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Propensity for Evil

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  • Jan
    Rudolf Steiner tells us that various brotherhoods approached him, wanting him to work with them, but he declined all and freely and independently linked his
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 25, 2004
      Rudolf Steiner tells us that various brotherhoods approached him, wanting
      him to work with them, but he declined all and freely and independently
      linked his work to that of Plato and Goethe. (see Occult Movement in the
      Nineteenth century) Had he not done so, it is highly improbable, surely
      impossible, that the high, pure revelations of Anthroposophy could have been
      brought to us.
      Researching occult movements in Britain, not so much who is who but who
      stands behind who, we find many shades of grey to actual black. The rule of
      taking three moral steps to every psychic step is often taken lightly, but
      is an absolute iron necessity if the spirit-revelation is not to be
      back-tracked, diverted, twisted and turned against itself.
      Dr Kingsford fell in using dark magic, indeed very black magic, against
      those vivisectionists whose work, consciously or not, was itself inspired by
      black magicians. (It is interesting to observe how many influential figures
      in grey or black magical groups and societies had practiced dissection of
      corpses. It comes up time and again)
      Had Mabel Collins herself adhered to the tenets of Light on the Path, she
      might have had the inner strength to stand with Rudolf Steiner, whom she
      believed to be in the right, against the spiritual falsity offered by Annie
      Besant. Had she not fallen for the glamour of very dubious Magical Masters,
      such as Roslyn D'Onston she might have been able to resist the fallen Spirit
      of Nationalism which swept across Britain as occult propaganda. Things
      might have gone very differently. No doubt she was targeted. It happens to
      Light Bearers. Steiner himself was continually attacked.

      Quote from Kim Farnell - 'The Many Lives of Mabel Collins'
        "Robert Donston Stephenson (alias Roslyn D'Onston) was the son of a
      Yorkshire seed mill owner who had studied chemistry in Munich and medicine
      in Paris. He fought for Garibaldi in the 1860¹s, working as a battlefield
      medic, and studied the occult under Bulwer Lytton. Married in 1876 he was
      separated from his wife ­ it is unknown what happened to her. He was a
      heavy drinker and reputed to use other drugs. By the time Mabel was to make
      contact with him, Stephenson had already begun to build a mythology around
      himself.
      Stephenson had a nervous breakdown and after going to Brighton for a cure
      was transferred to the London Hospital in July of 1888, diagnosed with
      neurasthenia." end quote

      The Christian Initiation demands much of the aspirant. The narrow path is
      a knife edge. And yet, and yet - 'My Yoke is sweet and light......' The
      narrow is Mustard Seed Space, there is always room for a brother, or many
      brothers to walk alongside, and the necessity of being my brother's keeper
      can lessen the danger of feeling like a 'chosen one'. Luciferic glamour, the
      Ahrimanic greed for power, Asuric sexual thralldom can appear gorgeously
      gift wrapped, labeled 'you alone can do this!' the necessary good outcome
      depends upon you!
      As of course it does, but with humility and a true picture of what we
      really are, with all our imperfections and what we can actually do. It is
      just because we are spiritual beings that we are prone to evil. All evil. We
      are capable of it all. When Mabel Collins pointed out that the disciple of
      occultism can fall farther than any 'ordinary man' she spoke as truly as
      Tolkien when he turned Elves into Orcs. All of us have the potential Orc
      taint in our blood. We can also have the Risen Ethers of the Christ. We are
      capable of the highest good, at least in potential. Christ is the Template.

      Steiner 'Evil illumined through Science of the Spirit.' 15/1/1914

      "So we can begin to answer the question about the origin of evil and wrong
      doing in the world. It comes about when we allow our better, higher nature,
      not our worst, to descend and be submerged in the physical realm, a realm
      which cannot as such be evil. It comes about when we develop qualities in
      the physical realm which do not belong there, which have their rightful
      place in the realm of the spirit. Why do we have a potential for evil?
      Because we are also spiritual beings! Because we have to develop those
      qualities when we penetrate into the spiritual world, which become bad when
      we apply them to the physical. Qualities which manifest as cruelty or
      malice in the the physical world, if withdrawn from the physical realm and
      allowed instead to imbue the inwardness of the soul, to unfold in the world
      of spirit, become qualities which advance and perfect us." end quote

      Steiner is clear that we do not become evil by passing through matter. We
      become evil when the spiritual is wrongly made physical. Inasmuch as we have
      the potential for greatest good within us, so also do we have the incipient
      capacity and potential for the greatest evil. Not just minor evil, he
      assures us, but all evil. We can all of us sink to the deepest, basest evil
      which can possibly be imagined. This is due, not to the worst in us, but to
      the best in us. Paradox? Right again. The Christian Initiate gives us
      another paradox to enliven our souls - 'We must develop strong ego forces to
      come consciously into the spiritual world, but in the physical world we must
      become selfless, altruistic.' He goes on,

      "But now we are faced with something of a paradox - although such living
      contradictions are, one might say, the very fabric of the world. I have
      said that we need to strengthen ourselves inwardly; the ego, the I, must
      become stronger in order to penetrate into the spiritual world. Yet if we
      only developed egotism in our spiritual ascent we would not get very far.
      What does this mean? We must penetrate the world of spirit without egotism
      yet we cannot penetrate it without egotism! (a fact that everyone must sadly
      acknowledge who enters the spiritual world) What this means is that we must
      have our egotism before us, be aware of it in such an objective way that we
      can see it, recognize it as the egotism we are bound up with in the outer
      world." end quote

      This precious lecture needs long meditation. It is complex and profound.
      An Initiate has always before his inner sight the Lesser Guardian; always,
      at every moment his own Earthsea Le Giun cast shadow, his Picture of Dorian
      Grey. A step towards this for us is the exercise of daily objective self
      examination. We can never use the methods of the brotherhoods to stand
      against them.
      Jan
    • golden3000997@cs.com
      Jan wrote: We can never use the methods of the brotherhoods to stand against them. This is exactly like trying to use The Ring to fight Sauron (et al)
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 25, 2004
        Jan wrote:

        "We can never use the methods of the brotherhoods to stand
        against them."

        This is exactly like trying to use "The Ring" to fight Sauron (et al) isn't it? It has to be renounced completely.

        A confession, though. I realized at one point that I am not a pacifist. When I have seen pictures or heard stories of horrors done to animals and/ or children, I feel completely that I could literally rip the head of a person who tried to harm an animal or a child in my vicinity. I couldn't use black magic, simply because I don't know how and don't feel I could learn. But I do truly feel in my heart and soul that I could physically kill such a person if I had the opportunity and means. I would suffer prison and karmic punishment if necessary. In the physical world, violence does call forth violence still at our level of development.

        But my wish is to somehow do a drop to advance human conciousness toward the far day when the cycle of violence will have ended completely. When no one would dream of harming another intentionally, least of all an animal or child. This obviously is a long, long time away. But the hope is that seeds HAVE been planted in the world, beginning with the Saints (all Saints of the World) and by the Christ Being Himself. Our work, those of us who dream and wish for that far off world, is to continue in each lifetime to do whatever our destiny permits to promote empathy and love, especially in children and to support everything that works as healing for the soul, spirit and body in each person, however depraved they may be. We can recognize the violence that surrounds us as symptom, not cause. We have to research the causes aggressively and learn to apply the correct therapies.

        It may still require the battle with the orcs and evil doers before being able to go "home" to plant Galadriel's magic seeds of healing.

        Sadly,
        Christine
      • Jan
        ... Re: [anthroposophy] Propensity for Evil Hello Goldie Christine, Happy Thanksgiving! Yes, I know what you mean. But I think there is a distinction to be
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 25, 2004
          Re: [anthroposophy] Propensity for Evil
          Hello Goldie Christine,
            Happy Thanksgiving!  Yes, I know what you mean.  But I think there is a distinction to be made here.  A passionate rage  in response to cruelty is one thing, a willed ill-wishing or ritual magic is something else.  ‘Revenge is a dish best served cold’  is true to the extent that revenge is a cold, old thing.  That is something other than the fury that deals out a bit of rough justice to a bully!  It can even be an appropriate action, although one cannot really generalise.

            Once I was awakened at night by the two Scotties low growling and  rushed straight into my younger son’s room (he was a little boy at the time), where I saw him sitting up in bed looking at the window which was being opened by a man perched on a ledge just below the window.  I moved very, very fast for me and slammed the window down just before he got in, and he fell backwards, but was seemingly unhurt as he got up and ran away. This was an upstairs window.  He would have had to kill me before he got to my son.  The dogs were shut up in a downstairs room, or they would have eaten any burglar, small though they were!
              I would certainly have pushed him out if I had not managed to shut the window in time.
            I was thinking more of occultists and the means used to achieve certain ends, and how work is subverted by the amplifying of our weaknesses by the adversary beings.
             When the veil thins and spiritual worlds begin to gleam into our lives there can be a certain almost magnetic quality about  the person involved which attracts other people and other beings, and then if there is not a thorough catharsis and purification, it is easy to fall under a spell of glamour and inflated egotism.  I know because I have had some experience of it.  The good thing is that the spiritual insights and glimpses then stop, as long as one has not fallen too far into error,  in which case they intensify, but as illusion.
            As students of spiritual science we have the safety of intensive study at those times  and that is the best thing for us. At least it was for me.  I was lucky enough to be able to see where the glamour was coming from, due to Anthroposophy, and not go  there!  But I can easily see how it can infiltrate.
          Love, Jan


          A confession, though. I realized at one point that I am not a pacifist. When I have seen pictures or heard stories of horrors done to animals and/ or children, I feel completely that I could literally rip the head of a person who tried to harm an animal or a child in my vicinity. I couldn't use black magic, simply because I don't know how and don't feel I could learn. But I do truly feel in my heart and soul that I could physically kill such a person if I had the opportunity and means. I would suffer prison and karmic punishment if necessary. In the physical world, violence does call forth violence still at our level of development.

          But my wish is to somehow do a drop to advance human conciousness toward the far day when the cycle of violence will have ended completely. When no one would dream of harming another intentionally, least of all an animal or child. This obviously is a long, long time away. But the hope is that seeds HAVE been planted in the world, beginning with the Saints (all Saints of the World) and by the Christ Being Himself. Our work, those of us who dream and wish for that far off world, is to continue in each lifetime to do whatever our destiny permits to promote empathy and love, especially in children and to support everything that works as healing for the soul, spirit and body in each person, however depraved they may be. We can recognize the violence that surrounds us as symptom, not cause. We have to research the causes aggressively and learn to apply the correct therapies.

          It may still require the battle with the orcs and evil doers before being able to go "home" to plant Galadriel's magic seeds of healing.

          Sadly,
          Christine


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        • Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com
          Hello Goldie and Jan, One thing I am not clear on is why Steiner says to not talk about supersensible experiences with others? He says this because it
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 2, 2004
            Hello Goldie and Jan, One thing I am not clear on is why Steiner says to "not talk about supersensible experiences" with others?  He says this because it hardens the petals of the thirteen petal lotus flower (which is the third eye) I believe.  Anyway, speaking about these experiences makes them more real when you can share them.  Does it not?  Or sharing them brings a communion of sorts. It inspires hope and faith.  UNLESS, there is the NEED to talk about them then that would mean there are a couple of problems.  Doubt still harbors and the WANT is the glamour part of it.  I understand why the sage has no desire or need but those who are having experiences "should" share them to teach the rest of us. ? Not to mention it is fun to share these experiences with others.  Having learned the hard way not to "talk" about this stuff in anthro circles has me a little curious for more answers.  So it hardens the lotus because it can be a moral issue....a glamour one...~Chantel
          • Jan
            Hello Chantel, I am sorry to be so long in responding. We have had a full house and lots of visitors lately so I have had little time to spare. Yes, I agree
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 7, 2004
              Re: [anthroposophy] Propensity for Evil Hello Chantel,
                 I am sorry to be so long in responding.  We have had a full house and lots of visitors lately so I have had little time to spare.
                Yes, I agree that sharing experiences can be very strengthening and affirming and I'm sure that we all do it with trusted friends from time to time.  My sister and I were doing just that this week, bringing light to many childhood experiences which arose from the natural spiritual awareness of children who can observe certain beings and events without having a workable context to make sense of them at the time.   They can even be very disturbing, as one encounter my sister had with a being of great evil. So it is good to go back and make them clearer to ourselves and one another in the light of spiritual science, even though my sister is not an anthro, but has a deep spirituality of her own, brought from past lives into very practical and workable forms in her present life, which has been a very hard one.  
                 I have mentioned also, on this forum, childhood experiences.  But I had not spoken of them to anyone until my mid thirties.  I found that by then I could look at what had been a defining experience within a biographical time-space journey, and see what it really was and how it had influenced my life.  It had matured. This is, of course, a purely personal anecdote.  By middle age an encounter with a spiritual Being, perhaps a Guardian Angel, has lived a certain life and destiny within one's own life; has moved through time and been seen from many angles and nuances, proved itself through many situations.
                These experiences are one thing.  And of course, they arise throughout life, in encounters with others, through karma, and in ourselves alone.
               But the path of spiritual exercises is a deliberate, accelerating process, and needs tenderness and nurture much as a seedling or a child; requires a protection from other influences and spiritual climates, which gives it a chance to grow and mature. Beginnings are always delicate and vulnerable, whether bud, shoot or babe, even though such mighty forces are latent in them.
                When such an early 'glimpse' (which is usually what it is for us!) is spoken into the world it can be over defined, seen from one angle, limited in a way which inhibits it from its ultimate fullness and truth.  This is a danger. It can put a full stop to a subtle, rhythmic process.
                The developing of each individual chakra is a precise operation, each requiring certain moods of soul and development of virtues, and we know that Rudolf Steiner gave very clear techniques, reversing the old direction.     We know that some lotus petals which were 'given freely' by the gods for an atavistic clairvoyance appropriate for the far past can become active through wrong practice and cast a glamour on the student.  We all know 'spiritual nuts' who boast of their powers and tell everyone of their so called visions.
                 As someone with a physical handicap of long standing, and which I have managed to live with in my own way quite well for 54 years, I spend my life avoiding nuts who are convinced that they can heal me, not having the least idea of the precariousness of bones and muscles which have been subjected to surgery etc in childhood, and these people have a nasty habit of leaping out everywhere and trying to physically lay hands on me!  These are the people who try a new method or tradition every few months and are never proficient in anything! (But this is to digress - its just that a recent encounter of this kind still gives me the shivers! I was almost pushed over by a frenzied so called healer!)
                The exercises given by Rudolf Steiner work.  I see the not speaking condition as a lesson in spiritual tact and delicacy, The 'basic conditions for a spiritual student' exercises are useful here. It is about creating a sensitive, fertile atmosphere for the unfolding of new faculties.  Reverence and stillness seem to be the best sheaths for these new flowers.
                But here, as in everything, there can be no blanket rules or one size fits every occasion. We each have our own unique way, and yet can walk hand in hand.  That is the beauty of it all!
              Love, Jan
                




              On 3/12/04 6:42 am, "Cheeseandsalsa@..." <Cheeseandsalsa@...> wrote:

              Hello Goldie and Jan, One thing I am not clear on is why Steiner says to "not talk about supersensible experiences" with others?  He says this because it hardens the petals of the thirteen petal lotus flower (which is the third eye) I believe.  Anyway, speaking about these experiences makes them more real when you can share them.  Does it not?  Or sharing them brings a communion of sorts. It inspires hope and faith.  UNLESS, there is the NEED to talk about them then that would mean there are a couple of problems.  Doubt still harbors and the WANT is the glamour part of it.  I understand why the sage has no desire or need but those who are having experiences "should" share them to teach the rest of us. ? Not to mention it is fun to share these experiences with others.  Having learned the hard way not to "talk" about this stuff in anthro circles has me a little curious for more answers.  So it hardens the lotus because it can be a moral issue....a glamour one...~Chantel

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            • holderlin66
              Just getting a clearer format so I can read it. Hello Chantel, I am sorry to be so long in responding. We have had a full house and lots of visitors lately so
              Message 6 of 6 , Dec 7, 2004
                Just getting a clearer format so I can read it.

                Hello Chantel,
                I am sorry to be so long in responding. We have had a full house
                and lots of visitors lately so I have had little time to spare.
                Yes, I agree that sharing experiences can be very strengthening
                and affirming and I'm sure that we all do it with trusted friends
                from time to time. My sister and I were doing just that this week,
                bringing light to many childhood experiences which arose from the
                natural spiritual awareness of children who can observe certain
                beings and events without having a workable context to make sense of
                them at the time. They can even be very disturbing, as one
                encounter my sister had with a being of great evil. So it is good to
                go back and make them clearer to ourselves and one another in the
                light of spiritual science, even though my sister is not an anthro,
                but has a deep spirituality of her own, brought from past lives into
                very practical and workable forms in her present life, which has
                been a very hard one.
                I have mentioned also, on this forum, childhood experiences. But
                I had not spoken of them to anyone until my mid thirties. I found
                that by then I could look at what had been a defining experience
                within a biographical time-space journey, and see what it really was
                and how it had influenced my life. It had matured. This is, of
                course, a purely personal anecdote. By middle age an encounter with
                a spiritual Being, perhaps a Guardian Angel, has lived a certain
                life and destiny within one's own life; has moved through time and
                been seen from many angles and nuances, proved itself through many
                situations.
                These experiences are one thing. And of course, they arise
                throughout life, in encounters with others, through karma, and in
                ourselves alone.
                But the path of spiritual exercises is a deliberate, accelerating
                process, and needs tenderness and nurture much as a seedling or a
                child; requires a protection from other influences and spiritual
                climates, which gives it a chance to grow and mature. Beginnings are
                always delicate and vulnerable, whether bud, shoot or babe, even
                though such mighty forces are latent in them.
                When such an early 'glimpse' (which is usually what it is for us!)
                is spoken into the world it can be over defined, seen from one
                angle, limited in a way which inhibits it from its ultimate fullness
                and truth. This is a danger. It can put a full stop to a subtle,
                rhythmic process.
                The developing of each individual chakra is a precise operation,
                each requiring certain moods of soul and development of virtues, and
                we know that Rudolf Steiner gave very clear techniques, reversing
                the old direction. We know that some lotus petals which
                were 'given freely' by the gods for an atavistic clairvoyance
                appropriate for the far past can become active through wrong
                practice and cast a glamour on the student. We all know 'spiritual
                nuts' who boast of their powers and tell everyone of their so called
                visions.
                As someone with a physical handicap of long standing, and which I
                have managed to live with in my own way quite well for 54 years, I
                spend my life avoiding nuts who are convinced that they can heal me,
                not having the least idea of the precariousness of bones and muscles
                which have been subjected to surgery etc in childhood, and these
                people have a nasty habit of leaping out everywhere and trying to
                physically lay hands on me! These are the people who try a new
                method or tradition every few months and are never proficient in
                anything! (But this is to digress - its just that a recent encounter
                of this kind still gives me the shivers! I was almost pushed over by
                a frenzied so called healer!)
                The exercises given by Rudolf Steiner work. I see the not
                speaking condition as a lesson in spiritual tact and delicacy,
                The 'basic conditions for a spiritual student' exercises are useful
                here. It is about creating a sensitive, fertile atmosphere for the
                unfolding of new faculties. Reverence and stillness seem to be the
                best sheaths for these new flowers.
                But here, as in everything, there can be no blanket rules or one
                size fits every occasion. We each have our own unique way, and yet
                can walk hand in hand. That is the beauty of it all!
                Love, Jan
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