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Re: Amoeba contra Manu

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  • holderlin66
    In addition to various ways to describe the human being, they amount to several, lets say for the present, FOUR, integrated forces that have their origin in
    Message 1 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
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      In addition to various ways to describe the human being, they amount
      to several, lets say for the present, FOUR, integrated forces that
      have their origin in the already refined substance of the stars,
      that we term Fire, Air, Water and Earth. So the educator and
      psychologist such as Jung and Steiner or Jungians and Steinerians,
      have entered the workshop of human resources and the CIA has entered
      the arena of education in order to wallpaper over the source of
      these Etheric realities that each human soul brings with them when
      they incarnate.

      In previous research I have described how the vast origins of active
      and particpatory elemental beings come into service and incarnation
      with the child. Only slowly, and we have described on this list only
      recently how the etheric heart slowly ripens with the astral heart
      and slowly ripens to become the central sun of the I AM heart. Here
      the human personality shines and illuminates themselves down to the
      core of their being. Glocker and Staley on this list have previously
      researched the Etheric Heart and Robert Mason vividly provided
      additonal research to the subject.

      But then the personality absorbs the work of the elemental beings
      who reprsent fire - air - water and earth in ourselves, blood fire,
      lung and heart beat in accord with the precession of 25,920 in synch
      with breathing, water in the terms of how Christ offered that Man
      must be born of Fire and Water or etheric lymphatic mysteries and
      the conquering fire of unconditional Logos illuminated Love which
      brilliantly flames in the human I AM, as that which is seriously
      recorded as the Transfiguration. All these are mighty science
      penetrations of the Cosmic I AM into the micro I Am of Man.

      But to build the bones, to build the blood, personality and
      temperaments that we try to discover in certain "compatibility
      tests" and these come in all sizes and shapes including the 'perfect
      computerized Love Match" and attempt to wallpaper over the mysteries
      that have been outlined above in the human personality, we need to
      be wary of. It really means that you make no effort to build for
      yourselves true etheric insights. So for Jungians and Spiritual
      Science students this is the origin, the starry quarters of our
      higher being have carried with us, active elemental worlds,
      salamandars, sylphs, nymphs and gnomes...Buddha released all these
      wonderful beings when he completed his emancipation of Spirit
      Selfhood on Earth.

      Buddha and Mother/ Dream I

      "One full moon night, sleeping in the palace, the queen had a vivid
      dream. She felt herself being carried away by four devas (spirits)
      to Lake Anotatta in the Himalayas. After bathing her in the lake,
      the devas clothed her in heavenly cloths, anointed her with
      perfumes, and bedecked her with divine flowers. Soon after a white
      elephant, holding a white lotus flower in its trunk, appeared and
      went round her three times, entering her womb through her right
      side. Finally the elephant disappeared and the queen awoke, knowing
      she had been delivered an important message, as the elephant is a
      symbol of greatness in Nepal. The next day, early in the morning,
      the queen told the king about the dream. The king was puzzled and
      sent for some wise men to discover the meaning of the dream."

      http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhism/lifebuddha/1lbud.htm

      Bradford sketches comments;

      Full Moon, watery mysteries, entering her womb through her right
      side, and FOUR DEVAS...Four Devas..Four different elemental beings
      that were the TEMPERAMENTS study for us on this list. Elemental
      Beings who serve the growth and development of the child and in this
      case these Devas are going to be freed up from having served the
      material and personal cohesion of this incarnating being, and it is
      very likely that in that incarnation, Buddha, will achieve what
      Buddhahood means, rank of Angel, and not needing to borrow the
      gnome, sylph, nymph or salamander beings, who have become immensely
      humanized and full of compassion and literally volunteer to serve
      when the Jesus task comes up to imbue the rich fountain of
      compassion in this Jesus Human.

      " Paracelsus added his two cents in the Middle Ages when he
      described human nature as being influenced by four kinds of spirits."

      Bradford comments;

      Four kinds of elemental spirits, four etheric personality assistants
      to serve the unfolding human development, brings us into the area of
      what we are seeing when we are seeing the qualities that we are
      seeing in each human personality.

      Paracelsus was a real doctor. A real seeing human, who did his
      homework and made his bones in mountain herbs, remedies in flowers,
      meadows, stones and stars. Paracelsus was a real Cosmos Taught,
      cosmos trained and probably carried insights from his past into his
      capacities as a human being named Paracelsus. Doctors also hated
      him.

      Humans are meant to see ever deeper into the matrix of human
      behavior. And surprise, what happens when we come across an
      elemental being that assists, and conforms itself to the human mood,
      and mingles between the sanguine sylph like sugar high, or the
      fiery/salamandar, run in our hot blooded adrenal forces that make
      adrenal junkies, firemen, and ambulance drivers so
      interesting...waiting for that FIRE. Then we have the big
      phlegmatic, horrific fast food elemental beings that have turned
      most Americans into chubby rolls of jiggly blubber. You can see
      these horrific ugly elementals parade themselves in TELETUBBY land.
      And of course the gnomish, reclusive, veiled and hooded, even to the
      point of wearing hoods, melancholics.

      What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
      friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
      within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
      exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
      in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
      taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
      our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child should
      not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
      friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent ASAP "Heart
      and Souls".

      Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
      called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
      people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
      air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
      need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
      and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to understand
      anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the dots
      that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
      Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything.

      http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107091/

      "Robert Downey, Jr. plays a young man whose life is going very well:
      he's engaged to Elisabeth Shue, he's got a lot of money working as a
      lawyer or such...until some old friends of his drop in--imaginary
      friends, that is. Sort of. Dead imaginary friends that only he can
      see.

      "Many years ago, some people boarded a bus, including Charles Grodin
      and Tom Sizemore. The bus flipped over a bridge and everyone died,
      going to heaven. But then they came back down involuntarily to
      Downey as a child and stayed with him for a few years. Every time
      they tried to leave him, they were pulled back to him. Until he was
      about eight, then they somehow managed to leave because they were
      influencing his schoolwork and life (I don't remember how they got
      out of it). Now they're back to haunt him again, because they need
      him to help get to heaven.

      holderlin had previously researched:

      "What the true Waldorf
      Teacher would aim for, is that all four of the fire, air, water and
      earth, all four of the Choleric, Sanguine, Phlegmatic or Melancholic
      temperaments would be of use and in balanced animation in every
      child. A true Waldorf Teacher knows that you want maximum mobility
      and that the child will need the buried treasures of the four ethers
      as they move through all the stages of life."

      Other supportive research to advanced psychology:

      "The earliest recorded attempts of humans to explain the differences
      among us are found in ancient astrology. Astrology said that the
      way the heavens were aligned when you were born determined your
      behavior. Astrologers used twelve constellations in the sky and
      four major groupings, symbolized by earth, air, fire, and water.
      They claimed that the movement of the sun, moon, and planets would
      influence your behavior patterns or your fate.

      Thousands of years ago, stars were what they went by, and your
      personality was determined "out there" in the heavens.

      Then, about 400 B.C., Hippocrates (the "Father of Medicine")
      developed a concept of "humours." He introduced a radical idea that
      said personality was determined by elements inside your body, not
      the stars outside your body. For a well-balanced temperament, he
      thought you needed equal amounts of the 4 body fluids: black bile,
      yellow bile, blood, and phlegm. (Delightful, huh?)

      Hippocrates associated his "humours" with Temperament names. Many
      people are familiar with them: Choleric, Phlegmatic, Sanguine, and
      Melancholic. (I'm still fond of using these names sometimes.) So
      that's when the naming game started, and everybody came up with
      their version and their names for these four types. Paracelsus
      added his two cents in the Middle Ages when he described human
      nature as being influenced by four kinds of spirits. Hindu wisdom
      proposes four central desires, and even the American Indian Medicine
      Wheel features four spirit keepers similar to the Temperaments.

      If we study the ways personality have been described over the past
      25 centuries (there are even references in the Bible!), we discover
      a consistent tendency for behavior to sort itself into four basic
      activity patterns. These patterns represent the four Temperaments.
      In other words, there are four common threads:

      Four Personality Types

      Hippocrates (450BC)
      Sanguine
      Melancholic
      Phlegmatic
      Choleric

      Plato (350BC)
      Artistic
      Civic
      Scientific
      Philosophic

      Galen (250AD)
      Excited
      Serious
      Tranquil
      Enthused

      Paracelsus (1530)
      Changeable
      Industrious
      Curious
      Devoted

      Adickes (1905)
      Innovative
      Traditional
      Skeptical
      Doctrinaire

      Spranger (1914)
      Aesthetic
      Economical
      Theoretical
      Ethical

      Kretschmer (1930)
      Hypomanic
      Depressive
      Anaesthetic
      Hyperaesthetic

      Fromm (1947)
      Exploiting
      Hoarding
      Marketing
      Receptive

      Myers (1955)
      Realistic
      Scheduled
      Logical
      Emotional

      Keirsey/Bates (1960s)
      Dionysian
      Epimethean
      Promethean
      Appolonian

      Keirsey (1970s)
      Artisan
      Guardian
      Rational
      Idealist

      "It's important to recognize that Temperament is not just about
      observable behaviors, but rather about behavioral patterns that are
      evidence of underlying motivators -- core psychological needs that
      when not met drive us to get them met (and not always in a positive
      way), core values that drive the choices we make and the positions
      we take on things, and related talents that help us get those needs
      met. These underlying motivators must be inferred from the observed
      behavior patterns over time and in a variety of contexts.

      "The pattern of one's Temperament is there to begin with, like a DNA
      code in its infancy, and it emerges via interaction with the "field"
      or the environment. Thus we all have a core self for which the
      template is there from birth, and then we have a developed self that
      results from the interaction of the context or the situations we
      find ourselves in and the inner push from the core to grow and
      develop in certain ways to fulfill the pattern. The pattern will be
      there always, even though it may sometimes look like other patterns
      on the surface.

      "Temperament refers to the theme of the personality, the
      configuration. It gets at the very essence of what makes us who we
      are. Temperament identifies the basic psychological needs and core
      values that drive our behavior and our choices. Related to these
      basic needs are favorite talents, communication styles, approaches
      to, and perspectives on life."

      http://www.infj.com/INFJ_Temperament.htm
    • holderlin66
      CORRECTIONs: Meaning clearly and literally that opposite our physical sex, our etheric bodies carry an opposite mirror of our physical bodies. Which meant
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
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        CORRECTIONs:

        " Meaning clearly and literally that
        opposite our physical sex, our etheric bodies carry an opposite
        mirror of our physical bodies. Which meant that our etheric bodies
        are male if we have a female physical body and our etheric bodies
        are female if we have a male SHOULD READ - PHYSICAL (not etheric)
        BODY. There is fact you CAN take out of the Jungian scavenger hunt and
        replace back in the box of Steiner Science where it belongs."
      • Steve Hale
        ... ... The idea of synchronicity and the concept of eternal recurrence was made popular by Jung, yet he did not understand it to the degree necessary
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
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          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
          <snip>
          > And all these dispositions can only be based on karma, which is, even
          > in wooden psychology, a empirical and provable science. And this is
          > only provable is (for their sake) we abandon the whole notion (for
          > the time being) of spiritual energy from the planets (though you,
          > Bradford, and Steve Hale cannot do this) and reckon the idea of
          > synchroncity.

          The idea of synchronicity and the concept of eternal recurrence was
          made popular by Jung, yet he did not understand it to the degree
          necessary to make it anything more than the typical symbolic-mandalic,
          mumbo jumbo that you express with your own very typical new-age
          hodgepodge.

          Thus, synchronicity from the standpoint of spiritual science concerns
          the actual and progressive approach that is occurring right now, since
          the advent of the 5th cultural epoch, for a remembrance of our past
          lives. You'll find that experiences that come under the banner of
          Jungian synchronicity concern increasing and extended events wherein
          the sense of being here before is quite pronounced. I myself had an
          extended experience of this so-called "deja vu" back in the third grade
          when my school class went on a field trip to a railway station that had
          been maintained just as it was at the turn of the 20th century. And I
          remember being transfixed for the entire time we were there, feeling
          the sense that I had experienced this very environment before. It was
          very odd, yet quite a satisfying feeling as well.

          And what is important about the phenomena of synchronicity concerns the
          need to make contact with our past lives, as it represents the very
          substance of what will someday yield the fifth soul development; the
          anandamayakosha, or bliss sheath, which will serve to convey our
          immortality to ourselves as a certainty.

          Steve
        • carol
          Bradford spoke of the: elemental being that assists, and conforms itself to the human mood I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact a
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
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            Bradford spoke of the: "elemental being that assists, and conforms
            itself to the human mood"

            I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact
            a `predominance' of let's say the gnome elemental being within
            various individuals or is it an external expression of the soul's
            subconscious encounter with the Ahramanic being, of late:

            -Young people who extensively or not, body pierce themselves in
            unaesthetic places. Include to this, gross overuse of tattooing.

            Does Bradford have an answer?


            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
            <holderlin66@...> wrote:
            >
            > In addition to various ways to describe the human being, they
            amount
            > to several, lets say for the present, FOUR, integrated forces that
            > have their origin in the already refined substance of the stars,
            > that we term Fire, Air, Water and Earth. So the educator and
            > psychologist such as Jung and Steiner or Jungians and Steinerians,
            > have entered the workshop of human resources and the CIA has
            entered
            > the arena of education in order to wallpaper over the source of
            > these Etheric realities that each human soul brings with them when
            > they incarnate.
            >
            > In previous research I have described how the vast origins of
            active
            > and particpatory elemental beings come into service and
            incarnation
            > with the child. Only slowly, and we have described on this list
            only
            > recently how the etheric heart slowly ripens with the astral heart
            > and slowly ripens to become the central sun of the I AM heart.
            Here
            > the human personality shines and illuminates themselves down to
            the
            > core of their being. Glocker and Staley on this list have
            previously
            > researched the Etheric Heart and Robert Mason vividly provided
            > additonal research to the subject.
            >
            > But then the personality absorbs the work of the elemental beings
            > who reprsent fire - air - water and earth in ourselves, blood
            fire,
            > lung and heart beat in accord with the precession of 25,920 in
            synch
            > with breathing, water in the terms of how Christ offered that Man
            > must be born of Fire and Water or etheric lymphatic mysteries and
            > the conquering fire of unconditional Logos illuminated Love which
            > brilliantly flames in the human I AM, as that which is seriously
            > recorded as the Transfiguration. All these are mighty science
            > penetrations of the Cosmic I AM into the micro I Am of Man.
            >
            > But to build the bones, to build the blood, personality and
            > temperaments that we try to discover in certain "compatibility
            > tests" and these come in all sizes and shapes including
            the 'perfect
            > computerized Love Match" and attempt to wallpaper over the
            mysteries
            > that have been outlined above in the human personality, we need to
            > be wary of. It really means that you make no effort to build for
            > yourselves true etheric insights. So for Jungians and Spiritual
            > Science students this is the origin, the starry quarters of our
            > higher being have carried with us, active elemental worlds,
            > salamandars, sylphs, nymphs and gnomes...Buddha released all these
            > wonderful beings when he completed his emancipation of Spirit
            > Selfhood on Earth.
            >
            > Buddha and Mother/ Dream I
            >
            > "One full moon night, sleeping in the palace, the queen had a vivid
            > dream. She felt herself being carried away by four devas (spirits)
            > to Lake Anotatta in the Himalayas. After bathing her in the lake,
            > the devas clothed her in heavenly cloths, anointed her with
            > perfumes, and bedecked her with divine flowers. Soon after a white
            > elephant, holding a white lotus flower in its trunk, appeared and
            > went round her three times, entering her womb through her right
            > side. Finally the elephant disappeared and the queen awoke, knowing
            > she had been delivered an important message, as the elephant is a
            > symbol of greatness in Nepal. The next day, early in the morning,
            > the queen told the king about the dream. The king was puzzled and
            > sent for some wise men to discover the meaning of the dream."
            >
            > http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhism/lifebuddha/1lbud.htm
            >
            > Bradford sketches comments;
            >
            > Full Moon, watery mysteries, entering her womb through her right
            > side, and FOUR DEVAS...Four Devas..Four different elemental beings
            > that were the TEMPERAMENTS study for us on this list. Elemental
            > Beings who serve the growth and development of the child and in
            this
            > case these Devas are going to be freed up from having served the
            > material and personal cohesion of this incarnating being, and it is
            > very likely that in that incarnation, Buddha, will achieve what
            > Buddhahood means, rank of Angel, and not needing to borrow the
            > gnome, sylph, nymph or salamander beings, who have become immensely
            > humanized and full of compassion and literally volunteer to serve
            > when the Jesus task comes up to imbue the rich fountain of
            > compassion in this Jesus Human.
            >
            > " Paracelsus added his two cents in the Middle Ages when he
            > described human nature as being influenced by four kinds of
            spirits."
            >
            > Bradford comments;
            >
            > Four kinds of elemental spirits, four etheric personality
            assistants
            > to serve the unfolding human development, brings us into the area
            of
            > what we are seeing when we are seeing the qualities that we are
            > seeing in each human personality.
            >
            > Paracelsus was a real doctor. A real seeing human, who did his
            > homework and made his bones in mountain herbs, remedies in flowers,
            > meadows, stones and stars. Paracelsus was a real Cosmos Taught,
            > cosmos trained and probably carried insights from his past into his
            > capacities as a human being named Paracelsus. Doctors also hated
            > him.
            >
            > Humans are meant to see ever deeper into the matrix of human
            > behavior. And surprise, what happens when we come across an
            > elemental being that assists, and conforms itself to the human
            mood,
            > and mingles between the sanguine sylph like sugar high, or the
            > fiery/salamandar, run in our hot blooded adrenal forces that make
            > adrenal junkies, firemen, and ambulance drivers so
            > interesting...waiting for that FIRE. Then we have the big
            > phlegmatic, horrific fast food elemental beings that have turned
            > most Americans into chubby rolls of jiggly blubber. You can see
            > these horrific ugly elementals parade themselves in TELETUBBY land.
            > And of course the gnomish, reclusive, veiled and hooded, even to
            the
            > point of wearing hoods, melancholics.
            >
            > What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
            > friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
            > within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
            > exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
            > in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
            > taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
            > our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child
            should
            > not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
            > friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent
            ASAP "Heart
            > and Souls".
            >
            > Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
            > called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
            > people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
            > air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
            > need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
            > and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to
            understand
            > anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the
            dots
            > that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
            > Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything.
            >
            > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107091/
            >
            > "Robert Downey, Jr. plays a young man whose life is going very
            well:
            > he's engaged to Elisabeth Shue, he's got a lot of money working as
            a
            > lawyer or such...until some old friends of his drop in--imaginary
            > friends, that is. Sort of. Dead imaginary friends that only he can
            > see.
            >
            > "Many years ago, some people boarded a bus, including Charles
            Grodin
            > and Tom Sizemore. The bus flipped over a bridge and everyone died,
            > going to heaven. But then they came back down involuntarily to
            > Downey as a child and stayed with him for a few years. Every time
            > they tried to leave him, they were pulled back to him. Until he was
            > about eight, then they somehow managed to leave because they were
            > influencing his schoolwork and life (I don't remember how they got
            > out of it). Now they're back to haunt him again, because they need
            > him to help get to heaven.
            >
            > holderlin had previously researched:
            >
            > "What the true Waldorf
            > Teacher would aim for, is that all four of the fire, air, water and
            > earth, all four of the Choleric, Sanguine, Phlegmatic or
            Melancholic
            > temperaments would be of use and in balanced animation in every
            > child. A true Waldorf Teacher knows that you want maximum mobility
            > and that the child will need the buried treasures of the four
            ethers
            > as they move through all the stages of life."
            >
            > Other supportive research to advanced psychology:
            >
            > "The earliest recorded attempts of humans to explain the
            differences
            > among us are found in ancient astrology. Astrology said that the
            > way the heavens were aligned when you were born determined your
            > behavior. Astrologers used twelve constellations in the sky and
            > four major groupings, symbolized by earth, air, fire, and water.
            > They claimed that the movement of the sun, moon, and planets would
            > influence your behavior patterns or your fate.
            >
            > Thousands of years ago, stars were what they went by, and your
            > personality was determined "out there" in the heavens.
            >
            > Then, about 400 B.C., Hippocrates (the "Father of Medicine")
            > developed a concept of "humours." He introduced a radical idea that
            > said personality was determined by elements inside your body, not
            > the stars outside your body. For a well-balanced temperament, he
            > thought you needed equal amounts of the 4 body fluids: black bile,
            > yellow bile, blood, and phlegm. (Delightful, huh?)
            >
            > Hippocrates associated his "humours" with Temperament names. Many
            > people are familiar with them: Choleric, Phlegmatic, Sanguine, and
            > Melancholic. (I'm still fond of using these names sometimes.) So
            > that's when the naming game started, and everybody came up with
            > their version and their names for these four types. Paracelsus
            > added his two cents in the Middle Ages when he described human
            > nature as being influenced by four kinds of spirits. Hindu wisdom
            > proposes four central desires, and even the American Indian
            Medicine
            > Wheel features four spirit keepers similar to the Temperaments.
            >
            > If we study the ways personality have been described over the past
            > 25 centuries (there are even references in the Bible!), we discover
            > a consistent tendency for behavior to sort itself into four basic
            > activity patterns. These patterns represent the four Temperaments.
            > In other words, there are four common threads:
            >
            > Four Personality Types
            >
            > Hippocrates (450BC)
            > Sanguine
            > Melancholic
            > Phlegmatic
            > Choleric
            >
            > Plato (350BC)
            > Artistic
            > Civic
            > Scientific
            > Philosophic
            >
            > Galen (250AD)
            > Excited
            > Serious
            > Tranquil
            > Enthused
            >
            > Paracelsus (1530)
            > Changeable
            > Industrious
            > Curious
            > Devoted
            >
            > Adickes (1905)
            > Innovative
            > Traditional
            > Skeptical
            > Doctrinaire
            >
            > Spranger (1914)
            > Aesthetic
            > Economical
            > Theoretical
            > Ethical
            >
            > Kretschmer (1930)
            > Hypomanic
            > Depressive
            > Anaesthetic
            > Hyperaesthetic
            >
            > Fromm (1947)
            > Exploiting
            > Hoarding
            > Marketing
            > Receptive
            >
            > Myers (1955)
            > Realistic
            > Scheduled
            > Logical
            > Emotional
            >
            > Keirsey/Bates (1960s)
            > Dionysian
            > Epimethean
            > Promethean
            > Appolonian
            >
            > Keirsey (1970s)
            > Artisan
            > Guardian
            > Rational
            > Idealist
            >
            > "It's important to recognize that Temperament is not just about
            > observable behaviors, but rather about behavioral patterns that are
            > evidence of underlying motivators -- core psychological needs that
            > when not met drive us to get them met (and not always in a positive
            > way), core values that drive the choices we make and the positions
            > we take on things, and related talents that help us get those needs
            > met. These underlying motivators must be inferred from the observed
            > behavior patterns over time and in a variety of contexts.
            >
            > "The pattern of one's Temperament is there to begin with, like a
            DNA
            > code in its infancy, and it emerges via interaction with
            the "field"
            > or the environment. Thus we all have a core self for which the
            > template is there from birth, and then we have a developed self
            that
            > results from the interaction of the context or the situations we
            > find ourselves in and the inner push from the core to grow and
            > develop in certain ways to fulfill the pattern. The pattern will be
            > there always, even though it may sometimes look like other patterns
            > on the surface.
            >
            > "Temperament refers to the theme of the personality, the
            > configuration. It gets at the very essence of what makes us who we
            > are. Temperament identifies the basic psychological needs and core
            > values that drive our behavior and our choices. Related to these
            > basic needs are favorite talents, communication styles, approaches
            > to, and perspectives on life."
            >
            > http://www.infj.com/INFJ_Temperament.htm
            >
          • opetha
            Hello Bradford OK, I understand what you re saying if only you wouldn t go so far ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of that
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
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              Hello Bradford

              OK, I understand what you're saying if only you wouldn't go so far
              ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of that
              psychological type.

              Jung's teaching was empirical as possible, he did not want to venture
              into the realm of spiritual sciences because he would leave mankind
              behind, which is what you tend to do. I don't agree with the notion
              that analytical psychology is a "scavenger hunt", the truth is that
              Jung and Steinar are like two sides of a coin, Jung of the
              unconscious and Steinar of the concious, and that you are biased
              because you represent, not a higher thinking, but a different HALF,
              and this is an empirical and provable thing (please don't argue with
              this--I know exactly what you will say). The set of four psychologicl
              types in Jung is not based on the same type of conscious thinking as
              all those quartets you gave me, and , unfortunately, is understood
              even less by spiritual thinking other philosophies.

              [I hope this comes out well in the post....]

              THINKING
              *
              *
              *
              INTUITION****************SENSATION
              *
              *
              *
              FEELING

              These are not vague concepts as in the elements and biles.
              Jung says of your THINKING type:

              "..there is still a another form of negative thinking, which at first
              glance might not be recognized as such, and that is THEOSOPHICAL
              THINKING, which today is rapidly spreading in all parts of the world,
              presumably in reaction to materialism of the recent past.
              Theosophical thinkng has an air that is not in the least reductive
              [that is, you will not come down to my level!!--Godot] since it
              exalts everything to a transcendental and world-embracing idea. A
              dream, for instance, is no longer just a dream, but an experience 'on
              another plane.' The herethereto fact of telepathy is very simply
              explained in 'vibrations' passing from one person to another. An
              ordinary nervous complaint is explained by the fact that something
              has collided with my 'astral body'.....We have only to open a
              theosophical book to be overwhelmed by the realization that
              everything is already explained, and that 'spiritual science' has
              left no enigmas unsolved. But, at bottom, this type of thinking is
              just as negative as materialistic thinking. When the latter regards
              psychology as chemical changes in the ganglia or ther extrusion and
              retraction of cell-pseudopodia or as internal secretion, this is as
              much a superstition as theosophy. The only thing is that theosophy
              reduces everything to eastern metaphysics.....Not only are both
              methods of explanation futile, they are actually destructive, because
              by diverting interest away from the main issue....to imaginary
              vibrations, they hamper any serious investigation of the problem by
              bogus explanation. Either kind of thinking is sterile and
              sterilizing. Its negative quality is due to the fact it is so
              indescribably cheap." -Psychological Types, X.2

              This cross of function types is an innate truth, not a conditioned
              one by meditation which any other quaternary of types would be.
              The "theosophical" thinking is not the I AM you think it is because
              it is the outer arm of this cross. You and Steve have written so
              much, but to me it doesn't quite speak my language, you use many
              metpahors and "force" words to prove you are excilerated, but in bias
              you will not reckon with the other half of mankind, like lucifer.
              Don't get me wrong, I am one wanting to develop my spiritual
              integrity, but it doesn't come quite as you think.

              You call me a "scavenger" and Mr. Hale says my talking is "new-age
              hodge-podge" (hang on !!--I thought you were the new-agers), which
              shows you are very combative in your own personalitistic ways and
              defensive of your drives, almost adolescent--and I have nothing
              against this, I will try to be fair but I'm still worried that you
              are UNABLE to be; and only stress this because, afterall, if you want
              to communicate with mankind you had better be considerate and not
              talk in the language you do of warped "power-words" to your own kind,
              and to your paying audience, because "mankind", as you maybe use that
              term, will NOT listen to you if you go so far ahead of them. What the
              other half of us CAN experience is our own unknown soul, which is the
              empirical unconscious (to reiterate Jung and Steinar are quite the
              opposites, Steinar was equally right because he had no
              unconsciousness, and what he did know of unconsciousness was
              conditioned by conscious metaphor and not by deductive reasoning---
              i.e. the dream-world is the "macrocosm" and not an instancing of sub-
              conscious complexes).

              A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school and
              shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use him as
              an example of someone who can be cured by analytical psychology, but
              NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the leaps of faith and
              consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars until he confronts
              himself on the Earth, no matter how "scavangering" this will be to
              him. You want to propound your science through cosmic rhetoric more
              than you want to heal, is this not so?

              Other (fundamental) thinking types with this type of "be all end all"
              thinking include Hitler and, on TV today, Docter Zakir Naik of the
              IRF and who claims that all sciences were written in the Q'URAN
              before they were discovered, proving God's greatness (and also that
              the Q'URAN is the most-divine poetry ever written !!). Both are great
              extraverted talkers because they BELEIVE 100% what they are saying is
              true, and the audience get cosmic about this, and propaganda rears
              its head. The unconsciouis has innate and fundamental referencing
              that can counteract any rarified thinking--but you anthroposophists
              cannot understand my language because the feeling-tone behnd yours.

              I take it my use of the word "karma" to you was a scavaging. I could
              equally say the same of Steinar's use of the word "unconscious". The
              natal horoscope progressed at 1/360th of its normal speed shows the
              symbols that, bad or good, will be activated in our course of life.
              These are synchronicities in so far that they give shape, heiroglyp
              and/or colour to unconscious archetypes without such, and give them a
              linear qualification. This is the best argument for the "spiritual
              sciences", this method of "psychological-astrology", because it is
              provable on the subjective plane and not on the objective. It is not
              scavaging in the sense that Jung is stealing something from your
              school, you have to be considerate and pay heed to this your opposite
              and compensator. The mandala was not new-age hodge-podge, it was a
              glimpse into the innateness of that horoscope and its centre as the
              SELF (or Brahm, the aura eminating from a plant was just one of the
              baised illusions Buddha destroyed).

              I would love to see aura and travel on the astral planet like you
              might do (I have already innitiated SOME magical virtues, still with
              the empirical unconsious undernieth, and still with my consideration
              of your mind set and abandining my own at those instances) but if I
              advance in this area it may not be because you have taught me but
              because I have taught myself. It may be because I am British and have
              not the type of whispy heads that you Americans have, but I cannot
              affiliate myself with something so biased and off centre and that is
              too depserate to convince like olf Adolf and Doctor Naik. The astral
              rewards are one thing--yes, I know that, but the abandonement of the
              emprirical unconscious (with mankind aong with it) is quite another.
              I will stick to my raja yoga and destroy your lucifer AND my ahriman.

              With love,
              Godot.








              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@> wrote:
              > <snip>
              > > And all these dispositions can only be based on karma, which is,
              even
              > > in wooden psychology, a empirical and provable science. And this
              is
              > > only provable is (for their sake) we abandon the whole notion
              (for
              > > the time being) of spiritual energy from the planets (though you,
              > > Bradford, and Steve Hale cannot do this) and reckon the idea of
              > > synchroncity.
              >
              > The idea of synchronicity and the concept of eternal recurrence was
              > made popular by Jung, yet he did not understand it to the degree
              > necessary to make it anything more than the typical symbolic-
              mandalic,
              > mumbo jumbo that you express with your own very typical new-age
              > hodgepodge.
              >
              > Thus, synchronicity from the standpoint of spiritual science
              concerns
              > the actual and progressive approach that is occurring right now,
              since
              > the advent of the 5th cultural epoch, for a remembrance of our past
              > lives. You'll find that experiences that come under the banner of
              > Jungian synchronicity concern increasing and extended events
              wherein
              > the sense of being here before is quite pronounced. I myself had
              an
              > extended experience of this so-called "deja vu" back in the third
              grade
              > when my school class went on a field trip to a railway station that
              had
              > been maintained just as it was at the turn of the 20th century.
              And I
              > remember being transfixed for the entire time we were there,
              feeling
              > the sense that I had experienced this very environment before. It
              was
              > very odd, yet quite a satisfying feeling as well.
              >
              > And what is important about the phenomena of synchronicity concerns
              the
              > need to make contact with our past lives, as it represents the very
              > substance of what will someday yield the fifth soul development;
              the
              > anandamayakosha, or bliss sheath, which will serve to convey our
              > immortality to ourselves as a certainty.
              >
              > Steve
              >
            • holderlin66
              carol wrote: I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact a `predominance of let s say the gnome elemental being within various individuals
              Message 6 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
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                carol wrote:

                "I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact
                a `predominance' of let's say the gnome elemental being within
                various individuals or is it an external expression of the soul's
                subconscious encounter" encounters....

                Bradford comments;

                Tatoo's are fads. But the attraction to being considered 'special'
                because you have a groovy tattoo is based mostly on the serious
                melancholic temperament. However because of the nature of
                faddishness, it is 'cool' to have body this and body that which is
                meaningless to the soul content. The soul content that these
                abstract soul scavengers think is cool is merely a fad like high
                school girls wearing very short navel exposed tee-shirts. I'm a
                teacher for heaven's sake, this is all unessential soul trivia. Just
                like rap, and baggy shorts and dressin like some punk gangsta. It
                means literally ' 0 '. None of these fads have secured any type of
                soul perception.

                The human soul when it comes into incarnation brings with it a
                suitcase full of fire, air, water, earth, personality features and
                traits that are true elemental servants. These eventually become
                modified well shaped plastic or mobile features of the animated
                personality. Once again please note, these beings are part of what
                we carry within our I AM and karmic package when we incarnate. These
                beings assist us and become integrated into our personality make-up
                until what we see as the type of personality, with their four
                traits, no longer reveals to the eye the elemental, yet the
                elemental is in there.

                Now gnomish, and Ahrimanic greys and predominating depressive
                elemental beings that form the melancholic dominating personality
                trait can be part of the actual ahrimanized and corrupted inner
                vision of the soul that are felt when there are rumors of alien
                Abductees. However the outline I am offering is the solid basis of
                what we carry from the spiritual world into physical incarnation and
                what Buddha carried and freed up and transformed and what we are
                assigned to transform. Part of our job is to humanized and free up
                these elemental servants as Buddha did, when we complete our
                development as humans. We don't get released from incarnation, from
                physical matter if have not acknowledged and learned of these four
                beings and forces in our nature as operative cosmic servants.

                Sanguine Type:

                The Sylph and the sylph type lends the personality terms like dumb
                blonde or shop till you drop joy boys and sunshine girls. Swooping,
                lightness, fun loving and generally in a sunshine mood, the sylph
                would tend to lift the human spirit, bring a smile to a sad face and
                when a little child is in a crying jag, sometimes it is the colorful
                sylph aspect of hidden temperament that must come out of the child
                and the child also gets to know, learns to get to know what that
                laughter triggers and how to understand laughter as a visitation and
                entrance into the sylph style of behavior that has to do with Air
                and Light. Air, light and joy as part of the old sylph being that
                has come with the child from the spiritual world, as part of its
                etheric foundation and can be used as part of its personality trait
                has also a downside.

                Sometimes when this personality trait dominates, we understand that
                the personality, the human personality is being protected by the
                sylph and the human being hides within the sylph light because the
                darkness all around the soul damages the human child and the
                darkness around that it saw when a child forced it to hide within
                the Sylph lightness, the unbearable lightness of being. And we can
                see how this lightness, lack of depth becomes a sort of personality
                crutch for the child as he/she develops. A place where no hard
                thoughts harm and people are given pleasure instead of pain to
                disguise their hurts. A lot of the sylph or sanguine natured adults
                have arisen due to childhood abuses in one way or another.

                http://www.wam.umd.edu/~llsp/sylph.jpg

                holderlin wrote:

                "What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
                friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
                within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
                exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
                in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
                taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
                our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child should
                not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
                friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent ASAP "Heart
                and Souls".

                "Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
                called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
                people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
                air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
                need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
                and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to understand
                anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the dots
                that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
                Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything."

                Phlegmatic Type:

                The water nixie and watery nymph enjoices the juices, the tastes and
                the good meals of sitting at fine dining. How do the wines taste?
                What springs and vineyards yield the finest wines? What makes you
                salivate and gets the Water Nymph/Phlegmatic side of your nature to
                rise up out of your physical body, your physical stone base and
                lends you the mood he/she brings forward?

                Teletubby's are the obnoxious little demon nymphs that have been
                fostered by a fast food, phat America, false saliviating taste-bud
                blubber, bouncing, over weight America, from children to their flaky
                trailer park parents, have been made into numbed, television rotted,
                staring vegtables, which is to insult the fine work that the water
                spirits do in vegetables.

                Who fooled the Nymph? Who has polluted her cosmic tastes, our
                intimate human cosmic waters, that Thetis, mother of Achilles is
                famous for? Monsanto and fully failed, misleading and whored taste-
                buds that have marketed supermarket crap that children must eat as
                fads, phat, and foul corporate profits to sustain their lies. I can
                tell you that Sanguine, Choleric and Melancholic natures are more
                prized in our fast paced society than the phlegmatic, steady, nearly
                photographic brain of the overweight phlegmatic is.

                http://snowbarsk.autoklad.com/images/zasimovich/sculpture/5.jpg

                Choleric type;

                Now the hot blooded and fiery choleric, can be found in Emergency
                Rooms and in Medics everywhere. They are not always fiery red-headed
                carrot tops that always stare at you with 'come on, go ahead, I can
                take ya' faces. That fire appears in the soft embering glow of
                Steiner's in depth lectures, fiery Michael forces supercharged his
                blood, where the warmth in his Iron and Light ignited spirit flares
                that revealed clarity where there was gathering darkness. His words
                rang as consecrated light in all directions. Fission, fusion and
                Iron centered sun spirituality cooked Steiner's rich dishes with a
                warm, kindled, human blaze.

                But then again, on the battle front of life, saving lives, from fire
                men and women to police and swat teams to search and rescue on the
                high seas, to special forces teams, you hear the choleric
                shout, 'GO, GO, GO, GO!'. Adrenaline junkies can be found working
                rush hours in restaurants, on the cooking line in the heat of the
                battle, where the grills spit fire right in their faces and they
                spit back. Choleric fire is in all of us, even Tiger Woods breaks
                from his Zen mode to get really pissed off sometimes.

                "Some people – and all narcissists – are addicted to excitement, to
                the adrenaline rush, to the danger inevitably and invariably
                involved. They are the adrenaline junkies. All narcissists are
                adrenaline junkies – but not all adrenaline junkies are narcissists.

                Thus, an adrenaline junkie must have a supply, a feed, which always
                comes with invented excitement, real or invented drama or emotional
                drama queens that have choleric forces in their feeling life. We can
                understand that choleric forces or any of the other temperaments can
                lodge themselves, not only in the will, but in the feeling, and in
                the region of mental aggression. On the one hand solid Choleric
                types are described as closer to the ground, Napoleonic and over
                confident. In a pinch you know that a Choleric will cover your back,
                fight to the death and remain in the game though anxiety is
                everywhere and the odds against you are everywhere a great choleric
                will be the last face you see before you pass out.

                When unable to secure "normal" Narcissistic Supply – adulation,
                recognition, fame, celebrity, notoriety, infamy, affirmation, or
                mere attention – the adrenaline junkie resorts to "abnormal"
                attention grabbers. He tries to obtain his drug – the thrills, the
                good feeling that comes with adrenalin – by behaving recklessly, by
                succumbing to substance abuse, or by living dangerously.

                Such narcissists – faced with a chronic state of deficient
                Narcissistic Supply – become criminals, or race drivers, or
                gamblers, or soldiers, or investigative journalists. They defy
                authority. They avoid safety, routine and boredom – no safe sex, no
                financial prudence, no stable marriage or career. They become
                peripatetic, change jobs, or lovers, or vocations, or avocations, or
                residences, or friendships often.

                But sometimes even these extreme and demonstrative steps are not
                enough. When confronted with a boring, routine existence – with a
                chronic and permanent inability to secure Narcissistic Supply and
                excitement – these people compensate by inventing thrills where
                there are none."

                http://phopro.ie/earthspirit/fire_salamander.jpg

                http://www.matrifocus.com/IMB05/images/fire-salamander-sm.jpg

                Melancholic type;

                The Melancholic earth dominated, nihilistic, Columbine depression,
                Nietzsche fixated, hooded rapper has a sharp wit. Often sees the
                bitter edges, the flaws, the inconsistencies and certainly
                gravitates and finds its deepest kindled light out of darkness. You
                could look at how Rembrandt took the darkness and found in it golden
                hues...as highly interesting.

                The compression of darkness and the usual Adam's family values of
                tatoos, dark flesh piercings, pain, S&M, torture, the daughter in
                the film "BeetleJuice" dressed in black and seeing dead people bring
                the soul into connection with the current cultural gesture of
                XXXXXtreme melancholic and enchained gnomes who must be sentenced,
                as the roots of trees, and mines are strip mined, and earth is
                carved up, the gnomes are sucked into a horrificaly depressing
                computerization of human intellectual forces.

                The Earth spirit gnome, ruled the biting wit of intellectual forces
                and now lurking in the mines and dark regions of the soul are
                Ahriman's horrific hordes. And sucked into the electro magnitic
                sphere, gnomes are compressed into Internet darkness where humans
                fail to see the depth and light that is in the intellect, the same
                as they refuse and fail to see the depths and ROOTS of the universe,
                the soul and the Spirit as the roots of a great Tree of the I AM,
                Yggdrassil. Wagner and Tolkien felt the dark tug of the gnome
                community, wiped out and forced into elemental slave labor within
                the the electronic, hi-tech communications systems, inventions and
                military experimentation.

                Vast bacteria, watery, laser, and hi-tech atomic table forces are
                being whored, harnassed demonized in labs and forced into elemental
                labor and etheric torture to bring epidemics, annhilation by fire,
                radiation, and disrupting earthquakes, tidal waves and many of them
                now merely human generated for selfless political ends from the far
                west. Because the human sylph, nymph, salamander and gnome forces in
                the healing processes of the human being are being trained literally
                as Tolkien described how the elves became Orcs. But the joke is on
                humanity. For these beings are literally ripping into the cosmic
                human model and the safeguards of the human healing systems by labs
                that the American people are paying for so that the surface
                intellect can remain in its ahrimanized slumber. This was not the
                Agel of Light our children came to participate in, but the its
                horrific opposite and it is U, U who sit there and read these things
                that have failed to IMAGINE clearly what is going on.

                This mighty potential and sacrifice of the melancholic gomes, where
                humans cannot think and they merely become the darkness, become
                nihilistic, become dangerous in their own stewing darkness, enjoy
                their selfish dangers, dark drugs and brooding faddishness...shames
                Hamlet and Hamlet is our own Consciousness Soul. Our Consciousness
                Soul does have a gesture and certainly the black suited Dr. Steiner
                and that sort of lecture fad, wouldn't have our usual melancholics
                and deep thinkers, now parading around in Hawaiian shirts now would
                they? Well they should play against type and certainly Steiner would
                not be all tatooed with dark coal tints under his eyes for that
                vampire effect, if he walked into a room today. But Anthros still
                see it that way. Anthros hardly would trust an infusion of happy
                rollicking Michaelites pulling up in their Harley's to give
                conferences and talks. They have to be conservative, sober and
                unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings
                latent in the Anthro, because Anthros just want to gawk and stare at
                the old b/w photos of Der Doctor, instead of revealing the bubbling
                life of the new Etheric Worlds. Eh?

                http://www.jazlink.com/jazlbums/England/HPIM0074.sized.jpg

                http://www.sculpturebyspirit.com/door.html
              • Steve Hale
                ... that ... Yes, Bradford writes alot, just as you write alot. Actually, I don t see much of a difference. Now, I try to write in brief because it serves to
                Message 7 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
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                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Bradford
                  >
                  > OK, I understand what you're saying if only you wouldn't go so far
                  > ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of
                  that
                  > psychological type.

                  Yes, Bradford writes alot, just as you write alot. Actually, I
                  don't see much of a difference. Now, I try to write in brief
                  because it serves to catch the eye, and maybe gets a response, which
                  is what I look for. I said you wrote "hodgepodge" because you were
                  pulling out all stops to write 'new-age' dribble, which some
                  possibly could have found offensive. In fact, I found your initial
                  post offensive and arrogant. And that is why I didn't respond to
                  indications of Steinerian concepts from his "Foundations of
                  Esotericism" lectures from 1905.

                  You are quite right in that Jung and Steiner represent a polarity;
                  just as Kant and Steiner represent a polarity from a philosophical
                  standpoint. This has all been gone over before, on that other
                  little ship called the s.s. minnow. Jung is to psychology what Kant
                  is to philosophy in terms of limits to knowledge and perception.
                  And Rudolf Steiner overcame these bounds for those that seek to
                  overcome such limits in order to go further in terms of knowledge
                  and being.

                  Esotericism and its relationship to modern thought is what interests
                  me. Spiritual science exists in order to extend thinking and
                  knowledge into the causal realm that stands behind external
                  phenomena. But you have to take up the study in earnest, just as
                  you have taken up your study of Jungian principles according to a
                  collective unconsciousness that is quite attractive to people today
                  because it leaves the mysteries and enigmas alone; except to engage
                  in conservative speculation about what things mean in the greater
                  course of events.

                  Thus, synchonicity and its phenomenal representation is a fact that
                  only spiritual science can truly penetrate into its causality as an
                  increasing experience of spiritual necessity. I didn't want to lose
                  that important point.

                  Steve
                • carol
                  Thanks so much! As for this; They have to be conservative, sober and unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings latent in the Anthro,
                  Message 8 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
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                    Thanks so much!

                    As for this;
                    They have to be conservative, sober and
                    unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings
                    latent in the Anthro, because Anthros just want to gawk and stare at
                    the old b/w photos of Der Doctor, instead of revealing the bubbling
                    life of the new Etheric Worlds. Eh?

                    I beleive it's changing with the younger generation's influence but
                    I agree with you, I was puzzled by it a few decades ago when I
                    apprached the 'community'; and also worth mentioning is the setbacks
                    at remaining dependent on group development. You're taliking to a
                    former minor Gothic who lived by Anthroposophy but could never feel
                    safe nor individual creative freedom anywhere near the 'community'.

                    I have the impression that it's changing; the few Anthros that I do
                    know have matured and are past their pretentious and competitive
                    years. Like what occurs within the general population, once you get
                    past a certain age, it's easier to appreciate one another.

                    Carol.




                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                    <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > carol wrote:
                    >
                    > "I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact
                    > a `predominance' of let's say the gnome elemental being within
                    > various individuals or is it an external expression of the soul's
                    > subconscious encounter" encounters....
                    >
                    > Bradford comments;
                    >
                    > Tatoo's are fads. But the attraction to being considered 'special'
                    > because you have a groovy tattoo is based mostly on the serious
                    > melancholic temperament. However because of the nature of
                    > faddishness, it is 'cool' to have body this and body that which is
                    > meaningless to the soul content. The soul content that these
                    > abstract soul scavengers think is cool is merely a fad like high
                    > school girls wearing very short navel exposed tee-shirts. I'm a
                    > teacher for heaven's sake, this is all unessential soul trivia.
                    Just
                    > like rap, and baggy shorts and dressin like some punk gangsta. It
                    > means literally ' 0 '. None of these fads have secured any type
                    of
                    > soul perception.
                    >
                    > The human soul when it comes into incarnation brings with it a
                    > suitcase full of fire, air, water, earth, personality features and
                    > traits that are true elemental servants. These eventually become
                    > modified well shaped plastic or mobile features of the animated
                    > personality. Once again please note, these beings are part of what
                    > we carry within our I AM and karmic package when we incarnate.
                    These
                    > beings assist us and become integrated into our personality make-
                    up
                    > until what we see as the type of personality, with their four
                    > traits, no longer reveals to the eye the elemental, yet the
                    > elemental is in there.
                    >
                    > Now gnomish, and Ahrimanic greys and predominating depressive
                    > elemental beings that form the melancholic dominating personality
                    > trait can be part of the actual ahrimanized and corrupted inner
                    > vision of the soul that are felt when there are rumors of alien
                    > Abductees. However the outline I am offering is the solid basis of
                    > what we carry from the spiritual world into physical incarnation
                    and
                    > what Buddha carried and freed up and transformed and what we are
                    > assigned to transform. Part of our job is to humanized and free up
                    > these elemental servants as Buddha did, when we complete our
                    > development as humans. We don't get released from incarnation,
                    from
                    > physical matter if have not acknowledged and learned of these four
                    > beings and forces in our nature as operative cosmic servants.
                    >
                    > Sanguine Type:
                    >
                    > The Sylph and the sylph type lends the personality terms like dumb
                    > blonde or shop till you drop joy boys and sunshine girls. Swooping,
                    > lightness, fun loving and generally in a sunshine mood, the sylph
                    > would tend to lift the human spirit, bring a smile to a sad face
                    and
                    > when a little child is in a crying jag, sometimes it is the
                    colorful
                    > sylph aspect of hidden temperament that must come out of the child
                    > and the child also gets to know, learns to get to know what that
                    > laughter triggers and how to understand laughter as a visitation
                    and
                    > entrance into the sylph style of behavior that has to do with Air
                    > and Light. Air, light and joy as part of the old sylph being that
                    > has come with the child from the spiritual world, as part of its
                    > etheric foundation and can be used as part of its personality trait
                    > has also a downside.
                    >
                    > Sometimes when this personality trait dominates, we understand that
                    > the personality, the human personality is being protected by the
                    > sylph and the human being hides within the sylph light because the
                    > darkness all around the soul damages the human child and the
                    > darkness around that it saw when a child forced it to hide within
                    > the Sylph lightness, the unbearable lightness of being. And we can
                    > see how this lightness, lack of depth becomes a sort of personality
                    > crutch for the child as he/she develops. A place where no hard
                    > thoughts harm and people are given pleasure instead of pain to
                    > disguise their hurts. A lot of the sylph or sanguine natured adults
                    > have arisen due to childhood abuses in one way or another.
                    >
                    > http://www.wam.umd.edu/~llsp/sylph.jpg
                    >
                    > holderlin wrote:
                    >
                    > "What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
                    > friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
                    > within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
                    > exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
                    > in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
                    > taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
                    > our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child
                    should
                    > not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
                    > friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent
                    ASAP "Heart
                    > and Souls".
                    >
                    > "Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
                    > called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
                    > people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
                    > air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
                    > need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
                    > and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to
                    understand
                    > anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the
                    dots
                    > that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
                    > Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything."
                    >
                    > Phlegmatic Type:
                    >
                    > The water nixie and watery nymph enjoices the juices, the tastes
                    and
                    > the good meals of sitting at fine dining. How do the wines taste?
                    > What springs and vineyards yield the finest wines? What makes you
                    > salivate and gets the Water Nymph/Phlegmatic side of your nature to
                    > rise up out of your physical body, your physical stone base and
                    > lends you the mood he/she brings forward?
                    >
                    > Teletubby's are the obnoxious little demon nymphs that have been
                    > fostered by a fast food, phat America, false saliviating taste-bud
                    > blubber, bouncing, over weight America, from children to their
                    flaky
                    > trailer park parents, have been made into numbed, television
                    rotted,
                    > staring vegtables, which is to insult the fine work that the water
                    > spirits do in vegetables.
                    >
                    > Who fooled the Nymph? Who has polluted her cosmic tastes, our
                    > intimate human cosmic waters, that Thetis, mother of Achilles is
                    > famous for? Monsanto and fully failed, misleading and whored taste-
                    > buds that have marketed supermarket crap that children must eat as
                    > fads, phat, and foul corporate profits to sustain their lies. I can
                    > tell you that Sanguine, Choleric and Melancholic natures are more
                    > prized in our fast paced society than the phlegmatic, steady,
                    nearly
                    > photographic brain of the overweight phlegmatic is.
                    >
                    > http://snowbarsk.autoklad.com/images/zasimovich/sculpture/5.jpg
                    >
                    > Choleric type;
                    >
                    > Now the hot blooded and fiery choleric, can be found in Emergency
                    > Rooms and in Medics everywhere. They are not always fiery red-
                    headed
                    > carrot tops that always stare at you with 'come on, go ahead, I can
                    > take ya' faces. That fire appears in the soft embering glow of
                    > Steiner's in depth lectures, fiery Michael forces supercharged his
                    > blood, where the warmth in his Iron and Light ignited spirit flares
                    > that revealed clarity where there was gathering darkness. His words
                    > rang as consecrated light in all directions. Fission, fusion and
                    > Iron centered sun spirituality cooked Steiner's rich dishes with a
                    > warm, kindled, human blaze.
                    >
                    > But then again, on the battle front of life, saving lives, from
                    fire
                    > men and women to police and swat teams to search and rescue on the
                    > high seas, to special forces teams, you hear the choleric
                    > shout, 'GO, GO, GO, GO!'. Adrenaline junkies can be found working
                    > rush hours in restaurants, on the cooking line in the heat of the
                    > battle, where the grills spit fire right in their faces and they
                    > spit back. Choleric fire is in all of us, even Tiger Woods breaks
                    > from his Zen mode to get really pissed off sometimes.
                    >
                    > "Some people – and all narcissists – are addicted to excitement, to
                    > the adrenaline rush, to the danger inevitably and invariably
                    > involved. They are the adrenaline junkies. All narcissists are
                    > adrenaline junkies – but not all adrenaline junkies are
                    narcissists.
                    >
                    > Thus, an adrenaline junkie must have a supply, a feed, which always
                    > comes with invented excitement, real or invented drama or emotional
                    > drama queens that have choleric forces in their feeling life. We
                    can
                    > understand that choleric forces or any of the other temperaments
                    can
                    > lodge themselves, not only in the will, but in the feeling, and in
                    > the region of mental aggression. On the one hand solid Choleric
                    > types are described as closer to the ground, Napoleonic and over
                    > confident. In a pinch you know that a Choleric will cover your
                    back,
                    > fight to the death and remain in the game though anxiety is
                    > everywhere and the odds against you are everywhere a great choleric
                    > will be the last face you see before you pass out.
                    >
                    > When unable to secure "normal" Narcissistic Supply – adulation,
                    > recognition, fame, celebrity, notoriety, infamy, affirmation, or
                    > mere attention – the adrenaline junkie resorts to "abnormal"
                    > attention grabbers. He tries to obtain his drug – the thrills, the
                    > good feeling that comes with adrenalin – by behaving recklessly, by
                    > succumbing to substance abuse, or by living dangerously.
                    >
                    > Such narcissists – faced with a chronic state of deficient
                    > Narcissistic Supply – become criminals, or race drivers, or
                    > gamblers, or soldiers, or investigative journalists. They defy
                    > authority. They avoid safety, routine and boredom – no safe sex, no
                    > financial prudence, no stable marriage or career. They become
                    > peripatetic, change jobs, or lovers, or vocations, or avocations,
                    or
                    > residences, or friendships often.
                    >
                    > But sometimes even these extreme and demonstrative steps are not
                    > enough. When confronted with a boring, routine existence – with a
                    > chronic and permanent inability to secure Narcissistic Supply and
                    > excitement – these people compensate by inventing thrills where
                    > there are none."
                    >
                    > http://phopro.ie/earthspirit/fire_salamander.jpg
                    >
                    > http://www.matrifocus.com/IMB05/images/fire-salamander-sm.jpg
                    >
                    > Melancholic type;
                    >
                    > The Melancholic earth dominated, nihilistic, Columbine depression,
                    > Nietzsche fixated, hooded rapper has a sharp wit. Often sees the
                    > bitter edges, the flaws, the inconsistencies and certainly
                    > gravitates and finds its deepest kindled light out of darkness. You
                    > could look at how Rembrandt took the darkness and found in it
                    golden
                    > hues...as highly interesting.
                    >
                    > The compression of darkness and the usual Adam's family values of
                    > tatoos, dark flesh piercings, pain, S&M, torture, the daughter in
                    > the film "BeetleJuice" dressed in black and seeing dead people
                    bring
                    > the soul into connection with the current cultural gesture of
                    > XXXXXtreme melancholic and enchained gnomes who must be sentenced,
                    > as the roots of trees, and mines are strip mined, and earth is
                    > carved up, the gnomes are sucked into a horrificaly depressing
                    > computerization of human intellectual forces.
                    >
                    > The Earth spirit gnome, ruled the biting wit of intellectual forces
                    > and now lurking in the mines and dark regions of the soul are
                    > Ahriman's horrific hordes. And sucked into the electro magnitic
                    > sphere, gnomes are compressed into Internet darkness where humans
                    > fail to see the depth and light that is in the intellect, the same
                    > as they refuse and fail to see the depths and ROOTS of the
                    universe,
                    > the soul and the Spirit as the roots of a great Tree of the I AM,
                    > Yggdrassil. Wagner and Tolkien felt the dark tug of the gnome
                    > community, wiped out and forced into elemental slave labor within
                    > the the electronic, hi-tech communications systems, inventions and
                    > military experimentation.
                    >
                    > Vast bacteria, watery, laser, and hi-tech atomic table forces are
                    > being whored, harnassed demonized in labs and forced into elemental
                    > labor and etheric torture to bring epidemics, annhilation by fire,
                    > radiation, and disrupting earthquakes, tidal waves and many of them
                    > now merely human generated for selfless political ends from the far
                    > west. Because the human sylph, nymph, salamander and gnome forces
                    in
                    > the healing processes of the human being are being trained
                    literally
                    > as Tolkien described how the elves became Orcs. But the joke is on
                    > humanity. For these beings are literally ripping into the cosmic
                    > human model and the safeguards of the human healing systems by labs
                    > that the American people are paying for so that the surface
                    > intellect can remain in its ahrimanized slumber. This was not the
                    > Agel of Light our children came to participate in, but the its
                    > horrific opposite and it is U, U who sit there and read these
                    things
                    > that have failed to IMAGINE clearly what is going on.
                    >
                    > This mighty potential and sacrifice of the melancholic gomes, where
                    > humans cannot think and they merely become the darkness, become
                    > nihilistic, become dangerous in their own stewing darkness, enjoy
                    > their selfish dangers, dark drugs and brooding faddishness...shames
                    > Hamlet and Hamlet is our own Consciousness Soul. Our Consciousness
                    > Soul does have a gesture and certainly the black suited Dr. Steiner
                    > and that sort of lecture fad, wouldn't have our usual melancholics
                    > and deep thinkers, now parading around in Hawaiian shirts now would
                    > they? Well they should play against type and certainly Steiner
                    would
                    > not be all tatooed with dark coal tints under his eyes for that
                    > vampire effect, if he walked into a room today. But Anthros still
                    > see it that way. Anthros hardly would trust an infusion of happy
                    > rollicking Michaelites pulling up in their Harley's to give
                    > conferences and talks. They have to be conservative, sober and
                    > unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings
                    > latent in the Anthro, because Anthros just want to gawk and stare
                    at
                    > the old b/w photos of Der Doctor, instead of revealing the bubbling
                    > life of the new Etheric Worlds. Eh?
                    >
                    > http://www.jazlink.com/jazlbums/England/HPIM0074.sized.jpg
                    >
                    > http://www.sculpturebyspirit.com/door.html
                    >
                  • opetha
                    Hello, Disfigurations in the Orient is the opposite of Transformations in the Occident , where would we be without ambiguity? We must face our devil
                    Message 9 of 30 , Oct 5, 2006
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                      Hello,

                      "Disfigurations in the Orient" is the opposite of "Transformations in
                      the Occident", where would we be without ambiguity? We must face our
                      devil sometime.

                      Tarot cards--that's why it appears "typical new-age", maybe a typical
                      filter is the case. But what I say is 100% eternal law of the dhamma,
                      so far as the unconscious as mulaprakriti is unchanging ideation from
                      which any spiritual world, in any epoch, is built.

                      Bless.

                      Godot.












                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hello Bradford
                      > >
                      > > OK, I understand what you're saying if only you wouldn't go so
                      far
                      > > ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of
                      > that
                      > > psychological type.
                      >
                      > Yes, Bradford writes alot, just as you write alot. Actually, I
                      > don't see much of a difference. Now, I try to write in brief
                      > because it serves to catch the eye, and maybe gets a response,
                      which
                      > is what I look for. I said you wrote "hodgepodge" because you
                      were
                      > pulling out all stops to write 'new-age' dribble, which some
                      > possibly could have found offensive. In fact, I found your initial
                      > post offensive and arrogant. And that is why I didn't respond to
                      > indications of Steinerian concepts from his "Foundations of
                      > Esotericism" lectures from 1905.
                      >
                      > You are quite right in that Jung and Steiner represent a polarity;
                      > just as Kant and Steiner represent a polarity from a philosophical
                      > standpoint. This has all been gone over before, on that other
                      > little ship called the s.s. minnow. Jung is to psychology what
                      Kant
                      > is to philosophy in terms of limits to knowledge and perception.
                      > And Rudolf Steiner overcame these bounds for those that seek to
                      > overcome such limits in order to go further in terms of knowledge
                      > and being.
                      >
                      > Esotericism and its relationship to modern thought is what
                      interests
                      > me. Spiritual science exists in order to extend thinking and
                      > knowledge into the causal realm that stands behind external
                      > phenomena. But you have to take up the study in earnest, just as
                      > you have taken up your study of Jungian principles according to a
                      > collective unconsciousness that is quite attractive to people today
                      > because it leaves the mysteries and enigmas alone; except to engage
                      > in conservative speculation about what things mean in the greater
                      > course of events.
                      >
                      > Thus, synchonicity and its phenomenal representation is a fact that
                      > only spiritual science can truly penetrate into its causality as an
                      > increasing experience of spiritual necessity. I didn't want to
                      lose
                      > that important point.
                      >
                      > Steve
                      >
                    • holderlin66
                      Godot wrote: A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use him as an
                      Message 10 of 30 , Oct 5, 2006
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                        Godot wrote:

                        "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school
                        and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use
                        him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                        psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                        leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                        until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                        how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound your
                        science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is this
                        not so?"

                        "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                        writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                        forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                        men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                        Things."

                        Bradford comments;

                        Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                        Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal. But we
                        can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical point
                        means better than the current Jungians.

                        John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age 33.
                        Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the world
                        over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the Declaration
                        of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing Religious
                        Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.

                        María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                        8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.

                        1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES

                        Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0

                        (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)

                        In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space of
                        just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become one of
                        the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                        finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with three
                        friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                        philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                        labeled "Transcendentalism."

                        The Human Life by George O'Neil

                        " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                        George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of Biography.
                        The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of seven-
                        year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the archetype
                        of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead particularly
                        after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly. The
                        book goes into detail about the need to understand the importance of
                        a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                        karmic companions, moon nodes etc.

                        In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The chart
                        has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea, and
                        karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived and I
                        personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                        myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                        unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.

                        George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work and
                        insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain even
                        through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a Mercury
                        Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."

                        Bradford concludes;

                        Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously we
                        have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures with
                        first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and the
                        change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart; the
                        astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                        personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                        heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                        human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33 years
                        of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to 1933
                        when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is Ahriman
                        who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.

                        What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is exposed to
                        all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It recrossed
                        his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to what we
                        have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful elemental
                        intensity and GUILT.

                        But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                        understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                        being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces that
                        truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I AM,
                        human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away from
                        his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age, when
                        Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                        twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of the
                        two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                        prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math and
                        interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world and
                        Man.

                        But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as possible
                        the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                        consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                        Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate
                        and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point.
                        Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the Christ
                        take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                        thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away, looking
                        down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully developed
                        etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                        function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and as
                        fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra to
                        hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts the
                        amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that Zarathustra
                        watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest prepared
                        human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this loving,
                        living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun Elohim
                        Christ.

                        It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that Zarathustra
                        had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a clarified
                        astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom ever
                        condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                        someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a gift to
                        something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine all
                        the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                        insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched althought
                        Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                        mysteries to us.

                        Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                        thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM live
                        fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33. Take
                        Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region of
                        the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this I
                        AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt the
                        karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world over
                        and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds, Goethe,
                        Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the Christ
                        event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic family
                        with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic family!!
                        Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                        viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                        Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                        Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson with
                        his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                        community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner titles
                        his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative of
                        Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?

                        Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the science
                        of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at age 30
                        to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting confrontation
                        with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                        structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                        Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say we
                        could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list of
                        insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding places
                        in the bushes.

                        This is all that you need to remember about the difference between
                        Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                      • opetha
                        Good day, THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH ! Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn t matter in the end, we all have our own opinions and beliefs.
                        Message 11 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
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                          Good day,

                          THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !

                          Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end, we
                          all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I would
                          rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the 33
                          and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed horoscope
                          they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33, 34,
                          or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.

                          Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                          saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto when
                          he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect lasts a
                          long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This system
                          has
                          never known to fail, and like your interpretations of synchronicity
                          , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by

                          (a) energy
                          or (b) causality

                          Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was not
                          a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of the
                          SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                          tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the jambu
                          tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                          energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                          quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the centre
                          was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                          types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                          have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).

                          Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying that
                          the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth by
                          a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from the
                          bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                          sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.

                          "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                          -Pythagoras

                          Godot.
















                          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66" <holderlin66@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Godot wrote:
                          >
                          > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school
                          > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use
                          > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                          > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                          > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                          > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                          > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound your
                          > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is this
                          > not so?"
                          >
                          > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                          > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                          > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                          > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                          > Things."
                          >
                          > Bradford comments;
                          >
                          > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                          > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal. But
                          we
                          > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                          point
                          > means better than the current Jungians.
                          >
                          > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age 33.
                          > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the world
                          > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the Declaration
                          > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing Religious
                          > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                          >
                          > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                          > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                          >
                          > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                          >
                          > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                          >
                          > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                          >
                          > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space of
                          > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become one
                          of
                          > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                          > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                          three
                          > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                          > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                          > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                          >
                          > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                          >
                          > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                          > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of Biography.
                          > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                          seven-
                          > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the archetype
                          > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                          particularly
                          > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly. The
                          > book goes into detail about the need to understand the importance
                          of
                          > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                          > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                          >
                          > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The chart
                          > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea, and
                          > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived and I
                          > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                          > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                          > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                          >
                          > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work and
                          > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain even
                          > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a Mercury
                          > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."
                          >
                          > Bradford concludes;
                          >
                          > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously we
                          > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                          with
                          > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and the
                          > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart; the
                          > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                          > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                          > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                          > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33 years
                          > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                          1933
                          > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is Ahriman
                          > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                          >
                          > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is exposed
                          to
                          > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                          recrossed
                          > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to what
                          we
                          > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful elemental
                          > intensity and GUILT.
                          >
                          > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                          > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                          > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces that
                          > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I AM,
                          > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away from
                          > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age, when
                          > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                          > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of the
                          > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                          > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math
                          and
                          > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world and
                          > Man.
                          >
                          > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as possible
                          > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                          > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                          > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate
                          > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point.
                          > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the Christ
                          > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                          > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away, looking
                          > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully developed
                          > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                          > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and as
                          > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra to
                          > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts
                          the
                          > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that Zarathustra
                          > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest prepared
                          > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this loving,
                          > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun Elohim
                          > Christ.
                          >
                          > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that Zarathustra
                          > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a clarified
                          > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom ever
                          > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                          > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a gift
                          to
                          > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine
                          all
                          > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                          > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched althought
                          > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                          > mysteries to us.
                          >
                          > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                          > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM live
                          > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33. Take
                          > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region of
                          > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this I
                          > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt the
                          > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world over
                          > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds, Goethe,
                          > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the Christ
                          > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                          family
                          > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                          family!!
                          > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                          > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                          > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                          > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                          with
                          > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                          > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner titles
                          > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative of
                          > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                          >
                          > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                          science
                          > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at age
                          30
                          > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting confrontation
                          > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                          > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                          > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say we
                          > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list of
                          > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding places
                          > in the bushes.
                          >
                          > This is all that you need to remember about the difference between
                          > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                          >
                        • carol
                          Dear Godot, Perhaps next time around you ll possess the great courage necessary to take on the `big picture . Please take note that your inner urge to
                          Message 12 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Dear Godot,

                            Perhaps next time around you'll possess the great courage necessary
                            to take on the `big picture'. Please take note that your inner urge
                            to directly wrestling with Anthroposophy has now
                            figuratively `sprinkled your soul with a light drizzle'.

                            May the heavens ray down upon you... in sympathy, Carol

                            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Good day,
                            >
                            > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !
                            >
                            > Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end,
                            we
                            > all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I
                            would
                            > rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the
                            33
                            > and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed
                            horoscope
                            > they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33,
                            34,
                            > or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.
                            >
                            > Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                            > saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto
                            when
                            > he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect
                            lasts a
                            > long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This
                            system
                            > has
                            > never known to fail, and like your interpretations of synchronicity
                            > , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by
                            >
                            > (a) energy
                            > or (b) causality
                            >
                            > Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was
                            not
                            > a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of
                            the
                            > SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                            > tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the
                            jambu
                            > tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                            > energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                            > quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the
                            centre
                            > was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                            > types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                            > have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).
                            >
                            > Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying
                            that
                            > the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth
                            by
                            > a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from
                            the
                            > bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                            > sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.
                            >
                            > "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                            > -Pythagoras
                            >
                            > Godot.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66" <holderlin66@>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Godot wrote:
                            > >
                            > > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish
                            school
                            > > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will
                            use
                            > > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                            > > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                            > > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                            > > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                            > > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound
                            your
                            > > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                            this
                            > > not so?"
                            > >
                            > > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                            > > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                            > > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                            > > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                            > > Things."
                            > >
                            > > Bradford comments;
                            > >
                            > > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                            > > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal.
                            But
                            > we
                            > > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                            > point
                            > > means better than the current Jungians.
                            > >
                            > > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age
                            33.
                            > > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the
                            world
                            > > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                            Declaration
                            > > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing
                            Religious
                            > > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                            > >
                            > > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                            > > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                            > >
                            > > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                            > >
                            > > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                            > >
                            > > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                            > >
                            > > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space
                            of
                            > > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become
                            one
                            > of
                            > > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                            > > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                            > three
                            > > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                            > > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                            > > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                            > >
                            > > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                            > >
                            > > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                            > > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of
                            Biography.
                            > > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                            > seven-
                            > > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the
                            archetype
                            > > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                            > particularly
                            > > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                            The
                            > > book goes into detail about the need to understand the
                            importance
                            > of
                            > > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                            > > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                            > >
                            > > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                            chart
                            > > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea,
                            and
                            > > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived
                            and I
                            > > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                            > > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                            > > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                            > >
                            > > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work
                            and
                            > > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain
                            even
                            > > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a
                            Mercury
                            > > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."
                            > >
                            > > Bradford concludes;
                            > >
                            > > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously
                            we
                            > > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                            > with
                            > > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and
                            the
                            > > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart;
                            the
                            > > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                            > > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                            > > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                            > > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33
                            years
                            > > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                            > 1933
                            > > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                            Ahriman
                            > > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                            > >
                            > > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is
                            exposed
                            > to
                            > > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                            > recrossed
                            > > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to
                            what
                            > we
                            > > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                            elemental
                            > > intensity and GUILT.
                            > >
                            > > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                            > > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                            > > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces
                            that
                            > > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I
                            AM,
                            > > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away
                            from
                            > > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                            when
                            > > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                            > > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of
                            the
                            > > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                            > > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math
                            > and
                            > > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world
                            and
                            > > Man.
                            > >
                            > > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as
                            possible
                            > > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                            > > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                            > > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                            incubate
                            > > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that
                            point.
                            > > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                            Christ
                            > > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                            > > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away,
                            looking
                            > > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                            developed
                            > > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                            > > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and
                            as
                            > > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra
                            to
                            > > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts
                            > the
                            > > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                            Zarathustra
                            > > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest
                            prepared
                            > > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this
                            loving,
                            > > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                            Elohim
                            > > Christ.
                            > >
                            > > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                            Zarathustra
                            > > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                            clarified
                            > > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom
                            ever
                            > > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                            > > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a
                            gift
                            > to
                            > > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine
                            > all
                            > > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                            > > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched
                            althought
                            > > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                            > > mysteries to us.
                            > >
                            > > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                            > > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                            live
                            > > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                            Take
                            > > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region
                            of
                            > > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this
                            I
                            > > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                            the
                            > > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world
                            over
                            > > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds,
                            Goethe,
                            > > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                            Christ
                            > > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                            > family
                            > > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                            > family!!
                            > > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                            > > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                            > > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                            > > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                            > with
                            > > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                            > > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                            titles
                            > > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative
                            of
                            > > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                            > >
                            > > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                            > science
                            > > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at
                            age
                            > 30
                            > > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting
                            confrontation
                            > > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                            > > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                            > > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say
                            we
                            > > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list
                            of
                            > > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                            places
                            > > in the bushes.
                            > >
                            > > This is all that you need to remember about the difference
                            between
                            > > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                            > >
                            >
                          • opetha
                            Dear Godot, Perhaps next time around you ll possess the great courage necessary to take on the `big picture . Please take note that your inner urge to
                            Message 13 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              "Dear Godot,

                              Perhaps next time around you'll possess the great courage necessary
                              to take on the `big picture'. Please take note that your inner urge
                              to directly wrestling with Anthroposophy has now
                              figuratively `sprinkled your soul with a light drizzle'. >
                              May the heavens ray down upon you... in sympathy, Carol"

                              The jehovah's witnesses are saying the same thing to you. This is an
                              anthroposophy site , if it was a Jung site you'd get the same
                              sectarian onanism from them. Human beings are not free of poison,
                              carol, this includes you.

                              The 'big picture' includes the collective unconscious which you think
                              is against anthroposophy. No spirit can operate without a Karmic
                              symbol in the unconscious, all spirits, phantom worlds and "eigth
                              spheres" all have a reflection in the unconscious, they cannot be
                              created without ideation.

                              A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless
                              that person's unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows
                              NOTHING about the unconscious and thinks that he is "divining"
                              himself psychically that he can kill
                              or heal someone. If he does heal, the spirit thinks that he did it by
                              his own effort. But the unconscious symbols, or archetypes, as we can
                              see by progression astrology is shown by that dead or healed
                              persons's horoscope; the aspects produced are synchronized to the
                              causel éffect. So, you see, these two worlds of unconscious and
                              conscious spirit are paralell. But because you have week intuition
                              you cannot see this, so you make up a lot of abstract rules to
                              entertain consciousness.
                              Totality--"christ etheric"---is only acheived through union of the
                              opposites. It is the resting of all spirit.

                              You have no balance and are threatened by this testament.

                              DE FABIS ABSTINUTO.
                              Godot











                              > >
                              > > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !
                              > >
                              > > Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end,
                              > we
                              > > all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I
                              > would
                              > > rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the
                              > 33
                              > > and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed
                              > horoscope
                              > > they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33,
                              > 34,
                              > > or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.
                              > >
                              > > Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                              > > saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto
                              > when
                              > > he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect
                              > lasts a
                              > > long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This
                              > system
                              > > has
                              > > never known to fail, and like your interpretations of
                              synchronicity
                              > > , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by
                              > >
                              > > (a) energy
                              > > or (b) causality
                              > >
                              > > Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was
                              > not
                              > > a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of
                              > the
                              > > SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                              > > tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the
                              > jambu
                              > > tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                              > > energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                              > > quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the
                              > centre
                              > > was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                              > > types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                              > > have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).
                              > >
                              > > Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying
                              > that
                              > > the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth
                              > by
                              > > a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from
                              > the
                              > > bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                              > > sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.
                              > >
                              > > "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                              > > -Pythagoras
                              > >
                              > > Godot.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                              <holderlin66@>
                              > > wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Godot wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish
                              > school
                              > > > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will
                              > use
                              > > > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                              > > > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                              > > > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the
                              stars
                              > > > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                              > > > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound
                              > your
                              > > > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                              > this
                              > > > not so?"
                              > > >
                              > > > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                              > > > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of
                              the
                              > > > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age
                              for
                              > > > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                              > > > Things."
                              > > >
                              > > > Bradford comments;
                              > > >
                              > > > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human
                              being.
                              > > > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal.
                              > But
                              > > we
                              > > > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                              > > point
                              > > > means better than the current Jungians.
                              > > >
                              > > > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age
                              > 33.
                              > > > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the
                              > world
                              > > > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                              > Declaration
                              > > > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing
                              > Religious
                              > > > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                              > > >
                              > > > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33,
                              at
                              > > > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                              > > >
                              > > > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                              > > >
                              > > > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                              > > >
                              > > > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                              > > >
                              > > > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space
                              > of
                              > > > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become
                              > one
                              > > of
                              > > > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                              > > > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                              > > three
                              > > > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                              > > > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                              > > > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                              > > >
                              > > > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                              > > >
                              > > > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                              > > > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of
                              > Biography.
                              > > > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                              > > seven-
                              > > > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the
                              > archetype
                              > > > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                              > > particularly
                              > > > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                              > The
                              > > > book goes into detail about the need to understand the
                              > importance
                              > > of
                              > > > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                              > > > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                              > > >
                              > > > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                              > chart
                              > > > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea,
                              > and
                              > > > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived
                              > and I
                              > > > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I
                              find
                              > > > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                              > > > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                              > > >
                              > > > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work
                              > and
                              > > > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain
                              > even
                              > > > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a
                              > Mercury
                              > > > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real
                              gem."
                              > > >
                              > > > Bradford concludes;
                              > > >
                              > > > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science.
                              Previously
                              > we
                              > > > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                              > > with
                              > > > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and
                              > the
                              > > > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart;
                              > the
                              > > > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                              > > > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                              > > > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find
                              the
                              > > > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33
                              > years
                              > > > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                              > > 1933
                              > > > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                              > Ahriman
                              > > > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                              > > >
                              > > > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is
                              > exposed
                              > > to
                              > > > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                              > > recrossed
                              > > > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to
                              > what
                              > > we
                              > > > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                              > elemental
                              > > > intensity and GUILT.
                              > > >
                              > > > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                              > > > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                              > > > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces
                              > that
                              > > > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I
                              > AM,
                              > > > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away
                              > from
                              > > > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                              > when
                              > > > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                              > > > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of
                              > the
                              > > > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                              > > > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic
                              math
                              > > and
                              > > > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world
                              > and
                              > > > Man.
                              > > >
                              > > > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as
                              > possible
                              > > > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                              > > > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                              > > > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                              > incubate
                              > > > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that
                              > point.
                              > > > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                              > Christ
                              > > > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language,
                              brain,
                              > > > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away,
                              > looking
                              > > > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                              > developed
                              > > > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot,
                              fully
                              > > > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and
                              > as
                              > > > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra
                              > to
                              > > > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's
                              depicts
                              > > the
                              > > > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                              > Zarathustra
                              > > > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest
                              > prepared
                              > > > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this
                              > loving,
                              > > > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                              > Elohim
                              > > > Christ.
                              > > >
                              > > > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                              > Zarathustra
                              > > > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                              > clarified
                              > > > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom
                              > ever
                              > > > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                              > > > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a
                              > gift
                              > > to
                              > > > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't
                              examine
                              > > all
                              > > > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                              > > > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched
                              > althought
                              > > > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                              > > > mysteries to us.
                              > > >
                              > > > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting
                              each
                              > > > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                              > live
                              > > > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                              > Take
                              > > > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region
                              > of
                              > > > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought
                              this
                              > I
                              > > > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                              > the
                              > > > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world
                              > over
                              > > > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds,
                              > Goethe,
                              > > > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                              > Christ
                              > > > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                              > > family
                              > > > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                              > > family!!
                              > > > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                              > > > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                              > > > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger
                              or
                              > > > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                              > > with
                              > > > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                              > > > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                              > titles
                              > > > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative
                              > of
                              > > > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                              > > >
                              > > > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                              > > science
                              > > > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at
                              > age
                              > > 30
                              > > > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting
                              > confrontation
                              > > > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                              > > > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                              > > > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd
                              say
                              > we
                              > > > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list
                              > of
                              > > > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                              > places
                              > > > in the bushes.
                              > > >
                              > > > This is all that you need to remember about the difference
                              > between
                              > > > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • holderlin66
                              opetha wrote: A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless that person s unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows NOTHING
                              Message 14 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
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                                opetha wrote:

                                "A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless
                                that person's unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows
                                NOTHING about the unconscious and thinks that he is "divining"
                                himself psychically that he can kill
                                or heal someone. If he does heal, the spirit thinks that he did it by
                                his own effort. But the unconscious symbols, or archetypes, as we can
                                see by progression astrology is shown by that dead or healed
                                persons's horoscope; the aspects produced are synchronized to the
                                causel éffect. So, you see, these two worlds of unconscious and
                                conscious spirit are paralell."

                                Bradford comments;

                                Truly, truly, not that it matters, by Jungianism is a very good
                                basis for beginners to grasp Anthroposophy. Most Anthro's have not
                                progressed further than vague Jungianism, but Jungianism is a good
                                enough approach to start off with.

                                But to the issue, Godot, the issue of healing. Now there is again an
                                area of actual healing, as in the so called miracles, and right
                                away, forget about whatever you have assumed about the miracles in
                                the past. Healing, certainly healers and healing is a wonderful
                                theory and vaguely we are all growing into healers. But Healers that
                                are given the task of producing from our core, an entirely new
                                nature with adjustments and elemental world healings, and karmic
                                balancers.

                                But the theory of healers has to have itself rooted in something.
                                That something is known as the progressive science miracles of
                                Christ. That is that Anthro Science and Resurrection Science can
                                walk you through the slow unfolding and serious deepening, step by
                                step as the Christ penetrated...the Jesus model built by Zarathustra.

                                Step by step, the vast Being of the Christ, using the developing
                                cognition of the Christ and Zarathustra's highly developed faculties
                                and Buddha's immense cosmic compassion, started out with what,
                                changing water into wine. But from each step by step, stage by stage
                                deepening of what Christ is, the I AM of all I AM's, as our I AM and
                                higher being penetrates into our being, firstly Christ taps the deep
                                forces of wine, blood and the elemental forces of the EArth. Christ
                                changes water into wine. Whole new elemental forces in the nymphs
                                and undines spring to life in clay jars.

                                Now what happens stage by stage are not miracles but the unfolding
                                in depth capacity and science of the forces of Karma cognition,
                                healing blind people, or blood issues, or the Youth of Nain, as a
                                world historical karmic adjustment that was left over from THE SON
                                OF THE WIDOW an Isis and Egyptian karmic problem that left a youth
                                in a coma, was read and adjusted by Christ.

                                We have brought on this list, on this list only recently, revealing
                                these miracles under the heading of miracles and we walked it
                                through as best we could. That is that Christ was the active Star
                                Genius, the active adjustor. Christ on Earth was an active vortex of
                                living Star force that usually exists outside of humanity. Christ
                                brought the living Stars for a short time, exactly on Earth.
                                Steiner, better than Bill Gates, knew the codes and developments of
                                I AM's and Christ could and had the power in the vortex that was
                                established around him.... a vast vortex of forces that included the
                                TWELVE, Christ was the walking reality of the immediate stars. These
                                powers are all latent in the puny i am or id and how we raise
                                ourselves to our higher beings, and eventually bring the Not I but
                                Christ I AM into us, is left for our unfolding future.

                                But my point is not that they were healing and miracles and not that
                                human beings, Jungians and biodynamics farmers, Waldorf educators,
                                and Anthro trained students aren't healers, we all are. But my point
                                was that an entirely new nature ---- This should be grasped and I
                                can't blame anyone, including Anthros for not yet grasping this, but
                                the fact is that a New Nature force rose up and will rise up not
                                from miracles but from the penetrating and clarified science of the
                                I AM going deeper and deeper into the I AM, down to the core of
                                matter. And I can tell you that penetrating the core of matter as
                                Love and Light is part of the Heisenberg problem. A problem that
                                Heisenberg and Steiner agreed upon. As the I AM is penetrated and we
                                become more and more conscious, the exactness of the science, the
                                etheric forces needed, the star forces needed, all become clear to
                                the force that had penetrated the Jesus model, once the Cosmic I AM
                                took root.

                                The science of healing, certainly has a beginning with a Jungian
                                frame of reference and Anthroposophy picks up that Jungian frame of
                                reference and more and more consolidates what is termed,
                                UNCONSCIOUS, as nothing that cannot be explored by the Spiritual
                                Scientist. Naturally the idea that Steiner was unconscious of the
                                nature forces or star forces and medical forces as he plunged into
                                his "Agricultural Course" is absurd. Naturally to imagine that the
                                hit or miss version of Edgar Casey was on par with the Conscious
                                Initiate Science of Steiner, is sweet. But to penetrate the
                                properties of the stars, and direct them down to the soil, or
                                through the organism, or into the model of higher and general
                                education, means that the unconscious model that Jungians declare as
                                part of the unexplored area of their being....that may be true for
                                us, but it was less and less true for both Zarathustra, Buddha and
                                Steiner. Mapping the Unconscious with clarity is also not getting
                                trapped in the idea of vague nonsense.

                                Myths, archetypes, you give it to me, and I'll spit it right back in
                                the direction that reveals, not the unconscious but the maps of the
                                unconscious. When we say maps, we are talking Dante and his nine
                                layers deep and nine layers upwards. When we are talking maps, we
                                are talking about the same Nine layers of the Norse Yggdrasill. When
                                we are talking maps of the unconscious we are talking about the same
                                Nine layers that were known to the Egyptians....if you want me to
                                prove it... suffice it to say, KA...etc... etc... What you insist on
                                the unconscious was the Venus steps of the Aztec and Mayan altars,
                                where the nine months of gestation and the snake shadow that runs
                                down the steps and even the number of steps up the Venus altar where
                                human sacrifice was made, were the exact number of steps as the
                                number of days it took Venus....And then the Aztec's went down into
                                the nine worlds of the underworld. These maps were not meant to be
                                relegated as unconscious.

                                Now Spiritual Science does not stand on the unconscious, it stands
                                for the progressive unfolding of deeper and deeper layers of
                                conscious penetration. That means that Nine Hierarchies, say, and
                                Nine layers of the inner Earth and Nine fields of soul development
                                in the human being are all part of the accurate, science of the maps
                                of human cognition and the worlds around us.

                                The fact that the stars play a part has also been brought up here as
                                the 12 pairs of Cranial nerves that are the literal, pin-prick and
                                compass that forms the human brain, and gives each individual a time
                                stamp and a specific compass point, a karmic talent and capcity POV
                                that is unique to the birth of each human being. This brain sheath
                                and skull as well as the Dodecahedron has been generously explored
                                here. So indeed Star movements and how the TWELVE operated around
                                the Christ as a stabalizing field for the immense Elohim, Christ, in
                                a warm field of Olive Trees and in the super warmed blood of the
                                Hebrew people with their specific Iron forces... All this was to
                                root the immense Sun Being and anchor it into Jesus.

                                Then, to top it all off, the entire cellular structure glows with
                                such a powerful light at the Transfiguration that the entire
                                mysteries of matter, down to the very core of the bones, is infused
                                and penetrated with a cosmic light. I can only thank-you profusely
                                for offering your wonderful Jungian curiosity to the stable
                                foundations of Spiritual Science. Because Anthro Jungians, which
                                there are many of us, also need to get with the program that this is
                                not the vague unconscious we are dealing with.
                              • organicethics@sympatico.ca
                                Interesting, I think clarification is being called upon. Here’s one small example: The big picture includes the collective unconscious (the Akasha) which
                                Message 15 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
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                                  Interesting, I think clarification is being called upon. Here’s one small example:

                                  The 'big picture' includes the collective unconscious (the Akasha) which you think
                                  is against anthroposophy (your reflection). No spirit (individual soul) can operate without a Karmic symbol (imprint/spiritual configuration animated by spiritual beings) in the unconscious, all spirits, phantom worlds and "eigth spheres" all have a reflection (living reality in the occult world) in the unconscious, they cannot be created without ideation (the participation of the thinking soul/spirit).

                                  Godot, Theosophy gets you deep with the typical disorganization. Anthroposophy offers the opportunity for Occult experience with the safeguards against getting ‘muddled’.

                                  Godot, be my guest, go do your thing, it’s your destiny, it’s you who ultimately answers for your actions and choices.

                                  But rest assured, that if you send ME psychic ‘threats’, you’ll get sunken…!

                                  Have a nice evening Godot, and be nice to people, Carol.

                                  >
                                  > From: "opetha" <opetha@...>
                                  > Date: 2006/10/06 Fri PM 02:41:21 EST
                                  > To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: Amoeba contra Manu
                                  >
                                  > "Dear Godot,
                                  >
                                  > Perhaps next time around you'll possess the great courage necessary
                                  > to take on the `big picture'. Please take note that your inner urge
                                  > to directly wrestling with Anthroposophy has now
                                  > figuratively `sprinkled your soul with a light drizzle'. >
                                  > May the heavens ray down upon you... in sympathy, Carol"
                                  >
                                  > The jehovah's witnesses are saying the same thing to you. This is an
                                  > anthroposophy site , if it was a Jung site you'd get the same
                                  > sectarian onanism from them. Human beings are not free of poison,
                                  > carol, this includes you.
                                  >
                                  > The 'big picture' includes the collective unconscious which you think
                                  > is against anthroposophy. No spirit can operate without a Karmic
                                  > symbol in the unconscious, all spirits, phantom worlds and "eigth
                                  > spheres" all have a reflection in the unconscious, they cannot be
                                  > created without ideation.
                                  >
                                  > A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless
                                  > that person's unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows
                                  > NOTHING about the unconscious and thinks that he is "divining"
                                  > himself psychically that he can kill
                                  > or heal someone. If he does heal, the spirit thinks that he did it by
                                  > his own effort. But the unconscious symbols, or archetypes, as we can
                                  > see by progression astrology is shown by that dead or healed
                                  > persons's horoscope; the aspects produced are synchronized to the
                                  > causel éffect. So, you see, these two worlds of unconscious and
                                  > conscious spirit are paralell. But because you have week intuition
                                  > you cannot see this, so you make up a lot of abstract rules to
                                  > entertain consciousness.
                                  > Totality--"christ etheric"---is only acheived through union of the
                                  > opposites. It is the resting of all spirit.
                                  >
                                  > You have no balance and are threatened by this testament.
                                  >
                                  > DE FABIS ABSTINUTO.
                                  > Godot
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end,
                                  > > we
                                  > > > all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I
                                  > > would
                                  > > > rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the
                                  > > 33
                                  > > > and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed
                                  > > horoscope
                                  > > > they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33,
                                  > > 34,
                                  > > > or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                                  > > > saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto
                                  > > when
                                  > > > he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect
                                  > > lasts a
                                  > > > long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This
                                  > > system
                                  > > > has
                                  > > > never known to fail, and like your interpretations of
                                  > synchronicity
                                  > > > , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by
                                  > > >
                                  > > > (a) energy
                                  > > > or (b) causality
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was
                                  > > not
                                  > > > a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of
                                  > > the
                                  > > > SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                                  > > > tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the
                                  > > jambu
                                  > > > tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                                  > > > energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                                  > > > quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the
                                  > > centre
                                  > > > was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                                  > > > types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                                  > > > have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying
                                  > > that
                                  > > > the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth
                                  > > by
                                  > > > a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from
                                  > > the
                                  > > > bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                                  > > > sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                                  > > > -Pythagoras
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Godot.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                  > <holderlin66@>
                                  > > > wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Godot wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish
                                  > > school
                                  > > > > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will
                                  > > use
                                  > > > > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                  > > > > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                  > > > > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the
                                  > stars
                                  > > > > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                  > > > > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound
                                  > > your
                                  > > > > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                                  > > this
                                  > > > > not so?"
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                  > > > > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of
                                  > the
                                  > > > > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age
                                  > for
                                  > > > > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                  > > > > Things."
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Bradford comments;
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human
                                  > being.
                                  > > > > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal.
                                  > > But
                                  > > > we
                                  > > > > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                  > > > point
                                  > > > > means better than the current Jungians.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age
                                  > > 33.
                                  > > > > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the
                                  > > world
                                  > > > > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                                  > > Declaration
                                  > > > > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing
                                  > > Religious
                                  > > > > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33,
                                  > at
                                  > > > > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space
                                  > > of
                                  > > > > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become
                                  > > one
                                  > > > of
                                  > > > > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                  > > > > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                  > > > three
                                  > > > > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                  > > > > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                  > > > > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                  > > > > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of
                                  > > Biography.
                                  > > > > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                  > > > seven-
                                  > > > > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the
                                  > > archetype
                                  > > > > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                  > > > particularly
                                  > > > > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                                  > > The
                                  > > > > book goes into detail about the need to understand the
                                  > > importance
                                  > > > of
                                  > > > > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                  > > > > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                                  > > chart
                                  > > > > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea,
                                  > > and
                                  > > > > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived
                                  > > and I
                                  > > > > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I
                                  > find
                                  > > > > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                  > > > > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work
                                  > > and
                                  > > > > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain
                                  > > even
                                  > > > > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a
                                  > > Mercury
                                  > > > > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real
                                  > gem."
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Bradford concludes;
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science.
                                  > Previously
                                  > > we
                                  > > > > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                  > > > with
                                  > > > > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and
                                  > > the
                                  > > > > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart;
                                  > > the
                                  > > > > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                  > > > > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                  > > > > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find
                                  > the
                                  > > > > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33
                                  > > years
                                  > > > > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                  > > > 1933
                                  > > > > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                                  > > Ahriman
                                  > > > > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is
                                  > > exposed
                                  > > > to
                                  > > > > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                  > > > recrossed
                                  > > > > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to
                                  > > what
                                  > > > we
                                  > > > > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                                  > > elemental
                                  > > > > intensity and GUILT.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                  > > > > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                  > > > > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces
                                  > > that
                                  > > > > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I
                                  > > AM,
                                  > > > > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away
                                  > > from
                                  > > > > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                                  > > when
                                  > > > > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                  > > > > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of
                                  > > the
                                  > > > > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                  > > > > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic
                                  > math
                                  > > > and
                                  > > > > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world
                                  > > and
                                  > > > > Man.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as
                                  > > possible
                                  > > > > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                  > > > > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                  > > > > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                                  > > incubate
                                  > > > > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that
                                  > > point.
                                  > > > > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                                  > > Christ
                                  > > > > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language,
                                  > brain,
                                  > > > > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away,
                                  > > looking
                                  > > > > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                                  > > developed
                                  > > > > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot,
                                  > fully
                                  > > > > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and
                                  > > as
                                  > > > > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra
                                  > > to
                                  > > > > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's
                                  > depicts
                                  > > > the
                                  > > > > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                                  > > Zarathustra
                                  > > > > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest
                                  > > prepared
                                  > > > > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this
                                  > > loving,
                                  > > > > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                                  > > Elohim
                                  > > > > Christ.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                                  > > Zarathustra
                                  > > > > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                                  > > clarified
                                  > > > > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom
                                  > > ever
                                  > > > > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                  > > > > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a
                                  > > gift
                                  > > > to
                                  > > > > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't
                                  > examine
                                  > > > all
                                  > > > > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                  > > > > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched
                                  > > althought
                                  > > > > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                  > > > > mysteries to us.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting
                                  > each
                                  > > > > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                                  > > live
                                  > > > > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                                  > > Take
                                  > > > > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region
                                  > > of
                                  > > > > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought
                                  > this
                                  > > I
                                  > > > > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                                  > > the
                                  > > > > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world
                                  > > over
                                  > > > > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds,
                                  > > Goethe,
                                  > > > > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                                  > > Christ
                                  > > > > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                  > > > family
                                  > > > > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                  > > > family!!
                                  > > > > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                  > > > > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                  > > > > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger
                                  > or
                                  > > > > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                  > > > with
                                  > > > > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                  > > > > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                                  > > titles
                                  > > > > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative
                                  > > of
                                  > > > > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                  > > > science
                                  > > > > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at
                                  > > age
                                  > > > 30
                                  > > > > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting
                                  > > confrontation
                                  > > > > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                  > > > > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                  > > > > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd
                                  > say
                                  > > we
                                  > > > > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list
                                  > > of
                                  > > > > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                                  > > places
                                  > > > > in the bushes.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > This is all that you need to remember about the difference
                                  > > between
                                  > > > > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • opetha
                                  Hello, OK, organicethics, but akash = unconcsious is a major blunder of childish proportions. You are embarressing. You say: But rest assured, that if you
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Oct 7, 2006
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                                    Hello,

                                    OK, organicethics, but akash = unconcsious is a major blunder of
                                    childish proportions. You are embarressing.

                                    You say:

                                    "But rest assured, that if you send ME psychic `threats', you'll get
                                    sunken…!"

                                    You have a major ego problem as well. Capital "ME"? You have sunk
                                    yourself with this already. You will not attain to the things you speak
                                    and read of if you think in terms of childish ego squabbles.

                                    But look forward to something "red". . . . . . . . .(?)

                                    temhamitnA.
                                  • carol
                                    Peace; man! ... get ... speak
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Oct 9, 2006
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                                      Peace; man!

                                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hello,
                                      >
                                      > OK, organicethics, but akash = unconcsious is a major blunder of
                                      > childish proportions. You are embarressing.
                                      >
                                      > You say:
                                      >
                                      > "But rest assured, that if you send ME psychic `threats', you'll
                                      get
                                      > sunken…!"
                                      >
                                      > You have a major ego problem as well. Capital "ME"? You have sunk
                                      > yourself with this already. You will not attain to the things you
                                      speak
                                      > and read of if you think in terms of childish ego squabbles.
                                      >
                                      > But look forward to something "red". . . . . . . . .(?)
                                      >
                                      > temhamitnA.
                                      >
                                    • carol
                                      Bradford wrote: `Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point Though I
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Oct 10, 2006
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                                        Bradford wrote:

                                        `Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate
                                        and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point'


                                        Though I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having
                                        embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral' beauty in
                                        my 32th year, (which incidentally has me still marveling), it's
                                        worth noting that I know that at that time, I wasn't ripe to absorb
                                        the `living' meaning of the statement concerning Zarathustra and
                                        Christ.

                                        (Of course, Z's soul/spirit's participation in the mystery was quite
                                        THE exception)

                                        For this, I was only really able to incorporate into my conscious
                                        experience, in a living way, without hesitation, only recently, just
                                        past my mid forties.

                                        Would YOU say that this `mature' experience points towards the
                                        reasons why Steiner insisted on individuals waiting until their
                                        forties before assuming an `authoritative' voice vis ä vis
                                        spiritual science?

                                        As opposed to creating (deciphering) theories/art forms from
                                        within `the lively experience of youth'.

                                        Here are two distinct life stages which are spaced out and differ in
                                        caracter: exceptional creative inspiration within (the fountain of)
                                        youth and unwavering conscious soul experience (through having
                                        processed enough complex `life' experiences and also from possessing
                                        an intuitive experience of mortality)

                                        Would you like to elaborate on these ideas? Carol.

                                        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                        <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Godot wrote:
                                        >
                                        > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school
                                        > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use
                                        > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                        > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                        > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                                        > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                        > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound your
                                        > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                                        this
                                        > not so?"
                                        >
                                        > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                        > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                                        > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                                        > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                        > Things."
                                        >
                                        > Bradford comments;
                                        >
                                        > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                                        > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal. But
                                        we
                                        > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                        point
                                        > means better than the current Jungians.
                                        >
                                        > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age 33.
                                        > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the world
                                        > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                                        Declaration
                                        > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing Religious
                                        > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                        >
                                        > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                                        > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                        >
                                        > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                        >
                                        > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                        >
                                        > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                        >
                                        > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space of
                                        > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become one
                                        of
                                        > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                        > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                        three
                                        > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                        > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                        > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                        >
                                        > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                        >
                                        > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                        > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of Biography.
                                        > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                        seven-
                                        > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the archetype
                                        > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                        particularly
                                        > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                                        The
                                        > book goes into detail about the need to understand the importance
                                        of
                                        > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                        > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                        >
                                        > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                                        chart
                                        > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea, and
                                        > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived and
                                        I
                                        > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                                        > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                        > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                        >
                                        > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work and
                                        > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain even
                                        > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a Mercury
                                        > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."
                                        >
                                        > Bradford concludes;
                                        >
                                        > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously
                                        we
                                        > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                        with
                                        > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and the
                                        > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart; the
                                        > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                        > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                        > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                                        > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33 years
                                        > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                        1933
                                        > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                                        Ahriman
                                        > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                        >
                                        > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is exposed
                                        to
                                        > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                        recrossed
                                        > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to what
                                        we
                                        > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                                        elemental
                                        > intensity and GUILT.
                                        >
                                        > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                        > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                        > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces that
                                        > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I AM,
                                        > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away from
                                        > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                                        when
                                        > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                        > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of the
                                        > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                        > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math
                                        and
                                        > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world and
                                        > Man.
                                        >
                                        > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as possible
                                        > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                        > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                        > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                                        incubate
                                        > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point.
                                        > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                                        Christ
                                        > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                                        > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away, looking
                                        > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                                        developed
                                        > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                                        > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and as
                                        > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra to
                                        > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts
                                        the
                                        > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                                        Zarathustra
                                        > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest prepared
                                        > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this loving,
                                        > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                                        Elohim
                                        > Christ.
                                        >
                                        > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                                        Zarathustra
                                        > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                                        clarified
                                        > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom ever
                                        > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                        > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a gift
                                        to
                                        > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine
                                        all
                                        > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                        > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched althought
                                        > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                        > mysteries to us.
                                        >
                                        > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                                        > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                                        live
                                        > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                                        Take
                                        > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region of
                                        > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this I
                                        > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                                        the
                                        > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world over
                                        > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds, Goethe,
                                        > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                                        Christ
                                        > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                        family
                                        > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                        family!!
                                        > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                        > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                        > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                                        > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                        with
                                        > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                        > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                                        titles
                                        > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative of
                                        > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                        >
                                        > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                        science
                                        > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at age
                                        30
                                        > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting confrontation
                                        > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                        > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                        > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say
                                        we
                                        > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list of
                                        > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                                        places
                                        > in the bushes.
                                        >
                                        > This is all that you need to remember about the difference between
                                        > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                        >
                                      • holderlin66
                                        carol wrote: ...I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral beauty in my 32th year, (which
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Oct 15, 2006
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                                          carol wrote:

                                          "...I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having
                                          embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral' beauty in
                                          my 32th year, (which incidentally has me still marveling), it's
                                          worth noting that I know that at that time, I wasn't ripe to absorb
                                          the `living' meaning of the statement concerning Zarathustra and
                                          Christ.

                                          (Of course, Z's soul/spirit's participation in the mystery was quite
                                          THE exception)

                                          For this, I was only really able to incorporate into my conscious
                                          experience, in a living way, without hesitation, only recently, just
                                          past my mid forties.

                                          Would YOU say that this `mature' experience points towards the
                                          reasons why Steiner insisted on individuals waiting until their
                                          forties before assuming an `authoritative' voice vis ä vis
                                          spiritual science?

                                          As opposed to creating (deciphering) theories/art forms from
                                          within `the lively experience of youth'.

                                          Here are two distinct life stages which are spaced out and differ in
                                          caracter: exceptional creative inspiration within (the fountain of)
                                          youth and unwavering conscious soul experience (through having
                                          processed enough complex `life' experiences and also from possessing
                                          an intuitive experience of mortality)

                                          Would you like to elaborate on these ideas? Carol."

                                          Bradford comments;

                                          Carol it is great to hear your spiritual voice. (As thought is
                                          spiritual activity). For those of us who are not Zarathustra, we can
                                          dig up example after biographical example of how our unprepared, and
                                          semi-karmically prepared I AM's start facing our instincts at the 30
                                          to the 35 mark. Distinctly we can fetch Bill Gates and we can note
                                          how his attention, mission, destiny, certainly centered on the
                                          objectification of the Global Intelligence that could well up, gush
                                          upwards from the deep gorge of untapped human vision, in
                                          connectedness everywhere. Thus all those particpating, if they have
                                          the means, would be faced with a storm of hidden information, vast
                                          fingertip libraries of humanity, Porn, and instincts, raw thought,
                                          Orwellian thought, Luciferically watered down or poison pill laced
                                          thought. Ahrimanic data, numbers, cold cruel pictures of human
                                          beastliness, the worst and most hideous beastliness in all of the
                                          beastly kingdoms.

                                          With this information it is not hard to see with senstive artistic
                                          imagination and intuition how hardened, rigidified and icy
                                          standpoints congeal to Horns. Ten horns or horned beasts that
                                          represent rigidified, forming slowly, Corporate Political systems
                                          that calcify into overall materialistic mind sets, that sit
                                          comfortably in tens of millions.

                                          When you add nano technology and how ahrimanic forces which have the
                                          intent to rip fragments of cloned humanity out of the karmic star
                                          fabric, such a fantasy as depicted in films like the "The
                                          Island" "Gattica" "Blade Runner" ...where humans are grown for
                                          replacement and organ parts, for Gold and Immortality and serve the
                                          calcification of the disease avarice, the entire Corporate anti-
                                          Sophia realm of The Whore of Babylon, isn't even hard to picture it
                                          developing out of human instincts the way John saw it.

                                          John did the best he could to describe it, rising up out of the
                                          intinctual morass of humanity, as a great congealing Anti-Human
                                          factoring.John's Whore of Babylon was the Shadow on Earth of bright
                                          Sophia Star wisdom fallen into human snares. Steiner updated and
                                          filled in some of the blanks that John left as theory and Steiner
                                          brought us into current Michael Speak which is different than
                                          Orwell's NEWSPEAK. At the Dawn of the Age of Light we were given
                                          updates and clarifications of all that was semi clouded and confused
                                          coming from human I AM events.

                                          "Newspeak was the official language of Oceania and had been devised
                                          to meet the ideological needs of Ingsoc, or English Socialism. In
                                          the year 1984 there was not as yet anyone who used Newspeak as his
                                          sole means of communication, either in speech or writing. The
                                          leading articles in The Times were written in it, but could only be
                                          carried out by a specialist. It was expected that Newspeak would
                                          have finally superseded Oldspeak (or Standard English) by about the
                                          year 2050"

                                          Seattle Times:

                                          "The use of powerful and well-placed words and images worked for
                                          INGSOC. Its slogan — war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is
                                          strength — fits like a truncheon in the cradle of shattered bone..."

                                          Bradford continues;

                                          Intelligent human beings don't have to be reminded that Orwell did
                                          us a service in writing his "1984". Grotesque human regime examples
                                          can be given that go back to France and Phillip the Fair that
                                          overturned anything to do with the feeble voice of the Magna Carta,
                                          on through the regime of the Inquisition and the torturing of the
                                          Templars giving us a mid-line of 1332 that lasted well beyond that
                                          period, to Stalin, Nazi Germany, Mao, and again the little section
                                          of time at the dawn of the 21st century, reveals once again the
                                          activiation of this Karmic Group, intent on ripping fragments of the
                                          I AM out of the Star patterns. How?

                                          Shakespeare and all that we could, if we so desired, to understand
                                          regarding why Ahriman wishes to destroy the tool of human karma by
                                          creating on Earth cloned replications that rip human karma to
                                          shreds, is simply there before us in the little poetic tragedy of
                                          the Kennedy brothers and Romeo and Juliet.

                                          "When he shall die take him and cut him out into stars and he shall
                                          make the face of heaven so fine that all the world will be in love
                                          with night and pay no worship to the garish sun." Quoting
                                          Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, Robert Kennedy at the Democratic
                                          National Convention, 8/27/64." TAKE HIM AND CUT HIM OUT INTO STARS.
                                          As we do when we cut little stars that are all the same because we
                                          have scissors and we can see how the folded paper is all linked into
                                          a whole.

                                          Bradford concludes;

                                          Carol and I agree that ripening, the immense instincts, those same
                                          instincts that rose up when the milkman in Amish PA. America, at 32,
                                          took innocent girls hostage because he could not bear to see what
                                          the I AM of his conscience knew of his own dark, dark, intent. And
                                          what happens when we humans get to know all the secrets of our dark,
                                          dark intents, that are swirling in the depths of our instincts? Bill
                                          Gates opened these vast doors to the gurgling flood gates and surge
                                          of all that is wisdom in humanity, our own Steiner Internet and
                                          Archive had to struggle with complacent Anthros and still does, to
                                          meet the vast instincts humanity carries and antidote them with
                                          Michael Speak or Michael thought.

                                          We know that adults on the path of Initiation Schooling get to know
                                          that these dark intincts are not meant to hit the intellect with
                                          their raw intensity without some preparation. That at 29 at the
                                          Saturn return, to well into the Jupiter and Saturn age of our
                                          biography we are entrusted to digest and ripen the kind of balance
                                          of wisdom that does not place the human being alone with his demons
                                          but gives him or her the tools of the Consciousness Soul.

                                          But Bill Gates opened the world to vast, vast instincts, insights,
                                          wisdom and tools....And Bill Gates was a mere 33 to 35, and if we
                                          just look at Bill Gates Mission, we understand that if we take the
                                          POF and open the mystery...Now kids, open the mystery literally
                                          means looking down into the dark well of our deepest instincts, and
                                          the roots of our I AM. What truly disturbs one and presents one with
                                          another aspect of looking down the Well of the I AM and looking at
                                          the overview and understanding the horrific courage it requires to
                                          ripen and mature... there is the example of the very well we are
                                          speaking about, in the film, "The Ring".

                                          Naturally it is but a film. It is but a depiction of how we
                                          penetrate to a most horrific mystery. A mystery that has addictive
                                          power to it. It is a disturbing little film, "The Ring". Aside from
                                          looking down the deep well and ripening our intelligence to face the
                                          problems we have opened up, (opened a can of worms) the POF and all
                                          aspects of Spiritual Science call upon the student to gain their I
                                          AM compass orientation from the depths of looking into the deepest
                                          mysteries of the Well and roots and connections to the depths of the
                                          Earth.

                                          Take for instance that the Water that Christ changes into wine that
                                          is drawn from a well, and put in clay jars, six or seven clay jars.
                                          Now Christ is going to first change this water from the deep bowels
                                          of the etheric earth, into wine. Ah but he doesn't just decide to do
                                          that, there is a wedding and a surge of joy and what we call
                                          happiness and intoxication, a point where lots of people get
                                          together, contribute and support, offer freely their gifts to some
                                          couple who is being wed. An astral surge runs through the close knit
                                          wedding guests, they make bread, contribute tables, sow fabrics, get
                                          dressed up, the farmer planted, the plants grew, the meals were
                                          cooked, the bread and flat breads were made from the flower, the
                                          donkey's turned the stone wheel that ground the wheat. Vegtables
                                          helped, gnomes helped, salamandars served the Donkey's, fires and
                                          ovens had been made and trees grew fruits and were cultivated by
                                          human hands and olives were sprinkled over the greens and the bread
                                          dipped in the olive oils. These utter basics are all contributed,
                                          not from a super-market but rather are all called forth from the
                                          treasure of old instinctive causes for celebration, community and
                                          human union. Instinctive Causes for celebration.

                                          Christ adds to this a new force where enthusiasm and joy change the
                                          entire chemical forces in the clay jars, and the water drawn from
                                          the deep regions of the Earth, in a small etheric science miracle, a
                                          new cognitive force has been changed by the I AM's participation.
                                          The I AM has plenty of sweet instincts in the well and in these
                                          days, what seems to sell are plenty of bitter forces that lurk like
                                          monsters in the well as well. Steiner was an I AM initiate and he
                                          like the rest of us was living in a science age where the I AM was
                                          not even on the table as a consideration. Steiner as an I AM
                                          initiate went down the well and brought out Biodynamics, Waldorf
                                          Education, Eurythmy and the full fledged Science of the I AM in
                                          potential.

                                          And one more thing, the film "The Ring" centers around the problem
                                          of one child who has something so potent, say, a complete 24/7 wide
                                          awake, immortal force in her that cannot die and cannot be removed,
                                          it is an acute problem that can either be understood as our immortal
                                          core or rejected and become the curse and bane of humanity by
                                          rejecting it. We cannot kill this immortal core. We can only learn
                                          to ripen our courage to grasp how each individual child can be given
                                          the tools and foundation to cope with the great thoughts of the
                                          world and navigate and be given a compass that holds to a true
                                          Spiritual North.

                                          Naturally adults who are morally ripened individual are able to
                                          educate children and one of the Miracles of the Science of the
                                          Consciousness Soul is the conscious curriculum structure of Waldorf
                                          Education. Biodynamics is another raw Science of the Consciousness
                                          Soul and a victory of the I AM in the instincts of the Earth and
                                          Stars. Waldorf Education extends into the Angelic intervention where
                                          humans can plant the tools of consciousness that will be needed so
                                          that by age 32 to 72 humanity can ripen the immense depth of the I
                                          AM. Because as Carol has said, we are not Zarathustra's. We are slow
                                          and stubborn humans.

                                          Zarathustra had consolidated most of his former faculties by age
                                          TWELVE. So Zarathustra's twelve is like our age 30 in terms of the I
                                          Am ratio of speed and growth compared to the physical body of seven
                                          years and the etheric body and the astral body and finally the speed
                                          of the I AM are all differently paced clocks in the human psyche.
                                        • carol
                                          Dear Bradford, thank you for your `rich response. I especially enjoyed reading your conclusion in it s entirety. What truly disturbs one and presents one
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Oct 15, 2006
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                                            Dear Bradford, thank you for your `rich' response. I especially
                                            enjoyed reading your conclusion in it's entirety.


                                            "What truly disturbs one and presents one with
                                            another aspect of looking down the Well of the I AM and looking at
                                            the overview and understanding the horrific courage it requires to
                                            ripen and mature..."

                                            This statement touches me deeply because at the age of 22, I was
                                            subject to a sudden metamorphoses; karmic events triggered me to
                                            abruptly abandon the use of recreational drugs; I was almost
                                            instantly placed in the higher worlds without education. I used all
                                            the ingenuity, energy of my youth and all internalized experiences;
                                            to climb the great mountain of my soul's and eternal self's wish for
                                            me as if I was a penniless orphan, on hands and knees…

                                            Bradford, the heavens gave me `living' Drama for which I am
                                            eternally grateful and now, quite attached to as well. Carol.



                                            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                            <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > carol wrote:
                                            >
                                            > "...I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having
                                            > embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral' beauty in
                                            > my 32th year, (which incidentally has me still marveling), it's
                                            > worth noting that I know that at that time, I wasn't ripe to absorb
                                            > the `living' meaning of the statement concerning Zarathustra and
                                            > Christ.
                                            >
                                            > (Of course, Z's soul/spirit's participation in the mystery was
                                            quite
                                            > THE exception)
                                            >
                                            > For this, I was only really able to incorporate into my conscious
                                            > experience, in a living way, without hesitation, only recently,
                                            just
                                            > past my mid forties.
                                            >
                                            > Would YOU say that this `mature' experience points towards the
                                            > reasons why Steiner insisted on individuals waiting until their
                                            > forties before assuming an `authoritative' voice vis ä vis
                                            > spiritual science?
                                            >
                                            > As opposed to creating (deciphering) theories/art forms from
                                            > within `the lively experience of youth'.
                                            >
                                            > Here are two distinct life stages which are spaced out and differ
                                            in
                                            > caracter: exceptional creative inspiration within (the fountain of)
                                            > youth and unwavering conscious soul experience (through having
                                            > processed enough complex `life' experiences and also from
                                            possessing
                                            > an intuitive experience of mortality)
                                            >
                                            > Would you like to elaborate on these ideas? Carol."
                                            >
                                            > Bradford comments;
                                            >
                                            > Carol it is great to hear your spiritual voice. (As thought is
                                            > spiritual activity). For those of us who are not Zarathustra, we
                                            can
                                            > dig up example after biographical example of how our unprepared,
                                            and
                                            > semi-karmically prepared I AM's start facing our instincts at the
                                            30
                                            > to the 35 mark. Distinctly we can fetch Bill Gates and we can note
                                            > how his attention, mission, destiny, certainly centered on the
                                            > objectification of the Global Intelligence that could well up,
                                            gush
                                            > upwards from the deep gorge of untapped human vision, in
                                            > connectedness everywhere. Thus all those particpating, if they
                                            have
                                            > the means, would be faced with a storm of hidden information, vast
                                            > fingertip libraries of humanity, Porn, and instincts, raw thought,
                                            > Orwellian thought, Luciferically watered down or poison pill laced
                                            > thought. Ahrimanic data, numbers, cold cruel pictures of human
                                            > beastliness, the worst and most hideous beastliness in all of the
                                            > beastly kingdoms.
                                            >
                                            > With this information it is not hard to see with senstive artistic
                                            > imagination and intuition how hardened, rigidified and icy
                                            > standpoints congeal to Horns. Ten horns or horned beasts that
                                            > represent rigidified, forming slowly, Corporate Political systems
                                            > that calcify into overall materialistic mind sets, that sit
                                            > comfortably in tens of millions.
                                            >
                                            > When you add nano technology and how ahrimanic forces which have
                                            the
                                            > intent to rip fragments of cloned humanity out of the karmic star
                                            > fabric, such a fantasy as depicted in films like the "The
                                            > Island" "Gattica" "Blade Runner" ...where humans are grown for
                                            > replacement and organ parts, for Gold and Immortality and serve
                                            the
                                            > calcification of the disease avarice, the entire Corporate anti-
                                            > Sophia realm of The Whore of Babylon, isn't even hard to picture
                                            it
                                            > developing out of human instincts the way John saw it.
                                            >
                                            > John did the best he could to describe it, rising up out of the
                                            > intinctual morass of humanity, as a great congealing Anti-Human
                                            > factoring.John's Whore of Babylon was the Shadow on Earth of
                                            bright
                                            > Sophia Star wisdom fallen into human snares. Steiner updated and
                                            > filled in some of the blanks that John left as theory and Steiner
                                            > brought us into current Michael Speak which is different than
                                            > Orwell's NEWSPEAK. At the Dawn of the Age of Light we were given
                                            > updates and clarifications of all that was semi clouded and
                                            confused
                                            > coming from human I AM events.
                                            >
                                            > "Newspeak was the official language of Oceania and had been
                                            devised
                                            > to meet the ideological needs of Ingsoc, or English Socialism. In
                                            > the year 1984 there was not as yet anyone who used Newspeak as his
                                            > sole means of communication, either in speech or writing. The
                                            > leading articles in The Times were written in it, but could only
                                            be
                                            > carried out by a specialist. It was expected that Newspeak would
                                            > have finally superseded Oldspeak (or Standard English) by about
                                            the
                                            > year 2050"
                                            >
                                            > Seattle Times:
                                            >
                                            > "The use of powerful and well-placed words and images worked for
                                            > INGSOC. Its slogan — war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance
                                            is
                                            > strength — fits like a truncheon in the cradle of shattered
                                            bone..."
                                            >
                                            > Bradford continues;
                                            >
                                            > Intelligent human beings don't have to be reminded that Orwell did
                                            > us a service in writing his "1984". Grotesque human regime
                                            examples
                                            > can be given that go back to France and Phillip the Fair that
                                            > overturned anything to do with the feeble voice of the Magna
                                            Carta,
                                            > on through the regime of the Inquisition and the torturing of the
                                            > Templars giving us a mid-line of 1332 that lasted well beyond that
                                            > period, to Stalin, Nazi Germany, Mao, and again the little section
                                            > of time at the dawn of the 21st century, reveals once again the
                                            > activiation of this Karmic Group, intent on ripping fragments of
                                            the
                                            > I AM out of the Star patterns. How?
                                            >
                                            > Shakespeare and all that we could, if we so desired, to understand
                                            > regarding why Ahriman wishes to destroy the tool of human karma by
                                            > creating on Earth cloned replications that rip human karma to
                                            > shreds, is simply there before us in the little poetic tragedy of
                                            > the Kennedy brothers and Romeo and Juliet.
                                            >
                                            > "When he shall die take him and cut him out into stars and he
                                            shall
                                            > make the face of heaven so fine that all the world will be in love
                                            > with night and pay no worship to the garish sun." Quoting
                                            > Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, Robert Kennedy at the Democratic
                                            > National Convention, 8/27/64." TAKE HIM AND CUT HIM OUT INTO
                                            STARS.
                                            > As we do when we cut little stars that are all the same because we
                                            > have scissors and we can see how the folded paper is all linked
                                            into
                                            > a whole.
                                            >
                                            > Bradford concludes;
                                            >
                                            > Carol and I agree that ripening, the immense instincts, those same
                                            > instincts that rose up when the milkman in Amish PA. America, at
                                            32,
                                            > took innocent girls hostage because he could not bear to see what
                                            > the I AM of his conscience knew of his own dark, dark, intent. And
                                            > what happens when we humans get to know all the secrets of our
                                            dark,
                                            > dark intents, that are swirling in the depths of our instincts?
                                            Bill
                                            > Gates opened these vast doors to the gurgling flood gates and
                                            surge
                                            > of all that is wisdom in humanity, our own Steiner Internet and
                                            > Archive had to struggle with complacent Anthros and still does, to
                                            > meet the vast instincts humanity carries and antidote them with
                                            > Michael Speak or Michael thought.
                                            >
                                            > We know that adults on the path of Initiation Schooling get to
                                            know
                                            > that these dark intincts are not meant to hit the intellect with
                                            > their raw intensity without some preparation. That at 29 at the
                                            > Saturn return, to well into the Jupiter and Saturn age of our
                                            > biography we are entrusted to digest and ripen the kind of balance
                                            > of wisdom that does not place the human being alone with his
                                            demons
                                            > but gives him or her the tools of the Consciousness Soul.
                                            >
                                            > But Bill Gates opened the world to vast, vast instincts, insights,
                                            > wisdom and tools....And Bill Gates was a mere 33 to 35, and if we
                                            > just look at Bill Gates Mission, we understand that if we take the
                                            > POF and open the mystery...Now kids, open the mystery literally
                                            > means looking down into the dark well of our deepest instincts,
                                            and
                                            > the roots of our I AM. What truly disturbs one and presents one
                                            with
                                            > another aspect of looking down the Well of the I AM and looking at
                                            > the overview and understanding the horrific courage it requires to
                                            > ripen and mature... there is the example of the very well we are
                                            > speaking about, in the film, "The Ring".
                                            >
                                            > Naturally it is but a film. It is but a depiction of how we
                                            > penetrate to a most horrific mystery. A mystery that has addictive
                                            > power to it. It is a disturbing little film, "The Ring". Aside
                                            from
                                            > looking down the deep well and ripening our intelligence to face
                                            the
                                            > problems we have opened up, (opened a can of worms) the POF and
                                            all
                                            > aspects of Spiritual Science call upon the student to gain their I
                                            > AM compass orientation from the depths of looking into the deepest
                                            > mysteries of the Well and roots and connections to the depths of
                                            the
                                            > Earth.
                                            >
                                            > Take for instance that the Water that Christ changes into wine
                                            that
                                            > is drawn from a well, and put in clay jars, six or seven clay
                                            jars.
                                            > Now Christ is going to first change this water from the deep
                                            bowels
                                            > of the etheric earth, into wine. Ah but he doesn't just decide to
                                            do
                                            > that, there is a wedding and a surge of joy and what we call
                                            > happiness and intoxication, a point where lots of people get
                                            > together, contribute and support, offer freely their gifts to some
                                            > couple who is being wed. An astral surge runs through the close
                                            knit
                                            > wedding guests, they make bread, contribute tables, sow fabrics,
                                            get
                                            > dressed up, the farmer planted, the plants grew, the meals were
                                            > cooked, the bread and flat breads were made from the flower, the
                                            > donkey's turned the stone wheel that ground the wheat. Vegtables
                                            > helped, gnomes helped, salamandars served the Donkey's, fires and
                                            > ovens had been made and trees grew fruits and were cultivated by
                                            > human hands and olives were sprinkled over the greens and the
                                            bread
                                            > dipped in the olive oils. These utter basics are all contributed,
                                            > not from a super-market but rather are all called forth from the
                                            > treasure of old instinctive causes for celebration, community and
                                            > human union. Instinctive Causes for celebration.
                                            >
                                            > Christ adds to this a new force where enthusiasm and joy change
                                            the
                                            > entire chemical forces in the clay jars, and the water drawn from
                                            > the deep regions of the Earth, in a small etheric science miracle,
                                            a
                                            > new cognitive force has been changed by the I AM's participation.
                                            > The I AM has plenty of sweet instincts in the well and in these
                                            > days, what seems to sell are plenty of bitter forces that lurk
                                            like
                                            > monsters in the well as well. Steiner was an I AM initiate and he
                                            > like the rest of us was living in a science age where the I AM was
                                            > not even on the table as a consideration. Steiner as an I AM
                                            > initiate went down the well and brought out Biodynamics, Waldorf
                                            > Education, Eurythmy and the full fledged Science of the I AM in
                                            > potential.
                                            >
                                            > And one more thing, the film "The Ring" centers around the problem
                                            > of one child who has something so potent, say, a complete 24/7
                                            wide
                                            > awake, immortal force in her that cannot die and cannot be
                                            removed,
                                            > it is an acute problem that can either be understood as our
                                            immortal
                                            > core or rejected and become the curse and bane of humanity by
                                            > rejecting it. We cannot kill this immortal core. We can only learn
                                            > to ripen our courage to grasp how each individual child can be
                                            given
                                            > the tools and foundation to cope with the great thoughts of the
                                            > world and navigate and be given a compass that holds to a true
                                            > Spiritual North.
                                            >
                                            > Naturally adults who are morally ripened individual are able to
                                            > educate children and one of the Miracles of the Science of the
                                            > Consciousness Soul is the conscious curriculum structure of
                                            Waldorf
                                            > Education. Biodynamics is another raw Science of the Consciousness
                                            > Soul and a victory of the I AM in the instincts of the Earth and
                                            > Stars. Waldorf Education extends into the Angelic intervention
                                            where
                                            > humans can plant the tools of consciousness that will be needed so
                                            > that by age 32 to 72 humanity can ripen the immense depth of the I
                                            > AM. Because as Carol has said, we are not Zarathustra's. We are
                                            slow
                                            > and stubborn humans.
                                            >
                                            > Zarathustra had consolidated most of his former faculties by age
                                            > TWELVE. So Zarathustra's twelve is like our age 30 in terms of the
                                            I
                                            > Am ratio of speed and growth compared to the physical body of
                                            seven
                                            > years and the etheric body and the astral body and finally the
                                            speed
                                            > of the I AM are all differently paced clocks in the human psyche.
                                            >
                                          • holderlin66
                                            The tell tale signs of a hot choleric character profile, who merges with fire, the fire of ideas, the candle flame, and writes a wonderful play on that flame
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Nov 19, 2006
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                                              The tell tale signs of a hot choleric character profile, who merges
                                              with fire, the fire of ideas, the candle flame, and writes a
                                              wonderful play on that flame called the Candle Maker that had
                                              ignited like a lit flame in his intellect. Bruno represents living
                                              and dying by the fiery temperament and character of the choleric
                                              thinker, doer, who feeds off resistance and human ignorance in the
                                              dawning age of mighty light that ripped through his thinking.

                                              Bruno and Waldorf education understands human realities as the basis
                                              of grasping that Bruno was born near the active sulphur spewing
                                              volcano Vesuvius and we can see how powerfully this environment
                                              infused into his blood the fire salamanders from our previous
                                              temperament studies. When we actually understand the clues of
                                              various individual destinies, we can also take into consideration
                                              where an individual grew up and was born and what impressed his
                                              early etheric development. Here we see what impressed Giordano
                                              Bruno's early etheric development.

                                              http://pages.zoom.co.uk/thuban/html/bruno.html

                                              "In the year 1548 an Italian boy was born in the little town of
                                              Nola, not far from Vesuvius. Although, he spent the greater part of
                                              his life in hostile and foreign countries he was drawn back to his
                                              home at the end of his travels and after he had written nearly
                                              twenty books.

                                              When he was thirteen years old he began to go to school at the
                                              Monastery of Saint Domenico. It was a famous place. Thomas Aquinas,
                                              himself a Dominican, had lived there and taught. Within a few years
                                              Bruno had become a Dominican priest.

                                              It was not long before the monks of Saint Dominico began to learn
                                              something about the extraordinary enthusiasm of their young
                                              colleague. He was frank, outspoken and lacking in reticence. It was
                                              not long before he got himself into trouble. It was evident that
                                              this boy could not be made to fit into Dominican grooves. One of
                                              the first things that a student has to learn is to give the teacher
                                              the answers that the teacher wants. The average teacher is the
                                              preserver of the ancient land marks. The students are his audience.
                                              They applaud but they must not innovate. They must learn to labor
                                              and to wait. It was not Bruno's behavior but his opinions that got
                                              him into trouble.

                                              He ran away from school, from his home town, from his own country
                                              and tried to find among strangers and foreigners a congenial
                                              atmosphere for his intellectual integrity that he could not find at
                                              home. It is difficult not to get sentimental about Bruno. He was a
                                              man without a country and, finally, without a church.

                                              Bruno was interested in the nature of ideas. Although the name was
                                              not yet invented it will be perfectly proper to dub Bruno as an
                                              epistemologist, or as a pioneer Semanticist. He takes fresh stock
                                              of the human mind."

                                              http://snowbarsk.autoklad.com/images/zasimovich/sculpture/5.jpg

                                              Choleric type;

                                              Now the hot blooded and fiery choleric, can be found in Emergency
                                              Rooms and in Medics everywhere. They are not always fiery red-headed
                                              carrot tops that always stare at you with 'come on, go ahead, I can
                                              take ya' faces. That fire appears in the soft embering glow of
                                              Steiner's in depth lectures, fiery Michael forces supercharged his
                                              blood, where the warmth in his Iron and Light ignited spirit flares
                                              that revealed clarity where there was gathering darkness. His words
                                              rang as consecrated light in all directions. Fission, fusion and
                                              Iron centered sun spirituality cooked Steiner's rich dishes with a
                                              warm, kindled, human blaze.

                                              But then again, on the battle front of life, saving lives, from fire
                                              men and women to police and swat teams to search and rescue on the
                                              high seas, to special forces teams, you hear the choleric
                                              shout, 'GO, GO, GO, GO!'. Adrenaline junkies can be found working
                                              rush hours in restaurants, on the cooking line in the heat of the
                                              battle, where the grills spit fire right in their faces and they
                                              spit back. Choleric fire is in all of us, even Tiger Woods breaks
                                              from his Zen mode to get really pissed off sometimes.

                                              "Some people – and all narcissists – are addicted to excitement, to
                                              the adrenaline rush, to the danger inevitably and invariably
                                              involved. They are the adrenaline junkies. All narcissists are
                                              adrenaline junkies – but not all adrenaline junkies are narcissists.

                                              Thus, an adrenaline junkie must have a supply, a feed, which always
                                              comes with invented excitement, real or invented drama or emotional
                                              drama queens that have choleric forces in their feeling life. We can
                                              understand that choleric forces or any of the other temperaments can
                                              lodge themselves, not only in the will, but in the feeling, and in
                                              the region of mental aggression. On the one hand solid Choleric
                                              types are described as closer to the ground, Napoleonic and over
                                              confident. In a pinch you know that a Choleric will cover your back,
                                              fight to the death and remain in the game though anxiety is
                                              everywhere and the odds against you are everywhere a great choleric
                                              will be the last face you see before you pass out.
                                            • holderlin66
                                              Correction fire elemental of the choleric system http://phopro.ie/earthspirit/fire_salamander.jpg http://www.matrifocus.com/IMB05/images/fire-salamander-sm.jpg
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Nov 19, 2006
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