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How to fight against Asuras

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  • Jan
    Hello Joksu, The below written before reading your post, which has just arrived so it is not a direct reply. We must be thinking along the same lines! Let me
    Message 1 of 26 , Aug 10, 2004
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      Hello Joksu,
      The below written before reading your post, which has just arrived so it
      is not a direct reply. We must be thinking along the same lines! Let me
      say again how lovely it was to meet you and your son here last week during
      your visit to London. It was a happy and fruitful meeting for me, which I
      owe to this forum.


      Perhaps we should reconsider the term 'fighting' the Asuras. Rudolf
      Steiner once stated that one could not fight demons but only starve them.
      This also touches upon the mystery of the words 'resist not evil' which can
      lead us to the white magic of the Manicheans.
      When my sons were children and I wanted them to do an errand, perhaps
      fetch something from a local shop, I would send them 'on a mission.' This
      they loved and spiced an ordinary advent with adventure, so that my very
      mundane paper or packet of tea would arrive in a wave of triumph and
      achievement. Or they would get it wrong. Err-and and miss-ion both contain
      the possibility of fruitful failure.
      An early wave of Manicheans have entered into situations where, for some,
      their powers of transformation have been overwhelmed by the strength and
      nature of the evil into which they have delved, perhaps with the result of
      acquiring a greater potential for good in later incarnations and gaining new
      insight in the life after death. The Manichean magic is not yet fully
      operative and there is heroism and sacrifice in the souls who dive deeply
      into difficult and spiritually dangerous incarnations and pave the way often
      by their seeming failure.
      It is interesting to research the lives of some such souls. The author
      and feminist Rebecca West, for example, is as famous for her ten year affair
      with the famous racist and eugenicist author H G Wells as for her own books.
      She was probably known principally for her books on Yugoslavia and her
      reports on the Nuremberg trials at which she was present and her articles
      for various feminist and political periodicals and magazines than for her
      'family' novels.

      Quote from encyclopedia.
      Rebecca West was the pseudonym of Cecily (or Cicily) Isabel Fairfield
      (December 25, 1892- March 15, 1983), a British-Irish feminist and writer
      famous for her novels and for her relationship with H. G. Wells.
      She was born in County Kerry, Ireland. Her Irish journalist father deserted
      her Scottish mother -- and then died -- while Cecily was still a child. The
      rest of the family moved to Edinburgh, Scotland, where she was educated. She
      trained as an actress, taking the name "Rebecca West" from one of Ibsen's
      plays. She became involved in the women's suffrage movement before the First
      World War, and worked as a journalist on Freewoman and the Clarion. She met
      Wells in 1913, and their affair lasted ten years. They had a son, Anthony,
      but Wells was already married (for the second time). West is also said to
      have had affairs with Charlie Chaplin and newspaper magnate Max Beaverbrook.
      In 1930, she married a banker, Henry Maxwell Andrews, and they remained
      together until his death in 1968. Before and during the Second World War,
      West traveled widely, collecting material for books on travel and politics.
      She was present at the Nuremberg trials. Her later work as a writer and
      broadcaster reflected these experiences.
      Rebecca West was created a DBE ("Dame") in 1959 for her services to
      literature. End of quote.


      If you have read the short quote above you will see that Rebecca West
      leapt into the very belly of the Beast, associating with Bankers, Newspaper
      Magnates, reductionist and socially-manipulative Science, into glamourous
      Hollywood and the Fabians Eugenicists who planned a new and frightening
      world, many of whom were her close friends. The infamous Bertrand Russell
      for one. Her destiny took her into right into the vortex of ideas and
      ideologies of the time,into a battle of Ideology-Beings, towards the end of
      her life more especially those of the British and American Establishments.
      Among many other powerful and influential men she knew very well was Allen
      Dulles, first director of the CIA and later she had an affair with Attorney
      General Francis Biddle, who was one of the judges at the Nuremberg trials.
      The FBI kept a file on her.
      In opposition to her fascinating but very right wing father she took up
      the causes of the left in her youth, becoming violently anti communist in
      later years when disillusioned by the atrocities of Stalinist Russia,
      although her left wing friends were ignoring these at the time. (And why is
      dis-illusioned so often seen as a negative state? To see through an
      illusion is to be freed from its spell and able to learn from it.)
      She ended just as opposed to communism as fascism, believing that the good
      inherent in people must be brought out by love and the rule of law. (Whose
      laws, one might ask! H G Wells?) Her great tragedy was the lack of an
      Esoteric Christology and her fear of the occasional supersensible
      experiences she had.
      When I first read 'The Fountain Overflows', a partly biographical novel by
      Rebecca West, I recognized at once that it had an underlying Manichean
      thread, and so was not surprised to find that she had been fascinated by
      Augustine and had written a short biography of him, although her grasp of
      Manichaeism was incomplete lacking an esoteric dimension. I read the two
      further books which made up the trilogy and saw that her lack of
      understanding had its roots mostly in an aversion to Christianity as she
      understood it and a lack of deeper insight which Spiritual Science would
      have brought to her world view. She herself accepted that she had taken on
      more than she could finish, having intended a fourth book culminating in an
      act of Manichean sacrifice in the concentration camps of Nazi Germany, but
      lacking the ability and insight needed to accomplish it.
      The theme of the books is the gentle absorption of evil by simple but
      intensely powerful and inherently good people who understand how to work on
      levels unknown and unsuspected by ordinary folk. They are able to roll in
      the muddier parts of life, misunderstood but without becoming inwardly
      dirtied, unlike Rebecca herself, whose passions led her into many dark
      byways from which she did not emerge unscathed. Some have seen the
      autobiographical aspect of the books as hypocritical as so much of the
      character representing Rebecca herself is wishful thinking, almost an
      opposite, mirror image of herself as she really lived her life. But this is
      to see only part of the picture.
      Her involvement with H G Wells drew her into a polar opposite of Goethean
      science and into his racist supremacist ideology essentially at odds with
      her truly cosmopolitan view. Her obsession with sex drew her into affair
      after affair, her sex life with Wells being rather horribly based on the
      pretence of being two mating wild cats whose mouths were smeared with blood
      from a recent kill. She despised vegetarians, had an inordinate love of
      meat and food generally which bordered on greed, as well as a passion for
      money and what it could buy. She neglected the son she had with Wells,
      vilified her kindly elder sister and when undergoing Freudian analysis
      stated that she had been subjected to oral sexual abuse by her father whilst
      in her cot.
      Incidentally, as a child I was subjected to Freudian analysis on a regular
      weekly basis from the age of eight to eleven and similar suggestions were
      made to me, but I had the loving protection of a large Plane tree near the
      clinic and recourse to other techniques of soul-guarding also and was able
      to give the lie to the suggestions and refute them utterly, although I did
      not understand them fully until many years later.
      Sometimes it may take more than one incarnation to accomplish the task of
      transformation of evil in any particular area. A reconnaissance life such
      as Rebecca's may first be necessary, an entering and knowing of alien
      territory kind of life. Failure here and now may well be fruitful later,
      since Christ is Lord of Karma. Rebecca could not be Rosamund the heroine of
      her family trilogy, going to the heart of the Ahrimanic deception, married
      to an archetypal Bankster, Rose of the World crucified and blooming upon the
      World's body. The novels give indications and outlines merely of something
      she could not see in its entirety.
      But she was fired with ideals, right to the end of her long life, filled
      with the warming, moral fire that works as life giving force in the world.

      Steiner - from 'The Bridge Between Universal Spirituality and the Physical
      Constitution of Man -
      "When we study the whole man we find a bridge between moral ideals and
      what works as life giving force in the physical world, even in the chemical
      sense. For tone works in the chemical sense by assembling substances and
      dispersing them again. Light in the world has its source in the moral
      stimuli, in the warmth-organisms of men. Thus we look into the future - new
      worlds take shape. And as in the case of the plant we must go back to the
      seed, so in the case of future worlds that will come into being, we must go
      back to the seeds which lie in us as moral ideals.....Moral ideas, or ideas
      of a moral-religious character which fire us with enthusiasm and become
      impulses for deeds, work as world creative powers." end quote.

      he goes on to explain how theoretical ideas cool and deaden the world. H G
      Wells was a prime example, and worse, of this kind of thinking.

      Quote from Inkling University Birth Control and Eugenics
      "Wells stumbled badly with 'Anticipations,' the first of his new sort of
      books. Set just after the year 2000, it envisioned the formation of a World
      State dominated by a "great federation of white English-speaking peoples."
      Ruthless efficiency was the chief trait Wells valued. His World State was to
      be run "capable men" drawn from "Trust-owned business organizations,
      universities and a new sort of military in tune with his ideas. At the other
      end of the power spectrum would be the "multiplying rejected of the white
      and yellow races" along with the "vast proportion of the black and brown
      races." Dark skin, in his mind, was linked to a greater inferiority.
      Anticipations introduced Wells to a couple who would have a remarkable
      impact on British politics, Sidney and Beatrice Webb. They were delighted by
      the future Wells envisioned and eagerly introduced him to their friends in
      the Fabian Society, the 'think tank' for the British Labor Party. Their only
      complaint was that his World State did not yet include "the trained
      administrator, the expert in organizing men"‹a scientist as skilled at
      manipulating people as physicists were at controlling electrons. The Fabians
      were the model for N.I.C.E., an organization that C. S. Lewis would
      criticize in his science fiction work, That Hideous Strength." end quote.

      The first attack of the Asuric beings lies in convincing humanity that it is
      of animal nature only, living in a purely material world where such concepts
      as those of H G Wells are desirable and practical for a ruling elite.
      Rebecca West embraced this in her relationship with him and what she took
      from it yet cancelled it out, balanced it by the true fire of her ideals
      which had led her to seek brotherhood and freedom for man via ideologies and
      then had the courage to be dis-illusioned and so freed from the Beings which
      manipulate them.
      In the life after death of souls such as Rebecca West, surely there must be
      much that can be harvested and transformed for future good from a life so
      richly lived, perhaps with the aid of here on earth trained in joining the
      dots of symptom to those of reality with love and compassion for those who
      dare risk a fruitful failure.
      Jan
    • Hogie McM
      this lecture definitely exists...Ill try to find it for you Hogie ... From: Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 09,
      Message 2 of 26 , Aug 11, 2004
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        this lecture definitely exists...Ill try to find it for you
         
        Hogie
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 1:56 PM
        Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] How to fight against Asuras

        In a message dated 8/9/2004 12:07:29 AM Central Daylight Time, hogie@... writes:
        Since The Father God rules over the Physical Body, I assume it is The Father God that would have the
        greatest effectiveness in countering the forces of the Asuras, who are able to penetrate as deep as the actual physical body itself, as well as being able to rip out portions of our being (soul) that can never be re-obtained in any form, but would be lost forever
        I am wondering if a shaman would agree with soul parts lost forever.  In a soul retreival the shaman goes in and fights and sometimes has to trick entities and lost soul parts in order to take back individual parts of a soul.  When soul's fragment themselves some of the time they have been wounded severely and do not desire to return.  I believe a shaman can work miracles in this area however it makes sense that portions of our being can be lost forever in certain cases.  I am wondering which  Steiner lecture/book this is mentioned so I can get a clearer perspective?  C


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      • holderlin66
        The White Moth. A. T. QUILLER COUCH If a leaf rustled, she would start: And yet she died, a year ago How had so frail a thing the heart To journey where she
        Message 3 of 26 , Aug 11, 2004
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          The White Moth.

          A. T. QUILLER COUCH

          If a leaf rustled, she would start:
          And yet she died, a year ago
          How had so frail a thing the heart
          To journey where she trembled so?
          And do they turn and turn in fright,
          Those little feet, in so much night?

          The light above the poet's head
          Streamed on the page and on the cloth,
          And twice and thrice there buffeted
          On the black pane a white-wingd moth:

          'Twas Annie's soul that beat outside,
          And "Open, open, open!" cried:
          I could not find the way to God;
          There were too many flaming suns

          For signposts, and the fearful road
          Led over wastes where millions
          Of tangled comets hissed and burned--
          I was bewilder'd and I turned.

          "O, it was easy then! I knew
          Your window and no star beside.
          Look up and take me back to you!"
          He rose and thrust the window wide.

          'Twas but because his brain was hot
          With rhyming; for he heard her not.
          But poets polishing a phrase
          Show anger over trivial things:

          And as she blundered in the blaze
          Towards him, on ecstatic wings,
          He raised a hand and smote her dead;
          Then wrote, "That I had died instead."

          Bradford comments;

          There is an occult perception, very simple to observe, very complex
          but as simple as any lesson that was ever written in the great book
          of nature. Moth and Butterfly and how each relates to the light are
          a visible lesson. What is the moral of this story? It has profound
          meaning. Moths have an erratic nervous disorder in relation to the
          light. Butterflies have a well organized Devachan imprint on their
          wing patterns. Butterflies reveal tribe, nation, and pheromone
          scented holiness of their distinct and specific tracking breed.

          In Spiritual Science we find the road to Konig and Steiner where a
          Butterfly and the blossom and petals of a flower reveal a rooted
          mystery and a freed mystery. In fact in any Waldorf Training camp we
          can follow the steps of the caterpillar, the stages of it and see
          how the Holy SPirit hovers in living and loving numerical ratio over
          the blossom and plant kingdom. There is an entombment death and
          Resurrection in the life of the caterpillar. In other words the
          blossom and the butterfly are a calibrated match.

          I love the word calibrated, one can see a great deal with the word
          calibrated. Size and ratio of Being to Being are calibrated. The
          Moon moving closer or further away reveals the giant redwood forests
          or the calibrated current size of the butterfly.

          The Butterfly is not a bird, it is the hovering soul and spirit,
          Angels of the Plant world. How is your Nectar, blood sugar and
          courage today? Do you really understand blood sugar and diabetes?
          Has your sweet nectar also fed the Dead and your Angel? Has it
          produced some thought life that is not merely bug lite?

          Now things go very differently for the moth. Here you have an
          opportunity to study, "The Devil and Daniel Webster". This is an
          important study, as important as Faust is to Anthros. "The Devil and
          Daniel Webster" is really about imprisoning the soul/spirit and the
          nature of Moth to light. It is part of the study that leads us
          toward the objective lessons of the Asuras vs the courage of
          humanity.

          But we need not study these texts..we find ourselves faint and
          thought thickens, chills and slows in us. We crave a quicker
          gratification to our question. The development of the Moth, its
          brown, dried leaf imagery, where the life force has been depleted
          from it, creates also an erratic nervous disorder in how the moth is
          constantly fooled by Light. The moth is pathologically fooled by
          false light. It suffers from a suicidal nervous disorder that
          hungers for false light the way butterflies hunger for true Plant
          perfume prayers. Prayers of perfume that the plant has wrought in
          its humble earth bound enchantment rise into the air and these
          prayer signals are read in the pheromone navigation of the tribes,
          breeds and various families of butterfly Angels.

          Some might think Spiritual Science is being poetic on this point. If
          you think this is a sweet poetic metaphor or analogy you have no
          idea the depth of Goethean Science nor the depth of the question of
          how to approach the fight against the Asuras. It is a topic that
          still haunts us and makes us shiver. It makes us shiver more than
          the Christ warms our courage. Or; how do we find courage and do we
          need to constantly place ourselves in Frodo's matrix of tension?

          Jan wrote profoundly on the biographical excursions into dangerous
          philosophic regions as explored by Isabel Fairfield. Does the
          butterfly gain its superior Devachan wing colorings by tasting and
          facing sharper Devachan mysteries? What are sharper Devachan
          mysteries in the world around us? Do you know?

          The nervous disorder and infection that has built up to a craving in
          the moth also builds up in a human being. To become addicted to the
          falsity of mistaking S&M for Love or mistaking the Risen Etheric
          Christ imbued brotherhood for SunScreen; or quiet poisoning of
          Depleted Uranium in the woody whispers of forests and meadows that
          show acre upon acre of greenery, but, the forest is Chernobyl and
          the poison will remain this way, in the murky invisibility of occult
          deception, for 900 years, cursed. But all the elemntal beings will
          have been changed to monsters.. this represents only a fragment of
          the nature of the infection of the Asura and the corruption of Light
          itself. What is the shelf life of an elemental being?

          Jan, Joksu and I would also draw attention to Orc and Elve, but all
          these are specific studies and alas, only rare researchers engage
          their wings, engage their Devachan curiosity into regions where
          humanity strays from the light. Most haven't the science, the soul
          or the intelligence to see the hidden patterns running from
          religion, politics, science and through the halls of nature up to
          the soul of each human being. Therefore these big questions, ASURAS,
          make the squeamish want to run to the potty and pee.

          But when faddish craving for tatoo and torture, gothic sensuality
          and enjoying the torture and interrogation of prisoners and giving
          the nod to Abu Ghraib and CIA and Israel Gulags..left over from Nazi
          and Stalin infested Gulags, all these fads and immoral decisions of
          humanity move steadily toward Asura worship. That worship is what
          the disorder in the moth reveals. It shows that the wings have been
          depleted of their living light, their Devachan glory. Shrivelled
          brownish, sometimes pure white maggot ghost vegetable moths...and
          yet no matter how exotic the vampires of the night appear, the soul
          and the moth have absorbed a disorder of the order of the moral
          lesson of nature into their systems.

          For indeed A Sun Being of the magitude of the Christ turned with
          Solar Magnification into the single body of a human being and walked
          as a Sun Compass on the Earth. But equally, the beings who move our
          immortality forwards along the prayer of plants and the works and
          deeds of humanity through courage and compassion also have their
          Manichean polar opposite in the reverse of the progress, in the
          corrosion and eating away of the I AM through specific stages. Jan
          and Joksu can outline these specific stages with astonishing
          originality.

          To get to the core of the I AM and tear away portions of it, The I
          AM must be slowly corrupted from within. That Egotism could become
          so material that instead of eating my brothers and sisters hearts in
          spirit, in thought, in joy and celebration of their existence, we
          literally eat our brothers hearts. Instead of understanding the I AM
          in the blood we quantify and learn to breed certain racial strains
          of blood and flesh. We take cellular identity and we rob it of its
          orginality and chip pieces of the glory of the I AM into cloned,
          manmade cellular, star cursed, clusters of matter. Can we and will
          we go this far without plunging into the very Ethics out of which
          Spiritual Science and Anthroposophy are made of?
        • holderlin66
          Now we whisper together in the chrysalis of the christ Being. It is a fine gold dew or mist that is TRUSTED AND ENTRUSTED to the Lord of the Green Man just as
          Message 4 of 26 , Aug 11, 2004
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            Now we whisper together in the chrysalis of the christ Being.

            "It is a fine gold dew or mist that is TRUSTED AND ENTRUSTED to the
            Lord of the Green Man just as there are subtle quantities of gold in
            sperm..and we entrust ourselves to the Lord of Karma. It is the Sun
            Being behind the physical Sun and physical Solar system, the actual
            Being Seraphim baptized, Father blessed, Sun brotherhood that Rose
            and entered every crack of supposed atomic structure of earth and
            matter.. and now in every little crack circulates this gold mist..
            from the blood of Christ, because Christ penetrated down to the
            Marrow of the bones of Jesus.

            That makes Earth a mighty cocoon. How dare we think with such springs
            of thought? We do because Steiner and Nature reveal many secrets that
            are true Science."
          • Derek Hagen
            To all on this thread - haven t we gone too far in the directions of fear, fancy and abstraction? Balance, people, balance. Desperado 1945 ... Derek Hagen Mac
            Message 5 of 26 , Aug 11, 2004
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              To all on this thread - haven't we gone too far in the directions of
              fear, fancy and abstraction? Balance, people, balance.

              Desperado 1945
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            • Jan
              More synchronicity! I was very recently reading and pondering this poem..... Much food for thought Brad. Let the digesting begin.... Jan
              Message 6 of 26 , Aug 11, 2004
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                More synchronicity! I was very recently reading and pondering this
                poem..... Much food for thought Brad. Let the digesting begin....
                Jan



                > The White Moth.
                >
                > A. T. QUILLER COUCH
                >
                > If a leaf rustled, she would start:
                > And yet she died, a year ago
                > How had so frail a thing the heart
                > To journey where she trembled so?
                > And do they turn and turn in fright,
                > Those little feet, in so much night?
                >
                > The light above the poet's head
                > Streamed on the page and on the cloth,
                > And twice and thrice there buffeted
                > On the black pane a white-wingd moth:
                >
                > 'Twas Annie's soul that beat outside,
                > And "Open, open, open!" cried:
                > I could not find the way to God;
                > There were too many flaming suns
                >
                > For signposts, and the fearful road
                > Led over wastes where millions
                > Of tangled comets hissed and burned--
                > I was bewilder'd and I turned.
                >
                > "O, it was easy then! I knew
                > Your window and no star beside.
                > Look up and take me back to you!"
                > He rose and thrust the window wide.
                >
                > 'Twas but because his brain was hot
                > With rhyming; for he heard her not.
                > But poets polishing a phrase
                > Show anger over trivial things:
                >
                > And as she blundered in the blaze
                > Towards him, on ecstatic wings,
                > He raised a hand and smote her dead;
                > Then wrote, "That I had died instead."
                >
                > Bradford comments;
                >
                > There is an occult perception, very simple to observe, very complex
                > but as simple as any lesson that was ever written in the great book
                > of nature. Moth and Butterfly and how each relates to the light are
                > a visible lesson. What is the moral of this story? It has profound
                > meaning. Moths have an erratic nervous disorder in relation to the
                > light. Butterflies have a well organized Devachan imprint on their
                > wing patterns. Butterflies reveal tribe, nation, and pheromone
                > scented holiness of their distinct and specific tracking breed.
                >
                > In Spiritual Science we find the road to Konig and Steiner where a
                > Butterfly and the blossom and petals of a flower reveal a rooted
                > mystery and a freed mystery. In fact in any Waldorf Training camp we
                > can follow the steps of the caterpillar, the stages of it and see
                > how the Holy SPirit hovers in living and loving numerical ratio over
                > the blossom and plant kingdom. There is an entombment death and
                > Resurrection in the life of the caterpillar. In other words the
                > blossom and the butterfly are a calibrated match.
                >
                > I love the word calibrated, one can see a great deal with the word
                > calibrated. Size and ratio of Being to Being are calibrated. The
                > Moon moving closer or further away reveals the giant redwood forests
                > or the calibrated current size of the butterfly.
                >
                > The Butterfly is not a bird, it is the hovering soul and spirit,
                > Angels of the Plant world. How is your Nectar, blood sugar and
                > courage today? Do you really understand blood sugar and diabetes?
                > Has your sweet nectar also fed the Dead and your Angel? Has it
                > produced some thought life that is not merely bug lite?
                >
                > Now things go very differently for the moth. Here you have an
                > opportunity to study, "The Devil and Daniel Webster". This is an
                > important study, as important as Faust is to Anthros. "The Devil and
                > Daniel Webster" is really about imprisoning the soul/spirit and the
                > nature of Moth to light. It is part of the study that leads us
                > toward the objective lessons of the Asuras vs the courage of
                > humanity.
                >
                > But we need not study these texts..we find ourselves faint and
                > thought thickens, chills and slows in us. We crave a quicker
                > gratification to our question. The development of the Moth, its
                > brown, dried leaf imagery, where the life force has been depleted
                > from it, creates also an erratic nervous disorder in how the moth is
                > constantly fooled by Light. The moth is pathologically fooled by
                > false light. It suffers from a suicidal nervous disorder that
                > hungers for false light the way butterflies hunger for true Plant
                > perfume prayers. Prayers of perfume that the plant has wrought in
                > its humble earth bound enchantment rise into the air and these
                > prayer signals are read in the pheromone navigation of the tribes,
                > breeds and various families of butterfly Angels.
                >
                > Some might think Spiritual Science is being poetic on this point. If
                > you think this is a sweet poetic metaphor or analogy you have no
                > idea the depth of Goethean Science nor the depth of the question of
                > how to approach the fight against the Asuras. It is a topic that
                > still haunts us and makes us shiver. It makes us shiver more than
                > the Christ warms our courage. Or; how do we find courage and do we
                > need to constantly place ourselves in Frodo's matrix of tension?
                >
                > Jan wrote profoundly on the biographical excursions into dangerous
                > philosophic regions as explored by Isabel Fairfield. Does the
                > butterfly gain its superior Devachan wing colorings by tasting and
                > facing sharper Devachan mysteries? What are sharper Devachan
                > mysteries in the world around us? Do you know?
                >
                > The nervous disorder and infection that has built up to a craving in
                > the moth also builds up in a human being. To become addicted to the
                > falsity of mistaking S&M for Love or mistaking the Risen Etheric
                > Christ imbued brotherhood for SunScreen; or quiet poisoning of
                > Depleted Uranium in the woody whispers of forests and meadows that
                > show acre upon acre of greenery, but, the forest is Chernobyl and
                > the poison will remain this way, in the murky invisibility of occult
                > deception, for 900 years, cursed. But all the elemntal beings will
                > have been changed to monsters.. this represents only a fragment of
                > the nature of the infection of the Asura and the corruption of Light
                > itself. What is the shelf life of an elemental being?
                >
                > Jan, Joksu and I would also draw attention to Orc and Elve, but all
                > these are specific studies and alas, only rare researchers engage
                > their wings, engage their Devachan curiosity into regions where
                > humanity strays from the light. Most haven't the science, the soul
                > or the intelligence to see the hidden patterns running from
                > religion, politics, science and through the halls of nature up to
                > the soul of each human being. Therefore these big questions, ASURAS,
                > make the squeamish want to run to the potty and pee.
                >
                > But when faddish craving for tatoo and torture, gothic sensuality
                > and enjoying the torture and interrogation of prisoners and giving
                > the nod to Abu Ghraib and CIA and Israel Gulags..left over from Nazi
                > and Stalin infested Gulags, all these fads and immoral decisions of
                > humanity move steadily toward Asura worship. That worship is what
                > the disorder in the moth reveals. It shows that the wings have been
                > depleted of their living light, their Devachan glory. Shrivelled
                > brownish, sometimes pure white maggot ghost vegetable moths...and
                > yet no matter how exotic the vampires of the night appear, the soul
                > and the moth have absorbed a disorder of the order of the moral
                > lesson of nature into their systems.
                >
                > For indeed A Sun Being of the magitude of the Christ turned with
                > Solar Magnification into the single body of a human being and walked
                > as a Sun Compass on the Earth. But equally, the beings who move our
                > immortality forwards along the prayer of plants and the works and
                > deeds of humanity through courage and compassion also have their
                > Manichean polar opposite in the reverse of the progress, in the
                > corrosion and eating away of the I AM through specific stages. Jan
                > and Joksu can outline these specific stages with astonishing
                > originality.
                >
                > To get to the core of the I AM and tear away portions of it, The I
                > AM must be slowly corrupted from within. That Egotism could become
                > so material that instead of eating my brothers and sisters hearts in
                > spirit, in thought, in joy and celebration of their existence, we
                > literally eat our brothers hearts. Instead of understanding the I AM
                > in the blood we quantify and learn to breed certain racial strains
                > of blood and flesh. We take cellular identity and we rob it of its
                > orginality and chip pieces of the glory of the I AM into cloned,
                > manmade cellular, star cursed, clusters of matter. Can we and will
                > we go this far without plunging into the very Ethics out of which
                > Spiritual Science and Anthroposophy are made of?
                >
                >
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              • joksu57
                Hello Brad and Jan! Bradford brought up very inspiring ideas about the Sun Being, gold (as a metal belonging to the Sun) and Earth as a cocoon. Then I
                Message 7 of 26 , Aug 11, 2004
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                  Hello Brad and Jan!

                  Bradford brought up very inspiring ideas about the Sun Being, gold
                  (as a metal "belonging" to the Sun) and Earth as a cocoon. Then I
                  remembered a parable about the Kingdom of Heaven given to us by
                  Christ Jesus:
                  "The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and
                  hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened."

                  This "leaven" (or a "mustard seed" in an another parable) is the
                  true spiritual gold brought to Earth by Christ Jesus and our
                  Heavenly Father. And now Earth is a mighty cocoon, because Earth is
                  in a process of becaming a future Sun; transforming slowly to
                  Spiritual Gold! A "Logos-mission" lies ahead of our humanity and
                  that is why our school in this planet is so hard and thorough.

                  It's so nice to exchange thoughts with you again, Brad. As I told to
                  Jan earlier, the first half of this years was quite difficult to me
                  and I didn't have the energy to write anything to the forum. But
                  then before my voyage to London I wrote to Jan. We exhanged some
                  posts and finally we had an inspiring meeting in Jan's home. And now
                  I feel much better!

                  Jan, in my first post I also thought about the Manicheans and I have
                  felt a long time that the teachings of Mr. Ervast are bordering
                  closely the Manichean stream. After the changes in Karma, I think
                  that nowadays the Manichean magic has more possibilities to become
                  operative. Jesus Christ of course showed us what it is like when one
                  is "not resisting evil". But martyrdom was the fate of the early
                  christians. And "speakers of thruth" were killed along many, many
                  centuries. But in later times, e.g. Leo Tolstoy, HPB and Dr. Steiner
                  could live and work. When we think about Rudolf Steiner, certainly
                  there was martyrdom in his life, but now it was connected to his
                  work and teachings; he was not killed.

                  After the second, ethereal coming of the Christ, possibilities are
                  much greater. Those souls, who strive in earnest but don't succeed
                  in one incarnation to fulfill their special "duty" (dharma), have
                  anyway made great preparations towards their next incarnation.
                  Christ is the Lord of Karma and there is no reason for despair.

                  Jan, give my regards to Graham; the Camden Town was interesting
                  place, Ahto really loved it!

                  Joksu
                • joksu57
                  Hi Derek! And a more balanced, less fancy and more concrete view in this thread named How to fight against Asuras would be something like... hmmm??? From my
                  Message 8 of 26 , Aug 12, 2004
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                    Hi Derek!

                    And a more balanced, less fancy and more concrete view in this
                    thread named "How to fight against Asuras" would be something like...
                    hmmm???

                    From my point of view the question about fear is interesting and
                    relevant. A spiritual teacher once gave (IMO) a good description
                    about fear and according to my clumsy translation it goes something
                    like this: "fear is belief in evil". And what is feared is usually
                    resisted or then we fearfully "run away". That's why the figure of
                    Christ and the true meaning of Love cannot be overlooked in this
                    context. (Love is a good antidote to fear.) I think that in the
                    advice "resist not evil" there is an aspect about "misplaced energy",
                    which can be transformed. I suppose that this approach requires a lot
                    of courage.

                    Taking the so called evil solely the subject of our meditations can
                    be dangerous. The readers of Tolkien surely understand if I mention
                    in this connection the concept "Saruman-effect" (I really don't know
                    if such a concept has ever been mentioned before). Anyway after
                    studying eagerly the "black" figure of Sauron, the old wizard started
                    to believe in the might of the evil. There is also the danger
                    of "creeping pessimism" in our worldview.

                    But naturally these before mentioned "circumstances" do not refute
                    the fact that also the "darker regions" of existance must be
                    explored. Perhaps here we really need the balance about which Derek
                    talked about.

                    Warm Regards
                    Joksu


                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Derek Hagen <dhagen@a...> wrote:
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                  • holderlin66
                    Bradford wrote; If we look at the infection and the effects that radiation and DU or Depleted Urnaium has on man..we also come to an elemental mystery of how
                    Message 9 of 26 , Aug 16, 2004
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                      Bradford wrote;

                      "If we look at the infection and the effects that radiation and DU or
                      Depleted Urnaium has on man..we also come to an elemental mystery of
                      how moral forces and betrayed fire spirits, ancient Agni fire gods,
                      and spirits have been knocked out of sync with human development
                      through our nuclear testing. You might say, how did you get that
                      strange idea Bugford? Well my geiger counter is going to tell me
                      that this part of the woods is not going to be safe to walk. Even if
                      everything looks the same, the buildings are intact, flowers seem to
                      grow, cars are in the streets, food is in cans, but something is
                      wrong, the people are all dead.

                      But try to hold in your depleted brain case, under the evil
                      enchantment that allows thinking to go toward suicide, that Steiner,
                      and most here on this list, will verify to your wicked enchantment
                      that moral fire, elemental beings, salamanders and fire spirits of
                      the great Agni, Asura and Sorathian variety, garden variety Saturn
                      Courage and Immortality forces that are hiding as the central Core
                      of the I AM and the conscious link to white or black magic are real
                      FIRE."

                      Further comments;

                      Friends we must needs ask ourselves, and those who remain in kiddie
                      park abstraction, well, just sit in the back of the classroom and
                      try not to fall asleep, we need to ask ourselves, if the fire tear
                      in the ethers from nuclear enhanced matter allows the release of
                      moral fire from the inner core of the Earth?

                      What does this statement mean? We do not see the Fire Agni Spirits
                      but they kill us in our bone marrow none the less. Moral forces are
                      layered into the nine layers of the inner earth. And for humans the
                      most refined moral ethers circulate in the core of our bones. In a
                      way it is like moving from the epidermal layers of the outer skin of
                      a human to the very core of the heart.

                      "The skin is your largest organ, weighing about four kilograms and
                      covering about two square metres. It is your interface with the
                      environment, protecting you against chemicals, bacteria and
                      radiation, helping you to maintain a stable body temperature, and
                      stopping you from losing fluid and vital body chemicals. Your skin
                      contains nerve endings that allow you to feel objects. Nails, which
                      are also part of your skin layer, enable you to prise things open.

                      The skin is waterproof, strong and resilient, yet also flexible. It
                      consists of two layers of cells. The outer layer is called the
                      epidermis and is made up of epithelial cells. The epidermis is
                      supported from below by the dermis, which is a network of elastic
                      fibres, blood vessels, hair follicles and roots, nerve endings, and
                      sweat and lymph glands. Underneath the dermis, there is another
                      layer of cells known as the hypodermis, which contains loose
                      connective tissue and fat.

                      The epidermis contains many layers of closely packed cells. The
                      cells nearest the skin's surface are flat and filled with a hard
                      substance called keratin. The epidermis contains no blood vessels –
                      these are all in the dermis and deeper layers."

                      Bradford continues;

                      Can you see patches, literally holes torn in the ethers, where the
                      Agni ancient Saturn and Asuric forces crawl out of their entombment
                      in the inner earth and search for the food which they need? The food
                      which they need is the moral fire of the immortal forces of the
                      human being. People look carefully at these things. What is "The
                      Hunger"? Well it was a film but now we are dealing with prematurely
                      released fire. We think that by taking the precautions we have taken
                      in nuclear plants around the world that we are containing, juggling
                      and defusing the ancient released, Agni Fire Spirits.

                      Technology thinks it contains these things. But let us look at the
                      moral bone marrow hunger of the future moral fire, prematurely
                      opened in the ether holes of the planet. In the core of the occult
                      Earth we compressed and contained the negative field of the higher I
                      AM. Along the surface of the planet, where we live, we go about our
                      daily lives and our incarnations and our cultural developments with
                      a brushing and submerged insight into forces, powerful cosmic forces
                      that presently are pressing up from the Core of the Earth into our
                      laps.

                      Now the accelerated field of holes, neatly placed nuclear power
                      plants, can be compared, and pay attention here people, can be
                      compared to how the Brotherhoods planted Churches at significant
                      distances, and paths along the surface of the Earth. Some of those
                      Churches have their foundations in ancient elemental and occult foci
                      or geographic mysteries. Pagan Elemental wells, springs, lunar
                      intersections, Greenwich longitude Time markers. Etheric language
                      accents and etheric plant forces move along these occult markers.

                      "Everyone uses Greenwich Time (pronounced "Grenich"). This is the
                      time at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, England. Greenwich is
                      the place where the "zero" line of longitude runs (north-south).
                      Why? Because it had to be somewhere and at the time it was defined,
                      Britain was the Big Cheese.

                      It is also called "International Time", or "Greenwich Mean Time."

                      Interestingly, the rotation period of the Earth is not exactly 24
                      hours. It is 23 hours 59 minutes and a few seconds. It is gradually
                      slowing down due to the tidal influence of the Moon. As the Moon is
                      forced farther away, it bleeds rotational energy from the Earth,
                      slowing the Earth. It moves away a few centimeters a year.
                      Eventually it will be lost (millions of years from now, or
                      billions)."

                      Bradford adds;

                      But Steiner had posed a future relationship with the Moon that might
                      grow complex bits of morality, human brain substance devoid of
                      morality, combined with immoral techno, semi-ensouled machine
                      beings. If the Moon drifts away we see a vast micro world, a nano
                      technology wizardry in the layered intellect arising. If the Moon
                      after drifting away comes closer, these fragments can arise to
                      overthrow human beings. We are part of the process now in how we
                      hold our own Calibrated development within certain margins or betray
                      that margin irrationally because we do not have the courage, spirit
                      or thinking capacity to see the interconnectedness of things. And to
                      share Steiner's pre-emptive insights that these immoral techno
                      beings between silcon stone and plant arise to insect layer and
                      arose from our union with insect like techno achievements uprooted
                      from moral forces is to follow an intense line of thinking that
                      specialization in our sciences and Morality in our world, refuses to
                      make.

                      Now the Agni/Asuric forces we deal with in slow infection have to do
                      with accelerated moral decay. If the human being can be hurled along
                      paths, hurled meaning, it appears slow, but in relation to nuclear
                      fission holes in the ether and releasing out of sync future Asuric
                      elementals into the environment, look you, gradually morality begins
                      to decay. No Geneva Convention will stand up against our inability
                      to see the connection of things in the universe.

                      In semi summary:

                      Ancient Saturn, where anthro impaired thinkers have not explored, is
                      where our fire and immortality were salvaged and linked, along with
                      the destiny of Christ to slow moral development, Earth based
                      development. But because of the very nature of the Christ entering
                      the core of the Earth, there has come to us, even before we are
                      ready to think through these things, a kind of accelerated Manichean
                      moral issue, of slow or rapid addiction, moral decay, devouring
                      ecstasy pills and participating in happy time sexual orgies,
                      released free basing Porn, offered for all ages and all tastes. Now
                      this challenge of the dark fires against the challenge of the white
                      fires need not creep up on us in such a secret and infectious
                      manner. We refuse to think and catch up to these things none the
                      less.

                      We could picture to ourselves how various technologies we release on
                      the upper part of the globe are really part of the key codes that
                      release deeper and deeper occult mysteries in layers of the inner
                      Earth. But we must have real thinking to approach our countrymen
                      with living educational insights. The closest thing to imagining all
                      that I have said here, would be Sauron and his ancient Saturn
                      development.

                      "Sauron (which means "terrible" in Kvenian) is a supreme being,
                      ainur, created by the thought of Iluvatar (i.e. "father of
                      everything") from Flame Imperishable. He is one of the makers of
                      Arda, a visible world, as well as a maiar. Sauron served Aule the
                      Smith, the Lord of all the beings. He is the embodiment of Evil
                      in "The Lord of the Rings".

                      Bradford folds arms;

                      It is to our horror and nightmare that we present wonderful nuclear
                      containment, reams of techno gibberish and yet fail to imagine what
                      truly makes up the Moral forces of our Earth. Our failure to
                      understand the holes we are knocking in the occult Earth with our
                      nuclear testing, and sprinkling of the ecosystem with Depleted
                      Uranium etc, produces future fire energy without present or past
                      fire insight.

                      All of this as it relates to the Christ Being has been hidden from
                      us. All of this, as it relates to locations of nuclear plants and
                      new churches for the Asuric Beings to be thrust into cannisters and
                      dumped in mountains like sacred Native American grounds and Yucca
                      Mountain or tossed to leak and rust at the bottom of the seas,
                      reveals a failure to understand the Beasts of Light that we must
                      needs encounter as Picture and Imagination and as Science and
                      Technology. Central to such understanding is the core of the
                      Immortality of Humanity and the mystery of the Occult Core of the
                      Nine Layered Earth.

                      In Christic Imaginations you can go to any Altar of the Christian
                      Community or to Waldorf Schools and see brilliant paintings,
                      Imaginations of the Christ Being in all his Solar glory painted
                      around the pictured Golgotha event and Michael and the Dragon
                      pictures at the entrance ways to schools. Let us link the related
                      fields of insight along these lines.

                      Einstein, Oppenheimer and President Harry Truman, 33rd President of
                      the United States, reveals the culmination of a cycle of a 12 year
                      assault by Ahrimanic Beings to finally establish the release on
                      Earth of lofty imprisoned Fire Beings. Incinerating Agni fire
                      spirits were used directly on Human Beings to end WWII. But all we
                      deal with are the symptoms not the underlying stream of moral
                      events. Hitler was just a core, vortex personality along with Japan
                      which focused and motivated all parties, all the warring parties to
                      give birth to the nuclear beast. We fail to see that that was the
                      intention of Ahrimanic and frustrating and pressing forces of WWII.
                      We fail to see how the reverberations of the Christ Etheric Rising
                      and the birth of Spiritual Science caused such mighty choatic
                      ripples in the chaos of the moral sphere of Man. These ugly
                      motivating inspirations moved along in conjunction with the Christ
                      Event of 1933 and the depth of Initiation Science released by Dr.
                      Steiner.

                      In Christic terms there is one Gold twenty dollar piece minted in
                      1933, the only and last one left after the batch were destroyed,
                      that was worth 8 million dollars. Gold and the human I AM are in
                      refined enhanced moral distribution over the whole Earth. Coupled
                      with fine Iron forces that enter the blood through the meteor
                      showers in August.

                      Now science recently have revealed to stunned researchers how great
                      patches of Sea are sinisterly cold and devoid of oxygen. Fish
                      suddenly swim in these mighty migrating oxygenless cool regions and
                      whole regions of flora, fauna and fish die of asphixiation. These
                      migrating shadow patches of icy clustered waters are moving in our
                      oceans like giant cancerous cells of life sucking, etheric depleting
                      gloomy monsters.

                      Gatherered around our cities, Asuric like Predator shadows, and if
                      we need a picture, imagine the Predator movie with a being invisible
                      to our sight, but in their elemental power, stalk the cities for
                      prey and to feed on moral depravity. You ask about gun control and
                      stopping crime and blah, and blah, and blah, and what little efforts
                      to take hold of the whole picture of the moral sphere of humanity,
                      does the tiny patch of whining do? Yes we shouldn't hurt each other
                      now should we? We shouldn't have those bad, bad impulses now should
                      we? But where in blithering hell do you think these impulses are
                      coming from, if not man himself and being drawn out of him in a
                      decayed light infected environment.

                      We imagine that violence, and War and wonderful helium ideas of
                      peace can arise when we are unaware of how profoundly interconnected
                      and potent are the forces that we are not dealing with. Why? Because
                      the specialization of departments of thinking at our universities
                      have severed the interconnectedness of reality that RAchel Carson
                      grasped.

                      The Church fails us in catching up with Imagination. "Lord of the
                      Rings" is quickly buried a Pop culture tweeks, clubs and crackpots
                      but the Imagination is not applied, the fruit of the writing and the
                      film is harvesting the pictures that overlay our moral development
                      and our sciences. Human beings just scamper away from considering
                      the reality of our current Abu Ghraib and over 200 world wide
                      Torture chambers, torture Photo Ops and smiling gawking over
                      tortured and murdered humans. This little argument, against the
                      Geneva Convention that the United States has raised is just the tip
                      of a massive iceberg on which we are riding. Dare you imagine what
                      is under our feet and how the whole layered strata of Earth are
                      truly based on Occult nucleus of how the bones of man are made and
                      the central core of the force of the I Am?

                      So have we ripped holes in the Ether strata to let these beings out
                      and is our technology from GPS and microwave satellites and our
                      positioning of nuclear reactors and other deadly labs linked
                      together with our military satellite operations creating a kind of
                      projection in space of inner earth occult realities?

                      To understand the long forgotten notion of "The China Syndrome" we
                      must be reminded that melting, fizzling, Fire Spirit infected
                      immoral matter could, through a nuclear meltdown, melt all the way
                      through from one point on the Earth, all the way through the Earth
                      and down to the otherside of the Earth in was is termed Meltdown or
                      the China Syndrome. It was called "The China Syndrome" but what type
                      of cluster of embryonic monsters would arise if such melting into
                      the core of the Earth would ever occur?

                      Kids in the back of the classroom can now go to recess now, while
                      the rest of us ponder the predicatment and corner we have painted
                      ourselves into.
                    • Jan
                      Bradford wrote, among other valuable insights, So have we ripped holes in the Ether strata to let these beings out and is our technology from GPS and
                      Message 10 of 26 , Aug 17, 2004
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                        Bradford wrote, among other valuable insights,

                        "So have we ripped holes in the Ether strata to let these beings out
                        and is our technology from GPS and microwave satellites and our
                        positioning of nuclear reactors and other deadly labs linked
                        together with our military satellite operations creating a kind of
                        projection in space of inner earth occult realities?"



                        From the back of the class......

                        I believe that what is written above is truly the case. Those among us who
                        are seasoned anthros are used to ingesting and digesting such strong meat,
                        and develop the inner stomach-solvent digestive juices necessary. So it is
                        good to present such difficult and heart-rending material. Steiner pointed
                        out that the Book of Revelation of John the Divine is the Manichean Manual
                        for understanding evil and also that evil is in its infancy. We cannot
                        afford to be cowed or fazed by these and even greater evils to come, the
                        revealing of which is certain as Christ casts ever more light upon darkened
                        places and the morth-brood come out of the shadows into our consciousness,
                        confident, over confident perhaps, of our paralysis and fear induced mental
                        captivity. For the Adversaries have a habit of laughing too soon.....

                        Those less familiar with anthroposophy and I know there are such on this
                        list, might ask what to do with such knowledge that they may not be
                        discouraged by the sheer scale of the onslaught and overcome? The first
                        thing of course is to acknowledge what Steiner often told, that knowing is
                        the first protection and the greatest hindrance to the adversaries, so study
                        and honest striving for insight is essential. The first and greatest
                        Ahrimanic deception is achieved by tying us to dead weights of heredity,
                        atoms and placing us in a mechanistic universe with the belief that we are
                        simply naked apes and so devoid of any spiritual power to change the
                        situation in which we find ourselves. Its all too big and we are all too
                        small and puny goes the constant refrain. Wrong again. Ahriman covets and
                        fears what is laid down by the Gods in the human being. His victory lies in
                        keeping us all enchanted as frogs rather than princes and princesses, serfs
                        and wage slaves rather than Royal Children of the Father, younger Brothers
                        and Sisters of the Christ. What appears so frail and minute in the
                        Ahrimanically presented schema - human spiritual potential - is actually
                        great, creative and powerful. The human heart is the true magnifying agent.
                        Our very anger, when righteously aroused on our brother's behalf, becomes
                        the power of blessing in later life.

                        While it is true that the forces of evil, presently swarming through the
                        moth-holes in our etheric moral atmosphere, embodied in nano technology and
                        manipulated genome, clothed in lie and the dark fairy tale of modern
                        science, are very great and growing greater, it is also true that a mustard
                        seed is, or appears, very small. And yet is mighty. As is a halfling-hobbit.
                        The fulcrum here is the power of what appears tiniest, seemingly less
                        significant, but is actually spiritually colossal. The power of turning
                        inside out. Moon magnification of evil is fore-cast already by Ahriman in
                        the electro magnetic nexus of manipulated news, spider-spun and enwebbing
                        the earth in a counter-butterfly cocoon, to bring forth only the still-born
                        and aborted. The lie is daily affirmed by media such as the BBC or British
                        Brainwashing Corporation and all its outlets around the world, among many
                        others, designed specifically to terrorize and divide. The broadcasting of
                        the 1938 'War of the Worlds' as a news item was only partly a deliberately
                        connived Tavistock style experiment in mass mind manipulation and crowd
                        control. It was also farming, harvesting of fear, food for beings who
                        continue to factory farm and milk us like cows. As long as we let them.
                        (It is worth while to ask who actually authors these daily terror 'news'
                        reports. We know the names of the anchormen and women. News read by 'so
                        and so' written by Anon.)
                        Events are moon-magnified; we see elongated shadows, not the shriveled
                        and desiccated beings who cast them.
                        We can take up our true powers, friends, in the tiniest of ways, here and
                        now, in everyday life. So we help to Christen the world around us. Because
                        we are the new Priesthood. It is vital that we take up this work.

                        Churches were sited not only upon holy, healing wells and caverns of
                        ancient initiation but also deliberately built upon vortex sites of evil
                        earth energies, often of a very baleful, raw kind and consciously
                        transformed within the community of the church, often by means of ceremony
                        and chanting, re-enchanting into raised and useful form what was seeping
                        from darker regions of the earth. A form of search and transform - a
                        Manichean journey into the darkest places secure in the magical power of
                        Christ-light. This is no longer understood and it is the task of those who
                        can to detect and act in an appropriate way upon such energies, as there are
                        ever more sources. There is much more to say on this, perhaps on future
                        occasions. Soloman, for instance, set four thousand to sing praises during
                        the building of the Temple, that beacon for the incarnating human, that it
                        might have a sound and re-sounding foundation. Because true praise, real
                        praise knowingly in-toned is the surest means of uplifting and re creating
                        fallen or generally suspect etheric energies. But it is sound science. It
                        requires real knowledge.
                        Brad's revealing of various new inroads into humanity by the darkest and
                        most powerful entities and putting them into context is one such knowing
                        science. This calibrates them, relates them via spiritual insight to the
                        true measure of Man and sets them within the context of evolution potentials
                        and dangers and gives them, and us, true size and spiritual ratio. The true
                        central point of measure must always be Christ.

                        The worst thing is to fear. Moment by moment, in daily life we may be
                        priest/priestess and lift our immediate world and also greater world affairs
                        right from under the nose of the Adversary by consciously sanctifying each
                        act, directing our thought spirit-ward. No need to fear surveillance camera
                        or biometric chip. They can only monitor physical movements and brain bound
                        thinking. Sense free thinking is inaccessible to them.
                        Will depleted uranium be deadly in 900 years? Perhaps. Perhaps not. It
                        may well depend upon what spiritual capacities we, even you and I friends,
                        manage to develop. There may be those on earth in times to come who can heal
                        and absorb harmful radiation. Mary Fullerson, who was healed from cancer by
                        a truly life changing meeting with the Etheric Christ has said that
                        'Radiance overcomes radiation.' And for those who did not read it in earlier
                        posts, here she is again.

                        Quote from 'The Form of the Fourth' by Mary Fullerson

                        "We go deeper now. The skin is the outermost boundary of tangible, physical
                        form; bone marrow is the opposite pole of inmost being. When the one is
                        touched, the other reached by conscious Fire, they are made impervious and
                        self restoring. When we relate properly to others in our thoughts and our
                        feelings, our skin is changed. Marrow is quickened when we relate properly
                        to Christ. This is the axis of surrender, the polarization of the two great
                        Laws of Love as they affect physical tissue.
                        radiation fall out is the negative energy resulting from man's abortive
                        and self motivated use of cosmic powers. It can be changed to Light. Each
                        particle can be transformed, beginning in the body of each Son. There the
                        charge of negative can meet the positive of true dedication in an actual
                        alchemy of radiation. It then ceases to damage and becomes an energizing
                        factor to protect and emanate as transforming Light. As the transforming
                        Blood is felt to circulate through arteries and veins when there is true
                        identification in the Eucharistic rite, awareness of the Fire of
                        Transfiguration makes it possible to feel the Light Body circulating through
                        the marrow. This is Radiance. Radiance overcomes radiation. It will do
                        this literally. Conscious Fire, Element of the invincible, posited in bone
                        and marrow, agrees in essence with the Form of the Overcomer and attracts it
                        there. Being of the same substance with the Light of etheric Presence,
                        there is a magnetic drawing together and in the circle of Light which the
                        two bodies form, radiation of lower level or degree is powerless. This is
                        the Law of superior energy which man will come to know and live by in New
                        Day." end quote.


                        The word and means of power is available to us all. It is gentleness. The
                        most important thing is to be kind. To whatsoever we are kind we are kin,
                        kindred; we become relations, but more than ordinary blood relations, -
                        brought into the purified blood relation of human-kind - the sweet
                        measureless measure of love, pressed down and overflowing.
                        Jan
                      • Mark Willan
                        Bon jour Je vous rèpons hors liste, car je viens tout juste de rentrer d un voyage en outre-Manche. Le sujet que vous abordez est loin d être simple, et les
                        Message 11 of 26 , Aug 17, 2004
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                          Bon jour

                          Je vous rèpons hors liste, car je viens tout juste de rentrer d'un
                          voyage en outre-Manche.

                          Le sujet que vous abordez est loin d'être simple, et les techniques qui
                          ont été esquissées ne tiennent pas la route, car les ASURAS sont les
                          forces Anti-Christiques par -excellence. (Voir les 2 cycles par Steiner
                          sur l'Apocalyopse).

                          Dans mon passé j'ai eu occasion d,avoir un co0ntact personnel avec les
                          Asurtas, et si j'en suis sorti, ce n'est pas grâce ni aux forces du
                          Christ étherique, ni la médiation de4 la Rose -Croix, mais j'ai été
                          obligé de subir, tout simplkement, le temps de la ren contre, car je
                          n'avais pas encore développé mes propres foces individuelles
                          suffisamment pour pouvoir ne pas avoit été tout simplement dépassé.

                          Après-coup, ou8i, en effet le Christ est interveu comme une baume pour
                          guréiri le mal causé, mais malgé de longues dicussions personnel;les
                          avec Gérard Klockenbring (J'étais à l'époquie membre du bureau de la
                          Communauté de Chrétiens à Paris), cela n'a pas quand même pu enlever
                          tous les effets néfatses, que je dois encore subir à une distance de
                          quelquies 10 ans.

                          Si vous souhaitez m,en parler de vive voix, vous pouvez me contacter
                          aux c o-ordonnées ci-dessous, mais sachez que ce n'est pas un argument
                          que J'aborde bien volontiers, car apres déjà plus de 20 ans de travail
                          personnel quotidien sans cesse sur les 5 exercices, méditations
                          Steineriennes etc. je n'ai pas été personnellement capable de réussir
                          ma seule rencontre avec ces entités. Dans ces conditiosn j'avoue que
                          bien peu d'hommes disposent de nos jours la force intérieure requise,
                          mêem pôur considérer ces adversaires.

                          Excusez mes erreurs de frappe, mais je réponds vite, caqr tardivement.

                          J'espère quand même que cela popurra vous être utile.

                          Bon courage!



                          Mark WILLAN

                          3 place des Cines
                          06560 Valbonne Sophia Antipolis
                          France
                          Tel : +33 4 9296 0919
                          Fax : +33 4 9296 9004
                          Mob : +33 6 7320 4006

                          mwillan@...
                          translate@...
                          mark.willan@...
                          contact@...

                          On 08 Aug, 2004, at 04:35 pm, muriel durand-bourlier wrote:

                          > Rudolf Steiner speaks about Asuras  : a third stream of spirits of
                          > opposition (with Lucifer and Ahriman), which are retarded Archai who
                          > work to destroy the human "I", the Ego itself. The Asuras might be
                          > agents of the actual Antichrist, the Sun-Demon, known to occultism as
                          > "Sorat" (or "Sorath"). To fight against forces of Lucifer and Ahriman,
                          > we need appeal to Christ. But to fight against Asuras, someone told me
                          > Christ energies aren't effective, Asuras are more powerful. Does
                          > someone know which divine entity (entities ?) is able to help to fight
                          > against Asuras ?
                          > At present, I haven't yet found in Rudolf Steiner texts, references on
                          > the energy or entity who can help, who is as or more powerful as/than
                          > Asuras.
                          > I've thought of Bouddha or of other hindou gods but I haven't found
                          > any confirmation of that. It may be other god(s) or energy.
                          >  
                          > Does someone have ideas and indicate in which references I can read
                          > about ?
                          > Thank you for your help.
                          >  
                          > Muriel.
                          >  
                          > PS 1 : The faster you can answer, the best it is for me.
                          > PS 2 : Excuse my English errors, I'm French and haven't a perfect
                          > knowledge of English language.
                          >
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                        • holderlin66
                          http://www.usatoday.com/news/science/2004-08-17-new-saturn- moons_x.htm The Cassini spacecraft has spotted two previously unknown and small moons orbiting
                          Message 12 of 26 , Aug 17, 2004
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                            http://www.usatoday.com/news/science/2004-08-17-new-saturn-
                            moons_x.htm

                            "The Cassini spacecraft has spotted two previously unknown and small
                            moons orbiting Saturn in an unexpected location.The satellites are
                            tiny, about 2 miles (3 kilometers) and 2.5 miles (4 kilometers) in
                            diameter. They orbit within 131,000 miles (211,000 kilometers) of
                            the planet's center.

                            Tiny, tiny S/2004 is marked by a box in this Cassini image.
                            Image courtesy NASA/JPL/Space Science Institute.

                            The discoveries bring the total of Saturn's known moons to 33.
                            Number 31 was discovered last year with a ground-based telescope."
                          • Danny F.
                            ... There shouldn t be more - right Bradford? :) That which reminds us of the Reversal to (the) Support: Outpoured Word - Subtantially - Itself-Symphony That
                            Message 13 of 26 , Aug 18, 2004
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                              > The discoveries bring the total of Saturn's known moons to 33.
                              > Number 31 was discovered last year with a ground-based telescope."

                              There shouldn't be more - right Bradford? :)

                              That which reminds us of the Reversal to (the) Support:
                              Outpoured Word - Subtantially - Itself-Symphony
                              That became MIDDLE-Man Spine Bones Fragments Frozen Sea!

                              But Back to our handbook - in the OPTIC of what Jan said:
                              "While it is true that the forces of evil, presently swarming
                              through the
                              moth-holes in our etheric moral atmosphere, embodied in nano
                              technology and
                              manipulated genome, clothed in lie and the dark fairy tale of modern
                              science, are very great and growing greater, it is also true that a
                              mustard
                              seed is, or appears, very small. And yet is mighty. As is a halfling-
                              hobbit.
                              The fulcrum here is the power of what appears tiniest, seemingly less
                              significant, but is actually spiritually colossal. The power of
                              turning
                              inside out. Moon magnification of evil is fore-cast already by
                              Ahriman in
                              the electro magnetic nexus of manipulated news, spider-spun and
                              enwebbing
                              the earth in a counter-butterfly cocoon, to bring forth only the
                              still-born
                              and aborted."
                              "Events are moon-magnified; we see elongated shadows, not the
                              shriveled
                              and desiccated beings who cast them.
                              We can take up our true powers, friends, in the tiniest of ways, here
                              and
                              now, in everyday life. So we help to Christen the world around us.
                              Because
                              we are the new Priesthood. It is vital that we take up this work."

                              /

                              "When you see a giant, the first thing to do is to determine the
                              position of the sun–and check to see if it's not actually the shadow
                              of a pygmy."

                              "In the future world everything is as in the previous world–and yet
                              everything is completely different. The future world is rational
                              chaos–the chaos which penetrated itself and which is both inside and
                              outside itself: Chaos2 or infinite. The genuine fairy tale must
                              simultaneously be a prophetic representation, an idealistic
                              representation, and an absolutely determined representation. The
                              genuine creator of fairy tales is a seer of the future."

                              "Humanity is one of the planet's senses. The human eye is the
                              planet's eye raised to look at the heavens. The human nerve is the
                              means of connecting the planet to the higher world."

                              "We are cosmometers."

                              "Imagination is the miraculous sense which can replace all other
                              senses and which is already so much under our control. While the
                              external senses appear to be wholly subject to mechanical laws,
                              imagination is bound neither to the present nor to contact with
                              external stimuli."

                              –Novalis

                              Jan again:

                              "chanting, re-enchanting into raised and useful form what was seeping
                              from darker regions of the earth. A form of search and transform - a
                              Manichean journey into the darkest places secure in the magical power
                              of
                              Christ-light. This is no longer understood and it is the task of
                              those who
                              can to detect and act in an appropriate way upon such energies, as
                              there are
                              ever more sources. There is much more to say on this, perhaps on
                              future
                              occasions."

                              And Bradford, Friends;

                              "Can you see patches, literally holes torn in the ethers, where the
                              Agni ancient Saturn and Asuric forces crawl out of their entombment
                              in the inner earth and search for the food which they need? The food
                              which they need is the moral fire of the immortal forces of the
                              human being."...


                              Danny




                              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                              <holderlin66@h...> wrote:
                              > http://www.usatoday.com/news/science/2004-08-17-new-saturn-
                              > moons_x.htm
                              >
                              > "The Cassini spacecraft has spotted two previously unknown and
                              small
                              > moons orbiting Saturn in an unexpected location.The satellites are
                              > tiny, about 2 miles (3 kilometers) and 2.5 miles (4 kilometers) in
                              > diameter. They orbit within 131,000 miles (211,000 kilometers) of
                              > the planet's center.
                              >
                              > Tiny, tiny S/2004 is marked by a box in this Cassini image.
                              > Image courtesy NASA/JPL/Space Science Institute.
                              >
                              > The discoveries bring the total of Saturn's known moons to 33.
                              > Number 31 was discovered last year with a ground-based telescope."
                            • Danny F.
                              In whom the Gods, knowers of Brahman, acknowledge Brahman as the Supreme--he who knows the Gods face to face is truly a Knower, a Vehicle of Brahman Atharva
                              Message 14 of 26 , Aug 18, 2004
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                                In whom the Gods, knowers of Brahman, acknowledge Brahman as the
                                Supreme--he who knows the Gods face to face is truly a Knower, a
                                Vehicle
                                of Brahman

                                Atharva Veda X, 7, 24


                                Great are the Gods who were born from Nonbeing, yet men aver this
                                Nonbeing
                                to be the single limb of the Support, the great Beyond.

                                Atharva Veda X, 7, 25


                                The limb in which the Support, when generating, evolved the Ancient
                                One--who knows this limb knows too by that same knowledge the Ancient
                                One.

                                Atharva Veda X, 7, 26


                                It was from his limb that the thirty-three Gods distributed portions
                                among themselves. Thus in truth only knowers of Brahman are also
                                knowers
                                of the thirty-three Gods.

                                Atharva Veda X, 7, 27


                                Men recognize the Golden Embryo as the unutterable, the Supreme. Yet
                                it
                                was the Support who in the beginning poured forth upon the world that
                                stream of gold.

                                Atharva Veda X, 7, 28


                                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                                <holderlin66@h...> wrote:
                                > http://www.usatoday.com/news/science/2004-08-17-new-saturn-
                                > moons_x.htm
                                >
                                > "The Cassini spacecraft has spotted two previously unknown and
                                small
                                > moons orbiting Saturn in an unexpected location.The satellites are
                                > tiny, about 2 miles (3 kilometers) and 2.5 miles (4 kilometers) in
                                > diameter. They orbit within 131,000 miles (211,000 kilometers) of
                                > the planet's center.
                                >
                                > Tiny, tiny S/2004 is marked by a box in this Cassini image.
                                > Image courtesy NASA/JPL/Space Science Institute.
                                >
                                > The discoveries bring the total of Saturn's known moons to 33.
                                > Number 31 was discovered last year with a ground-based telescope."
                              • holderlin66
                                Jan wrote: Churches were sited not only upon holy, healing wells and caverns of ancient initiation but also deliberately built upon vortex sites of evil earth
                                Message 15 of 26 , Aug 21, 2004
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                                  Jan wrote:

                                  "Churches were sited not only upon holy, healing wells and caverns of
                                  ancient initiation but also deliberately built upon vortex sites of
                                  evil earth energies, often of a very baleful, raw kind and
                                  consciously transformed within the community of the church, often by
                                  means of ceremony and chanting, re-enchanting into raised and useful
                                  form what was seeping from darker regions of the earth. A form of
                                  search and transform - a Manichean journey into the darkest places
                                  secure in the magical power of Christ-light. This is no longer
                                  understood and it is the task of those who can to detect and act in
                                  an appropriate way upon such energies, as there are ever more
                                  sources. There is much more to say on this, perhaps on future
                                  occasions. Soloman, for instance, set four thousand to sing praises
                                  during the building of the Temple, that beacon for the incarnating
                                  human, that it might have a sound and re-sounding foundation.
                                  Because true praise, real praise knowingly in-toned is the surest
                                  means of uplifting and re creating fallen or generally suspect
                                  etheric energies. But it is sound science. It requires real
                                  knowledge."

                                  Bradford comments;

                                  Streams of vowels and consonants on the breath stream, warmed from
                                  the hearts of human beings, both from Gregorian chants and Tibetan
                                  sancturies and united with Eurythmy, have set the Planets and the
                                  Constellations, the Zodiac, back into the flow of the elemental
                                  community we live in.

                                  Before I go off on my Word and Speech tangent, you might want to
                                  really grasp some of the work that is understood from such a science
                                  of Tone, Word, Chant...before you discount it with your OH SO
                                  rational intellect.

                                  http://www.aniwilliams.com/geometry_music_healing.htm

                                  ""For 14 years he (Jenny) conducted experiments animating inert
                                  powders, pastes, and liquids into life-like, flowing forms, which
                                  mirrored patterns found throughout nature, art and architecture.
                                  What's more, all of these patterns were created using simple sine
                                  wave vibrations (pure tones) within the audible range. So what you
                                  see is a physical representation of vibration, or how sound
                                  manifests into form through the medium of various materials."

                                  The pioneering research of Fabion Mamon in the 1970's found that
                                  when they sounded a specific tuning fork tone onto a cancer cell,
                                  that cell would dissolve. Even allopathic medicine has adopted this
                                  same principle in new, non-invasive forms of surgery. Scientific
                                  American magazine reported one example of an effective method for
                                  removing kidney stones by identifying the frequency of the stone,
                                  and projecting the `reversed' frequency to dissolve it.

                                  This interrelationship of sound and matter is at the core of an
                                  exciting new wave of science, which is based on timeless principles
                                  well known to all ancient and indigenous cultures. Billy Yellow, a
                                  Navajo medicine man summed it all up with this wisdom: "Our task is
                                  to chant the world, chant the beauty. The world is a reflection of
                                  our chanting." How are we each using sound to affect our state of
                                  being, the health of the earth and our children? "

                                  Bradford adds;

                                  I should be brief because of the attention span deficit we all
                                  carry, such rich studies as we have recently uncovered tend to lull
                                  the reader to sleep, as if Anthroposophy was some sweet fairy tale.
                                  It isn't. At least on the issue of frogs and Atlantean etheric
                                  systems and Prince and Princesses and kissing frogs, awakening out
                                  of the slumber of Post Atlantean, pre Egohood to Prince and Princess
                                  participants with the Queen Sophia and her lover Christ, we
                                  apparently are still old Toadies. (TAO/TAOTL and TOADDD or humid
                                  Earth and pond croaking, singing even)

                                  Vowels and Consonants and music itself is so rich and Eurythmy such
                                  an incredible study that I shall spare you some of the details of
                                  it. Language and the larynx region is the center out of which the
                                  New Elemental, Poetic, Scientific and Cultural miracles from the
                                  side of humanity will arise. Elemental forces in fire, air, water
                                  and Earth are awaiting the stream of rejuvenation from out of the
                                  human heart. Traveling from Finland to Hawaii and understanding how
                                  either consonants or vowels predominate in specific language and how
                                  water and feeling in rhythm and chanting move the Languge all the
                                  way to the ancient Tibetan Science of chanting, well it is a study
                                  for those who really are thrilled by the Word. Even if it is the dry
                                  word of this page and the dead concepts full of heart that we are
                                  discussing. Lovers of the Word awake when they hear Spirit behind
                                  Language.

                                  The most incredible soul stirring example I can offer you, aside
                                  from the astonishing details where location, geogrpahy, soul and
                                  Word weave and rejuvenated depleted environmental and elemental life
                                  gasps as it nourishes itself from Warmed Fire toned, Living Words..
                                  is this example and it is rather stunning.

                                  http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/transcripts/2004/aug/040812.mccarthy.
                                  html

                                  "All Things Considered: August 12, 2004

                                  Palestinians Embrace Musical Allegory

                                  From NPR News, this is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.

                                  "A Palestinian musical is playing to packed houses in a West Bank
                                  theater in Ramallah. It's based on a story by the late Palestinian
                                  novelist Ghassan Kanafani titled "The Little Lantern." It's the
                                  story of a princess who knocks down a wall to bring sunlight into
                                  her kingdom. NPR's Julie McCarthy reports the musical is rousing
                                  audiences with his parallels to the present-day Palestinian
                                  situation.

                                  JULIE McCARTHY reporting:

                                  The opening night of (foreign language spoken), or "The Lanterns,"
                                  brought the house down.

                                  McCARTHY: The story about one girl's determination was itself a work
                                  that defied the odds. Palestinian composer and producer Suhail
                                  Khoury said the Israeli occupation had complicated auditions,
                                  training and rehearsals, and stretched production over two years.
                                  The German conductor confessed he persuaded only a fraction of his
                                  orchestra to travel to the West Bank for the show. The day before
                                  the play opened, the new Japanese-funded Cultural Center flooded,
                                  destroying the director's pencil-scrawled script.

                                  It was inspired by the late Palestinian writer Ghassan Kanafani. The
                                  author of novels, short stories and articles about the lives of
                                  Palestinians in exile, Kanafani wrote the story, original
                                  titled "The Little Lantern," for his niece. She died beside him in a
                                  car bombing in Lebanon in 1972. The musical version, renamed "The
                                  Lanterns," features a cast made up exclusively of children. Some 60
                                  of them in luminescent costumes sing and dance non-stop for just
                                  over an hour.

                                  McCARTHY: As the curtain rises, the wise king has died, leaving a
                                  will for his daughter that says for the kingdom to remain peaceful,
                                  she must bring sunlight into the castle. So the princess climbs a
                                  mountain to reach the sun to carry it back. When her scheme fails,
                                  she retreats to her room in distress. A note appears under the door
                                  one day. `How will you find the sun,' it asks, `if you lock yourself
                                  away?'

                                  Later, an old man bearing a lantern appears at the castle gate,
                                  declaring he has the answer. But the guards turn him away. The
                                  princess learns of the old man and sets out to find him by ordering
                                  everyone who carries a lantern to come to the castle. So many people
                                  converge on the castle. To make room, they knock down the walls. And
                                  suddenly the sunlight fills the kingdom."

                                  Bradford concludes;

                                  The sunlight and the man with the lantern... and who remembers in
                                  their soul the fairy tale of "The Green Snake and Beautiful Lily"?
                                  Now it is not sentimentality that induces me to show how wonderful
                                  this artistic event was for bombed out Palastine, just read the
                                  article. But rather that it is the intellectual soul negation of the
                                  power of Word, Art, music even down to its healing reality in the
                                  etheric body as well, with what Jan has brought up, the healing of
                                  regions of enchanted and etheric earth have been lost, even if we
                                  have before us the new science of the Word. Most Anthro's retreat
                                  from investigating what this new force of the word can become.

                                  Most Anthros or students of Spiritual Science cannot make the
                                  connection between the flowy, wafty light headed dancers who claim
                                  to be Eurythmists and the solid foundation out of which Sound and
                                  the Word has been renewed to its highest level, using the Christ
                                  Event as the foundation of the New Word. Most people haven't had the
                                  opportunity or the training to see the Science of the Word that
                                  Eurythmy stuidies..Therefore Eurythmy is somewhat discounted as a
                                  stirring art form. It should not be discounted and I have testimony
                                  from elemental beings who are starving for such Etheric renewal as
                                  proof.
                                • joksu57
                                  Hello all! I don t know, if this following incident has any connections to Asuras, but I came to my mind after reading Mark s post. A friend told me some time
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Aug 24, 2004
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                                    Hello all!

                                    I don't know, if this following incident has any connections to
                                    Asuras, but I came to my mind after reading Mark's post. A friend
                                    told me some time ago about his experiencies, when he was "under
                                    attack" by some (perhaps ahrimanic, he didn't specify) beings. I
                                    don't want to be too spesific about the circumstances, so I just tell
                                    some "main points".

                                    According to my friend these "invading beings" tried to get inside
                                    him and his consiousness and when some of them succeeded, they could
                                    be felt also as some sort of vibrations in his etheric vehicle. He
                                    said that they could be felt almost as "someone is crawling under the
                                    skin", quite an unpleasant experience. This "attack" has been going
                                    on many hours and my friend was resisting it with strong
                                    consentration. He was not afraid, but getting tired and his "tactics"
                                    was not particularly succesful.

                                    Then he remembered the advices of Christ and stopped resisting these
                                    beings. Instead he started blessing them, praying for them, "inviting
                                    them" in the spirit of "Love thy enemy"; trying to teach to them the
                                    ethics of Christ. The effect was astonishing. There was only some
                                    spesific "route" along which these entities could enter, and it was
                                    the same thing conserning the exit. Suddenly these beings were so
                                    eager to leave that there was some sort of "jam", when they could not
                                    leave as soon as they wished (this amused my friend). Also one of
                                    these "invaders" experienced some sort of conversion and adviced the
                                    others to "leave my friend alone".

                                    I think that this was a display of some sort of manichean magic, but
                                    if one is afraid, it may be difficult to apply it effectively.

                                    Warm Regards
                                    Joksu
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