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Amoeba contra Manu

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  • opetha
    Hello, I m not completely sure this is the right to place to ask this question (the theosophy pages are smogged in apana---xxxx-growing adverts!!), but.... The
    Message 1 of 30 , Sep 28, 2006
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      Hello,

      I'm not completely sure this is the right to place to ask this
      question (the theosophy pages are smogged in apana---xxxx-growing
      adverts!!), but....

      The argument between evolutionists and the theory of the Manvantaras
      etc. still interests me, mainly because Blavatski was so dapple at
      fighting Darwin; I've read the SECRET DOCTRINE maybe three times but
      cannot see valid argument in Blavatski.

      Can anyone help enlighten me, it may take a few words, but it would
      be much appreciated.

      How can we--as anthroposophists and theosophists---reckon adequately
      the testament of a world evolving from rare spirit into dense matter
      over seven Manvantaras with its almost spontaneous sets of races,
      when we have sedementary records, radio isotopics and and almost
      empirically-excepted law of natural selection and the big-bang?

      I know that a very dry scientist cannot glimpse into such astral-
      phenomena, spreading and belittling the evolutionists time-span as it
      does, but then so many fossil records justify environmental-
      adaptation in the species---though I'm not sure how bona fide the
      Hadean Earth theory is. . . .

      Is there some paradox we are not getting? that TIME itself has been
      changing too, maybe with a spiritual Earth not only falling into
      matter, but also into TIME, at point x, where history spans that way
      and the future this? after all, astral phenomena is objective I
      believe (compare, for instance, the theosophical notion of the
      spiritual universe to a rather modern idea propunded by the Pleidean
      cult with its being governed by "extra-terestrials" residing about he
      star Alcyone as opposed to Pitars in the Moon).

      Can some-one please direct me to a good book/internet article on this
      debate, or can someone give me either their scientific opinion or
      envisioned truth.

      Many thanks and blessings,
      Godo.
    • opetha
      Hello, I understand then that this is not a familiar--or famililarly understood--topic. But thanks anyway. Godot. ... Manvantaras ... but ... adequately ...
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 2, 2006
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        Hello,

        I understand then that this is not a familiar--or famililarly
        understood--topic. But thanks anyway.

        Godot.








        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello,
        >
        > I'm not completely sure this is the right to place to ask this
        > question (the theosophy pages are smogged in apana---xxxx-growing
        > adverts!!), but....
        >
        > The argument between evolutionists and the theory of the
        Manvantaras
        > etc. still interests me, mainly because Blavatski was so dapple at
        > fighting Darwin; I've read the SECRET DOCTRINE maybe three times
        but
        > cannot see valid argument in Blavatski.
        >
        > Can anyone help enlighten me, it may take a few words, but it would
        > be much appreciated.
        >
        > How can we--as anthroposophists and theosophists---reckon
        adequately
        > the testament of a world evolving from rare spirit into dense
        matter
        > over seven Manvantaras with its almost spontaneous sets of races,
        > when we have sedementary records, radio isotopics and and almost
        > empirically-excepted law of natural selection and the big-bang?
        >
        > I know that a very dry scientist cannot glimpse into such astral-
        > phenomena, spreading and belittling the evolutionists time-span as
        it
        > does, but then so many fossil records justify environmental-
        > adaptation in the species---though I'm not sure how bona fide the
        > Hadean Earth theory is. . . .
        >
        > Is there some paradox we are not getting? that TIME itself has been
        > changing too, maybe with a spiritual Earth not only falling into
        > matter, but also into TIME, at point x, where history spans that
        way
        > and the future this? after all, astral phenomena is objective I
        > believe (compare, for instance, the theosophical notion of the
        > spiritual universe to a rather modern idea propunded by the
        Pleidean
        > cult with its being governed by "extra-terestrials" residing about
        he
        > star Alcyone as opposed to Pitars in the Moon).
        >
        > Can some-one please direct me to a good book/internet article on
        this
        > debate, or can someone give me either their scientific opinion or
        > envisioned truth.
        >
        > Many thanks and blessings,
        > Godo.
        >
      • holderlin66
        opetha wrote: How can we--as anthroposophists and theosophists---reckon adequately the testament of a world evolving from rare spirit into dense matter over
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 2, 2006
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          opetha wrote:

          "How can we--as anthroposophists and theosophists---reckon adequately
          the testament of a world evolving from rare spirit into dense matter
          over seven Manvantaras with its almost spontaneous sets of races,
          when we have sedementary records, radio isotopics and and almost
          empirically-excepted law of natural selection and the big-bang?

          I know that a very dry scientist cannot glimpse into such astral-
          phenomena, spreading and belittling the evolutionists time-span as it
          does, but then so many fossil records justify environmental-
          adaptation in the species---though I'm not sure how bona fide the
          Hadean Earth theory is. . . .

          Is there some paradox we are not getting? that TIME itself has been
          changing too, maybe with a spiritual Earth not only falling into
          matter, but also into TIME, at point x, where history spans that way
          and the future this? "

          Bradford responds;

          I enjoyed some of your recent descriptions of New Age Lucifer and
          Ahriman offshoots. Gradually the student of spiritual science learns
          how to look at the various predominating soul forces, Michael
          Jackson makes a very good study in Luciferic tendencies, yet, the
          stinging luciferic/ahrimanic in Ann Coulter in the west, or the
          Luciferic/Ahrimanic in Karl Rove and the dominating Ahrimanic in
          Dick Cheney, slowly allows each human being a chance to measure
          ourselves and our own compromises. For the reason for this schooling
          isn't to accuse others of anything, but rather to be very conscious
          of our own mixed bag of tricks, operative at all times and all
          places.

          Locating the high moral ground of where the Etheric Christ reality
          supports childhood, supports the etheric memory tableau of human
          striving, ages, Manvantaras and the entire Occult Science an Outline
          is where true science, not big bang nonsense or even carbon dating
          arises with clarity. Christ is in the very models of soul and spirit
          and in the very weaving forces that objectively hold the whole model
          of the human up to the light. And in that light of course weave the
          Ahrimanic and Luciferic in us and they are part of the whole needed
          reality in human endeavor. Christ and the Etheric Christ lives fully
          in the entire superstructure and intimacies of the model that our I
          AM is made of. What is clarity and what does a student of Spiritual
          Science encounter?

          Firstly we do encounter in ourselves and in the world the icy
          coldness of intellectual soul lies, (that is that we also can
          clearly locate one of the NINE not merely the SEVENFOLD forces of
          the micro I AM system, and this micro I AM system is a mini
          Manvantara, with one of the layers of soul in the term, INTELLECTUAL
          SOUL) and the general tendency of Lucifer to get stoned, get high
          and preserve the field of sexual Venusian mysteries, at least what
          we have termed here on Earth, Venusian mysteries. These mysteries of
          love have to do with Aphrodite Mysteries and fallen porn or awakened
          higher love, and the love of Freya or Good Friday or higher Love
          mysteries. These pertain literally to Dove mysteries. For it is true
          that earthy and good sex, sensual love and the entire endocrine
          system in the human being, is what we clearly and solidly understand
          when Christian Rosenkreuz saw Venus naked in "The Chymical Wedding
          of Christian Rosenkreuz". I can only suggest you do your research
          and do catch up to true science or work out specific questions.
          Everyone will still balk, resist, refuse due to their own etheric
          and astral squirming, to find other answers than Spiritual Science
          but it is in fact that Spiritual Science contains the Logos of the
          Etheric Christ thinking in it.

          But as I see it, GODOT, excuse me if I got your name wrong, it is so
          highly clear that stone, plant, animal and human stand there before
          your eyes and my eyes. That to produce the I Am from the Earth
          Manvantara ----- the ASTRAL body from the Old Moon Manvantara ------
          the ETHERIC BODY from the Sun evolution ------ and the physical body
          designed from ancient Saturn....When we clearly with scientific eyes
          look at the reality of these phases in, and pralayas that bring
          about the mix and phases on earth of mineral, plant, animal and
          human, there is no way not to see that the mineral has no etheric,
          that the plant has no astral body, (externalized in the insect
          kingdom) and the animal has no I AM or individualized thinking and
          memory capacity. People have to shake themselves out of their
          stupidity and bad education to grasp the clarity of this before our
          eyes. And it is expected that refusal, disbelief and inability to
          think because of subjective educational issues and subjective souls
          issues will continue to obstruct and block The Etheric Christ
          Sciences.

          But to overcome some of the lumbering aspects of the science of the
          Earth I AM system, we resort to how the Stars, not the big bang,
          which is utterly a stupid idea to imply that this all emerged as a
          bomb of chaos and haphazard EVOLUTION, really begs the question of
          what do you think Intelligent Design implies?

          According to Fundamentalism, Intelligent design is linked to
          Biblical Fundamentalism, creationism of 7 days of creation. Nonsense
          again!!! Theosophy was always closer to the understanding of
          Intelligent Design, but now we have to understand why certain
          Ahrimanic forces would insert the name INTELLIGENT DESIGN, which
          should apply to anything that Occult Science an Outline delivers,
          steal the term, and apply this to Fundamental Biblical Creationism.
          Creationism is Biblical reductionism. Creationism arises from what
          we in the west term the Cliff Notes for the dull and stupid, to
          include some facts...such as SEVEN DAYS. Then we come to what is
          this Seven and the Rainbow that Newton and Goethe argued over? And
          what does Light and what Steve Hale brought, light measured at
          186,000 miles pers second, have to do with our understanding of 24
          hour days and the lofty Elohim or Time jumping in the I AM. In other
          words is the model of a human, an angel an Archangel as well as
          animal, plant and stone, within the model of the whole family of
          MAN? Duh, it is!!!!!

          But because we are not children, the Ahrimanic and Luciferic have
          striven to retain these childish ideas and resist the Pauline
          Schooling of "When I was a Child, I read Biblical fairy tales that
          were way, way, way over my head," but gave little effort into
          understanding from Theosophy or Anthroposophy what is truly the
          meaning of INTELLIGENT DESIGN. Now we cannot use the word
          Intelligent Design because it was hyjacked by Luciferic church going
          ding-bats to be taught with utter LITERALISM and brainwashing to
          children.

          Meanwhile all that has brought about the new Etheric Christ
          education that fills the gap of old peasant wisdom in the previous
          Waldorf and Education thread, means that the vast Etheric Christ
          contains the cohesion of the Etheric thinking field of the organized
          unfolding system from far back and beyond our human insertion all
          the way to the present. Hijacking the term intelligent design makes
          Ahriman happy for it locks out real thinking. Those folks who are
          quietly serving Luciferic and Ahrimanic aims, don't even create the
          opportunity to really understand what Intelligent Design would mean.
          It traps these others in what we term the Sentient Soul corruption
          where Lucifer remains trapped in the giddy region of Sin, Sex and
          guilt of the old church values. Such dull and clunky thinking also
          serves the educational clumsiness of the Intellectual Soul which
          fuels every university and fuels as well the stupidity of our
          current political process.

          So then you ask about Amoeba and contra Manu it is a can of worms
          which each and everyone of us are required to unravel or else. Today
          we have stars over our heads. The reality is that the complex math
          configurations and gateway to the stars are part of the Angelic
          field operations of how each child is given a twelvefold, twelve
          pairs of cranial nerves that supplies the insertion of the spirit
          germ into the birth of the physical child and gives this child a
          star compass, an actual star compass in their grey matter and within
          the mathematical dead zone of the great Stars above us. This vast
          idea must be digested and that requires serious work. The Great
          Stars above us are part of the micro model of the great stars within
          us, that the Angelic community oversees when it helps to insert a
          human into the stream of TIME. Again, most exciting research that
          all begins to make sense, so that spiritual science students no
          longer have to entertain nonsense and bullshit as educational
          excuses for their failures to explain these insights. There is no
          excuse for us to not go about unraveling these mysteries.

          So imagine the stupidity of skipping over how Zarathustra planned
          his incarnation from Chaldea with the result of the Three Kings and
          the Jesus Deed. Imagine how we don't consider Jesus some visiting
          Avatar at all. The Christ Being Himself and every detail of His
          union with a Human, reflects the fact that the Human is made in the
          model of our elder brothers the gods.

          Zarathustra the Persian and Chaldea Initiate transended and worked
          way outside the Star field and worked directly with planning on how
          to insert himself into the Hebrew people so that Christ could ignite
          Himself within the Etheric and Ethnic forces of warmth within the
          Hebrew people and use that warmed iron rich blood to dive into the
          bones of Spirit Man. The planning and the star mastery that
          Zarathustra showed so dwarfs the dim bulbed science fiction of
          sending ourselves in little spaceships to Mars via fully failed NASA
          thinking. Or by looking directly into our own human system and
          dealing with the fact of our having a strong Mars force within us.
          Or the third option, is following the movements of Mars and
          understanding that we invaded Iraq and went hyper war mode when Mars
          was the closest to the Earth in som thousands of years. We must
          account for the TWELVEFOLD cranial nerve package that we observe in
          individuals who take their karma down to Earth and resolve issues of
          destiny under Karma and star compass capacities that they bear. If
          you don't understand these things about how the human nervous system
          and the 12 pairs of cranial nerves function as a thought and
          navigation tool for the birth date and birth of the child, you need
          to study more.

          These all reveal what? What do they reveal? They reveal that this
          Earth System, including the Stars above us, are fixed within the
          human cranial nerve package, known as our astral body, and within
          the Etheric Heart package of the human being. Therefore those stars
          out there and planets are part of the intimate human package. We
          grow this package of human capacities from the etheric heart of
          childhood to the astral heart to the mature and ripened I AM heart,
          the heart that is developed and was developed in Zarathustra/Jesus
          by age 30.

          The human being journeys out and expands out to the stars at death
          and shrinks and carries his star compass with him into Time as he is
          born into a physical form on Earth. To conclude, the mineral cannot
          say that; the plant cannot say that; the animal can partly say that;
          but to the human being, we are the Stars and we carry the Stars and
          we carry the entire Etheric Memory, that is carried now by the
          Etheric Christ and the Etheric Christ Event which we date at its
          strongest point of entry, Feb 27, 1933. The Etheric memory of
          Saturn, Sun, Old Moon, Earth evolution as the foundations of His
          Being....Now that is Science, anything short of that is chaotic
          nonsense taught everywhere on this planet and has to be sorted out
          by intelligent people. All we need is a few intelligent people.
          Luckily Spiritual Science calls forth intelligent people.

          And in every detail from animal to stone, to plant, we can look
          directly into the etheric cohesion and vast memory field as well as
          the individual memory tableau released at death, and we can find
          this etheric life and Light in the plant chemical digestion of light
          and the human blood's digestion of thought, light, life and and the
          so called qualities of light that appear in the thought world and
          enter the blood, when we consider Luciferic thought and Luciferic
          Light, Christ Etheric Light and Ahrimanic intellectual soul cunning
          and electricity and nerve light. This we do in His Name when we
          consider different qualities and effects of different types of Soul
          Light.

          Steiner had the great good fortune to travel with a true Paracelsus,
          herbalist who met him on a train, (later included as Felix and
          Felcita Balde in The Mystery Dramas) and the links to earth sciences
          awoke and were coaxed forward so that Steiner could understand the
          intimate organization of nature and bring his vision in line with
          reality. And that is the process, we all must do. Bring our sight in
          line with reality. I started out with Culpepper and Paracelsus with
          a small herb book in my hand comparing each tiny flower citizen. But
          I am nothing on the path. Steiner had already developed such
          powerful organizational logic fields in previous incarnations that
          when he incarnated with his gifted young sight, Steiner needed to
          anchor this sight deeply into the kingdom of Nature and that is why
          he met the Herbalist.

          We can approach Spiritual Science from any particular angle and it
          will make sense, but we also have to do particular extensive
          monitoring our flaws and soul diversion escapades that are stirred
          up just because we are encounter the solution to a thousand human
          riddles because of the Etheric Christ Event in our thinking.
        • carol
          The original post reminded me of reading about the eigth sphere in a lecture series called: Occult Movements in the 19th Century ; the french translation is
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 2, 2006
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            The original post reminded me of reading about "the eigth sphere" in
            a lecture series called:
            "Occult Movements in the 19th Century"; the french translation
            is `Les dangers d'un occultisme matérialiste' which you probably can
            decipher meaning: the dangers of materialistic occultism. Does
            anyone want to comment on this?
            >
            > Bradford responds;
            >
            > I enjoyed some of your recent descriptions of New Age Lucifer and
            > Ahriman offshoots. Gradually the student of spiritual science
            learns
            > how to look at the various predominating soul forces, Michael
            > Jackson makes a very good study in Luciferic tendencies, yet, the
            > stinging luciferic/ahrimanic in Ann Coulter in the west, or the
            > Luciferic/Ahrimanic in Karl Rove and the dominating Ahrimanic in
            > Dick Cheney, slowly allows each human being a chance to measure
            > ourselves and our own compromises. For the reason for this
            schooling
            > isn't to accuse others of anything, but rather to be very
            conscious
            > of our own mixed bag of tricks, operative at all times and all
            > places.
            >
            > Locating the high moral ground of where the Etheric Christ reality
            > supports childhood, supports the etheric memory tableau of human
            > striving, ages, Manvantaras and the entire Occult Science an
            Outline
            > is where true science, not big bang nonsense or even carbon dating
            > arises with clarity. Christ is in the very models of soul and
            spirit
            > and in the very weaving forces that objectively hold the whole
            model
            > of the human up to the light. And in that light of course weave
            the
            > Ahrimanic and Luciferic in us and they are part of the whole
            needed
            > reality in human endeavor. Christ and the Etheric Christ lives
            fully
            > in the entire superstructure and intimacies of the model that our
            I
            > AM is made of. What is clarity and what does a student of
            Spiritual
            > Science encounter?
            >
            > Firstly we do encounter in ourselves and in the world the icy
            > coldness of intellectual soul lies, (that is that we also can
            > clearly locate one of the NINE not merely the SEVENFOLD forces of
            > the micro I AM system, and this micro I AM system is a mini
            > Manvantara, with one of the layers of soul in the term,
            INTELLECTUAL
            > SOUL) and the general tendency of Lucifer to get stoned, get high
            > and preserve the field of sexual Venusian mysteries, at least what
            > we have termed here on Earth, Venusian mysteries. These mysteries
            of
            > love have to do with Aphrodite Mysteries and fallen porn or
            awakened
            > higher love, and the love of Freya or Good Friday or higher Love
            > mysteries. These pertain literally to Dove mysteries. For it is
            true
            > that earthy and good sex, sensual love and the entire endocrine
            > system in the human being, is what we clearly and solidly
            understand
            > when Christian Rosenkreuz saw Venus naked in "The Chymical Wedding
            > of Christian Rosenkreuz". I can only suggest you do your research
            > and do catch up to true science or work out specific questions.
            > Everyone will still balk, resist, refuse due to their own etheric
            > and astral squirming, to find other answers than Spiritual Science
            > but it is in fact that Spiritual Science contains the Logos of the
            > Etheric Christ thinking in it.
            >
            > But as I see it, GODOT, excuse me if I got your name wrong, it is
            so
            > highly clear that stone, plant, animal and human stand there
            before
            > your eyes and my eyes. That to produce the I Am from the Earth
            > Manvantara ----- the ASTRAL body from the Old Moon Manvantara -----
            -
            > the ETHERIC BODY from the Sun evolution ------ and the physical
            body
            > designed from ancient Saturn....When we clearly with scientific
            eyes
            > look at the reality of these phases in, and pralayas that bring
            > about the mix and phases on earth of mineral, plant, animal and
            > human, there is no way not to see that the mineral has no etheric,
            > that the plant has no astral body, (externalized in the insect
            > kingdom) and the animal has no I AM or individualized thinking and
            > memory capacity. People have to shake themselves out of their
            > stupidity and bad education to grasp the clarity of this before
            our
            > eyes. And it is expected that refusal, disbelief and inability to
            > think because of subjective educational issues and subjective
            souls
            > issues will continue to obstruct and block The Etheric Christ
            > Sciences.
            >
            > But to overcome some of the lumbering aspects of the science of
            the
            > Earth I AM system, we resort to how the Stars, not the big bang,
            > which is utterly a stupid idea to imply that this all emerged as a
            > bomb of chaos and haphazard EVOLUTION, really begs the question of
            > what do you think Intelligent Design implies?
            >
            > According to Fundamentalism, Intelligent design is linked to
            > Biblical Fundamentalism, creationism of 7 days of creation.
            Nonsense
            > again!!! Theosophy was always closer to the understanding of
            > Intelligent Design, but now we have to understand why certain
            > Ahrimanic forces would insert the name INTELLIGENT DESIGN, which
            > should apply to anything that Occult Science an Outline delivers,
            > steal the term, and apply this to Fundamental Biblical
            Creationism.
            > Creationism is Biblical reductionism. Creationism arises from what
            > we in the west term the Cliff Notes for the dull and stupid, to
            > include some facts...such as SEVEN DAYS. Then we come to what is
            > this Seven and the Rainbow that Newton and Goethe argued over? And
            > what does Light and what Steve Hale brought, light measured at
            > 186,000 miles pers second, have to do with our understanding of 24
            > hour days and the lofty Elohim or Time jumping in the I AM. In
            other
            > words is the model of a human, an angel an Archangel as well as
            > animal, plant and stone, within the model of the whole family of
            > MAN? Duh, it is!!!!!
            >
            > But because we are not children, the Ahrimanic and Luciferic have
            > striven to retain these childish ideas and resist the Pauline
            > Schooling of "When I was a Child, I read Biblical fairy tales that
            > were way, way, way over my head," but gave little effort into
            > understanding from Theosophy or Anthroposophy what is truly the
            > meaning of INTELLIGENT DESIGN. Now we cannot use the word
            > Intelligent Design because it was hyjacked by Luciferic church
            going
            > ding-bats to be taught with utter LITERALISM and brainwashing to
            > children.
            >
            > Meanwhile all that has brought about the new Etheric Christ
            > education that fills the gap of old peasant wisdom in the previous
            > Waldorf and Education thread, means that the vast Etheric Christ
            > contains the cohesion of the Etheric thinking field of the
            organized
            > unfolding system from far back and beyond our human insertion all
            > the way to the present. Hijacking the term intelligent design
            makes
            > Ahriman happy for it locks out real thinking. Those folks who are
            > quietly serving Luciferic and Ahrimanic aims, don't even create
            the
            > opportunity to really understand what Intelligent Design would
            mean.
            > It traps these others in what we term the Sentient Soul corruption
            > where Lucifer remains trapped in the giddy region of Sin, Sex and
            > guilt of the old church values. Such dull and clunky thinking also
            > serves the educational clumsiness of the Intellectual Soul which
            > fuels every university and fuels as well the stupidity of our
            > current political process.
            >
            > So then you ask about Amoeba and contra Manu it is a can of worms
            > which each and everyone of us are required to unravel or else.
            Today
            > we have stars over our heads. The reality is that the complex math
            > configurations and gateway to the stars are part of the Angelic
            > field operations of how each child is given a twelvefold, twelve
            > pairs of cranial nerves that supplies the insertion of the spirit
            > germ into the birth of the physical child and gives this child a
            > star compass, an actual star compass in their grey matter and
            within
            > the mathematical dead zone of the great Stars above us. This vast
            > idea must be digested and that requires serious work. The Great
            > Stars above us are part of the micro model of the great stars
            within
            > us, that the Angelic community oversees when it helps to insert a
            > human into the stream of TIME. Again, most exciting research that
            > all begins to make sense, so that spiritual science students no
            > longer have to entertain nonsense and bullshit as educational
            > excuses for their failures to explain these insights. There is no
            > excuse for us to not go about unraveling these mysteries.
            >
            > So imagine the stupidity of skipping over how Zarathustra planned
            > his incarnation from Chaldea with the result of the Three Kings
            and
            > the Jesus Deed. Imagine how we don't consider Jesus some visiting
            > Avatar at all. The Christ Being Himself and every detail of His
            > union with a Human, reflects the fact that the Human is made in
            the
            > model of our elder brothers the gods.
            >
            > Zarathustra the Persian and Chaldea Initiate transended and worked
            > way outside the Star field and worked directly with planning on
            how
            > to insert himself into the Hebrew people so that Christ could
            ignite
            > Himself within the Etheric and Ethnic forces of warmth within the
            > Hebrew people and use that warmed iron rich blood to dive into the
            > bones of Spirit Man. The planning and the star mastery that
            > Zarathustra showed so dwarfs the dim bulbed science fiction of
            > sending ourselves in little spaceships to Mars via fully failed
            NASA
            > thinking. Or by looking directly into our own human system and
            > dealing with the fact of our having a strong Mars force within us.
            > Or the third option, is following the movements of Mars and
            > understanding that we invaded Iraq and went hyper war mode when
            Mars
            > was the closest to the Earth in som thousands of years. We must
            > account for the TWELVEFOLD cranial nerve package that we observe
            in
            > individuals who take their karma down to Earth and resolve issues
            of
            > destiny under Karma and star compass capacities that they bear. If
            > you don't understand these things about how the human nervous
            system
            > and the 12 pairs of cranial nerves function as a thought and
            > navigation tool for the birth date and birth of the child, you
            need
            > to study more.
            >
            > These all reveal what? What do they reveal? They reveal that this
            > Earth System, including the Stars above us, are fixed within the
            > human cranial nerve package, known as our astral body, and within
            > the Etheric Heart package of the human being. Therefore those
            stars
            > out there and planets are part of the intimate human package. We
            > grow this package of human capacities from the etheric heart of
            > childhood to the astral heart to the mature and ripened I AM
            heart,
            > the heart that is developed and was developed in Zarathustra/Jesus
            > by age 30.
            >
            > The human being journeys out and expands out to the stars at death
            > and shrinks and carries his star compass with him into Time as he
            is
            > born into a physical form on Earth. To conclude, the mineral
            cannot
            > say that; the plant cannot say that; the animal can partly say
            that;
            > but to the human being, we are the Stars and we carry the Stars
            and
            > we carry the entire Etheric Memory, that is carried now by the
            > Etheric Christ and the Etheric Christ Event which we date at its
            > strongest point of entry, Feb 27, 1933. The Etheric memory of
            > Saturn, Sun, Old Moon, Earth evolution as the foundations of His
            > Being....Now that is Science, anything short of that is chaotic
            > nonsense taught everywhere on this planet and has to be sorted out
            > by intelligent people. All we need is a few intelligent people.
            > Luckily Spiritual Science calls forth intelligent people.
            >
            > And in every detail from animal to stone, to plant, we can look
            > directly into the etheric cohesion and vast memory field as well
            as
            > the individual memory tableau released at death, and we can find
            > this etheric life and Light in the plant chemical digestion of
            light
            > and the human blood's digestion of thought, light, life and and
            the
            > so called qualities of light that appear in the thought world and
            > enter the blood, when we consider Luciferic thought and Luciferic
            > Light, Christ Etheric Light and Ahrimanic intellectual soul
            cunning
            > and electricity and nerve light. This we do in His Name when we
            > consider different qualities and effects of different types of
            Soul
            > Light.
            >
            > Steiner had the great good fortune to travel with a true
            Paracelsus,
            > herbalist who met him on a train, (later included as Felix and
            > Felcita Balde in The Mystery Dramas) and the links to earth
            sciences
            > awoke and were coaxed forward so that Steiner could understand the
            > intimate organization of nature and bring his vision in line with
            > reality. And that is the process, we all must do. Bring our sight
            in
            > line with reality. I started out with Culpepper and Paracelsus
            with
            > a small herb book in my hand comparing each tiny flower citizen.
            But
            > I am nothing on the path. Steiner had already developed such
            > powerful organizational logic fields in previous incarnations that
            > when he incarnated with his gifted young sight, Steiner needed to
            > anchor this sight deeply into the kingdom of Nature and that is
            why
            > he met the Herbalist.
            >
            > We can approach Spiritual Science from any particular angle and it
            > will make sense, but we also have to do particular extensive
            > monitoring our flaws and soul diversion escapades that are stirred
            > up just because we are encounter the solution to a thousand human
            > riddles because of the Etheric Christ Event in our thinking.

            opetha wrote:
            >
            > "How can we--as anthroposophists and theosophists---reckon
            adequately
            > the testament of a world evolving from rare spirit into dense
            matter
            > over seven Manvantaras with its almost spontaneous sets of races,
            > when we have sedementary records, radio isotopics and and almost
            > empirically-excepted law of natural selection and the big-bang?
            >
            > I know that a very dry scientist cannot glimpse into such astral-
            > phenomena, spreading and belittling the evolutionists time-span as
            it
            > does, but then so many fossil records justify environmental-
            > adaptation in the species---though I'm not sure how bona fide the
            > Hadean Earth theory is. . . .
            >
            > Is there some paradox we are not getting? that TIME itself has been
            > changing too, maybe with a spiritual Earth not only falling into
            > matter, but also into TIME, at point x, where history spans that
            way
            > and the future this? "
            >

            >
          • Valerie Walsh
            ... The original post and parts of Bradford s response reminded me fundamentally of Hal s Bar and Grill , the French translation being, I believe, La barre de
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 2, 2006
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              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > The original post reminded me of reading about "the eigth sphere" in
              > a lecture series called:
              > "Occult Movements in the 19th Century"; the french translation
              > is `Les dangers d'un occultisme matérialiste' which you probably can
              > decipher meaning: the dangers of materialistic occultism. Does
              > anyone want to comment on this?

              The original post and parts of Bradford's response reminded me
              fundamentally of "Hal's Bar and Grill", the French translation being, I
              believe, La barre de Hal et grille.-Val
            • Steve Hale
              ... in ... can ... The logistics of the moon and the eighth sphere is described in Steiner s lecture course, The Occult Movement in the Nineteenth Century ,
              Message 6 of 30 , Oct 2, 2006
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                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...>
                wrote:
                >
                >
                > The original post reminded me of reading about "the eigth sphere"
                in
                > a lecture series called:
                > "Occult Movements in the 19th Century"; the french translation
                > is `Les dangers d'un occultisme matérialiste' which you probably
                can
                > decipher meaning: the dangers of materialistic occultism. Does
                > anyone want to comment on this?

                The logistics of the moon and "the eighth sphere" is described in
                Steiner's lecture course, "The Occult Movement in the Nineteenth
                Century", given October 10-25 of 1915. Herein is described the
                entire basis and rationale for the creation of the eighth sphere; to
                provide a counter-balance to the unmineralized physical (Jehovian)
                moon, which has given its mineral content over to the earth in the
                Lemurian epoch. This was done in order for the physical-mineral
                constitution of the earth to commence as the basis for man's dense
                three-fold embodiment required to receive the Ego. Because Jehova
                remained on the moon rather than departing with the six other Sun
                Spirits at the end of the Moon sphere of evolution, it became
                possible for the Astral Body to receive an acceleration of its
                archetypal development on the moon, while Jehova planted the seed of
                the Ego during sleep consciousness for its subsequent development on
                earth; at the beginning of our earth sphere, rather than at the end,
                as originally planned.

                Thus, in order to counteract the strong, and detrimental tendencies
                that would have prevailed for human evolution on earth, i.e., 1) the
                perpetuation of the old imaginative-visionary clairvoyance of the
                moon; and, 2) the full development of the human astral body in
                advance of the ego's proper development on earth, the eighth sphere
                was set up to mitigate these influences. Thus the eighth sphere is a
                completely mechancial contrivance that has been formed out of
                mineral substance meant for the earth; sequestered, so to speak, by
                Lucifer and Ahriman, and re-supplied to what was to be the etheric
                husk of the old moon. Because the physical and luminescent Jehovian
                moon was guarded against receiving back any of its original mineral
                nature, it had to be given to this 'spectral' sphere.

                As more and more mineral substance has gone to the eight sphere over
                the course of maybe, 40,000 years since that point in the Lemurian
                epoch when the mineral kingdom passed over to the earth, this sphere
                has taken on rotational characteristics around the fixed and
                luminous physical moon. It has the effect of acting as a shroud,
                which is mistaken for being the phases of the moon.

                Steve
              • opetha
                Bradford/Holderlin, Many thanks for your lengthy and impassioned account, it s more than appreciated. You sound like one very concerned about spiritual truths
                Message 7 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
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                  Bradford/Holderlin,

                  Many thanks for your lengthy and impassioned account, it's more than
                  appreciated. You sound like one very concerned about spiritual truths
                  for mankind.

                  My own school of thought, I have to admit, is more in the direction
                  of Carl Jung's Analytical Psychology and although I understand that
                  there are active spiritual forces both in and out of man, i am still
                  somewhat reticent in my own persnal life because of the whole nature
                  of astral phenomena being OBJECTIVE, and this entails a choice that
                  cannot be faked by the wrong type of Karmic placement (or Karmamarg).
                  And by this I understand that anything realized on the astral plane
                  or any higher spiritual world is a conditioned contrivance, though
                  with karma beneficence, of the aspirate. You more advanced
                  anthroposophists must know well that your first spiritual experiences
                  were not in SEEING etheric properties in plants and the macrocosm,
                  but in READING such personalities as Steinar, his magistry reaching
                  out of the page and giving new meaning to your earley lives. This was
                  a "pulling-in for you".

                  My tending toward Jung involves an empiric understanding of the
                  unconscious and complexes and a kind of palette that can paint
                  various pictures in our conscious sensation realms, and at that maybe
                  limited in colours. Jung always looked poorly on Steinar and the
                  theosophical movement because its consciousness was so developed that
                  it abandoned the unconscious and maybe saw this, as I maybe do also,
                  as an imbalance--hence I likened the anthroposophic movement as
                  LUCIFERIC--light, consciousness (your "ahrimanic"). Jung's other
                  discovery was the psychological types: THINKING, FEELING, INTUITION,
                  and SENSATION. Jung was very strict with word-designations and felt
                  they had to be etymologically-precise, which is different in
                  Anthroposophy, where they appear to this "phoneme-regressive"
                  unconscious theory as spurious and haphazard, Steinar would use
                  sensation and intuition as meaning different faculties than what Jung
                  would want as fundamental (for instance, a tarot reader calls their
                  psychic power "intuition" but Jung quite rightly distingiuishes
                  intuition as a language of the prophets and of the unconscious
                  symbols, whereas Tarot psychics would be THINKING (objective,
                  extraverted, conditioned , thinking). proper intuition would see the
                  tarot cards as archetypal substances, the Tarot card THE TOWER as the
                  same dream complexity as the penis ejaculating and flopping over,
                  whereas an advanced psychic would see a magic cloud over this card
                  that shows rather the thing it entails (timothy's rocket ship project
                  failing on Tuesday, rather than a guess based on the dream analogy).
                  So you see that the tarot psychic, as with a biased depth
                  psychologist, would never have recourse to glimpse the others meaning
                  behind their own personal word constructs, the psychic would have
                  frontal lobe or anja-chakra powers from an earley age that would make
                  them forsake the complexities of, say, Jung's empirical subjective
                  way.

                  And all these dispositions can only be based on karma, which is, even
                  in wooden psychology, a empirical and provable science. And this is
                  only provable is (for their sake) we abandon the whole notion (for
                  the time being) of spiritual energy from the planets (though you,
                  Bradford, and Steve Hale cannot do this) and reckon the idea of
                  synchroncity. This posits that the planet venus moving into my sign
                  of capricorn in astrology has no more spiritual and energic effect on
                  my love life any more than my love life has a spiritual and energic
                  effect that moves venus into Capricorn, because both are synchronized
                  and acausally connected. Two time lines---the ephemeris and my
                  biography---never cross but are parallel. Karma as horoscope symbols
                  are innate as unconscious complexes and project in my life onto
                  available affordances, whether badly placed planets as synchronistly
                  appearing as bad fortune, or goodly placed planets projecting in time
                  upon likeable things. And this circular horoscope, I'm sure we all
                  now agree, is the halo about the buddharupa, that mandala at the back
                  of His head. The planets on the periphery are the skandas (reigns)
                  which are charged by libido-interest (kama-desire). To destroy karma
                  and achieve moksha is to destroy all attachment to Karmic images,
                  even positive ones.

                  But just not to go of track, what I wanted to say was that in
                  Analytical Psychology to be of a spiritual disposition is to be of
                  one of the four(or eight) psychological types, namely the extraverted
                  THINKING type that Jung reduces to a type that often believes its
                  word conventions are a means an end and are easily doctrinable by
                  fancy playful language--and I only point this out to the
                  anthroposophical and magickal personality that it is likely on
                  certain terms only one arm of that cross which signifies atma-
                  wholeness, THINKING and FEELING are called the rational, positive
                  psyche's, with INTUITION and SENSATION as irrational and negative.
                  People born with good prarabhda Karma will most likely be of the
                  positive disposition and with bad prarabdha karma of the negative,
                  and this entails also an habitual introversion of libido or
                  extraversion.

                  We've all heard the saying "ignorance is bliss" and this is one of
                  the failings of the negative type (OK, myself included there) that
                  there IS a need for the rationality of the unconscious, the matrix of
                  innate and eternal ideas before they have affordances, and this is
                  the machine that the gnostics were interested in, the first religion
                  of Jesus, who some thought was of the dhamma. With blessed Karma the
                  available opportunies in the outside world, whether money, or
                  spiritual entities, are a magnet that pulls AWAY from the unconscious
                  systematics and therefore of conformative science.

                  Where you guys speak of Steinar having developed his powers through
                  many incarnations, I can only assume that he was once like Jung and
                  that his temperance had migrated him to a more positive and, shall we
                  say, matrically unconcerned mentality. That a spiritualist and
                  anthroposophist can not ask fundamental questions of the unconcious
                  matrix, or combat fundamental earth science adequatly, is because
                  they are blessed, by so many soul-journeys, with the reluctance of
                  the mother (dark/underneith) and the desire of the son (light/the
                  above). The two proper types of Christianity included romanticism
                  and "phallicism"--romanticism was the Ahrimanic (your "luciferic")
                  that had bad Karma and shirked away from the object for the hopeful
                  intuiton prayer, the sychronistic signs, and the love of the mother
                  (or mother complex), the "phallic" Christianity, was the positive
                  Karmic and love the object--the spiritual onject---and understood the
                  Christian word as having no fundamental science (hence theology as
                  unethical) and was a complete emersion in conscious wakeful light of
                  christ conconciousness, moksha by faith, St, Stephens unpoundable and
                  infinite love. Compare Tertulians simplicity to Orgen and the
                  gnostics's complexity, this is the whole squirmish that reduced pure
                  faith-consciousness to gnostic science, scholasticism, mdoern
                  philosphy and right down into depth psychology. Both, the romantic
                  and the phallic, are undertood as dualities where God-atma (or I AM)
                  is the only unity, and the world exists of these opposites in Karma
                  the blest and the down-trodden, both wanting good but one unable to
                  commend with the anthroposophical teaching due to some Karmic
                  restraint.

                  Your voice, Bradford, and Mr Hale show the dispositions of the
                  THINKING types who have almost nominalistic word conventions, and you
                  are so sure of your teachings--which is a good thing---but maybe
                  (just maybe) have to consider how anthroposophy can become properly
                  a world "science" when it is so objective as to leave behind the
                  Karmically stunted scientist--like myself. Your style of speaking in
                  its surety with such physics is exactly the same as Barbara Hand Clow
                  who speaks like-lucidly and non-fundamentally, but with a whole
                  different spiritual law; that we have evolved from lizzards, the the
                  annunaki on the planet nibiru gave the jews uranium commandment stone
                  to take over are minds, and that the mayan-immigrant spirits in the
                  Pleiades will nourish our world with spiritual light in AD 2012. All
                  this with first hand, psychic contact. Her world exists, as does
                  yours, even the world of the man who OBJECTIVIZED that george Harrisn
                  on was a witch from the planet Neptune, but all without corners
                  touching.

                  So, it appears that the whole of the spiritual world is objective and
                  creatable, depending on what palette we have in our unconscious. When
                  you die I;m sure you will go to devachan, and that a Christian will
                  go to paradise and a Tibetan will see all those astral things from
                  the BARDO THROTROL, but these are not things for fundamental science,
                  are they. My excellerated consciousness will CREATE a objective abode
                  for my spiritual actions--pure kreyamena Karma.

                  The life journey is one from deep sleep in the watery womb to high
                  consciousness in the akash. The infallibility of mankind is that they
                  get caught halfway, the libido cannot migrate so well to
                  consciousness with Karmic complexes (the palette) in the unconscious,
                  when consciousness is venerated completely the umbilical coard from
                  the unconcious matrix is cut and, the light/libido dwelling in
                  enlightened consciousness in its entirety, the unconscious is not
                  only not needed anymore, but denied existance, hence this dipsute I
                  claim about etymologically fundamental word conventions of Jung, but
                  not of Steinar (LUCIFER = light = positive = future, AHRIMAN = dark =
                  negative = past. . . .). The akash of devachan or the "otherside" is
                  one without the unconscious. We are here "as the angels of Heaven, no
                  longer given in marriage" because we lose are genetic Karma, even our
                  sanchita Karma which is of a greater race cycle (also I could allude
                  to jesus's disowning his mother and brothers--no longer the simple
                  Jew---but EVERY MAN...and even Steinars remark that in Christ
                  consciousness only the body sleeps whilst the mind goes into the
                  macrocosm).

                  But I hope you understand my language in that I have taken up to
                  understand yours, and also what I mean by meeting me halfway is along
                  that arm of the cross where you be THINKING (into the heights)--good
                  Karma through development--and I be INTUITION (tuition of the depth)
                  by bad Karma, because these are the types that make up the whole of
                  mankind that we are trying to so erroneously influence.

                  I think that in the next life I will have better prarabdha Karma,
                  more libido/light in consciousness, that will forsake my mother (the
                  unconscious), where "ignorance is bliss" and I can formulate on the
                  astral plane the etheric realms, but now, I am not ignorant enough to
                  CHOOSE between Anthroposophy, Thelema, Pleiadeanism, or any other
                  woven reality, because I was made to love sacrifice.

                  But let us love one-another.

                  Godo.













                  >
                  > Bradford responds;
                  >
                  > I enjoyed some of your recent descriptions of New Age Lucifer and
                  > Ahriman offshoots. Gradually the student of spiritual science
                  learns
                  > how to look at the various predominating soul forces, Michael
                  > Jackson makes a very good study in Luciferic tendencies, yet, the
                  > stinging luciferic/ahrimanic in Ann Coulter in the west, or the
                  > Luciferic/Ahrimanic in Karl Rove and the dominating Ahrimanic in
                  > Dick Cheney, slowly allows each human being a chance to measure
                  > ourselves and our own compromises. For the reason for this
                  schooling
                  > isn't to accuse others of anything, but rather to be very conscious
                  > of our own mixed bag of tricks, operative at all times and all
                  > places.
                  >
                  > Locating the high moral ground of where the Etheric Christ reality
                  > supports childhood, supports the etheric memory tableau of human
                  > striving, ages, Manvantaras and the entire Occult Science an
                  Outline
                  > is where true science, not big bang nonsense or even carbon dating
                  > arises with clarity. Christ is in the very models of soul and
                  spirit
                  > and in the very weaving forces that objectively hold the whole
                  model
                  > of the human up to the light. And in that light of course weave the
                  > Ahrimanic and Luciferic in us and they are part of the whole needed
                  > reality in human endeavor. Christ and the Etheric Christ lives
                  fully
                  > in the entire superstructure and intimacies of the model that our I
                  > AM is made of. What is clarity and what does a student of Spiritual
                  > Science encounter?
                  >
                  > Firstly we do encounter in ourselves and in the world the icy
                  > coldness of intellectual soul lies, (that is that we also can
                  > clearly locate one of the NINE not merely the SEVENFOLD forces of
                  > the micro I AM system, and this micro I AM system is a mini
                  > Manvantara, with one of the layers of soul in the term,
                  INTELLECTUAL
                  > SOUL) and the general tendency of Lucifer to get stoned, get high
                  > and preserve the field of sexual Venusian mysteries, at least what
                  > we have termed here on Earth, Venusian mysteries. These mysteries
                  of
                  > love have to do with Aphrodite Mysteries and fallen porn or
                  awakened
                  > higher love, and the love of Freya or Good Friday or higher Love
                  > mysteries. These pertain literally to Dove mysteries. For it is
                  true
                  > that earthy and good sex, sensual love and the entire endocrine
                  > system in the human being, is what we clearly and solidly
                  understand
                  > when Christian Rosenkreuz saw Venus naked in "The Chymical Wedding
                  > of Christian Rosenkreuz". I can only suggest you do your research
                  > and do catch up to true science or work out specific questions.
                  > Everyone will still balk, resist, refuse due to their own etheric
                  > and astral squirming, to find other answers than Spiritual Science
                  > but it is in fact that Spiritual Science contains the Logos of the
                  > Etheric Christ thinking in it.
                  >
                  > But as I see it, GODOT, excuse me if I got your name wrong, it is
                  so
                  > highly clear that stone, plant, animal and human stand there before
                  > your eyes and my eyes. That to produce the I Am from the Earth
                  > Manvantara ----- the ASTRAL body from the Old Moon Manvantara ------

                  > the ETHERIC BODY from the Sun evolution ------ and the physical
                  body
                  > designed from ancient Saturn....When we clearly with scientific
                  eyes
                  > look at the reality of these phases in, and pralayas that bring
                  > about the mix and phases on earth of mineral, plant, animal and
                  > human, there is no way not to see that the mineral has no etheric,
                  > that the plant has no astral body, (externalized in the insect
                  > kingdom) and the animal has no I AM or individualized thinking and
                  > memory capacity. People have to shake themselves out of their
                  > stupidity and bad education to grasp the clarity of this before our
                  > eyes. And it is expected that refusal, disbelief and inability to
                  > think because of subjective educational issues and subjective souls
                  > issues will continue to obstruct and block The Etheric Christ
                  > Sciences.
                  >
                  > But to overcome some of the lumbering aspects of the science of the
                  > Earth I AM system, we resort to how the Stars, not the big bang,
                  > which is utterly a stupid idea to imply that this all emerged as a
                  > bomb of chaos and haphazard EVOLUTION, really begs the question of
                  > what do you think Intelligent Design implies?
                  >
                  > According to Fundamentalism, Intelligent design is linked to
                  > Biblical Fundamentalism, creationism of 7 days of creation.
                  Nonsense
                  > again!!! Theosophy was always closer to the understanding of
                  > Intelligent Design, but now we have to understand why certain
                  > Ahrimanic forces would insert the name INTELLIGENT DESIGN, which
                  > should apply to anything that Occult Science an Outline delivers,
                  > steal the term, and apply this to Fundamental Biblical Creationism.
                  > Creationism is Biblical reductionism. Creationism arises from what
                  > we in the west term the Cliff Notes for the dull and stupid, to
                  > include some facts...such as SEVEN DAYS. Then we come to what is
                  > this Seven and the Rainbow that Newton and Goethe argued over? And
                  > what does Light and what Steve Hale brought, light measured at
                  > 186,000 miles pers second, have to do with our understanding of 24
                  > hour days and the lofty Elohim or Time jumping in the I AM. In
                  other
                  > words is the model of a human, an angel an Archangel as well as
                  > animal, plant and stone, within the model of the whole family of
                  > MAN? Duh, it is!!!!!
                  >
                  > But because we are not children, the Ahrimanic and Luciferic have
                  > striven to retain these childish ideas and resist the Pauline
                  > Schooling of "When I was a Child, I read Biblical fairy tales that
                  > were way, way, way over my head," but gave little effort into
                  > understanding from Theosophy or Anthroposophy what is truly the
                  > meaning of INTELLIGENT DESIGN. Now we cannot use the word
                  > Intelligent Design because it was hyjacked by Luciferic church
                  going
                  > ding-bats to be taught with utter LITERALISM and brainwashing to
                  > children.
                  >
                  > Meanwhile all that has brought about the new Etheric Christ
                  > education that fills the gap of old peasant wisdom in the previous
                  > Waldorf and Education thread, means that the vast Etheric Christ
                  > contains the cohesion of the Etheric thinking field of the
                  organized
                  > unfolding system from far back and beyond our human insertion all
                  > the way to the present. Hijacking the term intelligent design makes
                  > Ahriman happy for it locks out real thinking. Those folks who are
                  > quietly serving Luciferic and Ahrimanic aims, don't even create the
                  > opportunity to really understand what Intelligent Design would
                  mean.
                  > It traps these others in what we term the Sentient Soul corruption
                  > where Lucifer remains trapped in the giddy region of Sin, Sex and
                  > guilt of the old church values. Such dull and clunky thinking also
                  > serves the educational clumsiness of the Intellectual Soul which
                  > fuels every university and fuels as well the stupidity of our
                  > current political process.
                  >
                  > So then you ask about Amoeba and contra Manu it is a can of worms
                  > which each and everyone of us are required to unravel or else.
                  Today
                  > we have stars over our heads. The reality is that the complex math
                  > configurations and gateway to the stars are part of the Angelic
                  > field operations of how each child is given a twelvefold, twelve
                  > pairs of cranial nerves that supplies the insertion of the spirit
                  > germ into the birth of the physical child and gives this child a
                  > star compass, an actual star compass in their grey matter and
                  within
                  > the mathematical dead zone of the great Stars above us. This vast
                  > idea must be digested and that requires serious work. The Great
                  > Stars above us are part of the micro model of the great stars
                  within
                  > us, that the Angelic community oversees when it helps to insert a
                  > human into the stream of TIME. Again, most exciting research that
                  > all begins to make sense, so that spiritual science students no
                  > longer have to entertain nonsense and bullshit as educational
                  > excuses for their failures to explain these insights. There is no
                  > excuse for us to not go about unraveling these mysteries.
                  >
                  > So imagine the stupidity of skipping over how Zarathustra planned
                  > his incarnation from Chaldea with the result of the Three Kings and
                  > the Jesus Deed. Imagine how we don't consider Jesus some visiting
                  > Avatar at all. The Christ Being Himself and every detail of His
                  > union with a Human, reflects the fact that the Human is made in the
                  > model of our elder brothers the gods.
                  >
                  > Zarathustra the Persian and Chaldea Initiate transended and worked
                  > way outside the Star field and worked directly with planning on how
                  > to insert himself into the Hebrew people so that Christ could
                  ignite
                  > Himself within the Etheric and Ethnic forces of warmth within the
                  > Hebrew people and use that warmed iron rich blood to dive into the
                  > bones of Spirit Man. The planning and the star mastery that
                  > Zarathustra showed so dwarfs the dim bulbed science fiction of
                  > sending ourselves in little spaceships to Mars via fully failed
                  NASA
                  > thinking. Or by looking directly into our own human system and
                  > dealing with the fact of our having a strong Mars force within us.
                  > Or the third option, is following the movements of Mars and
                  > understanding that we invaded Iraq and went hyper war mode when
                  Mars
                  > was the closest to the Earth in som thousands of years. We must
                  > account for the TWELVEFOLD cranial nerve package that we observe in
                  > individuals who take their karma down to Earth and resolve issues
                  of
                  > destiny under Karma and star compass capacities that they bear. If
                  > you don't understand these things about how the human nervous
                  system
                  > and the 12 pairs of cranial nerves function as a thought and
                  > navigation tool for the birth date and birth of the child, you need
                  > to study more.
                  >
                  > These all reveal what? What do they reveal? They reveal that this
                  > Earth System, including the Stars above us, are fixed within the
                  > human cranial nerve package, known as our astral body, and within
                  > the Etheric Heart package of the human being. Therefore those stars
                  > out there and planets are part of the intimate human package. We
                  > grow this package of human capacities from the etheric heart of
                  > childhood to the astral heart to the mature and ripened I AM heart,
                  > the heart that is developed and was developed in Zarathustra/Jesus
                  > by age 30.
                  >
                  > The human being journeys out and expands out to the stars at death
                  > and shrinks and carries his star compass with him into Time as he
                  is
                  > born into a physical form on Earth. To conclude, the mineral cannot
                  > say that; the plant cannot say that; the animal can partly say
                  that;
                  > but to the human being, we are the Stars and we carry the Stars and
                  > we carry the entire Etheric Memory, that is carried now by the
                  > Etheric Christ and the Etheric Christ Event which we date at its
                  > strongest point of entry, Feb 27, 1933. The Etheric memory of
                  > Saturn, Sun, Old Moon, Earth evolution as the foundations of His
                  > Being....Now that is Science, anything short of that is chaotic
                  > nonsense taught everywhere on this planet and has to be sorted out
                  > by intelligent people. All we need is a few intelligent people.
                  > Luckily Spiritual Science calls forth intelligent people.
                  >
                  > And in every detail from animal to stone, to plant, we can look
                  > directly into the etheric cohesion and vast memory field as well as
                  > the individual memory tableau released at death, and we can find
                  > this etheric life and Light in the plant chemical digestion of
                  light
                  > and the human blood's digestion of thought, light, life and and the
                  > so called qualities of light that appear in the thought world and
                  > enter the blood, when we consider Luciferic thought and Luciferic
                  > Light, Christ Etheric Light and Ahrimanic intellectual soul cunning
                  > and electricity and nerve light. This we do in His Name when we
                  > consider different qualities and effects of different types of Soul
                  > Light.
                  >
                  > Steiner had the great good fortune to travel with a true
                  Paracelsus,
                  > herbalist who met him on a train, (later included as Felix and
                  > Felcita Balde in The Mystery Dramas) and the links to earth
                  sciences
                  > awoke and were coaxed forward so that Steiner could understand the
                  > intimate organization of nature and bring his vision in line with
                  > reality. And that is the process, we all must do. Bring our sight
                  in
                  > line with reality. I started out with Culpepper and Paracelsus with
                  > a small herb book in my hand comparing each tiny flower citizen.
                  But
                  > I am nothing on the path. Steiner had already developed such
                  > powerful organizational logic fields in previous incarnations that
                  > when he incarnated with his gifted young sight, Steiner needed to
                  > anchor this sight deeply into the kingdom of Nature and that is why
                  > he met the Herbalist.
                  >
                  > We can approach Spiritual Science from any particular angle and it
                  > will make sense, but we also have to do particular extensive
                  > monitoring our flaws and soul diversion escapades that are stirred
                  > up just because we are encounter the solution to a thousand human
                  > riddles because of the Etheric Christ Event in our thinking.
                  >
                • holderlin66
                  opetha wrote: but maybe (just maybe) have to consider how anthroposophy can become properly a world science when it is so objective as to leave behind the
                  Message 8 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
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                    opetha wrote:

                    "but maybe
                    (just maybe) have to consider how anthroposophy can become properly
                    a world "science" when it is so objective as to leave behind the
                    Karmically stunted scientist--like myself. Your style of speaking in
                    its surety with such physics is exactly the same as Barbara Hand Clow
                    who speaks like-lucidly and non-fundamentally, but with a whole
                    different spiritual law; that we have evolved from lizzards, the the
                    annunaki on the planet nibiru gave the jews uranium commandment stone
                    to take over are minds, and that the mayan-immigrant spirits in the
                    Pleiades will nourish our world with spiritual light in AD 2012."

                    Bradford comments;

                    I know nothing about you, save how you approach your thought world.
                    I have written extensively on the subjects of how Freud, Jung and
                    Steiner form a whole and that whole takes it's start from the truths
                    that come from each of these three representative agents. The
                    problem you have that I don't have at present, is that I have
                    already accepted Jung as one of the phases of unfolding insight. But
                    let's review for you how reality, as opposed to the undiscerned,
                    goobly-gook of Lizards from the large and unseen but resonating
                    planet in our solar system, Nibiru can not in the least be compared
                    with any seekers compass for truth.

                    Don't expect to get some easy, anybody can make up any truth they
                    want and reality is a crap shoot, bullshit answer to life's riddles.
                    Freud has done wonders for the Mothering side of how the etheric
                    shadows of our blood relationships influence our ethnic and etheric
                    relations via what our mother's pass on to us. Freud represents a
                    chaotic but interesting Woody Allen version of how much our blood
                    and etheric developments can be crippled in our psychologies.

                    Jung has generalized the unconscious and Steiner has mapped the
                    unconscious. Jung made bold attempts to map the unconscious but for
                    his region of soul, Jung managed to prepare some interesting ground
                    work, particularly the anima and animus as already developed
                    Spiritual Science themes of the accurate etheric mirror in us. That
                    is what Emma Jung developed further, yet that is a theme that
                    Steiner had already mapped. Meaning clearly and literally that
                    opposite our physical sex, our etheric bodies carry an opposite
                    mirror of our physical bodies. Which meant that our etheric bodies
                    are male if we have a female physical body and our etheric bodies
                    are female if we have a male etheric body. There is fact you take
                    out of the Jungian scavenger hunt and replace back in the box of
                    Steiner Science where it belongs. Jungian psychology has advanced
                    many different aspects of soul and therefore we can give Jung a C-
                    for incohesive understanding of the astral and soul body.

                    So far we have Freud being an incomplete and fumbling version of how
                    the perspective of psychology arises from the etheric body connected
                    to our mothers which makes Woody Allen a bodhisattva of Freudian
                    psychology. Jungian psychology attempts to map the threefhold system
                    of intelligence, Jungian psychology is Anthro-lite. Jungian
                    psychology verifies Athletic Intelligence - Emotional Intelligence
                    and Brain bound intelligence...and all three of these operate in a
                    threefold world that Steiner mapped far more carefully than any of
                    these two. Waldorf is desgined to bring all three into harmony.
                    Sports intelligence, instinctive intelligence and sports activated
                    bodily intelligence truly resonates with one area and group of
                    souls. Emotional intelligence, artists, strippers, lovers, writers,
                    poets, singers, film makers....all weave forces of emotional
                    intelligence with spits and spats of vision and imagination. Then we
                    have dried up brain intellgence, polls, numbers, statistics, and
                    really encapsulated in Mr. Stephen Hawkings entire riddle.

                    Now I agree with your train wreck of nominalistic and realistic word
                    use, that according to you Jung really, really wanted accurate
                    semantics and definitions and strove to be clear... Well that is why
                    most Anthros can truly understand and accept Jung's efforts and Emma
                    Jung and Jungian thinkers, but Jungian thinkers are generally merely
                    scavengers of astral dreams and subconscious worlds that have not
                    been defined as part of the astral world at all. In fact Jungians
                    have not defined the astral realities in relation to the super
                    system of the nervous system of the human being. Freudians have not
                    defined the etheric blood based ethnic forces as related to the
                    lymphatic system which produces Freud's faulty concepts of Love of
                    Mother. These Jungians and Freudians and other abstract researchers
                    don't acknowledge the reality of the etheric world, don't consider
                    the reality of the astral world, don't include in any way the
                    advanced supersystem of the mighty Etheric Christ Being active
                    within humanities etheric body. These researchers who deny all this
                    and fumble around with great eastern terms and deny the system of
                    the etheric, astral and I AM are not science students thay are rumor
                    scavengers.

                    No, I'm afraid to inform you that much of Jungian psychology is
                    wonderfully foundational to any approach to Spiritual Science. But
                    Spiritual Science is the Science of the I AM... that means that we
                    take Freud as having danced around the issue of the etheric body and
                    it can be clearly understood that Freud's gifts and failures have to
                    do with his relation to the unfolding concepts and freed up concepts
                    of the Etheric life. Which are laced with utter amateur nonsense.
                    I'm afraid to inform you that Jungian research is still growing up
                    and is not even yet close to I AM Science and wanders in the great
                    halls of the astral body without even knowing it's name or it's use.
                    And finally I am afraid to inform you that Steiner incorporates all
                    three levels, the body, the soul and the spirit and the physical,
                    etheric, and astral levels and Steiner himself is a scientist of the
                    I Am.

                    Now as you have seen in my current writings, there is a constant
                    undercurrent sketch of the Etheric Christ Being as a reality that is
                    under the mighty wave of science even as it struggled with wave and
                    particle theories. I can trace with utter accuracy the dawn of the
                    Age of Light, 1899 and trace the eastern terminologies of the
                    unfolding eras and clearly bring to your attention how the Age of
                    Light, the dawn of physics, Heisenberg's uncertainty principle and
                    Jung's Sychronicity principle are tied. How Einstein's approach and
                    research to the sense of light and energy and matter, were all
                    developed side by side with the dawn of the Age of Light and the
                    entrance of the vast Etheric Christ experience of humanity outlined
                    by Steiner.

                    The Kritayuga and the dawn of the vast Etheric Christ experience
                    started rising as both wave and particle theories took root in the
                    etheric thinking of humanity. Steiner clearly walked right up to the
                    door of this age of Light and opened it to the bright illuminating
                    source of the cohesion of intelligence and shining etheric Logos of
                    the Risen Etheric Christ and ushered it in.

                    Steiner directly worked with the dawn of the Etheric Christ and the
                    inrushing Age of Light. The entire Hindu history of the ending of
                    the kaliyuga to the dawning of the kritayuga and what we must both
                    agree upon, as the Theosophical understanding of Intelligent Design
                    and the Anthropsophical understanding of Intelligent Design, can
                    clearly be read in the unfolding of Science and physics and the
                    unfolding of the etheric sciences of Anthroposophy. These can be
                    traced without your disclaimers that nobody can know baloney from
                    truth. For the only thing you can say of yourself is that you are
                    not ready or want to take an inconvienent stand to know the
                    difference between your own baloney and truth and therefore prefer
                    to keep certainty and clarity far from you, so that you think you
                    can buy wiggle room.

                    You are afraid that any reality that can be documented and
                    understood with solid clarity just might be wrong...Well guess what,
                    the vast Soul/Spirit model is woven with plenty of human leeway,
                    plenty of play and plenty of room for human error allowed,
                    nevertheless the model is there and it isn't waiting on whether your
                    fickleness and emotional stability and your sense of being weighted
                    down by reality might prevent you from soaring off to Lizards land
                    on planet Nebiru or finding just as much truth there as under your
                    bed on a dark and stormy night. The I AM system makes ALL INCLUDED.
                    Just because there is a real Science of the universe, eventually
                    your gonna have to come out of make believe land and understand how
                    the Child develops and what are the true layers of soul and how a
                    human reincarnates.

                    That is why I was rather curious how you wish to avoid sinking your
                    teeth into the wild and historical reality of such a thing as the
                    true age of Light and my mention of the Etheric Christ in many, many
                    instances. Now the Etheric Christ is not some stray belief, it is
                    the Science of the Resurrection and the Science of Spiritual Science
                    which was born from the Theosophy of Intelligent Design. The error I
                    hope you are not making, is that the well developed and well planned
                    incarnation of Jesus by the conscious Initiate Zarathustra wasn't a
                    belief in some god, it was the full fledged accomplishment of that
                    which is the core of Resurrection Science and material science, the
                    conquering and planting of the seed of Spirit Man in the historical,
                    physical, etheric and astral forces of the I AM. In other words, the
                    Etheric Christ is not a belief but a fact of nature and reality.

                    I suggest you wander in the halls of Jung and Theosophy until you
                    are totally and happily convinced that there are so many realities
                    and like a good candy store, why should you settle for one. And
                    aren't we fools who use the whole I AM system to understand all the
                    realities and any reality that any human mind can come up with. Now
                    all the realities very well exist, as you have said, in the soul
                    mind of many different people. But don't even imagine that somehow
                    this cheap astral scavenger hunt that Jung so enjoys changes one
                    fact of the Christ Event. It doesn't! It requires humanity to plunge
                    into the superstructure and Intelligent Design of their own I AM.
                    Right now the astral body and all the thrills of pretending there
                    are no laws...allows you and allows us all to have that wonderful
                    feeling of the rich playground fit and save for all truths.

                    But the compass of the Spiritual anchor in the I AM can only be
                    satisified with the kiddie pool for so long. When you decide to get
                    serious or develop your happy meal freedom within the super joy of
                    the vast I AM logos...you don't need permission from Jung, Freud or
                    Steiner. The law of the I AM is seriously larger than both Jung and
                    Freud or any Jungian model. And finally, much of Jungian psychology
                    and Theosophy do not disagree with the Intelligent Design of
                    Spiritual Science. Here is your hall pass go have fun!!!
                  • holderlin66
                    In addition to various ways to describe the human being, they amount to several, lets say for the present, FOUR, integrated forces that have their origin in
                    Message 9 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
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                      In addition to various ways to describe the human being, they amount
                      to several, lets say for the present, FOUR, integrated forces that
                      have their origin in the already refined substance of the stars,
                      that we term Fire, Air, Water and Earth. So the educator and
                      psychologist such as Jung and Steiner or Jungians and Steinerians,
                      have entered the workshop of human resources and the CIA has entered
                      the arena of education in order to wallpaper over the source of
                      these Etheric realities that each human soul brings with them when
                      they incarnate.

                      In previous research I have described how the vast origins of active
                      and particpatory elemental beings come into service and incarnation
                      with the child. Only slowly, and we have described on this list only
                      recently how the etheric heart slowly ripens with the astral heart
                      and slowly ripens to become the central sun of the I AM heart. Here
                      the human personality shines and illuminates themselves down to the
                      core of their being. Glocker and Staley on this list have previously
                      researched the Etheric Heart and Robert Mason vividly provided
                      additonal research to the subject.

                      But then the personality absorbs the work of the elemental beings
                      who reprsent fire - air - water and earth in ourselves, blood fire,
                      lung and heart beat in accord with the precession of 25,920 in synch
                      with breathing, water in the terms of how Christ offered that Man
                      must be born of Fire and Water or etheric lymphatic mysteries and
                      the conquering fire of unconditional Logos illuminated Love which
                      brilliantly flames in the human I AM, as that which is seriously
                      recorded as the Transfiguration. All these are mighty science
                      penetrations of the Cosmic I AM into the micro I Am of Man.

                      But to build the bones, to build the blood, personality and
                      temperaments that we try to discover in certain "compatibility
                      tests" and these come in all sizes and shapes including the 'perfect
                      computerized Love Match" and attempt to wallpaper over the mysteries
                      that have been outlined above in the human personality, we need to
                      be wary of. It really means that you make no effort to build for
                      yourselves true etheric insights. So for Jungians and Spiritual
                      Science students this is the origin, the starry quarters of our
                      higher being have carried with us, active elemental worlds,
                      salamandars, sylphs, nymphs and gnomes...Buddha released all these
                      wonderful beings when he completed his emancipation of Spirit
                      Selfhood on Earth.

                      Buddha and Mother/ Dream I

                      "One full moon night, sleeping in the palace, the queen had a vivid
                      dream. She felt herself being carried away by four devas (spirits)
                      to Lake Anotatta in the Himalayas. After bathing her in the lake,
                      the devas clothed her in heavenly cloths, anointed her with
                      perfumes, and bedecked her with divine flowers. Soon after a white
                      elephant, holding a white lotus flower in its trunk, appeared and
                      went round her three times, entering her womb through her right
                      side. Finally the elephant disappeared and the queen awoke, knowing
                      she had been delivered an important message, as the elephant is a
                      symbol of greatness in Nepal. The next day, early in the morning,
                      the queen told the king about the dream. The king was puzzled and
                      sent for some wise men to discover the meaning of the dream."

                      http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhism/lifebuddha/1lbud.htm

                      Bradford sketches comments;

                      Full Moon, watery mysteries, entering her womb through her right
                      side, and FOUR DEVAS...Four Devas..Four different elemental beings
                      that were the TEMPERAMENTS study for us on this list. Elemental
                      Beings who serve the growth and development of the child and in this
                      case these Devas are going to be freed up from having served the
                      material and personal cohesion of this incarnating being, and it is
                      very likely that in that incarnation, Buddha, will achieve what
                      Buddhahood means, rank of Angel, and not needing to borrow the
                      gnome, sylph, nymph or salamander beings, who have become immensely
                      humanized and full of compassion and literally volunteer to serve
                      when the Jesus task comes up to imbue the rich fountain of
                      compassion in this Jesus Human.

                      " Paracelsus added his two cents in the Middle Ages when he
                      described human nature as being influenced by four kinds of spirits."

                      Bradford comments;

                      Four kinds of elemental spirits, four etheric personality assistants
                      to serve the unfolding human development, brings us into the area of
                      what we are seeing when we are seeing the qualities that we are
                      seeing in each human personality.

                      Paracelsus was a real doctor. A real seeing human, who did his
                      homework and made his bones in mountain herbs, remedies in flowers,
                      meadows, stones and stars. Paracelsus was a real Cosmos Taught,
                      cosmos trained and probably carried insights from his past into his
                      capacities as a human being named Paracelsus. Doctors also hated
                      him.

                      Humans are meant to see ever deeper into the matrix of human
                      behavior. And surprise, what happens when we come across an
                      elemental being that assists, and conforms itself to the human mood,
                      and mingles between the sanguine sylph like sugar high, or the
                      fiery/salamandar, run in our hot blooded adrenal forces that make
                      adrenal junkies, firemen, and ambulance drivers so
                      interesting...waiting for that FIRE. Then we have the big
                      phlegmatic, horrific fast food elemental beings that have turned
                      most Americans into chubby rolls of jiggly blubber. You can see
                      these horrific ugly elementals parade themselves in TELETUBBY land.
                      And of course the gnomish, reclusive, veiled and hooded, even to the
                      point of wearing hoods, melancholics.

                      What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
                      friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
                      within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
                      exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
                      in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
                      taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
                      our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child should
                      not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
                      friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent ASAP "Heart
                      and Souls".

                      Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
                      called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
                      people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
                      air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
                      need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
                      and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to understand
                      anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the dots
                      that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
                      Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything.

                      http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107091/

                      "Robert Downey, Jr. plays a young man whose life is going very well:
                      he's engaged to Elisabeth Shue, he's got a lot of money working as a
                      lawyer or such...until some old friends of his drop in--imaginary
                      friends, that is. Sort of. Dead imaginary friends that only he can
                      see.

                      "Many years ago, some people boarded a bus, including Charles Grodin
                      and Tom Sizemore. The bus flipped over a bridge and everyone died,
                      going to heaven. But then they came back down involuntarily to
                      Downey as a child and stayed with him for a few years. Every time
                      they tried to leave him, they were pulled back to him. Until he was
                      about eight, then they somehow managed to leave because they were
                      influencing his schoolwork and life (I don't remember how they got
                      out of it). Now they're back to haunt him again, because they need
                      him to help get to heaven.

                      holderlin had previously researched:

                      "What the true Waldorf
                      Teacher would aim for, is that all four of the fire, air, water and
                      earth, all four of the Choleric, Sanguine, Phlegmatic or Melancholic
                      temperaments would be of use and in balanced animation in every
                      child. A true Waldorf Teacher knows that you want maximum mobility
                      and that the child will need the buried treasures of the four ethers
                      as they move through all the stages of life."

                      Other supportive research to advanced psychology:

                      "The earliest recorded attempts of humans to explain the differences
                      among us are found in ancient astrology. Astrology said that the
                      way the heavens were aligned when you were born determined your
                      behavior. Astrologers used twelve constellations in the sky and
                      four major groupings, symbolized by earth, air, fire, and water.
                      They claimed that the movement of the sun, moon, and planets would
                      influence your behavior patterns or your fate.

                      Thousands of years ago, stars were what they went by, and your
                      personality was determined "out there" in the heavens.

                      Then, about 400 B.C., Hippocrates (the "Father of Medicine")
                      developed a concept of "humours." He introduced a radical idea that
                      said personality was determined by elements inside your body, not
                      the stars outside your body. For a well-balanced temperament, he
                      thought you needed equal amounts of the 4 body fluids: black bile,
                      yellow bile, blood, and phlegm. (Delightful, huh?)

                      Hippocrates associated his "humours" with Temperament names. Many
                      people are familiar with them: Choleric, Phlegmatic, Sanguine, and
                      Melancholic. (I'm still fond of using these names sometimes.) So
                      that's when the naming game started, and everybody came up with
                      their version and their names for these four types. Paracelsus
                      added his two cents in the Middle Ages when he described human
                      nature as being influenced by four kinds of spirits. Hindu wisdom
                      proposes four central desires, and even the American Indian Medicine
                      Wheel features four spirit keepers similar to the Temperaments.

                      If we study the ways personality have been described over the past
                      25 centuries (there are even references in the Bible!), we discover
                      a consistent tendency for behavior to sort itself into four basic
                      activity patterns. These patterns represent the four Temperaments.
                      In other words, there are four common threads:

                      Four Personality Types

                      Hippocrates (450BC)
                      Sanguine
                      Melancholic
                      Phlegmatic
                      Choleric

                      Plato (350BC)
                      Artistic
                      Civic
                      Scientific
                      Philosophic

                      Galen (250AD)
                      Excited
                      Serious
                      Tranquil
                      Enthused

                      Paracelsus (1530)
                      Changeable
                      Industrious
                      Curious
                      Devoted

                      Adickes (1905)
                      Innovative
                      Traditional
                      Skeptical
                      Doctrinaire

                      Spranger (1914)
                      Aesthetic
                      Economical
                      Theoretical
                      Ethical

                      Kretschmer (1930)
                      Hypomanic
                      Depressive
                      Anaesthetic
                      Hyperaesthetic

                      Fromm (1947)
                      Exploiting
                      Hoarding
                      Marketing
                      Receptive

                      Myers (1955)
                      Realistic
                      Scheduled
                      Logical
                      Emotional

                      Keirsey/Bates (1960s)
                      Dionysian
                      Epimethean
                      Promethean
                      Appolonian

                      Keirsey (1970s)
                      Artisan
                      Guardian
                      Rational
                      Idealist

                      "It's important to recognize that Temperament is not just about
                      observable behaviors, but rather about behavioral patterns that are
                      evidence of underlying motivators -- core psychological needs that
                      when not met drive us to get them met (and not always in a positive
                      way), core values that drive the choices we make and the positions
                      we take on things, and related talents that help us get those needs
                      met. These underlying motivators must be inferred from the observed
                      behavior patterns over time and in a variety of contexts.

                      "The pattern of one's Temperament is there to begin with, like a DNA
                      code in its infancy, and it emerges via interaction with the "field"
                      or the environment. Thus we all have a core self for which the
                      template is there from birth, and then we have a developed self that
                      results from the interaction of the context or the situations we
                      find ourselves in and the inner push from the core to grow and
                      develop in certain ways to fulfill the pattern. The pattern will be
                      there always, even though it may sometimes look like other patterns
                      on the surface.

                      "Temperament refers to the theme of the personality, the
                      configuration. It gets at the very essence of what makes us who we
                      are. Temperament identifies the basic psychological needs and core
                      values that drive our behavior and our choices. Related to these
                      basic needs are favorite talents, communication styles, approaches
                      to, and perspectives on life."

                      http://www.infj.com/INFJ_Temperament.htm
                    • holderlin66
                      CORRECTIONs: Meaning clearly and literally that opposite our physical sex, our etheric bodies carry an opposite mirror of our physical bodies. Which meant
                      Message 10 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
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                        CORRECTIONs:

                        " Meaning clearly and literally that
                        opposite our physical sex, our etheric bodies carry an opposite
                        mirror of our physical bodies. Which meant that our etheric bodies
                        are male if we have a female physical body and our etheric bodies
                        are female if we have a male SHOULD READ - PHYSICAL (not etheric)
                        BODY. There is fact you CAN take out of the Jungian scavenger hunt and
                        replace back in the box of Steiner Science where it belongs."
                      • Steve Hale
                        ... ... The idea of synchronicity and the concept of eternal recurrence was made popular by Jung, yet he did not understand it to the degree necessary
                        Message 11 of 30 , Oct 3, 2006
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                          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                          <snip>
                          > And all these dispositions can only be based on karma, which is, even
                          > in wooden psychology, a empirical and provable science. And this is
                          > only provable is (for their sake) we abandon the whole notion (for
                          > the time being) of spiritual energy from the planets (though you,
                          > Bradford, and Steve Hale cannot do this) and reckon the idea of
                          > synchroncity.

                          The idea of synchronicity and the concept of eternal recurrence was
                          made popular by Jung, yet he did not understand it to the degree
                          necessary to make it anything more than the typical symbolic-mandalic,
                          mumbo jumbo that you express with your own very typical new-age
                          hodgepodge.

                          Thus, synchronicity from the standpoint of spiritual science concerns
                          the actual and progressive approach that is occurring right now, since
                          the advent of the 5th cultural epoch, for a remembrance of our past
                          lives. You'll find that experiences that come under the banner of
                          Jungian synchronicity concern increasing and extended events wherein
                          the sense of being here before is quite pronounced. I myself had an
                          extended experience of this so-called "deja vu" back in the third grade
                          when my school class went on a field trip to a railway station that had
                          been maintained just as it was at the turn of the 20th century. And I
                          remember being transfixed for the entire time we were there, feeling
                          the sense that I had experienced this very environment before. It was
                          very odd, yet quite a satisfying feeling as well.

                          And what is important about the phenomena of synchronicity concerns the
                          need to make contact with our past lives, as it represents the very
                          substance of what will someday yield the fifth soul development; the
                          anandamayakosha, or bliss sheath, which will serve to convey our
                          immortality to ourselves as a certainty.

                          Steve
                        • carol
                          Bradford spoke of the: elemental being that assists, and conforms itself to the human mood I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact a
                          Message 12 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
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                            Bradford spoke of the: "elemental being that assists, and conforms
                            itself to the human mood"

                            I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact
                            a `predominance' of let's say the gnome elemental being within
                            various individuals or is it an external expression of the soul's
                            subconscious encounter with the Ahramanic being, of late:

                            -Young people who extensively or not, body pierce themselves in
                            unaesthetic places. Include to this, gross overuse of tattooing.

                            Does Bradford have an answer?


                            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                            <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > In addition to various ways to describe the human being, they
                            amount
                            > to several, lets say for the present, FOUR, integrated forces that
                            > have their origin in the already refined substance of the stars,
                            > that we term Fire, Air, Water and Earth. So the educator and
                            > psychologist such as Jung and Steiner or Jungians and Steinerians,
                            > have entered the workshop of human resources and the CIA has
                            entered
                            > the arena of education in order to wallpaper over the source of
                            > these Etheric realities that each human soul brings with them when
                            > they incarnate.
                            >
                            > In previous research I have described how the vast origins of
                            active
                            > and particpatory elemental beings come into service and
                            incarnation
                            > with the child. Only slowly, and we have described on this list
                            only
                            > recently how the etheric heart slowly ripens with the astral heart
                            > and slowly ripens to become the central sun of the I AM heart.
                            Here
                            > the human personality shines and illuminates themselves down to
                            the
                            > core of their being. Glocker and Staley on this list have
                            previously
                            > researched the Etheric Heart and Robert Mason vividly provided
                            > additonal research to the subject.
                            >
                            > But then the personality absorbs the work of the elemental beings
                            > who reprsent fire - air - water and earth in ourselves, blood
                            fire,
                            > lung and heart beat in accord with the precession of 25,920 in
                            synch
                            > with breathing, water in the terms of how Christ offered that Man
                            > must be born of Fire and Water or etheric lymphatic mysteries and
                            > the conquering fire of unconditional Logos illuminated Love which
                            > brilliantly flames in the human I AM, as that which is seriously
                            > recorded as the Transfiguration. All these are mighty science
                            > penetrations of the Cosmic I AM into the micro I Am of Man.
                            >
                            > But to build the bones, to build the blood, personality and
                            > temperaments that we try to discover in certain "compatibility
                            > tests" and these come in all sizes and shapes including
                            the 'perfect
                            > computerized Love Match" and attempt to wallpaper over the
                            mysteries
                            > that have been outlined above in the human personality, we need to
                            > be wary of. It really means that you make no effort to build for
                            > yourselves true etheric insights. So for Jungians and Spiritual
                            > Science students this is the origin, the starry quarters of our
                            > higher being have carried with us, active elemental worlds,
                            > salamandars, sylphs, nymphs and gnomes...Buddha released all these
                            > wonderful beings when he completed his emancipation of Spirit
                            > Selfhood on Earth.
                            >
                            > Buddha and Mother/ Dream I
                            >
                            > "One full moon night, sleeping in the palace, the queen had a vivid
                            > dream. She felt herself being carried away by four devas (spirits)
                            > to Lake Anotatta in the Himalayas. After bathing her in the lake,
                            > the devas clothed her in heavenly cloths, anointed her with
                            > perfumes, and bedecked her with divine flowers. Soon after a white
                            > elephant, holding a white lotus flower in its trunk, appeared and
                            > went round her three times, entering her womb through her right
                            > side. Finally the elephant disappeared and the queen awoke, knowing
                            > she had been delivered an important message, as the elephant is a
                            > symbol of greatness in Nepal. The next day, early in the morning,
                            > the queen told the king about the dream. The king was puzzled and
                            > sent for some wise men to discover the meaning of the dream."
                            >
                            > http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhism/lifebuddha/1lbud.htm
                            >
                            > Bradford sketches comments;
                            >
                            > Full Moon, watery mysteries, entering her womb through her right
                            > side, and FOUR DEVAS...Four Devas..Four different elemental beings
                            > that were the TEMPERAMENTS study for us on this list. Elemental
                            > Beings who serve the growth and development of the child and in
                            this
                            > case these Devas are going to be freed up from having served the
                            > material and personal cohesion of this incarnating being, and it is
                            > very likely that in that incarnation, Buddha, will achieve what
                            > Buddhahood means, rank of Angel, and not needing to borrow the
                            > gnome, sylph, nymph or salamander beings, who have become immensely
                            > humanized and full of compassion and literally volunteer to serve
                            > when the Jesus task comes up to imbue the rich fountain of
                            > compassion in this Jesus Human.
                            >
                            > " Paracelsus added his two cents in the Middle Ages when he
                            > described human nature as being influenced by four kinds of
                            spirits."
                            >
                            > Bradford comments;
                            >
                            > Four kinds of elemental spirits, four etheric personality
                            assistants
                            > to serve the unfolding human development, brings us into the area
                            of
                            > what we are seeing when we are seeing the qualities that we are
                            > seeing in each human personality.
                            >
                            > Paracelsus was a real doctor. A real seeing human, who did his
                            > homework and made his bones in mountain herbs, remedies in flowers,
                            > meadows, stones and stars. Paracelsus was a real Cosmos Taught,
                            > cosmos trained and probably carried insights from his past into his
                            > capacities as a human being named Paracelsus. Doctors also hated
                            > him.
                            >
                            > Humans are meant to see ever deeper into the matrix of human
                            > behavior. And surprise, what happens when we come across an
                            > elemental being that assists, and conforms itself to the human
                            mood,
                            > and mingles between the sanguine sylph like sugar high, or the
                            > fiery/salamandar, run in our hot blooded adrenal forces that make
                            > adrenal junkies, firemen, and ambulance drivers so
                            > interesting...waiting for that FIRE. Then we have the big
                            > phlegmatic, horrific fast food elemental beings that have turned
                            > most Americans into chubby rolls of jiggly blubber. You can see
                            > these horrific ugly elementals parade themselves in TELETUBBY land.
                            > And of course the gnomish, reclusive, veiled and hooded, even to
                            the
                            > point of wearing hoods, melancholics.
                            >
                            > What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
                            > friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
                            > within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
                            > exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
                            > in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
                            > taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
                            > our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child
                            should
                            > not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
                            > friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent
                            ASAP "Heart
                            > and Souls".
                            >
                            > Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
                            > called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
                            > people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
                            > air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
                            > need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
                            > and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to
                            understand
                            > anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the
                            dots
                            > that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
                            > Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything.
                            >
                            > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107091/
                            >
                            > "Robert Downey, Jr. plays a young man whose life is going very
                            well:
                            > he's engaged to Elisabeth Shue, he's got a lot of money working as
                            a
                            > lawyer or such...until some old friends of his drop in--imaginary
                            > friends, that is. Sort of. Dead imaginary friends that only he can
                            > see.
                            >
                            > "Many years ago, some people boarded a bus, including Charles
                            Grodin
                            > and Tom Sizemore. The bus flipped over a bridge and everyone died,
                            > going to heaven. But then they came back down involuntarily to
                            > Downey as a child and stayed with him for a few years. Every time
                            > they tried to leave him, they were pulled back to him. Until he was
                            > about eight, then they somehow managed to leave because they were
                            > influencing his schoolwork and life (I don't remember how they got
                            > out of it). Now they're back to haunt him again, because they need
                            > him to help get to heaven.
                            >
                            > holderlin had previously researched:
                            >
                            > "What the true Waldorf
                            > Teacher would aim for, is that all four of the fire, air, water and
                            > earth, all four of the Choleric, Sanguine, Phlegmatic or
                            Melancholic
                            > temperaments would be of use and in balanced animation in every
                            > child. A true Waldorf Teacher knows that you want maximum mobility
                            > and that the child will need the buried treasures of the four
                            ethers
                            > as they move through all the stages of life."
                            >
                            > Other supportive research to advanced psychology:
                            >
                            > "The earliest recorded attempts of humans to explain the
                            differences
                            > among us are found in ancient astrology. Astrology said that the
                            > way the heavens were aligned when you were born determined your
                            > behavior. Astrologers used twelve constellations in the sky and
                            > four major groupings, symbolized by earth, air, fire, and water.
                            > They claimed that the movement of the sun, moon, and planets would
                            > influence your behavior patterns or your fate.
                            >
                            > Thousands of years ago, stars were what they went by, and your
                            > personality was determined "out there" in the heavens.
                            >
                            > Then, about 400 B.C., Hippocrates (the "Father of Medicine")
                            > developed a concept of "humours." He introduced a radical idea that
                            > said personality was determined by elements inside your body, not
                            > the stars outside your body. For a well-balanced temperament, he
                            > thought you needed equal amounts of the 4 body fluids: black bile,
                            > yellow bile, blood, and phlegm. (Delightful, huh?)
                            >
                            > Hippocrates associated his "humours" with Temperament names. Many
                            > people are familiar with them: Choleric, Phlegmatic, Sanguine, and
                            > Melancholic. (I'm still fond of using these names sometimes.) So
                            > that's when the naming game started, and everybody came up with
                            > their version and their names for these four types. Paracelsus
                            > added his two cents in the Middle Ages when he described human
                            > nature as being influenced by four kinds of spirits. Hindu wisdom
                            > proposes four central desires, and even the American Indian
                            Medicine
                            > Wheel features four spirit keepers similar to the Temperaments.
                            >
                            > If we study the ways personality have been described over the past
                            > 25 centuries (there are even references in the Bible!), we discover
                            > a consistent tendency for behavior to sort itself into four basic
                            > activity patterns. These patterns represent the four Temperaments.
                            > In other words, there are four common threads:
                            >
                            > Four Personality Types
                            >
                            > Hippocrates (450BC)
                            > Sanguine
                            > Melancholic
                            > Phlegmatic
                            > Choleric
                            >
                            > Plato (350BC)
                            > Artistic
                            > Civic
                            > Scientific
                            > Philosophic
                            >
                            > Galen (250AD)
                            > Excited
                            > Serious
                            > Tranquil
                            > Enthused
                            >
                            > Paracelsus (1530)
                            > Changeable
                            > Industrious
                            > Curious
                            > Devoted
                            >
                            > Adickes (1905)
                            > Innovative
                            > Traditional
                            > Skeptical
                            > Doctrinaire
                            >
                            > Spranger (1914)
                            > Aesthetic
                            > Economical
                            > Theoretical
                            > Ethical
                            >
                            > Kretschmer (1930)
                            > Hypomanic
                            > Depressive
                            > Anaesthetic
                            > Hyperaesthetic
                            >
                            > Fromm (1947)
                            > Exploiting
                            > Hoarding
                            > Marketing
                            > Receptive
                            >
                            > Myers (1955)
                            > Realistic
                            > Scheduled
                            > Logical
                            > Emotional
                            >
                            > Keirsey/Bates (1960s)
                            > Dionysian
                            > Epimethean
                            > Promethean
                            > Appolonian
                            >
                            > Keirsey (1970s)
                            > Artisan
                            > Guardian
                            > Rational
                            > Idealist
                            >
                            > "It's important to recognize that Temperament is not just about
                            > observable behaviors, but rather about behavioral patterns that are
                            > evidence of underlying motivators -- core psychological needs that
                            > when not met drive us to get them met (and not always in a positive
                            > way), core values that drive the choices we make and the positions
                            > we take on things, and related talents that help us get those needs
                            > met. These underlying motivators must be inferred from the observed
                            > behavior patterns over time and in a variety of contexts.
                            >
                            > "The pattern of one's Temperament is there to begin with, like a
                            DNA
                            > code in its infancy, and it emerges via interaction with
                            the "field"
                            > or the environment. Thus we all have a core self for which the
                            > template is there from birth, and then we have a developed self
                            that
                            > results from the interaction of the context or the situations we
                            > find ourselves in and the inner push from the core to grow and
                            > develop in certain ways to fulfill the pattern. The pattern will be
                            > there always, even though it may sometimes look like other patterns
                            > on the surface.
                            >
                            > "Temperament refers to the theme of the personality, the
                            > configuration. It gets at the very essence of what makes us who we
                            > are. Temperament identifies the basic psychological needs and core
                            > values that drive our behavior and our choices. Related to these
                            > basic needs are favorite talents, communication styles, approaches
                            > to, and perspectives on life."
                            >
                            > http://www.infj.com/INFJ_Temperament.htm
                            >
                          • opetha
                            Hello Bradford OK, I understand what you re saying if only you wouldn t go so far ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of that
                            Message 13 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
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                              Hello Bradford

                              OK, I understand what you're saying if only you wouldn't go so far
                              ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of that
                              psychological type.

                              Jung's teaching was empirical as possible, he did not want to venture
                              into the realm of spiritual sciences because he would leave mankind
                              behind, which is what you tend to do. I don't agree with the notion
                              that analytical psychology is a "scavenger hunt", the truth is that
                              Jung and Steinar are like two sides of a coin, Jung of the
                              unconscious and Steinar of the concious, and that you are biased
                              because you represent, not a higher thinking, but a different HALF,
                              and this is an empirical and provable thing (please don't argue with
                              this--I know exactly what you will say). The set of four psychologicl
                              types in Jung is not based on the same type of conscious thinking as
                              all those quartets you gave me, and , unfortunately, is understood
                              even less by spiritual thinking other philosophies.

                              [I hope this comes out well in the post....]

                              THINKING
                              *
                              *
                              *
                              INTUITION****************SENSATION
                              *
                              *
                              *
                              FEELING

                              These are not vague concepts as in the elements and biles.
                              Jung says of your THINKING type:

                              "..there is still a another form of negative thinking, which at first
                              glance might not be recognized as such, and that is THEOSOPHICAL
                              THINKING, which today is rapidly spreading in all parts of the world,
                              presumably in reaction to materialism of the recent past.
                              Theosophical thinkng has an air that is not in the least reductive
                              [that is, you will not come down to my level!!--Godot] since it
                              exalts everything to a transcendental and world-embracing idea. A
                              dream, for instance, is no longer just a dream, but an experience 'on
                              another plane.' The herethereto fact of telepathy is very simply
                              explained in 'vibrations' passing from one person to another. An
                              ordinary nervous complaint is explained by the fact that something
                              has collided with my 'astral body'.....We have only to open a
                              theosophical book to be overwhelmed by the realization that
                              everything is already explained, and that 'spiritual science' has
                              left no enigmas unsolved. But, at bottom, this type of thinking is
                              just as negative as materialistic thinking. When the latter regards
                              psychology as chemical changes in the ganglia or ther extrusion and
                              retraction of cell-pseudopodia or as internal secretion, this is as
                              much a superstition as theosophy. The only thing is that theosophy
                              reduces everything to eastern metaphysics.....Not only are both
                              methods of explanation futile, they are actually destructive, because
                              by diverting interest away from the main issue....to imaginary
                              vibrations, they hamper any serious investigation of the problem by
                              bogus explanation. Either kind of thinking is sterile and
                              sterilizing. Its negative quality is due to the fact it is so
                              indescribably cheap." -Psychological Types, X.2

                              This cross of function types is an innate truth, not a conditioned
                              one by meditation which any other quaternary of types would be.
                              The "theosophical" thinking is not the I AM you think it is because
                              it is the outer arm of this cross. You and Steve have written so
                              much, but to me it doesn't quite speak my language, you use many
                              metpahors and "force" words to prove you are excilerated, but in bias
                              you will not reckon with the other half of mankind, like lucifer.
                              Don't get me wrong, I am one wanting to develop my spiritual
                              integrity, but it doesn't come quite as you think.

                              You call me a "scavenger" and Mr. Hale says my talking is "new-age
                              hodge-podge" (hang on !!--I thought you were the new-agers), which
                              shows you are very combative in your own personalitistic ways and
                              defensive of your drives, almost adolescent--and I have nothing
                              against this, I will try to be fair but I'm still worried that you
                              are UNABLE to be; and only stress this because, afterall, if you want
                              to communicate with mankind you had better be considerate and not
                              talk in the language you do of warped "power-words" to your own kind,
                              and to your paying audience, because "mankind", as you maybe use that
                              term, will NOT listen to you if you go so far ahead of them. What the
                              other half of us CAN experience is our own unknown soul, which is the
                              empirical unconscious (to reiterate Jung and Steinar are quite the
                              opposites, Steinar was equally right because he had no
                              unconsciousness, and what he did know of unconsciousness was
                              conditioned by conscious metaphor and not by deductive reasoning---
                              i.e. the dream-world is the "macrocosm" and not an instancing of sub-
                              conscious complexes).

                              A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school and
                              shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use him as
                              an example of someone who can be cured by analytical psychology, but
                              NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the leaps of faith and
                              consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars until he confronts
                              himself on the Earth, no matter how "scavangering" this will be to
                              him. You want to propound your science through cosmic rhetoric more
                              than you want to heal, is this not so?

                              Other (fundamental) thinking types with this type of "be all end all"
                              thinking include Hitler and, on TV today, Docter Zakir Naik of the
                              IRF and who claims that all sciences were written in the Q'URAN
                              before they were discovered, proving God's greatness (and also that
                              the Q'URAN is the most-divine poetry ever written !!). Both are great
                              extraverted talkers because they BELEIVE 100% what they are saying is
                              true, and the audience get cosmic about this, and propaganda rears
                              its head. The unconsciouis has innate and fundamental referencing
                              that can counteract any rarified thinking--but you anthroposophists
                              cannot understand my language because the feeling-tone behnd yours.

                              I take it my use of the word "karma" to you was a scavaging. I could
                              equally say the same of Steinar's use of the word "unconscious". The
                              natal horoscope progressed at 1/360th of its normal speed shows the
                              symbols that, bad or good, will be activated in our course of life.
                              These are synchronicities in so far that they give shape, heiroglyp
                              and/or colour to unconscious archetypes without such, and give them a
                              linear qualification. This is the best argument for the "spiritual
                              sciences", this method of "psychological-astrology", because it is
                              provable on the subjective plane and not on the objective. It is not
                              scavaging in the sense that Jung is stealing something from your
                              school, you have to be considerate and pay heed to this your opposite
                              and compensator. The mandala was not new-age hodge-podge, it was a
                              glimpse into the innateness of that horoscope and its centre as the
                              SELF (or Brahm, the aura eminating from a plant was just one of the
                              baised illusions Buddha destroyed).

                              I would love to see aura and travel on the astral planet like you
                              might do (I have already innitiated SOME magical virtues, still with
                              the empirical unconsious undernieth, and still with my consideration
                              of your mind set and abandining my own at those instances) but if I
                              advance in this area it may not be because you have taught me but
                              because I have taught myself. It may be because I am British and have
                              not the type of whispy heads that you Americans have, but I cannot
                              affiliate myself with something so biased and off centre and that is
                              too depserate to convince like olf Adolf and Doctor Naik. The astral
                              rewards are one thing--yes, I know that, but the abandonement of the
                              emprirical unconscious (with mankind aong with it) is quite another.
                              I will stick to my raja yoga and destroy your lucifer AND my ahriman.

                              With love,
                              Godot.








                              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@> wrote:
                              > <snip>
                              > > And all these dispositions can only be based on karma, which is,
                              even
                              > > in wooden psychology, a empirical and provable science. And this
                              is
                              > > only provable is (for their sake) we abandon the whole notion
                              (for
                              > > the time being) of spiritual energy from the planets (though you,
                              > > Bradford, and Steve Hale cannot do this) and reckon the idea of
                              > > synchroncity.
                              >
                              > The idea of synchronicity and the concept of eternal recurrence was
                              > made popular by Jung, yet he did not understand it to the degree
                              > necessary to make it anything more than the typical symbolic-
                              mandalic,
                              > mumbo jumbo that you express with your own very typical new-age
                              > hodgepodge.
                              >
                              > Thus, synchronicity from the standpoint of spiritual science
                              concerns
                              > the actual and progressive approach that is occurring right now,
                              since
                              > the advent of the 5th cultural epoch, for a remembrance of our past
                              > lives. You'll find that experiences that come under the banner of
                              > Jungian synchronicity concern increasing and extended events
                              wherein
                              > the sense of being here before is quite pronounced. I myself had
                              an
                              > extended experience of this so-called "deja vu" back in the third
                              grade
                              > when my school class went on a field trip to a railway station that
                              had
                              > been maintained just as it was at the turn of the 20th century.
                              And I
                              > remember being transfixed for the entire time we were there,
                              feeling
                              > the sense that I had experienced this very environment before. It
                              was
                              > very odd, yet quite a satisfying feeling as well.
                              >
                              > And what is important about the phenomena of synchronicity concerns
                              the
                              > need to make contact with our past lives, as it represents the very
                              > substance of what will someday yield the fifth soul development;
                              the
                              > anandamayakosha, or bliss sheath, which will serve to convey our
                              > immortality to ourselves as a certainty.
                              >
                              > Steve
                              >
                            • holderlin66
                              carol wrote: I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact a `predominance of let s say the gnome elemental being within various individuals
                              Message 14 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
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                                carol wrote:

                                "I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact
                                a `predominance' of let's say the gnome elemental being within
                                various individuals or is it an external expression of the soul's
                                subconscious encounter" encounters....

                                Bradford comments;

                                Tatoo's are fads. But the attraction to being considered 'special'
                                because you have a groovy tattoo is based mostly on the serious
                                melancholic temperament. However because of the nature of
                                faddishness, it is 'cool' to have body this and body that which is
                                meaningless to the soul content. The soul content that these
                                abstract soul scavengers think is cool is merely a fad like high
                                school girls wearing very short navel exposed tee-shirts. I'm a
                                teacher for heaven's sake, this is all unessential soul trivia. Just
                                like rap, and baggy shorts and dressin like some punk gangsta. It
                                means literally ' 0 '. None of these fads have secured any type of
                                soul perception.

                                The human soul when it comes into incarnation brings with it a
                                suitcase full of fire, air, water, earth, personality features and
                                traits that are true elemental servants. These eventually become
                                modified well shaped plastic or mobile features of the animated
                                personality. Once again please note, these beings are part of what
                                we carry within our I AM and karmic package when we incarnate. These
                                beings assist us and become integrated into our personality make-up
                                until what we see as the type of personality, with their four
                                traits, no longer reveals to the eye the elemental, yet the
                                elemental is in there.

                                Now gnomish, and Ahrimanic greys and predominating depressive
                                elemental beings that form the melancholic dominating personality
                                trait can be part of the actual ahrimanized and corrupted inner
                                vision of the soul that are felt when there are rumors of alien
                                Abductees. However the outline I am offering is the solid basis of
                                what we carry from the spiritual world into physical incarnation and
                                what Buddha carried and freed up and transformed and what we are
                                assigned to transform. Part of our job is to humanized and free up
                                these elemental servants as Buddha did, when we complete our
                                development as humans. We don't get released from incarnation, from
                                physical matter if have not acknowledged and learned of these four
                                beings and forces in our nature as operative cosmic servants.

                                Sanguine Type:

                                The Sylph and the sylph type lends the personality terms like dumb
                                blonde or shop till you drop joy boys and sunshine girls. Swooping,
                                lightness, fun loving and generally in a sunshine mood, the sylph
                                would tend to lift the human spirit, bring a smile to a sad face and
                                when a little child is in a crying jag, sometimes it is the colorful
                                sylph aspect of hidden temperament that must come out of the child
                                and the child also gets to know, learns to get to know what that
                                laughter triggers and how to understand laughter as a visitation and
                                entrance into the sylph style of behavior that has to do with Air
                                and Light. Air, light and joy as part of the old sylph being that
                                has come with the child from the spiritual world, as part of its
                                etheric foundation and can be used as part of its personality trait
                                has also a downside.

                                Sometimes when this personality trait dominates, we understand that
                                the personality, the human personality is being protected by the
                                sylph and the human being hides within the sylph light because the
                                darkness all around the soul damages the human child and the
                                darkness around that it saw when a child forced it to hide within
                                the Sylph lightness, the unbearable lightness of being. And we can
                                see how this lightness, lack of depth becomes a sort of personality
                                crutch for the child as he/she develops. A place where no hard
                                thoughts harm and people are given pleasure instead of pain to
                                disguise their hurts. A lot of the sylph or sanguine natured adults
                                have arisen due to childhood abuses in one way or another.

                                http://www.wam.umd.edu/~llsp/sylph.jpg

                                holderlin wrote:

                                "What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
                                friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
                                within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
                                exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
                                in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
                                taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
                                our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child should
                                not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
                                friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent ASAP "Heart
                                and Souls".

                                "Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
                                called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
                                people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
                                air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
                                need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
                                and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to understand
                                anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the dots
                                that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
                                Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything."

                                Phlegmatic Type:

                                The water nixie and watery nymph enjoices the juices, the tastes and
                                the good meals of sitting at fine dining. How do the wines taste?
                                What springs and vineyards yield the finest wines? What makes you
                                salivate and gets the Water Nymph/Phlegmatic side of your nature to
                                rise up out of your physical body, your physical stone base and
                                lends you the mood he/she brings forward?

                                Teletubby's are the obnoxious little demon nymphs that have been
                                fostered by a fast food, phat America, false saliviating taste-bud
                                blubber, bouncing, over weight America, from children to their flaky
                                trailer park parents, have been made into numbed, television rotted,
                                staring vegtables, which is to insult the fine work that the water
                                spirits do in vegetables.

                                Who fooled the Nymph? Who has polluted her cosmic tastes, our
                                intimate human cosmic waters, that Thetis, mother of Achilles is
                                famous for? Monsanto and fully failed, misleading and whored taste-
                                buds that have marketed supermarket crap that children must eat as
                                fads, phat, and foul corporate profits to sustain their lies. I can
                                tell you that Sanguine, Choleric and Melancholic natures are more
                                prized in our fast paced society than the phlegmatic, steady, nearly
                                photographic brain of the overweight phlegmatic is.

                                http://snowbarsk.autoklad.com/images/zasimovich/sculpture/5.jpg

                                Choleric type;

                                Now the hot blooded and fiery choleric, can be found in Emergency
                                Rooms and in Medics everywhere. They are not always fiery red-headed
                                carrot tops that always stare at you with 'come on, go ahead, I can
                                take ya' faces. That fire appears in the soft embering glow of
                                Steiner's in depth lectures, fiery Michael forces supercharged his
                                blood, where the warmth in his Iron and Light ignited spirit flares
                                that revealed clarity where there was gathering darkness. His words
                                rang as consecrated light in all directions. Fission, fusion and
                                Iron centered sun spirituality cooked Steiner's rich dishes with a
                                warm, kindled, human blaze.

                                But then again, on the battle front of life, saving lives, from fire
                                men and women to police and swat teams to search and rescue on the
                                high seas, to special forces teams, you hear the choleric
                                shout, 'GO, GO, GO, GO!'. Adrenaline junkies can be found working
                                rush hours in restaurants, on the cooking line in the heat of the
                                battle, where the grills spit fire right in their faces and they
                                spit back. Choleric fire is in all of us, even Tiger Woods breaks
                                from his Zen mode to get really pissed off sometimes.

                                "Some people – and all narcissists – are addicted to excitement, to
                                the adrenaline rush, to the danger inevitably and invariably
                                involved. They are the adrenaline junkies. All narcissists are
                                adrenaline junkies – but not all adrenaline junkies are narcissists.

                                Thus, an adrenaline junkie must have a supply, a feed, which always
                                comes with invented excitement, real or invented drama or emotional
                                drama queens that have choleric forces in their feeling life. We can
                                understand that choleric forces or any of the other temperaments can
                                lodge themselves, not only in the will, but in the feeling, and in
                                the region of mental aggression. On the one hand solid Choleric
                                types are described as closer to the ground, Napoleonic and over
                                confident. In a pinch you know that a Choleric will cover your back,
                                fight to the death and remain in the game though anxiety is
                                everywhere and the odds against you are everywhere a great choleric
                                will be the last face you see before you pass out.

                                When unable to secure "normal" Narcissistic Supply – adulation,
                                recognition, fame, celebrity, notoriety, infamy, affirmation, or
                                mere attention – the adrenaline junkie resorts to "abnormal"
                                attention grabbers. He tries to obtain his drug – the thrills, the
                                good feeling that comes with adrenalin – by behaving recklessly, by
                                succumbing to substance abuse, or by living dangerously.

                                Such narcissists – faced with a chronic state of deficient
                                Narcissistic Supply – become criminals, or race drivers, or
                                gamblers, or soldiers, or investigative journalists. They defy
                                authority. They avoid safety, routine and boredom – no safe sex, no
                                financial prudence, no stable marriage or career. They become
                                peripatetic, change jobs, or lovers, or vocations, or avocations, or
                                residences, or friendships often.

                                But sometimes even these extreme and demonstrative steps are not
                                enough. When confronted with a boring, routine existence – with a
                                chronic and permanent inability to secure Narcissistic Supply and
                                excitement – these people compensate by inventing thrills where
                                there are none."

                                http://phopro.ie/earthspirit/fire_salamander.jpg

                                http://www.matrifocus.com/IMB05/images/fire-salamander-sm.jpg

                                Melancholic type;

                                The Melancholic earth dominated, nihilistic, Columbine depression,
                                Nietzsche fixated, hooded rapper has a sharp wit. Often sees the
                                bitter edges, the flaws, the inconsistencies and certainly
                                gravitates and finds its deepest kindled light out of darkness. You
                                could look at how Rembrandt took the darkness and found in it golden
                                hues...as highly interesting.

                                The compression of darkness and the usual Adam's family values of
                                tatoos, dark flesh piercings, pain, S&M, torture, the daughter in
                                the film "BeetleJuice" dressed in black and seeing dead people bring
                                the soul into connection with the current cultural gesture of
                                XXXXXtreme melancholic and enchained gnomes who must be sentenced,
                                as the roots of trees, and mines are strip mined, and earth is
                                carved up, the gnomes are sucked into a horrificaly depressing
                                computerization of human intellectual forces.

                                The Earth spirit gnome, ruled the biting wit of intellectual forces
                                and now lurking in the mines and dark regions of the soul are
                                Ahriman's horrific hordes. And sucked into the electro magnitic
                                sphere, gnomes are compressed into Internet darkness where humans
                                fail to see the depth and light that is in the intellect, the same
                                as they refuse and fail to see the depths and ROOTS of the universe,
                                the soul and the Spirit as the roots of a great Tree of the I AM,
                                Yggdrassil. Wagner and Tolkien felt the dark tug of the gnome
                                community, wiped out and forced into elemental slave labor within
                                the the electronic, hi-tech communications systems, inventions and
                                military experimentation.

                                Vast bacteria, watery, laser, and hi-tech atomic table forces are
                                being whored, harnassed demonized in labs and forced into elemental
                                labor and etheric torture to bring epidemics, annhilation by fire,
                                radiation, and disrupting earthquakes, tidal waves and many of them
                                now merely human generated for selfless political ends from the far
                                west. Because the human sylph, nymph, salamander and gnome forces in
                                the healing processes of the human being are being trained literally
                                as Tolkien described how the elves became Orcs. But the joke is on
                                humanity. For these beings are literally ripping into the cosmic
                                human model and the safeguards of the human healing systems by labs
                                that the American people are paying for so that the surface
                                intellect can remain in its ahrimanized slumber. This was not the
                                Agel of Light our children came to participate in, but the its
                                horrific opposite and it is U, U who sit there and read these things
                                that have failed to IMAGINE clearly what is going on.

                                This mighty potential and sacrifice of the melancholic gomes, where
                                humans cannot think and they merely become the darkness, become
                                nihilistic, become dangerous in their own stewing darkness, enjoy
                                their selfish dangers, dark drugs and brooding faddishness...shames
                                Hamlet and Hamlet is our own Consciousness Soul. Our Consciousness
                                Soul does have a gesture and certainly the black suited Dr. Steiner
                                and that sort of lecture fad, wouldn't have our usual melancholics
                                and deep thinkers, now parading around in Hawaiian shirts now would
                                they? Well they should play against type and certainly Steiner would
                                not be all tatooed with dark coal tints under his eyes for that
                                vampire effect, if he walked into a room today. But Anthros still
                                see it that way. Anthros hardly would trust an infusion of happy
                                rollicking Michaelites pulling up in their Harley's to give
                                conferences and talks. They have to be conservative, sober and
                                unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings
                                latent in the Anthro, because Anthros just want to gawk and stare at
                                the old b/w photos of Der Doctor, instead of revealing the bubbling
                                life of the new Etheric Worlds. Eh?

                                http://www.jazlink.com/jazlbums/England/HPIM0074.sized.jpg

                                http://www.sculpturebyspirit.com/door.html
                              • Steve Hale
                                ... that ... Yes, Bradford writes alot, just as you write alot. Actually, I don t see much of a difference. Now, I try to write in brief because it serves to
                                Message 15 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
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                                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hello Bradford
                                  >
                                  > OK, I understand what you're saying if only you wouldn't go so far
                                  > ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of
                                  that
                                  > psychological type.

                                  Yes, Bradford writes alot, just as you write alot. Actually, I
                                  don't see much of a difference. Now, I try to write in brief
                                  because it serves to catch the eye, and maybe gets a response, which
                                  is what I look for. I said you wrote "hodgepodge" because you were
                                  pulling out all stops to write 'new-age' dribble, which some
                                  possibly could have found offensive. In fact, I found your initial
                                  post offensive and arrogant. And that is why I didn't respond to
                                  indications of Steinerian concepts from his "Foundations of
                                  Esotericism" lectures from 1905.

                                  You are quite right in that Jung and Steiner represent a polarity;
                                  just as Kant and Steiner represent a polarity from a philosophical
                                  standpoint. This has all been gone over before, on that other
                                  little ship called the s.s. minnow. Jung is to psychology what Kant
                                  is to philosophy in terms of limits to knowledge and perception.
                                  And Rudolf Steiner overcame these bounds for those that seek to
                                  overcome such limits in order to go further in terms of knowledge
                                  and being.

                                  Esotericism and its relationship to modern thought is what interests
                                  me. Spiritual science exists in order to extend thinking and
                                  knowledge into the causal realm that stands behind external
                                  phenomena. But you have to take up the study in earnest, just as
                                  you have taken up your study of Jungian principles according to a
                                  collective unconsciousness that is quite attractive to people today
                                  because it leaves the mysteries and enigmas alone; except to engage
                                  in conservative speculation about what things mean in the greater
                                  course of events.

                                  Thus, synchonicity and its phenomenal representation is a fact that
                                  only spiritual science can truly penetrate into its causality as an
                                  increasing experience of spiritual necessity. I didn't want to lose
                                  that important point.

                                  Steve
                                • carol
                                  Thanks so much! As for this; They have to be conservative, sober and unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings latent in the Anthro,
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Oct 4, 2006
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                                    Thanks so much!

                                    As for this;
                                    They have to be conservative, sober and
                                    unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings
                                    latent in the Anthro, because Anthros just want to gawk and stare at
                                    the old b/w photos of Der Doctor, instead of revealing the bubbling
                                    life of the new Etheric Worlds. Eh?

                                    I beleive it's changing with the younger generation's influence but
                                    I agree with you, I was puzzled by it a few decades ago when I
                                    apprached the 'community'; and also worth mentioning is the setbacks
                                    at remaining dependent on group development. You're taliking to a
                                    former minor Gothic who lived by Anthroposophy but could never feel
                                    safe nor individual creative freedom anywhere near the 'community'.

                                    I have the impression that it's changing; the few Anthros that I do
                                    know have matured and are past their pretentious and competitive
                                    years. Like what occurs within the general population, once you get
                                    past a certain age, it's easier to appreciate one another.

                                    Carol.




                                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                    <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > carol wrote:
                                    >
                                    > "I was wondering if the following general occurence is in fact
                                    > a `predominance' of let's say the gnome elemental being within
                                    > various individuals or is it an external expression of the soul's
                                    > subconscious encounter" encounters....
                                    >
                                    > Bradford comments;
                                    >
                                    > Tatoo's are fads. But the attraction to being considered 'special'
                                    > because you have a groovy tattoo is based mostly on the serious
                                    > melancholic temperament. However because of the nature of
                                    > faddishness, it is 'cool' to have body this and body that which is
                                    > meaningless to the soul content. The soul content that these
                                    > abstract soul scavengers think is cool is merely a fad like high
                                    > school girls wearing very short navel exposed tee-shirts. I'm a
                                    > teacher for heaven's sake, this is all unessential soul trivia.
                                    Just
                                    > like rap, and baggy shorts and dressin like some punk gangsta. It
                                    > means literally ' 0 '. None of these fads have secured any type
                                    of
                                    > soul perception.
                                    >
                                    > The human soul when it comes into incarnation brings with it a
                                    > suitcase full of fire, air, water, earth, personality features and
                                    > traits that are true elemental servants. These eventually become
                                    > modified well shaped plastic or mobile features of the animated
                                    > personality. Once again please note, these beings are part of what
                                    > we carry within our I AM and karmic package when we incarnate.
                                    These
                                    > beings assist us and become integrated into our personality make-
                                    up
                                    > until what we see as the type of personality, with their four
                                    > traits, no longer reveals to the eye the elemental, yet the
                                    > elemental is in there.
                                    >
                                    > Now gnomish, and Ahrimanic greys and predominating depressive
                                    > elemental beings that form the melancholic dominating personality
                                    > trait can be part of the actual ahrimanized and corrupted inner
                                    > vision of the soul that are felt when there are rumors of alien
                                    > Abductees. However the outline I am offering is the solid basis of
                                    > what we carry from the spiritual world into physical incarnation
                                    and
                                    > what Buddha carried and freed up and transformed and what we are
                                    > assigned to transform. Part of our job is to humanized and free up
                                    > these elemental servants as Buddha did, when we complete our
                                    > development as humans. We don't get released from incarnation,
                                    from
                                    > physical matter if have not acknowledged and learned of these four
                                    > beings and forces in our nature as operative cosmic servants.
                                    >
                                    > Sanguine Type:
                                    >
                                    > The Sylph and the sylph type lends the personality terms like dumb
                                    > blonde or shop till you drop joy boys and sunshine girls. Swooping,
                                    > lightness, fun loving and generally in a sunshine mood, the sylph
                                    > would tend to lift the human spirit, bring a smile to a sad face
                                    and
                                    > when a little child is in a crying jag, sometimes it is the
                                    colorful
                                    > sylph aspect of hidden temperament that must come out of the child
                                    > and the child also gets to know, learns to get to know what that
                                    > laughter triggers and how to understand laughter as a visitation
                                    and
                                    > entrance into the sylph style of behavior that has to do with Air
                                    > and Light. Air, light and joy as part of the old sylph being that
                                    > has come with the child from the spiritual world, as part of its
                                    > etheric foundation and can be used as part of its personality trait
                                    > has also a downside.
                                    >
                                    > Sometimes when this personality trait dominates, we understand that
                                    > the personality, the human personality is being protected by the
                                    > sylph and the human being hides within the sylph light because the
                                    > darkness all around the soul damages the human child and the
                                    > darkness around that it saw when a child forced it to hide within
                                    > the Sylph lightness, the unbearable lightness of being. And we can
                                    > see how this lightness, lack of depth becomes a sort of personality
                                    > crutch for the child as he/she develops. A place where no hard
                                    > thoughts harm and people are given pleasure instead of pain to
                                    > disguise their hurts. A lot of the sylph or sanguine natured adults
                                    > have arisen due to childhood abuses in one way or another.
                                    >
                                    > http://www.wam.umd.edu/~llsp/sylph.jpg
                                    >
                                    > holderlin wrote:
                                    >
                                    > "What would be our shock to see these assigned elemental beings,
                                    > friends to the human soul bring him into certain moods or live
                                    > within certain moods. In the movie "Heart and Souls" you have
                                    > exactly that. Types of elemental beings and experiences still merge
                                    > in the developing child, usually earlier than five years. Now
                                    > taking the idea that Paracelsus gives us, we might have to look at
                                    > our elemental assistants who travel with us and how the child
                                    should
                                    > not get stuck in any one of them...but have all of them as his
                                    > friends, advisers and I advise you, dear student to rent
                                    ASAP "Heart
                                    > and Souls".
                                    >
                                    > "Four Spirits haunt the child in this wonderful, warm film,
                                    > called, "Heart and Souls", see it and start thinking more deeply
                                    > people and the condensed etheric beings that are assigned to human
                                    > air, human heat, human fluids, and human teeth and bones. We might
                                    > need these four elemental beings from the sylph, salamandar, nymph
                                    > and gnome community, but we also are not mature enough to
                                    understand
                                    > anything about childhood and we can't even begin to connect the
                                    dots
                                    > that are offered in such a sweet film, called, "Heart and Souls".
                                    > Yup, Anthro students aren't very aware of much of anything."
                                    >
                                    > Phlegmatic Type:
                                    >
                                    > The water nixie and watery nymph enjoices the juices, the tastes
                                    and
                                    > the good meals of sitting at fine dining. How do the wines taste?
                                    > What springs and vineyards yield the finest wines? What makes you
                                    > salivate and gets the Water Nymph/Phlegmatic side of your nature to
                                    > rise up out of your physical body, your physical stone base and
                                    > lends you the mood he/she brings forward?
                                    >
                                    > Teletubby's are the obnoxious little demon nymphs that have been
                                    > fostered by a fast food, phat America, false saliviating taste-bud
                                    > blubber, bouncing, over weight America, from children to their
                                    flaky
                                    > trailer park parents, have been made into numbed, television
                                    rotted,
                                    > staring vegtables, which is to insult the fine work that the water
                                    > spirits do in vegetables.
                                    >
                                    > Who fooled the Nymph? Who has polluted her cosmic tastes, our
                                    > intimate human cosmic waters, that Thetis, mother of Achilles is
                                    > famous for? Monsanto and fully failed, misleading and whored taste-
                                    > buds that have marketed supermarket crap that children must eat as
                                    > fads, phat, and foul corporate profits to sustain their lies. I can
                                    > tell you that Sanguine, Choleric and Melancholic natures are more
                                    > prized in our fast paced society than the phlegmatic, steady,
                                    nearly
                                    > photographic brain of the overweight phlegmatic is.
                                    >
                                    > http://snowbarsk.autoklad.com/images/zasimovich/sculpture/5.jpg
                                    >
                                    > Choleric type;
                                    >
                                    > Now the hot blooded and fiery choleric, can be found in Emergency
                                    > Rooms and in Medics everywhere. They are not always fiery red-
                                    headed
                                    > carrot tops that always stare at you with 'come on, go ahead, I can
                                    > take ya' faces. That fire appears in the soft embering glow of
                                    > Steiner's in depth lectures, fiery Michael forces supercharged his
                                    > blood, where the warmth in his Iron and Light ignited spirit flares
                                    > that revealed clarity where there was gathering darkness. His words
                                    > rang as consecrated light in all directions. Fission, fusion and
                                    > Iron centered sun spirituality cooked Steiner's rich dishes with a
                                    > warm, kindled, human blaze.
                                    >
                                    > But then again, on the battle front of life, saving lives, from
                                    fire
                                    > men and women to police and swat teams to search and rescue on the
                                    > high seas, to special forces teams, you hear the choleric
                                    > shout, 'GO, GO, GO, GO!'. Adrenaline junkies can be found working
                                    > rush hours in restaurants, on the cooking line in the heat of the
                                    > battle, where the grills spit fire right in their faces and they
                                    > spit back. Choleric fire is in all of us, even Tiger Woods breaks
                                    > from his Zen mode to get really pissed off sometimes.
                                    >
                                    > "Some people – and all narcissists – are addicted to excitement, to
                                    > the adrenaline rush, to the danger inevitably and invariably
                                    > involved. They are the adrenaline junkies. All narcissists are
                                    > adrenaline junkies – but not all adrenaline junkies are
                                    narcissists.
                                    >
                                    > Thus, an adrenaline junkie must have a supply, a feed, which always
                                    > comes with invented excitement, real or invented drama or emotional
                                    > drama queens that have choleric forces in their feeling life. We
                                    can
                                    > understand that choleric forces or any of the other temperaments
                                    can
                                    > lodge themselves, not only in the will, but in the feeling, and in
                                    > the region of mental aggression. On the one hand solid Choleric
                                    > types are described as closer to the ground, Napoleonic and over
                                    > confident. In a pinch you know that a Choleric will cover your
                                    back,
                                    > fight to the death and remain in the game though anxiety is
                                    > everywhere and the odds against you are everywhere a great choleric
                                    > will be the last face you see before you pass out.
                                    >
                                    > When unable to secure "normal" Narcissistic Supply – adulation,
                                    > recognition, fame, celebrity, notoriety, infamy, affirmation, or
                                    > mere attention – the adrenaline junkie resorts to "abnormal"
                                    > attention grabbers. He tries to obtain his drug – the thrills, the
                                    > good feeling that comes with adrenalin – by behaving recklessly, by
                                    > succumbing to substance abuse, or by living dangerously.
                                    >
                                    > Such narcissists – faced with a chronic state of deficient
                                    > Narcissistic Supply – become criminals, or race drivers, or
                                    > gamblers, or soldiers, or investigative journalists. They defy
                                    > authority. They avoid safety, routine and boredom – no safe sex, no
                                    > financial prudence, no stable marriage or career. They become
                                    > peripatetic, change jobs, or lovers, or vocations, or avocations,
                                    or
                                    > residences, or friendships often.
                                    >
                                    > But sometimes even these extreme and demonstrative steps are not
                                    > enough. When confronted with a boring, routine existence – with a
                                    > chronic and permanent inability to secure Narcissistic Supply and
                                    > excitement – these people compensate by inventing thrills where
                                    > there are none."
                                    >
                                    > http://phopro.ie/earthspirit/fire_salamander.jpg
                                    >
                                    > http://www.matrifocus.com/IMB05/images/fire-salamander-sm.jpg
                                    >
                                    > Melancholic type;
                                    >
                                    > The Melancholic earth dominated, nihilistic, Columbine depression,
                                    > Nietzsche fixated, hooded rapper has a sharp wit. Often sees the
                                    > bitter edges, the flaws, the inconsistencies and certainly
                                    > gravitates and finds its deepest kindled light out of darkness. You
                                    > could look at how Rembrandt took the darkness and found in it
                                    golden
                                    > hues...as highly interesting.
                                    >
                                    > The compression of darkness and the usual Adam's family values of
                                    > tatoos, dark flesh piercings, pain, S&M, torture, the daughter in
                                    > the film "BeetleJuice" dressed in black and seeing dead people
                                    bring
                                    > the soul into connection with the current cultural gesture of
                                    > XXXXXtreme melancholic and enchained gnomes who must be sentenced,
                                    > as the roots of trees, and mines are strip mined, and earth is
                                    > carved up, the gnomes are sucked into a horrificaly depressing
                                    > computerization of human intellectual forces.
                                    >
                                    > The Earth spirit gnome, ruled the biting wit of intellectual forces
                                    > and now lurking in the mines and dark regions of the soul are
                                    > Ahriman's horrific hordes. And sucked into the electro magnitic
                                    > sphere, gnomes are compressed into Internet darkness where humans
                                    > fail to see the depth and light that is in the intellect, the same
                                    > as they refuse and fail to see the depths and ROOTS of the
                                    universe,
                                    > the soul and the Spirit as the roots of a great Tree of the I AM,
                                    > Yggdrassil. Wagner and Tolkien felt the dark tug of the gnome
                                    > community, wiped out and forced into elemental slave labor within
                                    > the the electronic, hi-tech communications systems, inventions and
                                    > military experimentation.
                                    >
                                    > Vast bacteria, watery, laser, and hi-tech atomic table forces are
                                    > being whored, harnassed demonized in labs and forced into elemental
                                    > labor and etheric torture to bring epidemics, annhilation by fire,
                                    > radiation, and disrupting earthquakes, tidal waves and many of them
                                    > now merely human generated for selfless political ends from the far
                                    > west. Because the human sylph, nymph, salamander and gnome forces
                                    in
                                    > the healing processes of the human being are being trained
                                    literally
                                    > as Tolkien described how the elves became Orcs. But the joke is on
                                    > humanity. For these beings are literally ripping into the cosmic
                                    > human model and the safeguards of the human healing systems by labs
                                    > that the American people are paying for so that the surface
                                    > intellect can remain in its ahrimanized slumber. This was not the
                                    > Agel of Light our children came to participate in, but the its
                                    > horrific opposite and it is U, U who sit there and read these
                                    things
                                    > that have failed to IMAGINE clearly what is going on.
                                    >
                                    > This mighty potential and sacrifice of the melancholic gomes, where
                                    > humans cannot think and they merely become the darkness, become
                                    > nihilistic, become dangerous in their own stewing darkness, enjoy
                                    > their selfish dangers, dark drugs and brooding faddishness...shames
                                    > Hamlet and Hamlet is our own Consciousness Soul. Our Consciousness
                                    > Soul does have a gesture and certainly the black suited Dr. Steiner
                                    > and that sort of lecture fad, wouldn't have our usual melancholics
                                    > and deep thinkers, now parading around in Hawaiian shirts now would
                                    > they? Well they should play against type and certainly Steiner
                                    would
                                    > not be all tatooed with dark coal tints under his eyes for that
                                    > vampire effect, if he walked into a room today. But Anthros still
                                    > see it that way. Anthros hardly would trust an infusion of happy
                                    > rollicking Michaelites pulling up in their Harley's to give
                                    > conferences and talks. They have to be conservative, sober and
                                    > unable to whip up laughter, joy and all the other elemental beings
                                    > latent in the Anthro, because Anthros just want to gawk and stare
                                    at
                                    > the old b/w photos of Der Doctor, instead of revealing the bubbling
                                    > life of the new Etheric Worlds. Eh?
                                    >
                                    > http://www.jazlink.com/jazlbums/England/HPIM0074.sized.jpg
                                    >
                                    > http://www.sculpturebyspirit.com/door.html
                                    >
                                  • opetha
                                    Hello, Disfigurations in the Orient is the opposite of Transformations in the Occident , where would we be without ambiguity? We must face our devil
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Oct 5, 2006
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                                      Hello,

                                      "Disfigurations in the Orient" is the opposite of "Transformations in
                                      the Occident", where would we be without ambiguity? We must face our
                                      devil sometime.

                                      Tarot cards--that's why it appears "typical new-age", maybe a typical
                                      filter is the case. But what I say is 100% eternal law of the dhamma,
                                      so far as the unconscious as mulaprakriti is unchanging ideation from
                                      which any spiritual world, in any epoch, is built.

                                      Bless.

                                      Godot.












                                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                                      wrote:
                                      >
                                      > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Hello Bradford
                                      > >
                                      > > OK, I understand what you're saying if only you wouldn't go so
                                      far
                                      > > ahead and write so much, it all only proves to me the theory of
                                      > that
                                      > > psychological type.
                                      >
                                      > Yes, Bradford writes alot, just as you write alot. Actually, I
                                      > don't see much of a difference. Now, I try to write in brief
                                      > because it serves to catch the eye, and maybe gets a response,
                                      which
                                      > is what I look for. I said you wrote "hodgepodge" because you
                                      were
                                      > pulling out all stops to write 'new-age' dribble, which some
                                      > possibly could have found offensive. In fact, I found your initial
                                      > post offensive and arrogant. And that is why I didn't respond to
                                      > indications of Steinerian concepts from his "Foundations of
                                      > Esotericism" lectures from 1905.
                                      >
                                      > You are quite right in that Jung and Steiner represent a polarity;
                                      > just as Kant and Steiner represent a polarity from a philosophical
                                      > standpoint. This has all been gone over before, on that other
                                      > little ship called the s.s. minnow. Jung is to psychology what
                                      Kant
                                      > is to philosophy in terms of limits to knowledge and perception.
                                      > And Rudolf Steiner overcame these bounds for those that seek to
                                      > overcome such limits in order to go further in terms of knowledge
                                      > and being.
                                      >
                                      > Esotericism and its relationship to modern thought is what
                                      interests
                                      > me. Spiritual science exists in order to extend thinking and
                                      > knowledge into the causal realm that stands behind external
                                      > phenomena. But you have to take up the study in earnest, just as
                                      > you have taken up your study of Jungian principles according to a
                                      > collective unconsciousness that is quite attractive to people today
                                      > because it leaves the mysteries and enigmas alone; except to engage
                                      > in conservative speculation about what things mean in the greater
                                      > course of events.
                                      >
                                      > Thus, synchonicity and its phenomenal representation is a fact that
                                      > only spiritual science can truly penetrate into its causality as an
                                      > increasing experience of spiritual necessity. I didn't want to
                                      lose
                                      > that important point.
                                      >
                                      > Steve
                                      >
                                    • holderlin66
                                      Godot wrote: A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use him as an
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Oct 5, 2006
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                                        Godot wrote:

                                        "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school
                                        and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use
                                        him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                        psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                        leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                                        until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                        how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound your
                                        science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is this
                                        not so?"

                                        "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                        writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                                        forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                                        men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                        Things."

                                        Bradford comments;

                                        Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                                        Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal. But we
                                        can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical point
                                        means better than the current Jungians.

                                        John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age 33.
                                        Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the world
                                        over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the Declaration
                                        of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing Religious
                                        Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.

                                        María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                                        8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.

                                        1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES

                                        Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0

                                        (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)

                                        In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space of
                                        just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become one of
                                        the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                        finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with three
                                        friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                        philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                        labeled "Transcendentalism."

                                        The Human Life by George O'Neil

                                        " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                        George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of Biography.
                                        The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of seven-
                                        year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the archetype
                                        of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead particularly
                                        after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly. The
                                        book goes into detail about the need to understand the importance of
                                        a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                        karmic companions, moon nodes etc.

                                        In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The chart
                                        has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea, and
                                        karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived and I
                                        personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                                        myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                        unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.

                                        George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work and
                                        insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain even
                                        through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a Mercury
                                        Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."

                                        Bradford concludes;

                                        Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously we
                                        have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures with
                                        first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and the
                                        change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart; the
                                        astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                        personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                        heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                                        human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33 years
                                        of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to 1933
                                        when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is Ahriman
                                        who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.

                                        What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is exposed to
                                        all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It recrossed
                                        his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to what we
                                        have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful elemental
                                        intensity and GUILT.

                                        But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                        understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                        being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces that
                                        truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I AM,
                                        human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away from
                                        his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age, when
                                        Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                        twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of the
                                        two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                        prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math and
                                        interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world and
                                        Man.

                                        But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as possible
                                        the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                        consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                        Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate
                                        and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point.
                                        Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the Christ
                                        take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                                        thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away, looking
                                        down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully developed
                                        etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                                        function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and as
                                        fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra to
                                        hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts the
                                        amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that Zarathustra
                                        watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest prepared
                                        human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this loving,
                                        living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun Elohim
                                        Christ.

                                        It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that Zarathustra
                                        had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a clarified
                                        astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom ever
                                        condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                        someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a gift to
                                        something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine all
                                        the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                        insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched althought
                                        Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                        mysteries to us.

                                        Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                                        thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM live
                                        fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33. Take
                                        Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region of
                                        the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this I
                                        AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt the
                                        karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world over
                                        and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds, Goethe,
                                        Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the Christ
                                        event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic family
                                        with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic family!!
                                        Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                        viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                        Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                                        Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson with
                                        his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                        community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner titles
                                        his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative of
                                        Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?

                                        Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the science
                                        of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at age 30
                                        to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting confrontation
                                        with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                        structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                        Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say we
                                        could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list of
                                        insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding places
                                        in the bushes.

                                        This is all that you need to remember about the difference between
                                        Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                      • opetha
                                        Good day, THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH ! Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn t matter in the end, we all have our own opinions and beliefs.
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
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                                          Good day,

                                          THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !

                                          Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end, we
                                          all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I would
                                          rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the 33
                                          and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed horoscope
                                          they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33, 34,
                                          or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.

                                          Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                                          saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto when
                                          he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect lasts a
                                          long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This system
                                          has
                                          never known to fail, and like your interpretations of synchronicity
                                          , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by

                                          (a) energy
                                          or (b) causality

                                          Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was not
                                          a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of the
                                          SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                                          tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the jambu
                                          tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                                          energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                                          quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the centre
                                          was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                                          types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                                          have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).

                                          Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying that
                                          the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth by
                                          a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from the
                                          bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                                          sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.

                                          "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                                          -Pythagoras

                                          Godot.
















                                          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66" <holderlin66@...>
                                          wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Godot wrote:
                                          >
                                          > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school
                                          > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use
                                          > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                          > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                          > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                                          > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                          > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound your
                                          > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is this
                                          > not so?"
                                          >
                                          > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                          > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                                          > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                                          > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                          > Things."
                                          >
                                          > Bradford comments;
                                          >
                                          > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                                          > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal. But
                                          we
                                          > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                          point
                                          > means better than the current Jungians.
                                          >
                                          > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age 33.
                                          > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the world
                                          > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the Declaration
                                          > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing Religious
                                          > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                          >
                                          > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                                          > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                          >
                                          > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                          >
                                          > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                          >
                                          > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                          >
                                          > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space of
                                          > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become one
                                          of
                                          > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                          > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                          three
                                          > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                          > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                          > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                          >
                                          > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                          >
                                          > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                          > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of Biography.
                                          > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                          seven-
                                          > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the archetype
                                          > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                          particularly
                                          > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly. The
                                          > book goes into detail about the need to understand the importance
                                          of
                                          > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                          > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                          >
                                          > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The chart
                                          > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea, and
                                          > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived and I
                                          > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                                          > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                          > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                          >
                                          > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work and
                                          > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain even
                                          > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a Mercury
                                          > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."
                                          >
                                          > Bradford concludes;
                                          >
                                          > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously we
                                          > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                          with
                                          > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and the
                                          > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart; the
                                          > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                          > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                          > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                                          > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33 years
                                          > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                          1933
                                          > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is Ahriman
                                          > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                          >
                                          > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is exposed
                                          to
                                          > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                          recrossed
                                          > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to what
                                          we
                                          > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful elemental
                                          > intensity and GUILT.
                                          >
                                          > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                          > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                          > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces that
                                          > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I AM,
                                          > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away from
                                          > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age, when
                                          > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                          > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of the
                                          > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                          > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math
                                          and
                                          > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world and
                                          > Man.
                                          >
                                          > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as possible
                                          > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                          > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                          > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate
                                          > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point.
                                          > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the Christ
                                          > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                                          > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away, looking
                                          > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully developed
                                          > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                                          > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and as
                                          > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra to
                                          > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts
                                          the
                                          > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that Zarathustra
                                          > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest prepared
                                          > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this loving,
                                          > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun Elohim
                                          > Christ.
                                          >
                                          > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that Zarathustra
                                          > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a clarified
                                          > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom ever
                                          > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                          > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a gift
                                          to
                                          > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine
                                          all
                                          > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                          > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched althought
                                          > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                          > mysteries to us.
                                          >
                                          > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                                          > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM live
                                          > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33. Take
                                          > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region of
                                          > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this I
                                          > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt the
                                          > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world over
                                          > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds, Goethe,
                                          > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the Christ
                                          > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                          family
                                          > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                          family!!
                                          > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                          > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                          > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                                          > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                          with
                                          > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                          > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner titles
                                          > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative of
                                          > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                          >
                                          > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                          science
                                          > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at age
                                          30
                                          > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting confrontation
                                          > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                          > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                          > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say we
                                          > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list of
                                          > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding places
                                          > in the bushes.
                                          >
                                          > This is all that you need to remember about the difference between
                                          > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                          >
                                        • carol
                                          Dear Godot, Perhaps next time around you ll possess the great courage necessary to take on the `big picture . Please take note that your inner urge to
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
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                                            Dear Godot,

                                            Perhaps next time around you'll possess the great courage necessary
                                            to take on the `big picture'. Please take note that your inner urge
                                            to directly wrestling with Anthroposophy has now
                                            figuratively `sprinkled your soul with a light drizzle'.

                                            May the heavens ray down upon you... in sympathy, Carol

                                            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Good day,
                                            >
                                            > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !
                                            >
                                            > Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end,
                                            we
                                            > all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I
                                            would
                                            > rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the
                                            33
                                            > and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed
                                            horoscope
                                            > they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33,
                                            34,
                                            > or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.
                                            >
                                            > Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                                            > saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto
                                            when
                                            > he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect
                                            lasts a
                                            > long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This
                                            system
                                            > has
                                            > never known to fail, and like your interpretations of synchronicity
                                            > , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by
                                            >
                                            > (a) energy
                                            > or (b) causality
                                            >
                                            > Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was
                                            not
                                            > a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of
                                            the
                                            > SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                                            > tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the
                                            jambu
                                            > tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                                            > energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                                            > quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the
                                            centre
                                            > was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                                            > types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                                            > have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).
                                            >
                                            > Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying
                                            that
                                            > the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth
                                            by
                                            > a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from
                                            the
                                            > bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                                            > sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.
                                            >
                                            > "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                                            > -Pythagoras
                                            >
                                            > Godot.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66" <holderlin66@>
                                            > wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Godot wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish
                                            school
                                            > > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will
                                            use
                                            > > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                            > > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                            > > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                                            > > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                            > > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound
                                            your
                                            > > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                                            this
                                            > > not so?"
                                            > >
                                            > > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                            > > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                                            > > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                                            > > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                            > > Things."
                                            > >
                                            > > Bradford comments;
                                            > >
                                            > > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                                            > > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal.
                                            But
                                            > we
                                            > > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                            > point
                                            > > means better than the current Jungians.
                                            > >
                                            > > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age
                                            33.
                                            > > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the
                                            world
                                            > > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                                            Declaration
                                            > > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing
                                            Religious
                                            > > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                            > >
                                            > > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                                            > > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                            > >
                                            > > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                            > >
                                            > > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                            > >
                                            > > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                            > >
                                            > > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space
                                            of
                                            > > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become
                                            one
                                            > of
                                            > > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                            > > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                            > three
                                            > > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                            > > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                            > > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                            > >
                                            > > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                            > >
                                            > > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                            > > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of
                                            Biography.
                                            > > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                            > seven-
                                            > > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the
                                            archetype
                                            > > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                            > particularly
                                            > > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                                            The
                                            > > book goes into detail about the need to understand the
                                            importance
                                            > of
                                            > > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                            > > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                            > >
                                            > > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                                            chart
                                            > > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea,
                                            and
                                            > > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived
                                            and I
                                            > > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                                            > > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                            > > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                            > >
                                            > > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work
                                            and
                                            > > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain
                                            even
                                            > > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a
                                            Mercury
                                            > > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."
                                            > >
                                            > > Bradford concludes;
                                            > >
                                            > > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously
                                            we
                                            > > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                            > with
                                            > > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and
                                            the
                                            > > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart;
                                            the
                                            > > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                            > > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                            > > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                                            > > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33
                                            years
                                            > > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                            > 1933
                                            > > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                                            Ahriman
                                            > > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                            > >
                                            > > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is
                                            exposed
                                            > to
                                            > > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                            > recrossed
                                            > > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to
                                            what
                                            > we
                                            > > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                                            elemental
                                            > > intensity and GUILT.
                                            > >
                                            > > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                            > > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                            > > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces
                                            that
                                            > > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I
                                            AM,
                                            > > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away
                                            from
                                            > > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                                            when
                                            > > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                            > > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of
                                            the
                                            > > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                            > > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math
                                            > and
                                            > > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world
                                            and
                                            > > Man.
                                            > >
                                            > > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as
                                            possible
                                            > > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                            > > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                            > > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                                            incubate
                                            > > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that
                                            point.
                                            > > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                                            Christ
                                            > > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                                            > > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away,
                                            looking
                                            > > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                                            developed
                                            > > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                                            > > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and
                                            as
                                            > > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra
                                            to
                                            > > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts
                                            > the
                                            > > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                                            Zarathustra
                                            > > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest
                                            prepared
                                            > > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this
                                            loving,
                                            > > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                                            Elohim
                                            > > Christ.
                                            > >
                                            > > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                                            Zarathustra
                                            > > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                                            clarified
                                            > > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom
                                            ever
                                            > > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                            > > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a
                                            gift
                                            > to
                                            > > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine
                                            > all
                                            > > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                            > > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched
                                            althought
                                            > > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                            > > mysteries to us.
                                            > >
                                            > > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                                            > > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                                            live
                                            > > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                                            Take
                                            > > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region
                                            of
                                            > > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this
                                            I
                                            > > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                                            the
                                            > > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world
                                            over
                                            > > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds,
                                            Goethe,
                                            > > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                                            Christ
                                            > > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                            > family
                                            > > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                            > family!!
                                            > > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                            > > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                            > > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                                            > > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                            > with
                                            > > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                            > > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                                            titles
                                            > > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative
                                            of
                                            > > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                            > >
                                            > > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                            > science
                                            > > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at
                                            age
                                            > 30
                                            > > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting
                                            confrontation
                                            > > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                            > > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                            > > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say
                                            we
                                            > > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list
                                            of
                                            > > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                                            places
                                            > > in the bushes.
                                            > >
                                            > > This is all that you need to remember about the difference
                                            between
                                            > > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • opetha
                                            Dear Godot, Perhaps next time around you ll possess the great courage necessary to take on the `big picture . Please take note that your inner urge to
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              "Dear Godot,

                                              Perhaps next time around you'll possess the great courage necessary
                                              to take on the `big picture'. Please take note that your inner urge
                                              to directly wrestling with Anthroposophy has now
                                              figuratively `sprinkled your soul with a light drizzle'. >
                                              May the heavens ray down upon you... in sympathy, Carol"

                                              The jehovah's witnesses are saying the same thing to you. This is an
                                              anthroposophy site , if it was a Jung site you'd get the same
                                              sectarian onanism from them. Human beings are not free of poison,
                                              carol, this includes you.

                                              The 'big picture' includes the collective unconscious which you think
                                              is against anthroposophy. No spirit can operate without a Karmic
                                              symbol in the unconscious, all spirits, phantom worlds and "eigth
                                              spheres" all have a reflection in the unconscious, they cannot be
                                              created without ideation.

                                              A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless
                                              that person's unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows
                                              NOTHING about the unconscious and thinks that he is "divining"
                                              himself psychically that he can kill
                                              or heal someone. If he does heal, the spirit thinks that he did it by
                                              his own effort. But the unconscious symbols, or archetypes, as we can
                                              see by progression astrology is shown by that dead or healed
                                              persons's horoscope; the aspects produced are synchronized to the
                                              causel éffect. So, you see, these two worlds of unconscious and
                                              conscious spirit are paralell. But because you have week intuition
                                              you cannot see this, so you make up a lot of abstract rules to
                                              entertain consciousness.
                                              Totality--"christ etheric"---is only acheived through union of the
                                              opposites. It is the resting of all spirit.

                                              You have no balance and are threatened by this testament.

                                              DE FABIS ABSTINUTO.
                                              Godot











                                              > >
                                              > > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !
                                              > >
                                              > > Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end,
                                              > we
                                              > > all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I
                                              > would
                                              > > rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the
                                              > 33
                                              > > and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed
                                              > horoscope
                                              > > they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33,
                                              > 34,
                                              > > or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.
                                              > >
                                              > > Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                                              > > saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto
                                              > when
                                              > > he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect
                                              > lasts a
                                              > > long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This
                                              > system
                                              > > has
                                              > > never known to fail, and like your interpretations of
                                              synchronicity
                                              > > , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by
                                              > >
                                              > > (a) energy
                                              > > or (b) causality
                                              > >
                                              > > Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was
                                              > not
                                              > > a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of
                                              > the
                                              > > SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                                              > > tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the
                                              > jambu
                                              > > tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                                              > > energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                                              > > quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the
                                              > centre
                                              > > was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                                              > > types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                                              > > have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).
                                              > >
                                              > > Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying
                                              > that
                                              > > the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth
                                              > by
                                              > > a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from
                                              > the
                                              > > bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                                              > > sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.
                                              > >
                                              > > "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                                              > > -Pythagoras
                                              > >
                                              > > Godot.
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                              <holderlin66@>
                                              > > wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Godot wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish
                                              > school
                                              > > > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will
                                              > use
                                              > > > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                              > > > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                              > > > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the
                                              stars
                                              > > > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                              > > > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound
                                              > your
                                              > > > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                                              > this
                                              > > > not so?"
                                              > > >
                                              > > > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                              > > > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of
                                              the
                                              > > > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age
                                              for
                                              > > > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                              > > > Things."
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Bradford comments;
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human
                                              being.
                                              > > > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal.
                                              > But
                                              > > we
                                              > > > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                              > > point
                                              > > > means better than the current Jungians.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age
                                              > 33.
                                              > > > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the
                                              > world
                                              > > > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                                              > Declaration
                                              > > > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing
                                              > Religious
                                              > > > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33,
                                              at
                                              > > > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                              > > >
                                              > > > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                              > > >
                                              > > > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space
                                              > of
                                              > > > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become
                                              > one
                                              > > of
                                              > > > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                              > > > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                              > > three
                                              > > > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                              > > > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                              > > > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                              > > >
                                              > > > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                              > > >
                                              > > > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                              > > > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of
                                              > Biography.
                                              > > > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                              > > seven-
                                              > > > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the
                                              > archetype
                                              > > > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                              > > particularly
                                              > > > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                                              > The
                                              > > > book goes into detail about the need to understand the
                                              > importance
                                              > > of
                                              > > > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                              > > > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                                              > chart
                                              > > > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea,
                                              > and
                                              > > > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived
                                              > and I
                                              > > > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I
                                              find
                                              > > > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                              > > > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work
                                              > and
                                              > > > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain
                                              > even
                                              > > > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a
                                              > Mercury
                                              > > > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real
                                              gem."
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Bradford concludes;
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science.
                                              Previously
                                              > we
                                              > > > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                              > > with
                                              > > > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and
                                              > the
                                              > > > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart;
                                              > the
                                              > > > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                              > > > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                              > > > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find
                                              the
                                              > > > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33
                                              > years
                                              > > > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                              > > 1933
                                              > > > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                                              > Ahriman
                                              > > > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is
                                              > exposed
                                              > > to
                                              > > > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                              > > recrossed
                                              > > > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to
                                              > what
                                              > > we
                                              > > > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                                              > elemental
                                              > > > intensity and GUILT.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                              > > > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                              > > > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces
                                              > that
                                              > > > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I
                                              > AM,
                                              > > > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away
                                              > from
                                              > > > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                                              > when
                                              > > > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                              > > > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of
                                              > the
                                              > > > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                              > > > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic
                                              math
                                              > > and
                                              > > > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world
                                              > and
                                              > > > Man.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as
                                              > possible
                                              > > > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                              > > > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                              > > > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                                              > incubate
                                              > > > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that
                                              > point.
                                              > > > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                                              > Christ
                                              > > > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language,
                                              brain,
                                              > > > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away,
                                              > looking
                                              > > > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                                              > developed
                                              > > > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot,
                                              fully
                                              > > > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and
                                              > as
                                              > > > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra
                                              > to
                                              > > > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's
                                              depicts
                                              > > the
                                              > > > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                                              > Zarathustra
                                              > > > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest
                                              > prepared
                                              > > > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this
                                              > loving,
                                              > > > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                                              > Elohim
                                              > > > Christ.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                                              > Zarathustra
                                              > > > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                                              > clarified
                                              > > > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom
                                              > ever
                                              > > > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                              > > > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a
                                              > gift
                                              > > to
                                              > > > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't
                                              examine
                                              > > all
                                              > > > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                              > > > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched
                                              > althought
                                              > > > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                              > > > mysteries to us.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting
                                              each
                                              > > > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                                              > live
                                              > > > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                                              > Take
                                              > > > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region
                                              > of
                                              > > > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought
                                              this
                                              > I
                                              > > > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                                              > the
                                              > > > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world
                                              > over
                                              > > > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds,
                                              > Goethe,
                                              > > > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                                              > Christ
                                              > > > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                              > > family
                                              > > > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                              > > family!!
                                              > > > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                              > > > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                              > > > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger
                                              or
                                              > > > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                              > > with
                                              > > > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                              > > > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                                              > titles
                                              > > > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative
                                              > of
                                              > > > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                              > > science
                                              > > > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at
                                              > age
                                              > > 30
                                              > > > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting
                                              > confrontation
                                              > > > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                              > > > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                              > > > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd
                                              say
                                              > we
                                              > > > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list
                                              > of
                                              > > > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                                              > places
                                              > > > in the bushes.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > This is all that you need to remember about the difference
                                              > between
                                              > > > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                            • holderlin66
                                              opetha wrote: A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless that person s unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows NOTHING
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
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                                                opetha wrote:

                                                "A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless
                                                that person's unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows
                                                NOTHING about the unconscious and thinks that he is "divining"
                                                himself psychically that he can kill
                                                or heal someone. If he does heal, the spirit thinks that he did it by
                                                his own effort. But the unconscious symbols, or archetypes, as we can
                                                see by progression astrology is shown by that dead or healed
                                                persons's horoscope; the aspects produced are synchronized to the
                                                causel éffect. So, you see, these two worlds of unconscious and
                                                conscious spirit are paralell."

                                                Bradford comments;

                                                Truly, truly, not that it matters, by Jungianism is a very good
                                                basis for beginners to grasp Anthroposophy. Most Anthro's have not
                                                progressed further than vague Jungianism, but Jungianism is a good
                                                enough approach to start off with.

                                                But to the issue, Godot, the issue of healing. Now there is again an
                                                area of actual healing, as in the so called miracles, and right
                                                away, forget about whatever you have assumed about the miracles in
                                                the past. Healing, certainly healers and healing is a wonderful
                                                theory and vaguely we are all growing into healers. But Healers that
                                                are given the task of producing from our core, an entirely new
                                                nature with adjustments and elemental world healings, and karmic
                                                balancers.

                                                But the theory of healers has to have itself rooted in something.
                                                That something is known as the progressive science miracles of
                                                Christ. That is that Anthro Science and Resurrection Science can
                                                walk you through the slow unfolding and serious deepening, step by
                                                step as the Christ penetrated...the Jesus model built by Zarathustra.

                                                Step by step, the vast Being of the Christ, using the developing
                                                cognition of the Christ and Zarathustra's highly developed faculties
                                                and Buddha's immense cosmic compassion, started out with what,
                                                changing water into wine. But from each step by step, stage by stage
                                                deepening of what Christ is, the I AM of all I AM's, as our I AM and
                                                higher being penetrates into our being, firstly Christ taps the deep
                                                forces of wine, blood and the elemental forces of the EArth. Christ
                                                changes water into wine. Whole new elemental forces in the nymphs
                                                and undines spring to life in clay jars.

                                                Now what happens stage by stage are not miracles but the unfolding
                                                in depth capacity and science of the forces of Karma cognition,
                                                healing blind people, or blood issues, or the Youth of Nain, as a
                                                world historical karmic adjustment that was left over from THE SON
                                                OF THE WIDOW an Isis and Egyptian karmic problem that left a youth
                                                in a coma, was read and adjusted by Christ.

                                                We have brought on this list, on this list only recently, revealing
                                                these miracles under the heading of miracles and we walked it
                                                through as best we could. That is that Christ was the active Star
                                                Genius, the active adjustor. Christ on Earth was an active vortex of
                                                living Star force that usually exists outside of humanity. Christ
                                                brought the living Stars for a short time, exactly on Earth.
                                                Steiner, better than Bill Gates, knew the codes and developments of
                                                I AM's and Christ could and had the power in the vortex that was
                                                established around him.... a vast vortex of forces that included the
                                                TWELVE, Christ was the walking reality of the immediate stars. These
                                                powers are all latent in the puny i am or id and how we raise
                                                ourselves to our higher beings, and eventually bring the Not I but
                                                Christ I AM into us, is left for our unfolding future.

                                                But my point is not that they were healing and miracles and not that
                                                human beings, Jungians and biodynamics farmers, Waldorf educators,
                                                and Anthro trained students aren't healers, we all are. But my point
                                                was that an entirely new nature ---- This should be grasped and I
                                                can't blame anyone, including Anthros for not yet grasping this, but
                                                the fact is that a New Nature force rose up and will rise up not
                                                from miracles but from the penetrating and clarified science of the
                                                I AM going deeper and deeper into the I AM, down to the core of
                                                matter. And I can tell you that penetrating the core of matter as
                                                Love and Light is part of the Heisenberg problem. A problem that
                                                Heisenberg and Steiner agreed upon. As the I AM is penetrated and we
                                                become more and more conscious, the exactness of the science, the
                                                etheric forces needed, the star forces needed, all become clear to
                                                the force that had penetrated the Jesus model, once the Cosmic I AM
                                                took root.

                                                The science of healing, certainly has a beginning with a Jungian
                                                frame of reference and Anthroposophy picks up that Jungian frame of
                                                reference and more and more consolidates what is termed,
                                                UNCONSCIOUS, as nothing that cannot be explored by the Spiritual
                                                Scientist. Naturally the idea that Steiner was unconscious of the
                                                nature forces or star forces and medical forces as he plunged into
                                                his "Agricultural Course" is absurd. Naturally to imagine that the
                                                hit or miss version of Edgar Casey was on par with the Conscious
                                                Initiate Science of Steiner, is sweet. But to penetrate the
                                                properties of the stars, and direct them down to the soil, or
                                                through the organism, or into the model of higher and general
                                                education, means that the unconscious model that Jungians declare as
                                                part of the unexplored area of their being....that may be true for
                                                us, but it was less and less true for both Zarathustra, Buddha and
                                                Steiner. Mapping the Unconscious with clarity is also not getting
                                                trapped in the idea of vague nonsense.

                                                Myths, archetypes, you give it to me, and I'll spit it right back in
                                                the direction that reveals, not the unconscious but the maps of the
                                                unconscious. When we say maps, we are talking Dante and his nine
                                                layers deep and nine layers upwards. When we are talking maps, we
                                                are talking about the same Nine layers of the Norse Yggdrasill. When
                                                we are talking maps of the unconscious we are talking about the same
                                                Nine layers that were known to the Egyptians....if you want me to
                                                prove it... suffice it to say, KA...etc... etc... What you insist on
                                                the unconscious was the Venus steps of the Aztec and Mayan altars,
                                                where the nine months of gestation and the snake shadow that runs
                                                down the steps and even the number of steps up the Venus altar where
                                                human sacrifice was made, were the exact number of steps as the
                                                number of days it took Venus....And then the Aztec's went down into
                                                the nine worlds of the underworld. These maps were not meant to be
                                                relegated as unconscious.

                                                Now Spiritual Science does not stand on the unconscious, it stands
                                                for the progressive unfolding of deeper and deeper layers of
                                                conscious penetration. That means that Nine Hierarchies, say, and
                                                Nine layers of the inner Earth and Nine fields of soul development
                                                in the human being are all part of the accurate, science of the maps
                                                of human cognition and the worlds around us.

                                                The fact that the stars play a part has also been brought up here as
                                                the 12 pairs of Cranial nerves that are the literal, pin-prick and
                                                compass that forms the human brain, and gives each individual a time
                                                stamp and a specific compass point, a karmic talent and capcity POV
                                                that is unique to the birth of each human being. This brain sheath
                                                and skull as well as the Dodecahedron has been generously explored
                                                here. So indeed Star movements and how the TWELVE operated around
                                                the Christ as a stabalizing field for the immense Elohim, Christ, in
                                                a warm field of Olive Trees and in the super warmed blood of the
                                                Hebrew people with their specific Iron forces... All this was to
                                                root the immense Sun Being and anchor it into Jesus.

                                                Then, to top it all off, the entire cellular structure glows with
                                                such a powerful light at the Transfiguration that the entire
                                                mysteries of matter, down to the very core of the bones, is infused
                                                and penetrated with a cosmic light. I can only thank-you profusely
                                                for offering your wonderful Jungian curiosity to the stable
                                                foundations of Spiritual Science. Because Anthro Jungians, which
                                                there are many of us, also need to get with the program that this is
                                                not the vague unconscious we are dealing with.
                                              • organicethics@sympatico.ca
                                                Interesting, I think clarification is being called upon. Here’s one small example: The big picture includes the collective unconscious (the Akasha) which
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
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                                                  Interesting, I think clarification is being called upon. Here’s one small example:

                                                  The 'big picture' includes the collective unconscious (the Akasha) which you think
                                                  is against anthroposophy (your reflection). No spirit (individual soul) can operate without a Karmic symbol (imprint/spiritual configuration animated by spiritual beings) in the unconscious, all spirits, phantom worlds and "eigth spheres" all have a reflection (living reality in the occult world) in the unconscious, they cannot be created without ideation (the participation of the thinking soul/spirit).

                                                  Godot, Theosophy gets you deep with the typical disorganization. Anthroposophy offers the opportunity for Occult experience with the safeguards against getting ‘muddled’.

                                                  Godot, be my guest, go do your thing, it’s your destiny, it’s you who ultimately answers for your actions and choices.

                                                  But rest assured, that if you send ME psychic ‘threats’, you’ll get sunken…!

                                                  Have a nice evening Godot, and be nice to people, Carol.

                                                  >
                                                  > From: "opetha" <opetha@...>
                                                  > Date: 2006/10/06 Fri PM 02:41:21 EST
                                                  > To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: Amoeba contra Manu
                                                  >
                                                  > "Dear Godot,
                                                  >
                                                  > Perhaps next time around you'll possess the great courage necessary
                                                  > to take on the `big picture'. Please take note that your inner urge
                                                  > to directly wrestling with Anthroposophy has now
                                                  > figuratively `sprinkled your soul with a light drizzle'. >
                                                  > May the heavens ray down upon you... in sympathy, Carol"
                                                  >
                                                  > The jehovah's witnesses are saying the same thing to you. This is an
                                                  > anthroposophy site , if it was a Jung site you'd get the same
                                                  > sectarian onanism from them. Human beings are not free of poison,
                                                  > carol, this includes you.
                                                  >
                                                  > The 'big picture' includes the collective unconscious which you think
                                                  > is against anthroposophy. No spirit can operate without a Karmic
                                                  > symbol in the unconscious, all spirits, phantom worlds and "eigth
                                                  > spheres" all have a reflection in the unconscious, they cannot be
                                                  > created without ideation.
                                                  >
                                                  > A familiar spirit I use to kill or heal someone cannot work unless
                                                  > that person's unconscious exhumes the right Karma. The spirit knows
                                                  > NOTHING about the unconscious and thinks that he is "divining"
                                                  > himself psychically that he can kill
                                                  > or heal someone. If he does heal, the spirit thinks that he did it by
                                                  > his own effort. But the unconscious symbols, or archetypes, as we can
                                                  > see by progression astrology is shown by that dead or healed
                                                  > persons's horoscope; the aspects produced are synchronized to the
                                                  > causel éffect. So, you see, these two worlds of unconscious and
                                                  > conscious spirit are paralell. But because you have week intuition
                                                  > you cannot see this, so you make up a lot of abstract rules to
                                                  > entertain consciousness.
                                                  > Totality--"christ etheric"---is only acheived through union of the
                                                  > opposites. It is the resting of all spirit.
                                                  >
                                                  > You have no balance and are threatened by this testament.
                                                  >
                                                  > DE FABIS ABSTINUTO.
                                                  > Godot
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN WROTH !
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Your thoughts are valued, bradford. It doesn't matter in the end,
                                                  > > we
                                                  > > > all have our own opinions and beliefs. And mine, personally: I
                                                  > > would
                                                  > > > rather opt with the planetary show of karma than the idea of the
                                                  > > 33
                                                  > > > and 72. If only more people would look at their progressed
                                                  > > horoscope
                                                  > > > they, including old milky, would see the troubles in there (33,
                                                  > > 34,
                                                  > > > or whenever)transient, yes, but still very deadly.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Look at Nelson Mandala's progressed horoscope, it had
                                                  > > > saturn (detri in Cancer, incarceration) forming square to Pluto
                                                  > > when
                                                  > > > he went to prison between 1968-1984, this type of life aspect
                                                  > > lasts a
                                                  > > > long time because of the planets slow speed holding out. This
                                                  > > system
                                                  > > > has
                                                  > > > never known to fail, and like your interpretations of
                                                  > synchronicity
                                                  > > > , and the whole of spirituality, it is not founded by
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > (a) energy
                                                  > > > or (b) causality
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Your etheric christ comes from WITHOUT mine from WITHIN. Jung was
                                                  > > not
                                                  > > > a spiritualist and looked at the fair, subjective, empiricism of
                                                  > > the
                                                  > > > SELF, which is the centre of the Karma wheel. Christ, for me, was
                                                  > > > tempted my Satan in the desert as Buddha was by Mara under the
                                                  > > jambu
                                                  > > > tree. To understand Jung you have to forsake ideas of spirit and
                                                  > > > energy and INSTITUTIONAL truths for the IMMORTAL truths. His
                                                  > > > quaternary of the types balanced all viewpoints, and thus the
                                                  > > centre
                                                  > > > was a still and eternal image of gracious compromise between the
                                                  > > > types, not "melancholic" STEREOtypes (.....most clown-faced goths
                                                  > > > have a Gemini--air--attribute and are rational function types).
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Saying jung was a rubbish spiritualist is like a Muslim saying
                                                  > > that
                                                  > > > the holocaust was a stunt by the Jews, its an institutional truth
                                                  > > by
                                                  > > > a nominalist mind. It's just not everyone's duty to see life from
                                                  > > the
                                                  > > > bottom upwards and understand an empirical foundation for the
                                                  > > > sheer "art" of their colourful, energic, spiritual way.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > "DE FABIS ABSTINUTO"
                                                  > > > -Pythagoras
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Godot.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                                  > <holderlin66@>
                                                  > > > wrote:
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Godot wrote:
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish
                                                  > > school
                                                  > > > > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will
                                                  > > use
                                                  > > > > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                                  > > > > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                                  > > > > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the
                                                  > stars
                                                  > > > > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                                  > > > > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound
                                                  > > your
                                                  > > > > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                                                  > > this
                                                  > > > > not so?"
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                                  > > > > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of
                                                  > the
                                                  > > > > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age
                                                  > for
                                                  > > > > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                                  > > > > Things."
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Bradford comments;
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human
                                                  > being.
                                                  > > > > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal.
                                                  > > But
                                                  > > > we
                                                  > > > > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                                  > > > point
                                                  > > > > means better than the current Jungians.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age
                                                  > > 33.
                                                  > > > > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the
                                                  > > world
                                                  > > > > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                                                  > > Declaration
                                                  > > > > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing
                                                  > > Religious
                                                  > > > > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33,
                                                  > at
                                                  > > > > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space
                                                  > > of
                                                  > > > > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become
                                                  > > one
                                                  > > > of
                                                  > > > > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                                  > > > > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                                  > > > three
                                                  > > > > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                                  > > > > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                                  > > > > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                                  > > > > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of
                                                  > > Biography.
                                                  > > > > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                                  > > > seven-
                                                  > > > > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the
                                                  > > archetype
                                                  > > > > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                                  > > > particularly
                                                  > > > > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                                                  > > The
                                                  > > > > book goes into detail about the need to understand the
                                                  > > importance
                                                  > > > of
                                                  > > > > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                                  > > > > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                                                  > > chart
                                                  > > > > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea,
                                                  > > and
                                                  > > > > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived
                                                  > > and I
                                                  > > > > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I
                                                  > find
                                                  > > > > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                                  > > > > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work
                                                  > > and
                                                  > > > > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain
                                                  > > even
                                                  > > > > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a
                                                  > > Mercury
                                                  > > > > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real
                                                  > gem."
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Bradford concludes;
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science.
                                                  > Previously
                                                  > > we
                                                  > > > > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                                  > > > with
                                                  > > > > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and
                                                  > > the
                                                  > > > > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart;
                                                  > > the
                                                  > > > > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                                  > > > > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                                  > > > > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find
                                                  > the
                                                  > > > > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33
                                                  > > years
                                                  > > > > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                                  > > > 1933
                                                  > > > > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                                                  > > Ahriman
                                                  > > > > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is
                                                  > > exposed
                                                  > > > to
                                                  > > > > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                                  > > > recrossed
                                                  > > > > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to
                                                  > > what
                                                  > > > we
                                                  > > > > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                                                  > > elemental
                                                  > > > > intensity and GUILT.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                                  > > > > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                                  > > > > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces
                                                  > > that
                                                  > > > > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I
                                                  > > AM,
                                                  > > > > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away
                                                  > > from
                                                  > > > > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                                                  > > when
                                                  > > > > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                                  > > > > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of
                                                  > > the
                                                  > > > > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                                  > > > > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic
                                                  > math
                                                  > > > and
                                                  > > > > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world
                                                  > > and
                                                  > > > > Man.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as
                                                  > > possible
                                                  > > > > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                                  > > > > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                                  > > > > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                                                  > > incubate
                                                  > > > > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that
                                                  > > point.
                                                  > > > > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                                                  > > Christ
                                                  > > > > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language,
                                                  > brain,
                                                  > > > > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away,
                                                  > > looking
                                                  > > > > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                                                  > > developed
                                                  > > > > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot,
                                                  > fully
                                                  > > > > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and
                                                  > > as
                                                  > > > > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra
                                                  > > to
                                                  > > > > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's
                                                  > depicts
                                                  > > > the
                                                  > > > > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                                                  > > Zarathustra
                                                  > > > > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest
                                                  > > prepared
                                                  > > > > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this
                                                  > > loving,
                                                  > > > > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                                                  > > Elohim
                                                  > > > > Christ.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                                                  > > Zarathustra
                                                  > > > > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                                                  > > clarified
                                                  > > > > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom
                                                  > > ever
                                                  > > > > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                                  > > > > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a
                                                  > > gift
                                                  > > > to
                                                  > > > > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't
                                                  > examine
                                                  > > > all
                                                  > > > > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                                  > > > > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched
                                                  > > althought
                                                  > > > > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                                  > > > > mysteries to us.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting
                                                  > each
                                                  > > > > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                                                  > > live
                                                  > > > > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                                                  > > Take
                                                  > > > > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region
                                                  > > of
                                                  > > > > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought
                                                  > this
                                                  > > I
                                                  > > > > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                                                  > > the
                                                  > > > > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world
                                                  > > over
                                                  > > > > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds,
                                                  > > Goethe,
                                                  > > > > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                                                  > > Christ
                                                  > > > > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                                  > > > family
                                                  > > > > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                                  > > > family!!
                                                  > > > > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                                  > > > > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                                  > > > > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger
                                                  > or
                                                  > > > > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                                  > > > with
                                                  > > > > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                                  > > > > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                                                  > > titles
                                                  > > > > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative
                                                  > > of
                                                  > > > > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                                  > > > science
                                                  > > > > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at
                                                  > > age
                                                  > > > 30
                                                  > > > > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting
                                                  > > confrontation
                                                  > > > > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                                  > > > > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                                  > > > > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd
                                                  > say
                                                  > > we
                                                  > > > > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list
                                                  > > of
                                                  > > > > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                                                  > > places
                                                  > > > > in the bushes.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > This is all that you need to remember about the difference
                                                  > > between
                                                  > > > > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                • opetha
                                                  Hello, OK, organicethics, but akash = unconcsious is a major blunder of childish proportions. You are embarressing. You say: But rest assured, that if you
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Oct 7, 2006
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                                                    Hello,

                                                    OK, organicethics, but akash = unconcsious is a major blunder of
                                                    childish proportions. You are embarressing.

                                                    You say:

                                                    "But rest assured, that if you send ME psychic `threats', you'll get
                                                    sunken…!"

                                                    You have a major ego problem as well. Capital "ME"? You have sunk
                                                    yourself with this already. You will not attain to the things you speak
                                                    and read of if you think in terms of childish ego squabbles.

                                                    But look forward to something "red". . . . . . . . .(?)

                                                    temhamitnA.
                                                  • carol
                                                    Peace; man! ... get ... speak
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Oct 9, 2006
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                                                      Peace; man!

                                                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "opetha" <opetha@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Hello,
                                                      >
                                                      > OK, organicethics, but akash = unconcsious is a major blunder of
                                                      > childish proportions. You are embarressing.
                                                      >
                                                      > You say:
                                                      >
                                                      > "But rest assured, that if you send ME psychic `threats', you'll
                                                      get
                                                      > sunken…!"
                                                      >
                                                      > You have a major ego problem as well. Capital "ME"? You have sunk
                                                      > yourself with this already. You will not attain to the things you
                                                      speak
                                                      > and read of if you think in terms of childish ego squabbles.
                                                      >
                                                      > But look forward to something "red". . . . . . . . .(?)
                                                      >
                                                      > temhamitnA.
                                                      >
                                                    • carol
                                                      Bradford wrote: `Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point Though I
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Oct 10, 2006
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                                                        Bradford wrote:

                                                        `Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ incubate
                                                        and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point'


                                                        Though I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having
                                                        embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral' beauty in
                                                        my 32th year, (which incidentally has me still marveling), it's
                                                        worth noting that I know that at that time, I wasn't ripe to absorb
                                                        the `living' meaning of the statement concerning Zarathustra and
                                                        Christ.

                                                        (Of course, Z's soul/spirit's participation in the mystery was quite
                                                        THE exception)

                                                        For this, I was only really able to incorporate into my conscious
                                                        experience, in a living way, without hesitation, only recently, just
                                                        past my mid forties.

                                                        Would YOU say that this `mature' experience points towards the
                                                        reasons why Steiner insisted on individuals waiting until their
                                                        forties before assuming an `authoritative' voice vis ä vis
                                                        spiritual science?

                                                        As opposed to creating (deciphering) theories/art forms from
                                                        within `the lively experience of youth'.

                                                        Here are two distinct life stages which are spaced out and differ in
                                                        caracter: exceptional creative inspiration within (the fountain of)
                                                        youth and unwavering conscious soul experience (through having
                                                        processed enough complex `life' experiences and also from possessing
                                                        an intuitive experience of mortality)

                                                        Would you like to elaborate on these ideas? Carol.

                                                        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                                        <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Godot wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > "A few days ago there was that guy who walked into an Amish school
                                                        > and shot 11 girls in the back of the head, to be crude I will use
                                                        > him as an example of someone who can be cured by analytical
                                                        > psychology, but NOT by anthroposophy, becase he cannot take the
                                                        > leaps of faith and consequent thought-excersizes up in the stars
                                                        > until he confronts himself on the Earth, no matter
                                                        > how "scavangering" this will be to him. You want to propound your
                                                        > science through cosmic rhetoric more than you want to heal, is
                                                        this
                                                        > not so?"
                                                        >
                                                        > "You know, Christ was crucified at age 33," says actor-turned-
                                                        > writer/director Peter Berg, "and they say Buddha came out of the
                                                        > forest and attained enlightenment at 33. It's a critical age for
                                                        > men. I'm 35 now. But when I was 33, I started writing Very Bad
                                                        > Things."
                                                        >
                                                        > Bradford comments;
                                                        >
                                                        > Let's take a look at this 32 year old milk delivery human being.
                                                        > Firstly it is known that 30 to 34 is the age of going Postal. But
                                                        we
                                                        > can understand what this 33 year mid-line earthly biographical
                                                        point
                                                        > means better than the current Jungians.
                                                        >
                                                        > John Belushi overdosed and dead at 33. Chris Farley dead at age 33.
                                                        > Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743-July 4, 1826) is known the world
                                                        > over as the principal author, in 1776 at age 33, of the
                                                        Declaration
                                                        > of Independence; as author of the Bill for Establishing Religious
                                                        > Freedom instituting separation of church and state in Virginia.
                                                        >
                                                        > María Eva Duarte de Perón, alias Evita died at the age of 33, at
                                                        > 8:23 p.m. on July 26, 1952.
                                                        >
                                                        > 1987 (Age 32) BILL GATES
                                                        >
                                                        > Age 32 1987 - Windows 2.0
                                                        >
                                                        > (1988 BILL GATES - AGE 33 MICROSOFT WINDOWS)
                                                        >
                                                        > In 1836 Emerson was 33. In the summer of 1836 within the space of
                                                        > just two months, Emerson met Margaret Fuller who would become one
                                                        of
                                                        > the most significant intellectual relationships of his life; he
                                                        > finished and published his first book, Nature, and he met with
                                                        three
                                                        > friends to plan an ongoing symposium on new religious and
                                                        > philosophical thought which would begin the movement eventually
                                                        > labeled "Transcendentalism."
                                                        >
                                                        > The Human Life by George O'Neil
                                                        >
                                                        > " Great Book On Biography and Spirituality, July 25, 2005
                                                        > George O'Neil did a great job by writing this study of Biography.
                                                        > The book describes the unfolding of the human life in terms of
                                                        seven-
                                                        > year cycles and the challenges we face in keeping up the archetype
                                                        > of being human. Every seven years a new task lies ahead
                                                        particularly
                                                        > after the age of 27 when most humans cease to develop inwardly.
                                                        The
                                                        > book goes into detail about the need to understand the importance
                                                        of
                                                        > a continuing self - education. There are some great chapters on
                                                        > karmic companions, moon nodes etc.
                                                        >
                                                        > In any case the book comes with a life chart or life map. The
                                                        chart
                                                        > has four perspectives: the physical, life, passions and idea, and
                                                        > karmic levels. The life chart is really brilliantly conceived and
                                                        I
                                                        > personlly fill it out every birthday. After several years I find
                                                        > myself able to recall in an artistic way very intimate details,
                                                        > unresolved conflicts etc. by redoing and studying this chart.
                                                        >
                                                        > George included and made practical a wealth of Steiner's work and
                                                        > insight. This wise and neglected book is difficult to attain even
                                                        > through amazon. It is not clear whether there is in fact a Mercury
                                                        > Press in existence. Those who can find the book have a real gem."
                                                        >
                                                        > Bradford concludes;
                                                        >
                                                        > Life is a blur or Life is truly biographical science. Previously
                                                        we
                                                        > have examined that the etheric heart of the human being matures
                                                        with
                                                        > first a pure cosmic picture in the baby; the etheric heart and the
                                                        > change of teeth makes further adapations to the cosmic heart; the
                                                        > astral heart arises with sexual maturity and further astral and
                                                        > personality forces that are woven into it; and finally the I AM
                                                        > heart emerges in this specific age range field where we find the
                                                        > human being dead center, mid-point, at the most human, at 33 years
                                                        > of age, between the points of 0 to 72. 72 years looking back to
                                                        1933
                                                        > when Steiner himself would have been 72 years of age. It is
                                                        Ahriman
                                                        > who locked down for eternity the date Feb. 27, 1933.
                                                        >
                                                        > What happens when the I AM and ripened heart condition is exposed
                                                        to
                                                        > all its depth? The milk delivery man had a dark secret. It
                                                        recrossed
                                                        > his inner eye as he approached 32 years of age. According to what
                                                        we
                                                        > have as information it came up to haunt him with powerful
                                                        elemental
                                                        > intensity and GUILT.
                                                        >
                                                        > But there is a critical learning point of development when we
                                                        > understand the Science and psychological unfolding of the human
                                                        > being, because there are standard and complex ripening forces that
                                                        > truly lead to the ultimate challenge of the fully conscious, I AM,
                                                        > human exposed heart. Zarathustra was able to fully step away from
                                                        > his bodily penetration of Jesus, first at twelve years of age,
                                                        when
                                                        > Zarathustra had collected all his former wisdom, and entered at
                                                        > twelve the other Jesus and penetrated that powerful Jesus, of the
                                                        > two Jesus children. Zarathustra then went further to deepen and
                                                        > prepare for his projected intersection, think of the cosmic math
                                                        and
                                                        > interesections of time and agreements between the Angel world and
                                                        > Man.
                                                        >
                                                        > But Zarathustra, once having fully penetrated as much as possible
                                                        > the physical, etheric, astral, sentient, intellectual and
                                                        > consciousness soul fields of the human heart, at the baptism,
                                                        > Zarathustra removed himself consciously and let the Christ
                                                        incubate
                                                        > and bring to fruition all that humanity carried up to that point.
                                                        > Zarathustra expanded away from the physical form and let the
                                                        Christ
                                                        > take what he, Zarathustra had fully prepared of language, brain,
                                                        > thought cohesion. In other words Zarathustra floated away, looking
                                                        > down consciously at the fully developed astral, the fully
                                                        developed
                                                        > etheric, all running on their own now, on automatic pilot, fully
                                                        > function and conscious digestion, will, physical movement, and as
                                                        > fully running I AM replication as was possible for Zarathustra to
                                                        > hold onto. Zarathustra and The Fifth Gospel of Steiner's depicts
                                                        the
                                                        > amazing glance back on the form, and consciousness that
                                                        Zarathustra
                                                        > watched outside of his body as Christ entered the finest prepared
                                                        > human vehicle every set free by a human maker and let this loving,
                                                        > living force be overshadowed and endowed with the Mighty Sun
                                                        Elohim
                                                        > Christ.
                                                        >
                                                        > It is a magnificent tale that tells us the reality that
                                                        Zarathustra
                                                        > had been able to give as gifts a clarified etheric, and a
                                                        clarified
                                                        > astral and finally the automatic pilot on the deepest wisdom ever
                                                        > condensed....Zarathustra, like Sting of the Police, if you love
                                                        > someone set them free... but this was set free or given as a gift
                                                        to
                                                        > something of outstanding import. And I'm afraid we don't examine
                                                        all
                                                        > the details as clearly as we could. Therefore these additional
                                                        > insights on the Science of the I AM, are left untouched althought
                                                        > Steiner was shaken to his roots as he attempted to convey these
                                                        > mysteries to us.
                                                        >
                                                        > Now how does our higher I AM come into the realm of sifting each
                                                        > thread and impulse of our conscience in order to have the I AM
                                                        live
                                                        > fully consciously in an area of our being somewhere around 33.
                                                        Take
                                                        > Jefferson at 33. Jefferson had brought his I AM into the region of
                                                        > the objectified forces of the Intellectual Soul and brought this I
                                                        > AM overshadowing into the thought code of America. Emerson felt
                                                        the
                                                        > karma and arising Transcendentalists and Romantics the world over
                                                        > and Emerson reached out to those of like hearts and minds, Goethe,
                                                        > Shakespeare, Grimm. Emerson as the Roman who wrote about the
                                                        Christ
                                                        > event at the time of Nero as Tacitus sought his deeper karmic
                                                        family
                                                        > with living consciousness. Emerson sought his deeper karmic
                                                        family!!
                                                        > Where can you ever hear such a thing with precision science of
                                                        > viewing the relation between Tacitus and Pliny the Younger?
                                                        > Tacitus/Emerson's close mentored friend was Pliny the Younger or
                                                        > Herman Grimm. These two went back a long, long way. And Emerson
                                                        with
                                                        > his powerful intellect reaches out to the Consciousness Soul
                                                        > community of mankind in his Representative Men. And Steiner
                                                        titles
                                                        > his profound Greek/Wooden, Athenian statue, The Representative of
                                                        > Humanity. Where are we required to take these insights?
                                                        >
                                                        > Now in which direction and how we study these events, as the
                                                        science
                                                        > of biography, including Bill Gates and his unfolding force at age
                                                        30
                                                        > to 35 reveals also a very dangerous and interesting confrontation
                                                        > with introspection into the well, the deep well of the I AM and
                                                        > structure of the whole CONSCIENCE. You may ask what we can tell
                                                        > Jungians about the science and speed bumps of biography. I'd say
                                                        we
                                                        > could tell Jungians a great deal. Why son, I have a whole list of
                                                        > insights that would shake vague Jungians out of their hiding
                                                        places
                                                        > in the bushes.
                                                        >
                                                        > This is all that you need to remember about the difference between
                                                        > Jung and Steiner. Jung is Anthroposophy lite!
                                                        >
                                                      • holderlin66
                                                        carol wrote: ...I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral beauty in my 32th year, (which
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Oct 15, 2006
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                                                          carol wrote:

                                                          "...I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having
                                                          embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral' beauty in
                                                          my 32th year, (which incidentally has me still marveling), it's
                                                          worth noting that I know that at that time, I wasn't ripe to absorb
                                                          the `living' meaning of the statement concerning Zarathustra and
                                                          Christ.

                                                          (Of course, Z's soul/spirit's participation in the mystery was quite
                                                          THE exception)

                                                          For this, I was only really able to incorporate into my conscious
                                                          experience, in a living way, without hesitation, only recently, just
                                                          past my mid forties.

                                                          Would YOU say that this `mature' experience points towards the
                                                          reasons why Steiner insisted on individuals waiting until their
                                                          forties before assuming an `authoritative' voice vis ä vis
                                                          spiritual science?

                                                          As opposed to creating (deciphering) theories/art forms from
                                                          within `the lively experience of youth'.

                                                          Here are two distinct life stages which are spaced out and differ in
                                                          caracter: exceptional creative inspiration within (the fountain of)
                                                          youth and unwavering conscious soul experience (through having
                                                          processed enough complex `life' experiences and also from possessing
                                                          an intuitive experience of mortality)

                                                          Would you like to elaborate on these ideas? Carol."

                                                          Bradford comments;

                                                          Carol it is great to hear your spiritual voice. (As thought is
                                                          spiritual activity). For those of us who are not Zarathustra, we can
                                                          dig up example after biographical example of how our unprepared, and
                                                          semi-karmically prepared I AM's start facing our instincts at the 30
                                                          to the 35 mark. Distinctly we can fetch Bill Gates and we can note
                                                          how his attention, mission, destiny, certainly centered on the
                                                          objectification of the Global Intelligence that could well up, gush
                                                          upwards from the deep gorge of untapped human vision, in
                                                          connectedness everywhere. Thus all those particpating, if they have
                                                          the means, would be faced with a storm of hidden information, vast
                                                          fingertip libraries of humanity, Porn, and instincts, raw thought,
                                                          Orwellian thought, Luciferically watered down or poison pill laced
                                                          thought. Ahrimanic data, numbers, cold cruel pictures of human
                                                          beastliness, the worst and most hideous beastliness in all of the
                                                          beastly kingdoms.

                                                          With this information it is not hard to see with senstive artistic
                                                          imagination and intuition how hardened, rigidified and icy
                                                          standpoints congeal to Horns. Ten horns or horned beasts that
                                                          represent rigidified, forming slowly, Corporate Political systems
                                                          that calcify into overall materialistic mind sets, that sit
                                                          comfortably in tens of millions.

                                                          When you add nano technology and how ahrimanic forces which have the
                                                          intent to rip fragments of cloned humanity out of the karmic star
                                                          fabric, such a fantasy as depicted in films like the "The
                                                          Island" "Gattica" "Blade Runner" ...where humans are grown for
                                                          replacement and organ parts, for Gold and Immortality and serve the
                                                          calcification of the disease avarice, the entire Corporate anti-
                                                          Sophia realm of The Whore of Babylon, isn't even hard to picture it
                                                          developing out of human instincts the way John saw it.

                                                          John did the best he could to describe it, rising up out of the
                                                          intinctual morass of humanity, as a great congealing Anti-Human
                                                          factoring.John's Whore of Babylon was the Shadow on Earth of bright
                                                          Sophia Star wisdom fallen into human snares. Steiner updated and
                                                          filled in some of the blanks that John left as theory and Steiner
                                                          brought us into current Michael Speak which is different than
                                                          Orwell's NEWSPEAK. At the Dawn of the Age of Light we were given
                                                          updates and clarifications of all that was semi clouded and confused
                                                          coming from human I AM events.

                                                          "Newspeak was the official language of Oceania and had been devised
                                                          to meet the ideological needs of Ingsoc, or English Socialism. In
                                                          the year 1984 there was not as yet anyone who used Newspeak as his
                                                          sole means of communication, either in speech or writing. The
                                                          leading articles in The Times were written in it, but could only be
                                                          carried out by a specialist. It was expected that Newspeak would
                                                          have finally superseded Oldspeak (or Standard English) by about the
                                                          year 2050"

                                                          Seattle Times:

                                                          "The use of powerful and well-placed words and images worked for
                                                          INGSOC. Its slogan — war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is
                                                          strength — fits like a truncheon in the cradle of shattered bone..."

                                                          Bradford continues;

                                                          Intelligent human beings don't have to be reminded that Orwell did
                                                          us a service in writing his "1984". Grotesque human regime examples
                                                          can be given that go back to France and Phillip the Fair that
                                                          overturned anything to do with the feeble voice of the Magna Carta,
                                                          on through the regime of the Inquisition and the torturing of the
                                                          Templars giving us a mid-line of 1332 that lasted well beyond that
                                                          period, to Stalin, Nazi Germany, Mao, and again the little section
                                                          of time at the dawn of the 21st century, reveals once again the
                                                          activiation of this Karmic Group, intent on ripping fragments of the
                                                          I AM out of the Star patterns. How?

                                                          Shakespeare and all that we could, if we so desired, to understand
                                                          regarding why Ahriman wishes to destroy the tool of human karma by
                                                          creating on Earth cloned replications that rip human karma to
                                                          shreds, is simply there before us in the little poetic tragedy of
                                                          the Kennedy brothers and Romeo and Juliet.

                                                          "When he shall die take him and cut him out into stars and he shall
                                                          make the face of heaven so fine that all the world will be in love
                                                          with night and pay no worship to the garish sun." Quoting
                                                          Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, Robert Kennedy at the Democratic
                                                          National Convention, 8/27/64." TAKE HIM AND CUT HIM OUT INTO STARS.
                                                          As we do when we cut little stars that are all the same because we
                                                          have scissors and we can see how the folded paper is all linked into
                                                          a whole.

                                                          Bradford concludes;

                                                          Carol and I agree that ripening, the immense instincts, those same
                                                          instincts that rose up when the milkman in Amish PA. America, at 32,
                                                          took innocent girls hostage because he could not bear to see what
                                                          the I AM of his conscience knew of his own dark, dark, intent. And
                                                          what happens when we humans get to know all the secrets of our dark,
                                                          dark intents, that are swirling in the depths of our instincts? Bill
                                                          Gates opened these vast doors to the gurgling flood gates and surge
                                                          of all that is wisdom in humanity, our own Steiner Internet and
                                                          Archive had to struggle with complacent Anthros and still does, to
                                                          meet the vast instincts humanity carries and antidote them with
                                                          Michael Speak or Michael thought.

                                                          We know that adults on the path of Initiation Schooling get to know
                                                          that these dark intincts are not meant to hit the intellect with
                                                          their raw intensity without some preparation. That at 29 at the
                                                          Saturn return, to well into the Jupiter and Saturn age of our
                                                          biography we are entrusted to digest and ripen the kind of balance
                                                          of wisdom that does not place the human being alone with his demons
                                                          but gives him or her the tools of the Consciousness Soul.

                                                          But Bill Gates opened the world to vast, vast instincts, insights,
                                                          wisdom and tools....And Bill Gates was a mere 33 to 35, and if we
                                                          just look at Bill Gates Mission, we understand that if we take the
                                                          POF and open the mystery...Now kids, open the mystery literally
                                                          means looking down into the dark well of our deepest instincts, and
                                                          the roots of our I AM. What truly disturbs one and presents one with
                                                          another aspect of looking down the Well of the I AM and looking at
                                                          the overview and understanding the horrific courage it requires to
                                                          ripen and mature... there is the example of the very well we are
                                                          speaking about, in the film, "The Ring".

                                                          Naturally it is but a film. It is but a depiction of how we
                                                          penetrate to a most horrific mystery. A mystery that has addictive
                                                          power to it. It is a disturbing little film, "The Ring". Aside from
                                                          looking down the deep well and ripening our intelligence to face the
                                                          problems we have opened up, (opened a can of worms) the POF and all
                                                          aspects of Spiritual Science call upon the student to gain their I
                                                          AM compass orientation from the depths of looking into the deepest
                                                          mysteries of the Well and roots and connections to the depths of the
                                                          Earth.

                                                          Take for instance that the Water that Christ changes into wine that
                                                          is drawn from a well, and put in clay jars, six or seven clay jars.
                                                          Now Christ is going to first change this water from the deep bowels
                                                          of the etheric earth, into wine. Ah but he doesn't just decide to do
                                                          that, there is a wedding and a surge of joy and what we call
                                                          happiness and intoxication, a point where lots of people get
                                                          together, contribute and support, offer freely their gifts to some
                                                          couple who is being wed. An astral surge runs through the close knit
                                                          wedding guests, they make bread, contribute tables, sow fabrics, get
                                                          dressed up, the farmer planted, the plants grew, the meals were
                                                          cooked, the bread and flat breads were made from the flower, the
                                                          donkey's turned the stone wheel that ground the wheat. Vegtables
                                                          helped, gnomes helped, salamandars served the Donkey's, fires and
                                                          ovens had been made and trees grew fruits and were cultivated by
                                                          human hands and olives were sprinkled over the greens and the bread
                                                          dipped in the olive oils. These utter basics are all contributed,
                                                          not from a super-market but rather are all called forth from the
                                                          treasure of old instinctive causes for celebration, community and
                                                          human union. Instinctive Causes for celebration.

                                                          Christ adds to this a new force where enthusiasm and joy change the
                                                          entire chemical forces in the clay jars, and the water drawn from
                                                          the deep regions of the Earth, in a small etheric science miracle, a
                                                          new cognitive force has been changed by the I AM's participation.
                                                          The I AM has plenty of sweet instincts in the well and in these
                                                          days, what seems to sell are plenty of bitter forces that lurk like
                                                          monsters in the well as well. Steiner was an I AM initiate and he
                                                          like the rest of us was living in a science age where the I AM was
                                                          not even on the table as a consideration. Steiner as an I AM
                                                          initiate went down the well and brought out Biodynamics, Waldorf
                                                          Education, Eurythmy and the full fledged Science of the I AM in
                                                          potential.

                                                          And one more thing, the film "The Ring" centers around the problem
                                                          of one child who has something so potent, say, a complete 24/7 wide
                                                          awake, immortal force in her that cannot die and cannot be removed,
                                                          it is an acute problem that can either be understood as our immortal
                                                          core or rejected and become the curse and bane of humanity by
                                                          rejecting it. We cannot kill this immortal core. We can only learn
                                                          to ripen our courage to grasp how each individual child can be given
                                                          the tools and foundation to cope with the great thoughts of the
                                                          world and navigate and be given a compass that holds to a true
                                                          Spiritual North.

                                                          Naturally adults who are morally ripened individual are able to
                                                          educate children and one of the Miracles of the Science of the
                                                          Consciousness Soul is the conscious curriculum structure of Waldorf
                                                          Education. Biodynamics is another raw Science of the Consciousness
                                                          Soul and a victory of the I AM in the instincts of the Earth and
                                                          Stars. Waldorf Education extends into the Angelic intervention where
                                                          humans can plant the tools of consciousness that will be needed so
                                                          that by age 32 to 72 humanity can ripen the immense depth of the I
                                                          AM. Because as Carol has said, we are not Zarathustra's. We are slow
                                                          and stubborn humans.

                                                          Zarathustra had consolidated most of his former faculties by age
                                                          TWELVE. So Zarathustra's twelve is like our age 30 in terms of the I
                                                          Am ratio of speed and growth compared to the physical body of seven
                                                          years and the etheric body and the astral body and finally the speed
                                                          of the I AM are all differently paced clocks in the human psyche.
                                                        • carol
                                                          Dear Bradford, thank you for your `rich response. I especially enjoyed reading your conclusion in it s entirety. What truly disturbs one and presents one
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Oct 15, 2006
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                                                            Dear Bradford, thank you for your `rich' response. I especially
                                                            enjoyed reading your conclusion in it's entirety.


                                                            "What truly disturbs one and presents one with
                                                            another aspect of looking down the Well of the I AM and looking at
                                                            the overview and understanding the horrific courage it requires to
                                                            ripen and mature..."

                                                            This statement touches me deeply because at the age of 22, I was
                                                            subject to a sudden metamorphoses; karmic events triggered me to
                                                            abruptly abandon the use of recreational drugs; I was almost
                                                            instantly placed in the higher worlds without education. I used all
                                                            the ingenuity, energy of my youth and all internalized experiences;
                                                            to climb the great mountain of my soul's and eternal self's wish for
                                                            me as if I was a penniless orphan, on hands and knees…

                                                            Bradford, the heavens gave me `living' Drama for which I am
                                                            eternally grateful and now, quite attached to as well. Carol.



                                                            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                                            <holderlin66@...> wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > carol wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > "...I can retrieve quite vividly the experience of having
                                                            > embodied a naturally occurring creative force of `astral' beauty in
                                                            > my 32th year, (which incidentally has me still marveling), it's
                                                            > worth noting that I know that at that time, I wasn't ripe to absorb
                                                            > the `living' meaning of the statement concerning Zarathustra and
                                                            > Christ.
                                                            >
                                                            > (Of course, Z's soul/spirit's participation in the mystery was
                                                            quite
                                                            > THE exception)
                                                            >
                                                            > For this, I was only really able to incorporate into my conscious
                                                            > experience, in a living way, without hesitation, only recently,
                                                            just
                                                            > past my mid forties.
                                                            >
                                                            > Would YOU say that this `mature' experience points towards the
                                                            > reasons why Steiner insisted on individuals waiting until their
                                                            > forties before assuming an `authoritative' voice vis ä vis
                                                            > spiritual science?
                                                            >
                                                            > As opposed to creating (deciphering) theories/art forms from
                                                            > within `the lively experience of youth'.
                                                            >
                                                            > Here are two distinct life stages which are spaced out and differ
                                                            in
                                                            > caracter: exceptional creative inspiration within (the fountain of)
                                                            > youth and unwavering conscious soul experience (through having
                                                            > processed enough complex `life' experiences and also from
                                                            possessing
                                                            > an intuitive experience of mortality)
                                                            >
                                                            > Would you like to elaborate on these ideas? Carol."
                                                            >
                                                            > Bradford comments;
                                                            >
                                                            > Carol it is great to hear your spiritual voice. (As thought is
                                                            > spiritual activity). For those of us who are not Zarathustra, we
                                                            can
                                                            > dig up example after biographical example of how our unprepared,
                                                            and
                                                            > semi-karmically prepared I AM's start facing our instincts at the
                                                            30
                                                            > to the 35 mark. Distinctly we can fetch Bill Gates and we can note
                                                            > how his attention, mission, destiny, certainly centered on the
                                                            > objectification of the Global Intelligence that could well up,
                                                            gush
                                                            > upwards from the deep gorge of untapped human vision, in
                                                            > connectedness everywhere. Thus all those particpating, if they
                                                            have
                                                            > the means, would be faced with a storm of hidden information, vast
                                                            > fingertip libraries of humanity, Porn, and instincts, raw thought,
                                                            > Orwellian thought, Luciferically watered down or poison pill laced
                                                            > thought. Ahrimanic data, numbers, cold cruel pictures of human
                                                            > beastliness, the worst and most hideous beastliness in all of the
                                                            > beastly kingdoms.
                                                            >
                                                            > With this information it is not hard to see with senstive artistic
                                                            > imagination and intuition how hardened, rigidified and icy
                                                            > standpoints congeal to Horns. Ten horns or horned beasts that
                                                            > represent rigidified, forming slowly, Corporate Political systems
                                                            > that calcify into overall materialistic mind sets, that sit
                                                            > comfortably in tens of millions.
                                                            >
                                                            > When you add nano technology and how ahrimanic forces which have
                                                            the
                                                            > intent to rip fragments of cloned humanity out of the karmic star
                                                            > fabric, such a fantasy as depicted in films like the "The
                                                            > Island" "Gattica" "Blade Runner" ...where humans are grown for
                                                            > replacement and organ parts, for Gold and Immortality and serve
                                                            the
                                                            > calcification of the disease avarice, the entire Corporate anti-
                                                            > Sophia realm of The Whore of Babylon, isn't even hard to picture
                                                            it
                                                            > developing out of human instincts the way John saw it.
                                                            >
                                                            > John did the best he could to describe it, rising up out of the
                                                            > intinctual morass of humanity, as a great congealing Anti-Human
                                                            > factoring.John's Whore of Babylon was the Shadow on Earth of
                                                            bright
                                                            > Sophia Star wisdom fallen into human snares. Steiner updated and
                                                            > filled in some of the blanks that John left as theory and Steiner
                                                            > brought us into current Michael Speak which is different than
                                                            > Orwell's NEWSPEAK. At the Dawn of the Age of Light we were given
                                                            > updates and clarifications of all that was semi clouded and
                                                            confused
                                                            > coming from human I AM events.
                                                            >
                                                            > "Newspeak was the official language of Oceania and had been
                                                            devised
                                                            > to meet the ideological needs of Ingsoc, or English Socialism. In
                                                            > the year 1984 there was not as yet anyone who used Newspeak as his
                                                            > sole means of communication, either in speech or writing. The
                                                            > leading articles in The Times were written in it, but could only
                                                            be
                                                            > carried out by a specialist. It was expected that Newspeak would
                                                            > have finally superseded Oldspeak (or Standard English) by about
                                                            the
                                                            > year 2050"
                                                            >
                                                            > Seattle Times:
                                                            >
                                                            > "The use of powerful and well-placed words and images worked for
                                                            > INGSOC. Its slogan — war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance
                                                            is
                                                            > strength — fits like a truncheon in the cradle of shattered
                                                            bone..."
                                                            >
                                                            > Bradford continues;
                                                            >
                                                            > Intelligent human beings don't have to be reminded that Orwell did
                                                            > us a service in writing his "1984". Grotesque human regime
                                                            examples
                                                            > can be given that go back to France and Phillip the Fair that
                                                            > overturned anything to do with the feeble voice of the Magna
                                                            Carta,
                                                            > on through the regime of the Inquisition and the torturing of the
                                                            > Templars giving us a mid-line of 1332 that lasted well beyond that
                                                            > period, to Stalin, Nazi Germany, Mao, and again the little section
                                                            > of time at the dawn of the 21st century, reveals once again the
                                                            > activiation of this Karmic Group, intent on ripping fragments of
                                                            the
                                                            > I AM out of the Star patterns. How?
                                                            >
                                                            > Shakespeare and all that we could, if we so desired, to understand
                                                            > regarding why Ahriman wishes to destroy the tool of human karma by
                                                            > creating on Earth cloned replications that rip human karma to
                                                            > shreds, is simply there before us in the little poetic tragedy of
                                                            > the Kennedy brothers and Romeo and Juliet.
                                                            >
                                                            > "When he shall die take him and cut him out into stars and he
                                                            shall
                                                            > make the face of heaven so fine that all the world will be in love
                                                            > with night and pay no worship to the garish sun." Quoting
                                                            > Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, Robert Kennedy at the Democratic
                                                            > National Convention, 8/27/64." TAKE HIM AND CUT HIM OUT INTO
                                                            STARS.
                                                            > As we do when we cut little stars that are all the same because we
                                                            > have scissors and we can see how the folded paper is all linked
                                                            into
                                                            > a whole.
                                                            >
                                                            > Bradford concludes;
                                                            >
                                                            > Carol and I agree that ripening, the immense instincts, those same
                                                            > instincts that rose up when the milkman in Amish PA. America, at
                                                            32,
                                                            > took innocent girls hostage because he could not bear to see what
                                                            > the I AM of his conscience knew of his own dark, dark, intent. And
                                                            > what happens when we humans get to know all the secrets of our
                                                            dark,
                                                            > dark intents, that are swirling in the depths of our instincts?
                                                            Bill
                                                            > Gates opened these vast doors to the gurgling flood gates and
                                                            surge
                                                            > of all that is wisdom in humanity, our own Steiner Internet and
                                                            > Archive had to struggle with complacent Anthros and still does, to
                                                            > meet the vast instincts humanity carries and antidote them with
                                                            > Michael Speak or Michael thought.
                                                            >
                                                            > We know that adults on the path of Initiation Schooling get to
                                                            know
                                                            > that these dark intincts are not meant to hit the intellect with
                                                            > their raw intensity without some preparation. That at 29 at the
                                                            > Saturn return, to well into the Jupiter and Saturn age of our
                                                            > biography we are entrusted to digest and ripen the kind of balance
                                                            > of wisdom that does not place the human being alone with his
                                                            demons
                                                            > but gives him or her the tools of the Consciousness Soul.
                                                            >
                                                            > But Bill Gates opened the world to vast, vast instincts, insights,
                                                            > wisdom and tools....And Bill Gates was a mere 33 to 35, and if we
                                                            > just look at Bill Gates Mission, we understand that if we take the
                                                            > POF and open the mystery...Now kids, open the mystery literally
                                                            > means looking down into the dark well of our deepest instincts,
                                                            and
                                                            > the roots of our I AM. What truly disturbs one and presents one
                                                            with
                                                            > another aspect of looking down the Well of the I AM and looking at
                                                            > the overview and understanding the horrific courage it requires to
                                                            > ripen and mature... there is the example of the very well we are
                                                            > speaking about, in the film, "The Ring".
                                                            >
                                                            > Naturally it is but a film. It is but a depiction of how we
                                                            > penetrate to a most horrific mystery. A mystery that has addictive
                                                            > power to it. It is a disturbing little film, "The Ring". Aside
                                                            from
                                                            > looking down the deep well and ripening our intelligence to face
                                                            the
                                                            > problems we have opened up, (opened a can of worms) the POF and
                                                            all
                                                            > aspects of Spiritual Science call upon the student to gain their I
                                                            > AM compass orientation from the depths of looking into the deepest
                                                            > mysteries of the Well and roots and connections to the depths of
                                                            the
                                                            > Earth.
                                                            >
                                                            > Take for instance that the Water that Christ changes into wine
                                                            that
                                                            > is drawn from a well, and put in clay jars, six or seven clay
                                                            jars.
                                                            > Now Christ is going to first change this water from the deep
                                                            bowels
                                                            > of the etheric earth, into wine. Ah but he doesn't just decide to
                                                            do
                                                            > that, there is a wedding and a surge of joy and what we call
                                                            > happiness and intoxication, a point where lots of people get
                                                            > together, contribute and support, offer freely their gifts to some
                                                            > couple who is being wed. An astral surge runs through the close
                                                            knit
                                                            > wedding guests, they make bread, contribute tables, sow fabrics,
                                                            get
                                                            > dressed up, the farmer planted, the plants grew, the meals were
                                                            > cooked, the bread and flat breads were made from the flower, the
                                                            > donkey's turned the stone wheel that ground the wheat. Vegtables
                                                            > helped, gnomes helped, salamandars served the Donkey's, fires and
                                                            > ovens had been made and trees grew fruits and were cultivated by
                                                            > human hands and olives were sprinkled over the greens and the
                                                            bread
                                                            > dipped in the olive oils. These utter basics are all contributed,
                                                            > not from a super-market but rather are all called forth from the
                                                            > treasure of old instinctive causes for celebration, community and
                                                            > human union. Instinctive Causes for celebration.
                                                            >
                                                            > Christ adds to this a new force where enthusiasm and joy change
                                                            the
                                                            > entire chemical forces in the clay jars, and the water drawn from
                                                            > the deep regions of the Earth, in a small etheric science miracle,
                                                            a
                                                            > new cognitive force has been changed by the I AM's participation.
                                                            > The I AM has plenty of sweet instincts in the well and in these
                                                            > days, what seems to sell are plenty of bitter forces that lurk
                                                            like
                                                            > monsters in the well as well. Steiner was an I AM initiate and he
                                                            > like the rest of us was living in a science age where the I AM was
                                                            > not even on the table as a consideration. Steiner as an I AM
                                                            > initiate went down the well and brought out Biodynamics, Waldorf
                                                            > Education, Eurythmy and the full fledged Science of the I AM in
                                                            > potential.
                                                            >
                                                            > And one more thing, the film "The Ring" centers around the problem
                                                            > of one child who has something so potent, say, a complete 24/7
                                                            wide
                                                            > awake, immortal force in her that cannot die and cannot be
                                                            removed,
                                                            > it is an acute problem that can either be understood as our
                                                            immortal
                                                            > core or rejected and become the curse and bane of humanity by
                                                            > rejecting it. We cannot kill this immortal core. We can only learn
                                                            > to ripen our courage to grasp how each individual child can be
                                                            given
                                                            > the tools and foundation to cope with the great thoughts of the
                                                            > world and navigate and be given a compass that holds to a true
                                                            > Spiritual North.
                                                            >
                                                            > Naturally adults who are morally ripened individual are able to
                                                            > educate children and one of the Miracles of the Science of the
                                                            > Consciousness Soul is the conscious curriculum structure of
                                                            Waldorf
                                                            > Education. Biodynamics is another raw Science of the Consciousness
                                                            > Soul and a victory of the I AM in the instincts of the Earth and
                                                            > Stars. Waldorf Education extends into the Angelic intervention
                                                            where
                                                            > humans can plant the tools of consciousness that will be needed so
                                                            > that by age 32 to 72 humanity can ripen the immense depth of the I
                                                            > AM. Because as Carol has said, we are not Zarathustra's. We are
                                                            slow
                                                            > and stubborn humans.
                                                            >
                                                            > Zarathustra had consolidated most of his former faculties by age
                                                            > TWELVE. So Zarathustra's twelve is like our age 30 in terms of the
                                                            I
                                                            > Am ratio of speed and growth compared to the physical body of
                                                            seven
                                                            > years and the etheric body and the astral body and finally the
                                                            speed
                                                            > of the I AM are all differently paced clocks in the human psyche.
                                                            >
                                                          • holderlin66
                                                            The tell tale signs of a hot choleric character profile, who merges with fire, the fire of ideas, the candle flame, and writes a wonderful play on that flame
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Nov 19, 2006
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                                                              The tell tale signs of a hot choleric character profile, who merges
                                                              with fire, the fire of ideas, the candle flame, and writes a
                                                              wonderful play on that flame called the Candle Maker that had
                                                              ignited like a lit flame in his intellect. Bruno represents living
                                                              and dying by the fiery temperament and character of the choleric
                                                              thinker, doer, who feeds off resistance and human ignorance in the
                                                              dawning age of mighty light that ripped through his thinking.

                                                              Bruno and Waldorf education understands human realities as the basis
                                                              of grasping that Bruno was born near the active sulphur spewing
                                                              volcano Vesuvius and we can see how powerfully this environment
                                                              infused into his blood the fire salamanders from our previous
                                                              temperament studies. When we actually understand the clues of
                                                              various individual destinies, we can also take into consideration
                                                              where an individual grew up and was born and what impressed his
                                                              early etheric development. Here we see what impressed Giordano
                                                              Bruno's early etheric development.

                                                              http://pages.zoom.co.uk/thuban/html/bruno.html

                                                              "In the year 1548 an Italian boy was born in the little town of
                                                              Nola, not far from Vesuvius. Although, he spent the greater part of
                                                              his life in hostile and foreign countries he was drawn back to his
                                                              home at the end of his travels and after he had written nearly
                                                              twenty books.

                                                              When he was thirteen years old he began to go to school at the
                                                              Monastery of Saint Domenico. It was a famous place. Thomas Aquinas,
                                                              himself a Dominican, had lived there and taught. Within a few years
                                                              Bruno had become a Dominican priest.

                                                              It was not long before the monks of Saint Dominico began to learn
                                                              something about the extraordinary enthusiasm of their young
                                                              colleague. He was frank, outspoken and lacking in reticence. It was
                                                              not long before he got himself into trouble. It was evident that
                                                              this boy could not be made to fit into Dominican grooves. One of
                                                              the first things that a student has to learn is to give the teacher
                                                              the answers that the teacher wants. The average teacher is the
                                                              preserver of the ancient land marks. The students are his audience.
                                                              They applaud but they must not innovate. They must learn to labor
                                                              and to wait. It was not Bruno's behavior but his opinions that got
                                                              him into trouble.

                                                              He ran away from school, from his home town, from his own country
                                                              and tried to find among strangers and foreigners a congenial
                                                              atmosphere for his intellectual integrity that he could not find at
                                                              home. It is difficult not to get sentimental about Bruno. He was a
                                                              man without a country and, finally, without a church.

                                                              Bruno was interested in the nature of ideas. Although the name was
                                                              not yet invented it will be perfectly proper to dub Bruno as an
                                                              epistemologist, or as a pioneer Semanticist. He takes fresh stock
                                                              of the human mind."

                                                              http://snowbarsk.autoklad.com/images/zasimovich/sculpture/5.jpg

                                                              Choleric type;

                                                              Now the hot blooded and fiery choleric, can be found in Emergency
                                                              Rooms and in Medics everywhere. They are not always fiery red-headed
                                                              carrot tops that always stare at you with 'come on, go ahead, I can
                                                              take ya' faces. That fire appears in the soft embering glow of
                                                              Steiner's in depth lectures, fiery Michael forces supercharged his
                                                              blood, where the warmth in his Iron and Light ignited spirit flares
                                                              that revealed clarity where there was gathering darkness. His words
                                                              rang as consecrated light in all directions. Fission, fusion and
                                                              Iron centered sun spirituality cooked Steiner's rich dishes with a
                                                              warm, kindled, human blaze.

                                                              But then again, on the battle front of life, saving lives, from fire
                                                              men and women to police and swat teams to search and rescue on the
                                                              high seas, to special forces teams, you hear the choleric
                                                              shout, 'GO, GO, GO, GO!'. Adrenaline junkies can be found working
                                                              rush hours in restaurants, on the cooking line in the heat of the
                                                              battle, where the grills spit fire right in their faces and they
                                                              spit back. Choleric fire is in all of us, even Tiger Woods breaks
                                                              from his Zen mode to get really pissed off sometimes.

                                                              "Some people – and all narcissists – are addicted to excitement, to
                                                              the adrenaline rush, to the danger inevitably and invariably
                                                              involved. They are the adrenaline junkies. All narcissists are
                                                              adrenaline junkies – but not all adrenaline junkies are narcissists.

                                                              Thus, an adrenaline junkie must have a supply, a feed, which always
                                                              comes with invented excitement, real or invented drama or emotional
                                                              drama queens that have choleric forces in their feeling life. We can
                                                              understand that choleric forces or any of the other temperaments can
                                                              lodge themselves, not only in the will, but in the feeling, and in
                                                              the region of mental aggression. On the one hand solid Choleric
                                                              types are described as closer to the ground, Napoleonic and over
                                                              confident. In a pinch you know that a Choleric will cover your back,
                                                              fight to the death and remain in the game though anxiety is
                                                              everywhere and the odds against you are everywhere a great choleric
                                                              will be the last face you see before you pass out.
                                                            • holderlin66
                                                              Correction fire elemental of the choleric system http://phopro.ie/earthspirit/fire_salamander.jpg http://www.matrifocus.com/IMB05/images/fire-salamander-sm.jpg
                                                              Message 30 of 30 , Nov 19, 2006
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