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Re:(3) Musings continue

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  • Terence
    ... Terence: We are making progress! Yes! Next time be more explicit. ... Terence: Whew! Are we making progress? Which one is following the other? How do we
    Message 1 of 1 , Sep 1, 2004
      Andrew writes:
      > Those ideas were implicit in my post on the matter. I ought perhaps to have
      > made them explicit. I do agree with what you have posted above.

      We are making progress! Yes! Next time be more explicit.

      Terence wrote:
      >> I would definitely agree that when Mars appears to be within the stellar
      >> light of Antares, the Mars forces, the spiritual hierarchy of the Dynamis,
      >> are scintillating because of an ancient relationship between the 2nd
      >> Hierarchy and the Zodiac. Now how that affects or effects us humans here on
      >> Terra Firma is something to explore on this board, otherwise we can get
      >> trapped into the thoughts of the past and start to quote what the Ancients
      >> said or what some notable astrologer has to say. It seems to me that right
      >> here in River City we have a sterling opportunity to practice our language,
      >> syntax within the structure of the context of Astrosophia.

      Andrew responds:
      > I do not believe that one necessarily follows from the other. It might be
      > possible for one to become 'trapped' (whatever interpretation one might wish
      > to put on that) in the thoughts of the past but it is not necessarily either
      > probable - or inevitable. It does not seem to have prevented Dr. Vreede or
      > Sucher from pursuing their own investigations.

      Whew! Are we making progress? Which one is following the other?

      How do we explore the affects or effects of Mars in Scorpio? Certainly we
      can take advantage of the freedom of thinking as expressed by Sucher and
      Vreede; however, if all we do is to quote them without adding our own
      two-cents of experimentation and exploration of the results of our own
      meditation, pondering, and freedom of thought, are we not then merely
      intellectualizing? Is not this a trap, a snare within which one can fall
      prey to, especially if we were academically cultured and conditioned? Has
      not the whole of Western culture conditioned us to think within the box, the
      book, or the basket? And then along comes Steiner! Freiheit! How refreshing?
      Have you read any of Bradford¹s posts?

      Andrew responds:
      > I do respect that you have expressed this as your deepest sense however it
      > is not necessarily one that I share -- at least not in the manner in which
      > you have expressed it. Of course I trust you will respect that your deepest
      > sense of what Astrosophia may (or may not) attend to may not coincide with
      > my deepest sense of what Astrosophia may attend to.

      Most certainly do I offer you the same freedom to express as you offer me. I
      also am aware that each of us can offer the group a facet of the jewel that
      they have polished. So what is you deepest sense of what Astrosophia offers?
      Please share the depths of your considerations and musings.

      >> Terence responds to Andrew: You are correct. Intellectual discourse is not to
      >> be *despised* (wherever that came from!). However, to confine oneself to
      >> discourse of the past and the intellectual constructs of Eastern or Western
      >> Astrology seems less than ideal in light of the consciousness soul epoch,
      >> wouldn't you agree?

      Andrew responds:
      > This seems to assume that discourse related to 'eastern and western'
      > astrology is implicitly concerned with intellectual constructs as if these
      > (unidentified) constructs represent the essence of astrological wisdom. I
      > would submit that the astrological traditions of both east and west embody
      > more than simply intellectual constructs and that to engage in discourse on
      > these traditions does not represent a form of confinement unless one chooses
      > to identify or experience it as a form of confinement. One must perhaps move
      > beyond intellectual constructs not by dismissing them but by transforming
      > them. Or perhaps one might simply wish to plant a garden or paint a picture
      > or do a little dance.

      From my pen to your eye appears a gap. What is that gap?

      I most heartily agree that the astrological traditions of the east and west
      embody more than mere intellectual constructs...at the time they were
      pronounced or written. However, today these very same traditions are only
      that...tradition and as such are an embodiment of the past. If we
      consciously rely on what has been given to us from the past without
      exercising our own freedom of thinking; if we write like most PhD¹s are
      taught and conditioned to think, are we not binding ourselves to the past?
      And if we are bound to reflection and memory how does the future operate
      within us? If the future is unable to operate within us, where is our heart?
      Intellectualization is a bane of heart-thinking and mind-feeling, IMHO.

      I agree that we need to transform the past (intellectual constructs). Can
      these constructs be transformed without the forces of the heart? How many
      times I sat and listened to learned folk speak about astrology and the
      esoteric and wondered what the heart of the matter was all about. What I
      heard and mostly what I read was abstraction, intellectual construction sans
      the heart. To me, the mere mention of Sophia draws out the forces and power
      of my heart. Couple that with Astrosophia and my pulse is strong and my
      breathing is slow and relaxed...I am in Love! Philos and Agape joined
      together in intimate embrace.

      Ah yes! Planting a garden, painting a picture, or dancing certainly can be

      Andrew responds:
      > I will get back to you on the calculation of the ayanamsa question.

      In my mind there is no question about the ayanamsha. I calculated the natus
      of Steiner with two different coordinates and two different times with the
      same ayanamsha (Fagan) and was amused to find the same Ascendant...20 Libra.

      Zodiac Wisdom...
      en rapport
      with the Stellar Worlds
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