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Fraternal Greetings and Steiners Order

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  • strayneophyte1
    Dear List Hello to all, this is my first post and I hope to enjoy many interesting discussions with you. It an introduction can be made in any humble way, my
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 9, 2005
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      Dear List

      Hello to all, this is my first post and I hope to enjoy many
      interesting discussions with you. It an introduction can be made in
      any humble way, my name is Cole and like you I am a student of Life.
      My interest is to find out more about this forum and anthroposophy for
      that matter. My esoteric background has been with the Ancient Rose
      Cross Order, which as many of you would now know carry a transmission
      from Steiners own Rosicrucian Order founded in 1906 behind the
      Anthroposophical Society. I have also personally seen their rituals
      and the anthroposophical element is quite apparent in them

      Having said this, I am still keen as ever to return to the roots of
      anthroposophy and its inner meaning. Understanding Steiners order is
      one thing but capturing the whole through anthroposophy seems to be
      the key in terms of finding out what all those rituals really mean.

      For each other may we experiencing many warm moments, LLL Cole
    • 888
      Dear Br. Cole, Welcome to the list. I have been reading the some of the postings on Frater Maui s list and have noted some misunderstandings. Firstly, let me
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 11, 2005
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        Dear Br. Cole,
        Welcome to the list. I have been reading the some of the postings on
        Frater Maui's list and have noted some misunderstandings.

        Firstly, let me say that Dr. Steiner did not teach in a dogmatic
        manner; and also, he always tried to examine clairvoyantly for
        himself, any information he gave out to the public. As for the
        Rosicrucian path, he said any occult subject can be viewed from many
        sides- twelve in fact. So it is important to ask questions and not be
        stuck on just one point of view. (I believe you can find more on this
        in his "Theosophy of the Rosicrucians".)

        As for Rudolf Steiner's teaching that Michael is the Archangel of this
        age, he was not alone or the first with this. (Dr. Steiner told us not
        to slur the "el" and pronounce it "Micha-el".)

        Abbot Trithemius, teacher of Paracelsus, also taught this and also
        described the date of 1879 as being the start of his regency.

        From Stephen's page:
        http://www.vermontel.net/~vtsophia/zodtrop1.htm

        "Now, there is a third subordinate cycle within the decans of the
        Archangels, which is difficult to reconcile as a septenary within the
        twelvefold zodiac. In 1508 there was written a "little book on
        mystical chronology mystical chronology" by a certain Johannes
        Trithemius (1462-1516), Abbott of Sponheim. His sources had been a
        similar manuscript written by Peter of Abano (1215-1313) who was a
        learned scholar and translator of the Kabbalistic and astrological
        books of Rabbi ibn Ezra. According to the researches of Christopher
        Bamford, the first English translation of the little book was by the
        English magician, William Lilly. Later it surfaces in the occult
        writings of the Frenchman, Eliphas Levi (1855) and passed on by him to
        Anna B. Kingsford and Edward Maitland, two more English, but Christian
        occultists. From Maitland, the book passed on the W. Wynn Wescott, all
        of whom were members of the T.S. and close friends of the good Madame
        H.P.B. Indeed, there is a small footnote to Trithemius in volume I of
        the SECRET DOCTRINE, although not another word of it is mentioned.
        Wescott published it in 1896, presumably as a magic ritual for the
        members of the Golden Dawn."

        These archangelic periods are of 354 years and 4 months in length.

        Raphael doesn't precede or follow Michael in this system.

        Now there are some anthroposophical endeavours which place themselves
        under Raphael- I know there is a "Raphael college" for instance. So
        that is not extraordinary.

        I have some more points to cover, but that will do for now.

        Warm Regards,
        Bruce
      • Hogie McM
        Dear Gentlemen: As an addendum of sorts to the conversation, Dr. Steiner was well aware of, at least, the rare historical work by Trithemius of Sponheim, which
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 11, 2005
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          Dear Gentlemen:

          As an addendum of sorts to the conversation,
          Dr. Steiner was well aware of, at least, the rare historical work
          by Trithemius of Sponheim, which can be further researched in depth in
          the Appendix of 'The Archangel Michael: His Mission and Ours" ;
          whose reference dates are written by Dr. Steiner as a footnote
          in his 'True and False Paths of Spiritual Investigation',
          and also given superb treatment in an essay 'Histroical Periods and
          the Fate of Nations' written by Walter Johannes Stein, one of Dr. Steiner's
          closed and most developed pupils, in the book entitled 'The Death of Merlin
          (Floris Books).

          Best,
          Hogie


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "888" <fireofthe12@...>
          To: <anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 4:40 PM
          Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: Fraternal Greetings and Steiners Order


          > Dear Br. Cole,
          > Welcome to the list. I have been reading the some of the postings on
          > Frater Maui's list and have noted some misunderstandings.
          >
          > Firstly, let me say that Dr. Steiner did not teach in a dogmatic
          > manner; and also, he always tried to examine clairvoyantly for
          > himself, any information he gave out to the public. As for the
          > Rosicrucian path, he said any occult subject can be viewed from many
          > sides- twelve in fact. So it is important to ask questions and not be
          > stuck on just one point of view. (I believe you can find more on this
          > in his "Theosophy of the Rosicrucians".)
          >
          > As for Rudolf Steiner's teaching that Michael is the Archangel of this
          > age, he was not alone or the first with this. (Dr. Steiner told us not
          > to slur the "el" and pronounce it "Micha-el".)
          >
          > Abbot Trithemius, teacher of Paracelsus, also taught this and also
          > described the date of 1879 as being the start of his regency.
          >
          > From Stephen's page:
          > http://www.vermontel.net/~vtsophia/zodtrop1.htm
          >
          > "Now, there is a third subordinate cycle within the decans of the
          > Archangels, which is difficult to reconcile as a septenary within the
          > twelvefold zodiac. In 1508 there was written a "little book on
          > mystical chronology mystical chronology" by a certain Johannes
          > Trithemius (1462-1516), Abbott of Sponheim. His sources had been a
          > similar manuscript written by Peter of Abano (1215-1313) who was a
          > learned scholar and translator of the Kabbalistic and astrological
          > books of Rabbi ibn Ezra. According to the researches of Christopher
          > Bamford, the first English translation of the little book was by the
          > English magician, William Lilly. Later it surfaces in the occult
          > writings of the Frenchman, Eliphas Levi (1855) and passed on by him to
          > Anna B. Kingsford and Edward Maitland, two more English, but Christian
          > occultists. From Maitland, the book passed on the W. Wynn Wescott, all
          > of whom were members of the T.S. and close friends of the good Madame
          > H.P.B. Indeed, there is a small footnote to Trithemius in volume I of
          > the SECRET DOCTRINE, although not another word of it is mentioned.
          > Wescott published it in 1896, presumably as a magic ritual for the
          > members of the Golden Dawn."
          >
          > These archangelic periods are of 354 years and 4 months in length.
          >
          > Raphael doesn't precede or follow Michael in this system.
          >
          > Now there are some anthroposophical endeavours which place themselves
          > under Raphael- I know there is a "Raphael college" for instance. So
          > that is not extraordinary.
          >
          > I have some more points to cover, but that will do for now.
          >
          > Warm Regards,
          > Bruce
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • 888
          Hi Br. Cole, Continuing on from the previous discussion, here is another misunderstanding I ve found: In Message 632 Frater Maui writes- The Rosicrucian Cosmo
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 12, 2005
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            Hi Br. Cole,
            Continuing on from the previous discussion, here is
            another misunderstanding I've found:

            In Message 632 Frater Maui writes-
            "The Rosicrucian Cosmo Conception was written by Steiner, although
            published by Hiendel, and this was a key text to our Mystica Aeterna
            current at one time."
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Rosicrucian_Garden/message/632

            Count Carl Grasshoff (a Dane), a student of Dr. Steiner's, collected
            the typescripts of some his lectures before they had been published
            and took them to America. There he added some of his own touches and
            published the lot under the title of "The Rosicrucian Cosmo
            Conception", using the pen name of "Max Heindel". The first edition of
            this work was dedicated to Rudolf Steiner.

            So the Cosmo Conception has some of the elements of Steiner's teaching
            but it is not purely Steiner. There is a different teaching on the
            nature of Christ for instance, and I don't think it talks about Ahriman.

            Dr. Steiner talks about a group in California stealing his teachings
            in the Fifth Gospel, if my memory serves me correctly.

            Anyway, you can find much heated discussion on this subject in the
            archive of this list.

            Cheers,
            Bruce
          • Collin Fetero
            Ah this is quite interesting to me. Id recomend you post some of your comments on Rosicrucian Garden? I am sure they know well that they are not experts on
            Message 5 of 5 , Jul 12, 2005
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              Ah this is quite interesting to me. Id recomend you post some of your comments on Rosicrucian Garden? I am sure they know well that they are not experts on anthroposophy being more into the rosicrucian currents and would be open to learning more from you
               
              thank you bro for the post again shall search the archives indeed
               
              LLL Cole

              888 <fireofthe12@...> wrote:
              Hi Br. Cole,
                          Continuing on from the previous discussion, here is
              another misunderstanding I've found: 

              In Message 632 Frater Maui writes-
              "The Rosicrucian Cosmo Conception was written by Steiner, although
              published by Hiendel, and this was a key text to our Mystica Aeterna
              current at one time."
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Rosicrucian_Garden/message/632

              Count Carl Grasshoff (a Dane), a student of Dr. Steiner's, collected
              the typescripts of some his lectures before they had been published
              and took them to America. There he added some of his own touches and
              published the lot under the title of "The Rosicrucian Cosmo
              Conception", using the pen name of "Max Heindel". The first edition of
              this work was dedicated to Rudolf Steiner.

              So the Cosmo Conception has some of the elements of Steiner's teaching
              but it is not purely Steiner. There is a different teaching on the
              nature of Christ for instance, and I don't think it talks about Ahriman.

              Dr. Steiner talks about a group in California stealing his teachings
              in the Fifth Gospel, if my memory serves me correctly.

              Anyway, you can find much heated discussion on this subject in the
              archive of this list.

              Cheers,
              Bruce


               








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