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Re: Karl Jung

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  • holderlin66
    Marie-Louise von Franz (January 4, 1915 - February 17, 1998), the daughter of an Austrian baron and born in Munich, Germany. Bradford brings this Earth
    Message 1 of 49 , Feb 7, 2007
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      "Marie-Louise von Franz (January 4, 1915 - February 17, 1998), the
      daughter of an Austrian baron and born in Munich, Germany."

      Bradford brings this Earth Shattering and stunningly buried and
      dismissed in depth insight.

      " Jung and Pauli arrived at a set of propositions about the nature
      of reality that mark a fundamental departure from the tenets of the
      worldview of modern science that has prevailed since Descartes. Jung
      and Pauli came to hold that the realm of mind, psyche, and the realm
      of matter, physis, are complementary aspects of the same
      transcendental reality, the unus mundus."

      Marie-Louise von Franz, Munich Germany, she worked with Carl Jung
      whom she met in 1933...what are the chances that Anthros can see
      these intimate connections and see anything with clarity?

      Nothing comes of nothing. Failure to link our advanced understanding
      on this list to quantum mechanics, Physics and Heisenberg's
      Uncertainty, where by shere thought, particles pop up where they
      weren't and shouldn't be stuck between the action of waves and
      particles in primitve PERCEPT ADDICTED ANAL SCIENCE STUDIES...leaves
      us with a thought sensitive and soul sensitive universe that we
      refuse to see and build upon. Why are Anthros and Scientists and all
      of Education horrified that all this that we have presented dealing
      with time déjà vu, pre-vision, leaping ahead on times stream, and
      exercises that promote this, as well as grasping Star and Angelic
      pre-preparations for the two Jesus and Zarathustra incarnations,
      with all the astral potential of real star wisdom, nightly, when we
      go to sleep and when we wake up, is utterly TRUE, Souls refuse to
      touch it. Won't lift a finger to search out any details, avoids
      thinking it through and stands before us with the School of
      Spiritual Science and insights from all points, and still walk away
      from such shattering research? Are we such utter dunces that we
      prefer that things AREN'T REAL!

      Failure over and over, and over again to bring the soul of
      understanding Angelic Syncrhonicity from our own ADB, Angelic Daily
      Briefing, including waking dreams and time scans, with utter exact
      clarity, called déjà vu (which is also dismissed as some cliche that
      I had been here before reveals the entire lazy utter uncognitive
      nonsense) When in actual essence the astral zoomed ahead,
      zooooommmm! zooooommm! It did a triangulation from astral leaving
      the anchored body to a survey of time ahead, via the higher being
      and Angel, when are we gonna stop avoiding reality? But not in the
      intellectual moronic cess pool of happy faces can anyone get postive
      cognitive traction unless they GET IT!

      And Anthros don't even make the effort to get it. Nothing comes of



      "...About two years before his death, Jung handed to von Franz a
      small slip of paper upon which he had begun to gather notes about
      the mathematical properties of the first four integers, saying, "I
      am too old to be able to write this now, so I hand it over to you."
      At the time she did not know whether he intended for her to pursue
      his study of number archetypes, or if he simply wanted her to hand
      it over to someone whom she might meet that would be suitable for
      such a project. After Jung's death she preferred to assume the
      latter because she felt incapable of doing it herself. However, as a
      long interval passed without the appearance of anyone to take up the
      task, she was `bitten' by her conscience and subsequently entered
      into a long and intensive period of research and writing that
      culminated in the publication in 1970 of her treatise on number
      archetypes, Zahl und Zeit (Number and Time, 1974).

      As indicated by the subtitle of this work —"Reflections
      Leading toward a Unification of Depth Psychology and Physics"—von
      Franz's intention with Number and Time was to continue to explore
      the ideas that had grown out of the collaboration of Jung with the
      Nobel laureate quantum physicist, Wolfgang Pauli. von Franz was,
      despite her reticence, well positioned to take on this work, for she
      had worked closely with both men during the decade of their
      collaboration—helping each by translating passages from alchemical
      texts and working with Pauli to explore the symbolism of his dreams
      and visions that were related to his intellectual quest. In the
      course of this collaboration, which in its most active phase spanned
      the years from 1946-54, Jung and Pauli arrived at a set of
      propositions about the nature of reality that mark a fundamental
      departure from the tenets of the worldview of modern science that
      has prevailed since Descartes. Jung and Pauli came to hold that the
      realm of mind, psyche, and the realm of matter, physis, are
      complementary aspects of the same transcendental reality, the unus
      mundus. They asserted that archetypes act as the fundamental
      dynamical patterns whose various representations characterize all
      processes, whether mental or physical. In the realm of psyche,
      archetypes organize images and ideas; in the realm of physis, they
      organize the structure and transformations of matter and energy and
      account for acausal orderedness, as well. Furthermore, archetypes
      acting simultaneously in both the realms of psyche and physis were
      held to account for instances of synchronistic phenomena.

      Jung and Pauli's collaboration came to an end in what were to
      be the later years of their lives, and neither man was able to
      pursue these propositions further. Pauli, however, expressed an
      interest in exploring the archetypal ideas that form the basis of
      mathematics, particularly the idea in arithmetic of an infinite
      series of integers and the idea in geometry of the continuum (
      Pauli, 1994), and Jung was drawn to the archetypal nature of natural

      Starting from Jung's initial hints, von Franz investigated
      number archetypes as dynamical ordering factors active both in
      psyche and in matter. In Number and Time, she examined aspects of
      number and numeration drawn from a wide variety of cultures both
      ancient and modern, primitive and technologically advanced. She
      discussed in particular detail the qualitative aspects of the
      structure of the number archetypes that give rise to the first four
      integers. As well, she investigated the dynamical aspects of the
      number archetypes and their relationship to physical and psychic
      energy, and she discussed historical and mathematical models of the
      unus mundus and the role of number archetypes in synchronistic

      From her investigation of number archetypes, von Franz
      concluded that the primarily collective, quantitative aspects of
      number that preoccupy Western number theory are complemented by
      individual, qualitative aspects. To illustrate these aspects of
      number, she cited examples of the treatment of numbers in ancient
      Chinese number systems, and concluded that the Chinese did not use
      numbers as quantitative sets but as emblems or symbols: "Numbers
      thus serve chiefly to make visible the circumstantial individual
      aspects of the cosmic unity or whole."(p. 41) Chinese numbers also
      contained an essential relation with time: "In China, numbers
      signify organizations which vary in time, or transient `ensembles'
      of inner and outer factors within the world-totality."(p. 41-2)

      Common to both Western and ancient Chinese approaches to
      number, however, is the use of number in establishing regularity and
      order. Jung had stated that `[number] may well be the most primitive
      element of order in the human mind...thus we define number
      psychologically as an archetype of order which has become
      conscious." (p. 45) As with all archetypes, the number archetypes
      have an inherent dynamical quality--that is, they represent abstract
      patterns of rhythmical behavior. von Franz held that:
      The archetypes primarily represent dynamical units of psychic
      energy. In preconscious processes they assimilate representational
      material originating in the phenomenal world to specific images and
      models, so that they become introspectively perceptible as `psychic'
      happenings.(p. 155)

      In Number and Time, the quaternio of archetypes that underlie
      the first four integers are discussed in particular detail.
      Summarizing their archetypal behavior, von Franz explained that,
      Numbers then become typical psychological patterns of motion about
      which we can make the following statements: One comprises wholeness,
      two divides, repeats and engenders symmetries, three centers the
      symmetries and initiates linear succession, four acts as a
      stabilizer by turning back to the one as well as bringing forth
      observables by creating boundaries, and so on.(p. 74) von Franz
      postulated that representations of this quaternio provide the
      dynamical patterns which underlie all processes of perception and
      symbol formation in the psyche and account for the structure and
      transformation of matter and energy in the physical world.

      Natural numbers appear to represent the typical universally
      recurring, common motion patterns of both psychic and physical
      energy. Because these motion patterns (numbers) are identical for
      both forms of energy, the human mind can, on the whole, grasp the
      phenomena of the outer world. This means that the motion patterns
      engender "thought and structure models" in man's psyche, which can
      be applied to physical phenomena and achieve relative congruence.
      The existence of such numerical nature constants in the outer world,
      on the one hand, and in the preconscious psyche, on the other (e.g.,
      in the quaternary structures of the "psychic center", the triadic
      structure of dynamic processes, the dualistic structure of threshold
      phenomena, and so forth) is probably what finally makes all
      conscious knowledge of nature possible.(p. 166-7)

      The dynamical behavior of the number archetypes, in particular
      the quaternio, is thus held to characterize all physical processes
      and all mental acts of perception and symbolic representation. Thus,
      the number archetypes are thought to be universal aspects of symbol
      formation. Consequently, as von Franz has pointed out, the number
      archetypes should provide the means to construct what Pauli had
      called a language which is `neutral' with respect to psycho-physical
      distinction. Such a language, as yet undeveloped, would offer an
      archetypally-invariant basis upon which representations of all
      physical and mental processes could be established.

      The cluster of propositions that grew out of the collaboration
      of Jung and Pauli constituted a hypothesis about the role of
      archetypes in the structuring of reality. Through her research into
      number archetypes, von Franz has significantly clarified and
      extended their archetypal hypothesis such that it may be restated as

      All mental and physical phenomena are complementary aspects of the
      same unitary, transcendental reality.

      At the basis of all physical and mental phenomena there exist
      certain fundamental dynamical forms or patterns of behavior called
      number archetypes.

      Any specific process, physical or mental, is a particular
      representation of certain of these archetypes. In particular, the
      number archetypes provide the basis for all possible symbolic

      Therefore, it is possible that a neutral language constructed
      from abstract symbolic representations of the number archetypes may
      provide highly unified, although not unique, descriptions of all
      mental or physical phenomena.

      von Franz was not satisfied with Number and Time; she called
      it, "a rather unreadable book" and regretted that it had failed to
      communicate and provoke discussion of its central tenets. With it,
      she had tried to take Jung's initial hints somewhat further and to
      show that a "real, absolute isomorphism is present," between
      representations of the number archetypes as they appear in the
      psyche and in the physical world. She said, "I was able to take this
      up to the number four. Then it became too complicated, and at that
      point I also hit my head on the ceiling," (von Franz, 1992, p. 37)
      just as Jung, too, had hit his head on the ceiling prior to turning
      the project over to her.

      With Number and Time, von Franz unquestionably leads the
      reader through forbidding terrain--assuming extensive knowledge of
      Jungian psychology, as well as knowledge of major developments and
      issues in twentieth century physics and mathematics. She has
      attempted to create a discourse between the areas of depth
      psychology and physics, with the intent of working toward their
      ultimate unification—a task which can only be seen as Herculean. At
      present there are two factors which have helped to improve the
      accessibility of Number and Time. The first is the publication in
      1992 of von Franz's Psyche and Matter, a collection of twelve of her
      essays and lectures which clarify and amplify much of the content of
      Number and Time, and as such it comprises a suitable companion
      volume to it. The second factor is the emergence in the past decade
      of a growing interest in the collaboration of Jung and Pauli,
      including the publication of their correspondence and much valuable
      secondary source material.(for references see Card, 1991, 1992,
      1998; Robertson, 1995)

      From the vantage point offered by these works, it is now possible
      to reassess the importance of von Franz's work on number archetypes:
      by developing and refining the central ideas of the Jung-Pauli
      collaboration, she has pointed, through her examination of the
      number archetypes, to the way by which Pauli's psycho-physically
      neutral language might be obtained. If this should ever be achieved,
      it could become the means for the development of a post-Cartesian
      archetypal science in which a unified inquiry into the nature of
      mind and matter could take place. If this is so, then von Franz's
      most obscure work would easily become her most important. It is
      hoped that the essay which follows will help to advance von Franz's
      work and be seen as a fitting tribute to her."

      Number and Time
      Reflections Leading Toward a Unification of Depth Psychology and

      Marie-Louise Von Franz

      "C.G. Jung's work in his later years suggested that the seemingly
      divergent sciences of psychology and modern physics might, in fact,
      be approaching a unified world model in which the dualism of matter
      and psyche would be resolved. Jung believed that the natural
      integers are the archetypal patterns that regulate the unitary realm
      of psyche and matter, and that number serves as a special instrument
      for man's becoming conscious of this unity.

      "Writen in a clear style and replete with illustrations which help
      make the mathematical ideas visible, Number and Time is a piece of
      original scholarship which introduces a view of how "mind" connects
      with "matter" at the most fundamental level."

      Marie-Louise von Franz (January 4, 1915 - February 17, 1998), the
      daughter of an Austrian baron and born in Munich, Germany, was a
      Swiss Jungian Psychologist and scholar. She worked with Carl Jung
      whom she met in 1933 and knew until his death in 1961. She founded
      the C. G. Jung Institute in Zurich. As a psychotherapist, she is
      said to have interpreted over 65,000 dreams, primarily practicing in
      Kusnacht, Switzerland.

      She wrote over 20 volumes on Analytical psychology, most notably on
      fairy tales as they relate to Archetypal or Depth Psychology, most
      specifically by amplification of the themes and characters. She also
      wrote on subjects such as alchemy, discussed from the Jungian,
      psychological perspective, and active imagination, which could be
      described as conscious dreaming. In Man and his Symbols, von Franz
      described active imagination as follows: "Active imagination is a
      certain way of meditating imaginatively, by which one may
      deliberately enter into contact with the unconscious and make a
      conscious connection with psychic phenomena."
    • Carol
      Steiner not only got it, prepared it, presented it in the calm center of a world in absolute crushing WW s crisis but expected the Michael School would be
      Message 49 of 49 , Feb 27, 2007
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        “Steiner not only got it, prepared it, presented it in the calm center of a world in absolute crushing WW's crisis but expected theMichael School would be able to put the puzzle pieces together and learn to stand up against those who abuse the term critical mass and those who diminish the term Intelligent Design. The mystery streams prepared humanity to grasp the mighty effects of the rise of the Etheric Christ Sun, bringing to the gods the unfolding magnificent seed of Spirit Man wrought in the tragic matrix of Golgotha .”


        But the Mystery streams still keep flowing at full tilt. Steiner took well to his part in all this,   in a magnificent way,  which has me thoroughly and continuously marveling.  And so in a more recent time segment of our humanity’s evolution,  Marie-Louise von Franz, Pauli and little M. Holderlin have dreamed of discovering “the psychological equivalence of the atomic bomb”.  All in good time. (I’m glad you reiterated enough times for me to catch it!).


        I have recently enjoyed forming new concepts which I'm able to do through studying some of the principal spiritual events which occurred during the various earthly/ planetary incarnations. These concepts which I have been able to grasp visually and imaginatively, have allowed me to apply  more appropriate configurations towards  deciphering the life of my inner self; it just so happens that these thought images which I transpose onto my own inner human nature in full realism,  take their reference from events which have occurred outside of my ever present physical reality.


        I am  becoming more pliable to take into myself the formative forces which spiritual science wishes to bring forward into the human realm of clear consciousness, and ones which themselves,  work in unison with the evolutionary spiritual forces active in and around me,  at the moment.


        Reiterated from: Evolution in the Aspect of Realities, 6 lectures from GA #132


        “Since a multitude of sub layers of the soul manage to rise to the surface as does a desire for something which could not previously be grasped, Spiritual science has come in response to this-    ‘nostalgia’ in appearance which emerges from the depths of the soul.  One shouldn’t be too surprised therefore (since all that occurs in the world has it’s antecedent) that spiritual knowledge has come to appease this need, as a soul faculty. “


        “The mystery streams prepared humanity to grasp the mighty effects of the rise of the Etheric Christ Sun..”


        I would more likely say that it’s a magnificent, spread out, natural convergence,  in the happening,  though to get this view, you probably have to be 'watching'  from up close…



        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 11:32 AM
        Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: Karl Jung

        „The Psychological Equivalent to the Atomic Bomb".

        "The Heisenberg principle states that that which is being observed
        changes just by peing observed. Physicist Heisenberg made note of
        this phenomenon in regard to say, atoms being observed by photons;
        but its application is nigh universal."

        http://www.psychovi sion.ch/synw/ sealofsolomoninc arnation51. htm#51

        "....during this time Marie-Louise von Franz had a dream, in which
        she was given the task to find „the psychological equivalent to the
        atomic bomb". This is, of course, a very enigmatic challenge. The
        only hint for an interpretation of this dream is a sentence in a
        later letter to her, in which he connects this dream with some of
        his own ones he dreamt during the year 1954. They deal with the
        isolation of a radioactive isotope in a secret laboratory, of which
        Pauli does not know anything at all!

        " These dreams are of decisive importance for the extraction of the
        meaning of a future task I will later call "the observation of inner
        radioactivity" . Here, we will only notice that this challenge seems
        to be connected with the Seal of Solomon, which is itself, as we
        have seen (in 4.3.1), a symbol of the subtle intermediate realm, the
        unus mundus (which we later will call the psyche in its generalized

        "In the context of this dream of the psychological equivalence of
        the atomic bomb, Pauli mentions the fact that in his dreams of the
        last years the light aspect of his anima, which he interprets as
        physical science, became more and more negative, in opposition to
        the dark one, which means the chthonic aspect that became more and
        more positive. As an attribute of this dark anima he mentions also
        parapsychology (and biology). Then he writes:

        "Was das Unbewusste kompensatiorisch zum `Zeitgeist' ... - zu dem
        auch die Atombombe gehört - von uns verlangt, ist ein Spiegelbild
        der Assumptio Mariae nach unten: die Aufnahme chtonischer Weisheit
        aus einem tiefen, dunklen Mutterschoss in das obere männliche
        Bewusstsein. Dies könnte zu einem neuen Gleichgewicht führen
        (während das Aufhängen von Quaternitäten im Himmel mich kalt lässt)."

        English translation:

        "What the unconscious demands of us compensatory to
        the 'zeitgeist'. .. - to which also the atomic bomb belongs - , is a
        mirror image of the Assumptio Mariae to below: a reception of the
        chthonic wisdom out of a deep, dark mother's womb into the male
        consciousness. This could lead to a new balance (while the
        projection of quaternities into heaven leaves me cold)". [emphasis

        " Instead of placing a unitarian, "disinfected" matter principle
        into the spiritual realm of the Platonian Empyreum and by this
        creating an unsymmetrical quaternity in a solely spiritual realm,
        Pauli proposes now that we must look for a compensatory mirror image
        of the Assumption which contains the chthonic wisdom of the
        matriarchal realm. Of course, also this idea we must see on the
        background of his symmetrical or antinomic thinking based on the
        Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics (Niels Bohr) and
        complementarity, with the help of whose he decided "for the
        symmetrical interpretation of the opposite's pair spirit/matter" .

        Bradford sorts some of this out for sluggish reader;

        As already stated and Carol and Steve can certainly catch the drift
        of this, any of us could write a thesis. In this Phase II of the
        Michael School impulse, great, great strides and studies in far and
        extreme regions, hidden letters, and mighty shattering events were
        kept far, far and wide away from anyone putting these things
        together. Specialized branches and personality antipathies
        constantly keep insight from becoming solid. Solidity and serious
        clarity escapes most thinking souls.

        In the above Pauli and Marie-Louise von Franz, can be forgiven for
        Jung's rejection for allowing any possability of eyes even turning
        toward the direction of Spiritual Science. Jung developed an
        antipathy to Steiner and went his own way and rejected Spiritual
        Science. This has good points and shoddy rotten points to it. For
        Wolfgang Pauli and Marie-Louise von Franz were doing exactly what I
        felt I needed to do but I hadn't discovered their struggles yet.
        They had been pressed away from Steiner's Spiritual Science by Jung.
        My struggles and issues of course come years and years later, but
        theirs was in the current psychological atmosphere of events, just
        before and near my incarnation.

        When I connect the idea of Critical Mass to where we should locate
        Critical Mass in the filter of Light and Love from an absolute
        mushrooming epicenter, we must needs, there is no other way, we must
        needs trace the epi-center where human Critical Mass is installed
        and planted in the healthy framework of humanity, there is no other
        path than to connect this Critical Mass to the Transfiguration of of
        the Jesus form by Christ and the penetration of the Cosmic I AM into
        the i am of humanity. In other words, aside from Gore Vidal, from
        our perspective and Spiritual Science and the perspective of matter,
        reality and Truth, is a tale that is "Live from Golgotha".

        Marie-Louise von Franz, Pauli, Steiner and Bradford as well as
        Elizabeth Boggs found that we had to enter into a study that
        was „the psychological equivalent to the atomic bomb". Marie-Louise
        von Franz and Pauli then even were living in the pulse of the
        ZEITGEIST. The ZeitGeist we know as Michael, and the ZeitGeist
        learning experience that they felt compelled to try to understand as
        Light went deep into their inner beings and disturbed, their astral
        body brought back disturbed images into the core of their human

        "Pauli mentions the fact that in his dreams of the last years the
        light aspect of his anima, which he interprets as physical science,
        became more and more negative, in opposition to the dark one, which
        means the chthonic aspect that became more and more positive."
        Friends when we examine the critical experiences that were going on
        at the critical juncture of the dawn of the Ahrimanic nuclear Sun,
        we find that the ether blue mantle of Maria...now excuse me, the
        ether blue mantel of Maria and that which Stephen Clarke and others
        get lost in, THE CHTHONIC, dark mother earth world of symbols,
        Demeter, Persephone.. .all very rich in lore but....but.. .. You see
        at the end of Faust, the bad ending that Goethe makes to Faust, a
        failed ending, lets Faust see the Maria....not that Maria is bad or
        Maria is not part of the soul body substance... .But Jung, Pauli and
        Marie-louise von Franz and the whole underworld and very rich
        mysteries of the dark unconscious world....cheats on reality because
        it refuses to see the Imagination of Critical Mass, as the Jesus
        Being offering itself to the implosion of raw higher Light and Love
        that engulfs, guides and nearly shatters the form of Jesus, as the
        full force of the magnitude of Light rests with cosmic loving warmth
        in the seed core of the heart of Man.

        You want to understand what Pauli and Marie-Louise von Franz
        wrestled with, and what Steiner knew as the antidote to the nuclear
        age? When anyone of us defuses the mystery of the Ahrimanic nuclear
        risen Sun and finds the trail that with full physical, etheric,
        astral and I AM science leads to...it will be „the psychological
        equivalent to the atomic bomb". It is this which is exactly what the
        Christ Event, understood and delivered by Spiritual Science, ahead
        of the dangers of the Ahrimanic Sun IS to the human soul. It is for
        the healthy human soul, „the psychological equivalent to the atomic
        bomb". Only the soul doesn't know that nor does it arrive at the
        interest levels where many souls can sustain the objective
        educational features that have been presented.

        Again, we struggle with the maturity levels of seeing deeply into
        the core of recent ZeitGeist events, physics, nobel prizes,
        Oppenheimer, Truman, War with Iran, Depleted Uranium...souls
        refusing to take the step that Pauli, Franz and Steiner and Jung
        paved the way for. Not only is it incidental that Synchronicty and
        reading deeper event tracking in our daily lives has been run over
        by cell phone I.D. and giddy image transfers, it is rather that the
        signature of the Christ Being Himself or the universal Love and
        catharsis laws reveal that Elizabeth Boggs went through a real moral
        ordeal. Pauli, Jung and Franz were going through real spiritual and
        moral crisis, Truman and Oppenheimer as well as Bohrs and Heisenberg
        went through real moral crisis at the threshold of missing, „the
        psychological equivalent to the atomic bomb".

        Steiner not only got it, prepared it, presented it in the calm
        center of a world in absolute crushing WW's crisis but expected the
        Michael School would be able to put the puzzle pieces together and
        learn to stand up against those who abuse the term critical mass and
        those who diminish the term Intelligent Design. The mystery streams
        prepared humanity to grasp the mighty effects of the rise of the
        Etheric Christ Sun, bringing to the gods the unfolding magnificent
        seed of Spirit Man wrought in the tragic matrix of Golgotha.

        It is called the Mystery of Golgotha and it is truly a study how
        Light and Love is digested and becomes Critical Mass providing the
        soul lets thinking arise alongside subjective development. ...

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