Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Fraternal Greetings and Steiners Order

Expand Messages
  • 888
    Dear Br. Cole, Welcome to the list. I have been reading the some of the postings on Frater Maui s list and have noted some misunderstandings. Firstly, let me
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 11, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear Br. Cole,
      Welcome to the list. I have been reading the some of the postings on
      Frater Maui's list and have noted some misunderstandings.

      Firstly, let me say that Dr. Steiner did not teach in a dogmatic
      manner; and also, he always tried to examine clairvoyantly for
      himself, any information he gave out to the public. As for the
      Rosicrucian path, he said any occult subject can be viewed from many
      sides- twelve in fact. So it is important to ask questions and not be
      stuck on just one point of view. (I believe you can find more on this
      in his "Theosophy of the Rosicrucians".)

      As for Rudolf Steiner's teaching that Michael is the Archangel of this
      age, he was not alone or the first with this. (Dr. Steiner told us not
      to slur the "el" and pronounce it "Micha-el".)

      Abbot Trithemius, teacher of Paracelsus, also taught this and also
      described the date of 1879 as being the start of his regency.

      From Stephen's page:
      http://www.vermontel.net/~vtsophia/zodtrop1.htm

      "Now, there is a third subordinate cycle within the decans of the
      Archangels, which is difficult to reconcile as a septenary within the
      twelvefold zodiac. In 1508 there was written a "little book on
      mystical chronology mystical chronology" by a certain Johannes
      Trithemius (1462-1516), Abbott of Sponheim. His sources had been a
      similar manuscript written by Peter of Abano (1215-1313) who was a
      learned scholar and translator of the Kabbalistic and astrological
      books of Rabbi ibn Ezra. According to the researches of Christopher
      Bamford, the first English translation of the little book was by the
      English magician, William Lilly. Later it surfaces in the occult
      writings of the Frenchman, Eliphas Levi (1855) and passed on by him to
      Anna B. Kingsford and Edward Maitland, two more English, but Christian
      occultists. From Maitland, the book passed on the W. Wynn Wescott, all
      of whom were members of the T.S. and close friends of the good Madame
      H.P.B. Indeed, there is a small footnote to Trithemius in volume I of
      the SECRET DOCTRINE, although not another word of it is mentioned.
      Wescott published it in 1896, presumably as a magic ritual for the
      members of the Golden Dawn."

      These archangelic periods are of 354 years and 4 months in length.

      Raphael doesn't precede or follow Michael in this system.

      Now there are some anthroposophical endeavours which place themselves
      under Raphael- I know there is a "Raphael college" for instance. So
      that is not extraordinary.

      I have some more points to cover, but that will do for now.

      Warm Regards,
      Bruce
    • Hogie McM
      Dear Gentlemen: As an addendum of sorts to the conversation, Dr. Steiner was well aware of, at least, the rare historical work by Trithemius of Sponheim, which
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 11, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Gentlemen:

        As an addendum of sorts to the conversation,
        Dr. Steiner was well aware of, at least, the rare historical work
        by Trithemius of Sponheim, which can be further researched in depth in
        the Appendix of 'The Archangel Michael: His Mission and Ours" ;
        whose reference dates are written by Dr. Steiner as a footnote
        in his 'True and False Paths of Spiritual Investigation',
        and also given superb treatment in an essay 'Histroical Periods and
        the Fate of Nations' written by Walter Johannes Stein, one of Dr. Steiner's
        closed and most developed pupils, in the book entitled 'The Death of Merlin
        (Floris Books).

        Best,
        Hogie


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "888" <fireofthe12@...>
        To: <anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 4:40 PM
        Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: Fraternal Greetings and Steiners Order


        > Dear Br. Cole,
        > Welcome to the list. I have been reading the some of the postings on
        > Frater Maui's list and have noted some misunderstandings.
        >
        > Firstly, let me say that Dr. Steiner did not teach in a dogmatic
        > manner; and also, he always tried to examine clairvoyantly for
        > himself, any information he gave out to the public. As for the
        > Rosicrucian path, he said any occult subject can be viewed from many
        > sides- twelve in fact. So it is important to ask questions and not be
        > stuck on just one point of view. (I believe you can find more on this
        > in his "Theosophy of the Rosicrucians".)
        >
        > As for Rudolf Steiner's teaching that Michael is the Archangel of this
        > age, he was not alone or the first with this. (Dr. Steiner told us not
        > to slur the "el" and pronounce it "Micha-el".)
        >
        > Abbot Trithemius, teacher of Paracelsus, also taught this and also
        > described the date of 1879 as being the start of his regency.
        >
        > From Stephen's page:
        > http://www.vermontel.net/~vtsophia/zodtrop1.htm
        >
        > "Now, there is a third subordinate cycle within the decans of the
        > Archangels, which is difficult to reconcile as a septenary within the
        > twelvefold zodiac. In 1508 there was written a "little book on
        > mystical chronology mystical chronology" by a certain Johannes
        > Trithemius (1462-1516), Abbott of Sponheim. His sources had been a
        > similar manuscript written by Peter of Abano (1215-1313) who was a
        > learned scholar and translator of the Kabbalistic and astrological
        > books of Rabbi ibn Ezra. According to the researches of Christopher
        > Bamford, the first English translation of the little book was by the
        > English magician, William Lilly. Later it surfaces in the occult
        > writings of the Frenchman, Eliphas Levi (1855) and passed on by him to
        > Anna B. Kingsford and Edward Maitland, two more English, but Christian
        > occultists. From Maitland, the book passed on the W. Wynn Wescott, all
        > of whom were members of the T.S. and close friends of the good Madame
        > H.P.B. Indeed, there is a small footnote to Trithemius in volume I of
        > the SECRET DOCTRINE, although not another word of it is mentioned.
        > Wescott published it in 1896, presumably as a magic ritual for the
        > members of the Golden Dawn."
        >
        > These archangelic periods are of 354 years and 4 months in length.
        >
        > Raphael doesn't precede or follow Michael in this system.
        >
        > Now there are some anthroposophical endeavours which place themselves
        > under Raphael- I know there is a "Raphael college" for instance. So
        > that is not extraordinary.
        >
        > I have some more points to cover, but that will do for now.
        >
        > Warm Regards,
        > Bruce
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • 888
        Hi Br. Cole, Continuing on from the previous discussion, here is another misunderstanding I ve found: In Message 632 Frater Maui writes- The Rosicrucian Cosmo
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 12, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Br. Cole,
          Continuing on from the previous discussion, here is
          another misunderstanding I've found:

          In Message 632 Frater Maui writes-
          "The Rosicrucian Cosmo Conception was written by Steiner, although
          published by Hiendel, and this was a key text to our Mystica Aeterna
          current at one time."
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Rosicrucian_Garden/message/632

          Count Carl Grasshoff (a Dane), a student of Dr. Steiner's, collected
          the typescripts of some his lectures before they had been published
          and took them to America. There he added some of his own touches and
          published the lot under the title of "The Rosicrucian Cosmo
          Conception", using the pen name of "Max Heindel". The first edition of
          this work was dedicated to Rudolf Steiner.

          So the Cosmo Conception has some of the elements of Steiner's teaching
          but it is not purely Steiner. There is a different teaching on the
          nature of Christ for instance, and I don't think it talks about Ahriman.

          Dr. Steiner talks about a group in California stealing his teachings
          in the Fifth Gospel, if my memory serves me correctly.

          Anyway, you can find much heated discussion on this subject in the
          archive of this list.

          Cheers,
          Bruce
        • Collin Fetero
          Ah this is quite interesting to me. Id recomend you post some of your comments on Rosicrucian Garden? I am sure they know well that they are not experts on
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 12, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Ah this is quite interesting to me. Id recomend you post some of your comments on Rosicrucian Garden? I am sure they know well that they are not experts on anthroposophy being more into the rosicrucian currents and would be open to learning more from you
             
            thank you bro for the post again shall search the archives indeed
             
            LLL Cole

            888 <fireofthe12@...> wrote:
            Hi Br. Cole,
                        Continuing on from the previous discussion, here is
            another misunderstanding I've found: 

            In Message 632 Frater Maui writes-
            "The Rosicrucian Cosmo Conception was written by Steiner, although
            published by Hiendel, and this was a key text to our Mystica Aeterna
            current at one time."
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Rosicrucian_Garden/message/632

            Count Carl Grasshoff (a Dane), a student of Dr. Steiner's, collected
            the typescripts of some his lectures before they had been published
            and took them to America. There he added some of his own touches and
            published the lot under the title of "The Rosicrucian Cosmo
            Conception", using the pen name of "Max Heindel". The first edition of
            this work was dedicated to Rudolf Steiner.

            So the Cosmo Conception has some of the elements of Steiner's teaching
            but it is not purely Steiner. There is a different teaching on the
            nature of Christ for instance, and I don't think it talks about Ahriman.

            Dr. Steiner talks about a group in California stealing his teachings
            in the Fifth Gospel, if my memory serves me correctly.

            Anyway, you can find much heated discussion on this subject in the
            archive of this list.

            Cheers,
            Bruce


             








            Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.