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Re: "Nature so Motherly to Me"

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  • derek19282000
    ... SectionID=37&ItemID=5085 ... States ... ETC. ETC.... WHAT HAS ALL THIS TO DO WITH ANTHROPOSOPHY?
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 4, 2004
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      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
      <holderlin66@h...> wrote:
      > http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?
      SectionID=37&ItemID=5085
      >
      > When, in October 1957, the USSR launched the first man-made earth
      > satellite, the basketball-sized Sputnik, it caught the United
      States
      > off guard and sent the government into fits.
      ETC. ETC....

      WHAT HAS ALL THIS TO DO WITH ANTHROPOSOPHY?
    • Maurice McCarthy
      Mike Yes, having spawned all the sciences, Philosophy itself shows the door back to the spiritual worlds thereby reaching its ultimate purpose. When perception
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 5, 2004
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        Mike

        Yes, having spawned all the sciences, Philosophy itself shows the door
        back to the spiritual worlds thereby reaching its ultimate purpose. When
        perception begins to turn relational (in the same way that thoughts
        connect) then the less do we think abstractly but literally see the
        truth.

        Maurice



        On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 08:32:37PM -0500 or thereabouts, Mike Helsher wrote:
        > Hi Maurice, you wrote:
        > <snip> McGinn finds this relevant to what he calls Metaphilosophy, the
        > > philosophy beyond philosophy or philosophy of philosophy. I ask what is
        > > the love of knowledge for the love of knowledge? The pure willingness to
        > > understand - Christ as Anthropo-sophia, human wisdom. He say
        > > metaphilosophy is the most neglected and difficult aspect in all
        > > philosophy.
        > >
        > > Maurice.
        >
        > Mike:
        > I don't know anything about McGinn, but the idea you are expressing is very
        > interesting to me. I spent a rather intense week with Dennis Kloeck this
        > past summer; he built up to a statement: "Steiner's Philosophy of Freedom
        > marks the beginning of the *END* of philosophy. He also equated this with
        > the problem of percieving the " *I* of the Other." This I think relates to
        > your statement "The pure willingness to understand - Christ as
        > Anthropo-sophia, human wisdom."
        >
        > I hope not to neglect this idea.
        >
        > Truth and Love
        >
        > Mike Helsher
        >
      • holderlin66
        derek19282000 WHAT HAS ALL THIS TO DO WITH ANTHROPOSOPHY? Derek, don t make me answer you. For what kind of lame blame lunk would place this as a question?
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 7, 2004
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          "derek19282000"

          WHAT HAS ALL THIS TO DO WITH ANTHROPOSOPHY?

          Derek, don't make me answer you. For what kind of lame blame lunk
          would place this as a question? Have you been hiding in some
          underground bunker or is there some vacancy sign on your beard that
          I failed to read?

          With the enormous contributions Maurice and Danny and others have
          made to this list, you better have good reason for your dumbfounded
          response. Because anyone here can connect dots and have been trained
          in thinking enough to see clearly and understand the range of
          misapplications of human spirit that are growing to monster again,
          around us.

          We could pick anyone of the items and I have a back log that are
          even deadlier and I know Jan and Joksu have a pack full as well and
          they all have everything to do with Anthroposophy. So if your middle
          name is Rip Van Wrinkle...please.. snore first if you are about to
          wake up and if you still can't understand why your eyes happen to be
          open, go back into some of the history of this list and rip open
          insights we have covered already.

          Otherwise, don't even hint at the idea that you wonder if this has
          anything to do with Anthroposophy, because I am not in a
          particularly generous mood, to hold your hand, step by step and one
          thing at a time. But if you have a single specific issue, of those
          listed that you might want to explore.. Ask specifically because the
          very nature of the term... Nature so Motherly to me, came from the
          Soul Calendar. Which in every detail is opposite to the Ahrimanic
          forces offered and the money offered to dig humanity deeper into the
          negative.. the -minus-Michael.

          But for the family of heavy slumbering Wrinkles, in case you haven't
          noticed, Ahriman is in the house and we like to keep an eye on him.
          But I fear this is all part of some burp that you had as you
          wandered into a room full of quiet readers and said, (besides
          belching loudly)

          "Is anyone going to turn off that damned alarm or what?" You turn
          it off if you think your so wide awake and you think you know how.
          The rest of us haven't slept a wink Rip but at least we are aware of
          how it fits with Anthroposophy.

          Bradford
        • derek19282000
          ... I DON T THINK THERE IS ANY NEED TO BE RUDE.
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 8, 2004
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            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
            <holderlin66@h...> wrote:
            > "derek19282000"
            >
            > WHAT HAS ALL THIS TO DO WITH ANTHROPOSOPHY?
            >
            > Derek, don't make me answer you. For what kind of lame blame lunk
            > would place this as a question?

            I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY NEED TO BE RUDE.
          • Adrian Hansen
            Dear Derek, You are a new member I asume and not very advanced in Anthroposophy ,like my self you will find out the hard way, or you will walk away from it. I
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 8, 2004
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              Dear Derek,
              You are a new member I asume and not very advanced in
              Anthroposophy ,like my self you will find out the hard
              way, or you will walk away from it. I am sorry that
              Bradford treated you as he did,but this is the only
              way to wake up and although you can't see it yet, you
              will thank him for his words later on. Please stick
              with us and don't be put of, Love Adrian





              --- holderlin66 <holderlin66@...> wrote:
              ---------------------------------
              "derek19282000"

              WHAT HAS ALL THIS TO DO WITH ANTHROPOSOPHY?

              Derek, don't make me answer you. For what kind of lame
              blame lunk
              would place this as a question? Have you been hiding
              in some
              underground bunker or is there some vacancy sign on
              your beard that
              I failed to read?

              With the enormous contributions Maurice and Danny and
              others have
              made to this list, you better have good reason for
              your dumbfounded
              response. Because anyone here can connect dots and
              have been trained
              in thinking enough to see clearly and understand the
              range of
              misapplications of human spirit that are growing to
              monster again,
              around us.

              We could pick anyone of the items and I have a back
              log that are
              even deadlier and I know Jan and Joksu have a pack
              full as well and
              they all have everything to do with Anthroposophy. So
              if your middle
              name is Rip Van Wrinkle...please.. snore first if you
              are about to
              wake up and if you still can't understand why your
              eyes happen to be
              open, go back into some of the history of this list
              and rip open
              insights we have covered already.

              Otherwise, don't even hint at the idea that you wonder
              if this has
              anything to do with Anthroposophy, because I am not in
              a
              particularly generous mood, to hold your hand, step by
              step and one
              thing at a time. But if you have a single specific
              issue, of those
              listed that you might want to explore.. Ask
              specifically because the
              very nature of the term... Nature so Motherly to me,
              came from the
              Soul Calendar. Which in every detail is opposite to
              the Ahrimanic
              forces offered and the money offered to dig humanity
              deeper into the
              negative.. the -minus-Michael.

              But for the family of heavy slumbering Wrinkles, in
              case you haven't
              noticed, Ahriman is in the house and we like to keep
              an eye on him.
              But I fear this is all part of some burp that you had
              as you
              wandered into a room full of quiet readers and said,
              (besides
              belching loudly)

              "Is anyone going to turn off that damned alarm or
              what?" You turn
              it off if you think your so wide awake and you think
              you know how.
              The rest of us haven't slept a wink Rip but at least
              we are aware of
              how it fits with Anthroposophy.

              Bradford



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            • Hogie McM
              derek: on the surface, it doesn t appear to have anything to do with Anthroposophy. But Anthroposophy is always concerned with researching into the inner
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 8, 2004
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                derek:
                on the surface, it doesn't appear to have anything to do with Anthroposophy.
                 
                But Anthroposophy is always concerned with researching into the inner depths, to hopefully
                someday make that which today is unseen, into a world view where all is seen consciously.
                As Dr. Steiner went to pains to point out many times, there are several paths one may
                take leading to the top of the mountain.  Some are dangerous, others are convoluted, and lead
                to dead ends.....
                 
                in a nutshell, Anthroposophy does not come in "spoon-fed" answers, with fixation.
                Whatever is uncovered, is always itself in full dynamic.
                 
                This is a very powerful group of concerned and informed Anthroposophists whom you have found...
                it is worth getting to know them...dif a little, take the time to make the connections...
                it is always the most fulfilling when you make them yoursel, with a little help from your friends.
                 
                Hogie
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 2:25 PM
                Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: "Nature so Motherly to Me"

                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                <holderlin66@h...> wrote:
                > "derek19282000" 
                >
                >  WHAT HAS ALL THIS TO DO WITH ANTHROPOSOPHY?
                >
                > Derek, don't make me answer you. For what kind of lame blame lunk
                > would place this as a question?

                I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY NEED TO BE RUDE.





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              • holderlin66
                ... Alright Derek, I was rude, I admit it. Now do you think you can perhaps imagine how much we hate to have to watch Nature getting ripped off and tortured
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 8, 2004
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                  "derek19282000" <derek19282000@y...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY NEED TO BE RUDE.

                  Alright Derek, I was rude, I admit it. Now do you think you can
                  perhaps imagine how much we hate to have to watch Nature getting
                  ripped off and tortured under Baconian Idols... No, No, I have a
                  better idea. Look here Derek.

                  "Just when the global diatribe over food and genetically modified
                  crops (GM) is heating up in tone and breadth, the corporations that
                  create them are staging a showcase for a fresh batch of transgenics.

                  These new GM crops, known as biopharmaceuticals, or biopharms for
                  short, produce industrial and pharmaceutical chemicals within their
                  tissues. The plants, including soy, rice, corn and tobacco, are
                  genetically altered to produce substances such as growth hormones,
                  curdling agents (coagulants), vaccines for humans as well as farm
                  animals, human antibodies, industrial enzymes, contraceptives and
                  even pregnancy deterrents.

                  Scientists and corporations alike embrace biopharmaceuticals with
                  glee. "Imagine being able to harvest enough globulin (a compound
                  that fights arthritis) for the whole world in all of fifty acres?",
                  writes Dr. William O. Robertson for the Seattle Post
                  Intelligencer. "Imagine being able to find the protein healthy
                  people use to prevent arthritis or breast cancer and being able to
                  produce it in large quantities in rice and tobacco."

                  ProdiGene, a leader in the field, calculates that by the end of this
                  decade, 10% of the corn produced in the US will be
                  biopharmaceutical. The volume of biopharmaceutical drugs and
                  chemicals could reach the 200 billion dollar figure, according to
                  Dow AgroSciences scientist Guy Cardinau. "

                  http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=7&ItemID=5102

                  ******************************************************

                  So Derek, suppose you tell me if you understand what distortion of
                  the Elemental community and enslavement of nature means? Elaborate
                  everyone here is game and open, but certainly, not one I met here
                  has ever been stupid, except for me.
                • holderlin66
                  Bradford the Rude: To modify the engine of Nature, you can either use the sun, moon, stars and soil in a biodynamic manner or you can get down into the guts of
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 8, 2004
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                    Bradford the Rude:

                    To modify the engine of Nature, you can either use the sun, moon,
                    stars and soil in a biodynamic manner or you can get down into the
                    guts of nature with Ahrimanic instinct, and begin perfecting
                    biological distortions that will change the entire elemental world;
                    super enhance virus weapons; Over inject Silver, so that vegetables
                    so soak up lunar forces that they are like breast implants. In fact
                    flavor fails, but size and an enhancement of silver certainly
                    focuses the moons enlargment, size without taste current concepts.
                    There is a moral horror show happening. Someone is under the hood of
                    Mother Nature tooling with her, revving the engine, meddling with
                    the cow, the goat, the sheep, seeking disconnected Karma and Star
                    laws that are made by men only on the Earth.

                    Now these new breeds of enlisted and distorted elementals are GM
                    channeled into our diets and our environment. Oh we are gonna get
                    interesting results alright. But we haven't had the decency to
                    discuss the ethics involved with the Rape of Mother Nature and
                    turning her into a street hooker, Whore of Babylon for corporate fun
                    and demonic profit have we. Issues roll off discussion tables like
                    hardened rabbit turds.

                    Severing Nature from the Stars and booting up and modifying
                    elemental kingdoms, without wisdom, is serious child abuse. It is
                    Priest like rape, it's all that we are refusing to deal with as we
                    rush to human modification, karmic disruption and genetic cloning
                    divorced from Star wisdom. Here fragments of the lower I Am will
                    roll of the assembly line, and our Star Born model of self, will be
                    a fragment, of our own distorted karmic being. But the military will
                    remain the king of Earth hostage taking, but Anthros, fought, proved
                    and revealed, but they weren't listened to because the teenagers
                    have a strange "Wired Magazine" glint in their eyes. This trip
                    comes, batteries not included and we have got to see what is coming.

                    "While
                    the military is well-versed in employing all sorts of creatures to do
                    its bidding, from Army guard dogs to Navy dolphins used for locating
                    sea mines, DARPA is keen on branching out from class Mammalia. One
                    way is through its "Bio-Revolution" program which seeks to "harness
                    the insights and power of biology to make U.S. warfighters and their
                    equipment... more effective."

                    Little Shop of Horrors

                    In July 2003, DARPA held a workshop to "help researchers in various
                    disciplines self-assemble into teams capable of developing plant
                    inspired actuation systems that will ultimately have application in
                    military adaptive or morphing structures." What's on the horizon
                    then? Giant Venus Fly-trap-inspired fighting vehicles? A brigade of
                    Swamp-Thing warriors?

                    (Octo)Pie in the sky camouflage

                    According to the agency's 2003 strategic plan, "DARPA-supported
                    researchers are studying how geckos climb walls and how an octopus
                    hides to find new approaches to locomotion and highly adaptive
                    camouflage. The idea is to let nature be a guide toward better
                    engineering." Imagine the ink-squirting, suction-cup-covered frogman
                    of the future!

                    Remote-Control Robo-Rats

                    In 2002, DARPA researchers demonstrated that they could remotely
                    control the movements of a rat with electrodes implanted into its
                    brain using a laptop computer. In 2003 and 2004, DARPA's "Robolife"
                    program researchers will turn their attention to the "performance of
                    rats, birds and insects in performing missions of interest to DoD,
                    such as exploration of caves or covert deposition of sensors."
                    Militarizing the animal world, however, carries its own risks. Take
                    World War II's Project X-Ray in which bats with incendiary explosives
                    strapped to their bodies turned on their military masters and set
                    fire to an U.S. Army airfield. Just imagine what an army of Army rats
                    might do! Anybody remember Willard?

                    "super soldier serum."

                    Just Say "No" to No Doze, but "Yes" to Endless Combat

                    The U.S. military has long plied its fighting men with uppers. In
                    Vietnam, medics sated soldiers' need for speed by doling out
                    government-issue amphetamines. In 2002, U.S. pilots under the
                    influence of Air Force "go-pills" (which Air Force spokeswoman Lt.
                    Jennifer Ferrau calls a "fatigue management tool") killed four
                    Canadian soldiers and injured eight others when they dropped a laser-
                    guided bomb on a Canadian military training exercise in Afghanistan.
                    Today, DARPA's Continuous Assisted Performance (CAP) program is aimed
                    at creating a 24-7 trooper by "investigating ways to prevent fatigue
                    and enable soldiers to stay awake, alert, and effective for up to
                    seven days straight without suffering any deleterious mental or
                    physical effects and without using any of the current generation of
                    stimulants."

                    This is your brain on DARPA... any questions?

                    DARPA researchers are also at work on the "Brain Machine Interface"
                    ("neuromics") project, designed as a mind/machine interface, allowing
                    mechanical devices to be controlled via thought-power. Thus far,
                    researchers have taught a monkey to move a computer mouse and a
                    telerobotic arm simply by thinking about it. With arrays of up to 96
                    electrodes implanted in their brains, the animals are able to reach
                    for food with a robotic arm. Researchers even transmitted the signals
                    over the internet, allowing remote control of an robotic arm 600
                    miles away."
                  • derek19282000
                    In Rudolf Steiner s How To Know Higher Worlds ( translated by Christopher Bamford,1994) , Chapter 5: Requirements For Esoteric Training , Steiner
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 8, 2004
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                      In Rudolf Steiner's "How To Know Higher Worlds" ( translated by
                      Christopher Bamford,1994) , Chapter 5: "Requirements For Esoteric
                      Training", Steiner enumerates seven requirements. The second
                      requirement ( p99) is that "we feel ourselves involved in the whole
                      of life," he goes on to say it is then but a small step to the
                      insight that, as a member or organ of humanity as a whole, I am
                      jointly responsible with all human beings, for everything that
                      happens. THIS INSIGHT SHOULD NOT ,OF COURSE, BE IMMEDIATELY
                      TRANSLATED INTO POLITICAL AGITATION IN THE WORLD. It should be
                      calmly cultivated within the soul. In this way it will gradually
                      come to expression in my outer actions. Indeed in such matters, we
                      can begin only by reforming ourselves. To make general demands for
                      social and political reform on the basis of such insights is
                      fruitless. It is easy to say how other people should be, but
                      students of esoteric knowledge must work in the depths and not on
                      the surface. It would therefore be quite wrong to connect the
                      demands of esoteric schooling with any demands for reform or even
                      political change. The education of the spirit has nothing to do with
                      such things. Political activists generally know what to ask of other
                      people, but they hardly ever talk about asking anything of
                      themselves."
                      I interpreted your posting in this light. I may be wrong and am
                      prepared to withstand polite correction in the spirit of brotherly
                      love. I may have misinterpreted Steiner-or indeed, Steiner may be
                      wrong! But I do not deserve "character assassination!

                      The irony is that I agree with you about GM! And I am a member
                      of "Scientists for Global REsponsibilitty" and "the Soil
                      Association" {These are British organisations and may not be well
                      known on this site, but no doubt there are American equivalents).But
                      I visit an Anthroposical Group for instruction in spiritual matters
                      and have my own sources for political debate.
                    • Adrian Hansen
                      Go Derek! ... In Rudolf Steiner s How To Know Higher Worlds ( translated by Christopher Bamford,1994) , Chapter 5: Requirements For Esoteric Training ,
                      Message 10 of 13 , Mar 11, 2004
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                        Go Derek!


                        --- derek19282000 <derek19282000@...> wrote:
                        ---------------------------------
                        In Rudolf Steiner's "How To Know Higher Worlds" (
                        translated by
                        Christopher Bamford,1994) , Chapter 5: "Requirements
                        For Esoteric
                        Training", Steiner enumerates seven requirements. The
                        second
                        requirement ( p99) is that "we feel ourselves involved
                        in the whole
                        of life," he goes on to say it is then but a small
                        step to the
                        insight that, as a member or organ of humanity as a
                        whole, I am
                        jointly responsible with all human beings, for
                        everything that
                        happens. THIS INSIGHT SHOULD NOT ,OF COURSE, BE
                        IMMEDIATELY
                        TRANSLATED INTO POLITICAL AGITATION IN THE WORLD. It
                        should be
                        calmly cultivated within the soul. In this way it will
                        gradually
                        come to expression in my outer actions. Indeed in such
                        matters, we
                        can begin only by reforming ourselves. To make general
                        demands for
                        social and political reform on the basis of such
                        insights is
                        fruitless. It is easy to say how other people should
                        be, but
                        students of esoteric knowledge must work in the depths
                        and not on
                        the surface. It would therefore be quite wrong to
                        connect the
                        demands of esoteric schooling with any demands for
                        reform or even
                        political change. The education of the spirit has
                        nothing to do with
                        such things. Political activists generally know what
                        to ask of other
                        people, but they hardly ever talk about asking
                        anything of
                        themselves."
                        I interpreted your posting in this light. I may be
                        wrong and am
                        prepared to withstand polite correction in the spirit
                        of brotherly
                        love. I may have misinterpreted Steiner-or indeed,
                        Steiner may be
                        wrong! But I do not deserve "character assassination!

                        The irony is that I agree with you about GM! And I am
                        a member
                        of "Scientists for Global REsponsibilitty" and "the
                        Soil
                        Association" {These are British organisations and may
                        not be well
                        known on this site, but no doubt there are American
                        equivalents).But
                        I visit an Anthroposical Group for instruction in
                        spiritual matters
                        and have my own sources for political debate.





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                      • Hogie McM
                        Derek: Im sure you are aware that Dr. Steiner, in addition to his inner work and initial requirements for building up character, entered social life wholly and
                        Message 11 of 13 , Mar 11, 2004
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                          Derek:
                          Im sure you are aware that Dr. Steiner, in addition to his inner work and
                          initial requirements for building up character, entered social life wholly and directly, and spent much energy,
                          with Walter Johannes Stein as ultimate courier, in trying to inculcate his model
                          of the 3-fold social order, politically, directly into real-time social-political change during his lifetime,
                          direct to personalities in the government that could have potentially made a change.
                           
                          Im not sure I'd call it Political Agitation, as Anthroposophy is not meant to be agitated
                          to the world, but economical and political change directly into the physical world,
                          definitely a yes.
                           
                          Hogie
                           
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:01 PM
                          Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: "Nature so Motherly to Me"

                          In Rudolf Steiner's  "How To Know Higher Worlds"  ( translated by
                          Christopher Bamford,1994) , Chapter 5:  "Requirements For Esoteric
                          Training", Steiner enumerates seven requirements. The second
                          requirement ( p99) is that "we feel ourselves involved in the whole
                          of life,"  he goes on to say it is then but a small step to the
                          insight that, as a member or organ of humanity as a whole, I am
                          jointly responsible with all human beings, for everything that
                          happens. THIS INSIGHT SHOULD NOT ,OF COURSE, BE IMMEDIATELY
                          TRANSLATED INTO POLITICAL AGITATION IN THE WORLD. It should be
                          calmly cultivated within the soul. In this way it will gradually
                          come to expression in my outer actions. Indeed in such matters, we
                          can begin only by reforming ourselves. To make general demands for
                          social and political reform on the basis of such insights is
                          fruitless. It is easy to say how other people should be, but
                          students of esoteric knowledge must work in the depths and not on
                          the surface. It would therefore be quite wrong to connect the
                          demands of esoteric schooling with any demands for reform or even
                          political change. The education of the spirit has nothing to do with
                          such things. Political activists generally know what to ask of other
                          people, but they hardly ever talk about asking anything of
                          themselves."
                          I interpreted your posting in this light. I may be wrong and am
                          prepared to withstand polite correction in the spirit of brotherly
                          love. I may have misinterpreted Steiner-or indeed, Steiner may be
                          wrong! But I do not deserve "character assassination!

                          The irony is that I agree with you about GM! And I am a member
                          of "Scientists for Global REsponsibilitty" and "the Soil
                          Association" {These are British organisations and may not be well
                          known on this site, but no doubt there are American equivalents).But
                          I visit an Anthroposical Group for instruction in spiritual matters
                          and have my own sources for political debate.





                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy
                          Unsubscribe:
                          anthroposophy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com 
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