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Re: [anthroposophy] Propensity for Evil

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  • Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com
    Hello Goldie and Jan, One thing I am not clear on is why Steiner says to not talk about supersensible experiences with others? He says this because it
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 2, 2004
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      Hello Goldie and Jan, One thing I am not clear on is why Steiner says to "not talk about supersensible experiences" with others?  He says this because it hardens the petals of the thirteen petal lotus flower (which is the third eye) I believe.  Anyway, speaking about these experiences makes them more real when you can share them.  Does it not?  Or sharing them brings a communion of sorts. It inspires hope and faith.  UNLESS, there is the NEED to talk about them then that would mean there are a couple of problems.  Doubt still harbors and the WANT is the glamour part of it.  I understand why the sage has no desire or need but those who are having experiences "should" share them to teach the rest of us. ? Not to mention it is fun to share these experiences with others.  Having learned the hard way not to "talk" about this stuff in anthro circles has me a little curious for more answers.  So it hardens the lotus because it can be a moral issue....a glamour one...~Chantel
    • Jan
      Hello Chantel, I am sorry to be so long in responding. We have had a full house and lots of visitors lately so I have had little time to spare. Yes, I agree
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 7, 2004
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        Re: [anthroposophy] Propensity for Evil Hello Chantel,
           I am sorry to be so long in responding.  We have had a full house and lots of visitors lately so I have had little time to spare.
          Yes, I agree that sharing experiences can be very strengthening and affirming and I'm sure that we all do it with trusted friends from time to time.  My sister and I were doing just that this week, bringing light to many childhood experiences which arose from the natural spiritual awareness of children who can observe certain beings and events without having a workable context to make sense of them at the time.   They can even be very disturbing, as one encounter my sister had with a being of great evil. So it is good to go back and make them clearer to ourselves and one another in the light of spiritual science, even though my sister is not an anthro, but has a deep spirituality of her own, brought from past lives into very practical and workable forms in her present life, which has been a very hard one.  
           I have mentioned also, on this forum, childhood experiences.  But I had not spoken of them to anyone until my mid thirties.  I found that by then I could look at what had been a defining experience within a biographical time-space journey, and see what it really was and how it had influenced my life.  It had matured. This is, of course, a purely personal anecdote.  By middle age an encounter with a spiritual Being, perhaps a Guardian Angel, has lived a certain life and destiny within one's own life; has moved through time and been seen from many angles and nuances, proved itself through many situations.
          These experiences are one thing.  And of course, they arise throughout life, in encounters with others, through karma, and in ourselves alone.
         But the path of spiritual exercises is a deliberate, accelerating process, and needs tenderness and nurture much as a seedling or a child; requires a protection from other influences and spiritual climates, which gives it a chance to grow and mature. Beginnings are always delicate and vulnerable, whether bud, shoot or babe, even though such mighty forces are latent in them.
          When such an early 'glimpse' (which is usually what it is for us!) is spoken into the world it can be over defined, seen from one angle, limited in a way which inhibits it from its ultimate fullness and truth.  This is a danger. It can put a full stop to a subtle, rhythmic process.
          The developing of each individual chakra is a precise operation, each requiring certain moods of soul and development of virtues, and we know that Rudolf Steiner gave very clear techniques, reversing the old direction.     We know that some lotus petals which were 'given freely' by the gods for an atavistic clairvoyance appropriate for the far past can become active through wrong practice and cast a glamour on the student.  We all know 'spiritual nuts' who boast of their powers and tell everyone of their so called visions.
           As someone with a physical handicap of long standing, and which I have managed to live with in my own way quite well for 54 years, I spend my life avoiding nuts who are convinced that they can heal me, not having the least idea of the precariousness of bones and muscles which have been subjected to surgery etc in childhood, and these people have a nasty habit of leaping out everywhere and trying to physically lay hands on me!  These are the people who try a new method or tradition every few months and are never proficient in anything! (But this is to digress - its just that a recent encounter of this kind still gives me the shivers! I was almost pushed over by a frenzied so called healer!)
          The exercises given by Rudolf Steiner work.  I see the not speaking condition as a lesson in spiritual tact and delicacy, The 'basic conditions for a spiritual student' exercises are useful here. It is about creating a sensitive, fertile atmosphere for the unfolding of new faculties.  Reverence and stillness seem to be the best sheaths for these new flowers.
          But here, as in everything, there can be no blanket rules or one size fits every occasion. We each have our own unique way, and yet can walk hand in hand.  That is the beauty of it all!
        Love, Jan
          




        On 3/12/04 6:42 am, "Cheeseandsalsa@..." <Cheeseandsalsa@...> wrote:

        Hello Goldie and Jan, One thing I am not clear on is why Steiner says to "not talk about supersensible experiences" with others?  He says this because it hardens the petals of the thirteen petal lotus flower (which is the third eye) I believe.  Anyway, speaking about these experiences makes them more real when you can share them.  Does it not?  Or sharing them brings a communion of sorts. It inspires hope and faith.  UNLESS, there is the NEED to talk about them then that would mean there are a couple of problems.  Doubt still harbors and the WANT is the glamour part of it.  I understand why the sage has no desire or need but those who are having experiences "should" share them to teach the rest of us. ? Not to mention it is fun to share these experiences with others.  Having learned the hard way not to "talk" about this stuff in anthro circles has me a little curious for more answers.  So it hardens the lotus because it can be a moral issue....a glamour one...~Chantel

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      • holderlin66
        Just getting a clearer format so I can read it. Hello Chantel, I am sorry to be so long in responding. We have had a full house and lots of visitors lately so
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 7, 2004
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          Just getting a clearer format so I can read it.

          Hello Chantel,
          I am sorry to be so long in responding. We have had a full house
          and lots of visitors lately so I have had little time to spare.
          Yes, I agree that sharing experiences can be very strengthening
          and affirming and I'm sure that we all do it with trusted friends
          from time to time. My sister and I were doing just that this week,
          bringing light to many childhood experiences which arose from the
          natural spiritual awareness of children who can observe certain
          beings and events without having a workable context to make sense of
          them at the time. They can even be very disturbing, as one
          encounter my sister had with a being of great evil. So it is good to
          go back and make them clearer to ourselves and one another in the
          light of spiritual science, even though my sister is not an anthro,
          but has a deep spirituality of her own, brought from past lives into
          very practical and workable forms in her present life, which has
          been a very hard one.
          I have mentioned also, on this forum, childhood experiences. But
          I had not spoken of them to anyone until my mid thirties. I found
          that by then I could look at what had been a defining experience
          within a biographical time-space journey, and see what it really was
          and how it had influenced my life. It had matured. This is, of
          course, a purely personal anecdote. By middle age an encounter with
          a spiritual Being, perhaps a Guardian Angel, has lived a certain
          life and destiny within one's own life; has moved through time and
          been seen from many angles and nuances, proved itself through many
          situations.
          These experiences are one thing. And of course, they arise
          throughout life, in encounters with others, through karma, and in
          ourselves alone.
          But the path of spiritual exercises is a deliberate, accelerating
          process, and needs tenderness and nurture much as a seedling or a
          child; requires a protection from other influences and spiritual
          climates, which gives it a chance to grow and mature. Beginnings are
          always delicate and vulnerable, whether bud, shoot or babe, even
          though such mighty forces are latent in them.
          When such an early 'glimpse' (which is usually what it is for us!)
          is spoken into the world it can be over defined, seen from one
          angle, limited in a way which inhibits it from its ultimate fullness
          and truth. This is a danger. It can put a full stop to a subtle,
          rhythmic process.
          The developing of each individual chakra is a precise operation,
          each requiring certain moods of soul and development of virtues, and
          we know that Rudolf Steiner gave very clear techniques, reversing
          the old direction. We know that some lotus petals which
          were 'given freely' by the gods for an atavistic clairvoyance
          appropriate for the far past can become active through wrong
          practice and cast a glamour on the student. We all know 'spiritual
          nuts' who boast of their powers and tell everyone of their so called
          visions.
          As someone with a physical handicap of long standing, and which I
          have managed to live with in my own way quite well for 54 years, I
          spend my life avoiding nuts who are convinced that they can heal me,
          not having the least idea of the precariousness of bones and muscles
          which have been subjected to surgery etc in childhood, and these
          people have a nasty habit of leaping out everywhere and trying to
          physically lay hands on me! These are the people who try a new
          method or tradition every few months and are never proficient in
          anything! (But this is to digress - its just that a recent encounter
          of this kind still gives me the shivers! I was almost pushed over by
          a frenzied so called healer!)
          The exercises given by Rudolf Steiner work. I see the not
          speaking condition as a lesson in spiritual tact and delicacy,
          The 'basic conditions for a spiritual student' exercises are useful
          here. It is about creating a sensitive, fertile atmosphere for the
          unfolding of new faculties. Reverence and stillness seem to be the
          best sheaths for these new flowers.
          But here, as in everything, there can be no blanket rules or one
          size fits every occasion. We each have our own unique way, and yet
          can walk hand in hand. That is the beauty of it all!
          Love, Jan
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