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Re: Amoeba contra Manu

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  • Steve Hale
    ... ... The idea of synchronicity and the concept of eternal recurrence was made popular by Jung, yet he did not understand it to the degree necessary
    Message 1 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
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      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
      <snip>
      > And all these dispositions can only be based on karma, which is, even
      > in wooden psychology, a empirical and provable science. And this is
      > only provable is (for their sake) we abandon the whole notion (for
      > the time being) of spiritual energy from the planets (though you,
      > Bradford, and Steve Hale cannot do this) and reckon the idea of
      > synchroncity.

      The idea of synchronicity and the concept of eternal recurrence was
      made popular by Jung, yet he did not understand it to the degree
      necessary to make it anything more than the typical symbolic-mandalic,
      mumbo jumbo that you express with your own very typical new-age
      hodgepodge.

      Thus, synchronicity from the standpoint of spiritual science concerns
      the actual and progressive approach that is occurring right now, since
      the advent of the 5th cultural epoch, for a remembrance of our past
      lives. You'll find that experiences that come under the banner of
      Jungian synchronicity concern increasing and extended events wherein
      the sense of being here before is quite pronounced. I myself had an
      extended experience of this so-called "deja vu" back in the third grade
      when my school class went on a field trip to a railway station that had
      been maintained just as it was at the turn of the 20th century. And I
      remember being transfixed for the entire time we were there, feeling
      the sense that I had experienced this very environment before. It was
      very odd, yet quite a satisfying feeling as well.

      And what is important about the phenomena of synchronicity concerns the
      need to make contact with our past lives, as it represents the very
      substance of what will someday yield the fifth soul development; the
      anandamayakosha, or bliss sheath, which will serve to convey our
      immortality to ourselves as a certainty.

      Steve
    • carol
      Bradford spoke of the: elemental being that assists, and conforms itself to the human mood I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact a
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
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        Bradford spoke of the: "elemental being that assists, and conforms
        itself to the human mood"

        I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact
        a `predominance' of let's say the gnome elemental being within
        various individuals or is it an external expression of the soul's
        subconscious encounter with the Ahramanic being, of late:

        -Young people who extensively or not, body pierce themselves in
        unaesthetic places. Include to this, gross overuse of tattooing.

        Does Bradford have an answer?


        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
        <holderlin66@...> wrote:
        >
        > In addition to various ways to describe the human being, they
        amount
        > to several, lets say for the present, FOUR, integrated forces that
        > have their origin in the already refined substance of the stars,
        > that we term Fire, Air, Water and Earth. So the educator and
        > psychologist such as Jung and Steiner or Jungians and Steinerians,
        > have entered the workshop of human resources and the CIA has
        entered
        > the arena of education in order to wallpaper over the source of
        > these Etheric realities that each human soul brings with them when
        > they incarnate.
        >
        > In previous research I have described how the vast origins of
        active
        > and particpatory elemental beings come into service and
        incarnation
        > with the child. Only slowly, and we have described on this list
        only
        > recently how the etheric heart slowly ripens with the astral heart
        > and slowly ripens to become the central sun of the I AM heart.
        Here
        > the human personality shines and illuminates themselves down to
        the
        > core of their being. Glocker and Staley on this list have
        previously
        > researched the Etheric Heart and Robert Mason vividly provided
        > additonal research to the subject.
        >
        > But then the personality absorbs the work of the elemental beings
        > who reprsent fire - air - water and earth in ourselves, blood
        fire,
        > lung and heart beat in accord with the precession of 25,920 in
        synch
        > with breathing, water in the terms of how Christ offered that Man
        > must be born of Fire and Water or etheric lymphatic mysteries and
        > the conquering fire of unconditional Logos illuminated Love which
        > brilliantly flames in the human I AM, as that which is seriously
        > recorded as the Transfiguration. All these are mighty science
        > penetrations of the Cosmic I AM into the micro I Am of Man.
        >
        > But to build the bones, to build the blood, personality and
        > temperaments that we try to discover in certain "compatibility
        > tests" and these come in all sizes and shapes including
        the 'perfect
        > computerized Love Match" and attempt to wallpaper over the
        mysteries
        > that have been outlined above in the human personality, we need to
        > be wary of. It really means that you make no effort to build for
        > yourselves true etheric insights. So for Jungians and Spiritual
        > Science students this is the origin, the starry quarters of our
        > higher being have carried with us, active elemental worlds,
        > salamandars, sylphs, nymphs and gnomes...Buddha released all these
        > wonderful beings when he completed his emancipation of Spirit
        > Selfhood on Earth.
        >
        > Buddha and Mother/ Dream I
        >
        > "One full moon night, sleeping in the palace, the queen had a vivid
        > dream. She felt herself being carried away by four devas (spirits)
        > to Lake Anotatta in the Himalayas. After bathing her in the lake,
        > the devas clothed her in heavenly cloths, anointed her with
        > perfumes, and bedecked her with divine flowers. Soon after a white
        > elephant, holding a white lotus flower in its trunk, appeared and
        > went round her three times, entering her womb through her right
        > side. Finally the elephant disappeared and the queen awoke, knowing
        > she had been delivered an important message, as the elephant is a
        > symbol of greatness in Nepal. The next day, early in the morning,
        > the queen told the king about the dream. The king was puzzled and
        > sent for some wise men to discover the meaning of the dream."
        >
        > http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhism/lifebuddha/1lbud.htm
        >
        > Bradford sketches comments;
        >
        > Full Moon, watery mysteries, entering her womb through her right
        > side, and FOUR DEVAS...Four Devas..Four different elemental beings
        > that were the TEMPERAMENTS study for us on this list. Elemental
        > Beings who serve the growth and development of the child and in
        this
        > case these Devas are going to be freed up from having served the
        > material and personal cohesion of this incarnating being, and it is
        > very likely that in that incarnation, Buddha, will achieve what
        > Buddhahood means, rank of Angel, and not needing to borrow the
        > gnome, sylph, nymph or salamander beings, who have become immensely
        > humanized and full of compassion and literally volunteer to serve
        > when the Jesus task comes up to imbue the rich fountain of
        > compassion in this Jesus Human.
        >
        > " Paracelsus added his two cents in the Middle Ages when he
        > described human nature as being influenced by four kinds of
        spirits."
        >
        > Bradford comments;
        >
        > Four kinds of elemental spirits, four etheric personality
        assistants
        > to serve the unfolding human development, brings us into the area
        of
        > what we are seeing when we are seeing the qualities that we are
        > seeing in each human personality.
        >
        > Paracelsus was a real doctor. A real seeing human, who did his
        > homework and made his bones in mountain herbs, remedies in flowers,
        > meadows, stones and stars. Paracelsus was a real Cosmos Taught,
        > cosmos trained and probably carried insights from his past into his
        > capacities as a human being named Paracelsus. Doctors also hated
        > him.
        >
        > Humans are meant to see ever deeper into the matrix of human
        > behavior. And surprise, what happens when we come across an
        > elemental being that assists, and conforms itself to the human
        mood,
        > and mingles between the sanguine sylph like sugar high, or the
        > fiery/salamandar, run in our hot blooded adrenal forces that make
        > adrenal junkies, firemen, and ambulance drivers so
        > interesting...waiting for that FIRE. Then we have the big
        > phlegmatic, horrific fast food elemental beings that have turned
        > most Americans into chubby rolls of jiggly blubber. You can see
        > these horrific ugly elementals parade themselves in TELETUBBY land.
        > And of course the gnomish, reclusive, veiled and hooded, even to
        the
        > point of wearing hoods, melancholics.
        >
        > What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
        > friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
        > within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
        > exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
        > in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
        > taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
        > our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child
        should
        > not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
        > friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent
        ASAP "Heart
        > and Souls".
        >
        > Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
        > called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
        > people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
        > air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
        > need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
        > and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to
        understand
        > anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the
        dots
        > that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
        > Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything.
        >
        > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107091/
        >
        > "Robert Downey, Jr. plays a young man whose life is going very
        well:
        > he's engaged to Elisabeth Shue, he's got a lot of money working as
        a
        > lawyer or such...until some old friends of his drop in--imaginary
        > friends, that is. Sort of. Dead imaginary friends that only he can
        > see.
        >
        > "Many years ago, some people boarded a bus, including Charles
        Grodin
        > and Tom Sizemore. The bus flipped over a bridge and everyone died,
        > going to heaven. But then they came back down involuntarily to
        > Downey as a child and stayed with him for a few years. Every time
        > they tried to leave him, they were pulled back to him. Until he was
        > about eight, then they somehow managed to leave because they were
        > influencing his schoolwork and life (I don't remember how they got
        > out of it). Now they're back to haunt him again, because they need
        > him to help get to heaven.
        >
        > holderlin had previously researched:
        >
        > "What the true Waldorf
        > Teacher would aim for, is that all four of the fire, air, water and
        > earth, all four of the Choleric, Sanguine, Phlegmatic or
        Melancholic
        > temperaments would be of use and in balanced animation in every
        > child. A true Waldorf Teacher knows that you want maximum mobility
        > and that the child will need the buried treasures of the four
        ethers
        > as they move through all the stages of life."
        >
        > Other supportive research to advanced psychology:
        >
        > "The earliest recorded attempts of humans to explain the
        differences
        > among us are found in ancient astrology. Astrology said that the
        > way the heavens were aligned when you were born determined your
        > behavior. Astrologers used twelve constellations in the sky and
        > four major groupings, symbolized by earth, air, fire, and water.
        > They claimed that the movement of the sun, moon, and planets would
        > influence your behavior patterns or your fate.
        >
        > Thousands of years ago, stars were what they went by, and your
        > personality was determined "out there" in the heavens.
        >
        > Then, about 400 B.C., Hippocrates (the "Father of Medicine")
        > developed a concept of "humours." He introduced a radical idea that
        > said personality was determined by elements inside your body, not
        > the stars outside your body. For a well-balanced temperament, he
        > thought you needed equal amounts of the 4 body fluids: black bile,
        > yellow bile, blood, and phlegm. (Delightful, huh?)
        >
        > Hippocrates associated his "humours" with Temperament names. Many
        > people are familiar with them: Choleric, Phlegmatic, Sanguine, and
        > Melancholic. (I'm still fond of using these names sometimes.) So
        > that's when the naming game started, and everybody came up with
        > their version and their names for these four types. Paracelsus
        > added his two cents in the Middle Ages when he described human
        > nature as being influenced by four kinds of spirits. Hindu wisdom
        > proposes four central desires, and even the American Indian
        Medicine
        > Wheel features four spirit keepers similar to the Temperaments.
        >
        > If we study the ways personality have been described over the past
        > 25 centuries (there are even references in the Bible!), we discover
        > a consistent tendency for behavior to sort itself into four basic
        > activity patterns. These patterns represent the four Temperaments.
        > In other words, there are four common threads:
        >
        > Four Personality Types
        >
        > Hippocrates (450BC)
        > Sanguine
        > Melancholic
        > Phlegmatic
        > Choleric
        >
        > Plato (350BC)
        > Artistic
        > Civic
        > Scientific
        > Philosophic
        >
        > Galen (250AD)
        > Excited
        > Serious
        > Tranquil
        > Enthused
        >
        > Paracelsus (1530)
        > Changeable
        > Industrious
        > Curious
        > Devoted
        >
        > Adickes (1905)
        > Innovative
        > Traditional
        > Skeptical
        > Doctrinaire
        >
        > Spranger (1914)
        > Aesthetic
        > Economical
        > Theoretical
        > Ethical
        >
        > Kretschmer (1930)
        > Hypomanic
        > Depressive
        > Anaesthetic
        > Hyperaesthetic
        >
        > Fromm (1947)
        > Exploiting
        > Hoarding
        > Marketing
        > Receptive
        >
        > Myers (1955)
        > Realistic
        > Scheduled
        > Logical
        > Emotional
        >
        > Keirsey/Bates (1960s)
        > Dionysian
        > Epimethean
        > Promethean
        > Appolonian
        >
        > Keirsey (1970s)
        > Artisan
        > Guardian
        > Rational
        > Idealist
        >
        > "It's important to recognize that Temperament is not just about
        > observable behaviors, but rather about behavioral patterns that are
        > evidence of underlying motivators -- core psychological needs that
        > when not met drive us to get them met (and not always in a positive
        > way), core values that drive the choices we make and the positions
        > we take on things, and related talents that help us get those needs
        > met. These underlying motivators must be inferred from the observed
        > behavior patterns over time and in a variety of contexts.
        >
        > "The pattern of one's Temperament is there to begin with, like a
        DNA
        > code in its infancy, and it emerges via interaction with
        the "field"
        > or the environment. Thus we all have a core self for which the
        > template is there from birth, and then we have a developed self
        that
        > results from the interaction of the context or the situations we
        > find ourselves in and the inner push from the core to grow and
        > develop in certain ways to fulfill the pattern. The pattern will be
        > there always, even though it may sometimes look like other patterns
        > on the surface.
        >
        > "Temperament refers to the theme of the personality, the
        > configuration. It gets at the very essence of what makes us who we
        > are. Temperament identifies the basic psychological needs and core
        > values that drive our behavior and our choices. Related to these
        > basic needs are favorite talents, communication styles, approaches
        > to, and perspectives on life."
        >
        > http://www.infj.com/INFJ_Temperament.htm
        >
      • opetha
        Hello Bradford OK, I understand what you re saying if only you wouldn t go so far ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of that
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
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          Hello Bradford

          OK, I understand what you're saying if only you wouldn't go so far
          ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of that
          psychological type.

          Jung's teaching was empirical as possible, he did not want to venture
          into the realm of spiritual sciences because he would leave mankind
          behind, which is what you tend to do. I don't agree with the notion
          that analytical psychology is a "scavenger hunt", the truth is that
          Jung and Steinar are like two sides of a coin, Jung of the
          unconscious and Steinar of the concious, and that you are biased
          because you represent, not a higher thinking, but a different HALF,
          and this is an empirical and provable thing (please don't argue with
          this--I know exactly what you will say). The set of four psychologicl
          types in Jung is not based on the same type of conscious thinking as
          all those quartets you gave me, and , unfortunately, is understood
          even less by spiritual thinking other philosophies.

          [I hope this comes out well in the post....]

          THINKING
          *
          *
          *
          INTUITION****************SENSATION
          *
          *
          *
          FEELING

          These are not vague concepts as in the elements and biles.
          Jung says of your THINKING type:

          "..there is still a another form of negative thinking, which at first
          glance might not be recognized as such, and that is THEOSOPHICAL
          THINKING, which today is rapidly spreading in all parts of the world,
          presumably in reaction to materialism of the recent past.
          Theosophical thinkng has an air that is not in the least reductive
          [that is, you will not come down to my level!!--Godot] since it
          exalts everything to a transcendental and world-embracing idea. A
          dream, for instance, is no longer just a dream, but an experience 'on
          another plane.' The herethereto fact of telepathy is very simply
          explained in 'vibrations' passing from one person to another. An
          ordinary nervous complaint is explained by the fact that something
          has collided with my 'astral body'.....We have only to open a
          theosophical book to be overwhelmed by the realization that
          everything is already explained, and that 'spiritual science' has
          left no enigmas unsolved. But, at bottom, this type of thinking is
          just as negative as materialistic thinking. When the latter regards
          psychology as chemical changes in the ganglia or ther extrusion and
          retraction of cell-pseudopodia or as internal secretion, this is as
          much a superstition as theosophy. The only thing is that theosophy
          reduces everything to eastern metaphysics.....Not only are both
          methods of explanation futile, they are actually destructive, because
          by diverting interest away from the main issue....to imaginary
          vibrations, they hamper any serious investigation of the problem by
          bogus explanation. Either kind of thinking is sterile and
          sterilizing. Its negative quality is due to the fact it is so
          indescribably cheap." -Psychological Types, X.2

          This cross of function types is an innate truth, not a conditioned
          one by meditation which any other quaternary of types would be.
          The "theosophical" thinking is not the I AM you think it is because
          it is the outer arm of this cross. You and Steve have written so
          much, but to me it doesn't quite speak my language, you use many
          metpahors and "force" words to prove you are excilerated, but in bias
          you will not reckon with the other half of mankind, like lucifer.
          Don't get me wrong, I am one wanting to develop my spiritual
          integrity, but it doesn't come quite as you think.

          You call me a "scavenger" and Mr. Hale says my talking is "new-age
          hodge-podge" (hang on !!--I thought you were the new-agers), which
          shows you are very combative in your own personalitistic ways and
          defensive of your drives, almost adolescent--and I have nothing
          against this, I will try to be fair but I'm still worried that you
          are UNABLE to be; and only stress this because, afterall, if you want
          to communicate with mankind you had better be considerate and not
          talk in the language you do of warped "power-words" to your own kind,
          and to your paying audience, because "mankind", as you maybe use that
          term, will NOT listen to you if you go so far ahead of them. What the
          other half of us CAN experience is our own unknown soul, which is the
          empirical unconscious (to reiterate Jung and Steinar are quite the
          opposites, Steinar was equally right because he had no
          unconsciousness, and what he did know of unconsciousness was
          conditioned by conscious metaphor and not by deductive reasoning---
          i.e. the dream-world is the "macrocosm" and not an instancing of sub-
          conscious complexes).

          A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school and
          shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use him as
          an example of someone who can be cured by analytical psychology, but
          NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the leaps of faith and
          consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars until he confronts
          himself on the Earth, no matter how "scavangering" this will be to
          him. You want to propound your science through cosmic rhetoric more
          than you want to heal, is this not so?

          Other (fundamental) thinking types with this type of "be all end all"
          thinking include Hitler and, on TV today, Docter Zakir Naik of the
          IRF and who claims that all sciences were written in the Q'URAN
          before they were discovered, proving God's greatness (and also that
          the Q'URAN is the most-divine poetry ever written !!). Both are great
          extraverted talkers because they BELEIVE 100% what they are saying is
          true, and the audience get cosmic about this, and propaganda rears
          its head. The unconsciouis has innate and fundamental referencing
          that can counteract any rarified thinking--but you anthroposophists
          cannot understand my language because the feeling-tone behnd yours.

          I take it my use of the word "karma" to you was a scavaging. I could
          equally say the same of Steinar's use of the word "unconscious". The
          natal horoscope progressed at 1/360th of its normal speed shows the
          symbols that, bad or good, will be activated in our course of life.
          These are synchronicities in so far that they give shape, heiroglyp
          and/or colour to unconscious archetypes without such, and give them a
          linear qualification. This is the best argument for the "spiritual
          sciences", this method of "psychological-astrology", because it is
          provable on the subjective plane and not on the objective. It is not
          scavaging in the sense that Jung is stealing something from your
          school, you have to be considerate and pay heed to this your opposite
          and compensator. The mandala was not new-age hodge-podge, it was a
          glimpse into the innateness of that horoscope and its centre as the
          SELF (or Brahm, the aura eminating from a plant was just one of the
          baised illusions Buddha destroyed).

          I would love to see aura and travel on the astral planet like you
          might do (I have already innitiated SOME magical virtues, still with
          the empirical unconsious undernieth, and still with my consideration
          of your mind set and abandining my own at those instances) but if I
          advance in this area it may not be because you have taught me but
          because I have taught myself. It may be because I am British and have
          not the type of whispy heads that you Americans have, but I cannot
          affiliate myself with something so biased and off centre and that is
          too depserate to convince like olf Adolf and Doctor Naik. The astral
          rewards are one thing--yes, I know that, but the abandonement of the
          emprirical unconscious (with mankind aong with it) is quite another.
          I will stick to my raja yoga and destroy your lucifer AND my ahriman.

          With love,
          Godot.








          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@> wrote:
          > <snip>
          > > And all these dispositions can only be based on karma, which is,
          even
          > > in wooden psychology, a empirical and provable science. And this
          is
          > > only provable is (for their sake) we abandon the whole notion
          (for
          > > the time being) of spiritual energy from the planets (though you,
          > > Bradford, and Steve Hale cannot do this) and reckon the idea of
          > > synchroncity.
          >
          > The idea of synchronicity and the concept of eternal recurrence was
          > made popular by Jung, yet he did not understand it to the degree
          > necessary to make it anything more than the typical symbolic-
          mandalic,
          > mumbo jumbo that you express with your own very typical new-age
          > hodgepodge.
          >
          > Thus, synchronicity from the standpoint of spiritual science
          concerns
          > the actual and progressive approach that is occurring right now,
          since
          > the advent of the 5th cultural epoch, for a remembrance of our past
          > lives. You'll find that experiences that come under the banner of
          > Jungian synchronicity concern increasing and extended events
          wherein
          > the sense of being here before is quite pronounced. I myself had
          an
          > extended experience of this so-called "deja vu" back in the third
          grade
          > when my school class went on a field trip to a railway station that
          had
          > been maintained just as it was at the turn of the 20th century.
          And I
          > remember being transfixed for the entire time we were there,
          feeling
          > the sense that I had experienced this very environment before. It
          was
          > very odd, yet quite a satisfying feeling as well.
          >
          > And what is important about the phenomena of synchronicity concerns
          the
          > need to make contact with our past lives, as it represents the very
          > substance of what will someday yield the fifth soul development;
          the
          > anandamayakosha, or bliss sheath, which will serve to convey our
          > immortality to ourselves as a certainty.
          >
          > Steve
          >
        • holderlin66
          carol wrote: I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact a `predominance of let s say the gnome elemental being within various individuals
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
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            carol wrote:

            "I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact
            a `predominance' of let's say the gnome elemental being within
            various individuals or is it an external expression of the soul's
            subconscious encounter" encounters....

            Bradford comments;

            Tatoo's are fads. But the attraction to being considered 'special'
            because you have a groovy tattoo is based mostly on the serious
            melancholic temperament. However because of the nature of
            faddishness, it is 'cool' to have body this and body that which is
            meaningless to the soul content. The soul content that these
            abstract soul scavengers think is cool is merely a fad like high
            school girls wearing very short navel exposed tee-shirts. I'm a
            teacher for heaven's sake, this is all unessential soul trivia. Just
            like rap, and baggy shorts and dressin like some punk gangsta. It
            means literally ' 0 '. None of these fads have secured any type of
            soul perception.

            The human soul when it comes into incarnation brings with it a
            suitcase full of fire, air, water, earth, personality features and
            traits that are true elemental servants. These eventually become
            modified well shaped plastic or mobile features of the animated
            personality. Once again please note, these beings are part of what
            we carry within our I AM and karmic package when we incarnate. These
            beings assist us and become integrated into our personality make-up
            until what we see as the type of personality, with their four
            traits, no longer reveals to the eye the elemental, yet the
            elemental is in there.

            Now gnomish, and Ahrimanic greys and predominating depressive
            elemental beings that form the melancholic dominating personality
            trait can be part of the actual ahrimanized and corrupted inner
            vision of the soul that are felt when there are rumors of alien
            Abductees. However the outline I am offering is the solid basis of
            what we carry from the spiritual world into physical incarnation and
            what Buddha carried and freed up and transformed and what we are
            assigned to transform. Part of our job is to humanized and free up
            these elemental servants as Buddha did, when we complete our
            development as humans. We don't get released from incarnation, from
            physical matter if have not acknowledged and learned of these four
            beings and forces in our nature as operative cosmic servants.

            Sanguine Type:

            The Sylph and the sylph type lends the personality terms like dumb
            blonde or shop till you drop joy boys and sunshine girls. Swooping,
            lightness, fun loving and generally in a sunshine mood, the sylph
            would tend to lift the human spirit, bring a smile to a sad face and
            when a little child is in a crying jag, sometimes it is the colorful
            sylph aspect of hidden temperament that must come out of the child
            and the child also gets to know, learns to get to know what that
            laughter triggers and how to understand laughter as a visitation and
            entrance into the sylph style of behavior that has to do with Air
            and Light. Air, light and joy as part of the old sylph being that
            has come with the child from the spiritual world, as part of its
            etheric foundation and can be used as part of its personality trait
            has also a downside.

            Sometimes when this personality trait dominates, we understand that
            the personality, the human personality is being protected by the
            sylph and the human being hides within the sylph light because the
            darkness all around the soul damages the human child and the
            darkness around that it saw when a child forced it to hide within
            the Sylph lightness, the unbearable lightness of being. And we can
            see how this lightness, lack of depth becomes a sort of personality
            crutch for the child as he/she develops. A place where no hard
            thoughts harm and people are given pleasure instead of pain to
            disguise their hurts. A lot of the sylph or sanguine natured adults
            have arisen due to childhood abuses in one way or another.

            http://www.wam.umd.edu/~llsp/sylph.jpg

            holderlin wrote:

            "What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
            friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
            within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
            exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
            in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
            taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
            our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child should
            not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
            friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent ASAP "Heart
            and Souls".

            "Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
            called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
            people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
            air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
            need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
            and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to understand
            anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the dots
            that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
            Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything."

            Phlegmatic Type:

            The water nixie and watery nymph enjoices the juices, the tastes and
            the good meals of sitting at fine dining. How do the wines taste?
            What springs and vineyards yield the finest wines? What makes you
            salivate and gets the Water Nymph/Phlegmatic side of your nature to
            rise up out of your physical body, your physical stone base and
            lends you the mood he/she brings forward?

            Teletubby's are the obnoxious little demon nymphs that have been
            fostered by a fast food, phat America, false saliviating taste-bud
            blubber, bouncing, over weight America, from children to their flaky
            trailer park parents, have been made into numbed, television rotted,
            staring vegtables, which is to insult the fine work that the water
            spirits do in vegetables.

            Who fooled the Nymph? Who has polluted her cosmic tastes, our
            intimate human cosmic waters, that Thetis, mother of Achilles is
            famous for? Monsanto and fully failed, misleading and whored taste-
            buds that have marketed supermarket crap that children must eat as
            fads, phat, and foul corporate profits to sustain their lies. I can
            tell you that Sanguine, Choleric and Melancholic natures are more
            prized in our fast paced society than the phlegmatic, steady, nearly
            photographic brain of the overweight phlegmatic is.

            http://snowbarsk.autoklad.com/images/zasimovich/sculpture/5.jpg

            Choleric type;

            Now the hot blooded and fiery choleric, can be found in Emergency
            Rooms and in Medics everywhere. They are not always fiery red-headed
            carrot tops that always stare at you with 'come on, go ahead, I can
            take ya' faces. That fire appears in the soft embering glow of
            Steiner's in depth lectures, fiery Michael forces supercharged his
            blood, where the warmth in his Iron and Light ignited spirit flares
            that revealed clarity where there was gathering darkness. His words
            rang as consecrated light in all directions. Fission, fusion and
            Iron centered sun spirituality cooked Steiner's rich dishes with a
            warm, kindled, human blaze.

            But then again, on the battle front of life, saving lives, from fire
            men and women to police and swat teams to search and rescue on the
            high seas, to special forces teams, you hear the choleric
            shout, 'GO, GO, GO, GO!'. Adrenaline junkies can be found working
            rush hours in restaurants, on the cooking line in the heat of the
            battle, where the grills spit fire right in their faces and they
            spit back. Choleric fire is in all of us, even Tiger Woods breaks
            from his Zen mode to get really pissed off sometimes.

            "Some people – and all narcissists – are addicted to excitement, to
            the adrenaline rush, to the danger inevitably and invariably
            involved. They are the adrenaline junkies. All narcissists are
            adrenaline junkies – but not all adrenaline junkies are narcissists.

            Thus, an adrenaline junkie must have a supply, a feed, which always
            comes with invented excitement, real or invented drama or emotional
            drama queens that have choleric forces in their feeling life. We can
            understand that choleric forces or any of the other temperaments can
            lodge themselves, not only in the will, but in the feeling, and in
            the region of mental aggression. On the one hand solid Choleric
            types are described as closer to the ground, Napoleonic and over
            confident. In a pinch you know that a Choleric will cover your back,
            fight to the death and remain in the game though anxiety is
            everywhere and the odds against you are everywhere a great choleric
            will be the last face you see before you pass out.

            When unable to secure "normal" Narcissistic Supply – adulation,
            recognition, fame, celebrity, notoriety, infamy, affirmation, or
            mere attention – the adrenaline junkie resorts to "abnormal"
            attention grabbers. He tries to obtain his drug – the thrills, the
            good feeling that comes with adrenalin – by behaving recklessly, by
            succumbing to substance abuse, or by living dangerously.

            Such narcissists – faced with a chronic state of deficient
            Narcissistic Supply – become criminals, or race drivers, or
            gamblers, or soldiers, or investigative journalists. They defy
            authority. They avoid safety, routine and boredom – no safe sex, no
            financial prudence, no stable marriage or career. They become
            peripatetic, change jobs, or lovers, or vocations, or avocations, or
            residences, or friendships often.

            But sometimes even these extreme and demonstrative steps are not
            enough. When confronted with a boring, routine existence – with a
            chronic and permanent inability to secure Narcissistic Supply and
            excitement – these people compensate by inventing thrills where
            there are none."

            http://phopro.ie/earthspirit/fire_salamander.jpg

            http://www.matrifocus.com/IMB05/images/fire-salamander-sm.jpg

            Melancholic type;

            The Melancholic earth dominated, nihilistic, Columbine depression,
            Nietzsche fixated, hooded rapper has a sharp wit. Often sees the
            bitter edges, the flaws, the inconsistencies and certainly
            gravitates and finds its deepest kindled light out of darkness. You
            could look at how Rembrandt took the darkness and found in it golden
            hues...as highly interesting.

            The compression of darkness and the usual Adam's family values of
            tatoos, dark flesh piercings, pain, S&M, torture, the daughter in
            the film "BeetleJuice" dressed in black and seeing dead people bring
            the soul into connection with the current cultural gesture of
            XXXXXtreme melancholic and enchained gnomes who must be sentenced,
            as the roots of trees, and mines are strip mined, and earth is
            carved up, the gnomes are sucked into a horrificaly depressing
            computerization of human intellectual forces.

            The Earth spirit gnome, ruled the biting wit of intellectual forces
            and now lurking in the mines and dark regions of the soul are
            Ahriman's horrific hordes. And sucked into the electro magnitic
            sphere, gnomes are compressed into Internet darkness where humans
            fail to see the depth and light that is in the intellect, the same
            as they refuse and fail to see the depths and ROOTS of the universe,
            the soul and the Spirit as the roots of a great Tree of the I AM,
            Yggdrassil. Wagner and Tolkien felt the dark tug of the gnome
            community, wiped out and forced into elemental slave labor within
            the the electronic, hi-tech communications systems, inventions and
            military experimentation.

            Vast bacteria, watery, laser, and hi-tech atomic table forces are
            being whored, harnassed demonized in labs and forced into elemental
            labor and etheric torture to bring epidemics, annhilation by fire,
            radiation, and disrupting earthquakes, tidal waves and many of them
            now merely human generated for selfless political ends from the far
            west. Because the human sylph, nymph, salamander and gnome forces in
            the healing processes of the human being are being trained literally
            as Tolkien described how the elves became Orcs. But the joke is on
            humanity. For these beings are literally ripping into the cosmic
            human model and the safeguards of the human healing systems by labs
            that the American people are paying for so that the surface
            intellect can remain in its ahrimanized slumber. This was not the
            Agel of Light our children came to participate in, but the its
            horrific opposite and it is U, U who sit there and read these things
            that have failed to IMAGINE clearly what is going on.

            This mighty potential and sacrifice of the melancholic gomes, where
            humans cannot think and they merely become the darkness, become
            nihilistic, become dangerous in their own stewing darkness, enjoy
            their selfish dangers, dark drugs and brooding faddishness...shames
            Hamlet and Hamlet is our own Consciousness Soul. Our Consciousness
            Soul does have a gesture and certainly the black suited Dr. Steiner
            and that sort of lecture fad, wouldn't have our usual melancholics
            and deep thinkers, now parading around in Hawaiian shirts now would
            they? Well they should play against type and certainly Steiner would
            not be all tatooed with dark coal tints under his eyes for that
            vampire effect, if he walked into a room today. But Anthros still
            see it that way. Anthros hardly would trust an infusion of happy
            rollicking Michaelites pulling up in their Harley's to give
            conferences and talks. They have to be conservative, sober and
            unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings
            latent in the Anthro, because Anthros just want to gawk and stare at
            the old b/w photos of Der Doctor, instead of revealing the bubbling
            life of the new Etheric Worlds. Eh?

            http://www.jazlink.com/jazlbums/England/HPIM0074.sized.jpg

            http://www.sculpturebyspirit.com/door.html
          • Steve Hale
            ... that ... Yes, Bradford writes alot, just as you write alot. Actually, I don t see much of a difference. Now, I try to write in brief because it serves to
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
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              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello Bradford
              >
              > OK, I understand what you're saying if only you wouldn't go so far
              > ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of
              that
              > psychological type.

              Yes, Bradford writes alot, just as you write alot. Actually, I
              don't see much of a difference. Now, I try to write in brief
              because it serves to catch the eye, and maybe gets a response, which
              is what I look for. I said you wrote "hodgepodge" because you were
              pulling out all stops to write 'new-age' dribble, which some
              possibly could have found offensive. In fact, I found your initial
              post offensive and arrogant. And that is why I didn't respond to
              indications of Steinerian concepts from his "Foundations of
              Esotericism" lectures from 1905.

              You are quite right in that Jung and Steiner represent a polarity;
              just as Kant and Steiner represent a polarity from a philosophical
              standpoint. This has all been gone over before, on that other
              little ship called the s.s. minnow. Jung is to psychology what Kant
              is to philosophy in terms of limits to knowledge and perception.
              And Rudolf Steiner overcame these bounds for those that seek to
              overcome such limits in order to go further in terms of knowledge
              and being.

              Esotericism and its relationship to modern thought is what interests
              me. Spiritual science exists in order to extend thinking and
              knowledge into the causal realm that stands behind external
              phenomena. But you have to take up the study in earnest, just as
              you have taken up your study of Jungian principles according to a
              collective unconsciousness that is quite attractive to people today
              because it leaves the mysteries and enigmas alone; except to engage
              in conservative speculation about what things mean in the greater
              course of events.

              Thus, synchonicity and its phenomenal representation is a fact that
              only spiritual science can truly penetrate into its causality as an
              increasing experience of spiritual necessity. I didn't want to lose
              that important point.

              Steve
            • carol
              Thanks so much! As for this; They have to be conservative, sober and unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings latent in the Anthro,
              Message 6 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
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                Thanks so much!

                As for this;
                They have to be conservative, sober and
                unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings
                latent in the Anthro, because Anthros just want to gawk and stare at
                the old b/w photos of Der Doctor, instead of revealing the bubbling
                life of the new Etheric Worlds. Eh?

                I beleive it's changing with the younger generation's influence but
                I agree with you, I was puzzled by it a few decades ago when I
                apprached the 'community'; and also worth mentioning is the setbacks
                at remaining dependent on group development. You're taliking to a
                former minor Gothic who lived by Anthroposophy but could never feel
                safe nor individual creative freedom anywhere near the 'community'.

                I have the impression that it's changing; the few Anthros that I do
                know have matured and are past their pretentious and competitive
                years. Like what occurs within the general population, once you get
                past a certain age, it's easier to appreciate one another.

                Carol.




                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                >
                > carol wrote:
                >
                > "I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact
                > a `predominance' of let's say the gnome elemental being within
                > various individuals or is it an external expression of the soul's
                > subconscious encounter" encounters....
                >
                > Bradford comments;
                >
                > Tatoo's are fads. But the attraction to being considered 'special'
                > because you have a groovy tattoo is based mostly on the serious
                > melancholic temperament. However because of the nature of
                > faddishness, it is 'cool' to have body this and body that which is
                > meaningless to the soul content. The soul content that these
                > abstract soul scavengers think is cool is merely a fad like high
                > school girls wearing very short navel exposed tee-shirts. I'm a
                > teacher for heaven's sake, this is all unessential soul trivia.
                Just
                > like rap, and baggy shorts and dressin like some punk gangsta. It
                > means literally ' 0 '. None of these fads have secured any type
                of
                > soul perception.
                >
                > The human soul when it comes into incarnation brings with it a
                > suitcase full of fire, air, water, earth, personality features and
                > traits that are true elemental servants. These eventually become
                > modified well shaped plastic or mobile features of the animated
                > personality. Once again please note, these beings are part of what
                > we carry within our I AM and karmic package when we incarnate.
                These
                > beings assist us and become integrated into our personality make-
                up
                > until what we see as the type of personality, with their four
                > traits, no longer reveals to the eye the elemental, yet the
                > elemental is in there.
                >
                > Now gnomish, and Ahrimanic greys and predominating depressive
                > elemental beings that form the melancholic dominating personality
                > trait can be part of the actual ahrimanized and corrupted inner
                > vision of the soul that are felt when there are rumors of alien
                > Abductees. However the outline I am offering is the solid basis of
                > what we carry from the spiritual world into physical incarnation
                and
                > what Buddha carried and freed up and transformed and what we are
                > assigned to transform. Part of our job is to humanized and free up
                > these elemental servants as Buddha did, when we complete our
                > development as humans. We don't get released from incarnation,
                from
                > physical matter if have not acknowledged and learned of these four
                > beings and forces in our nature as operative cosmic servants.
                >
                > Sanguine Type:
                >
                > The Sylph and the sylph type lends the personality terms like dumb
                > blonde or shop till you drop joy boys and sunshine girls. Swooping,
                > lightness, fun loving and generally in a sunshine mood, the sylph
                > would tend to lift the human spirit, bring a smile to a sad face
                and
                > when a little child is in a crying jag, sometimes it is the
                colorful
                > sylph aspect of hidden temperament that must come out of the child
                > and the child also gets to know, learns to get to know what that
                > laughter triggers and how to understand laughter as a visitation
                and
                > entrance into the sylph style of behavior that has to do with Air
                > and Light. Air, light and joy as part of the old sylph being that
                > has come with the child from the spiritual world, as part of its
                > etheric foundation and can be used as part of its personality trait
                > has also a downside.
                >
                > Sometimes when this personality trait dominates, we understand that
                > the personality, the human personality is being protected by the
                > sylph and the human being hides within the sylph light because the
                > darkness all around the soul damages the human child and the
                > darkness around that it saw when a child forced it to hide within
                > the Sylph lightness, the unbearable lightness of being. And we can
                > see how this lightness, lack of depth becomes a sort of personality
                > crutch for the child as he/she develops. A place where no hard
                > thoughts harm and people are given pleasure instead of pain to
                > disguise their hurts. A lot of the sylph or sanguine natured adults
                > have arisen due to childhood abuses in one way or another.
                >
                > http://www.wam.umd.edu/~llsp/sylph.jpg
                >
                > holderlin wrote:
                >
                > "What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
                > friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
                > within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
                > exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
                > in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
                > taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
                > our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child
                should
                > not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
                > friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent
                ASAP "Heart
                > and Souls".
                >
                > "Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
                > called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
                > people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
                > air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
                > need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
                > and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to
                understand
                > anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the
                dots
                > that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
                > Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything."
                >
                > Phlegmatic Type:
                >
                > The water nixie and watery nymph enjoices the juices, the tastes
                and
                > the good meals of sitting at fine dining. How do the wines taste?
                > What springs and vineyards yield the finest wines? What makes you
                > salivate and gets the Water Nymph/Phlegmatic side of your nature to
                > rise up out of your physical body, your physical stone base and
                > lends you the mood he/she brings forward?
                >
                > Teletubby's are the obnoxious little demon nymphs that have been
                > fostered by a fast food, phat America, false saliviating taste-bud
                > blubber, bouncing, over weight America, from children to their
                flaky
                > trailer park parents, have been made into numbed, television
                rotted,
                > staring vegtables, which is to insult the fine work that the water
                > spirits do in vegetables.
                >
                > Who fooled the Nymph? Who has polluted her cosmic tastes, our
                > intimate human cosmic waters, that Thetis, mother of Achilles is
                > famous for? Monsanto and fully failed, misleading and whored taste-
                > buds that have marketed supermarket crap that children must eat as
                > fads, phat, and foul corporate profits to sustain their lies. I can
                > tell you that Sanguine, Choleric and Melancholic natures are more
                > prized in our fast paced society than the phlegmatic, steady,
                nearly
                > photographic brain of the overweight phlegmatic is.
                >
                > http://snowbarsk.autoklad.com/images/zasimovich/sculpture/5.jpg
                >
                > Choleric type;
                >
                > Now the hot blooded and fiery choleric, can be found in Emergency
                > Rooms and in Medics everywhere. They are not always fiery red-
                headed
                > carrot tops that always stare at you with 'come on, go ahead, I can
                > take ya' faces. That fire appears in the soft embering glow of
                > Steiner's in depth lectures, fiery Michael forces supercharged his
                > blood, where the warmth in his Iron and Light ignited spirit flares
                > that revealed clarity where there was gathering darkness. His words
                > rang as consecrated light in all directions. Fission, fusion and
                > Iron centered sun spirituality cooked Steiner's rich dishes with a
                > warm, kindled, human blaze.
                >
                > But then again, on the battle front of life, saving lives, from
                fire
                > men and women to police and swat teams to search and rescue on the
                > high seas, to special forces teams, you hear the choleric
                > shout, 'GO, GO, GO, GO!'. Adrenaline junkies can be found working
                > rush hours in restaurants, on the cooking line in the heat of the
                > battle, where the grills spit fire right in their faces and they
                > spit back. Choleric fire is in all of us, even Tiger Woods breaks
                > from his Zen mode to get really pissed off sometimes.
                >
                > "Some people – and all narcissists – are addicted to excitement, to
                > the adrenaline rush, to the danger inevitably and invariably
                > involved. They are the adrenaline junkies. All narcissists are
                > adrenaline junkies – but not all adrenaline junkies are
                narcissists.
                >
                > Thus, an adrenaline junkie must have a supply, a feed, which always
                > comes with invented excitement, real or invented drama or emotional
                > drama queens that have choleric forces in their feeling life. We
                can
                > understand that choleric forces or any of the other temperaments
                can
                > lodge themselves, not only in the will, but in the feeling, and in
                > the region of mental aggression. On the one hand solid Choleric
                > types are described as closer to the ground, Napoleonic and over
                > confident. In a pinch you know that a Choleric will cover your
                back,
                > fight to the death and remain in the game though anxiety is
                > everywhere and the odds against you are everywhere a great choleric
                > will be the last face you see before you pass out.
                >
                > When unable to secure "normal" Narcissistic Supply – adulation,
                > recognition, fame, celebrity, notoriety, infamy, affirmation, or
                > mere attention – the adrenaline junkie resorts to "abnormal"
                > attention grabbers. He tries to obtain his drug – the thrills, the
                > good feeling that comes with adrenalin – by behaving recklessly, by
                > succumbing to substance abuse, or by living dangerously.
                >
                > Such narcissists – faced with a chronic state of deficient
                > Narcissistic Supply – become criminals, or race drivers, or
                > gamblers, or soldiers, or investigative journalists. They defy
                > authority. They avoid safety, routine and boredom – no safe sex, no
                > financial prudence, no stable marriage or career. They become
                > peripatetic, change jobs, or lovers, or vocations, or avocations,
                or
                > residences, or friendships often.
                >
                > But sometimes even these extreme and demonstrative steps are not
                > enough. When confronted with a boring, routine existence – with a
                > chronic and permanent inability to secure Narcissistic Supply and
                > excitement – these people compensate by inventing thrills where
                > there are none."
                >
                > http://phopro.ie/earthspirit/fire_salamander.jpg
                >
                > http://www.matrifocus.com/IMB05/images/fire-salamander-sm.jpg
                >
                > Melancholic type;
                >
                > The Melancholic earth dominated, nihilistic, Columbine depression,
                > Nietzsche fixated, hooded rapper has a sharp wit. Often sees the
                > bitter edges, the flaws, the inconsistencies and certainly
                > gravitates and finds its deepest kindled light out of darkness. You
                > could look at how Rembrandt took the darkness and found in it
                golden
                > hues...as highly interesting.
                >
                > The compression of darkness and the usual Adam's family values of
                > tatoos, dark flesh piercings, pain, S&M, torture, the daughter in
                > the film "BeetleJuice" dressed in black and seeing dead people
                bring
                > the soul into connection with the current cultural gesture of
                > XXXXXtreme melancholic and enchained gnomes who must be sentenced,
                > as the roots of trees, and mines are strip mined, and earth is
                > carved up, the gnomes are sucked into a horrificaly depressing
                > computerization of human intellectual forces.
                >
                > The Earth spirit gnome, ruled the biting wit of intellectual forces
                > and now lurking in the mines and dark regions of the soul are
                > Ahriman's horrific hordes. And sucked into the electro magnitic
                > sphere, gnomes are compressed into Internet darkness where humans
                > fail to see the depth and light that is in the intellect, the same
                > as they refuse and fail to see the depths and ROOTS of the
                universe,
                > the soul and the Spirit as the roots of a great Tree of the I AM,
                > Yggdrassil. Wagner and Tolkien felt the dark tug of the gnome
                > community, wiped out and forced into elemental slave labor within
                > the the electronic, hi-tech communications systems, inventions and
                > military experimentation.
                >
                > Vast bacteria, watery, laser, and hi-tech atomic table forces are
                > being whored, harnassed demonized in labs and forced into elemental
                > labor and etheric torture to bring epidemics, annhilation by fire,
                > radiation, and disrupting earthquakes, tidal waves and many of them
                > now merely human generated for selfless political ends from the far
                > west. Because the human sylph, nymph, salamander and gnome forces
                in
                > the healing processes of the human being are being trained
                literally
                > as Tolkien described how the elves became Orcs. But the joke is on
                > humanity. For these beings are literally ripping into the cosmic
                > human model and the safeguards of the human healing systems by labs
                > that the American people are paying for so that the surface
                > intellect can remain in its ahrimanized slumber. This was not the
                > Agel of Light our children came to participate in, but the its
                > horrific opposite and it is U, U who sit there and read these
                things
                > that have failed to IMAGINE clearly what is going on.
                >
                > This mighty potential and sacrifice of the melancholic gomes, where
                > humans cannot think and they merely become the darkness, become
                > nihilistic, become dangerous in their own stewing darkness, enjoy
                > their selfish dangers, dark drugs and brooding faddishness...shames
                > Hamlet and Hamlet is our own Consciousness Soul. Our Consciousness
                > Soul does have a gesture and certainly the black suited Dr. Steiner
                > and that sort of lecture fad, wouldn't have our usual melancholics
                > and deep thinkers, now parading around in Hawaiian shirts now would
                > they? Well they should play against type and certainly Steiner
                would
                > not be all tatooed with dark coal tints under his eyes for that
                > vampire effect, if he walked into a room today. But Anthros still
                > see it that way. Anthros hardly would trust an infusion of happy
                > rollicking Michaelites pulling up in their Harley's to give
                > conferences and talks. They have to be conservative, sober and
                > unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings
                > latent in the Anthro, because Anthros just want to gawk and stare
                at
                > the old b/w photos of Der Doctor, instead of revealing the bubbling
                > life of the new Etheric Worlds. Eh?
                >
                > http://www.jazlink.com/jazlbums/England/HPIM0074.sized.jpg
                >
                > http://www.sculpturebyspirit.com/door.html
                >
              • opetha
                Hello, Disfigurations in the Orient is the opposite of Transformations in the Occident , where would we be without ambiguity? We must face our devil
                Message 7 of 30 , Oct 5, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello,

                  "Disfigurations in the Orient" is the opposite of "Transformations in
                  the Occident", where would we be without ambiguity? We must face our
                  devil sometime.

                  Tarot cards--that's why it appears "typical new-age", maybe a typical
                  filter is the case. But what I say is 100% eternal law of the dhamma,
                  so far as the unconscious as mulaprakriti is unchanging ideation from
                  which any spiritual world, in any epoch, is built.

                  Bless.

                  Godot.












                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hello Bradford
                  > >
                  > > OK, I understand what you're saying if only you wouldn't go so
                  far
                  > > ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of
                  > that
                  > > psychological type.
                  >
                  > Yes, Bradford writes alot, just as you write alot. Actually, I
                  > don't see much of a difference. Now, I try to write in brief
                  > because it serves to catch the eye, and maybe gets a response,
                  which
                  > is what I look for. I said you wrote "hodgepodge" because you
                  were
                  > pulling out all stops to write 'new-age' dribble, which some
                  > possibly could have found offensive. In fact, I found your initial
                  > post offensive and arrogant. And that is why I didn't respond to
                  > indications of Steinerian concepts from his "Foundations of
                  > Esotericism" lectures from 1905.
                  >
                  > You are quite right in that Jung and Steiner represent a polarity;
                  > just as Kant and Steiner represent a polarity from a philosophical
                  > standpoint. This has all been gone over before, on that other
                  > little ship called the s.s. minnow. Jung is to psychology what
                  Kant
                  > is to philosophy in terms of limits to knowledge and perception.
                  > And Rudolf Steiner overcame these bounds for those that seek to
                  > overcome such limits in order to go further in terms of knowledge
                  > and being.
                  >
                  > Esotericism and its relationship to modern thought is what
                  interests
                  > me. Spiritual science exists in order to extend thinking and
                  > knowledge into the causal realm that stands behind external
                  > phenomena. But you have to take up the study in earnest, just as
                  > you have taken up your study of Jungian principles according to a
                  > collective unconsciousness that is quite attractive to people today
                  > because it leaves the mysteries and enigmas alone; except to engage
                  > in conservative speculation about what things mean in the greater
                  > course of events.
                  >
                  > Thus, synchonicity and its phenomenal representation is a fact that
                  > only spiritual science can truly penetrate into its causality as an
                  > increasing experience of spiritual necessity. I didn't want to
                  lose
                  > that important point.
                  >
                  > Steve
                  >
                • holderlin66
                  Godot wrote: A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use him as an
                  Message 8 of 30 , Oct 5, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Godot wrote:

                    "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school
                    and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use
                    him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                    psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                    leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                    until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                    how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound your
                    science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is this
                    not so?"

                    "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                    writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                    forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                    men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                    Things."

                    Bradford comments;

                    Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                    Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal. But we
                    can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical point
                    means better than the current Jungians.

                    John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age 33.
                    Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the world
                    over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the Declaration
                    of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing Religious
                    Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.

                    María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                    8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.

                    1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES

                    Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0

                    (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)

                    In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space of
                    just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become one of
                    the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                    finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with three
                    friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                    philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                    labeled "Transcendentalism."

                    The Human Life by George O'Neil

                    " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                    George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of Biography.
                    The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of seven-
                    year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the archetype
                    of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead particularly
                    after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly. The
                    book goes into detail about the need to understand the importance of
                    a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                    karmic companions, moon nodes etc.

                    In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The chart
                    has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea, and
                    karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived and I
                    personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                    myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                    unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.

                    George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work and
                    insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain even
                    through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a Mercury
                    Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."

                    Bradford concludes;

                    Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously we
                    have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures with
                    first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and the
                    change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart; the
                    astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                    personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                    heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                    human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33 years
                    of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to 1933
                    when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is Ahriman
                    who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.

                    What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is exposed to
                    all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It recrossed
                    his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to what we
                    have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful elemental
                    intensity and GUILT.

                    But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                    understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                    being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces that
                    truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I AM,
                    human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away from
                    his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age, when
                    Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                    twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of the
                    two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                    prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math and
                    interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world and
                    Man.

                    But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as possible
                    the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                    consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                    Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate
                    and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point.
                    Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the Christ
                    take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                    thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away, looking
                    down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully developed
                    etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                    function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and as
                    fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra to
                    hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts the
                    amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that Zarathustra
                    watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest prepared
                    human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this loving,
                    living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun Elohim
                    Christ.

                    It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that Zarathustra
                    had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a clarified
                    astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom ever
                    condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                    someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a gift to
                    something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine all
                    the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                    insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched althought
                    Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                    mysteries to us.

                    Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                    thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM live
                    fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33. Take
                    Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region of
                    the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this I
                    AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt the
                    karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world over
                    and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds, Goethe,
                    Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the Christ
                    event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic family
                    with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic family!!
                    Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                    viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                    Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                    Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson with
                    his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                    community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner titles
                    his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative of
                    Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?

                    Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the science
                    of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at age 30
                    to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting confrontation
                    with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                    structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                    Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say we
                    could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list of
                    insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding places
                    in the bushes.

                    This is all that you need to remember about the difference between
                    Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                  • opetha
                    Good day, THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH ! Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn t matter in the end, we all have our own opinions and beliefs.
                    Message 9 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Good day,

                      THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !

                      Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end, we
                      all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I would
                      rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the 33
                      and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed horoscope
                      they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33, 34,
                      or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.

                      Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                      saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto when
                      he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect lasts a
                      long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This system
                      has
                      never known to fail, and like your interpretations of synchronicity
                      , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by

                      (a) energy
                      or (b) causality

                      Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was not
                      a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of the
                      SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                      tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the jambu
                      tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                      energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                      quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the centre
                      was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                      types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                      have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).

                      Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying that
                      the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth by
                      a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from the
                      bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                      sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.

                      "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                      -Pythagoras

                      Godot.
















                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66" <holderlin66@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Godot wrote:
                      >
                      > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school
                      > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use
                      > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                      > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                      > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                      > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                      > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound your
                      > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is this
                      > not so?"
                      >
                      > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                      > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                      > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                      > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                      > Things."
                      >
                      > Bradford comments;
                      >
                      > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                      > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal. But
                      we
                      > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                      point
                      > means better than the current Jungians.
                      >
                      > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age 33.
                      > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the world
                      > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the Declaration
                      > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing Religious
                      > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                      >
                      > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                      > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                      >
                      > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                      >
                      > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                      >
                      > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                      >
                      > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space of
                      > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become one
                      of
                      > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                      > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                      three
                      > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                      > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                      > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                      >
                      > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                      >
                      > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                      > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of Biography.
                      > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                      seven-
                      > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the archetype
                      > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                      particularly
                      > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly. The
                      > book goes into detail about the need to understand the importance
                      of
                      > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                      > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                      >
                      > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The chart
                      > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea, and
                      > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived and I
                      > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                      > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                      > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                      >
                      > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work and
                      > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain even
                      > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a Mercury
                      > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."
                      >
                      > Bradford concludes;
                      >
                      > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously we
                      > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                      with
                      > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and the
                      > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart; the
                      > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                      > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                      > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                      > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33 years
                      > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                      1933
                      > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is Ahriman
                      > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                      >
                      > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is exposed
                      to
                      > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                      recrossed
                      > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to what
                      we
                      > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful elemental
                      > intensity and GUILT.
                      >
                      > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                      > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                      > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces that
                      > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I AM,
                      > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away from
                      > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age, when
                      > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                      > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of the
                      > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                      > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math
                      and
                      > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world and
                      > Man.
                      >
                      > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as possible
                      > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                      > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                      > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate
                      > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point.
                      > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the Christ
                      > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                      > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away, looking
                      > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully developed
                      > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                      > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and as
                      > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra to
                      > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts
                      the
                      > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that Zarathustra
                      > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest prepared
                      > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this loving,
                      > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun Elohim
                      > Christ.
                      >
                      > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that Zarathustra
                      > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a clarified
                      > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom ever
                      > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                      > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a gift
                      to
                      > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine
                      all
                      > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                      > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched althought
                      > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                      > mysteries to us.
                      >
                      > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                      > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM live
                      > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33. Take
                      > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region of
                      > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this I
                      > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt the
                      > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world over
                      > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds, Goethe,
                      > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the Christ
                      > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                      family
                      > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                      family!!
                      > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                      > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                      > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                      > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                      with
                      > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                      > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner titles
                      > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative of
                      > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                      >
                      > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                      science
                      > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at age
                      30
                      > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting confrontation
                      > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                      > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                      > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say we
                      > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list of
                      > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding places
                      > in the bushes.
                      >
                      > This is all that you need to remember about the difference between
                      > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                      >
                    • carol
                      Dear Godot, Perhaps next time around you ll possess the great courage necessary to take on the `big picture . Please take note that your inner urge to
                      Message 10 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Dear Godot,

                        Perhaps next time around you'll possess the great courage necessary
                        to take on the `big picture'. Please take note that your inner urge
                        to directly wrestling with Anthroposophy has now
                        figuratively `sprinkled your soul with a light drizzle'.

                        May the heavens ray down upon you... in sympathy, Carol

                        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Good day,
                        >
                        > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !
                        >
                        > Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end,
                        we
                        > all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I
                        would
                        > rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the
                        33
                        > and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed
                        horoscope
                        > they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33,
                        34,
                        > or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.
                        >
                        > Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                        > saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto
                        when
                        > he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect
                        lasts a
                        > long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This
                        system
                        > has
                        > never known to fail, and like your interpretations of synchronicity
                        > , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by
                        >
                        > (a) energy
                        > or (b) causality
                        >
                        > Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was
                        not
                        > a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of
                        the
                        > SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                        > tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the
                        jambu
                        > tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                        > energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                        > quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the
                        centre
                        > was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                        > types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                        > have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).
                        >
                        > Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying
                        that
                        > the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth
                        by
                        > a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from
                        the
                        > bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                        > sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.
                        >
                        > "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                        > -Pythagoras
                        >
                        > Godot.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66" <holderlin66@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Godot wrote:
                        > >
                        > > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish
                        school
                        > > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will
                        use
                        > > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                        > > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                        > > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                        > > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                        > > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound
                        your
                        > > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                        this
                        > > not so?"
                        > >
                        > > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                        > > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                        > > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                        > > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                        > > Things."
                        > >
                        > > Bradford comments;
                        > >
                        > > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                        > > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal.
                        But
                        > we
                        > > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                        > point
                        > > means better than the current Jungians.
                        > >
                        > > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age
                        33.
                        > > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the
                        world
                        > > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                        Declaration
                        > > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing
                        Religious
                        > > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                        > >
                        > > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                        > > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                        > >
                        > > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                        > >
                        > > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                        > >
                        > > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                        > >
                        > > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space
                        of
                        > > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become
                        one
                        > of
                        > > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                        > > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                        > three
                        > > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                        > > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                        > > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                        > >
                        > > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                        > >
                        > > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                        > > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of
                        Biography.
                        > > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                        > seven-
                        > > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the
                        archetype
                        > > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                        > particularly
                        > > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                        The
                        > > book goes into detail about the need to understand the
                        importance
                        > of
                        > > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                        > > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                        > >
                        > > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                        chart
                        > > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea,
                        and
                        > > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived
                        and I
                        > > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                        > > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                        > > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                        > >
                        > > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work
                        and
                        > > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain
                        even
                        > > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a
                        Mercury
                        > > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."
                        > >
                        > > Bradford concludes;
                        > >
                        > > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously
                        we
                        > > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                        > with
                        > > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and
                        the
                        > > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart;
                        the
                        > > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                        > > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                        > > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                        > > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33
                        years
                        > > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                        > 1933
                        > > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                        Ahriman
                        > > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                        > >
                        > > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is
                        exposed
                        > to
                        > > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                        > recrossed
                        > > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to
                        what
                        > we
                        > > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                        elemental
                        > > intensity and GUILT.
                        > >
                        > > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                        > > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                        > > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces
                        that
                        > > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I
                        AM,
                        > > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away
                        from
                        > > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                        when
                        > > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                        > > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of
                        the
                        > > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                        > > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math
                        > and
                        > > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world
                        and
                        > > Man.
                        > >
                        > > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as
                        possible
                        > > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                        > > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                        > > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                        incubate
                        > > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that
                        point.
                        > > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                        Christ
                        > > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                        > > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away,
                        looking
                        > > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                        developed
                        > > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                        > > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and
                        as
                        > > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra
                        to
                        > > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts
                        > the
                        > > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                        Zarathustra
                        > > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest
                        prepared
                        > > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this
                        loving,
                        > > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                        Elohim
                        > > Christ.
                        > >
                        > > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                        Zarathustra
                        > > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                        clarified
                        > > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom
                        ever
                        > > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                        > > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a
                        gift
                        > to
                        > > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine
                        > all
                        > > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                        > > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched
                        althought
                        > > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                        > > mysteries to us.
                        > >
                        > > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                        > > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                        live
                        > > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                        Take
                        > > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region
                        of
                        > > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this
                        I
                        > > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                        the
                        > > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world
                        over
                        > > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds,
                        Goethe,
                        > > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                        Christ
                        > > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                        > family
                        > > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                        > family!!
                        > > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                        > > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                        > > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                        > > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                        > with
                        > > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                        > > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                        titles
                        > > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative
                        of
                        > > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                        > >
                        > > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                        > science
                        > > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at
                        age
                        > 30
                        > > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting
                        confrontation
                        > > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                        > > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                        > > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say
                        we
                        > > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list
                        of
                        > > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                        places
                        > > in the bushes.
                        > >
                        > > This is all that you need to remember about the difference
                        between
                        > > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                        > >
                        >
                      • opetha
                        Dear Godot, Perhaps next time around you ll possess the great courage necessary to take on the `big picture . Please take note that your inner urge to
                        Message 11 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
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                          "Dear Godot,

                          Perhaps next time around you'll possess the great courage necessary
                          to take on the `big picture'. Please take note that your inner urge
                          to directly wrestling with Anthroposophy has now
                          figuratively `sprinkled your soul with a light drizzle'. >
                          May the heavens ray down upon you... in sympathy, Carol"

                          The jehovah's witnesses are saying the same thing to you. This is an
                          anthroposophy site , if it was a Jung site you'd get the same
                          sectarian onanism from them. Human beings are not free of poison,
                          carol, this includes you.

                          The 'big picture' includes the collective unconscious which you think
                          is against anthroposophy. No spirit can operate without a Karmic
                          symbol in the unconscious, all spirits, phantom worlds and "eigth
                          spheres" all have a reflection in the unconscious, they cannot be
                          created without ideation.

                          A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless
                          that person's unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows
                          NOTHING about the unconscious and thinks that he is "divining"
                          himself psychically that he can kill
                          or heal someone. If he does heal, the spirit thinks that he did it by
                          his own effort. But the unconscious symbols, or archetypes, as we can
                          see by progression astrology is shown by that dead or healed
                          persons's horoscope; the aspects produced are synchronized to the
                          causel éffect. So, you see, these two worlds of unconscious and
                          conscious spirit are paralell. But because you have week intuition
                          you cannot see this, so you make up a lot of abstract rules to
                          entertain consciousness.
                          Totality--"christ etheric"---is only acheived through union of the
                          opposites. It is the resting of all spirit.

                          You have no balance and are threatened by this testament.

                          DE FABIS ABSTINUTO.
                          Godot











                          > >
                          > > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !
                          > >
                          > > Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end,
                          > we
                          > > all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I
                          > would
                          > > rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the
                          > 33
                          > > and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed
                          > horoscope
                          > > they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33,
                          > 34,
                          > > or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.
                          > >
                          > > Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                          > > saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto
                          > when
                          > > he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect
                          > lasts a
                          > > long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This
                          > system
                          > > has
                          > > never known to fail, and like your interpretations of
                          synchronicity
                          > > , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by
                          > >
                          > > (a) energy
                          > > or (b) causality
                          > >
                          > > Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was
                          > not
                          > > a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of
                          > the
                          > > SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                          > > tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the
                          > jambu
                          > > tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                          > > energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                          > > quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the
                          > centre
                          > > was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                          > > types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                          > > have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).
                          > >
                          > > Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying
                          > that
                          > > the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth
                          > by
                          > > a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from
                          > the
                          > > bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                          > > sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.
                          > >
                          > > "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                          > > -Pythagoras
                          > >
                          > > Godot.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                          <holderlin66@>
                          > > wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Godot wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish
                          > school
                          > > > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will
                          > use
                          > > > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                          > > > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                          > > > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the
                          stars
                          > > > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                          > > > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound
                          > your
                          > > > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                          > this
                          > > > not so?"
                          > > >
                          > > > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                          > > > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of
                          the
                          > > > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age
                          for
                          > > > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                          > > > Things."
                          > > >
                          > > > Bradford comments;
                          > > >
                          > > > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human
                          being.
                          > > > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal.
                          > But
                          > > we
                          > > > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                          > > point
                          > > > means better than the current Jungians.
                          > > >
                          > > > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age
                          > 33.
                          > > > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the
                          > world
                          > > > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                          > Declaration
                          > > > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing
                          > Religious
                          > > > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                          > > >
                          > > > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33,
                          at
                          > > > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                          > > >
                          > > > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                          > > >
                          > > > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                          > > >
                          > > > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                          > > >
                          > > > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space
                          > of
                          > > > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become
                          > one
                          > > of
                          > > > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                          > > > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                          > > three
                          > > > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                          > > > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                          > > > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                          > > >
                          > > > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                          > > >
                          > > > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                          > > > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of
                          > Biography.
                          > > > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                          > > seven-
                          > > > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the
                          > archetype
                          > > > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                          > > particularly
                          > > > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                          > The
                          > > > book goes into detail about the need to understand the
                          > importance
                          > > of
                          > > > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                          > > > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                          > > >
                          > > > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                          > chart
                          > > > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea,
                          > and
                          > > > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived
                          > and I
                          > > > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I
                          find
                          > > > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                          > > > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                          > > >
                          > > > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work
                          > and
                          > > > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain
                          > even
                          > > > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a
                          > Mercury
                          > > > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real
                          gem."
                          > > >
                          > > > Bradford concludes;
                          > > >
                          > > > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science.
                          Previously
                          > we
                          > > > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                          > > with
                          > > > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and
                          > the
                          > > > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart;
                          > the
                          > > > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                          > > > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                          > > > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find
                          the
                          > > > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33
                          > years
                          > > > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                          > > 1933
                          > > > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                          > Ahriman
                          > > > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                          > > >
                          > > > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is
                          > exposed
                          > > to
                          > > > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                          > > recrossed
                          > > > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to
                          > what
                          > > we
                          > > > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                          > elemental
                          > > > intensity and GUILT.
                          > > >
                          > > > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                          > > > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                          > > > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces
                          > that
                          > > > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I
                          > AM,
                          > > > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away
                          > from
                          > > > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                          > when
                          > > > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                          > > > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of
                          > the
                          > > > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                          > > > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic
                          math
                          > > and
                          > > > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world
                          > and
                          > > > Man.
                          > > >
                          > > > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as
                          > possible
                          > > > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                          > > > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                          > > > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                          > incubate
                          > > > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that
                          > point.
                          > > > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                          > Christ
                          > > > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language,
                          brain,
                          > > > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away,
                          > looking
                          > > > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                          > developed
                          > > > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot,
                          fully
                          > > > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and
                          > as
                          > > > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra
                          > to
                          > > > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's
                          depicts
                          > > the
                          > > > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                          > Zarathustra
                          > > > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest
                          > prepared
                          > > > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this
                          > loving,
                          > > > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                          > Elohim
                          > > > Christ.
                          > > >
                          > > > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                          > Zarathustra
                          > > > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                          > clarified
                          > > > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom
                          > ever
                          > > > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                          > > > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a
                          > gift
                          > > to
                          > > > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't
                          examine
                          > > all
                          > > > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                          > > > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched
                          > althought
                          > > > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                          > > > mysteries to us.
                          > > >
                          > > > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting
                          each
                          > > > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                          > live
                          > > > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                          > Take
                          > > > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region
                          > of
                          > > > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought
                          this
                          > I
                          > > > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                          > the
                          > > > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world
                          > over
                          > > > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds,
                          > Goethe,
                          > > > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                          > Christ
                          > > > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                          > > family
                          > > > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                          > > family!!
                          > > > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                          > > > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                          > > > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger
                          or
                          > > > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                          > > with
                          > > > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                          > > > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                          > titles
                          > > > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative
                          > of
                          > > > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                          > > >
                          > > > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                          > > science
                          > > > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at
                          > age
                          > > 30
                          > > > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting
                          > confrontation
                          > > > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                          > > > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                          > > > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd
                          say
                          > we
                          > > > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list
                          > of
                          > > > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                          > places
                          > > > in the bushes.
                          > > >
                          > > > This is all that you need to remember about the difference
                          > between
                          > > > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • holderlin66
                          opetha wrote: A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless that person s unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows NOTHING
                          Message 12 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
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                            opetha wrote:

                            "A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless
                            that person's unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows
                            NOTHING about the unconscious and thinks that he is "divining"
                            himself psychically that he can kill
                            or heal someone. If he does heal, the spirit thinks that he did it by
                            his own effort. But the unconscious symbols, or archetypes, as we can
                            see by progression astrology is shown by that dead or healed
                            persons's horoscope; the aspects produced are synchronized to the
                            causel éffect. So, you see, these two worlds of unconscious and
                            conscious spirit are paralell."

                            Bradford comments;

                            Truly, truly, not that it matters, by Jungianism is a very good
                            basis for beginners to grasp Anthroposophy. Most Anthro's have not
                            progressed further than vague Jungianism, but Jungianism is a good
                            enough approach to start off with.

                            But to the issue, Godot, the issue of healing. Now there is again an
                            area of actual healing, as in the so called miracles, and right
                            away, forget about whatever you have assumed about the miracles in
                            the past. Healing, certainly healers and healing is a wonderful
                            theory and vaguely we are all growing into healers. But Healers that
                            are given the task of producing from our core, an entirely new
                            nature with adjustments and elemental world healings, and karmic
                            balancers.

                            But the theory of healers has to have itself rooted in something.
                            That something is known as the progressive science miracles of
                            Christ. That is that Anthro Science and Resurrection Science can
                            walk you through the slow unfolding and serious deepening, step by
                            step as the Christ penetrated...the Jesus model built by Zarathustra.

                            Step by step, the vast Being of the Christ, using the developing
                            cognition of the Christ and Zarathustra's highly developed faculties
                            and Buddha's immense cosmic compassion, started out with what,
                            changing water into wine. But from each step by step, stage by stage
                            deepening of what Christ is, the I AM of all I AM's, as our I AM and
                            higher being penetrates into our being, firstly Christ taps the deep
                            forces of wine, blood and the elemental forces of the EArth. Christ
                            changes water into wine. Whole new elemental forces in the nymphs
                            and undines spring to life in clay jars.

                            Now what happens stage by stage are not miracles but the unfolding
                            in depth capacity and science of the forces of Karma cognition,
                            healing blind people, or blood issues, or the Youth of Nain, as a
                            world historical karmic adjustment that was left over from THE SON
                            OF THE WIDOW an Isis and Egyptian karmic problem that left a youth
                            in a coma, was read and adjusted by Christ.

                            We have brought on this list, on this list only recently, revealing
                            these miracles under the heading of miracles and we walked it
                            through as best we could. That is that Christ was the active Star
                            Genius, the active adjustor. Christ on Earth was an active vortex of
                            living Star force that usually exists outside of humanity. Christ
                            brought the living Stars for a short time, exactly on Earth.
                            Steiner, better than Bill Gates, knew the codes and developments of
                            I AM's and Christ could and had the power in the vortex that was
                            established around him.... a vast vortex of forces that included the
                            TWELVE, Christ was the walking reality of the immediate stars. These
                            powers are all latent in the puny i am or id and how we raise
                            ourselves to our higher beings, and eventually bring the Not I but
                            Christ I AM into us, is left for our unfolding future.

                            But my point is not that they were healing and miracles and not that
                            human beings, Jungians and biodynamics farmers, Waldorf educators,
                            and Anthro trained students aren't healers, we all are. But my point
                            was that an entirely new nature ---- This should be grasped and I
                            can't blame anyone, including Anthros for not yet grasping this, but
                            the fact is that a New Nature force rose up and will rise up not
                            from miracles but from the penetrating and clarified science of the
                            I AM going deeper and deeper into the I AM, down to the core of
                            matter. And I can tell you that penetrating the core of matter as
                            Love and Light is part of the Heisenberg problem. A problem that
                            Heisenberg and Steiner agreed upon. As the I AM is penetrated and we
                            become more and more conscious, the exactness of the science, the
                            etheric forces needed, the star forces needed, all become clear to
                            the force that had penetrated the Jesus model, once the Cosmic I AM
                            took root.

                            The science of healing, certainly has a beginning with a Jungian
                            frame of reference and Anthroposophy picks up that Jungian frame of
                            reference and more and more consolidates what is termed,
                            UNCONSCIOUS, as nothing that cannot be explored by the Spiritual
                            Scientist. Naturally the idea that Steiner was unconscious of the
                            nature forces or star forces and medical forces as he plunged into
                            his "Agricultural Course" is absurd. Naturally to imagine that the
                            hit or miss version of Edgar Casey was on par with the Conscious
                            Initiate Science of Steiner, is sweet. But to penetrate the
                            properties of the stars, and direct them down to the soil, or
                            through the organism, or into the model of higher and general
                            education, means that the unconscious model that Jungians declare as
                            part of the unexplored area of their being....that may be true for
                            us, but it was less and less true for both Zarathustra, Buddha and
                            Steiner. Mapping the Unconscious with clarity is also not getting
                            trapped in the idea of vague nonsense.

                            Myths, archetypes, you give it to me, and I'll spit it right back in
                            the direction that reveals, not the unconscious but the maps of the
                            unconscious. When we say maps, we are talking Dante and his nine
                            layers deep and nine layers upwards. When we are talking maps, we
                            are talking about the same Nine layers of the Norse Yggdrasill. When
                            we are talking maps of the unconscious we are talking about the same
                            Nine layers that were known to the Egyptians....if you want me to
                            prove it... suffice it to say, KA...etc... etc... What you insist on
                            the unconscious was the Venus steps of the Aztec and Mayan altars,
                            where the nine months of gestation and the snake shadow that runs
                            down the steps and even the number of steps up the Venus altar where
                            human sacrifice was made, were the exact number of steps as the
                            number of days it took Venus....And then the Aztec's went down into
                            the nine worlds of the underworld. These maps were not meant to be
                            relegated as unconscious.

                            Now Spiritual Science does not stand on the unconscious, it stands
                            for the progressive unfolding of deeper and deeper layers of
                            conscious penetration. That means that Nine Hierarchies, say, and
                            Nine layers of the inner Earth and Nine fields of soul development
                            in the human being are all part of the accurate, science of the maps
                            of human cognition and the worlds around us.

                            The fact that the stars play a part has also been brought up here as
                            the 12 pairs of Cranial nerves that are the literal, pin-prick and
                            compass that forms the human brain, and gives each individual a time
                            stamp and a specific compass point, a karmic talent and capcity POV
                            that is unique to the birth of each human being. This brain sheath
                            and skull as well as the Dodecahedron has been generously explored
                            here. So indeed Star movements and how the TWELVE operated around
                            the Christ as a stabalizing field for the immense Elohim, Christ, in
                            a warm field of Olive Trees and in the super warmed blood of the
                            Hebrew people with their specific Iron forces... All this was to
                            root the immense Sun Being and anchor it into Jesus.

                            Then, to top it all off, the entire cellular structure glows with
                            such a powerful light at the Transfiguration that the entire
                            mysteries of matter, down to the very core of the bones, is infused
                            and penetrated with a cosmic light. I can only thank-you profusely
                            for offering your wonderful Jungian curiosity to the stable
                            foundations of Spiritual Science. Because Anthro Jungians, which
                            there are many of us, also need to get with the program that this is
                            not the vague unconscious we are dealing with.
                          • organicethics@sympatico.ca
                            Interesting, I think clarification is being called upon. Here’s one small example: The big picture includes the collective unconscious (the Akasha) which
                            Message 13 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
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                              Interesting, I think clarification is being called upon. Here’s one small example:

                              The 'big picture' includes the collective unconscious (the Akasha) which you think
                              is against anthroposophy (your reflection). No spirit (individual soul) can operate without a Karmic symbol (imprint/spiritual configuration animated by spiritual beings) in the unconscious, all spirits, phantom worlds and "eigth spheres" all have a reflection (living reality in the occult world) in the unconscious, they cannot be created without ideation (the participation of the thinking soul/spirit).

                              Godot, Theosophy gets you deep with the typical disorganization. Anthroposophy offers the opportunity for Occult experience with the safeguards against getting ‘muddled’.

                              Godot, be my guest, go do your thing, it’s your destiny, it’s you who ultimately answers for your actions and choices.

                              But rest assured, that if you send ME psychic ‘threats’, you’ll get sunken…!

                              Have a nice evening Godot, and be nice to people, Carol.

                              >
                              > From: "opetha" <opetha@...>
                              > Date: 2006/10/06 Fri PM 02:41:21 EST
                              > To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: Amoeba contra Manu
                              >
                              > "Dear Godot,
                              >
                              > Perhaps next time around you'll possess the great courage necessary
                              > to take on the `big picture'. Please take note that your inner urge
                              > to directly wrestling with Anthroposophy has now
                              > figuratively `sprinkled your soul with a light drizzle'. >
                              > May the heavens ray down upon you... in sympathy, Carol"
                              >
                              > The jehovah's witnesses are saying the same thing to you. This is an
                              > anthroposophy site , if it was a Jung site you'd get the same
                              > sectarian onanism from them. Human beings are not free of poison,
                              > carol, this includes you.
                              >
                              > The 'big picture' includes the collective unconscious which you think
                              > is against anthroposophy. No spirit can operate without a Karmic
                              > symbol in the unconscious, all spirits, phantom worlds and "eigth
                              > spheres" all have a reflection in the unconscious, they cannot be
                              > created without ideation.
                              >
                              > A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless
                              > that person's unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows
                              > NOTHING about the unconscious and thinks that he is "divining"
                              > himself psychically that he can kill
                              > or heal someone. If he does heal, the spirit thinks that he did it by
                              > his own effort. But the unconscious symbols, or archetypes, as we can
                              > see by progression astrology is shown by that dead or healed
                              > persons's horoscope; the aspects produced are synchronized to the
                              > causel éffect. So, you see, these two worlds of unconscious and
                              > conscious spirit are paralell. But because you have week intuition
                              > you cannot see this, so you make up a lot of abstract rules to
                              > entertain consciousness.
                              > Totality--"christ etheric"---is only acheived through union of the
                              > opposites. It is the resting of all spirit.
                              >
                              > You have no balance and are threatened by this testament.
                              >
                              > DE FABIS ABSTINUTO.
                              > Godot
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > > >
                              > > > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !
                              > > >
                              > > > Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end,
                              > > we
                              > > > all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I
                              > > would
                              > > > rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the
                              > > 33
                              > > > and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed
                              > > horoscope
                              > > > they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33,
                              > > 34,
                              > > > or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.
                              > > >
                              > > > Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                              > > > saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto
                              > > when
                              > > > he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect
                              > > lasts a
                              > > > long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This
                              > > system
                              > > > has
                              > > > never known to fail, and like your interpretations of
                              > synchronicity
                              > > > , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by
                              > > >
                              > > > (a) energy
                              > > > or (b) causality
                              > > >
                              > > > Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was
                              > > not
                              > > > a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of
                              > > the
                              > > > SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                              > > > tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the
                              > > jambu
                              > > > tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                              > > > energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                              > > > quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the
                              > > centre
                              > > > was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                              > > > types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                              > > > have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).
                              > > >
                              > > > Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying
                              > > that
                              > > > the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth
                              > > by
                              > > > a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from
                              > > the
                              > > > bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                              > > > sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.
                              > > >
                              > > > "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                              > > > -Pythagoras
                              > > >
                              > > > Godot.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                              > <holderlin66@>
                              > > > wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Godot wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish
                              > > school
                              > > > > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will
                              > > use
                              > > > > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                              > > > > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                              > > > > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the
                              > stars
                              > > > > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                              > > > > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound
                              > > your
                              > > > > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                              > > this
                              > > > > not so?"
                              > > > >
                              > > > > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                              > > > > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of
                              > the
                              > > > > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age
                              > for
                              > > > > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                              > > > > Things."
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Bradford comments;
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human
                              > being.
                              > > > > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal.
                              > > But
                              > > > we
                              > > > > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                              > > > point
                              > > > > means better than the current Jungians.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age
                              > > 33.
                              > > > > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the
                              > > world
                              > > > > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                              > > Declaration
                              > > > > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing
                              > > Religious
                              > > > > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33,
                              > at
                              > > > > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                              > > > >
                              > > > > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                              > > > >
                              > > > > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space
                              > > of
                              > > > > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become
                              > > one
                              > > > of
                              > > > > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                              > > > > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                              > > > three
                              > > > > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                              > > > > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                              > > > > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                              > > > >
                              > > > > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                              > > > >
                              > > > > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                              > > > > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of
                              > > Biography.
                              > > > > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                              > > > seven-
                              > > > > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the
                              > > archetype
                              > > > > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                              > > > particularly
                              > > > > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                              > > The
                              > > > > book goes into detail about the need to understand the
                              > > importance
                              > > > of
                              > > > > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                              > > > > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                              > > chart
                              > > > > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea,
                              > > and
                              > > > > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived
                              > > and I
                              > > > > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I
                              > find
                              > > > > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                              > > > > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work
                              > > and
                              > > > > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain
                              > > even
                              > > > > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a
                              > > Mercury
                              > > > > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real
                              > gem."
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Bradford concludes;
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science.
                              > Previously
                              > > we
                              > > > > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                              > > > with
                              > > > > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and
                              > > the
                              > > > > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart;
                              > > the
                              > > > > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                              > > > > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                              > > > > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find
                              > the
                              > > > > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33
                              > > years
                              > > > > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                              > > > 1933
                              > > > > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                              > > Ahriman
                              > > > > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is
                              > > exposed
                              > > > to
                              > > > > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                              > > > recrossed
                              > > > > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to
                              > > what
                              > > > we
                              > > > > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                              > > elemental
                              > > > > intensity and GUILT.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                              > > > > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                              > > > > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces
                              > > that
                              > > > > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I
                              > > AM,
                              > > > > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away
                              > > from
                              > > > > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                              > > when
                              > > > > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                              > > > > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of
                              > > the
                              > > > > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                              > > > > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic
                              > math
                              > > > and
                              > > > > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world
                              > > and
                              > > > > Man.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as
                              > > possible
                              > > > > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                              > > > > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                              > > > > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                              > > incubate
                              > > > > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that
                              > > point.
                              > > > > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                              > > Christ
                              > > > > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language,
                              > brain,
                              > > > > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away,
                              > > looking
                              > > > > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                              > > developed
                              > > > > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot,
                              > fully
                              > > > > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and
                              > > as
                              > > > > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra
                              > > to
                              > > > > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's
                              > depicts
                              > > > the
                              > > > > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                              > > Zarathustra
                              > > > > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest
                              > > prepared
                              > > > > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this
                              > > loving,
                              > > > > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                              > > Elohim
                              > > > > Christ.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                              > > Zarathustra
                              > > > > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                              > > clarified
                              > > > > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom
                              > > ever
                              > > > > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                              > > > > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a
                              > > gift
                              > > > to
                              > > > > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't
                              > examine
                              > > > all
                              > > > > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                              > > > > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched
                              > > althought
                              > > > > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                              > > > > mysteries to us.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting
                              > each
                              > > > > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                              > > live
                              > > > > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                              > > Take
                              > > > > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region
                              > > of
                              > > > > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought
                              > this
                              > > I
                              > > > > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                              > > the
                              > > > > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world
                              > > over
                              > > > > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds,
                              > > Goethe,
                              > > > > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                              > > Christ
                              > > > > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                              > > > family
                              > > > > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                              > > > family!!
                              > > > > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                              > > > > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                              > > > > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger
                              > or
                              > > > > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                              > > > with
                              > > > > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                              > > > > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                              > > titles
                              > > > > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative
                              > > of
                              > > > > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                              > > > science
                              > > > > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at
                              > > age
                              > > > 30
                              > > > > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting
                              > > confrontation
                              > > > > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                              > > > > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                              > > > > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd
                              > say
                              > > we
                              > > > > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list
                              > > of
                              > > > > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                              > > places
                              > > > > in the bushes.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > This is all that you need to remember about the difference
                              > > between
                              > > > > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • opetha
                              Hello, OK, organicethics, but akash = unconcsious is a major blunder of childish proportions. You are embarressing. You say: But rest assured, that if you
                              Message 14 of 30 , Oct 7, 2006
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                                Hello,

                                OK, organicethics, but akash = unconcsious is a major blunder of
                                childish proportions. You are embarressing.

                                You say:

                                "But rest assured, that if you send ME psychic `threats', you'll get
                                sunken…!"

                                You have a major ego problem as well. Capital "ME"? You have sunk
                                yourself with this already. You will not attain to the things you speak
                                and read of if you think in terms of childish ego squabbles.

                                But look forward to something "red". . . . . . . . .(?)

                                temhamitnA.
                              • carol
                                Peace; man! ... get ... speak
                                Message 15 of 30 , Oct 9, 2006
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                                  Peace; man!

                                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hello,
                                  >
                                  > OK, organicethics, but akash = unconcsious is a major blunder of
                                  > childish proportions. You are embarressing.
                                  >
                                  > You say:
                                  >
                                  > "But rest assured, that if you send ME psychic `threats', you'll
                                  get
                                  > sunken…!"
                                  >
                                  > You have a major ego problem as well. Capital "ME"? You have sunk
                                  > yourself with this already. You will not attain to the things you
                                  speak
                                  > and read of if you think in terms of childish ego squabbles.
                                  >
                                  > But look forward to something "red". . . . . . . . .(?)
                                  >
                                  > temhamitnA.
                                  >
                                • carol
                                  Bradford wrote: `Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point Though I
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Oct 10, 2006
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                                    Bradford wrote:

                                    `Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate
                                    and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point'


                                    Though I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having
                                    embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral' beauty in
                                    my 32th year, (which incidentally has me still marveling), it's
                                    worth noting that I know that at that time, I wasn't ripe to absorb
                                    the `living' meaning of the statement concerning Zarathustra and
                                    Christ.

                                    (Of course, Z's soul/spirit's participation in the mystery was quite
                                    THE exception)

                                    For this, I was only really able to incorporate into my conscious
                                    experience, in a living way, without hesitation, only recently, just
                                    past my mid forties.

                                    Would YOU say that this `mature' experience points towards the
                                    reasons why Steiner insisted on individuals waiting until their
                                    forties before assuming an `authoritative' voice vis ä vis
                                    spiritual science?

                                    As opposed to creating (deciphering) theories/art forms from
                                    within `the lively experience of youth'.

                                    Here are two distinct life stages which are spaced out and differ in
                                    caracter: exceptional creative inspiration within (the fountain of)
                                    youth and unwavering conscious soul experience (through having
                                    processed enough complex `life' experiences and also from possessing
                                    an intuitive experience of mortality)

                                    Would you like to elaborate on these ideas? Carol.

                                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                    <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Godot wrote:
                                    >
                                    > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school
                                    > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use
                                    > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                    > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                    > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                                    > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                    > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound your
                                    > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                                    this
                                    > not so?"
                                    >
                                    > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                    > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                                    > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                                    > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                    > Things."
                                    >
                                    > Bradford comments;
                                    >
                                    > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                                    > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal. But
                                    we
                                    > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                    point
                                    > means better than the current Jungians.
                                    >
                                    > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age 33.
                                    > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the world
                                    > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                                    Declaration
                                    > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing Religious
                                    > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                    >
                                    > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                                    > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                    >
                                    > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                    >
                                    > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                    >
                                    > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                    >
                                    > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space of
                                    > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become one
                                    of
                                    > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                    > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                    three
                                    > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                    > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                    > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                    >
                                    > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                    >
                                    > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                    > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of Biography.
                                    > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                    seven-
                                    > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the archetype
                                    > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                    particularly
                                    > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                                    The
                                    > book goes into detail about the need to understand the importance
                                    of
                                    > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                    > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                    >
                                    > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                                    chart
                                    > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea, and
                                    > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived and
                                    I
                                    > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                                    > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                    > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                    >
                                    > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work and
                                    > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain even
                                    > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a Mercury
                                    > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."
                                    >
                                    > Bradford concludes;
                                    >
                                    > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously
                                    we
                                    > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                    with
                                    > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and the
                                    > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart; the
                                    > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                    > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                    > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                                    > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33 years
                                    > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                    1933
                                    > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                                    Ahriman
                                    > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                    >
                                    > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is exposed
                                    to
                                    > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                    recrossed
                                    > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to what
                                    we
                                    > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                                    elemental
                                    > intensity and GUILT.
                                    >
                                    > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                    > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                    > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces that
                                    > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I AM,
                                    > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away from
                                    > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                                    when
                                    > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                    > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of the
                                    > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                    > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math
                                    and
                                    > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world and
                                    > Man.
                                    >
                                    > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as possible
                                    > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                    > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                    > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                                    incubate
                                    > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point.
                                    > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                                    Christ
                                    > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                                    > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away, looking
                                    > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                                    developed
                                    > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                                    > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and as
                                    > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra to
                                    > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts
                                    the
                                    > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                                    Zarathustra
                                    > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest prepared
                                    > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this loving,
                                    > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                                    Elohim
                                    > Christ.
                                    >
                                    > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                                    Zarathustra
                                    > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                                    clarified
                                    > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom ever
                                    > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                    > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a gift
                                    to
                                    > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine
                                    all
                                    > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                    > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched althought
                                    > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                    > mysteries to us.
                                    >
                                    > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                                    > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                                    live
                                    > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                                    Take
                                    > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region of
                                    > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this I
                                    > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                                    the
                                    > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world over
                                    > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds, Goethe,
                                    > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                                    Christ
                                    > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                    family
                                    > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                    family!!
                                    > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                    > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                    > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                                    > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                    with
                                    > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                    > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                                    titles
                                    > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative of
                                    > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                    >
                                    > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                    science
                                    > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at age
                                    30
                                    > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting confrontation
                                    > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                    > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                    > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say
                                    we
                                    > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list of
                                    > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                                    places
                                    > in the bushes.
                                    >
                                    > This is all that you need to remember about the difference between
                                    > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                    >
                                  • holderlin66
                                    carol wrote: ...I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral beauty in my 32th year, (which
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Oct 15, 2006
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                                      carol wrote:

                                      "...I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having
                                      embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral' beauty in
                                      my 32th year, (which incidentally has me still marveling), it's
                                      worth noting that I know that at that time, I wasn't ripe to absorb
                                      the `living' meaning of the statement concerning Zarathustra and
                                      Christ.

                                      (Of course, Z's soul/spirit's participation in the mystery was quite
                                      THE exception)

                                      For this, I was only really able to incorporate into my conscious
                                      experience, in a living way, without hesitation, only recently, just
                                      past my mid forties.

                                      Would YOU say that this `mature' experience points towards the
                                      reasons why Steiner insisted on individuals waiting until their
                                      forties before assuming an `authoritative' voice vis ä vis
                                      spiritual science?

                                      As opposed to creating (deciphering) theories/art forms from
                                      within `the lively experience of youth'.

                                      Here are two distinct life stages which are spaced out and differ in
                                      caracter: exceptional creative inspiration within (the fountain of)
                                      youth and unwavering conscious soul experience (through having
                                      processed enough complex `life' experiences and also from possessing
                                      an intuitive experience of mortality)

                                      Would you like to elaborate on these ideas? Carol."

                                      Bradford comments;

                                      Carol it is great to hear your spiritual voice. (As thought is
                                      spiritual activity). For those of us who are not Zarathustra, we can
                                      dig up example after biographical example of how our unprepared, and
                                      semi-karmically prepared I AM's start facing our instincts at the 30
                                      to the 35 mark. Distinctly we can fetch Bill Gates and we can note
                                      how his attention, mission, destiny, certainly centered on the
                                      objectification of the Global Intelligence that could well up, gush
                                      upwards from the deep gorge of untapped human vision, in
                                      connectedness everywhere. Thus all those particpating, if they have
                                      the means, would be faced with a storm of hidden information, vast
                                      fingertip libraries of humanity, Porn, and instincts, raw thought,
                                      Orwellian thought, Luciferically watered down or poison pill laced
                                      thought. Ahrimanic data, numbers, cold cruel pictures of human
                                      beastliness, the worst and most hideous beastliness in all of the
                                      beastly kingdoms.

                                      With this information it is not hard to see with senstive artistic
                                      imagination and intuition how hardened, rigidified and icy
                                      standpoints congeal to Horns. Ten horns or horned beasts that
                                      represent rigidified, forming slowly, Corporate Political systems
                                      that calcify into overall materialistic mind sets, that sit
                                      comfortably in tens of millions.

                                      When you add nano technology and how ahrimanic forces which have the
                                      intent to rip fragments of cloned humanity out of the karmic star
                                      fabric, such a fantasy as depicted in films like the "The
                                      Island" "Gattica" "Blade Runner" ...where humans are grown for
                                      replacement and organ parts, for Gold and Immortality and serve the
                                      calcification of the disease avarice, the entire Corporate anti-
                                      Sophia realm of The Whore of Babylon, isn't even hard to picture it
                                      developing out of human instincts the way John saw it.

                                      John did the best he could to describe it, rising up out of the
                                      intinctual morass of humanity, as a great congealing Anti-Human
                                      factoring.John's Whore of Babylon was the Shadow on Earth of bright
                                      Sophia Star wisdom fallen into human snares. Steiner updated and
                                      filled in some of the blanks that John left as theory and Steiner
                                      brought us into current Michael Speak which is different than
                                      Orwell's NEWSPEAK. At the Dawn of the Age of Light we were given
                                      updates and clarifications of all that was semi clouded and confused
                                      coming from human I AM events.

                                      "Newspeak was the official language of Oceania and had been devised
                                      to meet the ideological needs of Ingsoc, or English Socialism. In
                                      the year 1984 there was not as yet anyone who used Newspeak as his
                                      sole means of communication, either in speech or writing. The
                                      leading articles in The Times were written in it, but could only be
                                      carried out by a specialist. It was expected that Newspeak would
                                      have finally superseded Oldspeak (or Standard English) by about the
                                      year 2050"

                                      Seattle Times:

                                      "The use of powerful and well-placed words and images worked for
                                      INGSOC. Its slogan — war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is
                                      strength — fits like a truncheon in the cradle of shattered bone..."

                                      Bradford continues;

                                      Intelligent human beings don't have to be reminded that Orwell did
                                      us a service in writing his "1984". Grotesque human regime examples
                                      can be given that go back to France and Phillip the Fair that
                                      overturned anything to do with the feeble voice of the Magna Carta,
                                      on through the regime of the Inquisition and the torturing of the
                                      Templars giving us a mid-line of 1332 that lasted well beyond that
                                      period, to Stalin, Nazi Germany, Mao, and again the little section
                                      of time at the dawn of the 21st century, reveals once again the
                                      activiation of this Karmic Group, intent on ripping fragments of the
                                      I AM out of the Star patterns. How?

                                      Shakespeare and all that we could, if we so desired, to understand
                                      regarding why Ahriman wishes to destroy the tool of human karma by
                                      creating on Earth cloned replications that rip human karma to
                                      shreds, is simply there before us in the little poetic tragedy of
                                      the Kennedy brothers and Romeo and Juliet.

                                      "When he shall die take him and cut him out into stars and he shall
                                      make the face of heaven so fine that all the world will be in love
                                      with night and pay no worship to the garish sun." Quoting
                                      Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, Robert Kennedy at the Democratic
                                      National Convention, 8/27/64." TAKE HIM AND CUT HIM OUT INTO STARS.
                                      As we do when we cut little stars that are all the same because we
                                      have scissors and we can see how the folded paper is all linked into
                                      a whole.

                                      Bradford concludes;

                                      Carol and I agree that ripening, the immense instincts, those same
                                      instincts that rose up when the milkman in Amish PA. America, at 32,
                                      took innocent girls hostage because he could not bear to see what
                                      the I AM of his conscience knew of his own dark, dark, intent. And
                                      what happens when we humans get to know all the secrets of our dark,
                                      dark intents, that are swirling in the depths of our instincts? Bill
                                      Gates opened these vast doors to the gurgling flood gates and surge
                                      of all that is wisdom in humanity, our own Steiner Internet and
                                      Archive had to struggle with complacent Anthros and still does, to
                                      meet the vast instincts humanity carries and antidote them with
                                      Michael Speak or Michael thought.

                                      We know that adults on the path of Initiation Schooling get to know
                                      that these dark intincts are not meant to hit the intellect with
                                      their raw intensity without some preparation. That at 29 at the
                                      Saturn return, to well into the Jupiter and Saturn age of our
                                      biography we are entrusted to digest and ripen the kind of balance
                                      of wisdom that does not place the human being alone with his demons
                                      but gives him or her the tools of the Consciousness Soul.

                                      But Bill Gates opened the world to vast, vast instincts, insights,
                                      wisdom and tools....And Bill Gates was a mere 33 to 35, and if we
                                      just look at Bill Gates Mission, we understand that if we take the
                                      POF and open the mystery...Now kids, open the mystery literally
                                      means looking down into the dark well of our deepest instincts, and
                                      the roots of our I AM. What truly disturbs one and presents one with
                                      another aspect of looking down the Well of the I AM and looking at
                                      the overview and understanding the horrific courage it requires to
                                      ripen and mature... there is the example of the very well we are
                                      speaking about, in the film, "The Ring".

                                      Naturally it is but a film. It is but a depiction of how we
                                      penetrate to a most horrific mystery. A mystery that has addictive
                                      power to it. It is a disturbing little film, "The Ring". Aside from
                                      looking down the deep well and ripening our intelligence to face the
                                      problems we have opened up, (opened a can of worms) the POF and all
                                      aspects of Spiritual Science call upon the student to gain their I
                                      AM compass orientation from the depths of looking into the deepest
                                      mysteries of the Well and roots and connections to the depths of the
                                      Earth.

                                      Take for instance that the Water that Christ changes into wine that
                                      is drawn from a well, and put in clay jars, six or seven clay jars.
                                      Now Christ is going to first change this water from the deep bowels
                                      of the etheric earth, into wine. Ah but he doesn't just decide to do
                                      that, there is a wedding and a surge of joy and what we call
                                      happiness and intoxication, a point where lots of people get
                                      together, contribute and support, offer freely their gifts to some
                                      couple who is being wed. An astral surge runs through the close knit
                                      wedding guests, they make bread, contribute tables, sow fabrics, get
                                      dressed up, the farmer planted, the plants grew, the meals were
                                      cooked, the bread and flat breads were made from the flower, the
                                      donkey's turned the stone wheel that ground the wheat. Vegtables
                                      helped, gnomes helped, salamandars served the Donkey's, fires and
                                      ovens had been made and trees grew fruits and were cultivated by
                                      human hands and olives were sprinkled over the greens and the bread
                                      dipped in the olive oils. These utter basics are all contributed,
                                      not from a super-market but rather are all called forth from the
                                      treasure of old instinctive causes for celebration, community and
                                      human union. Instinctive Causes for celebration.

                                      Christ adds to this a new force where enthusiasm and joy change the
                                      entire chemical forces in the clay jars, and the water drawn from
                                      the deep regions of the Earth, in a small etheric science miracle, a
                                      new cognitive force has been changed by the I AM's participation.
                                      The I AM has plenty of sweet instincts in the well and in these
                                      days, what seems to sell are plenty of bitter forces that lurk like
                                      monsters in the well as well. Steiner was an I AM initiate and he
                                      like the rest of us was living in a science age where the I AM was
                                      not even on the table as a consideration. Steiner as an I AM
                                      initiate went down the well and brought out Biodynamics, Waldorf
                                      Education, Eurythmy and the full fledged Science of the I AM in
                                      potential.

                                      And one more thing, the film "The Ring" centers around the problem
                                      of one child who has something so potent, say, a complete 24/7 wide
                                      awake, immortal force in her that cannot die and cannot be removed,
                                      it is an acute problem that can either be understood as our immortal
                                      core or rejected and become the curse and bane of humanity by
                                      rejecting it. We cannot kill this immortal core. We can only learn
                                      to ripen our courage to grasp how each individual child can be given
                                      the tools and foundation to cope with the great thoughts of the
                                      world and navigate and be given a compass that holds to a true
                                      Spiritual North.

                                      Naturally adults who are morally ripened individual are able to
                                      educate children and one of the Miracles of the Science of the
                                      Consciousness Soul is the conscious curriculum structure of Waldorf
                                      Education. Biodynamics is another raw Science of the Consciousness
                                      Soul and a victory of the I AM in the instincts of the Earth and
                                      Stars. Waldorf Education extends into the Angelic intervention where
                                      humans can plant the tools of consciousness that will be needed so
                                      that by age 32 to 72 humanity can ripen the immense depth of the I
                                      AM. Because as Carol has said, we are not Zarathustra's. We are slow
                                      and stubborn humans.

                                      Zarathustra had consolidated most of his former faculties by age
                                      TWELVE. So Zarathustra's twelve is like our age 30 in terms of the I
                                      Am ratio of speed and growth compared to the physical body of seven
                                      years and the etheric body and the astral body and finally the speed
                                      of the I AM are all differently paced clocks in the human psyche.
                                    • carol
                                      Dear Bradford, thank you for your `rich response. I especially enjoyed reading your conclusion in it s entirety. What truly disturbs one and presents one
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Oct 15, 2006
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                                        Dear Bradford, thank you for your `rich' response. I especially
                                        enjoyed reading your conclusion in it's entirety.


                                        "What truly disturbs one and presents one with
                                        another aspect of looking down the Well of the I AM and looking at
                                        the overview and understanding the horrific courage it requires to
                                        ripen and mature..."

                                        This statement touches me deeply because at the age of 22, I was
                                        subject to a sudden metamorphoses; karmic events triggered me to
                                        abruptly abandon the use of recreational drugs; I was almost
                                        instantly placed in the higher worlds without education. I used all
                                        the ingenuity, energy of my youth and all internalized experiences;
                                        to climb the great mountain of my soul's and eternal self's wish for
                                        me as if I was a penniless orphan, on hands and knees…

                                        Bradford, the heavens gave me `living' Drama for which I am
                                        eternally grateful and now, quite attached to as well. Carol.



                                        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                        <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > carol wrote:
                                        >
                                        > "...I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having
                                        > embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral' beauty in
                                        > my 32th year, (which incidentally has me still marveling), it's
                                        > worth noting that I know that at that time, I wasn't ripe to absorb
                                        > the `living' meaning of the statement concerning Zarathustra and
                                        > Christ.
                                        >
                                        > (Of course, Z's soul/spirit's participation in the mystery was
                                        quite
                                        > THE exception)
                                        >
                                        > For this, I was only really able to incorporate into my conscious
                                        > experience, in a living way, without hesitation, only recently,
                                        just
                                        > past my mid forties.
                                        >
                                        > Would YOU say that this `mature' experience points towards the
                                        > reasons why Steiner insisted on individuals waiting until their
                                        > forties before assuming an `authoritative' voice vis ä vis
                                        > spiritual science?
                                        >
                                        > As opposed to creating (deciphering) theories/art forms from
                                        > within `the lively experience of youth'.
                                        >
                                        > Here are two distinct life stages which are spaced out and differ
                                        in
                                        > caracter: exceptional creative inspiration within (the fountain of)
                                        > youth and unwavering conscious soul experience (through having
                                        > processed enough complex `life' experiences and also from
                                        possessing
                                        > an intuitive experience of mortality)
                                        >
                                        > Would you like to elaborate on these ideas? Carol."
                                        >
                                        > Bradford comments;
                                        >
                                        > Carol it is great to hear your spiritual voice. (As thought is
                                        > spiritual activity). For those of us who are not Zarathustra, we
                                        can
                                        > dig up example after biographical example of how our unprepared,
                                        and
                                        > semi-karmically prepared I AM's start facing our instincts at the
                                        30
                                        > to the 35 mark. Distinctly we can fetch Bill Gates and we can note
                                        > how his attention, mission, destiny, certainly centered on the
                                        > objectification of the Global Intelligence that could well up,
                                        gush
                                        > upwards from the deep gorge of untapped human vision, in
                                        > connectedness everywhere. Thus all those particpating, if they
                                        have
                                        > the means, would be faced with a storm of hidden information, vast
                                        > fingertip libraries of humanity, Porn, and instincts, raw thought,
                                        > Orwellian thought, Luciferically watered down or poison pill laced
                                        > thought. Ahrimanic data, numbers, cold cruel pictures of human
                                        > beastliness, the worst and most hideous beastliness in all of the
                                        > beastly kingdoms.
                                        >
                                        > With this information it is not hard to see with senstive artistic
                                        > imagination and intuition how hardened, rigidified and icy
                                        > standpoints congeal to Horns. Ten horns or horned beasts that
                                        > represent rigidified, forming slowly, Corporate Political systems
                                        > that calcify into overall materialistic mind sets, that sit
                                        > comfortably in tens of millions.
                                        >
                                        > When you add nano technology and how ahrimanic forces which have
                                        the
                                        > intent to rip fragments of cloned humanity out of the karmic star
                                        > fabric, such a fantasy as depicted in films like the "The
                                        > Island" "Gattica" "Blade Runner" ...where humans are grown for
                                        > replacement and organ parts, for Gold and Immortality and serve
                                        the
                                        > calcification of the disease avarice, the entire Corporate anti-
                                        > Sophia realm of The Whore of Babylon, isn't even hard to picture
                                        it
                                        > developing out of human instincts the way John saw it.
                                        >
                                        > John did the best he could to describe it, rising up out of the
                                        > intinctual morass of humanity, as a great congealing Anti-Human
                                        > factoring.John's Whore of Babylon was the Shadow on Earth of
                                        bright
                                        > Sophia Star wisdom fallen into human snares. Steiner updated and
                                        > filled in some of the blanks that John left as theory and Steiner
                                        > brought us into current Michael Speak which is different than
                                        > Orwell's NEWSPEAK. At the Dawn of the Age of Light we were given
                                        > updates and clarifications of all that was semi clouded and
                                        confused
                                        > coming from human I AM events.
                                        >
                                        > "Newspeak was the official language of Oceania and had been
                                        devised
                                        > to meet the ideological needs of Ingsoc, or English Socialism. In
                                        > the year 1984 there was not as yet anyone who used Newspeak as his
                                        > sole means of communication, either in speech or writing. The
                                        > leading articles in The Times were written in it, but could only
                                        be
                                        > carried out by a specialist. It was expected that Newspeak would
                                        > have finally superseded Oldspeak (or Standard English) by about
                                        the
                                        > year 2050"
                                        >
                                        > Seattle Times:
                                        >
                                        > "The use of powerful and well-placed words and images worked for
                                        > INGSOC. Its slogan — war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance
                                        is
                                        > strength — fits like a truncheon in the cradle of shattered
                                        bone..."
                                        >
                                        > Bradford continues;
                                        >
                                        > Intelligent human beings don't have to be reminded that Orwell did
                                        > us a service in writing his "1984". Grotesque human regime
                                        examples
                                        > can be given that go back to France and Phillip the Fair that
                                        > overturned anything to do with the feeble voice of the Magna
                                        Carta,
                                        > on through the regime of the Inquisition and the torturing of the
                                        > Templars giving us a mid-line of 1332 that lasted well beyond that
                                        > period, to Stalin, Nazi Germany, Mao, and again the little section
                                        > of time at the dawn of the 21st century, reveals once again the
                                        > activiation of this Karmic Group, intent on ripping fragments of
                                        the
                                        > I AM out of the Star patterns. How?
                                        >
                                        > Shakespeare and all that we could, if we so desired, to understand
                                        > regarding why Ahriman wishes to destroy the tool of human karma by
                                        > creating on Earth cloned replications that rip human karma to
                                        > shreds, is simply there before us in the little poetic tragedy of
                                        > the Kennedy brothers and Romeo and Juliet.
                                        >
                                        > "When he shall die take him and cut him out into stars and he
                                        shall
                                        > make the face of heaven so fine that all the world will be in love
                                        > with night and pay no worship to the garish sun." Quoting
                                        > Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, Robert Kennedy at the Democratic
                                        > National Convention, 8/27/64." TAKE HIM AND CUT HIM OUT INTO
                                        STARS.
                                        > As we do when we cut little stars that are all the same because we
                                        > have scissors and we can see how the folded paper is all linked
                                        into
                                        > a whole.
                                        >
                                        > Bradford concludes;
                                        >
                                        > Carol and I agree that ripening, the immense instincts, those same
                                        > instincts that rose up when the milkman in Amish PA. America, at
                                        32,
                                        > took innocent girls hostage because he could not bear to see what
                                        > the I AM of his conscience knew of his own dark, dark, intent. And
                                        > what happens when we humans get to know all the secrets of our
                                        dark,
                                        > dark intents, that are swirling in the depths of our instincts?
                                        Bill
                                        > Gates opened these vast doors to the gurgling flood gates and
                                        surge
                                        > of all that is wisdom in humanity, our own Steiner Internet and
                                        > Archive had to struggle with complacent Anthros and still does, to
                                        > meet the vast instincts humanity carries and antidote them with
                                        > Michael Speak or Michael thought.
                                        >
                                        > We know that adults on the path of Initiation Schooling get to
                                        know
                                        > that these dark intincts are not meant to hit the intellect with
                                        > their raw intensity without some preparation. That at 29 at the
                                        > Saturn return, to well into the Jupiter and Saturn age of our
                                        > biography we are entrusted to digest and ripen the kind of balance
                                        > of wisdom that does not place the human being alone with his
                                        demons
                                        > but gives him or her the tools of the Consciousness Soul.
                                        >
                                        > But Bill Gates opened the world to vast, vast instincts, insights,
                                        > wisdom and tools....And Bill Gates was a mere 33 to 35, and if we
                                        > just look at Bill Gates Mission, we understand that if we take the
                                        > POF and open the mystery...Now kids, open the mystery literally
                                        > means looking down into the dark well of our deepest instincts,
                                        and
                                        > the roots of our I AM. What truly disturbs one and presents one
                                        with
                                        > another aspect of looking down the Well of the I AM and looking at
                                        > the overview and understanding the horrific courage it requires to
                                        > ripen and mature... there is the example of the very well we are
                                        > speaking about, in the film, "The Ring".
                                        >
                                        > Naturally it is but a film. It is but a depiction of how we
                                        > penetrate to a most horrific mystery. A mystery that has addictive
                                        > power to it. It is a disturbing little film, "The Ring". Aside
                                        from
                                        > looking down the deep well and ripening our intelligence to face
                                        the
                                        > problems we have opened up, (opened a can of worms) the POF and
                                        all
                                        > aspects of Spiritual Science call upon the student to gain their I
                                        > AM compass orientation from the depths of looking into the deepest
                                        > mysteries of the Well and roots and connections to the depths of
                                        the
                                        > Earth.
                                        >
                                        > Take for instance that the Water that Christ changes into wine
                                        that
                                        > is drawn from a well, and put in clay jars, six or seven clay
                                        jars.
                                        > Now Christ is going to first change this water from the deep
                                        bowels
                                        > of the etheric earth, into wine. Ah but he doesn't just decide to
                                        do
                                        > that, there is a wedding and a surge of joy and what we call
                                        > happiness and intoxication, a point where lots of people get
                                        > together, contribute and support, offer freely their gifts to some
                                        > couple who is being wed. An astral surge runs through the close
                                        knit
                                        > wedding guests, they make bread, contribute tables, sow fabrics,
                                        get
                                        > dressed up, the farmer planted, the plants grew, the meals were
                                        > cooked, the bread and flat breads were made from the flower, the
                                        > donkey's turned the stone wheel that ground the wheat. Vegtables
                                        > helped, gnomes helped, salamandars served the Donkey's, fires and
                                        > ovens had been made and trees grew fruits and were cultivated by
                                        > human hands and olives were sprinkled over the greens and the
                                        bread
                                        > dipped in the olive oils. These utter basics are all contributed,
                                        > not from a super-market but rather are all called forth from the
                                        > treasure of old instinctive causes for celebration, community and
                                        > human union. Instinctive Causes for celebration.
                                        >
                                        > Christ adds to this a new force where enthusiasm and joy change
                                        the
                                        > entire chemical forces in the clay jars, and the water drawn from
                                        > the deep regions of the Earth, in a small etheric science miracle,
                                        a
                                        > new cognitive force has been changed by the I AM's participation.
                                        > The I AM has plenty of sweet instincts in the well and in these
                                        > days, what seems to sell are plenty of bitter forces that lurk
                                        like
                                        > monsters in the well as well. Steiner was an I AM initiate and he
                                        > like the rest of us was living in a science age where the I AM was
                                        > not even on the table as a consideration. Steiner as an I AM
                                        > initiate went down the well and brought out Biodynamics, Waldorf
                                        > Education, Eurythmy and the full fledged Science of the I AM in
                                        > potential.
                                        >
                                        > And one more thing, the film "The Ring" centers around the problem
                                        > of one child who has something so potent, say, a complete 24/7
                                        wide
                                        > awake, immortal force in her that cannot die and cannot be
                                        removed,
                                        > it is an acute problem that can either be understood as our
                                        immortal
                                        > core or rejected and become the curse and bane of humanity by
                                        > rejecting it. We cannot kill this immortal core. We can only learn
                                        > to ripen our courage to grasp how each individual child can be
                                        given
                                        > the tools and foundation to cope with the great thoughts of the
                                        > world and navigate and be given a compass that holds to a true
                                        > Spiritual North.
                                        >
                                        > Naturally adults who are morally ripened individual are able to
                                        > educate children and one of the Miracles of the Science of the
                                        > Consciousness Soul is the conscious curriculum structure of
                                        Waldorf
                                        > Education. Biodynamics is another raw Science of the Consciousness
                                        > Soul and a victory of the I AM in the instincts of the Earth and
                                        > Stars. Waldorf Education extends into the Angelic intervention
                                        where
                                        > humans can plant the tools of consciousness that will be needed so
                                        > that by age 32 to 72 humanity can ripen the immense depth of the I
                                        > AM. Because as Carol has said, we are not Zarathustra's. We are
                                        slow
                                        > and stubborn humans.
                                        >
                                        > Zarathustra had consolidated most of his former faculties by age
                                        > TWELVE. So Zarathustra's twelve is like our age 30 in terms of the
                                        I
                                        > Am ratio of speed and growth compared to the physical body of
                                        seven
                                        > years and the etheric body and the astral body and finally the
                                        speed
                                        > of the I AM are all differently paced clocks in the human psyche.
                                        >
                                      • holderlin66
                                        The tell tale signs of a hot choleric character profile, who merges with fire, the fire of ideas, the candle flame, and writes a wonderful play on that flame
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Nov 19, 2006
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                                          The tell tale signs of a hot choleric character profile, who merges
                                          with fire, the fire of ideas, the candle flame, and writes a
                                          wonderful play on that flame called the Candle Maker that had
                                          ignited like a lit flame in his intellect. Bruno represents living
                                          and dying by the fiery temperament and character of the choleric
                                          thinker, doer, who feeds off resistance and human ignorance in the
                                          dawning age of mighty light that ripped through his thinking.

                                          Bruno and Waldorf education understands human realities as the basis
                                          of grasping that Bruno was born near the active sulphur spewing
                                          volcano Vesuvius and we can see how powerfully this environment
                                          infused into his blood the fire salamanders from our previous
                                          temperament studies. When we actually understand the clues of
                                          various individual destinies, we can also take into consideration
                                          where an individual grew up and was born and what impressed his
                                          early etheric development. Here we see what impressed Giordano
                                          Bruno's early etheric development.

                                          http://pages.zoom.co.uk/thuban/html/bruno.html

                                          "In the year 1548 an Italian boy was born in the little town of
                                          Nola, not far from Vesuvius. Although, he spent the greater part of
                                          his life in hostile and foreign countries he was drawn back to his
                                          home at the end of his travels and after he had written nearly
                                          twenty books.

                                          When he was thirteen years old he began to go to school at the
                                          Monastery of Saint Domenico. It was a famous place. Thomas Aquinas,
                                          himself a Dominican, had lived there and taught. Within a few years
                                          Bruno had become a Dominican priest.

                                          It was not long before the monks of Saint Dominico began to learn
                                          something about the extraordinary enthusiasm of their young
                                          colleague. He was frank, outspoken and lacking in reticence. It was
                                          not long before he got himself into trouble. It was evident that
                                          this boy could not be made to fit into Dominican grooves. One of
                                          the first things that a student has to learn is to give the teacher
                                          the answers that the teacher wants. The average teacher is the
                                          preserver of the ancient land marks. The students are his audience.
                                          They applaud but they must not innovate. They must learn to labor
                                          and to wait. It was not Bruno's behavior but his opinions that got
                                          him into trouble.

                                          He ran away from school, from his home town, from his own country
                                          and tried to find among strangers and foreigners a congenial
                                          atmosphere for his intellectual integrity that he could not find at
                                          home. It is difficult not to get sentimental about Bruno. He was a
                                          man without a country and, finally, without a church.

                                          Bruno was interested in the nature of ideas. Although the name was
                                          not yet invented it will be perfectly proper to dub Bruno as an
                                          epistemologist, or as a pioneer Semanticist. He takes fresh stock
                                          of the human mind."

                                          http://snowbarsk.autoklad.com/images/zasimovich/sculpture/5.jpg

                                          Choleric type;

                                          Now the hot blooded and fiery choleric, can be found in Emergency
                                          Rooms and in Medics everywhere. They are not always fiery red-headed
                                          carrot tops that always stare at you with 'come on, go ahead, I can
                                          take ya' faces. That fire appears in the soft embering glow of
                                          Steiner's in depth lectures, fiery Michael forces supercharged his
                                          blood, where the warmth in his Iron and Light ignited spirit flares
                                          that revealed clarity where there was gathering darkness. His words
                                          rang as consecrated light in all directions. Fission, fusion and
                                          Iron centered sun spirituality cooked Steiner's rich dishes with a
                                          warm, kindled, human blaze.

                                          But then again, on the battle front of life, saving lives, from fire
                                          men and women to police and swat teams to search and rescue on the
                                          high seas, to special forces teams, you hear the choleric
                                          shout, 'GO, GO, GO, GO!'. Adrenaline junkies can be found working
                                          rush hours in restaurants, on the cooking line in the heat of the
                                          battle, where the grills spit fire right in their faces and they
                                          spit back. Choleric fire is in all of us, even Tiger Woods breaks
                                          from his Zen mode to get really pissed off sometimes.

                                          "Some people – and all narcissists – are addicted to excitement, to
                                          the adrenaline rush, to the danger inevitably and invariably
                                          involved. They are the adrenaline junkies. All narcissists are
                                          adrenaline junkies – but not all adrenaline junkies are narcissists.

                                          Thus, an adrenaline junkie must have a supply, a feed, which always
                                          comes with invented excitement, real or invented drama or emotional
                                          drama queens that have choleric forces in their feeling life. We can
                                          understand that choleric forces or any of the other temperaments can
                                          lodge themselves, not only in the will, but in the feeling, and in
                                          the region of mental aggression. On the one hand solid Choleric
                                          types are described as closer to the ground, Napoleonic and over
                                          confident. In a pinch you know that a Choleric will cover your back,
                                          fight to the death and remain in the game though anxiety is
                                          everywhere and the odds against you are everywhere a great choleric
                                          will be the last face you see before you pass out.
                                        • holderlin66
                                          Correction fire elemental of the choleric system http://phopro.ie/earthspirit/fire_salamander.jpg http://www.matrifocus.com/IMB05/images/fire-salamander-sm.jpg
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Nov 19, 2006
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