so
                                    > advanced, for the latter always has the tendency to be satisfied
                                    with
                                    > himself. The more advanced man never wants to be so thoroughly
                                    satisfied
                                    > with himself because he has always in him the soft undertone of a
                                    wish
                                    > to do better, even to do differently. There is much sinning in this
                                    > domain. Men regard it as a tremendously noble thing to repent of a
                                    deed;
                                    > but that is not the best that can be done with a deed; for often
                                    > repentance is based upon sheer egoism: one would like to have done
                                    > something better in order to be a better man. That is egoistic. Our
                                    > efforts will only cease to be egoistic when we do not wish to have
                                    done
                                    > a thing better than we have done it, but consider it far more
                                    important
                                    > to do the same thing better next time. The intention which a man
                                    has is
                                    > the more important thing, not the repentance — the endeavour to do
                                    > the same thing on another occasion. And in this intention wish
                                    sounds as
                                    > an
                                    > > > undertone; so that we may well ask the question: What is this
                                    > undertone of wish which accompanies our intention? For anyone who
                                    can
                                    > really observe the soul this wish is the first element of all that
                                    > remains over after death. It is something of this remainder which
                                    we
                                    > feel when we say: we ought to have done it better: we wish we had
                                    done
                                    > it better. In the wish, in the form in which I have described it
                                    to you,
                                    > we have something which belongs to the Spirit-Self.
                                    > > > Now the wish can become more concrete, it can take on a clearer
                                    > form, Then it becomes similar to an intention. Then there is
                                    formed a
                                    > kind of mental picture of how a thing would be done better if it
                                    had to
                                    > be done again. I do not, however, lay the greatest stress on the
                                    mental
                                    > picture, but on the feeling and the will elements which accompany
                                    each
                                    > motive, the intention to do a thing better in a similar case. Here
                                    the
                                    > so-called sub-conscious in man plays a prominent part. If in your
                                    > ordinary consciousness to-day you perform an action out of your own
                                    > will, you do not necessarily make an idea in your mind of how you
                                    will
                                    > do it. But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always
                                    > forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the
                                    > will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the
                                    > same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as
                                    this.
                                    > Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in
                                    you.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > That so-called scientific line of thought which calls itself
                                    > analytical psychology, "psycho-analysis," talks a lot of nonsense
                                    about
                                    > this "second man." This psycho-analysis usually starts from the
                                    > following classic example in setting forth its principles. I have
                                    > already told you this story, but it is good to call it to mind
                                    again. It
                                    > is as follows: A man gives an evening party at his house, and it is
                                    > known that, immediately after the party is over, the lady of the
                                    house
                                    > is going away to a Spa. There are at the party various people,
                                    among
                                    > them a lady. The party is given. The lady of the house is taken to
                                    the
                                    > train that she may travel to the Spa. The rest of the party leaves
                                    and
                                    > with them the lady already mentioned. She, with the other members
                                    of the
                                    > party, is overtaken at a crossroads by a carriage which, coming
                                    round a
                                    > corner from another street, is not seen until it is quite close.
                                    What do
                                    > the people coming from the party do? Of course they avoid the
                                    carriage
                                    > by going
                                    > > > right and left, with the exception of the lady. She runs as
                                    fast as
                                    > she can in front of the horses dawn the middle of the street. The
                                    > coachman does not stop and the rest of the party are terrified.
                                    But the
                                    > lady runs so fast that the others cannot follow her, and she runs
                                    until
                                    > she comes to a bridge. And even then it does not occur to her to
                                    get out
                                    > of the way. She falls into the water, but she is saved and brought
                                    back
                                    > to her late host's house. And there she is able to spend the night.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > You find this as an example in many works on psychoanalysis.
                                    But
                                    > something in it is always falsely interpreted. For the question
                                    is: what
                                    > was at the back of this whole incident? The will of the lady. What
                                    did
                                    > she really want to do? She wanted to return to her host's house as
                                    soon
                                    > as his wife had gone away, for she was in love with him. This,
                                    however,
                                    > was not a conscious wish, but something which had its seat in the
                                    > sub-conscious. And this sub-consciousness of the second man,
                                    within us,
                                    > is often much more shrewd than a man is in his upper
                                    consciousness. So
                                    > clever was the sub-conscious in this case that the lady arranged
                                    the
                                    > whole proceeding up to the moment in which she fell into the water
                                    in
                                    > order to be able to return to her host's house. In fact she saw
                                    > prophetically that she would be saved. Psycho-analysis tries to
                                    get at
                                    > these hidden soul forces, but it only speaks in general of
                                    a "second
                                    > man." But we are able to know that there does exist in every man
                                    what is
                                    > at
                                    > > > work in the subconscious soul forces, and that it often shows
                                    itself
                                    > to be extraordinarily clever, much cleverer than the ordinary
                                    activity
                                    > of the soul.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > In every man there dwells, underground, as it were,
                                    the "other" man.
                                    > In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always
                                    makes up
                                    > his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so
                                    that
                                    > always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the
                                    > unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar
                                    > occasion
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention
                                    become
                                    > a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and
                                    the
                                    > resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the
                                    Spirit-Man,
                                    > the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-
                                    Self.
                                    > When you then consider man as a being of Will you can find all
                                    these
                                    > component parts in him: instinct, impulse, desire and motive, and
                                    then,
                                    > playing in as a gentle accompaniment: wish, intention and
                                    resolution
                                    > which are already living in Spirit-Self, Life-Spirit, and Spirit-
                                    Man
                                    > > >
                                    > > > This has a great significance in the development of the human
                                    being.
                                    > For what is thus present under the surface, waiting for the time
                                    after
                                    > death, is expressed in man in image form between birth and death.
                                    We
                                    > describe it there in the same words. We experience wish, intention
                                    and
                                    > resolution through our mental picturing. But we shall only
                                    experience
                                    > wish, intention, resolution as they accord with true manhood when
                                    these
                                    > things are developed and nurtured in the right manner. What wish,
                                    > intention and resolution really are in deeper human nature, does
                                    not
                                    > appear in the external man between birth and death. Images of them
                                    > appear in the life of mental pictures. If you only develop ordinary
                                    > consciousness you know nothing at all of what "wish" is."
                                    > > > Bradford concludes;
                                    > > > The Second Man within us, and the nature of the icy motives, of
                                    > Ahriman vs the true motives of the higher human core.... not
                                    discounting
                                    > as well our general luciferic cravings, reveal the pivot between
                                    the
                                    > cunning and clever misleading of our shadow double and that which
                                    > contains the magnificent cogntive grasp of dynamic forces that
                                    stirs in
                                    > our depths as Spirit-Selves, our Life-Spirits and our Spirit-Man.
                                    In
                                    > these depths unique forces of the Etheric Christ surface sometimes
                                    a
                                    > picture of how some karmic event might take shape and resolve
                                    itself in
                                    > the future... And our stunned karmic i am sees how this deep
                                    picture has
                                    > issued up from the depths of our being, to resolve some karmic
                                    error, or
                                    > failed and damaging event. But humans without a conscience or
                                    merely an
                                    > Ahrimanic shell, will dismiss this haunting vision and what will
                                    ensue
                                    > are nervous tics and nervous pyschic conditions that are then
                                    numbed
                                    > even further and distorted through medical abuses.
                                    > > > But also we are together surrounded by humanity with tangled,
                                    > festering and icy motives, gleeful lusts and avarice directed
                                    selfish
                                    > designs with no grasp of how these instincts and motives move
                                    through
                                    > our will or what soul terrain of Devachan holiness or nightmare we
                                    > apparently strike from. Even if what moves through our will as
                                    previous
                                    > incarnations tendencies that now attract the instinctive soul to
                                    > political and ahrimanic deceptions we won't, don't and are afraid
                                    to
                                    > examine our motives and instincts .. Afraid to bring the clarity of
                                    > common sense and decency into how we address and treat other human
                                    > spirits that are standing side by side with us on our destiny
                                    paths.
                                    > Because if we do, we enter the sweet complexities of the Michael
                                    School
                                    > and the layers of soul and real beings that are bent on
                                    imprisoning us
                                    > in our deceptions. NICE!
                                    > > > Knowing the nature of some of the regions of the soul where icy
                                    > lies, deceptions and torture, war and human egotism have been fed
                                    to the
                                    > point of bloating and repressing common sense and supporting war
                                    > mongering traitors, false flag deceptions, and schools to promote
                                    such
                                    > attitudes puts us in the target line of MSM, Main Stream Media, the
                                    > military industrial arm of bio-weaponry, torture and fully
                                    destructive
                                    > concepts in education and medical science that promote and further
                                    the
                                    > For Profit deception of human frivolity in the face of mass
                                    murder. It
                                    > also is a juicy opportunity in The Fifth Epoch to gain schooling by
                                    > seeing, understanding and navigating the deceptions that are
                                    thrown at
                                    > us.
                                    > > > For even now, because of these pre-emptive wars, we drive our
                                    cars
                                    > on gas guzzling murder, we go to the grocery and the mall on
                                    companies
                                    > that are thriving on murder, thriving on our jobs being required
                                    and us
                                    > going to our job on the back of gasoline prices and world karma.
                                    Evil
                                    > Ahrimanic decisions that have placed us as guilty of failure to
                                    stop the
                                    > monsters from growing. No effort to create wholly different energy
                                    > efficient autos is seriously considered and boycott and refusal to
                                    > support idiots in office numbs the complacent intellect, but rather
                                    > super power, false flag, media driven murder of our fellow human
                                    beings
                                    > by our own high ranking officials in order to blame it on some
                                    group....
                                    > Jews or Arabs, it makes no difference!
                                    > > > The lie is deeply rooted in the tangle of human instincts and
                                    too
                                    > awful or honest for the chicken meely mouthed christian to wrestle
                                    with.
                                    > The deception and the fallacies find root in the darkened
                                    instinctual
                                    > double and bypasses our human thinking that is now able to see,
                                    with
                                    > Michael Intelligence into the motives of Ahriman or for the few
                                    who try
                                    > to see, also into the higher regions of the new Consciousness Soul
                                    > frontiers of human ethics and warm Christic heart striving. And
                                    far too
                                    > slowly, such films like Vendetta and imaginations trickle into the
                                    soul
                                    > as Entertainment instead of preliminary schooling with spiritual
                                    depth
                                    > and honesty behind them. We are in the midst of Fifth Epoch Michael
                                    > Schooling and discernment and we are wading through wonderful
                                    examples
                                    > of Ahrimanic and Luciferic imaginations as well as challenges to
                                    > transform these impulses to ever deeper roots of thinking within
                                    us. To
                                    > see the inverted Ahrimanic images and like an inverted image
                                    reverse it
                                    > > > and set it properly within our higher human striving against
                                    the
                                    > inverted image and the inverted logic that humanity wants to adapt
                                    as
                                    > normal tendencies.
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ---------------------------------
                                    > > > Don't pick lemons.
                                    > > > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ---------------------------------
                                    > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone
                                    who
                                    > knows.
                                    > > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • Gloria
                                    Steve, thank you for the clear response. I was missing such direct addressing of the situation. Instead, the pushing away the problems on the faults of
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jun 5, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Steve, thank you for the clear response.  I was missing such direct addressing of the situation.  Instead, the pushing away the problems on the faults of Ahriman and his buddies, makes me feel angry and undone.  English is a good language to communicate. But, often I feel that it is also a trap.  For some reason, anthroposophy in German or in Swedish, even in French, feels less stressful.  I just dropped another anthroposophic discussion online, because I couldn't take the contemption that seems to overwhelm the discourses people share. Possibly, anthroposophy is only possible to exist as a healthy discipline of thought and living, when applied to a socialist society in which so many of the agonies and horrors of the consumer's marketsystem won't survive.  I may be biased, but in America, anthroposophy feels like a consumer's good, like going to IKEA or buying for the newest electric appliance. It feels very hollow.  But, I am an outsider and a foreigner.   -Gloria

                                      Stephen Hale <sardisian01@...> wrote:
                                      When Gloria writes and says: "What do you think about the
                                      fabrication of terror coming out of the United States?", doesn't she
                                      mean: What do us anthro's think about it? To me, this is pure
                                      freudian, because she has to know that we anthro's have thought alot
                                      about this fabrication of terror. For myself, I said that the war
                                      on terror was caused through pre-planning that involved destroying
                                      the World Trade Center buildings by way of demolition implosion.
                                      And this is clearly evident. No popular science physics can make an
                                      explosion into an implosion. And if that isn't enough evidence, no
                                      third building is going to come down in sympathy for the other two
                                      the same way. But Americans simply don't want to look at it.

                                      Maybe she confuses Americans with those who take pains to look into
                                      these matters with a clear eye.

                                      Steve

                                      --- In anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, "carol" <organicethics@ ...>
                                      wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > "Under the current conditions of globalization, outsourcing,
                                      > offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should
                                      > utilize the perception of Steiner - who lived in the century
                                      before the
                                      > last - as a measure to redefine the current necessity for
                                      awakening that
                                      > underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going
                                      > through. Before it may turn too late."
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Gloria, I feel that you greatly underestimate `the formative
                                      > spiritual forces' which Rudolf Steiner left behind through at least
                                      > his published materials; in some respects, approx. a century has
                                      passed
                                      > since he lived and though it may seem a great span of time when
                                      viewed
                                      > from a context of 1 single (our present) earth life, it can also be
                                      > experienced as a short one when one seriously ponders on the
                                      frequency
                                      > in which significant and deeply pronounced incarnations occur
                                      through
                                      > epics of humanity's history (and becoming).
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > In today's world, the process of becoming familiar with
                                      > Ahriman's presence within Western culture by engaging oneself in
                                      > spirit objectivity (spirit concepts) regardless of where one
                                      actually
                                      > lives, is one of the steps through which Anthroposophy' s occult
                                      > `properties' can become animated within one's self as well,
                                      > our collective soul fabric. As anthroposophists, we do wish, in the
                                      > least, to offer ourselves as open windows through which Angelic
                                      beings
                                      > may access and influence our earthly world…
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Your last sentence `Before it may turn too late' seems to
                                      > express great urgency. But we do find through studying spiritual
                                      > science that humankind's earthly and for that matter heavenly lives
                                      > unravel within the greatest of complexity. Taking this into
                                      > consideration, your sentence could be still be seen as a call
                                      `from
                                      > the starting line' to finally wake up, get up and get moving.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Rudolf Steiner often addressed his attendees with deep heart
                                      forces and
                                      > within their echo (our individual reading), we should still be
                                      able to
                                      > recognize a call for great and reverent patience. And through truly
                                      > knowing this patience, we may all come to know what actions are
                                      > already ongoing through Anthroposophia' s earthly presence and how
                                      we are
                                      > presently taking part in them.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > This is just one of the humble ways to approach your objections.
                                      C.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, Gloria <gloriabjork@ > wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Simply put, I see too much complacency in North American's
                                      culture.
                                      > Steiner may have said it in a more digestible form, but at the
                                      moment
                                      > there is no longer a division in terms of space or distance, since
                                      > things (and thoughts) have tended to become pretty much global.
                                      You only
                                      > need to go to any interesting city of Europe in the summer, and
                                      watch
                                      > the herds of North American tourists wandering up and down the
                                      roads. It
                                      > is apparent that the exchanges have become more overt, and so the
                                      giving
                                      > and taking. Under the current conditions of globalization,
                                      outsourcing,
                                      > offshoring and the like, it is frankly unpardonable that we should
                                      > utilize the perception of Steiner - who lived in the century
                                      before the
                                      > last - as a measure to redefine the current necessity for
                                      awakening that
                                      > underlies the cultural stupor that the American peoples are going
                                      > through. Before it may turn too late.
                                      > >
                                      > > Regards,
                                      > >
                                      > > -Gloria
                                      > >
                                      > > carol organicethics@ wrote:
                                      > > "this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the
                                      > beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany
                                      anthroposophy
                                      > succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people
                                      make it
                                      > be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is
                                      just
                                      > consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to
                                      > mankind…"
                                      > >
                                      > > I believe that a need has revealed itself to recognize in the
                                      most
                                      > sympathetic manner, the major (albeit intimate) spiritual
                                      differences
                                      > between various peoples distributed throughout the world. This
                                      area of
                                      > study is ongoing for me, as are so many other areas of study…
                                      > >
                                      > > From what I know through my own `experience' and from what I see
                                      > around me, North Americans do not seem to naturally possess the
                                      same
                                      > spiritual constitution and solid, steadfast understanding which
                                      can be
                                      > seen, to varying degrees, underlying individualities from the
                                      Middle
                                      > part of Europe. Nor do Eastern Europeans seem to carry about them
                                      this
                                      > same inner constitution.
                                      > >
                                      > > Rudolf Steiner differentiated these natural forming underlying
                                      > constitutions in somewhat of the following.
                                      > >
                                      > > In North Americans, knowledge of spirit surfaces in an
                                      instinctive
                                      > manner, in Middle Europe it does so in an intellectual manner and
                                      in
                                      > Eastern Europe it does so through an inspirational pathway. This is
                                      > somewhat of a barren overview, but when observation allows these
                                      > fundamental distinctions to fill with content, not only does it
                                      permit
                                      > the possibility for developing warmer rapports with others carrying
                                      > about them something of a `difference' , but it also opens the way
                                      for
                                      > allowing one the possibility of conceiving of how, when all these
                                      forces
                                      > work together under a Michaelmic influence, they exist as the
                                      moving
                                      > forces which humanity uses to advance forward in time, while
                                      ensuring
                                      > harmony with the `life bearing' Spiritual ones of this world and
                                      beyond
                                      > it.
                                      > >
                                      > > I visualized these differences in the following manner: The North
                                      > American carries his/her spirit forces deep in his pocket (ready
                                      to be
                                      > grabbed and used at any decisive moment), the middle European
                                      wears them
                                      > as his/her warm, securing vest and the Slavic sees them on the
                                      path set
                                      > before him and under his feet, leading him/her forward in time,
                                      along
                                      > with the rest of humanity, into a more spiritualized future.
                                      > >
                                      > > Rudolf Steiner indicated that the Middle European, through his
                                      > capacity of intellectually interpreting Spirit, could be brought
                                      to act
                                      > as the bridging (directional? ) force between the East and the
                                      West. (?)
                                      > This would seem possible since neither the East nor the West seem
                                      to
                                      > intrinsically possess natural forming, solid (full body)
                                      capabilities in
                                      > this/their common domain, even when they engage themselves in
                                      > Anthroposophical studies.
                                      > >
                                      > > And stepping out of theory, how and where does this play itself
                                      out?
                                      > >
                                      > > The extract of the lecture which Bradford brought forth gives a
                                      clue.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > "But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always
                                      forms
                                      > — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the will
                                      > — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the same
                                      > position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as this.
                                      Above
                                      > all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in you…
                                      > >
                                      > > …In every man there dwells, underground, as it were, the "other"
                                      > man. In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who
                                      always
                                      > makes up his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next
                                      time,
                                      > so that always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the
                                      intention,
                                      > the unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a
                                      similar
                                      > occasion
                                      > > Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention
                                      become a
                                      > resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and the
                                      > resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the
                                      Spirit-Man,
                                      > the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-
                                      Self.
                                      > http://wn.rsarchive .org/Lectures/ StudyMan/ 19190825a01. html
                                      > > PS. I gave it a good try! C.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, Gloria gloriabjork@ wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > this is all very philosophical, but... the balance between the
                                      > beliefs and action is not really met here. See, in Germany
                                      anthroposophy
                                      > succeeds - as much as in the rest of Europe, because the people
                                      make it
                                      > be successful. Whereas this I see in the capitalistic society is
                                      just
                                      > consumption and not really contribution, neither to culture nor to
                                      > mankind. However, one can no longer say that it is the way it is,
                                      not
                                      > being what it should be. Possibly man is attributing to Ahriman
                                      much of
                                      > the load that man alone is creating, and neglecting.
                                      > > > -Gloria
                                      > > >
                                      > > > holderlin66 holderlin66@ wrote:
                                      > > > Carol, thank you for your clarity in your response to Gloria.
                                      And
                                      > thanks Gloria for standing with a flashlight in the dark. We all
                                      miss
                                      > the Christian Community and we are all hardly strong enough to
                                      keep our
                                      > cognitive balance daily when we are usually standing as 1 in
                                      10,000.
                                      > Alex Jones comes into my restaurant in Austin Texas frequently and
                                      from
                                      > his base in Austin Texas the whole context of the Fabrication of
                                      terror
                                      > and False flags are richly explored by him.
                                      > > > Ron Paul the current hopeless candidate for President in the
                                      current
                                      > debached and deceptive big money nightmare of American politics.
                                      Ron
                                      > Paul is hopeless because of the problems that Carol, Gloria, Steve
                                      and
                                      > so many others have richly and intelligently described. Hopeless
                                      because
                                      > big media and money want only certain players to play the game
                                      that will
                                      > sustain the immense Ahrimanic deception going on in the shadow
                                      instincts
                                      > of humanity. Humanity finds itself sinking in the Ahrimanic
                                      imaginations
                                      > and machinations of cultural Ahrimanic deceptions with no sense of
                                      > struggle or fight. We truly stand, in the Michael School, to make
                                      the
                                      > obvious clear, that true common sensehood and humanity,
                                      specifically our
                                      > children, are not swallowed Jona like into the numbing maw of
                                      Ahrimanic
                                      > complacency.
                                      > > > To stand upon the Ahrimanic ground under our feet, the
                                      > Representative of Humanity was carved by Steiner to show the ground
                                      > beneath our feetthat is riddled with deception that the common
                                      thinking
                                      > human cannot get a fix on because of the massive educational
                                      deceptions
                                      > and corporate lies that the human soul is unable to orientate
                                      themselves
                                      > against. Nor turn Ahrimanic thinking right around to Michael
                                      thinking.
                                      > > > The Representative of Humanity that STeiner carved also has a
                                      heady
                                      > ceiling, a sistine chapel for each soul and every soul has wishes
                                      and
                                      > desires floating on the ceiling or swarming and hunting in the
                                      depths.
                                      > That Sistine ceiling above us is our chapel our own Luciferic
                                      intentions
                                      > motives, and fantasies that fall in various regions of Sentient
                                      Soul or
                                      > Intellectual Soul or shrunken and limited Consciousness Soul, limp
                                      > dimensions which, of those, of course The Geneva Conventions, brush
                                      > against the Angelic region of how each human being is a holy
                                      replication
                                      > of one of their progressive species in time. That what we hold
                                      sacred
                                      > before us is the mighty manifestation of an incarnation chiseled
                                      and
                                      > molded for use in a stretch of karmic time and higher soul
                                      teaching and
                                      > instruction.
                                      > > > Here we stand before a human being, a riddle, loaded with
                                      ancient
                                      > history and Karma and we carry a collective unconscious, untapped
                                      memory
                                      > field rooted in our Etheric and Astral integrations and co-
                                      designed by
                                      > the Angels and The Lord of Karma Himself/Herself. ... But we hardly
                                      > rebuild our grasp of looking at the Representative of Humanity and
                                      > understanding that the grounds we walk on are the bubbling,
                                      thrusting
                                      > imaginations, stalagmite like mineral deposit (speleothem) which
                                      > projects upwards from a cave floor, are riddled with media
                                      imaginations
                                      > and a humanity without a compass as to how the human i am proceeds
                                      > through this new realm of Michael/ahriman cognition.
                                      > > > We hardly take the Imagination of the Michael and Christic
                                      Human
                                      > Soul raying forth the clarification of Michael Intelligence that
                                      presses
                                      > the Ahrimanic Imaginations under our feet with enough seriousness
                                      to
                                      > steer our self-inflicted numbness and deliberate dumbness of soul.
                                      > Humanity, aside from a weakened Michael School, which should be
                                      able to
                                      > keep the pathways open for Cosmic Intelligence and Human
                                      Intelligence to
                                      > walk or stride forward as the mighty statue strides through Earth
                                      time,
                                      > stumbles rather than strides. But how you describe that we are
                                      wading
                                      > through upthrusting stalagmite like imaginations that numb
                                      thinking and
                                      > education all through the entire compromised and dishonest system
                                      we
                                      > drag our children through is really a huffing and puffing effort,
                                      when
                                      > it is far easier to have little tea parties herbal teas.
                                      > > > This hardly dismisses the idea that overhead in each individual
                                      > there is a unique sistine chapel ceiling of dynamic emotional
                                      forces
                                      > that swirl and conform themselves to our subjective wishes. And we
                                      wish
                                      > and our wish and our motives flood our souls. And through Spiritual
                                      > Science we can track wish, desire and motive through the deeper
                                      layers
                                      > of Sentient, Intellectual and Consciousness Soul sub-system
                                      dynamics in
                                      > the soul workings of the human being. Steiner in his Study of Man
                                      > refutes the church's egotistic system of repentance. Rather
                                      resolution
                                      > and feeling rather that whatever we do, we carry the striving that
                                      we
                                      > really could have done it better. None of us have ever really done
                                      much
                                      > of anything great, right or improved so much as in inch of the
                                      world....
                                      > at least that is the foundation of healthy human soul humility.
                                      But the
                                      > Church lamed and lied and mis-fed egotistic impulses that are not
                                      native
                                      > to the deeper recessess of our i am. Our karma offers opportunity
                                      to
                                      > > > do it right again therefore the quick fix of absolution and
                                      > repentance that the church has offered as well as money to buy off
                                      the
                                      > guilt of kamaloca has helped to shift the forces of the soul away
                                      from
                                      > the inner healthy truth of the moral i am.
                                      > > > Absolution is an integral part of the sacrament of penance and
                                      > reconciliation. The penitent makes a sacramental confession of all
                                      > mortal sins to a priest and prays an act of contrition. The priest
                                      then
                                      > assigns a penance and offers absolution in the name of the
                                      Trinity, on
                                      > behalf of the Church:
                                      > > > R. S. Study of Man
                                      > > > http://wn.rsarchive .org/Lectures/ StudyMan/ 19190825a01. html
                                      > > > "....You can, e.g., have the following idea: something I
                                      wished to
                                      > do, or did, was good; or you can have some other idea; but that is
                                      not
                                      > what I mean. I mean something that can be faintly heard beneath the
                                      > impulse of will, but which is still of the nature of will. There is
                                      > something which always works in the will when we have motives;
                                      that is,
                                      > the wish. I do not now mean the strongly developed wishes out of
                                      which
                                      > the desires are formed, but an undercurrent of wishes that
                                      accompany all
                                      > our motives. They are always present. We perceive this wishing
                                      > particularly clearly when we carry out something which arises out
                                      of a
                                      > motive in our will, and then we think it over and say to
                                      ourselves; what
                                      > you did then you could do much better. But what is there we do in
                                      life,
                                      > without a feeling that we could have done it better? It would be
                                      sad if
                                      > we were completely contented with anything, for there is nothing
                                      which
                                      > we could not do better still. And this is where we see the
                                      difference
                                      > > > between a man who is somewhat more civilised and one who is
                                      not so
                                      > advanced, for the latter always has the tendency to be satisfied
                                      with
                                      > himself. The more advanced man never wants to be so thoroughly
                                      satisfied
                                      > with himself because he has always in him the soft undertone of a
                                      wish
                                      > to do better, even to do differently. There is much sinning in this
                                      > domain. Men regard it as a tremendously noble thing to repent of a
                                      deed;
                                      > but that is not the best that can be done with a deed; for often
                                      > repentance is based upon sheer egoism: one would like to have done
                                      > something better in order to be a better man. That is egoistic. Our
                                      > efforts will only cease to be egoistic when we do not wish to have
                                      done
                                      > a thing better than we have done it, but consider it far more
                                      important
                                      > to do the same thing better next time. The intention which a man
                                      has is
                                      > the more important thing, not the repentance — the endeavour to do
                                      > the same thing on another occasion. And in this intention wish
                                      sounds as
                                      > an
                                      > > > undertone; so that we may well ask the question: What is this
                                      > undertone of wish which accompanies our intention? For anyone who
                                      can
                                      > really observe the soul this wish is the first element of all that
                                      > remains over after death. It is something of this remainder which
                                      we
                                      > feel when we say: we ought to have done it better: we wish we had
                                      done
                                      > it better. In the wish, in the form in which I have described it
                                      to you,
                                      > we have something which belongs to the Spirit-Self.
                                      > > > Now the wish can become more concrete, it can take on a clearer
                                      > form, Then it becomes similar to an intention. Then there is
                                      formed a
                                      > kind of mental picture of how a thing would be done better if it
                                      had to
                                      > be done again. I do not, however, lay the greatest stress on the
                                      mental
                                      > picture, but on the feeling and the will elements which accompany
                                      each
                                      > motive, the intention to do a thing better in a similar case. Here
                                      the
                                      > so-called sub-conscious in man plays a prominent part. If in your
                                      > ordinary consciousness to-day you perform an action out of your own
                                      > will, you do not necessarily make an idea in your mind of how you
                                      will
                                      > do it. But the other man living in you, the "second" man, he always
                                      > forms — not indeed as a mental picture, but in the region of the
                                      > will — a clear picture of how he would act if he were again in the
                                      > same position. Be sure you do not undervalue such knowledge as
                                      this.
                                      > Above all do not fail to appreciate this second man who lives in
                                      you.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > That so-called scientific line of thought which calls itself
                                      > analytical psychology, "psycho-analysis, " talks a lot of nonsense
                                      about
                                      > this "second man." This psycho-analysis usually starts from the
                                      > following classic example in setting forth its principles. I have
                                      > already told you this story, but it is good to call it to mind
                                      again. It
                                      > is as follows: A man gives an evening party at his house, and it is
                                      > known that, immediately after the party is over, the lady of the
                                      house
                                      > is going away to a Spa. There are at the party various people,
                                      among
                                      > them a lady. The party is given. The lady of the house is taken to
                                      the
                                      > train that she may travel to the Spa. The rest of the party leaves
                                      and
                                      > with them the lady already mentioned. She, with the other members
                                      of the
                                      > party, is overtaken at a crossroads by a carriage which, coming
                                      round a
                                      > corner from another street, is not seen until it is quite close.
                                      What do
                                      > the people coming from the party do? Of course they avoid the
                                      carriage
                                      > by going
                                      > > > right and left, with the exception of the lady. She runs as
                                      fast as
                                      > she can in front of the horses dawn the middle of the street. The
                                      > coachman does not stop and the rest of the party are terrified.
                                      But the
                                      > lady runs so fast that the others cannot follow her, and she runs
                                      until
                                      > she comes to a bridge. And even then it does not occur to her to
                                      get out
                                      > of the way. She falls into the water, but she is saved and brought
                                      back
                                      > to her late host's house. And there she is able to spend the night.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > You find this as an example in many works on psychoanalysis.
                                      But
                                      > something in it is always falsely interpreted. For the question
                                      is: what
                                      > was at the back of this whole incident? The will of the lady. What
                                      did
                                      > she really want to do? She wanted to return to her host's house as
                                      soon
                                      > as his wife had gone away, for she was in love with him. This,
                                      however,
                                      > was not a conscious wish, but something which had its seat in the
                                      > sub-conscious. And this sub-consciousness of the second man,
                                      within us,
                                      > is often much more shrewd than a man is in his upper
                                      consciousness. So
                                      > clever was the sub-conscious in this case that the lady arranged
                                      the
                                      > whole proceeding up to the moment in which she fell into the water
                                      in
                                      > order to be able to return to her host's house. In fact she saw
                                      > prophetically that she would be saved. Psycho-analysis tries to
                                      get at
                                      > these hidden soul forces, but it only speaks in general of
                                      a "second
                                      > man." But we are able to know that there does exist in every man
                                      what is
                                      > at
                                      > > > work in the subconscious soul forces, and that it often shows
                                      itself
                                      > to be extraordinarily clever, much cleverer than the ordinary
                                      activity
                                      > of the soul.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > In every man there dwells, underground, as it were,
                                      the "other" man.
                                      > In this other man there lives also the "better" man, who always
                                      makes up
                                      > his mind, when he has done a thing, to do it better next time, so
                                      that
                                      > always, as an undertone to every deed, there is the intention, the
                                      > unconscious, subconscious intention to do it better when a similar
                                      > occasion
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Not until the soul is freed from the body does this intention
                                      become
                                      > a resolution. This intention remains like a seed in the soul, and
                                      the
                                      > resolution follows later. The resolution has its seat in the
                                      Spirit-Man,
                                      > the intention in the Life-Spirit and the pure wish in the Spirit-
                                      Self.
                                      > When you then consider man as a being of Will you can find all
                                      these
                                      > component parts in him: instinct, impulse, desire and motive, and
                                      then,
                                      > playing in as a gentle accompaniment: wish, intention and
                                      resolution
                                      > which are already living in Spirit-Self, Life-Spirit, and Spirit-
                                      Man
                                      > > >
                                      > > > This has a great significance in the development of the human
                                      being.
                                      > For what is thus present under the surface, waiting for the time
                                      after
                                      > death, is expressed in man in image form between birth and death.
                                      We
                                      > describe it there in the same words. We experience wish, intention
                                      and
                                      > resolution through our mental picturing. But we shall only
                                      experience
                                      > wish, intention, resolution as they accord with true manhood when
                                      these
                                      > things are developed and nurtured in the right manner. What wish,
                                      > intention and resolution really are in deeper human nature, does
                                      not
                                      > appear in the external man between birth and death. Images of them
                                      > appear in the life of mental pictures. If you only develop ordinary
                                      > consciousness you know nothing at all of what "wish" is."
                                      > > > Bradford concludes;
                                      > > > The Second Man within us, and the nature of the icy motives, of
                                      > Ahriman vs the true motives of the higher human core.... not
                                      discounting
                                      > as well our general luciferic cravings, reveal the pivot between
                                      the
                                      > cunning and clever misleading of our shadow double and that which
                                      > contains the magnificent cogntive grasp of dynamic forces that
                                      stirs in
                                      > our depths as Spirit-Selves, our Life-Spirits and our Spirit-Man.
                                      In
                                      > these depths unique forces of the Etheric Christ surface sometimes
                                      a
                                      > picture of how some karmic event might take shape and resolve
                                      itself in
                                      > the future... And our stunned karmic i am sees how this deep
                                      picture has
                                      > issued up from the depths of our being, to resolve some karmic
                                      error, or
                                      > failed and damaging event. But humans without a conscience or
                                      merely an
                                      > Ahrimanic shell, will dismiss this haunting vision and what will
                                      ensue
                                      > are nervous tics and nervous pyschic conditions that are then
                                      numbed
                                      > even further and distorted through medical abuses.
                                      > > > But also we are together surrounded by humanity with tangled,
                                      > festering and icy motives, gleeful lusts and avarice directed
                                      selfish
                                      > designs with no grasp of how these instincts and motives move
                                      through
                                      > our will or what soul terrain of Devachan holiness or nightmare we
                                      > apparently strike from. Even if what moves through our will as
                                      previous
                                      > incarnations tendencies that now attract the instinctive soul to
                                      > political and ahrimanic deceptions we won't, don't and are afraid
                                      to
                                      > examine our motives and instincts .. Afraid to bring the clarity of
                                      > common sense and decency into how we address and treat other human
                                      > spirits that are standing side by side with us on our destiny
                                      paths.
                                      > Because if we do, we enter the sweet complexities of the Michael
                                      School
                                      > and the layers of soul and real beings that are bent on
                                      imprisoning us
                                      > in our deceptions. NICE!
                                      > > > Knowing the nature of some of the regions of the soul where icy
                                      > lies, deceptions and torture, war and human egotism have been fed
                                      to the
                                      > point of bloating and repressing common sense and supporting war
                                      > mongering traitors, false flag deceptions, and schools to promote
                                      such
                                      > attitudes puts us in the target line of MSM, Main Stream Media, the
                                      > military industrial arm of bio-weaponry, torture and fully
                                      destructive
                                      > concepts in education and medical science that promote and further
                                      the
                                      > For Profit deception of human frivolity in the face of mass
                                      murder. It
                                      > also is a juicy opportunity in The Fifth Epoch to gain schooling by
                                      > seeing, understanding and navigating the deceptions that are
                                      thrown at
                                      > us.
                                      > > > For even now, because of these pre-emptive wars, we drive our
                                      cars
                                      > on gas guzzling murder, we go to the grocery and the mall on
                                      companies
                                      > that are thriving on murder, thriving on our jobs being required
                                      and us
                                      > going to our job on the back of gasoline prices and world karma.
                                      Evil
                                      > Ahrimanic decisions that have placed us as guilty of failure to
                                      stop the
                                      > monsters from growing. No effort to create wholly different energy
                                      > efficient autos is seriously considered and boycott and refusal to
                                      > support idiots in office numbs the complacent intellect, but rather
                                      > super power, false flag, media driven murder of our fellow human
                                      beings
                                      > by our own high ranking officials in order to blame it on some
                                      group....
                                      > Jews or Arabs, it makes no difference!
                                      > > > The lie is deeply rooted in the tangle of human instincts and
                                      too
                                      > awful or honest for the chicken meely mouthed christian to wrestle
                                      with.
                                      > The deception and the fallacies find root in the darkened
                                      instinctual
                                      > double and bypasses our human thinking that is now able to see,
                                      with
                                      > Michael Intelligence into the motives of Ahriman or for the few
                                      who try
                                      > to see, also into the higher regions of the new Consciousness Soul
                                      > frontiers of human ethics and warm Christic heart striving. And
                                      far too
                                      > slowly, such films like Vendetta and imaginations trickle into the
                                      soul
                                      > as Entertainment instead of preliminary schooling with spiritual
                                      depth
                                      > and honesty behind them. We are in the midst of Fifth Epoch Michael
                                      > Schooling and discernment and we are wading through wonderful
                                      examples
                                      > of Ahrimanic and Luciferic imaginations as well as challenges to
                                      > transform these impulses to ever deeper roots of thinking within
                                      us. To
                                      > see the inverted Ahrimanic images and like an inverted image
                                      reverse it
                                      > > > and set it properly within our higher human striving against
                                      the
                                      > inverted image and the inverted logic that humanity wants to adapt
                                      as
                                      > normal tendencies.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                      > > > Don't pick lemons.
                                      > > > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                                      > > >
                                      > >
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                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                      > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone
                                      who
                                      > knows.
                                      > > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
                                      > >
                                      >



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                                    • Stephen Hale
                                      ... direct addressing of the situation. Instead, the pushing away the problems on the faults of Ahriman and his buddies, makes me feel angry and undone.
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Jun 6, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gloria <gloriabjork@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Steve, thank you for the clear response. I was missing such
                                        direct addressing of the situation. Instead, the pushing away the
                                        problems on the faults of Ahriman and his buddies, makes me feel
                                        angry and undone. English is a good language to communicate. But,
                                        often I feel that it is also a trap. For some reason, anthroposophy
                                        in German or in Swedish, even in French, feels less stressful. I
                                        just dropped another anthroposophic discussion online, because I
                                        couldn't take the contemption that seems to overwhelm the discourses
                                        people share. Possibly, anthroposophy is only possible to exist as a
                                        healthy discipline of thought and living, when applied to a
                                        socialist society in which so many of the agonies and horrors of the
                                        consumer's marketsystem won't survive. I may be biased, but in
                                        America, anthroposophy feels like a consumer's good, like going to
                                        IKEA or buying for the newest electric appliance. It feels very
                                        hollow. But, I am an outsider and a foreigner. -Gloria

                                        Well yes, if you received contemption it was probably on an
                                        americanist forum for anthroposophy in the spirit of america. But
                                        here's the important reminder: The buildings were destroyed not by
                                        any Jihadist war on America or Israel, but by clever soradists out
                                        of America itself, with their own agenda.

                                        I was on a forum of this kind myself, run by a phoney who called
                                        himself an anarchist of the likes of Emma Goldman. Yet, in the
                                        final analysis, it all boiled down to Emma Goldman; and as we all
                                        know, nobody listened. She actually had to defend herself after the
                                        assassination of William McKinley by saying: "so what if one fat
                                        white guy dies when thousands die every day suffering and starving
                                        to death".

                                        But here's the paradox: McKinley was a good guy; for the people all
                                        the way. One of the few; a Christian who suffered big time. Look
                                        it up. Goldman was looking more globally to the overall Illuminati
                                        itself, which Mckinley was not. No, his hand was forced by Teddy
                                        Rex.

                                        Steve
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