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Re: Transformations for the Occident - III

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  • Steve Hale
    ... Anthroposophy s failure only extends to Rudolf Steiner s death before he could achieve the necessary catalyst that would have impelled it into the future.
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 28 7:51 PM
      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:
      > Steve, I disagree with you about Anthroposophy's failure. There are
      > a multitude more of highlights to the picture of our day which can
      > be illuminated for individual souls through `the path' of Steiner's
      > spiritual science, and these souls would assuredly be assisted by
      > disincarnate ones who familiarized themselves with spiritual
      > occultisms in the last century.
      >
      > PS I hope if anything that you recognize this letter as a `living'
      > discourse. Carol.

      Anthroposophy's failure only extends to Rudolf Steiner's death before
      he could achieve the necessary catalyst that would have impelled it
      into the future. If he had lived for eight more years this would have
      been achieved. And he would have lived a perfect platonic life of 72
      years; perfect in that a world fellowship of free schools for spiritual
      science would have taken root under his guidance as President of the
      Free School. Alas, the presidency remains vacant to this day, and the
      second and third class remain unknown and unfulfilled. And it doesn't
      have to be that way.

      Of paramount concern to me is Marie Steiner's withholding of the
      Christmas Conference proceedings for 21 years, until 1944. This, more
      than anything else, demonstrates an egregious lack of truth and
      sincerity in a pivotal moment in time where "time was of the essence".

      Steve
    • celestial_vision@comcast.net
      ... =========== Steve, Where is the best information on the Christmas conference and the last years of Steiner s life? Is there a book, or pamphlet you can
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 29 6:38 AM
        > Of paramount concern to me is Marie Steiner's withholding of the
        > Christmas Conference proceedings for 21 years, until 1944. This, more
        > than anything else, demonstrates an egregious lack of truth and
        > sincerity in a pivotal moment in time where "time was of the essence".
        ===========

        Steve,
        Where is the best information on the Christmas conference and the last years of Steiner's life? Is there a book, or pamphlet you can point me to?
        Thanks,
        Stephen
      • carol
        Dear Steve, the same can be said for many events of which spiritually inspired people partook. I acquired the lengthy volume Light for the new
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 29 8:51 AM
          Dear Steve, the same can be said for many events of which
          spiritually inspired people partook. I acquired the lengthy
          volume "Light for the new millennium-Rudolf Steiner's association
          with Helmuth and Eliza von Moltek-Letters, Documents and After-Death
          Communications", of which I managed to skim through this summer.

          That which struck me was the `immediacy' and `force' of which
          the `Spirit of the times' innately possesses to gain precedence over
          the intent of good willed souls. I have also seen with my
          own `eyes' in an unrelated event how when `destiny' raises it's
          authoritative forearm in the heavens, there was no way of stopping
          it. This falls in the realm of true mystery…

          "Marie Steiner's withholding of the Christmas Conference proceedings
          for 21 years, until 1944"

          She may have interpreted the severity of the dangers pressing upon
          her (New World Order) as an indication to lay low for a while. If
          you manage to get a hold of the book mentioned above, you will have
          a sense of the environment in which Steiner was living in and around
          the 1st World War. It resembles in feeling, the times in which we
          now live (his was a minor precursor)- risky if you expose yourself
          too much. And remember that at that time, genuine spiritual
          experience was still recognizable and accessible; it remained the
          task of the new materialistic rulers to cunningly suppress it beyond
          public access. And this was ultimately achieved through the
          humiliation of German people through their central role in 2 World
          Wars, and notably the `holocaust'.

          Which brings us to our time. The `living' idea which must now take
          hold of European aristocratic society is that " the culture" (the
          inspiration behind classical music, etc) of which they so appreciate
          is in the gravest danger of succumbing to the `Arihmanic forces'
          recently brought forth (macrocosmic incarnation) through the
          conscious/unconscious agenda of the New World Order (of which some
          partook).

          Basically I see a reality in which the Spirit of the times has
          presented European ruling society with a grand choice: either `back
          out of it' or forsake ALL!

          Carol..


















          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@>
          wrote:
          > > Steve, I disagree with you about Anthroposophy's failure. There
          are
          > > a multitude more of highlights to the picture of our day which
          can
          > > be illuminated for individual souls through `the path' of
          Steiner's
          > > spiritual science, and these souls would assuredly be assisted
          by
          > > disincarnate ones who familiarized themselves with spiritual
          > > occultisms in the last century.
          > >
          > > PS I hope if anything that you recognize this letter as a
          `living'
          > > discourse. Carol.
          >
          > Anthroposophy's failure only extends to Rudolf Steiner's death
          before
          > he could achieve the necessary catalyst that would have impelled
          it
          > into the future. If he had lived for eight more years this would
          have
          > been achieved. And he would have lived a perfect platonic life of
          72
          > years; perfect in that a world fellowship of free schools for
          spiritual
          > science would have taken root under his guidance as President of
          the
          > Free School. Alas, the presidency remains vacant to this day, and
          the
          > second and third class remain unknown and unfulfilled. And it
          doesn't
          > have to be that way.
          >
          > Of paramount concern to me is Marie Steiner's withholding of the
          > Christmas Conference proceedings for 21 years, until 1944. This,
          more
          > than anything else, demonstrates an egregious lack of truth and
          > sincerity in a pivotal moment in time where "time was of the
          essence".
          >
          > Steve
          >
        • Robert Mason
          ... the last years of Steiner s life? Is there a book, or pamphlet you can point me to?
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 29 12:02 PM
            To Stephen, who wrote:

            >>Where is the best information on the Christmas conference and
            the last years of Steiner's life? Is there a book, or pamphlet
            you can point me to?<<

            There is a lot of literature about this, most
            of it controversial.

            I don't know that this is the "best", but
            probably the most influential is Prokofieff's
            *Rudolf Steiner and the Founding of the New Mysteries*:
            http://www.steinerbooks.org/detail.html?id=0904693619

            Prokofieff has been trenchantly critiqued by
            Irina Gordienko: *Sergei O. Prokofieff: Myth and Reality*:
            http://lochmann-verlag.com/gordienkoEnglish_info.htm

            More recently, Proky has come out with this
            massive tome:
            *May Human Beings Hear It! The Mystery of the Christmas
            Conference*
            http://www.steinerbooks.org/detail.html?id=1902636538

            Perhaps more accessible is this little book by
            Bernard Lievegoed: *Mystery Streams in Europe and the New
            Mysteries*:
            http://www.steinerbooks.org/detail.html?session=54a377690b604c2424b6cb6287ca8ed0&id=0880100028

            More on the "organizational" aspects of what
            Steiner tried to accomplish during and after the
            CC, probably the essential book is Rudolf Saacke's
            *Die Formfrage der Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft
            und die innere Opposition gegen Rudolf Steiner*

            [Zu beziehen bei www.Libri.de
            oder über den Buchhandel

            [Wer sich über die Geschichte der Anthroposophischen
            Gesellschaft der Weihnachtstagung von 1923 (AG) und den
            Zusammenhang zwischen dieser und dem am 8 Februar 1925 aus dem
            Verein des Goetheanum der freien Hochschule für
            Geisteswissenschaft (VdG) hervorgegangenen Verein Allgemeine
            Anthroposophische Gesellschaft genauer informieren möchte, sei
            auf die in unserem Verlag erschienene Schrift von Rudolf Saacke:
            ‹Die Formfrage der Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft und die
            innere Opposition gegen Rudolf Steiner› hingewiesen (Zu beziehen
            über www.libri.de oder über den Buchhandel (ISBN 3-8311-0075-0)]

            Saacke does have a partial English translation;
            if you ask him, he might send it to you (he
            does understand English): <fenix@...>

            All this is still very controversial, and the
            "constitutional" struggle continues to this
            very day. If you're interested, you might want
            to join this e-group (the only one I know of
            like it in English):
            http://lists.topica.com/lists/Anthroposophy_Constitution/

            More controversy: Recently Gennady Bondarev
            has come out with his entry:
            *Die Weihnachtstagung in geänderter Zeitlage*
            http://lochmann-verlag.com/bondarewwtg_info.htm

            And on and on. There's lots and lots of
            talk on these themes, and a lot of apocryphal
            and semi-apocryphal "information", such as
            the story that shortly before he died Steiner
            said that the Christmas Conference had failed
            (*nicht angekommen*?). If you google
            "christmas conference" with "steiner", you may
            start to get an idea of this huge and
            controversial subject. I don't know of one
            "best" book that will make it all simple and
            easy. Maybe the one by Lievegoed might be
            the best introduction, but that's just my
            guess.

            Good luck,

            Robert Mason



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          • celestial_vision@comcast.net
            ... From: Robert Mason ... ============== Robert, Thank you once again! - Stephen ... the last years of Steiner s life? Is there a
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 29 1:07 PM
              -------------- Original message ----------------------
              From: Robert Mason <robertsmason_99@...>
              > To Stephen, who wrote:
              >
              > >>Where is the best information on the Christmas conference and
              > the last years of Steiner's life? Is there a book, or pamphlet
              > you can point me to?<<
              >
              > There is a lot of literature about this, most
              > of it controversial.
              ==============

              Robert,
              Thank you once again!
              - Stephen
            • Steve Hale
              ... This, more ... essence . ... last years of Steiner s life? Is there a book, or pamphlet you can point me to? ... Stephen, Read the Initiative To All ,
              Message 6 of 14 , Sep 29 7:08 PM
                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, celestial_vision@... wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > > Of paramount concern to me is Marie Steiner's withholding of the
                > > Christmas Conference proceedings for 21 years, until 1944.
                This, more
                > > than anything else, demonstrates an egregious lack of truth and
                > > sincerity in a pivotal moment in time where "time was of the
                essence".
                > ===========
                >
                > Steve,
                > Where is the best information on the Christmas conference and the
                last years of Steiner's life? Is there a book, or pamphlet you can
                point me to?
                > Thanks,
                > Stephen

                Stephen,
                Read the "Initiative To All", which was the first general membership
                initiative that sought to look anew at the original conference
                motivations and the failures that occurred beginning as soon as
                Rudolf Steiner died. According to its author, Willy Heidt, not one
                solid initiative has ever been achieved to this day based on Rudolf
                Steiner's vision for a world movement of anthroposophy as a
                superearthly event in which the gods communed with man.
                Interestingly, this initiative was presented in 1997, which was
                quite a pivotal year.

                Also, GA260, which contains the complete Christmas Conference
                Proceedings of the General Anthroposophical Society, December 24,
                1923 - January 1, 1924, was finally published in English in 1989.
                It contains an interesting foreword by Marie Steiner from 1944, when
                these proceedings were first published in German. - Steve

                ps- please read the essay below as it contains much valuable
                background for consideration on the conference.

                http://www.heaf.freeuk.com/nr46.htm
              • Steve Hale
                ... This nephew of the grand field marshal Helmuth von Moltke, the great strategist of the 19th century German Empire, was no military leader, as I m sure you
                Message 7 of 14 , Sep 29 7:23 PM
                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Dear Steve, the same can be said for many events of which
                  > spiritually inspired people partook. I acquired the lengthy
                  > volume "Light for the new millennium-Rudolf Steiner's association
                  > with Helmuth and Eliza von Moltek-Letters, Documents and After-Death
                  > Communications", of which I managed to skim through this summer.

                  This nephew of the grand field marshal Helmuth von Moltke, the great
                  strategist of the 19th century German Empire, was no military leader,
                  as I'm sure you know, even though he looked the part. Rather, he
                  aspired to theosophy, and his wife's letters to Rudolf Steiner after
                  his death in 1916 are very interesting, as is his own experience of
                  seeing himself as the reincarnation of Pope Nicholas I of the 9th
                  century, surrounded by former evil popes now reincarnated as his field
                  generals at the outbreak of WWI in Germany. This vision occurred as
                  part of his nervous breakdown after being stripped of command shortly
                  after the first Battle of the Marne on September 5, 1914. He was a
                  good and decent man who was betrayed by the forces of evil that
                  surrounded him in physical bodies.

                  I don't know if this book you reference makes note of this, but he
                  communicated astrally with Rudolf Steiner for the "Karma of
                  Untruthfulness" lectures at the end of 1916 and early 1917, which give
                  the occult background of WWI, which only the spirit of von Moltke could
                  have accurately communicated so well to Rudolf Steiner.

                  Steve
                • carol
                  From what I picked up, his `overwhelming sadness was more related to the fact that his `soul couldn t support the scope of betrayal of which was partly
                  Message 8 of 14 , Sep 29 8:23 PM
                    From what I picked up, his `overwhelming sadness' was more related
                    to the fact that his `soul' couldn't support the scope of betrayal
                    of which was partly directed towards him, and partly directed
                    towards the `unsuspecting ' German culture and Soul. (all of
                    which relates to the military post which he assumed)

                    Maybe you should take a look at the book and perhaps allow the `guy'
                    the right to reflect on some deep questions throughout his
                    years,while at the same time assuming a military post. Would you
                    have preferred that he partook in more decadent pastimes? Perhaps he
                    would have been less sensitive to the 'mischief' obstucting his
                    idealism.

                    Anyway, the volume includes a short recollection of events- his
                    reflections and memoirs, which was blocked from proper publishing
                    and distribution ((his family caved into pressures following his
                    death) because it was thought that the information might diminish
                    Germany's blame before the international tribunal (can't remember
                    which). I have to say that discussions of wars is something I like
                    to stay clear of; I not a guy and it's not my domain; but I
                    recommend the book, it has many introductory texts and many end
                    notes, written by people who try whole heartedly to shed light on
                    just what was happening at the time. Don't expect a lot of
                    intellectual bullying, it's written by sympathetic, intellectual
                    Anthroposophists.








                    In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > ---
                  • Steve Hale
                    Dear Carol, I want to thank you for bringing this material on Helmuth von Moltke, and giving me the title of this book that came out a couple of years ago. I
                    Message 9 of 14 , Sep 30 8:23 PM
                      Dear Carol,

                      I want to thank you for bringing this material on Helmuth von
                      Moltke, and giving me the title of this book that came out a couple
                      of years ago. I remember reading a synopsis of it back then, and
                      wanted to read it because I had been doing my own research into his
                      very significant and tragic role in the work of the antichrist in
                      Germany, and how Rudolf Steiner so coincidentally played his part.
                      It is a great story of a man foiled by the evil forces, and then
                      resurrected through the work he performed through Rudolf Steiner for
                      the world anthroposophical perspective that awaits the common
                      recognition that will someday designate future progress.

                      Steve

                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > From what I picked up, his `overwhelming sadness' was more related
                      > to the fact that his `soul' couldn't support the scope of betrayal
                      > of which was partly directed towards him, and partly directed
                      > towards the `unsuspecting ' German culture and Soul. (all of
                      > which relates to the military post which he assumed)
                      >
                      > Maybe you should take a look at the book and perhaps allow the
                      `guy'
                      > the right to reflect on some deep questions throughout his
                      > years,while at the same time assuming a military post. Would you
                      > have preferred that he partook in more decadent pastimes? Perhaps
                      he
                      > would have been less sensitive to the 'mischief' obstucting his
                      > idealism.
                      >
                      > Anyway, the volume includes a short recollection of events- his
                      > reflections and memoirs, which was blocked from proper publishing
                      > and distribution ((his family caved into pressures following his
                      > death) because it was thought that the information might diminish
                      > Germany's blame before the international tribunal (can't remember
                      > which). I have to say that discussions of wars is something I
                      like
                      > to stay clear of; I not a guy and it's not my domain; but I
                      > recommend the book, it has many introductory texts and many end
                      > notes, written by people who try whole heartedly to shed light on
                      > just what was happening at the time. Don't expect a lot of
                      > intellectual bullying, it's written by sympathetic, intellectual
                      > Anthroposophists.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > ---
                      >
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