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The Lion is About to Roar

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  • golden3000997@cs.com
    Mandated Waldorf education Diana Winters Feb 10, 2004 09:50 PST Here is a fascinating dialogue from Anthroposophy_Tomorrow. Christine speaks against
    Message 1 of 1 , Feb 10, 2004
      "Mandated" Waldorf education Diana Winters
      Feb 10, 2004 09:50 PST
      Here is a fascinating dialogue from Anthroposophy_Tomorrow. Christine speaks
      against Waldorf in public schools, as she has done before, seeming to "get"
      where these problems lie:

      "Whether the methods and techniques of a private school system are 'good'
      universally, the very existence of a 'religious' or 'spiritual' background
      is
      enough to justify keeping them out of the public school classroom."

      But then she loses control for a moment and suggests that . . . (YOU HAVEN'T
      SEEN LOSING CONTROL, YET, B***)

      "Perhaps some day far in the future, Waldorf Education will be so
      universally desirable within society at large, that it will be mandated for
      all
      schools."

      Whoa . . .

      In this Christine actually echoes Eugene Schwartz, who also opposed
      Waldorf's move into the public system in the US, though mainly, if I
      understand him correctly, on the grounds that society isn't ready for
      Waldorf yet. Leaving open at least the hope that some day it will be,
      presumably. (HER INTERPRETATION)


      But Christine is called on her slip of the tongue by new member Linda (who
      has previously enjoyed sneering at critics on the WC list and thinks critics
      of Waldorf education are "nutty"; anyway even stalwart Waldorf supporter
      Linda has the good sense to be a wee bit discomfited by "mandated" Waldorf
      education):

      "Could you elaborate on this idea? I understand your point that public
      education today rejects the all religious or spiritual elements, and that
      one day this may relax. But then you seem to leap to suppositions about
      which 'spiritual elements' would win out and
      ultimately become mandatory in public education.

      Surely, the idea that any one particular view could or would become
      'mandatory' is reason enough to dissuade society from 'moving in a more
      spiritualized direction' in public education. I'm not sure I understand why
      it needs follow, why making a particular
      view 'mandatory' would be the inevitable outcome. And speaking for myself, I
      wouldn't be at all reassured about any 'spiritual' mandates in education
      just because they were Waldorf-brand spiritualisms."


      (Go, Linda. Thanks for summing up the arguments for separation of church and
      state, particularly in schools. Exactly because to some people it is a
      breathtakingly quick leap from
      Maybe-society-will-get-more-spiritual-someday, to
      And-then-my-spiritual-beliefs-will-be-mandatory-for-everyone.) (HER
      INTERPRETATION - NOT MY STATEMENTS)

      Christine attempts to soften her statement:

      "I meant in a few more centuries, when (hopefully) the entire view of the
      human being will have matured. I certainly don't mean the infantile,
      egotistical views of 'spirituality' that many people entertain today."

      Oh! Don't worry, this is centuries away! (But we could always get a head
      start, and open a few charters.) (HER INTERPRETATION - NOT MY STATEMENTS)

      Note the certainty that someday, everyone will accept a particular version
      of spirituality. The literally hundreds of religions and spiritual beliefs
      and practices, the millions on millions of fervent believers worldwide
      today, are "infantile." Someday we'll all be anthroposophists? (HER
      INTERPRETATION - NOT MY STATEMENTS)

      Linda (understandably not quite reassured but trying to be a good sport):

      "I'm a little troubled at the idea that in the future our 'spirituality' may
      mature to the point where society would mandate Waldorf education in public
      schools. Mandating any
      particular public education system because it is 'perceived' to have the
      Best Spirituality component seems a major step backwards to me."

      Now Christine redefines the word "mandate," perhaps realizing it does carry
      some unpleasant connotations:

      "Sorry again - to clarify - not mandated by Government- but by the totality
      of the social environment."

      Oh much better. (sarcasm) The "totality" of the social environment. Whew.
      You really don't understand why some people are scared of totalistic
      spiritual visions imposed on an entire society? We *aren't* all
      anthroposophists, Christine. Yes, you would have to make a "total social
      environment" from anthroposophy before some of us "get it." Put it in the
      drinking water, or in the air we breathe, perhaps. (HER INTERPRETATION - NOT
      MY STATEMENTS)

      "Please try to understand I am fantasizing a very different human community
      than what we live with today."

      Exactly, Christine - you are fantasizing about a world where everyone agrees
      with you, and if a few don't, "mandates" will keep them in line. (HER
      INTERPRETATION - NOT MY STATEMENTS)

      "You are trying to fit it into today's world and social/ political reality.
      That is not what I was trying to say. It's like French schools teach in
      French because the people in their society speak French. The government
      doesn't have to 'mandate' it by law. Schools in a more 'spiritual' society
      will teach in a more 'spiritual' way because that will be the 'language' of
      the people in that society."

      Christine, if Waldorf is some day perceived as "universally desirable," then
      where would "mandating" it need to come into the picture? Interesting slip.
      (HER INTERPRETATION - NOT MY STATEMENTS)

      (Linda also noted that the language example was a poor one, in fact
      governments do sometimes try to officially regulate language use; that has
      happened in the US, where in some cities it became illegal for government
      workers to speak Spanish to each other while on the job, and in fact the
      French, also, are pretty keen on "official" use of French.) (PRETTY KEEN AND
      MANDATING BY GOVERNMENT ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS)

      (Linda ends up deciding to get comfy with all this, after all she's new on
      the list, and any problems from mandated spiritual education are centuries
      in the future.) (HER INTERPRETATION - NOT LINDA'S STATEMENTS)

      Look at what Christine originally said one more time: She dreams (HER
      INTERPRETATION - NOT MY STATEMENTS) of a day
      Waldorf is "mandated" in "all schools."
      Diana

      DO YOU ****** BELIEVE THIS???? THIS WOMAN IS PUBLISHING WHOLE DIALOGUES OF
      MINE ON ANOTHER WEBSITE AND DOING HER OWN ***** INTERPRETATIONS OF MY ATTITUDES,
      WHAT I MEAN, WHAT I AM "DREAMING ABOUT" WHAT I AM "FANTASIZING" ABOUT - AND I
      HAD NO IDEA SHE WAS DOING THIS!!

      DOES ANYONE KNOW A GOOD LAWYER, BECAUSE THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF THEM IN MIAMI
      AND I AM GOING TO GET ONE NOW!

      NO ONE HAS A RIGHT TO DO WHAT THIS B****** IS DOING AND IT IS GOING TO STOP.
      YOU CAN QUOTE ME ON THAT DIANA.

      CHRISTINE
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