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How Angels fall

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  • holderlin66
    The Ubermensch, the Superman and the Posthuman The Ubermensch, the Superman and the Posthuman by Justice De Thezier
    Message 1 of 30 , May 25 8:06 AM
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      The Ubermensch, the Superman and the Posthuman

      The Ubermensch, the Superman and the Posthuman

      by Justice De Thezier

      January 24, 2006


      Klaus-Gerd Giesen: German anti-transhumanist

      In the most vicious yet thorough attack against transhumanism to date, Dr. Klaus-Gerd Giesen, a professor of political sciences at the University of Leipzig in Germany, wrote, among other things, in Transhumanism and Human Genetics (a widely-cited polemical article written in French for the Genetics Observatory, a project of the Centre for Bioethics of the Clinical Research Institute of Montreal):

      Encasing the figure of the nietzchean superman - which, by the way, is a constant reference for transhumanists - in an absurd biological materialism that would no doubt amuse the German philosopher, transhumanists push their nihilism to the point of speculating about the members of the privileged stratum of society eventually enhancing themselves and their offspring to a point where the human species, for many practical purposes, splits into two or more species that have little in common except a shared evolutionary history.


      Friedrich Nietzsche: German existentialist philosopher

      Since it is a criticism that I often hear that may or may not have some validity, I decided to re-familiarize myself with the exact definition of these terms in contention.

      According to Wikipedia, "in Thus spake Zarathustra, Nietzsche explains the steps through which man can become an Ubermensch ( the equivalent English translation would be `over-human' ):

      1. By his will to power, manifested destructively in the rejection of, and rebellion against, old ideals and moral codes;
      2. By his will to power, manifested creatively in overcoming nihilism (any philosophy that, rejecting the real world around us and physical existence along with it, results in an apathy toward life and a poisoning of the human soul) and re-evaluating old ideals or creating new ones.
      3. By a continual process of self-overcoming [mastery of one's existential needs and desires].

      "The most common misconception about the Ubermensch is that it is equivalent to the ideals of Nazism, and that it is related or equal to the concept of Herrenvolk ("master race"). The concept of racial supremacy or antisemitism is absent in Nietzsche. It is widely believed that Nietzsche's sister, Elisabeth Forster-Nietzsche, contributed greatly to this misconception by deliberately misrepresenting his work, and the Nazis themselves reinterpreted and incorporated hodgepodge elements of many philosophical and religious texts, including Nietzsche's.

      The translation of Ubermensch as "superman" may compound the misconception. Uber can have a variety of meanings, as in Uberwindung ("overcoming"), uberstehen/durchstehen ("come through"/"get over"), ubersetzen ("translate"/"take across"). Some scholars therefore prefer the translation as Overman, since the point of the Ubermensch is that man needs to overcome himself.

      The German adverb "ubermenschlich" is common and used in contexts such as "mit ubermenschlichen Kraften gelang es ihm…": "with a force no human being is capable of he managed to…" or "with superhuman force…", the connotation is that of leaving the human sphere. Parallel constructions can be found in ubernaturlich ("no longer natural", "transcendental"), uberirdisch ("heavenly", literally "unearthly"). "Superman" lacks the German connotation of a sphere beyond human knowledge and power. In addition, Mensch is less specifically male than the English man, closer at times to the English human. Mensch is to be understood as a neuter form of a noun.

      Nietzsche's writings are spiritual and philosophical in character, and do not state that the central ideas are biological, psychological, sociological, or sociobiological. His ideas have no firm connection to the claim of superiority of any particular race or ethnicity, and thus they are not racist in themselves."


      Brandon Routh as Superman

      On the other hand, a Superman, or more precisely,

      a superhuman is an entity with intelligence or abilities exceeding normal human standards. Superhuman can mean an "improved" human, for example, by genetic modification, or as what humans might evolve into, in the distant future. Occasionally, it could mean a "normal" human with unusual abilities, such as psychic abilities or exceptional proficiency at something. Superhuman can also mean something that isn't human, but considered to be "superior" to humans in some ways. A robot that easily passed the Turing test, and could do some things humans can't, could be considered superhuman. A very intelligent or strong alien could be considered superhuman. The concept of the superhuman is quite popular in science fiction, where superhumans are often mutants or genetically engineered.


      Posthuman

      And finally, according to the Transhumanist FAQ, a Posthuman is a hypothetical future being,

      "whose basic capacities so radically exceed those of present humans as to be no longer human by our current standards ... Posthumans could be artificial intelligences, or they could be uploaded consciousnesses, or they could be the result of making many smaller but cumulatively profound augmentations to a biological human. The latter alternative would probably require either the redesign of the human organism using advanced nanotechnology or its radical enhancement using some combination of technologies such as genetic engineering, psychopharmacology, anti-aging therapies, neural interfaces, advanced information management tools, memory enhancing drugs, wearable computers, and cognitive techniques."

      In conclusion, whether or not Nietzche would have approved of the transhumanist goal of becoming a Posthuman is open to debate. However, there can no doubt that, if Nietzche was alive today, he would be deeply offended by the attempt of some transhumanists to equate his concept of the Ubermensch with their concept of the Posthuman. Although a small minority of transhumanists will strongly disagree due to confirmation bias, since Nietzche's Ubermensch is obviously not related to the concept of the Superman of science-fiction nor the posthuman of transhumanist speculation, the Ubermensch should never be a reference for well-informed transhumanists or anti-transhumanists.


      Justice De Thezier is a social entrepreneur and creative professional, currently pursuing a degree in political sciences at the University of Quebec in Montreal, specializing in science, technology and society. In 2003, he founded the Quebec Transhumanist Association, a chapter of the WTA in Montreal, Canada. De Thezier contributes to the collaborative blog Cyborg Democracy

    • holderlin66
      R.S. Angel s Work in the Astral body The outcome in the evolution of humanity would unquestionably be threefold. Firstly, something would be engendered in
      Message 2 of 30 , May 25 8:46 AM
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        R.S.  Angel's Work in the Astral body

        ""The outcome in the evolution of humanity would unquestionably be
        threefold. Firstly, something would be engendered in the sleeping human
        bodies -- while the Ego and astral body were not within them -- and man
        would meet with it on waking in the morning ... but then it would become
        instinct instead of conscious spiritual activity and therefore baleful.
        It is so indeed: certain instinctive knowledge that will arise in human
        nature, instinctive knowledge connected with the mystery of birth and
        conception, with sexual life as a whole, threatens to become baleful if
        the danger of which I have spoken takes effect. Certain Angels would
        then themselves undergo a change -- a change of which I cannot speak........"

        Nietzsche below and what happens if the individual Angels cannot sustain the fall of intelligence in the human being? What happens when we consider the details of this biological fall and internal crisis in the human being if our Angels must submerge themselves into our human instincts? You might think it is sweet to be an Anthro or strive for Michael Intelligence as if your life depended on it.  You might imagine, floating in all the abstract stew of university nonsense that all this Angel abstraction is poppycock.  But you would probably not want to know would you? You probably don't want to think through the logic of what would happen if our Angels had to fall back from the astral into the etheric.  Well, the swimmer in the swirling seas of Michael and human intelligence, struggles daily to keep their head above water, as Carol has recently posted about how high the water level is for drowning humanity and submerging our Angels into our human instincts.

        Nietzsche was the first to be submerged, Columbine is another aspect of overblown superhuman Ubermensch corruption of the intellect and reason that poor Nietzsche fell into. But of course you look upon the study of GOD IS DEAD, Nietzsche as some little faulty engine in the mind that has become highly popular and trendy in culture. God is Dead and only Spiritual Science has a grasp of the diagnosis of what if the Angel is forced to submerge itself into the etheric? Steiner posed the question and as we need to expect from Anthros, they shy away from following out the current 2007 recheck on the precise and prescient insights of Dr. Steiner.

        : foreknowledge of events: a : divine omniscience b : human anticipation of the course of events : FORESIGHT
        - pre·scient /-sh(E-)&nt, -s(E-)&nt/ adjective
        - pre·scient·ly adverb

        Baleful is another word Steiner used for how we in the Fifth Epoch, connected to the Third Epoch of Egypt and how Egypt was once for humanity an Astral world bonanza....how we in the Fifth Epoch now face new challenges in the drop of the Angelic Astral realm into the seething unconscious of human instincts, instead of the safety of philosophic and intuitive astral and thinking experiences that REACH UPWARDS TO OUR ANGELS....but know, we have presented here how in business the Pyramid scheme has fallen.  We have presented here how in the auto industry and technology the KA has fallen into the Ka.  We have presented here how NASA and the boats to the stars that the Egyptians used to travel out the light point created at the Top of the pyramid, was their tunnel of light out into the astral star world, has become a fallen replication and materialization... and of course there is the common and misleading film, "National Treasure" which all but shouts how the Egyptian Third epoch has nested down into the roots of our own Fifth Epoch.  But it gets worse, it get's much worse if you even have the faintest idea of baleful and medicine, plagues, biological weaponry, nano technology and hormone enhanced steroids that thrust and bloat the etheric forces into the physical, and reject, steroids rejects the refined thinking forces that approach the Angelic Kingdom with our struggle with thinking and intuition.

         So you think study, thinking and working spiritually daily into the deepening of thought and ideas and defending the thought world of the soul is un-important and abstract? You need to slap yourself awake my friend, slap yourself awake and like Jacob reach up and grab the slender garment of your Angel and hold onto the intuition and thinking forces that lift the soul.  For the submerging is already here and more baleful and dangerous than any of us ever considered, when we toyingly and playfully considered little Steiner's quiet efforts of cognition into the Angels Work in the Astral Body of Man.  These are serious, serious problems of the Fifth Epoch and they demand that the soul reach up out of it's slumber and stir itself, or force the Angels to submerge themselves into the horrific instincts bloating humanity at present.  Horrific, clever, cunning, science instincts that will guide us straight into .......... fill in the blank with your own idea if you are so afraid to THINK.

      • holderlin66
        [Angels going up and down ladder while Jacob sleeps] So let us examine the nature of wrestling with Thinking and Intuition in relation to the substance that
        Message 3 of 30 , May 25 1:55 PM
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          Angels going up and down ladder while Jacob sleepsSo let us examine the nature of wrestling with Thinking and Intuition in relation to the substance that the "Angelic Doctor" placed before us.  Firstly Steiner placed before us the POF. But along with the POF, as the starter recipe, thinking is called upon to approach and come to terms with thinking through Michael Intelligence itself.  Michael Intelligence, the full orchestration and Intelligence of the Heavens and the Cosmos that the Angels live with and that in translated chunks of inexplicable wisdom, vast patches of higher human lore, keys to the Michael realm of thought and keys to the Angelic realm, have come over all the way from the ancient Egyptian period and have arrived here in the Goethean Fifth Epoch, at the dawn of the age of light.  The spiral-helix continues down into the very roots of the human system.  The Foundation Stone offers the immense spiral staircase, and Jacob's ladder, but Thinking and Intuition and gaining strength and confidence in the pivot point where humanity can begin to reawaken cosmic intelligence and cosmic logic in the human heart and mind is a starting point.

          Arriving here, the human being is called upon to wrestle with his Angel, his higher being and develop higher intuitive thinking that would prevent humanity from sinking and submerging the Angelic lore into the cunning and deeply malicious core of human instincts. For the Angel to Fall, is to follow the sinking human Michael Intelligence down into the slumbering forces of human instincts and miss the higher Intuitive challenge for humanity to wrestle itself upwards to enjoy the communion and rich exploration of the mighty world of Cosmic Intelligence that the Angels are suspended with, sustained with and that has now been dropped into the Hearts and Heads of humans.... to be ripped and thrust below Common Sense and human goodness into the seething forces of human will and Ahrimanic intelligence which is waiting for just such a forsaking by the human kingdom to begin devouring vast chunks of forsaken cosmic intelligence.  For the Ahrimanic Beings certainly know what to do with this fallen cosmic intelligence, and the Ahrimanic kingdom cares nothing for human morality, compassion and living heroic striving.

          Angels going up and down ladder while Jacob sleeps


          Next we might discuss the impetus and the instinctive ploy to discover SuperHeros,  SpiderMan, or other genetic misfits like X-Men "Last Stand".... and fantasy and other forces that have begun to seek the slumbering human etheric being, as instincts and these mighty forces are latent in the crippled and corrupt thinking forces of science and military labs and universities everywhere. Nothing, nothing like the associations and ideas that need to be made between the Angels Work in the Astral Body of Man and the general chaotic and twisted cunning that now has begun a terrible, terrible process in human culture-  It drives down into the medical malpractice and Pharmo evil of destroying and altering our children, because the cohesion and forces of the healthy astral and nervous system are early compromised.  Can we face these facts as Steiner offered them in The Angels Work in the Astral Body of Man?  It is another challenge Dr. Steiner offered up to human goodness and wisdom and another challenge that the Michael Impulse of Reason and thinking have left bungled and tangled without an explanation or linking to how these horrific and baleful unconscious forces must be re-directed upwards so that we wrestle, through and with and in our thinking, with intuition and our deepened research into all that Spiritual Science translated into human thought from the cosmic and Angelic worlds.

          Angels going up and down ladder while Jacob sleeps

        • carol
          I began my day by reading the following lecture, it was within a stack of printed lectures, which I took hold of, it was attached to and concealed by another
          Message 4 of 30 , May 25 6:05 PM
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            I began my day  by reading the following lecture,  it was within a stack of printed lectures, which I took hold of, it was attached to and concealed by another one….  These days, I generally encounter a certain resistance when I try to read lectures,  but with this one,  I `wized' through it. It was just what I needed to read,  considering what weather modification has been doing to my orientation skills,  and among other things,  interfering with my conscious morning experience of connecting with my personal angeloi.

             

            I recall having read this lecture,  perhaps more than once,  but this morning,  the thought images conveyed by the pages resounded within my spirit with such clarity.  These were in no way theories,  they reflected humankind in Spring, 2007.

             

            I encourage anyone who has not recently read it,  to pick it up.  It's not really long or  intensive reading.

             

            Entry of the Michael Forces. From: Karmic Relationships, Esoteric Studies III

             

            http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/KRIII9_index.html

             

             

            …."The destiny of anthroposophists, — the destiny that works itself out between anthroposophists and non-anthroposophists, — casts its waves even into the worlds of the Angeloi. It leads to a parting of the Spirits, even in the world of the Angeloi. The Angel who accompanies the anthroposophist to his next incarnations learns to find his way still more deeply into the spiritual kingdoms than he could do before, while the Angel who belongs to the other man — to the one who cannot enter, — descends. It is in the destiny of the Angeloi that we first perceive how this great separation is taking place. To this, my dear friends, I would now direct your hearts. It is happening now, that the comparatively single and uniform kingdom of the Angeloi is being turned into a twofold kingdom of Angeloi , a kingdom of Angeloi with an upward tendency into the higher worlds, and with a downward tendency into lower worlds.

             

            While the Michael community is being formed here upon earth, we can behold above it the ascending and the descending Angeloi. Looking more deeply into the world to-day, one can perpetually observe these streams, which are such as to stir the heart to its foundations."…..  (Indeed)

             

            From my vantage point,  I would like to see mature Anthros get along,  work together in a constructive and tolerant manner, really understand the meaning of `complexity' in the field of spirit and soul, understand how certain spiritual truths may be known unconsciously but may be awaiting the formation of complementary concepts before being able to reach the surface, begin to comprehend why it is  important it is to work together, through soul sympathy etc.

             

            Within this lecture,  Rudolf Steiner described the distinct characteristics for 2 main groups who approach Anthroposophy,  though both equally through a clear,  karmic predisposition. I don't believe that there should exist a need to `debate' which one has more of a right to exists considering the complexity and seriousness of the main 'problem' shared by both…

             

            "Now I have told you that those who come into the anthroposophical life fall into two main groups. There are the ones who still carry into it a  knowledge from the old heathen times, and have had little experience of that Christian development which took its course during the Kali Yuga. They have gone on evolving out of the old Pagan sources, and they now grow into the Christianity which is to be a cosmic Christianity once more. They are souls with a Pagan predestination, who in reality are only now growing into Christianity. The others are souls who are a little weary of Paganism, though they do not confess this to themselves. From the outset they grow into the Anthroposophical Movement on account of its Christian character, but they do not enter so deeply into the anthroposophical Cosmology, the anthroposophical Anthropology, and so forth. They enter, rather, into the more abstractly religious side. These two groups are clearly to be distinguished.

             

            Now for the group of a more Pagan predestination it is particularly necessary to take hold of the sustaining forces of Anthroposophy with full intensity of inner life. For this group, it is most necessary to avoid all side-tracks and other considerations, and steer straight forward in the direction of the anthroposophical sustaining forces.

             

            We can only grasp these things when we receive them in our hearts; but they must enter into the hearts of anthroposophists. For only then will a real living-together within the Anthroposophical Society be possible, on a true anthroposophical foundation. When the more Pagan kind of souls, if I may call them so, bring forth their forces, which are in many cases already there in this incarnation deep within their souls, though they will often only come forth with difficulty, — when as I say they do bring forth the forces that are there in them, then there will spread over the whole Anthroposophical Society an atmosphere of steady and courageous progress in the good sense of Michael."

             

            Carol.

             

             

             

             

            In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66" <holderlin66@...> wrote:

            >
            >
            > [Angels going up and down ladder while Jacob sleeps] So let us examine
            > the nature of wrestling with Thinking and Intuition in relation to the
            > substance that the "Angelic Doctor" placed before us. Firstly Steiner
            > placed before us the POF. But along with the POF, as the starter recipe,
            > thinking is called upon to approach and come to terms with thinking
            > through Michael Intelligence itself. Michael Intelligence, the full
            > orchestration and Intelligence of the Heavens and the Cosmos that the
            > Angels live with and that in translated chunks of inexplicable wisdom,
            > vast patches of higher human lore, keys to the Michael realm of thought
            > and keys to the Angelic realm, have come over all the way from the
            > ancient Egyptian period and have arrived here in the Goethean Fifth
            > Epoch, at the dawn of the age of light. The spiral-helix continues down
            > into the very roots of the human system. The Foundation Stone offers
            > the immense spiral staircase, and Jacob's ladder, but Thinking and
            > Intuition and gaining strength and confidence in the pivot point where
            > humanity can begin to reawaken cosmic intelligence and cosmic logic in
            > the human heart and mind is a starting point.
            >
            > Arriving here, the human being is called upon to wrestle with his Angel,
            > his higher being and develop higher intuitive thinking that would
            > prevent humanity from sinking and submerging the Angelic lore into the
            > cunning and deeply malicious core of human instincts. For the Angel to
            > Fall, is to follow the sinking human Michael Intelligence down into the
            > slumbering forces of human instincts and miss the higher Intuitive
            > challenge for humanity to wrestle itself upwards to enjoy the communion
            > and rich exploration of the mighty world of Cosmic Intelligence that the
            > Angels are suspended with, sustained with and that has now been dropped
            > into the Hearts and Heads of humans.... to be ripped and thrust below
            > Common Sense and human goodness into the seething forces of human will
            > and Ahrimanic intelligence which is waiting for just such a forsaking by
            > the human kingdom to begin devouring vast chunks of forsaken cosmic
            > intelligence. For the Ahrimanic Beings certainly know what to do with
            > this fallen cosmic intelligence, and the Ahrimanic kingdom cares nothing
            > for human morality, compassion and living heroic striving.
            >
            > [Angels going up and down ladder while Jacob sleeps]
            >
            >
            > Next we might discuss the impetus and the instinctive ploy to discover
            > SuperHeros, SpiderMan, or other genetic misfits like X-Men "Last
            > Stand".... and fantasy and other forces that have begun to seek the
            > slumbering human etheric being, as instincts and these mighty forces are
            > latent in the crippled and corrupt thinking forces of science and
            > military labs and universities everywhere. Nothing, nothing like the
            > associations and ideas that need to be made between the Angels Work in
            > the Astral Body of Man and the general chaotic and twisted cunning that
            > now has begun a terrible, terrible process in human culture- It drives
            > down into the medical malpractice and Pharmo evil of destroying and
            > altering our children, because the cohesion and forces of the healthy
            > astral and nervous system are early compromised. Can we face these
            > facts as Steiner offered them in The Angels Work in the Astral Body of
            > Man? It is another challenge Dr. Steiner offered up to human goodness
            > and wisdom and another challenge that the Michael Impulse of Reason and
            > thinking have left bungled and tangled without an explanation or linking
            > to how these horrific and baleful unconscious forces must be re-directed
            > upwards so that we wrestle, through and with and in our thinking, with
            > intuition and our deepened research into all that Spiritual Science
            > translated into human thought from the cosmic and Angelic worlds.
            >
            > [Angels going up and down ladder while Jacob sleeps]
            >

          • Stephen Hale
            It is widely believed that Nietzsche s sister, Elisabeth Forster- Nietzsche, contributed greatly to this misconception by deliberately misrepresenting his
            Message 5 of 30 , May 25 7:12 PM
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              "It is widely believed that Nietzsche's sister, Elisabeth Forster-
              Nietzsche, contributed greatly to this misconception by deliberately
              misrepresenting his work, and the Nazis themselves reinterpreted and
              incorporated hodgepodge elements of many philosophical and religious
              texts, including Nietzsche's."

              This is quite true, as she became involved with a man who wanted to
              extend the work of Adam Weishaupt. This man was Bernhard Forster,
              who was to the last third of the nineteenth century, what Weishaupt
              was to the last third of the eighteenth century. Thus, an
              Illuminati, seeking to exploit three-folding principles for the
              western economic lead that truly exists today! What's interesting
              about Forster, and Nietzsche's sister, is that they together were
              interested in creating a community in South America, called "Nueva
              Germanica", wherein the ideals of german supreme being could be
              realized amongst the natives. Although it failed to come to
              fruition, due to Forster's sudden suicide in 1889, its concept
              became the basis for the underground railroad that led the most
              high, and sinister leaders of national socialism, to safety in South
              America after WWII.

              When Bernhard Forster died, Elizabeth Nietzsche was left holding the
              bags of a cause that would require her to take control of her
              brother's literary estate for purposes that would eventually give a
              certain philosophical and even mystical justification to the will
              and power of the Third Reich. She was a keen supporter of Adolf
              Hitler, and her brother saw these trends even 45 years before Hitler
              rose to become Chancellor of Germany.

              Adolf Hitler was deemed by certain occultists to be the so-
              called "modern zarathustra", who would resurrect the German national
              spirit to supremacy after the demoralizing strictures of Wilson's
              peace talks of 1919, which produced the Treaty of Versailles, which
              redeemed the other nations involved in WWI, and severely penalized
              Germany. That is why the United States entered WWI in 1917, its
              last year; to justify becoming the financier of the debtor nations
              needing the assistance of the big banking industry that America now
              held claim to. All except for Germany, which was punished for
              supposedly causing and extending the war throughout three plus years
              of basically trench-war fighting. Germany was made to suffer for
              many years after the end of WWI. Now, if reconstruction had been
              allowed for Germany as well, we would be looking at a different
              history today. A history wherein a greater measure of cooperation
              and mutual support existed.

              But Germany was severely punished after the end of World War I, and
              we can thank Woodrow Wilson for that, and his fourteen points for
              peace, which included all concerned, except Germany. So, go figure
              the next equation in the matter. Rudolf Steiner was the true Modern
              Zarathustra, and he saw into all of this, and beyond.

              Steve
            • carol
              The French internet weather service for the Montreal area displayed this message for this evening. 24°C Ciel voilé A veiled sky... In fact, I ve begun to
              Message 6 of 30 , May 25 8:44 PM
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                The French internet weather service for the Montreal area displayed this message for this evening.

                 

                24°C

                Ciel voilé

                 

                A veiled sky...

                 

                In fact, I've begun to observe that it's become a rare occurence that people in my vacinity are allowed the 'privelege' of gazing directly into the blue of the sky or a clear starry night sky.

                 

                C.


                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > I began my day by reading the following lecture, it was within a stack
                > of printed lectures, which I took hold of, it was attached to and
                > concealed by another one…. These days, I generally encounter a
                > certain resistance when I try to read lectures, but with this one, I
                > `wized' through it. It was just what I needed to read,
                > considering what weather modification has been doing to my orientation
                > skills, and among other things, interfering with my conscious morning
                > experience of connecting with my personal angeloi.
                >
                >
                >
                > I recall having read this lecture, perhaps more than once, but this
                > morning, the thought images conveyed by the pages resounded within my
                > spirit with such clarity. These were in no way theories, they
                > reflected humankind in Spring, 2007.
                >
                >
                >
                > I encourage anyone who has not recently read it, to pick it up.
                > It's not really long or intensive reading.
                >
                >
                >
                > Entry of the Michael Forces. From: Karmic Relationships, Esoteric
                > Studies III
                >
                >
                >
                > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/KRIII9_index.html
                > <http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/KRIII9_index.html>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > …."The destiny of anthroposophists, — the destiny that works
                > itself out between anthroposophists and non-anthroposophists, —
                > casts its waves even into the worlds of the Angeloi. It leads to a
                > parting of the Spirits, even in the world of the Angeloi. The Angel who
                > accompanies the anthroposophist to his next incarnations learns to find
                > his way still more deeply into the spiritual kingdoms than he could do
                > before, while the Angel who belongs to the other man — to the one
                > who cannot enter, — descends. It is in the destiny of the Angeloi
                > that we first perceive how this great separation is taking place. To
                > this, my dear friends, I would now direct your hearts. It is happening
                > now, that the comparatively single and uniform kingdom of the Angeloi is
                > being turned into a twofold kingdom of Angeloi, a kingdom of Angeloi
                > with an upward tendency into the higher worlds, and with a downward
                > tendency into lower worlds.
                >
                >
                >
                > While the Michael community is being formed here upon earth, we can
                > behold above it the ascending and the descending Angeloi. Looking more
                > deeply into the world to-day, one can perpetually observe these streams,
                > which are such as to stir the heart to its foundations."…..
                > (Indeed)
                >
                >
                >
                > From my vantage point, I would like to see mature Anthros get along,
                > work together in a constructive and tolerant manner, really understand
                > the meaning of `complexity' in the field of spirit and soul,
                > understand how certain spiritual truths may be known unconsciously but
                > may be awaiting the formation of complementary concepts before being
                > able to reach the surface, begin to comprehend why it is important it
                > is to work together, through soul sympathy etc.
                >
                >
                >
                > Within this lecture, Rudolf Steiner described the distinct
                > characteristics for 2 main groups who approach Anthroposophy, though
                > both equally through a clear, karmic predisposition. I don't
                > believe that there should exist a need to `debate' which one has
                > more of a right to exists considering the complexity and seriousness of
                > the main 'problem' shared by both…
                >
                >
                >
                > "Now I have told you that those who come into the anthroposophical
                > life fall into two main groups. There are the ones who still carry into
                > it a knowledge from the old heathen times, and have had little
                > experience of that Christian development which took its course during
                > the Kali Yuga. They have gone on evolving out of the old Pagan sources,
                > and they now grow into the Christianity which is to be a cosmic
                > Christianity once more. They are souls with a Pagan predestination, who
                > in reality are only now growing into Christianity. The others are souls
                > who are a little weary of Paganism, though they do not confess this to
                > themselves. From the outset they grow into the Anthroposophical Movement
                > on account of its Christian character, but they do not enter so deeply
                > into the anthroposophical Cosmology, the anthroposophical Anthropology,
                > and so forth. They enter, rather, into the more abstractly religious
                > side. These two groups are clearly to be distinguished.
                >
                >
                >
                > Now for the group of a more Pagan predestination it is particularly
                > necessary to take hold of the sustaining forces of Anthroposophy with
                > full intensity of inner life. For this group, it is most necessary to
                > avoid all side-tracks and other considerations, and steer straight
                > forward in the direction of the anthroposophical sustaining forces.
                >
                >
                >
                > We can only grasp these things when we receive them in our hearts; but
                > they must enter into the hearts of anthroposophists. For only then will
                > a real living-together within the Anthroposophical Society be possible,
                > on a true anthroposophical foundation. When the more Pagan kind of
                > souls, if I may call them so, bring forth their forces, which are in
                > many cases already there in this incarnation deep within their souls,
                > though they will often only come forth with difficulty, — when as I
                > say they do bring forth the forces that are there in them, then there
                > will spread over the whole Anthroposophical Society an atmosphere of
                > steady and courageous progress in the good sense of Michael."
                >
                >
                >
                > Carol.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66" holderlin66@ wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > [Angels going up and down ladder while Jacob sleeps] So let us examine
                > > the nature of wrestling with Thinking and Intuition in relation to the
                > > substance that the "Angelic Doctor" placed before us. Firstly Steiner
                > > placed before us the POF. But along with the POF, as the starter
                > recipe,
                > > thinking is called upon to approach and come to terms with thinking
                > > through Michael Intelligence itself. Michael Intelligence, the full
                > > orchestration and Intelligence of the Heavens and the Cosmos that the
                > > Angels live with and that in translated chunks of inexplicable wisdom,
                > > vast patches of higher human lore, keys to the Michael realm of
                > thought
                > > and keys to the Angelic realm, have come over all the way from the
                > > ancient Egyptian period and have arrived here in the Goethean Fifth
                > > Epoch, at the dawn of the age of light. The spiral-helix continues
                > down
                > > into the very roots of the human system. The Foundation Stone offers
                > > the immense spiral staircase, and Jacob's ladder, but Thinking and
                > > Intuition and gaining strength and confidence in the pivot point where
                > > humanity can begin to reawaken cosmic intelligence and cosmic logic in
                > > the human heart and mind is a starting point.
                > >
                > > Arriving here, the human being is called upon to wrestle with his
                > Angel,
                > > his higher being and develop higher intuitive thinking that would
                > > prevent humanity from sinking and submerging the Angelic lore into the
                > > cunning and deeply malicious core of human instincts. For the Angel to
                > > Fall, is to follow the sinking human Michael Intelligence down into
                > the
                > > slumbering forces of human instincts and miss the higher Intuitive
                > > challenge for humanity to wrestle itself upwards to enjoy the
                > communion
                > > and rich exploration of the mighty world of Cosmic Intelligence that
                > the
                > > Angels are suspended with, sustained with and that has now been
                > dropped
                > > into the Hearts and Heads of humans.... to be ripped and thrust below
                > > Common Sense and human goodness into the seething forces of human will
                > > and Ahrimanic intelligence which is waiting for just such a forsaking
                > by
                > > the human kingdom to begin devouring vast chunks of forsaken cosmic
                > > intelligence. For the Ahrimanic Beings certainly know what to do with
                > > this fallen cosmic intelligence, and the Ahrimanic kingdom cares
                > nothing
                > > for human morality, compassion and living heroic striving.
                > >
                > > [Angels going up and down ladder while Jacob sleeps]
                > >
                > >
                > > Next we might discuss the impetus and the instinctive ploy to discover
                > > SuperHeros, SpiderMan, or other genetic misfits like X-Men "Last
                > > Stand".... and fantasy and other forces that have begun to seek the
                > > slumbering human etheric being, as instincts and these mighty forces
                > are
                > > latent in the crippled and corrupt thinking forces of science and
                > > military labs and universities everywhere. Nothing, nothing like the
                > > associations and ideas that need to be made between the Angels Work in
                > > the Astral Body of Man and the general chaotic and twisted cunning
                > that
                > > now has begun a terrible, terrible process in human culture- It drives
                > > down into the medical malpractice and Pharmo evil of destroying and
                > > altering our children, because the cohesion and forces of the healthy
                > > astral and nervous system are early compromised. Can we face these
                > > facts as Steiner offered them in The Angels Work in the Astral Body of
                > > Man? It is another challenge Dr. Steiner offered up to human goodness
                > > and wisdom and another challenge that the Michael Impulse of Reason
                > and
                > > thinking have left bungled and tangled without an explanation or
                > linking
                > > to how these horrific and baleful unconscious forces must be
                > re-directed
                > > upwards so that we wrestle, through and with and in our thinking, with
                > > intuition and our deepened research into all that Spiritual Science
                > > translated into human thought from the cosmic and Angelic worlds.
                > >
                > > [Angels going up and down ladder while Jacob sleeps]
                > >
                >

              • holderlin66
                Steiner studies of: --| THE WORK OF THE ANGELS IN MAN S ASTRAL BODY |----- From the brief outline I have given in Occult Science about the co-operation that
                Message 7 of 30 , May 26 10:38 AM
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                  Steiner studies of:

                  --| THE WORK OF THE ANGELS IN MAN'S ASTRAL BODY |-----

                  "From the brief outline I have given in Occult Science about the
                  co-operation that took place between particular Beings of the
                  Hierarchies in order that man should come into existence...What are the
                  Angels doing in our astral body?...Through the Angels, the Spirits of
                  Form are already now shaping these pictures in our astral body. The
                  Angels form pictures in man's astral body...it is clear that they have a
                  very definite plan for the future configuration of social life on earth;
                  their aim is to engender in the astral bodies of men such pictures as
                  will bring about definite conditions in the social life of the future...
                  in forming these pictures the Angels work on a definite principle,
                  namely, that in the future no human being is to find peace in the
                  enjoyment of happiness if others beside him are unhappy. An impulse of
                  Brotherhood in the absolute sense, unification of the human race in
                  Brotherhood rightly understood -- this is to be the governing principle
                  of the social conditions in physical existence.
                  That is the one principle in accordance with which the Angels form the
                  pictures in man's astral body.

                  But there is a second impulse in the work of the Angels. The Angels have
                  certain objectives in view, not only in connection with the outer social
                  life but also with man's life of soul. Through the pictures they
                  inculcate into the astral body their aim is that in future time every
                  human being shall see in each and all of his fellow-men a hidden
                  divinity.

                  Quite clearly, then, according to the intention underlying the work of
                  the Angels, things are to be very different in future. Neither in theory
                  nor in practice shall we look only at man's physical qualities,
                  regarding him as a more highly developed animal, but we must confront
                  every human being with the full realisation that in him something is
                  revealing itself from the divine foundations of the world, revealing
                  itself through flesh and blood. To conceive man as a picture revealed
                  from the spiritual world, to conceive this with all the earnestness, all
                  the strength and all the insight at our command -- this is the impulse
                  laid by the Angels into the pictures...

                  Once this is fulfilled, there will be a very definite consequence. The
                  basis of all free religious feeling that will unfold in humanity in the
                  future will be the acknowledgment, not merely in theory but in actual
                  practice, that every human being is made in the likeness of the Godhead.
                  When that time comes there will be no need for any religious coercion;
                  for then every meeting between one man and another will of itself be in
                  the nature of a religious rite, a sacrament, and nobody will need a
                  special Church with institutions on the physical plane to sustain the
                  religious life. If the Church understands itself truly, its one aim must
                  be to render itself unnecessary on the physical plane, as the whole of
                  life becomes the expression of the supersensible.

                  The bestowal on man of complete freedom in the religious life -- this underlies the impulses, at least, of the work of the Angels. And there is a third objective: To make it possible for men to reach the
                  Spirit through thinking, to cross the abyss and through thinking to
                  experience the reality of the Spirit.

                  Spiritual Science for the spirit, freedom of religious life for the
                  soul, brotherhood for the bodily life -- this resounds like cosmic music
                  through the work wrought by the Angels in the astral bodies of men.
                  All that is necessary is to raise our consciousness to a different level
                  and we shall feel ourselves transported to this wonderful site of the
                  work done by the Angels in the human astral body...

                  After all this, you will understand me when I point out that this epoch
                  of the Spiritual Soul is heading towards the definite event, and that --
                  just because it is the Spiritual Soul that is involved -- it will depend
                  upon men themselves how this event takes effect in the evolution of
                  humanity. It may come a century earlier or a century later, but it is
                  bound to form part of the evolutionary process. It can be characterised
                  by saying: Purely through the Spiritual Soul, purely through their
                  conscious thinking, men must reach the point of actually perceiving what
                  the Angels are doing to prepare the future of humanity. The teachings of
                  Spiritual Science in this domain must become practical wisdom in the
                  life of humanity -- practical, because men can be convinced that it
                  belongs to their own wisdom to recognise the aims of the Angels...

                  But the progress of the human race towards freedom has already gone so
                  far that it depends upon man himself whether he will sleep through this
                  event or face it with fully wideawake consciousness. What would this
                  entail? To face this event with wideawake consciousness would entail the
                  study of Spiritual Science, which is possible to-day. Indeed nothing
                  else is really necessary. The practice of meditations of various kinds
                  and attention to the guidance given in the book Knowledge of the Higher
                  Worlds and its Attainment, will be an additional help. But the essential
                  step has already been taken when Spiritual Science is studied and really
                  consciously understood. Spiritual Science can be studied to-day without
                  developing clairvoyance faculties. Everyone on do so, who does not bar
                  his own way with his prejudices. And if people study Spiritual Science
                  more and more thoroughly, if they assimilate its concepts and ideas,
                  their consciousness will become so alert that instead of sleeping
                  through certain events, they will be fully aware of them.

                  These events can be characterised in greater detail, for to know what
                  the Angel is doing is only the preparatory stage. The essential point is
                  that at a definite time -- depending, as I have said, upon the attitude
                  men themselves adopt it will be earlier or later or at worst not at all
                  -- a threefold truth will be revealed to mankind by the Angels...

                  But let it be emphasised that this impending event confronts the will of
                  man. Many things that should lead to conscious awareness of this event
                  may be and indeed are being left undone.

                  But as you know, there are other beings working in world-evolution,
                  beings who are interested in deflecting man from his proper course:
                  these are the Ahrimanic and the Luciferic beings. What I have just said
                  belongs to the divinely-willed evolution of mankind. If man were to
                  follow the dictates of his own proper nature, he could not very well
                  fail to perceive what the Angel is unfolding in his astral body; but the
                  aim of the Luciferic beings is to tear men away from insight into the
                  work of the Angels. And they set about doing this by curbing man's free
                  will. They try to cloud his understanding of the exercise of his free
                  will. True, they desire to make him good -- for from the aspect of which
                  I am now speaking, Lucifer desires that there shall be goodness,
                  spirituality, in man -- but automatic goodness, automatic spirituality
                  -- without free will. Lucifer desires that man shall be led
                  automatically, in accordance with perfectly good principles, to
                  clairvoyance -- but he wants to deprive him of his free will, to remove
                  from him the possibility of evil-doing. Lucifer wants to make man into a
                  being who, it is true, acts out of the spirit, but acts as a reflection,
                  as an automaton, without free will.

                  This is connected with certain specific secrets of evolution. As you
                  know, the Luciferic beings have remained stationary at other stages of
                  evolution and they introduce an element that is foreign to the normal
                  evolutionary process. They are deeply interested in so seizing hold of
                  man that he does not unfold free will, because they themselves have not
                  acquired free will. Free will can be acquired only on the Earth but the
                  Luciferic beings want to have nothing to do with the Earth; they want
                  only Saturn-, Sun-, Moon-evolution, and to remain at those stages. In a
                  sense they hate the free will of man. Their manner of acting is highly
                  spiritual, but it is automatic -- that is a point of great significance
                  -- and they want to lift man to their own spiritual heights, to make him
                  an automaton -- a spiritual, but an automatically spiritual, being.
                  Thereby on the one side the danger would arise that prematurely, before
                  his Spiritual Soul is in full function, man would become a being whose
                  actions are those of a spiritual puppet and he would sleep through the
                  impending revelation.

                  But the Ahrimanic beings too are working to obscure this revelation.
                  They are not at pains to make man particularly spiritual, but rather to
                  kill out in him the consciousness of his own spirituality. They
                  endeavour to instill into him the conviction that he is nothing but a
                  completely developed animal. Ahriman is in truth the teacher par
                  excellence of materialistic Darwinism. He is also the great teacher of
                  all those technical and practical pursuits in Earth-evolution where
                  there is refusal to acknowledge the validity of anything except the
                  external life of the senses, where the only desire is for a widespread
                  technology, so that with somewhat greater refinement, men shall satisfy
                  their hunger, thirst and other needs in the same way as the animal. To
                  kill, to darken in man the consciousness that he is an image of the
                  Godhead -- this is what the Ahrimanic beings are endeavouring by subtle
                  scientific means of every kind to achieve in our age of the Spiritual
                  Soul...

                  From this mention of the streams which run counter to the normal,
                  god-willed evolution of man it can be gathered how he must conduct his
                  life, lest the impending revelation finds him in a state of sleep. A
                  great danger may arise and men must be alert to it. If they are not,
                  instead of the event that should play a momentous part in shaping the
                  future evolution of the Earth, a great danger to this evolution will
                  supervene...

                  And what if this should happen after all? What if humanity on earth should persist in sleeping through the momentous spiritual revelation of the future?...Here lies the great danger for the age of the Spiritual
                  Soul. This is what might still happen if, before the beginning of the
                  third millennium, men were to refuse to turn to the spiritual life. The
                  third millennium begins with the year 2000, so it is only a short time
                  ahead of us. It might still happen that the aim of the Angels in their
                  work would have to be achieved by means of the sleeping bodies of men --
                  instead of through men wideawake. The Angels might still be compelled to
                  withdraw their whole work from the astral body and to submerge it in the
                  etheric body in order to bring it to fulfillment. But then, in his real
                  being, man would have no part in it. It would have to be performed in
                  the etheric body while man himself was not there, just because if he
                  were there in the waking state, he would obstruct it.

                  I have now given you a general picture of these things. But what would
                  be the outcome if the Angels were obliged to perform this work without
                  man himself participating, to carry it out in his etheric and physical
                  bodies during sleep?

                  The outcome in the evolution of humanity would unquestionably be
                  threefold. Firstly, something would be engendered in the sleeping human
                  bodies -- while the Ego and astral body were not within them -- and man
                  would meet with it on waking in the morning ... but then it would become
                  instinct instead of conscious spiritual activity and therefore baleful.
                  It is so indeed: certain instinctive knowledge that will arise in human
                  nature, instinctive knowledge connected with the mystery of birth and
                  conception, with sexual life as a whole, threatens to become baleful if
                  the danger of which I have spoken takes effect. Certain Angels would
                  then themselves undergo a change -- a change of which I cannot speak,
                  because this is a subject belonging to the higher secrets of
                  Initiation-Science which may not yet be disclosed. But this much can
                  certainly be said: The effect in the evolution of humanity would be that
                  certain instincts connected with the sexual life would arise in a
                  pernicious form instead of wholesomely, in clear waking consciousness.
                  These instincts would not be mere aberrations but would pass over into
                  and configure the social life, would above all prevent men -- through
                  what would then enter their blood as the effect of the sexual life --
                  from unfolding brotherhood in any form whatever on the earth, and would
                  rather induce them to rebel against it. This would be a matter of
                  instinct...

                  So the crucial point lies ahead when either the path to the right can be
                  taken -- but that demands wakefulness -- or the path to the left, which
                  permits of sleep. But in that case instincts come on the scene --
                  instincts of a fearful kind.

                  Raphael - The Angel Rescues Peter From Jail

                  And what do you suppose the scientific experts will say when such
                  instincts come into evidence? They will say that it is a natural and
                  inevitable development in the evolution of humanity. Light cannot be
                  shed on such matters by natural science, for whether men become angels
                  or devils would be equally capable of explanation by scientific
                  reasoning. Science will say the same in both cases: the later is the
                  outcome of the earlier ... so grand and wise is the interpretation of
                  nature in terms of causality! Natural science will be totally blind to
                  the event of which I have told you, for if men become half devils
                  through their sexual instincts, science will as a matter of course
                  regard this as a natural necessity. Scientifically, then, the matter is
                  simply not capable of explanation, for whatever happens, everything can
                  be explained by science. The fact is that such things can be understood
                  only by spiritual, supersensible cognition. That is the one aspect.
                  The second aspect is that from this work which involves changes
                  affecting the Angels themselves, still another result accrues for
                  humanity: instinctive knowledge of certain medicaments -- but knowledge
                  of a baleful kind!

                  Everything connected with medicine will make a great advance in the
                  materialistic sense. Men will acquire instinctive insights into the
                  medicinal properties of certain substances and certain treatments -- and
                  thereby do terrible harm. But the harm will be called useful. A sick man
                  will be called healthy, for it will be perceived that the particular
                  treatment applied leads to something pleasing. People will actually like
                  things that make the human being -- in a certain direction -- unhealthy.
                  Knowledge of the medicinal effects of certain processes and treatments
                  will be enhanced, but this will lead into very baleful channels. For man
                  will come to know through certain instincts, what kind of illnesses can
                  be induced by particular substances and treatments. And it will then be
                  possible for him either to bring about or not to bring about illnesses,
                  entirely as suits his egotistical purposes.

                  The third result will be this. Man will get to know of definite forces
                  which, simply by means of quite easy manipulations -- by bringing into
                  accord certain vibrations -- will enable him to unleash tremendous
                  mechanical forces in the world. Instinctively he will come to realise in
                  this way the possibility of exercising a certain spiritual guidance and
                  control of the mechanistic principle -- and the whole of technical
                  science will sail into desolate waters. But human egoism will find these
                  desolate waters of tremendous use and benefit.

                  This, my friends, is a fragment of concrete knowledge of the evolution
                  of existence, a fragment of a conception of life which can be truly
                  assessed only by those who realise that an unspiritual view of life can
                  never grow clear about these things. If a form of medicine injurious to
                  humanity were ever to take root, if a terrible aberration of the sexual
                  instincts were to arise, if there were baleful doings in the sphere of
                  the purely mechanistic forces of the world, in the application of the
                  forces of nature by means of spiritual powers, an unspiritual conception
                  of life would see through none of these things, would not perceive how
                  they deviate from the true path ... The sleeper, as long as sleep lasts,
                  does not see the approach of a thief who is about to rob him; he is
                  unaware of it and at most he finds out later on, when he wakes, what has
                  been done to him. But it would be a bad awakening for humanity! Man
                  would pride himself upon the growth of his instinctive knowledge of
                  certain processes and substances and would experience such satisfaction
                  in obeying certain aberrations of the sexual impulses that he would
                  regard them as evidence of a particularly high development of
                  superhumanity, of freedom from convention, of broad-mindedness! In a
                  certain respect, ugliness would be beauty and beauty, ugliness. Nothing
                  of this would be perceived because it would all be regarded as natural
                  necessity. But it would denote an aberration from the path which, in the
                  nature of humanity itself, is prescribed for man's essential being.

                  Source: http://www.elib.com/Steiner/Lectures/WorkAngel.phtml
                  Exerpts from a lecture By: Rudolf Steiner
                  Zurich, 9th October, 1918 -- (GA 182).

                  Translated by D. S. Osmond with the help of Owen Barfield.

                   
                  Entry of the Michael Forces. From: Karmic Relationships, Esoteric
                   Studies III
                   
                  http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/KRIII9_index.html

                   …."The destiny of anthroposophists, — the destiny that works
                   itself out between anthroposophists and non-anthroposophists, —
                   casts its waves even into the worlds of the Angeloi. It leads to a
                   parting of the Spirits, even in the world of the Angeloi. The Angel who
                   accompanies the anthroposophist to his next incarnations learns to find
                   his way still more deeply into the spiritual kingdoms than he could do
                   before, while the Angel who belongs to the other man — to the one
                   who cannot enter, — descends. It is in the destiny of the Angeloi
                   that we first perceive how this great separation is taking place. To
                   this, my dear friends, I would now direct your hearts. It is happening
                   now, that the comparatively single and uniform kingdom of the Angeloi is
                   being turned into a twofold kingdom of Angeloi, a kingdom of Angeloi
                   with an upward tendency into the higher worlds, and with a downward
                   tendency into lower worlds.
                  While the Michael community is being formed here upon earth, we can behold above it the ascending and the descending Angeloi. Looking more
                   deeply into the world to-day, one can perpetually observe these streams, which are such as to stir the heart to its foundations."….. 

                   "Now I have told you that those who come into the anthroposophical
                   life fall into two main groups. There are the ones who still carry into
                   it a knowledge from the old heathen times, and have had little
                   experience of that Christian development which took its course during
                   the Kali Yuga. They have gone on evolving out of the old Pagan sources,
                   and they now grow into the Christianity which is to be a cosmic
                   Christianity once more. They are souls with a Pagan predestination, who
                   in reality are only now growing into Christianity. The others are souls
                   who are a little weary of Paganism, though they do not confess this to
                   themselves. From the outset they grow into the Anthroposophical Movement
                   on account of its Christian character, but they do not enter so deeply
                   into the anthroposophical Cosmology, the anthroposophical Anthropology,
                   and so forth. They enter, rather, into the more abstractly religious
                   side. These two groups are clearly to be distinguished.

                   We can only grasp these things when we receive them in our hearts; but
                   they must enter into the hearts of anthroposophists. For only then will
                   a real living-together within the Anthroposophical Society be possible,
                   on a true anthroposophical foundation. When the more Pagan kind of
                   souls, if I may call them so, bring forth their forces, which are in
                   many cases already there in this incarnation deep within their souls,
                   though they will often only come forth with difficulty, — when as I
                   say they do bring forth the forces that are there in them, then there
                   will spread over the whole Anthroposophical Society an atmosphere of
                   steady and courageous progress in the good sense of Michael."
                   
                  Carol.

                   

                • holderlin66
                  Thinking; Thinking; and Thinking; what do we latch onto when we latch onto the intuitions that arise between Spiritual Science and our thinking? With our human
                  Message 8 of 30 , May 26 12:36 PM
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                    Thinking; Thinking; and Thinking; what do we latch onto when we latch onto the intuitions that arise between Spiritual Science and our thinking? With our human intelligence we begin to grasp the sense of brotherhood that resounds in the neighboring spiritual worlds, the nearest border to us, our Angels and our higher beings. Oh yes, then we hear with real ears, not polluted ears what John Lennon of the Beatles tried to say with his "IMAGINE" before he was murdered.  Yes we come close in cultural life to grasp the message with our intuitions and we understand our fellow human beings efforts, don't we?

                    No, it doesn't connect anywhere close to cognitive certainty, when we have the cognitive certainty for us in clear cut Michael black and white, nobody is directed to look in that direction and translate the resounding hopes of our higher humanity to our higher brothers and sisters in the Angelic community.  It is relegated to the fog of human reason.

                    We approach the imaginations of how the biological human being, when we take it apart, we find a brilliant instrument fashioned as an imagination out of the zodiac and a fully integrated, a biological trans temporal and trans spatial, trans einsteinien super physics model that has all the bells and whistles that St. Paul had.  And Steiner pulls in the idea that the Spirits of Form, HE that restructured the fallen human consciousness to sustain the higher physics of Spirit Man, is  siphoning, funneling down to the Angels, clear cut upward Imaginations that ignite like fire when people begin to activate their Michael Intelligence by opening themselves to the insights of Spiritual Science.  But you can't find spiritual science out there with out tremendous soul effort and most of the time tragedy. Tragedy that shakes the complacency right out of our selfish little arrogant souls.

                    Yes we have this Eye of light detection in the dark chamber of our brains where the pineal gland has been recessed, and Steiner has shown just how our pulse and breath imitate daily the mighty Platonic procession of the Sun's journey. Our ribs, our 23 chromosome DNA and double Helix system has been outlined clearly here from Crick and Watson to Yggrasill and the mighty spiral staircase and double helix of the gods rings upwards in the Foundation Stone. We see this Jacobs ladder and double helix spiral under microsopes, in the chambered natuilus and in the distat stars and galaxies. 

                     Our Anima and Animus, and  all profound insights dealing with light digestion in plant blood and the clear connection between plant digestion of light, outwardly and human digestion of new etheric sun light inwardly are clearly the foundational sciences of Goetheanism.  A difference only in the structure of magnesium in the plant and iron in the human blood creates the dividing difference between the external etheric expressions of the plant world and the internal digestion of light and thought in the nursling i am.  We can bring the science clearly to bear but the willing soul, you can bring the horse to water, but just like the human stubborn and corrupted little selfish being it is, thinking cannot become rich and vital unless we learn to shake the cultural chaos from us, like a dog shakes water from it's fur. 

                    And here in 'real time' on earth  we have a chance to look, encounter, speak and make love to human beings who are the concrete manifestation in space of a journey of trans-spatial, trans-temporal incarnation specifications of specific consciousness and inborn karmic navigation. These we attempt to say, come with us from the stars and people openly guffaw in our faces.  Yes, we have discussed just how we carry star maps through our 12 cranial nerves but we might as well be flayling our limbs wildly in the middle of a hurricane.  The credit we earn and should give ourselves is only in discerning where the Angelic messages peep through as whispers through our fellow human beings.  We can draw so little courage from the squeeks and grunts that our culture is allowing that it requires us to dip deeply into Michael culture and Michael Intelligence to gain and regain our spiritual navigation and courage.

                    We can define the various layers of soul whispers understood through inspired sentient soul thinking, inspired intellectual soul thinking and the massive research ground of the Consciousness Soul in the entire body of Spiritual Science. Spiritual Science is such a vast body of research that where ever you turn your attention you encounter vivid impressions that our fellow human beings and ourselves have bumped into.  But then we find, to our shock, that every inch of real grasp of how the Angels and our intuitions are wrestling upwards and cheering for us to wrestle in an upward direction, just as if you could watch the squirming of the butterfly trying to unfold itself out of the Chrysalis, everything we think has to be reorganized and reintegrated so that real Spiritual Science and not merely Luciferic opinion or Darwinistic animality and man as a mechanized meat machine of Ahriman's, clearly connects to the actual work of the Angels in all of our Astral bodies.  We are all Time Sharing this period of incarnation impressions with a whole host of billions of souls. 

                     

                     

                    Steiner; Angels Work

                    "Through the Angels, the Spirits of
                    Form are already now shaping these pictures in our astral body. The
                    Angels form pictures in man's astral body...it is clear that they have a
                    very definite plan for the future configuration of social life on earth;
                    their aim is to engender in the astral bodies of men such pictures as
                    will bring about definite conditions in the social life of the future...
                    in forming these pictures the Angels work on a definite principle,
                    namely, that in the future no human being is to find peace in the
                    enjoyment of happiness if others beside him are unhappy. An impulse of
                    Brotherhood in the absolute sense, unification of the human race in
                    Brotherhood rightly understood -- this is to be the governing principle
                    of the social conditions in physical existence.


                    That is the one principle in accordance with which the Angels form the
                    pictures in man's astral body.

                    But there is a second impulse in the work of the Angels. The Angels have
                    certain objectives in view, not only in connection with the outer social
                    life but also with man's life of soul. Through the pictures they
                    inculcate into the astral body their aim is that in future time every
                    human being shall see in each and all of his fellow-men a hidden
                    divinity.

                    Quite clearly, then, according to the intention underlying the work of
                    the Angels, things are to be very different in future. Neither in theory
                    nor in practice shall we look only at man's physical qualities,
                    regarding him as a more highly developed animal, but we must confront
                    every human being with the full realisation that in him something is
                    revealing itself from the divine foundations of the world, revealing
                    itself through flesh and blood. To conceive man as a picture revealed
                    from the spiritual world, to conceive this with all the earnestness, all
                    the strength and all the insight at our command -- this is the impulse
                    laid by the Angels into the pictures..."

                    Bradford includes;

                    Steiner refers clearly to the bottom end of cognition, where human instincts and the etheric body can be infected with Ahirmanic imaginations.  Steiner keeps the ground and the sub-sensible sinking ground that humanity is walking over, the ground of Ahriman beneath our feet as in the Representative of Man statue.... But then we have to translate this so that thinkers can understand what exactly we mean by Ahrimanic imagination against human and Angelic imaginations.  Pharmo science, military industrial biological and chemical warfare and sciences as well as gruesome torture, drugs given to our children to disrupt their astral bodies and nervous systems and numb them, and prevent them, distort the suffocated i am from ever even approaching the struggle with thinking, intuition and freedom that those of us still have is the horrific ground we are wrestling on. 

                    Rushing up into our cognition are swirling instincts that have been cut loose from their moorings and now swamp our eyes and ears.  But the beauty of it is, that we can see clearly what it means if we submerge or force our Angels down into those instincts and we skip wrestling like Jacob with our Angels.  We can easily see it and have countless examples in film, books, philosophy and star tracking on historical rhythms in other human and karmic lives, that we know and can see the dynamics in us and around us.  

                    We did something a while back on this list called the Angelic Daily Briefing and compared it the PDB or President's Daily Briefing.  It is an outstanding insight but so much for insights.  Angelic Daily Briefings are what we get when we are students and cognitive participants in our ruchshau and waking and morning insights.  We also must constantly wrestle with the thrusting up of Ahrimanic political, religious, educational and medical attacks around us.  These are not merely quaint little ideas about attack.  These attacks  burrow into the insecure parents brains and next thing you know their children are medicated, cell phoned, i-podded and diverted with shredded intelligence, so fully that the way back to cognitive clarity of Michael Intelligence is lost.  Lost! That which our children came down to sort out and battle with, with us in the Fifth Epoch, with us, with a model of Fifth Epoch initiate Devachan action in our midst as Michael thought,  Michael attempts in film and books.... Michael inspired action and Angelic imaginations coming directly out of the transformed Spirit Man of the mighty Spirit of Form Sun Logos....  LOST!

                    Well the floor beneath our feet has to be considered the wrestling ring where fully Ahrimanic or Luciferic forces.... firstly Ahrmanic on the ground as rumbling, tilting, squirming and intimidating imaginations out of Ahriman's kingdom overwhelm the limp and dull intellectual grasp of our parents and educators our cultural leaders and no one references the clarity of Dr. Steiner. It is here where our intuitions are born, get hot and encounter and wrestle through, each to his own, how Michael Intelligences and our Angels, using our human brains, reject and wrestle against Ahriman and win for our Angelic neighbors, thinking intuitions.  So the ground beneath our feet is deception, and Ahrimanic intent riddled with imaginations and distractive technology, because the soul is too immature and our children too immature to hold the cognitive i am between these forces of mighty techo-super cultural swarms of imaginations and the intimacy of the soul's own destiny.

                    Then the ceiling, the Imaginations and watered down sensuality of selfish Luciferic instant gratification goodies are offered as mall rat food.  The strength where Michael ethics and Michael courage can walk through all of the pop up temptations of instant gratification of all our selfish Luciferic desires and weed, chop and disentangle all the vicious jungle of Ahrimanic imaginations gives us both the sky and floor of where the human dwells.  That is correct, if you can think.  If you can think and when you can think you will clearly understand that when you stip away the nonsense the sky and the floor of cognition where we maintain the Spirit of Form Imagination of striving Man or Humanity, is the gnarled tangled war of deceptions and lies around us every day and every hour and the ceiling, the sistine chapel of our Luciferic whims and desires....Just imagine what Michael Jackson's sistine chapel above his head of Luciferic desires looks like.  Just Imagine what Cheney's Ahrimanic floor looks like, strewn with bodies and lies.

                    And 1 in 10 million will give you Dr. Rudolf Steiner as a back up and strength, because nobody can give you anything that you don't want.  And nobody wants to find their floor with the rough cut of icy dragon teeth, spewed with the dried blood of fallen humans, crunched in the jaws of the Ahrimanic "Saw" of cruelty.  Nobody wants to find their ethics and insights on clear navigational grounds that sort out selfish, new age, watered down, mall hallucinations from actual Truth, clarity and intuitions that we have wrestled with as we have wrestled with our Angels. Translating thinking into our tools, and tools that all Michael School students understand anywhere pops up everywhere, but so few, so far between and so few can direct our intelligence to the Michael School studies and our Angels dire, dire pressing hopes, that you realize people don't want to learn to think.

                  • holderlin66
                    Uberheroes, Ubermensch and submerging our Angel s: Bradford brought; Next we might discuss the impetus and the instinctive ploy to discover SuperHeros,
                    Message 9 of 30 , May 29 8:23 AM
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                       Uberheroes, Ubermensch and submerging our Angel's:

                      Bradford brought;
                      "Next we might discuss the impetus and the instinctive ploy to discover SuperHeros,  SpiderMan, or other genetic misfits like X-Men "Last Stand".... and fantasy and other forces that have begun to seek the slumbering human etheric being, as instincts and these mighty forces are latent in the crippled and corrupt thinking forces of science and military labs and universities everywhere. Nothing, nothing like the associations and ideas that need to be made between the Angels Work in the Astral Body of Man and the general chaotic and twisted cunning that now has begun a terrible, terrible process in human culture-  It drives down into the medical malpractice and Pharmo evil of destroying and altering our children, because the cohesion and forces of the healthy astral and nervous system are early compromised. "

                      "X-Men: The Last Stand begins with a question that is key to all that follows. The scene is a suburban living room, 20 years in the past. Prof. Charles Xavier (Patrick Stewart) and Eric Lensherr (Ian McKellen) interview the young Jean Grey. All three are mutants — homo superior, genetic misfits with superhuman abilities. These skills typically manifest themselves at puberty...

                      " What's more, Jean has evolved again. Now she shares her body with the Phoenix, the volatile, almighty force that Xavier foretold in the beginning of the film. Jean's mind has fractured into two personas. Ideological clashes between humanity and mutantkind have coloured the X-Men's 43-year run in our collective consciousness. The conflict has always been obvious subtext for racism, with mutants representing the oppressed. Now, they stand to surrender their powers and live as normal humans. Even among the X-Men, there is debate about what this means: should mutants accept their genocide by syringe, or reject the cure and revel in their uniqueness? "

                      Bradford includes;

                      If we push all the insights of history and Spiritual Science and the Michael School into the unconscious and prepare a society, along with Ahrimanic CURES that by simply genetic planning, or early injection, humanity could remove all the apparent pathological discrepancies and uncomfortableness of wrestling with cognition, wrestling with our Angel and integrating the Consciousness Soul insights into our thinking, how our sugary passive and glad would be the slug of the soul of Man.  Reduce reality down to the Red Pill or the Blue pill is as simple as humanity cares to strive.  For humanity all striving and wisdom should be very simple so that the simple Fundamentalisti literalist, Jihad Christian or Moslem, will like GWB merely make a black or white issue out of the uncomfortable struggle to exercise spiritual cognition.  No more worries about doubles and shadows and wide ranging behavior in our children and adults. No more dreary contradictions and difficult integrations of exoteric university fragmented and destructive thinking in the sciences with rich cohesive Occult Science.  IF- as Ahriman intends, we slowly arrive at an attractive sense of complacency and we worship the genetic sciences against the actual workings of the higher worlds and our intimate individual star astral bodies.  Due to our i-pod and mall, cell phone video culture we will lose the cognitive ability to think or track our destinies as individual karmic systems...

                      And we here understand something profound out of Spiritual Science. Each human being is a complete species... not like the Animal at all.  The Animal secretes a fragment of dogness, a fragment of catness and certainly not the whole Dog Being... Egyptian Astral studies show animal heads on human forms... but the secret is that each time we as human i am's incarnate we carry around with us, like the chambered nautilus, the entire group of our own incarnation histories as both male and female.  We carry around with us all our different masks and manifestations as fully met i amness lurking in the meeting we have with any individual we encounter.  We very likely have met on Earth before in some circumstance or if we are karmically meeting for the first time, se get the sense that the new karmic meeting doesn't instinctively know us at all. We are a complete species unto ourselves that include all our incarnation experiences, in the magnificent sculpted, physics trans-spatial and trans-temporal biological and spiritual system we carry around with us as our operative physical shell.

                      These are not mere words. Wolfgang Pauli the Nobel physics prize winner and Jung and Steiner and Einstein knew what we are presenting here. If the Michael student doesn't know what we are presenting here, it requires more ripening of your intelligence. But most Michael students do know what we are talking about here. If you want to go back and reveiw all you need to do is to tap into the search tool for trans-spatial and trans-temporal and find what we have understood so far and how we add these aspects we adding now. 

                       We also add the aspect that in order to understand how the Pyramid in Space, in geographic and accurate space was used as a launch point into the tip of the Pyramid which became what we call the tunnel in NDE or Near Death Experience or we can easily say, novice and initiation, pre-christ hierophant out of the body controlled experience... You are required to imagine how the accurate spacial forces created out of the Pyramid launched the soul and the star boat out into the astral world of the stars after death.... And how these spatial mathematical forces rebounded on the soul, due to the consturction of the Pyramid and has become in the Fifth Epoch our ability to launch and drive ourselves out beyond the shores of gravity with force but no cognition.

                      What was forgotten and materialized, was the dynamic trans-spatial and trans-temporal quality that the Egyptians knew about the secrets of space that today humanity doesn't grasp about the secrets of it's own biological/spiritual system. It cannoth fathom outside of Spiritual Science of different stripes, the reality of the Astral body which Ahriman hopes that we forget and numb down and dumb down so that ahrimanic medical imaginations can of X-Men, and mutant Angels can replace insights into the astral foundations of our being.  These are all  Michael School interests that transcend certain Ahrimanic medical intents.

                      But as Ahrimanic intentions and ideas trump and overwhelm our efforts to maintain Michael thinking, humanity becomes cognitively weaker and weaker and even the sentimental understanding of our Angels disappears as having any relation to anything we do on Earth and becomes something merely quaint and dusty and old. 

                      Instead it is the vital thinking and spiritual reasoning that is called for in the starter recipe of the Philosophy of Spiritual Activity and opens the door to discerning light in the thought world.  The Brain as an organ for the cognition and co-ordination of various streams and spectrums of light that are laden with thought intuitions is a living Newtonian darkroom where spiritual qualities of light are mined. 

                      It doesn't much matter if you agree or disagree with what your brain does, this is what your brain does.  Your brain serves the purpose  of sorting out light streams and it doesn't matter that you are overwhelmed with subjective emotional intelligence or sucked down into your will and love only Athletic Intelligence.... Thinking serves the first stage of reconnecting to our higher Angelic systems and emotional imagination and intuitive thinking into the deeper systems is what finally brings us our Arts and Sciences.  So people can blather and bicker all they want to about their feelings and how subjective they feel about this or that persons way of  expression and the way they express themselves, the point of brotherhood is UNDERSTANDING how another person expresses themselves.

                      This doesn't have to, but all this can lead to a kind of genetic malpractice and letting the organ of thinking atrophy.  Letting the eye in the soul house, atrophy. Ahriman would prefer to have a society that could be genetically experimented with and enhanced and worshipped, not as a spiritual being but as mutants and genetic misfits where Angels have Fallen into the human etheric body because humanity chose to go to sleep instead of remain waking up and wrestling with their Angels everyday for some cognitive certainty.

                    • holderlin66
                      Bradford brought; And we here understand something profound out of Spiritual Science. Each human being is a complete species... not like the Animal at all.
                      Message 10 of 30 , May 30 10:11 AM
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                        Bradford brought;
                        "And we here understand something profound out of Spiritual Science. Each human being is a complete species... not like the Animal at all.  The Animal secretes a fragment of dogness, a fragment of catness and certainly not the whole Dog Being... Egyptian Astral studies show animal heads on human forms... but the secret is that each time we as human i am's incarnate we carry around with us, like the chambered nautilus, the entire group of our own incarnation histories as both male and female.  We carry around with us all our different masks and manifestations as fully met i amness lurking in the meeting we have with any individual we encounter."

                         

                        Bradford includes;

                        Alternating, in most cases, alternating male and female incarnations and collecting through the vast precession of the equinoxes an entire group soul of spiritual experiences that is our collective unconscious.  Now here you see we divert from Jung and actually penetrate the deep roots of what is really meant.  Again, it doesn't matter that you wish this all to slow down and that you wish to get the attention you deserve and you wish to limit topics to your subjective mood swings, the point is that you want Michael Intelligence and Cosmic Intelligence to conform itself to your personal little tweaky moods.  But step up to the plate or don't. Here we are presenting an uncommon, deeply cohesive view into the Archetypes of the Unconscious and how each human individual we meet carries a vast Species wide Group Soul of experience of it's own making. In this vast TAIL, as animals have a tail, so human beings are not Group Soul beings. Human beings do not have horizontal spine forms, they have thinking and cognitive forms.  Again it doesn't matter that you agree or disagree, these facts will stary right where they are until we are ready to approach them.

                        http://www.doyletics.com/arj/cahmrvw.htm

                        "... Steiner develops the Platonic Great Year and shows how it relates to our everyday life. Or rather how our everyday life relates to the cosmos itself. Due to the precession of the equinoxes, the sun rises in a slightly constellation on the morning of the Vernal Equinox -- the spring day which has twelve hours of day and twelve hours of night [definition of an equinox]. The place of the Sun in the Zodiac moves each year and after 25,920 years it returns to its original spot in the Zodiac. This comprises a Great Year or great Platonic Cosmic Year.

                        As humans we breathe 18 times a minute, sometimes faster or slower, but over a lifetime, we average 18 breaths a minute. Calculate the number of breaths we average a day and you get 25,920 breaths. "An amazing, but trivial coincidence," the skeptic in you might say.

                        Now calculate the days of a human's life, and you'll find that somewhere between 70 and 71 years one has lived exactly 25,920 days. Since that number is very close to a human's life expectancy, let's use that as a measure of a human life, 25,920 days. [Some will not live so long and others much longer; of course, it is a result of our freedom that this is so.] If we divide 365.25, the number of days in a year, into the Platonic Cosmic Year of 25,290 years, we get the span of a human life, about 70.5 years! Thus Steiner is led to say:

                        [page 17] A man's life is to a Platonic year as human day to a man's life.

                        When one has breathed 25,290 breaths, one's day is completed. When one has lived 25,290 days, one's life span is completed. In a day's time we have gone to asleep and re-awakened, a process during which our astral and ego bodies leave and return, as if they were breathed out and breathed back in by some being. Just as the air leaves our physical body and radiates into the air surrounding the Earth, our astral and ego bodies must leave the Earth and radiate out into the space surrounding the Earth. We can imagine a Great Being of Earth who breathes our astral and I bodies in and out once during the course of a single day (awake) and night (asleep) or one rotation of its physical body in relationship to the Sun. When humans die, their ego and astral bodies leave the Earth and the region of the Sun, and this can be imagined as a still Greater Being of the Sun that breathes in and out once in the course of an average human life, once every 70.5 years. [25,290 years divided by 365.25] Thus the 70.5 years to the Sun are like 24 hours to the Earth, as 3.3 seconds to a human on Earth.

                        [page 18] You see how it is: - we draw one small breath in the 18th of a minute, which regulates our life; - our life is lived on the earth, the breathing of which comprises day and night; that corresponds with the out-going and in-coming of the ego and astral body into the physical and etheric bodies: and we are ourselves breathed in by the great Being whose life corresponds to the course of the sun, our own life is one breath of this great Being. Now you see that as Microcosms we are actually part of and subject to the same laws, as regards the Universal Beings, as the breath we draw is subject to our own human being. . . . if our hearts are sensitive to the secrets of cosmic existence and not mere blocks of wood, the saying 'we are placed in the Universe' will cease to be abstract words, for we shall be fully alive to the fact. A knowledge and a feeling will spring up within us the fruits of which will be borne in the impulses of our will, and our whole being live in unison with the great Life, Divine Cosmic Existence.

                        Steiner next discusses three meetings that humans have with their Spirit selves. The first is the meeting with one's genius during sleep. We all unconsciously acknowledge the first meeting when we say, "Let me sleep on that decision." The first meeting is also embodied in our laws that allow one to change one's mind for three days after signing a purchase contract. That's two nights to sleep on it. Here's how he characterizes that meeting:

                        [page 25] This meeting is important for man. For all the feelings that gladden the soul with respect to its connection with the Spiritual world proceed from this meeting with one's genius during sleep. The feeling which we may have in our waking state, of our connection with the Spiritual world, is an after-effect of this meeting with our genius.

                        The second meeting happens once a year during the same time that the whole Earth gives itself up to the Spirit.

                        [page 26] . . . at about Christmas-time and on to our present New Year, man goes through a meeting of his astral body with the Life-Spirit, in the same way as he goes through the first meeting, that of his ego with the Spirit Self. Upon this meeting with the Life-Spirit depends the nearness of Christ Jesus. For Christ Jesus reveals Himself through the Life-Spirit.

                        The third meeting happens once in a person's life during the period between 28 and 42 years of age - it is the meeting with the Father-Principle. The changes that happen in one's life during that time, rightly understood, stem from that meeting with the Father-Principle. If one dies involuntarily before one reaches the age of 42, that meeting with the Father-Principle occurs during the hour of death. If one dies by one's own hand before 42, one may be deprived of having this third meeting in this incarnation.

                        In this next passage Steiner gives us a prayer by which we may come to know the "holiness of sleep."

                        [page 30] People should at least become gradually able to develop a feeling which can be expressed somewhat as follow: 'I am going to sleep; until I wake, my soul will be in the Spiritual world. There it will meet with the guiding-power of my earth-life, who lives in the Spiritual world, and who soars round and surrounds my head. My soul will have the meeting with my genius. The wings of my genius will come in contact with my soul.'

                        In sleep we are in a state similar to a plant that is ready to germinate a new plant. Our seed of a future us is growing inside us with the aid our genius. In sleep, we are at work on the future us - what we will be in our future incarnation. Those plans for a future incarnation at night, are like the plans each day that we each have for tomorrow. Think of your plans for tomorrow, dear Reader. You know the Sun will rise and you have some idea about where you will go, what you will do. Some of those plans will be realized and some will not. That is similar to the plans that at night you make with your genius for your future life on this Earth."

                        Bradford concludes;

                        So here we understand the strange idea of trailing clouds of glory. But how do we apply ourselves to Spiritual Science? We and our Angels understand that we are working through our incarnations on the Earth within our Karmic encounters, we are working through exactly what Steiner's Mystery Dramas and all occult schools understand when we are inserted into TIME.  We have below the surface of our daily consciousness, vast webs of experience both after death, earthly, and spiritual encounters.  One such film, "Made in Heaven" tackles such an issue of planning from the spiritual worlds and mapping of destiny on earth. It is warmly informative. We have after death workings and experiences such as Helmuth von Moltke and Steiner that Carol has made living again for usWe have the film, "Just Like Heaven" where a woman haunts her own apartment because she is actually out of her body and in a coma. How this initiation experience works is part of the film.   These are experiences and presently cultural experiences for any Michael student to grasp. 

                         But in the deeper cohesive issues of the soul, we have been creating through the vast precession of the Sun journey our own little 72 year sun incarnation biographical experiences.  These rich harvested experiences are part of the human group soul.  Our human group soul may have alternated in male and female incarnations and at each time, and sometimes in specific instances, predominating female etheric forces are weaker or stronger and we find that these weaker or stronger forces create the anima or animus system of our mirror etheric body.

                        It certainly doesn't matter that you like or dislike the information or studies that arise, what matters is that you grasp how these facts operate. What matters is that you outdo Jung and grasp that each individual trails a vast Group Soul of ITSELF and it's experiences as harvested and processed by the Spiritual World and that these are priceless riches each person carries around with them.  What matters to the Angels is that when we encounter a child or another human being we begin to SEE the deeper contours and outlines of the wonderful complex nature of each human spirit.  That is what the Angels demand of us, requires For out of such priceless riches, the seeds of Spirit-Self; Life-Spirit and Spirit-Man will grow. 

                        What matters is that somewhere along our selfish and indolent paths of life we come to question the Golgotha Event and come to understand that something unique that has bearing on the whole future of humanity, as growing seed forces that are moving with the cosmos at the rate of incarnations events, through 25, 920 years... and that we are collecting a vast group soul and a constellation of experiences that stands greater than any animal because it is enriched with the i am and processed with divinity and precision from with our starry ancestors. We transcend the Animal circle. Get it through our thick skulls and stop diminishing ourselves and our children with utter educational nonsense. Neither evoltuion or creationism, but Steiner's version of Intelligent Design is the only game in town, along with other cohesive occult schools. It doesn't matter if you like this or not.

                        Now we come back to how Ahriman would prefer to diminish the human idea and human ideal into a form of animal thinking and cellular and genetic puzzle pieces and lego blocks.  Thinking about the human being as a mere animal of extreme gentic potential and instincts is an enhanced Ahrimanic goal of the Fifth Epch.  We pose ourselves as seekers and we say, Oh Whitsun, well that might be the time to consider the Ego and the Sword in the Stone and the whole of Arthurian lore.  There is no better film study, yet, to date, than "Excalibur" on Arthurian lore. But what do 12 knights and 12 cranial nerves and individual star maps have to do with harvesting our 'collective unconscious'.   But this entire study is once more a product of Michael culture and Michael Imaginations vs Ahrimanic imagination and mostly we still don't get it.  We still don't get the Statue and Representative of Humanity, that Steiner sculpted as Ahrimanic Imaginations swirling destructively beneath our feet and Luciferic sistine chapel ceiling paintings swirling above our heads and Cosmic conscience and Human intelligence cutting through the waves heading for home.

                        You rush your children and yourselves into a college that teaches nothing but rubish. It teaches how we are mere animal-machines.  Nano tinker toys. Your entire intellects and your children's intellects are shredded and than we have the audacity to wrankle and wiggle and scream that there certainly must be other answers, different answers, different ways to twist the puzzle into a pretzel.  Of course we can twist the puzzle into a pretzel anyway we like to, but the facts are gonna come right back onto your lap.  They come right back onto your lap because we need to update Jung, so that Jung's contributions don't decay.  We need to catch up to Steiner, so that we can keep ourselves tracking our own Michael ZeitGeist culture as it unfolds.  This we do in Remembrance of HIM.  Of HIM that we can take our time coming to terms with.  Him being the Super Logos that is the backbone of all Intelligence.  The Logos backbone and foundation Stone of all wisdom.  Not Steiner... certainly not Steiner, who spoke brilliantly, and deeply ahead of his time and fashioned insights that would last for at least 300 years... But we enter and become conscious of our roles in the second phase of the Archai Michael's wonderful learning experience that humanity is plunged into in the Fifth Epoch.

                        It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree, the Fifth Epoch is encounter the icy science questions posed by Ahriman in the human soul.  It is our human souls that give Ahriman his active powers of deception. And in this, we are all guilty of participating in a vast deception to deny the divinity and the Incarnation Group of each I AM and their experiences and the great learning curve that the Angels themselves are midwifing with us.  Yes, and there is another irksome fact.  Above the rank and heads of humanity are our Angel elders and brothers and sisters.  How does humanity grow etheric, astral and I AM capacities into higher faculties and are those higher faculties understandable in reality and unfolding development from childhood to ripening maturity and initiation?  Get used to it, these are the facts and it doesn't matter how you squirm in your emtionally charged intellects, you still refuse to approach the facts as facts and begin appreciating them instead of rejecting them because the package they are brought in doesn't suit your temporay emotional state of being.

                      • holderlin66
                        Bradford brought; Here we are presenting an uncommon, deeply cohesive view into the Archetypes of the Unconscious and how each human individual we meet
                        Message 11 of 30 , May 31 8:35 AM
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                          Bradford brought;

                          "Here we are presenting an uncommon, deeply cohesive view into the Archetypes of the Unconscious and how each human individual we meet carries a vast Species wide Group Soul of experience of it's own making. In this vast TAIL, as animals have a tail, so human beings are not Group Soul beings. Human beings do not have horizontal spine forms, they have thinking and cognitive forms. "

                          Julian the Apostate

                           


                          Image: Gamuret and Herzeloyde

                          Herzeleide

                          In Wagner's music-drama, the mother of Parsifal. Like Tristan, her son is the innocent cause of his mother's
                          In Wolfram's poem, the sister of Anfortas and mother of Parzival.
                          Bradford comments:

                          Julian the Apostate, Herzeleide and Tycho de Brahe. Two male incarnations and a female incarnation.  So we are able to look into portions of the Group i am and collective unconscious of a particular species unto itself. Not an animal, but having rich karmic experiences that flow between the Angel and the human soul.

                          Julian is murdered with his will forces approaching the union of Pagan mystery wisdom with Christianity. It leaves a scar in the soul and also a portion of the carried forces that bring about a union of Paganism with Christianity is carried as a potent seed force in this striving i am.  When this potent seed force appears in Herzeleide, she gives birth to a son who also is intimate to the connection and direction of bringing about in the soul a force that joins Pagan Sun mysteries with Christ Sun mysteries and Herzeleide gives birth to Parsifal. 

                          But intimate to Parsifal is that which is working itself up through Parsifal as forces of Cosmic Christianity hidden in the depths of darkness of the middle ages or all that is arising as the tragedy of the Angels, the 869 crisis moment, where both the striving Grail Knight attains the Spirit Self and the political world of Christianity refutes and denies that there are Spiritual Logos forces working in the human being.  The entire Angel world is threatened with extinction in human consciousness. Parsifal brings hyper-sorrow and hyper-recollection of something tragic in Herzeleide. Materialism as science is prepared by the Church fathers, as humanity descends into the dark ages, only to surface with Ahriman barking at our heels.  Our feet in the age of Pisces, which we are in, have soles and our souls carry our destiny. Our feet take us to our destiny and our spirits discern the hidden meanings of our destiny.  

                          R.S.

                          "At the council of A.D. 869 the bishops of the Catholic Church forbade humanity to know anything about the large sphere. At that time they declared it a dogma of the Catholic Church that the middle sphere and the smallest sphere alone had existence, that man consists of body and soul only, spiritual characteristics being merely a quality of the soul. One part of the soul, it was held, was of a spiritual nature. Since the year A.D. 869 for Western culture derived from Catholicism there has been no spirit. But when relationship to the spirit was abolished the relationship of man to the world was abolished also. Man has been more and more driven in upon his egotism. Hence religion itself has become more and more egotistic. And to-day we live in an age when once again, if I may say so, from a spiritual observation we must learn man's relationship to the spirit, and through it to the world.

                          "Who is actually to blame for the materialism of natural science? It is the Roman Catholic Church which is chiefly to blame for our scientific materialism, because at the council of Constantinople in A.D. 869 it abolished the Spirit. What actually came about at that time? Consider the human head. Its development in the course of natural evolution shows to-day that it is the oldest of man's principles. The head is evolved immediately from the higher animals, and, further back again, from the lower animals. With respect to our head we are descended from the animal world. There is no denying it — the head is only a further evolved animal. If we look for the ancestry of our head we go back to the lower animals. Our breast was not joined to the head until later; it is not so animal as the head. We only received the breast in a later age. And the organs we human beings received last of all are the limbs.

                          "These are the most human of all. They are not remodeled from animal organs, they are added later. The animal organs were formed independently from out of the cosmos and given over to the animal, and the human organs were later formed independently and united with the breast. The Catholic Church concealed the knowledge of man's relationship to the universe from him: that is to say, it concealed from him the knowledge of the true nature of his limbs; and in so doing it handed on to succeeding generations an incomplete knowledge of the breast and a complete knowledge only of the head, of the skull. Thus, materialism made the discovery that the skull is descended from the animals: and now it claims that the whole human being is descended from the animals, whereas actually the breast organs and the limb organisation were only added later. By hiding from man the nature of his limbs, and hence this relation with the world, the Catholic Church caused the later materialistic age to apply to the whole human being what only holds good for the head. The Catholic Church is really the creator of materialism in this domain of the doctrine of evolution. It is the duty of the present-day teacher of youth to know these things. For he should take an interest in all that has happened in the world. And he should know the true grounds of the things which have happened in the world. "

                          http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/StudyMan/19190901a01.html

                          Figure 2

                          Bradford concludes;

                          Tycho de Brahe is a wild and unruly personality. Reading about Tycho reveals his rough interior Paganism that surfaces and his sense of Cosmic Christinaity and the Logos in his star studies enter the unconscious striving and collective unconscious of Tycho in a rich chaotic mix that gives us a sense of the complex issues and karmic events that this particular soul being has carried and is struggling with in time. His issues are also humanities most important issues. But now the Church and materialism has tainted and lost the intimate thread of the Spiritual World. NASA and abstract Klingsor, Star demons, left over from The Battle of the minstrels, now infect human consciousness with the materialism of the stars, horoscopes of abstraction, and false understanding of the true nature of science thinking and the stars now, through Klingsor and his false star demons, are called down against Wolfram Von Eschenbach.  The tale of the true Star wisdom in Parsifal, which you can read, how it relates to Saturn and the blood of Christ in the Spear and Wound of the Fisher King, is betrayed and infected with Klingsor's demonic star wisdom.  Tycho is still deeply struggling with the issue that almost made it to the surface in the merging of Pagan, Zarathustrian, Babylonian star science and how the Logos and Cosmic Christ operates in human beiography.  That is why the Fisher King is stung so deeply when Saturn is in Scorpio and his genitals are in male reproductive instinct agony.

                          But Parsifal is only able to achieve Spirit Self, at the darkest moment, of 869 because Schionatulander/Aristotle is killed in combat that was meant for Parsifal.  This sacrifice and death reveals the whole tragedy of the Grail that had to remain hidden from cultural sight until the dawning of Spiritual Science and the Michael impulse brought by Rudolf Steiner.  And if you think you can follow the struggle and the complexity that makes a human being a species unto himself,  with deep issues simmering under the surface of each and every individual, you can begin to grasp The Work of the Angels, that hold the collective incarnation experiences and capacities of Man, as human beings form, through 12 or more incarnations through time and the precession of the equinoxes, profound and often tragic attempts to reach the mighty Logos that has been handed over to humanity directly from Spiritual Science and the Michael School.

                        • holderlin66
                          The Angels have concerned themselves with the deeper roots of the i am, collective unconscious or various books, our books, let us say 12 books, 12 unique
                          Message 12 of 30 , Jun 1, 2007
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                            The Angels have concerned themselves with the deeper roots of the i am, collective unconscious or various books, our books, let us say 12 books, 12 unique volumes, with each chapter and each biographical and spiritual development written into the ethers and spiritual records through the great precession of mighty Platonic year.  We glimpse titles and book covers, but not the interior blueprints that represent each and every biographical initiation crisis and biographical and spiritual resolution that changed the roots of the character and ushered the soul closer to the goal of i am hood. We practice viewing and reviewing these events so that we can learn to mark the initiation events of today, because initiation events today will appear directly in open culture, as open mysteries, and so will the lessons of Ahriman, Michael, Lucifer appear openly and apparent in our  human biographies. Initiation is now an open matter that requires that we pay attention to the details of biography and grasp the deeper meanings and new language without muddling and confounding and confusing the issues or drugging them or diverting them into irrelevance.

                            Disciples of Sais and Initiates of Isis

                              

                            Before the "Son of the Widow", the "Youth of Nain", before he was the Youth of Nain, we vaguely sense and encounter in our thinking an old Egyptian manuscript that the Angels hold of an encounter with Isis and a premature glimpse into mighty spiritual worlds.  A very specific soul shattering encounter with the real Isis Veil and lifting the ancient Veil of Isis that revealed behind the curtain, behind the curtain or Veil of Isis, wasn't the wizard of OZ. But now we can place the curtain and veil of OZ as also an indicator and a deeper aspect of a cultural mystery language, and we can also compare another aspect of the mystery of the veil of Isis, the rending of the veil by Golgotha and the revelation of the holy of holies as the mighty Cosmic I AM shattered the Hebrew mysteries of the Kabala.

                            Behind the Veil of Isis was the snapshot and powerfully potent picture and impact of the approaching I AM out of the Egyptian Mysteries which, as Steiner brought in our recent look at  the Study of Man, the head of man was understood as having an animal origin form... This was a highly peculiar indication that Steiner gave that Steiner connected to the materialistic version of the Church and the Angelic tragedy of the 869 church decision. That is why we can ponder why the Egyptian gods have human bodies with various hyper sense faculties  and spiritual traits that appear as Animal heads on human frames. Suddenly we look upon the Animal formative forces that now house and embody the 12 cranial nerve system of the unique form of the human head.  Steiner, in our previous studies revealed that the Church limited the head system to the animal and gave man soul aspects but murdered and denied the greater and larger system of the Angelic world of Spiritual realities.  Steiner had made a drawing.  Steiner's drawing was of a small circle of the body, another circle of the body and soul and another wider circle containing the greater mysteries of the universe of Body-Soul and Spirit.

                            Before the Youth of Nain was the youth of Nain, the Angels already had on file, in what we might consider one of the 12 books of the great incarnation cycles of the precession, which can easily include many more rich volumes, some as female incarnations and some as male incarnations.  The Angels have these life manuscripts and star records as dynamic interior forces that will be enhanced and dropped into the NEW - Virgin Soul- that starts a whole new book and an unfolding biographical chapter by chapter from cradle to grave, a 71 to 72 year sun sketch, that integrates the intrinsic soul and spirit forces and allows the new instrument, the new physical from, etheric form, astral form, to incorporate newly acquired faculties.

                            So before the Youth of Nain was the Youth of Nain, he had already encountered a critical moment in a previous life, in a previous book of a traumatic Egyptian Initiation, which came up to haunt the Youth of Nain and brought him into a coma state, just around puberty and just as we understand the historical reality of the Egyptian and Astral Sciences as returning to us just around puberty, a disturbing intersection in the biography of the Youth of Nain, and whose mother was a widow, drew to the world's attention and in particular the Angels attention, that indeed this human/cosmic threshold and initiation  problem and solution had much to do with being part of the Egyptian Schools of the Sons of the Widow or initiates of Isis at a critical time when the veil was starting to open and an Initiate who had premature i am implosion at the threshold.  Somewhere in the unconscious was a vision, raw and real, that had met the future Logos and this is what hindered and lamed the Youth of Nain.  This is where lurks the issue of how Parsifal failed to ask the question the first time he encountered the Grail Mystery.

                            Now as an actual spiritual snapshot we understand that indeed the Mother below is kneeling, as a widow, and the son passes by Christ, apparently dead... and the widow, the dead youth and Christ the Logos intersect in a specific enounter on Earth.  Here the unconscious resolution of an ancient Egyptian question is met and resolved, but still not from a decision of consciousness in the stricken Youth of Nain.  The Angels were very interested in this moment and of course this moment marks a profound chapter in the biography of humanity and the biography of this particular individual human being.

                            The incubating Light Seed and the re-organization and re-ordering of the logos and I AM forces that struck the Youth of Nain, are re-worked and re-awakened and once more a new incarnation reveals the forces of Mani, who is placed on his earthly path by a Widow, purchasing his freedom.  A widow purchases young Mani's freedom and he is then known for several profound reasons, as Mani - The Son of the Widow.  A son of the initiate school of Isis, a son of the widow;  As the Youth of Nain, as a Son of the widow, and then Mani as freed by the Widow so becoming in the Mani incarnation, for the third time, the Son of the Widow.  So now we have an Egyptian Initiation pupil who had lifted the veil of Isis and was shattered by what he encountered of the approaching I AM.  In the next incarnation as puberty and the recollection of Egypt strikes into his life again, his mother a widow finds herself ready to bury her dead son.... when Christ and the widow intersect on Earth.  Next we have the peculiar destiny script written for Mani, that he is redeemed and given an education and freedom by a Widow and becomes in this third incarnation, once again the Son of a Widow.

                            Mani, Manichaen teacher of Light and Darkness.

                            What we research as the Green Man and the Etheric forces of Light in Nature were earlier grasped out of Mani's teachings, and here we are in Etheric Christ Goetheanism and etheric realities of the Etheric world of light and the plant world of 2007,  see where such breakthroughs arose from and what the Angels were grasping as core biographical destiny dynamics in a specific case study.  The cross of light was the active grasp of stone, plant, animal and human as a clock like cross of light that had been originally introduced by Plato.

                            Cross of Light
                            Buddha Nature Animating Matter

                            Manichaeans called the ecosystem, and the Buddha Nature within it, the Cross of Light. They were extremely reluctant to disturb it, even by walking on a spiritual journey lest they inadvertently harm a plant by stepping upon it.

                            Manichaeans taught that the "Suffering Christ" latent within matter was a result of an original fall of the Primordial Pair (Yeshu and Miryai). This Primordial Pair is an archetype of each of our own souls and the Cross of Light represents the scattered remains of our decomposed spiritual bodies lost when we descended down into these darkened universes. The soul of the First Man, and our souls,  are directly rescued through ritual Endowment work, but the 5 fold Armour (Spiritual Body) is rescued by collecting its residue in vegan foods and then having such reformed into a spiritual body. Modern Essenes continue this tradition by engaging in Endowments and by consecrating wholesome foods on Altars where their latent light sparks can be gathered in for later weaving into a spiritual Rainbow Robe. This Rainbow Robe is the Nazorean equivalent to the resurrected body of the Catholics and the Wedding Garment in the parables of Yeshu (Jesus). It is a subtle spiritual body woven from the subtle living portion of the Light Cross. It is not visible to the physical eye. 

                            http://essenes.net/new/manichinesetemple.htm


                            Parsifal has overcome the gently babbling daughters
                            Who'd distract him to desire; despite fleshly delight
                            That might lure the virgin youth, the temptation
                            To love their swelling breasts and gentle babble;

                            He has vanquished fair Womankind, of subtle heart,
                            Her tender arms outstretched and her throat pale;
                            From harrowing Hell, he now returns triumphant,
                            Bearing a heavy trophy in his boyish hands,

                            With the spear that pierced the Saviour's side!
                            He who healed the King shall be himself enthroned,
                            As priest-king and guardian of the sacred treasure.

                            In golden robe he worships that sign of grace,
                            The pure vessel in which shines the Holy Blood.
                            - And, o those children's voices singing in the dome!


                            Jean Delville, 1882

                            Bradford concludes;

                            Now in this fourth book of recollecting the dynamics of human  incarnations and the Group Soul underpinings of such an individuality as Parsifal, Parsifal is once more in the sanctity of a widow, Herzeleide.  Now for the fourth time we encounter this biography under the shadow of being known as a Son of the Widow.  But standing behind the dynamics of this will force of Parsifal, was the mighty depth of Mani himself.  Mani who digested Light and became Light's Ambassdor, just as Thomas Aquinas is known a "The Angelic Doctor".  

                             But here we connect to a deeper chapter for the forces existing in the etheric striving of rulership and Kingly power in Julian the Apostate and the goals, the hidden goal of Julian to unite the Sun mysteries of ancient Babylonian Sciences with the Christ Mysteries of human biography, were given into the Parsifal child, because Parsifal borrowed the etheric forces from Herzeleide to build his own new etheric forces.  Herzeleide was none other than Julian the Apostate and later Tycho De Brahe. New sun forces, Sun and Spiritual forces of courage and strength gathered from Julian and gathered from the star seed martyrdom of Mani himself and his own encounter with the Logos as the Youth of Nain.... brings Parsifal to the darkest time of Pagan and Christian development.

                            Mani full of conscious reworking the initial spiritual I AM event behind the veil of Isis, his  grasp of Light and Darkness as a massive struggle in the soul, around the years 869, the Grail and Parsifal and the families of those gathered around the Grail and The Fisher King, were all experiencing an incarnation wave that had brought them over from the events of Golgotha to the middle ages and to the events of Arthur and the Grail -   With a central theme on the Initiate who failed to ask the question the first time, because when he stumbled upon the Grail the first time, he had not yet ripened himself enough.  When he first stumbled upon the Grail.... you can see that as the Youth of Nain, he was unconscious and in a coma, outside of his normal earthly consciousness when he and his mother encountered Christ. Parsifal once more encountered the Grail mystery of Christ and the Angelic world, but could not utter the question. It stuck in his youthful throat and we can trace the reasons why it stuck there.

                            Therefore the first encounter with the Grail, Parsifal fails to ask the question.  On the second and tragic struggle through his biography with the Grail, he finally  managed to wrestle all those moral forces in his will down to the core through immense tragedy and suffering and managing to keep The Fisher King suffering under Scorpio and Saturn Karma with an intense genital wound that would not heal unless the Conscious Cognitive question could be asked and Spirit Self grasped by a mighty force of initiation that we see moved through at least FOUR BOOKS,  FOUR INCARNATIONS, four 71 year periods on Earth, rich with life experiences..  Four intense books that we have only the fragments of the mighty chapters that the Angels were kindling in the soul of Parsifal.  And yet the Grail is and Spirit Self is won at the darkest, darkest time of the extinction of the Angelic and Spiritual world workings, from the wisdom and recollection of human being on Earth.

                            Tycho de Brahe played an enormous role as did Aristotle/aka Schionatulander, who died in Parsifal's place, so that the Goetheanum and the Grail insights that Steiner brought humanity in the 20th century could be grounded and rooted, however difficult it still is to approach and find the immense mysteries of the Michael School when they are right in front of our noses. They are now open mysteries which each human soul is participating in.  And now we overcome the Church, materialistic science and Ahrimanic imaginations to hold fast to what the Angels were denied when the horrific blow against the Spiritual World rocked the foundations of wisdom and set humanity back centuries.... until the Michael School arrived and saved the day, and piped the clarion call in on loud speaker whispers.... that culture still cannot hear.

                            And this we call Whitsun and the time of the Ego and the pollination of the human i am with the spirit striving and insights of karma and reincarntion, studies.

                          • holderlin66
                            Rediscovering the hidden mysteries of Whitsun Bradford brought; Church and materialism has tainted and lost the intimate thread of the Spiritual World. NASA
                            Message 13 of 30 , Jun 2, 2007
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                              Rediscovering  the hidden mysteries of Whitsun

                              Bradford brought;

                              "Church and materialism has tainted and lost the intimate thread of the Spiritual World. NASA and abstract Klingsor, Star demons, left over from The Battle of the minstrels, now infect human consciousness with the materialism of the stars, horoscopes of abstraction, and false understanding of the true nature of science thinking and the stars now, through Klingsor and his false star demons, are called down against Wolfram Von Eschenbach. "

                              Parzfal

                              We caught the beast called Unicorn
                              That knows and loves a maiden best
                              And falls asleep upon her breast;
                              We took from underneath his horn
                              The splendid male carbuncle stone
                              Sparkling against the white skull-bone.

                              Wolfram von Eschenbach

                               

                              http://www.kulturwanderungen.de/bistum/wolframseschenbach/wolframs.htm

                              R.S. Karma studies and Whitsun mysteries;

                              "To complete the picture, I will add that it is clearly possible to see among those who fought hard against the dominion of Michael, and against whom the spirits of Michael had to proceed - it is clearly possible to see among them to this day, the very spirit-beings whom Klingsor conjured up in the Wartburg long ago against Wolfram von Eschenbach.

                               

                              "...But it is most significant of all to recognize this connection of abstract rationalism, abstractly clever thinking, with that which lives in the subconscious as darkened, veiled conceptions about the stars and the relationships to the stars. Such things, living in the subconscious, rise into the consciousness as abstract thoughts. We can study the karma of the cleverest men of the present day - cleverest in the materialist sense - and we find that as a rule in former earthly lives they had something to do with cosmological aberrations into the realms of black magic. This is a very significant connection..."

                               

                              " ...It will show you once more, how through the whole reality of modern time there has come forth a certain stream of spiritual life which makes it very difficult to approach with an open mind the science of the stars, and the science, too, of karma."  R.S. Karma Lectures Volume # IV.

                              http://tinyurl.com/38fzh5

                              From Bradford's essay on the Star forces and the Word:
                              "...Today we understand that matter responds to harmonic resonation and that matter is in fact enchanted light.

                              But there were dangers here as well. If it were possible to bring astral and star beings into the Word; into the structure of harmonics and weave them down into thought one could engage in White Magic, which could knowingly influence the word toward its best and most healing aspects; or its opposite; Black Magic, which would secretly imbue Words with dangerous astral beings and star influences. These could be magically enchanted into the very body of language and find new habitation through the thoughts of men.  As we can see from the Parsifal legends, Bach and the deed of Martin Luther, a great deal of good could come from the new etheric forces released through the conscious practice of the Word.

                               

                              "…on an evening in the summer of the year 1207 the minnesinger Klingsohr from Transylvania announced to the Landgrave Herman of Thuringia that that night a daughter had been born to the king of Hungary, who should be exalted in holiness and become the wife of Herman's son; and that in fact at that time the child Elizabeth was born, in Pressburg (Bratislava) or Saros-Patak, to Andrew II of Hungary and his wife, Gertrude of Andechs-Meran. Such an alliance as that "foretold" by Klingsohr had substantial political advantages to recommend it, and the baby Elizabeth was promised to Herman's eldest son. At about four years of age she was brought to the Thuringian court at the castle of the Wartburg, near Eisenach, there to be brought up with her future husband.

                               

                              "…The castle of the Wartburg was built on a steep rock, which the infirm and weak were not able to climb (the path was called "the kneesmasher"). St Elizabeth[1] therefore built a hospital at the foot of the rock for their reception, where she often fed them with her own hands, made their beds, and attended them even in the heat of summer when the place seemed insupportable. Helpless children, especially orphans, were provided for at her expense. She was the foundress of another hospital in which twenty-eight persons were constantly relieved, and she fed nine hundred daily at her gate, besides numbers in different parts of the dominions, so that the revenue in her hands was truly the patrimony of the distressed."[i]

                               

                              Wartburg Castle and the Battle of the Minstrels

                               

                              Klingsohr or Clingsor or Klingsor appears very clearly in the history of Wartburg Castle and in the Battle of the Minstrels. It is from this individual that we get links to the Clingsor of Sicily that so challenged the Grail knights and wounded the Grail King himself. Here in the area of Transylvania and Hungary we find the historical records of an active magician named Klingsohr. He was an Initiate who truly participated in the darker side of what happens when the Word is used with hypnotic conscious intent.

                               

                              Rudolf Steiner brought us the stunning results of the destiny of Strader in the Mystery Dramas, which revealed the damaging effects and dangers of enchanting false astral beings into the Word. Strader is hindered from bringing, Keely[2] like science and technology into matter. Sympathetic Vibratory Physics would advance humanities understanding of the Music of the Spheres, indicated by Kepler and harmonic resonation of the Devachanic star fields. However the intent of Klingsohr and his actions not only affected Strader but also entered into the magnetic thinking substance that lives in certain thought patterns of the brain. In these thought patterns certain negative astral entities could be brought down from the astral world of the stars into the body of language and thinking itself. Steiner speaks about the Battle of the Minstrels and Strader in his Karma lectures.

                               

                              "...Thus we have an event on earth in the Battle of the Minstrels on the Wartburg, not directly connected with continued stream of Michael.

                               

                              "Now who was there in the Battle of the Minstrels? (A.D. 1206) The greatest German poets were there together, vying one with another in their song. The story is well known - how the Minstrels fought for the fame of princes and for their own repute: Walter von der Vogelweide, Wolfram von Eschenbach, Reinmar von Zweter, and how there was one who stood against all others - Heinrich von Ofterdingen.

                               

                              "In this Heinrich von Ofterdingen I found the individuality that underlay the archetype of STRADER.

                               

                              "Thus it was Henrich von Ofterdingen. Now we must concentrate on this: Why did Heinrich von Ofterdingen meet with such difficulties when he had passed through the gate of death? Why did he have to go through the world of stars, as it were, darkened and befogged?

                               

                              "To answer this we must return to the story of the Battle of the Minstrels. Heinrich von Ofterdingen takes up the fight against the others. They have already called the hangman. He is to be hanged if he loses. He manages to withdraw; but, hoping to bring about a renewed contest, he summons the magician Klingsor from the land of Hungary. He did, in effect, bring the magician Klingsor from Hungary to Eisenach. A new Battle of the Wartburg ensues and Klingsor enters the lists for Heinrich von Ofterdingen. Klingsor himself SINGS against the others, but it is quite evident that he is not battling alone. He causes spiritual beings to battle with him. For instance, in order to do so, he makes a youth become possessed by a spiritual being - and then compels the youth to sing in his place. He calls still stronger spiritual forces into play in the Wartburg.

                               

                              "Over against all that comes from Klingsor's side stands Wolfram von Eschenbach. One of Klingsor's practices is to make one of his spiritual beings put Wolfram to the test, as to whether he is really a learned man. For Klingsor finds himself driven into a corner by Wolfram. In effect, Wolfram von Eschenbach, observing that some spiritual influence is at work, sings of the Holy Communion, the Transubstantiation, the Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and the spirit is obliged to depart, for he cannot bear it. There are indeed ` real realities ' underlying these things, if I may use the tautology."

                               

                              Steiner Karma lectures.

                               

                              Wolfram von Eschenbach was no match for Klingsohr. However in the heart of the young poet Eschenbach was the tale, the historical record of the true Parsifal Initiation of 848. It is through Eschenbach, who is facing the Black Magician Klingsohr that we salvage one of the greatest tales ever given to humanity. But Klingsohr doesn't work for the Grail. He is working against the Grail. Klingsohr has taken a great interest in interfering with what humanity might gain from the great Grail legend incubating within Eschenbach. We don't know how the magician named, Klingsohr, ends up echoing down the halls of time but it appears to be part of the fully penetrated astral and etheric form of some mighty initiate that passes his psyche and learning down through a consolidated transference of abilities.

                              Morris (William), Vision of the Holy Grail, 1890

                              Robert Powell offers some insights into the continuing ripples of song that swelled around the great hidden mystery of Parsival or Parsifal and Christ.

                               

                              "The Grail events described by Wolfram are not fiction, but historical fact. A highly spiritual human being, known as Parzival, through his path in life underwent an initiation, culminating on Whit Sunday in 848 in his attainment of the Grail, an experience of union with the Holy Spirit. The Parzival epic is an account of Christian initiation, which proceeds in the stream of life itself. The simultaneous occurrence of the  `star of Munsalvaesche ', the great conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter in Pisces, indicates that the Christian initiation, the attainment of the Holy Grail, is also a cosmic event. The Grail Initiate lives in harmony with the cosmos, and his earthly destiny unfolds in accordance with this cosmic harmony.

                               

                              "...So we see how what the Christ inaugurated as the Cosmic Spiritual Communion of mankind began to be realized in the Grail movement, as Parzival and others who searched for the Grail gradually became conscious of who Christ Jesus is, and what His death and resurrection signify for humanity."

                               

                              When we examine the bountiful changes that unfolded from a specific location where Speech and Poetry was called to a specific challenge where the word and the intimate tones of Speech were themselves challenged we discover several interesting things. We see how the very artistic activity practiced in Wartburg created the potential cultural changes that an individuality like Martin Luther brought into the social, political and religious life of humanity. We see how a stream of starry music, transformed through the Bach family, entered culture and transformed it. We observe that the profound social compassion of Elizabeth unites with the new starry compassion of the heart and heart thinking in a truly healing and Christian way. Steiner unveils the mystery of just what astral forces were hovering around the incarnation of the individuality of Elizabeth and what opposing forces were called into play in an attempt to block the unfolding of this meaningful event.

                               

                              "In the eleventh, twelfth, thirteenth and fourteenth centuries replicas of the astral body of Jesus of Nazareth were woven into other human beings when their karma so permitted and they were sufficiently mature. Francis of Assisi, Elisabeth of Thüringen, for example, and others too, bore within them a replica of the astral body of Jesus of Nazareth. Without this knowledge, the lives of Francis of Assisi and Elisabeth of Thüringen are unintelligible to us. Everything that seems so strange to-day in the life of Francis of Assisi is because the `I' was the human `I' of that individuality; but the humility, the devoutness and the fervor we so admire in him are due to the fact that a replica of the astral body of Jesus of Nazareth was woven into his own astral body. And it was so in the case of many other personalities living at that time. When we know this, they become examples for us. How can anyone who really studies the matter understand the life of Elisabeth of Thüringen if he does not know that a replica of the astral body of Jesus of Nazareth was woven into her? And very many were called in this way by the on working Christ Power to bear this mighty Impulse forward to posterity." [ii]

                               

                              When we consider artistic work, Speech and Eurythmy, performed at Schools and cultural centers we begin to glimmer a marvelous resonation between the new mysteries of the word that also have the potential of seeding, fostering and nurturing environmental, social and religious changes. The new mysteries of the Word have been wrought with conscious perception of language. The tonal forces of Speech, the individual sounds and the visible expressions of the laws of language are a new revelation on the stages of many cultural centers around the globe.

                               

                              The Beings of the word and the starry ensouled sounds that merge together in the poetry, music and symphonies of Eurythmy performances act as an antidote to what Klingsohr intended. The new Word mysteries and the individual sounds apprehended by Steiner's research rebuild the bridge to the elemental world of nature, the etheric world and unite the Logos with the thinking forces of human speech. When we observe such cultural moments of artistic clarity we are witnessing the redemption of nature and human thinking.

                               

                              Klingsohr's intention was to keep humanity from becoming aware of the new etheric and astral forces that Christ continues to awaken and bestow on humanity. At Klingsohr's command a powerful star call went out for beings to counteract and hinder the thinking that Wolfram von Eschenbach was holding onto with his great work of Parsifal. Klingsohr had the ability to call down retarded astral forces into the very elemental world surrounding the Castle at Wartburg. In his anti-Grail school the whole mythos of Transylvania stood opposed to the Word forces indicated by the John Gospel.

                               

                              Dangerous astral beings that hide in the errors of human thinking, were unfolded with all the force of a conscious Black Magician, and called upon to re-energize themselves and stream down into the wills and thinking of men. Steiner found that such forces did indeed enter under the occult influences of Klingsohr. We may observe these anti-Grail influences in many of the current ideas that permeate our sciences today. We may certainly encounter these ideas in the reverse transubstantiation myths that Transylvania is famous for. But Steiner describes these anti-effects of the Word in a unique way.

                               

                              "To complete the picture, I will add that it is clearly possible to see among those who fought hard against the dominion of Michael, and against whom the spirits of Michael had to proceed - it is clearly possible to see among them to this day, the very spirit-beings whom Klingsor conjured up in the Wartburg long ago against Wolfram von Eschenbach.

                               

                              "...But it is most significant of all to recognize this connection of abstract rationalism, abstractly clever thinking, with that which lives in the subconscious as darkened, veiled conceptions about the stars and the relationships to the stars. Such things, living in the subconscious, rise into the consciousness as abstract thoughts. We can study the karma of the cleverest men of the present day - cleverest in the materialist sense - and we find that as a rule in former earthly lives they had something to do with cosmological aberrations into the realms of black magic. This is a very significant connection..."

                               

                              " ...It will show you once more, how through the whole reality of modern time there has come forth a certain stream of spiritual life which makes it very difficult to approach with an open mind the science of the stars, and the science, too, of karma."  R.S. Karma Lectures Volume # IV.

                              http://tinyurl.com/3d2npw


                              [1] Since Elizabeth was hovering in incarnation, just as these tournaments were taking place, we are privy to an understanding of just what powerful future bearing starry forces were gathering in a soul who would carry new etheric and astral social forces into her destiny. We also observe that unique spiritual influences and a pitched battle unfolded around the embryonic development of this individuality.

                              [2] http://www.svpvril.com/fortylaw.html

                            • isenhart7
                              If inconsistency is the heart s neighbor, the soul will not fail to find it bitter. Blame and praise alike befall when a dauntless man s spirit is
                              Message 14 of 30 , Jun 3, 2007
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                                "If inconsistency is the heart's neighbor, the soul will not fail to
                                find it bitter. Blame and praise alike befall when a dauntless man's
                                spirit is black-and-white-mixed like a magpie's plumage. Yet he may see
                                blessedness after all, for both colors have a share in him, the color
                                of heaven and the color of hell. Inconsistency's companian is all black
                                and takes on the hue of darkness, while he of steadfast thoughts clings
                                to white."
                              • Stephen Hale
                                Following the other way is so bleak and miserable and full of pain and resistance. Unless you re a sex counselor on McNeil Island. We go 24/7. Steve
                                Message 15 of 30 , Jun 6, 2007
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                                  "Following the other way is so bleak and miserable and full of pain
                                  and resistance."

                                  Unless you're a sex counselor on McNeil Island. We go 24/7.

                                  Steve
                                • Mark Willan
                                  Hi Apologies to everyone for my non-participation during extended leave of internet-free absence. There are only one oe two aspects I wish to add to he review
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Jun 9, 2007
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                                    Hi

                                    Apologies to everyone for my non-participation during extended leave of internet-free absence.

                                    There are only one oe two aspects I wish to add to he review carried out on list of some of the topics that have most deeply affected me in my inner life - ie the Wortk of the Angels and the whole Grail saga.

                                    What I wish to add (becasue it is not widely accessible to others,) is contained in the attachment, which is my translation of Scaligero's contribution to these very topics, and which are dirctly relevant here.

                                    I would just highlight the note of hope in that the etheric Christ, as master of destiny, is creating a new form of human love which transcends the baser form that Ahriman is working on, and giving it to mankind through the forces that are at work when we fall in love - in fact the work is in many ways a study of the state of grace we call being in love, from the viewpoint of spiritual science.

                                    I give it as an attachment, to avoid overloading by flowing the text into this post.

                                    Bless you all.

                                    Mark






                                    Mark Willan

                                    21 Balmoral Park
                                    #02-14 Pïnewood Gardens
                                    Singapore 259850

                                    Tel: +65 64040702
                                    Mob: +65 92305170


                                  • holderlin66
                                    http://youtube.com/watch?v=IWfIhFhelm8&mode=related&search=
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Jun 10, 2007
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                                    • isenhart7
                                      All rivers are not equal, as far as I know, but every square inch of the Earth is a drainage area.
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Jun 10, 2007
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                                        All rivers are not equal, as far as I know, but every square inch of
                                        the Earth is a drainage area.

                                        http://www.tremolocowboys.com/Lyrics_J/Joni_Mitchell_Lyrics/Both_Sides_N
                                        ow_Song_Lyrics.html
                                      • holderlin66
                                        ZEITGEIST We discover the word ZEITGEIST popping up here and there. It refers to the activity and press of Michael Intelligence and the crisis points where the
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Jun 11, 2007
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                                          ZEITGEIST

                                          We discover the word ZEITGEIST popping up here and there. It refers to the activity and press of Michael Intelligence and the crisis points where the Time Spirit Michael clashes with Ahrimanic thrusts.  The Fall of the British empire, rose again like a phoenix from the artistic work of the fab four. Four chambered heart, four directions in space, four cornered egyptian pyramid, Four cardinal signs, four gospels, R.STeiner's Fifth Gospel for the Fifth Epoch, The four Mark, John, Matthew, Luke....which calls down the star anchor points known as Mark the Lion; John the Eagle or Scorpio; Luke the bull; and Matthew the water bearer....But we lived through, at least some of us have lived through a crowning surge of Woodstockian-Beatles and British, English and American etheric surge of Joy and hyper Lucifer/Michael creativity that earned the word ZEITGEIST from this particular researcher.

                                          The grand Luciferic/Michael cultural surge has brought us right around on the pendulum to another cycle of Sorathian/Orwellian Fascism with torture as American policy. Not enough of those of us who had been in that particular surge, made there way to the pure Michael insight of what a ZEITGEIST is in the scheme of the Angels.

                                          Our very own Angels placed us in various geographic and language and thinking regions over the earth to promote our karma and thought forces to rise.  But how many, show me your hands, how many out there really grasp Angel-Archangel and Archai activities in relation to human events? Ya, right!  Time Spirits and the present Michael force in human cosmopolitan thinking allows Spiritual Science to be robed in Light and leads to the secret of our time, the Etheric Christ Being. And the generation that brought the Beatles were also privy to that immense Spiritual world celebration of the rise of the Etheric Christ and just as horrifically reflected on Earth, prior to the incarnations that felt such celebration in the heavens, the nuclear bomb on Earth smudged and stained human senses by celebrating on Earth, the dawn of the Ahrimanic Sun.   Isn't this all touching?  Aren't you moved to see how immense joy was celebrated in a wave of a generation riding on Luciferic and Michael forces... and how few, how skimpy and few stayed the course to come towards some deeper conscious and cognitive grasp of the workings of the actual ZEITGEISTS?

                                          "On both sides of the Sgt. Pepper's divide—hyperbolically pro and knee-jerk con—there is a tendency to treat the album as an icon stripped of historical peculiarity, floating outside of time and place. Yet Sgt. Pepper's is the definitive Beatles record not necessarily because it contains their best music, but because it captures them at their ZEITGEIST-commandeering peak: It is the Beatles album of, and about, history's Beatles Moment."

                                          http://www.slate.com/id/2167998/nav/tap1/

                                          Bradford brought;

                                          "Oh yes, then we hear with real ears, not polluted ears what John Lennon of the Beatles tried to say with his "IMAGINE" before he was murdered.  Yes we come close in cultural life to grasp the message with our intuitions and we understand our fellow human beings efforts, don't we? "

                                          Smashing Pumpkins, Obey Giant Illustrator Fairey Collaborate for

                                        • Gloria
                                          http://youtube.com/watch?v=HCkYfYa8ePI ... Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Jun 11, 2007
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                                            http://youtube.com/watch?v=HCkYfYa8ePI


                                            Building a website is a piece of cake.
                                            Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
                                          • Gloria
                                            http://youtube.com/watch?v=n7aMGo_FSuo holderlin66 wrote:
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Jun 11, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              http://youtube.com/watch?v=n7aMGo_FSuo

                                              holderlin66 <holderlin66@...> wrote:


                                              Don't pick lemons.
                                              See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                                            • isenhart7
                                              ... Dear Mark, My apologies if you get this request twice. I sent it earlier today and then unsent because it had (gasp) a typo in it. Anyway, I could not open
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Jun 11, 2007
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                                                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Mark Willan <mwillan@...> wrote:

                                                > I give it as an attachment, to avoid overloading by flowing the text
                                                > into this post.

                                                Dear Mark,

                                                My apologies if you get this request twice. I sent it earlier today and
                                                then unsent because it had (gasp) a typo in it. Anyway, I could not
                                                open your attachment and wonder if you could place your document in the
                                                file section of the list? Thanks, Val
                                              • isenhart7
                                                ... wrote: Another excellent handle if you ask me! I was contemplating signing up for a list the other day and all I could think
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Jun 12, 2007
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "whitelunarworldbridger"
                                                  <whitelunarworldbridger@...> wrote:


                                                  Another excellent handle if you ask me! I was contemplating signing
                                                  up for a list the other day and all I could think of was "XYZ" which
                                                  is an acronym for examine your zipper which isn't anywhere near as
                                                  good as whitelunarworldbridger and just goes to show that my mind is
                                                  basically in the gutter.

                                                  > > So I was lying in bed thinking away that you really have trained
                                                  > your cobra very well. I actually prefer holderlin and your future
                                                  > self. Mmm Bradford is another darth vader i think, besides you are
                                                  > 50 /50.. Yes might be you belong to soradt but might be not. Also
                                                  > you would do well to read Llyall watson and Gifts of unknown
                                                  > things.. Mmm its my advice :)

                                                  I have read Watson and, on a good day, even know the difference
                                                  between mediating and meditating but my question is-if our beloved
                                                  Bradford is a Darth Vader figure then who will play Obi-Wan-Kenobi?
                                                  Or-oh be one can no be-a chiasmus which Rene Querido was very fond of
                                                  using. (see, I don't just make this stuff up as I go along.)Val
                                                • Stephen Hale
                                                  ... refers to ... points ... Fall ... work ... four ... Mark ... This morning I was thinking about the four gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Actually,
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Jun 12, 2007
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                                    <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > ZEITGEIST

                                                    > We discover the word ZEITGEIST popping up here and there. It
                                                    refers to
                                                    > the activity and press of Michael Intelligence and the crisis
                                                    points
                                                    > where the Time Spirit Michael clashes with Ahrimanic thrusts. The
                                                    Fall
                                                    > of the British empire, rose again like a phoenix from the artistic
                                                    work
                                                    > of the fab four. Four chambered heart, four directions in space,
                                                    four
                                                    > cornered egyptian pyramid, Four cardinal signs, four gospels,
                                                    > R.STeiner's Fifth Gospel for the Fifth Epoch, The four Mark, John,
                                                    > Matthew, Luke....which calls down the star anchor points known as
                                                    Mark
                                                    > the Lion; John the Eagle or Scorpio; Luke the bull; and Matthew the
                                                    > water bearer....

                                                    This morning I was thinking about the four gospels: Matthew, Mark,
                                                    Luke and John. Actually, Mark comes before Matthew's gospel, but
                                                    because the Matthew gospel begins with words related to the
                                                    geneaology of Jesus, and Mark's begins simply with the words: "The
                                                    beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ...", Matthew's is considered
                                                    first because of this trace of generations.

                                                    Now, what has always interested me is why Steiner gave his gospel
                                                    lectures in reverse order: John, Luke, Matthew, Mark. And I have
                                                    discovered that it was for a very important reason; a reason that
                                                    would, in fact, serve to lay the foundation stone of the first
                                                    Goetheanum, which was called the Johannesbau at the time, in
                                                    Spetember of 1913. It is important to know that the foundation
                                                    stone of the Anthroposophical Society of 1913 was laid with two
                                                    things: 1) a copper dodecahedron, and 2) The Fifth Gospel.

                                                    When the four gospels were first written down, giving an account of
                                                    the direct experience of Christ on earth by those closely associated
                                                    to this Being, and those events which occurred at the mid-point of
                                                    earth evolution, it was also known by them, and even to modern
                                                    scholars of the gospels, that an originating gospel of these events
                                                    surrounding Christ's incarnation on earth also existed; one that
                                                    preceded the actual incarnation. Thus, a supersensible gospel
                                                    existed that modern scholars called, the "Q" gospel. And, Matthew's
                                                    gospel is taken from this "Q" as its primary source for this
                                                    geneaological trace of the generations leading down to the birth of
                                                    Jesus.

                                                    As we know, the lectures that comprise, The Fifth Gospel, which were
                                                    given just after the completion of Michelmas, and the laying of the
                                                    foundation stone of the Anthroposophical Society in 1913, give us
                                                    something of this original supersensible gospel, called the 'Q' by
                                                    scholars, but in a form that links us throughout to the true and
                                                    esoteric content of the lectures given from 1908 until 1912, in
                                                    which the four gospels are illuminated in various ways as to their
                                                    real meaning for what had to occur at the mid-point of earth
                                                    evolution.

                                                    So, I have been able to determine something of importance with
                                                    regard to this method of reverse description of the gospels and
                                                    their content. First, it leads to the The Fifth Gospel itself,
                                                    which needs the intense effort of exploration and anaylsis of the
                                                    four, and by doing them in reverse it created the catalyst necessary
                                                    to be able to enter the supersensible gospel (Q) itself; the one
                                                    that preceded the four that were brought before external history.

                                                    And therefore, something quite supersensible, yet quite meant for
                                                    perceptible attainment was also planted at that time, in the same
                                                    way that the copper dodecahedron was planted into the ground. But
                                                    rather than the ground of the earth, it was the ground of the heart
                                                    that received this implanting. What was once able to be known by
                                                    outer instruments worn on the breastplate, and thus could give a
                                                    gospel of Christ even before the actual being and events took place,
                                                    had now been planted in the heart through the very mechanism of the
                                                    approach to The Fifth Gospel.

                                                    The Urim and the Thummin now reside in the heart as instruments that
                                                    need to be rubbed together through the power of spiritual science.

                                                    Steve
                                                  • carol
                                                    This morning I was thinking about the four gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Actually, Mark comes before Matthew s gospel,.. …Now, what has always
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Jun 13, 2007
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                                                      "This morning I was thinking about the four gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Actually, Mark comes before Matthew's gospel,..

                                                       

                                                      …Now, what has always interested me is why Steiner gave his gospel lectures in reverse order: John, Luke, Matthew, Mark. And I have discovered that it was for a very important reason; a reason that would, in fact, serve to lay the foundation stone of the first Goetheanum…"

                                                       

                                                      I noticed the following classification in reference to the gospels coming from R Steiner in a written  response where he addresses certain questions which  Frau von Moltke asked following the 31 July l917 lecutre– The Karma of Materialism, Lecture 1, `Forgotten aspects of Cultural Spiritual Life' concerning agrarian society and industrial man.

                                                       

                                                      The first line I don't quite understand.

                                                       

                                                      "Beginning (?) August 1917 ( Berlin )  (maybe his handwriting wasn't clear)

                                                      Agrarianism: Luke

                                                      Industry and Urbanism: Mathew

                                                      Military: Mark

                                                      Priesthood: John"

                                                       

                                                      (From Light for the New Millennium, Rudolf Steiner Press, London 1997)

                                                       

                                                      Though this is the order they appear in print, it seems natural to me that if one where to reflect  and in a certain sense weigh in on the materialistic and spiritual essences behind these classifications and then proceed to select the most outwardly (materialistic) on one side, and  the most inwardly (spiritual)  to at the other,  with which of the 2 in between lean more to one than the other, then one might easily find the following order:  Military: Mark,  Industry and Urbanism: Mathew, Agrarianism: Luke,  Priesthood: John.  

                                                       

                                                      And this line up confirms the gospel order cited above.

                                                       

                                                      But I can't quite harmonize within myself the contents of what I discovered above and what Bradford brought cited below.  Though comically,  they definitely represent the reverse of how they are now presented.   Bradford 's reference reaching high above (the astral),  and what I presented reaching way below (earthly life).

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      "Four chambered heart, four directions in space, four cornered egyptian pyramid, Four cardinal signs, four gospels, R.STeiner's Fifth Gospel for the Fifth Epoch, The four Mark, John,
                                                      Matthew, Luke....which calls down the star anchor points known as Mark the Lion; John the Eagle or Scorpio; Luke the bull; and Matthew the water bearer...."

                                                       

                                                      Carol

                                                       


                                                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                                      > holderlin66@ wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > ZEITGEIST
                                                      >
                                                      > > We discover the word ZEITGEIST popping up here and there. It
                                                      > refers to
                                                      > > the activity and press of Michael Intelligence and the crisis
                                                      > points
                                                      > > where the Time Spirit Michael clashes with Ahrimanic thrusts. The
                                                      > Fall
                                                      > > of the British empire, rose again like a phoenix from the artistic
                                                      > work
                                                      > > of the fab four. Four chambered heart, four directions in space,
                                                      > four
                                                      > > cornered egyptian pyramid, Four cardinal signs, four gospels,
                                                      > > R.STeiner's Fifth Gospel for the Fifth Epoch, The four Mark, John,
                                                      > > Matthew, Luke....which calls down the star anchor points known as
                                                      > Mark
                                                      > > the Lion; John the Eagle or Scorpio; Luke the bull; and Matthew the
                                                      > > water bearer....
                                                      >
                                                      > This morning I was thinking about the four gospels: Matthew, Mark,
                                                      > Luke and John. Actually, Mark comes before Matthew's gospel, but
                                                      > because the Matthew gospel begins with words related to the
                                                      > geneaology of Jesus, and Mark's begins simply with the words: "The
                                                      > beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ...", Matthew's is considered
                                                      > first because of this trace of generations.
                                                      >
                                                      > Now, what has always interested me is why Steiner gave his gospel
                                                      > lectures in reverse order: John, Luke, Matthew, Mark. And I have
                                                      > discovered that it was for a very important reason; a reason that
                                                      > would, in fact, serve to lay the foundation stone of the first
                                                      > Goetheanum, which was called the Johannesbau at the time, in
                                                      > Spetember of 1913. It is important to know that the foundation
                                                      > stone of the Anthroposophical Society of 1913 was laid with two
                                                      > things: 1) a copper dodecahedron, and 2) The Fifth Gospel.
                                                      >
                                                      > When the four gospels were first written down, giving an account of
                                                      > the direct experience of Christ on earth by those closely associated
                                                      > to this Being, and those events which occurred at the mid-point of
                                                      > earth evolution, it was also known by them, and even to modern
                                                      > scholars of the gospels, that an originating gospel of these events
                                                      > surrounding Christ's incarnation on earth also existed; one that
                                                      > preceded the actual incarnation. Thus, a supersensible gospel
                                                      > existed that modern scholars called, the "Q" gospel. And, Matthew's
                                                      > gospel is taken from this "Q" as its primary source for this
                                                      > geneaological trace of the generations leading down to the birth of
                                                      > Jesus.
                                                      >
                                                      > As we know, the lectures that comprise, The Fifth Gospel, which were
                                                      > given just after the completion of Michelmas, and the laying of the
                                                      > foundation stone of the Anthroposophical Society in 1913, give us
                                                      > something of this original supersensible gospel, called the 'Q' by
                                                      > scholars, but in a form that links us throughout to the true and
                                                      > esoteric content of the lectures given from 1908 until 1912, in
                                                      > which the four gospels are illuminated in various ways as to their
                                                      > real meaning for what had to occur at the mid-point of earth
                                                      > evolution.
                                                      >
                                                      > So, I have been able to determine something of importance with
                                                      > regard to this method of reverse description of the gospels and
                                                      > their content. First, it leads to the The Fifth Gospel itself,
                                                      > which needs the intense effort of exploration and anaylsis of the
                                                      > four, and by doing them in reverse it created the catalyst necessary
                                                      > to be able to enter the supersensible gospel (Q) itself; the one
                                                      > that preceded the four that were brought before external history.
                                                      >
                                                      > And therefore, something quite supersensible, yet quite meant for
                                                      > perceptible attainment was also planted at that time, in the same
                                                      > way that the copper dodecahedron was planted into the ground. But
                                                      > rather than the ground of the earth, it was the ground of the heart
                                                      > that received this implanting. What was once able to be known by
                                                      > outer instruments worn on the breastplate, and thus could give a
                                                      > gospel of Christ even before the actual being and events took place,
                                                      > had now been planted in the heart through the very mechanism of the
                                                      > approach to The Fifth Gospel.
                                                      >
                                                      > The Urim and the Thummin now reside in the heart as instruments that
                                                      > need to be rubbed together through the power of spiritual science.
                                                      >
                                                      > Steve
                                                      >

                                                    • holderlin66
                                                      This morning I was thinking about the four gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Actually, Mark comes before Matthew s gospel,.. …Now, what has always
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Jun 13, 2007
                                                      • 0 Attachment

                                                        "This morning I was thinking about the four gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Actually, Mark comes before Matthew's gospel,..

                                                        …Now, what has always interested me is why Steiner gave his gospel lectures in reverse order: John, Luke, Matthew, Mark. And I have discovered that it was for a very important reason; a reason that would, in fact, serve to lay the foundation stone of the first Goetheanum…"

                                                        I noticed the following classification in reference to the gospels coming from R Steiner in a written  response where he addresses certain questions which  Frau von Moltke asked following the 31 July l917 lecutre– The Karma of Materialism, Lecture 1, `Forgotten aspects of Cultural Spiritual Life' concerning agrarian society and industrial man.

                                                        The first line I don't quite understand.

                                                        "Beginning (?) August 1917 ( Berlin )  (maybe his handwriting wasn't clear)

                                                        Agrarianism: Luke

                                                        Industry and Urbanism: Mathew

                                                        Military: Mark

                                                        Priesthood: John"

                                                        (From Light for the New Millennium, Rudolf Steiner Press, London 1997)

                                                        Though this is the order they appear in print, it seems natural to me that if one where to reflect  and in a certain sense weigh in on the materialistic and spiritual essences behind these classifications and then proceed to select the most outwardly (materialistic) on one side, and  the most inwardly (spiritual)  to at the other,  with which of the 2 in between lean more to one than the other, then one might easily find the following order:  Military: Mark,  Industry and Urbanism: Mathew, Agrarianism: Luke,  Priesthood: John.  

                                                        And this line up confirms the gospel order cited above.

                                                        But I can't quite harmonize within myself the contents of what I discovered above and what Bradford brought cited below.  Though comically,  they definitely represent the reverse of how they are now presented.   Bradford 's reference reaching high above (the astral),  and what I presented reaching way below (earthly life).

                                                        "Four chambered heart, four directions in space, four cornered egyptian pyramid, Four cardinal signs, four gospels, R.STeiner's Fifth Gospel for the Fifth Epoch, The four Mark, John,
                                                        Matthew, Luke....which calls down the star anchor points known as Mark the Lion; John the Eagle or Scorpio; Luke the bull; and Matthew the water bearer...."

                                                        Carol

                                                      • Stephen Hale
                                                        ... wrote: The Urim and the Thummin now reside in the heart as instruments that need to be rubbed together through the power of spiritual science. It was
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Jun 13, 2007
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                                                          wrote:

                                                          "The Urim and the Thummin now reside in the heart as instruments that
                                                          need to be rubbed together through the power of spiritual science."

                                                          It was once possible for Hebrew priests to use these objects that
                                                          symbolized divine love and divine wisdom to reveal the secrets of the
                                                          imperishable record of truth held secure by the etheric world. Even
                                                          the three wise men of the east who followed the majestic star, knowing
                                                          that it would lead them to the place where the King of the Jews lived,
                                                          had to ask King Herod for a reading out of this record in order to find
                                                          the home where the two-year old boy lived. And Herod consulted his
                                                          priests, who gave Bethlehem as the place.

                                                          Steve
                                                        • Mark Willan
                                                          Now done. Thanks Mark
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Jun 14, 2007
                                                          • 0 Attachment
                                                            Now done.

                                                            Thanks

                                                            Mark

                                                            On 12 Jun 2007, at 7:22 AM, isenhart7 wrote:

                                                            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Mark Willan <mwillan@...> wrote:

                                                            > I give it as an attachment, to avoid overloading by flowing the text
                                                            > into this post.

                                                            Dear Mark,

                                                            My apologies if you get this request twice. I sent it earlier today and
                                                            then unsent because it had (gasp) a typo in it. Anyway, I could not
                                                            open your attachment and wonder if you could place your document in the
                                                            file section of the list? Thanks, Val


                                                          • Stephen Hale
                                                            ... You know Mark, when you reiterate the thread on thinking, and how you found it so disappointing, and then conclude with words concerning writing you
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Jun 14, 2007
                                                            • 0 Attachment
                                                              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Mark Willan <mwillan@...>
                                                              wrote:
                                                              >
                                                              > Now done.
                                                              >
                                                              > Thanks
                                                              >
                                                              > Mark

                                                              You know Mark, when you reiterate the thread on thinking, and how
                                                              you found it so disappointing, and then conclude with words
                                                              concerning writing you privately for your guidance on the path that
                                                              rends the veil, I find it somewhat ingenuous; somewhat like an
                                                              agenda for the likes of Scaligero, who would espouse the six
                                                              exercises without exclusion. But here's the rub: earth evolution
                                                              is in conflict. This means souls have to fight a battle against
                                                              Soradt. Practising the six exercises certainly absolves this
                                                              battle, yet it still must be fought. Maybe that is why Michael is
                                                              regent today.

                                                              I certainly don't discount the six exercises of KOHW, but if it
                                                              would make me lax in fighting Soradt, I would have to put it off
                                                              until the revolution was won.

                                                              Steve
                                                            • holderlin66
                                                              Previously bradford brought; We also add the aspect that in order to understand how the Pyramid in Space, in geographic and accurate space was used as a
                                                              Message 30 of 30 , Aug 24, 2007
                                                              • 0 Attachment

                                                                Previously bradford brought;
                                                                "We also add the aspect that in order to understand how the Pyramid in Space, in geographic and accurate space was used as a launch point into the tip of the Pyramid which became what we call the tunnel in NDE or Near Death Experience or we can easily say, novice and initiation, pre-christ hierophant out of the body controlled experience... part of the additional studies we could undertake from the ground work of Christianity as Mystical Fact. You are required to imagine how the accurate spacial forces created out of the Pyramid launched the soul and the star boat out into the astral world of the stars after death....  These realities were part of the Science of the soul of the Egyptian period that now rumbles under Americanism and the Fifth Epoch. And how these spatial mathematical forces of the Pyramid rebounded on the soul, due to the consturction of the Pyramid, has become in the Fifth Epoch our ability to launch and drive ourselves out beyond the shores of gravity with force but no cognition. "

                                                                Nasa and materialism and the materialistic view that everyone has of the stars, and the complete lack of interest in the vast astral aspect of the stars, shows that everyone carries this deep aversion to the Science of the Spirit, but the obvious error remains buried due in part to the vast Ahrimanic double that conspires to exclude the intimacies of initiation experience. Christianity as Mystical fact is still Fact and matter and the empty tomb remains Ahriman's most annoying insult. Aversion to the Christ Event is twisted in the knots of medical intelligence and base lies are brought through education regarding the nature of the human being and the higher devachan faculties we own. Egypt is reduced to some silly new age simplicity and the bridge between Spiritual Science and the denials of materialistic science cross right through, crash right through the human heart

                                                                  

                                                                http://sedna.no.sapo.pt/death_scresearch/pdf_docs/sdm_nde.pdf

                                                                "During a night shift an ambulance brings in a 44-year-old cyanotic, comatose man into the coronary care unit. He had been found about an hour before in a meadow by passers-by. After admission, he receives artificial respiration without intubation, while heart massage and defibrillation are also applied. When we want to intubate the patient, he turns out to have dentures in his mouth. I remove these upper dentures and put them onto the `crash car'. Meanwhile, we continue extensive CPR. After about an hour and a half the patient has sufficient heart rhythm and blood pressure, but he is still ventilated and intubated, and he is still comatose. He is transferred to the intensive care unit to continue the necessary artificial respiration. Only after more than a week do I meet again with the patient, who is by now back on the cardiac ward. I distribute his medication. The moment he sees me he says: `Oh, that nurse knows where my dentures are'. I am very surprised. Then he elucidates: `Yes, you were there when I was brought into hospital and you took my dentures out of my mouth and put them onto that car, it had all these bottles on it and there was this sliding drawer underneath and there you put my teeth.' I was especially amazed because I remembered this happening while the man was in deep coma and in the process of CPR. When I asked further, it appeared the man had seen himself lying in bed, that he had perceived from above how nurses and doctors had been busy with CPR. He was also able to describe correctly and in detail the small room in which he had been resuscitated as well as the appearance of those present like myself. At the time that he observed the situation he had been very much afraid that we would stop CPR and that he would die. And it is true that we had been very negative about the patient's prognosis due to his very poor medical condition when admitted. The patient tells me that he desperately and unsuccessfully tried to make it clear to us that he was still alive and that we should continue CPR. He is deeply impressed by his experience and says he is no longer afraid of death. 4 weeks later he left hospital as a healthy man."

                                                                "…No medical, pharmacological, or psychological factor affected the frequency of the experience. People younger than 60 years had NDE more often than older people, and women, who were significantly older than men, had more frequent deep experiences than men."

                                                                http://www.noetic.org/publications/review/issue61/r61_Grossman.html

                                                                "One of my earliest encounters with this kind of academic irrationality occurred more than twenty years ago. I was devouring everything on the near-death experience I could get my hands on, and eager to share what I was discovering with colleagues. It was unbelievable to me how dismissive they were of the evidence. "Drug-induced hallucinations," "last gasp of a dying brain," and "people see what they want to see" were some of the more commonly used phrases. One conversation in particular caused me to see more clearly the fundamental irrationality of academics with respect to evidence against materialism. I asked, "What about people who accurately report the details of their operation?"

                                                                "Oh," came the reply, "they probably just subconsciously heard the conversation in the operating room, and their brain subconsciously transposed the audio information into a visual format."

                                                                "Well," I responded, "what about cases where people report veridical perception of events remote from their body?"

                                                                "Oh, that's just a coincidence or a lucky guess."

                                                                Exasperated, I asked, "What will it take, short of having a near-death experience yourself, to convince you that it's real?"

                                                                Why NDE Evidence is Ignored

                                                                Resistance to paradigm change: Ever since the publication of Thomas Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, the concept of a paradigm has been a familiar, useful, albeit sometimes controversial, tool. The concept of a paradigm helps us considerably in understanding scientific revolutions, when dramatic changes occur involving deep-rooted assumptions about how things are or how things must be. All academics matriculate within the context of a specific discipline that trains its practitioners to think in terms of the currently operating paradigm. Once the operating paradigm has been internalized in the mind of the individual, other competing paradigms appear wrong and/or foolish.

                                                                To one who has internalized a paradigm, this way of approaching things appears to be right, reasonable, objective, and sensible. The paradigm itself is rarely questioned. It is the very water in which the academic philosopher swims, which is why it is so difficult for one who is immersed in the paradigm to see it as a paradigm, rather than as the way things "must be." Someone operating out of a different paradigm appears to be out of touch with reality, irrational, and so on.

                                                                Intellectual arrogance: In addition to the normal kind of resistance with which any paradigm defends itself against change, the atheist paradigm of academia generally, and philosophy in particular, feels especially threatened by the findings of paranormal research. This is because intellectuals like to regard themselves as the highest manifestation of intelligence on the planet, if not in the universe. Embracing an evolutionary model according to which consciousness is correlated with brain development, intellectuals regard the human brain as the highest development of evolutionary forces, and an educated human brain as the highest of the high. Intellectuals like to feel that they are riding atop the crest of the wave of evolution.

                                                                This intellectual smugness is greatly threatened by paranormal research, especially the NDE, the results of which strongly suggest (I am tempted to say "clearly show") that the human intellect is by no means the highest form of intelligence. The "Being of Light" in many NDEs is often described as infinite intelligence and love; moreover, intermediate between humans and God there appear to be many forms of non-embodied intelligence, greatly superior to our own. And furthermore, NDEers report that they feel themselves to be more alive and intelligent while out of the body than in the body. NDE research seems to be confirming Plato's view that the body acts as a damper on the soul's native intelligence, weighing it down, so to speak, so that the soul is not able to manifest its full intelligence as long as it is embodied in material form.—NG

                                                                Very nonchalantly, without batting an eye, the response was "Even if I were to have a near-death experience myself, I would conclude that I was hallucinating, rather than believe that my mind can exist independently of my brain." He went on to add that dualism (the philosophical thesis that asserts mind and matter are independent substances, neither of which can be reduced to the other) is a false theory, and that there cannot be evidence for something that's false.

                                                                This was a momentous experience for me, because here was an educated, intelligent man telling me that he will not give up materialism, no matter what. Even the evidence of his own experience would not cause him to give up materialism. I realized two things in that moment. First, this experience cured me of any impulse to argue these things with recalcitrant colleagues; it is pointless to argue with someone who tells me that his mind is already made up, and nothing I can say will change it. Second, this experience taught me that it is important to distinguish between (a) materialism as an empirical hypothesis about the nature of the world, which is amenable to evidence one way or the other (this is the hallmark of a scientific hypothesis—that evidence is relevant for its truth or falsity) and (b) materialism as an ideology, or paradigm, about how things "must" be, which is impervious to evidence (this is the hallmark of an unscientific hypothesis—that evidence is not relevant for its truth).

                                                                My colleague believed in materialism not as a scientific hypothesis that, qua scientific hypothesis, might be false, but rather as dogma and ideology that "must" be true, evidence to the contrary notwithstanding. For him, materialism is the fundamental paradigm in terms of which everything else is explained, but which is not itself open to doubt. I shall coin the term "fundamaterialist" to refer to those who believe that materialism is a necessary truth, not amenable to empirical evidence. I call it fundamaterialism to make explicit comparison with fundamentalism in religion. Fundamentalism connotes an attitude of certainty towards one's core belief. Just as the fundamentalist Christian is absolutely certain that the world was created in the manner described by The Bible (fossil evidence notwithstanding), so also the fundamaterialist is absolutely certain that there exists nothing that is not made up of matter or physical energy (NDE and other evidence notwithstanding). In fact, and this is the crucial point, their respective beliefs have nothing to do with evidence. As my fundamaterialist colleague put it, "There can't be evidence for something that's false."

                                                                With respect to (a), materialism held as an empirical hypothesis about the world, the evidence against it is overwhelming. With respect to (b), materialism held as an ideology, evidence against it is logically impossible. A complicating factor is that the fundamaterialist typically holds the metabelief that his belief in materialism is not ideological, but empirical. That is, he misclassifies himself under (a), while his behavior clearly falls under (b). The debunker and skeptic believe they are being "scientific" in ignoring and rejecting the evidence against materialism. But when asked what kind of evidence it would take to convince them that materialism is empirically false, they are, like my colleague, usually at a loss for what to say. If they're not familiar with the data, they'll come up with a criterion of evidence that in fact has already been met. When it is pointed out that there exist many well-documented cases that satisfy the proposed criterion, they will simply make the criterion more stringent, and at some point they cross the line between the reasonable demand for scientific evidence and the unreasonable (and unscientific) demand for logical proof.

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