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Re: Father?-Re: [anthroposophy] THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD

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  • 888
    Hi Elaine and all, For those who don t know, Owen was a member of a group of writers termed the Inklings. I have been reading about another interesting British
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 5, 2000
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      Hi Elaine and all,

      For those who don't know, Owen was a
      member of a group of writers termed the Inklings.
      I have been reading about another interesting British writer lately-
      Charles Williams:
      http://www.multimaxx.com/chesterton/bios/cwbio.html

      CW along with Evelyn Underhill were members of A.E. Waite's breakaway
      from the "Golden Dawn", "The Fellowship of the Rosy Cross."

      >The Father and death, huh?

      Startling? I choked on it. :0)
      Notice he says:
      "I came forth from death, that is from death in its TRUE FORM, from the
      Life-Father"

      This is referring to our after death state. Being at one with the Father
      could be described as death, death to self - Nirvana.

      I think we need more words to describe this. We only confuse it with
      "anti life" otherwise.


      >Interesting how this goes against my own habitual understanding of the
      >Mother = womb/darkness/birth/death

      Creation itself is feminine, as in Mother Earth. This is how I see it.



      >And why a son (not a daughter) in this whole great dramatic story?

      I see Christ as containing both the feminine and masculine.


      >If the word "Father", as used many times in the Gospels,
      >carries significance (and with Barfield and Steiner it does), then so
      does
      >the absence of "Mother"--and of Daughter (we have Father-Son instead,
      as in
      >Shakespeare's comedies--smile).

      Alice posted this a while back on spiritualscience:
      Tomberg presents an interesting idea which overlays two Trinities in the
      interlocking triangles of Solomon's Seal:

      Father/Son/Holy Spirit (upward triangle)

      Mother/Daughter/Holy Soul (downward triangle)


      >(Gospels...)and even most of anthroposophic teachings (except in the
      >relatively recent Sophianic movement) glance over this Divine Feminine
      >Aspect?


      Steiner says that there is something of a battle between the masculine
      and feminine- see Temple Legend.

      The male line will recover the Lost Word which is the kriyashakti or
      power of regeneration which was lost at the time of the separation of
      the sexes. This was a secret of Freemasonry and had to be kept from
      women ( so I can't tell you any more cos you play for the other team.)

      This quote from Paul BTW
      "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
      unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also
      saith the law.
      And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home:
      for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

      1 Corinthians 14:34-35

      is thought to be evidence that he was prejudiced against women. I think
      it's Bock who explains it refers to the Sibylline gift that some women
      retained, which led them to give "talk in tongues type" demonstrations
      in Church.

      In Christ,
      Bruce
      On a different note-
      Terry's article on the 4 archangels and their Japanese equivalents is
      worth a look:
      http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/terry.boardman/EW8.htm
    • elaine upton
      Hello all, and thanks Bruce for your reply and attention to my questions on Father-son, Mother-daughter, masculine-feminine. What is said by one (Bock?) on
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 9, 2000
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        Hello all, and thanks Bruce for your reply and attention to my questions on
        Father-son, Mother-daughter, masculine-feminine.

        What is said by one (Bock?) on Paul's words about women keeping silent is
        very helpful...Sybilline, huh? I'll stay open to that idea.

        You mention Freemasonry holding the secrets of the lost connection of
        masculine and feminine, but say you can't say more because i "play for the
        other side". --Smile--Well, i hope i am learning to play for both sides.
        --smile again...and right now am playing, i trust, for the lost or
        marginalized feminine (dare i say?).

        Edouard Schure, if i remember, says something related--something abotu
        Moses's initiation being one where he was to lead the Israelites in a more
        masculine direction, otherwise the feminine (Eve) impulses would
        overpower.-In a general way, this makes sense, and yet the balance seems to
        have been terribly disturbed, at least when i look, but then i admit to a
        limited seeing. Even so, i seek to follow a "heart thinking" which tells me
        that it is time to re-dress the balance.

        I will go to the websites you offer. Thanks.
        And thanks for the Masonic/Solomonic double triangle/Trinity.

        Love,
        elaine





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      • 888
        Dear Elaine --Smile--Well, i hope i am learning to play for both sides. ... Yes we do get to swap sides, don t we? Rudolf Steiner says Nowadays, the sole
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 13, 2000
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          Dear Elaine
          --Smile--Well, i hope i am learning to play for both sides.
          >--smile again...and right now am playing, i trust, for the lost or
          >marginalized feminine (dare i say?).

          Yes we do get to swap sides, don't we?
          Rudolf Steiner says
          "Nowadays, the sole possibilty between of creating a balance between the
          two sexes exists only in the Theosophical Society."
          Lec. 18 The Temple Legend. (This is where he discusses the occult battle
          of the sexes.)


          >Edouard Schure, if i remember, says something related--something abotu
          >Moses's initiation being one where he was to lead the Israelites in a
          more
          >masculine direction, otherwise the feminine (Eve) impulses would
          >overpower.

          I wonder if this has something to do with the Kundalini power, that
          Moses also had to overcome in that ancient world.
          I've been thinking further about the Father and death because of Joel's
          question about the Swan Initiation.
          I remembered that RS at the end of an instruction on the AUM referred to
          it as a great Swan.
          Could absorption into this AUM be a state of death to worldly things?

          Love ,
          Bruce
        • Danny F.
          ... There s no such a thing as masculine/feminine properly except in the etherico/physical no? I think extending the duality masculine/feminine to the whole
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 15, 2000
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            --- 888 <bhive@...> wrote:

            > Alice posted this a while back on spiritualscience:
            > Tomberg presents an interesting idea which overlays two Trinities in
            > the
            > interlocking triangles of Solomon's Seal:
            >
            > Father/Son/Holy Spirit (upward triangle)
            >
            > Mother/Daughter/Holy Soul (downward triangle)


            There's no such a thing as masculine/feminine properly except in the
            etherico/physical no? I think extending the 'duality'
            masculine/feminine to the whole cosmos is certainly Luciferic,
            in doing so, you get rid of the threefoldness, only seeing the
            cosmos in an ever sensuous sexual kind of thing.

            Regards,
            Danny

            =====
            "Anthroposophy does not want to impart knowledge.
            It seeks to awaken life."

            --Rudolf Steiner

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          • 888
            ... Dear Danny, I wouldn t agree with that. It used to puzzle me why I couldn t find anything in anthroposophy which defined masculine feminine qualities,
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 15, 2000
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              > There's no such a thing as masculine/feminine properly except in the
              > etherico/physical no?

              Dear Danny,
              I wouldn't agree with that. It used to puzzle me why I
              couldn't find anything in anthroposophy which defined masculine feminine
              qualities, like say we find in the Chinese Ying/Yang: light/dark,
              hard/soft etc. These qualities don't just relate to men and women but
              are universal qualities.

              We have spoken on lists about this before and I asked listmembers if
              they could volunteer some qualities but no one replied. I recently found
              some good quotes from ancient Rome which quite clearly show a common
              belief that the element of water was feminine and fire masculine, for
              example. These are universal elements and were used symbolically in the
              Roman wedding ceremony.

              >I think extending the 'duality'
              > masculine/feminine to the whole cosmos is certainly Luciferic,
              > in doing so, you get rid of the threefoldness, only seeing the
              > cosmos in an ever sensuous sexual kind of thing.

              Actually, I find monism to be more indicative of a Luciferic outlook.
              You just have to look around at the New Age movement. There is even a
              non duality site. This is because monism defines a state when we merge
              our ego with Nirvana.

              You can find in the old Rosicrucain diagrams sexual symbols. The fact
              that human beings place sensual ideas on them is a problem with human
              beings, not the truths that they represent.
              In fact you might call it Jehovistic rather than Luciferic; and the word
              "Jehovah" has been defined by Blavatsky as meaning male/female.

              If you have a copy of Steiner's The Fall of the Spirits of Darkness you
              can read more about these sexual symbols and their deeper meaning. I
              think Dr. Steiner had a problem discussing these things because as he
              said folk were too facetious.

              Sexual doesn't have to mean sensual eg. the plant world.

              Warm Regards,
              Bruce
              BTW this is the subject of the thread and Barfield will get to the point
              soon.
            • Danny F.
              ... You re right, for they don t think nor they have an astral body. I was standing from the human psychological and still quite often anthropomorphic kind of
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 16, 2000
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                --- 888 <bhive@...> wrote:
                > > There's no such a thing as masculine/feminine properly except in
                > the
                > > etherico/physical no?
                >
                > Dear Danny,
                > I wouldn't agree with that. It used to puzzle me
                > why I
                > couldn't find anything in anthroposophy which defined masculine
                > feminine
                > qualities, like say we find in the Chinese Ying/Yang: light/dark,
                > hard/soft etc. These qualities don't just relate to men and women but
                > are universal qualities.
                >
                > We have spoken on lists about this before and I asked listmembers if
                > they could volunteer some qualities but no one replied. I recently
                > found
                > some good quotes from ancient Rome which quite clearly show a common
                > belief that the element of water was feminine and fire masculine, for
                > example. These are universal elements and were used symbolically in
                > the
                > Roman wedding ceremony.
                >
                > >I think extending the 'duality'
                > > masculine/feminine to the whole cosmos is certainly Luciferic,
                > > in doing so, you get rid of the threefoldness, only seeing the
                > > cosmos in an ever sensuous sexual kind of thing.
                >
                > Actually, I find monism to be more indicative of a Luciferic outlook.
                > You just have to look around at the New Age movement. There is even a
                > non duality site. This is because monism defines a state when we
                > merge
                > our ego with Nirvana.
                >
                > You can find in the old Rosicrucain diagrams sexual symbols. The fact
                > that human beings place sensual ideas on them is a problem with human
                > beings, not the truths that they represent.
                > In fact you might call it Jehovistic rather than Luciferic; and the
                > word
                > "Jehovah" has been defined by Blavatsky as meaning male/female.
                >
                > If you have a copy of Steiner's The Fall of the Spirits of Darkness
                > you
                > can read more about these sexual symbols and their deeper meaning. I
                > think Dr. Steiner had a problem discussing these things because as he
                > said folk were too facetious.
                >
                > Sexual doesn't have to mean sensual eg. the plant world.

                You're right, for they don't think nor they have an astral body.
                I was standing from the human psychological and still quite often
                anthropomorphic kind of thinking that goes on nowadays. That's easy
                to see where the anthroposophical kind of thinking stand beside the
                mainstream Luciferical/Ahrimanical one, the heart still bearly think
                organically yet, that's a "seed" that needs the Sun Spirit warmth in
                order to real breakthrough, and under the right Light, grow.


                > Warm Regards,
                > Bruce
                > BTW this is the subject of the thread and Barfield will get to the
                > point
                > soon.

                I guess we just have to wait then...

                Regards,
                Danny

                =====
                "Anthroposophy does not want to impart knowledge.
                It seeks to awaken life."

                --Rudolf Steiner

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              • elaine upton
                Hello Bruce, On the topic of the Father and death, you refer again to the Swan ... Ah! And AUM! I see the swan reaching (A), then folding its long neck in (the
                Message 7 of 8 , Jul 17, 2000
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                  Hello Bruce,
                  On the topic of the Father and death, you refer again to the Swan
                  initiation, and that's a beautiful image of AUM and the Swan:


                  >I remember that at the end of an instruction [Steiner's]
                  >on the AUM referred to
                  >it as a great Swan.
                  >Could absorption into this AUM be a state of death to worldly things?

                  Ah! And AUM! I see the swan reaching (A), then folding its long neck in (the
                  downward or, depending on perspective, the upward U of its neck), then going
                  hoMMMe/death-MMM--the perfect eurythmy!

                  Love,
                  elaine

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