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"crazy"?-Re: Terry Boardman"con-spiracy"-

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  • elaine upton
    Hello John, Joel, and all of this thread. John (Jean, Ian, Johannes,Gian, Juan), in reference to the Terry Boardman ... Dear one, I do not know what you refer
    Message 1 of 3 , Aug 9, 2000
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      Hello John, Joel, and all of this thread.

      John (Jean, Ian, Johannes,Gian, Juan), in reference to the Terry Boardman
      website and articles on anthroposophy and "con-spiracy" thread, you write:

      >
      >I've read many of the articles at this and similar sites. They all do the
      >same thing: "Oh there's so much information out there," they say, "that
      >we're not going to repeat it here." Then they repeat all the conspiracy
      >allegations without substantiation.

      Dear one, I do not know what you refer to. I did not see anything troubling
      (unsubstantiated allegations and the like) in what Boardman wrote. Did I
      miss something? To what exactly do you refer?


      You continue:
      >
      >WHERE IS THE SUBSTANTIATION?
      >
      >I have had substantial contact with some of the groups that Boardman tars,
      >and I find his allegations just as crazy as he implies other conspiracy
      >theories are. He needs to document his allegations, and he does not.
      >Period.

      Again, to what exactly do you refer? Who are "the groups" about which
      "crazy" allegations are made? Boardman refers to lots of figures and groups,
      alright (Tony Blair, Clinton, Rockefellers, Rothschild, Cecil Rhodes, etc.
      and George Bush's Yale group, Stones and whatever, and to Freemasons and so
      on), but I don't see any "crazy" allegations.
      Would you care to explain your own allegations about allegations (crazy or
      not--smile)?


      >
      >Unless this conspiracy is taking place at a cosmic level of which many of
      >the key players are unaware, Boardman's linking of people like Gates to his
      >group is part of the more ridiculous aspect of his theory.


      Well, I must have missed the mention of Gates and whatever you are calling
      "ridiculous". You surely do write a lot of allegations yourself, using words
      like "crazy", "ridiculous", and the like.

      As for Boardman, in what I read so far, there is much rich matter for me to
      ponder. I find it important that he gives an anthroposophic perspective
      tracing the history of the workings of occult powers from the incarnation of
      Lucifer in China to the Christ incarnation in Palestine to the imminent
      Ahrimanic incarnation in the West, and then he(Boardman) goes on to suggest
      that certain historic groups and events on the Earthly plane are "devils
      advocates" or agents of this imminent incarnation of Ahriman --those
      advocates being those who promote, whether consciously or unconsciously,
      the so-called New World (materialistic) Order, etc. He proposes Rudolf
      Steiner's Threefolding as an alternative, but not a mindless dogmatic
      version of Threefolding (whatever that is or would be).

      I think it might be great to discuss any *real problems* you might see in
      what Boardman outlines. Maybe i overlooked something, or haven't read things
      to which you refer. But your own references are, so far, vague, and what
      stands out are your own paradoxically unclear allegations. So, discussion
      would, for me, be more helpful without your own allegations and charges of
      "ridiculous", "crazy," etc.

      You continue:

      Consider that
      >fact that in the 1980s and 90s we had people making money on a scale
      >unprecedented in the history of the world. Adjusted for inflation, Gates
      >and
      >his contemporaries have surpassed all the Robber Barons of exactly one
      >hundred years earlier. And this group has completely swept aside the old
      >establishment, which they consider irrelevant. They couldn't care less
      >about
      >people like the members of Rockefeller's foreign affairs group.

      Fine. But what is your point?

      What you say does not negate what i have read from Boardman. Boardman refers
      to Rockefeller's, Rotchschilds, Rhodes, Bush's, Windsor's, etc.--those you
      call the old "Robber Barons"-- as those who have built a tradition of global
      elitism, promoting a world economy and eventually a world government, where
      the few control the many, and where individual freedoms are denied, creating
      a parent-child relationship, an oligarchy. It seems to me that if we just
      look around, and we don't have to look far at all, such is taking place in
      the European Union, and in the more recent NAFTA and APEC (as Boardman and
      others have said, and as anyone can see) and in the whole economic trend of
      the global market and the monopoly of a few corporations who constantly
      create mergers, swallowing up diversity and freedom of choice.--Now, if
      Gates and others come along and make more money and control more media than
      these old "robber barons" ever made, so what? The principle of creating
      global elitism, to which Boardman points, is still at work, only now perhaps
      on an even larger, mind boggling scale. It's a matter of degree here...

      And, speaking of Media and Media control, Boardman does quote our own Joel
      Wendt, and what he quotes i have read before from Joel, and i wish to say
      once again that I find Joel's comments touch something very important in all
      of this: the question of transformation of the Media, so that the Media
      become Christ-ened, in the Sun being. As Joel states, there is another kind
      of threefolding of state-media-people, and the media are powerful (creating
      for good or ill, with journalists, etc. who are conscious or unconscious of
      what they do). The media create "common understandings" today. But, as Joel
      beautifully states, there is the opportunity to enter (however difficult
      that entry into) the realm of the media, to transform the materialistically
      frozen word into a "song of free people." Something like that. Those are all
      not your exact words, Joel, but I trust I have not distorted what you offer
      us.


      So, my concern, is that anthroposophic writers like Boardman and Joel wendt,
      and workers like Nicanor Perlas in the Phillipines, for example, and those
      who are not even anthroposophists, like the protesters at Seattle and
      Washington,D.C. recently during the World Bank and IMF meetings, are voices
      for transformation. So, i repeat: if Boardman or any of these voices speak
      problematically or sometimes in error, then it is good to point out--without
      name-calling such as "ridiculous", etc.-- where the problems are, it seems
      to me. But to make charges of "ridiculous","crazy", without clear reference
      is not helpful to me. And in the main, I wish to give thanks for these
      voices, and, most humbly, to add my wee voice to theirs.

      Peace,
      elaine




      They form
      >their own alliances with the new rich like Barry Diller, David Geffen,
      >Rupert Murdoch, Steven Jobs, John Doerr, Jim Clark and all the others who
      >live in a world completely separate from the the Rockefellers et al.
      >

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    • John Massengale
      Elaine, It sounds as though you have not yet read all of Boardman s New World Order articles. Unfortunately, I no longer have the url s, or I would cut and
      Message 2 of 3 , Aug 9, 2000
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        Re: Terry Boardman"con-spiracy"- Elaine,

        It sounds as though you have not yet read all of Boardman's New World Order articles. Unfortunately, I no longer have the url's, or I would cut and paste some examples.

        Boardman is explicit about New World Order groups which have been working consciously and together, he says, for more than a hundred years to create one body which will control the world. He names the men who have run this effort as recognized heads of an organized group, and he paints their efforts as a continuous one which stretches from Rhodes to Gates. Among its efforts, he says, was to force its enemies Germany and Russia to destroy themselves.

        We can all agree that there is a general capitalist ethic that has been supported by various establishments, but what I say is ridiculous without substantiation from Boardman is his assertion that this is a continuous, organized effort that stretches from Rhodes to Gates. That is why my points about Gates were relevant.

        This goes back, of course, to the old Jewish Communist Banking Conspiracy that groups on the far right, like the John Birch Society and even the Nazis, used to talk about. I imagine you would be less happy with the theory if Boardman elaborated those anti-Semitic foundations.

        John Massengale
      • John Massengale
        ... When the Birchers used to talk about the International Jewish Communist Banking Conspiracy, they would talk about the Rockajews, and how Franklin Delano
        Message 3 of 3 , Aug 9, 2000
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          > This goes back, of course, to the old Jewish Communist Banking Conspiracy that
          > groups on the far right, like the John Birch Society and even the Nazis, used
          > to talk about. I imagine you would be less happy with the theory if Boardman
          > elaborated those anti-Semitic foundations.

          When the Birchers used to talk about the International Jewish Communist
          Banking Conspiracy, they would talk about the "Rockajews," and how Franklin
          Delano "Rosenfeld" "sold us down the river at Yalta."
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