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Re: Amoeba contra Manu

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  • carol
    The original post reminded me of reading about the eigth sphere in a lecture series called: Occult Movements in the 19th Century ; the french translation is
    Message 1 of 30 , Oct 2, 2006
      The original post reminded me of reading about "the eigth sphere" in
      a lecture series called:
      "Occult Movements in the 19th Century"; the french translation
      is `Les dangers d'un occultisme matérialiste' which you probably can
      decipher meaning: the dangers of materialistic occultism. Does
      anyone want to comment on this?
      >
      > Bradford responds;
      >
      > I enjoyed some of your recent descriptions of New Age Lucifer and
      > Ahriman offshoots. Gradually the student of spiritual science
      learns
      > how to look at the various predominating soul forces, Michael
      > Jackson makes a very good study in Luciferic tendencies, yet, the
      > stinging luciferic/ahrimanic in Ann Coulter in the west, or the
      > Luciferic/Ahrimanic in Karl Rove and the dominating Ahrimanic in
      > Dick Cheney, slowly allows each human being a chance to measure
      > ourselves and our own compromises. For the reason for this
      schooling
      > isn't to accuse others of anything, but rather to be very
      conscious
      > of our own mixed bag of tricks, operative at all times and all
      > places.
      >
      > Locating the high moral ground of where the Etheric Christ reality
      > supports childhood, supports the etheric memory tableau of human
      > striving, ages, Manvantaras and the entire Occult Science an
      Outline
      > is where true science, not big bang nonsense or even carbon dating
      > arises with clarity. Christ is in the very models of soul and
      spirit
      > and in the very weaving forces that objectively hold the whole
      model
      > of the human up to the light. And in that light of course weave
      the
      > Ahrimanic and Luciferic in us and they are part of the whole
      needed
      > reality in human endeavor. Christ and the Etheric Christ lives
      fully
      > in the entire superstructure and intimacies of the model that our
      I
      > AM is made of. What is clarity and what does a student of
      Spiritual
      > Science encounter?
      >
      > Firstly we do encounter in ourselves and in the world the icy
      > coldness of intellectual soul lies, (that is that we also can
      > clearly locate one of the NINE not merely the SEVENFOLD forces of
      > the micro I AM system, and this micro I AM system is a mini
      > Manvantara, with one of the layers of soul in the term,
      INTELLECTUAL
      > SOUL) and the general tendency of Lucifer to get stoned, get high
      > and preserve the field of sexual Venusian mysteries, at least what
      > we have termed here on Earth, Venusian mysteries. These mysteries
      of
      > love have to do with Aphrodite Mysteries and fallen porn or
      awakened
      > higher love, and the love of Freya or Good Friday or higher Love
      > mysteries. These pertain literally to Dove mysteries. For it is
      true
      > that earthy and good sex, sensual love and the entire endocrine
      > system in the human being, is what we clearly and solidly
      understand
      > when Christian Rosenkreuz saw Venus naked in "The Chymical Wedding
      > of Christian Rosenkreuz". I can only suggest you do your research
      > and do catch up to true science or work out specific questions.
      > Everyone will still balk, resist, refuse due to their own etheric
      > and astral squirming, to find other answers than Spiritual Science
      > but it is in fact that Spiritual Science contains the Logos of the
      > Etheric Christ thinking in it.
      >
      > But as I see it, GODOT, excuse me if I got your name wrong, it is
      so
      > highly clear that stone, plant, animal and human stand there
      before
      > your eyes and my eyes. That to produce the I Am from the Earth
      > Manvantara ----- the ASTRAL body from the Old Moon Manvantara -----
      -
      > the ETHERIC BODY from the Sun evolution ------ and the physical
      body
      > designed from ancient Saturn....When we clearly with scientific
      eyes
      > look at the reality of these phases in, and pralayas that bring
      > about the mix and phases on earth of mineral, plant, animal and
      > human, there is no way not to see that the mineral has no etheric,
      > that the plant has no astral body, (externalized in the insect
      > kingdom) and the animal has no I AM or individualized thinking and
      > memory capacity. People have to shake themselves out of their
      > stupidity and bad education to grasp the clarity of this before
      our
      > eyes. And it is expected that refusal, disbelief and inability to
      > think because of subjective educational issues and subjective
      souls
      > issues will continue to obstruct and block The Etheric Christ
      > Sciences.
      >
      > But to overcome some of the lumbering aspects of the science of
      the
      > Earth I AM system, we resort to how the Stars, not the big bang,
      > which is utterly a stupid idea to imply that this all emerged as a
      > bomb of chaos and haphazard EVOLUTION, really begs the question of
      > what do you think Intelligent Design implies?
      >
      > According to Fundamentalism, Intelligent design is linked to
      > Biblical Fundamentalism, creationism of 7 days of creation.
      Nonsense
      > again!!! Theosophy was always closer to the understanding of
      > Intelligent Design, but now we have to understand why certain
      > Ahrimanic forces would insert the name INTELLIGENT DESIGN, which
      > should apply to anything that Occult Science an Outline delivers,
      > steal the term, and apply this to Fundamental Biblical
      Creationism.
      > Creationism is Biblical reductionism. Creationism arises from what
      > we in the west term the Cliff Notes for the dull and stupid, to
      > include some facts...such as SEVEN DAYS. Then we come to what is
      > this Seven and the Rainbow that Newton and Goethe argued over? And
      > what does Light and what Steve Hale brought, light measured at
      > 186,000 miles pers second, have to do with our understanding of 24
      > hour days and the lofty Elohim or Time jumping in the I AM. In
      other
      > words is the model of a human, an angel an Archangel as well as
      > animal, plant and stone, within the model of the whole family of
      > MAN? Duh, it is!!!!!
      >
      > But because we are not children, the Ahrimanic and Luciferic have
      > striven to retain these childish ideas and resist the Pauline
      > Schooling of "When I was a Child, I read Biblical fairy tales that
      > were way, way, way over my head," but gave little effort into
      > understanding from Theosophy or Anthroposophy what is truly the
      > meaning of INTELLIGENT DESIGN. Now we cannot use the word
      > Intelligent Design because it was hyjacked by Luciferic church
      going
      > ding-bats to be taught with utter LITERALISM and brainwashing to
      > children.
      >
      > Meanwhile all that has brought about the new Etheric Christ
      > education that fills the gap of old peasant wisdom in the previous
      > Waldorf and Education thread, means that the vast Etheric Christ
      > contains the cohesion of the Etheric thinking field of the
      organized
      > unfolding system from far back and beyond our human insertion all
      > the way to the present. Hijacking the term intelligent design
      makes
      > Ahriman happy for it locks out real thinking. Those folks who are
      > quietly serving Luciferic and Ahrimanic aims, don't even create
      the
      > opportunity to really understand what Intelligent Design would
      mean.
      > It traps these others in what we term the Sentient Soul corruption
      > where Lucifer remains trapped in the giddy region of Sin, Sex and
      > guilt of the old church values. Such dull and clunky thinking also
      > serves the educational clumsiness of the Intellectual Soul which
      > fuels every university and fuels as well the stupidity of our
      > current political process.
      >
      > So then you ask about Amoeba and contra Manu it is a can of worms
      > which each and everyone of us are required to unravel or else.
      Today
      > we have stars over our heads. The reality is that the complex math
      > configurations and gateway to the stars are part of the Angelic
      > field operations of how each child is given a twelvefold, twelve
      > pairs of cranial nerves that supplies the insertion of the spirit
      > germ into the birth of the physical child and gives this child a
      > star compass, an actual star compass in their grey matter and
      within
      > the mathematical dead zone of the great Stars above us. This vast
      > idea must be digested and that requires serious work. The Great
      > Stars above us are part of the micro model of the great stars
      within
      > us, that the Angelic community oversees when it helps to insert a
      > human into the stream of TIME. Again, most exciting research that
      > all begins to make sense, so that spiritual science students no
      > longer have to entertain nonsense and bullshit as educational
      > excuses for their failures to explain these insights. There is no
      > excuse for us to not go about unraveling these mysteries.
      >
      > So imagine the stupidity of skipping over how Zarathustra planned
      > his incarnation from Chaldea with the result of the Three Kings
      and
      > the Jesus Deed. Imagine how we don't consider Jesus some visiting
      > Avatar at all. The Christ Being Himself and every detail of His
      > union with a Human, reflects the fact that the Human is made in
      the
      > model of our elder brothers the gods.
      >
      > Zarathustra the Persian and Chaldea Initiate transended and worked
      > way outside the Star field and worked directly with planning on
      how
      > to insert himself into the Hebrew people so that Christ could
      ignite
      > Himself within the Etheric and Ethnic forces of warmth within the
      > Hebrew people and use that warmed iron rich blood to dive into the
      > bones of Spirit Man. The planning and the star mastery that
      > Zarathustra showed so dwarfs the dim bulbed science fiction of
      > sending ourselves in little spaceships to Mars via fully failed
      NASA
      > thinking. Or by looking directly into our own human system and
      > dealing with the fact of our having a strong Mars force within us.
      > Or the third option, is following the movements of Mars and
      > understanding that we invaded Iraq and went hyper war mode when
      Mars
      > was the closest to the Earth in som thousands of years. We must
      > account for the TWELVEFOLD cranial nerve package that we observe
      in
      > individuals who take their karma down to Earth and resolve issues
      of
      > destiny under Karma and star compass capacities that they bear. If
      > you don't understand these things about how the human nervous
      system
      > and the 12 pairs of cranial nerves function as a thought and
      > navigation tool for the birth date and birth of the child, you
      need
      > to study more.
      >
      > These all reveal what? What do they reveal? They reveal that this
      > Earth System, including the Stars above us, are fixed within the
      > human cranial nerve package, known as our astral body, and within
      > the Etheric Heart package of the human being. Therefore those
      stars
      > out there and planets are part of the intimate human package. We
      > grow this package of human capacities from the etheric heart of
      > childhood to the astral heart to the mature and ripened I AM
      heart,
      > the heart that is developed and was developed in Zarathustra/Jesus
      > by age 30.
      >
      > The human being journeys out and expands out to the stars at death
      > and shrinks and carries his star compass with him into Time as he
      is
      > born into a physical form on Earth. To conclude, the mineral
      cannot
      > say that; the plant cannot say that; the animal can partly say
      that;
      > but to the human being, we are the Stars and we carry the Stars
      and
      > we carry the entire Etheric Memory, that is carried now by the
      > Etheric Christ and the Etheric Christ Event which we date at its
      > strongest point of entry, Feb 27, 1933. The Etheric memory of
      > Saturn, Sun, Old Moon, Earth evolution as the foundations of His
      > Being....Now that is Science, anything short of that is chaotic
      > nonsense taught everywhere on this planet and has to be sorted out
      > by intelligent people. All we need is a few intelligent people.
      > Luckily Spiritual Science calls forth intelligent people.
      >
      > And in every detail from animal to stone, to plant, we can look
      > directly into the etheric cohesion and vast memory field as well
      as
      > the individual memory tableau released at death, and we can find
      > this etheric life and Light in the plant chemical digestion of
      light
      > and the human blood's digestion of thought, light, life and and
      the
      > so called qualities of light that appear in the thought world and
      > enter the blood, when we consider Luciferic thought and Luciferic
      > Light, Christ Etheric Light and Ahrimanic intellectual soul
      cunning
      > and electricity and nerve light. This we do in His Name when we
      > consider different qualities and effects of different types of
      Soul
      > Light.
      >
      > Steiner had the great good fortune to travel with a true
      Paracelsus,
      > herbalist who met him on a train, (later included as Felix and
      > Felcita Balde in The Mystery Dramas) and the links to earth
      sciences
      > awoke and were coaxed forward so that Steiner could understand the
      > intimate organization of nature and bring his vision in line with
      > reality. And that is the process, we all must do. Bring our sight
      in
      > line with reality. I started out with Culpepper and Paracelsus
      with
      > a small herb book in my hand comparing each tiny flower citizen.
      But
      > I am nothing on the path. Steiner had already developed such
      > powerful organizational logic fields in previous incarnations that
      > when he incarnated with his gifted young sight, Steiner needed to
      > anchor this sight deeply into the kingdom of Nature and that is
      why
      > he met the Herbalist.
      >
      > We can approach Spiritual Science from any particular angle and it
      > will make sense, but we also have to do particular extensive
      > monitoring our flaws and soul diversion escapades that are stirred
      > up just because we are encounter the solution to a thousand human
      > riddles because of the Etheric Christ Event in our thinking.

      opetha wrote:
      >
      > "How can we--as anthroposophists and theosophists---reckon
      adequately
      > the testament of a world evolving from rare spirit into dense
      matter
      > over seven Manvantaras with its almost spontaneous sets of races,
      > when we have sedementary records, radio isotopics and and almost
      > empirically-excepted law of natural selection and the big-bang?
      >
      > I know that a very dry scientist cannot glimpse into such astral-
      > phenomena, spreading and belittling the evolutionists time-span as
      it
      > does, but then so many fossil records justify environmental-
      > adaptation in the species---though I'm not sure how bona fide the
      > Hadean Earth theory is. . . .
      >
      > Is there some paradox we are not getting? that TIME itself has been
      > changing too, maybe with a spiritual Earth not only falling into
      > matter, but also into TIME, at point x, where history spans that
      way
      > and the future this? "
      >

      >
    • Valerie Walsh
      ... The original post and parts of Bradford s response reminded me fundamentally of Hal s Bar and Grill , the French translation being, I believe, La barre de
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 2, 2006
        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > The original post reminded me of reading about "the eigth sphere" in
        > a lecture series called:
        > "Occult Movements in the 19th Century"; the french translation
        > is `Les dangers d'un occultisme matérialiste' which you probably can
        > decipher meaning: the dangers of materialistic occultism. Does
        > anyone want to comment on this?

        The original post and parts of Bradford's response reminded me
        fundamentally of "Hal's Bar and Grill", the French translation being, I
        believe, La barre de Hal et grille.-Val
      • Steve Hale
        ... in ... can ... The logistics of the moon and the eighth sphere is described in Steiner s lecture course, The Occult Movement in the Nineteenth Century ,
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 2, 2006
          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...>
          wrote:
          >
          >
          > The original post reminded me of reading about "the eigth sphere"
          in
          > a lecture series called:
          > "Occult Movements in the 19th Century"; the french translation
          > is `Les dangers d'un occultisme matérialiste' which you probably
          can
          > decipher meaning: the dangers of materialistic occultism. Does
          > anyone want to comment on this?

          The logistics of the moon and "the eighth sphere" is described in
          Steiner's lecture course, "The Occult Movement in the Nineteenth
          Century", given October 10-25 of 1915. Herein is described the
          entire basis and rationale for the creation of the eighth sphere; to
          provide a counter-balance to the unmineralized physical (Jehovian)
          moon, which has given its mineral content over to the earth in the
          Lemurian epoch. This was done in order for the physical-mineral
          constitution of the earth to commence as the basis for man's dense
          three-fold embodiment required to receive the Ego. Because Jehova
          remained on the moon rather than departing with the six other Sun
          Spirits at the end of the Moon sphere of evolution, it became
          possible for the Astral Body to receive an acceleration of its
          archetypal development on the moon, while Jehova planted the seed of
          the Ego during sleep consciousness for its subsequent development on
          earth; at the beginning of our earth sphere, rather than at the end,
          as originally planned.

          Thus, in order to counteract the strong, and detrimental tendencies
          that would have prevailed for human evolution on earth, i.e., 1) the
          perpetuation of the old imaginative-visionary clairvoyance of the
          moon; and, 2) the full development of the human astral body in
          advance of the ego's proper development on earth, the eighth sphere
          was set up to mitigate these influences. Thus the eighth sphere is a
          completely mechancial contrivance that has been formed out of
          mineral substance meant for the earth; sequestered, so to speak, by
          Lucifer and Ahriman, and re-supplied to what was to be the etheric
          husk of the old moon. Because the physical and luminescent Jehovian
          moon was guarded against receiving back any of its original mineral
          nature, it had to be given to this 'spectral' sphere.

          As more and more mineral substance has gone to the eight sphere over
          the course of maybe, 40,000 years since that point in the Lemurian
          epoch when the mineral kingdom passed over to the earth, this sphere
          has taken on rotational characteristics around the fixed and
          luminous physical moon. It has the effect of acting as a shroud,
          which is mistaken for being the phases of the moon.

          Steve
        • opetha
          Bradford/Holderlin, Many thanks for your lengthy and impassioned account, it s more than appreciated. You sound like one very concerned about spiritual truths
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
            Bradford/Holderlin,

            Many thanks for your lengthy and impassioned account, it's more than
            appreciated. You sound like one very concerned about spiritual truths
            for mankind.

            My own school of thought, I have to admit, is more in the direction
            of Carl Jung's Analytical Psychology and although I understand that
            there are active spiritual forces both in and out of man, i am still
            somewhat reticent in my own persnal life because of the whole nature
            of astral phenomena being OBJECTIVE, and this entails a choice that
            cannot be faked by the wrong type of Karmic placement (or Karmamarg).
            And by this I understand that anything realized on the astral plane
            or any higher spiritual world is a conditioned contrivance, though
            with karma beneficence, of the aspirate. You more advanced
            anthroposophists must know well that your first spiritual experiences
            were not in SEEING etheric properties in plants and the macrocosm,
            but in READING such personalities as Steinar, his magistry reaching
            out of the page and giving new meaning to your earley lives. This was
            a "pulling-in for you".

            My tending toward Jung involves an empiric understanding of the
            unconscious and complexes and a kind of palette that can paint
            various pictures in our conscious sensation realms, and at that maybe
            limited in colours. Jung always looked poorly on Steinar and the
            theosophical movement because its consciousness was so developed that
            it abandoned the unconscious and maybe saw this, as I maybe do also,
            as an imbalance--hence I likened the anthroposophic movement as
            LUCIFERIC--light, consciousness (your "ahrimanic"). Jung's other
            discovery was the psychological types: THINKING, FEELING, INTUITION,
            and SENSATION. Jung was very strict with word-designations and felt
            they had to be etymologically-precise, which is different in
            Anthroposophy, where they appear to this "phoneme-regressive"
            unconscious theory as spurious and haphazard, Steinar would use
            sensation and intuition as meaning different faculties than what Jung
            would want as fundamental (for instance, a tarot reader calls their
            psychic power "intuition" but Jung quite rightly distingiuishes
            intuition as a language of the prophets and of the unconscious
            symbols, whereas Tarot psychics would be THINKING (objective,
            extraverted, conditioned , thinking). proper intuition would see the
            tarot cards as archetypal substances, the Tarot card THE TOWER as the
            same dream complexity as the penis ejaculating and flopping over,
            whereas an advanced psychic would see a magic cloud over this card
            that shows rather the thing it entails (timothy's rocket ship project
            failing on Tuesday, rather than a guess based on the dream analogy).
            So you see that the tarot psychic, as with a biased depth
            psychologist, would never have recourse to glimpse the others meaning
            behind their own personal word constructs, the psychic would have
            frontal lobe or anja-chakra powers from an earley age that would make
            them forsake the complexities of, say, Jung's empirical subjective
            way.

            And all these dispositions can only be based on karma, which is, even
            in wooden psychology, a empirical and provable science. And this is
            only provable is (for their sake) we abandon the whole notion (for
            the time being) of spiritual energy from the planets (though you,
            Bradford, and Steve Hale cannot do this) and reckon the idea of
            synchroncity. This posits that the planet venus moving into my sign
            of capricorn in astrology has no more spiritual and energic effect on
            my love life any more than my love life has a spiritual and energic
            effect that moves venus into Capricorn, because both are synchronized
            and acausally connected. Two time lines---the ephemeris and my
            biography---never cross but are parallel. Karma as horoscope symbols
            are innate as unconscious complexes and project in my life onto
            available affordances, whether badly placed planets as synchronistly
            appearing as bad fortune, or goodly placed planets projecting in time
            upon likeable things. And this circular horoscope, I'm sure we all
            now agree, is the halo about the buddharupa, that mandala at the back
            of His head. The planets on the periphery are the skandas (reigns)
            which are charged by libido-interest (kama-desire). To destroy karma
            and achieve moksha is to destroy all attachment to Karmic images,
            even positive ones.

            But just not to go of track, what I wanted to say was that in
            Analytical Psychology to be of a spiritual disposition is to be of
            one of the four(or eight) psychological types, namely the extraverted
            THINKING type that Jung reduces to a type that often believes its
            word conventions are a means an end and are easily doctrinable by
            fancy playful language--and I only point this out to the
            anthroposophical and magickal personality that it is likely on
            certain terms only one arm of that cross which signifies atma-
            wholeness, THINKING and FEELING are called the rational, positive
            psyche's, with INTUITION and SENSATION as irrational and negative.
            People born with good prarabhda Karma will most likely be of the
            positive disposition and with bad prarabdha karma of the negative,
            and this entails also an habitual introversion of libido or
            extraversion.

            We've all heard the saying "ignorance is bliss" and this is one of
            the failings of the negative type (OK, myself included there) that
            there IS a need for the rationality of the unconscious, the matrix of
            innate and eternal ideas before they have affordances, and this is
            the machine that the gnostics were interested in, the first religion
            of Jesus, who some thought was of the dhamma. With blessed Karma the
            available opportunies in the outside world, whether money, or
            spiritual entities, are a magnet that pulls AWAY from the unconscious
            systematics and therefore of conformative science.

            Where you guys speak of Steinar having developed his powers through
            many incarnations, I can only assume that he was once like Jung and
            that his temperance had migrated him to a more positive and, shall we
            say, matrically unconcerned mentality. That a spiritualist and
            anthroposophist can not ask fundamental questions of the unconcious
            matrix, or combat fundamental earth science adequatly, is because
            they are blessed, by so many soul-journeys, with the reluctance of
            the mother (dark/underneith) and the desire of the son (light/the
            above). The two proper types of Christianity included romanticism
            and "phallicism"--romanticism was the Ahrimanic (your "luciferic")
            that had bad Karma and shirked away from the object for the hopeful
            intuiton prayer, the sychronistic signs, and the love of the mother
            (or mother complex), the "phallic" Christianity, was the positive
            Karmic and love the object--the spiritual onject---and understood the
            Christian word as having no fundamental science (hence theology as
            unethical) and was a complete emersion in conscious wakeful light of
            christ conconciousness, moksha by faith, St, Stephens unpoundable and
            infinite love. Compare Tertulians simplicity to Orgen and the
            gnostics's complexity, this is the whole squirmish that reduced pure
            faith-consciousness to gnostic science, scholasticism, mdoern
            philosphy and right down into depth psychology. Both, the romantic
            and the phallic, are undertood as dualities where God-atma (or I AM)
            is the only unity, and the world exists of these opposites in Karma
            the blest and the down-trodden, both wanting good but one unable to
            commend with the anthroposophical teaching due to some Karmic
            restraint.

            Your voice, Bradford, and Mr Hale show the dispositions of the
            THINKING types who have almost nominalistic word conventions, and you
            are so sure of your teachings--which is a good thing---but maybe
            (just maybe) have to consider how anthroposophy can become properly
            a world "science" when it is so objective as to leave behind the
            Karmically stunted scientist--like myself. Your style of speaking in
            its surety with such physics is exactly the same as Barbara Hand Clow
            who speaks like-lucidly and non-fundamentally, but with a whole
            different spiritual law; that we have evolved from lizzards, the the
            annunaki on the planet nibiru gave the jews uranium commandment stone
            to take over are minds, and that the mayan-immigrant spirits in the
            Pleiades will nourish our world with spiritual light in AD 2012. All
            this with first hand, psychic contact. Her world exists, as does
            yours, even the world of the man who OBJECTIVIZED that george Harrisn
            on was a witch from the planet Neptune, but all without corners
            touching.

            So, it appears that the whole of the spiritual world is objective and
            creatable, depending on what palette we have in our unconscious. When
            you die I;m sure you will go to devachan, and that a Christian will
            go to paradise and a Tibetan will see all those astral things from
            the BARDO THROTROL, but these are not things for fundamental science,
            are they. My excellerated consciousness will CREATE a objective abode
            for my spiritual actions--pure kreyamena Karma.

            The life journey is one from deep sleep in the watery womb to high
            consciousness in the akash. The infallibility of mankind is that they
            get caught halfway, the libido cannot migrate so well to
            consciousness with Karmic complexes (the palette) in the unconscious,
            when consciousness is venerated completely the umbilical coard from
            the unconcious matrix is cut and, the light/libido dwelling in
            enlightened consciousness in its entirety, the unconscious is not
            only not needed anymore, but denied existance, hence this dipsute I
            claim about etymologically fundamental word conventions of Jung, but
            not of Steinar (LUCIFER = light = positive = future, AHRIMAN = dark =
            negative = past. . . .). The akash of devachan or the "otherside" is
            one without the unconscious. We are here "as the angels of Heaven, no
            longer given in marriage" because we lose are genetic Karma, even our
            sanchita Karma which is of a greater race cycle (also I could allude
            to jesus's disowning his mother and brothers--no longer the simple
            Jew---but EVERY MAN...and even Steinars remark that in Christ
            consciousness only the body sleeps whilst the mind goes into the
            macrocosm).

            But I hope you understand my language in that I have taken up to
            understand yours, and also what I mean by meeting me halfway is along
            that arm of the cross where you be THINKING (into the heights)--good
            Karma through development--and I be INTUITION (tuition of the depth)
            by bad Karma, because these are the types that make up the whole of
            mankind that we are trying to so erroneously influence.

            I think that in the next life I will have better prarabdha Karma,
            more libido/light in consciousness, that will forsake my mother (the
            unconscious), where "ignorance is bliss" and I can formulate on the
            astral plane the etheric realms, but now, I am not ignorant enough to
            CHOOSE between Anthroposophy, Thelema, Pleiadeanism, or any other
            woven reality, because I was made to love sacrifice.

            But let us love one-another.

            Godo.













            >
            > Bradford responds;
            >
            > I enjoyed some of your recent descriptions of New Age Lucifer and
            > Ahriman offshoots. Gradually the student of spiritual science
            learns
            > how to look at the various predominating soul forces, Michael
            > Jackson makes a very good study in Luciferic tendencies, yet, the
            > stinging luciferic/ahrimanic in Ann Coulter in the west, or the
            > Luciferic/Ahrimanic in Karl Rove and the dominating Ahrimanic in
            > Dick Cheney, slowly allows each human being a chance to measure
            > ourselves and our own compromises. For the reason for this
            schooling
            > isn't to accuse others of anything, but rather to be very conscious
            > of our own mixed bag of tricks, operative at all times and all
            > places.
            >
            > Locating the high moral ground of where the Etheric Christ reality
            > supports childhood, supports the etheric memory tableau of human
            > striving, ages, Manvantaras and the entire Occult Science an
            Outline
            > is where true science, not big bang nonsense or even carbon dating
            > arises with clarity. Christ is in the very models of soul and
            spirit
            > and in the very weaving forces that objectively hold the whole
            model
            > of the human up to the light. And in that light of course weave the
            > Ahrimanic and Luciferic in us and they are part of the whole needed
            > reality in human endeavor. Christ and the Etheric Christ lives
            fully
            > in the entire superstructure and intimacies of the model that our I
            > AM is made of. What is clarity and what does a student of Spiritual
            > Science encounter?
            >
            > Firstly we do encounter in ourselves and in the world the icy
            > coldness of intellectual soul lies, (that is that we also can
            > clearly locate one of the NINE not merely the SEVENFOLD forces of
            > the micro I AM system, and this micro I AM system is a mini
            > Manvantara, with one of the layers of soul in the term,
            INTELLECTUAL
            > SOUL) and the general tendency of Lucifer to get stoned, get high
            > and preserve the field of sexual Venusian mysteries, at least what
            > we have termed here on Earth, Venusian mysteries. These mysteries
            of
            > love have to do with Aphrodite Mysteries and fallen porn or
            awakened
            > higher love, and the love of Freya or Good Friday or higher Love
            > mysteries. These pertain literally to Dove mysteries. For it is
            true
            > that earthy and good sex, sensual love and the entire endocrine
            > system in the human being, is what we clearly and solidly
            understand
            > when Christian Rosenkreuz saw Venus naked in "The Chymical Wedding
            > of Christian Rosenkreuz". I can only suggest you do your research
            > and do catch up to true science or work out specific questions.
            > Everyone will still balk, resist, refuse due to their own etheric
            > and astral squirming, to find other answers than Spiritual Science
            > but it is in fact that Spiritual Science contains the Logos of the
            > Etheric Christ thinking in it.
            >
            > But as I see it, GODOT, excuse me if I got your name wrong, it is
            so
            > highly clear that stone, plant, animal and human stand there before
            > your eyes and my eyes. That to produce the I Am from the Earth
            > Manvantara ----- the ASTRAL body from the Old Moon Manvantara ------

            > the ETHERIC BODY from the Sun evolution ------ and the physical
            body
            > designed from ancient Saturn....When we clearly with scientific
            eyes
            > look at the reality of these phases in, and pralayas that bring
            > about the mix and phases on earth of mineral, plant, animal and
            > human, there is no way not to see that the mineral has no etheric,
            > that the plant has no astral body, (externalized in the insect
            > kingdom) and the animal has no I AM or individualized thinking and
            > memory capacity. People have to shake themselves out of their
            > stupidity and bad education to grasp the clarity of this before our
            > eyes. And it is expected that refusal, disbelief and inability to
            > think because of subjective educational issues and subjective souls
            > issues will continue to obstruct and block The Etheric Christ
            > Sciences.
            >
            > But to overcome some of the lumbering aspects of the science of the
            > Earth I AM system, we resort to how the Stars, not the big bang,
            > which is utterly a stupid idea to imply that this all emerged as a
            > bomb of chaos and haphazard EVOLUTION, really begs the question of
            > what do you think Intelligent Design implies?
            >
            > According to Fundamentalism, Intelligent design is linked to
            > Biblical Fundamentalism, creationism of 7 days of creation.
            Nonsense
            > again!!! Theosophy was always closer to the understanding of
            > Intelligent Design, but now we have to understand why certain
            > Ahrimanic forces would insert the name INTELLIGENT DESIGN, which
            > should apply to anything that Occult Science an Outline delivers,
            > steal the term, and apply this to Fundamental Biblical Creationism.
            > Creationism is Biblical reductionism. Creationism arises from what
            > we in the west term the Cliff Notes for the dull and stupid, to
            > include some facts...such as SEVEN DAYS. Then we come to what is
            > this Seven and the Rainbow that Newton and Goethe argued over? And
            > what does Light and what Steve Hale brought, light measured at
            > 186,000 miles pers second, have to do with our understanding of 24
            > hour days and the lofty Elohim or Time jumping in the I AM. In
            other
            > words is the model of a human, an angel an Archangel as well as
            > animal, plant and stone, within the model of the whole family of
            > MAN? Duh, it is!!!!!
            >
            > But because we are not children, the Ahrimanic and Luciferic have
            > striven to retain these childish ideas and resist the Pauline
            > Schooling of "When I was a Child, I read Biblical fairy tales that
            > were way, way, way over my head," but gave little effort into
            > understanding from Theosophy or Anthroposophy what is truly the
            > meaning of INTELLIGENT DESIGN. Now we cannot use the word
            > Intelligent Design because it was hyjacked by Luciferic church
            going
            > ding-bats to be taught with utter LITERALISM and brainwashing to
            > children.
            >
            > Meanwhile all that has brought about the new Etheric Christ
            > education that fills the gap of old peasant wisdom in the previous
            > Waldorf and Education thread, means that the vast Etheric Christ
            > contains the cohesion of the Etheric thinking field of the
            organized
            > unfolding system from far back and beyond our human insertion all
            > the way to the present. Hijacking the term intelligent design makes
            > Ahriman happy for it locks out real thinking. Those folks who are
            > quietly serving Luciferic and Ahrimanic aims, don't even create the
            > opportunity to really understand what Intelligent Design would
            mean.
            > It traps these others in what we term the Sentient Soul corruption
            > where Lucifer remains trapped in the giddy region of Sin, Sex and
            > guilt of the old church values. Such dull and clunky thinking also
            > serves the educational clumsiness of the Intellectual Soul which
            > fuels every university and fuels as well the stupidity of our
            > current political process.
            >
            > So then you ask about Amoeba and contra Manu it is a can of worms
            > which each and everyone of us are required to unravel or else.
            Today
            > we have stars over our heads. The reality is that the complex math
            > configurations and gateway to the stars are part of the Angelic
            > field operations of how each child is given a twelvefold, twelve
            > pairs of cranial nerves that supplies the insertion of the spirit
            > germ into the birth of the physical child and gives this child a
            > star compass, an actual star compass in their grey matter and
            within
            > the mathematical dead zone of the great Stars above us. This vast
            > idea must be digested and that requires serious work. The Great
            > Stars above us are part of the micro model of the great stars
            within
            > us, that the Angelic community oversees when it helps to insert a
            > human into the stream of TIME. Again, most exciting research that
            > all begins to make sense, so that spiritual science students no
            > longer have to entertain nonsense and bullshit as educational
            > excuses for their failures to explain these insights. There is no
            > excuse for us to not go about unraveling these mysteries.
            >
            > So imagine the stupidity of skipping over how Zarathustra planned
            > his incarnation from Chaldea with the result of the Three Kings and
            > the Jesus Deed. Imagine how we don't consider Jesus some visiting
            > Avatar at all. The Christ Being Himself and every detail of His
            > union with a Human, reflects the fact that the Human is made in the
            > model of our elder brothers the gods.
            >
            > Zarathustra the Persian and Chaldea Initiate transended and worked
            > way outside the Star field and worked directly with planning on how
            > to insert himself into the Hebrew people so that Christ could
            ignite
            > Himself within the Etheric and Ethnic forces of warmth within the
            > Hebrew people and use that warmed iron rich blood to dive into the
            > bones of Spirit Man. The planning and the star mastery that
            > Zarathustra showed so dwarfs the dim bulbed science fiction of
            > sending ourselves in little spaceships to Mars via fully failed
            NASA
            > thinking. Or by looking directly into our own human system and
            > dealing with the fact of our having a strong Mars force within us.
            > Or the third option, is following the movements of Mars and
            > understanding that we invaded Iraq and went hyper war mode when
            Mars
            > was the closest to the Earth in som thousands of years. We must
            > account for the TWELVEFOLD cranial nerve package that we observe in
            > individuals who take their karma down to Earth and resolve issues
            of
            > destiny under Karma and star compass capacities that they bear. If
            > you don't understand these things about how the human nervous
            system
            > and the 12 pairs of cranial nerves function as a thought and
            > navigation tool for the birth date and birth of the child, you need
            > to study more.
            >
            > These all reveal what? What do they reveal? They reveal that this
            > Earth System, including the Stars above us, are fixed within the
            > human cranial nerve package, known as our astral body, and within
            > the Etheric Heart package of the human being. Therefore those stars
            > out there and planets are part of the intimate human package. We
            > grow this package of human capacities from the etheric heart of
            > childhood to the astral heart to the mature and ripened I AM heart,
            > the heart that is developed and was developed in Zarathustra/Jesus
            > by age 30.
            >
            > The human being journeys out and expands out to the stars at death
            > and shrinks and carries his star compass with him into Time as he
            is
            > born into a physical form on Earth. To conclude, the mineral cannot
            > say that; the plant cannot say that; the animal can partly say
            that;
            > but to the human being, we are the Stars and we carry the Stars and
            > we carry the entire Etheric Memory, that is carried now by the
            > Etheric Christ and the Etheric Christ Event which we date at its
            > strongest point of entry, Feb 27, 1933. The Etheric memory of
            > Saturn, Sun, Old Moon, Earth evolution as the foundations of His
            > Being....Now that is Science, anything short of that is chaotic
            > nonsense taught everywhere on this planet and has to be sorted out
            > by intelligent people. All we need is a few intelligent people.
            > Luckily Spiritual Science calls forth intelligent people.
            >
            > And in every detail from animal to stone, to plant, we can look
            > directly into the etheric cohesion and vast memory field as well as
            > the individual memory tableau released at death, and we can find
            > this etheric life and Light in the plant chemical digestion of
            light
            > and the human blood's digestion of thought, light, life and and the
            > so called qualities of light that appear in the thought world and
            > enter the blood, when we consider Luciferic thought and Luciferic
            > Light, Christ Etheric Light and Ahrimanic intellectual soul cunning
            > and electricity and nerve light. This we do in His Name when we
            > consider different qualities and effects of different types of Soul
            > Light.
            >
            > Steiner had the great good fortune to travel with a true
            Paracelsus,
            > herbalist who met him on a train, (later included as Felix and
            > Felcita Balde in The Mystery Dramas) and the links to earth
            sciences
            > awoke and were coaxed forward so that Steiner could understand the
            > intimate organization of nature and bring his vision in line with
            > reality. And that is the process, we all must do. Bring our sight
            in
            > line with reality. I started out with Culpepper and Paracelsus with
            > a small herb book in my hand comparing each tiny flower citizen.
            But
            > I am nothing on the path. Steiner had already developed such
            > powerful organizational logic fields in previous incarnations that
            > when he incarnated with his gifted young sight, Steiner needed to
            > anchor this sight deeply into the kingdom of Nature and that is why
            > he met the Herbalist.
            >
            > We can approach Spiritual Science from any particular angle and it
            > will make sense, but we also have to do particular extensive
            > monitoring our flaws and soul diversion escapades that are stirred
            > up just because we are encounter the solution to a thousand human
            > riddles because of the Etheric Christ Event in our thinking.
            >
          • holderlin66
            opetha wrote: but maybe (just maybe) have to consider how anthroposophy can become properly a world science when it is so objective as to leave behind the
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
              opetha wrote:

              "but maybe
              (just maybe) have to consider how anthroposophy can become properly
              a world "science" when it is so objective as to leave behind the
              Karmically stunted scientist--like myself. Your style of speaking in
              its surety with such physics is exactly the same as Barbara Hand Clow
              who speaks like-lucidly and non-fundamentally, but with a whole
              different spiritual law; that we have evolved from lizzards, the the
              annunaki on the planet nibiru gave the jews uranium commandment stone
              to take over are minds, and that the mayan-immigrant spirits in the
              Pleiades will nourish our world with spiritual light in AD 2012."

              Bradford comments;

              I know nothing about you, save how you approach your thought world.
              I have written extensively on the subjects of how Freud, Jung and
              Steiner form a whole and that whole takes it's start from the truths
              that come from each of these three representative agents. The
              problem you have that I don't have at present, is that I have
              already accepted Jung as one of the phases of unfolding insight. But
              let's review for you how reality, as opposed to the undiscerned,
              goobly-gook of Lizards from the large and unseen but resonating
              planet in our solar system, Nibiru can not in the least be compared
              with any seekers compass for truth.

              Don't expect to get some easy, anybody can make up any truth they
              want and reality is a crap shoot, bullshit answer to life's riddles.
              Freud has done wonders for the Mothering side of how the etheric
              shadows of our blood relationships influence our ethnic and etheric
              relations via what our mother's pass on to us. Freud represents a
              chaotic but interesting Woody Allen version of how much our blood
              and etheric developments can be crippled in our psychologies.

              Jung has generalized the unconscious and Steiner has mapped the
              unconscious. Jung made bold attempts to map the unconscious but for
              his region of soul, Jung managed to prepare some interesting ground
              work, particularly the anima and animus as already developed
              Spiritual Science themes of the accurate etheric mirror in us. That
              is what Emma Jung developed further, yet that is a theme that
              Steiner had already mapped. Meaning clearly and literally that
              opposite our physical sex, our etheric bodies carry an opposite
              mirror of our physical bodies. Which meant that our etheric bodies
              are male if we have a female physical body and our etheric bodies
              are female if we have a male etheric body. There is fact you take
              out of the Jungian scavenger hunt and replace back in the box of
              Steiner Science where it belongs. Jungian psychology has advanced
              many different aspects of soul and therefore we can give Jung a C-
              for incohesive understanding of the astral and soul body.

              So far we have Freud being an incomplete and fumbling version of how
              the perspective of psychology arises from the etheric body connected
              to our mothers which makes Woody Allen a bodhisattva of Freudian
              psychology. Jungian psychology attempts to map the threefhold system
              of intelligence, Jungian psychology is Anthro-lite. Jungian
              psychology verifies Athletic Intelligence - Emotional Intelligence
              and Brain bound intelligence...and all three of these operate in a
              threefold world that Steiner mapped far more carefully than any of
              these two. Waldorf is desgined to bring all three into harmony.
              Sports intelligence, instinctive intelligence and sports activated
              bodily intelligence truly resonates with one area and group of
              souls. Emotional intelligence, artists, strippers, lovers, writers,
              poets, singers, film makers....all weave forces of emotional
              intelligence with spits and spats of vision and imagination. Then we
              have dried up brain intellgence, polls, numbers, statistics, and
              really encapsulated in Mr. Stephen Hawkings entire riddle.

              Now I agree with your train wreck of nominalistic and realistic word
              use, that according to you Jung really, really wanted accurate
              semantics and definitions and strove to be clear... Well that is why
              most Anthros can truly understand and accept Jung's efforts and Emma
              Jung and Jungian thinkers, but Jungian thinkers are generally merely
              scavengers of astral dreams and subconscious worlds that have not
              been defined as part of the astral world at all. In fact Jungians
              have not defined the astral realities in relation to the super
              system of the nervous system of the human being. Freudians have not
              defined the etheric blood based ethnic forces as related to the
              lymphatic system which produces Freud's faulty concepts of Love of
              Mother. These Jungians and Freudians and other abstract researchers
              don't acknowledge the reality of the etheric world, don't consider
              the reality of the astral world, don't include in any way the
              advanced supersystem of the mighty Etheric Christ Being active
              within humanities etheric body. These researchers who deny all this
              and fumble around with great eastern terms and deny the system of
              the etheric, astral and I AM are not science students thay are rumor
              scavengers.

              No, I'm afraid to inform you that much of Jungian psychology is
              wonderfully foundational to any approach to Spiritual Science. But
              Spiritual Science is the Science of the I AM... that means that we
              take Freud as having danced around the issue of the etheric body and
              it can be clearly understood that Freud's gifts and failures have to
              do with his relation to the unfolding concepts and freed up concepts
              of the Etheric life. Which are laced with utter amateur nonsense.
              I'm afraid to inform you that Jungian research is still growing up
              and is not even yet close to I AM Science and wanders in the great
              halls of the astral body without even knowing it's name or it's use.
              And finally I am afraid to inform you that Steiner incorporates all
              three levels, the body, the soul and the spirit and the physical,
              etheric, and astral levels and Steiner himself is a scientist of the
              I Am.

              Now as you have seen in my current writings, there is a constant
              undercurrent sketch of the Etheric Christ Being as a reality that is
              under the mighty wave of science even as it struggled with wave and
              particle theories. I can trace with utter accuracy the dawn of the
              Age of Light, 1899 and trace the eastern terminologies of the
              unfolding eras and clearly bring to your attention how the Age of
              Light, the dawn of physics, Heisenberg's uncertainty principle and
              Jung's Sychronicity principle are tied. How Einstein's approach and
              research to the sense of light and energy and matter, were all
              developed side by side with the dawn of the Age of Light and the
              entrance of the vast Etheric Christ experience of humanity outlined
              by Steiner.

              The Kritayuga and the dawn of the vast Etheric Christ experience
              started rising as both wave and particle theories took root in the
              etheric thinking of humanity. Steiner clearly walked right up to the
              door of this age of Light and opened it to the bright illuminating
              source of the cohesion of intelligence and shining etheric Logos of
              the Risen Etheric Christ and ushered it in.

              Steiner directly worked with the dawn of the Etheric Christ and the
              inrushing Age of Light. The entire Hindu history of the ending of
              the kaliyuga to the dawning of the kritayuga and what we must both
              agree upon, as the Theosophical understanding of Intelligent Design
              and the Anthropsophical understanding of Intelligent Design, can
              clearly be read in the unfolding of Science and physics and the
              unfolding of the etheric sciences of Anthroposophy. These can be
              traced without your disclaimers that nobody can know baloney from
              truth. For the only thing you can say of yourself is that you are
              not ready or want to take an inconvienent stand to know the
              difference between your own baloney and truth and therefore prefer
              to keep certainty and clarity far from you, so that you think you
              can buy wiggle room.

              You are afraid that any reality that can be documented and
              understood with solid clarity just might be wrong...Well guess what,
              the vast Soul/Spirit model is woven with plenty of human leeway,
              plenty of play and plenty of room for human error allowed,
              nevertheless the model is there and it isn't waiting on whether your
              fickleness and emotional stability and your sense of being weighted
              down by reality might prevent you from soaring off to Lizards land
              on planet Nebiru or finding just as much truth there as under your
              bed on a dark and stormy night. The I AM system makes ALL INCLUDED.
              Just because there is a real Science of the universe, eventually
              your gonna have to come out of make believe land and understand how
              the Child develops and what are the true layers of soul and how a
              human reincarnates.

              That is why I was rather curious how you wish to avoid sinking your
              teeth into the wild and historical reality of such a thing as the
              true age of Light and my mention of the Etheric Christ in many, many
              instances. Now the Etheric Christ is not some stray belief, it is
              the Science of the Resurrection and the Science of Spiritual Science
              which was born from the Theosophy of Intelligent Design. The error I
              hope you are not making, is that the well developed and well planned
              incarnation of Jesus by the conscious Initiate Zarathustra wasn't a
              belief in some god, it was the full fledged accomplishment of that
              which is the core of Resurrection Science and material science, the
              conquering and planting of the seed of Spirit Man in the historical,
              physical, etheric and astral forces of the I AM. In other words, the
              Etheric Christ is not a belief but a fact of nature and reality.

              I suggest you wander in the halls of Jung and Theosophy until you
              are totally and happily convinced that there are so many realities
              and like a good candy store, why should you settle for one. And
              aren't we fools who use the whole I AM system to understand all the
              realities and any reality that any human mind can come up with. Now
              all the realities very well exist, as you have said, in the soul
              mind of many different people. But don't even imagine that somehow
              this cheap astral scavenger hunt that Jung so enjoys changes one
              fact of the Christ Event. It doesn't! It requires humanity to plunge
              into the superstructure and Intelligent Design of their own I AM.
              Right now the astral body and all the thrills of pretending there
              are no laws...allows you and allows us all to have that wonderful
              feeling of the rich playground fit and save for all truths.

              But the compass of the Spiritual anchor in the I AM can only be
              satisified with the kiddie pool for so long. When you decide to get
              serious or develop your happy meal freedom within the super joy of
              the vast I AM logos...you don't need permission from Jung, Freud or
              Steiner. The law of the I AM is seriously larger than both Jung and
              Freud or any Jungian model. And finally, much of Jungian psychology
              and Theosophy do not disagree with the Intelligent Design of
              Spiritual Science. Here is your hall pass go have fun!!!
            • holderlin66
              In addition to various ways to describe the human being, they amount to several, lets say for the present, FOUR, integrated forces that have their origin in
              Message 6 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
                In addition to various ways to describe the human being, they amount
                to several, lets say for the present, FOUR, integrated forces that
                have their origin in the already refined substance of the stars,
                that we term Fire, Air, Water and Earth. So the educator and
                psychologist such as Jung and Steiner or Jungians and Steinerians,
                have entered the workshop of human resources and the CIA has entered
                the arena of education in order to wallpaper over the source of
                these Etheric realities that each human soul brings with them when
                they incarnate.

                In previous research I have described how the vast origins of active
                and particpatory elemental beings come into service and incarnation
                with the child. Only slowly, and we have described on this list only
                recently how the etheric heart slowly ripens with the astral heart
                and slowly ripens to become the central sun of the I AM heart. Here
                the human personality shines and illuminates themselves down to the
                core of their being. Glocker and Staley on this list have previously
                researched the Etheric Heart and Robert Mason vividly provided
                additonal research to the subject.

                But then the personality absorbs the work of the elemental beings
                who reprsent fire - air - water and earth in ourselves, blood fire,
                lung and heart beat in accord with the precession of 25,920 in synch
                with breathing, water in the terms of how Christ offered that Man
                must be born of Fire and Water or etheric lymphatic mysteries and
                the conquering fire of unconditional Logos illuminated Love which
                brilliantly flames in the human I AM, as that which is seriously
                recorded as the Transfiguration. All these are mighty science
                penetrations of the Cosmic I AM into the micro I Am of Man.

                But to build the bones, to build the blood, personality and
                temperaments that we try to discover in certain "compatibility
                tests" and these come in all sizes and shapes including the 'perfect
                computerized Love Match" and attempt to wallpaper over the mysteries
                that have been outlined above in the human personality, we need to
                be wary of. It really means that you make no effort to build for
                yourselves true etheric insights. So for Jungians and Spiritual
                Science students this is the origin, the starry quarters of our
                higher being have carried with us, active elemental worlds,
                salamandars, sylphs, nymphs and gnomes...Buddha released all these
                wonderful beings when he completed his emancipation of Spirit
                Selfhood on Earth.

                Buddha and Mother/ Dream I

                "One full moon night, sleeping in the palace, the queen had a vivid
                dream. She felt herself being carried away by four devas (spirits)
                to Lake Anotatta in the Himalayas. After bathing her in the lake,
                the devas clothed her in heavenly cloths, anointed her with
                perfumes, and bedecked her with divine flowers. Soon after a white
                elephant, holding a white lotus flower in its trunk, appeared and
                went round her three times, entering her womb through her right
                side. Finally the elephant disappeared and the queen awoke, knowing
                she had been delivered an important message, as the elephant is a
                symbol of greatness in Nepal. The next day, early in the morning,
                the queen told the king about the dream. The king was puzzled and
                sent for some wise men to discover the meaning of the dream."

                http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhism/lifebuddha/1lbud.htm

                Bradford sketches comments;

                Full Moon, watery mysteries, entering her womb through her right
                side, and FOUR DEVAS...Four Devas..Four different elemental beings
                that were the TEMPERAMENTS study for us on this list. Elemental
                Beings who serve the growth and development of the child and in this
                case these Devas are going to be freed up from having served the
                material and personal cohesion of this incarnating being, and it is
                very likely that in that incarnation, Buddha, will achieve what
                Buddhahood means, rank of Angel, and not needing to borrow the
                gnome, sylph, nymph or salamander beings, who have become immensely
                humanized and full of compassion and literally volunteer to serve
                when the Jesus task comes up to imbue the rich fountain of
                compassion in this Jesus Human.

                " Paracelsus added his two cents in the Middle Ages when he
                described human nature as being influenced by four kinds of spirits."

                Bradford comments;

                Four kinds of elemental spirits, four etheric personality assistants
                to serve the unfolding human development, brings us into the area of
                what we are seeing when we are seeing the qualities that we are
                seeing in each human personality.

                Paracelsus was a real doctor. A real seeing human, who did his
                homework and made his bones in mountain herbs, remedies in flowers,
                meadows, stones and stars. Paracelsus was a real Cosmos Taught,
                cosmos trained and probably carried insights from his past into his
                capacities as a human being named Paracelsus. Doctors also hated
                him.

                Humans are meant to see ever deeper into the matrix of human
                behavior. And surprise, what happens when we come across an
                elemental being that assists, and conforms itself to the human mood,
                and mingles between the sanguine sylph like sugar high, or the
                fiery/salamandar, run in our hot blooded adrenal forces that make
                adrenal junkies, firemen, and ambulance drivers so
                interesting...waiting for that FIRE. Then we have the big
                phlegmatic, horrific fast food elemental beings that have turned
                most Americans into chubby rolls of jiggly blubber. You can see
                these horrific ugly elementals parade themselves in TELETUBBY land.
                And of course the gnomish, reclusive, veiled and hooded, even to the
                point of wearing hoods, melancholics.

                What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
                friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
                within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
                exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
                in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
                taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
                our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child should
                not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
                friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent ASAP "Heart
                and Souls".

                Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
                called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
                people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
                air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
                need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
                and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to understand
                anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the dots
                that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
                Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything.

                http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107091/

                "Robert Downey, Jr. plays a young man whose life is going very well:
                he's engaged to Elisabeth Shue, he's got a lot of money working as a
                lawyer or such...until some old friends of his drop in--imaginary
                friends, that is. Sort of. Dead imaginary friends that only he can
                see.

                "Many years ago, some people boarded a bus, including Charles Grodin
                and Tom Sizemore. The bus flipped over a bridge and everyone died,
                going to heaven. But then they came back down involuntarily to
                Downey as a child and stayed with him for a few years. Every time
                they tried to leave him, they were pulled back to him. Until he was
                about eight, then they somehow managed to leave because they were
                influencing his schoolwork and life (I don't remember how they got
                out of it). Now they're back to haunt him again, because they need
                him to help get to heaven.

                holderlin had previously researched:

                "What the true Waldorf
                Teacher would aim for, is that all four of the fire, air, water and
                earth, all four of the Choleric, Sanguine, Phlegmatic or Melancholic
                temperaments would be of use and in balanced animation in every
                child. A true Waldorf Teacher knows that you want maximum mobility
                and that the child will need the buried treasures of the four ethers
                as they move through all the stages of life."

                Other supportive research to advanced psychology:

                "The earliest recorded attempts of humans to explain the differences
                among us are found in ancient astrology. Astrology said that the
                way the heavens were aligned when you were born determined your
                behavior. Astrologers used twelve constellations in the sky and
                four major groupings, symbolized by earth, air, fire, and water.
                They claimed that the movement of the sun, moon, and planets would
                influence your behavior patterns or your fate.

                Thousands of years ago, stars were what they went by, and your
                personality was determined "out there" in the heavens.

                Then, about 400 B.C., Hippocrates (the "Father of Medicine")
                developed a concept of "humours." He introduced a radical idea that
                said personality was determined by elements inside your body, not
                the stars outside your body. For a well-balanced temperament, he
                thought you needed equal amounts of the 4 body fluids: black bile,
                yellow bile, blood, and phlegm. (Delightful, huh?)

                Hippocrates associated his "humours" with Temperament names. Many
                people are familiar with them: Choleric, Phlegmatic, Sanguine, and
                Melancholic. (I'm still fond of using these names sometimes.) So
                that's when the naming game started, and everybody came up with
                their version and their names for these four types. Paracelsus
                added his two cents in the Middle Ages when he described human
                nature as being influenced by four kinds of spirits. Hindu wisdom
                proposes four central desires, and even the American Indian Medicine
                Wheel features four spirit keepers similar to the Temperaments.

                If we study the ways personality have been described over the past
                25 centuries (there are even references in the Bible!), we discover
                a consistent tendency for behavior to sort itself into four basic
                activity patterns. These patterns represent the four Temperaments.
                In other words, there are four common threads:

                Four Personality Types

                Hippocrates (450BC)
                Sanguine
                Melancholic
                Phlegmatic
                Choleric

                Plato (350BC)
                Artistic
                Civic
                Scientific
                Philosophic

                Galen (250AD)
                Excited
                Serious
                Tranquil
                Enthused

                Paracelsus (1530)
                Changeable
                Industrious
                Curious
                Devoted

                Adickes (1905)
                Innovative
                Traditional
                Skeptical
                Doctrinaire

                Spranger (1914)
                Aesthetic
                Economical
                Theoretical
                Ethical

                Kretschmer (1930)
                Hypomanic
                Depressive
                Anaesthetic
                Hyperaesthetic

                Fromm (1947)
                Exploiting
                Hoarding
                Marketing
                Receptive

                Myers (1955)
                Realistic
                Scheduled
                Logical
                Emotional

                Keirsey/Bates (1960s)
                Dionysian
                Epimethean
                Promethean
                Appolonian

                Keirsey (1970s)
                Artisan
                Guardian
                Rational
                Idealist

                "It's important to recognize that Temperament is not just about
                observable behaviors, but rather about behavioral patterns that are
                evidence of underlying motivators -- core psychological needs that
                when not met drive us to get them met (and not always in a positive
                way), core values that drive the choices we make and the positions
                we take on things, and related talents that help us get those needs
                met. These underlying motivators must be inferred from the observed
                behavior patterns over time and in a variety of contexts.

                "The pattern of one's Temperament is there to begin with, like a DNA
                code in its infancy, and it emerges via interaction with the "field"
                or the environment. Thus we all have a core self for which the
                template is there from birth, and then we have a developed self that
                results from the interaction of the context or the situations we
                find ourselves in and the inner push from the core to grow and
                develop in certain ways to fulfill the pattern. The pattern will be
                there always, even though it may sometimes look like other patterns
                on the surface.

                "Temperament refers to the theme of the personality, the
                configuration. It gets at the very essence of what makes us who we
                are. Temperament identifies the basic psychological needs and core
                values that drive our behavior and our choices. Related to these
                basic needs are favorite talents, communication styles, approaches
                to, and perspectives on life."

                http://www.infj.com/INFJ_Temperament.htm
              • holderlin66
                CORRECTIONs: Meaning clearly and literally that opposite our physical sex, our etheric bodies carry an opposite mirror of our physical bodies. Which meant
                Message 7 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
                  CORRECTIONs:

                  " Meaning clearly and literally that
                  opposite our physical sex, our etheric bodies carry an opposite
                  mirror of our physical bodies. Which meant that our etheric bodies
                  are male if we have a female physical body and our etheric bodies
                  are female if we have a male SHOULD READ - PHYSICAL (not etheric)
                  BODY. There is fact you CAN take out of the Jungian scavenger hunt and
                  replace back in the box of Steiner Science where it belongs."
                • Steve Hale
                  ... ... The idea of synchronicity and the concept of eternal recurrence was made popular by Jung, yet he did not understand it to the degree necessary
                  Message 8 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                    <snip>
                    > And all these dispositions can only be based on karma, which is, even
                    > in wooden psychology, a empirical and provable science. And this is
                    > only provable is (for their sake) we abandon the whole notion (for
                    > the time being) of spiritual energy from the planets (though you,
                    > Bradford, and Steve Hale cannot do this) and reckon the idea of
                    > synchroncity.

                    The idea of synchronicity and the concept of eternal recurrence was
                    made popular by Jung, yet he did not understand it to the degree
                    necessary to make it anything more than the typical symbolic-mandalic,
                    mumbo jumbo that you express with your own very typical new-age
                    hodgepodge.

                    Thus, synchronicity from the standpoint of spiritual science concerns
                    the actual and progressive approach that is occurring right now, since
                    the advent of the 5th cultural epoch, for a remembrance of our past
                    lives. You'll find that experiences that come under the banner of
                    Jungian synchronicity concern increasing and extended events wherein
                    the sense of being here before is quite pronounced. I myself had an
                    extended experience of this so-called "deja vu" back in the third grade
                    when my school class went on a field trip to a railway station that had
                    been maintained just as it was at the turn of the 20th century. And I
                    remember being transfixed for the entire time we were there, feeling
                    the sense that I had experienced this very environment before. It was
                    very odd, yet quite a satisfying feeling as well.

                    And what is important about the phenomena of synchronicity concerns the
                    need to make contact with our past lives, as it represents the very
                    substance of what will someday yield the fifth soul development; the
                    anandamayakosha, or bliss sheath, which will serve to convey our
                    immortality to ourselves as a certainty.

                    Steve
                  • carol
                    Bradford spoke of the: elemental being that assists, and conforms itself to the human mood I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact a
                    Message 9 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
                      Bradford spoke of the: "elemental being that assists, and conforms
                      itself to the human mood"

                      I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact
                      a `predominance' of let's say the gnome elemental being within
                      various individuals or is it an external expression of the soul's
                      subconscious encounter with the Ahramanic being, of late:

                      -Young people who extensively or not, body pierce themselves in
                      unaesthetic places. Include to this, gross overuse of tattooing.

                      Does Bradford have an answer?


                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                      <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > In addition to various ways to describe the human being, they
                      amount
                      > to several, lets say for the present, FOUR, integrated forces that
                      > have their origin in the already refined substance of the stars,
                      > that we term Fire, Air, Water and Earth. So the educator and
                      > psychologist such as Jung and Steiner or Jungians and Steinerians,
                      > have entered the workshop of human resources and the CIA has
                      entered
                      > the arena of education in order to wallpaper over the source of
                      > these Etheric realities that each human soul brings with them when
                      > they incarnate.
                      >
                      > In previous research I have described how the vast origins of
                      active
                      > and particpatory elemental beings come into service and
                      incarnation
                      > with the child. Only slowly, and we have described on this list
                      only
                      > recently how the etheric heart slowly ripens with the astral heart
                      > and slowly ripens to become the central sun of the I AM heart.
                      Here
                      > the human personality shines and illuminates themselves down to
                      the
                      > core of their being. Glocker and Staley on this list have
                      previously
                      > researched the Etheric Heart and Robert Mason vividly provided
                      > additonal research to the subject.
                      >
                      > But then the personality absorbs the work of the elemental beings
                      > who reprsent fire - air - water and earth in ourselves, blood
                      fire,
                      > lung and heart beat in accord with the precession of 25,920 in
                      synch
                      > with breathing, water in the terms of how Christ offered that Man
                      > must be born of Fire and Water or etheric lymphatic mysteries and
                      > the conquering fire of unconditional Logos illuminated Love which
                      > brilliantly flames in the human I AM, as that which is seriously
                      > recorded as the Transfiguration. All these are mighty science
                      > penetrations of the Cosmic I AM into the micro I Am of Man.
                      >
                      > But to build the bones, to build the blood, personality and
                      > temperaments that we try to discover in certain "compatibility
                      > tests" and these come in all sizes and shapes including
                      the 'perfect
                      > computerized Love Match" and attempt to wallpaper over the
                      mysteries
                      > that have been outlined above in the human personality, we need to
                      > be wary of. It really means that you make no effort to build for
                      > yourselves true etheric insights. So for Jungians and Spiritual
                      > Science students this is the origin, the starry quarters of our
                      > higher being have carried with us, active elemental worlds,
                      > salamandars, sylphs, nymphs and gnomes...Buddha released all these
                      > wonderful beings when he completed his emancipation of Spirit
                      > Selfhood on Earth.
                      >
                      > Buddha and Mother/ Dream I
                      >
                      > "One full moon night, sleeping in the palace, the queen had a vivid
                      > dream. She felt herself being carried away by four devas (spirits)
                      > to Lake Anotatta in the Himalayas. After bathing her in the lake,
                      > the devas clothed her in heavenly cloths, anointed her with
                      > perfumes, and bedecked her with divine flowers. Soon after a white
                      > elephant, holding a white lotus flower in its trunk, appeared and
                      > went round her three times, entering her womb through her right
                      > side. Finally the elephant disappeared and the queen awoke, knowing
                      > she had been delivered an important message, as the elephant is a
                      > symbol of greatness in Nepal. The next day, early in the morning,
                      > the queen told the king about the dream. The king was puzzled and
                      > sent for some wise men to discover the meaning of the dream."
                      >
                      > http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhism/lifebuddha/1lbud.htm
                      >
                      > Bradford sketches comments;
                      >
                      > Full Moon, watery mysteries, entering her womb through her right
                      > side, and FOUR DEVAS...Four Devas..Four different elemental beings
                      > that were the TEMPERAMENTS study for us on this list. Elemental
                      > Beings who serve the growth and development of the child and in
                      this
                      > case these Devas are going to be freed up from having served the
                      > material and personal cohesion of this incarnating being, and it is
                      > very likely that in that incarnation, Buddha, will achieve what
                      > Buddhahood means, rank of Angel, and not needing to borrow the
                      > gnome, sylph, nymph or salamander beings, who have become immensely
                      > humanized and full of compassion and literally volunteer to serve
                      > when the Jesus task comes up to imbue the rich fountain of
                      > compassion in this Jesus Human.
                      >
                      > " Paracelsus added his two cents in the Middle Ages when he
                      > described human nature as being influenced by four kinds of
                      spirits."
                      >
                      > Bradford comments;
                      >
                      > Four kinds of elemental spirits, four etheric personality
                      assistants
                      > to serve the unfolding human development, brings us into the area
                      of
                      > what we are seeing when we are seeing the qualities that we are
                      > seeing in each human personality.
                      >
                      > Paracelsus was a real doctor. A real seeing human, who did his
                      > homework and made his bones in mountain herbs, remedies in flowers,
                      > meadows, stones and stars. Paracelsus was a real Cosmos Taught,
                      > cosmos trained and probably carried insights from his past into his
                      > capacities as a human being named Paracelsus. Doctors also hated
                      > him.
                      >
                      > Humans are meant to see ever deeper into the matrix of human
                      > behavior. And surprise, what happens when we come across an
                      > elemental being that assists, and conforms itself to the human
                      mood,
                      > and mingles between the sanguine sylph like sugar high, or the
                      > fiery/salamandar, run in our hot blooded adrenal forces that make
                      > adrenal junkies, firemen, and ambulance drivers so
                      > interesting...waiting for that FIRE. Then we have the big
                      > phlegmatic, horrific fast food elemental beings that have turned
                      > most Americans into chubby rolls of jiggly blubber. You can see
                      > these horrific ugly elementals parade themselves in TELETUBBY land.
                      > And of course the gnomish, reclusive, veiled and hooded, even to
                      the
                      > point of wearing hoods, melancholics.
                      >
                      > What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
                      > friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
                      > within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
                      > exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
                      > in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
                      > taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
                      > our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child
                      should
                      > not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
                      > friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent
                      ASAP "Heart
                      > and Souls".
                      >
                      > Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
                      > called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
                      > people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
                      > air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
                      > need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
                      > and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to
                      understand
                      > anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the
                      dots
                      > that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
                      > Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything.
                      >
                      > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107091/
                      >
                      > "Robert Downey, Jr. plays a young man whose life is going very
                      well:
                      > he's engaged to Elisabeth Shue, he's got a lot of money working as
                      a
                      > lawyer or such...until some old friends of his drop in--imaginary
                      > friends, that is. Sort of. Dead imaginary friends that only he can
                      > see.
                      >
                      > "Many years ago, some people boarded a bus, including Charles
                      Grodin
                      > and Tom Sizemore. The bus flipped over a bridge and everyone died,
                      > going to heaven. But then they came back down involuntarily to
                      > Downey as a child and stayed with him for a few years. Every time
                      > they tried to leave him, they were pulled back to him. Until he was
                      > about eight, then they somehow managed to leave because they were
                      > influencing his schoolwork and life (I don't remember how they got
                      > out of it). Now they're back to haunt him again, because they need
                      > him to help get to heaven.
                      >
                      > holderlin had previously researched:
                      >
                      > "What the true Waldorf
                      > Teacher would aim for, is that all four of the fire, air, water and
                      > earth, all four of the Choleric, Sanguine, Phlegmatic or
                      Melancholic
                      > temperaments would be of use and in balanced animation in every
                      > child. A true Waldorf Teacher knows that you want maximum mobility
                      > and that the child will need the buried treasures of the four
                      ethers
                      > as they move through all the stages of life."
                      >
                      > Other supportive research to advanced psychology:
                      >
                      > "The earliest recorded attempts of humans to explain the
                      differences
                      > among us are found in ancient astrology. Astrology said that the
                      > way the heavens were aligned when you were born determined your
                      > behavior. Astrologers used twelve constellations in the sky and
                      > four major groupings, symbolized by earth, air, fire, and water.
                      > They claimed that the movement of the sun, moon, and planets would
                      > influence your behavior patterns or your fate.
                      >
                      > Thousands of years ago, stars were what they went by, and your
                      > personality was determined "out there" in the heavens.
                      >
                      > Then, about 400 B.C., Hippocrates (the "Father of Medicine")
                      > developed a concept of "humours." He introduced a radical idea that
                      > said personality was determined by elements inside your body, not
                      > the stars outside your body. For a well-balanced temperament, he
                      > thought you needed equal amounts of the 4 body fluids: black bile,
                      > yellow bile, blood, and phlegm. (Delightful, huh?)
                      >
                      > Hippocrates associated his "humours" with Temperament names. Many
                      > people are familiar with them: Choleric, Phlegmatic, Sanguine, and
                      > Melancholic. (I'm still fond of using these names sometimes.) So
                      > that's when the naming game started, and everybody came up with
                      > their version and their names for these four types. Paracelsus
                      > added his two cents in the Middle Ages when he described human
                      > nature as being influenced by four kinds of spirits. Hindu wisdom
                      > proposes four central desires, and even the American Indian
                      Medicine
                      > Wheel features four spirit keepers similar to the Temperaments.
                      >
                      > If we study the ways personality have been described over the past
                      > 25 centuries (there are even references in the Bible!), we discover
                      > a consistent tendency for behavior to sort itself into four basic
                      > activity patterns. These patterns represent the four Temperaments.
                      > In other words, there are four common threads:
                      >
                      > Four Personality Types
                      >
                      > Hippocrates (450BC)
                      > Sanguine
                      > Melancholic
                      > Phlegmatic
                      > Choleric
                      >
                      > Plato (350BC)
                      > Artistic
                      > Civic
                      > Scientific
                      > Philosophic
                      >
                      > Galen (250AD)
                      > Excited
                      > Serious
                      > Tranquil
                      > Enthused
                      >
                      > Paracelsus (1530)
                      > Changeable
                      > Industrious
                      > Curious
                      > Devoted
                      >
                      > Adickes (1905)
                      > Innovative
                      > Traditional
                      > Skeptical
                      > Doctrinaire
                      >
                      > Spranger (1914)
                      > Aesthetic
                      > Economical
                      > Theoretical
                      > Ethical
                      >
                      > Kretschmer (1930)
                      > Hypomanic
                      > Depressive
                      > Anaesthetic
                      > Hyperaesthetic
                      >
                      > Fromm (1947)
                      > Exploiting
                      > Hoarding
                      > Marketing
                      > Receptive
                      >
                      > Myers (1955)
                      > Realistic
                      > Scheduled
                      > Logical
                      > Emotional
                      >
                      > Keirsey/Bates (1960s)
                      > Dionysian
                      > Epimethean
                      > Promethean
                      > Appolonian
                      >
                      > Keirsey (1970s)
                      > Artisan
                      > Guardian
                      > Rational
                      > Idealist
                      >
                      > "It's important to recognize that Temperament is not just about
                      > observable behaviors, but rather about behavioral patterns that are
                      > evidence of underlying motivators -- core psychological needs that
                      > when not met drive us to get them met (and not always in a positive
                      > way), core values that drive the choices we make and the positions
                      > we take on things, and related talents that help us get those needs
                      > met. These underlying motivators must be inferred from the observed
                      > behavior patterns over time and in a variety of contexts.
                      >
                      > "The pattern of one's Temperament is there to begin with, like a
                      DNA
                      > code in its infancy, and it emerges via interaction with
                      the "field"
                      > or the environment. Thus we all have a core self for which the
                      > template is there from birth, and then we have a developed self
                      that
                      > results from the interaction of the context or the situations we
                      > find ourselves in and the inner push from the core to grow and
                      > develop in certain ways to fulfill the pattern. The pattern will be
                      > there always, even though it may sometimes look like other patterns
                      > on the surface.
                      >
                      > "Temperament refers to the theme of the personality, the
                      > configuration. It gets at the very essence of what makes us who we
                      > are. Temperament identifies the basic psychological needs and core
                      > values that drive our behavior and our choices. Related to these
                      > basic needs are favorite talents, communication styles, approaches
                      > to, and perspectives on life."
                      >
                      > http://www.infj.com/INFJ_Temperament.htm
                      >
                    • opetha
                      Hello Bradford OK, I understand what you re saying if only you wouldn t go so far ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of that
                      Message 10 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
                        Hello Bradford

                        OK, I understand what you're saying if only you wouldn't go so far
                        ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of that
                        psychological type.

                        Jung's teaching was empirical as possible, he did not want to venture
                        into the realm of spiritual sciences because he would leave mankind
                        behind, which is what you tend to do. I don't agree with the notion
                        that analytical psychology is a "scavenger hunt", the truth is that
                        Jung and Steinar are like two sides of a coin, Jung of the
                        unconscious and Steinar of the concious, and that you are biased
                        because you represent, not a higher thinking, but a different HALF,
                        and this is an empirical and provable thing (please don't argue with
                        this--I know exactly what you will say). The set of four psychologicl
                        types in Jung is not based on the same type of conscious thinking as
                        all those quartets you gave me, and , unfortunately, is understood
                        even less by spiritual thinking other philosophies.

                        [I hope this comes out well in the post....]

                        THINKING
                        *
                        *
                        *
                        INTUITION****************SENSATION
                        *
                        *
                        *
                        FEELING

                        These are not vague concepts as in the elements and biles.
                        Jung says of your THINKING type:

                        "..there is still a another form of negative thinking, which at first
                        glance might not be recognized as such, and that is THEOSOPHICAL
                        THINKING, which today is rapidly spreading in all parts of the world,
                        presumably in reaction to materialism of the recent past.
                        Theosophical thinkng has an air that is not in the least reductive
                        [that is, you will not come down to my level!!--Godot] since it
                        exalts everything to a transcendental and world-embracing idea. A
                        dream, for instance, is no longer just a dream, but an experience 'on
                        another plane.' The herethereto fact of telepathy is very simply
                        explained in 'vibrations' passing from one person to another. An
                        ordinary nervous complaint is explained by the fact that something
                        has collided with my 'astral body'.....We have only to open a
                        theosophical book to be overwhelmed by the realization that
                        everything is already explained, and that 'spiritual science' has
                        left no enigmas unsolved. But, at bottom, this type of thinking is
                        just as negative as materialistic thinking. When the latter regards
                        psychology as chemical changes in the ganglia or ther extrusion and
                        retraction of cell-pseudopodia or as internal secretion, this is as
                        much a superstition as theosophy. The only thing is that theosophy
                        reduces everything to eastern metaphysics.....Not only are both
                        methods of explanation futile, they are actually destructive, because
                        by diverting interest away from the main issue....to imaginary
                        vibrations, they hamper any serious investigation of the problem by
                        bogus explanation. Either kind of thinking is sterile and
                        sterilizing. Its negative quality is due to the fact it is so
                        indescribably cheap." -Psychological Types, X.2

                        This cross of function types is an innate truth, not a conditioned
                        one by meditation which any other quaternary of types would be.
                        The "theosophical" thinking is not the I AM you think it is because
                        it is the outer arm of this cross. You and Steve have written so
                        much, but to me it doesn't quite speak my language, you use many
                        metpahors and "force" words to prove you are excilerated, but in bias
                        you will not reckon with the other half of mankind, like lucifer.
                        Don't get me wrong, I am one wanting to develop my spiritual
                        integrity, but it doesn't come quite as you think.

                        You call me a "scavenger" and Mr. Hale says my talking is "new-age
                        hodge-podge" (hang on !!--I thought you were the new-agers), which
                        shows you are very combative in your own personalitistic ways and
                        defensive of your drives, almost adolescent--and I have nothing
                        against this, I will try to be fair but I'm still worried that you
                        are UNABLE to be; and only stress this because, afterall, if you want
                        to communicate with mankind you had better be considerate and not
                        talk in the language you do of warped "power-words" to your own kind,
                        and to your paying audience, because "mankind", as you maybe use that
                        term, will NOT listen to you if you go so far ahead of them. What the
                        other half of us CAN experience is our own unknown soul, which is the
                        empirical unconscious (to reiterate Jung and Steinar are quite the
                        opposites, Steinar was equally right because he had no
                        unconsciousness, and what he did know of unconsciousness was
                        conditioned by conscious metaphor and not by deductive reasoning---
                        i.e. the dream-world is the "macrocosm" and not an instancing of sub-
                        conscious complexes).

                        A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school and
                        shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use him as
                        an example of someone who can be cured by analytical psychology, but
                        NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the leaps of faith and
                        consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars until he confronts
                        himself on the Earth, no matter how "scavangering" this will be to
                        him. You want to propound your science through cosmic rhetoric more
                        than you want to heal, is this not so?

                        Other (fundamental) thinking types with this type of "be all end all"
                        thinking include Hitler and, on TV today, Docter Zakir Naik of the
                        IRF and who claims that all sciences were written in the Q'URAN
                        before they were discovered, proving God's greatness (and also that
                        the Q'URAN is the most-divine poetry ever written !!). Both are great
                        extraverted talkers because they BELEIVE 100% what they are saying is
                        true, and the audience get cosmic about this, and propaganda rears
                        its head. The unconsciouis has innate and fundamental referencing
                        that can counteract any rarified thinking--but you anthroposophists
                        cannot understand my language because the feeling-tone behnd yours.

                        I take it my use of the word "karma" to you was a scavaging. I could
                        equally say the same of Steinar's use of the word "unconscious". The
                        natal horoscope progressed at 1/360th of its normal speed shows the
                        symbols that, bad or good, will be activated in our course of life.
                        These are synchronicities in so far that they give shape, heiroglyp
                        and/or colour to unconscious archetypes without such, and give them a
                        linear qualification. This is the best argument for the "spiritual
                        sciences", this method of "psychological-astrology", because it is
                        provable on the subjective plane and not on the objective. It is not
                        scavaging in the sense that Jung is stealing something from your
                        school, you have to be considerate and pay heed to this your opposite
                        and compensator. The mandala was not new-age hodge-podge, it was a
                        glimpse into the innateness of that horoscope and its centre as the
                        SELF (or Brahm, the aura eminating from a plant was just one of the
                        baised illusions Buddha destroyed).

                        I would love to see aura and travel on the astral planet like you
                        might do (I have already innitiated SOME magical virtues, still with
                        the empirical unconsious undernieth, and still with my consideration
                        of your mind set and abandining my own at those instances) but if I
                        advance in this area it may not be because you have taught me but
                        because I have taught myself. It may be because I am British and have
                        not the type of whispy heads that you Americans have, but I cannot
                        affiliate myself with something so biased and off centre and that is
                        too depserate to convince like olf Adolf and Doctor Naik. The astral
                        rewards are one thing--yes, I know that, but the abandonement of the
                        emprirical unconscious (with mankind aong with it) is quite another.
                        I will stick to my raja yoga and destroy your lucifer AND my ahriman.

                        With love,
                        Godot.








                        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@> wrote:
                        > <snip>
                        > > And all these dispositions can only be based on karma, which is,
                        even
                        > > in wooden psychology, a empirical and provable science. And this
                        is
                        > > only provable is (for their sake) we abandon the whole notion
                        (for
                        > > the time being) of spiritual energy from the planets (though you,
                        > > Bradford, and Steve Hale cannot do this) and reckon the idea of
                        > > synchroncity.
                        >
                        > The idea of synchronicity and the concept of eternal recurrence was
                        > made popular by Jung, yet he did not understand it to the degree
                        > necessary to make it anything more than the typical symbolic-
                        mandalic,
                        > mumbo jumbo that you express with your own very typical new-age
                        > hodgepodge.
                        >
                        > Thus, synchronicity from the standpoint of spiritual science
                        concerns
                        > the actual and progressive approach that is occurring right now,
                        since
                        > the advent of the 5th cultural epoch, for a remembrance of our past
                        > lives. You'll find that experiences that come under the banner of
                        > Jungian synchronicity concern increasing and extended events
                        wherein
                        > the sense of being here before is quite pronounced. I myself had
                        an
                        > extended experience of this so-called "deja vu" back in the third
                        grade
                        > when my school class went on a field trip to a railway station that
                        had
                        > been maintained just as it was at the turn of the 20th century.
                        And I
                        > remember being transfixed for the entire time we were there,
                        feeling
                        > the sense that I had experienced this very environment before. It
                        was
                        > very odd, yet quite a satisfying feeling as well.
                        >
                        > And what is important about the phenomena of synchronicity concerns
                        the
                        > need to make contact with our past lives, as it represents the very
                        > substance of what will someday yield the fifth soul development;
                        the
                        > anandamayakosha, or bliss sheath, which will serve to convey our
                        > immortality to ourselves as a certainty.
                        >
                        > Steve
                        >
                      • holderlin66
                        carol wrote: I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact a `predominance of let s say the gnome elemental being within various individuals
                        Message 11 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
                          carol wrote:

                          "I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact
                          a `predominance' of let's say the gnome elemental being within
                          various individuals or is it an external expression of the soul's
                          subconscious encounter" encounters....

                          Bradford comments;

                          Tatoo's are fads. But the attraction to being considered 'special'
                          because you have a groovy tattoo is based mostly on the serious
                          melancholic temperament. However because of the nature of
                          faddishness, it is 'cool' to have body this and body that which is
                          meaningless to the soul content. The soul content that these
                          abstract soul scavengers think is cool is merely a fad like high
                          school girls wearing very short navel exposed tee-shirts. I'm a
                          teacher for heaven's sake, this is all unessential soul trivia. Just
                          like rap, and baggy shorts and dressin like some punk gangsta. It
                          means literally ' 0 '. None of these fads have secured any type of
                          soul perception.

                          The human soul when it comes into incarnation brings with it a
                          suitcase full of fire, air, water, earth, personality features and
                          traits that are true elemental servants. These eventually become
                          modified well shaped plastic or mobile features of the animated
                          personality. Once again please note, these beings are part of what
                          we carry within our I AM and karmic package when we incarnate. These
                          beings assist us and become integrated into our personality make-up
                          until what we see as the type of personality, with their four
                          traits, no longer reveals to the eye the elemental, yet the
                          elemental is in there.

                          Now gnomish, and Ahrimanic greys and predominating depressive
                          elemental beings that form the melancholic dominating personality
                          trait can be part of the actual ahrimanized and corrupted inner
                          vision of the soul that are felt when there are rumors of alien
                          Abductees. However the outline I am offering is the solid basis of
                          what we carry from the spiritual world into physical incarnation and
                          what Buddha carried and freed up and transformed and what we are
                          assigned to transform. Part of our job is to humanized and free up
                          these elemental servants as Buddha did, when we complete our
                          development as humans. We don't get released from incarnation, from
                          physical matter if have not acknowledged and learned of these four
                          beings and forces in our nature as operative cosmic servants.

                          Sanguine Type:

                          The Sylph and the sylph type lends the personality terms like dumb
                          blonde or shop till you drop joy boys and sunshine girls. Swooping,
                          lightness, fun loving and generally in a sunshine mood, the sylph
                          would tend to lift the human spirit, bring a smile to a sad face and
                          when a little child is in a crying jag, sometimes it is the colorful
                          sylph aspect of hidden temperament that must come out of the child
                          and the child also gets to know, learns to get to know what that
                          laughter triggers and how to understand laughter as a visitation and
                          entrance into the sylph style of behavior that has to do with Air
                          and Light. Air, light and joy as part of the old sylph being that
                          has come with the child from the spiritual world, as part of its
                          etheric foundation and can be used as part of its personality trait
                          has also a downside.

                          Sometimes when this personality trait dominates, we understand that
                          the personality, the human personality is being protected by the
                          sylph and the human being hides within the sylph light because the
                          darkness all around the soul damages the human child and the
                          darkness around that it saw when a child forced it to hide within
                          the Sylph lightness, the unbearable lightness of being. And we can
                          see how this lightness, lack of depth becomes a sort of personality
                          crutch for the child as he/she develops. A place where no hard
                          thoughts harm and people are given pleasure instead of pain to
                          disguise their hurts. A lot of the sylph or sanguine natured adults
                          have arisen due to childhood abuses in one way or another.

                          http://www.wam.umd.edu/~llsp/sylph.jpg

                          holderlin wrote:

                          "What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
                          friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
                          within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
                          exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
                          in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
                          taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
                          our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child should
                          not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
                          friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent ASAP "Heart
                          and Souls".

                          "Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
                          called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
                          people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
                          air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
                          need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
                          and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to understand
                          anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the dots
                          that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
                          Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything."

                          Phlegmatic Type:

                          The water nixie and watery nymph enjoices the juices, the tastes and
                          the good meals of sitting at fine dining. How do the wines taste?
                          What springs and vineyards yield the finest wines? What makes you
                          salivate and gets the Water Nymph/Phlegmatic side of your nature to
                          rise up out of your physical body, your physical stone base and
                          lends you the mood he/she brings forward?

                          Teletubby's are the obnoxious little demon nymphs that have been
                          fostered by a fast food, phat America, false saliviating taste-bud
                          blubber, bouncing, over weight America, from children to their flaky
                          trailer park parents, have been made into numbed, television rotted,
                          staring vegtables, which is to insult the fine work that the water
                          spirits do in vegetables.

                          Who fooled the Nymph? Who has polluted her cosmic tastes, our
                          intimate human cosmic waters, that Thetis, mother of Achilles is
                          famous for? Monsanto and fully failed, misleading and whored taste-
                          buds that have marketed supermarket crap that children must eat as
                          fads, phat, and foul corporate profits to sustain their lies. I can
                          tell you that Sanguine, Choleric and Melancholic natures are more
                          prized in our fast paced society than the phlegmatic, steady, nearly
                          photographic brain of the overweight phlegmatic is.

                          http://snowbarsk.autoklad.com/images/zasimovich/sculpture/5.jpg

                          Choleric type;

                          Now the hot blooded and fiery choleric, can be found in Emergency
                          Rooms and in Medics everywhere. They are not always fiery red-headed
                          carrot tops that always stare at you with 'come on, go ahead, I can
                          take ya' faces. That fire appears in the soft embering glow of
                          Steiner's in depth lectures, fiery Michael forces supercharged his
                          blood, where the warmth in his Iron and Light ignited spirit flares
                          that revealed clarity where there was gathering darkness. His words
                          rang as consecrated light in all directions. Fission, fusion and
                          Iron centered sun spirituality cooked Steiner's rich dishes with a
                          warm, kindled, human blaze.

                          But then again, on the battle front of life, saving lives, from fire
                          men and women to police and swat teams to search and rescue on the
                          high seas, to special forces teams, you hear the choleric
                          shout, 'GO, GO, GO, GO!'. Adrenaline junkies can be found working
                          rush hours in restaurants, on the cooking line in the heat of the
                          battle, where the grills spit fire right in their faces and they
                          spit back. Choleric fire is in all of us, even Tiger Woods breaks
                          from his Zen mode to get really pissed off sometimes.

                          "Some people – and all narcissists – are addicted to excitement, to
                          the adrenaline rush, to the danger inevitably and invariably
                          involved. They are the adrenaline junkies. All narcissists are
                          adrenaline junkies – but not all adrenaline junkies are narcissists.

                          Thus, an adrenaline junkie must have a supply, a feed, which always
                          comes with invented excitement, real or invented drama or emotional
                          drama queens that have choleric forces in their feeling life. We can
                          understand that choleric forces or any of the other temperaments can
                          lodge themselves, not only in the will, but in the feeling, and in
                          the region of mental aggression. On the one hand solid Choleric
                          types are described as closer to the ground, Napoleonic and over
                          confident. In a pinch you know that a Choleric will cover your back,
                          fight to the death and remain in the game though anxiety is
                          everywhere and the odds against you are everywhere a great choleric
                          will be the last face you see before you pass out.

                          When unable to secure "normal" Narcissistic Supply – adulation,
                          recognition, fame, celebrity, notoriety, infamy, affirmation, or
                          mere attention – the adrenaline junkie resorts to "abnormal"
                          attention grabbers. He tries to obtain his drug – the thrills, the
                          good feeling that comes with adrenalin – by behaving recklessly, by
                          succumbing to substance abuse, or by living dangerously.

                          Such narcissists – faced with a chronic state of deficient
                          Narcissistic Supply – become criminals, or race drivers, or
                          gamblers, or soldiers, or investigative journalists. They defy
                          authority. They avoid safety, routine and boredom – no safe sex, no
                          financial prudence, no stable marriage or career. They become
                          peripatetic, change jobs, or lovers, or vocations, or avocations, or
                          residences, or friendships often.

                          But sometimes even these extreme and demonstrative steps are not
                          enough. When confronted with a boring, routine existence – with a
                          chronic and permanent inability to secure Narcissistic Supply and
                          excitement – these people compensate by inventing thrills where
                          there are none."

                          http://phopro.ie/earthspirit/fire_salamander.jpg

                          http://www.matrifocus.com/IMB05/images/fire-salamander-sm.jpg

                          Melancholic type;

                          The Melancholic earth dominated, nihilistic, Columbine depression,
                          Nietzsche fixated, hooded rapper has a sharp wit. Often sees the
                          bitter edges, the flaws, the inconsistencies and certainly
                          gravitates and finds its deepest kindled light out of darkness. You
                          could look at how Rembrandt took the darkness and found in it golden
                          hues...as highly interesting.

                          The compression of darkness and the usual Adam's family values of
                          tatoos, dark flesh piercings, pain, S&M, torture, the daughter in
                          the film "BeetleJuice" dressed in black and seeing dead people bring
                          the soul into connection with the current cultural gesture of
                          XXXXXtreme melancholic and enchained gnomes who must be sentenced,
                          as the roots of trees, and mines are strip mined, and earth is
                          carved up, the gnomes are sucked into a horrificaly depressing
                          computerization of human intellectual forces.

                          The Earth spirit gnome, ruled the biting wit of intellectual forces
                          and now lurking in the mines and dark regions of the soul are
                          Ahriman's horrific hordes. And sucked into the electro magnitic
                          sphere, gnomes are compressed into Internet darkness where humans
                          fail to see the depth and light that is in the intellect, the same
                          as they refuse and fail to see the depths and ROOTS of the universe,
                          the soul and the Spirit as the roots of a great Tree of the I AM,
                          Yggdrassil. Wagner and Tolkien felt the dark tug of the gnome
                          community, wiped out and forced into elemental slave labor within
                          the the electronic, hi-tech communications systems, inventions and
                          military experimentation.

                          Vast bacteria, watery, laser, and hi-tech atomic table forces are
                          being whored, harnassed demonized in labs and forced into elemental
                          labor and etheric torture to bring epidemics, annhilation by fire,
                          radiation, and disrupting earthquakes, tidal waves and many of them
                          now merely human generated for selfless political ends from the far
                          west. Because the human sylph, nymph, salamander and gnome forces in
                          the healing processes of the human being are being trained literally
                          as Tolkien described how the elves became Orcs. But the joke is on
                          humanity. For these beings are literally ripping into the cosmic
                          human model and the safeguards of the human healing systems by labs
                          that the American people are paying for so that the surface
                          intellect can remain in its ahrimanized slumber. This was not the
                          Agel of Light our children came to participate in, but the its
                          horrific opposite and it is U, U who sit there and read these things
                          that have failed to IMAGINE clearly what is going on.

                          This mighty potential and sacrifice of the melancholic gomes, where
                          humans cannot think and they merely become the darkness, become
                          nihilistic, become dangerous in their own stewing darkness, enjoy
                          their selfish dangers, dark drugs and brooding faddishness...shames
                          Hamlet and Hamlet is our own Consciousness Soul. Our Consciousness
                          Soul does have a gesture and certainly the black suited Dr. Steiner
                          and that sort of lecture fad, wouldn't have our usual melancholics
                          and deep thinkers, now parading around in Hawaiian shirts now would
                          they? Well they should play against type and certainly Steiner would
                          not be all tatooed with dark coal tints under his eyes for that
                          vampire effect, if he walked into a room today. But Anthros still
                          see it that way. Anthros hardly would trust an infusion of happy
                          rollicking Michaelites pulling up in their Harley's to give
                          conferences and talks. They have to be conservative, sober and
                          unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings
                          latent in the Anthro, because Anthros just want to gawk and stare at
                          the old b/w photos of Der Doctor, instead of revealing the bubbling
                          life of the new Etheric Worlds. Eh?

                          http://www.jazlink.com/jazlbums/England/HPIM0074.sized.jpg

                          http://www.sculpturebyspirit.com/door.html
                        • Steve Hale
                          ... that ... Yes, Bradford writes alot, just as you write alot. Actually, I don t see much of a difference. Now, I try to write in brief because it serves to
                          Message 12 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
                            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hello Bradford
                            >
                            > OK, I understand what you're saying if only you wouldn't go so far
                            > ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of
                            that
                            > psychological type.

                            Yes, Bradford writes alot, just as you write alot. Actually, I
                            don't see much of a difference. Now, I try to write in brief
                            because it serves to catch the eye, and maybe gets a response, which
                            is what I look for. I said you wrote "hodgepodge" because you were
                            pulling out all stops to write 'new-age' dribble, which some
                            possibly could have found offensive. In fact, I found your initial
                            post offensive and arrogant. And that is why I didn't respond to
                            indications of Steinerian concepts from his "Foundations of
                            Esotericism" lectures from 1905.

                            You are quite right in that Jung and Steiner represent a polarity;
                            just as Kant and Steiner represent a polarity from a philosophical
                            standpoint. This has all been gone over before, on that other
                            little ship called the s.s. minnow. Jung is to psychology what Kant
                            is to philosophy in terms of limits to knowledge and perception.
                            And Rudolf Steiner overcame these bounds for those that seek to
                            overcome such limits in order to go further in terms of knowledge
                            and being.

                            Esotericism and its relationship to modern thought is what interests
                            me. Spiritual science exists in order to extend thinking and
                            knowledge into the causal realm that stands behind external
                            phenomena. But you have to take up the study in earnest, just as
                            you have taken up your study of Jungian principles according to a
                            collective unconsciousness that is quite attractive to people today
                            because it leaves the mysteries and enigmas alone; except to engage
                            in conservative speculation about what things mean in the greater
                            course of events.

                            Thus, synchonicity and its phenomenal representation is a fact that
                            only spiritual science can truly penetrate into its causality as an
                            increasing experience of spiritual necessity. I didn't want to lose
                            that important point.

                            Steve
                          • carol
                            Thanks so much! As for this; They have to be conservative, sober and unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings latent in the Anthro,
                            Message 13 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
                              Thanks so much!

                              As for this;
                              They have to be conservative, sober and
                              unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings
                              latent in the Anthro, because Anthros just want to gawk and stare at
                              the old b/w photos of Der Doctor, instead of revealing the bubbling
                              life of the new Etheric Worlds. Eh?

                              I beleive it's changing with the younger generation's influence but
                              I agree with you, I was puzzled by it a few decades ago when I
                              apprached the 'community'; and also worth mentioning is the setbacks
                              at remaining dependent on group development. You're taliking to a
                              former minor Gothic who lived by Anthroposophy but could never feel
                              safe nor individual creative freedom anywhere near the 'community'.

                              I have the impression that it's changing; the few Anthros that I do
                              know have matured and are past their pretentious and competitive
                              years. Like what occurs within the general population, once you get
                              past a certain age, it's easier to appreciate one another.

                              Carol.




                              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                              <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > carol wrote:
                              >
                              > "I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact
                              > a `predominance' of let's say the gnome elemental being within
                              > various individuals or is it an external expression of the soul's
                              > subconscious encounter" encounters....
                              >
                              > Bradford comments;
                              >
                              > Tatoo's are fads. But the attraction to being considered 'special'
                              > because you have a groovy tattoo is based mostly on the serious
                              > melancholic temperament. However because of the nature of
                              > faddishness, it is 'cool' to have body this and body that which is
                              > meaningless to the soul content. The soul content that these
                              > abstract soul scavengers think is cool is merely a fad like high
                              > school girls wearing very short navel exposed tee-shirts. I'm a
                              > teacher for heaven's sake, this is all unessential soul trivia.
                              Just
                              > like rap, and baggy shorts and dressin like some punk gangsta. It
                              > means literally ' 0 '. None of these fads have secured any type
                              of
                              > soul perception.
                              >
                              > The human soul when it comes into incarnation brings with it a
                              > suitcase full of fire, air, water, earth, personality features and
                              > traits that are true elemental servants. These eventually become
                              > modified well shaped plastic or mobile features of the animated
                              > personality. Once again please note, these beings are part of what
                              > we carry within our I AM and karmic package when we incarnate.
                              These
                              > beings assist us and become integrated into our personality make-
                              up
                              > until what we see as the type of personality, with their four
                              > traits, no longer reveals to the eye the elemental, yet the
                              > elemental is in there.
                              >
                              > Now gnomish, and Ahrimanic greys and predominating depressive
                              > elemental beings that form the melancholic dominating personality
                              > trait can be part of the actual ahrimanized and corrupted inner
                              > vision of the soul that are felt when there are rumors of alien
                              > Abductees. However the outline I am offering is the solid basis of
                              > what we carry from the spiritual world into physical incarnation
                              and
                              > what Buddha carried and freed up and transformed and what we are
                              > assigned to transform. Part of our job is to humanized and free up
                              > these elemental servants as Buddha did, when we complete our
                              > development as humans. We don't get released from incarnation,
                              from
                              > physical matter if have not acknowledged and learned of these four
                              > beings and forces in our nature as operative cosmic servants.
                              >
                              > Sanguine Type:
                              >
                              > The Sylph and the sylph type lends the personality terms like dumb
                              > blonde or shop till you drop joy boys and sunshine girls. Swooping,
                              > lightness, fun loving and generally in a sunshine mood, the sylph
                              > would tend to lift the human spirit, bring a smile to a sad face
                              and
                              > when a little child is in a crying jag, sometimes it is the
                              colorful
                              > sylph aspect of hidden temperament that must come out of the child
                              > and the child also gets to know, learns to get to know what that
                              > laughter triggers and how to understand laughter as a visitation
                              and
                              > entrance into the sylph style of behavior that has to do with Air
                              > and Light. Air, light and joy as part of the old sylph being that
                              > has come with the child from the spiritual world, as part of its
                              > etheric foundation and can be used as part of its personality trait
                              > has also a downside.
                              >
                              > Sometimes when this personality trait dominates, we understand that
                              > the personality, the human personality is being protected by the
                              > sylph and the human being hides within the sylph light because the
                              > darkness all around the soul damages the human child and the
                              > darkness around that it saw when a child forced it to hide within
                              > the Sylph lightness, the unbearable lightness of being. And we can
                              > see how this lightness, lack of depth becomes a sort of personality
                              > crutch for the child as he/she develops. A place where no hard
                              > thoughts harm and people are given pleasure instead of pain to
                              > disguise their hurts. A lot of the sylph or sanguine natured adults
                              > have arisen due to childhood abuses in one way or another.
                              >
                              > http://www.wam.umd.edu/~llsp/sylph.jpg
                              >
                              > holderlin wrote:
                              >
                              > "What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
                              > friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
                              > within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
                              > exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
                              > in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
                              > taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
                              > our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child
                              should
                              > not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
                              > friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent
                              ASAP "Heart
                              > and Souls".
                              >
                              > "Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
                              > called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
                              > people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
                              > air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
                              > need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
                              > and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to
                              understand
                              > anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the
                              dots
                              > that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
                              > Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything."
                              >
                              > Phlegmatic Type:
                              >
                              > The water nixie and watery nymph enjoices the juices, the tastes
                              and
                              > the good meals of sitting at fine dining. How do the wines taste?
                              > What springs and vineyards yield the finest wines? What makes you
                              > salivate and gets the Water Nymph/Phlegmatic side of your nature to
                              > rise up out of your physical body, your physical stone base and
                              > lends you the mood he/she brings forward?
                              >
                              > Teletubby's are the obnoxious little demon nymphs that have been
                              > fostered by a fast food, phat America, false saliviating taste-bud
                              > blubber, bouncing, over weight America, from children to their
                              flaky
                              > trailer park parents, have been made into numbed, television
                              rotted,
                              > staring vegtables, which is to insult the fine work that the water
                              > spirits do in vegetables.
                              >
                              > Who fooled the Nymph? Who has polluted her cosmic tastes, our
                              > intimate human cosmic waters, that Thetis, mother of Achilles is
                              > famous for? Monsanto and fully failed, misleading and whored taste-
                              > buds that have marketed supermarket crap that children must eat as
                              > fads, phat, and foul corporate profits to sustain their lies. I can
                              > tell you that Sanguine, Choleric and Melancholic natures are more
                              > prized in our fast paced society than the phlegmatic, steady,
                              nearly
                              > photographic brain of the overweight phlegmatic is.
                              >
                              > http://snowbarsk.autoklad.com/images/zasimovich/sculpture/5.jpg
                              >
                              > Choleric type;
                              >
                              > Now the hot blooded and fiery choleric, can be found in Emergency
                              > Rooms and in Medics everywhere. They are not always fiery red-
                              headed
                              > carrot tops that always stare at you with 'come on, go ahead, I can
                              > take ya' faces. That fire appears in the soft embering glow of
                              > Steiner's in depth lectures, fiery Michael forces supercharged his
                              > blood, where the warmth in his Iron and Light ignited spirit flares
                              > that revealed clarity where there was gathering darkness. His words
                              > rang as consecrated light in all directions. Fission, fusion and
                              > Iron centered sun spirituality cooked Steiner's rich dishes with a
                              > warm, kindled, human blaze.
                              >
                              > But then again, on the battle front of life, saving lives, from
                              fire
                              > men and women to police and swat teams to search and rescue on the
                              > high seas, to special forces teams, you hear the choleric
                              > shout, 'GO, GO, GO, GO!'. Adrenaline junkies can be found working
                              > rush hours in restaurants, on the cooking line in the heat of the
                              > battle, where the grills spit fire right in their faces and they
                              > spit back. Choleric fire is in all of us, even Tiger Woods breaks
                              > from his Zen mode to get really pissed off sometimes.
                              >
                              > "Some people – and all narcissists – are addicted to excitement, to
                              > the adrenaline rush, to the danger inevitably and invariably
                              > involved. They are the adrenaline junkies. All narcissists are
                              > adrenaline junkies – but not all adrenaline junkies are
                              narcissists.
                              >
                              > Thus, an adrenaline junkie must have a supply, a feed, which always
                              > comes with invented excitement, real or invented drama or emotional
                              > drama queens that have choleric forces in their feeling life. We
                              can
                              > understand that choleric forces or any of the other temperaments
                              can
                              > lodge themselves, not only in the will, but in the feeling, and in
                              > the region of mental aggression. On the one hand solid Choleric
                              > types are described as closer to the ground, Napoleonic and over
                              > confident. In a pinch you know that a Choleric will cover your
                              back,
                              > fight to the death and remain in the game though anxiety is
                              > everywhere and the odds against you are everywhere a great choleric
                              > will be the last face you see before you pass out.
                              >
                              > When unable to secure "normal" Narcissistic Supply – adulation,
                              > recognition, fame, celebrity, notoriety, infamy, affirmation, or
                              > mere attention – the adrenaline junkie resorts to "abnormal"
                              > attention grabbers. He tries to obtain his drug – the thrills, the
                              > good feeling that comes with adrenalin – by behaving recklessly, by
                              > succumbing to substance abuse, or by living dangerously.
                              >
                              > Such narcissists – faced with a chronic state of deficient
                              > Narcissistic Supply – become criminals, or race drivers, or
                              > gamblers, or soldiers, or investigative journalists. They defy
                              > authority. They avoid safety, routine and boredom – no safe sex, no
                              > financial prudence, no stable marriage or career. They become
                              > peripatetic, change jobs, or lovers, or vocations, or avocations,
                              or
                              > residences, or friendships often.
                              >
                              > But sometimes even these extreme and demonstrative steps are not
                              > enough. When confronted with a boring, routine existence – with a
                              > chronic and permanent inability to secure Narcissistic Supply and
                              > excitement – these people compensate by inventing thrills where
                              > there are none."
                              >
                              > http://phopro.ie/earthspirit/fire_salamander.jpg
                              >
                              > http://www.matrifocus.com/IMB05/images/fire-salamander-sm.jpg
                              >
                              > Melancholic type;
                              >
                              > The Melancholic earth dominated, nihilistic, Columbine depression,
                              > Nietzsche fixated, hooded rapper has a sharp wit. Often sees the
                              > bitter edges, the flaws, the inconsistencies and certainly
                              > gravitates and finds its deepest kindled light out of darkness. You
                              > could look at how Rembrandt took the darkness and found in it
                              golden
                              > hues...as highly interesting.
                              >
                              > The compression of darkness and the usual Adam's family values of
                              > tatoos, dark flesh piercings, pain, S&M, torture, the daughter in
                              > the film "BeetleJuice" dressed in black and seeing dead people
                              bring
                              > the soul into connection with the current cultural gesture of
                              > XXXXXtreme melancholic and enchained gnomes who must be sentenced,
                              > as the roots of trees, and mines are strip mined, and earth is
                              > carved up, the gnomes are sucked into a horrificaly depressing
                              > computerization of human intellectual forces.
                              >
                              > The Earth spirit gnome, ruled the biting wit of intellectual forces
                              > and now lurking in the mines and dark regions of the soul are
                              > Ahriman's horrific hordes. And sucked into the electro magnitic
                              > sphere, gnomes are compressed into Internet darkness where humans
                              > fail to see the depth and light that is in the intellect, the same
                              > as they refuse and fail to see the depths and ROOTS of the
                              universe,
                              > the soul and the Spirit as the roots of a great Tree of the I AM,
                              > Yggdrassil. Wagner and Tolkien felt the dark tug of the gnome
                              > community, wiped out and forced into elemental slave labor within
                              > the the electronic, hi-tech communications systems, inventions and
                              > military experimentation.
                              >
                              > Vast bacteria, watery, laser, and hi-tech atomic table forces are
                              > being whored, harnassed demonized in labs and forced into elemental
                              > labor and etheric torture to bring epidemics, annhilation by fire,
                              > radiation, and disrupting earthquakes, tidal waves and many of them
                              > now merely human generated for selfless political ends from the far
                              > west. Because the human sylph, nymph, salamander and gnome forces
                              in
                              > the healing processes of the human being are being trained
                              literally
                              > as Tolkien described how the elves became Orcs. But the joke is on
                              > humanity. For these beings are literally ripping into the cosmic
                              > human model and the safeguards of the human healing systems by labs
                              > that the American people are paying for so that the surface
                              > intellect can remain in its ahrimanized slumber. This was not the
                              > Agel of Light our children came to participate in, but the its
                              > horrific opposite and it is U, U who sit there and read these
                              things
                              > that have failed to IMAGINE clearly what is going on.
                              >
                              > This mighty potential and sacrifice of the melancholic gomes, where
                              > humans cannot think and they merely become the darkness, become
                              > nihilistic, become dangerous in their own stewing darkness, enjoy
                              > their selfish dangers, dark drugs and brooding faddishness...shames
                              > Hamlet and Hamlet is our own Consciousness Soul. Our Consciousness
                              > Soul does have a gesture and certainly the black suited Dr. Steiner
                              > and that sort of lecture fad, wouldn't have our usual melancholics
                              > and deep thinkers, now parading around in Hawaiian shirts now would
                              > they? Well they should play against type and certainly Steiner
                              would
                              > not be all tatooed with dark coal tints under his eyes for that
                              > vampire effect, if he walked into a room today. But Anthros still
                              > see it that way. Anthros hardly would trust an infusion of happy
                              > rollicking Michaelites pulling up in their Harley's to give
                              > conferences and talks. They have to be conservative, sober and
                              > unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings
                              > latent in the Anthro, because Anthros just want to gawk and stare
                              at
                              > the old b/w photos of Der Doctor, instead of revealing the bubbling
                              > life of the new Etheric Worlds. Eh?
                              >
                              > http://www.jazlink.com/jazlbums/England/HPIM0074.sized.jpg
                              >
                              > http://www.sculpturebyspirit.com/door.html
                              >
                            • opetha
                              Hello, Disfigurations in the Orient is the opposite of Transformations in the Occident , where would we be without ambiguity? We must face our devil
                              Message 14 of 30 , Oct 5, 2006
                                Hello,

                                "Disfigurations in the Orient" is the opposite of "Transformations in
                                the Occident", where would we be without ambiguity? We must face our
                                devil sometime.

                                Tarot cards--that's why it appears "typical new-age", maybe a typical
                                filter is the case. But what I say is 100% eternal law of the dhamma,
                                so far as the unconscious as mulaprakriti is unchanging ideation from
                                which any spiritual world, in any epoch, is built.

                                Bless.

                                Godot.












                                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Hello Bradford
                                > >
                                > > OK, I understand what you're saying if only you wouldn't go so
                                far
                                > > ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of
                                > that
                                > > psychological type.
                                >
                                > Yes, Bradford writes alot, just as you write alot. Actually, I
                                > don't see much of a difference. Now, I try to write in brief
                                > because it serves to catch the eye, and maybe gets a response,
                                which
                                > is what I look for. I said you wrote "hodgepodge" because you
                                were
                                > pulling out all stops to write 'new-age' dribble, which some
                                > possibly could have found offensive. In fact, I found your initial
                                > post offensive and arrogant. And that is why I didn't respond to
                                > indications of Steinerian concepts from his "Foundations of
                                > Esotericism" lectures from 1905.
                                >
                                > You are quite right in that Jung and Steiner represent a polarity;
                                > just as Kant and Steiner represent a polarity from a philosophical
                                > standpoint. This has all been gone over before, on that other
                                > little ship called the s.s. minnow. Jung is to psychology what
                                Kant
                                > is to philosophy in terms of limits to knowledge and perception.
                                > And Rudolf Steiner overcame these bounds for those that seek to
                                > overcome such limits in order to go further in terms of knowledge
                                > and being.
                                >
                                > Esotericism and its relationship to modern thought is what
                                interests
                                > me. Spiritual science exists in order to extend thinking and
                                > knowledge into the causal realm that stands behind external
                                > phenomena. But you have to take up the study in earnest, just as
                                > you have taken up your study of Jungian principles according to a
                                > collective unconsciousness that is quite attractive to people today
                                > because it leaves the mysteries and enigmas alone; except to engage
                                > in conservative speculation about what things mean in the greater
                                > course of events.
                                >
                                > Thus, synchonicity and its phenomenal representation is a fact that
                                > only spiritual science can truly penetrate into its causality as an
                                > increasing experience of spiritual necessity. I didn't want to
                                lose
                                > that important point.
                                >
                                > Steve
                                >
                              • holderlin66
                                Godot wrote: A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use him as an
                                Message 15 of 30 , Oct 5, 2006
                                  Godot wrote:

                                  "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school
                                  and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use
                                  him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                  psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                  leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                                  until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                  how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound your
                                  science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is this
                                  not so?"

                                  "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                  writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                                  forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                                  men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                  Things."

                                  Bradford comments;

                                  Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                                  Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal. But we
                                  can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical point
                                  means better than the current Jungians.

                                  John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age 33.
                                  Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the world
                                  over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the Declaration
                                  of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing Religious
                                  Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.

                                  María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                                  8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.

                                  1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES

                                  Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0

                                  (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)

                                  In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space of
                                  just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become one of
                                  the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                  finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with three
                                  friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                  philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                  labeled "Transcendentalism."

                                  The Human Life by George O'Neil

                                  " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                  George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of Biography.
                                  The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of seven-
                                  year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the archetype
                                  of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead particularly
                                  after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly. The
                                  book goes into detail about the need to understand the importance of
                                  a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                  karmic companions, moon nodes etc.

                                  In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The chart
                                  has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea, and
                                  karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived and I
                                  personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                                  myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                  unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.

                                  George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work and
                                  insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain even
                                  through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a Mercury
                                  Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."

                                  Bradford concludes;

                                  Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously we
                                  have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures with
                                  first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and the
                                  change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart; the
                                  astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                  personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                  heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                                  human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33 years
                                  of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to 1933
                                  when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is Ahriman
                                  who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.

                                  What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is exposed to
                                  all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It recrossed
                                  his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to what we
                                  have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful elemental
                                  intensity and GUILT.

                                  But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                  understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                  being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces that
                                  truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I AM,
                                  human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away from
                                  his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age, when
                                  Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                  twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of the
                                  two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                  prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math and
                                  interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world and
                                  Man.

                                  But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as possible
                                  the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                  consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                  Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate
                                  and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point.
                                  Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the Christ
                                  take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                                  thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away, looking
                                  down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully developed
                                  etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                                  function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and as
                                  fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra to
                                  hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts the
                                  amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that Zarathustra
                                  watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest prepared
                                  human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this loving,
                                  living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun Elohim
                                  Christ.

                                  It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that Zarathustra
                                  had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a clarified
                                  astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom ever
                                  condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                  someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a gift to
                                  something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine all
                                  the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                  insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched althought
                                  Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                  mysteries to us.

                                  Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                                  thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM live
                                  fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33. Take
                                  Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region of
                                  the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this I
                                  AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt the
                                  karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world over
                                  and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds, Goethe,
                                  Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the Christ
                                  event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic family
                                  with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic family!!
                                  Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                  viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                  Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                                  Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson with
                                  his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                  community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner titles
                                  his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative of
                                  Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?

                                  Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the science
                                  of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at age 30
                                  to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting confrontation
                                  with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                  structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                  Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say we
                                  could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list of
                                  insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding places
                                  in the bushes.

                                  This is all that you need to remember about the difference between
                                  Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                • opetha
                                  Good day, THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH ! Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn t matter in the end, we all have our own opinions and beliefs.
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
                                    Good day,

                                    THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !

                                    Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end, we
                                    all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I would
                                    rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the 33
                                    and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed horoscope
                                    they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33, 34,
                                    or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.

                                    Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                                    saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto when
                                    he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect lasts a
                                    long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This system
                                    has
                                    never known to fail, and like your interpretations of synchronicity
                                    , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by

                                    (a) energy
                                    or (b) causality

                                    Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was not
                                    a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of the
                                    SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                                    tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the jambu
                                    tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                                    energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                                    quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the centre
                                    was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                                    types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                                    have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).

                                    Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying that
                                    the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth by
                                    a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from the
                                    bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                                    sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.

                                    "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                                    -Pythagoras

                                    Godot.
















                                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66" <holderlin66@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Godot wrote:
                                    >
                                    > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school
                                    > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use
                                    > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                    > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                    > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                                    > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                    > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound your
                                    > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is this
                                    > not so?"
                                    >
                                    > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                    > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                                    > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                                    > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                    > Things."
                                    >
                                    > Bradford comments;
                                    >
                                    > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                                    > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal. But
                                    we
                                    > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                    point
                                    > means better than the current Jungians.
                                    >
                                    > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age 33.
                                    > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the world
                                    > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the Declaration
                                    > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing Religious
                                    > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                    >
                                    > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                                    > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                    >
                                    > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                    >
                                    > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                    >
                                    > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                    >
                                    > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space of
                                    > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become one
                                    of
                                    > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                    > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                    three
                                    > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                    > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                    > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                    >
                                    > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                    >
                                    > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                    > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of Biography.
                                    > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                    seven-
                                    > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the archetype
                                    > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                    particularly
                                    > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly. The
                                    > book goes into detail about the need to understand the importance
                                    of
                                    > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                    > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                    >
                                    > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The chart
                                    > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea, and
                                    > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived and I
                                    > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                                    > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                    > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                    >
                                    > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work and
                                    > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain even
                                    > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a Mercury
                                    > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."
                                    >
                                    > Bradford concludes;
                                    >
                                    > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously we
                                    > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                    with
                                    > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and the
                                    > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart; the
                                    > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                    > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                    > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                                    > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33 years
                                    > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                    1933
                                    > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is Ahriman
                                    > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                    >
                                    > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is exposed
                                    to
                                    > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                    recrossed
                                    > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to what
                                    we
                                    > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful elemental
                                    > intensity and GUILT.
                                    >
                                    > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                    > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                    > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces that
                                    > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I AM,
                                    > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away from
                                    > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age, when
                                    > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                    > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of the
                                    > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                    > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math
                                    and
                                    > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world and
                                    > Man.
                                    >
                                    > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as possible
                                    > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                    > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                    > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate
                                    > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point.
                                    > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the Christ
                                    > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                                    > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away, looking
                                    > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully developed
                                    > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                                    > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and as
                                    > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra to
                                    > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts
                                    the
                                    > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that Zarathustra
                                    > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest prepared
                                    > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this loving,
                                    > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun Elohim
                                    > Christ.
                                    >
                                    > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that Zarathustra
                                    > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a clarified
                                    > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom ever
                                    > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                    > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a gift
                                    to
                                    > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine
                                    all
                                    > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                    > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched althought
                                    > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                    > mysteries to us.
                                    >
                                    > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                                    > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM live
                                    > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33. Take
                                    > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region of
                                    > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this I
                                    > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt the
                                    > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world over
                                    > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds, Goethe,
                                    > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the Christ
                                    > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                    family
                                    > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                    family!!
                                    > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                    > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                    > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                                    > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                    with
                                    > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                    > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner titles
                                    > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative of
                                    > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                    >
                                    > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                    science
                                    > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at age
                                    30
                                    > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting confrontation
                                    > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                    > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                    > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say we
                                    > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list of
                                    > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding places
                                    > in the bushes.
                                    >
                                    > This is all that you need to remember about the difference between
                                    > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                    >
                                  • carol
                                    Dear Godot, Perhaps next time around you ll possess the great courage necessary to take on the `big picture . Please take note that your inner urge to
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
                                      Dear Godot,

                                      Perhaps next time around you'll possess the great courage necessary
                                      to take on the `big picture'. Please take note that your inner urge
                                      to directly wrestling with Anthroposophy has now
                                      figuratively `sprinkled your soul with a light drizzle'.

                                      May the heavens ray down upon you... in sympathy, Carol

                                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Good day,
                                      >
                                      > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !
                                      >
                                      > Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end,
                                      we
                                      > all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I
                                      would
                                      > rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the
                                      33
                                      > and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed
                                      horoscope
                                      > they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33,
                                      34,
                                      > or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.
                                      >
                                      > Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                                      > saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto
                                      when
                                      > he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect
                                      lasts a
                                      > long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This
                                      system
                                      > has
                                      > never known to fail, and like your interpretations of synchronicity
                                      > , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by
                                      >
                                      > (a) energy
                                      > or (b) causality
                                      >
                                      > Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was
                                      not
                                      > a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of
                                      the
                                      > SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                                      > tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the
                                      jambu
                                      > tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                                      > energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                                      > quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the
                                      centre
                                      > was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                                      > types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                                      > have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).
                                      >
                                      > Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying
                                      that
                                      > the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth
                                      by
                                      > a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from
                                      the
                                      > bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                                      > sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.
                                      >
                                      > "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                                      > -Pythagoras
                                      >
                                      > Godot.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66" <holderlin66@>
                                      > wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Godot wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish
                                      school
                                      > > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will
                                      use
                                      > > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                      > > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                      > > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                                      > > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                      > > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound
                                      your
                                      > > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                                      this
                                      > > not so?"
                                      > >
                                      > > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                      > > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                                      > > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                                      > > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                      > > Things."
                                      > >
                                      > > Bradford comments;
                                      > >
                                      > > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                                      > > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal.
                                      But
                                      > we
                                      > > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                      > point
                                      > > means better than the current Jungians.
                                      > >
                                      > > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age
                                      33.
                                      > > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the
                                      world
                                      > > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                                      Declaration
                                      > > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing
                                      Religious
                                      > > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                      > >
                                      > > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                                      > > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                      > >
                                      > > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                      > >
                                      > > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                      > >
                                      > > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                      > >
                                      > > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space
                                      of
                                      > > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become
                                      one
                                      > of
                                      > > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                      > > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                      > three
                                      > > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                      > > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                      > > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                      > >
                                      > > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                      > >
                                      > > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                      > > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of
                                      Biography.
                                      > > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                      > seven-
                                      > > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the
                                      archetype
                                      > > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                      > particularly
                                      > > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                                      The
                                      > > book goes into detail about the need to understand the
                                      importance
                                      > of
                                      > > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                      > > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                      > >
                                      > > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                                      chart
                                      > > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea,
                                      and
                                      > > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived
                                      and I
                                      > > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                                      > > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                      > > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                      > >
                                      > > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work
                                      and
                                      > > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain
                                      even
                                      > > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a
                                      Mercury
                                      > > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."
                                      > >
                                      > > Bradford concludes;
                                      > >
                                      > > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously
                                      we
                                      > > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                      > with
                                      > > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and
                                      the
                                      > > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart;
                                      the
                                      > > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                      > > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                      > > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                                      > > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33
                                      years
                                      > > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                      > 1933
                                      > > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                                      Ahriman
                                      > > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                      > >
                                      > > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is
                                      exposed
                                      > to
                                      > > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                      > recrossed
                                      > > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to
                                      what
                                      > we
                                      > > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                                      elemental
                                      > > intensity and GUILT.
                                      > >
                                      > > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                      > > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                      > > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces
                                      that
                                      > > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I
                                      AM,
                                      > > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away
                                      from
                                      > > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                                      when
                                      > > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                      > > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of
                                      the
                                      > > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                      > > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math
                                      > and
                                      > > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world
                                      and
                                      > > Man.
                                      > >
                                      > > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as
                                      possible
                                      > > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                      > > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                      > > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                                      incubate
                                      > > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that
                                      point.
                                      > > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                                      Christ
                                      > > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                                      > > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away,
                                      looking
                                      > > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                                      developed
                                      > > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                                      > > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and
                                      as
                                      > > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra
                                      to
                                      > > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts
                                      > the
                                      > > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                                      Zarathustra
                                      > > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest
                                      prepared
                                      > > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this
                                      loving,
                                      > > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                                      Elohim
                                      > > Christ.
                                      > >
                                      > > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                                      Zarathustra
                                      > > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                                      clarified
                                      > > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom
                                      ever
                                      > > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                      > > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a
                                      gift
                                      > to
                                      > > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine
                                      > all
                                      > > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                      > > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched
                                      althought
                                      > > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                      > > mysteries to us.
                                      > >
                                      > > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                                      > > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                                      live
                                      > > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                                      Take
                                      > > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region
                                      of
                                      > > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this
                                      I
                                      > > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                                      the
                                      > > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world
                                      over
                                      > > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds,
                                      Goethe,
                                      > > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                                      Christ
                                      > > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                      > family
                                      > > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                      > family!!
                                      > > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                      > > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                      > > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                                      > > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                      > with
                                      > > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                      > > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                                      titles
                                      > > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative
                                      of
                                      > > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                      > >
                                      > > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                      > science
                                      > > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at
                                      age
                                      > 30
                                      > > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting
                                      confrontation
                                      > > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                      > > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                      > > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say
                                      we
                                      > > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list
                                      of
                                      > > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                                      places
                                      > > in the bushes.
                                      > >
                                      > > This is all that you need to remember about the difference
                                      between
                                      > > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • opetha
                                      Dear Godot, Perhaps next time around you ll possess the great courage necessary to take on the `big picture . Please take note that your inner urge to
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
                                        "Dear Godot,

                                        Perhaps next time around you'll possess the great courage necessary
                                        to take on the `big picture'. Please take note that your inner urge
                                        to directly wrestling with Anthroposophy has now
                                        figuratively `sprinkled your soul with a light drizzle'. >
                                        May the heavens ray down upon you... in sympathy, Carol"

                                        The jehovah's witnesses are saying the same thing to you. This is an
                                        anthroposophy site , if it was a Jung site you'd get the same
                                        sectarian onanism from them. Human beings are not free of poison,
                                        carol, this includes you.

                                        The 'big picture' includes the collective unconscious which you think
                                        is against anthroposophy. No spirit can operate without a Karmic
                                        symbol in the unconscious, all spirits, phantom worlds and "eigth
                                        spheres" all have a reflection in the unconscious, they cannot be
                                        created without ideation.

                                        A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless
                                        that person's unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows
                                        NOTHING about the unconscious and thinks that he is "divining"
                                        himself psychically that he can kill
                                        or heal someone. If he does heal, the spirit thinks that he did it by
                                        his own effort. But the unconscious symbols, or archetypes, as we can
                                        see by progression astrology is shown by that dead or healed
                                        persons's horoscope; the aspects produced are synchronized to the
                                        causel éffect. So, you see, these two worlds of unconscious and
                                        conscious spirit are paralell. But because you have week intuition
                                        you cannot see this, so you make up a lot of abstract rules to
                                        entertain consciousness.
                                        Totality--"christ etheric"---is only acheived through union of the
                                        opposites. It is the resting of all spirit.

                                        You have no balance and are threatened by this testament.

                                        DE FABIS ABSTINUTO.
                                        Godot











                                        > >
                                        > > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !
                                        > >
                                        > > Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end,
                                        > we
                                        > > all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I
                                        > would
                                        > > rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the
                                        > 33
                                        > > and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed
                                        > horoscope
                                        > > they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33,
                                        > 34,
                                        > > or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.
                                        > >
                                        > > Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                                        > > saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto
                                        > when
                                        > > he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect
                                        > lasts a
                                        > > long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This
                                        > system
                                        > > has
                                        > > never known to fail, and like your interpretations of
                                        synchronicity
                                        > > , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by
                                        > >
                                        > > (a) energy
                                        > > or (b) causality
                                        > >
                                        > > Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was
                                        > not
                                        > > a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of
                                        > the
                                        > > SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                                        > > tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the
                                        > jambu
                                        > > tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                                        > > energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                                        > > quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the
                                        > centre
                                        > > was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                                        > > types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                                        > > have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).
                                        > >
                                        > > Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying
                                        > that
                                        > > the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth
                                        > by
                                        > > a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from
                                        > the
                                        > > bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                                        > > sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.
                                        > >
                                        > > "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                                        > > -Pythagoras
                                        > >
                                        > > Godot.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                        <holderlin66@>
                                        > > wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Godot wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish
                                        > school
                                        > > > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will
                                        > use
                                        > > > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                        > > > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                        > > > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the
                                        stars
                                        > > > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                        > > > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound
                                        > your
                                        > > > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                                        > this
                                        > > > not so?"
                                        > > >
                                        > > > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                        > > > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of
                                        the
                                        > > > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age
                                        for
                                        > > > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                        > > > Things."
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Bradford comments;
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human
                                        being.
                                        > > > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal.
                                        > But
                                        > > we
                                        > > > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                        > > point
                                        > > > means better than the current Jungians.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age
                                        > 33.
                                        > > > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the
                                        > world
                                        > > > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                                        > Declaration
                                        > > > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing
                                        > Religious
                                        > > > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33,
                                        at
                                        > > > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                        > > >
                                        > > > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                        > > >
                                        > > > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space
                                        > of
                                        > > > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become
                                        > one
                                        > > of
                                        > > > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                        > > > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                        > > three
                                        > > > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                        > > > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                        > > > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                        > > >
                                        > > > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                        > > >
                                        > > > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                        > > > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of
                                        > Biography.
                                        > > > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                        > > seven-
                                        > > > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the
                                        > archetype
                                        > > > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                        > > particularly
                                        > > > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                                        > The
                                        > > > book goes into detail about the need to understand the
                                        > importance
                                        > > of
                                        > > > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                        > > > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                                        > chart
                                        > > > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea,
                                        > and
                                        > > > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived
                                        > and I
                                        > > > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I
                                        find
                                        > > > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                        > > > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work
                                        > and
                                        > > > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain
                                        > even
                                        > > > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a
                                        > Mercury
                                        > > > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real
                                        gem."
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Bradford concludes;
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science.
                                        Previously
                                        > we
                                        > > > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                        > > with
                                        > > > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and
                                        > the
                                        > > > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart;
                                        > the
                                        > > > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                        > > > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                        > > > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find
                                        the
                                        > > > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33
                                        > years
                                        > > > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                        > > 1933
                                        > > > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                                        > Ahriman
                                        > > > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is
                                        > exposed
                                        > > to
                                        > > > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                        > > recrossed
                                        > > > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to
                                        > what
                                        > > we
                                        > > > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                                        > elemental
                                        > > > intensity and GUILT.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                        > > > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                        > > > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces
                                        > that
                                        > > > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I
                                        > AM,
                                        > > > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away
                                        > from
                                        > > > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                                        > when
                                        > > > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                        > > > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of
                                        > the
                                        > > > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                        > > > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic
                                        math
                                        > > and
                                        > > > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world
                                        > and
                                        > > > Man.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as
                                        > possible
                                        > > > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                        > > > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                        > > > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                                        > incubate
                                        > > > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that
                                        > point.
                                        > > > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                                        > Christ
                                        > > > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language,
                                        brain,
                                        > > > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away,
                                        > looking
                                        > > > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                                        > developed
                                        > > > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot,
                                        fully
                                        > > > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and
                                        > as
                                        > > > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra
                                        > to
                                        > > > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's
                                        depicts
                                        > > the
                                        > > > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                                        > Zarathustra
                                        > > > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest
                                        > prepared
                                        > > > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this
                                        > loving,
                                        > > > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                                        > Elohim
                                        > > > Christ.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                                        > Zarathustra
                                        > > > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                                        > clarified
                                        > > > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom
                                        > ever
                                        > > > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                        > > > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a
                                        > gift
                                        > > to
                                        > > > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't
                                        examine
                                        > > all
                                        > > > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                        > > > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched
                                        > althought
                                        > > > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                        > > > mysteries to us.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting
                                        each
                                        > > > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                                        > live
                                        > > > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                                        > Take
                                        > > > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region
                                        > of
                                        > > > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought
                                        this
                                        > I
                                        > > > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                                        > the
                                        > > > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world
                                        > over
                                        > > > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds,
                                        > Goethe,
                                        > > > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                                        > Christ
                                        > > > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                        > > family
                                        > > > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                        > > family!!
                                        > > > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                        > > > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                        > > > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger
                                        or
                                        > > > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                        > > with
                                        > > > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                        > > > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                                        > titles
                                        > > > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative
                                        > of
                                        > > > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                        > > science
                                        > > > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at
                                        > age
                                        > > 30
                                        > > > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting
                                        > confrontation
                                        > > > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                        > > > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                        > > > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd
                                        say
                                        > we
                                        > > > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list
                                        > of
                                        > > > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                                        > places
                                        > > > in the bushes.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > This is all that you need to remember about the difference
                                        > between
                                        > > > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • holderlin66
                                        opetha wrote: A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless that person s unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows NOTHING
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
                                          opetha wrote:

                                          "A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless
                                          that person's unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows
                                          NOTHING about the unconscious and thinks that he is "divining"
                                          himself psychically that he can kill
                                          or heal someone. If he does heal, the spirit thinks that he did it by
                                          his own effort. But the unconscious symbols, or archetypes, as we can
                                          see by progression astrology is shown by that dead or healed
                                          persons's horoscope; the aspects produced are synchronized to the
                                          causel éffect. So, you see, these two worlds of unconscious and
                                          conscious spirit are paralell."

                                          Bradford comments;

                                          Truly, truly, not that it matters, by Jungianism is a very good
                                          basis for beginners to grasp Anthroposophy. Most Anthro's have not
                                          progressed further than vague Jungianism, but Jungianism is a good
                                          enough approach to start off with.

                                          But to the issue, Godot, the issue of healing. Now there is again an
                                          area of actual healing, as in the so called miracles, and right
                                          away, forget about whatever you have assumed about the miracles in
                                          the past. Healing, certainly healers and healing is a wonderful
                                          theory and vaguely we are all growing into healers. But Healers that
                                          are given the task of producing from our core, an entirely new
                                          nature with adjustments and elemental world healings, and karmic
                                          balancers.

                                          But the theory of healers has to have itself rooted in something.
                                          That something is known as the progressive science miracles of
                                          Christ. That is that Anthro Science and Resurrection Science can
                                          walk you through the slow unfolding and serious deepening, step by
                                          step as the Christ penetrated...the Jesus model built by Zarathustra.

                                          Step by step, the vast Being of the Christ, using the developing
                                          cognition of the Christ and Zarathustra's highly developed faculties
                                          and Buddha's immense cosmic compassion, started out with what,
                                          changing water into wine. But from each step by step, stage by stage
                                          deepening of what Christ is, the I AM of all I AM's, as our I AM and
                                          higher being penetrates into our being, firstly Christ taps the deep
                                          forces of wine, blood and the elemental forces of the EArth. Christ
                                          changes water into wine. Whole new elemental forces in the nymphs
                                          and undines spring to life in clay jars.

                                          Now what happens stage by stage are not miracles but the unfolding
                                          in depth capacity and science of the forces of Karma cognition,
                                          healing blind people, or blood issues, or the Youth of Nain, as a
                                          world historical karmic adjustment that was left over from THE SON
                                          OF THE WIDOW an Isis and Egyptian karmic problem that left a youth
                                          in a coma, was read and adjusted by Christ.

                                          We have brought on this list, on this list only recently, revealing
                                          these miracles under the heading of miracles and we walked it
                                          through as best we could. That is that Christ was the active Star
                                          Genius, the active adjustor. Christ on Earth was an active vortex of
                                          living Star force that usually exists outside of humanity. Christ
                                          brought the living Stars for a short time, exactly on Earth.
                                          Steiner, better than Bill Gates, knew the codes and developments of
                                          I AM's and Christ could and had the power in the vortex that was
                                          established around him.... a vast vortex of forces that included the
                                          TWELVE, Christ was the walking reality of the immediate stars. These
                                          powers are all latent in the puny i am or id and how we raise
                                          ourselves to our higher beings, and eventually bring the Not I but
                                          Christ I AM into us, is left for our unfolding future.

                                          But my point is not that they were healing and miracles and not that
                                          human beings, Jungians and biodynamics farmers, Waldorf educators,
                                          and Anthro trained students aren't healers, we all are. But my point
                                          was that an entirely new nature ---- This should be grasped and I
                                          can't blame anyone, including Anthros for not yet grasping this, but
                                          the fact is that a New Nature force rose up and will rise up not
                                          from miracles but from the penetrating and clarified science of the
                                          I AM going deeper and deeper into the I AM, down to the core of
                                          matter. And I can tell you that penetrating the core of matter as
                                          Love and Light is part of the Heisenberg problem. A problem that
                                          Heisenberg and Steiner agreed upon. As the I AM is penetrated and we
                                          become more and more conscious, the exactness of the science, the
                                          etheric forces needed, the star forces needed, all become clear to
                                          the force that had penetrated the Jesus model, once the Cosmic I AM
                                          took root.

                                          The science of healing, certainly has a beginning with a Jungian
                                          frame of reference and Anthroposophy picks up that Jungian frame of
                                          reference and more and more consolidates what is termed,
                                          UNCONSCIOUS, as nothing that cannot be explored by the Spiritual
                                          Scientist. Naturally the idea that Steiner was unconscious of the
                                          nature forces or star forces and medical forces as he plunged into
                                          his "Agricultural Course" is absurd. Naturally to imagine that the
                                          hit or miss version of Edgar Casey was on par with the Conscious
                                          Initiate Science of Steiner, is sweet. But to penetrate the
                                          properties of the stars, and direct them down to the soil, or
                                          through the organism, or into the model of higher and general
                                          education, means that the unconscious model that Jungians declare as
                                          part of the unexplored area of their being....that may be true for
                                          us, but it was less and less true for both Zarathustra, Buddha and
                                          Steiner. Mapping the Unconscious with clarity is also not getting
                                          trapped in the idea of vague nonsense.

                                          Myths, archetypes, you give it to me, and I'll spit it right back in
                                          the direction that reveals, not the unconscious but the maps of the
                                          unconscious. When we say maps, we are talking Dante and his nine
                                          layers deep and nine layers upwards. When we are talking maps, we
                                          are talking about the same Nine layers of the Norse Yggdrasill. When
                                          we are talking maps of the unconscious we are talking about the same
                                          Nine layers that were known to the Egyptians....if you want me to
                                          prove it... suffice it to say, KA...etc... etc... What you insist on
                                          the unconscious was the Venus steps of the Aztec and Mayan altars,
                                          where the nine months of gestation and the snake shadow that runs
                                          down the steps and even the number of steps up the Venus altar where
                                          human sacrifice was made, were the exact number of steps as the
                                          number of days it took Venus....And then the Aztec's went down into
                                          the nine worlds of the underworld. These maps were not meant to be
                                          relegated as unconscious.

                                          Now Spiritual Science does not stand on the unconscious, it stands
                                          for the progressive unfolding of deeper and deeper layers of
                                          conscious penetration. That means that Nine Hierarchies, say, and
                                          Nine layers of the inner Earth and Nine fields of soul development
                                          in the human being are all part of the accurate, science of the maps
                                          of human cognition and the worlds around us.

                                          The fact that the stars play a part has also been brought up here as
                                          the 12 pairs of Cranial nerves that are the literal, pin-prick and
                                          compass that forms the human brain, and gives each individual a time
                                          stamp and a specific compass point, a karmic talent and capcity POV
                                          that is unique to the birth of each human being. This brain sheath
                                          and skull as well as the Dodecahedron has been generously explored
                                          here. So indeed Star movements and how the TWELVE operated around
                                          the Christ as a stabalizing field for the immense Elohim, Christ, in
                                          a warm field of Olive Trees and in the super warmed blood of the
                                          Hebrew people with their specific Iron forces... All this was to
                                          root the immense Sun Being and anchor it into Jesus.

                                          Then, to top it all off, the entire cellular structure glows with
                                          such a powerful light at the Transfiguration that the entire
                                          mysteries of matter, down to the very core of the bones, is infused
                                          and penetrated with a cosmic light. I can only thank-you profusely
                                          for offering your wonderful Jungian curiosity to the stable
                                          foundations of Spiritual Science. Because Anthro Jungians, which
                                          there are many of us, also need to get with the program that this is
                                          not the vague unconscious we are dealing with.
                                        • organicethics@sympatico.ca
                                          Interesting, I think clarification is being called upon. Here’s one small example: The big picture includes the collective unconscious (the Akasha) which
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
                                            Interesting, I think clarification is being called upon. Here’s one small example:

                                            The 'big picture' includes the collective unconscious (the Akasha) which you think
                                            is against anthroposophy (your reflection). No spirit (individual soul) can operate without a Karmic symbol (imprint/spiritual configuration animated by spiritual beings) in the unconscious, all spirits, phantom worlds and "eigth spheres" all have a reflection (living reality in the occult world) in the unconscious, they cannot be created without ideation (the participation of the thinking soul/spirit).

                                            Godot, Theosophy gets you deep with the typical disorganization. Anthroposophy offers the opportunity for Occult experience with the safeguards against getting ‘muddled’.

                                            Godot, be my guest, go do your thing, it’s your destiny, it’s you who ultimately answers for your actions and choices.

                                            But rest assured, that if you send ME psychic ‘threats’, you’ll get sunken…!

                                            Have a nice evening Godot, and be nice to people, Carol.

                                            >
                                            > From: "opetha" <opetha@...>
                                            > Date: 2006/10/06 Fri PM 02:41:21 EST
                                            > To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: Amoeba contra Manu
                                            >
                                            > "Dear Godot,
                                            >
                                            > Perhaps next time around you'll possess the great courage necessary
                                            > to take on the `big picture'. Please take note that your inner urge
                                            > to directly wrestling with Anthroposophy has now
                                            > figuratively `sprinkled your soul with a light drizzle'. >
                                            > May the heavens ray down upon you... in sympathy, Carol"
                                            >
                                            > The jehovah's witnesses are saying the same thing to you. This is an
                                            > anthroposophy site , if it was a Jung site you'd get the same
                                            > sectarian onanism from them. Human beings are not free of poison,
                                            > carol, this includes you.
                                            >
                                            > The 'big picture' includes the collective unconscious which you think
                                            > is against anthroposophy. No spirit can operate without a Karmic
                                            > symbol in the unconscious, all spirits, phantom worlds and "eigth
                                            > spheres" all have a reflection in the unconscious, they cannot be
                                            > created without ideation.
                                            >
                                            > A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless
                                            > that person's unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows
                                            > NOTHING about the unconscious and thinks that he is "divining"
                                            > himself psychically that he can kill
                                            > or heal someone. If he does heal, the spirit thinks that he did it by
                                            > his own effort. But the unconscious symbols, or archetypes, as we can
                                            > see by progression astrology is shown by that dead or healed
                                            > persons's horoscope; the aspects produced are synchronized to the
                                            > causel éffect. So, you see, these two worlds of unconscious and
                                            > conscious spirit are paralell. But because you have week intuition
                                            > you cannot see this, so you make up a lot of abstract rules to
                                            > entertain consciousness.
                                            > Totality--"christ etheric"---is only acheived through union of the
                                            > opposites. It is the resting of all spirit.
                                            >
                                            > You have no balance and are threatened by this testament.
                                            >
                                            > DE FABIS ABSTINUTO.
                                            > Godot
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end,
                                            > > we
                                            > > > all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I
                                            > > would
                                            > > > rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the
                                            > > 33
                                            > > > and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed
                                            > > horoscope
                                            > > > they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33,
                                            > > 34,
                                            > > > or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                                            > > > saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto
                                            > > when
                                            > > > he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect
                                            > > lasts a
                                            > > > long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This
                                            > > system
                                            > > > has
                                            > > > never known to fail, and like your interpretations of
                                            > synchronicity
                                            > > > , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by
                                            > > >
                                            > > > (a) energy
                                            > > > or (b) causality
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was
                                            > > not
                                            > > > a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of
                                            > > the
                                            > > > SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                                            > > > tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the
                                            > > jambu
                                            > > > tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                                            > > > energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                                            > > > quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the
                                            > > centre
                                            > > > was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                                            > > > types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                                            > > > have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying
                                            > > that
                                            > > > the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth
                                            > > by
                                            > > > a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from
                                            > > the
                                            > > > bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                                            > > > sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                                            > > > -Pythagoras
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Godot.
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                            > <holderlin66@>
                                            > > > wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Godot wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish
                                            > > school
                                            > > > > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will
                                            > > use
                                            > > > > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                            > > > > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                            > > > > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the
                                            > stars
                                            > > > > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                            > > > > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound
                                            > > your
                                            > > > > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                                            > > this
                                            > > > > not so?"
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                            > > > > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of
                                            > the
                                            > > > > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age
                                            > for
                                            > > > > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                            > > > > Things."
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Bradford comments;
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human
                                            > being.
                                            > > > > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal.
                                            > > But
                                            > > > we
                                            > > > > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                            > > > point
                                            > > > > means better than the current Jungians.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age
                                            > > 33.
                                            > > > > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the
                                            > > world
                                            > > > > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                                            > > Declaration
                                            > > > > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing
                                            > > Religious
                                            > > > > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33,
                                            > at
                                            > > > > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space
                                            > > of
                                            > > > > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become
                                            > > one
                                            > > > of
                                            > > > > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                            > > > > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                            > > > three
                                            > > > > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                            > > > > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                            > > > > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                            > > > > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of
                                            > > Biography.
                                            > > > > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                            > > > seven-
                                            > > > > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the
                                            > > archetype
                                            > > > > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                            > > > particularly
                                            > > > > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                                            > > The
                                            > > > > book goes into detail about the need to understand the
                                            > > importance
                                            > > > of
                                            > > > > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                            > > > > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                                            > > chart
                                            > > > > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea,
                                            > > and
                                            > > > > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived
                                            > > and I
                                            > > > > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I
                                            > find
                                            > > > > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                            > > > > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work
                                            > > and
                                            > > > > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain
                                            > > even
                                            > > > > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a
                                            > > Mercury
                                            > > > > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real
                                            > gem."
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Bradford concludes;
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science.
                                            > Previously
                                            > > we
                                            > > > > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                            > > > with
                                            > > > > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and
                                            > > the
                                            > > > > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart;
                                            > > the
                                            > > > > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                            > > > > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                            > > > > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find
                                            > the
                                            > > > > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33
                                            > > years
                                            > > > > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                            > > > 1933
                                            > > > > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                                            > > Ahriman
                                            > > > > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is
                                            > > exposed
                                            > > > to
                                            > > > > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                            > > > recrossed
                                            > > > > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to
                                            > > what
                                            > > > we
                                            > > > > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                                            > > elemental
                                            > > > > intensity and GUILT.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                            > > > > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                            > > > > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces
                                            > > that
                                            > > > > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I
                                            > > AM,
                                            > > > > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away
                                            > > from
                                            > > > > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                                            > > when
                                            > > > > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                            > > > > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of
                                            > > the
                                            > > > > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                            > > > > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic
                                            > math
                                            > > > and
                                            > > > > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world
                                            > > and
                                            > > > > Man.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as
                                            > > possible
                                            > > > > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                            > > > > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                            > > > > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                                            > > incubate
                                            > > > > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that
                                            > > point.
                                            > > > > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                                            > > Christ
                                            > > > > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language,
                                            > brain,
                                            > > > > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away,
                                            > > looking
                                            > > > > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                                            > > developed
                                            > > > > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot,
                                            > fully
                                            > > > > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and
                                            > > as
                                            > > > > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra
                                            > > to
                                            > > > > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's
                                            > depicts
                                            > > > the
                                            > > > > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                                            > > Zarathustra
                                            > > > > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest
                                            > > prepared
                                            > > > > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this
                                            > > loving,
                                            > > > > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                                            > > Elohim
                                            > > > > Christ.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                                            > > Zarathustra
                                            > > > > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                                            > > clarified
                                            > > > > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom
                                            > > ever
                                            > > > > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                            > > > > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a
                                            > > gift
                                            > > > to
                                            > > > > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't
                                            > examine
                                            > > > all
                                            > > > > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                            > > > > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched
                                            > > althought
                                            > > > > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                            > > > > mysteries to us.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting
                                            > each
                                            > > > > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                                            > > live
                                            > > > > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                                            > > Take
                                            > > > > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region
                                            > > of
                                            > > > > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought
                                            > this
                                            > > I
                                            > > > > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                                            > > the
                                            > > > > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world
                                            > > over
                                            > > > > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds,
                                            > > Goethe,
                                            > > > > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                                            > > Christ
                                            > > > > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                            > > > family
                                            > > > > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                            > > > family!!
                                            > > > > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                            > > > > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                            > > > > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger
                                            > or
                                            > > > > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                            > > > with
                                            > > > > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                            > > > > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                                            > > titles
                                            > > > > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative
                                            > > of
                                            > > > > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                            > > > science
                                            > > > > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at
                                            > > age
                                            > > > 30
                                            > > > > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting
                                            > > confrontation
                                            > > > > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                            > > > > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                            > > > > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd
                                            > say
                                            > > we
                                            > > > > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list
                                            > > of
                                            > > > > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                                            > > places
                                            > > > > in the bushes.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > This is all that you need to remember about the difference
                                            > > between
                                            > > > > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                            > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • opetha
                                            Hello, OK, organicethics, but akash = unconcsious is a major blunder of childish proportions. You are embarressing. You say: But rest assured, that if you
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Oct 7, 2006
                                              Hello,

                                              OK, organicethics, but akash = unconcsious is a major blunder of
                                              childish proportions. You are embarressing.

                                              You say:

                                              "But rest assured, that if you send ME psychic `threats', you'll get
                                              sunken…!"

                                              You have a major ego problem as well. Capital "ME"? You have sunk
                                              yourself with this already. You will not attain to the things you speak
                                              and read of if you think in terms of childish ego squabbles.

                                              But look forward to something "red". . . . . . . . .(?)

                                              temhamitnA.
                                            • carol
                                              Peace; man! ... get ... speak
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Oct 9, 2006
                                                Peace; man!

                                                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Hello,
                                                >
                                                > OK, organicethics, but akash = unconcsious is a major blunder of
                                                > childish proportions. You are embarressing.
                                                >
                                                > You say:
                                                >
                                                > "But rest assured, that if you send ME psychic `threats', you'll
                                                get
                                                > sunken…!"
                                                >
                                                > You have a major ego problem as well. Capital "ME"? You have sunk
                                                > yourself with this already. You will not attain to the things you
                                                speak
                                                > and read of if you think in terms of childish ego squabbles.
                                                >
                                                > But look forward to something "red". . . . . . . . .(?)
                                                >
                                                > temhamitnA.
                                                >
                                              • carol
                                                Bradford wrote: `Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point Though I
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Oct 10, 2006
                                                  Bradford wrote:

                                                  `Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate
                                                  and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point'


                                                  Though I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having
                                                  embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral' beauty in
                                                  my 32th year, (which incidentally has me still marveling), it's
                                                  worth noting that I know that at that time, I wasn't ripe to absorb
                                                  the `living' meaning of the statement concerning Zarathustra and
                                                  Christ.

                                                  (Of course, Z's soul/spirit's participation in the mystery was quite
                                                  THE exception)

                                                  For this, I was only really able to incorporate into my conscious
                                                  experience, in a living way, without hesitation, only recently, just
                                                  past my mid forties.

                                                  Would YOU say that this `mature' experience points towards the
                                                  reasons why Steiner insisted on individuals waiting until their
                                                  forties before assuming an `authoritative' voice vis ä vis
                                                  spiritual science?

                                                  As opposed to creating (deciphering) theories/art forms from
                                                  within `the lively experience of youth'.

                                                  Here are two distinct life stages which are spaced out and differ in
                                                  caracter: exceptional creative inspiration within (the fountain of)
                                                  youth and unwavering conscious soul experience (through having
                                                  processed enough complex `life' experiences and also from possessing
                                                  an intuitive experience of mortality)

                                                  Would you like to elaborate on these ideas? Carol.

                                                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                                  <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Godot wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school
                                                  > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use
                                                  > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                                  > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                                  > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                                                  > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                                  > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound your
                                                  > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                                                  this
                                                  > not so?"
                                                  >
                                                  > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                                  > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                                                  > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                                                  > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                                  > Things."
                                                  >
                                                  > Bradford comments;
                                                  >
                                                  > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                                                  > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal. But
                                                  we
                                                  > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                                  point
                                                  > means better than the current Jungians.
                                                  >
                                                  > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age 33.
                                                  > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the world
                                                  > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                                                  Declaration
                                                  > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing Religious
                                                  > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                                  >
                                                  > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                                                  > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                                  >
                                                  > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                                  >
                                                  > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                                  >
                                                  > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                                  >
                                                  > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space of
                                                  > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become one
                                                  of
                                                  > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                                  > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                                  three
                                                  > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                                  > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                                  > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                                  >
                                                  > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                                  >
                                                  > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                                  > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of Biography.
                                                  > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                                  seven-
                                                  > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the archetype
                                                  > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                                  particularly
                                                  > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                                                  The
                                                  > book goes into detail about the need to understand the importance
                                                  of
                                                  > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                                  > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                                  >
                                                  > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                                                  chart
                                                  > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea, and
                                                  > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived and
                                                  I
                                                  > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                                                  > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                                  > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                                  >
                                                  > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work and
                                                  > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain even
                                                  > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a Mercury
                                                  > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."
                                                  >
                                                  > Bradford concludes;
                                                  >
                                                  > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously
                                                  we
                                                  > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                                  with
                                                  > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and the
                                                  > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart; the
                                                  > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                                  > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                                  > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                                                  > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33 years
                                                  > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                                  1933
                                                  > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                                                  Ahriman
                                                  > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                                  >
                                                  > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is exposed
                                                  to
                                                  > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                                  recrossed
                                                  > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to what
                                                  we
                                                  > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                                                  elemental
                                                  > intensity and GUILT.
                                                  >
                                                  > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                                  > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                                  > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces that
                                                  > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I AM,
                                                  > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away from
                                                  > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                                                  when
                                                  > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                                  > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of the
                                                  > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                                  > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math
                                                  and
                                                  > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world and
                                                  > Man.
                                                  >
                                                  > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as possible
                                                  > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                                  > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                                  > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                                                  incubate
                                                  > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point.
                                                  > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                                                  Christ
                                                  > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                                                  > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away, looking
                                                  > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                                                  developed
                                                  > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                                                  > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and as
                                                  > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra to
                                                  > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts
                                                  the
                                                  > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                                                  Zarathustra
                                                  > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest prepared
                                                  > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this loving,
                                                  > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                                                  Elohim
                                                  > Christ.
                                                  >
                                                  > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                                                  Zarathustra
                                                  > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                                                  clarified
                                                  > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom ever
                                                  > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                                  > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a gift
                                                  to
                                                  > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine
                                                  all
                                                  > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                                  > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched althought
                                                  > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                                  > mysteries to us.
                                                  >
                                                  > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                                                  > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                                                  live
                                                  > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                                                  Take
                                                  > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region of
                                                  > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this I
                                                  > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                                                  the
                                                  > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world over
                                                  > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds, Goethe,
                                                  > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                                                  Christ
                                                  > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                                  family
                                                  > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                                  family!!
                                                  > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                                  > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                                  > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                                                  > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                                  with
                                                  > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                                  > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                                                  titles
                                                  > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative of
                                                  > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                                  >
                                                  > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                                  science
                                                  > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at age
                                                  30
                                                  > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting confrontation
                                                  > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                                  > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                                  > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say
                                                  we
                                                  > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list of
                                                  > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                                                  places
                                                  > in the bushes.
                                                  >
                                                  > This is all that you need to remember about the difference between
                                                  > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                                  >
                                                • holderlin66
                                                  carol wrote: ...I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral beauty in my 32th year, (which
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Oct 15, 2006
                                                    carol wrote:

                                                    "...I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having
                                                    embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral' beauty in
                                                    my 32th year, (which incidentally has me still marveling), it's
                                                    worth noting that I know that at that time, I wasn't ripe to absorb
                                                    the `living' meaning of the statement concerning Zarathustra and
                                                    Christ.

                                                    (Of course, Z's soul/spirit's participation in the mystery was quite
                                                    THE exception)

                                                    For this, I was only really able to incorporate into my conscious
                                                    experience, in a living way, without hesitation, only recently, just
                                                    past my mid forties.

                                                    Would YOU say that this `mature' experience points towards the
                                                    reasons why Steiner insisted on individuals waiting until their
                                                    forties before assuming an `authoritative' voice vis ä vis
                                                    spiritual science?

                                                    As opposed to creating (deciphering) theories/art forms from
                                                    within `the lively experience of youth'.

                                                    Here are two distinct life stages which are spaced out and differ in
                                                    caracter: exceptional creative inspiration within (the fountain of)
                                                    youth and unwavering conscious soul experience (through having
                                                    processed enough complex `life' experiences and also from possessing
                                                    an intuitive experience of mortality)

                                                    Would you like to elaborate on these ideas? Carol."

                                                    Bradford comments;

                                                    Carol it is great to hear your spiritual voice. (As thought is
                                                    spiritual activity). For those of us who are not Zarathustra, we can
                                                    dig up example after biographical example of how our unprepared, and
                                                    semi-karmically prepared I AM's start facing our instincts at the 30
                                                    to the 35 mark. Distinctly we can fetch Bill Gates and we can note
                                                    how his attention, mission, destiny, certainly centered on the
                                                    objectification of the Global Intelligence that could well up, gush
                                                    upwards from the deep gorge of untapped human vision, in
                                                    connectedness everywhere. Thus all those particpating, if they have
                                                    the means, would be faced with a storm of hidden information, vast
                                                    fingertip libraries of humanity, Porn, and instincts, raw thought,
                                                    Orwellian thought, Luciferically watered down or poison pill laced
                                                    thought. Ahrimanic data, numbers, cold cruel pictures of human
                                                    beastliness, the worst and most hideous beastliness in all of the
                                                    beastly kingdoms.

                                                    With this information it is not hard to see with senstive artistic
                                                    imagination and intuition how hardened, rigidified and icy
                                                    standpoints congeal to Horns. Ten horns or horned beasts that
                                                    represent rigidified, forming slowly, Corporate Political systems
                                                    that calcify into overall materialistic mind sets, that sit
                                                    comfortably in tens of millions.

                                                    When you add nano technology and how ahrimanic forces which have the
                                                    intent to rip fragments of cloned humanity out of the karmic star
                                                    fabric, such a fantasy as depicted in films like the "The
                                                    Island" "Gattica" "Blade Runner" ...where humans are grown for
                                                    replacement and organ parts, for Gold and Immortality and serve the
                                                    calcification of the disease avarice, the entire Corporate anti-
                                                    Sophia realm of The Whore of Babylon, isn't even hard to picture it
                                                    developing out of human instincts the way John saw it.

                                                    John did the best he could to describe it, rising up out of the
                                                    intinctual morass of humanity, as a great congealing Anti-Human
                                                    factoring.John's Whore of Babylon was the Shadow on Earth of bright
                                                    Sophia Star wisdom fallen into human snares. Steiner updated and
                                                    filled in some of the blanks that John left as theory and Steiner
                                                    brought us into current Michael Speak which is different than
                                                    Orwell's NEWSPEAK. At the Dawn of the Age of Light we were given
                                                    updates and clarifications of all that was semi clouded and confused
                                                    coming from human I AM events.

                                                    "Newspeak was the official language of Oceania and had been devised
                                                    to meet the ideological needs of Ingsoc, or English Socialism. In
                                                    the year 1984 there was not as yet anyone who used Newspeak as his
                                                    sole means of communication, either in speech or writing. The
                                                    leading articles in The Times were written in it, but could only be
                                                    carried out by a specialist. It was expected that Newspeak would
                                                    have finally superseded Oldspeak (or Standard English) by about the
                                                    year 2050"

                                                    Seattle Times:

                                                    "The use of powerful and well-placed words and images worked for
                                                    INGSOC. Its slogan — war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is
                                                    strength — fits like a truncheon in the cradle of shattered bone..."

                                                    Bradford continues;

                                                    Intelligent human beings don't have to be reminded that Orwell did
                                                    us a service in writing his "1984". Grotesque human regime examples
                                                    can be given that go back to France and Phillip the Fair that
                                                    overturned anything to do with the feeble voice of the Magna Carta,
                                                    on through the regime of the Inquisition and the torturing of the
                                                    Templars giving us a mid-line of 1332 that lasted well beyond that
                                                    period, to Stalin, Nazi Germany, Mao, and again the little section
                                                    of time at the dawn of the 21st century, reveals once again the
                                                    activiation of this Karmic Group, intent on ripping fragments of the
                                                    I AM out of the Star patterns. How?

                                                    Shakespeare and all that we could, if we so desired, to understand
                                                    regarding why Ahriman wishes to destroy the tool of human karma by
                                                    creating on Earth cloned replications that rip human karma to
                                                    shreds, is simply there before us in the little poetic tragedy of
                                                    the Kennedy brothers and Romeo and Juliet.

                                                    "When he shall die take him and cut him out into stars and he shall
                                                    make the face of heaven so fine that all the world will be in love
                                                    with night and pay no worship to the garish sun." Quoting
                                                    Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, Robert Kennedy at the Democratic
                                                    National Convention, 8/27/64." TAKE HIM AND CUT HIM OUT INTO STARS.
                                                    As we do when we cut little stars that are all the same because we
                                                    have scissors and we can see how the folded paper is all linked into
                                                    a whole.

                                                    Bradford concludes;

                                                    Carol and I agree that ripening, the immense instincts, those same
                                                    instincts that rose up when the milkman in Amish PA. America, at 32,
                                                    took innocent girls hostage because he could not bear to see what
                                                    the I AM of his conscience knew of his own dark, dark, intent. And
                                                    what happens when we humans get to know all the secrets of our dark,
                                                    dark intents, that are swirling in the depths of our instincts? Bill
                                                    Gates opened these vast doors to the gurgling flood gates and surge
                                                    of all that is wisdom in humanity, our own Steiner Internet and
                                                    Archive had to struggle with complacent Anthros and still does, to
                                                    meet the vast instincts humanity carries and antidote them with
                                                    Michael Speak or Michael thought.

                                                    We know that adults on the path of Initiation Schooling get to know
                                                    that these dark intincts are not meant to hit the intellect with
                                                    their raw intensity without some preparation. That at 29 at the
                                                    Saturn return, to well into the Jupiter and Saturn age of our
                                                    biography we are entrusted to digest and ripen the kind of balance
                                                    of wisdom that does not place the human being alone with his demons
                                                    but gives him or her the tools of the Consciousness Soul.

                                                    But Bill Gates opened the world to vast, vast instincts, insights,
                                                    wisdom and tools....And Bill Gates was a mere 33 to 35, and if we
                                                    just look at Bill Gates Mission, we understand that if we take the
                                                    POF and open the mystery...Now kids, open the mystery literally
                                                    means looking down into the dark well of our deepest instincts, and
                                                    the roots of our I AM. What truly disturbs one and presents one with
                                                    another aspect of looking down the Well of the I AM and looking at
                                                    the overview and understanding the horrific courage it requires to
                                                    ripen and mature... there is the example of the very well we are
                                                    speaking about, in the film, "The Ring".

                                                    Naturally it is but a film. It is but a depiction of how we
                                                    penetrate to a most horrific mystery. A mystery that has addictive
                                                    power to it. It is a disturbing little film, "The Ring". Aside from
                                                    looking down the deep well and ripening our intelligence to face the
                                                    problems we have opened up, (opened a can of worms) the POF and all
                                                    aspects of Spiritual Science call upon the student to gain their I
                                                    AM compass orientation from the depths of looking into the deepest
                                                    mysteries of the Well and roots and connections to the depths of the
                                                    Earth.

                                                    Take for instance that the Water that Christ changes into wine that
                                                    is drawn from a well, and put in clay jars, six or seven clay jars.
                                                    Now Christ is going to first change this water from the deep bowels
                                                    of the etheric earth, into wine. Ah but he doesn't just decide to do
                                                    that, there is a wedding and a surge of joy and what we call
                                                    happiness and intoxication, a point where lots of people get
                                                    together, contribute and support, offer freely their gifts to some
                                                    couple who is being wed. An astral surge runs through the close knit
                                                    wedding guests, they make bread, contribute tables, sow fabrics, get
                                                    dressed up, the farmer planted, the plants grew, the meals were
                                                    cooked, the bread and flat breads were made from the flower, the
                                                    donkey's turned the stone wheel that ground the wheat. Vegtables
                                                    helped, gnomes helped, salamandars served the Donkey's, fires and
                                                    ovens had been made and trees grew fruits and were cultivated by
                                                    human hands and olives were sprinkled over the greens and the bread
                                                    dipped in the olive oils. These utter basics are all contributed,
                                                    not from a super-market but rather are all called forth from the
                                                    treasure of old instinctive causes for celebration, community and
                                                    human union. Instinctive Causes for celebration.

                                                    Christ adds to this a new force where enthusiasm and joy change the
                                                    entire chemical forces in the clay jars, and the water drawn from
                                                    the deep regions of the Earth, in a small etheric science miracle, a
                                                    new cognitive force has been changed by the I AM's participation.
                                                    The I AM has plenty of sweet instincts in the well and in these
                                                    days, what seems to sell are plenty of bitter forces that lurk like
                                                    monsters in the well as well. Steiner was an I AM initiate and he
                                                    like the rest of us was living in a science age where the I AM was
                                                    not even on the table as a consideration. Steiner as an I AM
                                                    initiate went down the well and brought out Biodynamics, Waldorf
                                                    Education, Eurythmy and the full fledged Science of the I AM in
                                                    potential.

                                                    And one more thing, the film "The Ring" centers around the problem
                                                    of one child who has something so potent, say, a complete 24/7 wide
                                                    awake, immortal force in her that cannot die and cannot be removed,
                                                    it is an acute problem that can either be understood as our immortal
                                                    core or rejected and become the curse and bane of humanity by
                                                    rejecting it. We cannot kill this immortal core. We can only learn
                                                    to ripen our courage to grasp how each individual child can be given
                                                    the tools and foundation to cope with the great thoughts of the
                                                    world and navigate and be given a compass that holds to a true
                                                    Spiritual North.

                                                    Naturally adults who are morally ripened individual are able to
                                                    educate children and one of the Miracles of the Science of the
                                                    Consciousness Soul is the conscious curriculum structure of Waldorf
                                                    Education. Biodynamics is another raw Science of the Consciousness
                                                    Soul and a victory of the I AM in the instincts of the Earth and
                                                    Stars. Waldorf Education extends into the Angelic intervention where
                                                    humans can plant the tools of consciousness that will be needed so
                                                    that by age 32 to 72 humanity can ripen the immense depth of the I
                                                    AM. Because as Carol has said, we are not Zarathustra's. We are slow
                                                    and stubborn humans.

                                                    Zarathustra had consolidated most of his former faculties by age
                                                    TWELVE. So Zarathustra's twelve is like our age 30 in terms of the I
                                                    Am ratio of speed and growth compared to the physical body of seven
                                                    years and the etheric body and the astral body and finally the speed
                                                    of the I AM are all differently paced clocks in the human psyche.
                                                  • carol
                                                    Dear Bradford, thank you for your `rich response. I especially enjoyed reading your conclusion in it s entirety. What truly disturbs one and presents one
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Oct 15, 2006
                                                      Dear Bradford, thank you for your `rich' response. I especially
                                                      enjoyed reading your conclusion in it's entirety.


                                                      "What truly disturbs one and presents one with
                                                      another aspect of looking down the Well of the I AM and looking at
                                                      the overview and understanding the horrific courage it requires to
                                                      ripen and mature..."

                                                      This statement touches me deeply because at the age of 22, I was
                                                      subject to a sudden metamorphoses; karmic events triggered me to
                                                      abruptly abandon the use of recreational drugs; I was almost
                                                      instantly placed in the higher worlds without education. I used all
                                                      the ingenuity, energy of my youth and all internalized experiences;
                                                      to climb the great mountain of my soul's and eternal self's wish for
                                                      me as if I was a penniless orphan, on hands and knees…

                                                      Bradford, the heavens gave me `living' Drama for which I am
                                                      eternally grateful and now, quite attached to as well. Carol.



                                                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                                      <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > carol wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > "...I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having
                                                      > embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral' beauty in
                                                      > my 32th year, (which incidentally has me still marveling), it's
                                                      > worth noting that I know that at that time, I wasn't ripe to absorb
                                                      > the `living' meaning of the statement concerning Zarathustra and
                                                      > Christ.
                                                      >
                                                      > (Of course, Z's soul/spirit's participation in the mystery was
                                                      quite
                                                      > THE exception)
                                                      >
                                                      > For this, I was only really able to incorporate into my conscious
                                                      > experience, in a living way, without hesitation, only recently,
                                                      just
                                                      > past my mid forties.
                                                      >
                                                      > Would YOU say that this `mature' experience points towards the
                                                      > reasons why Steiner insisted on individuals waiting until their
                                                      > forties before assuming an `authoritative' voice vis ä vis
                                                      > spiritual science?
                                                      >
                                                      > As opposed to creating (deciphering) theories/art forms from
                                                      > within `the lively experience of youth'.
                                                      >
                                                      > Here are two distinct life stages which are spaced out and differ
                                                      in
                                                      > caracter: exceptional creative inspiration within (the fountain of)
                                                      > youth and unwavering conscious soul experience (through having
                                                      > processed enough complex `life' experiences and also from
                                                      possessing
                                                      > an intuitive experience of mortality)
                                                      >
                                                      > Would you like to elaborate on these ideas? Carol."
                                                      >
                                                      > Bradford comments;
                                                      >
                                                      > Carol it is great to hear your spiritual voice. (As thought is
                                                      > spiritual activity). For those of us who are not Zarathustra, we
                                                      can
                                                      > dig up example after biographical example of how our unprepared,
                                                      and
                                                      > semi-karmically prepared I AM's start facing our instincts at the
                                                      30
                                                      > to the 35 mark. Distinctly we can fetch Bill Gates and we can note
                                                      > how his attention, mission, destiny, certainly centered on the
                                                      > objectification of the Global Intelligence that could well up,
                                                      gush
                                                      > upwards from the deep gorge of untapped human vision, in
                                                      > connectedness everywhere. Thus all those particpating, if they
                                                      have
                                                      > the means, would be faced with a storm of hidden information, vast
                                                      > fingertip libraries of humanity, Porn, and instincts, raw thought,
                                                      > Orwellian thought, Luciferically watered down or poison pill laced
                                                      > thought. Ahrimanic data, numbers, cold cruel pictures of human
                                                      > beastliness, the worst and most hideous beastliness in all of the
                                                      > beastly kingdoms.
                                                      >
                                                      > With this information it is not hard to see with senstive artistic
                                                      > imagination and intuition how hardened, rigidified and icy
                                                      > standpoints congeal to Horns. Ten horns or horned beasts that
                                                      > represent rigidified, forming slowly, Corporate Political systems
                                                      > that calcify into overall materialistic mind sets, that sit
                                                      > comfortably in tens of millions.
                                                      >
                                                      > When you add nano technology and how ahrimanic forces which have
                                                      the
                                                      > intent to rip fragments of cloned humanity out of the karmic star
                                                      > fabric, such a fantasy as depicted in films like the "The
                                                      > Island" "Gattica" "Blade Runner" ...where humans are grown for
                                                      > replacement and organ parts, for Gold and Immortality and serve
                                                      the
                                                      > calcification of the disease avarice, the entire Corporate anti-
                                                      > Sophia realm of The Whore of Babylon, isn't even hard to picture
                                                      it
                                                      > developing out of human instincts the way John saw it.
                                                      >
                                                      > John did the best he could to describe it, rising up out of the
                                                      > intinctual morass of humanity, as a great congealing Anti-Human
                                                      > factoring.John's Whore of Babylon was the Shadow on Earth of
                                                      bright
                                                      > Sophia Star wisdom fallen into human snares. Steiner updated and
                                                      > filled in some of the blanks that John left as theory and Steiner
                                                      > brought us into current Michael Speak which is different than
                                                      > Orwell's NEWSPEAK. At the Dawn of the Age of Light we were given
                                                      > updates and clarifications of all that was semi clouded and
                                                      confused
                                                      > coming from human I AM events.
                                                      >
                                                      > "Newspeak was the official language of Oceania and had been
                                                      devised
                                                      > to meet the ideological needs of Ingsoc, or English Socialism. In
                                                      > the year 1984 there was not as yet anyone who used Newspeak as his
                                                      > sole means of communication, either in speech or writing. The
                                                      > leading articles in The Times were written in it, but could only
                                                      be
                                                      > carried out by a specialist. It was expected that Newspeak would
                                                      > have finally superseded Oldspeak (or Standard English) by about
                                                      the
                                                      > year 2050"
                                                      >
                                                      > Seattle Times:
                                                      >
                                                      > "The use of powerful and well-placed words and images worked for
                                                      > INGSOC. Its slogan — war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance
                                                      is
                                                      > strength — fits like a truncheon in the cradle of shattered
                                                      bone..."
                                                      >
                                                      > Bradford continues;
                                                      >
                                                      > Intelligent human beings don't have to be reminded that Orwell did
                                                      > us a service in writing his "1984". Grotesque human regime
                                                      examples
                                                      > can be given that go back to France and Phillip the Fair that
                                                      > overturned anything to do with the feeble voice of the Magna
                                                      Carta,
                                                      > on through the regime of the Inquisition and the torturing of the
                                                      > Templars giving us a mid-line of 1332 that lasted well beyond that
                                                      > period, to Stalin, Nazi Germany, Mao, and again the little section
                                                      > of time at the dawn of the 21st century, reveals once again the
                                                      > activiation of this Karmic Group, intent on ripping fragments of
                                                      the
                                                      > I AM out of the Star patterns. How?
                                                      >
                                                      > Shakespeare and all that we could, if we so desired, to understand
                                                      > regarding why Ahriman wishes to destroy the tool of human karma by
                                                      > creating on Earth cloned replications that rip human karma to
                                                      > shreds, is simply there before us in the little poetic tragedy of
                                                      > the Kennedy brothers and Romeo and Juliet.
                                                      >
                                                      > "When he shall die take him and cut him out into stars and he
                                                      shall
                                                      > make the face of heaven so fine that all the world will be in love
                                                      > with night and pay no worship to the garish sun." Quoting
                                                      > Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, Robert Kennedy at the Democratic
                                                      > National Convention, 8/27/64." TAKE HIM AND CUT HIM OUT INTO
                                                      STARS.
                                                      > As we do when we cut little stars that are all the same because we
                                                      > have scissors and we can see how the folded paper is all linked
                                                      into
                                                      > a whole.
                                                      >
                                                      > Bradford concludes;
                                                      >
                                                      > Carol and I agree that ripening, the immense instincts, those same
                                                      > instincts that rose up when the milkman in Amish PA. America, at
                                                      32,
                                                      > took innocent girls hostage because he could not bear to see what
                                                      > the I AM of his conscience knew of his own dark, dark, intent. And
                                                      > what happens when we humans get to know all the secrets of our
                                                      dark,
                                                      > dark intents, that are swirling in the depths of our instincts?
                                                      Bill
                                                      > Gates opened these vast doors to the gurgling flood gates and
                                                      surge
                                                      > of all that is wisdom in humanity, our own Steiner Internet and
                                                      > Archive had to struggle with complacent Anthros and still does, to
                                                      > meet the vast instincts humanity carries and antidote them with
                                                      > Michael Speak or Michael thought.
                                                      >
                                                      > We know that adults on the path of Initiation Schooling get to
                                                      know
                                                      > that these dark intincts are not meant to hit the intellect with
                                                      > their raw intensity without some preparation. That at 29 at the
                                                      > Saturn return, to well into the Jupiter and Saturn age of our
                                                      > biography we are entrusted to digest and ripen the kind of balance
                                                      > of wisdom that does not place the human being alone with his
                                                      demons
                                                      > but gives him or her the tools of the Consciousness Soul.
                                                      >
                                                      > But Bill Gates opened the world to vast, vast instincts, insights,
                                                      > wisdom and tools....And Bill Gates was a mere 33 to 35, and if we
                                                      > just look at Bill Gates Mission, we understand that if we take the
                                                      > POF and open the mystery...Now kids, open the mystery literally
                                                      > means looking down into the dark well of our deepest instincts,
                                                      and
                                                      > the roots of our I AM. What truly disturbs one and presents one
                                                      with
                                                      > another aspect of looking down the Well of the I AM and looking at
                                                      > the overview and understanding the horrific courage it requires to
                                                      > ripen and mature... there is the example of the very well we are
                                                      > speaking about, in the film, "The Ring".
                                                      >
                                                      > Naturally it is but a film. It is but a depiction of how we
                                                      > penetrate to a most horrific mystery. A mystery that has addictive
                                                      > power to it. It is a disturbing little film, "The Ring". Aside
                                                      from
                                                      > looking down the deep well and ripening our intelligence to face
                                                      the
                                                      > problems we have opened up, (opened a can of worms) the POF and
                                                      all
                                                      > aspects of Spiritual Science call upon the student to gain their I
                                                      > AM compass orientation from the depths of looking into the deepest
                                                      > mysteries of the Well and roots and connections to the depths of
                                                      the
                                                      > Earth.
                                                      >
                                                      > Take for instance that the Water that Christ changes into wine
                                                      that
                                                      > is drawn from a well, and put in clay jars, six or seven clay
                                                      jars.
                                                      > Now Christ is going to first change this water from the deep
                                                      bowels
                                                      > of the etheric earth, into wine. Ah but he doesn't just decide to
                                                      do
                                                      > that, there is a wedding and a surge of joy and what we call
                                                      > happiness and intoxication, a point where lots of people get
                                                      > together, contribute and support, offer freely their gifts to some
                                                      > couple who is being wed. An astral surge runs through the close
                                                      knit
                                                      > wedding guests, they make bread, contribute tables, sow fabrics,
                                                      get
                                                      > dressed up, the farmer planted, the plants grew, the meals were
                                                      > cooked, the bread and flat breads were made from the flower, the
                                                      > donkey's turned the stone wheel that ground the wheat. Vegtables
                                                      > helped, gnomes helped, salamandars served the Donkey's, fires and
                                                      > ovens had been made and trees grew fruits and were cultivated by
                                                      > human hands and olives were sprinkled over the greens and the
                                                      bread
                                                      > dipped in the olive oils. These utter basics are all contributed,
                                                      > not from a super-market but rather are all called forth from the
                                                      > treasure of old instinctive causes for celebration, community and
                                                      > human union. Instinctive Causes for celebration.
                                                      >
                                                      > Christ adds to this a new force where enthusiasm and joy change
                                                      the
                                                      > entire chemical forces in the clay jars, and the water drawn from
                                                      > the deep regions of the Earth, in a small etheric science miracle,
                                                      a
                                                      > new cognitive force has been changed by the I AM's participation.
                                                      > The I AM has plenty of sweet instincts in the well and in these
                                                      > days, what seems to sell are plenty of bitter forces that lurk
                                                      like
                                                      > monsters in the well as well. Steiner was an I AM initiate and he
                                                      > like the rest of us was living in a science age where the I AM was
                                                      > not even on the table as a consideration. Steiner as an I AM
                                                      > initiate went down the well and brought out Biodynamics, Waldorf
                                                      > Education, Eurythmy and the full fledged Science of the I AM in
                                                      > potential.
                                                      >
                                                      > And one more thing, the film "The Ring" centers around the problem
                                                      > of one child who has something so potent, say, a complete 24/7
                                                      wide
                                                      > awake, immortal force in her that cannot die and cannot be
                                                      removed,
                                                      > it is an acute problem that can either be understood as our
                                                      immortal
                                                      > core or rejected and become the curse and bane of humanity by
                                                      > rejecting it. We cannot kill this immortal core. We can only learn
                                                      > to ripen our courage to grasp how each individual child can be
                                                      given
                                                      > the tools and foundation to cope with the great thoughts of the
                                                      > world and navigate and be given a compass that holds to a true
                                                      > Spiritual North.
                                                      >
                                                      > Naturally adults who are morally ripened individual are able to
                                                      > educate children and one of the Miracles of the Science of the
                                                      > Consciousness Soul is the conscious curriculum structure of
                                                      Waldorf
                                                      > Education. Biodynamics is another raw Science of the Consciousness
                                                      > Soul and a victory of the I AM in the instincts of the Earth and
                                                      > Stars. Waldorf Education extends into the Angelic intervention
                                                      where
                                                      > humans can plant the tools of consciousness that will be needed so
                                                      > that by age 32 to 72 humanity can ripen the immense depth of the I
                                                      > AM. Because as Carol has said, we are not Zarathustra's. We are
                                                      slow
                                                      > and stubborn humans.
                                                      >
                                                      > Zarathustra had consolidated most of his former faculties by age
                                                      > TWELVE. So Zarathustra's twelve is like our age 30 in terms of the
                                                      I
                                                      > Am ratio of speed and growth compared to the physical body of
                                                      seven
                                                      > years and the etheric body and the astral body and finally the
                                                      speed
                                                      > of the I AM are all differently paced clocks in the human psyche.
                                                      >
                                                    • holderlin66
                                                      The tell tale signs of a hot choleric character profile, who merges with fire, the fire of ideas, the candle flame, and writes a wonderful play on that flame
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Nov 19, 2006
                                                        The tell tale signs of a hot choleric character profile, who merges
                                                        with fire, the fire of ideas, the candle flame, and writes a
                                                        wonderful play on that flame called the Candle Maker that had
                                                        ignited like a lit flame in his intellect. Bruno represents living
                                                        and dying by the fiery temperament and character of the choleric
                                                        thinker, doer, who feeds off resistance and human ignorance in the
                                                        dawning age of mighty light that ripped through his thinking.

                                                        Bruno and Waldorf education understands human realities as the basis
                                                        of grasping that Bruno was born near the active sulphur spewing
                                                        volcano Vesuvius and we can see how powerfully this environment
                                                        infused into his blood the fire salamanders from our previous
                                                        temperament studies. When we actually understand the clues of
                                                        various individual destinies, we can also take into consideration
                                                        where an individual grew up and was born and what impressed his
                                                        early etheric development. Here we see what impressed Giordano
                                                        Bruno's early etheric development.

                                                        http://pages.zoom.co.uk/thuban/html/bruno.html

                                                        "In the year 1548 an Italian boy was born in the little town of
                                                        Nola, not far from Vesuvius. Although, he spent the greater part of
                                                        his life in hostile and foreign countries he was drawn back to his
                                                        home at the end of his travels and after he had written nearly
                                                        twenty books.

                                                        When he was thirteen years old he began to go to school at the
                                                        Monastery of Saint Domenico. It was a famous place. Thomas Aquinas,
                                                        himself a Dominican, had lived there and taught. Within a few years
                                                        Bruno had become a Dominican priest.

                                                        It was not long before the monks of Saint Dominico began to learn
                                                        something about the extraordinary enthusiasm of their young
                                                        colleague. He was frank, outspoken and lacking in reticence. It was
                                                        not long before he got himself into trouble. It was evident that
                                                        this boy could not be made to fit into Dominican grooves. One of
                                                        the first things that a student has to learn is to give the teacher
                                                        the answers that the teacher wants. The average teacher is the
                                                        preserver of the ancient land marks. The students are his audience.
                                                        They applaud but they must not innovate. They must learn to labor
                                                        and to wait. It was not Bruno's behavior but his opinions that got
                                                        him into trouble.

                                                        He ran away from school, from his home town, from his own country
                                                        and tried to find among strangers and foreigners a congenial
                                                        atmosphere for his intellectual integrity that he could not find at
                                                        home. It is difficult not to get sentimental about Bruno. He was a
                                                        man without a country and, finally, without a church.

                                                        Bruno was interested in the nature of ideas. Although the name was
                                                        not yet invented it will be perfectly proper to dub Bruno as an
                                                        epistemologist, or as a pioneer Semanticist. He takes fresh stock
                                                        of the human mind."

                                                        http://snowbarsk.autoklad.com/images/zasimovich/sculpture/5.jpg

                                                        Choleric type;

                                                        Now the hot blooded and fiery choleric, can be found in Emergency
                                                        Rooms and in Medics everywhere. They are not always fiery red-headed
                                                        carrot tops that always stare at you with 'come on, go ahead, I can
                                                        take ya' faces. That fire appears in the soft embering glow of
                                                        Steiner's in depth lectures, fiery Michael forces supercharged his
                                                        blood, where the warmth in his Iron and Light ignited spirit flares
                                                        that revealed clarity where there was gathering darkness. His words
                                                        rang as consecrated light in all directions. Fission, fusion and
                                                        Iron centered sun spirituality cooked Steiner's rich dishes with a
                                                        warm, kindled, human blaze.

                                                        But then again, on the battle front of life, saving lives, from fire
                                                        men and women to police and swat teams to search and rescue on the
                                                        high seas, to special forces teams, you hear the choleric
                                                        shout, 'GO, GO, GO, GO!'. Adrenaline junkies can be found working
                                                        rush hours in restaurants, on the cooking line in the heat of the
                                                        battle, where the grills spit fire right in their faces and they
                                                        spit back. Choleric fire is in all of us, even Tiger Woods breaks
                                                        from his Zen mode to get really pissed off sometimes.

                                                        "Some people – and all narcissists – are addicted to excitement, to
                                                        the adrenaline rush, to the danger inevitably and invariably
                                                        involved. They are the adrenaline junkies. All narcissists are
                                                        adrenaline junkies – but not all adrenaline junkies are narcissists.

                                                        Thus, an adrenaline junkie must have a supply, a feed, which always
                                                        comes with invented excitement, real or invented drama or emotional
                                                        drama queens that have choleric forces in their feeling life. We can
                                                        understand that choleric forces or any of the other temperaments can
                                                        lodge themselves, not only in the will, but in the feeling, and in
                                                        the region of mental aggression. On the one hand solid Choleric
                                                        types are described as closer to the ground, Napoleonic and over
                                                        confident. In a pinch you know that a Choleric will cover your back,
                                                        fight to the death and remain in the game though anxiety is
                                                        everywhere and the odds against you are everywhere a great choleric
                                                        will be the last face you see before you pass out.
                                                      • holderlin66
                                                        Correction fire elemental of the choleric system http://phopro.ie/earthspirit/fire_salamander.jpg http://www.matrifocus.com/IMB05/images/fire-salamander-sm.jpg
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Nov 19, 2006
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