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Re: Amoeba contra Manu

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  • opetha
    Hello Bradford OK, I understand what you re saying if only you wouldn t go so far ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of that
    Message 1 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
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      Hello Bradford

      OK, I understand what you're saying if only you wouldn't go so far
      ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of that
      psychological type.

      Jung's teaching was empirical as possible, he did not want to venture
      into the realm of spiritual sciences because he would leave mankind
      behind, which is what you tend to do. I don't agree with the notion
      that analytical psychology is a "scavenger hunt", the truth is that
      Jung and Steinar are like two sides of a coin, Jung of the
      unconscious and Steinar of the concious, and that you are biased
      because you represent, not a higher thinking, but a different HALF,
      and this is an empirical and provable thing (please don't argue with
      this--I know exactly what you will say). The set of four psychologicl
      types in Jung is not based on the same type of conscious thinking as
      all those quartets you gave me, and , unfortunately, is understood
      even less by spiritual thinking other philosophies.

      [I hope this comes out well in the post....]

      THINKING
      *
      *
      *
      INTUITION****************SENSATION
      *
      *
      *
      FEELING

      These are not vague concepts as in the elements and biles.
      Jung says of your THINKING type:

      "..there is still a another form of negative thinking, which at first
      glance might not be recognized as such, and that is THEOSOPHICAL
      THINKING, which today is rapidly spreading in all parts of the world,
      presumably in reaction to materialism of the recent past.
      Theosophical thinkng has an air that is not in the least reductive
      [that is, you will not come down to my level!!--Godot] since it
      exalts everything to a transcendental and world-embracing idea. A
      dream, for instance, is no longer just a dream, but an experience 'on
      another plane.' The herethereto fact of telepathy is very simply
      explained in 'vibrations' passing from one person to another. An
      ordinary nervous complaint is explained by the fact that something
      has collided with my 'astral body'.....We have only to open a
      theosophical book to be overwhelmed by the realization that
      everything is already explained, and that 'spiritual science' has
      left no enigmas unsolved. But, at bottom, this type of thinking is
      just as negative as materialistic thinking. When the latter regards
      psychology as chemical changes in the ganglia or ther extrusion and
      retraction of cell-pseudopodia or as internal secretion, this is as
      much a superstition as theosophy. The only thing is that theosophy
      reduces everything to eastern metaphysics.....Not only are both
      methods of explanation futile, they are actually destructive, because
      by diverting interest away from the main issue....to imaginary
      vibrations, they hamper any serious investigation of the problem by
      bogus explanation. Either kind of thinking is sterile and
      sterilizing. Its negative quality is due to the fact it is so
      indescribably cheap." -Psychological Types, X.2

      This cross of function types is an innate truth, not a conditioned
      one by meditation which any other quaternary of types would be.
      The "theosophical" thinking is not the I AM you think it is because
      it is the outer arm of this cross. You and Steve have written so
      much, but to me it doesn't quite speak my language, you use many
      metpahors and "force" words to prove you are excilerated, but in bias
      you will not reckon with the other half of mankind, like lucifer.
      Don't get me wrong, I am one wanting to develop my spiritual
      integrity, but it doesn't come quite as you think.

      You call me a "scavenger" and Mr. Hale says my talking is "new-age
      hodge-podge" (hang on !!--I thought you were the new-agers), which
      shows you are very combative in your own personalitistic ways and
      defensive of your drives, almost adolescent--and I have nothing
      against this, I will try to be fair but I'm still worried that you
      are UNABLE to be; and only stress this because, afterall, if you want
      to communicate with mankind you had better be considerate and not
      talk in the language you do of warped "power-words" to your own kind,
      and to your paying audience, because "mankind", as you maybe use that
      term, will NOT listen to you if you go so far ahead of them. What the
      other half of us CAN experience is our own unknown soul, which is the
      empirical unconscious (to reiterate Jung and Steinar are quite the
      opposites, Steinar was equally right because he had no
      unconsciousness, and what he did know of unconsciousness was
      conditioned by conscious metaphor and not by deductive reasoning---
      i.e. the dream-world is the "macrocosm" and not an instancing of sub-
      conscious complexes).

      A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school and
      shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use him as
      an example of someone who can be cured by analytical psychology, but
      NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the leaps of faith and
      consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars until he confronts
      himself on the Earth, no matter how "scavangering" this will be to
      him. You want to propound your science through cosmic rhetoric more
      than you want to heal, is this not so?

      Other (fundamental) thinking types with this type of "be all end all"
      thinking include Hitler and, on TV today, Docter Zakir Naik of the
      IRF and who claims that all sciences were written in the Q'URAN
      before they were discovered, proving God's greatness (and also that
      the Q'URAN is the most-divine poetry ever written !!). Both are great
      extraverted talkers because they BELEIVE 100% what they are saying is
      true, and the audience get cosmic about this, and propaganda rears
      its head. The unconsciouis has innate and fundamental referencing
      that can counteract any rarified thinking--but you anthroposophists
      cannot understand my language because the feeling-tone behnd yours.

      I take it my use of the word "karma" to you was a scavaging. I could
      equally say the same of Steinar's use of the word "unconscious". The
      natal horoscope progressed at 1/360th of its normal speed shows the
      symbols that, bad or good, will be activated in our course of life.
      These are synchronicities in so far that they give shape, heiroglyp
      and/or colour to unconscious archetypes without such, and give them a
      linear qualification. This is the best argument for the "spiritual
      sciences", this method of "psychological-astrology", because it is
      provable on the subjective plane and not on the objective. It is not
      scavaging in the sense that Jung is stealing something from your
      school, you have to be considerate and pay heed to this your opposite
      and compensator. The mandala was not new-age hodge-podge, it was a
      glimpse into the innateness of that horoscope and its centre as the
      SELF (or Brahm, the aura eminating from a plant was just one of the
      baised illusions Buddha destroyed).

      I would love to see aura and travel on the astral planet like you
      might do (I have already innitiated SOME magical virtues, still with
      the empirical unconsious undernieth, and still with my consideration
      of your mind set and abandining my own at those instances) but if I
      advance in this area it may not be because you have taught me but
      because I have taught myself. It may be because I am British and have
      not the type of whispy heads that you Americans have, but I cannot
      affiliate myself with something so biased and off centre and that is
      too depserate to convince like olf Adolf and Doctor Naik. The astral
      rewards are one thing--yes, I know that, but the abandonement of the
      emprirical unconscious (with mankind aong with it) is quite another.
      I will stick to my raja yoga and destroy your lucifer AND my ahriman.

      With love,
      Godot.








      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@> wrote:
      > <snip>
      > > And all these dispositions can only be based on karma, which is,
      even
      > > in wooden psychology, a empirical and provable science. And this
      is
      > > only provable is (for their sake) we abandon the whole notion
      (for
      > > the time being) of spiritual energy from the planets (though you,
      > > Bradford, and Steve Hale cannot do this) and reckon the idea of
      > > synchroncity.
      >
      > The idea of synchronicity and the concept of eternal recurrence was
      > made popular by Jung, yet he did not understand it to the degree
      > necessary to make it anything more than the typical symbolic-
      mandalic,
      > mumbo jumbo that you express with your own very typical new-age
      > hodgepodge.
      >
      > Thus, synchronicity from the standpoint of spiritual science
      concerns
      > the actual and progressive approach that is occurring right now,
      since
      > the advent of the 5th cultural epoch, for a remembrance of our past
      > lives. You'll find that experiences that come under the banner of
      > Jungian synchronicity concern increasing and extended events
      wherein
      > the sense of being here before is quite pronounced. I myself had
      an
      > extended experience of this so-called "deja vu" back in the third
      grade
      > when my school class went on a field trip to a railway station that
      had
      > been maintained just as it was at the turn of the 20th century.
      And I
      > remember being transfixed for the entire time we were there,
      feeling
      > the sense that I had experienced this very environment before. It
      was
      > very odd, yet quite a satisfying feeling as well.
      >
      > And what is important about the phenomena of synchronicity concerns
      the
      > need to make contact with our past lives, as it represents the very
      > substance of what will someday yield the fifth soul development;
      the
      > anandamayakosha, or bliss sheath, which will serve to convey our
      > immortality to ourselves as a certainty.
      >
      > Steve
      >
    • holderlin66
      carol wrote: I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact a `predominance of let s say the gnome elemental being within various individuals
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
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        carol wrote:

        "I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact
        a `predominance' of let's say the gnome elemental being within
        various individuals or is it an external expression of the soul's
        subconscious encounter" encounters....

        Bradford comments;

        Tatoo's are fads. But the attraction to being considered 'special'
        because you have a groovy tattoo is based mostly on the serious
        melancholic temperament. However because of the nature of
        faddishness, it is 'cool' to have body this and body that which is
        meaningless to the soul content. The soul content that these
        abstract soul scavengers think is cool is merely a fad like high
        school girls wearing very short navel exposed tee-shirts. I'm a
        teacher for heaven's sake, this is all unessential soul trivia. Just
        like rap, and baggy shorts and dressin like some punk gangsta. It
        means literally ' 0 '. None of these fads have secured any type of
        soul perception.

        The human soul when it comes into incarnation brings with it a
        suitcase full of fire, air, water, earth, personality features and
        traits that are true elemental servants. These eventually become
        modified well shaped plastic or mobile features of the animated
        personality. Once again please note, these beings are part of what
        we carry within our I AM and karmic package when we incarnate. These
        beings assist us and become integrated into our personality make-up
        until what we see as the type of personality, with their four
        traits, no longer reveals to the eye the elemental, yet the
        elemental is in there.

        Now gnomish, and Ahrimanic greys and predominating depressive
        elemental beings that form the melancholic dominating personality
        trait can be part of the actual ahrimanized and corrupted inner
        vision of the soul that are felt when there are rumors of alien
        Abductees. However the outline I am offering is the solid basis of
        what we carry from the spiritual world into physical incarnation and
        what Buddha carried and freed up and transformed and what we are
        assigned to transform. Part of our job is to humanized and free up
        these elemental servants as Buddha did, when we complete our
        development as humans. We don't get released from incarnation, from
        physical matter if have not acknowledged and learned of these four
        beings and forces in our nature as operative cosmic servants.

        Sanguine Type:

        The Sylph and the sylph type lends the personality terms like dumb
        blonde or shop till you drop joy boys and sunshine girls. Swooping,
        lightness, fun loving and generally in a sunshine mood, the sylph
        would tend to lift the human spirit, bring a smile to a sad face and
        when a little child is in a crying jag, sometimes it is the colorful
        sylph aspect of hidden temperament that must come out of the child
        and the child also gets to know, learns to get to know what that
        laughter triggers and how to understand laughter as a visitation and
        entrance into the sylph style of behavior that has to do with Air
        and Light. Air, light and joy as part of the old sylph being that
        has come with the child from the spiritual world, as part of its
        etheric foundation and can be used as part of its personality trait
        has also a downside.

        Sometimes when this personality trait dominates, we understand that
        the personality, the human personality is being protected by the
        sylph and the human being hides within the sylph light because the
        darkness all around the soul damages the human child and the
        darkness around that it saw when a child forced it to hide within
        the Sylph lightness, the unbearable lightness of being. And we can
        see how this lightness, lack of depth becomes a sort of personality
        crutch for the child as he/she develops. A place where no hard
        thoughts harm and people are given pleasure instead of pain to
        disguise their hurts. A lot of the sylph or sanguine natured adults
        have arisen due to childhood abuses in one way or another.

        http://www.wam.umd.edu/~llsp/sylph.jpg

        holderlin wrote:

        "What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
        friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
        within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
        exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
        in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
        taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
        our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child should
        not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
        friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent ASAP "Heart
        and Souls".

        "Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
        called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
        people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
        air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
        need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
        and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to understand
        anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the dots
        that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
        Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything."

        Phlegmatic Type:

        The water nixie and watery nymph enjoices the juices, the tastes and
        the good meals of sitting at fine dining. How do the wines taste?
        What springs and vineyards yield the finest wines? What makes you
        salivate and gets the Water Nymph/Phlegmatic side of your nature to
        rise up out of your physical body, your physical stone base and
        lends you the mood he/she brings forward?

        Teletubby's are the obnoxious little demon nymphs that have been
        fostered by a fast food, phat America, false saliviating taste-bud
        blubber, bouncing, over weight America, from children to their flaky
        trailer park parents, have been made into numbed, television rotted,
        staring vegtables, which is to insult the fine work that the water
        spirits do in vegetables.

        Who fooled the Nymph? Who has polluted her cosmic tastes, our
        intimate human cosmic waters, that Thetis, mother of Achilles is
        famous for? Monsanto and fully failed, misleading and whored taste-
        buds that have marketed supermarket crap that children must eat as
        fads, phat, and foul corporate profits to sustain their lies. I can
        tell you that Sanguine, Choleric and Melancholic natures are more
        prized in our fast paced society than the phlegmatic, steady, nearly
        photographic brain of the overweight phlegmatic is.

        http://snowbarsk.autoklad.com/images/zasimovich/sculpture/5.jpg

        Choleric type;

        Now the hot blooded and fiery choleric, can be found in Emergency
        Rooms and in Medics everywhere. They are not always fiery red-headed
        carrot tops that always stare at you with 'come on, go ahead, I can
        take ya' faces. That fire appears in the soft embering glow of
        Steiner's in depth lectures, fiery Michael forces supercharged his
        blood, where the warmth in his Iron and Light ignited spirit flares
        that revealed clarity where there was gathering darkness. His words
        rang as consecrated light in all directions. Fission, fusion and
        Iron centered sun spirituality cooked Steiner's rich dishes with a
        warm, kindled, human blaze.

        But then again, on the battle front of life, saving lives, from fire
        men and women to police and swat teams to search and rescue on the
        high seas, to special forces teams, you hear the choleric
        shout, 'GO, GO, GO, GO!'. Adrenaline junkies can be found working
        rush hours in restaurants, on the cooking line in the heat of the
        battle, where the grills spit fire right in their faces and they
        spit back. Choleric fire is in all of us, even Tiger Woods breaks
        from his Zen mode to get really pissed off sometimes.

        "Some people – and all narcissists – are addicted to excitement, to
        the adrenaline rush, to the danger inevitably and invariably
        involved. They are the adrenaline junkies. All narcissists are
        adrenaline junkies – but not all adrenaline junkies are narcissists.

        Thus, an adrenaline junkie must have a supply, a feed, which always
        comes with invented excitement, real or invented drama or emotional
        drama queens that have choleric forces in their feeling life. We can
        understand that choleric forces or any of the other temperaments can
        lodge themselves, not only in the will, but in the feeling, and in
        the region of mental aggression. On the one hand solid Choleric
        types are described as closer to the ground, Napoleonic and over
        confident. In a pinch you know that a Choleric will cover your back,
        fight to the death and remain in the game though anxiety is
        everywhere and the odds against you are everywhere a great choleric
        will be the last face you see before you pass out.

        When unable to secure "normal" Narcissistic Supply – adulation,
        recognition, fame, celebrity, notoriety, infamy, affirmation, or
        mere attention – the adrenaline junkie resorts to "abnormal"
        attention grabbers. He tries to obtain his drug – the thrills, the
        good feeling that comes with adrenalin – by behaving recklessly, by
        succumbing to substance abuse, or by living dangerously.

        Such narcissists – faced with a chronic state of deficient
        Narcissistic Supply – become criminals, or race drivers, or
        gamblers, or soldiers, or investigative journalists. They defy
        authority. They avoid safety, routine and boredom – no safe sex, no
        financial prudence, no stable marriage or career. They become
        peripatetic, change jobs, or lovers, or vocations, or avocations, or
        residences, or friendships often.

        But sometimes even these extreme and demonstrative steps are not
        enough. When confronted with a boring, routine existence – with a
        chronic and permanent inability to secure Narcissistic Supply and
        excitement – these people compensate by inventing thrills where
        there are none."

        http://phopro.ie/earthspirit/fire_salamander.jpg

        http://www.matrifocus.com/IMB05/images/fire-salamander-sm.jpg

        Melancholic type;

        The Melancholic earth dominated, nihilistic, Columbine depression,
        Nietzsche fixated, hooded rapper has a sharp wit. Often sees the
        bitter edges, the flaws, the inconsistencies and certainly
        gravitates and finds its deepest kindled light out of darkness. You
        could look at how Rembrandt took the darkness and found in it golden
        hues...as highly interesting.

        The compression of darkness and the usual Adam's family values of
        tatoos, dark flesh piercings, pain, S&M, torture, the daughter in
        the film "BeetleJuice" dressed in black and seeing dead people bring
        the soul into connection with the current cultural gesture of
        XXXXXtreme melancholic and enchained gnomes who must be sentenced,
        as the roots of trees, and mines are strip mined, and earth is
        carved up, the gnomes are sucked into a horrificaly depressing
        computerization of human intellectual forces.

        The Earth spirit gnome, ruled the biting wit of intellectual forces
        and now lurking in the mines and dark regions of the soul are
        Ahriman's horrific hordes. And sucked into the electro magnitic
        sphere, gnomes are compressed into Internet darkness where humans
        fail to see the depth and light that is in the intellect, the same
        as they refuse and fail to see the depths and ROOTS of the universe,
        the soul and the Spirit as the roots of a great Tree of the I AM,
        Yggdrassil. Wagner and Tolkien felt the dark tug of the gnome
        community, wiped out and forced into elemental slave labor within
        the the electronic, hi-tech communications systems, inventions and
        military experimentation.

        Vast bacteria, watery, laser, and hi-tech atomic table forces are
        being whored, harnassed demonized in labs and forced into elemental
        labor and etheric torture to bring epidemics, annhilation by fire,
        radiation, and disrupting earthquakes, tidal waves and many of them
        now merely human generated for selfless political ends from the far
        west. Because the human sylph, nymph, salamander and gnome forces in
        the healing processes of the human being are being trained literally
        as Tolkien described how the elves became Orcs. But the joke is on
        humanity. For these beings are literally ripping into the cosmic
        human model and the safeguards of the human healing systems by labs
        that the American people are paying for so that the surface
        intellect can remain in its ahrimanized slumber. This was not the
        Agel of Light our children came to participate in, but the its
        horrific opposite and it is U, U who sit there and read these things
        that have failed to IMAGINE clearly what is going on.

        This mighty potential and sacrifice of the melancholic gomes, where
        humans cannot think and they merely become the darkness, become
        nihilistic, become dangerous in their own stewing darkness, enjoy
        their selfish dangers, dark drugs and brooding faddishness...shames
        Hamlet and Hamlet is our own Consciousness Soul. Our Consciousness
        Soul does have a gesture and certainly the black suited Dr. Steiner
        and that sort of lecture fad, wouldn't have our usual melancholics
        and deep thinkers, now parading around in Hawaiian shirts now would
        they? Well they should play against type and certainly Steiner would
        not be all tatooed with dark coal tints under his eyes for that
        vampire effect, if he walked into a room today. But Anthros still
        see it that way. Anthros hardly would trust an infusion of happy
        rollicking Michaelites pulling up in their Harley's to give
        conferences and talks. They have to be conservative, sober and
        unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings
        latent in the Anthro, because Anthros just want to gawk and stare at
        the old b/w photos of Der Doctor, instead of revealing the bubbling
        life of the new Etheric Worlds. Eh?

        http://www.jazlink.com/jazlbums/England/HPIM0074.sized.jpg

        http://www.sculpturebyspirit.com/door.html
      • Steve Hale
        ... that ... Yes, Bradford writes alot, just as you write alot. Actually, I don t see much of a difference. Now, I try to write in brief because it serves to
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
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          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Bradford
          >
          > OK, I understand what you're saying if only you wouldn't go so far
          > ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of
          that
          > psychological type.

          Yes, Bradford writes alot, just as you write alot. Actually, I
          don't see much of a difference. Now, I try to write in brief
          because it serves to catch the eye, and maybe gets a response, which
          is what I look for. I said you wrote "hodgepodge" because you were
          pulling out all stops to write 'new-age' dribble, which some
          possibly could have found offensive. In fact, I found your initial
          post offensive and arrogant. And that is why I didn't respond to
          indications of Steinerian concepts from his "Foundations of
          Esotericism" lectures from 1905.

          You are quite right in that Jung and Steiner represent a polarity;
          just as Kant and Steiner represent a polarity from a philosophical
          standpoint. This has all been gone over before, on that other
          little ship called the s.s. minnow. Jung is to psychology what Kant
          is to philosophy in terms of limits to knowledge and perception.
          And Rudolf Steiner overcame these bounds for those that seek to
          overcome such limits in order to go further in terms of knowledge
          and being.

          Esotericism and its relationship to modern thought is what interests
          me. Spiritual science exists in order to extend thinking and
          knowledge into the causal realm that stands behind external
          phenomena. But you have to take up the study in earnest, just as
          you have taken up your study of Jungian principles according to a
          collective unconsciousness that is quite attractive to people today
          because it leaves the mysteries and enigmas alone; except to engage
          in conservative speculation about what things mean in the greater
          course of events.

          Thus, synchonicity and its phenomenal representation is a fact that
          only spiritual science can truly penetrate into its causality as an
          increasing experience of spiritual necessity. I didn't want to lose
          that important point.

          Steve
        • carol
          Thanks so much! As for this; They have to be conservative, sober and unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings latent in the Anthro,
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
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            Thanks so much!

            As for this;
            They have to be conservative, sober and
            unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings
            latent in the Anthro, because Anthros just want to gawk and stare at
            the old b/w photos of Der Doctor, instead of revealing the bubbling
            life of the new Etheric Worlds. Eh?

            I beleive it's changing with the younger generation's influence but
            I agree with you, I was puzzled by it a few decades ago when I
            apprached the 'community'; and also worth mentioning is the setbacks
            at remaining dependent on group development. You're taliking to a
            former minor Gothic who lived by Anthroposophy but could never feel
            safe nor individual creative freedom anywhere near the 'community'.

            I have the impression that it's changing; the few Anthros that I do
            know have matured and are past their pretentious and competitive
            years. Like what occurs within the general population, once you get
            past a certain age, it's easier to appreciate one another.

            Carol.




            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
            <holderlin66@...> wrote:
            >
            > carol wrote:
            >
            > "I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact
            > a `predominance' of let's say the gnome elemental being within
            > various individuals or is it an external expression of the soul's
            > subconscious encounter" encounters....
            >
            > Bradford comments;
            >
            > Tatoo's are fads. But the attraction to being considered 'special'
            > because you have a groovy tattoo is based mostly on the serious
            > melancholic temperament. However because of the nature of
            > faddishness, it is 'cool' to have body this and body that which is
            > meaningless to the soul content. The soul content that these
            > abstract soul scavengers think is cool is merely a fad like high
            > school girls wearing very short navel exposed tee-shirts. I'm a
            > teacher for heaven's sake, this is all unessential soul trivia.
            Just
            > like rap, and baggy shorts and dressin like some punk gangsta. It
            > means literally ' 0 '. None of these fads have secured any type
            of
            > soul perception.
            >
            > The human soul when it comes into incarnation brings with it a
            > suitcase full of fire, air, water, earth, personality features and
            > traits that are true elemental servants. These eventually become
            > modified well shaped plastic or mobile features of the animated
            > personality. Once again please note, these beings are part of what
            > we carry within our I AM and karmic package when we incarnate.
            These
            > beings assist us and become integrated into our personality make-
            up
            > until what we see as the type of personality, with their four
            > traits, no longer reveals to the eye the elemental, yet the
            > elemental is in there.
            >
            > Now gnomish, and Ahrimanic greys and predominating depressive
            > elemental beings that form the melancholic dominating personality
            > trait can be part of the actual ahrimanized and corrupted inner
            > vision of the soul that are felt when there are rumors of alien
            > Abductees. However the outline I am offering is the solid basis of
            > what we carry from the spiritual world into physical incarnation
            and
            > what Buddha carried and freed up and transformed and what we are
            > assigned to transform. Part of our job is to humanized and free up
            > these elemental servants as Buddha did, when we complete our
            > development as humans. We don't get released from incarnation,
            from
            > physical matter if have not acknowledged and learned of these four
            > beings and forces in our nature as operative cosmic servants.
            >
            > Sanguine Type:
            >
            > The Sylph and the sylph type lends the personality terms like dumb
            > blonde or shop till you drop joy boys and sunshine girls. Swooping,
            > lightness, fun loving and generally in a sunshine mood, the sylph
            > would tend to lift the human spirit, bring a smile to a sad face
            and
            > when a little child is in a crying jag, sometimes it is the
            colorful
            > sylph aspect of hidden temperament that must come out of the child
            > and the child also gets to know, learns to get to know what that
            > laughter triggers and how to understand laughter as a visitation
            and
            > entrance into the sylph style of behavior that has to do with Air
            > and Light. Air, light and joy as part of the old sylph being that
            > has come with the child from the spiritual world, as part of its
            > etheric foundation and can be used as part of its personality trait
            > has also a downside.
            >
            > Sometimes when this personality trait dominates, we understand that
            > the personality, the human personality is being protected by the
            > sylph and the human being hides within the sylph light because the
            > darkness all around the soul damages the human child and the
            > darkness around that it saw when a child forced it to hide within
            > the Sylph lightness, the unbearable lightness of being. And we can
            > see how this lightness, lack of depth becomes a sort of personality
            > crutch for the child as he/she develops. A place where no hard
            > thoughts harm and people are given pleasure instead of pain to
            > disguise their hurts. A lot of the sylph or sanguine natured adults
            > have arisen due to childhood abuses in one way or another.
            >
            > http://www.wam.umd.edu/~llsp/sylph.jpg
            >
            > holderlin wrote:
            >
            > "What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
            > friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
            > within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
            > exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
            > in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
            > taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
            > our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child
            should
            > not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
            > friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent
            ASAP "Heart
            > and Souls".
            >
            > "Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
            > called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
            > people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
            > air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
            > need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
            > and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to
            understand
            > anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the
            dots
            > that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
            > Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything."
            >
            > Phlegmatic Type:
            >
            > The water nixie and watery nymph enjoices the juices, the tastes
            and
            > the good meals of sitting at fine dining. How do the wines taste?
            > What springs and vineyards yield the finest wines? What makes you
            > salivate and gets the Water Nymph/Phlegmatic side of your nature to
            > rise up out of your physical body, your physical stone base and
            > lends you the mood he/she brings forward?
            >
            > Teletubby's are the obnoxious little demon nymphs that have been
            > fostered by a fast food, phat America, false saliviating taste-bud
            > blubber, bouncing, over weight America, from children to their
            flaky
            > trailer park parents, have been made into numbed, television
            rotted,
            > staring vegtables, which is to insult the fine work that the water
            > spirits do in vegetables.
            >
            > Who fooled the Nymph? Who has polluted her cosmic tastes, our
            > intimate human cosmic waters, that Thetis, mother of Achilles is
            > famous for? Monsanto and fully failed, misleading and whored taste-
            > buds that have marketed supermarket crap that children must eat as
            > fads, phat, and foul corporate profits to sustain their lies. I can
            > tell you that Sanguine, Choleric and Melancholic natures are more
            > prized in our fast paced society than the phlegmatic, steady,
            nearly
            > photographic brain of the overweight phlegmatic is.
            >
            > http://snowbarsk.autoklad.com/images/zasimovich/sculpture/5.jpg
            >
            > Choleric type;
            >
            > Now the hot blooded and fiery choleric, can be found in Emergency
            > Rooms and in Medics everywhere. They are not always fiery red-
            headed
            > carrot tops that always stare at you with 'come on, go ahead, I can
            > take ya' faces. That fire appears in the soft embering glow of
            > Steiner's in depth lectures, fiery Michael forces supercharged his
            > blood, where the warmth in his Iron and Light ignited spirit flares
            > that revealed clarity where there was gathering darkness. His words
            > rang as consecrated light in all directions. Fission, fusion and
            > Iron centered sun spirituality cooked Steiner's rich dishes with a
            > warm, kindled, human blaze.
            >
            > But then again, on the battle front of life, saving lives, from
            fire
            > men and women to police and swat teams to search and rescue on the
            > high seas, to special forces teams, you hear the choleric
            > shout, 'GO, GO, GO, GO!'. Adrenaline junkies can be found working
            > rush hours in restaurants, on the cooking line in the heat of the
            > battle, where the grills spit fire right in their faces and they
            > spit back. Choleric fire is in all of us, even Tiger Woods breaks
            > from his Zen mode to get really pissed off sometimes.
            >
            > "Some people – and all narcissists – are addicted to excitement, to
            > the adrenaline rush, to the danger inevitably and invariably
            > involved. They are the adrenaline junkies. All narcissists are
            > adrenaline junkies – but not all adrenaline junkies are
            narcissists.
            >
            > Thus, an adrenaline junkie must have a supply, a feed, which always
            > comes with invented excitement, real or invented drama or emotional
            > drama queens that have choleric forces in their feeling life. We
            can
            > understand that choleric forces or any of the other temperaments
            can
            > lodge themselves, not only in the will, but in the feeling, and in
            > the region of mental aggression. On the one hand solid Choleric
            > types are described as closer to the ground, Napoleonic and over
            > confident. In a pinch you know that a Choleric will cover your
            back,
            > fight to the death and remain in the game though anxiety is
            > everywhere and the odds against you are everywhere a great choleric
            > will be the last face you see before you pass out.
            >
            > When unable to secure "normal" Narcissistic Supply – adulation,
            > recognition, fame, celebrity, notoriety, infamy, affirmation, or
            > mere attention – the adrenaline junkie resorts to "abnormal"
            > attention grabbers. He tries to obtain his drug – the thrills, the
            > good feeling that comes with adrenalin – by behaving recklessly, by
            > succumbing to substance abuse, or by living dangerously.
            >
            > Such narcissists – faced with a chronic state of deficient
            > Narcissistic Supply – become criminals, or race drivers, or
            > gamblers, or soldiers, or investigative journalists. They defy
            > authority. They avoid safety, routine and boredom – no safe sex, no
            > financial prudence, no stable marriage or career. They become
            > peripatetic, change jobs, or lovers, or vocations, or avocations,
            or
            > residences, or friendships often.
            >
            > But sometimes even these extreme and demonstrative steps are not
            > enough. When confronted with a boring, routine existence – with a
            > chronic and permanent inability to secure Narcissistic Supply and
            > excitement – these people compensate by inventing thrills where
            > there are none."
            >
            > http://phopro.ie/earthspirit/fire_salamander.jpg
            >
            > http://www.matrifocus.com/IMB05/images/fire-salamander-sm.jpg
            >
            > Melancholic type;
            >
            > The Melancholic earth dominated, nihilistic, Columbine depression,
            > Nietzsche fixated, hooded rapper has a sharp wit. Often sees the
            > bitter edges, the flaws, the inconsistencies and certainly
            > gravitates and finds its deepest kindled light out of darkness. You
            > could look at how Rembrandt took the darkness and found in it
            golden
            > hues...as highly interesting.
            >
            > The compression of darkness and the usual Adam's family values of
            > tatoos, dark flesh piercings, pain, S&M, torture, the daughter in
            > the film "BeetleJuice" dressed in black and seeing dead people
            bring
            > the soul into connection with the current cultural gesture of
            > XXXXXtreme melancholic and enchained gnomes who must be sentenced,
            > as the roots of trees, and mines are strip mined, and earth is
            > carved up, the gnomes are sucked into a horrificaly depressing
            > computerization of human intellectual forces.
            >
            > The Earth spirit gnome, ruled the biting wit of intellectual forces
            > and now lurking in the mines and dark regions of the soul are
            > Ahriman's horrific hordes. And sucked into the electro magnitic
            > sphere, gnomes are compressed into Internet darkness where humans
            > fail to see the depth and light that is in the intellect, the same
            > as they refuse and fail to see the depths and ROOTS of the
            universe,
            > the soul and the Spirit as the roots of a great Tree of the I AM,
            > Yggdrassil. Wagner and Tolkien felt the dark tug of the gnome
            > community, wiped out and forced into elemental slave labor within
            > the the electronic, hi-tech communications systems, inventions and
            > military experimentation.
            >
            > Vast bacteria, watery, laser, and hi-tech atomic table forces are
            > being whored, harnassed demonized in labs and forced into elemental
            > labor and etheric torture to bring epidemics, annhilation by fire,
            > radiation, and disrupting earthquakes, tidal waves and many of them
            > now merely human generated for selfless political ends from the far
            > west. Because the human sylph, nymph, salamander and gnome forces
            in
            > the healing processes of the human being are being trained
            literally
            > as Tolkien described how the elves became Orcs. But the joke is on
            > humanity. For these beings are literally ripping into the cosmic
            > human model and the safeguards of the human healing systems by labs
            > that the American people are paying for so that the surface
            > intellect can remain in its ahrimanized slumber. This was not the
            > Agel of Light our children came to participate in, but the its
            > horrific opposite and it is U, U who sit there and read these
            things
            > that have failed to IMAGINE clearly what is going on.
            >
            > This mighty potential and sacrifice of the melancholic gomes, where
            > humans cannot think and they merely become the darkness, become
            > nihilistic, become dangerous in their own stewing darkness, enjoy
            > their selfish dangers, dark drugs and brooding faddishness...shames
            > Hamlet and Hamlet is our own Consciousness Soul. Our Consciousness
            > Soul does have a gesture and certainly the black suited Dr. Steiner
            > and that sort of lecture fad, wouldn't have our usual melancholics
            > and deep thinkers, now parading around in Hawaiian shirts now would
            > they? Well they should play against type and certainly Steiner
            would
            > not be all tatooed with dark coal tints under his eyes for that
            > vampire effect, if he walked into a room today. But Anthros still
            > see it that way. Anthros hardly would trust an infusion of happy
            > rollicking Michaelites pulling up in their Harley's to give
            > conferences and talks. They have to be conservative, sober and
            > unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings
            > latent in the Anthro, because Anthros just want to gawk and stare
            at
            > the old b/w photos of Der Doctor, instead of revealing the bubbling
            > life of the new Etheric Worlds. Eh?
            >
            > http://www.jazlink.com/jazlbums/England/HPIM0074.sized.jpg
            >
            > http://www.sculpturebyspirit.com/door.html
            >
          • opetha
            Hello, Disfigurations in the Orient is the opposite of Transformations in the Occident , where would we be without ambiguity? We must face our devil
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 5, 2006
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              Hello,

              "Disfigurations in the Orient" is the opposite of "Transformations in
              the Occident", where would we be without ambiguity? We must face our
              devil sometime.

              Tarot cards--that's why it appears "typical new-age", maybe a typical
              filter is the case. But what I say is 100% eternal law of the dhamma,
              so far as the unconscious as mulaprakriti is unchanging ideation from
              which any spiritual world, in any epoch, is built.

              Bless.

              Godot.












              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello Bradford
              > >
              > > OK, I understand what you're saying if only you wouldn't go so
              far
              > > ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of
              > that
              > > psychological type.
              >
              > Yes, Bradford writes alot, just as you write alot. Actually, I
              > don't see much of a difference. Now, I try to write in brief
              > because it serves to catch the eye, and maybe gets a response,
              which
              > is what I look for. I said you wrote "hodgepodge" because you
              were
              > pulling out all stops to write 'new-age' dribble, which some
              > possibly could have found offensive. In fact, I found your initial
              > post offensive and arrogant. And that is why I didn't respond to
              > indications of Steinerian concepts from his "Foundations of
              > Esotericism" lectures from 1905.
              >
              > You are quite right in that Jung and Steiner represent a polarity;
              > just as Kant and Steiner represent a polarity from a philosophical
              > standpoint. This has all been gone over before, on that other
              > little ship called the s.s. minnow. Jung is to psychology what
              Kant
              > is to philosophy in terms of limits to knowledge and perception.
              > And Rudolf Steiner overcame these bounds for those that seek to
              > overcome such limits in order to go further in terms of knowledge
              > and being.
              >
              > Esotericism and its relationship to modern thought is what
              interests
              > me. Spiritual science exists in order to extend thinking and
              > knowledge into the causal realm that stands behind external
              > phenomena. But you have to take up the study in earnest, just as
              > you have taken up your study of Jungian principles according to a
              > collective unconsciousness that is quite attractive to people today
              > because it leaves the mysteries and enigmas alone; except to engage
              > in conservative speculation about what things mean in the greater
              > course of events.
              >
              > Thus, synchonicity and its phenomenal representation is a fact that
              > only spiritual science can truly penetrate into its causality as an
              > increasing experience of spiritual necessity. I didn't want to
              lose
              > that important point.
              >
              > Steve
              >
            • holderlin66
              Godot wrote: A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use him as an
              Message 6 of 30 , Oct 5, 2006
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                Godot wrote:

                "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school
                and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use
                him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound your
                science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is this
                not so?"

                "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                Things."

                Bradford comments;

                Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal. But we
                can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical point
                means better than the current Jungians.

                John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age 33.
                Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the world
                over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the Declaration
                of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing Religious
                Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.

                María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.

                1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES

                Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0

                (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)

                In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space of
                just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become one of
                the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with three
                friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                labeled "Transcendentalism."

                The Human Life by George O'Neil

                " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of Biography.
                The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of seven-
                year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the archetype
                of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead particularly
                after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly. The
                book goes into detail about the need to understand the importance of
                a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                karmic companions, moon nodes etc.

                In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The chart
                has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea, and
                karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived and I
                personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.

                George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work and
                insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain even
                through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a Mercury
                Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."

                Bradford concludes;

                Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously we
                have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures with
                first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and the
                change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart; the
                astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33 years
                of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to 1933
                when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is Ahriman
                who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.

                What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is exposed to
                all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It recrossed
                his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to what we
                have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful elemental
                intensity and GUILT.

                But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces that
                truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I AM,
                human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away from
                his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age, when
                Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of the
                two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math and
                interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world and
                Man.

                But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as possible
                the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate
                and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point.
                Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the Christ
                take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away, looking
                down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully developed
                etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and as
                fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra to
                hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts the
                amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that Zarathustra
                watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest prepared
                human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this loving,
                living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun Elohim
                Christ.

                It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that Zarathustra
                had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a clarified
                astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom ever
                condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a gift to
                something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine all
                the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched althought
                Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                mysteries to us.

                Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM live
                fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33. Take
                Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region of
                the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this I
                AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt the
                karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world over
                and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds, Goethe,
                Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the Christ
                event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic family
                with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic family!!
                Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson with
                his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner titles
                his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative of
                Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?

                Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the science
                of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at age 30
                to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting confrontation
                with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say we
                could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list of
                insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding places
                in the bushes.

                This is all that you need to remember about the difference between
                Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
              • opetha
                Good day, THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH ! Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn t matter in the end, we all have our own opinions and beliefs.
                Message 7 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
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                  Good day,

                  THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !

                  Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end, we
                  all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I would
                  rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the 33
                  and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed horoscope
                  they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33, 34,
                  or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.

                  Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                  saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto when
                  he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect lasts a
                  long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This system
                  has
                  never known to fail, and like your interpretations of synchronicity
                  , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by

                  (a) energy
                  or (b) causality

                  Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was not
                  a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of the
                  SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                  tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the jambu
                  tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                  energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                  quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the centre
                  was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                  types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                  have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).

                  Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying that
                  the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth by
                  a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from the
                  bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                  sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.

                  "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                  -Pythagoras

                  Godot.
















                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66" <holderlin66@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Godot wrote:
                  >
                  > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school
                  > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use
                  > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                  > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                  > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                  > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                  > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound your
                  > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is this
                  > not so?"
                  >
                  > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                  > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                  > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                  > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                  > Things."
                  >
                  > Bradford comments;
                  >
                  > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                  > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal. But
                  we
                  > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                  point
                  > means better than the current Jungians.
                  >
                  > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age 33.
                  > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the world
                  > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the Declaration
                  > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing Religious
                  > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                  >
                  > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                  > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                  >
                  > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                  >
                  > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                  >
                  > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                  >
                  > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space of
                  > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become one
                  of
                  > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                  > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                  three
                  > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                  > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                  > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                  >
                  > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                  >
                  > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                  > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of Biography.
                  > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                  seven-
                  > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the archetype
                  > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                  particularly
                  > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly. The
                  > book goes into detail about the need to understand the importance
                  of
                  > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                  > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                  >
                  > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The chart
                  > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea, and
                  > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived and I
                  > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                  > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                  > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                  >
                  > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work and
                  > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain even
                  > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a Mercury
                  > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."
                  >
                  > Bradford concludes;
                  >
                  > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously we
                  > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                  with
                  > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and the
                  > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart; the
                  > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                  > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                  > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                  > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33 years
                  > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                  1933
                  > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is Ahriman
                  > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                  >
                  > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is exposed
                  to
                  > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                  recrossed
                  > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to what
                  we
                  > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful elemental
                  > intensity and GUILT.
                  >
                  > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                  > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                  > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces that
                  > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I AM,
                  > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away from
                  > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age, when
                  > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                  > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of the
                  > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                  > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math
                  and
                  > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world and
                  > Man.
                  >
                  > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as possible
                  > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                  > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                  > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate
                  > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point.
                  > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the Christ
                  > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                  > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away, looking
                  > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully developed
                  > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                  > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and as
                  > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra to
                  > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts
                  the
                  > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that Zarathustra
                  > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest prepared
                  > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this loving,
                  > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun Elohim
                  > Christ.
                  >
                  > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that Zarathustra
                  > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a clarified
                  > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom ever
                  > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                  > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a gift
                  to
                  > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine
                  all
                  > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                  > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched althought
                  > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                  > mysteries to us.
                  >
                  > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                  > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM live
                  > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33. Take
                  > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region of
                  > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this I
                  > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt the
                  > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world over
                  > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds, Goethe,
                  > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the Christ
                  > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                  family
                  > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                  family!!
                  > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                  > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                  > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                  > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                  with
                  > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                  > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner titles
                  > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative of
                  > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                  >
                  > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                  science
                  > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at age
                  30
                  > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting confrontation
                  > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                  > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                  > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say we
                  > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list of
                  > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding places
                  > in the bushes.
                  >
                  > This is all that you need to remember about the difference between
                  > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                  >
                • carol
                  Dear Godot, Perhaps next time around you ll possess the great courage necessary to take on the `big picture . Please take note that your inner urge to
                  Message 8 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Dear Godot,

                    Perhaps next time around you'll possess the great courage necessary
                    to take on the `big picture'. Please take note that your inner urge
                    to directly wrestling with Anthroposophy has now
                    figuratively `sprinkled your soul with a light drizzle'.

                    May the heavens ray down upon you... in sympathy, Carol

                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Good day,
                    >
                    > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !
                    >
                    > Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end,
                    we
                    > all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I
                    would
                    > rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the
                    33
                    > and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed
                    horoscope
                    > they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33,
                    34,
                    > or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.
                    >
                    > Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                    > saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto
                    when
                    > he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect
                    lasts a
                    > long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This
                    system
                    > has
                    > never known to fail, and like your interpretations of synchronicity
                    > , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by
                    >
                    > (a) energy
                    > or (b) causality
                    >
                    > Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was
                    not
                    > a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of
                    the
                    > SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                    > tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the
                    jambu
                    > tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                    > energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                    > quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the
                    centre
                    > was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                    > types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                    > have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).
                    >
                    > Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying
                    that
                    > the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth
                    by
                    > a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from
                    the
                    > bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                    > sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.
                    >
                    > "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                    > -Pythagoras
                    >
                    > Godot.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66" <holderlin66@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Godot wrote:
                    > >
                    > > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish
                    school
                    > > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will
                    use
                    > > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                    > > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                    > > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                    > > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                    > > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound
                    your
                    > > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                    this
                    > > not so?"
                    > >
                    > > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                    > > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                    > > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                    > > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                    > > Things."
                    > >
                    > > Bradford comments;
                    > >
                    > > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                    > > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal.
                    But
                    > we
                    > > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                    > point
                    > > means better than the current Jungians.
                    > >
                    > > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age
                    33.
                    > > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the
                    world
                    > > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                    Declaration
                    > > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing
                    Religious
                    > > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                    > >
                    > > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                    > > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                    > >
                    > > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                    > >
                    > > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                    > >
                    > > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                    > >
                    > > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space
                    of
                    > > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become
                    one
                    > of
                    > > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                    > > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                    > three
                    > > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                    > > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                    > > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                    > >
                    > > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                    > >
                    > > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                    > > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of
                    Biography.
                    > > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                    > seven-
                    > > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the
                    archetype
                    > > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                    > particularly
                    > > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                    The
                    > > book goes into detail about the need to understand the
                    importance
                    > of
                    > > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                    > > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                    > >
                    > > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                    chart
                    > > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea,
                    and
                    > > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived
                    and I
                    > > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                    > > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                    > > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                    > >
                    > > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work
                    and
                    > > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain
                    even
                    > > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a
                    Mercury
                    > > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."
                    > >
                    > > Bradford concludes;
                    > >
                    > > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously
                    we
                    > > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                    > with
                    > > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and
                    the
                    > > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart;
                    the
                    > > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                    > > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                    > > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                    > > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33
                    years
                    > > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                    > 1933
                    > > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                    Ahriman
                    > > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                    > >
                    > > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is
                    exposed
                    > to
                    > > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                    > recrossed
                    > > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to
                    what
                    > we
                    > > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                    elemental
                    > > intensity and GUILT.
                    > >
                    > > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                    > > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                    > > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces
                    that
                    > > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I
                    AM,
                    > > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away
                    from
                    > > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                    when
                    > > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                    > > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of
                    the
                    > > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                    > > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math
                    > and
                    > > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world
                    and
                    > > Man.
                    > >
                    > > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as
                    possible
                    > > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                    > > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                    > > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                    incubate
                    > > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that
                    point.
                    > > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                    Christ
                    > > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                    > > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away,
                    looking
                    > > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                    developed
                    > > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                    > > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and
                    as
                    > > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra
                    to
                    > > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts
                    > the
                    > > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                    Zarathustra
                    > > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest
                    prepared
                    > > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this
                    loving,
                    > > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                    Elohim
                    > > Christ.
                    > >
                    > > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                    Zarathustra
                    > > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                    clarified
                    > > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom
                    ever
                    > > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                    > > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a
                    gift
                    > to
                    > > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine
                    > all
                    > > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                    > > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched
                    althought
                    > > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                    > > mysteries to us.
                    > >
                    > > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                    > > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                    live
                    > > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                    Take
                    > > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region
                    of
                    > > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this
                    I
                    > > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                    the
                    > > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world
                    over
                    > > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds,
                    Goethe,
                    > > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                    Christ
                    > > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                    > family
                    > > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                    > family!!
                    > > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                    > > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                    > > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                    > > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                    > with
                    > > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                    > > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                    titles
                    > > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative
                    of
                    > > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                    > >
                    > > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                    > science
                    > > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at
                    age
                    > 30
                    > > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting
                    confrontation
                    > > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                    > > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                    > > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say
                    we
                    > > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list
                    of
                    > > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                    places
                    > > in the bushes.
                    > >
                    > > This is all that you need to remember about the difference
                    between
                    > > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                    > >
                    >
                  • opetha
                    Dear Godot, Perhaps next time around you ll possess the great courage necessary to take on the `big picture . Please take note that your inner urge to
                    Message 9 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      "Dear Godot,

                      Perhaps next time around you'll possess the great courage necessary
                      to take on the `big picture'. Please take note that your inner urge
                      to directly wrestling with Anthroposophy has now
                      figuratively `sprinkled your soul with a light drizzle'. >
                      May the heavens ray down upon you... in sympathy, Carol"

                      The jehovah's witnesses are saying the same thing to you. This is an
                      anthroposophy site , if it was a Jung site you'd get the same
                      sectarian onanism from them. Human beings are not free of poison,
                      carol, this includes you.

                      The 'big picture' includes the collective unconscious which you think
                      is against anthroposophy. No spirit can operate without a Karmic
                      symbol in the unconscious, all spirits, phantom worlds and "eigth
                      spheres" all have a reflection in the unconscious, they cannot be
                      created without ideation.

                      A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless
                      that person's unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows
                      NOTHING about the unconscious and thinks that he is "divining"
                      himself psychically that he can kill
                      or heal someone. If he does heal, the spirit thinks that he did it by
                      his own effort. But the unconscious symbols, or archetypes, as we can
                      see by progression astrology is shown by that dead or healed
                      persons's horoscope; the aspects produced are synchronized to the
                      causel éffect. So, you see, these two worlds of unconscious and
                      conscious spirit are paralell. But because you have week intuition
                      you cannot see this, so you make up a lot of abstract rules to
                      entertain consciousness.
                      Totality--"christ etheric"---is only acheived through union of the
                      opposites. It is the resting of all spirit.

                      You have no balance and are threatened by this testament.

                      DE FABIS ABSTINUTO.
                      Godot











                      > >
                      > > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !
                      > >
                      > > Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end,
                      > we
                      > > all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I
                      > would
                      > > rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the
                      > 33
                      > > and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed
                      > horoscope
                      > > they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33,
                      > 34,
                      > > or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.
                      > >
                      > > Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                      > > saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto
                      > when
                      > > he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect
                      > lasts a
                      > > long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This
                      > system
                      > > has
                      > > never known to fail, and like your interpretations of
                      synchronicity
                      > > , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by
                      > >
                      > > (a) energy
                      > > or (b) causality
                      > >
                      > > Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was
                      > not
                      > > a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of
                      > the
                      > > SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                      > > tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the
                      > jambu
                      > > tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                      > > energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                      > > quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the
                      > centre
                      > > was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                      > > types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                      > > have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).
                      > >
                      > > Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying
                      > that
                      > > the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth
                      > by
                      > > a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from
                      > the
                      > > bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                      > > sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.
                      > >
                      > > "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                      > > -Pythagoras
                      > >
                      > > Godot.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                      <holderlin66@>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Godot wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish
                      > school
                      > > > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will
                      > use
                      > > > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                      > > > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                      > > > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the
                      stars
                      > > > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                      > > > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound
                      > your
                      > > > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                      > this
                      > > > not so?"
                      > > >
                      > > > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                      > > > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of
                      the
                      > > > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age
                      for
                      > > > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                      > > > Things."
                      > > >
                      > > > Bradford comments;
                      > > >
                      > > > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human
                      being.
                      > > > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal.
                      > But
                      > > we
                      > > > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                      > > point
                      > > > means better than the current Jungians.
                      > > >
                      > > > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age
                      > 33.
                      > > > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the
                      > world
                      > > > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                      > Declaration
                      > > > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing
                      > Religious
                      > > > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                      > > >
                      > > > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33,
                      at
                      > > > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                      > > >
                      > > > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                      > > >
                      > > > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                      > > >
                      > > > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                      > > >
                      > > > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space
                      > of
                      > > > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become
                      > one
                      > > of
                      > > > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                      > > > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                      > > three
                      > > > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                      > > > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                      > > > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                      > > >
                      > > > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                      > > >
                      > > > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                      > > > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of
                      > Biography.
                      > > > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                      > > seven-
                      > > > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the
                      > archetype
                      > > > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                      > > particularly
                      > > > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                      > The
                      > > > book goes into detail about the need to understand the
                      > importance
                      > > of
                      > > > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                      > > > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                      > > >
                      > > > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                      > chart
                      > > > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea,
                      > and
                      > > > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived
                      > and I
                      > > > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I
                      find
                      > > > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                      > > > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                      > > >
                      > > > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work
                      > and
                      > > > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain
                      > even
                      > > > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a
                      > Mercury
                      > > > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real
                      gem."
                      > > >
                      > > > Bradford concludes;
                      > > >
                      > > > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science.
                      Previously
                      > we
                      > > > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                      > > with
                      > > > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and
                      > the
                      > > > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart;
                      > the
                      > > > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                      > > > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                      > > > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find
                      the
                      > > > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33
                      > years
                      > > > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                      > > 1933
                      > > > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                      > Ahriman
                      > > > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                      > > >
                      > > > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is
                      > exposed
                      > > to
                      > > > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                      > > recrossed
                      > > > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to
                      > what
                      > > we
                      > > > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                      > elemental
                      > > > intensity and GUILT.
                      > > >
                      > > > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                      > > > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                      > > > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces
                      > that
                      > > > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I
                      > AM,
                      > > > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away
                      > from
                      > > > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                      > when
                      > > > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                      > > > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of
                      > the
                      > > > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                      > > > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic
                      math
                      > > and
                      > > > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world
                      > and
                      > > > Man.
                      > > >
                      > > > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as
                      > possible
                      > > > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                      > > > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                      > > > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                      > incubate
                      > > > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that
                      > point.
                      > > > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                      > Christ
                      > > > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language,
                      brain,
                      > > > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away,
                      > looking
                      > > > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                      > developed
                      > > > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot,
                      fully
                      > > > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and
                      > as
                      > > > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra
                      > to
                      > > > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's
                      depicts
                      > > the
                      > > > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                      > Zarathustra
                      > > > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest
                      > prepared
                      > > > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this
                      > loving,
                      > > > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                      > Elohim
                      > > > Christ.
                      > > >
                      > > > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                      > Zarathustra
                      > > > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                      > clarified
                      > > > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom
                      > ever
                      > > > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                      > > > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a
                      > gift
                      > > to
                      > > > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't
                      examine
                      > > all
                      > > > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                      > > > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched
                      > althought
                      > > > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                      > > > mysteries to us.
                      > > >
                      > > > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting
                      each
                      > > > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                      > live
                      > > > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                      > Take
                      > > > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region
                      > of
                      > > > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought
                      this
                      > I
                      > > > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                      > the
                      > > > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world
                      > over
                      > > > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds,
                      > Goethe,
                      > > > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                      > Christ
                      > > > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                      > > family
                      > > > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                      > > family!!
                      > > > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                      > > > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                      > > > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger
                      or
                      > > > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                      > > with
                      > > > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                      > > > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                      > titles
                      > > > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative
                      > of
                      > > > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                      > > >
                      > > > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                      > > science
                      > > > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at
                      > age
                      > > 30
                      > > > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting
                      > confrontation
                      > > > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                      > > > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                      > > > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd
                      say
                      > we
                      > > > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list
                      > of
                      > > > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                      > places
                      > > > in the bushes.
                      > > >
                      > > > This is all that you need to remember about the difference
                      > between
                      > > > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • holderlin66
                      opetha wrote: A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless that person s unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows NOTHING
                      Message 10 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
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                        opetha wrote:

                        "A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless
                        that person's unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows
                        NOTHING about the unconscious and thinks that he is "divining"
                        himself psychically that he can kill
                        or heal someone. If he does heal, the spirit thinks that he did it by
                        his own effort. But the unconscious symbols, or archetypes, as we can
                        see by progression astrology is shown by that dead or healed
                        persons's horoscope; the aspects produced are synchronized to the
                        causel éffect. So, you see, these two worlds of unconscious and
                        conscious spirit are paralell."

                        Bradford comments;

                        Truly, truly, not that it matters, by Jungianism is a very good
                        basis for beginners to grasp Anthroposophy. Most Anthro's have not
                        progressed further than vague Jungianism, but Jungianism is a good
                        enough approach to start off with.

                        But to the issue, Godot, the issue of healing. Now there is again an
                        area of actual healing, as in the so called miracles, and right
                        away, forget about whatever you have assumed about the miracles in
                        the past. Healing, certainly healers and healing is a wonderful
                        theory and vaguely we are all growing into healers. But Healers that
                        are given the task of producing from our core, an entirely new
                        nature with adjustments and elemental world healings, and karmic
                        balancers.

                        But the theory of healers has to have itself rooted in something.
                        That something is known as the progressive science miracles of
                        Christ. That is that Anthro Science and Resurrection Science can
                        walk you through the slow unfolding and serious deepening, step by
                        step as the Christ penetrated...the Jesus model built by Zarathustra.

                        Step by step, the vast Being of the Christ, using the developing
                        cognition of the Christ and Zarathustra's highly developed faculties
                        and Buddha's immense cosmic compassion, started out with what,
                        changing water into wine. But from each step by step, stage by stage
                        deepening of what Christ is, the I AM of all I AM's, as our I AM and
                        higher being penetrates into our being, firstly Christ taps the deep
                        forces of wine, blood and the elemental forces of the EArth. Christ
                        changes water into wine. Whole new elemental forces in the nymphs
                        and undines spring to life in clay jars.

                        Now what happens stage by stage are not miracles but the unfolding
                        in depth capacity and science of the forces of Karma cognition,
                        healing blind people, or blood issues, or the Youth of Nain, as a
                        world historical karmic adjustment that was left over from THE SON
                        OF THE WIDOW an Isis and Egyptian karmic problem that left a youth
                        in a coma, was read and adjusted by Christ.

                        We have brought on this list, on this list only recently, revealing
                        these miracles under the heading of miracles and we walked it
                        through as best we could. That is that Christ was the active Star
                        Genius, the active adjustor. Christ on Earth was an active vortex of
                        living Star force that usually exists outside of humanity. Christ
                        brought the living Stars for a short time, exactly on Earth.
                        Steiner, better than Bill Gates, knew the codes and developments of
                        I AM's and Christ could and had the power in the vortex that was
                        established around him.... a vast vortex of forces that included the
                        TWELVE, Christ was the walking reality of the immediate stars. These
                        powers are all latent in the puny i am or id and how we raise
                        ourselves to our higher beings, and eventually bring the Not I but
                        Christ I AM into us, is left for our unfolding future.

                        But my point is not that they were healing and miracles and not that
                        human beings, Jungians and biodynamics farmers, Waldorf educators,
                        and Anthro trained students aren't healers, we all are. But my point
                        was that an entirely new nature ---- This should be grasped and I
                        can't blame anyone, including Anthros for not yet grasping this, but
                        the fact is that a New Nature force rose up and will rise up not
                        from miracles but from the penetrating and clarified science of the
                        I AM going deeper and deeper into the I AM, down to the core of
                        matter. And I can tell you that penetrating the core of matter as
                        Love and Light is part of the Heisenberg problem. A problem that
                        Heisenberg and Steiner agreed upon. As the I AM is penetrated and we
                        become more and more conscious, the exactness of the science, the
                        etheric forces needed, the star forces needed, all become clear to
                        the force that had penetrated the Jesus model, once the Cosmic I AM
                        took root.

                        The science of healing, certainly has a beginning with a Jungian
                        frame of reference and Anthroposophy picks up that Jungian frame of
                        reference and more and more consolidates what is termed,
                        UNCONSCIOUS, as nothing that cannot be explored by the Spiritual
                        Scientist. Naturally the idea that Steiner was unconscious of the
                        nature forces or star forces and medical forces as he plunged into
                        his "Agricultural Course" is absurd. Naturally to imagine that the
                        hit or miss version of Edgar Casey was on par with the Conscious
                        Initiate Science of Steiner, is sweet. But to penetrate the
                        properties of the stars, and direct them down to the soil, or
                        through the organism, or into the model of higher and general
                        education, means that the unconscious model that Jungians declare as
                        part of the unexplored area of their being....that may be true for
                        us, but it was less and less true for both Zarathustra, Buddha and
                        Steiner. Mapping the Unconscious with clarity is also not getting
                        trapped in the idea of vague nonsense.

                        Myths, archetypes, you give it to me, and I'll spit it right back in
                        the direction that reveals, not the unconscious but the maps of the
                        unconscious. When we say maps, we are talking Dante and his nine
                        layers deep and nine layers upwards. When we are talking maps, we
                        are talking about the same Nine layers of the Norse Yggdrasill. When
                        we are talking maps of the unconscious we are talking about the same
                        Nine layers that were known to the Egyptians....if you want me to
                        prove it... suffice it to say, KA...etc... etc... What you insist on
                        the unconscious was the Venus steps of the Aztec and Mayan altars,
                        where the nine months of gestation and the snake shadow that runs
                        down the steps and even the number of steps up the Venus altar where
                        human sacrifice was made, were the exact number of steps as the
                        number of days it took Venus....And then the Aztec's went down into
                        the nine worlds of the underworld. These maps were not meant to be
                        relegated as unconscious.

                        Now Spiritual Science does not stand on the unconscious, it stands
                        for the progressive unfolding of deeper and deeper layers of
                        conscious penetration. That means that Nine Hierarchies, say, and
                        Nine layers of the inner Earth and Nine fields of soul development
                        in the human being are all part of the accurate, science of the maps
                        of human cognition and the worlds around us.

                        The fact that the stars play a part has also been brought up here as
                        the 12 pairs of Cranial nerves that are the literal, pin-prick and
                        compass that forms the human brain, and gives each individual a time
                        stamp and a specific compass point, a karmic talent and capcity POV
                        that is unique to the birth of each human being. This brain sheath
                        and skull as well as the Dodecahedron has been generously explored
                        here. So indeed Star movements and how the TWELVE operated around
                        the Christ as a stabalizing field for the immense Elohim, Christ, in
                        a warm field of Olive Trees and in the super warmed blood of the
                        Hebrew people with their specific Iron forces... All this was to
                        root the immense Sun Being and anchor it into Jesus.

                        Then, to top it all off, the entire cellular structure glows with
                        such a powerful light at the Transfiguration that the entire
                        mysteries of matter, down to the very core of the bones, is infused
                        and penetrated with a cosmic light. I can only thank-you profusely
                        for offering your wonderful Jungian curiosity to the stable
                        foundations of Spiritual Science. Because Anthro Jungians, which
                        there are many of us, also need to get with the program that this is
                        not the vague unconscious we are dealing with.
                      • organicethics@sympatico.ca
                        Interesting, I think clarification is being called upon. Here’s one small example: The big picture includes the collective unconscious (the Akasha) which
                        Message 11 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
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                          Interesting, I think clarification is being called upon. Here’s one small example:

                          The 'big picture' includes the collective unconscious (the Akasha) which you think
                          is against anthroposophy (your reflection). No spirit (individual soul) can operate without a Karmic symbol (imprint/spiritual configuration animated by spiritual beings) in the unconscious, all spirits, phantom worlds and "eigth spheres" all have a reflection (living reality in the occult world) in the unconscious, they cannot be created without ideation (the participation of the thinking soul/spirit).

                          Godot, Theosophy gets you deep with the typical disorganization. Anthroposophy offers the opportunity for Occult experience with the safeguards against getting ‘muddled’.

                          Godot, be my guest, go do your thing, it’s your destiny, it’s you who ultimately answers for your actions and choices.

                          But rest assured, that if you send ME psychic ‘threats’, you’ll get sunken…!

                          Have a nice evening Godot, and be nice to people, Carol.

                          >
                          > From: "opetha" <opetha@...>
                          > Date: 2006/10/06 Fri PM 02:41:21 EST
                          > To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: Amoeba contra Manu
                          >
                          > "Dear Godot,
                          >
                          > Perhaps next time around you'll possess the great courage necessary
                          > to take on the `big picture'. Please take note that your inner urge
                          > to directly wrestling with Anthroposophy has now
                          > figuratively `sprinkled your soul with a light drizzle'. >
                          > May the heavens ray down upon you... in sympathy, Carol"
                          >
                          > The jehovah's witnesses are saying the same thing to you. This is an
                          > anthroposophy site , if it was a Jung site you'd get the same
                          > sectarian onanism from them. Human beings are not free of poison,
                          > carol, this includes you.
                          >
                          > The 'big picture' includes the collective unconscious which you think
                          > is against anthroposophy. No spirit can operate without a Karmic
                          > symbol in the unconscious, all spirits, phantom worlds and "eigth
                          > spheres" all have a reflection in the unconscious, they cannot be
                          > created without ideation.
                          >
                          > A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless
                          > that person's unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows
                          > NOTHING about the unconscious and thinks that he is "divining"
                          > himself psychically that he can kill
                          > or heal someone. If he does heal, the spirit thinks that he did it by
                          > his own effort. But the unconscious symbols, or archetypes, as we can
                          > see by progression astrology is shown by that dead or healed
                          > persons's horoscope; the aspects produced are synchronized to the
                          > causel éffect. So, you see, these two worlds of unconscious and
                          > conscious spirit are paralell. But because you have week intuition
                          > you cannot see this, so you make up a lot of abstract rules to
                          > entertain consciousness.
                          > Totality--"christ etheric"---is only acheived through union of the
                          > opposites. It is the resting of all spirit.
                          >
                          > You have no balance and are threatened by this testament.
                          >
                          > DE FABIS ABSTINUTO.
                          > Godot
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > > >
                          > > > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !
                          > > >
                          > > > Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end,
                          > > we
                          > > > all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I
                          > > would
                          > > > rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the
                          > > 33
                          > > > and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed
                          > > horoscope
                          > > > they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33,
                          > > 34,
                          > > > or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.
                          > > >
                          > > > Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                          > > > saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto
                          > > when
                          > > > he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect
                          > > lasts a
                          > > > long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This
                          > > system
                          > > > has
                          > > > never known to fail, and like your interpretations of
                          > synchronicity
                          > > > , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by
                          > > >
                          > > > (a) energy
                          > > > or (b) causality
                          > > >
                          > > > Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was
                          > > not
                          > > > a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of
                          > > the
                          > > > SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                          > > > tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the
                          > > jambu
                          > > > tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                          > > > energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                          > > > quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the
                          > > centre
                          > > > was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                          > > > types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                          > > > have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).
                          > > >
                          > > > Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying
                          > > that
                          > > > the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth
                          > > by
                          > > > a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from
                          > > the
                          > > > bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                          > > > sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.
                          > > >
                          > > > "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                          > > > -Pythagoras
                          > > >
                          > > > Godot.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                          > <holderlin66@>
                          > > > wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Godot wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish
                          > > school
                          > > > > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will
                          > > use
                          > > > > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                          > > > > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                          > > > > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the
                          > stars
                          > > > > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                          > > > > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound
                          > > your
                          > > > > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                          > > this
                          > > > > not so?"
                          > > > >
                          > > > > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                          > > > > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of
                          > the
                          > > > > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age
                          > for
                          > > > > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                          > > > > Things."
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Bradford comments;
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human
                          > being.
                          > > > > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal.
                          > > But
                          > > > we
                          > > > > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                          > > > point
                          > > > > means better than the current Jungians.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age
                          > > 33.
                          > > > > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the
                          > > world
                          > > > > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                          > > Declaration
                          > > > > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing
                          > > Religious
                          > > > > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33,
                          > at
                          > > > > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                          > > > >
                          > > > > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                          > > > >
                          > > > > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space
                          > > of
                          > > > > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become
                          > > one
                          > > > of
                          > > > > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                          > > > > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                          > > > three
                          > > > > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                          > > > > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                          > > > > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                          > > > >
                          > > > > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                          > > > >
                          > > > > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                          > > > > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of
                          > > Biography.
                          > > > > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                          > > > seven-
                          > > > > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the
                          > > archetype
                          > > > > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                          > > > particularly
                          > > > > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                          > > The
                          > > > > book goes into detail about the need to understand the
                          > > importance
                          > > > of
                          > > > > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                          > > > > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                          > > chart
                          > > > > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea,
                          > > and
                          > > > > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived
                          > > and I
                          > > > > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I
                          > find
                          > > > > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                          > > > > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work
                          > > and
                          > > > > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain
                          > > even
                          > > > > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a
                          > > Mercury
                          > > > > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real
                          > gem."
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Bradford concludes;
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science.
                          > Previously
                          > > we
                          > > > > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                          > > > with
                          > > > > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and
                          > > the
                          > > > > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart;
                          > > the
                          > > > > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                          > > > > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                          > > > > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find
                          > the
                          > > > > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33
                          > > years
                          > > > > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                          > > > 1933
                          > > > > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                          > > Ahriman
                          > > > > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is
                          > > exposed
                          > > > to
                          > > > > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                          > > > recrossed
                          > > > > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to
                          > > what
                          > > > we
                          > > > > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                          > > elemental
                          > > > > intensity and GUILT.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                          > > > > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                          > > > > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces
                          > > that
                          > > > > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I
                          > > AM,
                          > > > > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away
                          > > from
                          > > > > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                          > > when
                          > > > > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                          > > > > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of
                          > > the
                          > > > > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                          > > > > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic
                          > math
                          > > > and
                          > > > > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world
                          > > and
                          > > > > Man.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as
                          > > possible
                          > > > > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                          > > > > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                          > > > > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                          > > incubate
                          > > > > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that
                          > > point.
                          > > > > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                          > > Christ
                          > > > > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language,
                          > brain,
                          > > > > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away,
                          > > looking
                          > > > > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                          > > developed
                          > > > > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot,
                          > fully
                          > > > > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and
                          > > as
                          > > > > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra
                          > > to
                          > > > > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's
                          > depicts
                          > > > the
                          > > > > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                          > > Zarathustra
                          > > > > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest
                          > > prepared
                          > > > > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this
                          > > loving,
                          > > > > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                          > > Elohim
                          > > > > Christ.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                          > > Zarathustra
                          > > > > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                          > > clarified
                          > > > > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom
                          > > ever
                          > > > > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                          > > > > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a
                          > > gift
                          > > > to
                          > > > > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't
                          > examine
                          > > > all
                          > > > > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                          > > > > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched
                          > > althought
                          > > > > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                          > > > > mysteries to us.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting
                          > each
                          > > > > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                          > > live
                          > > > > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                          > > Take
                          > > > > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region
                          > > of
                          > > > > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought
                          > this
                          > > I
                          > > > > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                          > > the
                          > > > > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world
                          > > over
                          > > > > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds,
                          > > Goethe,
                          > > > > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                          > > Christ
                          > > > > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                          > > > family
                          > > > > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                          > > > family!!
                          > > > > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                          > > > > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                          > > > > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger
                          > or
                          > > > > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                          > > > with
                          > > > > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                          > > > > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                          > > titles
                          > > > > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative
                          > > of
                          > > > > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                          > > > science
                          > > > > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at
                          > > age
                          > > > 30
                          > > > > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting
                          > > confrontation
                          > > > > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                          > > > > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                          > > > > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd
                          > say
                          > > we
                          > > > > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list
                          > > of
                          > > > > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                          > > places
                          > > > > in the bushes.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > This is all that you need to remember about the difference
                          > > between
                          > > > > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • opetha
                          Hello, OK, organicethics, but akash = unconcsious is a major blunder of childish proportions. You are embarressing. You say: But rest assured, that if you
                          Message 12 of 30 , Oct 7, 2006
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                            Hello,

                            OK, organicethics, but akash = unconcsious is a major blunder of
                            childish proportions. You are embarressing.

                            You say:

                            "But rest assured, that if you send ME psychic `threats', you'll get
                            sunken…!"

                            You have a major ego problem as well. Capital "ME"? You have sunk
                            yourself with this already. You will not attain to the things you speak
                            and read of if you think in terms of childish ego squabbles.

                            But look forward to something "red". . . . . . . . .(?)

                            temhamitnA.
                          • carol
                            Peace; man! ... get ... speak
                            Message 13 of 30 , Oct 9, 2006
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                              Peace; man!

                              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hello,
                              >
                              > OK, organicethics, but akash = unconcsious is a major blunder of
                              > childish proportions. You are embarressing.
                              >
                              > You say:
                              >
                              > "But rest assured, that if you send ME psychic `threats', you'll
                              get
                              > sunken…!"
                              >
                              > You have a major ego problem as well. Capital "ME"? You have sunk
                              > yourself with this already. You will not attain to the things you
                              speak
                              > and read of if you think in terms of childish ego squabbles.
                              >
                              > But look forward to something "red". . . . . . . . .(?)
                              >
                              > temhamitnA.
                              >
                            • carol
                              Bradford wrote: `Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point Though I
                              Message 14 of 30 , Oct 10, 2006
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                                Bradford wrote:

                                `Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate
                                and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point'


                                Though I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having
                                embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral' beauty in
                                my 32th year, (which incidentally has me still marveling), it's
                                worth noting that I know that at that time, I wasn't ripe to absorb
                                the `living' meaning of the statement concerning Zarathustra and
                                Christ.

                                (Of course, Z's soul/spirit's participation in the mystery was quite
                                THE exception)

                                For this, I was only really able to incorporate into my conscious
                                experience, in a living way, without hesitation, only recently, just
                                past my mid forties.

                                Would YOU say that this `mature' experience points towards the
                                reasons why Steiner insisted on individuals waiting until their
                                forties before assuming an `authoritative' voice vis ä vis
                                spiritual science?

                                As opposed to creating (deciphering) theories/art forms from
                                within `the lively experience of youth'.

                                Here are two distinct life stages which are spaced out and differ in
                                caracter: exceptional creative inspiration within (the fountain of)
                                youth and unwavering conscious soul experience (through having
                                processed enough complex `life' experiences and also from possessing
                                an intuitive experience of mortality)

                                Would you like to elaborate on these ideas? Carol.

                                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Godot wrote:
                                >
                                > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school
                                > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use
                                > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                                > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound your
                                > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                                this
                                > not so?"
                                >
                                > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                                > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                                > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                > Things."
                                >
                                > Bradford comments;
                                >
                                > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                                > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal. But
                                we
                                > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                point
                                > means better than the current Jungians.
                                >
                                > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age 33.
                                > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the world
                                > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                                Declaration
                                > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing Religious
                                > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                >
                                > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                                > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                >
                                > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                >
                                > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                >
                                > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                >
                                > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space of
                                > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become one
                                of
                                > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                three
                                > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                >
                                > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                >
                                > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of Biography.
                                > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                seven-
                                > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the archetype
                                > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                particularly
                                > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                                The
                                > book goes into detail about the need to understand the importance
                                of
                                > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                >
                                > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                                chart
                                > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea, and
                                > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived and
                                I
                                > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                                > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                >
                                > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work and
                                > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain even
                                > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a Mercury
                                > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."
                                >
                                > Bradford concludes;
                                >
                                > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously
                                we
                                > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                with
                                > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and the
                                > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart; the
                                > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                                > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33 years
                                > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                1933
                                > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                                Ahriman
                                > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                >
                                > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is exposed
                                to
                                > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                recrossed
                                > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to what
                                we
                                > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                                elemental
                                > intensity and GUILT.
                                >
                                > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces that
                                > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I AM,
                                > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away from
                                > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                                when
                                > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of the
                                > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math
                                and
                                > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world and
                                > Man.
                                >
                                > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as possible
                                > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                                incubate
                                > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point.
                                > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                                Christ
                                > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                                > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away, looking
                                > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                                developed
                                > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                                > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and as
                                > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra to
                                > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts
                                the
                                > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                                Zarathustra
                                > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest prepared
                                > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this loving,
                                > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                                Elohim
                                > Christ.
                                >
                                > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                                Zarathustra
                                > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                                clarified
                                > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom ever
                                > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a gift
                                to
                                > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine
                                all
                                > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched althought
                                > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                > mysteries to us.
                                >
                                > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                                > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                                live
                                > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                                Take
                                > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region of
                                > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this I
                                > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                                the
                                > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world over
                                > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds, Goethe,
                                > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                                Christ
                                > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                family
                                > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                family!!
                                > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                                > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                with
                                > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                                titles
                                > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative of
                                > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                >
                                > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                science
                                > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at age
                                30
                                > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting confrontation
                                > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say
                                we
                                > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list of
                                > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                                places
                                > in the bushes.
                                >
                                > This is all that you need to remember about the difference between
                                > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                >
                              • holderlin66
                                carol wrote: ...I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral beauty in my 32th year, (which
                                Message 15 of 30 , Oct 15, 2006
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                                  carol wrote:

                                  "...I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having
                                  embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral' beauty in
                                  my 32th year, (which incidentally has me still marveling), it's
                                  worth noting that I know that at that time, I wasn't ripe to absorb
                                  the `living' meaning of the statement concerning Zarathustra and
                                  Christ.

                                  (Of course, Z's soul/spirit's participation in the mystery was quite
                                  THE exception)

                                  For this, I was only really able to incorporate into my conscious
                                  experience, in a living way, without hesitation, only recently, just
                                  past my mid forties.

                                  Would YOU say that this `mature' experience points towards the
                                  reasons why Steiner insisted on individuals waiting until their
                                  forties before assuming an `authoritative' voice vis ä vis
                                  spiritual science?

                                  As opposed to creating (deciphering) theories/art forms from
                                  within `the lively experience of youth'.

                                  Here are two distinct life stages which are spaced out and differ in
                                  caracter: exceptional creative inspiration within (the fountain of)
                                  youth and unwavering conscious soul experience (through having
                                  processed enough complex `life' experiences and also from possessing
                                  an intuitive experience of mortality)

                                  Would you like to elaborate on these ideas? Carol."

                                  Bradford comments;

                                  Carol it is great to hear your spiritual voice. (As thought is
                                  spiritual activity). For those of us who are not Zarathustra, we can
                                  dig up example after biographical example of how our unprepared, and
                                  semi-karmically prepared I AM's start facing our instincts at the 30
                                  to the 35 mark. Distinctly we can fetch Bill Gates and we can note
                                  how his attention, mission, destiny, certainly centered on the
                                  objectification of the Global Intelligence that could well up, gush
                                  upwards from the deep gorge of untapped human vision, in
                                  connectedness everywhere. Thus all those particpating, if they have
                                  the means, would be faced with a storm of hidden information, vast
                                  fingertip libraries of humanity, Porn, and instincts, raw thought,
                                  Orwellian thought, Luciferically watered down or poison pill laced
                                  thought. Ahrimanic data, numbers, cold cruel pictures of human
                                  beastliness, the worst and most hideous beastliness in all of the
                                  beastly kingdoms.

                                  With this information it is not hard to see with senstive artistic
                                  imagination and intuition how hardened, rigidified and icy
                                  standpoints congeal to Horns. Ten horns or horned beasts that
                                  represent rigidified, forming slowly, Corporate Political systems
                                  that calcify into overall materialistic mind sets, that sit
                                  comfortably in tens of millions.

                                  When you add nano technology and how ahrimanic forces which have the
                                  intent to rip fragments of cloned humanity out of the karmic star
                                  fabric, such a fantasy as depicted in films like the "The
                                  Island" "Gattica" "Blade Runner" ...where humans are grown for
                                  replacement and organ parts, for Gold and Immortality and serve the
                                  calcification of the disease avarice, the entire Corporate anti-
                                  Sophia realm of The Whore of Babylon, isn't even hard to picture it
                                  developing out of human instincts the way John saw it.

                                  John did the best he could to describe it, rising up out of the
                                  intinctual morass of humanity, as a great congealing Anti-Human
                                  factoring.John's Whore of Babylon was the Shadow on Earth of bright
                                  Sophia Star wisdom fallen into human snares. Steiner updated and
                                  filled in some of the blanks that John left as theory and Steiner
                                  brought us into current Michael Speak which is different than
                                  Orwell's NEWSPEAK. At the Dawn of the Age of Light we were given
                                  updates and clarifications of all that was semi clouded and confused
                                  coming from human I AM events.

                                  "Newspeak was the official language of Oceania and had been devised
                                  to meet the ideological needs of Ingsoc, or English Socialism. In
                                  the year 1984 there was not as yet anyone who used Newspeak as his
                                  sole means of communication, either in speech or writing. The
                                  leading articles in The Times were written in it, but could only be
                                  carried out by a specialist. It was expected that Newspeak would
                                  have finally superseded Oldspeak (or Standard English) by about the
                                  year 2050"

                                  Seattle Times:

                                  "The use of powerful and well-placed words and images worked for
                                  INGSOC. Its slogan — war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is
                                  strength — fits like a truncheon in the cradle of shattered bone..."

                                  Bradford continues;

                                  Intelligent human beings don't have to be reminded that Orwell did
                                  us a service in writing his "1984". Grotesque human regime examples
                                  can be given that go back to France and Phillip the Fair that
                                  overturned anything to do with the feeble voice of the Magna Carta,
                                  on through the regime of the Inquisition and the torturing of the
                                  Templars giving us a mid-line of 1332 that lasted well beyond that
                                  period, to Stalin, Nazi Germany, Mao, and again the little section
                                  of time at the dawn of the 21st century, reveals once again the
                                  activiation of this Karmic Group, intent on ripping fragments of the
                                  I AM out of the Star patterns. How?

                                  Shakespeare and all that we could, if we so desired, to understand
                                  regarding why Ahriman wishes to destroy the tool of human karma by
                                  creating on Earth cloned replications that rip human karma to
                                  shreds, is simply there before us in the little poetic tragedy of
                                  the Kennedy brothers and Romeo and Juliet.

                                  "When he shall die take him and cut him out into stars and he shall
                                  make the face of heaven so fine that all the world will be in love
                                  with night and pay no worship to the garish sun." Quoting
                                  Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, Robert Kennedy at the Democratic
                                  National Convention, 8/27/64." TAKE HIM AND CUT HIM OUT INTO STARS.
                                  As we do when we cut little stars that are all the same because we
                                  have scissors and we can see how the folded paper is all linked into
                                  a whole.

                                  Bradford concludes;

                                  Carol and I agree that ripening, the immense instincts, those same
                                  instincts that rose up when the milkman in Amish PA. America, at 32,
                                  took innocent girls hostage because he could not bear to see what
                                  the I AM of his conscience knew of his own dark, dark, intent. And
                                  what happens when we humans get to know all the secrets of our dark,
                                  dark intents, that are swirling in the depths of our instincts? Bill
                                  Gates opened these vast doors to the gurgling flood gates and surge
                                  of all that is wisdom in humanity, our own Steiner Internet and
                                  Archive had to struggle with complacent Anthros and still does, to
                                  meet the vast instincts humanity carries and antidote them with
                                  Michael Speak or Michael thought.

                                  We know that adults on the path of Initiation Schooling get to know
                                  that these dark intincts are not meant to hit the intellect with
                                  their raw intensity without some preparation. That at 29 at the
                                  Saturn return, to well into the Jupiter and Saturn age of our
                                  biography we are entrusted to digest and ripen the kind of balance
                                  of wisdom that does not place the human being alone with his demons
                                  but gives him or her the tools of the Consciousness Soul.

                                  But Bill Gates opened the world to vast, vast instincts, insights,
                                  wisdom and tools....And Bill Gates was a mere 33 to 35, and if we
                                  just look at Bill Gates Mission, we understand that if we take the
                                  POF and open the mystery...Now kids, open the mystery literally
                                  means looking down into the dark well of our deepest instincts, and
                                  the roots of our I AM. What truly disturbs one and presents one with
                                  another aspect of looking down the Well of the I AM and looking at
                                  the overview and understanding the horrific courage it requires to
                                  ripen and mature... there is the example of the very well we are
                                  speaking about, in the film, "The Ring".

                                  Naturally it is but a film. It is but a depiction of how we
                                  penetrate to a most horrific mystery. A mystery that has addictive
                                  power to it. It is a disturbing little film, "The Ring". Aside from
                                  looking down the deep well and ripening our intelligence to face the
                                  problems we have opened up, (opened a can of worms) the POF and all
                                  aspects of Spiritual Science call upon the student to gain their I
                                  AM compass orientation from the depths of looking into the deepest
                                  mysteries of the Well and roots and connections to the depths of the
                                  Earth.

                                  Take for instance that the Water that Christ changes into wine that
                                  is drawn from a well, and put in clay jars, six or seven clay jars.
                                  Now Christ is going to first change this water from the deep bowels
                                  of the etheric earth, into wine. Ah but he doesn't just decide to do
                                  that, there is a wedding and a surge of joy and what we call
                                  happiness and intoxication, a point where lots of people get
                                  together, contribute and support, offer freely their gifts to some
                                  couple who is being wed. An astral surge runs through the close knit
                                  wedding guests, they make bread, contribute tables, sow fabrics, get
                                  dressed up, the farmer planted, the plants grew, the meals were
                                  cooked, the bread and flat breads were made from the flower, the
                                  donkey's turned the stone wheel that ground the wheat. Vegtables
                                  helped, gnomes helped, salamandars served the Donkey's, fires and
                                  ovens had been made and trees grew fruits and were cultivated by
                                  human hands and olives were sprinkled over the greens and the bread
                                  dipped in the olive oils. These utter basics are all contributed,
                                  not from a super-market but rather are all called forth from the
                                  treasure of old instinctive causes for celebration, community and
                                  human union. Instinctive Causes for celebration.

                                  Christ adds to this a new force where enthusiasm and joy change the
                                  entire chemical forces in the clay jars, and the water drawn from
                                  the deep regions of the Earth, in a small etheric science miracle, a
                                  new cognitive force has been changed by the I AM's participation.
                                  The I AM has plenty of sweet instincts in the well and in these
                                  days, what seems to sell are plenty of bitter forces that lurk like
                                  monsters in the well as well. Steiner was an I AM initiate and he
                                  like the rest of us was living in a science age where the I AM was
                                  not even on the table as a consideration. Steiner as an I AM
                                  initiate went down the well and brought out Biodynamics, Waldorf
                                  Education, Eurythmy and the full fledged Science of the I AM in
                                  potential.

                                  And one more thing, the film "The Ring" centers around the problem
                                  of one child who has something so potent, say, a complete 24/7 wide
                                  awake, immortal force in her that cannot die and cannot be removed,
                                  it is an acute problem that can either be understood as our immortal
                                  core or rejected and become the curse and bane of humanity by
                                  rejecting it. We cannot kill this immortal core. We can only learn
                                  to ripen our courage to grasp how each individual child can be given
                                  the tools and foundation to cope with the great thoughts of the
                                  world and navigate and be given a compass that holds to a true
                                  Spiritual North.

                                  Naturally adults who are morally ripened individual are able to
                                  educate children and one of the Miracles of the Science of the
                                  Consciousness Soul is the conscious curriculum structure of Waldorf
                                  Education. Biodynamics is another raw Science of the Consciousness
                                  Soul and a victory of the I AM in the instincts of the Earth and
                                  Stars. Waldorf Education extends into the Angelic intervention where
                                  humans can plant the tools of consciousness that will be needed so
                                  that by age 32 to 72 humanity can ripen the immense depth of the I
                                  AM. Because as Carol has said, we are not Zarathustra's. We are slow
                                  and stubborn humans.

                                  Zarathustra had consolidated most of his former faculties by age
                                  TWELVE. So Zarathustra's twelve is like our age 30 in terms of the I
                                  Am ratio of speed and growth compared to the physical body of seven
                                  years and the etheric body and the astral body and finally the speed
                                  of the I AM are all differently paced clocks in the human psyche.
                                • carol
                                  Dear Bradford, thank you for your `rich response. I especially enjoyed reading your conclusion in it s entirety. What truly disturbs one and presents one
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Oct 15, 2006
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                                    Dear Bradford, thank you for your `rich' response. I especially
                                    enjoyed reading your conclusion in it's entirety.


                                    "What truly disturbs one and presents one with
                                    another aspect of looking down the Well of the I AM and looking at
                                    the overview and understanding the horrific courage it requires to
                                    ripen and mature..."

                                    This statement touches me deeply because at the age of 22, I was
                                    subject to a sudden metamorphoses; karmic events triggered me to
                                    abruptly abandon the use of recreational drugs; I was almost
                                    instantly placed in the higher worlds without education. I used all
                                    the ingenuity, energy of my youth and all internalized experiences;
                                    to climb the great mountain of my soul's and eternal self's wish for
                                    me as if I was a penniless orphan, on hands and knees…

                                    Bradford, the heavens gave me `living' Drama for which I am
                                    eternally grateful and now, quite attached to as well. Carol.



                                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                    <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > carol wrote:
                                    >
                                    > "...I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having
                                    > embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral' beauty in
                                    > my 32th year, (which incidentally has me still marveling), it's
                                    > worth noting that I know that at that time, I wasn't ripe to absorb
                                    > the `living' meaning of the statement concerning Zarathustra and
                                    > Christ.
                                    >
                                    > (Of course, Z's soul/spirit's participation in the mystery was
                                    quite
                                    > THE exception)
                                    >
                                    > For this, I was only really able to incorporate into my conscious
                                    > experience, in a living way, without hesitation, only recently,
                                    just
                                    > past my mid forties.
                                    >
                                    > Would YOU say that this `mature' experience points towards the
                                    > reasons why Steiner insisted on individuals waiting until their
                                    > forties before assuming an `authoritative' voice vis ä vis
                                    > spiritual science?
                                    >
                                    > As opposed to creating (deciphering) theories/art forms from
                                    > within `the lively experience of youth'.
                                    >
                                    > Here are two distinct life stages which are spaced out and differ
                                    in
                                    > caracter: exceptional creative inspiration within (the fountain of)
                                    > youth and unwavering conscious soul experience (through having
                                    > processed enough complex `life' experiences and also from
                                    possessing
                                    > an intuitive experience of mortality)
                                    >
                                    > Would you like to elaborate on these ideas? Carol."
                                    >
                                    > Bradford comments;
                                    >
                                    > Carol it is great to hear your spiritual voice. (As thought is
                                    > spiritual activity). For those of us who are not Zarathustra, we
                                    can
                                    > dig up example after biographical example of how our unprepared,
                                    and
                                    > semi-karmically prepared I AM's start facing our instincts at the
                                    30
                                    > to the 35 mark. Distinctly we can fetch Bill Gates and we can note
                                    > how his attention, mission, destiny, certainly centered on the
                                    > objectification of the Global Intelligence that could well up,
                                    gush
                                    > upwards from the deep gorge of untapped human vision, in
                                    > connectedness everywhere. Thus all those particpating, if they
                                    have
                                    > the means, would be faced with a storm of hidden information, vast
                                    > fingertip libraries of humanity, Porn, and instincts, raw thought,
                                    > Orwellian thought, Luciferically watered down or poison pill laced
                                    > thought. Ahrimanic data, numbers, cold cruel pictures of human
                                    > beastliness, the worst and most hideous beastliness in all of the
                                    > beastly kingdoms.
                                    >
                                    > With this information it is not hard to see with senstive artistic
                                    > imagination and intuition how hardened, rigidified and icy
                                    > standpoints congeal to Horns. Ten horns or horned beasts that
                                    > represent rigidified, forming slowly, Corporate Political systems
                                    > that calcify into overall materialistic mind sets, that sit
                                    > comfortably in tens of millions.
                                    >
                                    > When you add nano technology and how ahrimanic forces which have
                                    the
                                    > intent to rip fragments of cloned humanity out of the karmic star
                                    > fabric, such a fantasy as depicted in films like the "The
                                    > Island" "Gattica" "Blade Runner" ...where humans are grown for
                                    > replacement and organ parts, for Gold and Immortality and serve
                                    the
                                    > calcification of the disease avarice, the entire Corporate anti-
                                    > Sophia realm of The Whore of Babylon, isn't even hard to picture
                                    it
                                    > developing out of human instincts the way John saw it.
                                    >
                                    > John did the best he could to describe it, rising up out of the
                                    > intinctual morass of humanity, as a great congealing Anti-Human
                                    > factoring.John's Whore of Babylon was the Shadow on Earth of
                                    bright
                                    > Sophia Star wisdom fallen into human snares. Steiner updated and
                                    > filled in some of the blanks that John left as theory and Steiner
                                    > brought us into current Michael Speak which is different than
                                    > Orwell's NEWSPEAK. At the Dawn of the Age of Light we were given
                                    > updates and clarifications of all that was semi clouded and
                                    confused
                                    > coming from human I AM events.
                                    >
                                    > "Newspeak was the official language of Oceania and had been
                                    devised
                                    > to meet the ideological needs of Ingsoc, or English Socialism. In
                                    > the year 1984 there was not as yet anyone who used Newspeak as his
                                    > sole means of communication, either in speech or writing. The
                                    > leading articles in The Times were written in it, but could only
                                    be
                                    > carried out by a specialist. It was expected that Newspeak would
                                    > have finally superseded Oldspeak (or Standard English) by about
                                    the
                                    > year 2050"
                                    >
                                    > Seattle Times:
                                    >
                                    > "The use of powerful and well-placed words and images worked for
                                    > INGSOC. Its slogan — war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance
                                    is
                                    > strength — fits like a truncheon in the cradle of shattered
                                    bone..."
                                    >
                                    > Bradford continues;
                                    >
                                    > Intelligent human beings don't have to be reminded that Orwell did
                                    > us a service in writing his "1984". Grotesque human regime
                                    examples
                                    > can be given that go back to France and Phillip the Fair that
                                    > overturned anything to do with the feeble voice of the Magna
                                    Carta,
                                    > on through the regime of the Inquisition and the torturing of the
                                    > Templars giving us a mid-line of 1332 that lasted well beyond that
                                    > period, to Stalin, Nazi Germany, Mao, and again the little section
                                    > of time at the dawn of the 21st century, reveals once again the
                                    > activiation of this Karmic Group, intent on ripping fragments of
                                    the
                                    > I AM out of the Star patterns. How?
                                    >
                                    > Shakespeare and all that we could, if we so desired, to understand
                                    > regarding why Ahriman wishes to destroy the tool of human karma by
                                    > creating on Earth cloned replications that rip human karma to
                                    > shreds, is simply there before us in the little poetic tragedy of
                                    > the Kennedy brothers and Romeo and Juliet.
                                    >
                                    > "When he shall die take him and cut him out into stars and he
                                    shall
                                    > make the face of heaven so fine that all the world will be in love
                                    > with night and pay no worship to the garish sun." Quoting
                                    > Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, Robert Kennedy at the Democratic
                                    > National Convention, 8/27/64." TAKE HIM AND CUT HIM OUT INTO
                                    STARS.
                                    > As we do when we cut little stars that are all the same because we
                                    > have scissors and we can see how the folded paper is all linked
                                    into
                                    > a whole.
                                    >
                                    > Bradford concludes;
                                    >
                                    > Carol and I agree that ripening, the immense instincts, those same
                                    > instincts that rose up when the milkman in Amish PA. America, at
                                    32,
                                    > took innocent girls hostage because he could not bear to see what
                                    > the I AM of his conscience knew of his own dark, dark, intent. And
                                    > what happens when we humans get to know all the secrets of our
                                    dark,
                                    > dark intents, that are swirling in the depths of our instincts?
                                    Bill
                                    > Gates opened these vast doors to the gurgling flood gates and
                                    surge
                                    > of all that is wisdom in humanity, our own Steiner Internet and
                                    > Archive had to struggle with complacent Anthros and still does, to
                                    > meet the vast instincts humanity carries and antidote them with
                                    > Michael Speak or Michael thought.
                                    >
                                    > We know that adults on the path of Initiation Schooling get to
                                    know
                                    > that these dark intincts are not meant to hit the intellect with
                                    > their raw intensity without some preparation. That at 29 at the
                                    > Saturn return, to well into the Jupiter and Saturn age of our
                                    > biography we are entrusted to digest and ripen the kind of balance
                                    > of wisdom that does not place the human being alone with his
                                    demons
                                    > but gives him or her the tools of the Consciousness Soul.
                                    >
                                    > But Bill Gates opened the world to vast, vast instincts, insights,
                                    > wisdom and tools....And Bill Gates was a mere 33 to 35, and if we
                                    > just look at Bill Gates Mission, we understand that if we take the
                                    > POF and open the mystery...Now kids, open the mystery literally
                                    > means looking down into the dark well of our deepest instincts,
                                    and
                                    > the roots of our I AM. What truly disturbs one and presents one
                                    with
                                    > another aspect of looking down the Well of the I AM and looking at
                                    > the overview and understanding the horrific courage it requires to
                                    > ripen and mature... there is the example of the very well we are
                                    > speaking about, in the film, "The Ring".
                                    >
                                    > Naturally it is but a film. It is but a depiction of how we
                                    > penetrate to a most horrific mystery. A mystery that has addictive
                                    > power to it. It is a disturbing little film, "The Ring". Aside
                                    from
                                    > looking down the deep well and ripening our intelligence to face
                                    the
                                    > problems we have opened up, (opened a can of worms) the POF and
                                    all
                                    > aspects of Spiritual Science call upon the student to gain their I
                                    > AM compass orientation from the depths of looking into the deepest
                                    > mysteries of the Well and roots and connections to the depths of
                                    the
                                    > Earth.
                                    >
                                    > Take for instance that the Water that Christ changes into wine
                                    that
                                    > is drawn from a well, and put in clay jars, six or seven clay
                                    jars.
                                    > Now Christ is going to first change this water from the deep
                                    bowels
                                    > of the etheric earth, into wine. Ah but he doesn't just decide to
                                    do
                                    > that, there is a wedding and a surge of joy and what we call
                                    > happiness and intoxication, a point where lots of people get
                                    > together, contribute and support, offer freely their gifts to some
                                    > couple who is being wed. An astral surge runs through the close
                                    knit
                                    > wedding guests, they make bread, contribute tables, sow fabrics,
                                    get
                                    > dressed up, the farmer planted, the plants grew, the meals were
                                    > cooked, the bread and flat breads were made from the flower, the
                                    > donkey's turned the stone wheel that ground the wheat. Vegtables
                                    > helped, gnomes helped, salamandars served the Donkey's, fires and
                                    > ovens had been made and trees grew fruits and were cultivated by
                                    > human hands and olives were sprinkled over the greens and the
                                    bread
                                    > dipped in the olive oils. These utter basics are all contributed,
                                    > not from a super-market but rather are all called forth from the
                                    > treasure of old instinctive causes for celebration, community and
                                    > human union. Instinctive Causes for celebration.
                                    >
                                    > Christ adds to this a new force where enthusiasm and joy change
                                    the
                                    > entire chemical forces in the clay jars, and the water drawn from
                                    > the deep regions of the Earth, in a small etheric science miracle,
                                    a
                                    > new cognitive force has been changed by the I AM's participation.
                                    > The I AM has plenty of sweet instincts in the well and in these
                                    > days, what seems to sell are plenty of bitter forces that lurk
                                    like
                                    > monsters in the well as well. Steiner was an I AM initiate and he
                                    > like the rest of us was living in a science age where the I AM was
                                    > not even on the table as a consideration. Steiner as an I AM
                                    > initiate went down the well and brought out Biodynamics, Waldorf
                                    > Education, Eurythmy and the full fledged Science of the I AM in
                                    > potential.
                                    >
                                    > And one more thing, the film "The Ring" centers around the problem
                                    > of one child who has something so potent, say, a complete 24/7
                                    wide
                                    > awake, immortal force in her that cannot die and cannot be
                                    removed,
                                    > it is an acute problem that can either be understood as our
                                    immortal
                                    > core or rejected and become the curse and bane of humanity by
                                    > rejecting it. We cannot kill this immortal core. We can only learn
                                    > to ripen our courage to grasp how each individual child can be
                                    given
                                    > the tools and foundation to cope with the great thoughts of the
                                    > world and navigate and be given a compass that holds to a true
                                    > Spiritual North.
                                    >
                                    > Naturally adults who are morally ripened individual are able to
                                    > educate children and one of the Miracles of the Science of the
                                    > Consciousness Soul is the conscious curriculum structure of
                                    Waldorf
                                    > Education. Biodynamics is another raw Science of the Consciousness
                                    > Soul and a victory of the I AM in the instincts of the Earth and
                                    > Stars. Waldorf Education extends into the Angelic intervention
                                    where
                                    > humans can plant the tools of consciousness that will be needed so
                                    > that by age 32 to 72 humanity can ripen the immense depth of the I
                                    > AM. Because as Carol has said, we are not Zarathustra's. We are
                                    slow
                                    > and stubborn humans.
                                    >
                                    > Zarathustra had consolidated most of his former faculties by age
                                    > TWELVE. So Zarathustra's twelve is like our age 30 in terms of the
                                    I
                                    > Am ratio of speed and growth compared to the physical body of
                                    seven
                                    > years and the etheric body and the astral body and finally the
                                    speed
                                    > of the I AM are all differently paced clocks in the human psyche.
                                    >
                                  • holderlin66
                                    The tell tale signs of a hot choleric character profile, who merges with fire, the fire of ideas, the candle flame, and writes a wonderful play on that flame
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Nov 19, 2006
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                                      The tell tale signs of a hot choleric character profile, who merges
                                      with fire, the fire of ideas, the candle flame, and writes a
                                      wonderful play on that flame called the Candle Maker that had
                                      ignited like a lit flame in his intellect. Bruno represents living
                                      and dying by the fiery temperament and character of the choleric
                                      thinker, doer, who feeds off resistance and human ignorance in the
                                      dawning age of mighty light that ripped through his thinking.

                                      Bruno and Waldorf education understands human realities as the basis
                                      of grasping that Bruno was born near the active sulphur spewing
                                      volcano Vesuvius and we can see how powerfully this environment
                                      infused into his blood the fire salamanders from our previous
                                      temperament studies. When we actually understand the clues of
                                      various individual destinies, we can also take into consideration
                                      where an individual grew up and was born and what impressed his
                                      early etheric development. Here we see what impressed Giordano
                                      Bruno's early etheric development.

                                      http://pages.zoom.co.uk/thuban/html/bruno.html

                                      "In the year 1548 an Italian boy was born in the little town of
                                      Nola, not far from Vesuvius. Although, he spent the greater part of
                                      his life in hostile and foreign countries he was drawn back to his
                                      home at the end of his travels and after he had written nearly
                                      twenty books.

                                      When he was thirteen years old he began to go to school at the
                                      Monastery of Saint Domenico. It was a famous place. Thomas Aquinas,
                                      himself a Dominican, had lived there and taught. Within a few years
                                      Bruno had become a Dominican priest.

                                      It was not long before the monks of Saint Dominico began to learn
                                      something about the extraordinary enthusiasm of their young
                                      colleague. He was frank, outspoken and lacking in reticence. It was
                                      not long before he got himself into trouble. It was evident that
                                      this boy could not be made to fit into Dominican grooves. One of
                                      the first things that a student has to learn is to give the teacher
                                      the answers that the teacher wants. The average teacher is the
                                      preserver of the ancient land marks. The students are his audience.
                                      They applaud but they must not innovate. They must learn to labor
                                      and to wait. It was not Bruno's behavior but his opinions that got
                                      him into trouble.

                                      He ran away from school, from his home town, from his own country
                                      and tried to find among strangers and foreigners a congenial
                                      atmosphere for his intellectual integrity that he could not find at
                                      home. It is difficult not to get sentimental about Bruno. He was a
                                      man without a country and, finally, without a church.

                                      Bruno was interested in the nature of ideas. Although the name was
                                      not yet invented it will be perfectly proper to dub Bruno as an
                                      epistemologist, or as a pioneer Semanticist. He takes fresh stock
                                      of the human mind."

                                      http://snowbarsk.autoklad.com/images/zasimovich/sculpture/5.jpg

                                      Choleric type;

                                      Now the hot blooded and fiery choleric, can be found in Emergency
                                      Rooms and in Medics everywhere. They are not always fiery red-headed
                                      carrot tops that always stare at you with 'come on, go ahead, I can
                                      take ya' faces. That fire appears in the soft embering glow of
                                      Steiner's in depth lectures, fiery Michael forces supercharged his
                                      blood, where the warmth in his Iron and Light ignited spirit flares
                                      that revealed clarity where there was gathering darkness. His words
                                      rang as consecrated light in all directions. Fission, fusion and
                                      Iron centered sun spirituality cooked Steiner's rich dishes with a
                                      warm, kindled, human blaze.

                                      But then again, on the battle front of life, saving lives, from fire
                                      men and women to police and swat teams to search and rescue on the
                                      high seas, to special forces teams, you hear the choleric
                                      shout, 'GO, GO, GO, GO!'. Adrenaline junkies can be found working
                                      rush hours in restaurants, on the cooking line in the heat of the
                                      battle, where the grills spit fire right in their faces and they
                                      spit back. Choleric fire is in all of us, even Tiger Woods breaks
                                      from his Zen mode to get really pissed off sometimes.

                                      "Some people – and all narcissists – are addicted to excitement, to
                                      the adrenaline rush, to the danger inevitably and invariably
                                      involved. They are the adrenaline junkies. All narcissists are
                                      adrenaline junkies – but not all adrenaline junkies are narcissists.

                                      Thus, an adrenaline junkie must have a supply, a feed, which always
                                      comes with invented excitement, real or invented drama or emotional
                                      drama queens that have choleric forces in their feeling life. We can
                                      understand that choleric forces or any of the other temperaments can
                                      lodge themselves, not only in the will, but in the feeling, and in
                                      the region of mental aggression. On the one hand solid Choleric
                                      types are described as closer to the ground, Napoleonic and over
                                      confident. In a pinch you know that a Choleric will cover your back,
                                      fight to the death and remain in the game though anxiety is
                                      everywhere and the odds against you are everywhere a great choleric
                                      will be the last face you see before you pass out.
                                    • holderlin66
                                      Correction fire elemental of the choleric system http://phopro.ie/earthspirit/fire_salamander.jpg http://www.matrifocus.com/IMB05/images/fire-salamander-sm.jpg
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Nov 19, 2006
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