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Re: Father?-Re: [anthroposophy] THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD

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  • elaine upton
    Hello all, and thanks Bruce for your reply and attention to my questions on Father-son, Mother-daughter, masculine-feminine. What is said by one (Bock?) on
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 9, 2000
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      Hello all, and thanks Bruce for your reply and attention to my questions on
      Father-son, Mother-daughter, masculine-feminine.

      What is said by one (Bock?) on Paul's words about women keeping silent is
      very helpful...Sybilline, huh? I'll stay open to that idea.

      You mention Freemasonry holding the secrets of the lost connection of
      masculine and feminine, but say you can't say more because i "play for the
      other side". --Smile--Well, i hope i am learning to play for both sides.
      --smile again...and right now am playing, i trust, for the lost or
      marginalized feminine (dare i say?).

      Edouard Schure, if i remember, says something related--something abotu
      Moses's initiation being one where he was to lead the Israelites in a more
      masculine direction, otherwise the feminine (Eve) impulses would
      overpower.-In a general way, this makes sense, and yet the balance seems to
      have been terribly disturbed, at least when i look, but then i admit to a
      limited seeing. Even so, i seek to follow a "heart thinking" which tells me
      that it is time to re-dress the balance.

      I will go to the websites you offer. Thanks.
      And thanks for the Masonic/Solomonic double triangle/Trinity.

      Love,
      elaine





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    • 888
      Dear Elaine --Smile--Well, i hope i am learning to play for both sides. ... Yes we do get to swap sides, don t we? Rudolf Steiner says Nowadays, the sole
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 13, 2000
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        Dear Elaine
        --Smile--Well, i hope i am learning to play for both sides.
        >--smile again...and right now am playing, i trust, for the lost or
        >marginalized feminine (dare i say?).

        Yes we do get to swap sides, don't we?
        Rudolf Steiner says
        "Nowadays, the sole possibilty between of creating a balance between the
        two sexes exists only in the Theosophical Society."
        Lec. 18 The Temple Legend. (This is where he discusses the occult battle
        of the sexes.)


        >Edouard Schure, if i remember, says something related--something abotu
        >Moses's initiation being one where he was to lead the Israelites in a
        more
        >masculine direction, otherwise the feminine (Eve) impulses would
        >overpower.

        I wonder if this has something to do with the Kundalini power, that
        Moses also had to overcome in that ancient world.
        I've been thinking further about the Father and death because of Joel's
        question about the Swan Initiation.
        I remembered that RS at the end of an instruction on the AUM referred to
        it as a great Swan.
        Could absorption into this AUM be a state of death to worldly things?

        Love ,
        Bruce
      • Danny F.
        ... There s no such a thing as masculine/feminine properly except in the etherico/physical no? I think extending the duality masculine/feminine to the whole
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 15, 2000
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          --- 888 <bhive@...> wrote:

          > Alice posted this a while back on spiritualscience:
          > Tomberg presents an interesting idea which overlays two Trinities in
          > the
          > interlocking triangles of Solomon's Seal:
          >
          > Father/Son/Holy Spirit (upward triangle)
          >
          > Mother/Daughter/Holy Soul (downward triangle)


          There's no such a thing as masculine/feminine properly except in the
          etherico/physical no? I think extending the 'duality'
          masculine/feminine to the whole cosmos is certainly Luciferic,
          in doing so, you get rid of the threefoldness, only seeing the
          cosmos in an ever sensuous sexual kind of thing.

          Regards,
          Danny

          =====
          "Anthroposophy does not want to impart knowledge.
          It seeks to awaken life."

          --Rudolf Steiner

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        • 888
          ... Dear Danny, I wouldn t agree with that. It used to puzzle me why I couldn t find anything in anthroposophy which defined masculine feminine qualities,
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 15, 2000
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            > There's no such a thing as masculine/feminine properly except in the
            > etherico/physical no?

            Dear Danny,
            I wouldn't agree with that. It used to puzzle me why I
            couldn't find anything in anthroposophy which defined masculine feminine
            qualities, like say we find in the Chinese Ying/Yang: light/dark,
            hard/soft etc. These qualities don't just relate to men and women but
            are universal qualities.

            We have spoken on lists about this before and I asked listmembers if
            they could volunteer some qualities but no one replied. I recently found
            some good quotes from ancient Rome which quite clearly show a common
            belief that the element of water was feminine and fire masculine, for
            example. These are universal elements and were used symbolically in the
            Roman wedding ceremony.

            >I think extending the 'duality'
            > masculine/feminine to the whole cosmos is certainly Luciferic,
            > in doing so, you get rid of the threefoldness, only seeing the
            > cosmos in an ever sensuous sexual kind of thing.

            Actually, I find monism to be more indicative of a Luciferic outlook.
            You just have to look around at the New Age movement. There is even a
            non duality site. This is because monism defines a state when we merge
            our ego with Nirvana.

            You can find in the old Rosicrucain diagrams sexual symbols. The fact
            that human beings place sensual ideas on them is a problem with human
            beings, not the truths that they represent.
            In fact you might call it Jehovistic rather than Luciferic; and the word
            "Jehovah" has been defined by Blavatsky as meaning male/female.

            If you have a copy of Steiner's The Fall of the Spirits of Darkness you
            can read more about these sexual symbols and their deeper meaning. I
            think Dr. Steiner had a problem discussing these things because as he
            said folk were too facetious.

            Sexual doesn't have to mean sensual eg. the plant world.

            Warm Regards,
            Bruce
            BTW this is the subject of the thread and Barfield will get to the point
            soon.
          • Danny F.
            ... You re right, for they don t think nor they have an astral body. I was standing from the human psychological and still quite often anthropomorphic kind of
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 16, 2000
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              --- 888 <bhive@...> wrote:
              > > There's no such a thing as masculine/feminine properly except in
              > the
              > > etherico/physical no?
              >
              > Dear Danny,
              > I wouldn't agree with that. It used to puzzle me
              > why I
              > couldn't find anything in anthroposophy which defined masculine
              > feminine
              > qualities, like say we find in the Chinese Ying/Yang: light/dark,
              > hard/soft etc. These qualities don't just relate to men and women but
              > are universal qualities.
              >
              > We have spoken on lists about this before and I asked listmembers if
              > they could volunteer some qualities but no one replied. I recently
              > found
              > some good quotes from ancient Rome which quite clearly show a common
              > belief that the element of water was feminine and fire masculine, for
              > example. These are universal elements and were used symbolically in
              > the
              > Roman wedding ceremony.
              >
              > >I think extending the 'duality'
              > > masculine/feminine to the whole cosmos is certainly Luciferic,
              > > in doing so, you get rid of the threefoldness, only seeing the
              > > cosmos in an ever sensuous sexual kind of thing.
              >
              > Actually, I find monism to be more indicative of a Luciferic outlook.
              > You just have to look around at the New Age movement. There is even a
              > non duality site. This is because monism defines a state when we
              > merge
              > our ego with Nirvana.
              >
              > You can find in the old Rosicrucain diagrams sexual symbols. The fact
              > that human beings place sensual ideas on them is a problem with human
              > beings, not the truths that they represent.
              > In fact you might call it Jehovistic rather than Luciferic; and the
              > word
              > "Jehovah" has been defined by Blavatsky as meaning male/female.
              >
              > If you have a copy of Steiner's The Fall of the Spirits of Darkness
              > you
              > can read more about these sexual symbols and their deeper meaning. I
              > think Dr. Steiner had a problem discussing these things because as he
              > said folk were too facetious.
              >
              > Sexual doesn't have to mean sensual eg. the plant world.

              You're right, for they don't think nor they have an astral body.
              I was standing from the human psychological and still quite often
              anthropomorphic kind of thinking that goes on nowadays. That's easy
              to see where the anthroposophical kind of thinking stand beside the
              mainstream Luciferical/Ahrimanical one, the heart still bearly think
              organically yet, that's a "seed" that needs the Sun Spirit warmth in
              order to real breakthrough, and under the right Light, grow.


              > Warm Regards,
              > Bruce
              > BTW this is the subject of the thread and Barfield will get to the
              > point
              > soon.

              I guess we just have to wait then...

              Regards,
              Danny

              =====
              "Anthroposophy does not want to impart knowledge.
              It seeks to awaken life."

              --Rudolf Steiner

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            • elaine upton
              Hello Bruce, On the topic of the Father and death, you refer again to the Swan ... Ah! And AUM! I see the swan reaching (A), then folding its long neck in (the
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 17, 2000
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                Hello Bruce,
                On the topic of the Father and death, you refer again to the Swan
                initiation, and that's a beautiful image of AUM and the Swan:


                >I remember that at the end of an instruction [Steiner's]
                >on the AUM referred to
                >it as a great Swan.
                >Could absorption into this AUM be a state of death to worldly things?

                Ah! And AUM! I see the swan reaching (A), then folding its long neck in (the
                downward or, depending on perspective, the upward U of its neck), then going
                hoMMMe/death-MMM--the perfect eurythmy!

                Love,
                elaine

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