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Sophia and Religous sentiments

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  • Lee A.
    Very insightful historical overview and intersecting of the inspiration cycles. I must disagree though with the somewhat blanket statement that attempts are
    Message 1 of 29 , Oct 26, 2006
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      Very insightful historical overview and intersecting of the inspiration cycles.
       I must disagree though with the somewhat blanket statement that
      attempts are being made to usurp AP with a new Sophia religion. Though this is occurring outside of AP,
      the deeper issue remains that the heart and soul of AP still seems deficient in the exact traits that religion so often supplies:
       devotion and deep heart forces.
       
      Though this complaint of AP has been stated many times, I continue to see it as a main issue and how it weakens the appeal of the movement and offerings of Steiner. . Knowledge and erudition is fine; and this is a path of knowledge but without heart and warmth, its like bamboo  swaying in the wind.
       
      Lee

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Steve Hale <sardisian01@...>
      To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 6:38:20 PM
      Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: Steiner and thinking

      Stephen,

      The first thing that must be understood is that Steiner gave a
      revelation to reasoning, much in the same way that the early church
      fathers were inspired by the faith that streamed down at the
      midpoint of the fourth cultural epoch. That was when the direct
      disciples of Christ, now traveling in higher worlds, entered the
      sphere of Venus and were collectively informed of a further
      dimension of the Christ Being that they had walked with on earth.

      Consequently, they were able to send down a message of love, hope
      and brotherliness to certain prepared individuals on earth, for the
      purpose of establishing the various religious orders. Thus, faith
      became the guiding principle behind the carefully developed
      doctrines of the churches on earth. This also had the effect of
      allowing reasoning to form as the additive element for such doctrine-
      building, which served to curtail the aims of the premature
      instreaming of the fifth cultural epoch into the fourth, which had
      the power to flood the world with consciousness soul in favor of the
      intellect. Faith served to act as a brake to this potential, and
      allowed the necessary slow advance of reasoning power for an induced
      view of the world.

      In modern times, since the beginning of the 20th century, a new
      revelation has become necessary for the further advance of reasoning
      power, and this comes by way of the work of Rudolf Steiner. It is
      particularly advantageous in our immediate time due to the efforts
      to instream the sixth cultural epoch into the fifth, and thus invoke
      a premature form of spirit self under the guise of a so-
      called "Being Anthroposophia" . The goal here is to create another
      icon of religious representation, like the Virgin Mary, that will
      attempt to turn anthroposophy into a religion. Faith and worship
      will attempt to subrate the proper developments of the consciousness
      soul, much in the same way that the earlier attempt tried to
      eliminate the intellect in favor of consciousness.

      This potential can be avoided if works like PoF, Truth and
      Knowledge, Goethe's World Conception, and Riddles of Philosophy, are
      properly extended into the actual content of occult knowledge, and
      adherence to the character of occult science is observed in the
      unfolding power of these new instruments; the instruments of the
      consciousness soul.

      Steve

      ---

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    • Valerie Walsh
      ... to see it as a main issue and how it weakens the appeal of the movement and offerings of Steiner. . Knowledge and erudition is fine; and this is a path of
      Message 2 of 29 , Oct 26, 2006
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        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Lee A." <jlaoak@...> wrote:

        > Though this complaint of AP has been stated many times, I continue
        to see it as a main issue and how it weakens the appeal of the
        movement and offerings of Steiner. . Knowledge and erudition is fine;
        and this is a path of knowledge but without heart and warmth, its
        like bamboo swaying in the wind.
        >
        > Lee


        Here's a song appropriately titled "Mother" A fine rendition of
        motherly knowledge, heart, and warmth with some real steadying
        direction thrown in for free. Everything a guy could hope for-Val



        Mother do you think they'll drop the bomb
        Mother do you think they'll like this song
        Mother do you think they'll try to break my balls
        Ooooh aaah
        Mother, should I build a wall?

        Mother should I run for president
        Mother should I trust the government
        Mother will they put me in the firing line
        Ooooh Ma
        Is it just a wasted time?

        Hush now baby baby don't you cry
        Mama's gonna make all of your nightmares come true
        Mama's gonna put all of her fears into you
        Mama's gonna keep you right here under her wing
        She won't let you fly but she might let you sing
        Mama's gonna keep baby cozy and warm
        Ooooh Babe Ooooh Babe Ooooh Babe
        Of course Mama's gonna help build the wall

        Mother do you think she's good enough for me
        Mother do you think she's dangerous to me
        Mother will she tear your little boy apart
        Ooooh aaah
        Mother will she break my heart?

        Hush now baby baby don't you cry
        Mama's gonna check out all your girlfriends for you
        Mama won't let anyone dirty get through
        Mama's gonna wait up until you get in
        Mama will always find out where you've been
        Mama's gonna keep baby healthy and clean
        Ooooh Babe Ooooh Babe Ooooh babe
        You'll always be baby to me

        Mother did it need to be so high?
      • Gia Bibileishvili
        Once Steiner said: If you take one step towards mysticism, take three steps towards morality.. I think this idea expresses the focal meaning of heart factors
        Message 3 of 29 , Oct 26, 2006
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          Once Steiner said: "If you take one step towards mysticism, take three steps towards morality.." I think this idea expresses the focal meaning of heart factors in spiritual science.
           
          Gia

          "Lee A." <jlaoak@...> wrote:
          Very insightful historical overview and intersecting of the inspiration cycles.
           I must disagree though with the somewhat blanket statement that
          attempts are being made to usurp AP with a new Sophia religion. Though this is occurring outside of AP,
          the deeper issue remains that the heart and soul of AP still seems deficient in the exact traits that religion so often supplies:
           devotion and deep heart forces.
           
          Though this complaint of AP has been stated many times, I continue to see it as a main issue and how it weakens the appeal of the movement and offerings of Steiner. . Knowledge and erudition is fine; and this is a path of knowledge but without heart and warmth, its like bamboo  swaying in the wind.
           
          Lee

          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Steve Hale <sardisian01@ yahoo.com>
          To: anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 6:38:20 PM
          Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: Steiner and thinking

          Stephen,

          The first thing that must be understood is that Steiner gave a
          revelation to reasoning, much in the same way that the early church
          fathers were inspired by the faith that streamed down at the
          midpoint of the fourth cultural epoch. That was when the direct
          disciples of Christ, now traveling in higher worlds, entered the
          sphere of Venus and were collectively informed of a further
          dimension of the Christ Being that they had walked with on earth.

          Consequently, they were able to send down a message of love, hope
          and brotherliness to certain prepared individuals on earth, for the
          purpose of establishing the various religious orders. Thus, faith
          became the guiding principle behind the carefully developed
          doctrines of the churches on earth. This also had the effect of
          allowing reasoning to form as the additive element for such doctrine-
          building, which served to curtail the aims of the premature
          instreaming of the fifth cultural epoch into the fourth, which had
          the power to flood the world with consciousness soul in favor of the
          intellect. Faith served to act as a brake to this potential, and
          allowed the necessary slow advance of reasoning power for an induced
          view of the world.

          In modern times, since the beginning of the 20th century, a new
          revelation has become necessary for the further advance of reasoning
          power, and this comes by way of the work of Rudolf Steiner. It is
          particularly advantageous in our immediate time due to the efforts
          to instream the sixth cultural epoch into the fifth, and thus invoke
          a premature form of spirit self under the guise of a so-
          called "Being Anthroposophia" . The goal here is to create another
          icon of religious representation, like the Virgin Mary, that will
          attempt to turn anthroposophy into a religion. Faith and worship
          will attempt to subrate the proper developments of the consciousness
          soul, much in the same way that the earlier attempt tried to
          eliminate the intellect in favor of consciousness.

          This potential can be avoided if works like PoF, Truth and
          Knowledge, Goethe's World Conception, and Riddles of Philosophy, are
          properly extended into the actual content of occult knowledge, and
          adherence to the character of occult science is observed in the
          unfolding power of these new instruments; the instruments of the
          consciousness soul.

          Steve

          ---
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        • Valerie Walsh
          Another Mother Weighs In:   Artist: Jethro Tull Album: Aqualung Title: Mother Goose As I did walk by hampstead fair I came upon mother goose -- so I turned
          Message 4 of 29 , Oct 27, 2006
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            Another Mother Weighs In:

             
            Artist: Jethro Tull
            Album: Aqualung
            Title: Mother Goose

            As I did walk by hampstead fair
            I came upon mother goose -- so I turned her loose --
            She was screaming.
            And a foreign student said to me --
            Was it really true there are elephants and lions too
            In piccadilly circus?
            Walked down by the bathing pond
            To try and catch some sun.
            Saw at least a hundred schoolgirls sobbing
            Into hankerchiefs as one.
            I don't believe they knew
            I was a schoolboy.

            And a bearded lady said to me --
            If you start your raving and your misbehaving --
            You'll be sorry.
            Then the chicken-fancier came to play --
            With his long red beard (and his sister's weird:
            She drives a lorry).

            Laughed down by the putting green --
            I popped `em in their holes.
            Four and twenty labourers were labouring --
            Digging up their gold.
            I don't believe they knew
            That I was long john silver.
            Saw johnny scarecrow make his rounds
            In his jet-black mac (which he won't give back) --
            Stole it from a snow man.
          • Steve Hale
            ... inspiration cycles. ... Though this is occurring outside of AP, ... to see it as a main issue and how it weakens the appeal of the movement and offerings
            Message 5 of 29 , Oct 28, 2006
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              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Lee A." <jlaoak@...> wrote:
              >
              > Very insightful historical overview and intersecting of the
              inspiration cycles.
              > I must disagree though with the somewhat blanket statement that
              > attempts are being made to usurp AP with a new Sophia religion.
              Though this is occurring outside of AP,
              > the deeper issue remains that the heart and soul of AP still seems
              deficient in the exact traits that religion so often supplies:
              > devotion and deep heart forces.
              >
              > Though this complaint of AP has been stated many times, I continue
              to see it as a main issue and how it weakens the appeal of the
              movement and offerings of Steiner. . Knowledge and erudition is
              fine; and this is a path of knowledge but without heart and warmth,
              its like bamboo swaying in the wind.
              >
              > Lee

              "Mankind thinks today with a faculty that is entirely owed to
              spiritual beings who are now held prisoner within his own breast,
              until such time as he himself becomes conscious enough to realize
              that he must stream a force of warmth out of his own inner being,
              and its resolve, in order to free them. And this is how bliss arises
              in human perceptual experience; for these beings, the mighty Spirits
              of Wisdom Themselves, have untold secrets that only their freedom
              can reveal to mankind. Spiritual Science is the method that exists
              to effect this liberation, because it not only fully realizes this
              situation of the sacrifice of the Kyriotetes, but also provides the
              means for the forming of the needed instruments of the consciousness
              soul, which serve to stream the loving warmth forces back down to
              the human heart and those beings imprisoned therein."

              Steve
            • carol
              This is a rough translation from R Steiner s
              Message 6 of 29 , Oct 29, 2006
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                <Clarity in the details, depth within the whole, these are the 2
                most important requirements for knowledge>

                This is a rough translation from R Steiner's Introduction to
                Goethe's Scientific Writings

                Steve appears (to me) to enjoy 'polishing' certain details relative
                to a specific angle of approaching conscious spiritiual experience.
                As he has most likely experienced through reading the many lectures
                of RS, there are many angles (not only employing a mathematical
                approach) to recollecting and understanding Spiritual facts, though
                he appears likely to return to his chosen one because it furnishes
                him with the solid clarity he identifies with.

                Lee, you seem to be in need of developing inner depth- of the heart,
                and that's right on! That's also well covered in Steiner's
                lectures. For example, understanding the Christ event is the
                discovery of the great potentials destined for human 'Love'; this is
                far from being a concept, it is a far reaching living experience of
                one's own Eternal Purpose as well as that of Humanity's as a whole
                and that of Cosmos as well.

                Steiner often used a balance of objective thought and poetry to
                convey truths of the Spiritual World. In his treatment of
                scientific subjects (medecine etc), he employed principly objective
                thought forms. For Steve to emphasise one at the expense of the
                other is to give Anthroposophy ' a sanitizing treatment'. Steiner
                has stated that in the coming era, humanity will once again take up
                the faculty of elaborate pictoral descriptions as caracterised in
                Greek times, in addition to the current faculty of abstract
                thought. This will allow for the healthy expression of a wide
                spread 'Conscious Soul'.

                Steve must be aware that Spirit is most effectively conveyed in art
                forms; classical music, danse, prose, poetry etc. (these forms offer
                the potential of conveying Spirit's living movement). It remains
                the task of each one of us, to balance our 'matured' abstract
                thought capabilities with the flexibility of art forms, within our
                souls, so as to allow the Spiritual world to express herself
                through our inner worlds and in consequence, through our outward
                expressions.

                And Lee, Spirit always asks me, How much have you loved?

                Carol.



                -


                -- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Lee A." <jlaoak@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Very insightful historical overview and intersecting of the
                > inspiration cycles.
                > > I must disagree though with the somewhat blanket statement that
                > > attempts are being made to usurp AP with a new Sophia religion.
                > Though this is occurring outside of AP,
                > > the deeper issue remains that the heart and soul of AP still
                seems
                > deficient in the exact traits that religion so often supplies:
                > > devotion and deep heart forces.
                > >
                > > Though this complaint of AP has been stated many times, I
                continue
                > to see it as a main issue and how it weakens the appeal of the
                > movement and offerings of Steiner. . Knowledge and erudition is
                > fine; and this is a path of knowledge but without heart and
                warmth,
                > its like bamboo swaying in the wind.
                > >
                > > Lee
                >
                > "Mankind thinks today with a faculty that is entirely owed to
                > spiritual beings who are now held prisoner within his own breast,
                > until such time as he himself becomes conscious enough to realize
                > that he must stream a force of warmth out of his own inner being,
                > and its resolve, in order to free them. And this is how bliss
                arises
                > in human perceptual experience; for these beings, the mighty
                Spirits
                > of Wisdom Themselves, have untold secrets that only their freedom
                > can reveal to mankind. Spiritual Science is the method that exists
                > to effect this liberation, because it not only fully realizes this
                > situation of the sacrifice of the Kyriotetes, but also provides
                the
                > means for the forming of the needed instruments of the
                consciousness
                > soul, which serve to stream the loving warmth forces back down to
                > the human heart and those beings imprisoned therein."
                >
                > Steve
                >
              • Steve Hale
                ... relative ... experience. ... lectures ... though ... It would be more correct to say that I am interested in conveying concrete facts of spiritual
                Message 7 of 29 , Oct 29, 2006
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                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > <Clarity in the details, depth within the whole, these are the 2
                  > most important requirements for knowledge>
                  >
                  > This is a rough translation from R Steiner's Introduction to
                  > Goethe's Scientific Writings
                  >
                  > Steve appears (to me) to enjoy 'polishing' certain details
                  relative
                  > to a specific angle of approaching conscious spiritiual
                  experience.
                  > As he has most likely experienced through reading the many
                  lectures
                  > of RS, there are many angles (not only employing a mathematical
                  > approach) to recollecting and understanding Spiritual facts,
                  though
                  > he appears likely to return to his chosen one because it furnishes
                  > him with the solid clarity he identifies with.

                  It would be more correct to say that I am interested in conveying
                  concrete facts of spiritual experience in an efficient manner due to
                  the nature of this medium of the etheric world. Now, if we were
                  together in our fourfold state of clear day-consciousness, multiple
                  angles of impartation could occur, with the force behind the words
                  used becoming more evident of facts experienced, not merely read.

                  <snip>
                  > Steiner often used a balance of objective thought and poetry to
                  > convey truths of the Spiritual World. In his treatment of
                  > scientific subjects (medecine etc), he employed principly
                  objective
                  > thought forms. For Steve to emphasise one at the expense of the
                  > other is to give Anthroposophy ' a sanitizing treatment'. Steiner
                  > has stated that in the coming era, humanity will once again take
                  up
                  > the faculty of elaborate pictoral descriptions as caracterised in
                  > Greek times, in addition to the current faculty of abstract
                  > thought. This will allow for the healthy expression of a wide
                  > spread 'Conscious Soul'.

                  Again, objective thought forms are the basis of concrete
                  representations, with or without the picture images, which may or
                  may not come across with the words.
                  >
                  > Steve must be aware that Spirit is most effectively conveyed in
                  art
                  > forms; classical music, danse, prose, poetry etc. (these forms
                  offer
                  > the potential of conveying Spirit's living movement). It remains
                  > the task of each one of us, to balance our 'matured' abstract
                  > thought capabilities with the flexibility of art forms, within our
                  > souls, so as to allow the Spiritual world to express herself
                  > through our inner worlds and in consequence, through our outward
                  > expressions.

                  It is important to know the difference between an abstraction of the
                  subjective experience of an outer, external world built up for use
                  by the physical body, and the expression of concrete thought, which
                  is always spoken in relation to the causal worlds behind the
                  superficial and abstract. Thus, art forms are always linked to the
                  outer world of appearances, while pure objective concrete thought
                  exists to describe the purely spiritual workings of beings, like the
                  Kyriotetes, and the path of their liberation when conscious soul
                  reasoning extends from head to heart.

                  Steve
                • carol
                  Sorry Steve, I think you re missing a big one. Try getting ahold of a series of lectures close to the following title: The fundamental social demands of our
                  Message 8 of 29 , Oct 30, 2006
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                    Sorry Steve, I think you're missing a big one. Try getting ahold of a
                    series of lectures close to the following title: The fundamental
                    social demands of our time. dated 1918

                    I only have a couple of booklets, in French, but in the lectures that
                    I do have, I found Steiner furnishes many specifics in spite of
                    obivious political dangers.

                    I'm wasn't reproaching you for your solid stand with clear logic, but
                    I think that you should know that it's not absolute, that you are
                    surely going to evolve within it, and that 'may' represents a
                    signature of past incarnations.

                    I understand that you have most likely worked it through during most
                    of your adult life and that it was also most likely your
                    natural 'ground' from the beginning. I'm not deminishing it, I'm
                    just illustrating that for example, mine is a vantage point that is
                    valid, different, and which has also been developed throughout an
                    adult life.

                    Carol.





                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > <Clarity in the details, depth within the whole, these are the 2
                    > > most important requirements for knowledge>
                    > >
                    > > This is a rough translation from R Steiner's Introduction to
                    > > Goethe's Scientific Writings
                    > >
                    > > Steve appears (to me) to enjoy 'polishing' certain details
                    > relative
                    > > to a specific angle of approaching conscious spiritiual
                    > experience.
                    > > As he has most likely experienced through reading the many
                    > lectures
                    > > of RS, there are many angles (not only employing a mathematical
                    > > approach) to recollecting and understanding Spiritual facts,
                    > though
                    > > he appears likely to return to his chosen one because it
                    furnishes
                    > > him with the solid clarity he identifies with.
                    >
                    > It would be more correct to say that I am interested in conveying
                    > concrete facts of spiritual experience in an efficient manner due
                    to
                    > the nature of this medium of the etheric world. Now, if we were
                    > together in our fourfold state of clear day-consciousness, multiple
                    > angles of impartation could occur, with the force behind the words
                    > used becoming more evident of facts experienced, not merely read.
                    >
                    > <snip>
                    > > Steiner often used a balance of objective thought and poetry to
                    > > convey truths of the Spiritual World. In his treatment of
                    > > scientific subjects (medecine etc), he employed principly
                    > objective
                    > > thought forms. For Steve to emphasise one at the expense of the
                    > > other is to give Anthroposophy ' a sanitizing treatment'.
                    Steiner
                    > > has stated that in the coming era, humanity will once again take
                    > up
                    > > the faculty of elaborate pictoral descriptions as caracterised in
                    > > Greek times, in addition to the current faculty of abstract
                    > > thought. This will allow for the healthy expression of a wide
                    > > spread 'Conscious Soul'.
                    >
                    > Again, objective thought forms are the basis of concrete
                    > representations, with or without the picture images, which may or
                    > may not come across with the words.
                    > >
                    > > Steve must be aware that Spirit is most effectively conveyed in
                    > art
                    > > forms; classical music, danse, prose, poetry etc. (these forms
                    > offer
                    > > the potential of conveying Spirit's living movement). It remains
                    > > the task of each one of us, to balance our 'matured' abstract
                    > > thought capabilities with the flexibility of art forms, within
                    our
                    > > souls, so as to allow the Spiritual world to express herself
                    > > through our inner worlds and in consequence, through our outward
                    > > expressions.
                    >
                    > It is important to know the difference between an abstraction of
                    the
                    > subjective experience of an outer, external world built up for use
                    > by the physical body, and the expression of concrete thought, which
                    > is always spoken in relation to the causal worlds behind the
                    > superficial and abstract. Thus, art forms are always linked to the
                    > outer world of appearances, while pure objective concrete thought
                    > exists to describe the purely spiritual workings of beings, like
                    the
                    > Kyriotetes, and the path of their liberation when conscious soul
                    > reasoning extends from head to heart.
                    >
                    > Steve
                    >
                  • Steve Hale
                    ... of a ... that ... What if it could be shown that man embodies the universe itself; that he replicates the universe in its entirety all the way down to the
                    Message 9 of 29 , Oct 30, 2006
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                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Sorry Steve, I think you're missing a big one. Try getting ahold
                      of a
                      > series of lectures close to the following title: The fundamental
                      > social demands of our time. dated 1918
                      >
                      > I only have a couple of booklets, in French, but in the lectures
                      that
                      > I do have, I found Steiner furnishes many specifics in spite of
                      > obivious political dangers.

                      What if it could be shown that man embodies the universe itself; that
                      he replicates the universe in its entirety all the way down to the
                      cellular level? And when he dies, it is like the turning of a glove
                      outside in, and all that comprised the inner nature of man becomes
                      the elements of the universe --planets, stars, etc., and man sees
                      himself as the center, the Sun, of his own solar system; and residing
                      as the center, the I Am, of his own universe, he says: "That thou
                      art. Thou art that."

                      If man can view himself as a part of everything right now, while he
                      lives, then he can reasonably adduce that it is a universal constant,
                      only requiring the proper state of mind in order to attain the
                      perception. When he dies everything becomes lost because things
                      require the basis of a physical body, which has been discarded. The
                      only matter that remains are the universal constants themselves,
                      e.g., glandular/hormonal, and organic systems, which revert to their
                      respective planetary/astral origins. All this can be verified at
                      death, once all the sheaths (physical, etheric, and astral) have been
                      discarded and all that remains is the Atman, or I Am, itself. Then
                      we perceive our own universe, from the inside out.

                      I took the time to look up to the stars one summer and found a
                      huge sign directly over my house. On the left-hand side was the
                      north point of the big dipper (ursa major), and on the right-hand
                      side was Cassiopeia, the "big W". And right in the middle was
                      Cepheus, the bull constellation. Anytime you look up to the stars
                      you are no longer in this world. You become part of the star system
                      of the universe. And you can find yourself there.

                      Steve
                    • Iris Sullivan
                      Dear Steve that was quite beautifully put. Iris Steve Hale wrote: --- In
                      Message 10 of 29 , Oct 30, 2006
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                        Dear Steve
                        that was quite beautifully put.
                        Iris

                        Steve Hale <sardisian01@...> wrote:
                        --- In anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, "carol" <organicethics@ ...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Sorry Steve, I think you're missing a big one. Try getting ahold
                        of a
                        > series of lectures close to the following title: The fundamental
                        > social demands of our time. dated 1918
                        >
                        > I only have a couple of booklets, in French, but in the lectures
                        that
                        > I do have, I found Steiner furnishes many specifics in spite of
                        > obivious political dangers.

                        What if it could be shown that man embodies the universe itself; that
                        he replicates the universe in its entirety all the way down to the
                        cellular level? And when he dies, it is like the turning of a glove
                        outside in, and all that comprised the inner nature of man becomes
                        the elements of the universe --planets, stars, etc., and man sees
                        himself as the center, the Sun, of his own solar system; and residing
                        as the center, the I Am, of his own universe, he says: "That thou
                        art. Thou art that."

                        If man can view himself as a part of everything right now, while he
                        lives, then he can reasonably adduce that it is a universal constant,
                        only requiring the proper state of mind in order to attain the
                        perception. When he dies everything becomes lost because things
                        require the basis of a physical body, which has been discarded. The
                        only matter that remains are the universal constants themselves,
                        e.g., glandular/hormonal, and organic systems, which revert to their
                        respective planetary/astral origins. All this can be verified at
                        death, once all the sheaths (physical, etheric, and astral) have been
                        discarded and all that remains is the Atman, or I Am, itself. Then
                        we perceive our own universe, from the inside out.

                        I took the time to look up to the stars one summer and found a
                        huge sign directly over my house. On the left-hand side was the
                        north point of the big dipper (ursa major), and on the right-hand
                        side was Cassiopeia, the "big W". And right in the middle was
                        Cepheus, the bull constellation. Anytime you look up to the stars
                        you are no longer in this world. You become part of the star system
                        of the universe. And you can find yourself there.

                        Steve


                      • carol
                        OK, so this is a small observation, profound and precise as it may be. It is not that which encompasses and reveals ALL- all that involves the universe and
                        Message 11 of 29 , Oct 31, 2006
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                          OK, so this is a small observation, profound and precise as it may
                          be. It is not that which encompasses and reveals ALL- all that
                          involves the universe and man. It seems to me that there is physical
                          evolution awaiting the human species which will directly permit for
                          more comprehensive conscious spiritual experience. Also, I
                          personally don't beleive that we as human beings at this time are
                          physically equiped to behold ALL the intricacies of existance on our
                          own, regardless if we acheive the 'proper state of mind'. I expect
                          that you must be aware that Steiner himself at times depended
                          upon 'communications' from discarnate souls to formulate his
                          material, if not communications from more sublime beings as well.

                          I'm still waiting to be able to consult the many months worth of
                          exchanges on the subject of:

                          Carol, you would be interested to know that there was, and still
                          is, an anthroposophy group in which all this material was discussed
                          over the course of the past two years, and ended on August 5th of
                          this year. I wrote about 600 pages of material similar to what you
                          find of mine herein on this group. And this subject of the contents
                          of "The Occult Movement..." was an important topic, especially as it
                          referred to the modern attempt to bring forth a recapitulation of
                          all that had caused it to be brought forth by Steiner; the schism
                          that had infected the AS throughout the first ten months of 1915

                          It puzzles me that you seem to have revoked this priveledge in my
                          regard. May you suspect that I would exercise 'selfish' intent where
                          I to look into what recent American Anthroposophical discussions have
                          revealed on the subject in question?

                          Carol.



                          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Sorry Steve, I think you're missing a big one. Try getting ahold
                          > of a
                          > > series of lectures close to the following title: The fundamental
                          > > social demands of our time. dated 1918
                          > >
                          > > I only have a couple of booklets, in French, but in the lectures
                          > that
                          > > I do have, I found Steiner furnishes many specifics in spite of
                          > > obivious political dangers.
                          >
                          > What if it could be shown that man embodies the universe itself;
                          that
                          > he replicates the universe in its entirety all the way down to the
                          > cellular level? And when he dies, it is like the turning of a glove
                          > outside in, and all that comprised the inner nature of man becomes
                          > the elements of the universe --planets, stars, etc., and man sees
                          > himself as the center, the Sun, of his own solar system; and
                          residing
                          > as the center, the I Am, of his own universe, he says: "That thou
                          > art. Thou art that."
                          >
                          > If man can view himself as a part of everything right now, while he
                          > lives, then he can reasonably adduce that it is a universal
                          constant,
                          > only requiring the proper state of mind in order to attain the
                          > perception. When he dies everything becomes lost because things
                          > require the basis of a physical body, which has been discarded. The
                          > only matter that remains are the universal constants themselves,
                          > e.g., glandular/hormonal, and organic systems, which revert to their
                          > respective planetary/astral origins. All this can be verified at
                          > death, once all the sheaths (physical, etheric, and astral) have
                          been
                          > discarded and all that remains is the Atman, or I Am, itself. Then
                          > we perceive our own universe, from the inside out.
                          >
                          > I took the time to look up to the stars one summer and found a
                          > huge sign directly over my house. On the left-hand side was the
                          > north point of the big dipper (ursa major), and on the right-hand
                          > side was Cassiopeia, the "big W". And right in the middle was
                          > Cepheus, the bull constellation. Anytime you look up to the stars
                          > you are no longer in this world. You become part of the star system
                          > of the universe. And you can find yourself there.
                          >
                          > Steve
                          >
                        • Iris Sullivan
                          I guess my admiration goes to Carol not to steve, Iris Steve Hale wrote: --- In
                          Message 12 of 29 , Oct 31, 2006
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                            I guess my admiration goes to Carol not to steve,
                            Iris

                            Steve Hale <sardisian01@...> wrote:
                            --- In anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, "carol" <organicethics@ ...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > Sorry Steve, I think you're missing a big one. Try getting ahold
                            of a
                            > series of lectures close to the following title: The fundamental
                            > social demands of our time. dated 1918
                            >
                            > I only have a couple of booklets, in French, but in the lectures
                            that
                            > I do have, I found Steiner furnishes many specifics in spite of
                            > obivious political dangers.

                            What if it could be shown that man embodies the universe itself; that
                            he replicates the universe in its entirety all the way down to the
                            cellular level? And when he dies, it is like the turning of a glove
                            outside in, and all that comprised the inner nature of man becomes
                            the elements of the universe --planets, stars, etc., and man sees
                            himself as the center, the Sun, of his own solar system; and residing
                            as the center, the I Am, of his own universe, he says: "That thou
                            art. Thou art that."

                            If man can view himself as a part of everything right now, while he
                            lives, then he can reasonably adduce that it is a universal constant,
                            only requiring the proper state of mind in order to attain the
                            perception. When he dies everything becomes lost because things
                            require the basis of a physical body, which has been discarded. The
                            only matter that remains are the universal constants themselves,
                            e.g., glandular/hormonal, and organic systems, which revert to their
                            respective planetary/astral origins. All this can be verified at
                            death, once all the sheaths (physical, etheric, and astral) have been
                            discarded and all that remains is the Atman, or I Am, itself. Then
                            we perceive our own universe, from the inside out.

                            I took the time to look up to the stars one summer and found a
                            huge sign directly over my house. On the left-hand side was the
                            north point of the big dipper (ursa major), and on the right-hand
                            side was Cassiopeia, the "big W". And right in the middle was
                            Cepheus, the bull constellation. Anytime you look up to the stars
                            you are no longer in this world. You become part of the star system
                            of the universe. And you can find yourself there.

                            Steve


                          • Steve Hale
                            ... What I wanted to convey was that spiritual science IS the social demand of our age, as it serves to activate the conscience of the thinker who doesn t
                            Message 13 of 29 , Oct 31, 2006
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                              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > OK, so this is a small observation, profound and precise as it may
                              > be. It is not that which encompasses and reveals ALL- all that
                              > involves the universe and man. It seems to me that there is physical
                              > evolution awaiting the human species which will directly permit for
                              > more comprehensive conscious spiritual experience. Also, I
                              > personally don't beleive that we as human beings at this time are
                              > physically equiped to behold ALL the intricacies of existance on our
                              > own, regardless if we acheive the 'proper state of mind'. I expect
                              > that you must be aware that Steiner himself at times depended
                              > upon 'communications' from discarnate souls to formulate his
                              > material, if not communications from more sublime beings as well.

                              What I wanted to convey was that spiritual science IS the social demand
                              of our age, as it serves to activate the conscience of the thinker who
                              doesn't resist the influence of the clairvoyant, and thus sees the
                              expansion of thoughts, even into its relationship to higher worlds.
                              And even by just beginning this type of study, we improve our state of
                              mind in such a way that we are protected from those forces that would
                              like to steal away our intelligence. With spiritual science, we hold
                              it safe and secure.

                              Steve
                            • carol
                              In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, carol ... may be. It is not that which encompasses and reveals ALL- all that involves the universe and
                              Message 14 of 29 , Oct 31, 2006
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                                In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@>
                                wrote:
                                > >
                                > > OK, so this is a small observation, profound and precise as it
                                may be. It is not that which encompasses and reveals ALL- all that
                                involves the universe and man. It seems to me that there is
                                physical evolution awaiting the human species which will directly
                                permit for more comprehensive conscious spiritual experience. Also,
                                I personally don't beleive that we as human beings at this time are
                                physically equiped to behold ALL the intricacies of existance on
                                our own, regardless if we acheive the 'proper state of mind'. I
                                expect that you must be aware that Steiner himself at times depended
                                upon 'communications' from discarnate souls to formulate his
                                material, if not communications from more sublime beings as well.



                                *What I wanted to convey was that spiritual science IS the social
                                demand of our age, as it serves to activate the conscience of the
                                thinker who doesn't resist the influence of the clairvoyant, and thus
                                sees the expansion of thoughts, even into its relationship to higher
                                worlds. And even by just beginning this type of study, we improve our
                                state of mind in such a way that we are protected from those forces
                                that would like to steal away our intelligence. With spiritual
                                science, we hold it safe and secure.
                                >
                                Steve

                                *Except I found quite recently, that Spiritual Science alone no
                                longer could protect me from <the forces that would like to steal
                                away our intelligence>. I had to join together 'in soul' with others
                                who carry within them the wisdom and inner strength for
                                understanding Spiritual Science. Our earthly environment has
                                undergone big occult changes of recent. And though not covered
                                totally (Ahriman is powerful, resourceful as well are the occultists
                                and their technologies; the battle of good against evil is out in
                                the open and livid..) this combination has allowed me to resume a
                                satisfactory level of 'study' habits. Carol.


                                >
                              • Steve Hale
                                ... I guess, or rather I would say without equivocation, that your admiration can be colored any way you like. Maybe next time, it will swing back in my
                                Message 15 of 29 , Oct 31, 2006
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                                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Iris Sullivan <ameris@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I guess my admiration goes to Carol not to steve,
                                  > Iris

                                  I guess, or rather I would say without equivocation, that your
                                  admiration can be colored any way you like. Maybe next time, it will
                                  swing back in my direction. I trust that I haven't really failed to
                                  respond or answer any concerns or areas of interest, if this makes a
                                  difference. The head-to-heart thing is the biggest issue that needs to
                                  be understood in the world of anthroposophy today.

                                  Steve
                                • Steve Hale
                                  ... others ... occultists ... A past conception of Nature still bore within it the Spirit with which the source of all human evolution is connected. By
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Oct 31, 2006
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                                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > *Except I found quite recently, that Spiritual Science alone no
                                    > longer could protect me from <the forces that would like to steal
                                    > away our intelligence>. I had to join together 'in soul' with
                                    others
                                    > who carry within them the wisdom and inner strength for
                                    > understanding Spiritual Science. Our earthly environment has
                                    > undergone big occult changes of recent. And though not covered
                                    > totally (Ahriman is powerful, resourceful as well are the
                                    occultists
                                    > and their technologies; the battle of good against evil is out in
                                    > the open and livid..) this combination has allowed me to resume a
                                    > satisfactory level of 'study' habits. Carol.

                                    "A past conception of Nature still bore within it the Spirit with
                                    which the source of all human evolution is connected. By degrees,
                                    this Spirit vanished altogether from man's theory of Nature. The
                                    purely materialistic spirit has entered in its place, and passed
                                    from theory of Nature into the technical civilization of mankind.

                                    This makes it urgent for man to find in conscious experience a
                                    knowledge of the Spirit, wherein he will rise as high above Nature
                                    as in his sub-natural technical activities he sinks beneath her. He
                                    will thus create within him the inner strength 'not to go under'.

                                    In the age of Natural Science, since about the middle of the 19th
                                    century, the civilized activities of mankind have gradually slid
                                    downward, not only into the lowest regions of Nature, but
                                    even 'beneath nature'. Technical Science and Industry have become
                                    Sub-Nature."

                                    These are the last words spoken by Rudolf Steiner in
                                    his "Anthroposophical Leading Thoughts", dated April 12, 1925.

                                    Steve
                                  • Steve Hale
                                    ... physical ... for ... The pineal gland, or third eye, which constituted the clairvoyance which was normal until the physical eye was sufficiently formed in
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Oct 31, 2006
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                                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...>
                                      wrote:
                                      >
                                      > OK, so this is a small observation, profound and precise as it may
                                      > be. It is not that which encompasses and reveals ALL- all that
                                      > involves the universe and man. It seems to me that there is
                                      physical
                                      > evolution awaiting the human species which will directly permit
                                      for
                                      > more comprehensive conscious spiritual experience.

                                      The pineal gland, or third eye, which constituted the clairvoyance
                                      which was normal until the physical eye was sufficiently
                                      formed in order to produce the pictures which refer to our abstract
                                      concepts since the beginning of the 15th century, at one time was
                                      our lantern for seeing and sensing those in our proximal
                                      surroundings. Nowadays, the physical eye and its light-grasping
                                      instrument, serves this function as it pertains to a physical-
                                      material world. Clairvoyance, or "clarified intuition", as I prefer
                                      to call it, requires the pressure of intensified thinking for its
                                      arousal.

                                      Simply put, in today's environment, most people are content to follow
                                      the herd and believe whatever propaganda they're told, with no
                                      pressure required on the brows, or the attending synapses of
                                      conscious production. On the other hand, there are those who seek to
                                      surrender thought-process in favor of a certain 'blissful ignorance',
                                      which says: "Let me empty my head of all thoughtful concern, in order
                                      to experience the timelessness that proves that all this shitful
                                      concern about the world and its miseries is an illusion; just alot of
                                      unnecessary crap for the morons who bother themselves with it."

                                      And they call it objective consciousness, those who subscribe to this
                                      practice. But, do they truly have the background necessary to fully
                                      realize the contentment that they seek? In other words, this world
                                      is a battleground for truth and knowledge vs. lies and ignorance.
                                      Our earth is a mediator sphere; the middle sphere in an evolutionary
                                      process that has come three steps forward, and has three steps in its
                                      future. As such, Earth equates to Tuesday, in terms of the days of
                                      the week. Prior to this, there was Saturday, Sunday, and Monday.

                                      And following Tuesday, there will be Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday.
                                      Yes, the earth will pass into Wednesday. Yes, indeed.

                                      In fact, one of the most pertinent articles I have ever read was in
                                      Scientific American, c. 1989, entitled: "The Pineal Gland as a Time-
                                      Keeping Device". Apparently, the pineal gland is the only gland in
                                      the human body to go into remission after we are born. The rest of
                                      the glandular/hormonal system in the newborn infant becomes
                                      exponential in its development. According to the investigative
                                      research that comprised this article, the contraction of the pineal
                                      gland's activity after birth causes an enzyme to form that accounts
                                      for the function of time. In other words, our biological clock is a
                                      function of the rhythms that are created when the pineal gland
                                      undergoes this reduction of function after birth.

                                      At birth, the pineal gland is fully operative as a space-keeping
                                      device indicative of the higher worlds that we know and experience
                                      between death and rebirth. If, for some reason, we were able to
                                      maintain the activity of the pineal gland in its extended form after
                                      birth, we would never lose contact with the higher worlds and the
                                      divine spiritual beings that we knew there. But, because our
                                      function as human beings on earth is to evolve our Ego, according to
                                      the laws of physics, i.e., the 'flat-plane concept', we must lose the
                                      higher functionality of the pineal gland in favor of the time
                                      concept.

                                      Let's face it; without time, we would never find our feet. The
                                      pineal gland is the symbol of our astral body, which is fully
                                      formulated prior to our birth, for obvious reasons. Once born,
                                      we must relinquish this knowledge in favor of the sense perception
                                      that serves to accord the physical body and its striving for 3-
                                      dimensional awareness. As a result, the part of the pineal gland
                                      that descends into dormancy corresponds to that part that dwells
                                      subsconsciously until higher knowledge seeks to bring it to
                                      awakening.

                                      In other words, the pineal gland contains the astral body, divided
                                      into two segments:
                                      1) the five organs that represent the sense perception necessary for
                                      the physical body's honing mechanism; and,
                                      2) the seven organs that represent the supersensible perception
                                      necessary for objective consciousness to arise as a consequence of
                                      spiritual striving.

                                      Steve
                                    • holderlin66
                                      Bradford brought; It isn t that we build the physical world up in order to imagine some god on the top of the heap... It is that Stephen Hawkings and Darwin
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Nov 1, 2006
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                                        Bradford brought;

                                        "It isn't that we build the physical world up in order to imagine
                                        some god on the top of the heap... It is that Stephen Hawkings and
                                        Darwin started from the bottom and couldn't and can't in Stephen
                                        Hawkings case, find anything of actual spirit out of the mud pile
                                        even if the mud pile becomes a pyramid of skulls three stories high
                                        or comes about through a giant big bang where Space and Time
                                        suddenly appear from nothing. How do we accept such nonsense?"

                                        Steve Hale brought:

                                        " At birth, the pineal gland is fully operative as a space-keeping
                                        device indicative of the higher worlds that we know and experience
                                        between death and rebirth. If, for some reason, we were able to
                                        maintain the activity of the pineal gland in its extended form after
                                        birth, we would never lose contact with the higher worlds and the
                                        divine spiritual beings that we knew there. But, because our
                                        function as human beings on earth is to evolve our Ego, according to
                                        the laws of physics, i.e., the 'flat-plane concept', we must lose
                                        the higher functionality of the pineal gland in favor of the time
                                        concept.

                                        "Let's face it; without time, we would never find our feet. The
                                        pineal gland is the symbol of our astral body, which is fully
                                        formulated prior to our birth, for obvious reasons. Once born,
                                        we must relinquish this knowledge in favor of the sense perception
                                        that serves to accord the physical body and its striving for 3-
                                        dimensional awareness. As a result, the part of the pineal gland
                                        that descends into dormancy corresponds to that part that dwells
                                        subsconsciously until higher knowledge seeks to bring it to
                                        awakening.

                                        In other words, the pineal gland contains the astral body, divided
                                        into two segments:

                                        1) the five organs that represent the sense perception necessary for
                                        the physical body's honing mechanism; and,

                                        2) the seven organs that represent the supersensible perception
                                        necessary for objective consciousness to arise as a consequence of
                                        spiritual striving."

                                        Steve

                                        Bradford concludes;

                                        Well obviously we accept the nonsense presented by Stephen Hawkings
                                        and the big bang advocates and our delusional grasp of space and
                                        time and Einstein's concepts over Steiner's because the moral light
                                        that penetrated the first stirrings of the pineal gland, that must
                                        come about through thought, did their best to think through the
                                        concepts of light, space and time, to the point of unconsecrated,
                                        unconsecreated, who gives a shit, light, that pollutes and murders
                                        humanity now in depleted uranium.

                                        Depleted Uranium is the abstract arabistic result of disconnection
                                        between the moral warmth of the human I AM and the ability to
                                        penetrate light down to the bones until every cell, and all the
                                        higher bodies glow... Biblically, it knocked the disciples flat,
                                        this inner moral light, had such an impact at the Transfiguration,
                                        that it knocked the disciples flat to the ground.

                                        Did the glow of the Christ/Jesus physical, spiritual and core
                                        material form infect and poison the environment for centuries to
                                        come or did that light radiate a new healing power of consecrated
                                        light that is the core of the schooling of Spiritual Science?

                                        Well you may answer that any way you like. But note well, that how
                                        you answer that question is how you contribute to the poison that
                                        feeds your children's minds or contains the healing balm that will
                                        carry humanity upwards to Wednesday, Thursday, Friday...Which is
                                        that Mars/Mercury of the current Earth condition changes to Jupiter
                                        where the slag heap of your thoughts on light will fall to a
                                        squirming and sizzling grave if you have bet your soul on the
                                        physics, the fear, and the mushroom cloud, and every bullet fired
                                        made from decayed and unconsecrated light that poisons the womb and
                                        body with an infected immoral light contained in depleted uranium.

                                        And Venus and Vulcan...Vulcan where we become and enter the ranks of
                                        the gods and become as our elders were, the great creators. And
                                        along the path every logical system tells you that crystal form,
                                        plant forms, animal forms and human forms grow to Angel, Archangel
                                        and Archai...and every ounce of Spiritual Science can take you along
                                        each step of the way.

                                        That is what Thomas Aquinas was doing salvaging wisdom from the top
                                        down as opposed to the patch work, crap shoot that we thrust onto
                                        our children as their education because we as adults are such weak
                                        minded, spineless and ignorant cads. You may ask what is Love and
                                        you may ask doesn't love let us off the hook because we didn't know
                                        and were nice people basically. Let me give you a little touch of of
                                        Kama Loca now. You may have heard of such a silly title as
                                        apocalypse now, but let me give you an exating notion of Kama loca
                                        now. Kama Loca now is to say to you directly that your claims of
                                        dull, hiding behind ignorance of every damn stupid theory and
                                        letting your children swallow crap when the angels gave them to you,
                                        will also be on your tab. Your tab is what did you do when you
                                        understood that you were surrounded by People of the Lie?
                                      • carol
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Nov 3, 2006
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                                          <Well obviously we accept the nonsense presented by Stephen Hawkings
                                          and the big bang advocates and our delusional grasp of space and
                                          time and Einstein's concepts over Steiner's because the moral light
                                          that penetrated the first stirrings of the pineal gland, that must
                                          come about through thought, did their best to think through the
                                          concepts of light, space and time, to the point of unconsecrated,
                                          unconsecreated, who gives a shit, light, that pollutes and murders
                                          humanity now in depleted uranium.>

                                          Prose is obviously your individual tool, Bradford.

                                          You seem to make no allowance for the path of intellectual
                                          independance which Humanity needed to take in order to find itself
                                          ready to delve back down, through it's own efforts, into the depths
                                          of Spirit.

                                          Yet your anger remains justifyed since the stage in which we find
                                          ourselves reveals a majority of human beings blatantly deceived by
                                          the Maya imposed by dry 'concept and perception', as well as a
                                          majority of human beings unable to halt the immence destructive
                                          forces (which some human beings have made) very ready to obliterate
                                          so much earthly Life/Light.

                                          I suggest continuing to perfect your use of prose, yourself, and
                                          concentrate on describing your distaste, your alarm and your
                                          revelations in the most artful manner possible. I beleive there is a
                                          place where Humanity appreciates this.

                                          Carol.








                                          In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66" <holderlin66@...>
                                          wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Bradford brought;
                                          >
                                          > "It isn't that we build the physical world up in order to imagine
                                          > some god on the top of the heap... It is that Stephen Hawkings and
                                          > Darwin started from the bottom and couldn't and can't in Stephen
                                          > Hawkings case, find anything of actual spirit out of the mud pile
                                          > even if the mud pile becomes a pyramid of skulls three stories high
                                          > or comes about through a giant big bang where Space and Time
                                          > suddenly appear from nothing. How do we accept such nonsense?"
                                          >
                                          > Steve Hale brought:
                                          >
                                          > " At birth, the pineal gland is fully operative as a space-keeping
                                          > device indicative of the higher worlds that we know and experience
                                          > between death and rebirth. If, for some reason, we were able to
                                          > maintain the activity of the pineal gland in its extended form
                                          after
                                          > birth, we would never lose contact with the higher worlds and the
                                          > divine spiritual beings that we knew there. But, because our
                                          > function as human beings on earth is to evolve our Ego, according
                                          to
                                          > the laws of physics, i.e., the 'flat-plane concept', we must lose
                                          > the higher functionality of the pineal gland in favor of the time
                                          > concept.
                                          >
                                          > "Let's face it; without time, we would never find our feet. The
                                          > pineal gland is the symbol of our astral body, which is fully
                                          > formulated prior to our birth, for obvious reasons. Once born,
                                          > we must relinquish this knowledge in favor of the sense perception
                                          > that serves to accord the physical body and its striving for 3-
                                          > dimensional awareness. As a result, the part of the pineal gland
                                          > that descends into dormancy corresponds to that part that dwells
                                          > subsconsciously until higher knowledge seeks to bring it to
                                          > awakening.
                                          >
                                          > In other words, the pineal gland contains the astral body, divided
                                          > into two segments:
                                          >
                                          > 1) the five organs that represent the sense perception necessary
                                          for
                                          > the physical body's honing mechanism; and,
                                          >
                                          > 2) the seven organs that represent the supersensible perception
                                          > necessary for objective consciousness to arise as a consequence of
                                          > spiritual striving."
                                          >
                                          > Steve
                                          >
                                          > Bradford concludes;
                                          >
                                          > Well obviously we accept the nonsense presented by Stephen Hawkings
                                          > and the big bang advocates and our delusional grasp of space and
                                          > time and Einstein's concepts over Steiner's because the moral light
                                          > that penetrated the first stirrings of the pineal gland, that must
                                          > come about through thought, did their best to think through the
                                          > concepts of light, space and time, to the point of unconsecrated,
                                          > unconsecreated, who gives a shit, light, that pollutes and murders
                                          > humanity now in depleted uranium.
                                          >
                                          > Depleted Uranium is the abstract arabistic result of disconnection
                                          > between the moral warmth of the human I AM and the ability to
                                          > penetrate light down to the bones until every cell, and all the
                                          > higher bodies glow... Biblically, it knocked the disciples flat,
                                          > this inner moral light, had such an impact at the Transfiguration,
                                          > that it knocked the disciples flat to the ground.
                                          >
                                          > Did the glow of the Christ/Jesus physical, spiritual and core
                                          > material form infect and poison the environment for centuries to
                                          > come or did that light radiate a new healing power of consecrated
                                          > light that is the core of the schooling of Spiritual Science?
                                          >
                                          > Well you may answer that any way you like. But note well, that how
                                          > you answer that question is how you contribute to the poison that
                                          > feeds your children's minds or contains the healing balm that will
                                          > carry humanity upwards to Wednesday, Thursday, Friday...Which is
                                          > that Mars/Mercury of the current Earth condition changes to Jupiter
                                          > where the slag heap of your thoughts on light will fall to a
                                          > squirming and sizzling grave if you have bet your soul on the
                                          > physics, the fear, and the mushroom cloud, and every bullet fired
                                          > made from decayed and unconsecrated light that poisons the womb and
                                          > body with an infected immoral light contained in depleted uranium.
                                          >
                                          > And Venus and Vulcan...Vulcan where we become and enter the ranks
                                          of
                                          > the gods and become as our elders were, the great creators. And
                                          > along the path every logical system tells you that crystal form,
                                          > plant forms, animal forms and human forms grow to Angel, Archangel
                                          > and Archai...and every ounce of Spiritual Science can take you
                                          along
                                          > each step of the way.
                                          >
                                          > That is what Thomas Aquinas was doing salvaging wisdom from the top
                                          > down as opposed to the patch work, crap shoot that we thrust onto
                                          > our children as their education because we as adults are such weak
                                          > minded, spineless and ignorant cads. You may ask what is Love and
                                          > you may ask doesn't love let us off the hook because we didn't know
                                          > and were nice people basically. Let me give you a little touch of
                                          of
                                          > Kama Loca now. You may have heard of such a silly title as
                                          > apocalypse now, but let me give you an exating notion of Kama loca
                                          > now. Kama Loca now is to say to you directly that your claims of
                                          > dull, hiding behind ignorance of every damn stupid theory and
                                          > letting your children swallow crap when the angels gave them to
                                          you,
                                          > will also be on your tab. Your tab is what did you do when you
                                          > understood that you were surrounded by People of the Lie?
                                          >
                                        • holderlin66
                                          carol wrote: Yet your anger remains justifyed since the stage in which we find ourselves reveals a majority of human beings blatantly deceived by the Maya
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Nov 7, 2006
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                                            carol wrote:

                                            "Yet your anger remains justifyed since the stage in which we find
                                            ourselves reveals a majority of human beings blatantly deceived by
                                            the Maya imposed by dry 'concept and perception', as well as a
                                            majority of human beings unable to halt the immence destructive
                                            forces (which some human beings have made) very ready to obliterate
                                            so much earthly Life/Light."

                                            Bradford comments;

                                            Initiation Science allows us to imagine those who had wisdom
                                            centuries before we even opened our eyes. Ain't it grand?!! It is
                                            humbling. Sure, since we have a recipe book and outline of Occult
                                            Sciences and bridges to actual biology and human science, we can
                                            begin to put the puzzle together. Not without the great prodding of
                                            a Scientist like Dr. Steiner. So why should I be frustrated? No
                                            reason why I, me, little ole ding bat me should be frustrated.

                                            It obviously is an interesting form of astral springboard. Everyone,
                                            and that would be everyone takes their sweet ass time for anything
                                            to filter down to them. This goes triple for me. But it helps to
                                            imagine that and think through the experience that countless others
                                            already had a pretty good understanding of many of these forces
                                            long, long before I was mentally assisted, in my 'mentally
                                            challenged' condition, to stop at this arrogant juncture and finally
                                            absorb something rich.

                                            This crossroads is a curious springboard. When you understand what
                                            you are seeing...it is clear. All those who understood centuries
                                            before I did, went through a phase of attempting to scribble down
                                            such exercises in reordering our thinking but mostly their thinking
                                            and reorderin was our thinking and reordering. Futile as they-we
                                            are, there is this stage where we, as St. Paul was admonished
                                            clearly, "We Kick Against the Pricks"....Now that is the only time
                                            Christ, the Etheric Christ reveals that wily sense of humor that can
                                            carrry us through so that your wisdom ripens to maturity. Humor,
                                            Christ said, hey Saul/Paul, there certainly are a lot of pricks out
                                            there, hey buddy? I should know Paul, I walked slam-dunk into them
                                            bunch of pricks." See Christ had this cosmic, magnificent sense of
                                            humor that shuttles itself down the corridors of time.

                                            Since I am a weak and challenged thinker in an age where everything
                                            shouts at you, yet it manages to remain murky, the murkiness is a
                                            wonderful medium to fish out clarity and wrestle with just what was
                                            missed by murkiness. Purely, you understand, to keep my compass in
                                            an orientation where I can at least see my problems, Consecrated
                                            Light is our problem, against an actual comparison to physics. I am
                                            pleased to have wiggled my way forward, worm like, in order to look
                                            over the leaf I'm resting on and contemplate the butterfly of the
                                            vast, vast future of our being formed out of Consecrated Light.

                                            Further to see that the skeleton is outside, tells me a gret deal in
                                            relation to such an obscure and undiscovered territory as "His Bones
                                            were not Broken - or They did not break His bones"... this Spirit of
                                            Form, highly evolved elder human being took hold of the whole
                                            complex that was made from FOUR WORLDS, Saturn, Sun, Moon, Earth,
                                            Physical, etheric, astral I AM, took hold of FOUR COMPLETE WORLDS,
                                            (native americans have to respect that) and like a mighty puppet
                                            master and master of matter and the atomic table...well, put it this
                                            way.... I love understanding, thanks to Tom M. and other fair
                                            students of spiritual science, a link to Consecrated and
                                            Unconsecrated Light, a bridge, that requires and verifies the great
                                            moral foundations of each an every human I AM.

                                            How to approach with understanding this thinking gap, where
                                            unconsecrated education becomes consecrated education....is a
                                            springboard from the obvious murky to the solid clarity that cannot
                                            be taken from you.

                                            So there is Ignorance, stupidity, and bless us all I consider myself
                                            a dunce. Take Giordano Bruno, who I would never have taken an
                                            interest in, had it not been for the sympathy Steiner offered him as
                                            a scientist. Bruno was really one of dawning stars of the
                                            Consciousness Soul. And there is something in the light dawning like
                                            Descarte, the pineal gland starts to stir into thinking, so that in
                                            thinking, we use the brain for the perception of the invisible, in
                                            other words we connect percept and concept in invisible and under
                                            the light of the moral forces of inwardly consecrated humanity we
                                            begin work in the invisible.

                                            Or thinking is not a revelation but just some abstract arabistic
                                            thought spin and it doesn't matter how percept and concept gets
                                            connected as long as the corporation makes a profit. You see the
                                            difference between what Thomas Aquinas was fighting for and martyrs
                                            like Bruno were murdered for? One has to admire the murkiness of the
                                            region where we have landed with our dim bulbs. The murkiness stirs
                                            it into life and gradually, Grail like, becomes clearer. Just listen
                                            to this.

                                            http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/john_kessler/giordano_brun
                                            o.html

                                            "Bruno was interested in the nature of ideas. Although the name was
                                            not yet invented it will be perfectly proper to dub Bruno as an
                                            epistemologist, or as a pioneer Semanticist. He takes fresh stock of
                                            the human mind."

                                            "In the year 1582, at the age of 34 he wrote a play Il Candelajo,
                                            The Chandler. He thinks as a candle-maker who works with tallow and
                                            grease and then has to go out and vend his wares with shouting and
                                            ballyhoo:

                                            "Behold in the candle borne by this Chandler, to whom I give birth,
                                            that which shall clarify certain shadows of ideas ... I need not
                                            instruct you of my belief. Time gives all and takes all away;
                                            everything changes but nothing perishes. One only is immutable,
                                            eternal and ever endures, one and the same with itself. With this
                                            philosophy my spirit grows, my mind expands. Whereof, however
                                            obscure the night may be, I await the daybreak, and they who dwell
                                            in day look for night ... Rejoice therefore, and keep whole, if you
                                            can, and return love for love."

                                            "...superstition. This "ass," says Bruno, is to be found everywhere,
                                            not only in the church but in courts of law and even in colleges. In
                                            his book The Expulsion of the 'Triumphant Beast' he flays the
                                            pedantries he finds in Catholic and Protestant cultures. In yet
                                            another book The Threefold Leas and Measure of the Three Speculative
                                            Sciences and the Principle of Many Practical Arts, we find a
                                            discussion on a theme which was to be handled in a later century by
                                            the French philosopher Descartes. The book was written five years
                                            before Descartes was born and in it he says: "Who so itcheth to
                                            Philosophy must set to work by putting all things to the doubt."

                                            "After two years in the custody of the Inquisitor he was taken on
                                            February ninth to the palace of the Grand Inquisitor to hear his
                                            sentence on bended knee, before the expert assessors and the
                                            Governor of the City.

                                            "Bruno answered the sentence of death by fire with the
                                            threatening: "Perhaps you, my judges, pronounce this sentence
                                            against me with greater fear than I receive it." He was given eight
                                            more clays to see whether he would repent. But it was no use. He was
                                            taken to the stake and as he was dying a crucifix was presented to
                                            him, but he pushed it away with fierce scorn."
                                          • Steve Hale
                                            ... wrote: ... thinking ... can ... out ... It was actually the oxen that were kicking against the slivers of wood from the sideboards
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Nov 7, 2006
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                                              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                              <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                                              <snip>
                                              > This crossroads is a curious springboard. When you understand what
                                              > you are seeing...it is clear. All those who understood centuries
                                              > before I did, went through a phase of attempting to scribble down
                                              > such exercises in reordering our thinking but mostly their
                                              thinking
                                              > and reorderin was our thinking and reordering. Futile as they-we
                                              > are, there is this stage where we, as St. Paul was admonished
                                              > clearly, "We Kick Against the Pricks"....Now that is the only time
                                              > Christ, the Etheric Christ reveals that wily sense of humor that
                                              can
                                              > carrry us through so that your wisdom ripens to maturity. Humor,
                                              > Christ said, hey Saul/Paul, there certainly are a lot of pricks
                                              out
                                              > there, hey buddy? I should know Paul, I walked slam-dunk into them
                                              > bunch of pricks." See Christ had this cosmic, magnificent sense of
                                              > humor that shuttles itself down the corridors of time.

                                              It was actually the oxen that were kicking against the slivers of
                                              wood from the sideboards of the oxcart that Saul used to carry his
                                              belongings along the road to Damascus that compelled Christ to ask
                                              Saul: "Why do you gird your oxen?" You see, oxen don't usually kick
                                              out unless they are vexed by such an unnecessary nuisance as a
                                              sideboard containing slivers. In other words, oxen know their
                                              function as burden-carriers; why the further reduction of freedom?

                                              Interestingly, the man who was to be called Peter experienced just
                                              such an event on the shore of the Sea of Tiberius, when after
                                              answering three questions from the Christ about Love, he was
                                              told: "When you were young you girded yourself and walked your own
                                              way".

                                              It was the start of an integral relationship between these two:
                                              Peter and Paul.

                                              Steve
                                            • vasilisa606
                                              ... My paternal grandfather was half English and half Native American and I inherited some really colorful sayings from him. One of my favorites, I think a
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Nov 8, 2006
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                                                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                                                wrote:

                                                > It was actually the oxen that were kicking against the slivers of
                                                > wood from the sideboards of the oxcart that Saul used to carry his
                                                > belongings along the road to Damascus that compelled Christ to ask
                                                > Saul: "Why do you gird your oxen?" You see, oxen don't usually kick
                                                > out unless they are vexed by such an unnecessary nuisance as a
                                                > sideboard containing slivers. In other words, oxen know their
                                                > function as burden-carriers; why the further reduction of freedom?

                                                My paternal grandfather was half English and half Native American and I
                                                inherited some really colorful sayings from him. One of my favorites, I
                                                think a colloquialism from New Jersey where he grew up is, "It all
                                                depends on whose ox is being gored."
                                              • holderlin66
                                                Holderlin brought about Giordano Bruno: Bruno answered the sentence of death by fire with the threatening: Perhaps you, my judges, pronounce this sentence
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Nov 8, 2006
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                                                  Holderlin brought about Giordano Bruno:

                                                  "Bruno answered the sentence of death by fire with the
                                                  threatening: "Perhaps you, my judges, pronounce this sentence
                                                  against me with greater fear than I receive it." He was given eight
                                                  more clays to see whether he would repent. But it was no use. He was
                                                  taken to the stake and as he was dying a crucifix was presented to
                                                  him, but he pushed it away with fierce scorn."

                                                  Bradford comments;

                                                  "...as he was dying a crucifix was presented to him, but he pushed
                                                  it away with fierce scorn."

                                                  Here the very people who were the deluded minds that tortured him
                                                  and judged his science as in error and their hidden political agenda
                                                  of the lie, the spin, offered Bruno a symbol, the symbol they hid
                                                  behind like cowards. Hypocrisy has no better sample of no matter how
                                                  kind the face, you know the face, while Bruno is tortured or Joan of
                                                  Arc is burnt, some sympathetic face comes daringly out of the crowd
                                                  and offers you a crucifix so that you can be close to Christ. I
                                                  don't know who I would despise more. The crowd who did nothing while
                                                  and now comes to my rescue when I am being murdered or the
                                                  unconsecrated pocket of light embodied by those who torture me.

                                                  And that is where the result of thinking takes us. To moths of
                                                  unconsecrated light, who take you again and again, like moths
                                                  banging into a candle or bug zapper, again and again, the
                                                  unconsecrated moth dust, is attracted by false light. Don't think
                                                  for a second I make this comparison foolishly. You would be a fool
                                                  to think thus. Where as look you to the Butterfly and its relation
                                                  to sun, sugar, moral substance of nature, blossom and the organic
                                                  laws and unfolding trigger factors of when certain blossoms open and
                                                  when certain butterflies arise. Light for Light and Unconsecrated
                                                  Light of the moth vs the Consecrated dust of the butterfly with its
                                                  skeleton turned inside out....and representing each persons higher
                                                  Christ Spirit Man potential.

                                                  I might tatoo crucifix all over my ass and still be an asshole.
                                                  Christ certainly will not betray us, even though we betray Him a
                                                  million, million times. Christ has the office of the Consecrated
                                                  Light of the cosmic I AM. Bruno was rightly within that I AM
                                                  evolution of the dawning Consciousness Soul. He was rightly ahead of
                                                  his time. Now does this weary hypocrisy and betrayal ever end? No.
                                                  GWB can meet every Monday he wants with a minister, a preacher and
                                                  bow his head in prayer, but from a human standpoint GWB betrays our
                                                  humanity daily.

                                                  GWB and Cheney might piss on the Koran and torture souls in order,
                                                  as we in spiritual science know full well the reason why. They
                                                  torture at this significant time in history, when the etheric body
                                                  is loosening itself and waking up, torture as they did in the past
                                                  with the Templars, GWB and Cheney do this now so that with Near
                                                  Death Experiences, etheric visions of headlines of the future are
                                                  ripped from the throats of those that they torture when their human,
                                                  I say, HUMAN, etheric bodies are separated for an instant, a minute
                                                  or more. These tortured gurgles may seem like nothing or maybe
                                                  confess to anything to end the pain, but somewhere in the middle
                                                  this system, Cheney and Bush had utterly betrayed the mission of
                                                  humanity. That is what we rightly call a crime against humanity. A
                                                  crime anyway you want to look at it. If you are deluded and you
                                                  don't think it is a crime you are still a sick, deluded fool.

                                                  But Bruno is offered the sign of the crucifix to save him while the
                                                  flames are burning off his flesh. The crucifix. What does the
                                                  crucifix mean to a human being who has discovered that in his
                                                  thought there is this eternal doorway to Truth? Once you unlock the
                                                  mystery that Steiner codes into the Philosophy of Freedom as well,
                                                  this pineal gland that has disappeared inside the brain, that
                                                  Descartes was so curious about, we find that it is a light receptor.

                                                  Now from Steve Hale's masterful outline of the reasons for Ahriman's
                                                  foundational management and Lucifer's management of Light within the
                                                  organism...that both matter, From Our Moon's Holy Standpoint, the
                                                  human physical body, Light and the forces of gestation and
                                                  reproduction that make the material little models of things we see
                                                  in nature, so accurate, even us, as light bearers....That all three,
                                                  Lucifer, Ahriman and the Asuras are woven into the matrix to be the
                                                  push me pull me forces so that when, when in heaven's name, when
                                                  will we grasp clearly what Steve Hale put so well and Steiner
                                                  brought so clearly, when Sun separated, when moon separated and the
                                                  intimate integration and fit of the eclipse in the heavens to the
                                                  unconsecrated detonations on earth of the physics results of nuclear
                                                  bombs, trails light into the soul and mind of Man.

                                                  Consecrated Light has indeed been evolved directly from the four
                                                  worlds and evolved into the four bodies carried, Saturn, Sun, Moon
                                                  and Earth, and Physical body, etheric body, astral body and I AM...
                                                  and following how the light was immersed into matter and swallowed
                                                  up to become the Word Bearing Human....means that the whole process
                                                  of consecrated light has been and is working on bringing our little
                                                  dull brains into line with our cosmic mission.

                                                  We are Humans and we know the difference between the betryal and
                                                  hypocrisy of our humanity and the call to consecrated light. We know
                                                  the difference in our Souls between Unconsecrated results of Light
                                                  within the the thought framework of physics and the Consecrated
                                                  results of light within the Transfiguration. If we don't know this
                                                  yet, we better get down to it and get over the hump of our refusals
                                                  to understand moral light against immoral and unconsecrated light.

                                                  And Steve Hale brought up kicking against the pricks as oxen against
                                                  the sides of unsanded splintering boards. Well certainly Giordano
                                                  Bruno, Joan of Arc and Christ as well as Peter, were placed in the
                                                  locks or in the stocks and the thorns or prick or splinters were
                                                  hard, hard nails....Christ and the Crucifix...is only there for
                                                  those who have no thought, no solid basis of grasping yet in
                                                  cognitive clarity that the Body, Soul and Spirit cohesion and the
                                                  divine aspects of the human being are to be defended not betrayed.

                                                  Hypocrites have no follow up when it comes to what their children
                                                  are educated in. They throw their children to the wolves and at home
                                                  they devour and indulge in corporate materialism with the wonderful
                                                  edge that materialism out proves the spiritual basis of anything.
                                                  That goodness is mere lip service and bowing your head in prayer or
                                                  having a tatoo on your body that shows a black gnarled and thorny
                                                  cross, because you are cute and your body is cute, remains mere
                                                  superfical tags on baggage traveling through customs on earth. Our
                                                  bodies are not steamer trunks to stamp shit on.

                                                  We are very, very cute hypocrites who betray our humanity and in the
                                                  last ditch effort, where not only the tortured today, but the
                                                  tortured in the past, had some well meaning fool run up and handed
                                                  someone a crucifix to save his soul I'm not sure who I would dispise
                                                  more. The crucifix is very easily a symbol for the denial and
                                                  hypocrisy of the soul and spirit. Especially if, as a human spirit,
                                                  you have evolved to the point where each person is understood as a
                                                  spiritual being and that Christ is in the office of Consecrated
                                                  Light and the development of I AM's everywhere.
                                                • Steve Hale
                                                  ... was ... In much the same way, Stephen, lead deacon of the seven deacons appointed by the apostles, roared in righteous indignation, God does not live in a
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Nov 8, 2006
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                                                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                                    <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Holderlin brought about Giordano Bruno:
                                                    >
                                                    > "Bruno answered the sentence of death by fire with the
                                                    > threatening: "Perhaps you, my judges, pronounce this sentence
                                                    > against me with greater fear than I receive it." He was given eight
                                                    > more clays to see whether he would repent. But it was no use. He
                                                    was
                                                    > taken to the stake and as he was dying a crucifix was presented to
                                                    > him, but he pushed it away with fierce scorn."
                                                    >
                                                    > Bradford comments;
                                                    >
                                                    > "...as he was dying a crucifix was presented to him, but he pushed
                                                    > it away with fierce scorn."

                                                    In much the same way, Stephen, lead deacon of the seven deacons
                                                    appointed by the apostles, roared in righteous indignation, "God
                                                    does not live in a house built with human hands!", when brought
                                                    before the Sanhedrin on charges of secretly teaching the principles
                                                    of Christianity to the disapora widows of the Greek community
                                                    there. And Saul watched as the order to stone Stephen to death was
                                                    declared, and held their cloaks while they did so. And it was he
                                                    who also dragged and buried the body of Stephen, who was an initiate
                                                    of the Apostles of Christ.

                                                    It is said that Stephen's glorious oration against the machine that
                                                    constituted the Sanhedrin caused him to be transformed into a being
                                                    of transfiguring light; the same pentecostal light that had
                                                    descended on the twelve disciples in the upper room of Joseph of
                                                    Arimethea a few years before. But this only served to further
                                                    enrage the members of the Sanhedrin, and the order to stone for
                                                    blasphemy was decreed. But Saul was extraordinarily moved by it
                                                    all, as he witnessed this and also his own role in carrying out the
                                                    sentence. It was to be the founding event that would lead to his
                                                    own transformation on the road where his beast of burden would kick
                                                    out against the pricks.

                                                    Ironically, it would be he who would soon experience the "whince of
                                                    the licks" against his own flesh as the condemned lying Jew traitor
                                                    of the Hebrew culture; a crazy loon who would give it all up in
                                                    order to be a martyr of early Christendom. For Judaism, it could
                                                    only be further proof of the lunacy and lie of Christianity, first
                                                    declared so when Jesus had felt the pain of those nails.

                                                    Steve
                                                  • prismah44
                                                    Bradford wrote: Hypocrisy has no better sample of no matter how kind the face, you know the face, while Bruno is tortured or Joan of Arc is burnt, some
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Nov 8, 2006
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                                                      Bradford wrote:
                                                      Hypocrisy has no better sample of no matter how kind the face, you
                                                      know the face, while Bruno is tortured or Joan of Arc is burnt, some
                                                      sympathetic face comes daringly out of the crowd and offers you a
                                                      crucifix so that you can be close to Christ. I don't know who I
                                                      would despise more. The crowd who did nothing while
                                                      and now comes to my rescue when I am being murdered or the
                                                      unconsecrated pocket of light embodied by those who torture me.

                                                      Suzanne's thoughts:

                                                      It's been written by some that at the height of physical pain, the
                                                      body goes into a type of protective mode and the nervous system
                                                      shuts down... and/or the soul departs before extreme pain is felt.
                                                      But in the case of Joan of Arc, agonizing emotions must surely have
                                                      ran through her body like wildfire through dry straw even before the
                                                      stake was lit. She had been brutally interrogated, dehumanized,
                                                      betrayed, unjustly imprisoned under charges of witchcraft and
                                                      heresy, and sentenced to die a death she feared with all her heart
                                                      and soul. One can only imagine how it must have been like in those
                                                      days to be locked and guarded by beastly men, in enclosed quarters
                                                      so filthy that bugs and rodents shared what undoubtedly must have
                                                      been her humid, stench-filled, dust-covered dark concrete cell. Not
                                                      to mention the despair and loneliness she had to have endured during
                                                      her months of imprisonment; that is, except for the sound of her
                                                      voices and the sight of her visions.

                                                      We've already briefly touched on the topic of how emotions are
                                                      energy and how they become stored in the spiritual centers of the
                                                      endocrine system only to find expression in future lives. Was the
                                                      Maid of Orleans immune in future lives to the psychoneurological
                                                      consequences of negative emotions such as: fear, anger, anxiety,
                                                      doubt, despair and depression because she was accorded grace to go
                                                      through the fiery ordeal? If not, one can imagine what her triggers
                                                      would be today if she incarnated again? If yes, then she was able in
                                                      that life to transmute all those negative feelings and lift herself
                                                      up – and others – for a higher cause.

                                                      Hunters know that in order to keep meat tender, it is imperative
                                                      that a panicked prey does not remain afraid for too long because it
                                                      floods its body with adrenaline which hardens the flesh. The
                                                      question then remains, did Joan during her mission, imprisonment,
                                                      trial and cruel death, experience a hormonal flood of emotions whose
                                                      impulses could have solidified in her mental body only to manifest
                                                      again in some ways in future lives? I think this is the case with
                                                      most of us as we remain consciously unaware of details associated
                                                      with subconscious post traumatic stress triggers unless illuminated
                                                      by the Spirit of Truth..."But the Comforter, which is the Holy
                                                      Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name he shall teach you all
                                                      things, and bring all things to your remembrance..." (Jn. 14:26)

                                                      Thoughts of Jesus Christ on the Cross who, despite the unimaginable
                                                      pain He endured, at one point lifted his head to look through the
                                                      condemning crowd and out of pity asked GOD to forgive his oppressors
                                                      because they knew not what they were doing. Like a lamb He was
                                                      slaughtered and in the process transmuted and redeemed negative
                                                      impulses of energy in accordance with GOD's plan of salvation. And
                                                      as she stood tied to the stake, transcripts tell us that Joan asked
                                                      that a mass be said for her salvation and begged for prayers (but
                                                      then...transcripts have been altered under various circumstances to
                                                      protect the guilty oppressors.)

                                                      "Rouen! Rouen! Must I die here? Ah, Rouen, I fear you will have to
                                                      suffer for my death!"

                                                      "I ask you priests of God, to please say a Mass for my soul's
                                                      salvation. I beg all of you standing here to forgive me the harm
                                                      that I may have done you. Please pray for me."

                                                      As soon as Joan noticed that the fire had been lit she urgently
                                                      warned Brother Martin: "Good Brother Martin, I thank you for
                                                      comforting me, but you must leave this place.., now."

                                                      "My Voices did come from God and everything that I have done was by
                                                      God's order."

                                                      "Hold the crucifix up before my eyes so I may see it until I die."
                                                      "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!"

                                                      http://www.stjoan-center.com/Trials/

                                                      http://www.stjoan-center.com/quotable

                                                      It does not appear that the crucifix hovering through the flames was
                                                      the ultimate act of hypocrisy...that may well have happened when
                                                      Charles failed to come to her aid when she needed him the most, and
                                                      when she needed him the least he appealed to church authorities to
                                                      canonize her a Saint after her death. Lucky for Charles that Joan
                                                      appears to be a very forgiving soul.

                                                      http://www.french-at-a-
                                                      touch.com/French_History/saint_joan_of_arc_iii.htm

                                                      Only thoughts,
                                                      Blessings,
                                                      Suzanne
                                                    • Steve Hale
                                                      One of the things that spiritual-scientific research is able to tell us is that Joan of Arc was born bearing the Christ Impulse. It was to be her task to
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Nov 8, 2006
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                                                        One of the things that spiritual-scientific research is able to tell
                                                        us is that Joan of Arc was born bearing the Christ Impulse. It was
                                                        to be her task to provide the actual arc of electrical light
                                                        conductance, of the consecrated kind, that would see that the fifth
                                                        cultural epoch came over from the gulf created when The Knights
                                                        Templar were abolished in 1307, and Jacque DeMolay was immolated on
                                                        that fateful day in March of 1314. Thus, she was born on January 6,
                                                        1412, bearing the Christ Impulse at birth, and would be the spark of
                                                        consecrated light that would bridge the gulf the very next year;
                                                        1413. 1314/1413 means something very important here, as she would
                                                        go on to experience the same death as DeMolay at the age of
                                                        nineteen, but only after single-handedly steering the French to
                                                        victory over the British in the Hundred Years War. Of course, she
                                                        was kidnapped and inquisitioned by the British papacy, but the tide
                                                        had already turned, and victory assured with her death in 1431.

                                                        Here's an excerpt from Steiner's Lecture: Christ In Relation to
                                                        Lucifer and Ahriman, courtesy of the RS E-Library and Archive.

                                                        "This time of year has been most favorable in those epochs when
                                                        human beings were not as advanced as they are in our time. Now it is
                                                        no longer possible for the Christ impulse to penetrate the souls of
                                                        men in this way, as if by natural initiation. Nowadays man must make
                                                        a conscious effort and climb to initiation in a way similar to that
                                                        achieved through the instructions given in my book Knowledge of the
                                                        Higher Worlds. We are living in an age when natural initiations are
                                                        becoming increasingly rare and will eventually disappear. Yet one
                                                        initiation that could still essentially be called a natural
                                                        initiation took place when the Christ impulse worked itself into the
                                                        soul of the simple country girl, The Maid of Orleans. It was she who
                                                        caused the victory of the French over the English. Again, not the
                                                        human mind nor the talents of military leaders were decisive factors
                                                        in changing the map of Europe so magnificently, but rather the
                                                        Christ impulse working itself into the subconscious of the Maid of
                                                        Orleans and inspiring her to radiate its presence in all of history.

                                                        We would now have to examine whether something similar could have
                                                        occurred in the Maid of Orleans by way of natural initiation and ask
                                                        whether her soul was inspired in the nights from the 25th day of
                                                        December to the 6th of January. From her biography it seems
                                                        difficult to demonstrate that she was even once in a sleep-like
                                                        state during the twelve or thirteen special days when the Christ
                                                        impulse could have entered her soul, inspiring her to act as its
                                                        human shell on the battle grounds of France. Yet, that is precisely
                                                        what happened. There is a time when the karma of a particular
                                                        individual can facilitate such a sleep-like state in a human being.
                                                        During the last few days prior to a person's birth he lives in the
                                                        mother's womb in a dreaming, sleep-like state. He has not yet
                                                        perceived with his senses what is happening in the world outside. If
                                                        by virtue of his karma a person were especially suited to receive
                                                        the Christ impulse during these last few days in the womb, then
                                                        these days could also be days of natural initiation. Strengthened by
                                                        and saturated with the Christ impulse, such a person would have to
                                                        be born on the sixth day of January. Joan of Arc was born on that
                                                        day. It is her special mystery that she was born on the 6th day of
                                                        January and had spent the time from Christmas to the day of Epiphany
                                                        in a peculiar sleep-like state in the womb of her mother where she
                                                        received her natural initiation. Now consider the profound
                                                        connections beyond the external developments that we are accustomed
                                                        to call history. As a rule, the external events that are
                                                        reconstructed from historical documents are of the least
                                                        significance. What is of decisive historical significance is the
                                                        plain date in our calendar indicating that Joan of Arc was sent into
                                                        this world on the 6th day of January. Thus, supernatural forces
                                                        become active in the sentient world and we must read the occult
                                                        signs that present this fact to us. They tell us that the Christ
                                                        impulse had already streamed into the Maid of Orleans before her
                                                        physical birth, as if by way of natural initiation. "

                                                        Regards,

                                                        Steve



                                                        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "prismah44" <prismah44@...>
                                                        wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Bradford wrote:
                                                        > Hypocrisy has no better sample of no matter how kind the face, you
                                                        > know the face, while Bruno is tortured or Joan of Arc is burnt,
                                                        some
                                                        > sympathetic face comes daringly out of the crowd and offers you a
                                                        > crucifix so that you can be close to Christ. I don't know who I
                                                        > would despise more. The crowd who did nothing while
                                                        > and now comes to my rescue when I am being murdered or the
                                                        > unconsecrated pocket of light embodied by those who torture me.
                                                        >
                                                        > Suzanne's thoughts:
                                                        >
                                                        > It's been written by some that at the height of physical pain, the
                                                        > body goes into a type of protective mode and the nervous system
                                                        > shuts down... and/or the soul departs before extreme pain is felt.
                                                        > But in the case of Joan of Arc, agonizing emotions must surely
                                                        have
                                                        > ran through her body like wildfire through dry straw even before
                                                        the
                                                        > stake was lit. She had been brutally interrogated, dehumanized,
                                                        > betrayed, unjustly imprisoned under charges of witchcraft and
                                                        > heresy, and sentenced to die a death she feared with all her heart
                                                        > and soul. One can only imagine how it must have been like in those
                                                        > days to be locked and guarded by beastly men, in enclosed quarters
                                                        > so filthy that bugs and rodents shared what undoubtedly must have
                                                        > been her humid, stench-filled, dust-covered dark concrete cell.
                                                        Not
                                                        > to mention the despair and loneliness she had to have endured
                                                        during
                                                        > her months of imprisonment; that is, except for the sound of her
                                                        > voices and the sight of her visions.
                                                        >
                                                        > We've already briefly touched on the topic of how emotions are
                                                        > energy and how they become stored in the spiritual centers of the
                                                        > endocrine system only to find expression in future lives. Was the
                                                        > Maid of Orleans immune in future lives to the psychoneurological
                                                        > consequences of negative emotions such as: fear, anger, anxiety,
                                                        > doubt, despair and depression because she was accorded grace to go
                                                        > through the fiery ordeal? If not, one can imagine what her
                                                        triggers
                                                        > would be today if she incarnated again? If yes, then she was able
                                                        in
                                                        > that life to transmute all those negative feelings and lift
                                                        herself
                                                        > up – and others – for a higher cause.
                                                        >
                                                        > Hunters know that in order to keep meat tender, it is imperative
                                                        > that a panicked prey does not remain afraid for too long because
                                                        it
                                                        > floods its body with adrenaline which hardens the flesh. The
                                                        > question then remains, did Joan during her mission, imprisonment,
                                                        > trial and cruel death, experience a hormonal flood of emotions
                                                        whose
                                                        > impulses could have solidified in her mental body only to manifest
                                                        > again in some ways in future lives? I think this is the case with
                                                        > most of us as we remain consciously unaware of details associated
                                                        > with subconscious post traumatic stress triggers unless
                                                        illuminated
                                                        > by the Spirit of Truth..."But the Comforter, which is the Holy
                                                        > Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name he shall teach you all
                                                        > things, and bring all things to your remembrance..." (Jn. 14:26)
                                                        >
                                                        > Thoughts of Jesus Christ on the Cross who, despite the
                                                        unimaginable
                                                        > pain He endured, at one point lifted his head to look through the
                                                        > condemning crowd and out of pity asked GOD to forgive his
                                                        oppressors
                                                        > because they knew not what they were doing. Like a lamb He was
                                                        > slaughtered and in the process transmuted and redeemed negative
                                                        > impulses of energy in accordance with GOD's plan of salvation.
                                                        And
                                                        > as she stood tied to the stake, transcripts tell us that Joan
                                                        asked
                                                        > that a mass be said for her salvation and begged for prayers (but
                                                        > then...transcripts have been altered under various circumstances
                                                        to
                                                        > protect the guilty oppressors.)
                                                        >
                                                        > "Rouen! Rouen! Must I die here? Ah, Rouen, I fear you will have to
                                                        > suffer for my death!"
                                                        >
                                                        > "I ask you priests of God, to please say a Mass for my soul's
                                                        > salvation. I beg all of you standing here to forgive me the harm
                                                        > that I may have done you. Please pray for me."
                                                        >
                                                        > As soon as Joan noticed that the fire had been lit she urgently
                                                        > warned Brother Martin: "Good Brother Martin, I thank you for
                                                        > comforting me, but you must leave this place.., now."
                                                        >
                                                        > "My Voices did come from God and everything that I have done was
                                                        by
                                                        > God's order."
                                                        >
                                                        > "Hold the crucifix up before my eyes so I may see it until I die."
                                                        > "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!"
                                                        >
                                                        > http://www.stjoan-center.com/Trials/
                                                        >
                                                        > http://www.stjoan-center.com/quotable
                                                        >
                                                        > It does not appear that the crucifix hovering through the flames
                                                        was
                                                        > the ultimate act of hypocrisy...that may well have happened when
                                                        > Charles failed to come to her aid when she needed him the most,
                                                        and
                                                        > when she needed him the least he appealed to church authorities to
                                                        > canonize her a Saint after her death. Lucky for Charles that Joan
                                                        > appears to be a very forgiving soul.
                                                        >
                                                        > http://www.french-at-a-
                                                        > touch.com/French_History/saint_joan_of_arc_iii.htm
                                                        >
                                                        > Only thoughts,
                                                        > Blessings,
                                                        > Suzanne
                                                        >
                                                      • Steve Hale
                                                        ... was ... Before Bruno was staked, preceded by the Maid of Orleans, and then by the last Grand Master of the Templars, DeMolay, all of whom represent a
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Nov 8, 2006
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                                                          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                                          <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > Holderlin brought about Giordano Bruno:
                                                          >
                                                          > "Bruno answered the sentence of death by fire with the
                                                          > threatening: "Perhaps you, my judges, pronounce this sentence
                                                          > against me with greater fear than I receive it." He was given eight
                                                          > more clays to see whether he would repent. But it was no use. He
                                                          was
                                                          > taken to the stake and as he was dying a crucifix was presented to
                                                          > him, but he pushed it away with fierce scorn."
                                                          >
                                                          > Bradford comments;
                                                          >
                                                          > "...as he was dying a crucifix was presented to him, but he pushed
                                                          > it away with fierce scorn."

                                                          Before Bruno was staked, preceded by the Maid of Orleans, and then
                                                          by the last Grand Master of the Templars, DeMolay, all of whom
                                                          represent a sacrificial progression in spiritual-evolutionary
                                                          history, we can find a quite seminal occasion wherein a very decent
                                                          man was brought up on charges of corrupting young minds and also not
                                                          observing the so-called "religious novelties" of his time; tsk tsk.
                                                          Well, this would be Socrates, who could be considered to be the
                                                          grand master of the Greek era of philosophical deduction.

                                                          As such, he was brought before the city council of Athens with the
                                                          aforesaid charges, and sentenced to pay 30 mina as a fine, which was
                                                          a respectable amount but not overwhelming. Well, guess what?
                                                          Instead of amicably quiescing and paying the fine, he told them
                                                          something entirely unexpected. He told them that they should be the
                                                          ones to pay the fine on his behalf! And why? Because he had been a
                                                          faithful servant of Athenian society his whole life, which the
                                                          historical record does, in fact, verify.

                                                          Unfortunately, much in the same way that Stephen invoked the wrath
                                                          of the Sanhedrin, Socrates impunity got his sentence upgraded to
                                                          death, and so it was that he drank the hemlock once the sacred ship
                                                          returned to port.

                                                          Socrates greatness concerns the fact that he got the young minds to
                                                          look inwardly for the very first time, in anticipation of something
                                                          very great coming down the road.

                                                          Steve
                                                        • prismah44
                                                          One of the things that spiritual-scientific research is able to tell us is that Joan of Arc was born bearing the Christ Impulse. It was to be her task to
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Nov 9, 2006
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                                                            One of the things that spiritual-scientific research is able to tell
                                                            us is that Joan of Arc was born bearing the Christ Impulse. It was
                                                            to be her task to provide the actual arc of electrical light
                                                            conductance, of the consecrated kind,

                                                            Hi Steve,

                                                            Thanks for including Rudolph's lecture on the topic.

                                                            That she was born with the Christ impulse while still in the womb and
                                                            born January 6 means that she was also preconditioned to particular
                                                            planetary/zodiacal influences. It would be interestng to study Joan's
                                                            astrological chart under the careful scrutiny of "spiritual science"
                                                            to avoid bogus interpretations. Is there such a chart available?
                                                            Perhaps also to study the date (and time) of her death as recorded in
                                                            transcripts would reveal a more complete composite of her astral
                                                            attributes which could precondition her personality for future
                                                            incarnations. Everything is recorded in the Akashic records, and
                                                            perhaps these two charts could provide some missing elements of Joan's
                                                            personality. (Keeping in mind though that planetary influences can be
                                                            overcome by the force of the will alone; especially when it is aligned
                                                            with the Christ Spirit.)

                                                            Have a good day,
                                                            Suzanne
                                                          • carol
                                                            Lee said: Knowledge and erudition is fine; and this is a path of knowledge but without heart and warmth, its like bamboo swaying in the wind. The following
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Nov 19, 2006
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                                                              Lee said: Knowledge and erudition is fine; and this is a path of
                                                              knowledge but without heart and warmth, its like bamboo swaying in
                                                              the wind.

                                                              The following relates a direct witness of how the issue raised by
                                                              Lee's statement was delt with, at the time when Steiner lived among
                                                              his followers. I found it on the page of a book review.
                                                              http://www.doyletics.com/arj/reminisc.htm

                                                              Book Review by Bobby Matherne

                                                              Reminiscences of Rudolf Steiner
                                                              by Andrei Belyi, Margarita Voloschin & Assya Turgenieff

                                                              This next piece of advice is one that I whole-heartedly agree with.
                                                              And I find Belyi's statement of the case very compelling and would
                                                              like to share it with you. "There is too much of speaking about the
                                                              Spirit" and not enough of the "Speaking with the Spirit." That would
                                                              be my synopsis of his point. To speak about the Spirit is to deaden
                                                              the Spirit. The Spirit is pure process and to laden it with content is
                                                              to leaden it, to fill it with materialism. In the next passage, I
                                                              would replace the adverb "concretely" with "directly" so that the
                                                              point is driven home without a mixed metaphor that we must speak in
                                                              the Spirit at all times if we would communicate the Spirit.

                                                              "[page 49] Rudolf Steiner has often repeated: we speak about the
                                                              spiritual path, we speak about the spirit; we speak continually about,
                                                              about and about something. This about is too little. We must attempt
                                                              to communicate the spirit concretely. Speaking with spiritual ability
                                                              about the spirit only drives the spirit out and is a detour to
                                                              materialism. He himself spoke otherwise. And entirely otherwise when
                                                              he spoke about the Christ."

                                                              And entirely otherwise when he spoke through his heart about the Jesus
                                                              Child in the manger.

                                                              "[page 50] With what a clear, loving smile he spoke of the Jesus Child
                                                              who, in the power of his helplesLsness, lay in the manger upon which
                                                              Ahriman's sword was shattered. -- Then he was entirely heart. . . ."

                                                              All the best, Carol.






                                                              In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Lee A." <jlaoak@...> wrote:
                                                              >
                                                              > Very insightful historical overview and intersecting of the
                                                              inspiration cycles.
                                                              > I must disagree though with the somewhat blanket statement that
                                                              > attempts are being made to usurp AP with a new Sophia religion.
                                                              Though this is occurring outside of AP,
                                                              > the deeper issue remains that the heart and soul of AP still seems
                                                              deficient in the exact traits that religion so often supplies:
                                                              > devotion and deep heart forces.
                                                              >
                                                              > Though this complaint of AP has been stated many times, I continue
                                                              to see it as a main issue and how it weakens the appeal of the
                                                              movement and offerings of Steiner. . Knowledge and erudition is fine;
                                                              and this is a path of knowledge but without heart and warmth, its like
                                                              bamboo swaying in the wind.
                                                              >
                                                              > Lee
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              > ----- Original Message ----
                                                              > From: Steve Hale <sardisian01@...>
                                                              > To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
                                                              > Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 6:38:20 PM
                                                              > Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: Steiner and thinking
                                                              >
                                                              > Stephen,
                                                              >
                                                              > The first thing that must be understood is that Steiner gave a
                                                              > revelation to reasoning, much in the same way that the early church
                                                              > fathers were inspired by the faith that streamed down at the
                                                              > midpoint of the fourth cultural epoch. That was when the direct
                                                              > disciples of Christ, now traveling in higher worlds, entered the
                                                              > sphere of Venus and were collectively informed of a further
                                                              > dimension of the Christ Being that they had walked with on earth.
                                                              >
                                                              > Consequently, they were able to send down a message of love, hope
                                                              > and brotherliness to certain prepared individuals on earth, for the
                                                              > purpose of establishing the various religious orders. Thus, faith
                                                              > became the guiding principle behind the carefully developed
                                                              > doctrines of the churches on earth. This also had the effect of
                                                              > allowing reasoning to form as the additive element for such doctrine-
                                                              > building, which served to curtail the aims of the premature
                                                              > instreaming of the fifth cultural epoch into the fourth, which had
                                                              > the power to flood the world with consciousness soul in favor of the
                                                              > intellect. Faith served to act as a brake to this potential, and
                                                              > allowed the necessary slow advance of reasoning power for an induced
                                                              > view of the world.
                                                              >
                                                              > In modern times, since the beginning of the 20th century, a new
                                                              > revelation has become necessary for the further advance of reasoning
                                                              > power, and this comes by way of the work of Rudolf Steiner. It is
                                                              > particularly advantageous in our immediate time due to the efforts
                                                              > to instream the sixth cultural epoch into the fifth, and thus invoke
                                                              > a premature form of spirit self under the guise of a so-
                                                              > called "Being Anthroposophia" . The goal here is to create another
                                                              > icon of religious representation, like the Virgin Mary, that will
                                                              > attempt to turn anthroposophy into a religion. Faith and worship
                                                              > will attempt to subrate the proper developments of the consciousness
                                                              > soul, much in the same way that the earlier attempt tried to
                                                              > eliminate the intellect in favor of consciousness.
                                                              >
                                                              > This potential can be avoided if works like PoF, Truth and
                                                              > Knowledge, Goethe's World Conception, and Riddles of Philosophy, are
                                                              > properly extended into the actual content of occult knowledge, and
                                                              > adherence to the character of occult science is observed in the
                                                              > unfolding power of these new instruments; the instruments of the
                                                              > consciousness soul.
                                                              >
                                                              > Steve
                                                              >
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