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  • Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com
    Why is there so much Bitching on this list? All of you need to get OUT of your heads and down to your heart area. You won t find the HEART in your head.
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 13, 2005
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      Why is there so much Bitching on this list?  All of you need to get OUT of your heads and down to your heart area.  You won't find the HEART in your head.  And bickering about the definition of humanism?  I can't believe it sometimes.
       
      "And until you truly have
      This ""dying and becoming,""
      You are but a troubled guest
      Roaming over the dark earth." ~Goethe
    • Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com
      Wrong one. Who is the boob? And until you truly have This dying and becoming, You are but a troubled guest Roaming over the dark earth. ~Goethe
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 13, 2005
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        Wrong one. Who is the boob?
         
        "And until you truly have
        This ""dying and becoming,""
        You are but a troubled guest
        Roaming over the dark earth." ~Goethe
      • iazul
        Hi, Maybe you re talking about another list? What other Rudolf Steiner list are you in? This one here (Anthroposophy) has been so quiet. If there was any
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 13, 2005
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          Hi,
          Maybe you're talking about another list? What other
          Rudolf Steiner list are you in? This one here
          (Anthroposophy) has been so quiet. If there was any
          bitching, I missed it all!!:)
          Iazul


          --- Cheeseandsalsa@... wrote:

          >
          >
          > Why is there so much Bitching on this list? All of
          > you need to get OUT of
          > your heads and down to your heart area. You won't
          > find the HEART in your
          > head. And bickering about the definition of
          > humanism? I can't believe it
          > sometimes.
          >
          > "And until you truly have
          > This ""dying and becoming,""
          > You are but a troubled guest
          > Roaming over the dark earth." ~Goethe
          >
          >
          >


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        • Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com
          Oh man, yeah, sorry about that. I was responding to anthroposophytomorrow. Too quick on the click there. Sometimes it just gets really too much on that
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 13, 2005
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            Oh man, yeah, sorry about that.  I was responding to anthroposophytomorrow.  Too quick on the click there.  Sometimes it just gets really too much on that list.  And right now there seems to be a RISE on the negativity there.  I understand I am young and there are many things to argue about but there is a point of departure somewhere.... Sorry about the miscommunications!!!  Chantel
             
            "And until you truly have
            This ""dying and becoming,""
            You are but a troubled guest
            Roaming over the dark earth." ~Goethe
          • iazul
            Hi Chantel Oh I checked that list before. I even considered joining there but suspected I would get caught in the animosity and bickering and lose my focus!
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 14, 2005
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              Hi Chantel
              Oh I checked that list before. I even considered
              joining there but suspected I would get caught in the
              animosity and bickering and lose my focus! So I came
              here instead. It's nicer, but so quiet! There are so
              many members, it would be great if they participated
              more. From what I saw (Maurice, Joel) people here know
              a lot and are also friendly. Still there's not much
              going on.
              It's funny but controversy for its own sake together
              with mutual aggression seem to engage people a lot
              more! Isn't it what happens on that list? Maybe we
              could try to get things going here without relying on
              that kind of thing - at least not too much!!!;)
              Wouldn't it be great? :) For somebody like me, who is
              just starting to study Anthroposophy, that would make
              for a better environment for learning I believe. And
              sometimes I wonder if people who are using their
              resources to fuel negativity there could be making
              better use of their time if they were here teaching
              and encouraging newbies like us!!:)
              Iazul

              --- Cheeseandsalsa@... wrote:

              >
              >
              > Oh man, yeah, sorry about that. I was responding to
              > anthroposophytomorrow.
              > Too quick on the click there. Sometimes it just
              > gets really too much on
              > that list. And right now there seems to be a RISE
              > on the negativity there. I
              > understand I am young and there are many things to
              > argue about but there is a
              > point of departure somewhere.... Sorry about the
              > miscommunications!!! Chantel
              >
              > "And until you truly have
              > This ""dying and becoming,""
              > You are but a troubled guest
              > Roaming over the dark earth." ~Goethe
              >
              >
              >


              __________________________________________________
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            • Alex Hicks
              Iazul, I saw your question to the affect of, sometimes I wonder if people who are using their resources to fuel negativity there could be making better use
              Message 6 of 6 , Dec 19, 2005
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                Iazul,

                I saw your question to the affect of, " sometimes I wonder if people who are using their resources to fuel negativity there could be making better use of their time if they were here teaching and encouraging newbies like us!!   ?"

                According to my understanding of some of "Steiner's" teachings of very basic premsies for receiving from the spiritual, souls expending energies to fuel negativity could not, by their very nature,  impart the warmth and freedom to give spiritual nourishment.   Behind my thoughts, below are a few paragraphs from the first chapter of "Knowledge of the Higher Worlds", speaking of the treasure of veneration, which can also be read here:

                http://wn.rsarchive.org/Books/GA010/English/GA010_c01.html

                Best Regards,

                Alex

                "The methods by which a student is prepared for the reception of higher knowledge are minutely prescribed. The direction he is to take is traced with unfading, everlasting letters in the worlds of the spirit where the initiates guard the higher secrets. In ancient times, anterior to our history, the temples of the spirit were also outwardly visible; today, because our life has become so unspiritual, they are not to be found in the world visible to external sight; yet they are present spiritually everywhere, and all who seek may find them. "

                "He must begin with a certain fundamental attitude of soul. In spiritual science this fundamental attitude is called the path of veneration, of devotion to truth and knowledge. Without this attitude no one can become a student. The disposition shown in their childhood by subsequent students of higher knowledge is well known to the experienced in these matters. There are children who look up with religious awe to those whom they venerate. For such people they have a respect which forbids them, even in the deepest recess of their heart, to harbor any thought of criticism or opposition. Such children grow up into young men and women who feel happy when they are able to look up to anything that fills them with veneration. From the ranks of such children are recruited many students of higher knowledge. Have you ever paused outside the door of some venerated person, and have you, on this your first visit, felt a religious awe as you pressed on the handle to enter the room which for you is a holy place? If so, a feeling has been manifested within you which may be the germ of your future adherence to the path of knowledge. It is a blessing for every human being in process of development to have such feelings upon which to build. Only it must not be thought that this disposition leads to submissiveness and slavery. What was once a childlike veneration for persons becomes, later, a veneration for truth and knowledge. Experience teaches that they can best hold their heads erect who have learnt to venerate where veneration is due; and veneration is always fitting when it flows from the depths of the heart. "

                "If we do not develop within ourselves this deeply rooted feeling that there is something higher than ourselves, we shall never find the strength to evolve to something higher. The initiate has only acquired the strength to lift his head to the heights of knowledge by guiding his heart to the depths of veneration and devotion. The heights of the spirit can only be climbed by passing through the portals of humility. You can only acquire right knowledge when you have learnt to esteem it. Man has certainly the right to turn his eyes to the light, but he must first acquire this right. There are laws in the spiritual life, as in the physical life. Rub a glass rod with an appropriate material and it will become electric, that is, it will receive the power of attracting small bodies. This is in keeping with a law of nature. It is known to all who have learnt a little physics. Similarly, acquaintance with the first principles of spiritual science shows that every feeling of true devotion harbored in the soul develops a power which may, sooner or later, lead further on the path of knowledge."

                "The student who is gifted with this feeling, or who is fortunate enough to have had it inculcated in a suitable education, brings a great deal along with him when, later in life, he seeks admittance to higher knowledge. Failing such preparation, he will encounter difficulties at the very first step, unless he undertakes, by rigorous self-education, to create within himself this inner life of devotion. In our time it is especially important that full attention be paid to this point. Our civilization tends more toward critical judgment and condemnation than toward devotion and selfless veneration. Our children already criticize far more than they worship. But every criticism, every adverse judgment passed, disperses the powers of the soul for the attainment of higher knowledge in the same measure that all veneration and reverence develops them. In this we do not wish to say anything against our civilization. There is no question here of leveling criticism against it. To this critical faculty, this self-conscious human judgment, this "test all things and hold fast what is best," we owe the greatness of our civilization. Man could never have attained to the science, the industry, the commerce, the rights relationships of our time, had he not applied to all things the standard of his critical judgment. But what we have thereby gained in external culture we have had to pay for with a corresponding loss of higher knowledge of spiritual life. It must be emphasized that higher knowledge is not concerned with the veneration of persons but the veneration of truth and knowledge."

                "Now, the one thing that everyone must acknowledge is the difficulty for those involved in the external civilization of our time to advance to the knowledge of the higher worlds. They can only do so if they work energetically at themselves. At a time when the conditions of material life were simpler, the attainment of spiritual knowledge was also easier. Objects of veneration and worship stood out in clearer relief from the ordinary things of the world. In an epoch of criticism ideals are lowered; other feelings take the place of veneration, respect, adoration, and wonder. Our own age thrusts these feelings further and further into the background, so that they can only be conveyed to man through his every-day life in a very small degree. Whoever seeks higher knowledge must create it for himself. He must instill it into his soul. It cannot be done by study; it can only be done through life. Whoever, therefore, wishes to become a student of higher knowledge must assiduously cultivate this inner life of devotion. Everywhere in his environment and his experiences he must seek motives of admiration and homage. If I meet a man and blame him for his shortcomings, I rob myself of power to attain higher knowledge; but if I try to enter lovingly into his merits, I gather such power. The student must continually be intent upon following this advice. The spiritually experienced know how much they owe to the circumstance that in face of all things they ever again turn to the good, and withhold adverse judgement. But this must not remain an external rule of life; rather it must take possession of our innermost soul. Man has it in his power to perfect himself and, in time, completely to transform himself. But this transformation must take place in his innermost self, in his thought-life. It is not enough that I show respect only in my outward bearing; I must have this respect in my thoughts. The student must begin by absorbing this devotion into this thought-life. He must be wary of thoughts of disrespect, of adverse criticism, existing in his consciousness, and he must endeavor straightaway to cultivate thoughts of devotion."

                "Every moment that we set ourselves to discover in our consciousness whatever there remains in it of adverse, disparaging and critical judgement of the world and of life; every such moment brings us nearer to higher knowledge. And we rise rapidly when we fill our consciousness in such moments with thoughts evoking in us admiration, respect and veneration for the world and for life. It is well known to those experienced in these matters that in every such moment powers are awakened which otherwise remain dormant. In this way the spiritual eyes of man are opened. He begins to see things around him which he could not have seen before. ..."

                "It is not easy, at first, to believe that feelings like reverence and respect have anything to do with cognition. This is due to the fact that we are inclined to set cognition aside as a faculty by itself — one that stands in no relation to what otherwise occurs in the soul. In so thinking we do not bear in mind that it is the soul which exercises the faculty of cognition; and feelings are for the soul what food is for the body. If we give the body stones in place of bread, its activity will cease. It is the same with the soul. Veneration, homage, devotion are like nutriment making it healthy and strong, especially strong for the activity of cognition. Disrespect, antipathy, underestimation of what deserves recognition, all exert a paralyzing and withering effect on this faculty of cognition."

                 

                 


                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, iazul <iazultahan@y...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Chantel
                > Oh I checked that list before. I even considered
                > joining there but suspected I would get caught in the
                > animosity and bickering and lose my focus! So I came
                > here instead. It's nicer, but so quiet! There are so
                > many members, it would be great if they participated
                > more. From what I saw (Maurice, Joel) people here know
                > a lot and are also friendly. Still there's not much
                > going on.
                > It's funny but controversy for its own sake together
                > with mutual aggression seem to engage people a lot
                > more! Isn't it what happens on that list? Maybe we
                > could try to get things going here without relying on
                > that kind of thing - at least not too much!!!
                > Wouldn't it be great? For somebody like me, who is
                > just starting to study Anthroposophy, that would make
                > for a better environment for learning I believe. And
                > sometimes I wonder if people who are using their
                > resources to fuel negativity there could be making
                > better use of their time if they were here teaching
                > and encouraging newbies like us!!
                > Iazul
                >
                > --- Cheeseandsalsa@a... wrote:
                >
                > >
                > >
                > > Oh man, yeah, sorry about that. I was responding to
                > > anthroposophytomorrow.
                > > Too quick on the click there. Sometimes it just
                > > gets really too much on
                > > that list. And right now there seems to be a RISE
                > > on the negativity there. I
                > > understand I am young and there are many things to
                > > argue about but there is a
                > > point of departure somewhere.... Sorry about the
                > > miscommunications!!! Chantel
                > >
                > > "And until you truly have
                > > This ""dying and becoming,""
                > > You are but a troubled guest
                > > Roaming over the dark earth." ~Goethe
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > __________________________________________________
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > http://mail.yahoo.com
                >

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