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Re: Amoeba contra Manu

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  • holderlin66
    opetha wrote: How can we--as anthroposophists and theosophists---reckon adequately the testament of a world evolving from rare spirit into dense matter over
    Message 1 of 30 , Oct 2, 2006
      opetha wrote:

      "How can we--as anthroposophists and theosophists---reckon adequately
      the testament of a world evolving from rare spirit into dense matter
      over seven Manvantaras with its almost spontaneous sets of races,
      when we have sedementary records, radio isotopics and and almost
      empirically-excepted law of natural selection and the big-bang?

      I know that a very dry scientist cannot glimpse into such astral-
      phenomena, spreading and belittling the evolutionists time-span as it
      does, but then so many fossil records justify environmental-
      adaptation in the species---though I'm not sure how bona fide the
      Hadean Earth theory is. . . .

      Is there some paradox we are not getting? that TIME itself has been
      changing too, maybe with a spiritual Earth not only falling into
      matter, but also into TIME, at point x, where history spans that way
      and the future this? "

      Bradford responds;

      I enjoyed some of your recent descriptions of New Age Lucifer and
      Ahriman offshoots. Gradually the student of spiritual science learns
      how to look at the various predominating soul forces, Michael
      Jackson makes a very good study in Luciferic tendencies, yet, the
      stinging luciferic/ahrimanic in Ann Coulter in the west, or the
      Luciferic/Ahrimanic in Karl Rove and the dominating Ahrimanic in
      Dick Cheney, slowly allows each human being a chance to measure
      ourselves and our own compromises. For the reason for this schooling
      isn't to accuse others of anything, but rather to be very conscious
      of our own mixed bag of tricks, operative at all times and all
      places.

      Locating the high moral ground of where the Etheric Christ reality
      supports childhood, supports the etheric memory tableau of human
      striving, ages, Manvantaras and the entire Occult Science an Outline
      is where true science, not big bang nonsense or even carbon dating
      arises with clarity. Christ is in the very models of soul and spirit
      and in the very weaving forces that objectively hold the whole model
      of the human up to the light. And in that light of course weave the
      Ahrimanic and Luciferic in us and they are part of the whole needed
      reality in human endeavor. Christ and the Etheric Christ lives fully
      in the entire superstructure and intimacies of the model that our I
      AM is made of. What is clarity and what does a student of Spiritual
      Science encounter?

      Firstly we do encounter in ourselves and in the world the icy
      coldness of intellectual soul lies, (that is that we also can
      clearly locate one of the NINE not merely the SEVENFOLD forces of
      the micro I AM system, and this micro I AM system is a mini
      Manvantara, with one of the layers of soul in the term, INTELLECTUAL
      SOUL) and the general tendency of Lucifer to get stoned, get high
      and preserve the field of sexual Venusian mysteries, at least what
      we have termed here on Earth, Venusian mysteries. These mysteries of
      love have to do with Aphrodite Mysteries and fallen porn or awakened
      higher love, and the love of Freya or Good Friday or higher Love
      mysteries. These pertain literally to Dove mysteries. For it is true
      that earthy and good sex, sensual love and the entire endocrine
      system in the human being, is what we clearly and solidly understand
      when Christian Rosenkreuz saw Venus naked in "The Chymical Wedding
      of Christian Rosenkreuz". I can only suggest you do your research
      and do catch up to true science or work out specific questions.
      Everyone will still balk, resist, refuse due to their own etheric
      and astral squirming, to find other answers than Spiritual Science
      but it is in fact that Spiritual Science contains the Logos of the
      Etheric Christ thinking in it.

      But as I see it, GODOT, excuse me if I got your name wrong, it is so
      highly clear that stone, plant, animal and human stand there before
      your eyes and my eyes. That to produce the I Am from the Earth
      Manvantara ----- the ASTRAL body from the Old Moon Manvantara ------
      the ETHERIC BODY from the Sun evolution ------ and the physical body
      designed from ancient Saturn....When we clearly with scientific eyes
      look at the reality of these phases in, and pralayas that bring
      about the mix and phases on earth of mineral, plant, animal and
      human, there is no way not to see that the mineral has no etheric,
      that the plant has no astral body, (externalized in the insect
      kingdom) and the animal has no I AM or individualized thinking and
      memory capacity. People have to shake themselves out of their
      stupidity and bad education to grasp the clarity of this before our
      eyes. And it is expected that refusal, disbelief and inability to
      think because of subjective educational issues and subjective souls
      issues will continue to obstruct and block The Etheric Christ
      Sciences.

      But to overcome some of the lumbering aspects of the science of the
      Earth I AM system, we resort to how the Stars, not the big bang,
      which is utterly a stupid idea to imply that this all emerged as a
      bomb of chaos and haphazard EVOLUTION, really begs the question of
      what do you think Intelligent Design implies?

      According to Fundamentalism, Intelligent design is linked to
      Biblical Fundamentalism, creationism of 7 days of creation. Nonsense
      again!!! Theosophy was always closer to the understanding of
      Intelligent Design, but now we have to understand why certain
      Ahrimanic forces would insert the name INTELLIGENT DESIGN, which
      should apply to anything that Occult Science an Outline delivers,
      steal the term, and apply this to Fundamental Biblical Creationism.
      Creationism is Biblical reductionism. Creationism arises from what
      we in the west term the Cliff Notes for the dull and stupid, to
      include some facts...such as SEVEN DAYS. Then we come to what is
      this Seven and the Rainbow that Newton and Goethe argued over? And
      what does Light and what Steve Hale brought, light measured at
      186,000 miles pers second, have to do with our understanding of 24
      hour days and the lofty Elohim or Time jumping in the I AM. In other
      words is the model of a human, an angel an Archangel as well as
      animal, plant and stone, within the model of the whole family of
      MAN? Duh, it is!!!!!

      But because we are not children, the Ahrimanic and Luciferic have
      striven to retain these childish ideas and resist the Pauline
      Schooling of "When I was a Child, I read Biblical fairy tales that
      were way, way, way over my head," but gave little effort into
      understanding from Theosophy or Anthroposophy what is truly the
      meaning of INTELLIGENT DESIGN. Now we cannot use the word
      Intelligent Design because it was hyjacked by Luciferic church going
      ding-bats to be taught with utter LITERALISM and brainwashing to
      children.

      Meanwhile all that has brought about the new Etheric Christ
      education that fills the gap of old peasant wisdom in the previous
      Waldorf and Education thread, means that the vast Etheric Christ
      contains the cohesion of the Etheric thinking field of the organized
      unfolding system from far back and beyond our human insertion all
      the way to the present. Hijacking the term intelligent design makes
      Ahriman happy for it locks out real thinking. Those folks who are
      quietly serving Luciferic and Ahrimanic aims, don't even create the
      opportunity to really understand what Intelligent Design would mean.
      It traps these others in what we term the Sentient Soul corruption
      where Lucifer remains trapped in the giddy region of Sin, Sex and
      guilt of the old church values. Such dull and clunky thinking also
      serves the educational clumsiness of the Intellectual Soul which
      fuels every university and fuels as well the stupidity of our
      current political process.

      So then you ask about Amoeba and contra Manu it is a can of worms
      which each and everyone of us are required to unravel or else. Today
      we have stars over our heads. The reality is that the complex math
      configurations and gateway to the stars are part of the Angelic
      field operations of how each child is given a twelvefold, twelve
      pairs of cranial nerves that supplies the insertion of the spirit
      germ into the birth of the physical child and gives this child a
      star compass, an actual star compass in their grey matter and within
      the mathematical dead zone of the great Stars above us. This vast
      idea must be digested and that requires serious work. The Great
      Stars above us are part of the micro model of the great stars within
      us, that the Angelic community oversees when it helps to insert a
      human into the stream of TIME. Again, most exciting research that
      all begins to make sense, so that spiritual science students no
      longer have to entertain nonsense and bullshit as educational
      excuses for their failures to explain these insights. There is no
      excuse for us to not go about unraveling these mysteries.

      So imagine the stupidity of skipping over how Zarathustra planned
      his incarnation from Chaldea with the result of the Three Kings and
      the Jesus Deed. Imagine how we don't consider Jesus some visiting
      Avatar at all. The Christ Being Himself and every detail of His
      union with a Human, reflects the fact that the Human is made in the
      model of our elder brothers the gods.

      Zarathustra the Persian and Chaldea Initiate transended and worked
      way outside the Star field and worked directly with planning on how
      to insert himself into the Hebrew people so that Christ could ignite
      Himself within the Etheric and Ethnic forces of warmth within the
      Hebrew people and use that warmed iron rich blood to dive into the
      bones of Spirit Man. The planning and the star mastery that
      Zarathustra showed so dwarfs the dim bulbed science fiction of
      sending ourselves in little spaceships to Mars via fully failed NASA
      thinking. Or by looking directly into our own human system and
      dealing with the fact of our having a strong Mars force within us.
      Or the third option, is following the movements of Mars and
      understanding that we invaded Iraq and went hyper war mode when Mars
      was the closest to the Earth in som thousands of years. We must
      account for the TWELVEFOLD cranial nerve package that we observe in
      individuals who take their karma down to Earth and resolve issues of
      destiny under Karma and star compass capacities that they bear. If
      you don't understand these things about how the human nervous system
      and the 12 pairs of cranial nerves function as a thought and
      navigation tool for the birth date and birth of the child, you need
      to study more.

      These all reveal what? What do they reveal? They reveal that this
      Earth System, including the Stars above us, are fixed within the
      human cranial nerve package, known as our astral body, and within
      the Etheric Heart package of the human being. Therefore those stars
      out there and planets are part of the intimate human package. We
      grow this package of human capacities from the etheric heart of
      childhood to the astral heart to the mature and ripened I AM heart,
      the heart that is developed and was developed in Zarathustra/Jesus
      by age 30.

      The human being journeys out and expands out to the stars at death
      and shrinks and carries his star compass with him into Time as he is
      born into a physical form on Earth. To conclude, the mineral cannot
      say that; the plant cannot say that; the animal can partly say that;
      but to the human being, we are the Stars and we carry the Stars and
      we carry the entire Etheric Memory, that is carried now by the
      Etheric Christ and the Etheric Christ Event which we date at its
      strongest point of entry, Feb 27, 1933. The Etheric memory of
      Saturn, Sun, Old Moon, Earth evolution as the foundations of His
      Being....Now that is Science, anything short of that is chaotic
      nonsense taught everywhere on this planet and has to be sorted out
      by intelligent people. All we need is a few intelligent people.
      Luckily Spiritual Science calls forth intelligent people.

      And in every detail from animal to stone, to plant, we can look
      directly into the etheric cohesion and vast memory field as well as
      the individual memory tableau released at death, and we can find
      this etheric life and Light in the plant chemical digestion of light
      and the human blood's digestion of thought, light, life and and the
      so called qualities of light that appear in the thought world and
      enter the blood, when we consider Luciferic thought and Luciferic
      Light, Christ Etheric Light and Ahrimanic intellectual soul cunning
      and electricity and nerve light. This we do in His Name when we
      consider different qualities and effects of different types of Soul
      Light.

      Steiner had the great good fortune to travel with a true Paracelsus,
      herbalist who met him on a train, (later included as Felix and
      Felcita Balde in The Mystery Dramas) and the links to earth sciences
      awoke and were coaxed forward so that Steiner could understand the
      intimate organization of nature and bring his vision in line with
      reality. And that is the process, we all must do. Bring our sight in
      line with reality. I started out with Culpepper and Paracelsus with
      a small herb book in my hand comparing each tiny flower citizen. But
      I am nothing on the path. Steiner had already developed such
      powerful organizational logic fields in previous incarnations that
      when he incarnated with his gifted young sight, Steiner needed to
      anchor this sight deeply into the kingdom of Nature and that is why
      he met the Herbalist.

      We can approach Spiritual Science from any particular angle and it
      will make sense, but we also have to do particular extensive
      monitoring our flaws and soul diversion escapades that are stirred
      up just because we are encounter the solution to a thousand human
      riddles because of the Etheric Christ Event in our thinking.
    • carol
      The original post reminded me of reading about the eigth sphere in a lecture series called: Occult Movements in the 19th Century ; the french translation is
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 2, 2006
        The original post reminded me of reading about "the eigth sphere" in
        a lecture series called:
        "Occult Movements in the 19th Century"; the french translation
        is `Les dangers d'un occultisme matérialiste' which you probably can
        decipher meaning: the dangers of materialistic occultism. Does
        anyone want to comment on this?
        >
        > Bradford responds;
        >
        > I enjoyed some of your recent descriptions of New Age Lucifer and
        > Ahriman offshoots. Gradually the student of spiritual science
        learns
        > how to look at the various predominating soul forces, Michael
        > Jackson makes a very good study in Luciferic tendencies, yet, the
        > stinging luciferic/ahrimanic in Ann Coulter in the west, or the
        > Luciferic/Ahrimanic in Karl Rove and the dominating Ahrimanic in
        > Dick Cheney, slowly allows each human being a chance to measure
        > ourselves and our own compromises. For the reason for this
        schooling
        > isn't to accuse others of anything, but rather to be very
        conscious
        > of our own mixed bag of tricks, operative at all times and all
        > places.
        >
        > Locating the high moral ground of where the Etheric Christ reality
        > supports childhood, supports the etheric memory tableau of human
        > striving, ages, Manvantaras and the entire Occult Science an
        Outline
        > is where true science, not big bang nonsense or even carbon dating
        > arises with clarity. Christ is in the very models of soul and
        spirit
        > and in the very weaving forces that objectively hold the whole
        model
        > of the human up to the light. And in that light of course weave
        the
        > Ahrimanic and Luciferic in us and they are part of the whole
        needed
        > reality in human endeavor. Christ and the Etheric Christ lives
        fully
        > in the entire superstructure and intimacies of the model that our
        I
        > AM is made of. What is clarity and what does a student of
        Spiritual
        > Science encounter?
        >
        > Firstly we do encounter in ourselves and in the world the icy
        > coldness of intellectual soul lies, (that is that we also can
        > clearly locate one of the NINE not merely the SEVENFOLD forces of
        > the micro I AM system, and this micro I AM system is a mini
        > Manvantara, with one of the layers of soul in the term,
        INTELLECTUAL
        > SOUL) and the general tendency of Lucifer to get stoned, get high
        > and preserve the field of sexual Venusian mysteries, at least what
        > we have termed here on Earth, Venusian mysteries. These mysteries
        of
        > love have to do with Aphrodite Mysteries and fallen porn or
        awakened
        > higher love, and the love of Freya or Good Friday or higher Love
        > mysteries. These pertain literally to Dove mysteries. For it is
        true
        > that earthy and good sex, sensual love and the entire endocrine
        > system in the human being, is what we clearly and solidly
        understand
        > when Christian Rosenkreuz saw Venus naked in "The Chymical Wedding
        > of Christian Rosenkreuz". I can only suggest you do your research
        > and do catch up to true science or work out specific questions.
        > Everyone will still balk, resist, refuse due to their own etheric
        > and astral squirming, to find other answers than Spiritual Science
        > but it is in fact that Spiritual Science contains the Logos of the
        > Etheric Christ thinking in it.
        >
        > But as I see it, GODOT, excuse me if I got your name wrong, it is
        so
        > highly clear that stone, plant, animal and human stand there
        before
        > your eyes and my eyes. That to produce the I Am from the Earth
        > Manvantara ----- the ASTRAL body from the Old Moon Manvantara -----
        -
        > the ETHERIC BODY from the Sun evolution ------ and the physical
        body
        > designed from ancient Saturn....When we clearly with scientific
        eyes
        > look at the reality of these phases in, and pralayas that bring
        > about the mix and phases on earth of mineral, plant, animal and
        > human, there is no way not to see that the mineral has no etheric,
        > that the plant has no astral body, (externalized in the insect
        > kingdom) and the animal has no I AM or individualized thinking and
        > memory capacity. People have to shake themselves out of their
        > stupidity and bad education to grasp the clarity of this before
        our
        > eyes. And it is expected that refusal, disbelief and inability to
        > think because of subjective educational issues and subjective
        souls
        > issues will continue to obstruct and block The Etheric Christ
        > Sciences.
        >
        > But to overcome some of the lumbering aspects of the science of
        the
        > Earth I AM system, we resort to how the Stars, not the big bang,
        > which is utterly a stupid idea to imply that this all emerged as a
        > bomb of chaos and haphazard EVOLUTION, really begs the question of
        > what do you think Intelligent Design implies?
        >
        > According to Fundamentalism, Intelligent design is linked to
        > Biblical Fundamentalism, creationism of 7 days of creation.
        Nonsense
        > again!!! Theosophy was always closer to the understanding of
        > Intelligent Design, but now we have to understand why certain
        > Ahrimanic forces would insert the name INTELLIGENT DESIGN, which
        > should apply to anything that Occult Science an Outline delivers,
        > steal the term, and apply this to Fundamental Biblical
        Creationism.
        > Creationism is Biblical reductionism. Creationism arises from what
        > we in the west term the Cliff Notes for the dull and stupid, to
        > include some facts...such as SEVEN DAYS. Then we come to what is
        > this Seven and the Rainbow that Newton and Goethe argued over? And
        > what does Light and what Steve Hale brought, light measured at
        > 186,000 miles pers second, have to do with our understanding of 24
        > hour days and the lofty Elohim or Time jumping in the I AM. In
        other
        > words is the model of a human, an angel an Archangel as well as
        > animal, plant and stone, within the model of the whole family of
        > MAN? Duh, it is!!!!!
        >
        > But because we are not children, the Ahrimanic and Luciferic have
        > striven to retain these childish ideas and resist the Pauline
        > Schooling of "When I was a Child, I read Biblical fairy tales that
        > were way, way, way over my head," but gave little effort into
        > understanding from Theosophy or Anthroposophy what is truly the
        > meaning of INTELLIGENT DESIGN. Now we cannot use the word
        > Intelligent Design because it was hyjacked by Luciferic church
        going
        > ding-bats to be taught with utter LITERALISM and brainwashing to
        > children.
        >
        > Meanwhile all that has brought about the new Etheric Christ
        > education that fills the gap of old peasant wisdom in the previous
        > Waldorf and Education thread, means that the vast Etheric Christ
        > contains the cohesion of the Etheric thinking field of the
        organized
        > unfolding system from far back and beyond our human insertion all
        > the way to the present. Hijacking the term intelligent design
        makes
        > Ahriman happy for it locks out real thinking. Those folks who are
        > quietly serving Luciferic and Ahrimanic aims, don't even create
        the
        > opportunity to really understand what Intelligent Design would
        mean.
        > It traps these others in what we term the Sentient Soul corruption
        > where Lucifer remains trapped in the giddy region of Sin, Sex and
        > guilt of the old church values. Such dull and clunky thinking also
        > serves the educational clumsiness of the Intellectual Soul which
        > fuels every university and fuels as well the stupidity of our
        > current political process.
        >
        > So then you ask about Amoeba and contra Manu it is a can of worms
        > which each and everyone of us are required to unravel or else.
        Today
        > we have stars over our heads. The reality is that the complex math
        > configurations and gateway to the stars are part of the Angelic
        > field operations of how each child is given a twelvefold, twelve
        > pairs of cranial nerves that supplies the insertion of the spirit
        > germ into the birth of the physical child and gives this child a
        > star compass, an actual star compass in their grey matter and
        within
        > the mathematical dead zone of the great Stars above us. This vast
        > idea must be digested and that requires serious work. The Great
        > Stars above us are part of the micro model of the great stars
        within
        > us, that the Angelic community oversees when it helps to insert a
        > human into the stream of TIME. Again, most exciting research that
        > all begins to make sense, so that spiritual science students no
        > longer have to entertain nonsense and bullshit as educational
        > excuses for their failures to explain these insights. There is no
        > excuse for us to not go about unraveling these mysteries.
        >
        > So imagine the stupidity of skipping over how Zarathustra planned
        > his incarnation from Chaldea with the result of the Three Kings
        and
        > the Jesus Deed. Imagine how we don't consider Jesus some visiting
        > Avatar at all. The Christ Being Himself and every detail of His
        > union with a Human, reflects the fact that the Human is made in
        the
        > model of our elder brothers the gods.
        >
        > Zarathustra the Persian and Chaldea Initiate transended and worked
        > way outside the Star field and worked directly with planning on
        how
        > to insert himself into the Hebrew people so that Christ could
        ignite
        > Himself within the Etheric and Ethnic forces of warmth within the
        > Hebrew people and use that warmed iron rich blood to dive into the
        > bones of Spirit Man. The planning and the star mastery that
        > Zarathustra showed so dwarfs the dim bulbed science fiction of
        > sending ourselves in little spaceships to Mars via fully failed
        NASA
        > thinking. Or by looking directly into our own human system and
        > dealing with the fact of our having a strong Mars force within us.
        > Or the third option, is following the movements of Mars and
        > understanding that we invaded Iraq and went hyper war mode when
        Mars
        > was the closest to the Earth in som thousands of years. We must
        > account for the TWELVEFOLD cranial nerve package that we observe
        in
        > individuals who take their karma down to Earth and resolve issues
        of
        > destiny under Karma and star compass capacities that they bear. If
        > you don't understand these things about how the human nervous
        system
        > and the 12 pairs of cranial nerves function as a thought and
        > navigation tool for the birth date and birth of the child, you
        need
        > to study more.
        >
        > These all reveal what? What do they reveal? They reveal that this
        > Earth System, including the Stars above us, are fixed within the
        > human cranial nerve package, known as our astral body, and within
        > the Etheric Heart package of the human being. Therefore those
        stars
        > out there and planets are part of the intimate human package. We
        > grow this package of human capacities from the etheric heart of
        > childhood to the astral heart to the mature and ripened I AM
        heart,
        > the heart that is developed and was developed in Zarathustra/Jesus
        > by age 30.
        >
        > The human being journeys out and expands out to the stars at death
        > and shrinks and carries his star compass with him into Time as he
        is
        > born into a physical form on Earth. To conclude, the mineral
        cannot
        > say that; the plant cannot say that; the animal can partly say
        that;
        > but to the human being, we are the Stars and we carry the Stars
        and
        > we carry the entire Etheric Memory, that is carried now by the
        > Etheric Christ and the Etheric Christ Event which we date at its
        > strongest point of entry, Feb 27, 1933. The Etheric memory of
        > Saturn, Sun, Old Moon, Earth evolution as the foundations of His
        > Being....Now that is Science, anything short of that is chaotic
        > nonsense taught everywhere on this planet and has to be sorted out
        > by intelligent people. All we need is a few intelligent people.
        > Luckily Spiritual Science calls forth intelligent people.
        >
        > And in every detail from animal to stone, to plant, we can look
        > directly into the etheric cohesion and vast memory field as well
        as
        > the individual memory tableau released at death, and we can find
        > this etheric life and Light in the plant chemical digestion of
        light
        > and the human blood's digestion of thought, light, life and and
        the
        > so called qualities of light that appear in the thought world and
        > enter the blood, when we consider Luciferic thought and Luciferic
        > Light, Christ Etheric Light and Ahrimanic intellectual soul
        cunning
        > and electricity and nerve light. This we do in His Name when we
        > consider different qualities and effects of different types of
        Soul
        > Light.
        >
        > Steiner had the great good fortune to travel with a true
        Paracelsus,
        > herbalist who met him on a train, (later included as Felix and
        > Felcita Balde in The Mystery Dramas) and the links to earth
        sciences
        > awoke and were coaxed forward so that Steiner could understand the
        > intimate organization of nature and bring his vision in line with
        > reality. And that is the process, we all must do. Bring our sight
        in
        > line with reality. I started out with Culpepper and Paracelsus
        with
        > a small herb book in my hand comparing each tiny flower citizen.
        But
        > I am nothing on the path. Steiner had already developed such
        > powerful organizational logic fields in previous incarnations that
        > when he incarnated with his gifted young sight, Steiner needed to
        > anchor this sight deeply into the kingdom of Nature and that is
        why
        > he met the Herbalist.
        >
        > We can approach Spiritual Science from any particular angle and it
        > will make sense, but we also have to do particular extensive
        > monitoring our flaws and soul diversion escapades that are stirred
        > up just because we are encounter the solution to a thousand human
        > riddles because of the Etheric Christ Event in our thinking.

        opetha wrote:
        >
        > "How can we--as anthroposophists and theosophists---reckon
        adequately
        > the testament of a world evolving from rare spirit into dense
        matter
        > over seven Manvantaras with its almost spontaneous sets of races,
        > when we have sedementary records, radio isotopics and and almost
        > empirically-excepted law of natural selection and the big-bang?
        >
        > I know that a very dry scientist cannot glimpse into such astral-
        > phenomena, spreading and belittling the evolutionists time-span as
        it
        > does, but then so many fossil records justify environmental-
        > adaptation in the species---though I'm not sure how bona fide the
        > Hadean Earth theory is. . . .
        >
        > Is there some paradox we are not getting? that TIME itself has been
        > changing too, maybe with a spiritual Earth not only falling into
        > matter, but also into TIME, at point x, where history spans that
        way
        > and the future this? "
        >

        >
      • Valerie Walsh
        ... The original post and parts of Bradford s response reminded me fundamentally of Hal s Bar and Grill , the French translation being, I believe, La barre de
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 2, 2006
          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > The original post reminded me of reading about "the eigth sphere" in
          > a lecture series called:
          > "Occult Movements in the 19th Century"; the french translation
          > is `Les dangers d'un occultisme matérialiste' which you probably can
          > decipher meaning: the dangers of materialistic occultism. Does
          > anyone want to comment on this?

          The original post and parts of Bradford's response reminded me
          fundamentally of "Hal's Bar and Grill", the French translation being, I
          believe, La barre de Hal et grille.-Val
        • Steve Hale
          ... in ... can ... The logistics of the moon and the eighth sphere is described in Steiner s lecture course, The Occult Movement in the Nineteenth Century ,
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 2, 2006
            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...>
            wrote:
            >
            >
            > The original post reminded me of reading about "the eigth sphere"
            in
            > a lecture series called:
            > "Occult Movements in the 19th Century"; the french translation
            > is `Les dangers d'un occultisme matérialiste' which you probably
            can
            > decipher meaning: the dangers of materialistic occultism. Does
            > anyone want to comment on this?

            The logistics of the moon and "the eighth sphere" is described in
            Steiner's lecture course, "The Occult Movement in the Nineteenth
            Century", given October 10-25 of 1915. Herein is described the
            entire basis and rationale for the creation of the eighth sphere; to
            provide a counter-balance to the unmineralized physical (Jehovian)
            moon, which has given its mineral content over to the earth in the
            Lemurian epoch. This was done in order for the physical-mineral
            constitution of the earth to commence as the basis for man's dense
            three-fold embodiment required to receive the Ego. Because Jehova
            remained on the moon rather than departing with the six other Sun
            Spirits at the end of the Moon sphere of evolution, it became
            possible for the Astral Body to receive an acceleration of its
            archetypal development on the moon, while Jehova planted the seed of
            the Ego during sleep consciousness for its subsequent development on
            earth; at the beginning of our earth sphere, rather than at the end,
            as originally planned.

            Thus, in order to counteract the strong, and detrimental tendencies
            that would have prevailed for human evolution on earth, i.e., 1) the
            perpetuation of the old imaginative-visionary clairvoyance of the
            moon; and, 2) the full development of the human astral body in
            advance of the ego's proper development on earth, the eighth sphere
            was set up to mitigate these influences. Thus the eighth sphere is a
            completely mechancial contrivance that has been formed out of
            mineral substance meant for the earth; sequestered, so to speak, by
            Lucifer and Ahriman, and re-supplied to what was to be the etheric
            husk of the old moon. Because the physical and luminescent Jehovian
            moon was guarded against receiving back any of its original mineral
            nature, it had to be given to this 'spectral' sphere.

            As more and more mineral substance has gone to the eight sphere over
            the course of maybe, 40,000 years since that point in the Lemurian
            epoch when the mineral kingdom passed over to the earth, this sphere
            has taken on rotational characteristics around the fixed and
            luminous physical moon. It has the effect of acting as a shroud,
            which is mistaken for being the phases of the moon.

            Steve
          • opetha
            Bradford/Holderlin, Many thanks for your lengthy and impassioned account, it s more than appreciated. You sound like one very concerned about spiritual truths
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
              Bradford/Holderlin,

              Many thanks for your lengthy and impassioned account, it's more than
              appreciated. You sound like one very concerned about spiritual truths
              for mankind.

              My own school of thought, I have to admit, is more in the direction
              of Carl Jung's Analytical Psychology and although I understand that
              there are active spiritual forces both in and out of man, i am still
              somewhat reticent in my own persnal life because of the whole nature
              of astral phenomena being OBJECTIVE, and this entails a choice that
              cannot be faked by the wrong type of Karmic placement (or Karmamarg).
              And by this I understand that anything realized on the astral plane
              or any higher spiritual world is a conditioned contrivance, though
              with karma beneficence, of the aspirate. You more advanced
              anthroposophists must know well that your first spiritual experiences
              were not in SEEING etheric properties in plants and the macrocosm,
              but in READING such personalities as Steinar, his magistry reaching
              out of the page and giving new meaning to your earley lives. This was
              a "pulling-in for you".

              My tending toward Jung involves an empiric understanding of the
              unconscious and complexes and a kind of palette that can paint
              various pictures in our conscious sensation realms, and at that maybe
              limited in colours. Jung always looked poorly on Steinar and the
              theosophical movement because its consciousness was so developed that
              it abandoned the unconscious and maybe saw this, as I maybe do also,
              as an imbalance--hence I likened the anthroposophic movement as
              LUCIFERIC--light, consciousness (your "ahrimanic"). Jung's other
              discovery was the psychological types: THINKING, FEELING, INTUITION,
              and SENSATION. Jung was very strict with word-designations and felt
              they had to be etymologically-precise, which is different in
              Anthroposophy, where they appear to this "phoneme-regressive"
              unconscious theory as spurious and haphazard, Steinar would use
              sensation and intuition as meaning different faculties than what Jung
              would want as fundamental (for instance, a tarot reader calls their
              psychic power "intuition" but Jung quite rightly distingiuishes
              intuition as a language of the prophets and of the unconscious
              symbols, whereas Tarot psychics would be THINKING (objective,
              extraverted, conditioned , thinking). proper intuition would see the
              tarot cards as archetypal substances, the Tarot card THE TOWER as the
              same dream complexity as the penis ejaculating and flopping over,
              whereas an advanced psychic would see a magic cloud over this card
              that shows rather the thing it entails (timothy's rocket ship project
              failing on Tuesday, rather than a guess based on the dream analogy).
              So you see that the tarot psychic, as with a biased depth
              psychologist, would never have recourse to glimpse the others meaning
              behind their own personal word constructs, the psychic would have
              frontal lobe or anja-chakra powers from an earley age that would make
              them forsake the complexities of, say, Jung's empirical subjective
              way.

              And all these dispositions can only be based on karma, which is, even
              in wooden psychology, a empirical and provable science. And this is
              only provable is (for their sake) we abandon the whole notion (for
              the time being) of spiritual energy from the planets (though you,
              Bradford, and Steve Hale cannot do this) and reckon the idea of
              synchroncity. This posits that the planet venus moving into my sign
              of capricorn in astrology has no more spiritual and energic effect on
              my love life any more than my love life has a spiritual and energic
              effect that moves venus into Capricorn, because both are synchronized
              and acausally connected. Two time lines---the ephemeris and my
              biography---never cross but are parallel. Karma as horoscope symbols
              are innate as unconscious complexes and project in my life onto
              available affordances, whether badly placed planets as synchronistly
              appearing as bad fortune, or goodly placed planets projecting in time
              upon likeable things. And this circular horoscope, I'm sure we all
              now agree, is the halo about the buddharupa, that mandala at the back
              of His head. The planets on the periphery are the skandas (reigns)
              which are charged by libido-interest (kama-desire). To destroy karma
              and achieve moksha is to destroy all attachment to Karmic images,
              even positive ones.

              But just not to go of track, what I wanted to say was that in
              Analytical Psychology to be of a spiritual disposition is to be of
              one of the four(or eight) psychological types, namely the extraverted
              THINKING type that Jung reduces to a type that often believes its
              word conventions are a means an end and are easily doctrinable by
              fancy playful language--and I only point this out to the
              anthroposophical and magickal personality that it is likely on
              certain terms only one arm of that cross which signifies atma-
              wholeness, THINKING and FEELING are called the rational, positive
              psyche's, with INTUITION and SENSATION as irrational and negative.
              People born with good prarabhda Karma will most likely be of the
              positive disposition and with bad prarabdha karma of the negative,
              and this entails also an habitual introversion of libido or
              extraversion.

              We've all heard the saying "ignorance is bliss" and this is one of
              the failings of the negative type (OK, myself included there) that
              there IS a need for the rationality of the unconscious, the matrix of
              innate and eternal ideas before they have affordances, and this is
              the machine that the gnostics were interested in, the first religion
              of Jesus, who some thought was of the dhamma. With blessed Karma the
              available opportunies in the outside world, whether money, or
              spiritual entities, are a magnet that pulls AWAY from the unconscious
              systematics and therefore of conformative science.

              Where you guys speak of Steinar having developed his powers through
              many incarnations, I can only assume that he was once like Jung and
              that his temperance had migrated him to a more positive and, shall we
              say, matrically unconcerned mentality. That a spiritualist and
              anthroposophist can not ask fundamental questions of the unconcious
              matrix, or combat fundamental earth science adequatly, is because
              they are blessed, by so many soul-journeys, with the reluctance of
              the mother (dark/underneith) and the desire of the son (light/the
              above). The two proper types of Christianity included romanticism
              and "phallicism"--romanticism was the Ahrimanic (your "luciferic")
              that had bad Karma and shirked away from the object for the hopeful
              intuiton prayer, the sychronistic signs, and the love of the mother
              (or mother complex), the "phallic" Christianity, was the positive
              Karmic and love the object--the spiritual onject---and understood the
              Christian word as having no fundamental science (hence theology as
              unethical) and was a complete emersion in conscious wakeful light of
              christ conconciousness, moksha by faith, St, Stephens unpoundable and
              infinite love. Compare Tertulians simplicity to Orgen and the
              gnostics's complexity, this is the whole squirmish that reduced pure
              faith-consciousness to gnostic science, scholasticism, mdoern
              philosphy and right down into depth psychology. Both, the romantic
              and the phallic, are undertood as dualities where God-atma (or I AM)
              is the only unity, and the world exists of these opposites in Karma
              the blest and the down-trodden, both wanting good but one unable to
              commend with the anthroposophical teaching due to some Karmic
              restraint.

              Your voice, Bradford, and Mr Hale show the dispositions of the
              THINKING types who have almost nominalistic word conventions, and you
              are so sure of your teachings--which is a good thing---but maybe
              (just maybe) have to consider how anthroposophy can become properly
              a world "science" when it is so objective as to leave behind the
              Karmically stunted scientist--like myself. Your style of speaking in
              its surety with such physics is exactly the same as Barbara Hand Clow
              who speaks like-lucidly and non-fundamentally, but with a whole
              different spiritual law; that we have evolved from lizzards, the the
              annunaki on the planet nibiru gave the jews uranium commandment stone
              to take over are minds, and that the mayan-immigrant spirits in the
              Pleiades will nourish our world with spiritual light in AD 2012. All
              this with first hand, psychic contact. Her world exists, as does
              yours, even the world of the man who OBJECTIVIZED that george Harrisn
              on was a witch from the planet Neptune, but all without corners
              touching.

              So, it appears that the whole of the spiritual world is objective and
              creatable, depending on what palette we have in our unconscious. When
              you die I;m sure you will go to devachan, and that a Christian will
              go to paradise and a Tibetan will see all those astral things from
              the BARDO THROTROL, but these are not things for fundamental science,
              are they. My excellerated consciousness will CREATE a objective abode
              for my spiritual actions--pure kreyamena Karma.

              The life journey is one from deep sleep in the watery womb to high
              consciousness in the akash. The infallibility of mankind is that they
              get caught halfway, the libido cannot migrate so well to
              consciousness with Karmic complexes (the palette) in the unconscious,
              when consciousness is venerated completely the umbilical coard from
              the unconcious matrix is cut and, the light/libido dwelling in
              enlightened consciousness in its entirety, the unconscious is not
              only not needed anymore, but denied existance, hence this dipsute I
              claim about etymologically fundamental word conventions of Jung, but
              not of Steinar (LUCIFER = light = positive = future, AHRIMAN = dark =
              negative = past. . . .). The akash of devachan or the "otherside" is
              one without the unconscious. We are here "as the angels of Heaven, no
              longer given in marriage" because we lose are genetic Karma, even our
              sanchita Karma which is of a greater race cycle (also I could allude
              to jesus's disowning his mother and brothers--no longer the simple
              Jew---but EVERY MAN...and even Steinars remark that in Christ
              consciousness only the body sleeps whilst the mind goes into the
              macrocosm).

              But I hope you understand my language in that I have taken up to
              understand yours, and also what I mean by meeting me halfway is along
              that arm of the cross where you be THINKING (into the heights)--good
              Karma through development--and I be INTUITION (tuition of the depth)
              by bad Karma, because these are the types that make up the whole of
              mankind that we are trying to so erroneously influence.

              I think that in the next life I will have better prarabdha Karma,
              more libido/light in consciousness, that will forsake my mother (the
              unconscious), where "ignorance is bliss" and I can formulate on the
              astral plane the etheric realms, but now, I am not ignorant enough to
              CHOOSE between Anthroposophy, Thelema, Pleiadeanism, or any other
              woven reality, because I was made to love sacrifice.

              But let us love one-another.

              Godo.













              >
              > Bradford responds;
              >
              > I enjoyed some of your recent descriptions of New Age Lucifer and
              > Ahriman offshoots. Gradually the student of spiritual science
              learns
              > how to look at the various predominating soul forces, Michael
              > Jackson makes a very good study in Luciferic tendencies, yet, the
              > stinging luciferic/ahrimanic in Ann Coulter in the west, or the
              > Luciferic/Ahrimanic in Karl Rove and the dominating Ahrimanic in
              > Dick Cheney, slowly allows each human being a chance to measure
              > ourselves and our own compromises. For the reason for this
              schooling
              > isn't to accuse others of anything, but rather to be very conscious
              > of our own mixed bag of tricks, operative at all times and all
              > places.
              >
              > Locating the high moral ground of where the Etheric Christ reality
              > supports childhood, supports the etheric memory tableau of human
              > striving, ages, Manvantaras and the entire Occult Science an
              Outline
              > is where true science, not big bang nonsense or even carbon dating
              > arises with clarity. Christ is in the very models of soul and
              spirit
              > and in the very weaving forces that objectively hold the whole
              model
              > of the human up to the light. And in that light of course weave the
              > Ahrimanic and Luciferic in us and they are part of the whole needed
              > reality in human endeavor. Christ and the Etheric Christ lives
              fully
              > in the entire superstructure and intimacies of the model that our I
              > AM is made of. What is clarity and what does a student of Spiritual
              > Science encounter?
              >
              > Firstly we do encounter in ourselves and in the world the icy
              > coldness of intellectual soul lies, (that is that we also can
              > clearly locate one of the NINE not merely the SEVENFOLD forces of
              > the micro I AM system, and this micro I AM system is a mini
              > Manvantara, with one of the layers of soul in the term,
              INTELLECTUAL
              > SOUL) and the general tendency of Lucifer to get stoned, get high
              > and preserve the field of sexual Venusian mysteries, at least what
              > we have termed here on Earth, Venusian mysteries. These mysteries
              of
              > love have to do with Aphrodite Mysteries and fallen porn or
              awakened
              > higher love, and the love of Freya or Good Friday or higher Love
              > mysteries. These pertain literally to Dove mysteries. For it is
              true
              > that earthy and good sex, sensual love and the entire endocrine
              > system in the human being, is what we clearly and solidly
              understand
              > when Christian Rosenkreuz saw Venus naked in "The Chymical Wedding
              > of Christian Rosenkreuz". I can only suggest you do your research
              > and do catch up to true science or work out specific questions.
              > Everyone will still balk, resist, refuse due to their own etheric
              > and astral squirming, to find other answers than Spiritual Science
              > but it is in fact that Spiritual Science contains the Logos of the
              > Etheric Christ thinking in it.
              >
              > But as I see it, GODOT, excuse me if I got your name wrong, it is
              so
              > highly clear that stone, plant, animal and human stand there before
              > your eyes and my eyes. That to produce the I Am from the Earth
              > Manvantara ----- the ASTRAL body from the Old Moon Manvantara ------

              > the ETHERIC BODY from the Sun evolution ------ and the physical
              body
              > designed from ancient Saturn....When we clearly with scientific
              eyes
              > look at the reality of these phases in, and pralayas that bring
              > about the mix and phases on earth of mineral, plant, animal and
              > human, there is no way not to see that the mineral has no etheric,
              > that the plant has no astral body, (externalized in the insect
              > kingdom) and the animal has no I AM or individualized thinking and
              > memory capacity. People have to shake themselves out of their
              > stupidity and bad education to grasp the clarity of this before our
              > eyes. And it is expected that refusal, disbelief and inability to
              > think because of subjective educational issues and subjective souls
              > issues will continue to obstruct and block The Etheric Christ
              > Sciences.
              >
              > But to overcome some of the lumbering aspects of the science of the
              > Earth I AM system, we resort to how the Stars, not the big bang,
              > which is utterly a stupid idea to imply that this all emerged as a
              > bomb of chaos and haphazard EVOLUTION, really begs the question of
              > what do you think Intelligent Design implies?
              >
              > According to Fundamentalism, Intelligent design is linked to
              > Biblical Fundamentalism, creationism of 7 days of creation.
              Nonsense
              > again!!! Theosophy was always closer to the understanding of
              > Intelligent Design, but now we have to understand why certain
              > Ahrimanic forces would insert the name INTELLIGENT DESIGN, which
              > should apply to anything that Occult Science an Outline delivers,
              > steal the term, and apply this to Fundamental Biblical Creationism.
              > Creationism is Biblical reductionism. Creationism arises from what
              > we in the west term the Cliff Notes for the dull and stupid, to
              > include some facts...such as SEVEN DAYS. Then we come to what is
              > this Seven and the Rainbow that Newton and Goethe argued over? And
              > what does Light and what Steve Hale brought, light measured at
              > 186,000 miles pers second, have to do with our understanding of 24
              > hour days and the lofty Elohim or Time jumping in the I AM. In
              other
              > words is the model of a human, an angel an Archangel as well as
              > animal, plant and stone, within the model of the whole family of
              > MAN? Duh, it is!!!!!
              >
              > But because we are not children, the Ahrimanic and Luciferic have
              > striven to retain these childish ideas and resist the Pauline
              > Schooling of "When I was a Child, I read Biblical fairy tales that
              > were way, way, way over my head," but gave little effort into
              > understanding from Theosophy or Anthroposophy what is truly the
              > meaning of INTELLIGENT DESIGN. Now we cannot use the word
              > Intelligent Design because it was hyjacked by Luciferic church
              going
              > ding-bats to be taught with utter LITERALISM and brainwashing to
              > children.
              >
              > Meanwhile all that has brought about the new Etheric Christ
              > education that fills the gap of old peasant wisdom in the previous
              > Waldorf and Education thread, means that the vast Etheric Christ
              > contains the cohesion of the Etheric thinking field of the
              organized
              > unfolding system from far back and beyond our human insertion all
              > the way to the present. Hijacking the term intelligent design makes
              > Ahriman happy for it locks out real thinking. Those folks who are
              > quietly serving Luciferic and Ahrimanic aims, don't even create the
              > opportunity to really understand what Intelligent Design would
              mean.
              > It traps these others in what we term the Sentient Soul corruption
              > where Lucifer remains trapped in the giddy region of Sin, Sex and
              > guilt of the old church values. Such dull and clunky thinking also
              > serves the educational clumsiness of the Intellectual Soul which
              > fuels every university and fuels as well the stupidity of our
              > current political process.
              >
              > So then you ask about Amoeba and contra Manu it is a can of worms
              > which each and everyone of us are required to unravel or else.
              Today
              > we have stars over our heads. The reality is that the complex math
              > configurations and gateway to the stars are part of the Angelic
              > field operations of how each child is given a twelvefold, twelve
              > pairs of cranial nerves that supplies the insertion of the spirit
              > germ into the birth of the physical child and gives this child a
              > star compass, an actual star compass in their grey matter and
              within
              > the mathematical dead zone of the great Stars above us. This vast
              > idea must be digested and that requires serious work. The Great
              > Stars above us are part of the micro model of the great stars
              within
              > us, that the Angelic community oversees when it helps to insert a
              > human into the stream of TIME. Again, most exciting research that
              > all begins to make sense, so that spiritual science students no
              > longer have to entertain nonsense and bullshit as educational
              > excuses for their failures to explain these insights. There is no
              > excuse for us to not go about unraveling these mysteries.
              >
              > So imagine the stupidity of skipping over how Zarathustra planned
              > his incarnation from Chaldea with the result of the Three Kings and
              > the Jesus Deed. Imagine how we don't consider Jesus some visiting
              > Avatar at all. The Christ Being Himself and every detail of His
              > union with a Human, reflects the fact that the Human is made in the
              > model of our elder brothers the gods.
              >
              > Zarathustra the Persian and Chaldea Initiate transended and worked
              > way outside the Star field and worked directly with planning on how
              > to insert himself into the Hebrew people so that Christ could
              ignite
              > Himself within the Etheric and Ethnic forces of warmth within the
              > Hebrew people and use that warmed iron rich blood to dive into the
              > bones of Spirit Man. The planning and the star mastery that
              > Zarathustra showed so dwarfs the dim bulbed science fiction of
              > sending ourselves in little spaceships to Mars via fully failed
              NASA
              > thinking. Or by looking directly into our own human system and
              > dealing with the fact of our having a strong Mars force within us.
              > Or the third option, is following the movements of Mars and
              > understanding that we invaded Iraq and went hyper war mode when
              Mars
              > was the closest to the Earth in som thousands of years. We must
              > account for the TWELVEFOLD cranial nerve package that we observe in
              > individuals who take their karma down to Earth and resolve issues
              of
              > destiny under Karma and star compass capacities that they bear. If
              > you don't understand these things about how the human nervous
              system
              > and the 12 pairs of cranial nerves function as a thought and
              > navigation tool for the birth date and birth of the child, you need
              > to study more.
              >
              > These all reveal what? What do they reveal? They reveal that this
              > Earth System, including the Stars above us, are fixed within the
              > human cranial nerve package, known as our astral body, and within
              > the Etheric Heart package of the human being. Therefore those stars
              > out there and planets are part of the intimate human package. We
              > grow this package of human capacities from the etheric heart of
              > childhood to the astral heart to the mature and ripened I AM heart,
              > the heart that is developed and was developed in Zarathustra/Jesus
              > by age 30.
              >
              > The human being journeys out and expands out to the stars at death
              > and shrinks and carries his star compass with him into Time as he
              is
              > born into a physical form on Earth. To conclude, the mineral cannot
              > say that; the plant cannot say that; the animal can partly say
              that;
              > but to the human being, we are the Stars and we carry the Stars and
              > we carry the entire Etheric Memory, that is carried now by the
              > Etheric Christ and the Etheric Christ Event which we date at its
              > strongest point of entry, Feb 27, 1933. The Etheric memory of
              > Saturn, Sun, Old Moon, Earth evolution as the foundations of His
              > Being....Now that is Science, anything short of that is chaotic
              > nonsense taught everywhere on this planet and has to be sorted out
              > by intelligent people. All we need is a few intelligent people.
              > Luckily Spiritual Science calls forth intelligent people.
              >
              > And in every detail from animal to stone, to plant, we can look
              > directly into the etheric cohesion and vast memory field as well as
              > the individual memory tableau released at death, and we can find
              > this etheric life and Light in the plant chemical digestion of
              light
              > and the human blood's digestion of thought, light, life and and the
              > so called qualities of light that appear in the thought world and
              > enter the blood, when we consider Luciferic thought and Luciferic
              > Light, Christ Etheric Light and Ahrimanic intellectual soul cunning
              > and electricity and nerve light. This we do in His Name when we
              > consider different qualities and effects of different types of Soul
              > Light.
              >
              > Steiner had the great good fortune to travel with a true
              Paracelsus,
              > herbalist who met him on a train, (later included as Felix and
              > Felcita Balde in The Mystery Dramas) and the links to earth
              sciences
              > awoke and were coaxed forward so that Steiner could understand the
              > intimate organization of nature and bring his vision in line with
              > reality. And that is the process, we all must do. Bring our sight
              in
              > line with reality. I started out with Culpepper and Paracelsus with
              > a small herb book in my hand comparing each tiny flower citizen.
              But
              > I am nothing on the path. Steiner had already developed such
              > powerful organizational logic fields in previous incarnations that
              > when he incarnated with his gifted young sight, Steiner needed to
              > anchor this sight deeply into the kingdom of Nature and that is why
              > he met the Herbalist.
              >
              > We can approach Spiritual Science from any particular angle and it
              > will make sense, but we also have to do particular extensive
              > monitoring our flaws and soul diversion escapades that are stirred
              > up just because we are encounter the solution to a thousand human
              > riddles because of the Etheric Christ Event in our thinking.
              >
            • holderlin66
              opetha wrote: but maybe (just maybe) have to consider how anthroposophy can become properly a world science when it is so objective as to leave behind the
              Message 6 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
                opetha wrote:

                "but maybe
                (just maybe) have to consider how anthroposophy can become properly
                a world "science" when it is so objective as to leave behind the
                Karmically stunted scientist--like myself. Your style of speaking in
                its surety with such physics is exactly the same as Barbara Hand Clow
                who speaks like-lucidly and non-fundamentally, but with a whole
                different spiritual law; that we have evolved from lizzards, the the
                annunaki on the planet nibiru gave the jews uranium commandment stone
                to take over are minds, and that the mayan-immigrant spirits in the
                Pleiades will nourish our world with spiritual light in AD 2012."

                Bradford comments;

                I know nothing about you, save how you approach your thought world.
                I have written extensively on the subjects of how Freud, Jung and
                Steiner form a whole and that whole takes it's start from the truths
                that come from each of these three representative agents. The
                problem you have that I don't have at present, is that I have
                already accepted Jung as one of the phases of unfolding insight. But
                let's review for you how reality, as opposed to the undiscerned,
                goobly-gook of Lizards from the large and unseen but resonating
                planet in our solar system, Nibiru can not in the least be compared
                with any seekers compass for truth.

                Don't expect to get some easy, anybody can make up any truth they
                want and reality is a crap shoot, bullshit answer to life's riddles.
                Freud has done wonders for the Mothering side of how the etheric
                shadows of our blood relationships influence our ethnic and etheric
                relations via what our mother's pass on to us. Freud represents a
                chaotic but interesting Woody Allen version of how much our blood
                and etheric developments can be crippled in our psychologies.

                Jung has generalized the unconscious and Steiner has mapped the
                unconscious. Jung made bold attempts to map the unconscious but for
                his region of soul, Jung managed to prepare some interesting ground
                work, particularly the anima and animus as already developed
                Spiritual Science themes of the accurate etheric mirror in us. That
                is what Emma Jung developed further, yet that is a theme that
                Steiner had already mapped. Meaning clearly and literally that
                opposite our physical sex, our etheric bodies carry an opposite
                mirror of our physical bodies. Which meant that our etheric bodies
                are male if we have a female physical body and our etheric bodies
                are female if we have a male etheric body. There is fact you take
                out of the Jungian scavenger hunt and replace back in the box of
                Steiner Science where it belongs. Jungian psychology has advanced
                many different aspects of soul and therefore we can give Jung a C-
                for incohesive understanding of the astral and soul body.

                So far we have Freud being an incomplete and fumbling version of how
                the perspective of psychology arises from the etheric body connected
                to our mothers which makes Woody Allen a bodhisattva of Freudian
                psychology. Jungian psychology attempts to map the threefhold system
                of intelligence, Jungian psychology is Anthro-lite. Jungian
                psychology verifies Athletic Intelligence - Emotional Intelligence
                and Brain bound intelligence...and all three of these operate in a
                threefold world that Steiner mapped far more carefully than any of
                these two. Waldorf is desgined to bring all three into harmony.
                Sports intelligence, instinctive intelligence and sports activated
                bodily intelligence truly resonates with one area and group of
                souls. Emotional intelligence, artists, strippers, lovers, writers,
                poets, singers, film makers....all weave forces of emotional
                intelligence with spits and spats of vision and imagination. Then we
                have dried up brain intellgence, polls, numbers, statistics, and
                really encapsulated in Mr. Stephen Hawkings entire riddle.

                Now I agree with your train wreck of nominalistic and realistic word
                use, that according to you Jung really, really wanted accurate
                semantics and definitions and strove to be clear... Well that is why
                most Anthros can truly understand and accept Jung's efforts and Emma
                Jung and Jungian thinkers, but Jungian thinkers are generally merely
                scavengers of astral dreams and subconscious worlds that have not
                been defined as part of the astral world at all. In fact Jungians
                have not defined the astral realities in relation to the super
                system of the nervous system of the human being. Freudians have not
                defined the etheric blood based ethnic forces as related to the
                lymphatic system which produces Freud's faulty concepts of Love of
                Mother. These Jungians and Freudians and other abstract researchers
                don't acknowledge the reality of the etheric world, don't consider
                the reality of the astral world, don't include in any way the
                advanced supersystem of the mighty Etheric Christ Being active
                within humanities etheric body. These researchers who deny all this
                and fumble around with great eastern terms and deny the system of
                the etheric, astral and I AM are not science students thay are rumor
                scavengers.

                No, I'm afraid to inform you that much of Jungian psychology is
                wonderfully foundational to any approach to Spiritual Science. But
                Spiritual Science is the Science of the I AM... that means that we
                take Freud as having danced around the issue of the etheric body and
                it can be clearly understood that Freud's gifts and failures have to
                do with his relation to the unfolding concepts and freed up concepts
                of the Etheric life. Which are laced with utter amateur nonsense.
                I'm afraid to inform you that Jungian research is still growing up
                and is not even yet close to I AM Science and wanders in the great
                halls of the astral body without even knowing it's name or it's use.
                And finally I am afraid to inform you that Steiner incorporates all
                three levels, the body, the soul and the spirit and the physical,
                etheric, and astral levels and Steiner himself is a scientist of the
                I Am.

                Now as you have seen in my current writings, there is a constant
                undercurrent sketch of the Etheric Christ Being as a reality that is
                under the mighty wave of science even as it struggled with wave and
                particle theories. I can trace with utter accuracy the dawn of the
                Age of Light, 1899 and trace the eastern terminologies of the
                unfolding eras and clearly bring to your attention how the Age of
                Light, the dawn of physics, Heisenberg's uncertainty principle and
                Jung's Sychronicity principle are tied. How Einstein's approach and
                research to the sense of light and energy and matter, were all
                developed side by side with the dawn of the Age of Light and the
                entrance of the vast Etheric Christ experience of humanity outlined
                by Steiner.

                The Kritayuga and the dawn of the vast Etheric Christ experience
                started rising as both wave and particle theories took root in the
                etheric thinking of humanity. Steiner clearly walked right up to the
                door of this age of Light and opened it to the bright illuminating
                source of the cohesion of intelligence and shining etheric Logos of
                the Risen Etheric Christ and ushered it in.

                Steiner directly worked with the dawn of the Etheric Christ and the
                inrushing Age of Light. The entire Hindu history of the ending of
                the kaliyuga to the dawning of the kritayuga and what we must both
                agree upon, as the Theosophical understanding of Intelligent Design
                and the Anthropsophical understanding of Intelligent Design, can
                clearly be read in the unfolding of Science and physics and the
                unfolding of the etheric sciences of Anthroposophy. These can be
                traced without your disclaimers that nobody can know baloney from
                truth. For the only thing you can say of yourself is that you are
                not ready or want to take an inconvienent stand to know the
                difference between your own baloney and truth and therefore prefer
                to keep certainty and clarity far from you, so that you think you
                can buy wiggle room.

                You are afraid that any reality that can be documented and
                understood with solid clarity just might be wrong...Well guess what,
                the vast Soul/Spirit model is woven with plenty of human leeway,
                plenty of play and plenty of room for human error allowed,
                nevertheless the model is there and it isn't waiting on whether your
                fickleness and emotional stability and your sense of being weighted
                down by reality might prevent you from soaring off to Lizards land
                on planet Nebiru or finding just as much truth there as under your
                bed on a dark and stormy night. The I AM system makes ALL INCLUDED.
                Just because there is a real Science of the universe, eventually
                your gonna have to come out of make believe land and understand how
                the Child develops and what are the true layers of soul and how a
                human reincarnates.

                That is why I was rather curious how you wish to avoid sinking your
                teeth into the wild and historical reality of such a thing as the
                true age of Light and my mention of the Etheric Christ in many, many
                instances. Now the Etheric Christ is not some stray belief, it is
                the Science of the Resurrection and the Science of Spiritual Science
                which was born from the Theosophy of Intelligent Design. The error I
                hope you are not making, is that the well developed and well planned
                incarnation of Jesus by the conscious Initiate Zarathustra wasn't a
                belief in some god, it was the full fledged accomplishment of that
                which is the core of Resurrection Science and material science, the
                conquering and planting of the seed of Spirit Man in the historical,
                physical, etheric and astral forces of the I AM. In other words, the
                Etheric Christ is not a belief but a fact of nature and reality.

                I suggest you wander in the halls of Jung and Theosophy until you
                are totally and happily convinced that there are so many realities
                and like a good candy store, why should you settle for one. And
                aren't we fools who use the whole I AM system to understand all the
                realities and any reality that any human mind can come up with. Now
                all the realities very well exist, as you have said, in the soul
                mind of many different people. But don't even imagine that somehow
                this cheap astral scavenger hunt that Jung so enjoys changes one
                fact of the Christ Event. It doesn't! It requires humanity to plunge
                into the superstructure and Intelligent Design of their own I AM.
                Right now the astral body and all the thrills of pretending there
                are no laws...allows you and allows us all to have that wonderful
                feeling of the rich playground fit and save for all truths.

                But the compass of the Spiritual anchor in the I AM can only be
                satisified with the kiddie pool for so long. When you decide to get
                serious or develop your happy meal freedom within the super joy of
                the vast I AM logos...you don't need permission from Jung, Freud or
                Steiner. The law of the I AM is seriously larger than both Jung and
                Freud or any Jungian model. And finally, much of Jungian psychology
                and Theosophy do not disagree with the Intelligent Design of
                Spiritual Science. Here is your hall pass go have fun!!!
              • holderlin66
                In addition to various ways to describe the human being, they amount to several, lets say for the present, FOUR, integrated forces that have their origin in
                Message 7 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
                  In addition to various ways to describe the human being, they amount
                  to several, lets say for the present, FOUR, integrated forces that
                  have their origin in the already refined substance of the stars,
                  that we term Fire, Air, Water and Earth. So the educator and
                  psychologist such as Jung and Steiner or Jungians and Steinerians,
                  have entered the workshop of human resources and the CIA has entered
                  the arena of education in order to wallpaper over the source of
                  these Etheric realities that each human soul brings with them when
                  they incarnate.

                  In previous research I have described how the vast origins of active
                  and particpatory elemental beings come into service and incarnation
                  with the child. Only slowly, and we have described on this list only
                  recently how the etheric heart slowly ripens with the astral heart
                  and slowly ripens to become the central sun of the I AM heart. Here
                  the human personality shines and illuminates themselves down to the
                  core of their being. Glocker and Staley on this list have previously
                  researched the Etheric Heart and Robert Mason vividly provided
                  additonal research to the subject.

                  But then the personality absorbs the work of the elemental beings
                  who reprsent fire - air - water and earth in ourselves, blood fire,
                  lung and heart beat in accord with the precession of 25,920 in synch
                  with breathing, water in the terms of how Christ offered that Man
                  must be born of Fire and Water or etheric lymphatic mysteries and
                  the conquering fire of unconditional Logos illuminated Love which
                  brilliantly flames in the human I AM, as that which is seriously
                  recorded as the Transfiguration. All these are mighty science
                  penetrations of the Cosmic I AM into the micro I Am of Man.

                  But to build the bones, to build the blood, personality and
                  temperaments that we try to discover in certain "compatibility
                  tests" and these come in all sizes and shapes including the 'perfect
                  computerized Love Match" and attempt to wallpaper over the mysteries
                  that have been outlined above in the human personality, we need to
                  be wary of. It really means that you make no effort to build for
                  yourselves true etheric insights. So for Jungians and Spiritual
                  Science students this is the origin, the starry quarters of our
                  higher being have carried with us, active elemental worlds,
                  salamandars, sylphs, nymphs and gnomes...Buddha released all these
                  wonderful beings when he completed his emancipation of Spirit
                  Selfhood on Earth.

                  Buddha and Mother/ Dream I

                  "One full moon night, sleeping in the palace, the queen had a vivid
                  dream. She felt herself being carried away by four devas (spirits)
                  to Lake Anotatta in the Himalayas. After bathing her in the lake,
                  the devas clothed her in heavenly cloths, anointed her with
                  perfumes, and bedecked her with divine flowers. Soon after a white
                  elephant, holding a white lotus flower in its trunk, appeared and
                  went round her three times, entering her womb through her right
                  side. Finally the elephant disappeared and the queen awoke, knowing
                  she had been delivered an important message, as the elephant is a
                  symbol of greatness in Nepal. The next day, early in the morning,
                  the queen told the king about the dream. The king was puzzled and
                  sent for some wise men to discover the meaning of the dream."

                  http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhism/lifebuddha/1lbud.htm

                  Bradford sketches comments;

                  Full Moon, watery mysteries, entering her womb through her right
                  side, and FOUR DEVAS...Four Devas..Four different elemental beings
                  that were the TEMPERAMENTS study for us on this list. Elemental
                  Beings who serve the growth and development of the child and in this
                  case these Devas are going to be freed up from having served the
                  material and personal cohesion of this incarnating being, and it is
                  very likely that in that incarnation, Buddha, will achieve what
                  Buddhahood means, rank of Angel, and not needing to borrow the
                  gnome, sylph, nymph or salamander beings, who have become immensely
                  humanized and full of compassion and literally volunteer to serve
                  when the Jesus task comes up to imbue the rich fountain of
                  compassion in this Jesus Human.

                  " Paracelsus added his two cents in the Middle Ages when he
                  described human nature as being influenced by four kinds of spirits."

                  Bradford comments;

                  Four kinds of elemental spirits, four etheric personality assistants
                  to serve the unfolding human development, brings us into the area of
                  what we are seeing when we are seeing the qualities that we are
                  seeing in each human personality.

                  Paracelsus was a real doctor. A real seeing human, who did his
                  homework and made his bones in mountain herbs, remedies in flowers,
                  meadows, stones and stars. Paracelsus was a real Cosmos Taught,
                  cosmos trained and probably carried insights from his past into his
                  capacities as a human being named Paracelsus. Doctors also hated
                  him.

                  Humans are meant to see ever deeper into the matrix of human
                  behavior. And surprise, what happens when we come across an
                  elemental being that assists, and conforms itself to the human mood,
                  and mingles between the sanguine sylph like sugar high, or the
                  fiery/salamandar, run in our hot blooded adrenal forces that make
                  adrenal junkies, firemen, and ambulance drivers so
                  interesting...waiting for that FIRE. Then we have the big
                  phlegmatic, horrific fast food elemental beings that have turned
                  most Americans into chubby rolls of jiggly blubber. You can see
                  these horrific ugly elementals parade themselves in TELETUBBY land.
                  And of course the gnomish, reclusive, veiled and hooded, even to the
                  point of wearing hoods, melancholics.

                  What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
                  friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
                  within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
                  exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
                  in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
                  taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
                  our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child should
                  not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
                  friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent ASAP "Heart
                  and Souls".

                  Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
                  called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
                  people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
                  air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
                  need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
                  and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to understand
                  anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the dots
                  that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
                  Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything.

                  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107091/

                  "Robert Downey, Jr. plays a young man whose life is going very well:
                  he's engaged to Elisabeth Shue, he's got a lot of money working as a
                  lawyer or such...until some old friends of his drop in--imaginary
                  friends, that is. Sort of. Dead imaginary friends that only he can
                  see.

                  "Many years ago, some people boarded a bus, including Charles Grodin
                  and Tom Sizemore. The bus flipped over a bridge and everyone died,
                  going to heaven. But then they came back down involuntarily to
                  Downey as a child and stayed with him for a few years. Every time
                  they tried to leave him, they were pulled back to him. Until he was
                  about eight, then they somehow managed to leave because they were
                  influencing his schoolwork and life (I don't remember how they got
                  out of it). Now they're back to haunt him again, because they need
                  him to help get to heaven.

                  holderlin had previously researched:

                  "What the true Waldorf
                  Teacher would aim for, is that all four of the fire, air, water and
                  earth, all four of the Choleric, Sanguine, Phlegmatic or Melancholic
                  temperaments would be of use and in balanced animation in every
                  child. A true Waldorf Teacher knows that you want maximum mobility
                  and that the child will need the buried treasures of the four ethers
                  as they move through all the stages of life."

                  Other supportive research to advanced psychology:

                  "The earliest recorded attempts of humans to explain the differences
                  among us are found in ancient astrology. Astrology said that the
                  way the heavens were aligned when you were born determined your
                  behavior. Astrologers used twelve constellations in the sky and
                  four major groupings, symbolized by earth, air, fire, and water.
                  They claimed that the movement of the sun, moon, and planets would
                  influence your behavior patterns or your fate.

                  Thousands of years ago, stars were what they went by, and your
                  personality was determined "out there" in the heavens.

                  Then, about 400 B.C., Hippocrates (the "Father of Medicine")
                  developed a concept of "humours." He introduced a radical idea that
                  said personality was determined by elements inside your body, not
                  the stars outside your body. For a well-balanced temperament, he
                  thought you needed equal amounts of the 4 body fluids: black bile,
                  yellow bile, blood, and phlegm. (Delightful, huh?)

                  Hippocrates associated his "humours" with Temperament names. Many
                  people are familiar with them: Choleric, Phlegmatic, Sanguine, and
                  Melancholic. (I'm still fond of using these names sometimes.) So
                  that's when the naming game started, and everybody came up with
                  their version and their names for these four types. Paracelsus
                  added his two cents in the Middle Ages when he described human
                  nature as being influenced by four kinds of spirits. Hindu wisdom
                  proposes four central desires, and even the American Indian Medicine
                  Wheel features four spirit keepers similar to the Temperaments.

                  If we study the ways personality have been described over the past
                  25 centuries (there are even references in the Bible!), we discover
                  a consistent tendency for behavior to sort itself into four basic
                  activity patterns. These patterns represent the four Temperaments.
                  In other words, there are four common threads:

                  Four Personality Types

                  Hippocrates (450BC)
                  Sanguine
                  Melancholic
                  Phlegmatic
                  Choleric

                  Plato (350BC)
                  Artistic
                  Civic
                  Scientific
                  Philosophic

                  Galen (250AD)
                  Excited
                  Serious
                  Tranquil
                  Enthused

                  Paracelsus (1530)
                  Changeable
                  Industrious
                  Curious
                  Devoted

                  Adickes (1905)
                  Innovative
                  Traditional
                  Skeptical
                  Doctrinaire

                  Spranger (1914)
                  Aesthetic
                  Economical
                  Theoretical
                  Ethical

                  Kretschmer (1930)
                  Hypomanic
                  Depressive
                  Anaesthetic
                  Hyperaesthetic

                  Fromm (1947)
                  Exploiting
                  Hoarding
                  Marketing
                  Receptive

                  Myers (1955)
                  Realistic
                  Scheduled
                  Logical
                  Emotional

                  Keirsey/Bates (1960s)
                  Dionysian
                  Epimethean
                  Promethean
                  Appolonian

                  Keirsey (1970s)
                  Artisan
                  Guardian
                  Rational
                  Idealist

                  "It's important to recognize that Temperament is not just about
                  observable behaviors, but rather about behavioral patterns that are
                  evidence of underlying motivators -- core psychological needs that
                  when not met drive us to get them met (and not always in a positive
                  way), core values that drive the choices we make and the positions
                  we take on things, and related talents that help us get those needs
                  met. These underlying motivators must be inferred from the observed
                  behavior patterns over time and in a variety of contexts.

                  "The pattern of one's Temperament is there to begin with, like a DNA
                  code in its infancy, and it emerges via interaction with the "field"
                  or the environment. Thus we all have a core self for which the
                  template is there from birth, and then we have a developed self that
                  results from the interaction of the context or the situations we
                  find ourselves in and the inner push from the core to grow and
                  develop in certain ways to fulfill the pattern. The pattern will be
                  there always, even though it may sometimes look like other patterns
                  on the surface.

                  "Temperament refers to the theme of the personality, the
                  configuration. It gets at the very essence of what makes us who we
                  are. Temperament identifies the basic psychological needs and core
                  values that drive our behavior and our choices. Related to these
                  basic needs are favorite talents, communication styles, approaches
                  to, and perspectives on life."

                  http://www.infj.com/INFJ_Temperament.htm
                • holderlin66
                  CORRECTIONs: Meaning clearly and literally that opposite our physical sex, our etheric bodies carry an opposite mirror of our physical bodies. Which meant
                  Message 8 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
                    CORRECTIONs:

                    " Meaning clearly and literally that
                    opposite our physical sex, our etheric bodies carry an opposite
                    mirror of our physical bodies. Which meant that our etheric bodies
                    are male if we have a female physical body and our etheric bodies
                    are female if we have a male SHOULD READ - PHYSICAL (not etheric)
                    BODY. There is fact you CAN take out of the Jungian scavenger hunt and
                    replace back in the box of Steiner Science where it belongs."
                  • Steve Hale
                    ... ... The idea of synchronicity and the concept of eternal recurrence was made popular by Jung, yet he did not understand it to the degree necessary
                    Message 9 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                      <snip>
                      > And all these dispositions can only be based on karma, which is, even
                      > in wooden psychology, a empirical and provable science. And this is
                      > only provable is (for their sake) we abandon the whole notion (for
                      > the time being) of spiritual energy from the planets (though you,
                      > Bradford, and Steve Hale cannot do this) and reckon the idea of
                      > synchroncity.

                      The idea of synchronicity and the concept of eternal recurrence was
                      made popular by Jung, yet he did not understand it to the degree
                      necessary to make it anything more than the typical symbolic-mandalic,
                      mumbo jumbo that you express with your own very typical new-age
                      hodgepodge.

                      Thus, synchronicity from the standpoint of spiritual science concerns
                      the actual and progressive approach that is occurring right now, since
                      the advent of the 5th cultural epoch, for a remembrance of our past
                      lives. You'll find that experiences that come under the banner of
                      Jungian synchronicity concern increasing and extended events wherein
                      the sense of being here before is quite pronounced. I myself had an
                      extended experience of this so-called "deja vu" back in the third grade
                      when my school class went on a field trip to a railway station that had
                      been maintained just as it was at the turn of the 20th century. And I
                      remember being transfixed for the entire time we were there, feeling
                      the sense that I had experienced this very environment before. It was
                      very odd, yet quite a satisfying feeling as well.

                      And what is important about the phenomena of synchronicity concerns the
                      need to make contact with our past lives, as it represents the very
                      substance of what will someday yield the fifth soul development; the
                      anandamayakosha, or bliss sheath, which will serve to convey our
                      immortality to ourselves as a certainty.

                      Steve
                    • carol
                      Bradford spoke of the: elemental being that assists, and conforms itself to the human mood I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact a
                      Message 10 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
                        Bradford spoke of the: "elemental being that assists, and conforms
                        itself to the human mood"

                        I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact
                        a `predominance' of let's say the gnome elemental being within
                        various individuals or is it an external expression of the soul's
                        subconscious encounter with the Ahramanic being, of late:

                        -Young people who extensively or not, body pierce themselves in
                        unaesthetic places. Include to this, gross overuse of tattooing.

                        Does Bradford have an answer?


                        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                        <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > In addition to various ways to describe the human being, they
                        amount
                        > to several, lets say for the present, FOUR, integrated forces that
                        > have their origin in the already refined substance of the stars,
                        > that we term Fire, Air, Water and Earth. So the educator and
                        > psychologist such as Jung and Steiner or Jungians and Steinerians,
                        > have entered the workshop of human resources and the CIA has
                        entered
                        > the arena of education in order to wallpaper over the source of
                        > these Etheric realities that each human soul brings with them when
                        > they incarnate.
                        >
                        > In previous research I have described how the vast origins of
                        active
                        > and particpatory elemental beings come into service and
                        incarnation
                        > with the child. Only slowly, and we have described on this list
                        only
                        > recently how the etheric heart slowly ripens with the astral heart
                        > and slowly ripens to become the central sun of the I AM heart.
                        Here
                        > the human personality shines and illuminates themselves down to
                        the
                        > core of their being. Glocker and Staley on this list have
                        previously
                        > researched the Etheric Heart and Robert Mason vividly provided
                        > additonal research to the subject.
                        >
                        > But then the personality absorbs the work of the elemental beings
                        > who reprsent fire - air - water and earth in ourselves, blood
                        fire,
                        > lung and heart beat in accord with the precession of 25,920 in
                        synch
                        > with breathing, water in the terms of how Christ offered that Man
                        > must be born of Fire and Water or etheric lymphatic mysteries and
                        > the conquering fire of unconditional Logos illuminated Love which
                        > brilliantly flames in the human I AM, as that which is seriously
                        > recorded as the Transfiguration. All these are mighty science
                        > penetrations of the Cosmic I AM into the micro I Am of Man.
                        >
                        > But to build the bones, to build the blood, personality and
                        > temperaments that we try to discover in certain "compatibility
                        > tests" and these come in all sizes and shapes including
                        the 'perfect
                        > computerized Love Match" and attempt to wallpaper over the
                        mysteries
                        > that have been outlined above in the human personality, we need to
                        > be wary of. It really means that you make no effort to build for
                        > yourselves true etheric insights. So for Jungians and Spiritual
                        > Science students this is the origin, the starry quarters of our
                        > higher being have carried with us, active elemental worlds,
                        > salamandars, sylphs, nymphs and gnomes...Buddha released all these
                        > wonderful beings when he completed his emancipation of Spirit
                        > Selfhood on Earth.
                        >
                        > Buddha and Mother/ Dream I
                        >
                        > "One full moon night, sleeping in the palace, the queen had a vivid
                        > dream. She felt herself being carried away by four devas (spirits)
                        > to Lake Anotatta in the Himalayas. After bathing her in the lake,
                        > the devas clothed her in heavenly cloths, anointed her with
                        > perfumes, and bedecked her with divine flowers. Soon after a white
                        > elephant, holding a white lotus flower in its trunk, appeared and
                        > went round her three times, entering her womb through her right
                        > side. Finally the elephant disappeared and the queen awoke, knowing
                        > she had been delivered an important message, as the elephant is a
                        > symbol of greatness in Nepal. The next day, early in the morning,
                        > the queen told the king about the dream. The king was puzzled and
                        > sent for some wise men to discover the meaning of the dream."
                        >
                        > http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhism/lifebuddha/1lbud.htm
                        >
                        > Bradford sketches comments;
                        >
                        > Full Moon, watery mysteries, entering her womb through her right
                        > side, and FOUR DEVAS...Four Devas..Four different elemental beings
                        > that were the TEMPERAMENTS study for us on this list. Elemental
                        > Beings who serve the growth and development of the child and in
                        this
                        > case these Devas are going to be freed up from having served the
                        > material and personal cohesion of this incarnating being, and it is
                        > very likely that in that incarnation, Buddha, will achieve what
                        > Buddhahood means, rank of Angel, and not needing to borrow the
                        > gnome, sylph, nymph or salamander beings, who have become immensely
                        > humanized and full of compassion and literally volunteer to serve
                        > when the Jesus task comes up to imbue the rich fountain of
                        > compassion in this Jesus Human.
                        >
                        > " Paracelsus added his two cents in the Middle Ages when he
                        > described human nature as being influenced by four kinds of
                        spirits."
                        >
                        > Bradford comments;
                        >
                        > Four kinds of elemental spirits, four etheric personality
                        assistants
                        > to serve the unfolding human development, brings us into the area
                        of
                        > what we are seeing when we are seeing the qualities that we are
                        > seeing in each human personality.
                        >
                        > Paracelsus was a real doctor. A real seeing human, who did his
                        > homework and made his bones in mountain herbs, remedies in flowers,
                        > meadows, stones and stars. Paracelsus was a real Cosmos Taught,
                        > cosmos trained and probably carried insights from his past into his
                        > capacities as a human being named Paracelsus. Doctors also hated
                        > him.
                        >
                        > Humans are meant to see ever deeper into the matrix of human
                        > behavior. And surprise, what happens when we come across an
                        > elemental being that assists, and conforms itself to the human
                        mood,
                        > and mingles between the sanguine sylph like sugar high, or the
                        > fiery/salamandar, run in our hot blooded adrenal forces that make
                        > adrenal junkies, firemen, and ambulance drivers so
                        > interesting...waiting for that FIRE. Then we have the big
                        > phlegmatic, horrific fast food elemental beings that have turned
                        > most Americans into chubby rolls of jiggly blubber. You can see
                        > these horrific ugly elementals parade themselves in TELETUBBY land.
                        > And of course the gnomish, reclusive, veiled and hooded, even to
                        the
                        > point of wearing hoods, melancholics.
                        >
                        > What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
                        > friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
                        > within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
                        > exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
                        > in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
                        > taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
                        > our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child
                        should
                        > not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
                        > friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent
                        ASAP "Heart
                        > and Souls".
                        >
                        > Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
                        > called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
                        > people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
                        > air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
                        > need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
                        > and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to
                        understand
                        > anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the
                        dots
                        > that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
                        > Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything.
                        >
                        > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107091/
                        >
                        > "Robert Downey, Jr. plays a young man whose life is going very
                        well:
                        > he's engaged to Elisabeth Shue, he's got a lot of money working as
                        a
                        > lawyer or such...until some old friends of his drop in--imaginary
                        > friends, that is. Sort of. Dead imaginary friends that only he can
                        > see.
                        >
                        > "Many years ago, some people boarded a bus, including Charles
                        Grodin
                        > and Tom Sizemore. The bus flipped over a bridge and everyone died,
                        > going to heaven. But then they came back down involuntarily to
                        > Downey as a child and stayed with him for a few years. Every time
                        > they tried to leave him, they were pulled back to him. Until he was
                        > about eight, then they somehow managed to leave because they were
                        > influencing his schoolwork and life (I don't remember how they got
                        > out of it). Now they're back to haunt him again, because they need
                        > him to help get to heaven.
                        >
                        > holderlin had previously researched:
                        >
                        > "What the true Waldorf
                        > Teacher would aim for, is that all four of the fire, air, water and
                        > earth, all four of the Choleric, Sanguine, Phlegmatic or
                        Melancholic
                        > temperaments would be of use and in balanced animation in every
                        > child. A true Waldorf Teacher knows that you want maximum mobility
                        > and that the child will need the buried treasures of the four
                        ethers
                        > as they move through all the stages of life."
                        >
                        > Other supportive research to advanced psychology:
                        >
                        > "The earliest recorded attempts of humans to explain the
                        differences
                        > among us are found in ancient astrology. Astrology said that the
                        > way the heavens were aligned when you were born determined your
                        > behavior. Astrologers used twelve constellations in the sky and
                        > four major groupings, symbolized by earth, air, fire, and water.
                        > They claimed that the movement of the sun, moon, and planets would
                        > influence your behavior patterns or your fate.
                        >
                        > Thousands of years ago, stars were what they went by, and your
                        > personality was determined "out there" in the heavens.
                        >
                        > Then, about 400 B.C., Hippocrates (the "Father of Medicine")
                        > developed a concept of "humours." He introduced a radical idea that
                        > said personality was determined by elements inside your body, not
                        > the stars outside your body. For a well-balanced temperament, he
                        > thought you needed equal amounts of the 4 body fluids: black bile,
                        > yellow bile, blood, and phlegm. (Delightful, huh?)
                        >
                        > Hippocrates associated his "humours" with Temperament names. Many
                        > people are familiar with them: Choleric, Phlegmatic, Sanguine, and
                        > Melancholic. (I'm still fond of using these names sometimes.) So
                        > that's when the naming game started, and everybody came up with
                        > their version and their names for these four types. Paracelsus
                        > added his two cents in the Middle Ages when he described human
                        > nature as being influenced by four kinds of spirits. Hindu wisdom
                        > proposes four central desires, and even the American Indian
                        Medicine
                        > Wheel features four spirit keepers similar to the Temperaments.
                        >
                        > If we study the ways personality have been described over the past
                        > 25 centuries (there are even references in the Bible!), we discover
                        > a consistent tendency for behavior to sort itself into four basic
                        > activity patterns. These patterns represent the four Temperaments.
                        > In other words, there are four common threads:
                        >
                        > Four Personality Types
                        >
                        > Hippocrates (450BC)
                        > Sanguine
                        > Melancholic
                        > Phlegmatic
                        > Choleric
                        >
                        > Plato (350BC)
                        > Artistic
                        > Civic
                        > Scientific
                        > Philosophic
                        >
                        > Galen (250AD)
                        > Excited
                        > Serious
                        > Tranquil
                        > Enthused
                        >
                        > Paracelsus (1530)
                        > Changeable
                        > Industrious
                        > Curious
                        > Devoted
                        >
                        > Adickes (1905)
                        > Innovative
                        > Traditional
                        > Skeptical
                        > Doctrinaire
                        >
                        > Spranger (1914)
                        > Aesthetic
                        > Economical
                        > Theoretical
                        > Ethical
                        >
                        > Kretschmer (1930)
                        > Hypomanic
                        > Depressive
                        > Anaesthetic
                        > Hyperaesthetic
                        >
                        > Fromm (1947)
                        > Exploiting
                        > Hoarding
                        > Marketing
                        > Receptive
                        >
                        > Myers (1955)
                        > Realistic
                        > Scheduled
                        > Logical
                        > Emotional
                        >
                        > Keirsey/Bates (1960s)
                        > Dionysian
                        > Epimethean
                        > Promethean
                        > Appolonian
                        >
                        > Keirsey (1970s)
                        > Artisan
                        > Guardian
                        > Rational
                        > Idealist
                        >
                        > "It's important to recognize that Temperament is not just about
                        > observable behaviors, but rather about behavioral patterns that are
                        > evidence of underlying motivators -- core psychological needs that
                        > when not met drive us to get them met (and not always in a positive
                        > way), core values that drive the choices we make and the positions
                        > we take on things, and related talents that help us get those needs
                        > met. These underlying motivators must be inferred from the observed
                        > behavior patterns over time and in a variety of contexts.
                        >
                        > "The pattern of one's Temperament is there to begin with, like a
                        DNA
                        > code in its infancy, and it emerges via interaction with
                        the "field"
                        > or the environment. Thus we all have a core self for which the
                        > template is there from birth, and then we have a developed self
                        that
                        > results from the interaction of the context or the situations we
                        > find ourselves in and the inner push from the core to grow and
                        > develop in certain ways to fulfill the pattern. The pattern will be
                        > there always, even though it may sometimes look like other patterns
                        > on the surface.
                        >
                        > "Temperament refers to the theme of the personality, the
                        > configuration. It gets at the very essence of what makes us who we
                        > are. Temperament identifies the basic psychological needs and core
                        > values that drive our behavior and our choices. Related to these
                        > basic needs are favorite talents, communication styles, approaches
                        > to, and perspectives on life."
                        >
                        > http://www.infj.com/INFJ_Temperament.htm
                        >
                      • opetha
                        Hello Bradford OK, I understand what you re saying if only you wouldn t go so far ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of that
                        Message 11 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
                          Hello Bradford

                          OK, I understand what you're saying if only you wouldn't go so far
                          ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of that
                          psychological type.

                          Jung's teaching was empirical as possible, he did not want to venture
                          into the realm of spiritual sciences because he would leave mankind
                          behind, which is what you tend to do. I don't agree with the notion
                          that analytical psychology is a "scavenger hunt", the truth is that
                          Jung and Steinar are like two sides of a coin, Jung of the
                          unconscious and Steinar of the concious, and that you are biased
                          because you represent, not a higher thinking, but a different HALF,
                          and this is an empirical and provable thing (please don't argue with
                          this--I know exactly what you will say). The set of four psychologicl
                          types in Jung is not based on the same type of conscious thinking as
                          all those quartets you gave me, and , unfortunately, is understood
                          even less by spiritual thinking other philosophies.

                          [I hope this comes out well in the post....]

                          THINKING
                          *
                          *
                          *
                          INTUITION****************SENSATION
                          *
                          *
                          *
                          FEELING

                          These are not vague concepts as in the elements and biles.
                          Jung says of your THINKING type:

                          "..there is still a another form of negative thinking, which at first
                          glance might not be recognized as such, and that is THEOSOPHICAL
                          THINKING, which today is rapidly spreading in all parts of the world,
                          presumably in reaction to materialism of the recent past.
                          Theosophical thinkng has an air that is not in the least reductive
                          [that is, you will not come down to my level!!--Godot] since it
                          exalts everything to a transcendental and world-embracing idea. A
                          dream, for instance, is no longer just a dream, but an experience 'on
                          another plane.' The herethereto fact of telepathy is very simply
                          explained in 'vibrations' passing from one person to another. An
                          ordinary nervous complaint is explained by the fact that something
                          has collided with my 'astral body'.....We have only to open a
                          theosophical book to be overwhelmed by the realization that
                          everything is already explained, and that 'spiritual science' has
                          left no enigmas unsolved. But, at bottom, this type of thinking is
                          just as negative as materialistic thinking. When the latter regards
                          psychology as chemical changes in the ganglia or ther extrusion and
                          retraction of cell-pseudopodia or as internal secretion, this is as
                          much a superstition as theosophy. The only thing is that theosophy
                          reduces everything to eastern metaphysics.....Not only are both
                          methods of explanation futile, they are actually destructive, because
                          by diverting interest away from the main issue....to imaginary
                          vibrations, they hamper any serious investigation of the problem by
                          bogus explanation. Either kind of thinking is sterile and
                          sterilizing. Its negative quality is due to the fact it is so
                          indescribably cheap." -Psychological Types, X.2

                          This cross of function types is an innate truth, not a conditioned
                          one by meditation which any other quaternary of types would be.
                          The "theosophical" thinking is not the I AM you think it is because
                          it is the outer arm of this cross. You and Steve have written so
                          much, but to me it doesn't quite speak my language, you use many
                          metpahors and "force" words to prove you are excilerated, but in bias
                          you will not reckon with the other half of mankind, like lucifer.
                          Don't get me wrong, I am one wanting to develop my spiritual
                          integrity, but it doesn't come quite as you think.

                          You call me a "scavenger" and Mr. Hale says my talking is "new-age
                          hodge-podge" (hang on !!--I thought you were the new-agers), which
                          shows you are very combative in your own personalitistic ways and
                          defensive of your drives, almost adolescent--and I have nothing
                          against this, I will try to be fair but I'm still worried that you
                          are UNABLE to be; and only stress this because, afterall, if you want
                          to communicate with mankind you had better be considerate and not
                          talk in the language you do of warped "power-words" to your own kind,
                          and to your paying audience, because "mankind", as you maybe use that
                          term, will NOT listen to you if you go so far ahead of them. What the
                          other half of us CAN experience is our own unknown soul, which is the
                          empirical unconscious (to reiterate Jung and Steinar are quite the
                          opposites, Steinar was equally right because he had no
                          unconsciousness, and what he did know of unconsciousness was
                          conditioned by conscious metaphor and not by deductive reasoning---
                          i.e. the dream-world is the "macrocosm" and not an instancing of sub-
                          conscious complexes).

                          A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school and
                          shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use him as
                          an example of someone who can be cured by analytical psychology, but
                          NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the leaps of faith and
                          consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars until he confronts
                          himself on the Earth, no matter how "scavangering" this will be to
                          him. You want to propound your science through cosmic rhetoric more
                          than you want to heal, is this not so?

                          Other (fundamental) thinking types with this type of "be all end all"
                          thinking include Hitler and, on TV today, Docter Zakir Naik of the
                          IRF and who claims that all sciences were written in the Q'URAN
                          before they were discovered, proving God's greatness (and also that
                          the Q'URAN is the most-divine poetry ever written !!). Both are great
                          extraverted talkers because they BELEIVE 100% what they are saying is
                          true, and the audience get cosmic about this, and propaganda rears
                          its head. The unconsciouis has innate and fundamental referencing
                          that can counteract any rarified thinking--but you anthroposophists
                          cannot understand my language because the feeling-tone behnd yours.

                          I take it my use of the word "karma" to you was a scavaging. I could
                          equally say the same of Steinar's use of the word "unconscious". The
                          natal horoscope progressed at 1/360th of its normal speed shows the
                          symbols that, bad or good, will be activated in our course of life.
                          These are synchronicities in so far that they give shape, heiroglyp
                          and/or colour to unconscious archetypes without such, and give them a
                          linear qualification. This is the best argument for the "spiritual
                          sciences", this method of "psychological-astrology", because it is
                          provable on the subjective plane and not on the objective. It is not
                          scavaging in the sense that Jung is stealing something from your
                          school, you have to be considerate and pay heed to this your opposite
                          and compensator. The mandala was not new-age hodge-podge, it was a
                          glimpse into the innateness of that horoscope and its centre as the
                          SELF (or Brahm, the aura eminating from a plant was just one of the
                          baised illusions Buddha destroyed).

                          I would love to see aura and travel on the astral planet like you
                          might do (I have already innitiated SOME magical virtues, still with
                          the empirical unconsious undernieth, and still with my consideration
                          of your mind set and abandining my own at those instances) but if I
                          advance in this area it may not be because you have taught me but
                          because I have taught myself. It may be because I am British and have
                          not the type of whispy heads that you Americans have, but I cannot
                          affiliate myself with something so biased and off centre and that is
                          too depserate to convince like olf Adolf and Doctor Naik. The astral
                          rewards are one thing--yes, I know that, but the abandonement of the
                          emprirical unconscious (with mankind aong with it) is quite another.
                          I will stick to my raja yoga and destroy your lucifer AND my ahriman.

                          With love,
                          Godot.








                          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@> wrote:
                          > <snip>
                          > > And all these dispositions can only be based on karma, which is,
                          even
                          > > in wooden psychology, a empirical and provable science. And this
                          is
                          > > only provable is (for their sake) we abandon the whole notion
                          (for
                          > > the time being) of spiritual energy from the planets (though you,
                          > > Bradford, and Steve Hale cannot do this) and reckon the idea of
                          > > synchroncity.
                          >
                          > The idea of synchronicity and the concept of eternal recurrence was
                          > made popular by Jung, yet he did not understand it to the degree
                          > necessary to make it anything more than the typical symbolic-
                          mandalic,
                          > mumbo jumbo that you express with your own very typical new-age
                          > hodgepodge.
                          >
                          > Thus, synchronicity from the standpoint of spiritual science
                          concerns
                          > the actual and progressive approach that is occurring right now,
                          since
                          > the advent of the 5th cultural epoch, for a remembrance of our past
                          > lives. You'll find that experiences that come under the banner of
                          > Jungian synchronicity concern increasing and extended events
                          wherein
                          > the sense of being here before is quite pronounced. I myself had
                          an
                          > extended experience of this so-called "deja vu" back in the third
                          grade
                          > when my school class went on a field trip to a railway station that
                          had
                          > been maintained just as it was at the turn of the 20th century.
                          And I
                          > remember being transfixed for the entire time we were there,
                          feeling
                          > the sense that I had experienced this very environment before. It
                          was
                          > very odd, yet quite a satisfying feeling as well.
                          >
                          > And what is important about the phenomena of synchronicity concerns
                          the
                          > need to make contact with our past lives, as it represents the very
                          > substance of what will someday yield the fifth soul development;
                          the
                          > anandamayakosha, or bliss sheath, which will serve to convey our
                          > immortality to ourselves as a certainty.
                          >
                          > Steve
                          >
                        • holderlin66
                          carol wrote: I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact a `predominance of let s say the gnome elemental being within various individuals
                          Message 12 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
                            carol wrote:

                            "I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact
                            a `predominance' of let's say the gnome elemental being within
                            various individuals or is it an external expression of the soul's
                            subconscious encounter" encounters....

                            Bradford comments;

                            Tatoo's are fads. But the attraction to being considered 'special'
                            because you have a groovy tattoo is based mostly on the serious
                            melancholic temperament. However because of the nature of
                            faddishness, it is 'cool' to have body this and body that which is
                            meaningless to the soul content. The soul content that these
                            abstract soul scavengers think is cool is merely a fad like high
                            school girls wearing very short navel exposed tee-shirts. I'm a
                            teacher for heaven's sake, this is all unessential soul trivia. Just
                            like rap, and baggy shorts and dressin like some punk gangsta. It
                            means literally ' 0 '. None of these fads have secured any type of
                            soul perception.

                            The human soul when it comes into incarnation brings with it a
                            suitcase full of fire, air, water, earth, personality features and
                            traits that are true elemental servants. These eventually become
                            modified well shaped plastic or mobile features of the animated
                            personality. Once again please note, these beings are part of what
                            we carry within our I AM and karmic package when we incarnate. These
                            beings assist us and become integrated into our personality make-up
                            until what we see as the type of personality, with their four
                            traits, no longer reveals to the eye the elemental, yet the
                            elemental is in there.

                            Now gnomish, and Ahrimanic greys and predominating depressive
                            elemental beings that form the melancholic dominating personality
                            trait can be part of the actual ahrimanized and corrupted inner
                            vision of the soul that are felt when there are rumors of alien
                            Abductees. However the outline I am offering is the solid basis of
                            what we carry from the spiritual world into physical incarnation and
                            what Buddha carried and freed up and transformed and what we are
                            assigned to transform. Part of our job is to humanized and free up
                            these elemental servants as Buddha did, when we complete our
                            development as humans. We don't get released from incarnation, from
                            physical matter if have not acknowledged and learned of these four
                            beings and forces in our nature as operative cosmic servants.

                            Sanguine Type:

                            The Sylph and the sylph type lends the personality terms like dumb
                            blonde or shop till you drop joy boys and sunshine girls. Swooping,
                            lightness, fun loving and generally in a sunshine mood, the sylph
                            would tend to lift the human spirit, bring a smile to a sad face and
                            when a little child is in a crying jag, sometimes it is the colorful
                            sylph aspect of hidden temperament that must come out of the child
                            and the child also gets to know, learns to get to know what that
                            laughter triggers and how to understand laughter as a visitation and
                            entrance into the sylph style of behavior that has to do with Air
                            and Light. Air, light and joy as part of the old sylph being that
                            has come with the child from the spiritual world, as part of its
                            etheric foundation and can be used as part of its personality trait
                            has also a downside.

                            Sometimes when this personality trait dominates, we understand that
                            the personality, the human personality is being protected by the
                            sylph and the human being hides within the sylph light because the
                            darkness all around the soul damages the human child and the
                            darkness around that it saw when a child forced it to hide within
                            the Sylph lightness, the unbearable lightness of being. And we can
                            see how this lightness, lack of depth becomes a sort of personality
                            crutch for the child as he/she develops. A place where no hard
                            thoughts harm and people are given pleasure instead of pain to
                            disguise their hurts. A lot of the sylph or sanguine natured adults
                            have arisen due to childhood abuses in one way or another.

                            http://www.wam.umd.edu/~llsp/sylph.jpg

                            holderlin wrote:

                            "What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
                            friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
                            within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
                            exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
                            in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
                            taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
                            our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child should
                            not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
                            friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent ASAP "Heart
                            and Souls".

                            "Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
                            called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
                            people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
                            air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
                            need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
                            and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to understand
                            anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the dots
                            that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
                            Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything."

                            Phlegmatic Type:

                            The water nixie and watery nymph enjoices the juices, the tastes and
                            the good meals of sitting at fine dining. How do the wines taste?
                            What springs and vineyards yield the finest wines? What makes you
                            salivate and gets the Water Nymph/Phlegmatic side of your nature to
                            rise up out of your physical body, your physical stone base and
                            lends you the mood he/she brings forward?

                            Teletubby's are the obnoxious little demon nymphs that have been
                            fostered by a fast food, phat America, false saliviating taste-bud
                            blubber, bouncing, over weight America, from children to their flaky
                            trailer park parents, have been made into numbed, television rotted,
                            staring vegtables, which is to insult the fine work that the water
                            spirits do in vegetables.

                            Who fooled the Nymph? Who has polluted her cosmic tastes, our
                            intimate human cosmic waters, that Thetis, mother of Achilles is
                            famous for? Monsanto and fully failed, misleading and whored taste-
                            buds that have marketed supermarket crap that children must eat as
                            fads, phat, and foul corporate profits to sustain their lies. I can
                            tell you that Sanguine, Choleric and Melancholic natures are more
                            prized in our fast paced society than the phlegmatic, steady, nearly
                            photographic brain of the overweight phlegmatic is.

                            http://snowbarsk.autoklad.com/images/zasimovich/sculpture/5.jpg

                            Choleric type;

                            Now the hot blooded and fiery choleric, can be found in Emergency
                            Rooms and in Medics everywhere. They are not always fiery red-headed
                            carrot tops that always stare at you with 'come on, go ahead, I can
                            take ya' faces. That fire appears in the soft embering glow of
                            Steiner's in depth lectures, fiery Michael forces supercharged his
                            blood, where the warmth in his Iron and Light ignited spirit flares
                            that revealed clarity where there was gathering darkness. His words
                            rang as consecrated light in all directions. Fission, fusion and
                            Iron centered sun spirituality cooked Steiner's rich dishes with a
                            warm, kindled, human blaze.

                            But then again, on the battle front of life, saving lives, from fire
                            men and women to police and swat teams to search and rescue on the
                            high seas, to special forces teams, you hear the choleric
                            shout, 'GO, GO, GO, GO!'. Adrenaline junkies can be found working
                            rush hours in restaurants, on the cooking line in the heat of the
                            battle, where the grills spit fire right in their faces and they
                            spit back. Choleric fire is in all of us, even Tiger Woods breaks
                            from his Zen mode to get really pissed off sometimes.

                            "Some people – and all narcissists – are addicted to excitement, to
                            the adrenaline rush, to the danger inevitably and invariably
                            involved. They are the adrenaline junkies. All narcissists are
                            adrenaline junkies – but not all adrenaline junkies are narcissists.

                            Thus, an adrenaline junkie must have a supply, a feed, which always
                            comes with invented excitement, real or invented drama or emotional
                            drama queens that have choleric forces in their feeling life. We can
                            understand that choleric forces or any of the other temperaments can
                            lodge themselves, not only in the will, but in the feeling, and in
                            the region of mental aggression. On the one hand solid Choleric
                            types are described as closer to the ground, Napoleonic and over
                            confident. In a pinch you know that a Choleric will cover your back,
                            fight to the death and remain in the game though anxiety is
                            everywhere and the odds against you are everywhere a great choleric
                            will be the last face you see before you pass out.

                            When unable to secure "normal" Narcissistic Supply – adulation,
                            recognition, fame, celebrity, notoriety, infamy, affirmation, or
                            mere attention – the adrenaline junkie resorts to "abnormal"
                            attention grabbers. He tries to obtain his drug – the thrills, the
                            good feeling that comes with adrenalin – by behaving recklessly, by
                            succumbing to substance abuse, or by living dangerously.

                            Such narcissists – faced with a chronic state of deficient
                            Narcissistic Supply – become criminals, or race drivers, or
                            gamblers, or soldiers, or investigative journalists. They defy
                            authority. They avoid safety, routine and boredom – no safe sex, no
                            financial prudence, no stable marriage or career. They become
                            peripatetic, change jobs, or lovers, or vocations, or avocations, or
                            residences, or friendships often.

                            But sometimes even these extreme and demonstrative steps are not
                            enough. When confronted with a boring, routine existence – with a
                            chronic and permanent inability to secure Narcissistic Supply and
                            excitement – these people compensate by inventing thrills where
                            there are none."

                            http://phopro.ie/earthspirit/fire_salamander.jpg

                            http://www.matrifocus.com/IMB05/images/fire-salamander-sm.jpg

                            Melancholic type;

                            The Melancholic earth dominated, nihilistic, Columbine depression,
                            Nietzsche fixated, hooded rapper has a sharp wit. Often sees the
                            bitter edges, the flaws, the inconsistencies and certainly
                            gravitates and finds its deepest kindled light out of darkness. You
                            could look at how Rembrandt took the darkness and found in it golden
                            hues...as highly interesting.

                            The compression of darkness and the usual Adam's family values of
                            tatoos, dark flesh piercings, pain, S&M, torture, the daughter in
                            the film "BeetleJuice" dressed in black and seeing dead people bring
                            the soul into connection with the current cultural gesture of
                            XXXXXtreme melancholic and enchained gnomes who must be sentenced,
                            as the roots of trees, and mines are strip mined, and earth is
                            carved up, the gnomes are sucked into a horrificaly depressing
                            computerization of human intellectual forces.

                            The Earth spirit gnome, ruled the biting wit of intellectual forces
                            and now lurking in the mines and dark regions of the soul are
                            Ahriman's horrific hordes. And sucked into the electro magnitic
                            sphere, gnomes are compressed into Internet darkness where humans
                            fail to see the depth and light that is in the intellect, the same
                            as they refuse and fail to see the depths and ROOTS of the universe,
                            the soul and the Spirit as the roots of a great Tree of the I AM,
                            Yggdrassil. Wagner and Tolkien felt the dark tug of the gnome
                            community, wiped out and forced into elemental slave labor within
                            the the electronic, hi-tech communications systems, inventions and
                            military experimentation.

                            Vast bacteria, watery, laser, and hi-tech atomic table forces are
                            being whored, harnassed demonized in labs and forced into elemental
                            labor and etheric torture to bring epidemics, annhilation by fire,
                            radiation, and disrupting earthquakes, tidal waves and many of them
                            now merely human generated for selfless political ends from the far
                            west. Because the human sylph, nymph, salamander and gnome forces in
                            the healing processes of the human being are being trained literally
                            as Tolkien described how the elves became Orcs. But the joke is on
                            humanity. For these beings are literally ripping into the cosmic
                            human model and the safeguards of the human healing systems by labs
                            that the American people are paying for so that the surface
                            intellect can remain in its ahrimanized slumber. This was not the
                            Agel of Light our children came to participate in, but the its
                            horrific opposite and it is U, U who sit there and read these things
                            that have failed to IMAGINE clearly what is going on.

                            This mighty potential and sacrifice of the melancholic gomes, where
                            humans cannot think and they merely become the darkness, become
                            nihilistic, become dangerous in their own stewing darkness, enjoy
                            their selfish dangers, dark drugs and brooding faddishness...shames
                            Hamlet and Hamlet is our own Consciousness Soul. Our Consciousness
                            Soul does have a gesture and certainly the black suited Dr. Steiner
                            and that sort of lecture fad, wouldn't have our usual melancholics
                            and deep thinkers, now parading around in Hawaiian shirts now would
                            they? Well they should play against type and certainly Steiner would
                            not be all tatooed with dark coal tints under his eyes for that
                            vampire effect, if he walked into a room today. But Anthros still
                            see it that way. Anthros hardly would trust an infusion of happy
                            rollicking Michaelites pulling up in their Harley's to give
                            conferences and talks. They have to be conservative, sober and
                            unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings
                            latent in the Anthro, because Anthros just want to gawk and stare at
                            the old b/w photos of Der Doctor, instead of revealing the bubbling
                            life of the new Etheric Worlds. Eh?

                            http://www.jazlink.com/jazlbums/England/HPIM0074.sized.jpg

                            http://www.sculpturebyspirit.com/door.html
                          • Steve Hale
                            ... that ... Yes, Bradford writes alot, just as you write alot. Actually, I don t see much of a difference. Now, I try to write in brief because it serves to
                            Message 13 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
                              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hello Bradford
                              >
                              > OK, I understand what you're saying if only you wouldn't go so far
                              > ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of
                              that
                              > psychological type.

                              Yes, Bradford writes alot, just as you write alot. Actually, I
                              don't see much of a difference. Now, I try to write in brief
                              because it serves to catch the eye, and maybe gets a response, which
                              is what I look for. I said you wrote "hodgepodge" because you were
                              pulling out all stops to write 'new-age' dribble, which some
                              possibly could have found offensive. In fact, I found your initial
                              post offensive and arrogant. And that is why I didn't respond to
                              indications of Steinerian concepts from his "Foundations of
                              Esotericism" lectures from 1905.

                              You are quite right in that Jung and Steiner represent a polarity;
                              just as Kant and Steiner represent a polarity from a philosophical
                              standpoint. This has all been gone over before, on that other
                              little ship called the s.s. minnow. Jung is to psychology what Kant
                              is to philosophy in terms of limits to knowledge and perception.
                              And Rudolf Steiner overcame these bounds for those that seek to
                              overcome such limits in order to go further in terms of knowledge
                              and being.

                              Esotericism and its relationship to modern thought is what interests
                              me. Spiritual science exists in order to extend thinking and
                              knowledge into the causal realm that stands behind external
                              phenomena. But you have to take up the study in earnest, just as
                              you have taken up your study of Jungian principles according to a
                              collective unconsciousness that is quite attractive to people today
                              because it leaves the mysteries and enigmas alone; except to engage
                              in conservative speculation about what things mean in the greater
                              course of events.

                              Thus, synchonicity and its phenomenal representation is a fact that
                              only spiritual science can truly penetrate into its causality as an
                              increasing experience of spiritual necessity. I didn't want to lose
                              that important point.

                              Steve
                            • carol
                              Thanks so much! As for this; They have to be conservative, sober and unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings latent in the Anthro,
                              Message 14 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
                                Thanks so much!

                                As for this;
                                They have to be conservative, sober and
                                unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings
                                latent in the Anthro, because Anthros just want to gawk and stare at
                                the old b/w photos of Der Doctor, instead of revealing the bubbling
                                life of the new Etheric Worlds. Eh?

                                I beleive it's changing with the younger generation's influence but
                                I agree with you, I was puzzled by it a few decades ago when I
                                apprached the 'community'; and also worth mentioning is the setbacks
                                at remaining dependent on group development. You're taliking to a
                                former minor Gothic who lived by Anthroposophy but could never feel
                                safe nor individual creative freedom anywhere near the 'community'.

                                I have the impression that it's changing; the few Anthros that I do
                                know have matured and are past their pretentious and competitive
                                years. Like what occurs within the general population, once you get
                                past a certain age, it's easier to appreciate one another.

                                Carol.




                                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > carol wrote:
                                >
                                > "I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact
                                > a `predominance' of let's say the gnome elemental being within
                                > various individuals or is it an external expression of the soul's
                                > subconscious encounter" encounters....
                                >
                                > Bradford comments;
                                >
                                > Tatoo's are fads. But the attraction to being considered 'special'
                                > because you have a groovy tattoo is based mostly on the serious
                                > melancholic temperament. However because of the nature of
                                > faddishness, it is 'cool' to have body this and body that which is
                                > meaningless to the soul content. The soul content that these
                                > abstract soul scavengers think is cool is merely a fad like high
                                > school girls wearing very short navel exposed tee-shirts. I'm a
                                > teacher for heaven's sake, this is all unessential soul trivia.
                                Just
                                > like rap, and baggy shorts and dressin like some punk gangsta. It
                                > means literally ' 0 '. None of these fads have secured any type
                                of
                                > soul perception.
                                >
                                > The human soul when it comes into incarnation brings with it a
                                > suitcase full of fire, air, water, earth, personality features and
                                > traits that are true elemental servants. These eventually become
                                > modified well shaped plastic or mobile features of the animated
                                > personality. Once again please note, these beings are part of what
                                > we carry within our I AM and karmic package when we incarnate.
                                These
                                > beings assist us and become integrated into our personality make-
                                up
                                > until what we see as the type of personality, with their four
                                > traits, no longer reveals to the eye the elemental, yet the
                                > elemental is in there.
                                >
                                > Now gnomish, and Ahrimanic greys and predominating depressive
                                > elemental beings that form the melancholic dominating personality
                                > trait can be part of the actual ahrimanized and corrupted inner
                                > vision of the soul that are felt when there are rumors of alien
                                > Abductees. However the outline I am offering is the solid basis of
                                > what we carry from the spiritual world into physical incarnation
                                and
                                > what Buddha carried and freed up and transformed and what we are
                                > assigned to transform. Part of our job is to humanized and free up
                                > these elemental servants as Buddha did, when we complete our
                                > development as humans. We don't get released from incarnation,
                                from
                                > physical matter if have not acknowledged and learned of these four
                                > beings and forces in our nature as operative cosmic servants.
                                >
                                > Sanguine Type:
                                >
                                > The Sylph and the sylph type lends the personality terms like dumb
                                > blonde or shop till you drop joy boys and sunshine girls. Swooping,
                                > lightness, fun loving and generally in a sunshine mood, the sylph
                                > would tend to lift the human spirit, bring a smile to a sad face
                                and
                                > when a little child is in a crying jag, sometimes it is the
                                colorful
                                > sylph aspect of hidden temperament that must come out of the child
                                > and the child also gets to know, learns to get to know what that
                                > laughter triggers and how to understand laughter as a visitation
                                and
                                > entrance into the sylph style of behavior that has to do with Air
                                > and Light. Air, light and joy as part of the old sylph being that
                                > has come with the child from the spiritual world, as part of its
                                > etheric foundation and can be used as part of its personality trait
                                > has also a downside.
                                >
                                > Sometimes when this personality trait dominates, we understand that
                                > the personality, the human personality is being protected by the
                                > sylph and the human being hides within the sylph light because the
                                > darkness all around the soul damages the human child and the
                                > darkness around that it saw when a child forced it to hide within
                                > the Sylph lightness, the unbearable lightness of being. And we can
                                > see how this lightness, lack of depth becomes a sort of personality
                                > crutch for the child as he/she develops. A place where no hard
                                > thoughts harm and people are given pleasure instead of pain to
                                > disguise their hurts. A lot of the sylph or sanguine natured adults
                                > have arisen due to childhood abuses in one way or another.
                                >
                                > http://www.wam.umd.edu/~llsp/sylph.jpg
                                >
                                > holderlin wrote:
                                >
                                > "What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
                                > friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
                                > within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
                                > exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
                                > in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
                                > taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
                                > our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child
                                should
                                > not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
                                > friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent
                                ASAP "Heart
                                > and Souls".
                                >
                                > "Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
                                > called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
                                > people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
                                > air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
                                > need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
                                > and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to
                                understand
                                > anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the
                                dots
                                > that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
                                > Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything."
                                >
                                > Phlegmatic Type:
                                >
                                > The water nixie and watery nymph enjoices the juices, the tastes
                                and
                                > the good meals of sitting at fine dining. How do the wines taste?
                                > What springs and vineyards yield the finest wines? What makes you
                                > salivate and gets the Water Nymph/Phlegmatic side of your nature to
                                > rise up out of your physical body, your physical stone base and
                                > lends you the mood he/she brings forward?
                                >
                                > Teletubby's are the obnoxious little demon nymphs that have been
                                > fostered by a fast food, phat America, false saliviating taste-bud
                                > blubber, bouncing, over weight America, from children to their
                                flaky
                                > trailer park parents, have been made into numbed, television
                                rotted,
                                > staring vegtables, which is to insult the fine work that the water
                                > spirits do in vegetables.
                                >
                                > Who fooled the Nymph? Who has polluted her cosmic tastes, our
                                > intimate human cosmic waters, that Thetis, mother of Achilles is
                                > famous for? Monsanto and fully failed, misleading and whored taste-
                                > buds that have marketed supermarket crap that children must eat as
                                > fads, phat, and foul corporate profits to sustain their lies. I can
                                > tell you that Sanguine, Choleric and Melancholic natures are more
                                > prized in our fast paced society than the phlegmatic, steady,
                                nearly
                                > photographic brain of the overweight phlegmatic is.
                                >
                                > http://snowbarsk.autoklad.com/images/zasimovich/sculpture/5.jpg
                                >
                                > Choleric type;
                                >
                                > Now the hot blooded and fiery choleric, can be found in Emergency
                                > Rooms and in Medics everywhere. They are not always fiery red-
                                headed
                                > carrot tops that always stare at you with 'come on, go ahead, I can
                                > take ya' faces. That fire appears in the soft embering glow of
                                > Steiner's in depth lectures, fiery Michael forces supercharged his
                                > blood, where the warmth in his Iron and Light ignited spirit flares
                                > that revealed clarity where there was gathering darkness. His words
                                > rang as consecrated light in all directions. Fission, fusion and
                                > Iron centered sun spirituality cooked Steiner's rich dishes with a
                                > warm, kindled, human blaze.
                                >
                                > But then again, on the battle front of life, saving lives, from
                                fire
                                > men and women to police and swat teams to search and rescue on the
                                > high seas, to special forces teams, you hear the choleric
                                > shout, 'GO, GO, GO, GO!'. Adrenaline junkies can be found working
                                > rush hours in restaurants, on the cooking line in the heat of the
                                > battle, where the grills spit fire right in their faces and they
                                > spit back. Choleric fire is in all of us, even Tiger Woods breaks
                                > from his Zen mode to get really pissed off sometimes.
                                >
                                > "Some people – and all narcissists – are addicted to excitement, to
                                > the adrenaline rush, to the danger inevitably and invariably
                                > involved. They are the adrenaline junkies. All narcissists are
                                > adrenaline junkies – but not all adrenaline junkies are
                                narcissists.
                                >
                                > Thus, an adrenaline junkie must have a supply, a feed, which always
                                > comes with invented excitement, real or invented drama or emotional
                                > drama queens that have choleric forces in their feeling life. We
                                can
                                > understand that choleric forces or any of the other temperaments
                                can
                                > lodge themselves, not only in the will, but in the feeling, and in
                                > the region of mental aggression. On the one hand solid Choleric
                                > types are described as closer to the ground, Napoleonic and over
                                > confident. In a pinch you know that a Choleric will cover your
                                back,
                                > fight to the death and remain in the game though anxiety is
                                > everywhere and the odds against you are everywhere a great choleric
                                > will be the last face you see before you pass out.
                                >
                                > When unable to secure "normal" Narcissistic Supply – adulation,
                                > recognition, fame, celebrity, notoriety, infamy, affirmation, or
                                > mere attention – the adrenaline junkie resorts to "abnormal"
                                > attention grabbers. He tries to obtain his drug – the thrills, the
                                > good feeling that comes with adrenalin – by behaving recklessly, by
                                > succumbing to substance abuse, or by living dangerously.
                                >
                                > Such narcissists – faced with a chronic state of deficient
                                > Narcissistic Supply – become criminals, or race drivers, or
                                > gamblers, or soldiers, or investigative journalists. They defy
                                > authority. They avoid safety, routine and boredom – no safe sex, no
                                > financial prudence, no stable marriage or career. They become
                                > peripatetic, change jobs, or lovers, or vocations, or avocations,
                                or
                                > residences, or friendships often.
                                >
                                > But sometimes even these extreme and demonstrative steps are not
                                > enough. When confronted with a boring, routine existence – with a
                                > chronic and permanent inability to secure Narcissistic Supply and
                                > excitement – these people compensate by inventing thrills where
                                > there are none."
                                >
                                > http://phopro.ie/earthspirit/fire_salamander.jpg
                                >
                                > http://www.matrifocus.com/IMB05/images/fire-salamander-sm.jpg
                                >
                                > Melancholic type;
                                >
                                > The Melancholic earth dominated, nihilistic, Columbine depression,
                                > Nietzsche fixated, hooded rapper has a sharp wit. Often sees the
                                > bitter edges, the flaws, the inconsistencies and certainly
                                > gravitates and finds its deepest kindled light out of darkness. You
                                > could look at how Rembrandt took the darkness and found in it
                                golden
                                > hues...as highly interesting.
                                >
                                > The compression of darkness and the usual Adam's family values of
                                > tatoos, dark flesh piercings, pain, S&M, torture, the daughter in
                                > the film "BeetleJuice" dressed in black and seeing dead people
                                bring
                                > the soul into connection with the current cultural gesture of
                                > XXXXXtreme melancholic and enchained gnomes who must be sentenced,
                                > as the roots of trees, and mines are strip mined, and earth is
                                > carved up, the gnomes are sucked into a horrificaly depressing
                                > computerization of human intellectual forces.
                                >
                                > The Earth spirit gnome, ruled the biting wit of intellectual forces
                                > and now lurking in the mines and dark regions of the soul are
                                > Ahriman's horrific hordes. And sucked into the electro magnitic
                                > sphere, gnomes are compressed into Internet darkness where humans
                                > fail to see the depth and light that is in the intellect, the same
                                > as they refuse and fail to see the depths and ROOTS of the
                                universe,
                                > the soul and the Spirit as the roots of a great Tree of the I AM,
                                > Yggdrassil. Wagner and Tolkien felt the dark tug of the gnome
                                > community, wiped out and forced into elemental slave labor within
                                > the the electronic, hi-tech communications systems, inventions and
                                > military experimentation.
                                >
                                > Vast bacteria, watery, laser, and hi-tech atomic table forces are
                                > being whored, harnassed demonized in labs and forced into elemental
                                > labor and etheric torture to bring epidemics, annhilation by fire,
                                > radiation, and disrupting earthquakes, tidal waves and many of them
                                > now merely human generated for selfless political ends from the far
                                > west. Because the human sylph, nymph, salamander and gnome forces
                                in
                                > the healing processes of the human being are being trained
                                literally
                                > as Tolkien described how the elves became Orcs. But the joke is on
                                > humanity. For these beings are literally ripping into the cosmic
                                > human model and the safeguards of the human healing systems by labs
                                > that the American people are paying for so that the surface
                                > intellect can remain in its ahrimanized slumber. This was not the
                                > Agel of Light our children came to participate in, but the its
                                > horrific opposite and it is U, U who sit there and read these
                                things
                                > that have failed to IMAGINE clearly what is going on.
                                >
                                > This mighty potential and sacrifice of the melancholic gomes, where
                                > humans cannot think and they merely become the darkness, become
                                > nihilistic, become dangerous in their own stewing darkness, enjoy
                                > their selfish dangers, dark drugs and brooding faddishness...shames
                                > Hamlet and Hamlet is our own Consciousness Soul. Our Consciousness
                                > Soul does have a gesture and certainly the black suited Dr. Steiner
                                > and that sort of lecture fad, wouldn't have our usual melancholics
                                > and deep thinkers, now parading around in Hawaiian shirts now would
                                > they? Well they should play against type and certainly Steiner
                                would
                                > not be all tatooed with dark coal tints under his eyes for that
                                > vampire effect, if he walked into a room today. But Anthros still
                                > see it that way. Anthros hardly would trust an infusion of happy
                                > rollicking Michaelites pulling up in their Harley's to give
                                > conferences and talks. They have to be conservative, sober and
                                > unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings
                                > latent in the Anthro, because Anthros just want to gawk and stare
                                at
                                > the old b/w photos of Der Doctor, instead of revealing the bubbling
                                > life of the new Etheric Worlds. Eh?
                                >
                                > http://www.jazlink.com/jazlbums/England/HPIM0074.sized.jpg
                                >
                                > http://www.sculpturebyspirit.com/door.html
                                >
                              • opetha
                                Hello, Disfigurations in the Orient is the opposite of Transformations in the Occident , where would we be without ambiguity? We must face our devil
                                Message 15 of 30 , Oct 5, 2006
                                  Hello,

                                  "Disfigurations in the Orient" is the opposite of "Transformations in
                                  the Occident", where would we be without ambiguity? We must face our
                                  devil sometime.

                                  Tarot cards--that's why it appears "typical new-age", maybe a typical
                                  filter is the case. But what I say is 100% eternal law of the dhamma,
                                  so far as the unconscious as mulaprakriti is unchanging ideation from
                                  which any spiritual world, in any epoch, is built.

                                  Bless.

                                  Godot.












                                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Hello Bradford
                                  > >
                                  > > OK, I understand what you're saying if only you wouldn't go so
                                  far
                                  > > ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of
                                  > that
                                  > > psychological type.
                                  >
                                  > Yes, Bradford writes alot, just as you write alot. Actually, I
                                  > don't see much of a difference. Now, I try to write in brief
                                  > because it serves to catch the eye, and maybe gets a response,
                                  which
                                  > is what I look for. I said you wrote "hodgepodge" because you
                                  were
                                  > pulling out all stops to write 'new-age' dribble, which some
                                  > possibly could have found offensive. In fact, I found your initial
                                  > post offensive and arrogant. And that is why I didn't respond to
                                  > indications of Steinerian concepts from his "Foundations of
                                  > Esotericism" lectures from 1905.
                                  >
                                  > You are quite right in that Jung and Steiner represent a polarity;
                                  > just as Kant and Steiner represent a polarity from a philosophical
                                  > standpoint. This has all been gone over before, on that other
                                  > little ship called the s.s. minnow. Jung is to psychology what
                                  Kant
                                  > is to philosophy in terms of limits to knowledge and perception.
                                  > And Rudolf Steiner overcame these bounds for those that seek to
                                  > overcome such limits in order to go further in terms of knowledge
                                  > and being.
                                  >
                                  > Esotericism and its relationship to modern thought is what
                                  interests
                                  > me. Spiritual science exists in order to extend thinking and
                                  > knowledge into the causal realm that stands behind external
                                  > phenomena. But you have to take up the study in earnest, just as
                                  > you have taken up your study of Jungian principles according to a
                                  > collective unconsciousness that is quite attractive to people today
                                  > because it leaves the mysteries and enigmas alone; except to engage
                                  > in conservative speculation about what things mean in the greater
                                  > course of events.
                                  >
                                  > Thus, synchonicity and its phenomenal representation is a fact that
                                  > only spiritual science can truly penetrate into its causality as an
                                  > increasing experience of spiritual necessity. I didn't want to
                                  lose
                                  > that important point.
                                  >
                                  > Steve
                                  >
                                • holderlin66
                                  Godot wrote: A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use him as an
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Oct 5, 2006
                                    Godot wrote:

                                    "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school
                                    and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use
                                    him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                    psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                    leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                                    until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                    how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound your
                                    science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is this
                                    not so?"

                                    "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                    writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                                    forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                                    men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                    Things."

                                    Bradford comments;

                                    Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                                    Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal. But we
                                    can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical point
                                    means better than the current Jungians.

                                    John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age 33.
                                    Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the world
                                    over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the Declaration
                                    of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing Religious
                                    Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.

                                    María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                                    8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.

                                    1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES

                                    Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0

                                    (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)

                                    In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space of
                                    just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become one of
                                    the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                    finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with three
                                    friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                    philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                    labeled "Transcendentalism."

                                    The Human Life by George O'Neil

                                    " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                    George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of Biography.
                                    The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of seven-
                                    year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the archetype
                                    of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead particularly
                                    after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly. The
                                    book goes into detail about the need to understand the importance of
                                    a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                    karmic companions, moon nodes etc.

                                    In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The chart
                                    has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea, and
                                    karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived and I
                                    personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                                    myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                    unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.

                                    George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work and
                                    insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain even
                                    through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a Mercury
                                    Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."

                                    Bradford concludes;

                                    Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously we
                                    have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures with
                                    first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and the
                                    change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart; the
                                    astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                    personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                    heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                                    human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33 years
                                    of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to 1933
                                    when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is Ahriman
                                    who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.

                                    What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is exposed to
                                    all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It recrossed
                                    his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to what we
                                    have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful elemental
                                    intensity and GUILT.

                                    But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                    understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                    being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces that
                                    truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I AM,
                                    human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away from
                                    his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age, when
                                    Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                    twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of the
                                    two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                    prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math and
                                    interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world and
                                    Man.

                                    But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as possible
                                    the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                    consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                    Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate
                                    and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point.
                                    Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the Christ
                                    take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                                    thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away, looking
                                    down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully developed
                                    etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                                    function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and as
                                    fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra to
                                    hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts the
                                    amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that Zarathustra
                                    watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest prepared
                                    human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this loving,
                                    living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun Elohim
                                    Christ.

                                    It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that Zarathustra
                                    had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a clarified
                                    astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom ever
                                    condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                    someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a gift to
                                    something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine all
                                    the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                    insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched althought
                                    Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                    mysteries to us.

                                    Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                                    thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM live
                                    fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33. Take
                                    Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region of
                                    the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this I
                                    AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt the
                                    karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world over
                                    and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds, Goethe,
                                    Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the Christ
                                    event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic family
                                    with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic family!!
                                    Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                    viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                    Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                                    Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson with
                                    his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                    community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner titles
                                    his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative of
                                    Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?

                                    Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the science
                                    of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at age 30
                                    to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting confrontation
                                    with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                    structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                    Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say we
                                    could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list of
                                    insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding places
                                    in the bushes.

                                    This is all that you need to remember about the difference between
                                    Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                  • opetha
                                    Good day, THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH ! Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn t matter in the end, we all have our own opinions and beliefs.
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
                                      Good day,

                                      THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !

                                      Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end, we
                                      all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I would
                                      rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the 33
                                      and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed horoscope
                                      they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33, 34,
                                      or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.

                                      Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                                      saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto when
                                      he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect lasts a
                                      long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This system
                                      has
                                      never known to fail, and like your interpretations of synchronicity
                                      , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by

                                      (a) energy
                                      or (b) causality

                                      Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was not
                                      a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of the
                                      SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                                      tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the jambu
                                      tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                                      energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                                      quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the centre
                                      was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                                      types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                                      have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).

                                      Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying that
                                      the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth by
                                      a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from the
                                      bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                                      sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.

                                      "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                                      -Pythagoras

                                      Godot.
















                                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66" <holderlin66@...>
                                      wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Godot wrote:
                                      >
                                      > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school
                                      > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use
                                      > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                      > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                      > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                                      > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                      > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound your
                                      > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is this
                                      > not so?"
                                      >
                                      > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                      > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                                      > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                                      > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                      > Things."
                                      >
                                      > Bradford comments;
                                      >
                                      > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                                      > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal. But
                                      we
                                      > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                      point
                                      > means better than the current Jungians.
                                      >
                                      > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age 33.
                                      > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the world
                                      > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the Declaration
                                      > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing Religious
                                      > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                      >
                                      > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                                      > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                      >
                                      > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                      >
                                      > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                      >
                                      > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                      >
                                      > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space of
                                      > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become one
                                      of
                                      > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                      > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                      three
                                      > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                      > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                      > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                      >
                                      > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                      >
                                      > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                      > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of Biography.
                                      > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                      seven-
                                      > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the archetype
                                      > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                      particularly
                                      > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly. The
                                      > book goes into detail about the need to understand the importance
                                      of
                                      > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                      > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                      >
                                      > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The chart
                                      > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea, and
                                      > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived and I
                                      > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                                      > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                      > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                      >
                                      > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work and
                                      > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain even
                                      > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a Mercury
                                      > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."
                                      >
                                      > Bradford concludes;
                                      >
                                      > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously we
                                      > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                      with
                                      > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and the
                                      > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart; the
                                      > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                      > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                      > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                                      > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33 years
                                      > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                      1933
                                      > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is Ahriman
                                      > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                      >
                                      > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is exposed
                                      to
                                      > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                      recrossed
                                      > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to what
                                      we
                                      > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful elemental
                                      > intensity and GUILT.
                                      >
                                      > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                      > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                      > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces that
                                      > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I AM,
                                      > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away from
                                      > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age, when
                                      > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                      > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of the
                                      > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                      > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math
                                      and
                                      > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world and
                                      > Man.
                                      >
                                      > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as possible
                                      > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                      > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                      > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate
                                      > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point.
                                      > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the Christ
                                      > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                                      > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away, looking
                                      > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully developed
                                      > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                                      > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and as
                                      > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra to
                                      > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts
                                      the
                                      > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that Zarathustra
                                      > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest prepared
                                      > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this loving,
                                      > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun Elohim
                                      > Christ.
                                      >
                                      > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that Zarathustra
                                      > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a clarified
                                      > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom ever
                                      > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                      > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a gift
                                      to
                                      > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine
                                      all
                                      > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                      > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched althought
                                      > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                      > mysteries to us.
                                      >
                                      > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                                      > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM live
                                      > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33. Take
                                      > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region of
                                      > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this I
                                      > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt the
                                      > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world over
                                      > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds, Goethe,
                                      > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the Christ
                                      > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                      family
                                      > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                      family!!
                                      > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                      > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                      > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                                      > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                      with
                                      > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                      > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner titles
                                      > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative of
                                      > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                      >
                                      > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                      science
                                      > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at age
                                      30
                                      > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting confrontation
                                      > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                      > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                      > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say we
                                      > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list of
                                      > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding places
                                      > in the bushes.
                                      >
                                      > This is all that you need to remember about the difference between
                                      > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                      >
                                    • carol
                                      Dear Godot, Perhaps next time around you ll possess the great courage necessary to take on the `big picture . Please take note that your inner urge to
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
                                        Dear Godot,

                                        Perhaps next time around you'll possess the great courage necessary
                                        to take on the `big picture'. Please take note that your inner urge
                                        to directly wrestling with Anthroposophy has now
                                        figuratively `sprinkled your soul with a light drizzle'.

                                        May the heavens ray down upon you... in sympathy, Carol

                                        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Good day,
                                        >
                                        > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !
                                        >
                                        > Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end,
                                        we
                                        > all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I
                                        would
                                        > rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the
                                        33
                                        > and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed
                                        horoscope
                                        > they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33,
                                        34,
                                        > or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.
                                        >
                                        > Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                                        > saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto
                                        when
                                        > he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect
                                        lasts a
                                        > long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This
                                        system
                                        > has
                                        > never known to fail, and like your interpretations of synchronicity
                                        > , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by
                                        >
                                        > (a) energy
                                        > or (b) causality
                                        >
                                        > Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was
                                        not
                                        > a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of
                                        the
                                        > SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                                        > tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the
                                        jambu
                                        > tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                                        > energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                                        > quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the
                                        centre
                                        > was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                                        > types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                                        > have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).
                                        >
                                        > Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying
                                        that
                                        > the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth
                                        by
                                        > a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from
                                        the
                                        > bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                                        > sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.
                                        >
                                        > "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                                        > -Pythagoras
                                        >
                                        > Godot.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66" <holderlin66@>
                                        > wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Godot wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish
                                        school
                                        > > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will
                                        use
                                        > > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                        > > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                        > > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                                        > > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                        > > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound
                                        your
                                        > > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                                        this
                                        > > not so?"
                                        > >
                                        > > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                        > > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                                        > > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                                        > > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                        > > Things."
                                        > >
                                        > > Bradford comments;
                                        > >
                                        > > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                                        > > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal.
                                        But
                                        > we
                                        > > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                        > point
                                        > > means better than the current Jungians.
                                        > >
                                        > > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age
                                        33.
                                        > > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the
                                        world
                                        > > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                                        Declaration
                                        > > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing
                                        Religious
                                        > > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                        > >
                                        > > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                                        > > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                        > >
                                        > > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                        > >
                                        > > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                        > >
                                        > > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                        > >
                                        > > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space
                                        of
                                        > > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become
                                        one
                                        > of
                                        > > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                        > > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                        > three
                                        > > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                        > > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                        > > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                        > >
                                        > > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                        > >
                                        > > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                        > > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of
                                        Biography.
                                        > > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                        > seven-
                                        > > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the
                                        archetype
                                        > > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                        > particularly
                                        > > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                                        The
                                        > > book goes into detail about the need to understand the
                                        importance
                                        > of
                                        > > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                        > > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                        > >
                                        > > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                                        chart
                                        > > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea,
                                        and
                                        > > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived
                                        and I
                                        > > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                                        > > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                        > > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                        > >
                                        > > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work
                                        and
                                        > > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain
                                        even
                                        > > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a
                                        Mercury
                                        > > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."
                                        > >
                                        > > Bradford concludes;
                                        > >
                                        > > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously
                                        we
                                        > > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                        > with
                                        > > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and
                                        the
                                        > > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart;
                                        the
                                        > > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                        > > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                        > > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                                        > > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33
                                        years
                                        > > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                        > 1933
                                        > > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                                        Ahriman
                                        > > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                        > >
                                        > > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is
                                        exposed
                                        > to
                                        > > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                        > recrossed
                                        > > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to
                                        what
                                        > we
                                        > > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                                        elemental
                                        > > intensity and GUILT.
                                        > >
                                        > > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                        > > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                        > > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces
                                        that
                                        > > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I
                                        AM,
                                        > > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away
                                        from
                                        > > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                                        when
                                        > > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                        > > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of
                                        the
                                        > > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                        > > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math
                                        > and
                                        > > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world
                                        and
                                        > > Man.
                                        > >
                                        > > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as
                                        possible
                                        > > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                        > > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                        > > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                                        incubate
                                        > > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that
                                        point.
                                        > > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                                        Christ
                                        > > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                                        > > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away,
                                        looking
                                        > > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                                        developed
                                        > > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                                        > > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and
                                        as
                                        > > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra
                                        to
                                        > > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts
                                        > the
                                        > > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                                        Zarathustra
                                        > > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest
                                        prepared
                                        > > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this
                                        loving,
                                        > > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                                        Elohim
                                        > > Christ.
                                        > >
                                        > > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                                        Zarathustra
                                        > > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                                        clarified
                                        > > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom
                                        ever
                                        > > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                        > > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a
                                        gift
                                        > to
                                        > > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine
                                        > all
                                        > > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                        > > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched
                                        althought
                                        > > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                        > > mysteries to us.
                                        > >
                                        > > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                                        > > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                                        live
                                        > > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                                        Take
                                        > > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region
                                        of
                                        > > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this
                                        I
                                        > > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                                        the
                                        > > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world
                                        over
                                        > > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds,
                                        Goethe,
                                        > > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                                        Christ
                                        > > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                        > family
                                        > > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                        > family!!
                                        > > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                        > > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                        > > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                                        > > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                        > with
                                        > > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                        > > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                                        titles
                                        > > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative
                                        of
                                        > > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                        > >
                                        > > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                        > science
                                        > > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at
                                        age
                                        > 30
                                        > > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting
                                        confrontation
                                        > > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                        > > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                        > > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say
                                        we
                                        > > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list
                                        of
                                        > > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                                        places
                                        > > in the bushes.
                                        > >
                                        > > This is all that you need to remember about the difference
                                        between
                                        > > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • opetha
                                        Dear Godot, Perhaps next time around you ll possess the great courage necessary to take on the `big picture . Please take note that your inner urge to
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
                                          "Dear Godot,

                                          Perhaps next time around you'll possess the great courage necessary
                                          to take on the `big picture'. Please take note that your inner urge
                                          to directly wrestling with Anthroposophy has now
                                          figuratively `sprinkled your soul with a light drizzle'. >
                                          May the heavens ray down upon you... in sympathy, Carol"

                                          The jehovah's witnesses are saying the same thing to you. This is an
                                          anthroposophy site , if it was a Jung site you'd get the same
                                          sectarian onanism from them. Human beings are not free of poison,
                                          carol, this includes you.

                                          The 'big picture' includes the collective unconscious which you think
                                          is against anthroposophy. No spirit can operate without a Karmic
                                          symbol in the unconscious, all spirits, phantom worlds and "eigth
                                          spheres" all have a reflection in the unconscious, they cannot be
                                          created without ideation.

                                          A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless
                                          that person's unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows
                                          NOTHING about the unconscious and thinks that he is "divining"
                                          himself psychically that he can kill
                                          or heal someone. If he does heal, the spirit thinks that he did it by
                                          his own effort. But the unconscious symbols, or archetypes, as we can
                                          see by progression astrology is shown by that dead or healed
                                          persons's horoscope; the aspects produced are synchronized to the
                                          causel éffect. So, you see, these two worlds of unconscious and
                                          conscious spirit are paralell. But because you have week intuition
                                          you cannot see this, so you make up a lot of abstract rules to
                                          entertain consciousness.
                                          Totality--"christ etheric"---is only acheived through union of the
                                          opposites. It is the resting of all spirit.

                                          You have no balance and are threatened by this testament.

                                          DE FABIS ABSTINUTO.
                                          Godot











                                          > >
                                          > > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !
                                          > >
                                          > > Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end,
                                          > we
                                          > > all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I
                                          > would
                                          > > rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the
                                          > 33
                                          > > and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed
                                          > horoscope
                                          > > they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33,
                                          > 34,
                                          > > or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.
                                          > >
                                          > > Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                                          > > saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto
                                          > when
                                          > > he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect
                                          > lasts a
                                          > > long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This
                                          > system
                                          > > has
                                          > > never known to fail, and like your interpretations of
                                          synchronicity
                                          > > , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by
                                          > >
                                          > > (a) energy
                                          > > or (b) causality
                                          > >
                                          > > Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was
                                          > not
                                          > > a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of
                                          > the
                                          > > SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                                          > > tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the
                                          > jambu
                                          > > tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                                          > > energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                                          > > quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the
                                          > centre
                                          > > was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                                          > > types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                                          > > have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).
                                          > >
                                          > > Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying
                                          > that
                                          > > the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth
                                          > by
                                          > > a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from
                                          > the
                                          > > bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                                          > > sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.
                                          > >
                                          > > "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                                          > > -Pythagoras
                                          > >
                                          > > Godot.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                          <holderlin66@>
                                          > > wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Godot wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish
                                          > school
                                          > > > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will
                                          > use
                                          > > > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                          > > > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                          > > > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the
                                          stars
                                          > > > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                          > > > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound
                                          > your
                                          > > > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                                          > this
                                          > > > not so?"
                                          > > >
                                          > > > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                          > > > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of
                                          the
                                          > > > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age
                                          for
                                          > > > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                          > > > Things."
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Bradford comments;
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human
                                          being.
                                          > > > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal.
                                          > But
                                          > > we
                                          > > > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                          > > point
                                          > > > means better than the current Jungians.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age
                                          > 33.
                                          > > > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the
                                          > world
                                          > > > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                                          > Declaration
                                          > > > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing
                                          > Religious
                                          > > > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33,
                                          at
                                          > > > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                          > > >
                                          > > > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                          > > >
                                          > > > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space
                                          > of
                                          > > > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become
                                          > one
                                          > > of
                                          > > > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                          > > > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                          > > three
                                          > > > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                          > > > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                          > > > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                          > > >
                                          > > > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                          > > >
                                          > > > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                          > > > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of
                                          > Biography.
                                          > > > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                          > > seven-
                                          > > > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the
                                          > archetype
                                          > > > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                          > > particularly
                                          > > > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                                          > The
                                          > > > book goes into detail about the need to understand the
                                          > importance
                                          > > of
                                          > > > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                          > > > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                                          > chart
                                          > > > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea,
                                          > and
                                          > > > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived
                                          > and I
                                          > > > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I
                                          find
                                          > > > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                          > > > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work
                                          > and
                                          > > > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain
                                          > even
                                          > > > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a
                                          > Mercury
                                          > > > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real
                                          gem."
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Bradford concludes;
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science.
                                          Previously
                                          > we
                                          > > > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                          > > with
                                          > > > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and
                                          > the
                                          > > > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart;
                                          > the
                                          > > > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                          > > > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                          > > > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find
                                          the
                                          > > > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33
                                          > years
                                          > > > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                          > > 1933
                                          > > > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                                          > Ahriman
                                          > > > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is
                                          > exposed
                                          > > to
                                          > > > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                          > > recrossed
                                          > > > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to
                                          > what
                                          > > we
                                          > > > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                                          > elemental
                                          > > > intensity and GUILT.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                          > > > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                          > > > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces
                                          > that
                                          > > > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I
                                          > AM,
                                          > > > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away
                                          > from
                                          > > > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                                          > when
                                          > > > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                          > > > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of
                                          > the
                                          > > > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                          > > > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic
                                          math
                                          > > and
                                          > > > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world
                                          > and
                                          > > > Man.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as
                                          > possible
                                          > > > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                          > > > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                          > > > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                                          > incubate
                                          > > > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that
                                          > point.
                                          > > > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                                          > Christ
                                          > > > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language,
                                          brain,
                                          > > > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away,
                                          > looking
                                          > > > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                                          > developed
                                          > > > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot,
                                          fully
                                          > > > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and
                                          > as
                                          > > > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra
                                          > to
                                          > > > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's
                                          depicts
                                          > > the
                                          > > > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                                          > Zarathustra
                                          > > > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest
                                          > prepared
                                          > > > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this
                                          > loving,
                                          > > > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                                          > Elohim
                                          > > > Christ.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                                          > Zarathustra
                                          > > > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                                          > clarified
                                          > > > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom
                                          > ever
                                          > > > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                          > > > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a
                                          > gift
                                          > > to
                                          > > > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't
                                          examine
                                          > > all
                                          > > > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                          > > > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched
                                          > althought
                                          > > > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                          > > > mysteries to us.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting
                                          each
                                          > > > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                                          > live
                                          > > > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                                          > Take
                                          > > > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region
                                          > of
                                          > > > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought
                                          this
                                          > I
                                          > > > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                                          > the
                                          > > > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world
                                          > over
                                          > > > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds,
                                          > Goethe,
                                          > > > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                                          > Christ
                                          > > > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                          > > family
                                          > > > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                          > > family!!
                                          > > > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                          > > > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                          > > > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger
                                          or
                                          > > > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                          > > with
                                          > > > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                          > > > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                                          > titles
                                          > > > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative
                                          > of
                                          > > > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                          > > science
                                          > > > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at
                                          > age
                                          > > 30
                                          > > > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting
                                          > confrontation
                                          > > > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                          > > > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                          > > > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd
                                          say
                                          > we
                                          > > > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list
                                          > of
                                          > > > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                                          > places
                                          > > > in the bushes.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > This is all that you need to remember about the difference
                                          > between
                                          > > > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • holderlin66
                                          opetha wrote: A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless that person s unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows NOTHING
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
                                            opetha wrote:

                                            "A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless
                                            that person's unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows
                                            NOTHING about the unconscious and thinks that he is "divining"
                                            himself psychically that he can kill
                                            or heal someone. If he does heal, the spirit thinks that he did it by
                                            his own effort. But the unconscious symbols, or archetypes, as we can
                                            see by progression astrology is shown by that dead or healed
                                            persons's horoscope; the aspects produced are synchronized to the
                                            causel éffect. So, you see, these two worlds of unconscious and
                                            conscious spirit are paralell."

                                            Bradford comments;

                                            Truly, truly, not that it matters, by Jungianism is a very good
                                            basis for beginners to grasp Anthroposophy. Most Anthro's have not
                                            progressed further than vague Jungianism, but Jungianism is a good
                                            enough approach to start off with.

                                            But to the issue, Godot, the issue of healing. Now there is again an
                                            area of actual healing, as in the so called miracles, and right
                                            away, forget about whatever you have assumed about the miracles in
                                            the past. Healing, certainly healers and healing is a wonderful
                                            theory and vaguely we are all growing into healers. But Healers that
                                            are given the task of producing from our core, an entirely new
                                            nature with adjustments and elemental world healings, and karmic
                                            balancers.

                                            But the theory of healers has to have itself rooted in something.
                                            That something is known as the progressive science miracles of
                                            Christ. That is that Anthro Science and Resurrection Science can
                                            walk you through the slow unfolding and serious deepening, step by
                                            step as the Christ penetrated...the Jesus model built by Zarathustra.

                                            Step by step, the vast Being of the Christ, using the developing
                                            cognition of the Christ and Zarathustra's highly developed faculties
                                            and Buddha's immense cosmic compassion, started out with what,
                                            changing water into wine. But from each step by step, stage by stage
                                            deepening of what Christ is, the I AM of all I AM's, as our I AM and
                                            higher being penetrates into our being, firstly Christ taps the deep
                                            forces of wine, blood and the elemental forces of the EArth. Christ
                                            changes water into wine. Whole new elemental forces in the nymphs
                                            and undines spring to life in clay jars.

                                            Now what happens stage by stage are not miracles but the unfolding
                                            in depth capacity and science of the forces of Karma cognition,
                                            healing blind people, or blood issues, or the Youth of Nain, as a
                                            world historical karmic adjustment that was left over from THE SON
                                            OF THE WIDOW an Isis and Egyptian karmic problem that left a youth
                                            in a coma, was read and adjusted by Christ.

                                            We have brought on this list, on this list only recently, revealing
                                            these miracles under the heading of miracles and we walked it
                                            through as best we could. That is that Christ was the active Star
                                            Genius, the active adjustor. Christ on Earth was an active vortex of
                                            living Star force that usually exists outside of humanity. Christ
                                            brought the living Stars for a short time, exactly on Earth.
                                            Steiner, better than Bill Gates, knew the codes and developments of
                                            I AM's and Christ could and had the power in the vortex that was
                                            established around him.... a vast vortex of forces that included the
                                            TWELVE, Christ was the walking reality of the immediate stars. These
                                            powers are all latent in the puny i am or id and how we raise
                                            ourselves to our higher beings, and eventually bring the Not I but
                                            Christ I AM into us, is left for our unfolding future.

                                            But my point is not that they were healing and miracles and not that
                                            human beings, Jungians and biodynamics farmers, Waldorf educators,
                                            and Anthro trained students aren't healers, we all are. But my point
                                            was that an entirely new nature ---- This should be grasped and I
                                            can't blame anyone, including Anthros for not yet grasping this, but
                                            the fact is that a New Nature force rose up and will rise up not
                                            from miracles but from the penetrating and clarified science of the
                                            I AM going deeper and deeper into the I AM, down to the core of
                                            matter. And I can tell you that penetrating the core of matter as
                                            Love and Light is part of the Heisenberg problem. A problem that
                                            Heisenberg and Steiner agreed upon. As the I AM is penetrated and we
                                            become more and more conscious, the exactness of the science, the
                                            etheric forces needed, the star forces needed, all become clear to
                                            the force that had penetrated the Jesus model, once the Cosmic I AM
                                            took root.

                                            The science of healing, certainly has a beginning with a Jungian
                                            frame of reference and Anthroposophy picks up that Jungian frame of
                                            reference and more and more consolidates what is termed,
                                            UNCONSCIOUS, as nothing that cannot be explored by the Spiritual
                                            Scientist. Naturally the idea that Steiner was unconscious of the
                                            nature forces or star forces and medical forces as he plunged into
                                            his "Agricultural Course" is absurd. Naturally to imagine that the
                                            hit or miss version of Edgar Casey was on par with the Conscious
                                            Initiate Science of Steiner, is sweet. But to penetrate the
                                            properties of the stars, and direct them down to the soil, or
                                            through the organism, or into the model of higher and general
                                            education, means that the unconscious model that Jungians declare as
                                            part of the unexplored area of their being....that may be true for
                                            us, but it was less and less true for both Zarathustra, Buddha and
                                            Steiner. Mapping the Unconscious with clarity is also not getting
                                            trapped in the idea of vague nonsense.

                                            Myths, archetypes, you give it to me, and I'll spit it right back in
                                            the direction that reveals, not the unconscious but the maps of the
                                            unconscious. When we say maps, we are talking Dante and his nine
                                            layers deep and nine layers upwards. When we are talking maps, we
                                            are talking about the same Nine layers of the Norse Yggdrasill. When
                                            we are talking maps of the unconscious we are talking about the same
                                            Nine layers that were known to the Egyptians....if you want me to
                                            prove it... suffice it to say, KA...etc... etc... What you insist on
                                            the unconscious was the Venus steps of the Aztec and Mayan altars,
                                            where the nine months of gestation and the snake shadow that runs
                                            down the steps and even the number of steps up the Venus altar where
                                            human sacrifice was made, were the exact number of steps as the
                                            number of days it took Venus....And then the Aztec's went down into
                                            the nine worlds of the underworld. These maps were not meant to be
                                            relegated as unconscious.

                                            Now Spiritual Science does not stand on the unconscious, it stands
                                            for the progressive unfolding of deeper and deeper layers of
                                            conscious penetration. That means that Nine Hierarchies, say, and
                                            Nine layers of the inner Earth and Nine fields of soul development
                                            in the human being are all part of the accurate, science of the maps
                                            of human cognition and the worlds around us.

                                            The fact that the stars play a part has also been brought up here as
                                            the 12 pairs of Cranial nerves that are the literal, pin-prick and
                                            compass that forms the human brain, and gives each individual a time
                                            stamp and a specific compass point, a karmic talent and capcity POV
                                            that is unique to the birth of each human being. This brain sheath
                                            and skull as well as the Dodecahedron has been generously explored
                                            here. So indeed Star movements and how the TWELVE operated around
                                            the Christ as a stabalizing field for the immense Elohim, Christ, in
                                            a warm field of Olive Trees and in the super warmed blood of the
                                            Hebrew people with their specific Iron forces... All this was to
                                            root the immense Sun Being and anchor it into Jesus.

                                            Then, to top it all off, the entire cellular structure glows with
                                            such a powerful light at the Transfiguration that the entire
                                            mysteries of matter, down to the very core of the bones, is infused
                                            and penetrated with a cosmic light. I can only thank-you profusely
                                            for offering your wonderful Jungian curiosity to the stable
                                            foundations of Spiritual Science. Because Anthro Jungians, which
                                            there are many of us, also need to get with the program that this is
                                            not the vague unconscious we are dealing with.
                                          • organicethics@sympatico.ca
                                            Interesting, I think clarification is being called upon. Here’s one small example: The big picture includes the collective unconscious (the Akasha) which
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
                                              Interesting, I think clarification is being called upon. Here’s one small example:

                                              The 'big picture' includes the collective unconscious (the Akasha) which you think
                                              is against anthroposophy (your reflection). No spirit (individual soul) can operate without a Karmic symbol (imprint/spiritual configuration animated by spiritual beings) in the unconscious, all spirits, phantom worlds and "eigth spheres" all have a reflection (living reality in the occult world) in the unconscious, they cannot be created without ideation (the participation of the thinking soul/spirit).

                                              Godot, Theosophy gets you deep with the typical disorganization. Anthroposophy offers the opportunity for Occult experience with the safeguards against getting ‘muddled’.

                                              Godot, be my guest, go do your thing, it’s your destiny, it’s you who ultimately answers for your actions and choices.

                                              But rest assured, that if you send ME psychic ‘threats’, you’ll get sunken…!

                                              Have a nice evening Godot, and be nice to people, Carol.

                                              >
                                              > From: "opetha" <opetha@...>
                                              > Date: 2006/10/06 Fri PM 02:41:21 EST
                                              > To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: Amoeba contra Manu
                                              >
                                              > "Dear Godot,
                                              >
                                              > Perhaps next time around you'll possess the great courage necessary
                                              > to take on the `big picture'. Please take note that your inner urge
                                              > to directly wrestling with Anthroposophy has now
                                              > figuratively `sprinkled your soul with a light drizzle'. >
                                              > May the heavens ray down upon you... in sympathy, Carol"
                                              >
                                              > The jehovah's witnesses are saying the same thing to you. This is an
                                              > anthroposophy site , if it was a Jung site you'd get the same
                                              > sectarian onanism from them. Human beings are not free of poison,
                                              > carol, this includes you.
                                              >
                                              > The 'big picture' includes the collective unconscious which you think
                                              > is against anthroposophy. No spirit can operate without a Karmic
                                              > symbol in the unconscious, all spirits, phantom worlds and "eigth
                                              > spheres" all have a reflection in the unconscious, they cannot be
                                              > created without ideation.
                                              >
                                              > A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless
                                              > that person's unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows
                                              > NOTHING about the unconscious and thinks that he is "divining"
                                              > himself psychically that he can kill
                                              > or heal someone. If he does heal, the spirit thinks that he did it by
                                              > his own effort. But the unconscious symbols, or archetypes, as we can
                                              > see by progression astrology is shown by that dead or healed
                                              > persons's horoscope; the aspects produced are synchronized to the
                                              > causel éffect. So, you see, these two worlds of unconscious and
                                              > conscious spirit are paralell. But because you have week intuition
                                              > you cannot see this, so you make up a lot of abstract rules to
                                              > entertain consciousness.
                                              > Totality--"christ etheric"---is only acheived through union of the
                                              > opposites. It is the resting of all spirit.
                                              >
                                              > You have no balance and are threatened by this testament.
                                              >
                                              > DE FABIS ABSTINUTO.
                                              > Godot
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end,
                                              > > we
                                              > > > all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I
                                              > > would
                                              > > > rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the
                                              > > 33
                                              > > > and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed
                                              > > horoscope
                                              > > > they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33,
                                              > > 34,
                                              > > > or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                                              > > > saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto
                                              > > when
                                              > > > he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect
                                              > > lasts a
                                              > > > long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This
                                              > > system
                                              > > > has
                                              > > > never known to fail, and like your interpretations of
                                              > synchronicity
                                              > > > , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by
                                              > > >
                                              > > > (a) energy
                                              > > > or (b) causality
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was
                                              > > not
                                              > > > a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of
                                              > > the
                                              > > > SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                                              > > > tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the
                                              > > jambu
                                              > > > tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                                              > > > energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                                              > > > quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the
                                              > > centre
                                              > > > was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                                              > > > types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                                              > > > have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying
                                              > > that
                                              > > > the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth
                                              > > by
                                              > > > a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from
                                              > > the
                                              > > > bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                                              > > > sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                                              > > > -Pythagoras
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Godot.
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                              > <holderlin66@>
                                              > > > wrote:
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Godot wrote:
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish
                                              > > school
                                              > > > > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will
                                              > > use
                                              > > > > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                              > > > > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                              > > > > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the
                                              > stars
                                              > > > > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                              > > > > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound
                                              > > your
                                              > > > > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                                              > > this
                                              > > > > not so?"
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                              > > > > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of
                                              > the
                                              > > > > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age
                                              > for
                                              > > > > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                              > > > > Things."
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Bradford comments;
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human
                                              > being.
                                              > > > > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal.
                                              > > But
                                              > > > we
                                              > > > > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                              > > > point
                                              > > > > means better than the current Jungians.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age
                                              > > 33.
                                              > > > > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the
                                              > > world
                                              > > > > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                                              > > Declaration
                                              > > > > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing
                                              > > Religious
                                              > > > > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33,
                                              > at
                                              > > > > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space
                                              > > of
                                              > > > > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become
                                              > > one
                                              > > > of
                                              > > > > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                              > > > > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                              > > > three
                                              > > > > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                              > > > > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                              > > > > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                              > > > > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of
                                              > > Biography.
                                              > > > > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                              > > > seven-
                                              > > > > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the
                                              > > archetype
                                              > > > > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                              > > > particularly
                                              > > > > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                                              > > The
                                              > > > > book goes into detail about the need to understand the
                                              > > importance
                                              > > > of
                                              > > > > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                              > > > > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                                              > > chart
                                              > > > > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea,
                                              > > and
                                              > > > > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived
                                              > > and I
                                              > > > > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I
                                              > find
                                              > > > > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                              > > > > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work
                                              > > and
                                              > > > > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain
                                              > > even
                                              > > > > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a
                                              > > Mercury
                                              > > > > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real
                                              > gem."
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Bradford concludes;
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science.
                                              > Previously
                                              > > we
                                              > > > > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                              > > > with
                                              > > > > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and
                                              > > the
                                              > > > > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart;
                                              > > the
                                              > > > > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                              > > > > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                              > > > > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find
                                              > the
                                              > > > > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33
                                              > > years
                                              > > > > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                              > > > 1933
                                              > > > > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                                              > > Ahriman
                                              > > > > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is
                                              > > exposed
                                              > > > to
                                              > > > > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                              > > > recrossed
                                              > > > > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to
                                              > > what
                                              > > > we
                                              > > > > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                                              > > elemental
                                              > > > > intensity and GUILT.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                              > > > > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                              > > > > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces
                                              > > that
                                              > > > > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I
                                              > > AM,
                                              > > > > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away
                                              > > from
                                              > > > > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                                              > > when
                                              > > > > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                              > > > > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of
                                              > > the
                                              > > > > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                              > > > > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic
                                              > math
                                              > > > and
                                              > > > > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world
                                              > > and
                                              > > > > Man.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as
                                              > > possible
                                              > > > > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                              > > > > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                              > > > > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                                              > > incubate
                                              > > > > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that
                                              > > point.
                                              > > > > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                                              > > Christ
                                              > > > > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language,
                                              > brain,
                                              > > > > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away,
                                              > > looking
                                              > > > > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                                              > > developed
                                              > > > > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot,
                                              > fully
                                              > > > > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and
                                              > > as
                                              > > > > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra
                                              > > to
                                              > > > > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's
                                              > depicts
                                              > > > the
                                              > > > > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                                              > > Zarathustra
                                              > > > > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest
                                              > > prepared
                                              > > > > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this
                                              > > loving,
                                              > > > > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                                              > > Elohim
                                              > > > > Christ.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                                              > > Zarathustra
                                              > > > > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                                              > > clarified
                                              > > > > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom
                                              > > ever
                                              > > > > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                              > > > > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a
                                              > > gift
                                              > > > to
                                              > > > > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't
                                              > examine
                                              > > > all
                                              > > > > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                              > > > > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched
                                              > > althought
                                              > > > > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                              > > > > mysteries to us.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting
                                              > each
                                              > > > > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                                              > > live
                                              > > > > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                                              > > Take
                                              > > > > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region
                                              > > of
                                              > > > > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought
                                              > this
                                              > > I
                                              > > > > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                                              > > the
                                              > > > > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world
                                              > > over
                                              > > > > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds,
                                              > > Goethe,
                                              > > > > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                                              > > Christ
                                              > > > > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                              > > > family
                                              > > > > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                              > > > family!!
                                              > > > > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                              > > > > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                              > > > > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger
                                              > or
                                              > > > > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                              > > > with
                                              > > > > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                              > > > > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                                              > > titles
                                              > > > > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative
                                              > > of
                                              > > > > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                              > > > science
                                              > > > > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at
                                              > > age
                                              > > > 30
                                              > > > > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting
                                              > > confrontation
                                              > > > > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                              > > > > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                              > > > > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd
                                              > say
                                              > > we
                                              > > > > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list
                                              > > of
                                              > > > > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                                              > > places
                                              > > > > in the bushes.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > This is all that you need to remember about the difference
                                              > > between
                                              > > > > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                            • opetha
                                              Hello, OK, organicethics, but akash = unconcsious is a major blunder of childish proportions. You are embarressing. You say: But rest assured, that if you
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Oct 7, 2006
                                                Hello,

                                                OK, organicethics, but akash = unconcsious is a major blunder of
                                                childish proportions. You are embarressing.

                                                You say:

                                                "But rest assured, that if you send ME psychic `threats', you'll get
                                                sunken…!"

                                                You have a major ego problem as well. Capital "ME"? You have sunk
                                                yourself with this already. You will not attain to the things you speak
                                                and read of if you think in terms of childish ego squabbles.

                                                But look forward to something "red". . . . . . . . .(?)

                                                temhamitnA.
                                              • carol
                                                Peace; man! ... get ... speak
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Oct 9, 2006
                                                  Peace; man!

                                                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Hello,
                                                  >
                                                  > OK, organicethics, but akash = unconcsious is a major blunder of
                                                  > childish proportions. You are embarressing.
                                                  >
                                                  > You say:
                                                  >
                                                  > "But rest assured, that if you send ME psychic `threats', you'll
                                                  get
                                                  > sunken…!"
                                                  >
                                                  > You have a major ego problem as well. Capital "ME"? You have sunk
                                                  > yourself with this already. You will not attain to the things you
                                                  speak
                                                  > and read of if you think in terms of childish ego squabbles.
                                                  >
                                                  > But look forward to something "red". . . . . . . . .(?)
                                                  >
                                                  > temhamitnA.
                                                  >
                                                • carol
                                                  Bradford wrote: `Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point Though I
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Oct 10, 2006
                                                    Bradford wrote:

                                                    `Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate
                                                    and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point'


                                                    Though I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having
                                                    embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral' beauty in
                                                    my 32th year, (which incidentally has me still marveling), it's
                                                    worth noting that I know that at that time, I wasn't ripe to absorb
                                                    the `living' meaning of the statement concerning Zarathustra and
                                                    Christ.

                                                    (Of course, Z's soul/spirit's participation in the mystery was quite
                                                    THE exception)

                                                    For this, I was only really able to incorporate into my conscious
                                                    experience, in a living way, without hesitation, only recently, just
                                                    past my mid forties.

                                                    Would YOU say that this `mature' experience points towards the
                                                    reasons why Steiner insisted on individuals waiting until their
                                                    forties before assuming an `authoritative' voice vis ä vis
                                                    spiritual science?

                                                    As opposed to creating (deciphering) theories/art forms from
                                                    within `the lively experience of youth'.

                                                    Here are two distinct life stages which are spaced out and differ in
                                                    caracter: exceptional creative inspiration within (the fountain of)
                                                    youth and unwavering conscious soul experience (through having
                                                    processed enough complex `life' experiences and also from possessing
                                                    an intuitive experience of mortality)

                                                    Would you like to elaborate on these ideas? Carol.

                                                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                                    <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Godot wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school
                                                    > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use
                                                    > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                                    > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                                    > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                                                    > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                                    > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound your
                                                    > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                                                    this
                                                    > not so?"
                                                    >
                                                    > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                                    > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                                                    > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                                                    > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                                    > Things."
                                                    >
                                                    > Bradford comments;
                                                    >
                                                    > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                                                    > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal. But
                                                    we
                                                    > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                                    point
                                                    > means better than the current Jungians.
                                                    >
                                                    > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age 33.
                                                    > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the world
                                                    > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                                                    Declaration
                                                    > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing Religious
                                                    > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                                    >
                                                    > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                                                    > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                                    >
                                                    > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                                    >
                                                    > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                                    >
                                                    > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                                    >
                                                    > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space of
                                                    > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become one
                                                    of
                                                    > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                                    > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                                    three
                                                    > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                                    > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                                    > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                                    >
                                                    > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                                    >
                                                    > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                                    > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of Biography.
                                                    > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                                    seven-
                                                    > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the archetype
                                                    > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                                    particularly
                                                    > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                                                    The
                                                    > book goes into detail about the need to understand the importance
                                                    of
                                                    > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                                    > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                                    >
                                                    > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                                                    chart
                                                    > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea, and
                                                    > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived and
                                                    I
                                                    > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                                                    > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                                    > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                                    >
                                                    > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work and
                                                    > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain even
                                                    > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a Mercury
                                                    > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."
                                                    >
                                                    > Bradford concludes;
                                                    >
                                                    > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously
                                                    we
                                                    > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                                    with
                                                    > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and the
                                                    > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart; the
                                                    > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                                    > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                                    > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                                                    > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33 years
                                                    > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                                    1933
                                                    > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                                                    Ahriman
                                                    > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                                    >
                                                    > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is exposed
                                                    to
                                                    > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                                    recrossed
                                                    > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to what
                                                    we
                                                    > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                                                    elemental
                                                    > intensity and GUILT.
                                                    >
                                                    > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                                    > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                                    > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces that
                                                    > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I AM,
                                                    > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away from
                                                    > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                                                    when
                                                    > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                                    > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of the
                                                    > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                                    > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math
                                                    and
                                                    > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world and
                                                    > Man.
                                                    >
                                                    > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as possible
                                                    > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                                    > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                                    > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                                                    incubate
                                                    > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point.
                                                    > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                                                    Christ
                                                    > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                                                    > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away, looking
                                                    > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                                                    developed
                                                    > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                                                    > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and as
                                                    > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra to
                                                    > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts
                                                    the
                                                    > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                                                    Zarathustra
                                                    > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest prepared
                                                    > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this loving,
                                                    > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                                                    Elohim
                                                    > Christ.
                                                    >
                                                    > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                                                    Zarathustra
                                                    > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                                                    clarified
                                                    > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom ever
                                                    > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                                    > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a gift
                                                    to
                                                    > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine
                                                    all
                                                    > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                                    > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched althought
                                                    > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                                    > mysteries to us.
                                                    >
                                                    > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                                                    > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                                                    live
                                                    > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                                                    Take
                                                    > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region of
                                                    > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this I
                                                    > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                                                    the
                                                    > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world over
                                                    > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds, Goethe,
                                                    > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                                                    Christ
                                                    > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                                    family
                                                    > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                                    family!!
                                                    > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                                    > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                                    > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                                                    > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                                    with
                                                    > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                                    > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                                                    titles
                                                    > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative of
                                                    > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                                    >
                                                    > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                                    science
                                                    > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at age
                                                    30
                                                    > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting confrontation
                                                    > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                                    > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                                    > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say
                                                    we
                                                    > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list of
                                                    > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                                                    places
                                                    > in the bushes.
                                                    >
                                                    > This is all that you need to remember about the difference between
                                                    > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                                    >
                                                  • holderlin66
                                                    carol wrote: ...I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral beauty in my 32th year, (which
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Oct 15, 2006
                                                      carol wrote:

                                                      "...I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having
                                                      embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral' beauty in
                                                      my 32th year, (which incidentally has me still marveling), it's
                                                      worth noting that I know that at that time, I wasn't ripe to absorb
                                                      the `living' meaning of the statement concerning Zarathustra and
                                                      Christ.

                                                      (Of course, Z's soul/spirit's participation in the mystery was quite
                                                      THE exception)

                                                      For this, I was only really able to incorporate into my conscious
                                                      experience, in a living way, without hesitation, only recently, just
                                                      past my mid forties.

                                                      Would YOU say that this `mature' experience points towards the
                                                      reasons why Steiner insisted on individuals waiting until their
                                                      forties before assuming an `authoritative' voice vis ä vis
                                                      spiritual science?

                                                      As opposed to creating (deciphering) theories/art forms from
                                                      within `the lively experience of youth'.

                                                      Here are two distinct life stages which are spaced out and differ in
                                                      caracter: exceptional creative inspiration within (the fountain of)
                                                      youth and unwavering conscious soul experience (through having
                                                      processed enough complex `life' experiences and also from possessing
                                                      an intuitive experience of mortality)

                                                      Would you like to elaborate on these ideas? Carol."

                                                      Bradford comments;

                                                      Carol it is great to hear your spiritual voice. (As thought is
                                                      spiritual activity). For those of us who are not Zarathustra, we can
                                                      dig up example after biographical example of how our unprepared, and
                                                      semi-karmically prepared I AM's start facing our instincts at the 30
                                                      to the 35 mark. Distinctly we can fetch Bill Gates and we can note
                                                      how his attention, mission, destiny, certainly centered on the
                                                      objectification of the Global Intelligence that could well up, gush
                                                      upwards from the deep gorge of untapped human vision, in
                                                      connectedness everywhere. Thus all those particpating, if they have
                                                      the means, would be faced with a storm of hidden information, vast
                                                      fingertip libraries of humanity, Porn, and instincts, raw thought,
                                                      Orwellian thought, Luciferically watered down or poison pill laced
                                                      thought. Ahrimanic data, numbers, cold cruel pictures of human
                                                      beastliness, the worst and most hideous beastliness in all of the
                                                      beastly kingdoms.

                                                      With this information it is not hard to see with senstive artistic
                                                      imagination and intuition how hardened, rigidified and icy
                                                      standpoints congeal to Horns. Ten horns or horned beasts that
                                                      represent rigidified, forming slowly, Corporate Political systems
                                                      that calcify into overall materialistic mind sets, that sit
                                                      comfortably in tens of millions.

                                                      When you add nano technology and how ahrimanic forces which have the
                                                      intent to rip fragments of cloned humanity out of the karmic star
                                                      fabric, such a fantasy as depicted in films like the "The
                                                      Island" "Gattica" "Blade Runner" ...where humans are grown for
                                                      replacement and organ parts, for Gold and Immortality and serve the
                                                      calcification of the disease avarice, the entire Corporate anti-
                                                      Sophia realm of The Whore of Babylon, isn't even hard to picture it
                                                      developing out of human instincts the way John saw it.

                                                      John did the best he could to describe it, rising up out of the
                                                      intinctual morass of humanity, as a great congealing Anti-Human
                                                      factoring.John's Whore of Babylon was the Shadow on Earth of bright
                                                      Sophia Star wisdom fallen into human snares. Steiner updated and
                                                      filled in some of the blanks that John left as theory and Steiner
                                                      brought us into current Michael Speak which is different than
                                                      Orwell's NEWSPEAK. At the Dawn of the Age of Light we were given
                                                      updates and clarifications of all that was semi clouded and confused
                                                      coming from human I AM events.

                                                      "Newspeak was the official language of Oceania and had been devised
                                                      to meet the ideological needs of Ingsoc, or English Socialism. In
                                                      the year 1984 there was not as yet anyone who used Newspeak as his
                                                      sole means of communication, either in speech or writing. The
                                                      leading articles in The Times were written in it, but could only be
                                                      carried out by a specialist. It was expected that Newspeak would
                                                      have finally superseded Oldspeak (or Standard English) by about the
                                                      year 2050"

                                                      Seattle Times:

                                                      "The use of powerful and well-placed words and images worked for
                                                      INGSOC. Its slogan — war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is
                                                      strength — fits like a truncheon in the cradle of shattered bone..."

                                                      Bradford continues;

                                                      Intelligent human beings don't have to be reminded that Orwell did
                                                      us a service in writing his "1984". Grotesque human regime examples
                                                      can be given that go back to France and Phillip the Fair that
                                                      overturned anything to do with the feeble voice of the Magna Carta,
                                                      on through the regime of the Inquisition and the torturing of the
                                                      Templars giving us a mid-line of 1332 that lasted well beyond that
                                                      period, to Stalin, Nazi Germany, Mao, and again the little section
                                                      of time at the dawn of the 21st century, reveals once again the
                                                      activiation of this Karmic Group, intent on ripping fragments of the
                                                      I AM out of the Star patterns. How?

                                                      Shakespeare and all that we could, if we so desired, to understand
                                                      regarding why Ahriman wishes to destroy the tool of human karma by
                                                      creating on Earth cloned replications that rip human karma to
                                                      shreds, is simply there before us in the little poetic tragedy of
                                                      the Kennedy brothers and Romeo and Juliet.

                                                      "When he shall die take him and cut him out into stars and he shall
                                                      make the face of heaven so fine that all the world will be in love
                                                      with night and pay no worship to the garish sun." Quoting
                                                      Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, Robert Kennedy at the Democratic
                                                      National Convention, 8/27/64." TAKE HIM AND CUT HIM OUT INTO STARS.
                                                      As we do when we cut little stars that are all the same because we
                                                      have scissors and we can see how the folded paper is all linked into
                                                      a whole.

                                                      Bradford concludes;

                                                      Carol and I agree that ripening, the immense instincts, those same
                                                      instincts that rose up when the milkman in Amish PA. America, at 32,
                                                      took innocent girls hostage because he could not bear to see what
                                                      the I AM of his conscience knew of his own dark, dark, intent. And
                                                      what happens when we humans get to know all the secrets of our dark,
                                                      dark intents, that are swirling in the depths of our instincts? Bill
                                                      Gates opened these vast doors to the gurgling flood gates and surge
                                                      of all that is wisdom in humanity, our own Steiner Internet and
                                                      Archive had to struggle with complacent Anthros and still does, to
                                                      meet the vast instincts humanity carries and antidote them with
                                                      Michael Speak or Michael thought.

                                                      We know that adults on the path of Initiation Schooling get to know
                                                      that these dark intincts are not meant to hit the intellect with
                                                      their raw intensity without some preparation. That at 29 at the
                                                      Saturn return, to well into the Jupiter and Saturn age of our
                                                      biography we are entrusted to digest and ripen the kind of balance
                                                      of wisdom that does not place the human being alone with his demons
                                                      but gives him or her the tools of the Consciousness Soul.

                                                      But Bill Gates opened the world to vast, vast instincts, insights,
                                                      wisdom and tools....And Bill Gates was a mere 33 to 35, and if we
                                                      just look at Bill Gates Mission, we understand that if we take the
                                                      POF and open the mystery...Now kids, open the mystery literally
                                                      means looking down into the dark well of our deepest instincts, and
                                                      the roots of our I AM. What truly disturbs one and presents one with
                                                      another aspect of looking down the Well of the I AM and looking at
                                                      the overview and understanding the horrific courage it requires to
                                                      ripen and mature... there is the example of the very well we are
                                                      speaking about, in the film, "The Ring".

                                                      Naturally it is but a film. It is but a depiction of how we
                                                      penetrate to a most horrific mystery. A mystery that has addictive
                                                      power to it. It is a disturbing little film, "The Ring". Aside from
                                                      looking down the deep well and ripening our intelligence to face the
                                                      problems we have opened up, (opened a can of worms) the POF and all
                                                      aspects of Spiritual Science call upon the student to gain their I
                                                      AM compass orientation from the depths of looking into the deepest
                                                      mysteries of the Well and roots and connections to the depths of the
                                                      Earth.

                                                      Take for instance that the Water that Christ changes into wine that
                                                      is drawn from a well, and put in clay jars, six or seven clay jars.
                                                      Now Christ is going to first change this water from the deep bowels
                                                      of the etheric earth, into wine. Ah but he doesn't just decide to do
                                                      that, there is a wedding and a surge of joy and what we call
                                                      happiness and intoxication, a point where lots of people get
                                                      together, contribute and support, offer freely their gifts to some
                                                      couple who is being wed. An astral surge runs through the close knit
                                                      wedding guests, they make bread, contribute tables, sow fabrics, get
                                                      dressed up, the farmer planted, the plants grew, the meals were
                                                      cooked, the bread and flat breads were made from the flower, the
                                                      donkey's turned the stone wheel that ground the wheat. Vegtables
                                                      helped, gnomes helped, salamandars served the Donkey's, fires and
                                                      ovens had been made and trees grew fruits and were cultivated by
                                                      human hands and olives were sprinkled over the greens and the bread
                                                      dipped in the olive oils. These utter basics are all contributed,
                                                      not from a super-market but rather are all called forth from the
                                                      treasure of old instinctive causes for celebration, community and
                                                      human union. Instinctive Causes for celebration.

                                                      Christ adds to this a new force where enthusiasm and joy change the
                                                      entire chemical forces in the clay jars, and the water drawn from
                                                      the deep regions of the Earth, in a small etheric science miracle, a
                                                      new cognitive force has been changed by the I AM's participation.
                                                      The I AM has plenty of sweet instincts in the well and in these
                                                      days, what seems to sell are plenty of bitter forces that lurk like
                                                      monsters in the well as well. Steiner was an I AM initiate and he
                                                      like the rest of us was living in a science age where the I AM was
                                                      not even on the table as a consideration. Steiner as an I AM
                                                      initiate went down the well and brought out Biodynamics, Waldorf
                                                      Education, Eurythmy and the full fledged Science of the I AM in
                                                      potential.

                                                      And one more thing, the film "The Ring" centers around the problem
                                                      of one child who has something so potent, say, a complete 24/7 wide
                                                      awake, immortal force in her that cannot die and cannot be removed,
                                                      it is an acute problem that can either be understood as our immortal
                                                      core or rejected and become the curse and bane of humanity by
                                                      rejecting it. We cannot kill this immortal core. We can only learn
                                                      to ripen our courage to grasp how each individual child can be given
                                                      the tools and foundation to cope with the great thoughts of the
                                                      world and navigate and be given a compass that holds to a true
                                                      Spiritual North.

                                                      Naturally adults who are morally ripened individual are able to
                                                      educate children and one of the Miracles of the Science of the
                                                      Consciousness Soul is the conscious curriculum structure of Waldorf
                                                      Education. Biodynamics is another raw Science of the Consciousness
                                                      Soul and a victory of the I AM in the instincts of the Earth and
                                                      Stars. Waldorf Education extends into the Angelic intervention where
                                                      humans can plant the tools of consciousness that will be needed so
                                                      that by age 32 to 72 humanity can ripen the immense depth of the I
                                                      AM. Because as Carol has said, we are not Zarathustra's. We are slow
                                                      and stubborn humans.

                                                      Zarathustra had consolidated most of his former faculties by age
                                                      TWELVE. So Zarathustra's twelve is like our age 30 in terms of the I
                                                      Am ratio of speed and growth compared to the physical body of seven
                                                      years and the etheric body and the astral body and finally the speed
                                                      of the I AM are all differently paced clocks in the human psyche.
                                                    • carol
                                                      Dear Bradford, thank you for your `rich response. I especially enjoyed reading your conclusion in it s entirety. What truly disturbs one and presents one
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Oct 15, 2006
                                                        Dear Bradford, thank you for your `rich' response. I especially
                                                        enjoyed reading your conclusion in it's entirety.


                                                        "What truly disturbs one and presents one with
                                                        another aspect of looking down the Well of the I AM and looking at
                                                        the overview and understanding the horrific courage it requires to
                                                        ripen and mature..."

                                                        This statement touches me deeply because at the age of 22, I was
                                                        subject to a sudden metamorphoses; karmic events triggered me to
                                                        abruptly abandon the use of recreational drugs; I was almost
                                                        instantly placed in the higher worlds without education. I used all
                                                        the ingenuity, energy of my youth and all internalized experiences;
                                                        to climb the great mountain of my soul's and eternal self's wish for
                                                        me as if I was a penniless orphan, on hands and knees…

                                                        Bradford, the heavens gave me `living' Drama for which I am
                                                        eternally grateful and now, quite attached to as well. Carol.



                                                        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                                        <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > carol wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > "...I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having
                                                        > embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral' beauty in
                                                        > my 32th year, (which incidentally has me still marveling), it's
                                                        > worth noting that I know that at that time, I wasn't ripe to absorb
                                                        > the `living' meaning of the statement concerning Zarathustra and
                                                        > Christ.
                                                        >
                                                        > (Of course, Z's soul/spirit's participation in the mystery was
                                                        quite
                                                        > THE exception)
                                                        >
                                                        > For this, I was only really able to incorporate into my conscious
                                                        > experience, in a living way, without hesitation, only recently,
                                                        just
                                                        > past my mid forties.
                                                        >
                                                        > Would YOU say that this `mature' experience points towards the
                                                        > reasons why Steiner insisted on individuals waiting until their
                                                        > forties before assuming an `authoritative' voice vis ä vis
                                                        > spiritual science?
                                                        >
                                                        > As opposed to creating (deciphering) theories/art forms from
                                                        > within `the lively experience of youth'.
                                                        >
                                                        > Here are two distinct life stages which are spaced out and differ
                                                        in
                                                        > caracter: exceptional creative inspiration within (the fountain of)
                                                        > youth and unwavering conscious soul experience (through having
                                                        > processed enough complex `life' experiences and also from
                                                        possessing
                                                        > an intuitive experience of mortality)
                                                        >
                                                        > Would you like to elaborate on these ideas? Carol."
                                                        >
                                                        > Bradford comments;
                                                        >
                                                        > Carol it is great to hear your spiritual voice. (As thought is
                                                        > spiritual activity). For those of us who are not Zarathustra, we
                                                        can
                                                        > dig up example after biographical example of how our unprepared,
                                                        and
                                                        > semi-karmically prepared I AM's start facing our instincts at the
                                                        30
                                                        > to the 35 mark. Distinctly we can fetch Bill Gates and we can note
                                                        > how his attention, mission, destiny, certainly centered on the
                                                        > objectification of the Global Intelligence that could well up,
                                                        gush
                                                        > upwards from the deep gorge of untapped human vision, in
                                                        > connectedness everywhere. Thus all those particpating, if they
                                                        have
                                                        > the means, would be faced with a storm of hidden information, vast
                                                        > fingertip libraries of humanity, Porn, and instincts, raw thought,
                                                        > Orwellian thought, Luciferically watered down or poison pill laced
                                                        > thought. Ahrimanic data, numbers, cold cruel pictures of human
                                                        > beastliness, the worst and most hideous beastliness in all of the
                                                        > beastly kingdoms.
                                                        >
                                                        > With this information it is not hard to see with senstive artistic
                                                        > imagination and intuition how hardened, rigidified and icy
                                                        > standpoints congeal to Horns. Ten horns or horned beasts that
                                                        > represent rigidified, forming slowly, Corporate Political systems
                                                        > that calcify into overall materialistic mind sets, that sit
                                                        > comfortably in tens of millions.
                                                        >
                                                        > When you add nano technology and how ahrimanic forces which have
                                                        the
                                                        > intent to rip fragments of cloned humanity out of the karmic star
                                                        > fabric, such a fantasy as depicted in films like the "The
                                                        > Island" "Gattica" "Blade Runner" ...where humans are grown for
                                                        > replacement and organ parts, for Gold and Immortality and serve
                                                        the
                                                        > calcification of the disease avarice, the entire Corporate anti-
                                                        > Sophia realm of The Whore of Babylon, isn't even hard to picture
                                                        it
                                                        > developing out of human instincts the way John saw it.
                                                        >
                                                        > John did the best he could to describe it, rising up out of the
                                                        > intinctual morass of humanity, as a great congealing Anti-Human
                                                        > factoring.John's Whore of Babylon was the Shadow on Earth of
                                                        bright
                                                        > Sophia Star wisdom fallen into human snares. Steiner updated and
                                                        > filled in some of the blanks that John left as theory and Steiner
                                                        > brought us into current Michael Speak which is different than
                                                        > Orwell's NEWSPEAK. At the Dawn of the Age of Light we were given
                                                        > updates and clarifications of all that was semi clouded and
                                                        confused
                                                        > coming from human I AM events.
                                                        >
                                                        > "Newspeak was the official language of Oceania and had been
                                                        devised
                                                        > to meet the ideological needs of Ingsoc, or English Socialism. In
                                                        > the year 1984 there was not as yet anyone who used Newspeak as his
                                                        > sole means of communication, either in speech or writing. The
                                                        > leading articles in The Times were written in it, but could only
                                                        be
                                                        > carried out by a specialist. It was expected that Newspeak would
                                                        > have finally superseded Oldspeak (or Standard English) by about
                                                        the
                                                        > year 2050"
                                                        >
                                                        > Seattle Times:
                                                        >
                                                        > "The use of powerful and well-placed words and images worked for
                                                        > INGSOC. Its slogan — war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance
                                                        is
                                                        > strength — fits like a truncheon in the cradle of shattered
                                                        bone..."
                                                        >
                                                        > Bradford continues;
                                                        >
                                                        > Intelligent human beings don't have to be reminded that Orwell did
                                                        > us a service in writing his "1984". Grotesque human regime
                                                        examples
                                                        > can be given that go back to France and Phillip the Fair that
                                                        > overturned anything to do with the feeble voice of the Magna
                                                        Carta,
                                                        > on through the regime of the Inquisition and the torturing of the
                                                        > Templars giving us a mid-line of 1332 that lasted well beyond that
                                                        > period, to Stalin, Nazi Germany, Mao, and again the little section
                                                        > of time at the dawn of the 21st century, reveals once again the
                                                        > activiation of this Karmic Group, intent on ripping fragments of
                                                        the
                                                        > I AM out of the Star patterns. How?
                                                        >
                                                        > Shakespeare and all that we could, if we so desired, to understand
                                                        > regarding why Ahriman wishes to destroy the tool of human karma by
                                                        > creating on Earth cloned replications that rip human karma to
                                                        > shreds, is simply there before us in the little poetic tragedy of
                                                        > the Kennedy brothers and Romeo and Juliet.
                                                        >
                                                        > "When he shall die take him and cut him out into stars and he
                                                        shall
                                                        > make the face of heaven so fine that all the world will be in love
                                                        > with night and pay no worship to the garish sun." Quoting
                                                        > Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, Robert Kennedy at the Democratic
                                                        > National Convention, 8/27/64." TAKE HIM AND CUT HIM OUT INTO
                                                        STARS.
                                                        > As we do when we cut little stars that are all the same because we
                                                        > have scissors and we can see how the folded paper is all linked
                                                        into
                                                        > a whole.
                                                        >
                                                        > Bradford concludes;
                                                        >
                                                        > Carol and I agree that ripening, the immense instincts, those same
                                                        > instincts that rose up when the milkman in Amish PA. America, at
                                                        32,
                                                        > took innocent girls hostage because he could not bear to see what
                                                        > the I AM of his conscience knew of his own dark, dark, intent. And
                                                        > what happens when we humans get to know all the secrets of our
                                                        dark,
                                                        > dark intents, that are swirling in the depths of our instincts?
                                                        Bill
                                                        > Gates opened these vast doors to the gurgling flood gates and
                                                        surge
                                                        > of all that is wisdom in humanity, our own Steiner Internet and
                                                        > Archive had to struggle with complacent Anthros and still does, to
                                                        > meet the vast instincts humanity carries and antidote them with
                                                        > Michael Speak or Michael thought.
                                                        >
                                                        > We know that adults on the path of Initiation Schooling get to
                                                        know
                                                        > that these dark intincts are not meant to hit the intellect with
                                                        > their raw intensity without some preparation. That at 29 at the
                                                        > Saturn return, to well into the Jupiter and Saturn age of our
                                                        > biography we are entrusted to digest and ripen the kind of balance
                                                        > of wisdom that does not place the human being alone with his
                                                        demons
                                                        > but gives him or her the tools of the Consciousness Soul.
                                                        >
                                                        > But Bill Gates opened the world to vast, vast instincts, insights,
                                                        > wisdom and tools....And Bill Gates was a mere 33 to 35, and if we
                                                        > just look at Bill Gates Mission, we understand that if we take the
                                                        > POF and open the mystery...Now kids, open the mystery literally
                                                        > means looking down into the dark well of our deepest instincts,
                                                        and
                                                        > the roots of our I AM. What truly disturbs one and presents one
                                                        with
                                                        > another aspect of looking down the Well of the I AM and looking at
                                                        > the overview and understanding the horrific courage it requires to
                                                        > ripen and mature... there is the example of the very well we are
                                                        > speaking about, in the film, "The Ring".
                                                        >
                                                        > Naturally it is but a film. It is but a depiction of how we
                                                        > penetrate to a most horrific mystery. A mystery that has addictive
                                                        > power to it. It is a disturbing little film, "The Ring". Aside
                                                        from
                                                        > looking down the deep well and ripening our intelligence to face
                                                        the
                                                        > problems we have opened up, (opened a can of worms) the POF and
                                                        all
                                                        > aspects of Spiritual Science call upon the student to gain their I
                                                        > AM compass orientation from the depths of looking into the deepest
                                                        > mysteries of the Well and roots and connections to the depths of
                                                        the
                                                        > Earth.
                                                        >
                                                        > Take for instance that the Water that Christ changes into wine
                                                        that
                                                        > is drawn from a well, and put in clay jars, six or seven clay
                                                        jars.
                                                        > Now Christ is going to first change this water from the deep
                                                        bowels
                                                        > of the etheric earth, into wine. Ah but he doesn't just decide to
                                                        do
                                                        > that, there is a wedding and a surge of joy and what we call
                                                        > happiness and intoxication, a point where lots of people get
                                                        > together, contribute and support, offer freely their gifts to some
                                                        > couple who is being wed. An astral surge runs through the close
                                                        knit
                                                        > wedding guests, they make bread, contribute tables, sow fabrics,
                                                        get
                                                        > dressed up, the farmer planted, the plants grew, the meals were
                                                        > cooked, the bread and flat breads were made from the flower, the
                                                        > donkey's turned the stone wheel that ground the wheat. Vegtables
                                                        > helped, gnomes helped, salamandars served the Donkey's, fires and
                                                        > ovens had been made and trees grew fruits and were cultivated by
                                                        > human hands and olives were sprinkled over the greens and the
                                                        bread
                                                        > dipped in the olive oils. These utter basics are all contributed,
                                                        > not from a super-market but rather are all called forth from the
                                                        > treasure of old instinctive causes for celebration, community and
                                                        > human union. Instinctive Causes for celebration.
                                                        >
                                                        > Christ adds to this a new force where enthusiasm and joy change
                                                        the
                                                        > entire chemical forces in the clay jars, and the water drawn from
                                                        > the deep regions of the Earth, in a small etheric science miracle,
                                                        a
                                                        > new cognitive force has been changed by the I AM's participation.
                                                        > The I AM has plenty of sweet instincts in the well and in these
                                                        > days, what seems to sell are plenty of bitter forces that lurk
                                                        like
                                                        > monsters in the well as well. Steiner was an I AM initiate and he
                                                        > like the rest of us was living in a science age where the I AM was
                                                        > not even on the table as a consideration. Steiner as an I AM
                                                        > initiate went down the well and brought out Biodynamics, Waldorf
                                                        > Education, Eurythmy and the full fledged Science of the I AM in
                                                        > potential.
                                                        >
                                                        > And one more thing, the film "The Ring" centers around the problem
                                                        > of one child who has something so potent, say, a complete 24/7
                                                        wide
                                                        > awake, immortal force in her that cannot die and cannot be
                                                        removed,
                                                        > it is an acute problem that can either be understood as our
                                                        immortal
                                                        > core or rejected and become the curse and bane of humanity by
                                                        > rejecting it. We cannot kill this immortal core. We can only learn
                                                        > to ripen our courage to grasp how each individual child can be
                                                        given
                                                        > the tools and foundation to cope with the great thoughts of the
                                                        > world and navigate and be given a compass that holds to a true
                                                        > Spiritual North.
                                                        >
                                                        > Naturally adults who are morally ripened individual are able to
                                                        > educate children and one of the Miracles of the Science of the
                                                        > Consciousness Soul is the conscious curriculum structure of
                                                        Waldorf
                                                        > Education. Biodynamics is another raw Science of the Consciousness
                                                        > Soul and a victory of the I AM in the instincts of the Earth and
                                                        > Stars. Waldorf Education extends into the Angelic intervention
                                                        where
                                                        > humans can plant the tools of consciousness that will be needed so
                                                        > that by age 32 to 72 humanity can ripen the immense depth of the I
                                                        > AM. Because as Carol has said, we are not Zarathustra's. We are
                                                        slow
                                                        > and stubborn humans.
                                                        >
                                                        > Zarathustra had consolidated most of his former faculties by age
                                                        > TWELVE. So Zarathustra's twelve is like our age 30 in terms of the
                                                        I
                                                        > Am ratio of speed and growth compared to the physical body of
                                                        seven
                                                        > years and the etheric body and the astral body and finally the
                                                        speed
                                                        > of the I AM are all differently paced clocks in the human psyche.
                                                        >
                                                      • holderlin66
                                                        The tell tale signs of a hot choleric character profile, who merges with fire, the fire of ideas, the candle flame, and writes a wonderful play on that flame
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Nov 19, 2006
                                                          The tell tale signs of a hot choleric character profile, who merges
                                                          with fire, the fire of ideas, the candle flame, and writes a
                                                          wonderful play on that flame called the Candle Maker that had
                                                          ignited like a lit flame in his intellect. Bruno represents living
                                                          and dying by the fiery temperament and character of the choleric
                                                          thinker, doer, who feeds off resistance and human ignorance in the
                                                          dawning age of mighty light that ripped through his thinking.

                                                          Bruno and Waldorf education understands human realities as the basis
                                                          of grasping that Bruno was born near the active sulphur spewing
                                                          volcano Vesuvius and we can see how powerfully this environment
                                                          infused into his blood the fire salamanders from our previous
                                                          temperament studies. When we actually understand the clues of
                                                          various individual destinies, we can also take into consideration
                                                          where an individual grew up and was born and what impressed his
                                                          early etheric development. Here we see what impressed Giordano
                                                          Bruno's early etheric development.

                                                          http://pages.zoom.co.uk/thuban/html/bruno.html

                                                          "In the year 1548 an Italian boy was born in the little town of
                                                          Nola, not far from Vesuvius. Although, he spent the greater part of
                                                          his life in hostile and foreign countries he was drawn back to his
                                                          home at the end of his travels and after he had written nearly
                                                          twenty books.

                                                          When he was thirteen years old he began to go to school at the
                                                          Monastery of Saint Domenico. It was a famous place. Thomas Aquinas,
                                                          himself a Dominican, had lived there and taught. Within a few years
                                                          Bruno had become a Dominican priest.

                                                          It was not long before the monks of Saint Dominico began to learn
                                                          something about the extraordinary enthusiasm of their young
                                                          colleague. He was frank, outspoken and lacking in reticence. It was
                                                          not long before he got himself into trouble. It was evident that
                                                          this boy could not be made to fit into Dominican grooves. One of
                                                          the first things that a student has to learn is to give the teacher
                                                          the answers that the teacher wants. The average teacher is the
                                                          preserver of the ancient land marks. The students are his audience.
                                                          They applaud but they must not innovate. They must learn to labor
                                                          and to wait. It was not Bruno's behavior but his opinions that got
                                                          him into trouble.

                                                          He ran away from school, from his home town, from his own country
                                                          and tried to find among strangers and foreigners a congenial
                                                          atmosphere for his intellectual integrity that he could not find at
                                                          home. It is difficult not to get sentimental about Bruno. He was a
                                                          man without a country and, finally, without a church.

                                                          Bruno was interested in the nature of ideas. Although the name was
                                                          not yet invented it will be perfectly proper to dub Bruno as an
                                                          epistemologist, or as a pioneer Semanticist. He takes fresh stock
                                                          of the human mind."

                                                          http://snowbarsk.autoklad.com/images/zasimovich/sculpture/5.jpg

                                                          Choleric type;

                                                          Now the hot blooded and fiery choleric, can be found in Emergency
                                                          Rooms and in Medics everywhere. They are not always fiery red-headed
                                                          carrot tops that always stare at you with 'come on, go ahead, I can
                                                          take ya' faces. That fire appears in the soft embering glow of
                                                          Steiner's in depth lectures, fiery Michael forces supercharged his
                                                          blood, where the warmth in his Iron and Light ignited spirit flares
                                                          that revealed clarity where there was gathering darkness. His words
                                                          rang as consecrated light in all directions. Fission, fusion and
                                                          Iron centered sun spirituality cooked Steiner's rich dishes with a
                                                          warm, kindled, human blaze.

                                                          But then again, on the battle front of life, saving lives, from fire
                                                          men and women to police and swat teams to search and rescue on the
                                                          high seas, to special forces teams, you hear the choleric
                                                          shout, 'GO, GO, GO, GO!'. Adrenaline junkies can be found working
                                                          rush hours in restaurants, on the cooking line in the heat of the
                                                          battle, where the grills spit fire right in their faces and they
                                                          spit back. Choleric fire is in all of us, even Tiger Woods breaks
                                                          from his Zen mode to get really pissed off sometimes.

                                                          "Some people – and all narcissists – are addicted to excitement, to
                                                          the adrenaline rush, to the danger inevitably and invariably
                                                          involved. They are the adrenaline junkies. All narcissists are
                                                          adrenaline junkies – but not all adrenaline junkies are narcissists.

                                                          Thus, an adrenaline junkie must have a supply, a feed, which always
                                                          comes with invented excitement, real or invented drama or emotional
                                                          drama queens that have choleric forces in their feeling life. We can
                                                          understand that choleric forces or any of the other temperaments can
                                                          lodge themselves, not only in the will, but in the feeling, and in
                                                          the region of mental aggression. On the one hand solid Choleric
                                                          types are described as closer to the ground, Napoleonic and over
                                                          confident. In a pinch you know that a Choleric will cover your back,
                                                          fight to the death and remain in the game though anxiety is
                                                          everywhere and the odds against you are everywhere a great choleric
                                                          will be the last face you see before you pass out.
                                                        • holderlin66
                                                          Correction fire elemental of the choleric system http://phopro.ie/earthspirit/fire_salamander.jpg http://www.matrifocus.com/IMB05/images/fire-salamander-sm.jpg
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Nov 19, 2006
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