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R: [anthroposophy] Zeus, Pallas Athene, etc a question

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  • VALENTINA BRUNETTI
    ... Hi Mark, this is a quick question but giving a !quick anzwer ........is a bit difficult. Steiner wrote and told a lot about the Greek gods and the greek
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 12, 2005
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      ----- Original Message -----

      >
      >
      > A quick question if anyone could help I'd appreciate it.
      >
      > The gods of the greeks, Zeus, Venus, Athene etc, were they
      > progressive gods?

      Hi Mark,
      this is a "quick question" but giving a !quick anzwer"........is a bit
      difficult.
      Steiner wrote and told a lot about the Greek gods and the greek Mysteries ,
      since his 1901' book on "Christianity as a Mistical Fact" (don't know if it
      is the actual title in English, since I have the Italian translation from
      the German, playing just this way).
      As a sketch we can imagine that, based on the Mysteries, the overall
      picture was as follows.
      !) A "Triadic" set of Powers "of the Beginning": Ouranòs,Gea and Cronos
      (Heaven,Earth,Time)..
      2) The Gods of "Above and Below", namely the Olympics, Zeus and C.
      3) The Work of the Gods, namely "Ananke", Lat, "Fatum" , aka "What the Gods
      decided",, the Karmic Issues.
      According to Steiner "The Olympics" are Angelic Spiritual Beings intervowen
      with the Humankind in many different ways,
      So in spite of their strong "lucipheric" gesture they are "progressive" in
      the way that they are co-working in Mankind's evolution till the days of
      Golgotha,

      >
      > In Homer, they appear to the heroes, and influence the elements, the
      > sea for example, as Poseidon the sea god does.
      >
      > But there was a lot of rivalry in Olympus, and other goings on.
      >
      > So,were they progressive, or had they backward tendencies?

      >
      Both of them, as I have explained.

      > And what about Christ? Was He in the Greek mysteries? Under which
      > name?

      The Christ- as Paul wrote- was known as "the Unknown God" of the Mysteries,
      the One the inititate met at the edge of the "three-days-long" ceremony,
      Here he was known also as the True Sun Spirit, of which the Sun gods
      Helios and Phoebus were a kind of "masks".

      > And Saint Michael, I don't think he was part of the Greek Pantheon
      > was he? Did he have another name then?

      We can see Michael bot as the Babylonian "Marduk" and the Iranic
      "Mithra".. He was able to deeply influence both Aristotle and Alexander but
      he was "unknown" as a Greekgod.
      >
      > And, also, I would really like to know what has become of a goddess
      > like Artemis, today. Is she known by another name now by the
      > initiates? Is she progressive still?

      Arthemis is very near to the Aegyptian "Isis", the Goddess. Today we can
      talk of "Isis-Sophia" as historycally emnbodied in the Mother of Jesus.,
      and linked to the "Holy Spirit" the Third Person of the Trinity,
      You can usefully read the book "Isis Mary-Sophia" , Steiner's ref on Her
      collected by C.Bamford.

      >
      > I ask all this because I'm trying to write something about the Roman
      > Emperor Julian, who has been mostly misrepresented, even though he
      > was a great figure, like Alexander; and whose great campaign in the
      > East was ended by assasination, which was tragic, considering his
      > high aims.
      >
      > Julian was an actual seeker for the Logos, He did not succeed to believe
      that the Logos was "The Man from Nazareth" mostly due to the fanatic
      ignorance of the "Christian" priests that it occurred to him to meet.
      I don't remember if Steiner told something about his further incarnations,
      ("Tycho de Brahe" maybe in the Karmic relayionships" lectures ?) but I
      believe His Entelechèià (his I AM;) to be in the right path to be somehow
      near the Logos-Christ he was looking when he was Julian.
      >
      > Hope it was be useful
      > Andrea
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy
      > Unsubscribe:
      > anthroposophy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > List owner: anthroposophy-owner@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Mark
      Thank you Andrea, this is very useful to me. I always wondered about the unknown god in Greek times, since I read William Golding s the double tongue about
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 15, 2005
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        Thank you Andrea, this is very useful to me.
        I always wondered about the 'unknown god' in Greek times, since I
        read William Golding's 'the double tongue' about a greek oracle,
        where the priestess says, when the oracle falls silent, ' i feel a
        tenderness in the darkness....it is the unknown god'.

        Michael and Mithras I didn't connect, as I thought Mithras was a
        cult to CHrist as he descended towards earth from the sun. But I may
        be wrong. Anyway the countenance of Christ is Michael and, as
        Maurice said, Appollo was Christ invested in Michael.

        Its a very complicated subject, and I will check the books you
        mention, and will be working on these questions for a long time.
        Thanks again.

        Im trying to write a poetic drama on Julian but i feel horror when I
        try to write it, which maybe is a sign I shouldn't, or maybe because
        the tradegy was such a painful one for a seeker after the Christ, as
        Julian was.


        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "VALENTINA BRUNETTI"
        <okcgbr@t...> wrote:
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        >
        > >
        > >
        > > A quick question if anyone could help I'd appreciate it.
        > >
        > > The gods of the greeks, Zeus, Venus, Athene etc, were they
        > > progressive gods?
        >
        > Hi Mark,
        > this is a "quick question" but giving a !quick anzwer"........is a
        bit
        > difficult.
        > Steiner wrote and told a lot about the Greek gods and the greek
        Mysteries ,
        > since his 1901' book on "Christianity as a Mistical Fact" (don't
        know if it
        > is the actual title in English, since I have the Italian
        translation from
        > the German, playing just this way).
        > As a sketch we can imagine that, based on the Mysteries, the
        overall
        > picture was as follows.
        > !) A "Triadic" set of Powers "of the Beginning": Ouranòs,Gea and
        Cronos
        > (Heaven,Earth,Time)..
        > 2) The Gods of "Above and Below", namely the Olympics, Zeus and C.
        > 3) The Work of the Gods, namely "Ananke", Lat, "Fatum" , aka "What
        the Gods
        > decided",, the Karmic Issues.
        > According to Steiner "The Olympics" are Angelic Spiritual Beings
        intervowen
        > with the Humankind in many different ways,
        > So in spite of their strong "lucipheric" gesture they
        are "progressive" in
        > the way that they are co-working in Mankind's evolution till the
        days of
        > Golgotha,
        >
        > >
        > > In Homer, they appear to the heroes, and influence the elements,
        the
        > > sea for example, as Poseidon the sea god does.
        > >
        > > But there was a lot of rivalry in Olympus, and other goings on.
        > >
        > > So,were they progressive, or had they backward tendencies?
        >
        > >
        > Both of them, as I have explained.
        >
        > > And what about Christ? Was He in the Greek mysteries? Under which
        > > name?
        >
        > The Christ- as Paul wrote- was known as "the Unknown God" of the
        Mysteries,
        > the One the inititate met at the edge of the "three-days-long"
        ceremony,
        > Here he was known also as the True Sun Spirit, of which the Sun
        gods
        > Helios and Phoebus were a kind of "masks".
        >
        > > And Saint Michael, I don't think he was part of the Greek
        Pantheon
        > > was he? Did he have another name then?
        >
        > We can see Michael bot as the Babylonian "Marduk" and the Iranic
        > "Mithra".. He was able to deeply influence both Aristotle and
        Alexander but
        > he was "unknown" as a Greekgod.
        > >
        > > And, also, I would really like to know what has become of a
        goddess
        > > like Artemis, today. Is she known by another name now by the
        > > initiates? Is she progressive still?
        >
        > Arthemis is very near to the Aegyptian "Isis", the Goddess.
        Today we can
        > talk of "Isis-Sophia" as historycally emnbodied in the Mother of
        Jesus.,
        > and linked to the "Holy Spirit" the Third Person of the Trinity,
        > You can usefully read the book "Isis Mary-Sophia" , Steiner's ref
        on Her
        > collected by C.Bamford.
        >
        > >
        > > I ask all this because I'm trying to write something about the
        Roman
        > > Emperor Julian, who has been mostly misrepresented, even though
        he
        > > was a great figure, like Alexander; and whose great campaign in
        the
        > > East was ended by assasination, which was tragic, considering his
        > > high aims.
        > >
        > > Julian was an actual seeker for the Logos, He did not succeed
        to believe
        > that the Logos was "The Man from Nazareth" mostly due to the
        fanatic
        > ignorance of the "Christian" priests that it occurred to him to
        meet.
        > I don't remember if Steiner told something about his further
        incarnations,
        > ("Tycho de Brahe" maybe in the Karmic relayionships" lectures ?)
        but I
        > believe His Entelechèià (his I AM;) to be in the right path
        to be
        somehow
        > near the Logos-Christ he was looking when he was Julian.
        > >
        > > Hope it was be useful
        > > Andrea
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy
        > > Unsubscribe:
        > > anthroposophy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > > List owner: anthroposophy-owner@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
      • Larry
        ... goddess ... we can ... Jesus., ... This one, it doesn t look right to me. Isis is a much bigger god than Artemis, in fact I can t think of any Greek
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 16, 2005
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          Andrea wrote:
          >
          > ----- Original Message
          > >
          > > And, also, I would really like to know what has become of a
          goddess
          > > like Artemis, today. Is she known by another name now by the
          > > initiates? Is she progressive still?
          >
          > Arthemis is very near to the Aegyptian "Isis", the Goddess. Today
          we can
          > talk of "Isis-Sophia" as historycally emnbodied in the Mother of
          Jesus.,
          > and linked to the "Holy Spirit" the Third Person of the Trinity...

          This one, it doesn't look right to me. Isis is a much bigger god
          than Artemis, in fact I can't think of any Greek goddess who seems
          equal to Isis. Artemis, though, as the lunar huntress, (I think) is
          closely related to the Egyptian Bast, the cat god. And there's a
          story about Apollo with a lion, which Diana countered with a cat to
          tease him with, something like that. This clearly has a quality of
          guessing from fragments, though... Cats seem plenty progressive to
          me, but I don't know what a modern initiate would
          say.
          Larry
        • Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com
          In a message dated 2/16/2005 9:40:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, furrylogic@linuxmail.org writes: And, also, I would really like to know what has become of a
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 20, 2005
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            AOL Email
            In a message dated 2/16/2005 9:40:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, furrylogic@... writes:
            And, also, I would really like to know what has become of a
            goddess
            > > like Artemis, today. Is she known by another name now by the
            > > initiates? Is she progressive still?
            >
            > Arthemis is very near to the Aegyptian "Isis", the Goddess.   Today
            we can
            > talk of "Isis-Sophia" as historycally  emnbodied in the Mother of
            Jesus.,
            > and linked to the "Holy Spirit" the Third Person of the Trinity...
                                                                                 
                This one, it doesn't look right to me. Isis is a much bigger god
            than Artemis, in fact I can't think of any Greek goddess who seems
            equal to Isis. Artemis, though, as the lunar huntress, (I think) is
            closely related to the Egyptian Bast, the cat god. And there's a
            story about Apollo with a lion, which Diana countered with a cat to
            tease him with, something like that. This clearly has a quality of
            guessing from fragments, though... Cats seem plenty progressive to
            me, but I don't know what a modern initiate would
            say.                                                                 
                 Larry

            The question remains about Artemis and I definitely agree that Isis is too large to be embodied in Artemis.  The "Isis and Madonna" lecture by S. might give some insights though there isn't anything about Artemis.  Only the Mothers.    The lion with Apollo though would have to be Isis I am thinking.   ~chantel
             
            To be alone without the gods~that is death. ~Holderlin
          • Hogie McM
            AOL EmailArtemis has become The Sculpture of the Representative of Man/Humanity by Rudolf Steiner.. Implied in the lecture series WORLD HISTORY IN THE LIGHT OF
            Message 5 of 5 , Feb 20, 2005
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              AOL Email
              Artemis has become The Sculpture of the Representative of Man/Humanity by Rudolf Steiner..
              Implied in the lecture series WORLD HISTORY IN THE LIGHT OF ANTHROPOSOPHY given during the Christmas Conference 1924
               
              Hogie
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 8:30 AM
              Subject: Re: R: [anthroposophy] Zeus, Pallas Athene, etc a question

              In a message dated 2/16/2005 9:40:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, furrylogic@... writes:
              And, also, I would really like to know what has become of a
              goddess
              > > like Artemis, today. Is she known by another name now by the
              > > initiates? Is she progressive still?
              >
              > Arthemis is very near to the Aegyptian "Isis", the Goddess.   Today
              we can
              > talk of "Isis-Sophia" as historycally  emnbodied in the Mother of
              Jesus.,
              > and linked to the "Holy Spirit" the Third Person of the Trinity...
                                                                                   
                  This one, it doesn't look right to me. Isis is a much bigger god
              than Artemis, in fact I can't think of any Greek goddess who seems
              equal to Isis. Artemis, though, as the lunar huntress, (I think) is
              closely related to the Egyptian Bast, the cat god. And there's a
              story about Apollo with a lion, which Diana countered with a cat to
              tease him with, something like that. This clearly has a quality of
              guessing from fragments, though... Cats seem plenty progressive to
              me, but I don't know what a modern initiate would
              say.                                                                 
                   Larry

              The question remains about Artemis and I definitely agree that Isis is too large to be embodied in Artemis.  The "Isis and Madonna" lecture by S. might give some insights though there isn't anything about Artemis.  Only the Mothers.    The lion with Apollo though would have to be Isis I am thinking.   ~chantel
               
              To be alone without the gods~that is death. ~Holderlin


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