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Re: [anthroposophy] Not Without My Babies

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  • Lee A.
    Christine, Having had dogs and cats for my most of my life, I understand your sentiments and concerns here. I also think that there should be provisions made
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 8, 2005
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      Christine,
       
      Having had dogs and cats for my most of my life, I understand your sentiments and concerns here. I also think that there should be provisions made for those who want to move forward with their pets in times of emgerency. But I detect a certain blending of values in your post. Through ultimate compassion and concern is due the animal kingdom, a spiritual view of evolution points to a different value between humans and animals. The consciousness, experience and contribution to the earth and spirit is far different for humans than animals, including domesticated pets. Domesticated pets are advancing at far faster rate in the evolutionary scale when compared to wolves or lions or other animals lacking frequent human contact. And there is a symbiotic relationship and spiritual influence shared between domesticated animals (dogs, cats, horses, and some birds) and humans that is real. Yet their lives are not equal to humans by any means, nor are they "children" (though we can make them so).  Comparing animals to "human children" seems a bit titled as with your sister's situation. Animals are our "younger brethen" in spirit but not our children in the same sense. Often those without children redirect their need for human nuturance to animals and tend to treat them like younger children.  Some may say this is misplaced human need, and it may be with some, but it also may the case that some humans are destined to work with animals more intimately than others; and this is vital to the animal species and their future evolution and ours. As above, so below, the saying goes. Just as some humans over eons have outpaced the majority of humans (Jesus, Buddha, Ghandi, St. Francis, etc.) and assumed a leadership "role" now, so will the domesticated animals perhaps assume the same function for those who remain bound to instinct and group spirits.
       
       What comes to mind most striking is the work of  Seigfred and Roy and their devotion to the Bengali white tigers. Iif one has seen these performers work and live with these animals, a deep reverence will be felt. Nevertheless, it seems even Roy subcombed to over humanizing "his children" two or so years ago and was attacked and permanantly maimed. Another example of projection is found in the new film by Werner Herzog, Grizzly Man. It tells the story of a young man who tried to befriend and live with grizzly bears and ultimately he and his lady friend were mauled and eaten to death by a rogue bear. Countless examples of dogs injuring their owners and children can be found as well. This will probably change over time as we help free animals of some of their instinctual hertiage - but the "animal" still lives within our pets and we should respect and understand this as well. 
       
      Lee


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    • golden3000997@cs.com
      Hello Lee, I am not completely sure of the point or points you are trying to make here, but I would like to clarify a couple of things. First, in regards to
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 8, 2005
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        Hello Lee,

        I am not completely sure of the point or points you are trying to make here, but I would like to clarify a couple of things.

        First, in regards to Siegfried and Roy. Roy was NOT maimed as a result of having been taming tigers. There are a couple of different takes on what may have happened, including the fact that it was the first time they had taken that particular tiger onstage and it may have been startled or upset. But I also saw an article that made the supposition that Roy may have started to have a heart attack and the tiger sensed it. The tiger may have started toward him out of the kind of "concern" that even wild animals can show when they sense something is wrong with a human. Then, panic set in around them and the tiger attacked out of fear.

        I saw a documentary on the "Grizzly Man" just before the movie was released. The guy who lived with the bears was very mentally and emotionally imbalanced to begin with and had a very unrealistic role of himself as their "savior". He constantly took risks and got away with them, but ended up eaten by a bear that was already known to be aggressive and especially dangerous.

        I am not saying that one "should" put one's pets before their children. I even said that I had some respect for my sister's relationship with her animals. And I would be the first to say that I certainly substitute having huge affection for my cats for the fact that I never had human children. But I cringe a little at "Often those without children redirect their need for human nuturance to animals and tend to treat them like younger children." because it comes very close to sounding like the "frustrated spinster" sort of crap that has throughout history been used to label women who did not fit the norm.

        The domesticated pets such as cats and dogs have been with Mankind in very close relationship for a very long time. They are almost completely dependent on humans for any kind of a reasonable existence. They cannot effectively fend for themselves. I know of many people who regularly feed feral cats, because, even born feral, they do not revert back to the kinds of hunting skills that jungle felines have. Most feral cats who do not live in close proximity to a farmyard or urban garbage can do not survive long. And those who do live in urban areas live very miserable existences without regular human care. It is even worse for dogs, because they can't jump as high or climb into big dumpsters as easily and  rarely have the skill to catch a rodent and eat it. There is truly a world of difference between the wolf and the dog, the lion and the cat, and it is a human world. Even with horses - yes, the wild horses can live and thrive in their natural environment, but those who have been caught and tamed, and especially their offspring, quickly lose their full instinctual capacities and rapidly become dependent on humans. This is the tragedy, too, of people who acquire wild and exotic species as pets, then decide that they can't maintain them and release them "to the wild." It is usually not to their natural habitat. (I am sure very few people fly to the Amazon to release their reptiles back into the wild.) It is usually into neighborhood backyards, where the creatures suffer until they are caught by authorities or die miserably.

        Here in the US, many people live their lives incredibly entwined with their cats and dogs. As I understand it, these animals do not go back to the group soul. An anthroposophist explained it to me about 35 years ago, that they become a special kind of "salamander" or Spirit of Fire who remains around the aura of the human who loved it and who it loved and works in the spiritual realm to build bridges of love between human and animal. I realize that as I "evolve" spiritually into finer Earth and New Earth incarnations (if I ever make it that far), my critters will become human-like, the 11th Hierarchy and will begin to evolve their personal, individual souls more like we are now. I have made one of my most special babies PROMISE to stay with me forever, no matter what form we both take. Because she never was a cat. She has always been an Angel in a fur body. And she is and always will be My Little Angel.

        Like I said, I am not sure what point you were trying to make, but if it was that I was a crazy cat lady who is misplacing her love and affection and ignorant of the correct relationship of human and animal, I will say that I am a crazy cat lady who is NOT misplacing my love and affection and I am far from ignorant of what our relationship truly is.

        Christine
      • golden3000997@cs.com
        PS - someone once told me that Mark Twain learned to write with his left hand, because his cat always loved to sleep draped over his right arm. Even I am not
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 8, 2005
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          PS - someone once told me that Mark Twain learned to write with his left hand, because his cat always loved to sleep draped over his right arm.

          Even I am not THAT crazy!!

          :  ) Christine
        • Harvey Bornfield
          Once subject to brutal ironclad censure and like Luke and Princess Leia, the arcane and graphic truth to swell, truth to tell, hidden at birth from the probe
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 10, 2005
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            Once subject to brutal ironclad censure and like Luke and Princess
            Leia, the arcane and graphic truth to swell, truth to tell, hidden at
            birth from the probe of the wicked and from all derision, it can, owing
            to the expiration of an esoteric statute of limitations,
            yes..............................now it can be safely disclosed and
            shouted from the rooftops of Solomon's Temple and atop the crowsnest of
            the Golden's Arches alike, that there are indeed extant bona-fide early
            19th century (crystal-ball accessible) akashic archives of extensive,
            "frank and meaningful" Goethean conversations between Mark Twain's
            guardian angel and anonymous Second Hierarchy supersensible feline
            deva-lodge members in which a heretofore esoteric and subtle agreement
            was come to regarding the value of training Mark Twain in the left-hand
            virtues of going undercover to camuoflage acts of the right hand path.
            All, but of course, for the small inconvenient price to pay of
            manifesting Literary irony and rebellious ambience as a spice to
            LackLuster Spirits. Whereupon the cat became an agent for sourcing
            right-hand-distraction.

            ( ( Whisper in my ear, holy words, of course: I love you too, Golden!
            ) )


            Warm regards,
            The Gypsy : )

            On Thursday, September 8, 2005, at 05:39 PM, golden3000997@... wrote:

            > PS - someone once told me that Mark Twain learned to write with his
            > left hand, because his cat always loved to sleep draped over his right
            > arm.
            >
            > Even I am not THAT crazy!!
            >
            > :  ) Christine
            >
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          • golden3000997@cs.com
            Hi Harvey Darling!!! I KNEW there had to be a deeper reason!! There are books out on Literary Cats showing the very intimate connection between cats and
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 10, 2005
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              Hi Harvey Darling!!!

              I KNEW there had to be a deeper reason!! There are books out on "Literary Cats" showing the very intimate connection between cats and writers. Of course, cats are intimately connected with lots of other creative people, but writing is a nice, quiet, sedentary activity (outwardly) and cats like peace and quiet.

              Since I am using a keypad rather more often than a quill pen, I need both hands when the verbiage is flyin'. Maxi, my Angel Cat is almost always curled up between my forearms, snuggled against my very big, soft and snuggly left breast, under which (somewhere in there) my heart is beating. Since we moved, there is not as much room on the table in front of the keypad, so I am often holding her in the crook of my left arm while "hunt and peck" typing with my right hand. But she does have to get down sometimes when I'm on a roll.

              I love dogs, too, by the way, but they take more physically oriented outdoor care and I just don't have the strength to take it on without someone else around to help out if I am not feeling well. Now that I have a fenced yard, though, I hope to be able to have at least one or two (older) dogs in the not so distant future.

              Cats actually don't care what hierarchy we are, as long as we feed them on time!!! :  )

              LOVE,
              Christine

              PS - Don't forget to let me know if you are ever headin' to Houston!!
            • Lee A.
              My point is best summed up somewhere between the lines of the your last paragragh below. golden3000997@cs.com wrote:Hello Lee, I am not completely sure of
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 12, 2005
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                My "point" is best summed up somewhere between the lines of the your last paragragh below.

                golden3000997@... wrote:
                Hello Lee,

                I am not completely sure of the point or points you are trying to make here, but I would like to clarify a couple of things.

                ...........
                Like I said, I am not sure what point you were trying to make, but if it was that I was a crazy cat lady who is misplacing her love and affection and ignorant of the correct relationship of human and animal, I will say that I am a crazy cat lady who is NOT misplacing my love and affection and I am far from ignorant of what our relationship truly is.

                Christine


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