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Fwd: Ho'Oponopono Healing

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  • Elsa Santos
    HO OPONOPONO by Joe Vitale Two years ago, I heard about a therapist in Hawaii who cured a complete ward of criminally insane patients--without ever seeing any
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 23, 2007
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      HO'OPONOPONO
      by Joe Vitale
      "Two years ago, I heard about a therapist in Hawaii who cured a
      complete ward of criminally insane patients--without ever seeing any
      of them. The psychologist would study an inmate's chart and then
      look within himself to see how he created that person's illness. As
      he improved himself, the patient improved.
      "When I first heard this story, I thought it was an urban legend.
      How could anyone heal anyone else by healing himself? How could even
      the best self-improvement master cure the criminally insane? It
      didn't make any sense. It wasn't logical, so I dismissed the story.
      "However, I heard it again a year later. I heard that the therapist
      had used a Hawaiian healing process called ho 'oponopono. I had
      never heard of it, yet I couldn't let it leave my mind. If the story
      was at all true, I had to know more. I had always understood "total
      responsibility" to mean that I am responsible for what I think and
      do.
      Beyond that, it's out of my hands. I think that most people think of
      total responsibility that way. We're responsible for what we do, not
      what anyone else does--but that's wrong.
      "The Hawaiian therapist who healed those mentally ill people would
      teach me an advanced new perspective about total responsibility. His
      name is Dr. Ihaleakala Hew Len. We probably spent an hour talking on
      our first phone call. I asked him to tell me the complete story of
      his work as a therapist.
      He explained that he worked at Hawaii State Hospital for four years.
      That ward where they kept the criminally insane was dangerous.
      Psychologists quit on a monthly basis. The staff called in sick a
      lot or simply quit. People would walk through that ward with their
      backs against the wall, afraid of being attacked by patients. It was
      not a pleasant place to live, work, or visit.
      "Dr. Len told me that he never saw patients. He agreed to have an
      office and to review their files. While he looked at those files, he
      would work on himself. As he worked on himself, patients began to
      heal.
      "'After a few months, patients that had to be shackled were being
      allowed to walk freely,' he told me. 'Others who had to be heavily
      medicated were getting off their medications. And those who had no
      chance of ever being released were being freed.' I was in awe.'Not
      only that,' he went on, 'but the staff began to enjoy coming to
      work.
      Absenteeism and turnover disappeared. We ended up with more staff
      than we needed because patients were being released, and all the
      staff was showing up to work. Today, that ward is closed.'
      "This is where I had to ask the million dollar question: 'What were
      you doing within yourself that caused those people to change?'
      "'I was simply healing the part of me that created them,' he said. I
      didn't understand. Dr. Len explained that total responsibility for
      your life means that everything in your life- simply because it is
      in your life--is your responsibility. In a literal sense the entire
      world is your creation.
      "Whew. This is tough to swallow. Being responsible for what I say or
      do is one thing. Being responsible for what everyone in my life says
      or does is quite another. Yet, the truth is this: if you take
      complete responsibility for your life, then everything you see,
      hear, taste, touch, or in any way experience is your responsibility
      because it is in your life. This means that terrorist activity, the
      president, the economy or anything you experience and don't like--is
      up for you to heal. They don't exist, in a manner of speaking,
      except as projections from inside you. The problem isn't with them,
      it's with you, and to change them, you have to change you.
      "I know this is tough to grasp, let alone accept or actually live.
      Blame is far easier than total responsibility, but as I spoke with
      Dr. Len, I began to realize that healing for him and in
      ho 'oponopono means loving yourself.
      "If you want to improve your life, you have to heal your life. If
      you want to cure anyone, even a mentally ill criminal you do it by
      healing you.
      "I asked Dr. Len how he went about healing himself. What was he
      doing, exactly, when he looked at those patients' files?
      "'I just kept saying, 'I'm sorry' and 'I love you' over and over
      again,' he explained.
      "That's it?
      "That's it.
      "Turns out that loving yourself is the greatest way to improve
      yourself, and as you improve yourself, you improve your world.
      "Let me give you a quick example of how this works: one day, someone
      sent me an email that upset me. In the past I would have handled it
      by working on my emotional hot buttons or by trying to reason with
      the person who sent the nasty message.
      "This time, I decided to try Dr. Len's method. I kept silently
      saying, 'I'm sorry' and 'I love you,' I didn't say it to anyone in
      particular. I was simply evoking the spirit of love to heal within
      me what was creating the outer circumstance.
      "Within an hour I got an e-mail from the same person. He apologized
      for his previous message. Keep in mind that I didn't take any
      outward action to get that apology. I didn't even write him back.
      Yet, by saying 'I love you,' I somehow healed within me what was
      creating him.
      "I later attended a ho 'oponopono workshop run by Dr. Len. He's now
      70 years old, considered a grandfatherly shaman, and is somewhat
      reclusive.
      He praised my book, The Attractor Factor. He told me that as I
      improve myself, my book's vibration will raise, and everyone will
      feel it when they read it. In short, as I improve, my readers will
      improve.
      "'What about the books that are already sold and out there?' I
      asked.
      "'They aren't out there,' he explained, once again blowing my mind
      with his mystic wisdom. 'They are still in you.' In short, there is
      no out there. It would take a whole book to explain this advanced
      technique with the depth it deserves.
      "Suffice It to say that whenever you want to improve anything in
      your life, there's only one place to look: inside you. When you
      look, do it with love."
    • Gia Bibileishvili
      Sounds strange and too egoistic...it reminds me of subjective idealism..Anyone can say anything but the fact is that we live in a world and our normal
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 23, 2007
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        Sounds strange and too egoistic...it reminds me of subjective idealism..Anyone can say anything but the fact is that we live in a world and our normal perception mean some clear distinctions, reactions etc. To be short there is you and it , subject and object, facts that you are unable to change and some facts you can change with your deeds etc..its life..but to me this teaching is meaningless..love directed towards yourself is the classic definition of narcissism, isn't ..but love directed to others is truly humanistic approach to the world. We should think twice before accepting such ideas without properly examining them...it smells evil here..
         
         
        Gia

        Elsa Santos <elsamagosa@...> wrote:
        HO'OPONOPONO
        by Joe Vitale
        "Two years ago, I heard about a therapist in Hawaii who cured a
        complete ward of criminally insane patients--without ever seeing any
        of them. The psychologist would study an inmate's chart and then
        look within himself to see how he created that person's illness. As
        he improved himself, the patient improved.
        "When I first heard this story, I thought it was an urban legend.
        How could anyone heal anyone else by healing himself? How could even
        the best self-improvement master cure the criminally insane? It
        didn't make any sense. It wasn't logical, so I dismissed the story.
        "However, I heard it again a year later. I heard that the therapist
        had used a Hawaiian healing process called ho 'oponopono. I had
        never heard of it, yet I couldn't let it leave my mind. If the story
        was at all true, I had to know more. I had always understood "total
        responsibility" to mean that I am responsible for what I think and
        do.
        Beyond that, it's out of my hands. I think that most people think of
        total responsibility that way. We're responsible for what we do, not
        what anyone else does--but that's wrong.
        "The Hawaiian therapist who healed those mentally ill people would
        teach me an advanced new perspective about total responsibility. His
        name is Dr. Ihaleakala Hew Len. We probably spent an hour talking on
        our first phone call. I asked him to tell me the complete story of
        his work as a therapist.
        He explained that he worked at Hawaii State Hospital for four years.
        That ward where they kept the criminally insane was dangerous.
        Psychologists quit on a monthly basis. The staff called in sick a
        lot or simply quit. People would walk through that ward with their
        backs against the wall, afraid of being attacked by patients. It was
        not a pleasant place to live, work, or visit.
        "Dr. Len told me that he never saw patients. He agreed to have an
        office and to review their files. While he looked at those files, he
        would work on himself. As he worked on himself, patients began to
        heal.
        "'After a few months, patients that had to be shackled were being
        allowed to walk freely,' he told me. 'Others who had to be heavily
        medicated were getting off their medications. And those who had no
        chance of ever being released were being freed.' I was in awe.'Not
        only that,' he went on, 'but the staff began to enjoy coming to
        work.
        Absenteeism and turnover disappeared. We ended up with more staff
        than we needed because patients were being released, and all the
        staff was showing up to work. Today, that ward is closed.'
        "This is where I had to ask the million dollar question: 'What were
        you doing within yourself that caused those people to change?'
        "'I was simply healing the part of me that created them,' he said. I
        didn't understand. Dr. Len explained that total responsibility for
        your life means that everything in your life- simply because it is
        in your life--is your responsibility. In a literal sense the entire
        world is your creation.
        "Whew. This is tough to swallow. Being responsible for what I say or
        do is one thing. Being responsible for what everyone in my life says
        or does is quite another. Yet, the truth is this: if you take
        complete responsibility for your life, then everything you see,
        hear, taste, touch, or in any way experience is your responsibility
        because it is in your life. This means that terrorist activity, the
        president, the economy or anything you experience and don't like--is
        up for you to heal. They don't exist, in a manner of speaking,
        except as projections from inside you. The problem isn't with them,
        it's with you, and to change them, you have to change you.
        "I know this is tough to grasp, let alone accept or actually live.
        Blame is far easier than total responsibility, but as I spoke with
        Dr. Len, I began to realize that healing for him and in
        ho 'oponopono means loving yourself.
        "If you want to improve your life, you have to heal your life. If
        you want to cure anyone, even a mentally ill criminal you do it by
        healing you.
        "I asked Dr. Len how he went about healing himself. What was he
        doing, exactly, when he looked at those patients' files?
        "'I just kept saying, 'I'm sorry' and 'I love you' over and over
        again,' he explained.
        "That's it?
        "That's it.
        "Turns out that loving yourself is the greatest way to improve
        yourself, and as you improve yourself, you improve your world.
        "Let me give you a quick example of how this works: one day, someone
        sent me an email that upset me. In the past I would have handled it
        by working on my emotional hot buttons or by trying to reason with
        the person who sent the nasty message.
        "This time, I decided to try Dr. Len's method. I kept silently
        saying, 'I'm sorry' and 'I love you,' I didn't say it to anyone in
        particular. I was simply evoking the spirit of love to heal within
        me what was creating the outer circumstance.
        "Within an hour I got an e-mail from the same person. He apologized
        for his previous message. Keep in mind that I didn't take any
        outward action to get that apology. I didn't even write him back.
        Yet, by saying 'I love you,' I somehow healed within me what was
        creating him.
        "I later attended a ho 'oponopono workshop run by Dr. Len. He's now
        70 years old, considered a grandfatherly shaman, and is somewhat
        reclusive.
        He praised my book, The Attractor Factor. He told me that as I
        improve myself, my book's vibration will raise, and everyone will
        feel it when they read it. In short, as I improve, my readers will
        improve.
        "'What about the books that are already sold and out there?' I
        asked.
        "'They aren't out there,' he explained, once again blowing my mind
        with his mystic wisdom. 'They are still in you.' In short, there is
        no out there. It would take a whole book to explain this advanced
        technique with the depth it deserves.
        "Suffice It to say that whenever you want to improve anything in
        your life, there's only one place to look: inside you. When you
        look, do it with love."



        Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
        in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

      • Juliana
        But maybe - it is just an opinion among others - this has something to do with the fact that we are all united and by improving ourselves we are not being
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 23, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          But maybe - it is just an opinion among others - this has something to do with the fact that we are all united and by improving ourselves we are not being selfish, because we are improving all humanity once all humanity is in each one of us. I guess that the love he was 'sending' was for that people and not to him, maybe he knew that people was in him, somehow.
           
          But, maybe, I am wrong.
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 4:05 PM
          Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] Fwd: Ho'Oponopono Healing

          Sounds strange and too egoistic...it reminds me of subjective idealism..Anyone can say anything but the fact is that we live in a world and our normal perception mean some clear distinctions, reactions etc. To be short there is you and it , subject and object, facts that you are unable to change and some facts you can change with your deeds etc..its life..but to me this teaching is meaningless. .love directed towards yourself is the classic definition of narcissism, isn't ..but love directed to others is truly humanistic approach to the world. We should think twice before accepting such ideas without properly examining them...it smells evil here..
           
           
          Gia

          Elsa Santos <elsamagosa@yahoo. com> wrote:
          HO'OPONOPONO
          by Joe Vitale
          "Two years ago, I heard about a therapist in Hawaii who cured a
          complete ward of criminally insane patients--without ever seeing any
          of them. The psychologist would study an inmate's chart and then
          look within himself to see how he created that person's illness. As
          he improved himself, the patient improved.
          "When I first heard this story, I thought it was an urban legend.
          How could anyone heal anyone else by healing himself? How could even
          the best self-improvement master cure the criminally insane? It
          didn't make any sense. It wasn't logical, so I dismissed the story.
          "However, I heard it again a year later. I heard that the therapist
          had used a Hawaiian healing process called ho 'oponopono. I had
          never heard of it, yet I couldn't let it leave my mind. If the story
          was at all true, I had to know more. I had always understood "total
          responsibility" to mean that I am responsible for what I think and
          do.
          Beyond that, it's out of my hands. I think that most people think of
          total responsibility that way. We're responsible for what we do, not
          what anyone else does--but that's wrong.
          "The Hawaiian therapist who healed those mentally ill people would
          teach me an advanced new perspective about total responsibility. His
          name is Dr. Ihaleakala Hew Len. We probably spent an hour talking on
          our first phone call. I asked him to tell me the complete story of
          his work as a therapist.
          He explained that he worked at Hawaii State Hospital for four years.
          That ward where they kept the criminally insane was dangerous.
          Psychologists quit on a monthly basis. The staff called in sick a
          lot or simply quit. People would walk through that ward with their
          backs against the wall, afraid of being attacked by patients. It was
          not a pleasant place to live, work, or visit.
          "Dr. Len told me that he never saw patients. He agreed to have an
          office and to review their files. While he looked at those files, he
          would work on himself. As he worked on himself, patients began to
          heal.
          "'After a few months, patients that had to be shackled were being
          allowed to walk freely,' he told me. 'Others who had to be heavily
          medicated were getting off their medications. And those who had no
          chance of ever being released were being freed.' I was in awe.'Not
          only that,' he went on, 'but the staff began to enjoy coming to
          work.
          Absenteeism and turnover disappeared. We ended up with more staff
          than we needed because patients were being released, and all the
          staff was showing up to work. Today, that ward is closed.'
          "This is where I had to ask the million dollar question: 'What were
          you doing within yourself that caused those people to change?'
          "'I was simply healing the part of me that created them,' he said. I
          didn't understand. Dr. Len explained that total responsibility for
          your life means that everything in your life- simply because it is
          in your life--is your responsibility. In a literal sense the entire
          world is your creation.
          "Whew. This is tough to swallow. Being responsible for what I say or
          do is one thing. Being responsible for what everyone in my life says
          or does is quite another. Yet, the truth is this: if you take
          complete responsibility for your life, then everything you see,
          hear, taste, touch, or in any way experience is your responsibility
          because it is in your life. This means that terrorist activity, the
          president, the economy or anything you experience and don't like--is
          up for you to heal. They don't exist, in a manner of speaking,
          except as projections from inside you. The problem isn't with them,
          it's with you, and to change them, you have to change you.
          "I know this is tough to grasp, let alone accept or actually live.
          Blame is far easier than total responsibility, but as I spoke with
          Dr. Len, I began to realize that healing for him and in
          ho 'oponopono means loving yourself.
          "If you want to improve your life, you have to heal your life. If
          you want to cure anyone, even a mentally ill criminal you do it by
          healing you.
          "I asked Dr. Len how he went about healing himself. What was he
          doing, exactly, when he looked at those patients' files?
          "'I just kept saying, 'I'm sorry' and 'I love you' over and over
          again,' he explained.
          "That's it?
          "That's it.
          "Turns out that loving yourself is the greatest way to improve
          yourself, and as you improve yourself, you improve your world.
          "Let me give you a quick example of how this works: one day, someone
          sent me an email that upset me. In the past I would have handled it
          by working on my emotional hot buttons or by trying to reason with
          the person who sent the nasty message.
          "This time, I decided to try Dr. Len's method. I kept silently
          saying, 'I'm sorry' and 'I love you,' I didn't say it to anyone in
          particular. I was simply evoking the spirit of love to heal within
          me what was creating the outer circumstance.
          "Within an hour I got an e-mail from the same person. He apologized
          for his previous message. Keep in mind that I didn't take any
          outward action to get that apology. I didn't even write him back.
          Yet, by saying 'I love you,' I somehow healed within me what was
          creating him.
          "I later attended a ho 'oponopono workshop run by Dr. Len. He's now
          70 years old, considered a grandfatherly shaman, and is somewhat
          reclusive.
          He praised my book, The Attractor Factor. He told me that as I
          improve myself, my book's vibration will raise, and everyone will
          feel it when they read it. In short, as I improve, my readers will
          improve.
          "'What about the books that are already sold and out there?' I
          asked.
          "'They aren't out there,' he explained, once again blowing my mind
          with his mystic wisdom. 'They are still in you.' In short, there is
          no out there. It would take a whole book to explain this advanced
          technique with the depth it deserves.
          "Suffice It to say that whenever you want to improve anything in
          your life, there's only one place to look: inside you. When you
          look, do it with love."



          Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
          in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A.

        • Gia Bibileishvili
          I understand your point Juliana, but to me it sounded quite strange..we are interconnected with each other but that doesn t mean that we should somehow
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 23, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            I understand your point Juliana, but to me it sounded quite strange..we are interconnected with each other but that doesn't mean that we should somehow intervene in others life or even others karma and change something w/o knowing what we are doing and without acknowledging even what love means and to whom/what it is directed..This article is full of obscure information that leaves nothing but ambiguity to me...

            Juliana <juliana.klinko@...> wrote:
            But maybe - it is just an opinion among others - this has something to do with the fact that we are all united and by improving ourselves we are not being selfish, because we are improving all humanity once all humanity is in each one of us. I guess that the love he was 'sending' was for that people and not to him, maybe he knew that people was in him, somehow.
             
            But, maybe, I am wrong.
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 4:05 PM
            Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] Fwd: Ho'Oponopono Healing

            Sounds strange and too egoistic...it reminds me of subjective idealism..Anyone can say anything but the fact is that we live in a world and our normal perception mean some clear distinctions, reactions etc. To be short there is you and it , subject and object, facts that you are unable to change and some facts you can change with your deeds etc..its life..but to me this teaching is meaningless. .love directed towards yourself is the classic definition of narcissism, isn't ..but love directed to others is truly humanistic approach to the world. We should think twice before accepting such ideas without properly examining them...it smells evil here..
             
             
            Gia

            Elsa Santos <elsamagosa@yahoo. com> wrote:
            HO'OPONOPONO
            by Joe Vitale
            "Two years ago, I heard about a therapist in Hawaii who cured a
            complete ward of criminally insane patients--without ever seeing any
            of them. The psychologist would study an inmate's chart and then
            look within himself to see how he created that person's illness. As
            he improved himself, the patient improved.
            "When I first heard this story, I thought it was an urban legend.
            How could anyone heal anyone else by healing himself? How could even
            the best self-improvement master cure the criminally insane? It
            didn't make any sense. It wasn't logical, so I dismissed the story.
            "However, I heard it again a year later. I heard that the therapist
            had used a Hawaiian healing process called ho 'oponopono. I had
            never heard of it, yet I couldn't let it leave my mind. If the story
            was at all true, I had to know more. I had always understood "total
            responsibility" to mean that I am responsible for what I think and
            do.
            Beyond that, it's out of my hands. I think that most people think of
            total responsibility that way. We're responsible for what we do, not
            what anyone else does--but that's wrong.
            "The Hawaiian therapist who healed those mentally ill people would
            teach me an advanced new perspective about total responsibility. His
            name is Dr. Ihaleakala Hew Len. We probably spent an hour talking on
            our first phone call. I asked him to tell me the complete story of
            his work as a therapist.
            He explained that he worked at Hawaii State Hospital for four years.
            That ward where they kept the criminally insane was dangerous.
            Psychologists quit on a monthly basis. The staff called in sick a
            lot or simply quit. People would walk through that ward with their
            backs against the wall, afraid of being attacked by patients. It was
            not a pleasant place to live, work, or visit.
            "Dr. Len told me that he never saw patients. He agreed to have an
            office and to review their files. While he looked at those files, he
            would work on himself. As he worked on himself, patients began to
            heal.
            "'After a few months, patients that had to be shackled were being
            allowed to walk freely,' he told me. 'Others who had to be heavily
            medicated were getting off their medications. And those who had no
            chance of ever being released were being freed.' I was in awe.'Not
            only that,' he went on, 'but the staff began to enjoy coming to
            work.
            Absenteeism and turnover disappeared. We ended up with more staff
            than we needed because patients were being released, and all the
            staff was showing up to work. Today, that ward is closed.'
            "This is where I had to ask the million dollar question: 'What were
            you doing within yourself that caused those people to change?'
            "'I was simply healing the part of me that created them,' he said. I
            didn't understand. Dr. Len explained that total responsibility for
            your life means that everything in your life- simply because it is
            in your life--is your responsibility. In a literal sense the entire
            world is your creation.
            "Whew. This is tough to swallow. Being responsible for what I say or
            do is one thing. Being responsible for what everyone in my life says
            or does is quite another. Yet, the truth is this: if you take
            complete responsibility for your life, then everything you see,
            hear, taste, touch, or in any way experience is your responsibility
            because it is in your life. This means that terrorist activity, the
            president, the economy or anything you experience and don't like--is
            up for you to heal. They don't exist, in a manner of speaking,
            except as projections from inside you. The problem isn't with them,
            it's with you, and to change them, you have to change you.
            "I know this is tough to grasp, let alone accept or actually live.
            Blame is far easier than total responsibility, but as I spoke with
            Dr. Len, I began to realize that healing for him and in
            ho 'oponopono means loving yourself.
            "If you want to improve your life, you have to heal your life. If
            you want to cure anyone, even a mentally ill criminal you do it by
            healing you.
            "I asked Dr. Len how he went about healing himself. What was he
            doing, exactly, when he looked at those patients' files?
            "'I just kept saying, 'I'm sorry' and 'I love you' over and over
            again,' he explained.
            "That's it?
            "That's it.
            "Turns out that loving yourself is the greatest way to improve
            yourself, and as you improve yourself, you improve your world.
            "Let me give you a quick example of how this works: one day, someone
            sent me an email that upset me. In the past I would have handled it
            by working on my emotional hot buttons or by trying to reason with
            the person who sent the nasty message.
            "This time, I decided to try Dr. Len's method. I kept silently
            saying, 'I'm sorry' and 'I love you,' I didn't say it to anyone in
            particular. I was simply evoking the spirit of love to heal within
            me what was creating the outer circumstance.
            "Within an hour I got an e-mail from the same person. He apologized
            for his previous message. Keep in mind that I didn't take any
            outward action to get that apology. I didn't even write him back.
            Yet, by saying 'I love you,' I somehow healed within me what was
            creating him.
            "I later attended a ho 'oponopono workshop run by Dr. Len. He's now
            70 years old, considered a grandfatherly shaman, and is somewhat
            reclusive.
            He praised my book, The Attractor Factor. He told me that as I
            improve myself, my book's vibration will raise, and everyone will
            feel it when they read it. In short, as I improve, my readers will
            improve.
            "'What about the books that are already sold and out there?' I
            asked.
            "'They aren't out there,' he explained, once again blowing my mind
            with his mystic wisdom. 'They are still in you.' In short, there is
            no out there. It would take a whole book to explain this advanced
            technique with the depth it deserves.
            "Suffice It to say that whenever you want to improve anything in
            your life, there's only one place to look: inside you. When you
            look, do it with love."



            Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
            in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A.


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          • Elsa Santos
            Some more info to stimulate more thought: 100% Responsibility and the Promise of a Hot Fudge Sundae An Interview with Ihaleakala Hew Len By Cat Saunders How
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 23, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Some more info to stimulate more thought:

              "100% Responsibility and the Promise of a Hot Fudge Sundae
              An Interview with Ihaleakala Hew Len
              By Cat Saunders
              How do you thank someone who has helped to set you free? How do
              you thank a man whose gentle spirit and zinger statements have
              forever altered the course of your life? Ihaleakala Hew Len is such
              a man for me. Like a soul brother who shows up unexpectedly in an
              hour of need, Ihaleakala came into my life in March of 1985, during
              a time of massive change for me. I met him during a training
              called "Self I-Dentity Through Ho'oponopono," which he facilitated
              along with the late Morrnah Nalamaku Simeona, a native Hawaiian
              kahuna ("keeper of the secret").

              For me, Ihaleakala and Morrnah are part of the rhythm of life.
              Though I love them both dearly, I don't really dwell on thoughts of
              them as people, yet their influence is always there for me, beating
              a steady pulse like African drums in the night. Recently, I had the
              honor of being asked to interview Ihaleakala by The Foundation of I,
              Inc. (Freedom of the Cosmos), an organization founded by Morrnah. It
              was an even greater honor to learn that he would be coming from his
              home in Hawaii to meet with me personally.

              Dr. Ihaleakala S. Hew Len is the foundation's president and
              administrator. Together with Morrnah, Ihaleakala has worked with
              thousands of people over the years, including groups at the United
              Nations, UNESCO (United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural
              Organization), International Human Unity Conference on World Peace,
              World Peace Conference, Traditional Indian Medicine Conference,
              Healers for Peace in Europe, and the Hawaii State Teachers
              Association. He also has extensive experience working with
              developmentally disabled people and with the criminally mentally ill
              and their families. In all his work as an educator, the Ho'oponopono
              process supports and permeates every breath of his efforts.

              Simply put, Ho'oponopono means, "to make right," or "to rectify
              an error." According to the ancient Hawaiians, error arises from
              thoughts that are tainted by painful memories from the past.
              Ho'oponopono offers a way to release the energy of these painful
              thoughts, or errors, which cause imbalance and disease.

              Along with the updated Ho'oponopono process, Morrnah was guided
              to include the three parts of the self, which are the key to Self I-
              Dentity. These three parts — which exist in every molecule of
              reality — are called the Unihipili (child/subconscious), the Uhane
              (mother/conscious), and the Aumakua (father/superconscious). When
              this "inner family" is in alignment, a person is in rhythm with the
              Divinity. With this balance, life begins to flow. Thus, Ho'oponopono
              helps restore balance in the individual first, and then in all of
              creation.

              By introducing me to this three-part system, along with the most
              powerful forgiveness process I know (Ho'oponopono), Ihaleakala and
              Morrnah taught me this: the best way to bring healing to every part
              of my life — and to the entire universe — is to take 100%
              responsibility and work on myself. In addition, they taught the
              simple wisdom of total self-care. As Ihaleakala said in a thank-you
              note after our interview: "You take good care of yourself. If you
              do, all will be beneficiaries."

              Once, Ihaleakala left for an entire afternoon in the middle of a
              training I was taking, because his Unihipili (child/subconscious)
              told him to go to his hotel and take a long nap. Of course, he was
              responsible about leaving, and Morrnah was there to teach. Even
              still, his exit made a lasting impression on me. For someone like
              me, raised in a family and culture that admonished me to put others
              first, Ihaleakala's actions astounded and delighted me. He got his
              nap, and I got an unforgettable lesson in self-care.


              Cat: Ihaleakala, when I met you in 1985, I'd just started
              private practice after working as a counselor in agencies for four
              years. I remember you said, "All therapy is a form of manipulation."
              I thought, "Jeez! What am I supposed to do now?" I knew you were
              right, so I almost quit! Obviously, I didn't, but that statement
              completely changed the way I work with people.

              Ihaleakala: Manipulation happens when I (as a therapist) come
              from the idea that you are ill and I am going to work on you. On the
              other hand, it's not manipulation if I realize that you are coming
              to me to give me a chance to look at what's going on in me. There's
              a big difference.

              If therapy is about your belief that you're there to save the
              other person, heal the other person, or direct the other person,
              then the information you bring will come out of the intellect, the
              conscious mind. But the intellect has no real understanding of
              problems and how to approach them. The intellect is so picayunish is
              its way of solving problems! It doesn't realize that when a problem
              is solved by transmutation — by using Ho'oponopono or related
              processes — then the problem and everything related to it is solved,
              even at microscopic levels and back to the beginning of time.

              So first of all, I think the most important question to ask
              is, "What is a problem?" If you ask people this, there's no clarity.
              Because there's no clarity, they make up some way of solving the
              problem…

              Cat: … as if the problem is "out there."

              Ihaleakala: Yes. For example, the other day I got a call from
              the daughter of a woman who is 92. She said, "My mother's had these
              severe hip pains for several weeks." While she's talking to me, I'm
              asking this question of the Divinity, "What is going on in me that I
              have caused that woman's pain?" And then I ask, "How is it that I
              can rectify that problem within me?" The answers to these questions
              come, and I do whatever I'm told.

              Maybe a week later the woman calls me and says, "My mother's
              feeling better now!" This doesn't mean the problem won't recur,
              because there are often multiple causes for what appears to be the
              same problem.

              Cat: I have a lot of recurring illness and chronic pain. I work
              with it all the time, using Ho'oponopono and other clearing
              processes to make amends for all the pain I've caused since the
              beginning of time.

              Ihaleakala: Yes. The idea being that people like us are in the
              healing professions because we have caused a lot of pain.

              Cat: Big time!

              Ihaleakala: How wonderful to know that, and to have people pay
              us for having caused them their problems!

              I said this to a woman in New York, and she said, "God, if only
              they knew!" But you see, nobody knows. Psychologists, psychiatrists,
              they keep thinking that they're there to help heal the other person.

              So if someone like you comes to me, I say to the
              Divinity, "Please, whatever is going on in me that I have caused
              this pain in Cat, tell me how I can rectify it." And I will apply
              whatever information I'm given indefinitely, until your pain is gone
              or until you ask me to stop. It's not so much the effect that is
              important as the getting to the problem. That's the key.

              Cat: You don't focus on the outcome, because we're not in charge
              of that.

              Ihaleakala: Right. We can only petition.

              Cat: We also don't know when a particular pain or illness will
              shift.

              Ihaleakala: Yes. Say a woman has been taking an herb that was
              suggested for her, and it's not working. Again, the question
              is "What's going on in me that this woman is experiencing this herb
              not working for her?" I would work on that. I would keep cleaning,
              keep my mouth closed, and allow the process of transmutation to take
              place. As soon as you engage the intellect, the process stops. The
              thing to remember when some kind of healing doesn't seem to be
              working is this: there may be multiple errors — multiple problems or
              painful memories that are causing the pain. We know nothing! Only
              the Divinity knows what's really going on.

              I gave a presentation out in Dallas last month, and I spoke with
              this woman, a Reiki master. I said, "Let me ask you a question. When
              somebody comes to you with a problem, where is that problem?" She
              looked puzzled when I said, "You're the one who caused the problem,
              so your client is going to pay you to heal your problem!" Nobody
              gets that.

              Cat: 100% responsibility.

              Ihaleakala: 100% knowing that you're the cause of the problem.
              100% knowing that you have the responsibility, then, to rectify the
              error. Can you imagine if we all knew we are 100% responsible?

              I made a deal with myself ten years ago that I would treat
              myself to a hot fudge sundae — so huge it would make me sick — if I
              could get through the day without having some judgment of someone.
              I've never been able to do it! I notice I catch myself more often,
              but I never get through a day.

              So how do I get that across to people — that we are each 100%
              responsible for problems? If you want to solve a problem, no matter
              what kind of problem, work on yourself. If the problem is with
              another person, for example, just ask yourself, "What's going on in
              me that's causing this person to bug me?" People only show up in
              your life to bug you! If you know that, you can elevate any
              situation, and you can release there. It's simple: "I'm sorry for
              whatever's going on. Please forgive me."

              Cat: You don't have to actually say that out loud to them, and
              you don't even have to understand the problem.

              Ihaleakala: That's the beauty of this. You don't have to
              understand. It's like the Internet. You don't understand all this!
              You just go to the Divinity and you say, "Can we download?" and the
              Divinity downloads, and then you get the necessary information. But
              because we don't know who we are, we never download direct from the
              Light. We go outside.

              I remember Morrnah used to say, "It's an inside job." If you
              want to be successful, it's an inside job. Work on yourself!

              Cat: I know that 100% responsibility is the only thing that
              works, but I used to struggle with this stuff, because I'm an overly
              responsible caretaker type. When I heard you talking about 100%
              responsibility not just for myself, but for every situation and
              problem, I thought, "Whoa! This is crazy! I don't need anybody
              telling me to be even more responsible!" Yet the more I thought
              about it, the more I realized that there's a big difference between
              overly responsible caretaking, versus totally responsible self-care.
              One is about being a good little girl, and the other is about
              getting free.

              I remember you talking about the years when you were a staff
              psychologist at Hawaii State Hospital for the Criminally Insane. You
              said that when you started working there, the ward for criminals was
              full of violence, and when you left four years later, there was
              none.

              Ihaleakala: Basically, I took 100% responsibility. I just worked
              on myself.

              Cat: You said that when you worked with the inmates, they
              wouldn't even be there with you.

              Ihaleakala: Right. I would only go into the building to check
              the results. If they still looked depressed, then I'd work on myself
              some more.

              Cat: Would you tell a story about using Ho'oponopono for so-
              called inanimate objects?

              Ihaleakala: I was in an auditorium once getting ready to do a
              lecture, and I was talking to the chairs. I asked, "Is there anybody
              I've missed? Does anyone have a problem that I need to take care
              of?" One of the chairs said, "You know, there was a guy sitting on
              me today during a previous seminar who had financial problems, and
              now I just feel dead!" So I cleaned with that problem, and I could
              just see the chair straightening up. Then I heard, "Okay! I'm ready
              to handle the next guy!"

              What I actually try to do is teach the room. I say to the room
              and everything in it, "Do you want to learn how to do Ho'oponopono?
              After all, I'm going to leave soon. Wouldn't it be nice if you could
              do this work for yourselves? Some say yes, some say no, and some
              say, "I'm too tired!"

              Then I ask the Divinity, "If they say they would like to learn,
              how can I help them learn?" Most of the time, I get this: "Leave the
              blue book (Self I-Dentity Through Ho'oponopono) with them." So I
              just take the blue book out and leave it on one of the chairs or on
              a table while I'm talking. We don't give tables enough credit for
              being quiet and aware of what is going on!

              Ho'oponopono is really very simple. For the ancient Hawaiians,
              all problems begin as thought. But having a thought is not the
              problem. So what's the problem? The problem is that all our thoughts
              are imbued with painful memories, memories of persons, places, or
              things.

              The intellect working alone can't solve these problems, because
              the intellect only manages. Managing things is no way to solve
              problems. You want to let them go! When you do Ho'oponopono, what
              happens is that the Divinity takes the painful thought and
              neutralizes or purifies it. You don't purify the person, place, or
              thing. You neutralize the energy you associate with that person,
              place, or thing. So the first stage of Ho'oponopono is the
              purification of that energy.

              Now something wonderful happens. Not only does that energy get
              neutralized; it also gets released, so there's a brand new slate.
              Buddhists call it the Void. The final step is that you allow the
              Divinity to come in and fill the void with light.

              To do Ho'oponopono, you don't have to know what the problem or
              error is. All you have to do is notice any problem you are
              experiencing physically, mentally, emotionally, whatever. Once you
              notice, your responsibility is to immediately begin to clean, to
              say, "I'm sorry. Please forgive me."

              Cat: So the true job of the intellect is not to solve problems,
              but to ask for forgiveness.

              Ihaleakala: Yes. My job here on earth is twofold. My job is
              first of all to make amends. My second job is to awaken people who
              might be asleep. Almost everyone is asleep! The only way I can
              awaken them is to work on myself. Our interview is an example. For
              weeks before our appointment today, I've been doing the clearing
              work, so when you and I meet, it's like two pools of water coming
              together. They move through and they go. That's all.

              Cat: In ten years of doing interviews, this is the only one I
              didn't prepare for. Every time I checked in, my Unihipili said that
              I should just come and be with you. My intellect went nuts trying to
              convince me that I should prepare, but I didn't.

              Ihaleakala: Good for you! The Unihipili can be really fun. One
              day I was coming down the highway in Hawaii. When I started to head
              toward the usual off-ramp, I heard my Unihipili say in a singing
              voice, "I wouldn't go down there if I were you." I thought, "But I
              always go there." Then when we got closer, about fifty yards away, I
              heard, "Hello! I wouldn't go down there if I were you!" Second
              chance. "But we always go down there!"

              Now I'm talking out loud and people in cars around me are
              looking at me like I'm crazy. About 25 yards away, I hear a loud, "I
              wouldn't go down there if I were you!" I went down there, and I sat
              for two and a half hours. There was a huge accident. Couldn't move
              back, couldn't move forward. Finally, I heard my Unihipili
              say, "Told you!" Then it wouldn't talk to me for weeks! I mean, why
              talk to me if I wasn't going to listen?

              I remember one time when I was going to be on television to talk
              about Ho'oponopono. My children heard about it and they said, "Dad,
              we heard you are going to be on TV. Make sure your socks match!"
              They didn't care what I said. They just cared that my socks matched.
              See how children know the important things in life?


              ---------------------------------------------------------------------
              -----------
              This interview was originally published by The New Times in
              September 1997"
            • chanting_om
              ... The road is long With many a winding turn That leads us to who knows where Who knows when But I m strong Strong enough to carry him He ain t heavy, he s my
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 23, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Elsa Santos" <elsamagosa@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > HO'OPONOPONO

                The road is long
                With many a winding turn
                That leads us to who knows where
                Who knows when
                But I'm strong
                Strong enough to carry him
                He ain't heavy, he's my brother

                So on we go
                His welfare is of my concern
                No burden is he to bear
                We'll get there
                For I know
                He would not encumber me
                He ain't heavy, he's my brother

                If I'm laden at all
                I'm laden with sadness
                That everyone's heart
                Isn't filled with the gladness
                Of love for one another

                It's a long, long road
                From which there is no return
                While we're on the way to there
                Why not share
                And the load
                Doesn't weigh me down at all
                He ain't heavy, he's my brother

                He's my brother
                He ain't heavy, he's my brother !


                > by Joe Vitale
                > "Two years ago, I heard about a therapist in Hawaii who cured a
                > complete ward of criminally insane patients--without ever seeing
                any
                > of them. The psychologist would study an inmate's chart and then
                > look within himself to see how he created that person's illness. As
                > he improved himself, the patient improved.
                > "When I first heard this story, I thought it was an urban legend.
                > How could anyone heal anyone else by healing himself? How could
                even
                > the best self-improvement master cure the criminally insane? It
                > didn't make any sense. It wasn't logical, so I dismissed the story.
                > "However, I heard it again a year later. I heard that the therapist
                > had used a Hawaiian healing process called ho 'oponopono. I had
                > never heard of it, yet I couldn't let it leave my mind. If the
                story
                > was at all true, I had to know more. I had always understood "total
                > responsibility" to mean that I am responsible for what I think and
                > do.
                > Beyond that, it's out of my hands. I think that most people think
                of
                > total responsibility that way. We're responsible for what we do,
                not
                > what anyone else does--but that's wrong.
                > "The Hawaiian therapist who healed those mentally ill people would
                > teach me an advanced new perspective about total responsibility.
                His
                > name is Dr. Ihaleakala Hew Len. We probably spent an hour talking
                on
                > our first phone call. I asked him to tell me the complete story of
                > his work as a therapist.
                > He explained that he worked at Hawaii State Hospital for four
                years.
                > That ward where they kept the criminally insane was dangerous.
                > Psychologists quit on a monthly basis. The staff called in sick a
                > lot or simply quit. People would walk through that ward with their
                > backs against the wall, afraid of being attacked by patients. It
                was
                > not a pleasant place to live, work, or visit.
                > "Dr. Len told me that he never saw patients. He agreed to have an
                > office and to review their files. While he looked at those files,
                he
                > would work on himself. As he worked on himself, patients began to
                > heal.
                > "'After a few months, patients that had to be shackled were being
                > allowed to walk freely,' he told me. 'Others who had to be heavily
                > medicated were getting off their medications. And those who had no
                > chance of ever being released were being freed.' I was in awe.'Not
                > only that,' he went on, 'but the staff began to enjoy coming to
                > work.
                > Absenteeism and turnover disappeared. We ended up with more staff
                > than we needed because patients were being released, and all the
                > staff was showing up to work. Today, that ward is closed.'
                > "This is where I had to ask the million dollar question: 'What were
                > you doing within yourself that caused those people to change?'
                > "'I was simply healing the part of me that created them,' he said.
                I
                > didn't understand. Dr. Len explained that total responsibility for
                > your life means that everything in your life- simply because it is
                > in your life--is your responsibility. In a literal sense the entire
                > world is your creation.
                > "Whew. This is tough to swallow. Being responsible for what I say
                or
                > do is one thing. Being responsible for what everyone in my life
                says
                > or does is quite another. Yet, the truth is this: if you take
                > complete responsibility for your life, then everything you see,
                > hear, taste, touch, or in any way experience is your responsibility
                > because it is in your life. This means that terrorist activity, the
                > president, the economy or anything you experience and don't like--
                is
                > up for you to heal. They don't exist, in a manner of speaking,
                > except as projections from inside you. The problem isn't with them,
                > it's with you, and to change them, you have to change you.
                > "I know this is tough to grasp, let alone accept or actually live.
                > Blame is far easier than total responsibility, but as I spoke with
                > Dr. Len, I began to realize that healing for him and in
                > ho 'oponopono means loving yourself.
                > "If you want to improve your life, you have to heal your life. If
                > you want to cure anyone, even a mentally ill criminal you do it by
                > healing you.
                > "I asked Dr. Len how he went about healing himself. What was he
                > doing, exactly, when he looked at those patients' files?
                > "'I just kept saying, 'I'm sorry' and 'I love you' over and over
                > again,' he explained.
                > "That's it?
                > "That's it.
                > "Turns out that loving yourself is the greatest way to improve
                > yourself, and as you improve yourself, you improve your world.
                > "Let me give you a quick example of how this works: one day,
                someone
                > sent me an email that upset me. In the past I would have handled it
                > by working on my emotional hot buttons or by trying to reason with
                > the person who sent the nasty message.
                > "This time, I decided to try Dr. Len's method. I kept silently
                > saying, 'I'm sorry' and 'I love you,' I didn't say it to anyone in
                > particular. I was simply evoking the spirit of love to heal within
                > me what was creating the outer circumstance.
                > "Within an hour I got an e-mail from the same person. He apologized
                > for his previous message. Keep in mind that I didn't take any
                > outward action to get that apology. I didn't even write him back.
                > Yet, by saying 'I love you,' I somehow healed within me what was
                > creating him.
                > "I later attended a ho 'oponopono workshop run by Dr. Len. He's now
                > 70 years old, considered a grandfatherly shaman, and is somewhat
                > reclusive.
                > He praised my book, The Attractor Factor. He told me that as I
                > improve myself, my book's vibration will raise, and everyone will
                > feel it when they read it. In short, as I improve, my readers will
                > improve.
                > "'What about the books that are already sold and out there?' I
                > asked.
                > "'They aren't out there,' he explained, once again blowing my mind
                > with his mystic wisdom. 'They are still in you.' In short, there is
                > no out there. It would take a whole book to explain this advanced
                > technique with the depth it deserves.
                > "Suffice It to say that whenever you want to improve anything in
                > your life, there's only one place to look: inside you. When you
                > look, do it with love."
                >
              • elfkinszee
                ... wrote: Ho Oponopono Healing Can I add another song. I like songs and this Ho Oponopono Healing reminds me of songs.. ... Bridge Over Trouble Water When
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 23, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Elsa Santos" <elsamagosa@...>
                  wrote:

                  Ho'Oponopono Healing

                  Can I add another song. I like songs and this Ho'Oponopono Healing
                  reminds me of songs..

                  >
                  Bridge Over Trouble Water

                  When you're weary, feeling small,
                  When tears are in your eyes, I will dry them all;
                  I'm on your side. When times get rough
                  And friends just can't be found,
                  Like a bridge over troubled water
                  I will lay me down.
                  Like a bridge over troubled water
                  I will lay me down.

                  When you're down and out,
                  When you're on the street,
                  When evening falls so hard
                  I will comfort you.
                  I'll take your part.
                  When darkness comes
                  And pain is all around,
                  Like a bridge over troubled water
                  I will lay me down.
                  Like a bridge over troubled water
                  I will lay me down.

                  Sail on silvergirl,
                  Sail on by.
                  Your time has come to shine.
                  All your dreams are on their way.
                  See how they shine
                  If you need a friend
                  I'm sailing right behind.

                  Like a bridge over troubled water
                  I will ease your mind.
                  Like a bridge over troubled water
                  I will ease your mind.


                  >
                  > "100% Responsibility and the Promise of a Hot Fudge Sundae
                  > An Interview with Ihaleakala Hew Len
                  > By Cat Saunders
                  > How do you thank someone who has helped to set you free? How do
                  > you thank a man whose gentle spirit and zinger statements have
                  > forever altered the course of your life? Ihaleakala Hew Len is such
                  > a man for me. Like a soul brother who shows up unexpectedly in an
                  > hour of need, Ihaleakala came into my life in March of 1985, during
                  > a time of massive change for me. I met him during a training
                  > called "Self I-Dentity Through Ho'oponopono," which he facilitated
                  > along with the late Morrnah Nalamaku Simeona, a native Hawaiian
                  > kahuna ("keeper of the secret").
                  >
                  > For me, Ihaleakala and Morrnah are part of the rhythm of life.
                  > Though I love them both dearly, I don't really dwell on thoughts of
                  > them as people, yet their influence is always there for me, beating
                  > a steady pulse like African drums in the night. Recently, I had the
                  > honor of being asked to interview Ihaleakala by The Foundation of
                  I,
                  > Inc. (Freedom of the Cosmos), an organization founded by Morrnah.
                  It
                  > was an even greater honor to learn that he would be coming from his
                  > home in Hawaii to meet with me personally.
                  >
                  > Dr. Ihaleakala S. Hew Len is the foundation's president and
                  > administrator. Together with Morrnah, Ihaleakala has worked with
                  > thousands of people over the years, including groups at the United
                  > Nations, UNESCO (United Nations Educational, Scientific and
                  Cultural
                  > Organization), International Human Unity Conference on World Peace,
                  > World Peace Conference, Traditional Indian Medicine Conference,
                  > Healers for Peace in Europe, and the Hawaii State Teachers
                  > Association. He also has extensive experience working with
                  > developmentally disabled people and with the criminally mentally
                  ill
                  > and their families. In all his work as an educator, the
                  Ho'oponopono
                  > process supports and permeates every breath of his efforts.
                  >
                  > Simply put, Ho'oponopono means, "to make right," or "to rectify
                  > an error." According to the ancient Hawaiians, error arises from
                  > thoughts that are tainted by painful memories from the past.
                  > Ho'oponopono offers a way to release the energy of these painful
                  > thoughts, or errors, which cause imbalance and disease.
                  >
                  > Along with the updated Ho'oponopono process, Morrnah was guided
                  > to include the three parts of the self, which are the key to Self I-
                  > Dentity. These three parts — which exist in every molecule of
                  > reality — are called the Unihipili (child/subconscious), the Uhane
                  > (mother/conscious), and the Aumakua (father/superconscious). When
                  > this "inner family" is in alignment, a person is in rhythm with the
                  > Divinity. With this balance, life begins to flow. Thus,
                  Ho'oponopono
                  > helps restore balance in the individual first, and then in all of
                  > creation.
                  >
                  > By introducing me to this three-part system, along with the
                  most
                  > powerful forgiveness process I know (Ho'oponopono), Ihaleakala and
                  > Morrnah taught me this: the best way to bring healing to every part
                  > of my life — and to the entire universe — is to take 100%
                  > responsibility and work on myself. In addition, they taught the
                  > simple wisdom of total self-care. As Ihaleakala said in a thank-you
                  > note after our interview: "You take good care of yourself. If you
                  > do, all will be beneficiaries."
                  >
                  > Once, Ihaleakala left for an entire afternoon in the middle of
                  a
                  > training I was taking, because his Unihipili (child/subconscious)
                  > told him to go to his hotel and take a long nap. Of course, he was
                  > responsible about leaving, and Morrnah was there to teach. Even
                  > still, his exit made a lasting impression on me. For someone like
                  > me, raised in a family and culture that admonished me to put others
                  > first, Ihaleakala's actions astounded and delighted me. He got his
                  > nap, and I got an unforgettable lesson in self-care.
                  >
                  >
                  > Cat: Ihaleakala, when I met you in 1985, I'd just started
                  > private practice after working as a counselor in agencies for four
                  > years. I remember you said, "All therapy is a form of
                  manipulation."
                  > I thought, "Jeez! What am I supposed to do now?" I knew you were
                  > right, so I almost quit! Obviously, I didn't, but that statement
                  > completely changed the way I work with people.
                  >
                  > Ihaleakala: Manipulation happens when I (as a therapist) come
                  > from the idea that you are ill and I am going to work on you. On
                  the
                  > other hand, it's not manipulation if I realize that you are coming
                  > to me to give me a chance to look at what's going on in me. There's
                  > a big difference.
                  >
                  > If therapy is about your belief that you're there to save the
                  > other person, heal the other person, or direct the other person,
                  > then the information you bring will come out of the intellect, the
                  > conscious mind. But the intellect has no real understanding of
                  > problems and how to approach them. The intellect is so picayunish
                  is
                  > its way of solving problems! It doesn't realize that when a problem
                  > is solved by transmutation — by using Ho'oponopono or related
                  > processes — then the problem and everything related to it is
                  solved,
                  > even at microscopic levels and back to the beginning of time.
                  >
                  > So first of all, I think the most important question to ask
                  > is, "What is a problem?" If you ask people this, there's no
                  clarity.
                  > Because there's no clarity, they make up some way of solving the
                  > problem…
                  >
                  > Cat: … as if the problem is "out there."
                  >
                  > Ihaleakala: Yes. For example, the other day I got a call from
                  > the daughter of a woman who is 92. She said, "My mother's had these
                  > severe hip pains for several weeks." While she's talking to me, I'm
                  > asking this question of the Divinity, "What is going on in me that
                  I
                  > have caused that woman's pain?" And then I ask, "How is it that I
                  > can rectify that problem within me?" The answers to these questions
                  > come, and I do whatever I'm told.
                  >
                  > Maybe a week later the woman calls me and says, "My mother's
                  > feeling better now!" This doesn't mean the problem won't recur,
                  > because there are often multiple causes for what appears to be the
                  > same problem.
                  >
                  > Cat: I have a lot of recurring illness and chronic pain. I work
                  > with it all the time, using Ho'oponopono and other clearing
                  > processes to make amends for all the pain I've caused since the
                  > beginning of time.
                  >
                  > Ihaleakala: Yes. The idea being that people like us are in the
                  > healing professions because we have caused a lot of pain.
                  >
                  > Cat: Big time!
                  >
                  > Ihaleakala: How wonderful to know that, and to have people pay
                  > us for having caused them their problems!
                  >
                  > I said this to a woman in New York, and she said, "God, if only
                  > they knew!" But you see, nobody knows. Psychologists,
                  psychiatrists,
                  > they keep thinking that they're there to help heal the other
                  person.
                  >
                  > So if someone like you comes to me, I say to the
                  > Divinity, "Please, whatever is going on in me that I have caused
                  > this pain in Cat, tell me how I can rectify it." And I will apply
                  > whatever information I'm given indefinitely, until your pain is
                  gone
                  > or until you ask me to stop. It's not so much the effect that is
                  > important as the getting to the problem. That's the key.
                  >
                  > Cat: You don't focus on the outcome, because we're not in
                  charge
                  > of that.
                  >
                  > Ihaleakala: Right. We can only petition.
                  >
                  > Cat: We also don't know when a particular pain or illness will
                  > shift.
                  >
                  > Ihaleakala: Yes. Say a woman has been taking an herb that was
                  > suggested for her, and it's not working. Again, the question
                  > is "What's going on in me that this woman is experiencing this herb
                  > not working for her?" I would work on that. I would keep cleaning,
                  > keep my mouth closed, and allow the process of transmutation to
                  take
                  > place. As soon as you engage the intellect, the process stops. The
                  > thing to remember when some kind of healing doesn't seem to be
                  > working is this: there may be multiple errors — multiple problems
                  or
                  > painful memories that are causing the pain. We know nothing! Only
                  > the Divinity knows what's really going on.
                  >
                  > I gave a presentation out in Dallas last month, and I spoke
                  with
                  > this woman, a Reiki master. I said, "Let me ask you a question.
                  When
                  > somebody comes to you with a problem, where is that problem?" She
                  > looked puzzled when I said, "You're the one who caused the problem,
                  > so your client is going to pay you to heal your problem!" Nobody
                  > gets that.
                  >
                  > Cat: 100% responsibility.
                  >
                  > Ihaleakala: 100% knowing that you're the cause of the problem.
                  > 100% knowing that you have the responsibility, then, to rectify the
                  > error. Can you imagine if we all knew we are 100% responsible?
                  >
                  > I made a deal with myself ten years ago that I would treat
                  > myself to a hot fudge sundae — so huge it would make me sick — if I
                  > could get through the day without having some judgment of someone.
                  > I've never been able to do it! I notice I catch myself more often,
                  > but I never get through a day.
                  >
                  > So how do I get that across to people — that we are each 100%
                  > responsible for problems? If you want to solve a problem, no matter
                  > what kind of problem, work on yourself. If the problem is with
                  > another person, for example, just ask yourself, "What's going on in
                  > me that's causing this person to bug me?" People only show up in
                  > your life to bug you! If you know that, you can elevate any
                  > situation, and you can release there. It's simple: "I'm sorry for
                  > whatever's going on. Please forgive me."
                  >
                  > Cat: You don't have to actually say that out loud to them, and
                  > you don't even have to understand the problem.
                  >
                  > Ihaleakala: That's the beauty of this. You don't have to
                  > understand. It's like the Internet. You don't understand all this!
                  > You just go to the Divinity and you say, "Can we download?" and the
                  > Divinity downloads, and then you get the necessary information. But
                  > because we don't know who we are, we never download direct from the
                  > Light. We go outside.
                  >
                  > I remember Morrnah used to say, "It's an inside job." If you
                  > want to be successful, it's an inside job. Work on yourself!
                  >
                  > Cat: I know that 100% responsibility is the only thing that
                  > works, but I used to struggle with this stuff, because I'm an
                  overly
                  > responsible caretaker type. When I heard you talking about 100%
                  > responsibility not just for myself, but for every situation and
                  > problem, I thought, "Whoa! This is crazy! I don't need anybody
                  > telling me to be even more responsible!" Yet the more I thought
                  > about it, the more I realized that there's a big difference between
                  > overly responsible caretaking, versus totally responsible self-
                  care.
                  > One is about being a good little girl, and the other is about
                  > getting free.
                  >
                  > I remember you talking about the years when you were a staff
                  > psychologist at Hawaii State Hospital for the Criminally Insane.
                  You
                  > said that when you started working there, the ward for criminals
                  was
                  > full of violence, and when you left four years later, there was
                  > none.
                  >
                  > Ihaleakala: Basically, I took 100% responsibility. I just
                  worked
                  > on myself.
                  >
                  > Cat: You said that when you worked with the inmates, they
                  > wouldn't even be there with you.
                  >
                  > Ihaleakala: Right. I would only go into the building to check
                  > the results. If they still looked depressed, then I'd work on
                  myself
                  > some more.
                  >
                  > Cat: Would you tell a story about using Ho'oponopono for so-
                  > called inanimate objects?
                  >
                  > Ihaleakala: I was in an auditorium once getting ready to do a
                  > lecture, and I was talking to the chairs. I asked, "Is there
                  anybody
                  > I've missed? Does anyone have a problem that I need to take care
                  > of?" One of the chairs said, "You know, there was a guy sitting on
                  > me today during a previous seminar who had financial problems, and
                  > now I just feel dead!" So I cleaned with that problem, and I could
                  > just see the chair straightening up. Then I heard, "Okay! I'm ready
                  > to handle the next guy!"
                  >
                  > What I actually try to do is teach the room. I say to the room
                  > and everything in it, "Do you want to learn how to do Ho'oponopono?
                  > After all, I'm going to leave soon. Wouldn't it be nice if you
                  could
                  > do this work for yourselves? Some say yes, some say no, and some
                  > say, "I'm too tired!"
                  >
                  > Then I ask the Divinity, "If they say they would like to learn,
                  > how can I help them learn?" Most of the time, I get this: "Leave
                  the
                  > blue book (Self I-Dentity Through Ho'oponopono) with them." So I
                  > just take the blue book out and leave it on one of the chairs or on
                  > a table while I'm talking. We don't give tables enough credit for
                  > being quiet and aware of what is going on!
                  >
                  > Ho'oponopono is really very simple. For the ancient Hawaiians,
                  > all problems begin as thought. But having a thought is not the
                  > problem. So what's the problem? The problem is that all our
                  thoughts
                  > are imbued with painful memories, memories of persons, places, or
                  > things.
                  >
                  > The intellect working alone can't solve these problems, because
                  > the intellect only manages. Managing things is no way to solve
                  > problems. You want to let them go! When you do Ho'oponopono, what
                  > happens is that the Divinity takes the painful thought and
                  > neutralizes or purifies it. You don't purify the person, place, or
                  > thing. You neutralize the energy you associate with that person,
                  > place, or thing. So the first stage of Ho'oponopono is the
                  > purification of that energy.
                  >
                  > Now something wonderful happens. Not only does that energy get
                  > neutralized; it also gets released, so there's a brand new slate.
                  > Buddhists call it the Void. The final step is that you allow the
                  > Divinity to come in and fill the void with light.
                  >
                  > To do Ho'oponopono, you don't have to know what the problem or
                  > error is. All you have to do is notice any problem you are
                  > experiencing physically, mentally, emotionally, whatever. Once you
                  > notice, your responsibility is to immediately begin to clean, to
                  > say, "I'm sorry. Please forgive me."
                  >
                  > Cat: So the true job of the intellect is not to solve problems,
                  > but to ask for forgiveness.
                  >
                  > Ihaleakala: Yes. My job here on earth is twofold. My job is
                  > first of all to make amends. My second job is to awaken people who
                  > might be asleep. Almost everyone is asleep! The only way I can
                  > awaken them is to work on myself. Our interview is an example. For
                  > weeks before our appointment today, I've been doing the clearing
                  > work, so when you and I meet, it's like two pools of water coming
                  > together. They move through and they go. That's all.
                  >
                  > Cat: In ten years of doing interviews, this is the only one I
                  > didn't prepare for. Every time I checked in, my Unihipili said that
                  > I should just come and be with you. My intellect went nuts trying
                  to
                  > convince me that I should prepare, but I didn't.
                  >
                  > Ihaleakala: Good for you! The Unihipili can be really fun. One
                  > day I was coming down the highway in Hawaii. When I started to head
                  > toward the usual off-ramp, I heard my Unihipili say in a singing
                  > voice, "I wouldn't go down there if I were you." I thought, "But I
                  > always go there." Then when we got closer, about fifty yards away,
                  I
                  > heard, "Hello! I wouldn't go down there if I were you!" Second
                  > chance. "But we always go down there!"
                  >
                  > Now I'm talking out loud and people in cars around me are
                  > looking at me like I'm crazy. About 25 yards away, I hear a
                  loud, "I
                  > wouldn't go down there if I were you!" I went down there, and I sat
                  > for two and a half hours. There was a huge accident. Couldn't move
                  > back, couldn't move forward. Finally, I heard my Unihipili
                  > say, "Told you!" Then it wouldn't talk to me for weeks! I mean, why
                  > talk to me if I wasn't going to listen?
                  >
                  > I remember one time when I was going to be on television to
                  talk
                  > about Ho'oponopono. My children heard about it and they said, "Dad,
                  > we heard you are going to be on TV. Make sure your socks match!"
                  > They didn't care what I said. They just cared that my socks
                  matched.
                  > See how children know the important things in life?
                  >
                  >
                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                  -
                  > -----------
                  > This interview was originally published by The New Times in
                  > September 1997"
                  >
                • Valerie Walsh
                  ... It all reminds me of Brother IZ-do you know his music?-Val
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 23, 2007
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                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "elfkinszee"
                    <invisible_warriors@...> wrote:

                    > Can I add another song. I like songs and this Ho'Oponopono Healing
                    > reminds me of songs..

                    It all reminds me of Brother IZ-do you know his music?-Val
                  • Elsa Santos
                    Hi Gia, On the ideia of evil. I just remembered a good book you might like to read (may be available from the free ebook sites I just mentioned). You might
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 24, 2007
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                      Hi Gia,

                      On the ideia of evil. I just remembered a good book you might like
                      to read (may be available from the free ebook sites I just
                      mentioned). You might know it already. It's called "L'arbre de la
                      connaissande du bien et du mal", although I've also seen it
                      translated as "Answers to the question of evil". I think the
                      original is actually in Russian, so maybe you can read it in it's
                      original text, which is great. it is by Omraam Mikhaël Aïvanhov.

                      Quotes from the Author (from Wikipedia):
                      "There are times when you are overwhelmed by the sensation that
                      nothing is going right for you. But it is important to understand
                      that there is no law that obliges you to be relentlessly ground down
                      by fate. Only those who forget that the spirit lives in them are
                      subject to unrelenting fate. Whatever your trials, remind yourself
                      that you are a spirit and are capable of changing your destiny. Of
                      course, you will not be able to change very much to begin with –
                      perhaps your path will veer by only one hundredth of a degree – but
                      if you continue to work in the same direction, you will end by
                      putting a whole solar system between you and fate. What is important
                      is to tap the power of the spirit that is within you."

                      "God first sent Moses to teach men justice later he sent Jesus to
                      teach them love and forgiveness. True, but we must not leave it at
                      that. To forgive our enemies and turn the other cheek is far nobler
                      than to demand an eye for an eye, but there is something even
                      better..."

                      "It is in the midst of difficulties that man develops his
                      intelligence because, in order to overcome them, he must observe,
                      think and become clear-sighted. Nature has put difficulties here and
                      there in life to develop her children's intelligence, but the
                      children do not develop: they waste their time and energy crying,
                      complaining, getting angry and upset, instead of trying to
                      understand and look for solutions. Obviously when they are exhausted
                      they calm down, but the difficulties are still there; their energies
                      are gone but their problems remain. What a weird method! I ask
                      someone, 'How long did you cry? - three hours. - Did you solve the
                      problem? - No. - Well, next time, cry just ten minutes. As you would
                      miss not crying, do it, but no more than ten minutes; and once the
                      ten minutes is over, start thinking!'"


                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gia Bibileishvili <giabib@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > "Sounds strange and too egoistic..." ..."it smells evil here..
                      >
                      >
                      > Gia
                      >
                    • holderlin66
                      To Elsa and all ships at sea, tap in the name Omraam on the internal search of Anthroposophy for this list and see what comes up dating back years. Omraam
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 24, 2007
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                        To Elsa and all ships at sea, tap in the name Omraam on the internal
                        search of Anthroposophy for this list and see what comes up dating
                        back years. Omraam Mikhaël Aïvanhov is unique and runs directly on
                        tracks that support true Spiritual Science studies. In terms of a
                        library of works, Omraam Mikhaël Aïvanhov's works can stand side by
                        side with Steiner and find themselves in agreement at every turn.
                        Which means that it is easier to begin reading Omraam to start off
                        with but in every detail Steiner and Omraam are of one voice for the
                        Michael Nation.

                        Elsa wrote;

                        "...it is by Omraam Mikhaël Aïvanhov."

                        Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov

                        "Transfiguration
                        The transfiguration of Jesus was the sudden bursting out of his
                        spiritual body, his body of glory, on the physical plane, and the
                        sight was unbearable, because it was no longer the physical light to
                        which our eyes are accustomed, but spiritual light, which is the
                        expression of a life so intense that it can strike us down. This is
                        why it is said that the disciples fell to the ground. The moment had
                        not yet come for Jesus to detach his body of glory from his physical
                        body so as to inhabit it permanently, but he was already able to
                        manifest it in all its glory."

                        `Now you must do as I did'

                        "The ideal every true disciple seeks to attain is to build, in the
                        depths of his physical body, the body that is known as the body of
                        glory, the body of immortality, the body of Christ, which is the
                        true body of resurrection. How did Jesus become the Christ? Long,
                        long ago I asked him that question and he said: `I have left a mark
                        on earth, and that mark is indelible because I succeeded in building
                        my body of glory."

                        holderlin wrote:

                        "Paul and Steiner and [Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov} are unique in
                        requesting for a cognitive change of thinking. To understand the
                        Science of the Resurrection it is required to know what the current
                        system IS that we refer to as Human Beings. This system cannot be
                        anything if it is not a Science that has not yet been outlined.
                        Steiner has outlined the science that for Zarathustra/Jesus was the
                        experiment as FACT.

                        "The results of the Fact was the Accomplishment of Spirit Man on
                        Earth. Everything that Spiritual Science adds to the FACT shifts the
                        idea from miracle to the Science of the Resurrection. Without this
                        Science, and without a cognitive shift in the foundations of our
                        human understanding of the basis of what a Human Being is, swirling
                        accounts of God and miracles that grope about without the
                        scaffolding of the human being, cannot serve the ripening and
                        maturity that is required to pull back the curtain and open the
                        world to the age of the Consciousness Soul."

                        http://www.cygnus-
                        books.co.uk/features/body_glory_omraam_mikhael_aivanhov.htm

                        "How we help the body of glory to grow
                        We could say that the body of glory is the body – or dwelling or
                        temple – that we build for the Christ-principle within us. When we
                        experience a highly elevated state of consciousness, we attract
                        luminous particles that contribute to the formation of our body of
                        glory. This is how we help it to grow. It can develop only if it is
                        given the best of ourselves, and if we nourish it with our flesh and
                        blood, our fluid, our very life for a long time, one day it will
                        begin to shine. The body of glory is made of materials that are pure
                        light which neither rust nor tarnish. This is why it is immortal and
                        works wonders, firstly within us and then outside of us.

                        "Every human being can build their body of glory, on one condition,
                        that they endeavour to outdo and surpass themselves in order to
                        attract the purest and most luminous particles. As long as human
                        beings remain on the level of ordinary consciousness, they attract
                        elements, of course, but these elements serve to feed only their
                        astral body. And then their astral body swells up, like that of the
                        rich man in the parable, and prevents them from passing through the
                        gateway to the kingdom of God. Something within us is constantly
                        being fed by our thoughts and feelings, by the way we live, and it
                        is up to us to choose what we want to feed: our lower bodies or our
                        body of glory. The construction of the body of glory is a long-term
                        undertaking, that is true, but you can all start today. By learning
                        to bring order to your psychic life, by learning to purify and
                        harmonize it, you elevate your level of consciousness and attract
                        materials of the very highest quality.

                        "Become a temple builder
                        These truths are not new; they were already known in ancient
                        initiations. The true teaching of Freemasonry for instance, which
                        goes back thousands of years, teaches man to become the builder of
                        his own spiritual temple by means of symbolic materials and tools
                        which he must know and be able to use. One of the symbolic
                        representations of this temple is the New Jerusalem referred to by
                        St John in Revelations: a city of perfect dimensions, with
                        foundations of precious stones, streets of pure gold, transparent as
                        glass, and twelve gates of pearl. The New Jerusalem is not a city in
                        the usual sense of the word, but a symbolic structure representing a
                        human being, ourselves, the `new man' with his twelve `gates' of
                        pearl which are the virtues. We also saw that God inhabits this new
                        man as pure light, which banishes all darkness.

                        "The New Jerusalem is the body of glory, the temple that we must all
                        build within ourselves using the tools and materials God has given
                        us. Every disinterested, generous, sincere impulse, every spiritual
                        emanation adds something to the construction of your inner temple,
                        the new Jerusalem, your body of glory. And each time you are in
                        touch with the truly beautiful, each time a masterpiece of art or of
                        thought, or the contemplation of a beautiful view brings you into
                        contact with the divine world and you feel that your whole being
                        quivers and expands, remember to consecrate these few particles of
                        pure joy emanating from you, so that they go to nourish your body of
                        glory.

                        "Happy are those who have understood that the time has come! Happy
                        are those who work at building their temple, who have decided to
                        bring the Creator into their inner temple! Happy and blessed are
                        they, because they will see the glory of God!

                        "Resurrection
                        You understand now, what true resurrection is. It is this intense
                        life that enables man to build his body of glory. Resurrection is
                        not the resurrection of the physical body after death. It concerns
                        our body, yes, but the body concerned is the body of glory, that is,
                        the physical body so purified and vivified by the spirit that when
                        it disappears at the time of death, it makes way for a body of
                        light. This work of purification is accomplished by human beings
                        themselves during the course of their successive incarnations. You
                        must not be misled into thinking that every poor wretch who has been
                        buried will rise at the end of time in a body of light. This must be
                        quite clear: contrary to what the Church teaches, the physical body
                        will not resurrect at the end of time, and there is no need either
                        to wait for the end of time before resurrecting in your luminous
                        body. But it is up to each one of us to build our body of light, our
                        body of resurrection, and it may even manifest itself during this
                        life, as Jesus' transfiguration on the mountain proves.

                        "Transfiguration
                        The transfiguration of Jesus was the sudden bursting out of his
                        spiritual body, his body of glory, on the physical plane, and the
                        sight was unbearable, because it was no longer the physical light to
                        which our eyes are accustomed, but spiritual light, which is the
                        expression of a life so intense that it can strike us down. This is
                        why it is said that the disciples fell to the ground. The moment had
                        not yet come for Jesus to detach his body of glory from his physical
                        body so as to inhabit it permanently, but he was already able to
                        manifest it in all its glory.

                        "A few people have been able to see the body of glory of certain
                        initiates when they were in a state of rapture and ecstasy. Their
                        faces became radiant, and light emanated from the whole of their
                        being. It is thanks to this body that initiates can travel in space
                        and across mountains and penetrate even to the centre of the earth,
                        because no material obstacle stands in its way. It can even help
                        people from a distance. Yes, and even if an initiate's physical body
                        is ill, he can continue to work and send help, for the physical body
                        and the body of glory are two totally different realities. Even if
                        an initiate is ill or dying, even if he is dead, his body of glory
                        is still there, alive and radiant, and still able to touch creatures
                        at a distance in order to instruct, advise, and console them and
                        give them his blessing. Only the body of glory is immortal, because
                        the elements that have gone into its construction are of
                        incorruptible material and they do not disintegrate. This is why
                        before leaving his disciples, Jesus said to them: `I am with you
                        always, to the end of the age.'

                        `Now you must do as I did'
                        "The ideal every true disciple seeks to attain is to build, in the
                        depths of his physical body, the body that is known as the body of
                        glory, the body of immortality, the body of Christ, which is the
                        true body of resurrection. How did Jesus become the Christ? Long,
                        long ago I asked him that question and he said: `I have left a mark
                        on earth, and that mark is indelible because I succeeded in building
                        my body of glory. I loved God, I wanted to resemble him, and a
                        multitude of beings and forces came to my assistance. I worked with
                        only my thoughts and my love, but I was not alone; I called upon all
                        the creatures of the celestial hierarchies and they came to replace
                        the matter of my body with luminous and divine particles. They
                        sanctified everything within me. My ideal was to resemble my
                        heavenly Father, and I became like him. Now you must do as I did.'

                        "This is what Jesus told me, and if you too love this high ideal, it
                        will attract angels to you who will work to purify and transform you
                        until all the matter of your being is illuminated by the spirit. To
                        become like his heavenly Father, Jesus also had to have this high
                        ideal, but it was not he who replaced every cell, every particle of
                        his body. No human being is capable of that. There are other
                        entities who are capable of changing the structure of matter, and we
                        only have to invite them in. That is our work; as for them, they
                        take on the other part of the work. When the man has deposited a
                        seed into the woman's womb, it is not up to her to choose and
                        organize the elements that will go to build the body of her child.
                        How could she? There are billions of particles, and how could she
                        arrange them correctly to form the limbs and the organs: the heart,
                        the lungs, the brain, and so on? There are other entities who take
                        charge of this, thousands and thousands of them. In the same way an
                        initiate who is conscious that the seed of the body of Christ is
                        within him sets certain processes in motion, directs them, and then
                        all the powers of heaven and earth take charge of the rest. This too
                        is what Jesus explained to me."
                      • elfkinszee
                        Hey Gia I don t think we all need to have the same viewpoint. Indeed I tend to find many anthro s anthrospocentric :) If it didn t feel to good to you, thats
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jan 24, 2007
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                          Hey Gia

                          I don't think we all need to have the same viewpoint. Indeed I tend
                          to find many anthro's anthrospocentric :)

                          If it didn't feel to good to you, thats okay. I have problems with
                          it as well at some points which is it why it simplified itself for me.

                          I think we have to trust ourselves if we want an inner map and many
                          times we are going to be at odds with others.

                          I was just thinking today perhaps the jews did not suffer from the
                          dna manipulation which was why Christ came through the Jews.

                          Perhaps to everyone here there - no such thing that occurred. But for
                          me its part of my inner experience.

                          Steiner and Bradford say the world events are slowly due to reach
                          conclusion in 2100. Maybe China and India do have time to become the
                          next world powers. I am not certain.
                          There are other schools of thought that say 2012 marks a change to
                          the world as we know it.

                          Anthroposophy sometimes appears to be the most intolerant of views
                          that maybe contrary to what Steiner said. I cannot follow a path of
                          thought dictated by others.

                          I am sure karma and the detail of the macro and microcosm is far
                          more complex than we are able to understand. Even the metaphyical
                          giant Steiner can only have scatched the surface...

                          My humble view :)
                          Take Care !










                          >
                          >
                          > Hi Gia,
                          >
                          > On the ideia of evil. I just remembered a good book you might like
                          > to read (may be available from the free ebook sites I just
                          > mentioned). You might know it already. It's called "L'arbre de la
                          > connaissande du bien et du mal", although I've also seen it
                          > translated as "Answers to the question of evil". I think the
                          > original is actually in Russian, so maybe you can read it in it's
                          > original text, which is great. it is by Omraam Mikhaël Aïvanhov.
                          >
                          > Quotes from the Author (from Wikipedia):
                          > "There are times when you are overwhelmed by the sensation that
                          > nothing is going right for you. But it is important to understand
                          > that there is no law that obliges you to be relentlessly ground
                          down
                          > by fate. Only those who forget that the spirit lives in them are
                          > subject to unrelenting fate. Whatever your trials, remind yourself
                          > that you are a spirit and are capable of changing your destiny. Of
                          > course, you will not be able to change very much to begin with –
                          > perhaps your path will veer by only one hundredth of a degree – but
                          > if you continue to work in the same direction, you will end by
                          > putting a whole solar system between you and fate. What is
                          important
                          > is to tap the power of the spirit that is within you."
                          >
                          > "God first sent Moses to teach men justice later he sent Jesus to
                          > teach them love and forgiveness. True, but we must not leave it at
                          > that. To forgive our enemies and turn the other cheek is far nobler
                          > than to demand an eye for an eye, but there is something even
                          > better..."
                          >
                          > "It is in the midst of difficulties that man develops his
                          > intelligence because, in order to overcome them, he must observe,
                          > think and become clear-sighted. Nature has put difficulties here
                          and
                          > there in life to develop her children's intelligence, but the
                          > children do not develop: they waste their time and energy crying,
                          > complaining, getting angry and upset, instead of trying to
                          > understand and look for solutions. Obviously when they are
                          exhausted
                          > they calm down, but the difficulties are still there; their
                          energies
                          > are gone but their problems remain. What a weird method! I ask
                          > someone, 'How long did you cry? - three hours. - Did you solve the
                          > problem? - No. - Well, next time, cry just ten minutes. As you
                          would
                          > miss not crying, do it, but no more than ten minutes; and once the
                          > ten minutes is over, start thinking!'"
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gia Bibileishvili <giabib@>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > "Sounds strange and too egoistic..." ..."it smells evil here..
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Gia
                          > >
                          >
                        • Elsa Santos
                          ... internal ... by ... the ... to ... had ... physical ... building ... the ... and ... pure ... and ... as ... in ... a ... all ... of ... of ... is, ...
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jan 24, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                            <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > To Elsa and all ships at sea, tap in the name Omraam on the
                            internal
                            > search of Anthroposophy for this list and see what comes up dating
                            > back years. Omraam Mikhaël Aïvanhov is unique and runs directly on
                            > tracks that support true Spiritual Science studies. In terms of a
                            > library of works, Omraam Mikhaël Aïvanhov's works can stand side
                            by
                            > side with Steiner and find themselves in agreement at every turn.
                            > Which means that it is easier to begin reading Omraam to start off
                            > with but in every detail Steiner and Omraam are of one voice for
                            the
                            > Michael Nation.
                            >
                            > Elsa wrote;
                            >
                            > "...it is by Omraam Mikhaël Aïvanhov."
                            >
                            > Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov
                            >
                            > "Transfiguration
                            > The transfiguration of Jesus was the sudden bursting out of his
                            > spiritual body, his body of glory, on the physical plane, and the
                            > sight was unbearable, because it was no longer the physical light
                            to
                            > which our eyes are accustomed, but spiritual light, which is the
                            > expression of a life so intense that it can strike us down. This is
                            > why it is said that the disciples fell to the ground. The moment
                            had
                            > not yet come for Jesus to detach his body of glory from his
                            physical
                            > body so as to inhabit it permanently, but he was already able to
                            > manifest it in all its glory."
                            >
                            > `Now you must do as I did'
                            >
                            > "The ideal every true disciple seeks to attain is to build, in the
                            > depths of his physical body, the body that is known as the body of
                            > glory, the body of immortality, the body of Christ, which is the
                            > true body of resurrection. How did Jesus become the Christ? Long,
                            > long ago I asked him that question and he said: `I have left a mark
                            > on earth, and that mark is indelible because I succeeded in
                            building
                            > my body of glory."
                            >
                            > holderlin wrote:
                            >
                            > "Paul and Steiner and [Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov} are unique in
                            > requesting for a cognitive change of thinking. To understand the
                            > Science of the Resurrection it is required to know what the current
                            > system IS that we refer to as Human Beings. This system cannot be
                            > anything if it is not a Science that has not yet been outlined.
                            > Steiner has outlined the science that for Zarathustra/Jesus was the
                            > experiment as FACT.
                            >
                            > "The results of the Fact was the Accomplishment of Spirit Man on
                            > Earth. Everything that Spiritual Science adds to the FACT shifts
                            the
                            > idea from miracle to the Science of the Resurrection. Without this
                            > Science, and without a cognitive shift in the foundations of our
                            > human understanding of the basis of what a Human Being is, swirling
                            > accounts of God and miracles that grope about without the
                            > scaffolding of the human being, cannot serve the ripening and
                            > maturity that is required to pull back the curtain and open the
                            > world to the age of the Consciousness Soul."
                            >
                            > http://www.cygnus-
                            > books.co.uk/features/body_glory_omraam_mikhael_aivanhov.htm
                            >
                            > "How we help the body of glory to grow
                            > We could say that the body of glory is the body – or dwelling or
                            > temple – that we build for the Christ-principle within us. When we
                            > experience a highly elevated state of consciousness, we attract
                            > luminous particles that contribute to the formation of our body of
                            > glory. This is how we help it to grow. It can develop only if it is
                            > given the best of ourselves, and if we nourish it with our flesh
                            and
                            > blood, our fluid, our very life for a long time, one day it will
                            > begin to shine. The body of glory is made of materials that are
                            pure
                            > light which neither rust nor tarnish. This is why it is immortal
                            and
                            > works wonders, firstly within us and then outside of us.
                            >
                            > "Every human being can build their body of glory, on one condition,
                            > that they endeavour to outdo and surpass themselves in order to
                            > attract the purest and most luminous particles. As long as human
                            > beings remain on the level of ordinary consciousness, they attract
                            > elements, of course, but these elements serve to feed only their
                            > astral body. And then their astral body swells up, like that of the
                            > rich man in the parable, and prevents them from passing through the
                            > gateway to the kingdom of God. Something within us is constantly
                            > being fed by our thoughts and feelings, by the way we live, and it
                            > is up to us to choose what we want to feed: our lower bodies or our
                            > body of glory. The construction of the body of glory is a long-term
                            > undertaking, that is true, but you can all start today. By learning
                            > to bring order to your psychic life, by learning to purify and
                            > harmonize it, you elevate your level of consciousness and attract
                            > materials of the very highest quality.
                            >
                            > "Become a temple builder
                            > These truths are not new; they were already known in ancient
                            > initiations. The true teaching of Freemasonry for instance, which
                            > goes back thousands of years, teaches man to become the builder of
                            > his own spiritual temple by means of symbolic materials and tools
                            > which he must know and be able to use. One of the symbolic
                            > representations of this temple is the New Jerusalem referred to by
                            > St John in Revelations: a city of perfect dimensions, with
                            > foundations of precious stones, streets of pure gold, transparent
                            as
                            > glass, and twelve gates of pearl. The New Jerusalem is not a city
                            in
                            > the usual sense of the word, but a symbolic structure representing
                            a
                            > human being, ourselves, the `new man' with his twelve `gates' of
                            > pearl which are the virtues. We also saw that God inhabits this new
                            > man as pure light, which banishes all darkness.
                            >
                            > "The New Jerusalem is the body of glory, the temple that we must
                            all
                            > build within ourselves using the tools and materials God has given
                            > us. Every disinterested, generous, sincere impulse, every spiritual
                            > emanation adds something to the construction of your inner temple,
                            > the new Jerusalem, your body of glory. And each time you are in
                            > touch with the truly beautiful, each time a masterpiece of art or
                            of
                            > thought, or the contemplation of a beautiful view brings you into
                            > contact with the divine world and you feel that your whole being
                            > quivers and expands, remember to consecrate these few particles of
                            > pure joy emanating from you, so that they go to nourish your body
                            of
                            > glory.
                            >
                            > "Happy are those who have understood that the time has come! Happy
                            > are those who work at building their temple, who have decided to
                            > bring the Creator into their inner temple! Happy and blessed are
                            > they, because they will see the glory of God!
                            >
                            > "Resurrection
                            > You understand now, what true resurrection is. It is this intense
                            > life that enables man to build his body of glory. Resurrection is
                            > not the resurrection of the physical body after death. It concerns
                            > our body, yes, but the body concerned is the body of glory, that
                            is,
                            > the physical body so purified and vivified by the spirit that when
                            > it disappears at the time of death, it makes way for a body of
                            > light. This work of purification is accomplished by human beings
                            > themselves during the course of their successive incarnations. You
                            > must not be misled into thinking that every poor wretch who has
                            been
                            > buried will rise at the end of time in a body of light. This must
                            be
                            > quite clear: contrary to what the Church teaches, the physical body
                            > will not resurrect at the end of time, and there is no need either
                            > to wait for the end of time before resurrecting in your luminous
                            > body. But it is up to each one of us to build our body of light,
                            our
                            > body of resurrection, and it may even manifest itself during this
                            > life, as Jesus' transfiguration on the mountain proves.
                            >
                            > "Transfiguration
                            > The transfiguration of Jesus was the sudden bursting out of his
                            > spiritual body, his body of glory, on the physical plane, and the
                            > sight was unbearable, because it was no longer the physical light
                            to
                            > which our eyes are accustomed, but spiritual light, which is the
                            > expression of a life so intense that it can strike us down. This is
                            > why it is said that the disciples fell to the ground. The moment
                            had
                            > not yet come for Jesus to detach his body of glory from his
                            physical
                            > body so as to inhabit it permanently, but he was already able to
                            > manifest it in all its glory.
                            >
                            > "A few people have been able to see the body of glory of certain
                            > initiates when they were in a state of rapture and ecstasy. Their
                            > faces became radiant, and light emanated from the whole of their
                            > being. It is thanks to this body that initiates can travel in space
                            > and across mountains and penetrate even to the centre of the earth,
                            > because no material obstacle stands in its way. It can even help
                            > people from a distance. Yes, and even if an initiate's physical
                            body
                            > is ill, he can continue to work and send help, for the physical
                            body
                            > and the body of glory are two totally different realities. Even if
                            > an initiate is ill or dying, even if he is dead, his body of glory
                            > is still there, alive and radiant, and still able to touch
                            creatures
                            > at a distance in order to instruct, advise, and console them and
                            > give them his blessing. Only the body of glory is immortal, because
                            > the elements that have gone into its construction are of
                            > incorruptible material and they do not disintegrate. This is why
                            > before leaving his disciples, Jesus said to them: `I am with you
                            > always, to the end of the age.'
                            >
                            > `Now you must do as I did'
                            > "The ideal every true disciple seeks to attain is to build, in the
                            > depths of his physical body, the body that is known as the body of
                            > glory, the body of immortality, the body of Christ, which is the
                            > true body of resurrection. How did Jesus become the Christ? Long,
                            > long ago I asked him that question and he said: `I have left a mark
                            > on earth, and that mark is indelible because I succeeded in
                            building
                            > my body of glory. I loved God, I wanted to resemble him, and a
                            > multitude of beings and forces came to my assistance. I worked with
                            > only my thoughts and my love, but I was not alone; I called upon
                            all
                            > the creatures of the celestial hierarchies and they came to replace
                            > the matter of my body with luminous and divine particles. They
                            > sanctified everything within me. My ideal was to resemble my
                            > heavenly Father, and I became like him. Now you must do as I did.'
                            >
                            > "This is what Jesus told me, and if you too love this high ideal,
                            it
                            > will attract angels to you who will work to purify and transform
                            you
                            > until all the matter of your being is illuminated by the spirit. To
                            > become like his heavenly Father, Jesus also had to have this high
                            > ideal, but it was not he who replaced every cell, every particle of
                            > his body. No human being is capable of that. There are other
                            > entities who are capable of changing the structure of matter, and
                            we
                            > only have to invite them in. That is our work; as for them, they
                            > take on the other part of the work. When the man has deposited a
                            > seed into the woman's womb, it is not up to her to choose and
                            > organize the elements that will go to build the body of her child.
                            > How could she? There are billions of particles, and how could she
                            > arrange them correctly to form the limbs and the organs: the heart,
                            > the lungs, the brain, and so on? There are other entities who take
                            > charge of this, thousands and thousands of them. In the same way an
                            > initiate who is conscious that the seed of the body of Christ is
                            > within him sets certain processes in motion, directs them, and then
                            > all the powers of heaven and earth take charge of the rest. This
                            too
                            > is what Jesus explained to me."
                            >
                          • Elsa Santos
                            Oops, sorry, pressed the send button by mistake... Yep, he was also shoulder to shoulder with Alice Bailey and was part of the Universal White Brotherhood
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jan 24, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Oops, sorry, pressed the send button by mistake...

                              Yep, he was also shoulder to shoulder with Alice Bailey and was part
                              of the Universal White Brotherhood (speaking of ascended masters)-
                              probably the reason why I appreciate Kryon so much (group energy of
                              the Michael family.

                              The book I was mentioning actually was writen in french, so the
                              original is "L'Arbre de la connaissance du bien et du mal" (tree of
                              life) So, apologies for that mistake (and also for mispelling Carl
                              jung before...)

                              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                              <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > To Elsa and all ships at sea, tap in the name Omraam on the
                              internal
                              > search of Anthroposophy for this list and see what comes up dating
                              > back years. Omraam Mikhaël Aïvanhov is unique and runs directly on
                              > tracks that support true Spiritual Science studies. In terms of a
                              > library of works, Omraam Mikhaël Aïvanhov's works can stand side
                              by
                              > side with Steiner and find themselves in agreement at every turn.
                              > Which means that it is easier to begin reading Omraam to start off
                              > with but in every detail Steiner and Omraam are of one voice for
                              the
                              > Michael Nation.
                              >
                              > Elsa wrote;
                              >
                              > "...it is by Omraam Mikhaël Aïvanhov."
                              >
                              > Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov
                              >
                              > "Transfiguration
                              > The transfiguration of Jesus was the sudden bursting out of his
                              > spiritual body, his body of glory, on the physical plane, and the
                              > sight was unbearable, because it was no longer the physical light
                              to
                              > which our eyes are accustomed, but spiritual light, which is the
                              > expression of a life so intense that it can strike us down. This is
                              > why it is said that the disciples fell to the ground. The moment
                              had
                              > not yet come for Jesus to detach his body of glory from his
                              physical
                              > body so as to inhabit it permanently, but he was already able to
                              > manifest it in all its glory."
                              >
                              > `Now you must do as I did'
                              >
                              > "The ideal every true disciple seeks to attain is to build, in the
                              > depths of his physical body, the body that is known as the body of
                              > glory, the body of immortality, the body of Christ, which is the
                              > true body of resurrection. How did Jesus become the Christ? Long,
                              > long ago I asked him that question and he said: `I have left a mark
                              > on earth, and that mark is indelible because I succeeded in
                              building
                              > my body of glory."
                              >
                              > holderlin wrote:
                              >
                              > "Paul and Steiner and [Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov} are unique in
                              > requesting for a cognitive change of thinking. To understand the
                              > Science of the Resurrection it is required to know what the current
                              > system IS that we refer to as Human Beings. This system cannot be
                              > anything if it is not a Science that has not yet been outlined.
                              > Steiner has outlined the science that for Zarathustra/Jesus was the
                              > experiment as FACT.
                              >
                              > "The results of the Fact was the Accomplishment of Spirit Man on
                              > Earth. Everything that Spiritual Science adds to the FACT shifts
                              the
                              > idea from miracle to the Science of the Resurrection. Without this
                              > Science, and without a cognitive shift in the foundations of our
                              > human understanding of the basis of what a Human Being is, swirling
                              > accounts of God and miracles that grope about without the
                              > scaffolding of the human being, cannot serve the ripening and
                              > maturity that is required to pull back the curtain and open the
                              > world to the age of the Consciousness Soul."
                              >
                              > http://www.cygnus-
                              > books.co.uk/features/body_glory_omraam_mikhael_aivanhov.htm
                              >
                              > "How we help the body of glory to grow
                              > We could say that the body of glory is the body – or dwelling or
                              > temple – that we build for the Christ-principle within us. When we
                              > experience a highly elevated state of consciousness, we attract
                              > luminous particles that contribute to the formation of our body of
                              > glory. This is how we help it to grow. It can develop only if it is
                              > given the best of ourselves, and if we nourish it with our flesh
                              and
                              > blood, our fluid, our very life for a long time, one day it will
                              > begin to shine. The body of glory is made of materials that are
                              pure
                              > light which neither rust nor tarnish. This is why it is immortal
                              and
                              > works wonders, firstly within us and then outside of us.
                              >
                              > "Every human being can build their body of glory, on one condition,
                              > that they endeavour to outdo and surpass themselves in order to
                              > attract the purest and most luminous particles. As long as human
                              > beings remain on the level of ordinary consciousness, they attract
                              > elements, of course, but these elements serve to feed only their
                              > astral body. And then their astral body swells up, like that of the
                              > rich man in the parable, and prevents them from passing through the
                              > gateway to the kingdom of God. Something within us is constantly
                              > being fed by our thoughts and feelings, by the way we live, and it
                              > is up to us to choose what we want to feed: our lower bodies or our
                              > body of glory. The construction of the body of glory is a long-term
                              > undertaking, that is true, but you can all start today. By learning
                              > to bring order to your psychic life, by learning to purify and
                              > harmonize it, you elevate your level of consciousness and attract
                              > materials of the very highest quality.
                              >
                              > "Become a temple builder
                              > These truths are not new; they were already known in ancient
                              > initiations. The true teaching of Freemasonry for instance, which
                              > goes back thousands of years, teaches man to become the builder of
                              > his own spiritual temple by means of symbolic materials and tools
                              > which he must know and be able to use. One of the symbolic
                              > representations of this temple is the New Jerusalem referred to by
                              > St John in Revelations: a city of perfect dimensions, with
                              > foundations of precious stones, streets of pure gold, transparent
                              as
                              > glass, and twelve gates of pearl. The New Jerusalem is not a city
                              in
                              > the usual sense of the word, but a symbolic structure representing
                              a
                              > human being, ourselves, the `new man' with his twelve `gates' of
                              > pearl which are the virtues. We also saw that God inhabits this new
                              > man as pure light, which banishes all darkness.
                              >
                              > "The New Jerusalem is the body of glory, the temple that we must
                              all
                              > build within ourselves using the tools and materials God has given
                              > us. Every disinterested, generous, sincere impulse, every spiritual
                              > emanation adds something to the construction of your inner temple,
                              > the new Jerusalem, your body of glory. And each time you are in
                              > touch with the truly beautiful, each time a masterpiece of art or
                              of
                              > thought, or the contemplation of a beautiful view brings you into
                              > contact with the divine world and you feel that your whole being
                              > quivers and expands, remember to consecrate these few particles of
                              > pure joy emanating from you, so that they go to nourish your body
                              of
                              > glory.
                              >
                              > "Happy are those who have understood that the time has come! Happy
                              > are those who work at building their temple, who have decided to
                              > bring the Creator into their inner temple! Happy and blessed are
                              > they, because they will see the glory of God!
                              >
                              > "Resurrection
                              > You understand now, what true resurrection is. It is this intense
                              > life that enables man to build his body of glory. Resurrection is
                              > not the resurrection of the physical body after death. It concerns
                              > our body, yes, but the body concerned is the body of glory, that
                              is,
                              > the physical body so purified and vivified by the spirit that when
                              > it disappears at the time of death, it makes way for a body of
                              > light. This work of purification is accomplished by human beings
                              > themselves during the course of their successive incarnations. You
                              > must not be misled into thinking that every poor wretch who has
                              been
                              > buried will rise at the end of time in a body of light. This must
                              be
                              > quite clear: contrary to what the Church teaches, the physical body
                              > will not resurrect at the end of time, and there is no need either
                              > to wait for the end of time before resurrecting in your luminous
                              > body. But it is up to each one of us to build our body of light,
                              our
                              > body of resurrection, and it may even manifest itself during this
                              > life, as Jesus' transfiguration on the mountain proves.
                              >
                              > "Transfiguration
                              > The transfiguration of Jesus was the sudden bursting out of his
                              > spiritual body, his body of glory, on the physical plane, and the
                              > sight was unbearable, because it was no longer the physical light
                              to
                              > which our eyes are accustomed, but spiritual light, which is the
                              > expression of a life so intense that it can strike us down. This is
                              > why it is said that the disciples fell to the ground. The moment
                              had
                              > not yet come for Jesus to detach his body of glory from his
                              physical
                              > body so as to inhabit it permanently, but he was already able to
                              > manifest it in all its glory.
                              >
                              > "A few people have been able to see the body of glory of certain
                              > initiates when they were in a state of rapture and ecstasy. Their
                              > faces became radiant, and light emanated from the whole of their
                              > being. It is thanks to this body that initiates can travel in space
                              > and across mountains and penetrate even to the centre of the earth,
                              > because no material obstacle stands in its way. It can even help
                              > people from a distance. Yes, and even if an initiate's physical
                              body
                              > is ill, he can continue to work and send help, for the physical
                              body
                              > and the body of glory are two totally different realities. Even if
                              > an initiate is ill or dying, even if he is dead, his body of glory
                              > is still there, alive and radiant, and still able to touch
                              creatures
                              > at a distance in order to instruct, advise, and console them and
                              > give them his blessing. Only the body of glory is immortal, because
                              > the elements that have gone into its construction are of
                              > incorruptible material and they do not disintegrate. This is why
                              > before leaving his disciples, Jesus said to them: `I am with you
                              > always, to the end of the age.'
                              >
                              > `Now you must do as I did'
                              > "The ideal every true disciple seeks to attain is to build, in the
                              > depths of his physical body, the body that is known as the body of
                              > glory, the body of immortality, the body of Christ, which is the
                              > true body of resurrection. How did Jesus become the Christ? Long,
                              > long ago I asked him that question and he said: `I have left a mark
                              > on earth, and that mark is indelible because I succeeded in
                              building
                              > my body of glory. I loved God, I wanted to resemble him, and a
                              > multitude of beings and forces came to my assistance. I worked with
                              > only my thoughts and my love, but I was not alone; I called upon
                              all
                              > the creatures of the celestial hierarchies and they came to replace
                              > the matter of my body with luminous and divine particles. They
                              > sanctified everything within me. My ideal was to resemble my
                              > heavenly Father, and I became like him. Now you must do as I did.'
                              >
                              > "This is what Jesus told me, and if you too love this high ideal,
                              it
                              > will attract angels to you who will work to purify and transform
                              you
                              > until all the matter of your being is illuminated by the spirit. To
                              > become like his heavenly Father, Jesus also had to have this high
                              > ideal, but it was not he who replaced every cell, every particle of
                              > his body. No human being is capable of that. There are other
                              > entities who are capable of changing the structure of matter, and
                              we
                              > only have to invite them in. That is our work; as for them, they
                              > take on the other part of the work. When the man has deposited a
                              > seed into the woman's womb, it is not up to her to choose and
                              > organize the elements that will go to build the body of her child.
                              > How could she? There are billions of particles, and how could she
                              > arrange them correctly to form the limbs and the organs: the heart,
                              > the lungs, the brain, and so on? There are other entities who take
                              > charge of this, thousands and thousands of them. In the same way an
                              > initiate who is conscious that the seed of the body of Christ is
                              > within him sets certain processes in motion, directs them, and then
                              > all the powers of heaven and earth take charge of the rest. This
                              too
                              > is what Jesus explained to me."
                              >
                            • Elsa Santos
                              Coming back to Kryon, this angelic group energy, which I chose to believe is being wonderfully channelled by Lee Carroll, stated that the Jewish people hold
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jan 24, 2007
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                                Coming back to Kryon, this angelic group energy, which I chose to
                                believe is being wonderfully channelled by Lee Carroll, stated that
                                the Jewish people hold the akashic record for the whole of humanity
                                back to the days of Lemuria and that all potential exists for the
                                future, better or worse, as we evolve as whole, although "he" also
                                states that "as Israel goes, so goes the world". Another interesting
                                thing is the Harmonic convergence of 1987, when, under Michael,
                                hordes of angelic beings helped shift the magnetic gridlines of the
                                planet as we managed to rise our vibrations and so giving them
                                permission to help us in that way, so that the armageddon would not
                                happen in 2000/1, and the cabal (still pretty active today) would
                                see an end to their plans faster. Then there was the Perestroika,
                                the fall of the Berlin wall, and the rest is history. No WWIII as
                                Nostradamus and many others predicted... This is also what was told
                                to the three sheperds in Fátima by Mother Mary (early 1900's) and we
                                were always told to pray for Russia to avoid WWIII (by the Portuguse
                                Catholic Church). There is yet another secret left to be reveiled
                                but only Pope John Paul II knew it, apart from Lúcia herself (the
                                youngest of the three sheperds). Anyway, 2012 is still an important
                                end of an era and beginning of a new period according to Kryon (as
                                well as the Mayas, Incas, Tzoltecs, etc)... The numerology of it all
                                is also very interesting. Even if you thing of the dates of sep11
                                and the tsunami, the hurricane, etc... They all add up to eleven. Do
                                you find it happens a lot that you randomly look at the clock and it
                                says 11:11?(http://www.1111progressgroup.com/), maybe it happens
                                more to us weird indigos, don't know. I think it's a good thing to
                                listen to the MP3 files on the Kryon site really (www.kryon.com)
                                wether you come out of it believing or not, it's full of interesting
                                insights. Maybe this is all too wow, way out there, and then again,
                                like you said Karen, we may all have different takes on things, but
                                it's all a matter of belief and a matter of faith, I guess. Anyway,
                                I just wanted to share some of the info I've left for the past few
                                days, hoping y'all find it useful... I'm off to do some farming now,
                                so, this really is the last message, like I've been promissing for
                                the last 6 or so ;).

                                Be well & God Bless! -:¦:- * -:¦:- * -:¦:- * -:¦:- * -:¦:- * -:¦:-
                                (\o/) (\o/) (\o/)
                                /_\ /_\ /_\


                                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "elfkinszee"
                                <blue_star_in@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hey Gia
                                >
                                > I don't think we all need to have the same viewpoint. Indeed I
                                tend
                                > to find many anthro's anthrospocentric :)
                                >
                                > If it didn't feel to good to you, thats okay. I have problems
                                with
                                > it as well at some points which is it why it simplified itself for
                                me.
                                >
                                > I think we have to trust ourselves if we want an inner map and
                                many
                                > times we are going to be at odds with others.
                                >
                                > I was just thinking today perhaps the jews did not suffer from the
                                > dna manipulation which was why Christ came through the Jews.
                                >
                                > Perhaps to everyone here there - no such thing that occurred. But
                                for
                                > me its part of my inner experience.
                                >
                                > Steiner and Bradford say the world events are slowly due to
                                reach
                                > conclusion in 2100. Maybe China and India do have time to become
                                the
                                > next world powers. I am not certain.
                                > There are other schools of thought that say 2012 marks a change to
                                > the world as we know it.
                                >
                                > Anthroposophy sometimes appears to be the most intolerant of views
                                > that maybe contrary to what Steiner said. I cannot follow a path
                                of
                                > thought dictated by others.
                                >
                                > I am sure karma and the detail of the macro and microcosm is far
                                > more complex than we are able to understand. Even the metaphyical
                                > giant Steiner can only have scatched the surface...
                                >
                                > My humble view :)
                                > Take Care !
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Hi Gia,
                                > >
                                > > On the ideia of evil. I just remembered a good book you might
                                like
                                > > to read (may be available from the free ebook sites I just
                                > > mentioned). You might know it already. It's called "L'arbre de
                                la
                                > > connaissande du bien et du mal", although I've also seen it
                                > > translated as "Answers to the question of evil". I think the
                                > > original is actually in Russian, so maybe you can read it in
                                it's
                                > > original text, which is great. it is by Omraam Mikhaël Aïvanhov.
                                > >
                                > > Quotes from the Author (from Wikipedia):
                                > > "There are times when you are overwhelmed by the sensation that
                                > > nothing is going right for you. But it is important to
                                understand
                                > > that there is no law that obliges you to be relentlessly ground
                                > down
                                > > by fate. Only those who forget that the spirit lives in them are
                                > > subject to unrelenting fate. Whatever your trials, remind
                                yourself
                                > > that you are a spirit and are capable of changing your destiny.
                                Of
                                > > course, you will not be able to change very much to begin with –
                                > > perhaps your path will veer by only one hundredth of a degree –
                                but
                                > > if you continue to work in the same direction, you will end by
                                > > putting a whole solar system between you and fate. What is
                                > important
                                > > is to tap the power of the spirit that is within you."
                                > >
                                > > "God first sent Moses to teach men justice later he sent Jesus
                                to
                                > > teach them love and forgiveness. True, but we must not leave it
                                at
                                > > that. To forgive our enemies and turn the other cheek is far
                                nobler
                                > > than to demand an eye for an eye, but there is something even
                                > > better..."
                                > >
                                > > "It is in the midst of difficulties that man develops his
                                > > intelligence because, in order to overcome them, he must
                                observe,
                                > > think and become clear-sighted. Nature has put difficulties here
                                > and
                                > > there in life to develop her children's intelligence, but the
                                > > children do not develop: they waste their time and energy
                                crying,
                                > > complaining, getting angry and upset, instead of trying to
                                > > understand and look for solutions. Obviously when they are
                                > exhausted
                                > > they calm down, but the difficulties are still there; their
                                > energies
                                > > are gone but their problems remain. What a weird method! I ask
                                > > someone, 'How long did you cry? - three hours. - Did you solve
                                the
                                > > problem? - No. - Well, next time, cry just ten minutes. As you
                                > would
                                > > miss not crying, do it, but no more than ten minutes; and once
                                the
                                > > ten minutes is over, start thinking!'"
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gia Bibileishvili
                                <giabib@>
                                > > wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > "Sounds strange and too egoistic..." ..."it smells evil here..
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Gia
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • Valerie Walsh
                                ... Yes, he was a very big guy with a really small instrument. It be s that way sometimes and yet Isreal managed to cover both Armstrong and Garland with it. I
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jan 24, 2007
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                                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "elfkinszee" <blue_star_in@...>
                                  wrote:

                                  > Anyway I will look out for brother Iz and his ukelele. Thanks :)

                                  Yes, he was a very big guy with a really small instrument. It be's that
                                  way sometimes and yet Isreal managed to cover both Armstrong and
                                  Garland with it. I know his music because my sons have been doing their
                                  swim team warm-ups to his cd's for several years. I would just turn off
                                  the radio if I were you-you could try the re-release of Nina Simone's
                                  Silk and Soul-that's out on cd now-I like it a lot because only a
                                  really great singer can sing that badly.-Val
                                • holderlin66
                                  elfkinszee wrote: Steiner and Bradford say the world events are slowly due to reach conclusion in 2100. That is crap, Steiner and Bradford said no such
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jan 24, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    elfkinszee wrote:

                                    "Steiner and Bradford say the world events are slowly due to reach
                                    conclusion in 2100. " That is crap, Steiner and Bradford said no such
                                    thing. That was the estimated time frame of the opportunity for us to
                                    bridge over to forming our heart thinking in connection with the
                                    Angelic direction and infusion of thinking that awakens powerfully, as
                                    a process that humanity could be engaged in. But that that engagement
                                    of digesting and awakening new magical idealism, intimate intimacy
                                    with our Angelic companions, this phase of building the heart brain
                                    thinking capacity might conclude by 2100 is something that is still on
                                    the table for discusssion.
                                  • elfkinszee
                                    Its good to have you on site ! My son is always pressing on me to have the PC.. so have to catch up another time.. In the meantime I will contemplate the
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Jan 24, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Its good to have you on site !

                                      My son is always pressing on me to have the PC.. so have to catch up
                                      another time..

                                      In the meantime I will contemplate the earthquake I caused in Taiwan
                                      and the subsequent internet problems I am having..

                                      :)



                                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Elsa Santos" <elsamagosa@...>
                                      wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Coming back to Kryon, this angelic group energy, which I chose to
                                      > believe is being wonderfully channelled by Lee Carroll, stated that
                                      > the Jewish people hold the akashic record for the whole of humanity
                                      > back to the days of Lemuria and that all potential exists for the
                                      > future, better or worse, as we evolve as whole, although "he" also
                                      > states that "as Israel goes, so goes the world". Another
                                      interesting
                                      > thing is the Harmonic convergence of 1987, when, under Michael,
                                      > hordes of angelic beings helped shift the magnetic gridlines of the
                                      > planet as we managed to rise our vibrations and so giving them
                                      > permission to help us in that way, so that the armageddon would not
                                      > happen in 2000/1, and the cabal (still pretty active today) would
                                      > see an end to their plans faster. Then there was the Perestroika,
                                      > the fall of the Berlin wall, and the rest is history. No WWIII as
                                      > Nostradamus and many others predicted... This is also what was told
                                      > to the three sheperds in Fátima by Mother Mary (early 1900's) and
                                      we
                                      > were always told to pray for Russia to avoid WWIII (by the
                                      Portuguse
                                      > Catholic Church). There is yet another secret left to be reveiled
                                      > but only Pope John Paul II knew it, apart from Lúcia herself (the
                                      > youngest of the three sheperds). Anyway, 2012 is still an important
                                      > end of an era and beginning of a new period according to Kryon (as
                                      > well as the Mayas, Incas, Tzoltecs, etc)... The numerology of it
                                      all
                                      > is also very interesting. Even if you thing of the dates of sep11
                                      > and the tsunami, the hurricane, etc... They all add up to eleven.
                                      Do
                                      > you find it happens a lot that you randomly look at the clock and
                                      it
                                      > says 11:11?(http://www.1111progressgroup.com/), maybe it happens
                                      > more to us weird indigos, don't know. I think it's a good thing to
                                      > listen to the MP3 files on the Kryon site really (www.kryon.com)
                                      > wether you come out of it believing or not, it's full of
                                      interesting
                                      > insights. Maybe this is all too wow, way out there, and then
                                      again,
                                      > like you said Karen, we may all have different takes on things, but
                                      > it's all a matter of belief and a matter of faith, I guess. Anyway,
                                      > I just wanted to share some of the info I've left for the past few
                                      > days, hoping y'all find it useful... I'm off to do some farming
                                      now,
                                      > so, this really is the last message, like I've been promissing for
                                      > the last 6 or so ;).
                                      >
                                      > Be well & God Bless! -:¦:- * -:¦:- * -:¦:- * -:¦:- * -:¦:- * -:¦:-
                                      > (\o/) (\o/) (\o/)
                                      > /_\ /_\ /_\
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "elfkinszee"
                                      > <blue_star_in@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Hey Gia
                                      > >
                                      > > I don't think we all need to have the same viewpoint. Indeed I
                                      > tend
                                      > > to find many anthro's anthrospocentric :)
                                      > >
                                      > > If it didn't feel to good to you, thats okay. I have problems
                                      > with
                                      > > it as well at some points which is it why it simplified itself
                                      for
                                      > me.
                                      > >
                                      > > I think we have to trust ourselves if we want an inner map and
                                      > many
                                      > > times we are going to be at odds with others.
                                      > >
                                      > > I was just thinking today perhaps the jews did not suffer from
                                      the
                                      > > dna manipulation which was why Christ came through the Jews.
                                      > >
                                      > > Perhaps to everyone here there - no such thing that occurred. But
                                      > for
                                      > > me its part of my inner experience.
                                      > >
                                      > > Steiner and Bradford say the world events are slowly due to
                                      > reach
                                      > > conclusion in 2100. Maybe China and India do have time to become
                                      > the
                                      > > next world powers. I am not certain.
                                      > > There are other schools of thought that say 2012 marks a change
                                      to
                                      > > the world as we know it.
                                      > >
                                      > > Anthroposophy sometimes appears to be the most intolerant of
                                      views
                                      > > that maybe contrary to what Steiner said. I cannot follow a path
                                      > of
                                      > > thought dictated by others.
                                      > >
                                      > > I am sure karma and the detail of the macro and microcosm is far
                                      > > more complex than we are able to understand. Even the
                                      metaphyical
                                      > > giant Steiner can only have scatched the surface...
                                      > >
                                      > > My humble view :)
                                      > > Take Care !
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Hi Gia,
                                      > > >
                                      > > > On the ideia of evil. I just remembered a good book you might
                                      > like
                                      > > > to read (may be available from the free ebook sites I just
                                      > > > mentioned). You might know it already. It's called "L'arbre de
                                      > la
                                      > > > connaissande du bien et du mal", although I've also seen it
                                      > > > translated as "Answers to the question of evil". I think the
                                      > > > original is actually in Russian, so maybe you can read it in
                                      > it's
                                      > > > original text, which is great. it is by Omraam Mikhaël Aïvanhov.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Quotes from the Author (from Wikipedia):
                                      > > > "There are times when you are overwhelmed by the sensation that
                                      > > > nothing is going right for you. But it is important to
                                      > understand
                                      > > > that there is no law that obliges you to be relentlessly ground
                                      > > down
                                      > > > by fate. Only those who forget that the spirit lives in them
                                      are
                                      > > > subject to unrelenting fate. Whatever your trials, remind
                                      > yourself
                                      > > > that you are a spirit and are capable of changing your destiny.
                                      > Of
                                      > > > course, you will not be able to change very much to begin with –

                                      > > > perhaps your path will veer by only one hundredth of a degree –
                                      > but
                                      > > > if you continue to work in the same direction, you will end by
                                      > > > putting a whole solar system between you and fate. What is
                                      > > important
                                      > > > is to tap the power of the spirit that is within you."
                                      > > >
                                      > > > "God first sent Moses to teach men justice later he sent Jesus
                                      > to
                                      > > > teach them love and forgiveness. True, but we must not leave it
                                      > at
                                      > > > that. To forgive our enemies and turn the other cheek is far
                                      > nobler
                                      > > > than to demand an eye for an eye, but there is something even
                                      > > > better..."
                                      > > >
                                      > > > "It is in the midst of difficulties that man develops his
                                      > > > intelligence because, in order to overcome them, he must
                                      > observe,
                                      > > > think and become clear-sighted. Nature has put difficulties
                                      here
                                      > > and
                                      > > > there in life to develop her children's intelligence, but the
                                      > > > children do not develop: they waste their time and energy
                                      > crying,
                                      > > > complaining, getting angry and upset, instead of trying to
                                      > > > understand and look for solutions. Obviously when they are
                                      > > exhausted
                                      > > > they calm down, but the difficulties are still there; their
                                      > > energies
                                      > > > are gone but their problems remain. What a weird method! I ask
                                      > > > someone, 'How long did you cry? - three hours. - Did you solve
                                      > the
                                      > > > problem? - No. - Well, next time, cry just ten minutes. As you
                                      > > would
                                      > > > miss not crying, do it, but no more than ten minutes; and once
                                      > the
                                      > > > ten minutes is over, start thinking!'"
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Gia Bibileishvili
                                      > <giabib@>
                                      > > > wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > "Sounds strange and too egoistic..." ..."it smells evil here..
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Gia
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
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