Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Amoeba contra Manu

Expand Messages
  • Valerie Walsh
    ... The original post and parts of Bradford s response reminded me fundamentally of Hal s Bar and Grill , the French translation being, I believe, La barre de
    Message 1 of 30 , Oct 2, 2006
      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > The original post reminded me of reading about "the eigth sphere" in
      > a lecture series called:
      > "Occult Movements in the 19th Century"; the french translation
      > is `Les dangers d'un occultisme matérialiste' which you probably can
      > decipher meaning: the dangers of materialistic occultism. Does
      > anyone want to comment on this?

      The original post and parts of Bradford's response reminded me
      fundamentally of "Hal's Bar and Grill", the French translation being, I
      believe, La barre de Hal et grille.-Val
    • Steve Hale
      ... in ... can ... The logistics of the moon and the eighth sphere is described in Steiner s lecture course, The Occult Movement in the Nineteenth Century ,
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 2, 2006
        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...>
        wrote:
        >
        >
        > The original post reminded me of reading about "the eigth sphere"
        in
        > a lecture series called:
        > "Occult Movements in the 19th Century"; the french translation
        > is `Les dangers d'un occultisme matérialiste' which you probably
        can
        > decipher meaning: the dangers of materialistic occultism. Does
        > anyone want to comment on this?

        The logistics of the moon and "the eighth sphere" is described in
        Steiner's lecture course, "The Occult Movement in the Nineteenth
        Century", given October 10-25 of 1915. Herein is described the
        entire basis and rationale for the creation of the eighth sphere; to
        provide a counter-balance to the unmineralized physical (Jehovian)
        moon, which has given its mineral content over to the earth in the
        Lemurian epoch. This was done in order for the physical-mineral
        constitution of the earth to commence as the basis for man's dense
        three-fold embodiment required to receive the Ego. Because Jehova
        remained on the moon rather than departing with the six other Sun
        Spirits at the end of the Moon sphere of evolution, it became
        possible for the Astral Body to receive an acceleration of its
        archetypal development on the moon, while Jehova planted the seed of
        the Ego during sleep consciousness for its subsequent development on
        earth; at the beginning of our earth sphere, rather than at the end,
        as originally planned.

        Thus, in order to counteract the strong, and detrimental tendencies
        that would have prevailed for human evolution on earth, i.e., 1) the
        perpetuation of the old imaginative-visionary clairvoyance of the
        moon; and, 2) the full development of the human astral body in
        advance of the ego's proper development on earth, the eighth sphere
        was set up to mitigate these influences. Thus the eighth sphere is a
        completely mechancial contrivance that has been formed out of
        mineral substance meant for the earth; sequestered, so to speak, by
        Lucifer and Ahriman, and re-supplied to what was to be the etheric
        husk of the old moon. Because the physical and luminescent Jehovian
        moon was guarded against receiving back any of its original mineral
        nature, it had to be given to this 'spectral' sphere.

        As more and more mineral substance has gone to the eight sphere over
        the course of maybe, 40,000 years since that point in the Lemurian
        epoch when the mineral kingdom passed over to the earth, this sphere
        has taken on rotational characteristics around the fixed and
        luminous physical moon. It has the effect of acting as a shroud,
        which is mistaken for being the phases of the moon.

        Steve
      • opetha
        Bradford/Holderlin, Many thanks for your lengthy and impassioned account, it s more than appreciated. You sound like one very concerned about spiritual truths
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
          Bradford/Holderlin,

          Many thanks for your lengthy and impassioned account, it's more than
          appreciated. You sound like one very concerned about spiritual truths
          for mankind.

          My own school of thought, I have to admit, is more in the direction
          of Carl Jung's Analytical Psychology and although I understand that
          there are active spiritual forces both in and out of man, i am still
          somewhat reticent in my own persnal life because of the whole nature
          of astral phenomena being OBJECTIVE, and this entails a choice that
          cannot be faked by the wrong type of Karmic placement (or Karmamarg).
          And by this I understand that anything realized on the astral plane
          or any higher spiritual world is a conditioned contrivance, though
          with karma beneficence, of the aspirate. You more advanced
          anthroposophists must know well that your first spiritual experiences
          were not in SEEING etheric properties in plants and the macrocosm,
          but in READING such personalities as Steinar, his magistry reaching
          out of the page and giving new meaning to your earley lives. This was
          a "pulling-in for you".

          My tending toward Jung involves an empiric understanding of the
          unconscious and complexes and a kind of palette that can paint
          various pictures in our conscious sensation realms, and at that maybe
          limited in colours. Jung always looked poorly on Steinar and the
          theosophical movement because its consciousness was so developed that
          it abandoned the unconscious and maybe saw this, as I maybe do also,
          as an imbalance--hence I likened the anthroposophic movement as
          LUCIFERIC--light, consciousness (your "ahrimanic"). Jung's other
          discovery was the psychological types: THINKING, FEELING, INTUITION,
          and SENSATION. Jung was very strict with word-designations and felt
          they had to be etymologically-precise, which is different in
          Anthroposophy, where they appear to this "phoneme-regressive"
          unconscious theory as spurious and haphazard, Steinar would use
          sensation and intuition as meaning different faculties than what Jung
          would want as fundamental (for instance, a tarot reader calls their
          psychic power "intuition" but Jung quite rightly distingiuishes
          intuition as a language of the prophets and of the unconscious
          symbols, whereas Tarot psychics would be THINKING (objective,
          extraverted, conditioned , thinking). proper intuition would see the
          tarot cards as archetypal substances, the Tarot card THE TOWER as the
          same dream complexity as the penis ejaculating and flopping over,
          whereas an advanced psychic would see a magic cloud over this card
          that shows rather the thing it entails (timothy's rocket ship project
          failing on Tuesday, rather than a guess based on the dream analogy).
          So you see that the tarot psychic, as with a biased depth
          psychologist, would never have recourse to glimpse the others meaning
          behind their own personal word constructs, the psychic would have
          frontal lobe or anja-chakra powers from an earley age that would make
          them forsake the complexities of, say, Jung's empirical subjective
          way.

          And all these dispositions can only be based on karma, which is, even
          in wooden psychology, a empirical and provable science. And this is
          only provable is (for their sake) we abandon the whole notion (for
          the time being) of spiritual energy from the planets (though you,
          Bradford, and Steve Hale cannot do this) and reckon the idea of
          synchroncity. This posits that the planet venus moving into my sign
          of capricorn in astrology has no more spiritual and energic effect on
          my love life any more than my love life has a spiritual and energic
          effect that moves venus into Capricorn, because both are synchronized
          and acausally connected. Two time lines---the ephemeris and my
          biography---never cross but are parallel. Karma as horoscope symbols
          are innate as unconscious complexes and project in my life onto
          available affordances, whether badly placed planets as synchronistly
          appearing as bad fortune, or goodly placed planets projecting in time
          upon likeable things. And this circular horoscope, I'm sure we all
          now agree, is the halo about the buddharupa, that mandala at the back
          of His head. The planets on the periphery are the skandas (reigns)
          which are charged by libido-interest (kama-desire). To destroy karma
          and achieve moksha is to destroy all attachment to Karmic images,
          even positive ones.

          But just not to go of track, what I wanted to say was that in
          Analytical Psychology to be of a spiritual disposition is to be of
          one of the four(or eight) psychological types, namely the extraverted
          THINKING type that Jung reduces to a type that often believes its
          word conventions are a means an end and are easily doctrinable by
          fancy playful language--and I only point this out to the
          anthroposophical and magickal personality that it is likely on
          certain terms only one arm of that cross which signifies atma-
          wholeness, THINKING and FEELING are called the rational, positive
          psyche's, with INTUITION and SENSATION as irrational and negative.
          People born with good prarabhda Karma will most likely be of the
          positive disposition and with bad prarabdha karma of the negative,
          and this entails also an habitual introversion of libido or
          extraversion.

          We've all heard the saying "ignorance is bliss" and this is one of
          the failings of the negative type (OK, myself included there) that
          there IS a need for the rationality of the unconscious, the matrix of
          innate and eternal ideas before they have affordances, and this is
          the machine that the gnostics were interested in, the first religion
          of Jesus, who some thought was of the dhamma. With blessed Karma the
          available opportunies in the outside world, whether money, or
          spiritual entities, are a magnet that pulls AWAY from the unconscious
          systematics and therefore of conformative science.

          Where you guys speak of Steinar having developed his powers through
          many incarnations, I can only assume that he was once like Jung and
          that his temperance had migrated him to a more positive and, shall we
          say, matrically unconcerned mentality. That a spiritualist and
          anthroposophist can not ask fundamental questions of the unconcious
          matrix, or combat fundamental earth science adequatly, is because
          they are blessed, by so many soul-journeys, with the reluctance of
          the mother (dark/underneith) and the desire of the son (light/the
          above). The two proper types of Christianity included romanticism
          and "phallicism"--romanticism was the Ahrimanic (your "luciferic")
          that had bad Karma and shirked away from the object for the hopeful
          intuiton prayer, the sychronistic signs, and the love of the mother
          (or mother complex), the "phallic" Christianity, was the positive
          Karmic and love the object--the spiritual onject---and understood the
          Christian word as having no fundamental science (hence theology as
          unethical) and was a complete emersion in conscious wakeful light of
          christ conconciousness, moksha by faith, St, Stephens unpoundable and
          infinite love. Compare Tertulians simplicity to Orgen and the
          gnostics's complexity, this is the whole squirmish that reduced pure
          faith-consciousness to gnostic science, scholasticism, mdoern
          philosphy and right down into depth psychology. Both, the romantic
          and the phallic, are undertood as dualities where God-atma (or I AM)
          is the only unity, and the world exists of these opposites in Karma
          the blest and the down-trodden, both wanting good but one unable to
          commend with the anthroposophical teaching due to some Karmic
          restraint.

          Your voice, Bradford, and Mr Hale show the dispositions of the
          THINKING types who have almost nominalistic word conventions, and you
          are so sure of your teachings--which is a good thing---but maybe
          (just maybe) have to consider how anthroposophy can become properly
          a world "science" when it is so objective as to leave behind the
          Karmically stunted scientist--like myself. Your style of speaking in
          its surety with such physics is exactly the same as Barbara Hand Clow
          who speaks like-lucidly and non-fundamentally, but with a whole
          different spiritual law; that we have evolved from lizzards, the the
          annunaki on the planet nibiru gave the jews uranium commandment stone
          to take over are minds, and that the mayan-immigrant spirits in the
          Pleiades will nourish our world with spiritual light in AD 2012. All
          this with first hand, psychic contact. Her world exists, as does
          yours, even the world of the man who OBJECTIVIZED that george Harrisn
          on was a witch from the planet Neptune, but all without corners
          touching.

          So, it appears that the whole of the spiritual world is objective and
          creatable, depending on what palette we have in our unconscious. When
          you die I;m sure you will go to devachan, and that a Christian will
          go to paradise and a Tibetan will see all those astral things from
          the BARDO THROTROL, but these are not things for fundamental science,
          are they. My excellerated consciousness will CREATE a objective abode
          for my spiritual actions--pure kreyamena Karma.

          The life journey is one from deep sleep in the watery womb to high
          consciousness in the akash. The infallibility of mankind is that they
          get caught halfway, the libido cannot migrate so well to
          consciousness with Karmic complexes (the palette) in the unconscious,
          when consciousness is venerated completely the umbilical coard from
          the unconcious matrix is cut and, the light/libido dwelling in
          enlightened consciousness in its entirety, the unconscious is not
          only not needed anymore, but denied existance, hence this dipsute I
          claim about etymologically fundamental word conventions of Jung, but
          not of Steinar (LUCIFER = light = positive = future, AHRIMAN = dark =
          negative = past. . . .). The akash of devachan or the "otherside" is
          one without the unconscious. We are here "as the angels of Heaven, no
          longer given in marriage" because we lose are genetic Karma, even our
          sanchita Karma which is of a greater race cycle (also I could allude
          to jesus's disowning his mother and brothers--no longer the simple
          Jew---but EVERY MAN...and even Steinars remark that in Christ
          consciousness only the body sleeps whilst the mind goes into the
          macrocosm).

          But I hope you understand my language in that I have taken up to
          understand yours, and also what I mean by meeting me halfway is along
          that arm of the cross where you be THINKING (into the heights)--good
          Karma through development--and I be INTUITION (tuition of the depth)
          by bad Karma, because these are the types that make up the whole of
          mankind that we are trying to so erroneously influence.

          I think that in the next life I will have better prarabdha Karma,
          more libido/light in consciousness, that will forsake my mother (the
          unconscious), where "ignorance is bliss" and I can formulate on the
          astral plane the etheric realms, but now, I am not ignorant enough to
          CHOOSE between Anthroposophy, Thelema, Pleiadeanism, or any other
          woven reality, because I was made to love sacrifice.

          But let us love one-another.

          Godo.













          >
          > Bradford responds;
          >
          > I enjoyed some of your recent descriptions of New Age Lucifer and
          > Ahriman offshoots. Gradually the student of spiritual science
          learns
          > how to look at the various predominating soul forces, Michael
          > Jackson makes a very good study in Luciferic tendencies, yet, the
          > stinging luciferic/ahrimanic in Ann Coulter in the west, or the
          > Luciferic/Ahrimanic in Karl Rove and the dominating Ahrimanic in
          > Dick Cheney, slowly allows each human being a chance to measure
          > ourselves and our own compromises. For the reason for this
          schooling
          > isn't to accuse others of anything, but rather to be very conscious
          > of our own mixed bag of tricks, operative at all times and all
          > places.
          >
          > Locating the high moral ground of where the Etheric Christ reality
          > supports childhood, supports the etheric memory tableau of human
          > striving, ages, Manvantaras and the entire Occult Science an
          Outline
          > is where true science, not big bang nonsense or even carbon dating
          > arises with clarity. Christ is in the very models of soul and
          spirit
          > and in the very weaving forces that objectively hold the whole
          model
          > of the human up to the light. And in that light of course weave the
          > Ahrimanic and Luciferic in us and they are part of the whole needed
          > reality in human endeavor. Christ and the Etheric Christ lives
          fully
          > in the entire superstructure and intimacies of the model that our I
          > AM is made of. What is clarity and what does a student of Spiritual
          > Science encounter?
          >
          > Firstly we do encounter in ourselves and in the world the icy
          > coldness of intellectual soul lies, (that is that we also can
          > clearly locate one of the NINE not merely the SEVENFOLD forces of
          > the micro I AM system, and this micro I AM system is a mini
          > Manvantara, with one of the layers of soul in the term,
          INTELLECTUAL
          > SOUL) and the general tendency of Lucifer to get stoned, get high
          > and preserve the field of sexual Venusian mysteries, at least what
          > we have termed here on Earth, Venusian mysteries. These mysteries
          of
          > love have to do with Aphrodite Mysteries and fallen porn or
          awakened
          > higher love, and the love of Freya or Good Friday or higher Love
          > mysteries. These pertain literally to Dove mysteries. For it is
          true
          > that earthy and good sex, sensual love and the entire endocrine
          > system in the human being, is what we clearly and solidly
          understand
          > when Christian Rosenkreuz saw Venus naked in "The Chymical Wedding
          > of Christian Rosenkreuz". I can only suggest you do your research
          > and do catch up to true science or work out specific questions.
          > Everyone will still balk, resist, refuse due to their own etheric
          > and astral squirming, to find other answers than Spiritual Science
          > but it is in fact that Spiritual Science contains the Logos of the
          > Etheric Christ thinking in it.
          >
          > But as I see it, GODOT, excuse me if I got your name wrong, it is
          so
          > highly clear that stone, plant, animal and human stand there before
          > your eyes and my eyes. That to produce the I Am from the Earth
          > Manvantara ----- the ASTRAL body from the Old Moon Manvantara ------

          > the ETHERIC BODY from the Sun evolution ------ and the physical
          body
          > designed from ancient Saturn....When we clearly with scientific
          eyes
          > look at the reality of these phases in, and pralayas that bring
          > about the mix and phases on earth of mineral, plant, animal and
          > human, there is no way not to see that the mineral has no etheric,
          > that the plant has no astral body, (externalized in the insect
          > kingdom) and the animal has no I AM or individualized thinking and
          > memory capacity. People have to shake themselves out of their
          > stupidity and bad education to grasp the clarity of this before our
          > eyes. And it is expected that refusal, disbelief and inability to
          > think because of subjective educational issues and subjective souls
          > issues will continue to obstruct and block The Etheric Christ
          > Sciences.
          >
          > But to overcome some of the lumbering aspects of the science of the
          > Earth I AM system, we resort to how the Stars, not the big bang,
          > which is utterly a stupid idea to imply that this all emerged as a
          > bomb of chaos and haphazard EVOLUTION, really begs the question of
          > what do you think Intelligent Design implies?
          >
          > According to Fundamentalism, Intelligent design is linked to
          > Biblical Fundamentalism, creationism of 7 days of creation.
          Nonsense
          > again!!! Theosophy was always closer to the understanding of
          > Intelligent Design, but now we have to understand why certain
          > Ahrimanic forces would insert the name INTELLIGENT DESIGN, which
          > should apply to anything that Occult Science an Outline delivers,
          > steal the term, and apply this to Fundamental Biblical Creationism.
          > Creationism is Biblical reductionism. Creationism arises from what
          > we in the west term the Cliff Notes for the dull and stupid, to
          > include some facts...such as SEVEN DAYS. Then we come to what is
          > this Seven and the Rainbow that Newton and Goethe argued over? And
          > what does Light and what Steve Hale brought, light measured at
          > 186,000 miles pers second, have to do with our understanding of 24
          > hour days and the lofty Elohim or Time jumping in the I AM. In
          other
          > words is the model of a human, an angel an Archangel as well as
          > animal, plant and stone, within the model of the whole family of
          > MAN? Duh, it is!!!!!
          >
          > But because we are not children, the Ahrimanic and Luciferic have
          > striven to retain these childish ideas and resist the Pauline
          > Schooling of "When I was a Child, I read Biblical fairy tales that
          > were way, way, way over my head," but gave little effort into
          > understanding from Theosophy or Anthroposophy what is truly the
          > meaning of INTELLIGENT DESIGN. Now we cannot use the word
          > Intelligent Design because it was hyjacked by Luciferic church
          going
          > ding-bats to be taught with utter LITERALISM and brainwashing to
          > children.
          >
          > Meanwhile all that has brought about the new Etheric Christ
          > education that fills the gap of old peasant wisdom in the previous
          > Waldorf and Education thread, means that the vast Etheric Christ
          > contains the cohesion of the Etheric thinking field of the
          organized
          > unfolding system from far back and beyond our human insertion all
          > the way to the present. Hijacking the term intelligent design makes
          > Ahriman happy for it locks out real thinking. Those folks who are
          > quietly serving Luciferic and Ahrimanic aims, don't even create the
          > opportunity to really understand what Intelligent Design would
          mean.
          > It traps these others in what we term the Sentient Soul corruption
          > where Lucifer remains trapped in the giddy region of Sin, Sex and
          > guilt of the old church values. Such dull and clunky thinking also
          > serves the educational clumsiness of the Intellectual Soul which
          > fuels every university and fuels as well the stupidity of our
          > current political process.
          >
          > So then you ask about Amoeba and contra Manu it is a can of worms
          > which each and everyone of us are required to unravel or else.
          Today
          > we have stars over our heads. The reality is that the complex math
          > configurations and gateway to the stars are part of the Angelic
          > field operations of how each child is given a twelvefold, twelve
          > pairs of cranial nerves that supplies the insertion of the spirit
          > germ into the birth of the physical child and gives this child a
          > star compass, an actual star compass in their grey matter and
          within
          > the mathematical dead zone of the great Stars above us. This vast
          > idea must be digested and that requires serious work. The Great
          > Stars above us are part of the micro model of the great stars
          within
          > us, that the Angelic community oversees when it helps to insert a
          > human into the stream of TIME. Again, most exciting research that
          > all begins to make sense, so that spiritual science students no
          > longer have to entertain nonsense and bullshit as educational
          > excuses for their failures to explain these insights. There is no
          > excuse for us to not go about unraveling these mysteries.
          >
          > So imagine the stupidity of skipping over how Zarathustra planned
          > his incarnation from Chaldea with the result of the Three Kings and
          > the Jesus Deed. Imagine how we don't consider Jesus some visiting
          > Avatar at all. The Christ Being Himself and every detail of His
          > union with a Human, reflects the fact that the Human is made in the
          > model of our elder brothers the gods.
          >
          > Zarathustra the Persian and Chaldea Initiate transended and worked
          > way outside the Star field and worked directly with planning on how
          > to insert himself into the Hebrew people so that Christ could
          ignite
          > Himself within the Etheric and Ethnic forces of warmth within the
          > Hebrew people and use that warmed iron rich blood to dive into the
          > bones of Spirit Man. The planning and the star mastery that
          > Zarathustra showed so dwarfs the dim bulbed science fiction of
          > sending ourselves in little spaceships to Mars via fully failed
          NASA
          > thinking. Or by looking directly into our own human system and
          > dealing with the fact of our having a strong Mars force within us.
          > Or the third option, is following the movements of Mars and
          > understanding that we invaded Iraq and went hyper war mode when
          Mars
          > was the closest to the Earth in som thousands of years. We must
          > account for the TWELVEFOLD cranial nerve package that we observe in
          > individuals who take their karma down to Earth and resolve issues
          of
          > destiny under Karma and star compass capacities that they bear. If
          > you don't understand these things about how the human nervous
          system
          > and the 12 pairs of cranial nerves function as a thought and
          > navigation tool for the birth date and birth of the child, you need
          > to study more.
          >
          > These all reveal what? What do they reveal? They reveal that this
          > Earth System, including the Stars above us, are fixed within the
          > human cranial nerve package, known as our astral body, and within
          > the Etheric Heart package of the human being. Therefore those stars
          > out there and planets are part of the intimate human package. We
          > grow this package of human capacities from the etheric heart of
          > childhood to the astral heart to the mature and ripened I AM heart,
          > the heart that is developed and was developed in Zarathustra/Jesus
          > by age 30.
          >
          > The human being journeys out and expands out to the stars at death
          > and shrinks and carries his star compass with him into Time as he
          is
          > born into a physical form on Earth. To conclude, the mineral cannot
          > say that; the plant cannot say that; the animal can partly say
          that;
          > but to the human being, we are the Stars and we carry the Stars and
          > we carry the entire Etheric Memory, that is carried now by the
          > Etheric Christ and the Etheric Christ Event which we date at its
          > strongest point of entry, Feb 27, 1933. The Etheric memory of
          > Saturn, Sun, Old Moon, Earth evolution as the foundations of His
          > Being....Now that is Science, anything short of that is chaotic
          > nonsense taught everywhere on this planet and has to be sorted out
          > by intelligent people. All we need is a few intelligent people.
          > Luckily Spiritual Science calls forth intelligent people.
          >
          > And in every detail from animal to stone, to plant, we can look
          > directly into the etheric cohesion and vast memory field as well as
          > the individual memory tableau released at death, and we can find
          > this etheric life and Light in the plant chemical digestion of
          light
          > and the human blood's digestion of thought, light, life and and the
          > so called qualities of light that appear in the thought world and
          > enter the blood, when we consider Luciferic thought and Luciferic
          > Light, Christ Etheric Light and Ahrimanic intellectual soul cunning
          > and electricity and nerve light. This we do in His Name when we
          > consider different qualities and effects of different types of Soul
          > Light.
          >
          > Steiner had the great good fortune to travel with a true
          Paracelsus,
          > herbalist who met him on a train, (later included as Felix and
          > Felcita Balde in The Mystery Dramas) and the links to earth
          sciences
          > awoke and were coaxed forward so that Steiner could understand the
          > intimate organization of nature and bring his vision in line with
          > reality. And that is the process, we all must do. Bring our sight
          in
          > line with reality. I started out with Culpepper and Paracelsus with
          > a small herb book in my hand comparing each tiny flower citizen.
          But
          > I am nothing on the path. Steiner had already developed such
          > powerful organizational logic fields in previous incarnations that
          > when he incarnated with his gifted young sight, Steiner needed to
          > anchor this sight deeply into the kingdom of Nature and that is why
          > he met the Herbalist.
          >
          > We can approach Spiritual Science from any particular angle and it
          > will make sense, but we also have to do particular extensive
          > monitoring our flaws and soul diversion escapades that are stirred
          > up just because we are encounter the solution to a thousand human
          > riddles because of the Etheric Christ Event in our thinking.
          >
        • holderlin66
          opetha wrote: but maybe (just maybe) have to consider how anthroposophy can become properly a world science when it is so objective as to leave behind the
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
            opetha wrote:

            "but maybe
            (just maybe) have to consider how anthroposophy can become properly
            a world "science" when it is so objective as to leave behind the
            Karmically stunted scientist--like myself. Your style of speaking in
            its surety with such physics is exactly the same as Barbara Hand Clow
            who speaks like-lucidly and non-fundamentally, but with a whole
            different spiritual law; that we have evolved from lizzards, the the
            annunaki on the planet nibiru gave the jews uranium commandment stone
            to take over are minds, and that the mayan-immigrant spirits in the
            Pleiades will nourish our world with spiritual light in AD 2012."

            Bradford comments;

            I know nothing about you, save how you approach your thought world.
            I have written extensively on the subjects of how Freud, Jung and
            Steiner form a whole and that whole takes it's start from the truths
            that come from each of these three representative agents. The
            problem you have that I don't have at present, is that I have
            already accepted Jung as one of the phases of unfolding insight. But
            let's review for you how reality, as opposed to the undiscerned,
            goobly-gook of Lizards from the large and unseen but resonating
            planet in our solar system, Nibiru can not in the least be compared
            with any seekers compass for truth.

            Don't expect to get some easy, anybody can make up any truth they
            want and reality is a crap shoot, bullshit answer to life's riddles.
            Freud has done wonders for the Mothering side of how the etheric
            shadows of our blood relationships influence our ethnic and etheric
            relations via what our mother's pass on to us. Freud represents a
            chaotic but interesting Woody Allen version of how much our blood
            and etheric developments can be crippled in our psychologies.

            Jung has generalized the unconscious and Steiner has mapped the
            unconscious. Jung made bold attempts to map the unconscious but for
            his region of soul, Jung managed to prepare some interesting ground
            work, particularly the anima and animus as already developed
            Spiritual Science themes of the accurate etheric mirror in us. That
            is what Emma Jung developed further, yet that is a theme that
            Steiner had already mapped. Meaning clearly and literally that
            opposite our physical sex, our etheric bodies carry an opposite
            mirror of our physical bodies. Which meant that our etheric bodies
            are male if we have a female physical body and our etheric bodies
            are female if we have a male etheric body. There is fact you take
            out of the Jungian scavenger hunt and replace back in the box of
            Steiner Science where it belongs. Jungian psychology has advanced
            many different aspects of soul and therefore we can give Jung a C-
            for incohesive understanding of the astral and soul body.

            So far we have Freud being an incomplete and fumbling version of how
            the perspective of psychology arises from the etheric body connected
            to our mothers which makes Woody Allen a bodhisattva of Freudian
            psychology. Jungian psychology attempts to map the threefhold system
            of intelligence, Jungian psychology is Anthro-lite. Jungian
            psychology verifies Athletic Intelligence - Emotional Intelligence
            and Brain bound intelligence...and all three of these operate in a
            threefold world that Steiner mapped far more carefully than any of
            these two. Waldorf is desgined to bring all three into harmony.
            Sports intelligence, instinctive intelligence and sports activated
            bodily intelligence truly resonates with one area and group of
            souls. Emotional intelligence, artists, strippers, lovers, writers,
            poets, singers, film makers....all weave forces of emotional
            intelligence with spits and spats of vision and imagination. Then we
            have dried up brain intellgence, polls, numbers, statistics, and
            really encapsulated in Mr. Stephen Hawkings entire riddle.

            Now I agree with your train wreck of nominalistic and realistic word
            use, that according to you Jung really, really wanted accurate
            semantics and definitions and strove to be clear... Well that is why
            most Anthros can truly understand and accept Jung's efforts and Emma
            Jung and Jungian thinkers, but Jungian thinkers are generally merely
            scavengers of astral dreams and subconscious worlds that have not
            been defined as part of the astral world at all. In fact Jungians
            have not defined the astral realities in relation to the super
            system of the nervous system of the human being. Freudians have not
            defined the etheric blood based ethnic forces as related to the
            lymphatic system which produces Freud's faulty concepts of Love of
            Mother. These Jungians and Freudians and other abstract researchers
            don't acknowledge the reality of the etheric world, don't consider
            the reality of the astral world, don't include in any way the
            advanced supersystem of the mighty Etheric Christ Being active
            within humanities etheric body. These researchers who deny all this
            and fumble around with great eastern terms and deny the system of
            the etheric, astral and I AM are not science students thay are rumor
            scavengers.

            No, I'm afraid to inform you that much of Jungian psychology is
            wonderfully foundational to any approach to Spiritual Science. But
            Spiritual Science is the Science of the I AM... that means that we
            take Freud as having danced around the issue of the etheric body and
            it can be clearly understood that Freud's gifts and failures have to
            do with his relation to the unfolding concepts and freed up concepts
            of the Etheric life. Which are laced with utter amateur nonsense.
            I'm afraid to inform you that Jungian research is still growing up
            and is not even yet close to I AM Science and wanders in the great
            halls of the astral body without even knowing it's name or it's use.
            And finally I am afraid to inform you that Steiner incorporates all
            three levels, the body, the soul and the spirit and the physical,
            etheric, and astral levels and Steiner himself is a scientist of the
            I Am.

            Now as you have seen in my current writings, there is a constant
            undercurrent sketch of the Etheric Christ Being as a reality that is
            under the mighty wave of science even as it struggled with wave and
            particle theories. I can trace with utter accuracy the dawn of the
            Age of Light, 1899 and trace the eastern terminologies of the
            unfolding eras and clearly bring to your attention how the Age of
            Light, the dawn of physics, Heisenberg's uncertainty principle and
            Jung's Sychronicity principle are tied. How Einstein's approach and
            research to the sense of light and energy and matter, were all
            developed side by side with the dawn of the Age of Light and the
            entrance of the vast Etheric Christ experience of humanity outlined
            by Steiner.

            The Kritayuga and the dawn of the vast Etheric Christ experience
            started rising as both wave and particle theories took root in the
            etheric thinking of humanity. Steiner clearly walked right up to the
            door of this age of Light and opened it to the bright illuminating
            source of the cohesion of intelligence and shining etheric Logos of
            the Risen Etheric Christ and ushered it in.

            Steiner directly worked with the dawn of the Etheric Christ and the
            inrushing Age of Light. The entire Hindu history of the ending of
            the kaliyuga to the dawning of the kritayuga and what we must both
            agree upon, as the Theosophical understanding of Intelligent Design
            and the Anthropsophical understanding of Intelligent Design, can
            clearly be read in the unfolding of Science and physics and the
            unfolding of the etheric sciences of Anthroposophy. These can be
            traced without your disclaimers that nobody can know baloney from
            truth. For the only thing you can say of yourself is that you are
            not ready or want to take an inconvienent stand to know the
            difference between your own baloney and truth and therefore prefer
            to keep certainty and clarity far from you, so that you think you
            can buy wiggle room.

            You are afraid that any reality that can be documented and
            understood with solid clarity just might be wrong...Well guess what,
            the vast Soul/Spirit model is woven with plenty of human leeway,
            plenty of play and plenty of room for human error allowed,
            nevertheless the model is there and it isn't waiting on whether your
            fickleness and emotional stability and your sense of being weighted
            down by reality might prevent you from soaring off to Lizards land
            on planet Nebiru or finding just as much truth there as under your
            bed on a dark and stormy night. The I AM system makes ALL INCLUDED.
            Just because there is a real Science of the universe, eventually
            your gonna have to come out of make believe land and understand how
            the Child develops and what are the true layers of soul and how a
            human reincarnates.

            That is why I was rather curious how you wish to avoid sinking your
            teeth into the wild and historical reality of such a thing as the
            true age of Light and my mention of the Etheric Christ in many, many
            instances. Now the Etheric Christ is not some stray belief, it is
            the Science of the Resurrection and the Science of Spiritual Science
            which was born from the Theosophy of Intelligent Design. The error I
            hope you are not making, is that the well developed and well planned
            incarnation of Jesus by the conscious Initiate Zarathustra wasn't a
            belief in some god, it was the full fledged accomplishment of that
            which is the core of Resurrection Science and material science, the
            conquering and planting of the seed of Spirit Man in the historical,
            physical, etheric and astral forces of the I AM. In other words, the
            Etheric Christ is not a belief but a fact of nature and reality.

            I suggest you wander in the halls of Jung and Theosophy until you
            are totally and happily convinced that there are so many realities
            and like a good candy store, why should you settle for one. And
            aren't we fools who use the whole I AM system to understand all the
            realities and any reality that any human mind can come up with. Now
            all the realities very well exist, as you have said, in the soul
            mind of many different people. But don't even imagine that somehow
            this cheap astral scavenger hunt that Jung so enjoys changes one
            fact of the Christ Event. It doesn't! It requires humanity to plunge
            into the superstructure and Intelligent Design of their own I AM.
            Right now the astral body and all the thrills of pretending there
            are no laws...allows you and allows us all to have that wonderful
            feeling of the rich playground fit and save for all truths.

            But the compass of the Spiritual anchor in the I AM can only be
            satisified with the kiddie pool for so long. When you decide to get
            serious or develop your happy meal freedom within the super joy of
            the vast I AM logos...you don't need permission from Jung, Freud or
            Steiner. The law of the I AM is seriously larger than both Jung and
            Freud or any Jungian model. And finally, much of Jungian psychology
            and Theosophy do not disagree with the Intelligent Design of
            Spiritual Science. Here is your hall pass go have fun!!!
          • holderlin66
            In addition to various ways to describe the human being, they amount to several, lets say for the present, FOUR, integrated forces that have their origin in
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
              In addition to various ways to describe the human being, they amount
              to several, lets say for the present, FOUR, integrated forces that
              have their origin in the already refined substance of the stars,
              that we term Fire, Air, Water and Earth. So the educator and
              psychologist such as Jung and Steiner or Jungians and Steinerians,
              have entered the workshop of human resources and the CIA has entered
              the arena of education in order to wallpaper over the source of
              these Etheric realities that each human soul brings with them when
              they incarnate.

              In previous research I have described how the vast origins of active
              and particpatory elemental beings come into service and incarnation
              with the child. Only slowly, and we have described on this list only
              recently how the etheric heart slowly ripens with the astral heart
              and slowly ripens to become the central sun of the I AM heart. Here
              the human personality shines and illuminates themselves down to the
              core of their being. Glocker and Staley on this list have previously
              researched the Etheric Heart and Robert Mason vividly provided
              additonal research to the subject.

              But then the personality absorbs the work of the elemental beings
              who reprsent fire - air - water and earth in ourselves, blood fire,
              lung and heart beat in accord with the precession of 25,920 in synch
              with breathing, water in the terms of how Christ offered that Man
              must be born of Fire and Water or etheric lymphatic mysteries and
              the conquering fire of unconditional Logos illuminated Love which
              brilliantly flames in the human I AM, as that which is seriously
              recorded as the Transfiguration. All these are mighty science
              penetrations of the Cosmic I AM into the micro I Am of Man.

              But to build the bones, to build the blood, personality and
              temperaments that we try to discover in certain "compatibility
              tests" and these come in all sizes and shapes including the 'perfect
              computerized Love Match" and attempt to wallpaper over the mysteries
              that have been outlined above in the human personality, we need to
              be wary of. It really means that you make no effort to build for
              yourselves true etheric insights. So for Jungians and Spiritual
              Science students this is the origin, the starry quarters of our
              higher being have carried with us, active elemental worlds,
              salamandars, sylphs, nymphs and gnomes...Buddha released all these
              wonderful beings when he completed his emancipation of Spirit
              Selfhood on Earth.

              Buddha and Mother/ Dream I

              "One full moon night, sleeping in the palace, the queen had a vivid
              dream. She felt herself being carried away by four devas (spirits)
              to Lake Anotatta in the Himalayas. After bathing her in the lake,
              the devas clothed her in heavenly cloths, anointed her with
              perfumes, and bedecked her with divine flowers. Soon after a white
              elephant, holding a white lotus flower in its trunk, appeared and
              went round her three times, entering her womb through her right
              side. Finally the elephant disappeared and the queen awoke, knowing
              she had been delivered an important message, as the elephant is a
              symbol of greatness in Nepal. The next day, early in the morning,
              the queen told the king about the dream. The king was puzzled and
              sent for some wise men to discover the meaning of the dream."

              http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhism/lifebuddha/1lbud.htm

              Bradford sketches comments;

              Full Moon, watery mysteries, entering her womb through her right
              side, and FOUR DEVAS...Four Devas..Four different elemental beings
              that were the TEMPERAMENTS study for us on this list. Elemental
              Beings who serve the growth and development of the child and in this
              case these Devas are going to be freed up from having served the
              material and personal cohesion of this incarnating being, and it is
              very likely that in that incarnation, Buddha, will achieve what
              Buddhahood means, rank of Angel, and not needing to borrow the
              gnome, sylph, nymph or salamander beings, who have become immensely
              humanized and full of compassion and literally volunteer to serve
              when the Jesus task comes up to imbue the rich fountain of
              compassion in this Jesus Human.

              " Paracelsus added his two cents in the Middle Ages when he
              described human nature as being influenced by four kinds of spirits."

              Bradford comments;

              Four kinds of elemental spirits, four etheric personality assistants
              to serve the unfolding human development, brings us into the area of
              what we are seeing when we are seeing the qualities that we are
              seeing in each human personality.

              Paracelsus was a real doctor. A real seeing human, who did his
              homework and made his bones in mountain herbs, remedies in flowers,
              meadows, stones and stars. Paracelsus was a real Cosmos Taught,
              cosmos trained and probably carried insights from his past into his
              capacities as a human being named Paracelsus. Doctors also hated
              him.

              Humans are meant to see ever deeper into the matrix of human
              behavior. And surprise, what happens when we come across an
              elemental being that assists, and conforms itself to the human mood,
              and mingles between the sanguine sylph like sugar high, or the
              fiery/salamandar, run in our hot blooded adrenal forces that make
              adrenal junkies, firemen, and ambulance drivers so
              interesting...waiting for that FIRE. Then we have the big
              phlegmatic, horrific fast food elemental beings that have turned
              most Americans into chubby rolls of jiggly blubber. You can see
              these horrific ugly elementals parade themselves in TELETUBBY land.
              And of course the gnomish, reclusive, veiled and hooded, even to the
              point of wearing hoods, melancholics.

              What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
              friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
              within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
              exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
              in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
              taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
              our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child should
              not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
              friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent ASAP "Heart
              and Souls".

              Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
              called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
              people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
              air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
              need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
              and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to understand
              anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the dots
              that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
              Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything.

              http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107091/

              "Robert Downey, Jr. plays a young man whose life is going very well:
              he's engaged to Elisabeth Shue, he's got a lot of money working as a
              lawyer or such...until some old friends of his drop in--imaginary
              friends, that is. Sort of. Dead imaginary friends that only he can
              see.

              "Many years ago, some people boarded a bus, including Charles Grodin
              and Tom Sizemore. The bus flipped over a bridge and everyone died,
              going to heaven. But then they came back down involuntarily to
              Downey as a child and stayed with him for a few years. Every time
              they tried to leave him, they were pulled back to him. Until he was
              about eight, then they somehow managed to leave because they were
              influencing his schoolwork and life (I don't remember how they got
              out of it). Now they're back to haunt him again, because they need
              him to help get to heaven.

              holderlin had previously researched:

              "What the true Waldorf
              Teacher would aim for, is that all four of the fire, air, water and
              earth, all four of the Choleric, Sanguine, Phlegmatic or Melancholic
              temperaments would be of use and in balanced animation in every
              child. A true Waldorf Teacher knows that you want maximum mobility
              and that the child will need the buried treasures of the four ethers
              as they move through all the stages of life."

              Other supportive research to advanced psychology:

              "The earliest recorded attempts of humans to explain the differences
              among us are found in ancient astrology. Astrology said that the
              way the heavens were aligned when you were born determined your
              behavior. Astrologers used twelve constellations in the sky and
              four major groupings, symbolized by earth, air, fire, and water.
              They claimed that the movement of the sun, moon, and planets would
              influence your behavior patterns or your fate.

              Thousands of years ago, stars were what they went by, and your
              personality was determined "out there" in the heavens.

              Then, about 400 B.C., Hippocrates (the "Father of Medicine")
              developed a concept of "humours." He introduced a radical idea that
              said personality was determined by elements inside your body, not
              the stars outside your body. For a well-balanced temperament, he
              thought you needed equal amounts of the 4 body fluids: black bile,
              yellow bile, blood, and phlegm. (Delightful, huh?)

              Hippocrates associated his "humours" with Temperament names. Many
              people are familiar with them: Choleric, Phlegmatic, Sanguine, and
              Melancholic. (I'm still fond of using these names sometimes.) So
              that's when the naming game started, and everybody came up with
              their version and their names for these four types. Paracelsus
              added his two cents in the Middle Ages when he described human
              nature as being influenced by four kinds of spirits. Hindu wisdom
              proposes four central desires, and even the American Indian Medicine
              Wheel features four spirit keepers similar to the Temperaments.

              If we study the ways personality have been described over the past
              25 centuries (there are even references in the Bible!), we discover
              a consistent tendency for behavior to sort itself into four basic
              activity patterns. These patterns represent the four Temperaments.
              In other words, there are four common threads:

              Four Personality Types

              Hippocrates (450BC)
              Sanguine
              Melancholic
              Phlegmatic
              Choleric

              Plato (350BC)
              Artistic
              Civic
              Scientific
              Philosophic

              Galen (250AD)
              Excited
              Serious
              Tranquil
              Enthused

              Paracelsus (1530)
              Changeable
              Industrious
              Curious
              Devoted

              Adickes (1905)
              Innovative
              Traditional
              Skeptical
              Doctrinaire

              Spranger (1914)
              Aesthetic
              Economical
              Theoretical
              Ethical

              Kretschmer (1930)
              Hypomanic
              Depressive
              Anaesthetic
              Hyperaesthetic

              Fromm (1947)
              Exploiting
              Hoarding
              Marketing
              Receptive

              Myers (1955)
              Realistic
              Scheduled
              Logical
              Emotional

              Keirsey/Bates (1960s)
              Dionysian
              Epimethean
              Promethean
              Appolonian

              Keirsey (1970s)
              Artisan
              Guardian
              Rational
              Idealist

              "It's important to recognize that Temperament is not just about
              observable behaviors, but rather about behavioral patterns that are
              evidence of underlying motivators -- core psychological needs that
              when not met drive us to get them met (and not always in a positive
              way), core values that drive the choices we make and the positions
              we take on things, and related talents that help us get those needs
              met. These underlying motivators must be inferred from the observed
              behavior patterns over time and in a variety of contexts.

              "The pattern of one's Temperament is there to begin with, like a DNA
              code in its infancy, and it emerges via interaction with the "field"
              or the environment. Thus we all have a core self for which the
              template is there from birth, and then we have a developed self that
              results from the interaction of the context or the situations we
              find ourselves in and the inner push from the core to grow and
              develop in certain ways to fulfill the pattern. The pattern will be
              there always, even though it may sometimes look like other patterns
              on the surface.

              "Temperament refers to the theme of the personality, the
              configuration. It gets at the very essence of what makes us who we
              are. Temperament identifies the basic psychological needs and core
              values that drive our behavior and our choices. Related to these
              basic needs are favorite talents, communication styles, approaches
              to, and perspectives on life."

              http://www.infj.com/INFJ_Temperament.htm
            • holderlin66
              CORRECTIONs: Meaning clearly and literally that opposite our physical sex, our etheric bodies carry an opposite mirror of our physical bodies. Which meant
              Message 6 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
                CORRECTIONs:

                " Meaning clearly and literally that
                opposite our physical sex, our etheric bodies carry an opposite
                mirror of our physical bodies. Which meant that our etheric bodies
                are male if we have a female physical body and our etheric bodies
                are female if we have a male SHOULD READ - PHYSICAL (not etheric)
                BODY. There is fact you CAN take out of the Jungian scavenger hunt and
                replace back in the box of Steiner Science where it belongs."
              • Steve Hale
                ... ... The idea of synchronicity and the concept of eternal recurrence was made popular by Jung, yet he did not understand it to the degree necessary
                Message 7 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                  <snip>
                  > And all these dispositions can only be based on karma, which is, even
                  > in wooden psychology, a empirical and provable science. And this is
                  > only provable is (for their sake) we abandon the whole notion (for
                  > the time being) of spiritual energy from the planets (though you,
                  > Bradford, and Steve Hale cannot do this) and reckon the idea of
                  > synchroncity.

                  The idea of synchronicity and the concept of eternal recurrence was
                  made popular by Jung, yet he did not understand it to the degree
                  necessary to make it anything more than the typical symbolic-mandalic,
                  mumbo jumbo that you express with your own very typical new-age
                  hodgepodge.

                  Thus, synchronicity from the standpoint of spiritual science concerns
                  the actual and progressive approach that is occurring right now, since
                  the advent of the 5th cultural epoch, for a remembrance of our past
                  lives. You'll find that experiences that come under the banner of
                  Jungian synchronicity concern increasing and extended events wherein
                  the sense of being here before is quite pronounced. I myself had an
                  extended experience of this so-called "deja vu" back in the third grade
                  when my school class went on a field trip to a railway station that had
                  been maintained just as it was at the turn of the 20th century. And I
                  remember being transfixed for the entire time we were there, feeling
                  the sense that I had experienced this very environment before. It was
                  very odd, yet quite a satisfying feeling as well.

                  And what is important about the phenomena of synchronicity concerns the
                  need to make contact with our past lives, as it represents the very
                  substance of what will someday yield the fifth soul development; the
                  anandamayakosha, or bliss sheath, which will serve to convey our
                  immortality to ourselves as a certainty.

                  Steve
                • carol
                  Bradford spoke of the: elemental being that assists, and conforms itself to the human mood I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact a
                  Message 8 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
                    Bradford spoke of the: "elemental being that assists, and conforms
                    itself to the human mood"

                    I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact
                    a `predominance' of let's say the gnome elemental being within
                    various individuals or is it an external expression of the soul's
                    subconscious encounter with the Ahramanic being, of late:

                    -Young people who extensively or not, body pierce themselves in
                    unaesthetic places. Include to this, gross overuse of tattooing.

                    Does Bradford have an answer?


                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                    <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > In addition to various ways to describe the human being, they
                    amount
                    > to several, lets say for the present, FOUR, integrated forces that
                    > have their origin in the already refined substance of the stars,
                    > that we term Fire, Air, Water and Earth. So the educator and
                    > psychologist such as Jung and Steiner or Jungians and Steinerians,
                    > have entered the workshop of human resources and the CIA has
                    entered
                    > the arena of education in order to wallpaper over the source of
                    > these Etheric realities that each human soul brings with them when
                    > they incarnate.
                    >
                    > In previous research I have described how the vast origins of
                    active
                    > and particpatory elemental beings come into service and
                    incarnation
                    > with the child. Only slowly, and we have described on this list
                    only
                    > recently how the etheric heart slowly ripens with the astral heart
                    > and slowly ripens to become the central sun of the I AM heart.
                    Here
                    > the human personality shines and illuminates themselves down to
                    the
                    > core of their being. Glocker and Staley on this list have
                    previously
                    > researched the Etheric Heart and Robert Mason vividly provided
                    > additonal research to the subject.
                    >
                    > But then the personality absorbs the work of the elemental beings
                    > who reprsent fire - air - water and earth in ourselves, blood
                    fire,
                    > lung and heart beat in accord with the precession of 25,920 in
                    synch
                    > with breathing, water in the terms of how Christ offered that Man
                    > must be born of Fire and Water or etheric lymphatic mysteries and
                    > the conquering fire of unconditional Logos illuminated Love which
                    > brilliantly flames in the human I AM, as that which is seriously
                    > recorded as the Transfiguration. All these are mighty science
                    > penetrations of the Cosmic I AM into the micro I Am of Man.
                    >
                    > But to build the bones, to build the blood, personality and
                    > temperaments that we try to discover in certain "compatibility
                    > tests" and these come in all sizes and shapes including
                    the 'perfect
                    > computerized Love Match" and attempt to wallpaper over the
                    mysteries
                    > that have been outlined above in the human personality, we need to
                    > be wary of. It really means that you make no effort to build for
                    > yourselves true etheric insights. So for Jungians and Spiritual
                    > Science students this is the origin, the starry quarters of our
                    > higher being have carried with us, active elemental worlds,
                    > salamandars, sylphs, nymphs and gnomes...Buddha released all these
                    > wonderful beings when he completed his emancipation of Spirit
                    > Selfhood on Earth.
                    >
                    > Buddha and Mother/ Dream I
                    >
                    > "One full moon night, sleeping in the palace, the queen had a vivid
                    > dream. She felt herself being carried away by four devas (spirits)
                    > to Lake Anotatta in the Himalayas. After bathing her in the lake,
                    > the devas clothed her in heavenly cloths, anointed her with
                    > perfumes, and bedecked her with divine flowers. Soon after a white
                    > elephant, holding a white lotus flower in its trunk, appeared and
                    > went round her three times, entering her womb through her right
                    > side. Finally the elephant disappeared and the queen awoke, knowing
                    > she had been delivered an important message, as the elephant is a
                    > symbol of greatness in Nepal. The next day, early in the morning,
                    > the queen told the king about the dream. The king was puzzled and
                    > sent for some wise men to discover the meaning of the dream."
                    >
                    > http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhism/lifebuddha/1lbud.htm
                    >
                    > Bradford sketches comments;
                    >
                    > Full Moon, watery mysteries, entering her womb through her right
                    > side, and FOUR DEVAS...Four Devas..Four different elemental beings
                    > that were the TEMPERAMENTS study for us on this list. Elemental
                    > Beings who serve the growth and development of the child and in
                    this
                    > case these Devas are going to be freed up from having served the
                    > material and personal cohesion of this incarnating being, and it is
                    > very likely that in that incarnation, Buddha, will achieve what
                    > Buddhahood means, rank of Angel, and not needing to borrow the
                    > gnome, sylph, nymph or salamander beings, who have become immensely
                    > humanized and full of compassion and literally volunteer to serve
                    > when the Jesus task comes up to imbue the rich fountain of
                    > compassion in this Jesus Human.
                    >
                    > " Paracelsus added his two cents in the Middle Ages when he
                    > described human nature as being influenced by four kinds of
                    spirits."
                    >
                    > Bradford comments;
                    >
                    > Four kinds of elemental spirits, four etheric personality
                    assistants
                    > to serve the unfolding human development, brings us into the area
                    of
                    > what we are seeing when we are seeing the qualities that we are
                    > seeing in each human personality.
                    >
                    > Paracelsus was a real doctor. A real seeing human, who did his
                    > homework and made his bones in mountain herbs, remedies in flowers,
                    > meadows, stones and stars. Paracelsus was a real Cosmos Taught,
                    > cosmos trained and probably carried insights from his past into his
                    > capacities as a human being named Paracelsus. Doctors also hated
                    > him.
                    >
                    > Humans are meant to see ever deeper into the matrix of human
                    > behavior. And surprise, what happens when we come across an
                    > elemental being that assists, and conforms itself to the human
                    mood,
                    > and mingles between the sanguine sylph like sugar high, or the
                    > fiery/salamandar, run in our hot blooded adrenal forces that make
                    > adrenal junkies, firemen, and ambulance drivers so
                    > interesting...waiting for that FIRE. Then we have the big
                    > phlegmatic, horrific fast food elemental beings that have turned
                    > most Americans into chubby rolls of jiggly blubber. You can see
                    > these horrific ugly elementals parade themselves in TELETUBBY land.
                    > And of course the gnomish, reclusive, veiled and hooded, even to
                    the
                    > point of wearing hoods, melancholics.
                    >
                    > What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
                    > friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
                    > within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
                    > exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
                    > in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
                    > taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
                    > our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child
                    should
                    > not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
                    > friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent
                    ASAP "Heart
                    > and Souls".
                    >
                    > Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
                    > called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
                    > people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
                    > air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
                    > need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
                    > and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to
                    understand
                    > anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the
                    dots
                    > that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
                    > Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything.
                    >
                    > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107091/
                    >
                    > "Robert Downey, Jr. plays a young man whose life is going very
                    well:
                    > he's engaged to Elisabeth Shue, he's got a lot of money working as
                    a
                    > lawyer or such...until some old friends of his drop in--imaginary
                    > friends, that is. Sort of. Dead imaginary friends that only he can
                    > see.
                    >
                    > "Many years ago, some people boarded a bus, including Charles
                    Grodin
                    > and Tom Sizemore. The bus flipped over a bridge and everyone died,
                    > going to heaven. But then they came back down involuntarily to
                    > Downey as a child and stayed with him for a few years. Every time
                    > they tried to leave him, they were pulled back to him. Until he was
                    > about eight, then they somehow managed to leave because they were
                    > influencing his schoolwork and life (I don't remember how they got
                    > out of it). Now they're back to haunt him again, because they need
                    > him to help get to heaven.
                    >
                    > holderlin had previously researched:
                    >
                    > "What the true Waldorf
                    > Teacher would aim for, is that all four of the fire, air, water and
                    > earth, all four of the Choleric, Sanguine, Phlegmatic or
                    Melancholic
                    > temperaments would be of use and in balanced animation in every
                    > child. A true Waldorf Teacher knows that you want maximum mobility
                    > and that the child will need the buried treasures of the four
                    ethers
                    > as they move through all the stages of life."
                    >
                    > Other supportive research to advanced psychology:
                    >
                    > "The earliest recorded attempts of humans to explain the
                    differences
                    > among us are found in ancient astrology. Astrology said that the
                    > way the heavens were aligned when you were born determined your
                    > behavior. Astrologers used twelve constellations in the sky and
                    > four major groupings, symbolized by earth, air, fire, and water.
                    > They claimed that the movement of the sun, moon, and planets would
                    > influence your behavior patterns or your fate.
                    >
                    > Thousands of years ago, stars were what they went by, and your
                    > personality was determined "out there" in the heavens.
                    >
                    > Then, about 400 B.C., Hippocrates (the "Father of Medicine")
                    > developed a concept of "humours." He introduced a radical idea that
                    > said personality was determined by elements inside your body, not
                    > the stars outside your body. For a well-balanced temperament, he
                    > thought you needed equal amounts of the 4 body fluids: black bile,
                    > yellow bile, blood, and phlegm. (Delightful, huh?)
                    >
                    > Hippocrates associated his "humours" with Temperament names. Many
                    > people are familiar with them: Choleric, Phlegmatic, Sanguine, and
                    > Melancholic. (I'm still fond of using these names sometimes.) So
                    > that's when the naming game started, and everybody came up with
                    > their version and their names for these four types. Paracelsus
                    > added his two cents in the Middle Ages when he described human
                    > nature as being influenced by four kinds of spirits. Hindu wisdom
                    > proposes four central desires, and even the American Indian
                    Medicine
                    > Wheel features four spirit keepers similar to the Temperaments.
                    >
                    > If we study the ways personality have been described over the past
                    > 25 centuries (there are even references in the Bible!), we discover
                    > a consistent tendency for behavior to sort itself into four basic
                    > activity patterns. These patterns represent the four Temperaments.
                    > In other words, there are four common threads:
                    >
                    > Four Personality Types
                    >
                    > Hippocrates (450BC)
                    > Sanguine
                    > Melancholic
                    > Phlegmatic
                    > Choleric
                    >
                    > Plato (350BC)
                    > Artistic
                    > Civic
                    > Scientific
                    > Philosophic
                    >
                    > Galen (250AD)
                    > Excited
                    > Serious
                    > Tranquil
                    > Enthused
                    >
                    > Paracelsus (1530)
                    > Changeable
                    > Industrious
                    > Curious
                    > Devoted
                    >
                    > Adickes (1905)
                    > Innovative
                    > Traditional
                    > Skeptical
                    > Doctrinaire
                    >
                    > Spranger (1914)
                    > Aesthetic
                    > Economical
                    > Theoretical
                    > Ethical
                    >
                    > Kretschmer (1930)
                    > Hypomanic
                    > Depressive
                    > Anaesthetic
                    > Hyperaesthetic
                    >
                    > Fromm (1947)
                    > Exploiting
                    > Hoarding
                    > Marketing
                    > Receptive
                    >
                    > Myers (1955)
                    > Realistic
                    > Scheduled
                    > Logical
                    > Emotional
                    >
                    > Keirsey/Bates (1960s)
                    > Dionysian
                    > Epimethean
                    > Promethean
                    > Appolonian
                    >
                    > Keirsey (1970s)
                    > Artisan
                    > Guardian
                    > Rational
                    > Idealist
                    >
                    > "It's important to recognize that Temperament is not just about
                    > observable behaviors, but rather about behavioral patterns that are
                    > evidence of underlying motivators -- core psychological needs that
                    > when not met drive us to get them met (and not always in a positive
                    > way), core values that drive the choices we make and the positions
                    > we take on things, and related talents that help us get those needs
                    > met. These underlying motivators must be inferred from the observed
                    > behavior patterns over time and in a variety of contexts.
                    >
                    > "The pattern of one's Temperament is there to begin with, like a
                    DNA
                    > code in its infancy, and it emerges via interaction with
                    the "field"
                    > or the environment. Thus we all have a core self for which the
                    > template is there from birth, and then we have a developed self
                    that
                    > results from the interaction of the context or the situations we
                    > find ourselves in and the inner push from the core to grow and
                    > develop in certain ways to fulfill the pattern. The pattern will be
                    > there always, even though it may sometimes look like other patterns
                    > on the surface.
                    >
                    > "Temperament refers to the theme of the personality, the
                    > configuration. It gets at the very essence of what makes us who we
                    > are. Temperament identifies the basic psychological needs and core
                    > values that drive our behavior and our choices. Related to these
                    > basic needs are favorite talents, communication styles, approaches
                    > to, and perspectives on life."
                    >
                    > http://www.infj.com/INFJ_Temperament.htm
                    >
                  • opetha
                    Hello Bradford OK, I understand what you re saying if only you wouldn t go so far ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of that
                    Message 9 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
                      Hello Bradford

                      OK, I understand what you're saying if only you wouldn't go so far
                      ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of that
                      psychological type.

                      Jung's teaching was empirical as possible, he did not want to venture
                      into the realm of spiritual sciences because he would leave mankind
                      behind, which is what you tend to do. I don't agree with the notion
                      that analytical psychology is a "scavenger hunt", the truth is that
                      Jung and Steinar are like two sides of a coin, Jung of the
                      unconscious and Steinar of the concious, and that you are biased
                      because you represent, not a higher thinking, but a different HALF,
                      and this is an empirical and provable thing (please don't argue with
                      this--I know exactly what you will say). The set of four psychologicl
                      types in Jung is not based on the same type of conscious thinking as
                      all those quartets you gave me, and , unfortunately, is understood
                      even less by spiritual thinking other philosophies.

                      [I hope this comes out well in the post....]

                      THINKING
                      *
                      *
                      *
                      INTUITION****************SENSATION
                      *
                      *
                      *
                      FEELING

                      These are not vague concepts as in the elements and biles.
                      Jung says of your THINKING type:

                      "..there is still a another form of negative thinking, which at first
                      glance might not be recognized as such, and that is THEOSOPHICAL
                      THINKING, which today is rapidly spreading in all parts of the world,
                      presumably in reaction to materialism of the recent past.
                      Theosophical thinkng has an air that is not in the least reductive
                      [that is, you will not come down to my level!!--Godot] since it
                      exalts everything to a transcendental and world-embracing idea. A
                      dream, for instance, is no longer just a dream, but an experience 'on
                      another plane.' The herethereto fact of telepathy is very simply
                      explained in 'vibrations' passing from one person to another. An
                      ordinary nervous complaint is explained by the fact that something
                      has collided with my 'astral body'.....We have only to open a
                      theosophical book to be overwhelmed by the realization that
                      everything is already explained, and that 'spiritual science' has
                      left no enigmas unsolved. But, at bottom, this type of thinking is
                      just as negative as materialistic thinking. When the latter regards
                      psychology as chemical changes in the ganglia or ther extrusion and
                      retraction of cell-pseudopodia or as internal secretion, this is as
                      much a superstition as theosophy. The only thing is that theosophy
                      reduces everything to eastern metaphysics.....Not only are both
                      methods of explanation futile, they are actually destructive, because
                      by diverting interest away from the main issue....to imaginary
                      vibrations, they hamper any serious investigation of the problem by
                      bogus explanation. Either kind of thinking is sterile and
                      sterilizing. Its negative quality is due to the fact it is so
                      indescribably cheap." -Psychological Types, X.2

                      This cross of function types is an innate truth, not a conditioned
                      one by meditation which any other quaternary of types would be.
                      The "theosophical" thinking is not the I AM you think it is because
                      it is the outer arm of this cross. You and Steve have written so
                      much, but to me it doesn't quite speak my language, you use many
                      metpahors and "force" words to prove you are excilerated, but in bias
                      you will not reckon with the other half of mankind, like lucifer.
                      Don't get me wrong, I am one wanting to develop my spiritual
                      integrity, but it doesn't come quite as you think.

                      You call me a "scavenger" and Mr. Hale says my talking is "new-age
                      hodge-podge" (hang on !!--I thought you were the new-agers), which
                      shows you are very combative in your own personalitistic ways and
                      defensive of your drives, almost adolescent--and I have nothing
                      against this, I will try to be fair but I'm still worried that you
                      are UNABLE to be; and only stress this because, afterall, if you want
                      to communicate with mankind you had better be considerate and not
                      talk in the language you do of warped "power-words" to your own kind,
                      and to your paying audience, because "mankind", as you maybe use that
                      term, will NOT listen to you if you go so far ahead of them. What the
                      other half of us CAN experience is our own unknown soul, which is the
                      empirical unconscious (to reiterate Jung and Steinar are quite the
                      opposites, Steinar was equally right because he had no
                      unconsciousness, and what he did know of unconsciousness was
                      conditioned by conscious metaphor and not by deductive reasoning---
                      i.e. the dream-world is the "macrocosm" and not an instancing of sub-
                      conscious complexes).

                      A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school and
                      shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use him as
                      an example of someone who can be cured by analytical psychology, but
                      NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the leaps of faith and
                      consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars until he confronts
                      himself on the Earth, no matter how "scavangering" this will be to
                      him. You want to propound your science through cosmic rhetoric more
                      than you want to heal, is this not so?

                      Other (fundamental) thinking types with this type of "be all end all"
                      thinking include Hitler and, on TV today, Docter Zakir Naik of the
                      IRF and who claims that all sciences were written in the Q'URAN
                      before they were discovered, proving God's greatness (and also that
                      the Q'URAN is the most-divine poetry ever written !!). Both are great
                      extraverted talkers because they BELEIVE 100% what they are saying is
                      true, and the audience get cosmic about this, and propaganda rears
                      its head. The unconsciouis has innate and fundamental referencing
                      that can counteract any rarified thinking--but you anthroposophists
                      cannot understand my language because the feeling-tone behnd yours.

                      I take it my use of the word "karma" to you was a scavaging. I could
                      equally say the same of Steinar's use of the word "unconscious". The
                      natal horoscope progressed at 1/360th of its normal speed shows the
                      symbols that, bad or good, will be activated in our course of life.
                      These are synchronicities in so far that they give shape, heiroglyp
                      and/or colour to unconscious archetypes without such, and give them a
                      linear qualification. This is the best argument for the "spiritual
                      sciences", this method of "psychological-astrology", because it is
                      provable on the subjective plane and not on the objective. It is not
                      scavaging in the sense that Jung is stealing something from your
                      school, you have to be considerate and pay heed to this your opposite
                      and compensator. The mandala was not new-age hodge-podge, it was a
                      glimpse into the innateness of that horoscope and its centre as the
                      SELF (or Brahm, the aura eminating from a plant was just one of the
                      baised illusions Buddha destroyed).

                      I would love to see aura and travel on the astral planet like you
                      might do (I have already innitiated SOME magical virtues, still with
                      the empirical unconsious undernieth, and still with my consideration
                      of your mind set and abandining my own at those instances) but if I
                      advance in this area it may not be because you have taught me but
                      because I have taught myself. It may be because I am British and have
                      not the type of whispy heads that you Americans have, but I cannot
                      affiliate myself with something so biased and off centre and that is
                      too depserate to convince like olf Adolf and Doctor Naik. The astral
                      rewards are one thing--yes, I know that, but the abandonement of the
                      emprirical unconscious (with mankind aong with it) is quite another.
                      I will stick to my raja yoga and destroy your lucifer AND my ahriman.

                      With love,
                      Godot.








                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@> wrote:
                      > <snip>
                      > > And all these dispositions can only be based on karma, which is,
                      even
                      > > in wooden psychology, a empirical and provable science. And this
                      is
                      > > only provable is (for their sake) we abandon the whole notion
                      (for
                      > > the time being) of spiritual energy from the planets (though you,
                      > > Bradford, and Steve Hale cannot do this) and reckon the idea of
                      > > synchroncity.
                      >
                      > The idea of synchronicity and the concept of eternal recurrence was
                      > made popular by Jung, yet he did not understand it to the degree
                      > necessary to make it anything more than the typical symbolic-
                      mandalic,
                      > mumbo jumbo that you express with your own very typical new-age
                      > hodgepodge.
                      >
                      > Thus, synchronicity from the standpoint of spiritual science
                      concerns
                      > the actual and progressive approach that is occurring right now,
                      since
                      > the advent of the 5th cultural epoch, for a remembrance of our past
                      > lives. You'll find that experiences that come under the banner of
                      > Jungian synchronicity concern increasing and extended events
                      wherein
                      > the sense of being here before is quite pronounced. I myself had
                      an
                      > extended experience of this so-called "deja vu" back in the third
                      grade
                      > when my school class went on a field trip to a railway station that
                      had
                      > been maintained just as it was at the turn of the 20th century.
                      And I
                      > remember being transfixed for the entire time we were there,
                      feeling
                      > the sense that I had experienced this very environment before. It
                      was
                      > very odd, yet quite a satisfying feeling as well.
                      >
                      > And what is important about the phenomena of synchronicity concerns
                      the
                      > need to make contact with our past lives, as it represents the very
                      > substance of what will someday yield the fifth soul development;
                      the
                      > anandamayakosha, or bliss sheath, which will serve to convey our
                      > immortality to ourselves as a certainty.
                      >
                      > Steve
                      >
                    • holderlin66
                      carol wrote: I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact a `predominance of let s say the gnome elemental being within various individuals
                      Message 10 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
                        carol wrote:

                        "I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact
                        a `predominance' of let's say the gnome elemental being within
                        various individuals or is it an external expression of the soul's
                        subconscious encounter" encounters....

                        Bradford comments;

                        Tatoo's are fads. But the attraction to being considered 'special'
                        because you have a groovy tattoo is based mostly on the serious
                        melancholic temperament. However because of the nature of
                        faddishness, it is 'cool' to have body this and body that which is
                        meaningless to the soul content. The soul content that these
                        abstract soul scavengers think is cool is merely a fad like high
                        school girls wearing very short navel exposed tee-shirts. I'm a
                        teacher for heaven's sake, this is all unessential soul trivia. Just
                        like rap, and baggy shorts and dressin like some punk gangsta. It
                        means literally ' 0 '. None of these fads have secured any type of
                        soul perception.

                        The human soul when it comes into incarnation brings with it a
                        suitcase full of fire, air, water, earth, personality features and
                        traits that are true elemental servants. These eventually become
                        modified well shaped plastic or mobile features of the animated
                        personality. Once again please note, these beings are part of what
                        we carry within our I AM and karmic package when we incarnate. These
                        beings assist us and become integrated into our personality make-up
                        until what we see as the type of personality, with their four
                        traits, no longer reveals to the eye the elemental, yet the
                        elemental is in there.

                        Now gnomish, and Ahrimanic greys and predominating depressive
                        elemental beings that form the melancholic dominating personality
                        trait can be part of the actual ahrimanized and corrupted inner
                        vision of the soul that are felt when there are rumors of alien
                        Abductees. However the outline I am offering is the solid basis of
                        what we carry from the spiritual world into physical incarnation and
                        what Buddha carried and freed up and transformed and what we are
                        assigned to transform. Part of our job is to humanized and free up
                        these elemental servants as Buddha did, when we complete our
                        development as humans. We don't get released from incarnation, from
                        physical matter if have not acknowledged and learned of these four
                        beings and forces in our nature as operative cosmic servants.

                        Sanguine Type:

                        The Sylph and the sylph type lends the personality terms like dumb
                        blonde or shop till you drop joy boys and sunshine girls. Swooping,
                        lightness, fun loving and generally in a sunshine mood, the sylph
                        would tend to lift the human spirit, bring a smile to a sad face and
                        when a little child is in a crying jag, sometimes it is the colorful
                        sylph aspect of hidden temperament that must come out of the child
                        and the child also gets to know, learns to get to know what that
                        laughter triggers and how to understand laughter as a visitation and
                        entrance into the sylph style of behavior that has to do with Air
                        and Light. Air, light and joy as part of the old sylph being that
                        has come with the child from the spiritual world, as part of its
                        etheric foundation and can be used as part of its personality trait
                        has also a downside.

                        Sometimes when this personality trait dominates, we understand that
                        the personality, the human personality is being protected by the
                        sylph and the human being hides within the sylph light because the
                        darkness all around the soul damages the human child and the
                        darkness around that it saw when a child forced it to hide within
                        the Sylph lightness, the unbearable lightness of being. And we can
                        see how this lightness, lack of depth becomes a sort of personality
                        crutch for the child as he/she develops. A place where no hard
                        thoughts harm and people are given pleasure instead of pain to
                        disguise their hurts. A lot of the sylph or sanguine natured adults
                        have arisen due to childhood abuses in one way or another.

                        http://www.wam.umd.edu/~llsp/sylph.jpg

                        holderlin wrote:

                        "What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
                        friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
                        within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
                        exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
                        in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
                        taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
                        our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child should
                        not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
                        friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent ASAP "Heart
                        and Souls".

                        "Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
                        called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
                        people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
                        air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
                        need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
                        and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to understand
                        anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the dots
                        that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
                        Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything."

                        Phlegmatic Type:

                        The water nixie and watery nymph enjoices the juices, the tastes and
                        the good meals of sitting at fine dining. How do the wines taste?
                        What springs and vineyards yield the finest wines? What makes you
                        salivate and gets the Water Nymph/Phlegmatic side of your nature to
                        rise up out of your physical body, your physical stone base and
                        lends you the mood he/she brings forward?

                        Teletubby's are the obnoxious little demon nymphs that have been
                        fostered by a fast food, phat America, false saliviating taste-bud
                        blubber, bouncing, over weight America, from children to their flaky
                        trailer park parents, have been made into numbed, television rotted,
                        staring vegtables, which is to insult the fine work that the water
                        spirits do in vegetables.

                        Who fooled the Nymph? Who has polluted her cosmic tastes, our
                        intimate human cosmic waters, that Thetis, mother of Achilles is
                        famous for? Monsanto and fully failed, misleading and whored taste-
                        buds that have marketed supermarket crap that children must eat as
                        fads, phat, and foul corporate profits to sustain their lies. I can
                        tell you that Sanguine, Choleric and Melancholic natures are more
                        prized in our fast paced society than the phlegmatic, steady, nearly
                        photographic brain of the overweight phlegmatic is.

                        http://snowbarsk.autoklad.com/images/zasimovich/sculpture/5.jpg

                        Choleric type;

                        Now the hot blooded and fiery choleric, can be found in Emergency
                        Rooms and in Medics everywhere. They are not always fiery red-headed
                        carrot tops that always stare at you with 'come on, go ahead, I can
                        take ya' faces. That fire appears in the soft embering glow of
                        Steiner's in depth lectures, fiery Michael forces supercharged his
                        blood, where the warmth in his Iron and Light ignited spirit flares
                        that revealed clarity where there was gathering darkness. His words
                        rang as consecrated light in all directions. Fission, fusion and
                        Iron centered sun spirituality cooked Steiner's rich dishes with a
                        warm, kindled, human blaze.

                        But then again, on the battle front of life, saving lives, from fire
                        men and women to police and swat teams to search and rescue on the
                        high seas, to special forces teams, you hear the choleric
                        shout, 'GO, GO, GO, GO!'. Adrenaline junkies can be found working
                        rush hours in restaurants, on the cooking line in the heat of the
                        battle, where the grills spit fire right in their faces and they
                        spit back. Choleric fire is in all of us, even Tiger Woods breaks
                        from his Zen mode to get really pissed off sometimes.

                        "Some people – and all narcissists – are addicted to excitement, to
                        the adrenaline rush, to the danger inevitably and invariably
                        involved. They are the adrenaline junkies. All narcissists are
                        adrenaline junkies – but not all adrenaline junkies are narcissists.

                        Thus, an adrenaline junkie must have a supply, a feed, which always
                        comes with invented excitement, real or invented drama or emotional
                        drama queens that have choleric forces in their feeling life. We can
                        understand that choleric forces or any of the other temperaments can
                        lodge themselves, not only in the will, but in the feeling, and in
                        the region of mental aggression. On the one hand solid Choleric
                        types are described as closer to the ground, Napoleonic and over
                        confident. In a pinch you know that a Choleric will cover your back,
                        fight to the death and remain in the game though anxiety is
                        everywhere and the odds against you are everywhere a great choleric
                        will be the last face you see before you pass out.

                        When unable to secure "normal" Narcissistic Supply – adulation,
                        recognition, fame, celebrity, notoriety, infamy, affirmation, or
                        mere attention – the adrenaline junkie resorts to "abnormal"
                        attention grabbers. He tries to obtain his drug – the thrills, the
                        good feeling that comes with adrenalin – by behaving recklessly, by
                        succumbing to substance abuse, or by living dangerously.

                        Such narcissists – faced with a chronic state of deficient
                        Narcissistic Supply – become criminals, or race drivers, or
                        gamblers, or soldiers, or investigative journalists. They defy
                        authority. They avoid safety, routine and boredom – no safe sex, no
                        financial prudence, no stable marriage or career. They become
                        peripatetic, change jobs, or lovers, or vocations, or avocations, or
                        residences, or friendships often.

                        But sometimes even these extreme and demonstrative steps are not
                        enough. When confronted with a boring, routine existence – with a
                        chronic and permanent inability to secure Narcissistic Supply and
                        excitement – these people compensate by inventing thrills where
                        there are none."

                        http://phopro.ie/earthspirit/fire_salamander.jpg

                        http://www.matrifocus.com/IMB05/images/fire-salamander-sm.jpg

                        Melancholic type;

                        The Melancholic earth dominated, nihilistic, Columbine depression,
                        Nietzsche fixated, hooded rapper has a sharp wit. Often sees the
                        bitter edges, the flaws, the inconsistencies and certainly
                        gravitates and finds its deepest kindled light out of darkness. You
                        could look at how Rembrandt took the darkness and found in it golden
                        hues...as highly interesting.

                        The compression of darkness and the usual Adam's family values of
                        tatoos, dark flesh piercings, pain, S&M, torture, the daughter in
                        the film "BeetleJuice" dressed in black and seeing dead people bring
                        the soul into connection with the current cultural gesture of
                        XXXXXtreme melancholic and enchained gnomes who must be sentenced,
                        as the roots of trees, and mines are strip mined, and earth is
                        carved up, the gnomes are sucked into a horrificaly depressing
                        computerization of human intellectual forces.

                        The Earth spirit gnome, ruled the biting wit of intellectual forces
                        and now lurking in the mines and dark regions of the soul are
                        Ahriman's horrific hordes. And sucked into the electro magnitic
                        sphere, gnomes are compressed into Internet darkness where humans
                        fail to see the depth and light that is in the intellect, the same
                        as they refuse and fail to see the depths and ROOTS of the universe,
                        the soul and the Spirit as the roots of a great Tree of the I AM,
                        Yggdrassil. Wagner and Tolkien felt the dark tug of the gnome
                        community, wiped out and forced into elemental slave labor within
                        the the electronic, hi-tech communications systems, inventions and
                        military experimentation.

                        Vast bacteria, watery, laser, and hi-tech atomic table forces are
                        being whored, harnassed demonized in labs and forced into elemental
                        labor and etheric torture to bring epidemics, annhilation by fire,
                        radiation, and disrupting earthquakes, tidal waves and many of them
                        now merely human generated for selfless political ends from the far
                        west. Because the human sylph, nymph, salamander and gnome forces in
                        the healing processes of the human being are being trained literally
                        as Tolkien described how the elves became Orcs. But the joke is on
                        humanity. For these beings are literally ripping into the cosmic
                        human model and the safeguards of the human healing systems by labs
                        that the American people are paying for so that the surface
                        intellect can remain in its ahrimanized slumber. This was not the
                        Agel of Light our children came to participate in, but the its
                        horrific opposite and it is U, U who sit there and read these things
                        that have failed to IMAGINE clearly what is going on.

                        This mighty potential and sacrifice of the melancholic gomes, where
                        humans cannot think and they merely become the darkness, become
                        nihilistic, become dangerous in their own stewing darkness, enjoy
                        their selfish dangers, dark drugs and brooding faddishness...shames
                        Hamlet and Hamlet is our own Consciousness Soul. Our Consciousness
                        Soul does have a gesture and certainly the black suited Dr. Steiner
                        and that sort of lecture fad, wouldn't have our usual melancholics
                        and deep thinkers, now parading around in Hawaiian shirts now would
                        they? Well they should play against type and certainly Steiner would
                        not be all tatooed with dark coal tints under his eyes for that
                        vampire effect, if he walked into a room today. But Anthros still
                        see it that way. Anthros hardly would trust an infusion of happy
                        rollicking Michaelites pulling up in their Harley's to give
                        conferences and talks. They have to be conservative, sober and
                        unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings
                        latent in the Anthro, because Anthros just want to gawk and stare at
                        the old b/w photos of Der Doctor, instead of revealing the bubbling
                        life of the new Etheric Worlds. Eh?

                        http://www.jazlink.com/jazlbums/England/HPIM0074.sized.jpg

                        http://www.sculpturebyspirit.com/door.html
                      • Steve Hale
                        ... that ... Yes, Bradford writes alot, just as you write alot. Actually, I don t see much of a difference. Now, I try to write in brief because it serves to
                        Message 11 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
                          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hello Bradford
                          >
                          > OK, I understand what you're saying if only you wouldn't go so far
                          > ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of
                          that
                          > psychological type.

                          Yes, Bradford writes alot, just as you write alot. Actually, I
                          don't see much of a difference. Now, I try to write in brief
                          because it serves to catch the eye, and maybe gets a response, which
                          is what I look for. I said you wrote "hodgepodge" because you were
                          pulling out all stops to write 'new-age' dribble, which some
                          possibly could have found offensive. In fact, I found your initial
                          post offensive and arrogant. And that is why I didn't respond to
                          indications of Steinerian concepts from his "Foundations of
                          Esotericism" lectures from 1905.

                          You are quite right in that Jung and Steiner represent a polarity;
                          just as Kant and Steiner represent a polarity from a philosophical
                          standpoint. This has all been gone over before, on that other
                          little ship called the s.s. minnow. Jung is to psychology what Kant
                          is to philosophy in terms of limits to knowledge and perception.
                          And Rudolf Steiner overcame these bounds for those that seek to
                          overcome such limits in order to go further in terms of knowledge
                          and being.

                          Esotericism and its relationship to modern thought is what interests
                          me. Spiritual science exists in order to extend thinking and
                          knowledge into the causal realm that stands behind external
                          phenomena. But you have to take up the study in earnest, just as
                          you have taken up your study of Jungian principles according to a
                          collective unconsciousness that is quite attractive to people today
                          because it leaves the mysteries and enigmas alone; except to engage
                          in conservative speculation about what things mean in the greater
                          course of events.

                          Thus, synchonicity and its phenomenal representation is a fact that
                          only spiritual science can truly penetrate into its causality as an
                          increasing experience of spiritual necessity. I didn't want to lose
                          that important point.

                          Steve
                        • carol
                          Thanks so much! As for this; They have to be conservative, sober and unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings latent in the Anthro,
                          Message 12 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
                            Thanks so much!

                            As for this;
                            They have to be conservative, sober and
                            unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings
                            latent in the Anthro, because Anthros just want to gawk and stare at
                            the old b/w photos of Der Doctor, instead of revealing the bubbling
                            life of the new Etheric Worlds. Eh?

                            I beleive it's changing with the younger generation's influence but
                            I agree with you, I was puzzled by it a few decades ago when I
                            apprached the 'community'; and also worth mentioning is the setbacks
                            at remaining dependent on group development. You're taliking to a
                            former minor Gothic who lived by Anthroposophy but could never feel
                            safe nor individual creative freedom anywhere near the 'community'.

                            I have the impression that it's changing; the few Anthros that I do
                            know have matured and are past their pretentious and competitive
                            years. Like what occurs within the general population, once you get
                            past a certain age, it's easier to appreciate one another.

                            Carol.




                            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                            <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > carol wrote:
                            >
                            > "I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact
                            > a `predominance' of let's say the gnome elemental being within
                            > various individuals or is it an external expression of the soul's
                            > subconscious encounter" encounters....
                            >
                            > Bradford comments;
                            >
                            > Tatoo's are fads. But the attraction to being considered 'special'
                            > because you have a groovy tattoo is based mostly on the serious
                            > melancholic temperament. However because of the nature of
                            > faddishness, it is 'cool' to have body this and body that which is
                            > meaningless to the soul content. The soul content that these
                            > abstract soul scavengers think is cool is merely a fad like high
                            > school girls wearing very short navel exposed tee-shirts. I'm a
                            > teacher for heaven's sake, this is all unessential soul trivia.
                            Just
                            > like rap, and baggy shorts and dressin like some punk gangsta. It
                            > means literally ' 0 '. None of these fads have secured any type
                            of
                            > soul perception.
                            >
                            > The human soul when it comes into incarnation brings with it a
                            > suitcase full of fire, air, water, earth, personality features and
                            > traits that are true elemental servants. These eventually become
                            > modified well shaped plastic or mobile features of the animated
                            > personality. Once again please note, these beings are part of what
                            > we carry within our I AM and karmic package when we incarnate.
                            These
                            > beings assist us and become integrated into our personality make-
                            up
                            > until what we see as the type of personality, with their four
                            > traits, no longer reveals to the eye the elemental, yet the
                            > elemental is in there.
                            >
                            > Now gnomish, and Ahrimanic greys and predominating depressive
                            > elemental beings that form the melancholic dominating personality
                            > trait can be part of the actual ahrimanized and corrupted inner
                            > vision of the soul that are felt when there are rumors of alien
                            > Abductees. However the outline I am offering is the solid basis of
                            > what we carry from the spiritual world into physical incarnation
                            and
                            > what Buddha carried and freed up and transformed and what we are
                            > assigned to transform. Part of our job is to humanized and free up
                            > these elemental servants as Buddha did, when we complete our
                            > development as humans. We don't get released from incarnation,
                            from
                            > physical matter if have not acknowledged and learned of these four
                            > beings and forces in our nature as operative cosmic servants.
                            >
                            > Sanguine Type:
                            >
                            > The Sylph and the sylph type lends the personality terms like dumb
                            > blonde or shop till you drop joy boys and sunshine girls. Swooping,
                            > lightness, fun loving and generally in a sunshine mood, the sylph
                            > would tend to lift the human spirit, bring a smile to a sad face
                            and
                            > when a little child is in a crying jag, sometimes it is the
                            colorful
                            > sylph aspect of hidden temperament that must come out of the child
                            > and the child also gets to know, learns to get to know what that
                            > laughter triggers and how to understand laughter as a visitation
                            and
                            > entrance into the sylph style of behavior that has to do with Air
                            > and Light. Air, light and joy as part of the old sylph being that
                            > has come with the child from the spiritual world, as part of its
                            > etheric foundation and can be used as part of its personality trait
                            > has also a downside.
                            >
                            > Sometimes when this personality trait dominates, we understand that
                            > the personality, the human personality is being protected by the
                            > sylph and the human being hides within the sylph light because the
                            > darkness all around the soul damages the human child and the
                            > darkness around that it saw when a child forced it to hide within
                            > the Sylph lightness, the unbearable lightness of being. And we can
                            > see how this lightness, lack of depth becomes a sort of personality
                            > crutch for the child as he/she develops. A place where no hard
                            > thoughts harm and people are given pleasure instead of pain to
                            > disguise their hurts. A lot of the sylph or sanguine natured adults
                            > have arisen due to childhood abuses in one way or another.
                            >
                            > http://www.wam.umd.edu/~llsp/sylph.jpg
                            >
                            > holderlin wrote:
                            >
                            > "What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
                            > friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
                            > within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
                            > exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
                            > in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
                            > taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
                            > our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child
                            should
                            > not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
                            > friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent
                            ASAP "Heart
                            > and Souls".
                            >
                            > "Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
                            > called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
                            > people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
                            > air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
                            > need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
                            > and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to
                            understand
                            > anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the
                            dots
                            > that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
                            > Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything."
                            >
                            > Phlegmatic Type:
                            >
                            > The water nixie and watery nymph enjoices the juices, the tastes
                            and
                            > the good meals of sitting at fine dining. How do the wines taste?
                            > What springs and vineyards yield the finest wines? What makes you
                            > salivate and gets the Water Nymph/Phlegmatic side of your nature to
                            > rise up out of your physical body, your physical stone base and
                            > lends you the mood he/she brings forward?
                            >
                            > Teletubby's are the obnoxious little demon nymphs that have been
                            > fostered by a fast food, phat America, false saliviating taste-bud
                            > blubber, bouncing, over weight America, from children to their
                            flaky
                            > trailer park parents, have been made into numbed, television
                            rotted,
                            > staring vegtables, which is to insult the fine work that the water
                            > spirits do in vegetables.
                            >
                            > Who fooled the Nymph? Who has polluted her cosmic tastes, our
                            > intimate human cosmic waters, that Thetis, mother of Achilles is
                            > famous for? Monsanto and fully failed, misleading and whored taste-
                            > buds that have marketed supermarket crap that children must eat as
                            > fads, phat, and foul corporate profits to sustain their lies. I can
                            > tell you that Sanguine, Choleric and Melancholic natures are more
                            > prized in our fast paced society than the phlegmatic, steady,
                            nearly
                            > photographic brain of the overweight phlegmatic is.
                            >
                            > http://snowbarsk.autoklad.com/images/zasimovich/sculpture/5.jpg
                            >
                            > Choleric type;
                            >
                            > Now the hot blooded and fiery choleric, can be found in Emergency
                            > Rooms and in Medics everywhere. They are not always fiery red-
                            headed
                            > carrot tops that always stare at you with 'come on, go ahead, I can
                            > take ya' faces. That fire appears in the soft embering glow of
                            > Steiner's in depth lectures, fiery Michael forces supercharged his
                            > blood, where the warmth in his Iron and Light ignited spirit flares
                            > that revealed clarity where there was gathering darkness. His words
                            > rang as consecrated light in all directions. Fission, fusion and
                            > Iron centered sun spirituality cooked Steiner's rich dishes with a
                            > warm, kindled, human blaze.
                            >
                            > But then again, on the battle front of life, saving lives, from
                            fire
                            > men and women to police and swat teams to search and rescue on the
                            > high seas, to special forces teams, you hear the choleric
                            > shout, 'GO, GO, GO, GO!'. Adrenaline junkies can be found working
                            > rush hours in restaurants, on the cooking line in the heat of the
                            > battle, where the grills spit fire right in their faces and they
                            > spit back. Choleric fire is in all of us, even Tiger Woods breaks
                            > from his Zen mode to get really pissed off sometimes.
                            >
                            > "Some people – and all narcissists – are addicted to excitement, to
                            > the adrenaline rush, to the danger inevitably and invariably
                            > involved. They are the adrenaline junkies. All narcissists are
                            > adrenaline junkies – but not all adrenaline junkies are
                            narcissists.
                            >
                            > Thus, an adrenaline junkie must have a supply, a feed, which always
                            > comes with invented excitement, real or invented drama or emotional
                            > drama queens that have choleric forces in their feeling life. We
                            can
                            > understand that choleric forces or any of the other temperaments
                            can
                            > lodge themselves, not only in the will, but in the feeling, and in
                            > the region of mental aggression. On the one hand solid Choleric
                            > types are described as closer to the ground, Napoleonic and over
                            > confident. In a pinch you know that a Choleric will cover your
                            back,
                            > fight to the death and remain in the game though anxiety is
                            > everywhere and the odds against you are everywhere a great choleric
                            > will be the last face you see before you pass out.
                            >
                            > When unable to secure "normal" Narcissistic Supply – adulation,
                            > recognition, fame, celebrity, notoriety, infamy, affirmation, or
                            > mere attention – the adrenaline junkie resorts to "abnormal"
                            > attention grabbers. He tries to obtain his drug – the thrills, the
                            > good feeling that comes with adrenalin – by behaving recklessly, by
                            > succumbing to substance abuse, or by living dangerously.
                            >
                            > Such narcissists – faced with a chronic state of deficient
                            > Narcissistic Supply – become criminals, or race drivers, or
                            > gamblers, or soldiers, or investigative journalists. They defy
                            > authority. They avoid safety, routine and boredom – no safe sex, no
                            > financial prudence, no stable marriage or career. They become
                            > peripatetic, change jobs, or lovers, or vocations, or avocations,
                            or
                            > residences, or friendships often.
                            >
                            > But sometimes even these extreme and demonstrative steps are not
                            > enough. When confronted with a boring, routine existence – with a
                            > chronic and permanent inability to secure Narcissistic Supply and
                            > excitement – these people compensate by inventing thrills where
                            > there are none."
                            >
                            > http://phopro.ie/earthspirit/fire_salamander.jpg
                            >
                            > http://www.matrifocus.com/IMB05/images/fire-salamander-sm.jpg
                            >
                            > Melancholic type;
                            >
                            > The Melancholic earth dominated, nihilistic, Columbine depression,
                            > Nietzsche fixated, hooded rapper has a sharp wit. Often sees the
                            > bitter edges, the flaws, the inconsistencies and certainly
                            > gravitates and finds its deepest kindled light out of darkness. You
                            > could look at how Rembrandt took the darkness and found in it
                            golden
                            > hues...as highly interesting.
                            >
                            > The compression of darkness and the usual Adam's family values of
                            > tatoos, dark flesh piercings, pain, S&M, torture, the daughter in
                            > the film "BeetleJuice" dressed in black and seeing dead people
                            bring
                            > the soul into connection with the current cultural gesture of
                            > XXXXXtreme melancholic and enchained gnomes who must be sentenced,
                            > as the roots of trees, and mines are strip mined, and earth is
                            > carved up, the gnomes are sucked into a horrificaly depressing
                            > computerization of human intellectual forces.
                            >
                            > The Earth spirit gnome, ruled the biting wit of intellectual forces
                            > and now lurking in the mines and dark regions of the soul are
                            > Ahriman's horrific hordes. And sucked into the electro magnitic
                            > sphere, gnomes are compressed into Internet darkness where humans
                            > fail to see the depth and light that is in the intellect, the same
                            > as they refuse and fail to see the depths and ROOTS of the
                            universe,
                            > the soul and the Spirit as the roots of a great Tree of the I AM,
                            > Yggdrassil. Wagner and Tolkien felt the dark tug of the gnome
                            > community, wiped out and forced into elemental slave labor within
                            > the the electronic, hi-tech communications systems, inventions and
                            > military experimentation.
                            >
                            > Vast bacteria, watery, laser, and hi-tech atomic table forces are
                            > being whored, harnassed demonized in labs and forced into elemental
                            > labor and etheric torture to bring epidemics, annhilation by fire,
                            > radiation, and disrupting earthquakes, tidal waves and many of them
                            > now merely human generated for selfless political ends from the far
                            > west. Because the human sylph, nymph, salamander and gnome forces
                            in
                            > the healing processes of the human being are being trained
                            literally
                            > as Tolkien described how the elves became Orcs. But the joke is on
                            > humanity. For these beings are literally ripping into the cosmic
                            > human model and the safeguards of the human healing systems by labs
                            > that the American people are paying for so that the surface
                            > intellect can remain in its ahrimanized slumber. This was not the
                            > Agel of Light our children came to participate in, but the its
                            > horrific opposite and it is U, U who sit there and read these
                            things
                            > that have failed to IMAGINE clearly what is going on.
                            >
                            > This mighty potential and sacrifice of the melancholic gomes, where
                            > humans cannot think and they merely become the darkness, become
                            > nihilistic, become dangerous in their own stewing darkness, enjoy
                            > their selfish dangers, dark drugs and brooding faddishness...shames
                            > Hamlet and Hamlet is our own Consciousness Soul. Our Consciousness
                            > Soul does have a gesture and certainly the black suited Dr. Steiner
                            > and that sort of lecture fad, wouldn't have our usual melancholics
                            > and deep thinkers, now parading around in Hawaiian shirts now would
                            > they? Well they should play against type and certainly Steiner
                            would
                            > not be all tatooed with dark coal tints under his eyes for that
                            > vampire effect, if he walked into a room today. But Anthros still
                            > see it that way. Anthros hardly would trust an infusion of happy
                            > rollicking Michaelites pulling up in their Harley's to give
                            > conferences and talks. They have to be conservative, sober and
                            > unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings
                            > latent in the Anthro, because Anthros just want to gawk and stare
                            at
                            > the old b/w photos of Der Doctor, instead of revealing the bubbling
                            > life of the new Etheric Worlds. Eh?
                            >
                            > http://www.jazlink.com/jazlbums/England/HPIM0074.sized.jpg
                            >
                            > http://www.sculpturebyspirit.com/door.html
                            >
                          • opetha
                            Hello, Disfigurations in the Orient is the opposite of Transformations in the Occident , where would we be without ambiguity? We must face our devil
                            Message 13 of 30 , Oct 5, 2006
                              Hello,

                              "Disfigurations in the Orient" is the opposite of "Transformations in
                              the Occident", where would we be without ambiguity? We must face our
                              devil sometime.

                              Tarot cards--that's why it appears "typical new-age", maybe a typical
                              filter is the case. But what I say is 100% eternal law of the dhamma,
                              so far as the unconscious as mulaprakriti is unchanging ideation from
                              which any spiritual world, in any epoch, is built.

                              Bless.

                              Godot.












                              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Hello Bradford
                              > >
                              > > OK, I understand what you're saying if only you wouldn't go so
                              far
                              > > ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of
                              > that
                              > > psychological type.
                              >
                              > Yes, Bradford writes alot, just as you write alot. Actually, I
                              > don't see much of a difference. Now, I try to write in brief
                              > because it serves to catch the eye, and maybe gets a response,
                              which
                              > is what I look for. I said you wrote "hodgepodge" because you
                              were
                              > pulling out all stops to write 'new-age' dribble, which some
                              > possibly could have found offensive. In fact, I found your initial
                              > post offensive and arrogant. And that is why I didn't respond to
                              > indications of Steinerian concepts from his "Foundations of
                              > Esotericism" lectures from 1905.
                              >
                              > You are quite right in that Jung and Steiner represent a polarity;
                              > just as Kant and Steiner represent a polarity from a philosophical
                              > standpoint. This has all been gone over before, on that other
                              > little ship called the s.s. minnow. Jung is to psychology what
                              Kant
                              > is to philosophy in terms of limits to knowledge and perception.
                              > And Rudolf Steiner overcame these bounds for those that seek to
                              > overcome such limits in order to go further in terms of knowledge
                              > and being.
                              >
                              > Esotericism and its relationship to modern thought is what
                              interests
                              > me. Spiritual science exists in order to extend thinking and
                              > knowledge into the causal realm that stands behind external
                              > phenomena. But you have to take up the study in earnest, just as
                              > you have taken up your study of Jungian principles according to a
                              > collective unconsciousness that is quite attractive to people today
                              > because it leaves the mysteries and enigmas alone; except to engage
                              > in conservative speculation about what things mean in the greater
                              > course of events.
                              >
                              > Thus, synchonicity and its phenomenal representation is a fact that
                              > only spiritual science can truly penetrate into its causality as an
                              > increasing experience of spiritual necessity. I didn't want to
                              lose
                              > that important point.
                              >
                              > Steve
                              >
                            • holderlin66
                              Godot wrote: A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use him as an
                              Message 14 of 30 , Oct 5, 2006
                                Godot wrote:

                                "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school
                                and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use
                                him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                                until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound your
                                science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is this
                                not so?"

                                "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                                forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                                men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                Things."

                                Bradford comments;

                                Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                                Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal. But we
                                can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical point
                                means better than the current Jungians.

                                John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age 33.
                                Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the world
                                over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the Declaration
                                of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing Religious
                                Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.

                                María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                                8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.

                                1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES

                                Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0

                                (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)

                                In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space of
                                just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become one of
                                the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with three
                                friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                labeled "Transcendentalism."

                                The Human Life by George O'Neil

                                " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of Biography.
                                The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of seven-
                                year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the archetype
                                of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead particularly
                                after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly. The
                                book goes into detail about the need to understand the importance of
                                a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                karmic companions, moon nodes etc.

                                In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The chart
                                has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea, and
                                karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived and I
                                personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                                myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.

                                George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work and
                                insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain even
                                through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a Mercury
                                Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."

                                Bradford concludes;

                                Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously we
                                have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures with
                                first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and the
                                change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart; the
                                astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                                human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33 years
                                of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to 1933
                                when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is Ahriman
                                who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.

                                What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is exposed to
                                all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It recrossed
                                his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to what we
                                have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful elemental
                                intensity and GUILT.

                                But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces that
                                truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I AM,
                                human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away from
                                his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age, when
                                Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of the
                                two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math and
                                interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world and
                                Man.

                                But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as possible
                                the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate
                                and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point.
                                Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the Christ
                                take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                                thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away, looking
                                down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully developed
                                etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                                function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and as
                                fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra to
                                hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts the
                                amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that Zarathustra
                                watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest prepared
                                human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this loving,
                                living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun Elohim
                                Christ.

                                It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that Zarathustra
                                had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a clarified
                                astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom ever
                                condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a gift to
                                something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine all
                                the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched althought
                                Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                mysteries to us.

                                Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                                thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM live
                                fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33. Take
                                Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region of
                                the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this I
                                AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt the
                                karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world over
                                and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds, Goethe,
                                Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the Christ
                                event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic family
                                with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic family!!
                                Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                                Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson with
                                his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner titles
                                his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative of
                                Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?

                                Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the science
                                of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at age 30
                                to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting confrontation
                                with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say we
                                could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list of
                                insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding places
                                in the bushes.

                                This is all that you need to remember about the difference between
                                Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                              • opetha
                                Good day, THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH ! Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn t matter in the end, we all have our own opinions and beliefs.
                                Message 15 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
                                  Good day,

                                  THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !

                                  Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end, we
                                  all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I would
                                  rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the 33
                                  and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed horoscope
                                  they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33, 34,
                                  or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.

                                  Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                                  saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto when
                                  he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect lasts a
                                  long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This system
                                  has
                                  never known to fail, and like your interpretations of synchronicity
                                  , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by

                                  (a) energy
                                  or (b) causality

                                  Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was not
                                  a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of the
                                  SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                                  tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the jambu
                                  tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                                  energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                                  quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the centre
                                  was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                                  types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                                  have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).

                                  Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying that
                                  the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth by
                                  a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from the
                                  bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                                  sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.

                                  "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                                  -Pythagoras

                                  Godot.
















                                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66" <holderlin66@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Godot wrote:
                                  >
                                  > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school
                                  > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use
                                  > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                  > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                  > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                                  > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                  > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound your
                                  > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is this
                                  > not so?"
                                  >
                                  > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                  > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                                  > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                                  > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                  > Things."
                                  >
                                  > Bradford comments;
                                  >
                                  > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                                  > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal. But
                                  we
                                  > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                  point
                                  > means better than the current Jungians.
                                  >
                                  > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age 33.
                                  > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the world
                                  > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the Declaration
                                  > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing Religious
                                  > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                  >
                                  > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                                  > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                  >
                                  > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                  >
                                  > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                  >
                                  > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                  >
                                  > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space of
                                  > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become one
                                  of
                                  > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                  > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                  three
                                  > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                  > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                  > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                  >
                                  > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                  >
                                  > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                  > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of Biography.
                                  > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                  seven-
                                  > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the archetype
                                  > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                  particularly
                                  > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly. The
                                  > book goes into detail about the need to understand the importance
                                  of
                                  > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                  > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                  >
                                  > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The chart
                                  > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea, and
                                  > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived and I
                                  > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                                  > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                  > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                  >
                                  > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work and
                                  > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain even
                                  > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a Mercury
                                  > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."
                                  >
                                  > Bradford concludes;
                                  >
                                  > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously we
                                  > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                  with
                                  > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and the
                                  > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart; the
                                  > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                  > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                  > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                                  > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33 years
                                  > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                  1933
                                  > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is Ahriman
                                  > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                  >
                                  > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is exposed
                                  to
                                  > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                  recrossed
                                  > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to what
                                  we
                                  > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful elemental
                                  > intensity and GUILT.
                                  >
                                  > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                  > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                  > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces that
                                  > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I AM,
                                  > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away from
                                  > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age, when
                                  > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                  > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of the
                                  > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                  > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math
                                  and
                                  > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world and
                                  > Man.
                                  >
                                  > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as possible
                                  > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                  > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                  > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate
                                  > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point.
                                  > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the Christ
                                  > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                                  > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away, looking
                                  > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully developed
                                  > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                                  > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and as
                                  > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra to
                                  > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts
                                  the
                                  > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that Zarathustra
                                  > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest prepared
                                  > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this loving,
                                  > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun Elohim
                                  > Christ.
                                  >
                                  > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that Zarathustra
                                  > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a clarified
                                  > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom ever
                                  > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                  > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a gift
                                  to
                                  > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine
                                  all
                                  > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                  > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched althought
                                  > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                  > mysteries to us.
                                  >
                                  > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                                  > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM live
                                  > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33. Take
                                  > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region of
                                  > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this I
                                  > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt the
                                  > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world over
                                  > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds, Goethe,
                                  > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the Christ
                                  > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                  family
                                  > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                  family!!
                                  > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                  > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                  > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                                  > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                  with
                                  > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                  > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner titles
                                  > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative of
                                  > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                  >
                                  > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                  science
                                  > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at age
                                  30
                                  > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting confrontation
                                  > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                  > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                  > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say we
                                  > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list of
                                  > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding places
                                  > in the bushes.
                                  >
                                  > This is all that you need to remember about the difference between
                                  > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                  >
                                • carol
                                  Dear Godot, Perhaps next time around you ll possess the great courage necessary to take on the `big picture . Please take note that your inner urge to
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
                                    Dear Godot,

                                    Perhaps next time around you'll possess the great courage necessary
                                    to take on the `big picture'. Please take note that your inner urge
                                    to directly wrestling with Anthroposophy has now
                                    figuratively `sprinkled your soul with a light drizzle'.

                                    May the heavens ray down upon you... in sympathy, Carol

                                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Good day,
                                    >
                                    > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !
                                    >
                                    > Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end,
                                    we
                                    > all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I
                                    would
                                    > rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the
                                    33
                                    > and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed
                                    horoscope
                                    > they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33,
                                    34,
                                    > or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.
                                    >
                                    > Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                                    > saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto
                                    when
                                    > he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect
                                    lasts a
                                    > long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This
                                    system
                                    > has
                                    > never known to fail, and like your interpretations of synchronicity
                                    > , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by
                                    >
                                    > (a) energy
                                    > or (b) causality
                                    >
                                    > Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was
                                    not
                                    > a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of
                                    the
                                    > SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                                    > tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the
                                    jambu
                                    > tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                                    > energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                                    > quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the
                                    centre
                                    > was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                                    > types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                                    > have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).
                                    >
                                    > Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying
                                    that
                                    > the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth
                                    by
                                    > a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from
                                    the
                                    > bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                                    > sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.
                                    >
                                    > "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                                    > -Pythagoras
                                    >
                                    > Godot.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66" <holderlin66@>
                                    > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Godot wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish
                                    school
                                    > > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will
                                    use
                                    > > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                    > > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                    > > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                                    > > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                    > > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound
                                    your
                                    > > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                                    this
                                    > > not so?"
                                    > >
                                    > > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                    > > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                                    > > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                                    > > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                    > > Things."
                                    > >
                                    > > Bradford comments;
                                    > >
                                    > > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                                    > > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal.
                                    But
                                    > we
                                    > > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                    > point
                                    > > means better than the current Jungians.
                                    > >
                                    > > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age
                                    33.
                                    > > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the
                                    world
                                    > > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                                    Declaration
                                    > > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing
                                    Religious
                                    > > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                    > >
                                    > > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                                    > > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                    > >
                                    > > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                    > >
                                    > > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                    > >
                                    > > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                    > >
                                    > > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space
                                    of
                                    > > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become
                                    one
                                    > of
                                    > > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                    > > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                    > three
                                    > > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                    > > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                    > > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                    > >
                                    > > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                    > >
                                    > > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                    > > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of
                                    Biography.
                                    > > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                    > seven-
                                    > > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the
                                    archetype
                                    > > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                    > particularly
                                    > > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                                    The
                                    > > book goes into detail about the need to understand the
                                    importance
                                    > of
                                    > > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                    > > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                    > >
                                    > > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                                    chart
                                    > > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea,
                                    and
                                    > > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived
                                    and I
                                    > > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                                    > > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                    > > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                    > >
                                    > > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work
                                    and
                                    > > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain
                                    even
                                    > > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a
                                    Mercury
                                    > > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."
                                    > >
                                    > > Bradford concludes;
                                    > >
                                    > > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously
                                    we
                                    > > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                    > with
                                    > > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and
                                    the
                                    > > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart;
                                    the
                                    > > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                    > > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                    > > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                                    > > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33
                                    years
                                    > > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                    > 1933
                                    > > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                                    Ahriman
                                    > > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                    > >
                                    > > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is
                                    exposed
                                    > to
                                    > > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                    > recrossed
                                    > > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to
                                    what
                                    > we
                                    > > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                                    elemental
                                    > > intensity and GUILT.
                                    > >
                                    > > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                    > > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                    > > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces
                                    that
                                    > > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I
                                    AM,
                                    > > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away
                                    from
                                    > > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                                    when
                                    > > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                    > > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of
                                    the
                                    > > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                    > > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math
                                    > and
                                    > > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world
                                    and
                                    > > Man.
                                    > >
                                    > > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as
                                    possible
                                    > > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                    > > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                    > > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                                    incubate
                                    > > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that
                                    point.
                                    > > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                                    Christ
                                    > > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                                    > > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away,
                                    looking
                                    > > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                                    developed
                                    > > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                                    > > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and
                                    as
                                    > > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra
                                    to
                                    > > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts
                                    > the
                                    > > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                                    Zarathustra
                                    > > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest
                                    prepared
                                    > > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this
                                    loving,
                                    > > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                                    Elohim
                                    > > Christ.
                                    > >
                                    > > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                                    Zarathustra
                                    > > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                                    clarified
                                    > > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom
                                    ever
                                    > > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                    > > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a
                                    gift
                                    > to
                                    > > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine
                                    > all
                                    > > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                    > > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched
                                    althought
                                    > > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                    > > mysteries to us.
                                    > >
                                    > > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                                    > > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                                    live
                                    > > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                                    Take
                                    > > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region
                                    of
                                    > > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this
                                    I
                                    > > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                                    the
                                    > > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world
                                    over
                                    > > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds,
                                    Goethe,
                                    > > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                                    Christ
                                    > > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                    > family
                                    > > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                    > family!!
                                    > > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                    > > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                    > > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                                    > > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                    > with
                                    > > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                    > > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                                    titles
                                    > > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative
                                    of
                                    > > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                    > >
                                    > > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                    > science
                                    > > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at
                                    age
                                    > 30
                                    > > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting
                                    confrontation
                                    > > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                    > > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                    > > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say
                                    we
                                    > > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list
                                    of
                                    > > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                                    places
                                    > > in the bushes.
                                    > >
                                    > > This is all that you need to remember about the difference
                                    between
                                    > > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • opetha
                                    Dear Godot, Perhaps next time around you ll possess the great courage necessary to take on the `big picture . Please take note that your inner urge to
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
                                      "Dear Godot,

                                      Perhaps next time around you'll possess the great courage necessary
                                      to take on the `big picture'. Please take note that your inner urge
                                      to directly wrestling with Anthroposophy has now
                                      figuratively `sprinkled your soul with a light drizzle'. >
                                      May the heavens ray down upon you... in sympathy, Carol"

                                      The jehovah's witnesses are saying the same thing to you. This is an
                                      anthroposophy site , if it was a Jung site you'd get the same
                                      sectarian onanism from them. Human beings are not free of poison,
                                      carol, this includes you.

                                      The 'big picture' includes the collective unconscious which you think
                                      is against anthroposophy. No spirit can operate without a Karmic
                                      symbol in the unconscious, all spirits, phantom worlds and "eigth
                                      spheres" all have a reflection in the unconscious, they cannot be
                                      created without ideation.

                                      A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless
                                      that person's unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows
                                      NOTHING about the unconscious and thinks that he is "divining"
                                      himself psychically that he can kill
                                      or heal someone. If he does heal, the spirit thinks that he did it by
                                      his own effort. But the unconscious symbols, or archetypes, as we can
                                      see by progression astrology is shown by that dead or healed
                                      persons's horoscope; the aspects produced are synchronized to the
                                      causel éffect. So, you see, these two worlds of unconscious and
                                      conscious spirit are paralell. But because you have week intuition
                                      you cannot see this, so you make up a lot of abstract rules to
                                      entertain consciousness.
                                      Totality--"christ etheric"---is only acheived through union of the
                                      opposites. It is the resting of all spirit.

                                      You have no balance and are threatened by this testament.

                                      DE FABIS ABSTINUTO.
                                      Godot











                                      > >
                                      > > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !
                                      > >
                                      > > Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end,
                                      > we
                                      > > all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I
                                      > would
                                      > > rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the
                                      > 33
                                      > > and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed
                                      > horoscope
                                      > > they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33,
                                      > 34,
                                      > > or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.
                                      > >
                                      > > Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                                      > > saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto
                                      > when
                                      > > he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect
                                      > lasts a
                                      > > long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This
                                      > system
                                      > > has
                                      > > never known to fail, and like your interpretations of
                                      synchronicity
                                      > > , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by
                                      > >
                                      > > (a) energy
                                      > > or (b) causality
                                      > >
                                      > > Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was
                                      > not
                                      > > a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of
                                      > the
                                      > > SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                                      > > tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the
                                      > jambu
                                      > > tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                                      > > energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                                      > > quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the
                                      > centre
                                      > > was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                                      > > types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                                      > > have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).
                                      > >
                                      > > Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying
                                      > that
                                      > > the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth
                                      > by
                                      > > a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from
                                      > the
                                      > > bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                                      > > sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.
                                      > >
                                      > > "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                                      > > -Pythagoras
                                      > >
                                      > > Godot.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                      <holderlin66@>
                                      > > wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Godot wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish
                                      > school
                                      > > > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will
                                      > use
                                      > > > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                      > > > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                      > > > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the
                                      stars
                                      > > > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                      > > > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound
                                      > your
                                      > > > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                                      > this
                                      > > > not so?"
                                      > > >
                                      > > > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                      > > > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of
                                      the
                                      > > > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age
                                      for
                                      > > > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                      > > > Things."
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Bradford comments;
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human
                                      being.
                                      > > > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal.
                                      > But
                                      > > we
                                      > > > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                      > > point
                                      > > > means better than the current Jungians.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age
                                      > 33.
                                      > > > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the
                                      > world
                                      > > > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                                      > Declaration
                                      > > > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing
                                      > Religious
                                      > > > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33,
                                      at
                                      > > > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                      > > >
                                      > > > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                      > > >
                                      > > > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space
                                      > of
                                      > > > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become
                                      > one
                                      > > of
                                      > > > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                      > > > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                      > > three
                                      > > > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                      > > > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                      > > > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                      > > >
                                      > > > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                      > > >
                                      > > > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                      > > > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of
                                      > Biography.
                                      > > > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                      > > seven-
                                      > > > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the
                                      > archetype
                                      > > > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                      > > particularly
                                      > > > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                                      > The
                                      > > > book goes into detail about the need to understand the
                                      > importance
                                      > > of
                                      > > > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                      > > > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                                      > chart
                                      > > > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea,
                                      > and
                                      > > > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived
                                      > and I
                                      > > > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I
                                      find
                                      > > > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                      > > > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work
                                      > and
                                      > > > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain
                                      > even
                                      > > > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a
                                      > Mercury
                                      > > > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real
                                      gem."
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Bradford concludes;
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science.
                                      Previously
                                      > we
                                      > > > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                      > > with
                                      > > > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and
                                      > the
                                      > > > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart;
                                      > the
                                      > > > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                      > > > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                      > > > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find
                                      the
                                      > > > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33
                                      > years
                                      > > > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                      > > 1933
                                      > > > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                                      > Ahriman
                                      > > > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is
                                      > exposed
                                      > > to
                                      > > > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                      > > recrossed
                                      > > > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to
                                      > what
                                      > > we
                                      > > > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                                      > elemental
                                      > > > intensity and GUILT.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                      > > > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                      > > > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces
                                      > that
                                      > > > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I
                                      > AM,
                                      > > > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away
                                      > from
                                      > > > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                                      > when
                                      > > > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                      > > > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of
                                      > the
                                      > > > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                      > > > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic
                                      math
                                      > > and
                                      > > > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world
                                      > and
                                      > > > Man.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as
                                      > possible
                                      > > > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                      > > > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                      > > > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                                      > incubate
                                      > > > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that
                                      > point.
                                      > > > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                                      > Christ
                                      > > > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language,
                                      brain,
                                      > > > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away,
                                      > looking
                                      > > > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                                      > developed
                                      > > > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot,
                                      fully
                                      > > > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and
                                      > as
                                      > > > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra
                                      > to
                                      > > > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's
                                      depicts
                                      > > the
                                      > > > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                                      > Zarathustra
                                      > > > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest
                                      > prepared
                                      > > > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this
                                      > loving,
                                      > > > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                                      > Elohim
                                      > > > Christ.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                                      > Zarathustra
                                      > > > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                                      > clarified
                                      > > > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom
                                      > ever
                                      > > > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                      > > > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a
                                      > gift
                                      > > to
                                      > > > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't
                                      examine
                                      > > all
                                      > > > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                      > > > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched
                                      > althought
                                      > > > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                      > > > mysteries to us.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting
                                      each
                                      > > > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                                      > live
                                      > > > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                                      > Take
                                      > > > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region
                                      > of
                                      > > > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought
                                      this
                                      > I
                                      > > > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                                      > the
                                      > > > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world
                                      > over
                                      > > > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds,
                                      > Goethe,
                                      > > > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                                      > Christ
                                      > > > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                      > > family
                                      > > > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                      > > family!!
                                      > > > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                      > > > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                      > > > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger
                                      or
                                      > > > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                      > > with
                                      > > > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                      > > > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                                      > titles
                                      > > > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative
                                      > of
                                      > > > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                      > > science
                                      > > > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at
                                      > age
                                      > > 30
                                      > > > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting
                                      > confrontation
                                      > > > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                      > > > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                      > > > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd
                                      say
                                      > we
                                      > > > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list
                                      > of
                                      > > > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                                      > places
                                      > > > in the bushes.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > This is all that you need to remember about the difference
                                      > between
                                      > > > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • holderlin66
                                      opetha wrote: A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless that person s unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows NOTHING
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
                                        opetha wrote:

                                        "A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless
                                        that person's unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows
                                        NOTHING about the unconscious and thinks that he is "divining"
                                        himself psychically that he can kill
                                        or heal someone. If he does heal, the spirit thinks that he did it by
                                        his own effort. But the unconscious symbols, or archetypes, as we can
                                        see by progression astrology is shown by that dead or healed
                                        persons's horoscope; the aspects produced are synchronized to the
                                        causel éffect. So, you see, these two worlds of unconscious and
                                        conscious spirit are paralell."

                                        Bradford comments;

                                        Truly, truly, not that it matters, by Jungianism is a very good
                                        basis for beginners to grasp Anthroposophy. Most Anthro's have not
                                        progressed further than vague Jungianism, but Jungianism is a good
                                        enough approach to start off with.

                                        But to the issue, Godot, the issue of healing. Now there is again an
                                        area of actual healing, as in the so called miracles, and right
                                        away, forget about whatever you have assumed about the miracles in
                                        the past. Healing, certainly healers and healing is a wonderful
                                        theory and vaguely we are all growing into healers. But Healers that
                                        are given the task of producing from our core, an entirely new
                                        nature with adjustments and elemental world healings, and karmic
                                        balancers.

                                        But the theory of healers has to have itself rooted in something.
                                        That something is known as the progressive science miracles of
                                        Christ. That is that Anthro Science and Resurrection Science can
                                        walk you through the slow unfolding and serious deepening, step by
                                        step as the Christ penetrated...the Jesus model built by Zarathustra.

                                        Step by step, the vast Being of the Christ, using the developing
                                        cognition of the Christ and Zarathustra's highly developed faculties
                                        and Buddha's immense cosmic compassion, started out with what,
                                        changing water into wine. But from each step by step, stage by stage
                                        deepening of what Christ is, the I AM of all I AM's, as our I AM and
                                        higher being penetrates into our being, firstly Christ taps the deep
                                        forces of wine, blood and the elemental forces of the EArth. Christ
                                        changes water into wine. Whole new elemental forces in the nymphs
                                        and undines spring to life in clay jars.

                                        Now what happens stage by stage are not miracles but the unfolding
                                        in depth capacity and science of the forces of Karma cognition,
                                        healing blind people, or blood issues, or the Youth of Nain, as a
                                        world historical karmic adjustment that was left over from THE SON
                                        OF THE WIDOW an Isis and Egyptian karmic problem that left a youth
                                        in a coma, was read and adjusted by Christ.

                                        We have brought on this list, on this list only recently, revealing
                                        these miracles under the heading of miracles and we walked it
                                        through as best we could. That is that Christ was the active Star
                                        Genius, the active adjustor. Christ on Earth was an active vortex of
                                        living Star force that usually exists outside of humanity. Christ
                                        brought the living Stars for a short time, exactly on Earth.
                                        Steiner, better than Bill Gates, knew the codes and developments of
                                        I AM's and Christ could and had the power in the vortex that was
                                        established around him.... a vast vortex of forces that included the
                                        TWELVE, Christ was the walking reality of the immediate stars. These
                                        powers are all latent in the puny i am or id and how we raise
                                        ourselves to our higher beings, and eventually bring the Not I but
                                        Christ I AM into us, is left for our unfolding future.

                                        But my point is not that they were healing and miracles and not that
                                        human beings, Jungians and biodynamics farmers, Waldorf educators,
                                        and Anthro trained students aren't healers, we all are. But my point
                                        was that an entirely new nature ---- This should be grasped and I
                                        can't blame anyone, including Anthros for not yet grasping this, but
                                        the fact is that a New Nature force rose up and will rise up not
                                        from miracles but from the penetrating and clarified science of the
                                        I AM going deeper and deeper into the I AM, down to the core of
                                        matter. And I can tell you that penetrating the core of matter as
                                        Love and Light is part of the Heisenberg problem. A problem that
                                        Heisenberg and Steiner agreed upon. As the I AM is penetrated and we
                                        become more and more conscious, the exactness of the science, the
                                        etheric forces needed, the star forces needed, all become clear to
                                        the force that had penetrated the Jesus model, once the Cosmic I AM
                                        took root.

                                        The science of healing, certainly has a beginning with a Jungian
                                        frame of reference and Anthroposophy picks up that Jungian frame of
                                        reference and more and more consolidates what is termed,
                                        UNCONSCIOUS, as nothing that cannot be explored by the Spiritual
                                        Scientist. Naturally the idea that Steiner was unconscious of the
                                        nature forces or star forces and medical forces as he plunged into
                                        his "Agricultural Course" is absurd. Naturally to imagine that the
                                        hit or miss version of Edgar Casey was on par with the Conscious
                                        Initiate Science of Steiner, is sweet. But to penetrate the
                                        properties of the stars, and direct them down to the soil, or
                                        through the organism, or into the model of higher and general
                                        education, means that the unconscious model that Jungians declare as
                                        part of the unexplored area of their being....that may be true for
                                        us, but it was less and less true for both Zarathustra, Buddha and
                                        Steiner. Mapping the Unconscious with clarity is also not getting
                                        trapped in the idea of vague nonsense.

                                        Myths, archetypes, you give it to me, and I'll spit it right back in
                                        the direction that reveals, not the unconscious but the maps of the
                                        unconscious. When we say maps, we are talking Dante and his nine
                                        layers deep and nine layers upwards. When we are talking maps, we
                                        are talking about the same Nine layers of the Norse Yggdrasill. When
                                        we are talking maps of the unconscious we are talking about the same
                                        Nine layers that were known to the Egyptians....if you want me to
                                        prove it... suffice it to say, KA...etc... etc... What you insist on
                                        the unconscious was the Venus steps of the Aztec and Mayan altars,
                                        where the nine months of gestation and the snake shadow that runs
                                        down the steps and even the number of steps up the Venus altar where
                                        human sacrifice was made, were the exact number of steps as the
                                        number of days it took Venus....And then the Aztec's went down into
                                        the nine worlds of the underworld. These maps were not meant to be
                                        relegated as unconscious.

                                        Now Spiritual Science does not stand on the unconscious, it stands
                                        for the progressive unfolding of deeper and deeper layers of
                                        conscious penetration. That means that Nine Hierarchies, say, and
                                        Nine layers of the inner Earth and Nine fields of soul development
                                        in the human being are all part of the accurate, science of the maps
                                        of human cognition and the worlds around us.

                                        The fact that the stars play a part has also been brought up here as
                                        the 12 pairs of Cranial nerves that are the literal, pin-prick and
                                        compass that forms the human brain, and gives each individual a time
                                        stamp and a specific compass point, a karmic talent and capcity POV
                                        that is unique to the birth of each human being. This brain sheath
                                        and skull as well as the Dodecahedron has been generously explored
                                        here. So indeed Star movements and how the TWELVE operated around
                                        the Christ as a stabalizing field for the immense Elohim, Christ, in
                                        a warm field of Olive Trees and in the super warmed blood of the
                                        Hebrew people with their specific Iron forces... All this was to
                                        root the immense Sun Being and anchor it into Jesus.

                                        Then, to top it all off, the entire cellular structure glows with
                                        such a powerful light at the Transfiguration that the entire
                                        mysteries of matter, down to the very core of the bones, is infused
                                        and penetrated with a cosmic light. I can only thank-you profusely
                                        for offering your wonderful Jungian curiosity to the stable
                                        foundations of Spiritual Science. Because Anthro Jungians, which
                                        there are many of us, also need to get with the program that this is
                                        not the vague unconscious we are dealing with.
                                      • organicethics@sympatico.ca
                                        Interesting, I think clarification is being called upon. Here’s one small example: The big picture includes the collective unconscious (the Akasha) which
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
                                          Interesting, I think clarification is being called upon. Here’s one small example:

                                          The 'big picture' includes the collective unconscious (the Akasha) which you think
                                          is against anthroposophy (your reflection). No spirit (individual soul) can operate without a Karmic symbol (imprint/spiritual configuration animated by spiritual beings) in the unconscious, all spirits, phantom worlds and "eigth spheres" all have a reflection (living reality in the occult world) in the unconscious, they cannot be created without ideation (the participation of the thinking soul/spirit).

                                          Godot, Theosophy gets you deep with the typical disorganization. Anthroposophy offers the opportunity for Occult experience with the safeguards against getting ‘muddled’.

                                          Godot, be my guest, go do your thing, it’s your destiny, it’s you who ultimately answers for your actions and choices.

                                          But rest assured, that if you send ME psychic ‘threats’, you’ll get sunken…!

                                          Have a nice evening Godot, and be nice to people, Carol.

                                          >
                                          > From: "opetha" <opetha@...>
                                          > Date: 2006/10/06 Fri PM 02:41:21 EST
                                          > To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: Amoeba contra Manu
                                          >
                                          > "Dear Godot,
                                          >
                                          > Perhaps next time around you'll possess the great courage necessary
                                          > to take on the `big picture'. Please take note that your inner urge
                                          > to directly wrestling with Anthroposophy has now
                                          > figuratively `sprinkled your soul with a light drizzle'. >
                                          > May the heavens ray down upon you... in sympathy, Carol"
                                          >
                                          > The jehovah's witnesses are saying the same thing to you. This is an
                                          > anthroposophy site , if it was a Jung site you'd get the same
                                          > sectarian onanism from them. Human beings are not free of poison,
                                          > carol, this includes you.
                                          >
                                          > The 'big picture' includes the collective unconscious which you think
                                          > is against anthroposophy. No spirit can operate without a Karmic
                                          > symbol in the unconscious, all spirits, phantom worlds and "eigth
                                          > spheres" all have a reflection in the unconscious, they cannot be
                                          > created without ideation.
                                          >
                                          > A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless
                                          > that person's unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows
                                          > NOTHING about the unconscious and thinks that he is "divining"
                                          > himself psychically that he can kill
                                          > or heal someone. If he does heal, the spirit thinks that he did it by
                                          > his own effort. But the unconscious symbols, or archetypes, as we can
                                          > see by progression astrology is shown by that dead or healed
                                          > persons's horoscope; the aspects produced are synchronized to the
                                          > causel éffect. So, you see, these two worlds of unconscious and
                                          > conscious spirit are paralell. But because you have week intuition
                                          > you cannot see this, so you make up a lot of abstract rules to
                                          > entertain consciousness.
                                          > Totality--"christ etheric"---is only acheived through union of the
                                          > opposites. It is the resting of all spirit.
                                          >
                                          > You have no balance and are threatened by this testament.
                                          >
                                          > DE FABIS ABSTINUTO.
                                          > Godot
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end,
                                          > > we
                                          > > > all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I
                                          > > would
                                          > > > rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the
                                          > > 33
                                          > > > and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed
                                          > > horoscope
                                          > > > they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33,
                                          > > 34,
                                          > > > or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                                          > > > saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto
                                          > > when
                                          > > > he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect
                                          > > lasts a
                                          > > > long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This
                                          > > system
                                          > > > has
                                          > > > never known to fail, and like your interpretations of
                                          > synchronicity
                                          > > > , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by
                                          > > >
                                          > > > (a) energy
                                          > > > or (b) causality
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was
                                          > > not
                                          > > > a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of
                                          > > the
                                          > > > SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                                          > > > tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the
                                          > > jambu
                                          > > > tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                                          > > > energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                                          > > > quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the
                                          > > centre
                                          > > > was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                                          > > > types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                                          > > > have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying
                                          > > that
                                          > > > the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth
                                          > > by
                                          > > > a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from
                                          > > the
                                          > > > bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                                          > > > sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                                          > > > -Pythagoras
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Godot.
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                          > <holderlin66@>
                                          > > > wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Godot wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish
                                          > > school
                                          > > > > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will
                                          > > use
                                          > > > > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                          > > > > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                          > > > > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the
                                          > stars
                                          > > > > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                          > > > > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound
                                          > > your
                                          > > > > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                                          > > this
                                          > > > > not so?"
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                          > > > > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of
                                          > the
                                          > > > > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age
                                          > for
                                          > > > > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                          > > > > Things."
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Bradford comments;
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human
                                          > being.
                                          > > > > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal.
                                          > > But
                                          > > > we
                                          > > > > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                          > > > point
                                          > > > > means better than the current Jungians.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age
                                          > > 33.
                                          > > > > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the
                                          > > world
                                          > > > > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                                          > > Declaration
                                          > > > > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing
                                          > > Religious
                                          > > > > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33,
                                          > at
                                          > > > > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space
                                          > > of
                                          > > > > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become
                                          > > one
                                          > > > of
                                          > > > > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                          > > > > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                          > > > three
                                          > > > > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                          > > > > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                          > > > > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                          > > > > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of
                                          > > Biography.
                                          > > > > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                          > > > seven-
                                          > > > > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the
                                          > > archetype
                                          > > > > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                          > > > particularly
                                          > > > > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                                          > > The
                                          > > > > book goes into detail about the need to understand the
                                          > > importance
                                          > > > of
                                          > > > > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                          > > > > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                                          > > chart
                                          > > > > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea,
                                          > > and
                                          > > > > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived
                                          > > and I
                                          > > > > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I
                                          > find
                                          > > > > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                          > > > > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work
                                          > > and
                                          > > > > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain
                                          > > even
                                          > > > > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a
                                          > > Mercury
                                          > > > > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real
                                          > gem."
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Bradford concludes;
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science.
                                          > Previously
                                          > > we
                                          > > > > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                          > > > with
                                          > > > > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and
                                          > > the
                                          > > > > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart;
                                          > > the
                                          > > > > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                          > > > > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                          > > > > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find
                                          > the
                                          > > > > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33
                                          > > years
                                          > > > > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                          > > > 1933
                                          > > > > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                                          > > Ahriman
                                          > > > > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is
                                          > > exposed
                                          > > > to
                                          > > > > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                          > > > recrossed
                                          > > > > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to
                                          > > what
                                          > > > we
                                          > > > > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                                          > > elemental
                                          > > > > intensity and GUILT.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                          > > > > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                          > > > > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces
                                          > > that
                                          > > > > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I
                                          > > AM,
                                          > > > > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away
                                          > > from
                                          > > > > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                                          > > when
                                          > > > > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                          > > > > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of
                                          > > the
                                          > > > > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                          > > > > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic
                                          > math
                                          > > > and
                                          > > > > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world
                                          > > and
                                          > > > > Man.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as
                                          > > possible
                                          > > > > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                          > > > > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                          > > > > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                                          > > incubate
                                          > > > > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that
                                          > > point.
                                          > > > > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                                          > > Christ
                                          > > > > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language,
                                          > brain,
                                          > > > > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away,
                                          > > looking
                                          > > > > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                                          > > developed
                                          > > > > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot,
                                          > fully
                                          > > > > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and
                                          > > as
                                          > > > > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra
                                          > > to
                                          > > > > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's
                                          > depicts
                                          > > > the
                                          > > > > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                                          > > Zarathustra
                                          > > > > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest
                                          > > prepared
                                          > > > > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this
                                          > > loving,
                                          > > > > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                                          > > Elohim
                                          > > > > Christ.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                                          > > Zarathustra
                                          > > > > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                                          > > clarified
                                          > > > > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom
                                          > > ever
                                          > > > > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                          > > > > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a
                                          > > gift
                                          > > > to
                                          > > > > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't
                                          > examine
                                          > > > all
                                          > > > > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                          > > > > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched
                                          > > althought
                                          > > > > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                          > > > > mysteries to us.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting
                                          > each
                                          > > > > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                                          > > live
                                          > > > > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                                          > > Take
                                          > > > > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region
                                          > > of
                                          > > > > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought
                                          > this
                                          > > I
                                          > > > > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                                          > > the
                                          > > > > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world
                                          > > over
                                          > > > > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds,
                                          > > Goethe,
                                          > > > > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                                          > > Christ
                                          > > > > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                          > > > family
                                          > > > > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                          > > > family!!
                                          > > > > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                          > > > > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                          > > > > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger
                                          > or
                                          > > > > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                          > > > with
                                          > > > > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                          > > > > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                                          > > titles
                                          > > > > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative
                                          > > of
                                          > > > > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                          > > > science
                                          > > > > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at
                                          > > age
                                          > > > 30
                                          > > > > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting
                                          > > confrontation
                                          > > > > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                          > > > > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                          > > > > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd
                                          > say
                                          > > we
                                          > > > > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list
                                          > > of
                                          > > > > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                                          > > places
                                          > > > > in the bushes.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > This is all that you need to remember about the difference
                                          > > between
                                          > > > > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • opetha
                                          Hello, OK, organicethics, but akash = unconcsious is a major blunder of childish proportions. You are embarressing. You say: But rest assured, that if you
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Oct 7, 2006
                                            Hello,

                                            OK, organicethics, but akash = unconcsious is a major blunder of
                                            childish proportions. You are embarressing.

                                            You say:

                                            "But rest assured, that if you send ME psychic `threats', you'll get
                                            sunken…!"

                                            You have a major ego problem as well. Capital "ME"? You have sunk
                                            yourself with this already. You will not attain to the things you speak
                                            and read of if you think in terms of childish ego squabbles.

                                            But look forward to something "red". . . . . . . . .(?)

                                            temhamitnA.
                                          • carol
                                            Peace; man! ... get ... speak
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Oct 9, 2006
                                              Peace; man!

                                              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Hello,
                                              >
                                              > OK, organicethics, but akash = unconcsious is a major blunder of
                                              > childish proportions. You are embarressing.
                                              >
                                              > You say:
                                              >
                                              > "But rest assured, that if you send ME psychic `threats', you'll
                                              get
                                              > sunken…!"
                                              >
                                              > You have a major ego problem as well. Capital "ME"? You have sunk
                                              > yourself with this already. You will not attain to the things you
                                              speak
                                              > and read of if you think in terms of childish ego squabbles.
                                              >
                                              > But look forward to something "red". . . . . . . . .(?)
                                              >
                                              > temhamitnA.
                                              >
                                            • carol
                                              Bradford wrote: `Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point Though I
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Oct 10, 2006
                                                Bradford wrote:

                                                `Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate
                                                and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point'


                                                Though I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having
                                                embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral' beauty in
                                                my 32th year, (which incidentally has me still marveling), it's
                                                worth noting that I know that at that time, I wasn't ripe to absorb
                                                the `living' meaning of the statement concerning Zarathustra and
                                                Christ.

                                                (Of course, Z's soul/spirit's participation in the mystery was quite
                                                THE exception)

                                                For this, I was only really able to incorporate into my conscious
                                                experience, in a living way, without hesitation, only recently, just
                                                past my mid forties.

                                                Would YOU say that this `mature' experience points towards the
                                                reasons why Steiner insisted on individuals waiting until their
                                                forties before assuming an `authoritative' voice vis ä vis
                                                spiritual science?

                                                As opposed to creating (deciphering) theories/art forms from
                                                within `the lively experience of youth'.

                                                Here are two distinct life stages which are spaced out and differ in
                                                caracter: exceptional creative inspiration within (the fountain of)
                                                youth and unwavering conscious soul experience (through having
                                                processed enough complex `life' experiences and also from possessing
                                                an intuitive experience of mortality)

                                                Would you like to elaborate on these ideas? Carol.

                                                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                                <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Godot wrote:
                                                >
                                                > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school
                                                > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use
                                                > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                                > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                                > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                                                > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                                > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound your
                                                > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                                                this
                                                > not so?"
                                                >
                                                > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                                > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                                                > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                                                > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                                > Things."
                                                >
                                                > Bradford comments;
                                                >
                                                > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                                                > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal. But
                                                we
                                                > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                                point
                                                > means better than the current Jungians.
                                                >
                                                > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age 33.
                                                > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the world
                                                > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                                                Declaration
                                                > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing Religious
                                                > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                                >
                                                > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                                                > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                                >
                                                > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                                >
                                                > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                                >
                                                > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                                >
                                                > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space of
                                                > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become one
                                                of
                                                > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                                > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                                three
                                                > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                                > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                                > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                                >
                                                > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                                >
                                                > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                                > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of Biography.
                                                > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                                seven-
                                                > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the archetype
                                                > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                                particularly
                                                > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                                                The
                                                > book goes into detail about the need to understand the importance
                                                of
                                                > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                                > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                                >
                                                > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                                                chart
                                                > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea, and
                                                > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived and
                                                I
                                                > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                                                > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                                > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                                >
                                                > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work and
                                                > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain even
                                                > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a Mercury
                                                > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."
                                                >
                                                > Bradford concludes;
                                                >
                                                > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously
                                                we
                                                > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                                with
                                                > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and the
                                                > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart; the
                                                > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                                > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                                > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                                                > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33 years
                                                > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                                1933
                                                > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                                                Ahriman
                                                > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                                >
                                                > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is exposed
                                                to
                                                > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                                recrossed
                                                > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to what
                                                we
                                                > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                                                elemental
                                                > intensity and GUILT.
                                                >
                                                > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                                > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                                > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces that
                                                > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I AM,
                                                > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away from
                                                > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                                                when
                                                > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                                > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of the
                                                > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                                > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math
                                                and
                                                > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world and
                                                > Man.
                                                >
                                                > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as possible
                                                > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                                > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                                > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                                                incubate
                                                > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point.
                                                > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                                                Christ
                                                > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                                                > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away, looking
                                                > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                                                developed
                                                > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                                                > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and as
                                                > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra to
                                                > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts
                                                the
                                                > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                                                Zarathustra
                                                > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest prepared
                                                > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this loving,
                                                > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                                                Elohim
                                                > Christ.
                                                >
                                                > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                                                Zarathustra
                                                > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                                                clarified
                                                > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom ever
                                                > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                                > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a gift
                                                to
                                                > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine
                                                all
                                                > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                                > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched althought
                                                > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                                > mysteries to us.
                                                >
                                                > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                                                > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                                                live
                                                > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                                                Take
                                                > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region of
                                                > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this I
                                                > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                                                the
                                                > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world over
                                                > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds, Goethe,
                                                > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                                                Christ
                                                > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                                family
                                                > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                                family!!
                                                > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                                > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                                > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                                                > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                                with
                                                > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                                > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                                                titles
                                                > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative of
                                                > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                                >
                                                > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                                science
                                                > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at age
                                                30
                                                > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting confrontation
                                                > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                                > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                                > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say
                                                we
                                                > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list of
                                                > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                                                places
                                                > in the bushes.
                                                >
                                                > This is all that you need to remember about the difference between
                                                > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                                >
                                              • holderlin66
                                                carol wrote: ...I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral beauty in my 32th year, (which
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Oct 15, 2006
                                                  carol wrote:

                                                  "...I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having
                                                  embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral' beauty in
                                                  my 32th year, (which incidentally has me still marveling), it's
                                                  worth noting that I know that at that time, I wasn't ripe to absorb
                                                  the `living' meaning of the statement concerning Zarathustra and
                                                  Christ.

                                                  (Of course, Z's soul/spirit's participation in the mystery was quite
                                                  THE exception)

                                                  For this, I was only really able to incorporate into my conscious
                                                  experience, in a living way, without hesitation, only recently, just
                                                  past my mid forties.

                                                  Would YOU say that this `mature' experience points towards the
                                                  reasons why Steiner insisted on individuals waiting until their
                                                  forties before assuming an `authoritative' voice vis ä vis
                                                  spiritual science?

                                                  As opposed to creating (deciphering) theories/art forms from
                                                  within `the lively experience of youth'.

                                                  Here are two distinct life stages which are spaced out and differ in
                                                  caracter: exceptional creative inspiration within (the fountain of)
                                                  youth and unwavering conscious soul experience (through having
                                                  processed enough complex `life' experiences and also from possessing
                                                  an intuitive experience of mortality)

                                                  Would you like to elaborate on these ideas? Carol."

                                                  Bradford comments;

                                                  Carol it is great to hear your spiritual voice. (As thought is
                                                  spiritual activity). For those of us who are not Zarathustra, we can
                                                  dig up example after biographical example of how our unprepared, and
                                                  semi-karmically prepared I AM's start facing our instincts at the 30
                                                  to the 35 mark. Distinctly we can fetch Bill Gates and we can note
                                                  how his attention, mission, destiny, certainly centered on the
                                                  objectification of the Global Intelligence that could well up, gush
                                                  upwards from the deep gorge of untapped human vision, in
                                                  connectedness everywhere. Thus all those particpating, if they have
                                                  the means, would be faced with a storm of hidden information, vast
                                                  fingertip libraries of humanity, Porn, and instincts, raw thought,
                                                  Orwellian thought, Luciferically watered down or poison pill laced
                                                  thought. Ahrimanic data, numbers, cold cruel pictures of human
                                                  beastliness, the worst and most hideous beastliness in all of the
                                                  beastly kingdoms.

                                                  With this information it is not hard to see with senstive artistic
                                                  imagination and intuition how hardened, rigidified and icy
                                                  standpoints congeal to Horns. Ten horns or horned beasts that
                                                  represent rigidified, forming slowly, Corporate Political systems
                                                  that calcify into overall materialistic mind sets, that sit
                                                  comfortably in tens of millions.

                                                  When you add nano technology and how ahrimanic forces which have the
                                                  intent to rip fragments of cloned humanity out of the karmic star
                                                  fabric, such a fantasy as depicted in films like the "The
                                                  Island" "Gattica" "Blade Runner" ...where humans are grown for
                                                  replacement and organ parts, for Gold and Immortality and serve the
                                                  calcification of the disease avarice, the entire Corporate anti-
                                                  Sophia realm of The Whore of Babylon, isn't even hard to picture it
                                                  developing out of human instincts the way John saw it.

                                                  John did the best he could to describe it, rising up out of the
                                                  intinctual morass of humanity, as a great congealing Anti-Human
                                                  factoring.John's Whore of Babylon was the Shadow on Earth of bright
                                                  Sophia Star wisdom fallen into human snares. Steiner updated and
                                                  filled in some of the blanks that John left as theory and Steiner
                                                  brought us into current Michael Speak which is different than
                                                  Orwell's NEWSPEAK. At the Dawn of the Age of Light we were given
                                                  updates and clarifications of all that was semi clouded and confused
                                                  coming from human I AM events.

                                                  "Newspeak was the official language of Oceania and had been devised
                                                  to meet the ideological needs of Ingsoc, or English Socialism. In
                                                  the year 1984 there was not as yet anyone who used Newspeak as his
                                                  sole means of communication, either in speech or writing. The
                                                  leading articles in The Times were written in it, but could only be
                                                  carried out by a specialist. It was expected that Newspeak would
                                                  have finally superseded Oldspeak (or Standard English) by about the
                                                  year 2050"

                                                  Seattle Times:

                                                  "The use of powerful and well-placed words and images worked for
                                                  INGSOC. Its slogan — war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is
                                                  strength — fits like a truncheon in the cradle of shattered bone..."

                                                  Bradford continues;

                                                  Intelligent human beings don't have to be reminded that Orwell did
                                                  us a service in writing his "1984". Grotesque human regime examples
                                                  can be given that go back to France and Phillip the Fair that
                                                  overturned anything to do with the feeble voice of the Magna Carta,
                                                  on through the regime of the Inquisition and the torturing of the
                                                  Templars giving us a mid-line of 1332 that lasted well beyond that
                                                  period, to Stalin, Nazi Germany, Mao, and again the little section
                                                  of time at the dawn of the 21st century, reveals once again the
                                                  activiation of this Karmic Group, intent on ripping fragments of the
                                                  I AM out of the Star patterns. How?

                                                  Shakespeare and all that we could, if we so desired, to understand
                                                  regarding why Ahriman wishes to destroy the tool of human karma by
                                                  creating on Earth cloned replications that rip human karma to
                                                  shreds, is simply there before us in the little poetic tragedy of
                                                  the Kennedy brothers and Romeo and Juliet.

                                                  "When he shall die take him and cut him out into stars and he shall
                                                  make the face of heaven so fine that all the world will be in love
                                                  with night and pay no worship to the garish sun." Quoting
                                                  Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, Robert Kennedy at the Democratic
                                                  National Convention, 8/27/64." TAKE HIM AND CUT HIM OUT INTO STARS.
                                                  As we do when we cut little stars that are all the same because we
                                                  have scissors and we can see how the folded paper is all linked into
                                                  a whole.

                                                  Bradford concludes;

                                                  Carol and I agree that ripening, the immense instincts, those same
                                                  instincts that rose up when the milkman in Amish PA. America, at 32,
                                                  took innocent girls hostage because he could not bear to see what
                                                  the I AM of his conscience knew of his own dark, dark, intent. And
                                                  what happens when we humans get to know all the secrets of our dark,
                                                  dark intents, that are swirling in the depths of our instincts? Bill
                                                  Gates opened these vast doors to the gurgling flood gates and surge
                                                  of all that is wisdom in humanity, our own Steiner Internet and
                                                  Archive had to struggle with complacent Anthros and still does, to
                                                  meet the vast instincts humanity carries and antidote them with
                                                  Michael Speak or Michael thought.

                                                  We know that adults on the path of Initiation Schooling get to know
                                                  that these dark intincts are not meant to hit the intellect with
                                                  their raw intensity without some preparation. That at 29 at the
                                                  Saturn return, to well into the Jupiter and Saturn age of our
                                                  biography we are entrusted to digest and ripen the kind of balance
                                                  of wisdom that does not place the human being alone with his demons
                                                  but gives him or her the tools of the Consciousness Soul.

                                                  But Bill Gates opened the world to vast, vast instincts, insights,
                                                  wisdom and tools....And Bill Gates was a mere 33 to 35, and if we
                                                  just look at Bill Gates Mission, we understand that if we take the
                                                  POF and open the mystery...Now kids, open the mystery literally
                                                  means looking down into the dark well of our deepest instincts, and
                                                  the roots of our I AM. What truly disturbs one and presents one with
                                                  another aspect of looking down the Well of the I AM and looking at
                                                  the overview and understanding the horrific courage it requires to
                                                  ripen and mature... there is the example of the very well we are
                                                  speaking about, in the film, "The Ring".

                                                  Naturally it is but a film. It is but a depiction of how we
                                                  penetrate to a most horrific mystery. A mystery that has addictive
                                                  power to it. It is a disturbing little film, "The Ring". Aside from
                                                  looking down the deep well and ripening our intelligence to face the
                                                  problems we have opened up, (opened a can of worms) the POF and all
                                                  aspects of Spiritual Science call upon the student to gain their I
                                                  AM compass orientation from the depths of looking into the deepest
                                                  mysteries of the Well and roots and connections to the depths of the
                                                  Earth.

                                                  Take for instance that the Water that Christ changes into wine that
                                                  is drawn from a well, and put in clay jars, six or seven clay jars.
                                                  Now Christ is going to first change this water from the deep bowels
                                                  of the etheric earth, into wine. Ah but he doesn't just decide to do
                                                  that, there is a wedding and a surge of joy and what we call
                                                  happiness and intoxication, a point where lots of people get
                                                  together, contribute and support, offer freely their gifts to some
                                                  couple who is being wed. An astral surge runs through the close knit
                                                  wedding guests, they make bread, contribute tables, sow fabrics, get
                                                  dressed up, the farmer planted, the plants grew, the meals were
                                                  cooked, the bread and flat breads were made from the flower, the
                                                  donkey's turned the stone wheel that ground the wheat. Vegtables
                                                  helped, gnomes helped, salamandars served the Donkey's, fires and
                                                  ovens had been made and trees grew fruits and were cultivated by
                                                  human hands and olives were sprinkled over the greens and the bread
                                                  dipped in the olive oils. These utter basics are all contributed,
                                                  not from a super-market but rather are all called forth from the
                                                  treasure of old instinctive causes for celebration, community and
                                                  human union. Instinctive Causes for celebration.

                                                  Christ adds to this a new force where enthusiasm and joy change the
                                                  entire chemical forces in the clay jars, and the water drawn from
                                                  the deep regions of the Earth, in a small etheric science miracle, a
                                                  new cognitive force has been changed by the I AM's participation.
                                                  The I AM has plenty of sweet instincts in the well and in these
                                                  days, what seems to sell are plenty of bitter forces that lurk like
                                                  monsters in the well as well. Steiner was an I AM initiate and he
                                                  like the rest of us was living in a science age where the I AM was
                                                  not even on the table as a consideration. Steiner as an I AM
                                                  initiate went down the well and brought out Biodynamics, Waldorf
                                                  Education, Eurythmy and the full fledged Science of the I AM in
                                                  potential.

                                                  And one more thing, the film "The Ring" centers around the problem
                                                  of one child who has something so potent, say, a complete 24/7 wide
                                                  awake, immortal force in her that cannot die and cannot be removed,
                                                  it is an acute problem that can either be understood as our immortal
                                                  core or rejected and become the curse and bane of humanity by
                                                  rejecting it. We cannot kill this immortal core. We can only learn
                                                  to ripen our courage to grasp how each individual child can be given
                                                  the tools and foundation to cope with the great thoughts of the
                                                  world and navigate and be given a compass that holds to a true
                                                  Spiritual North.

                                                  Naturally adults who are morally ripened individual are able to
                                                  educate children and one of the Miracles of the Science of the
                                                  Consciousness Soul is the conscious curriculum structure of Waldorf
                                                  Education. Biodynamics is another raw Science of the Consciousness
                                                  Soul and a victory of the I AM in the instincts of the Earth and
                                                  Stars. Waldorf Education extends into the Angelic intervention where
                                                  humans can plant the tools of consciousness that will be needed so
                                                  that by age 32 to 72 humanity can ripen the immense depth of the I
                                                  AM. Because as Carol has said, we are not Zarathustra's. We are slow
                                                  and stubborn humans.

                                                  Zarathustra had consolidated most of his former faculties by age
                                                  TWELVE. So Zarathustra's twelve is like our age 30 in terms of the I
                                                  Am ratio of speed and growth compared to the physical body of seven
                                                  years and the etheric body and the astral body and finally the speed
                                                  of the I AM are all differently paced clocks in the human psyche.
                                                • carol
                                                  Dear Bradford, thank you for your `rich response. I especially enjoyed reading your conclusion in it s entirety. What truly disturbs one and presents one
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Oct 15, 2006
                                                    Dear Bradford, thank you for your `rich' response. I especially
                                                    enjoyed reading your conclusion in it's entirety.


                                                    "What truly disturbs one and presents one with
                                                    another aspect of looking down the Well of the I AM and looking at
                                                    the overview and understanding the horrific courage it requires to
                                                    ripen and mature..."

                                                    This statement touches me deeply because at the age of 22, I was
                                                    subject to a sudden metamorphoses; karmic events triggered me to
                                                    abruptly abandon the use of recreational drugs; I was almost
                                                    instantly placed in the higher worlds without education. I used all
                                                    the ingenuity, energy of my youth and all internalized experiences;
                                                    to climb the great mountain of my soul's and eternal self's wish for
                                                    me as if I was a penniless orphan, on hands and knees…

                                                    Bradford, the heavens gave me `living' Drama for which I am
                                                    eternally grateful and now, quite attached to as well. Carol.



                                                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                                    <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > carol wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > "...I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having
                                                    > embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral' beauty in
                                                    > my 32th year, (which incidentally has me still marveling), it's
                                                    > worth noting that I know that at that time, I wasn't ripe to absorb
                                                    > the `living' meaning of the statement concerning Zarathustra and
                                                    > Christ.
                                                    >
                                                    > (Of course, Z's soul/spirit's participation in the mystery was
                                                    quite
                                                    > THE exception)
                                                    >
                                                    > For this, I was only really able to incorporate into my conscious
                                                    > experience, in a living way, without hesitation, only recently,
                                                    just
                                                    > past my mid forties.
                                                    >
                                                    > Would YOU say that this `mature' experience points towards the
                                                    > reasons why Steiner insisted on individuals waiting until their
                                                    > forties before assuming an `authoritative' voice vis ä vis
                                                    > spiritual science?
                                                    >
                                                    > As opposed to creating (deciphering) theories/art forms from
                                                    > within `the lively experience of youth'.
                                                    >
                                                    > Here are two distinct life stages which are spaced out and differ
                                                    in
                                                    > caracter: exceptional creative inspiration within (the fountain of)
                                                    > youth and unwavering conscious soul experience (through having
                                                    > processed enough complex `life' experiences and also from
                                                    possessing
                                                    > an intuitive experience of mortality)
                                                    >
                                                    > Would you like to elaborate on these ideas? Carol."
                                                    >
                                                    > Bradford comments;
                                                    >
                                                    > Carol it is great to hear your spiritual voice. (As thought is
                                                    > spiritual activity). For those of us who are not Zarathustra, we
                                                    can
                                                    > dig up example after biographical example of how our unprepared,
                                                    and
                                                    > semi-karmically prepared I AM's start facing our instincts at the
                                                    30
                                                    > to the 35 mark. Distinctly we can fetch Bill Gates and we can note
                                                    > how his attention, mission, destiny, certainly centered on the
                                                    > objectification of the Global Intelligence that could well up,
                                                    gush
                                                    > upwards from the deep gorge of untapped human vision, in
                                                    > connectedness everywhere. Thus all those particpating, if they
                                                    have
                                                    > the means, would be faced with a storm of hidden information, vast
                                                    > fingertip libraries of humanity, Porn, and instincts, raw thought,
                                                    > Orwellian thought, Luciferically watered down or poison pill laced
                                                    > thought. Ahrimanic data, numbers, cold cruel pictures of human
                                                    > beastliness, the worst and most hideous beastliness in all of the
                                                    > beastly kingdoms.
                                                    >
                                                    > With this information it is not hard to see with senstive artistic
                                                    > imagination and intuition how hardened, rigidified and icy
                                                    > standpoints congeal to Horns. Ten horns or horned beasts that
                                                    > represent rigidified, forming slowly, Corporate Political systems
                                                    > that calcify into overall materialistic mind sets, that sit
                                                    > comfortably in tens of millions.
                                                    >
                                                    > When you add nano technology and how ahrimanic forces which have
                                                    the
                                                    > intent to rip fragments of cloned humanity out of the karmic star
                                                    > fabric, such a fantasy as depicted in films like the "The
                                                    > Island" "Gattica" "Blade Runner" ...where humans are grown for
                                                    > replacement and organ parts, for Gold and Immortality and serve
                                                    the
                                                    > calcification of the disease avarice, the entire Corporate anti-
                                                    > Sophia realm of The Whore of Babylon, isn't even hard to picture
                                                    it
                                                    > developing out of human instincts the way John saw it.
                                                    >
                                                    > John did the best he could to describe it, rising up out of the
                                                    > intinctual morass of humanity, as a great congealing Anti-Human
                                                    > factoring.John's Whore of Babylon was the Shadow on Earth of
                                                    bright
                                                    > Sophia Star wisdom fallen into human snares. Steiner updated and
                                                    > filled in some of the blanks that John left as theory and Steiner
                                                    > brought us into current Michael Speak which is different than
                                                    > Orwell's NEWSPEAK. At the Dawn of the Age of Light we were given
                                                    > updates and clarifications of all that was semi clouded and
                                                    confused
                                                    > coming from human I AM events.
                                                    >
                                                    > "Newspeak was the official language of Oceania and had been
                                                    devised
                                                    > to meet the ideological needs of Ingsoc, or English Socialism. In
                                                    > the year 1984 there was not as yet anyone who used Newspeak as his
                                                    > sole means of communication, either in speech or writing. The
                                                    > leading articles in The Times were written in it, but could only
                                                    be
                                                    > carried out by a specialist. It was expected that Newspeak would
                                                    > have finally superseded Oldspeak (or Standard English) by about
                                                    the
                                                    > year 2050"
                                                    >
                                                    > Seattle Times:
                                                    >
                                                    > "The use of powerful and well-placed words and images worked for
                                                    > INGSOC. Its slogan — war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance
                                                    is
                                                    > strength — fits like a truncheon in the cradle of shattered
                                                    bone..."
                                                    >
                                                    > Bradford continues;
                                                    >
                                                    > Intelligent human beings don't have to be reminded that Orwell did
                                                    > us a service in writing his "1984". Grotesque human regime
                                                    examples
                                                    > can be given that go back to France and Phillip the Fair that
                                                    > overturned anything to do with the feeble voice of the Magna
                                                    Carta,
                                                    > on through the regime of the Inquisition and the torturing of the
                                                    > Templars giving us a mid-line of 1332 that lasted well beyond that
                                                    > period, to Stalin, Nazi Germany, Mao, and again the little section
                                                    > of time at the dawn of the 21st century, reveals once again the
                                                    > activiation of this Karmic Group, intent on ripping fragments of
                                                    the
                                                    > I AM out of the Star patterns. How?
                                                    >
                                                    > Shakespeare and all that we could, if we so desired, to understand
                                                    > regarding why Ahriman wishes to destroy the tool of human karma by
                                                    > creating on Earth cloned replications that rip human karma to
                                                    > shreds, is simply there before us in the little poetic tragedy of
                                                    > the Kennedy brothers and Romeo and Juliet.
                                                    >
                                                    > "When he shall die take him and cut him out into stars and he
                                                    shall
                                                    > make the face of heaven so fine that all the world will be in love
                                                    > with night and pay no worship to the garish sun." Quoting
                                                    > Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, Robert Kennedy at the Democratic
                                                    > National Convention, 8/27/64." TAKE HIM AND CUT HIM OUT INTO
                                                    STARS.
                                                    > As we do when we cut little stars that are all the same because we
                                                    > have scissors and we can see how the folded paper is all linked
                                                    into
                                                    > a whole.
                                                    >
                                                    > Bradford concludes;
                                                    >
                                                    > Carol and I agree that ripening, the immense instincts, those same
                                                    > instincts that rose up when the milkman in Amish PA. America, at
                                                    32,
                                                    > took innocent girls hostage because he could not bear to see what
                                                    > the I AM of his conscience knew of his own dark, dark, intent. And
                                                    > what happens when we humans get to know all the secrets of our
                                                    dark,
                                                    > dark intents, that are swirling in the depths of our instincts?
                                                    Bill
                                                    > Gates opened these vast doors to the gurgling flood gates and
                                                    surge
                                                    > of all that is wisdom in humanity, our own Steiner Internet and
                                                    > Archive had to struggle with complacent Anthros and still does, to
                                                    > meet the vast instincts humanity carries and antidote them with
                                                    > Michael Speak or Michael thought.
                                                    >
                                                    > We know that adults on the path of Initiation Schooling get to
                                                    know
                                                    > that these dark intincts are not meant to hit the intellect with
                                                    > their raw intensity without some preparation. That at 29 at the
                                                    > Saturn return, to well into the Jupiter and Saturn age of our
                                                    > biography we are entrusted to digest and ripen the kind of balance
                                                    > of wisdom that does not place the human being alone with his
                                                    demons
                                                    > but gives him or her the tools of the Consciousness Soul.
                                                    >
                                                    > But Bill Gates opened the world to vast, vast instincts, insights,
                                                    > wisdom and tools....And Bill Gates was a mere 33 to 35, and if we
                                                    > just look at Bill Gates Mission, we understand that if we take the
                                                    > POF and open the mystery...Now kids, open the mystery literally
                                                    > means looking down into the dark well of our deepest instincts,
                                                    and
                                                    > the roots of our I AM. What truly disturbs one and presents one
                                                    with
                                                    > another aspect of looking down the Well of the I AM and looking at
                                                    > the overview and understanding the horrific courage it requires to
                                                    > ripen and mature... there is the example of the very well we are
                                                    > speaking about, in the film, "The Ring".
                                                    >
                                                    > Naturally it is but a film. It is but a depiction of how we
                                                    > penetrate to a most horrific mystery. A mystery that has addictive
                                                    > power to it. It is a disturbing little film, "The Ring". Aside
                                                    from
                                                    > looking down the deep well and ripening our intelligence to face
                                                    the
                                                    > problems we have opened up, (opened a can of worms) the POF and
                                                    all
                                                    > aspects of Spiritual Science call upon the student to gain their I
                                                    > AM compass orientation from the depths of looking into the deepest
                                                    > mysteries of the Well and roots and connections to the depths of
                                                    the
                                                    > Earth.
                                                    >
                                                    > Take for instance that the Water that Christ changes into wine
                                                    that
                                                    > is drawn from a well, and put in clay jars, six or seven clay
                                                    jars.
                                                    > Now Christ is going to first change this water from the deep
                                                    bowels
                                                    > of the etheric earth, into wine. Ah but he doesn't just decide to
                                                    do
                                                    > that, there is a wedding and a surge of joy and what we call
                                                    > happiness and intoxication, a point where lots of people get
                                                    > together, contribute and support, offer freely their gifts to some
                                                    > couple who is being wed. An astral surge runs through the close
                                                    knit
                                                    > wedding guests, they make bread, contribute tables, sow fabrics,
                                                    get
                                                    > dressed up, the farmer planted, the plants grew, the meals were
                                                    > cooked, the bread and flat breads were made from the flower, the
                                                    > donkey's turned the stone wheel that ground the wheat. Vegtables
                                                    > helped, gnomes helped, salamandars served the Donkey's, fires and
                                                    > ovens had been made and trees grew fruits and were cultivated by
                                                    > human hands and olives were sprinkled over the greens and the
                                                    bread
                                                    > dipped in the olive oils. These utter basics are all contributed,
                                                    > not from a super-market but rather are all called forth from the
                                                    > treasure of old instinctive causes for celebration, community and
                                                    > human union. Instinctive Causes for celebration.
                                                    >
                                                    > Christ adds to this a new force where enthusiasm and joy change
                                                    the
                                                    > entire chemical forces in the clay jars, and the water drawn from
                                                    > the deep regions of the Earth, in a small etheric science miracle,
                                                    a
                                                    > new cognitive force has been changed by the I AM's participation.
                                                    > The I AM has plenty of sweet instincts in the well and in these
                                                    > days, what seems to sell are plenty of bitter forces that lurk
                                                    like
                                                    > monsters in the well as well. Steiner was an I AM initiate and he
                                                    > like the rest of us was living in a science age where the I AM was
                                                    > not even on the table as a consideration. Steiner as an I AM
                                                    > initiate went down the well and brought out Biodynamics, Waldorf
                                                    > Education, Eurythmy and the full fledged Science of the I AM in
                                                    > potential.
                                                    >
                                                    > And one more thing, the film "The Ring" centers around the problem
                                                    > of one child who has something so potent, say, a complete 24/7
                                                    wide
                                                    > awake, immortal force in her that cannot die and cannot be
                                                    removed,
                                                    > it is an acute problem that can either be understood as our
                                                    immortal
                                                    > core or rejected and become the curse and bane of humanity by
                                                    > rejecting it. We cannot kill this immortal core. We can only learn
                                                    > to ripen our courage to grasp how each individual child can be
                                                    given
                                                    > the tools and foundation to cope with the great thoughts of the
                                                    > world and navigate and be given a compass that holds to a true
                                                    > Spiritual North.
                                                    >
                                                    > Naturally adults who are morally ripened individual are able to
                                                    > educate children and one of the Miracles of the Science of the
                                                    > Consciousness Soul is the conscious curriculum structure of
                                                    Waldorf
                                                    > Education. Biodynamics is another raw Science of the Consciousness
                                                    > Soul and a victory of the I AM in the instincts of the Earth and
                                                    > Stars. Waldorf Education extends into the Angelic intervention
                                                    where
                                                    > humans can plant the tools of consciousness that will be needed so
                                                    > that by age 32 to 72 humanity can ripen the immense depth of the I
                                                    > AM. Because as Carol has said, we are not Zarathustra's. We are
                                                    slow
                                                    > and stubborn humans.
                                                    >
                                                    > Zarathustra had consolidated most of his former faculties by age
                                                    > TWELVE. So Zarathustra's twelve is like our age 30 in terms of the
                                                    I
                                                    > Am ratio of speed and growth compared to the physical body of
                                                    seven
                                                    > years and the etheric body and the astral body and finally the
                                                    speed
                                                    > of the I AM are all differently paced clocks in the human psyche.
                                                    >
                                                  • holderlin66
                                                    The tell tale signs of a hot choleric character profile, who merges with fire, the fire of ideas, the candle flame, and writes a wonderful play on that flame
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Nov 19, 2006
                                                      The tell tale signs of a hot choleric character profile, who merges
                                                      with fire, the fire of ideas, the candle flame, and writes a
                                                      wonderful play on that flame called the Candle Maker that had
                                                      ignited like a lit flame in his intellect. Bruno represents living
                                                      and dying by the fiery temperament and character of the choleric
                                                      thinker, doer, who feeds off resistance and human ignorance in the
                                                      dawning age of mighty light that ripped through his thinking.

                                                      Bruno and Waldorf education understands human realities as the basis
                                                      of grasping that Bruno was born near the active sulphur spewing
                                                      volcano Vesuvius and we can see how powerfully this environment
                                                      infused into his blood the fire salamanders from our previous
                                                      temperament studies. When we actually understand the clues of
                                                      various individual destinies, we can also take into consideration
                                                      where an individual grew up and was born and what impressed his
                                                      early etheric development. Here we see what impressed Giordano
                                                      Bruno's early etheric development.

                                                      http://pages.zoom.co.uk/thuban/html/bruno.html

                                                      "In the year 1548 an Italian boy was born in the little town of
                                                      Nola, not far from Vesuvius. Although, he spent the greater part of
                                                      his life in hostile and foreign countries he was drawn back to his
                                                      home at the end of his travels and after he had written nearly
                                                      twenty books.

                                                      When he was thirteen years old he began to go to school at the
                                                      Monastery of Saint Domenico. It was a famous place. Thomas Aquinas,
                                                      himself a Dominican, had lived there and taught. Within a few years
                                                      Bruno had become a Dominican priest.

                                                      It was not long before the monks of Saint Dominico began to learn
                                                      something about the extraordinary enthusiasm of their young
                                                      colleague. He was frank, outspoken and lacking in reticence. It was
                                                      not long before he got himself into trouble. It was evident that
                                                      this boy could not be made to fit into Dominican grooves. One of
                                                      the first things that a student has to learn is to give the teacher
                                                      the answers that the teacher wants. The average teacher is the
                                                      preserver of the ancient land marks. The students are his audience.
                                                      They applaud but they must not innovate. They must learn to labor
                                                      and to wait. It was not Bruno's behavior but his opinions that got
                                                      him into trouble.

                                                      He ran away from school, from his home town, from his own country
                                                      and tried to find among strangers and foreigners a congenial
                                                      atmosphere for his intellectual integrity that he could not find at
                                                      home. It is difficult not to get sentimental about Bruno. He was a
                                                      man without a country and, finally, without a church.

                                                      Bruno was interested in the nature of ideas. Although the name was
                                                      not yet invented it will be perfectly proper to dub Bruno as an
                                                      epistemologist, or as a pioneer Semanticist. He takes fresh stock
                                                      of the human mind."

                                                      http://snowbarsk.autoklad.com/images/zasimovich/sculpture/5.jpg

                                                      Choleric type;

                                                      Now the hot blooded and fiery choleric, can be found in Emergency
                                                      Rooms and in Medics everywhere. They are not always fiery red-headed
                                                      carrot tops that always stare at you with 'come on, go ahead, I can
                                                      take ya' faces. That fire appears in the soft embering glow of
                                                      Steiner's in depth lectures, fiery Michael forces supercharged his
                                                      blood, where the warmth in his Iron and Light ignited spirit flares
                                                      that revealed clarity where there was gathering darkness. His words
                                                      rang as consecrated light in all directions. Fission, fusion and
                                                      Iron centered sun spirituality cooked Steiner's rich dishes with a
                                                      warm, kindled, human blaze.

                                                      But then again, on the battle front of life, saving lives, from fire
                                                      men and women to police and swat teams to search and rescue on the
                                                      high seas, to special forces teams, you hear the choleric
                                                      shout, 'GO, GO, GO, GO!'. Adrenaline junkies can be found working
                                                      rush hours in restaurants, on the cooking line in the heat of the
                                                      battle, where the grills spit fire right in their faces and they
                                                      spit back. Choleric fire is in all of us, even Tiger Woods breaks
                                                      from his Zen mode to get really pissed off sometimes.

                                                      "Some people – and all narcissists – are addicted to excitement, to
                                                      the adrenaline rush, to the danger inevitably and invariably
                                                      involved. They are the adrenaline junkies. All narcissists are
                                                      adrenaline junkies – but not all adrenaline junkies are narcissists.

                                                      Thus, an adrenaline junkie must have a supply, a feed, which always
                                                      comes with invented excitement, real or invented drama or emotional
                                                      drama queens that have choleric forces in their feeling life. We can
                                                      understand that choleric forces or any of the other temperaments can
                                                      lodge themselves, not only in the will, but in the feeling, and in
                                                      the region of mental aggression. On the one hand solid Choleric
                                                      types are described as closer to the ground, Napoleonic and over
                                                      confident. In a pinch you know that a Choleric will cover your back,
                                                      fight to the death and remain in the game though anxiety is
                                                      everywhere and the odds against you are everywhere a great choleric
                                                      will be the last face you see before you pass out.
                                                    • holderlin66
                                                      Correction fire elemental of the choleric system http://phopro.ie/earthspirit/fire_salamander.jpg http://www.matrifocus.com/IMB05/images/fire-salamander-sm.jpg
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Nov 19, 2006
                                                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.