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Re: Transformations for the Occident - III

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  • carol
    …It is here that we can answer many questions about the Mystery of Rudolf Steiner in terms of how his great movement with its vision for the
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 27, 2006
      "…It is here that we can answer
      many questions about the Mystery of Rudolf Steiner in terms of how
      his great movement with its vision for the spiritual-evolutionary
      destiny of man could have come to such an untimely demise in the
      same year he died.…

      …then how could this movement have still failed so soon after his
      death?"

      Dear Steve, I've also contemplated the question of why
      Anthroposophy as a spiritual force did not remain well grounded and
      decisive in influencing the course of world events, throughout the
      ensuing decades following Steiner's death til now; as many others
      must have.

      And since the reason `must' be a spiritual one, it therefore must
      enfolds many elements which must also require deciphering from a
      multitude of angles. Just as Steiner did in his discussions of
      single questions, through his life time and lectures.

      I don't think one should ignore the fact that Steiner's poisoning
      occurred just as the driving force of the New World Order had
      assumed enough influence to be discreetly and effectively decisive
      in determining the course of world events… Through his intimate
      association with the von Motkes before and after WW1, Steiner
      increasingly become outwardly noticed by those of whom their
      destinies was to advance the economic, technological domination of
      humanity… Steiner sympathized with von Motkes before and after his
      death, (von Motkes had attempted to maintain the integrity of the
      soul in his political/military influence) and it is very likely that
      this association allowed Steiner to define what awaited the Western
      Hemisphere (the negative).

      Anthroposophy has been around for almost a century and though it
      would appear to NOT have been influential, it is my view that Spirit
      has been meticulously determining the doses and distribution it
      needs to orchestrate the great spiritual maneuver of our time.
      There are grandiose maneuvers happening on a daily basis, this
      year, and yet they manage to only inch our humanity forward toward
      a large scale recognition that `genuine cultural expression' should
      never be forsaken; regardless of the attractions/distractions that
      are presented before the human spirit.

      At this moment, influential ruling souls in Europe are struggling
      with this realization though this type of contemplation still
      remains extremely difficult for the great economists residing on
      western Anglo soil. That which binds the hearts of these men is
      much more complex, and one can find indications of these
      obstructions in Steiner's writings, for example The fundamental
      social demands of our time.

      As a result, discreet cooperation and pressure tactics are newly
      present in the world/political theater as a result of in great part,
      the efforts of so many souls, here are in the other world on many
      levels (occult); and only because unimaginable pressure has been
      applied onto all of humanity through the fruition of the New World
      Orders conscious and unconscious plans. (principally in this last
      year).

      Steve, I disagree with you about Anthroposophy's failure. There are
      a multitude more of highlights to the picture of our day which can
      be illuminated for individual souls through `the path' of Steiner's
      spiritual science, and these souls would assuredly be assisted by
      disincarnate ones who familiarized themselves with spiritual
      occultisms in the last century.

      PS I hope if anything that you recognize this letter as a `living'
      discourse. Carol.
    • stephenm142
      Steve, Please explain further the following two points: efforts to objectivize the etheric world. And: Man must now seek communion with the Spirits of
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 28, 2006
        Steve,
        Please explain further the following two points:

        " efforts to "objectivize the etheric world." "

        And:

        "Man must now seek communion with the Spirits of Personality for his
        future spiritual growth."

        - Stephen
      • Steve Hale
        ... Just briefly, the etheric world was replaced by light speed as a universal constant back in 1879 with Michaelson s experiments to contain light. This had
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 28, 2006
          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "stephenm142"
          <celestial_vision@...> wrote:
          >
          > Steve,
          > Please explain further the following two points:
          >
          > " efforts to "objectivize the etheric world." "

          Just briefly, the etheric world was replaced by light speed as a
          universal constant back in 1879 with Michaelson's experiments to
          contain light. This had the effect of nullifying the significance of
          the etheric, and light traveling at the speed of 186,000 mps became the
          clarion of the modern scientific age. And it still exists as such
          today. But, in reality, the etheric world has never been replaced at
          all, because light speed is nothing more than an artificial measurement
          contained in an artificial device called an "inferometer".

          In 1979, exactly 100 years after Michaelson began his experiments to
          measure light speed, which subsequently replaced the ever-present ether
          with the artificial entity called "light speed" as the universal
          constant, the etheric world was redeemed by the device called
          the "micro-chip processor", which effectively gave birth to the so-
          called 'information super-highwway', which is the very medium that we
          now communicate in today; the internet.

          Now, it is the evolution of Christ in the Etheric for the past two
          thousand years that has served to effect the moralized ether that
          constitutes our earth evolution in the same way that the warmth ether
          formed on Saturn; the life ether formed on Sun; and the light-tone
          ether formed on Old Moon. Thus, the moralized ether is a function of
          the Etheric Christ Who begets the Internet as a means to begin to
          redeem the original attempt to stream the influences of the Heavenly
          Hosts of Michael back in the 1880's. This was thwarted by Soradt's
          approach to 1898. But now we have the means through the Etheric
          Christ. And it is a means that tells the truth, come what may.

          >
          > And:
          >
          > "Man must now seek communion with the Spirits of Personality for his
          > future spiritual growth."
          >
          > - Stephen

          There is a long answer to this, but the short of it is that whenever
          two or more are gathered in His Name then we commune with the aid of
          these spirits of the heavenly hierarchies. The Spirits of Personality
          are the ones that have given us what we are; Lucifer and Ahriman are
          these, retarded though they be, and Christ-Jahve represent the seven
          exalted Archai who rose to become the Elohim of the Logos. Our
          individual ego consciousness is owed to these. So, we must commune in
          conscious recognition in order for the perception to build.

          Steve
        • Steve Hale
          ... Anthroposophy s failure only extends to Rudolf Steiner s death before he could achieve the necessary catalyst that would have impelled it into the future.
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 28, 2006
            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:
            > Steve, I disagree with you about Anthroposophy's failure. There are
            > a multitude more of highlights to the picture of our day which can
            > be illuminated for individual souls through `the path' of Steiner's
            > spiritual science, and these souls would assuredly be assisted by
            > disincarnate ones who familiarized themselves with spiritual
            > occultisms in the last century.
            >
            > PS I hope if anything that you recognize this letter as a `living'
            > discourse. Carol.

            Anthroposophy's failure only extends to Rudolf Steiner's death before
            he could achieve the necessary catalyst that would have impelled it
            into the future. If he had lived for eight more years this would have
            been achieved. And he would have lived a perfect platonic life of 72
            years; perfect in that a world fellowship of free schools for spiritual
            science would have taken root under his guidance as President of the
            Free School. Alas, the presidency remains vacant to this day, and the
            second and third class remain unknown and unfulfilled. And it doesn't
            have to be that way.

            Of paramount concern to me is Marie Steiner's withholding of the
            Christmas Conference proceedings for 21 years, until 1944. This, more
            than anything else, demonstrates an egregious lack of truth and
            sincerity in a pivotal moment in time where "time was of the essence".

            Steve
          • celestial_vision@comcast.net
            ... =========== Steve, Where is the best information on the Christmas conference and the last years of Steiner s life? Is there a book, or pamphlet you can
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 29, 2006
              > Of paramount concern to me is Marie Steiner's withholding of the
              > Christmas Conference proceedings for 21 years, until 1944. This, more
              > than anything else, demonstrates an egregious lack of truth and
              > sincerity in a pivotal moment in time where "time was of the essence".
              ===========

              Steve,
              Where is the best information on the Christmas conference and the last years of Steiner's life? Is there a book, or pamphlet you can point me to?
              Thanks,
              Stephen
            • carol
              Dear Steve, the same can be said for many events of which spiritually inspired people partook. I acquired the lengthy volume Light for the new
              Message 6 of 14 , Sep 29, 2006
                Dear Steve, the same can be said for many events of which
                spiritually inspired people partook. I acquired the lengthy
                volume "Light for the new millennium-Rudolf Steiner's association
                with Helmuth and Eliza von Moltek-Letters, Documents and After-Death
                Communications", of which I managed to skim through this summer.

                That which struck me was the `immediacy' and `force' of which
                the `Spirit of the times' innately possesses to gain precedence over
                the intent of good willed souls. I have also seen with my
                own `eyes' in an unrelated event how when `destiny' raises it's
                authoritative forearm in the heavens, there was no way of stopping
                it. This falls in the realm of true mystery…

                "Marie Steiner's withholding of the Christmas Conference proceedings
                for 21 years, until 1944"

                She may have interpreted the severity of the dangers pressing upon
                her (New World Order) as an indication to lay low for a while. If
                you manage to get a hold of the book mentioned above, you will have
                a sense of the environment in which Steiner was living in and around
                the 1st World War. It resembles in feeling, the times in which we
                now live (his was a minor precursor)- risky if you expose yourself
                too much. And remember that at that time, genuine spiritual
                experience was still recognizable and accessible; it remained the
                task of the new materialistic rulers to cunningly suppress it beyond
                public access. And this was ultimately achieved through the
                humiliation of German people through their central role in 2 World
                Wars, and notably the `holocaust'.

                Which brings us to our time. The `living' idea which must now take
                hold of European aristocratic society is that " the culture" (the
                inspiration behind classical music, etc) of which they so appreciate
                is in the gravest danger of succumbing to the `Arihmanic forces'
                recently brought forth (macrocosmic incarnation) through the
                conscious/unconscious agenda of the New World Order (of which some
                partook).

                Basically I see a reality in which the Spirit of the times has
                presented European ruling society with a grand choice: either `back
                out of it' or forsake ALL!

                Carol..


















                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@>
                wrote:
                > > Steve, I disagree with you about Anthroposophy's failure. There
                are
                > > a multitude more of highlights to the picture of our day which
                can
                > > be illuminated for individual souls through `the path' of
                Steiner's
                > > spiritual science, and these souls would assuredly be assisted
                by
                > > disincarnate ones who familiarized themselves with spiritual
                > > occultisms in the last century.
                > >
                > > PS I hope if anything that you recognize this letter as a
                `living'
                > > discourse. Carol.
                >
                > Anthroposophy's failure only extends to Rudolf Steiner's death
                before
                > he could achieve the necessary catalyst that would have impelled
                it
                > into the future. If he had lived for eight more years this would
                have
                > been achieved. And he would have lived a perfect platonic life of
                72
                > years; perfect in that a world fellowship of free schools for
                spiritual
                > science would have taken root under his guidance as President of
                the
                > Free School. Alas, the presidency remains vacant to this day, and
                the
                > second and third class remain unknown and unfulfilled. And it
                doesn't
                > have to be that way.
                >
                > Of paramount concern to me is Marie Steiner's withholding of the
                > Christmas Conference proceedings for 21 years, until 1944. This,
                more
                > than anything else, demonstrates an egregious lack of truth and
                > sincerity in a pivotal moment in time where "time was of the
                essence".
                >
                > Steve
                >
              • Robert Mason
                ... the last years of Steiner s life? Is there a book, or pamphlet you can point me to?
                Message 7 of 14 , Sep 29, 2006
                  To Stephen, who wrote:

                  >>Where is the best information on the Christmas conference and
                  the last years of Steiner's life? Is there a book, or pamphlet
                  you can point me to?<<

                  There is a lot of literature about this, most
                  of it controversial.

                  I don't know that this is the "best", but
                  probably the most influential is Prokofieff's
                  *Rudolf Steiner and the Founding of the New Mysteries*:
                  http://www.steinerbooks.org/detail.html?id=0904693619

                  Prokofieff has been trenchantly critiqued by
                  Irina Gordienko: *Sergei O. Prokofieff: Myth and Reality*:
                  http://lochmann-verlag.com/gordienkoEnglish_info.htm

                  More recently, Proky has come out with this
                  massive tome:
                  *May Human Beings Hear It! The Mystery of the Christmas
                  Conference*
                  http://www.steinerbooks.org/detail.html?id=1902636538

                  Perhaps more accessible is this little book by
                  Bernard Lievegoed: *Mystery Streams in Europe and the New
                  Mysteries*:
                  http://www.steinerbooks.org/detail.html?session=54a377690b604c2424b6cb6287ca8ed0&id=0880100028

                  More on the "organizational" aspects of what
                  Steiner tried to accomplish during and after the
                  CC, probably the essential book is Rudolf Saacke's
                  *Die Formfrage der Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft
                  und die innere Opposition gegen Rudolf Steiner*

                  [Zu beziehen bei www.Libri.de
                  oder über den Buchhandel

                  [Wer sich über die Geschichte der Anthroposophischen
                  Gesellschaft der Weihnachtstagung von 1923 (AG) und den
                  Zusammenhang zwischen dieser und dem am 8 Februar 1925 aus dem
                  Verein des Goetheanum der freien Hochschule für
                  Geisteswissenschaft (VdG) hervorgegangenen Verein Allgemeine
                  Anthroposophische Gesellschaft genauer informieren möchte, sei
                  auf die in unserem Verlag erschienene Schrift von Rudolf Saacke:
                  ‹Die Formfrage der Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft und die
                  innere Opposition gegen Rudolf Steiner› hingewiesen (Zu beziehen
                  über www.libri.de oder über den Buchhandel (ISBN 3-8311-0075-0)]

                  Saacke does have a partial English translation;
                  if you ask him, he might send it to you (he
                  does understand English): <fenix@...>

                  All this is still very controversial, and the
                  "constitutional" struggle continues to this
                  very day. If you're interested, you might want
                  to join this e-group (the only one I know of
                  like it in English):
                  http://lists.topica.com/lists/Anthroposophy_Constitution/

                  More controversy: Recently Gennady Bondarev
                  has come out with his entry:
                  *Die Weihnachtstagung in geänderter Zeitlage*
                  http://lochmann-verlag.com/bondarewwtg_info.htm

                  And on and on. There's lots and lots of
                  talk on these themes, and a lot of apocryphal
                  and semi-apocryphal "information", such as
                  the story that shortly before he died Steiner
                  said that the Christmas Conference had failed
                  (*nicht angekommen*?). If you google
                  "christmas conference" with "steiner", you may
                  start to get an idea of this huge and
                  controversial subject. I don't know of one
                  "best" book that will make it all simple and
                  easy. Maybe the one by Lievegoed might be
                  the best introduction, but that's just my
                  guess.

                  Good luck,

                  Robert Mason



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                • celestial_vision@comcast.net
                  ... From: Robert Mason ... ============== Robert, Thank you once again! - Stephen ... the last years of Steiner s life? Is there a
                  Message 8 of 14 , Sep 29, 2006
                    -------------- Original message ----------------------
                    From: Robert Mason <robertsmason_99@...>
                    > To Stephen, who wrote:
                    >
                    > >>Where is the best information on the Christmas conference and
                    > the last years of Steiner's life? Is there a book, or pamphlet
                    > you can point me to?<<
                    >
                    > There is a lot of literature about this, most
                    > of it controversial.
                    ==============

                    Robert,
                    Thank you once again!
                    - Stephen
                  • Steve Hale
                    ... This, more ... essence . ... last years of Steiner s life? Is there a book, or pamphlet you can point me to? ... Stephen, Read the Initiative To All ,
                    Message 9 of 14 , Sep 29, 2006
                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, celestial_vision@... wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > > Of paramount concern to me is Marie Steiner's withholding of the
                      > > Christmas Conference proceedings for 21 years, until 1944.
                      This, more
                      > > than anything else, demonstrates an egregious lack of truth and
                      > > sincerity in a pivotal moment in time where "time was of the
                      essence".
                      > ===========
                      >
                      > Steve,
                      > Where is the best information on the Christmas conference and the
                      last years of Steiner's life? Is there a book, or pamphlet you can
                      point me to?
                      > Thanks,
                      > Stephen

                      Stephen,
                      Read the "Initiative To All", which was the first general membership
                      initiative that sought to look anew at the original conference
                      motivations and the failures that occurred beginning as soon as
                      Rudolf Steiner died. According to its author, Willy Heidt, not one
                      solid initiative has ever been achieved to this day based on Rudolf
                      Steiner's vision for a world movement of anthroposophy as a
                      superearthly event in which the gods communed with man.
                      Interestingly, this initiative was presented in 1997, which was
                      quite a pivotal year.

                      Also, GA260, which contains the complete Christmas Conference
                      Proceedings of the General Anthroposophical Society, December 24,
                      1923 - January 1, 1924, was finally published in English in 1989.
                      It contains an interesting foreword by Marie Steiner from 1944, when
                      these proceedings were first published in German. - Steve

                      ps- please read the essay below as it contains much valuable
                      background for consideration on the conference.

                      http://www.heaf.freeuk.com/nr46.htm
                    • Steve Hale
                      ... This nephew of the grand field marshal Helmuth von Moltke, the great strategist of the 19th century German Empire, was no military leader, as I m sure you
                      Message 10 of 14 , Sep 29, 2006
                        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Dear Steve, the same can be said for many events of which
                        > spiritually inspired people partook. I acquired the lengthy
                        > volume "Light for the new millennium-Rudolf Steiner's association
                        > with Helmuth and Eliza von Moltek-Letters, Documents and After-Death
                        > Communications", of which I managed to skim through this summer.

                        This nephew of the grand field marshal Helmuth von Moltke, the great
                        strategist of the 19th century German Empire, was no military leader,
                        as I'm sure you know, even though he looked the part. Rather, he
                        aspired to theosophy, and his wife's letters to Rudolf Steiner after
                        his death in 1916 are very interesting, as is his own experience of
                        seeing himself as the reincarnation of Pope Nicholas I of the 9th
                        century, surrounded by former evil popes now reincarnated as his field
                        generals at the outbreak of WWI in Germany. This vision occurred as
                        part of his nervous breakdown after being stripped of command shortly
                        after the first Battle of the Marne on September 5, 1914. He was a
                        good and decent man who was betrayed by the forces of evil that
                        surrounded him in physical bodies.

                        I don't know if this book you reference makes note of this, but he
                        communicated astrally with Rudolf Steiner for the "Karma of
                        Untruthfulness" lectures at the end of 1916 and early 1917, which give
                        the occult background of WWI, which only the spirit of von Moltke could
                        have accurately communicated so well to Rudolf Steiner.

                        Steve
                      • carol
                        From what I picked up, his `overwhelming sadness was more related to the fact that his `soul couldn t support the scope of betrayal of which was partly
                        Message 11 of 14 , Sep 29, 2006
                          From what I picked up, his `overwhelming sadness' was more related
                          to the fact that his `soul' couldn't support the scope of betrayal
                          of which was partly directed towards him, and partly directed
                          towards the `unsuspecting ' German culture and Soul. (all of
                          which relates to the military post which he assumed)

                          Maybe you should take a look at the book and perhaps allow the `guy'
                          the right to reflect on some deep questions throughout his
                          years,while at the same time assuming a military post. Would you
                          have preferred that he partook in more decadent pastimes? Perhaps he
                          would have been less sensitive to the 'mischief' obstucting his
                          idealism.

                          Anyway, the volume includes a short recollection of events- his
                          reflections and memoirs, which was blocked from proper publishing
                          and distribution ((his family caved into pressures following his
                          death) because it was thought that the information might diminish
                          Germany's blame before the international tribunal (can't remember
                          which). I have to say that discussions of wars is something I like
                          to stay clear of; I not a guy and it's not my domain; but I
                          recommend the book, it has many introductory texts and many end
                          notes, written by people who try whole heartedly to shed light on
                          just what was happening at the time. Don't expect a lot of
                          intellectual bullying, it's written by sympathetic, intellectual
                          Anthroposophists.








                          In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > ---
                        • Steve Hale
                          Dear Carol, I want to thank you for bringing this material on Helmuth von Moltke, and giving me the title of this book that came out a couple of years ago. I
                          Message 12 of 14 , Sep 30, 2006
                            Dear Carol,

                            I want to thank you for bringing this material on Helmuth von
                            Moltke, and giving me the title of this book that came out a couple
                            of years ago. I remember reading a synopsis of it back then, and
                            wanted to read it because I had been doing my own research into his
                            very significant and tragic role in the work of the antichrist in
                            Germany, and how Rudolf Steiner so coincidentally played his part.
                            It is a great story of a man foiled by the evil forces, and then
                            resurrected through the work he performed through Rudolf Steiner for
                            the world anthroposophical perspective that awaits the common
                            recognition that will someday designate future progress.

                            Steve

                            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > From what I picked up, his `overwhelming sadness' was more related
                            > to the fact that his `soul' couldn't support the scope of betrayal
                            > of which was partly directed towards him, and partly directed
                            > towards the `unsuspecting ' German culture and Soul. (all of
                            > which relates to the military post which he assumed)
                            >
                            > Maybe you should take a look at the book and perhaps allow the
                            `guy'
                            > the right to reflect on some deep questions throughout his
                            > years,while at the same time assuming a military post. Would you
                            > have preferred that he partook in more decadent pastimes? Perhaps
                            he
                            > would have been less sensitive to the 'mischief' obstucting his
                            > idealism.
                            >
                            > Anyway, the volume includes a short recollection of events- his
                            > reflections and memoirs, which was blocked from proper publishing
                            > and distribution ((his family caved into pressures following his
                            > death) because it was thought that the information might diminish
                            > Germany's blame before the international tribunal (can't remember
                            > which). I have to say that discussions of wars is something I
                            like
                            > to stay clear of; I not a guy and it's not my domain; but I
                            > recommend the book, it has many introductory texts and many end
                            > notes, written by people who try whole heartedly to shed light on
                            > just what was happening at the time. Don't expect a lot of
                            > intellectual bullying, it's written by sympathetic, intellectual
                            > Anthroposophists.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" <sardisian01@>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > ---
                            >
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