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  • Maurice McCarthy
    Attached below is a post to KJF from Peter Mutnick. He is a genius level quantum physicist who studied under Henry Stapp. Reputedly his IQ is well in excess of
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 22, 2003
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      Attached below is a post to KJF from Peter Mutnick. He is a genius level
      quantum physicist who studied under Henry Stapp. Reputedly his IQ is well in
      excess of 200. He gave up physics to study Buddhism and, by his own account,
      communed dirrectly with Christ for 3 years. Whereas I have many reservations
      about him the below seems to show him approaching what I, and I think we,
      consider to be the great crisis of our age.

      Maurice.




      KARL JASPERS FORUM
      TA60 (Grandpierre)

      Commentary 15 (to C13)


      ( FUNDAMENTALISM )
      by Peter Mutnick
      14 December 2003, posted 21 December 2003


      <1>
      [Quoted from C13, Muller]
      <5> Some people (not me) say they can
      completely void their mind of contents, so that
      for them the "fundamental experience" may
      "exist". But that, I would say, is not the main
      question. It is that no mind-and-nature
      structures would be there without the subject's
      activity, whether human or animal.

      <2>
      [Peter Mutnick]
      This "subject" is then fundamental, is it not, in
      your way of thinking? What is the nature of
      this subject, from which your 0-D originates?
      Furthermore, how can you justify that it is
      fundamental, i.e., more fundamental than the
      structures that arise from its activity?
      According to Sartre, we exist only through our
      creations, or even the "words" that we have
      spoken and written. A similar doctrine exists in
      Christianity pertaining to the "Logos." In
      Platonism, it is the "Eidos," instead, but this is
      said to exist *independently* of human minds
      or subjects and transcendentally to them.
      Heisenberg wrote a letter to Stapp emphasizing
      just this fact.

      <2>
      Interestingly, you say that the unstructured
      aspect of experience must have a place within
      any structure aiming to embrace the whole of
      experience. This is of course somewhat of a
      contradiction, and it was the subject of a
      controversy between the physicists Laurikainen
      (a disciple of Wolfgang Pauli) and David Bohm.
      Laurikainen, following Pauli, wanted to allow for
      the irrational, while Bohm considered it
      antithetical to order, which Bohm presumed to
      pervade all of that which genuinely exists, if we
      only knew but how.

      <3>
      If one asks what kind of experience is
      fundamentally unstructured or apostitional
      (posits nothing) and what kind is fundamentally
      structured or positional (posits something), I
      believe one must conclude that neither can be
      identified with your fundamental "subject,"
      which is the origin of your 0-D. That type of
      experience is the "kingdom come" of
      Christianity, like the politicians or celebrities
      who have become full-time actors and have lost
      their private lives. From the standpoint of the
      psychologists, with the exception of Jung, the
      inner life, or private life, is a kind of delusion
      (Einstein also believed this). The etymology of
      the word "idiot" has to do with one in a private
      station of life. Orwell's writings are about the
      loss of privacy and the absurdity arising from
      this fundamental premise of the "social" life.
      Evolutionary theory may have given some
      justification to the existence of these
      fundamental "subjects," but such a justification
      is in fact a form of mysticism. Von Neumann
      and others, including Bohr, did not subscribe
      unquestioningly to Darwinism.

      <4>
      You seem to have a different conception of the
      role of mysticism than I do. To me it is not
      unstructured at all, but the positing of a real
      objective world independent of your
      fundamental "subject." The reason it is
      mysticism (as opposed to naive realism) is that
      such a world of thing-in-itself must ultimately
      be thing-in-its-idea and hence a form of
      primary mentalism. The world of things is
      precipitated from the world of ideas - that is at
      the root of all Western philosophy, as
      Whitehead averred. It is this combined world
      of ideas and things, which is actually many
      worlds according to the Neoplatonists, that
      dwarfs your fundamental "subject" for all who
      have the clairvoyance to "see" the inner worlds.

      <5>
      So, your lack of definition of your "subject"
      causes you to presume that mysticism
      transcends in the direction of your "subject,"
      rather than in the opposite direction, away from
      your "subject," or transcending your "subject,"
      as I contend to be the case. Does this creation
      of many centers of being constitute a
      fragmented personality? Perhaps so, but it is a
      real problem all human beings attempting to be
      authentic must grapple with. We very likely are
      of disparate composition, part animal and part
      divine. Which subject is the true subject? Or,
      will the real subject please stand up? (With
      reference to an American TV show called "Truth
      or Consequences.")

      <6>
      [Quote from Muller :]
      <6> What really exists is a decision (automatic
      or deliberate) of the subjects, individually
      and/or collectively; it results from investment of
      trust in created intra-experiential structures.
      This may but does not have to pre-suppose a
      mind-independent existence (MIR), which can
      never be proven in ways which convince
      everybody, but may be perceived to have
      auxiliary strength. How do you see your Saint-
      Peter connection, is he inside of you or outside
      ? How does fundamentalism (defined as belief
      in absolute validity of posited structures) work ?
      Some Islamic clergy have strong opinions on
      that.

      <7>
      [Peter Mutnick]
      I recently had a very unpleasant experience in
      the court system, in which I came to find that
      the judges were interpreting everything without
      reference to the MIR structure which is the
      body of statutory and decisional law. They are
      in fact charged with implementing statutes and
      Supreme Court decisions, but instead they
      generate a body of personal opinions, shared
      by their fellow judges and complict attorneys,
      that have no reference whatever to the rule of
      law. I consider their modus operandi to be
      oppression in the first degree, non-different
      from the rule of nobility prior to the magna
      charta. I have concluded that democracy in
      America is a facade, without substantial reality.
      It is belief in the MIR of a Constitution and a
      body of statutory and decisional law that was
      meant to deliver us from the tyranny of O-D
      structures in the minds of judges, which of
      course are capricious and arbitrary, depending
      on the prejudices of the particular reigning
      cliche of judges.

      <7>
      Similarly, Einstein sought refuge in the MIR of
      natural law from the capricious character of
      humans and the human race. I also have
      sought refuge in the belief in a "higher" law,
      but one must of course be very careful not to
      imbue even divine personalities with ideal
      qualities, which they may or may not possess.

      <8>
      [Quote from Muller :]
      <7> Mysticism and similar experiences can be
      of help for overall world-views. Actually
      something like that is needed for them. This is
      so because all mental mind-and-nature
      structures arise within experience, and thus
      experience always is (or can be) encompassing,
      as among others Jaspers emphasized in his
      later work ("Das Umgreifende das wir sind oder
      sein können"; Von der Wahrheit, 2.Kapitel,
      p.53). From this follows that mental structures
      cannot in turn encompass all of experience
      (i.e., theories of everything are self-
      contradictory unless they have such a
      component).

      <9>
      [Peter Mutnick]
      Apositional consciousness and experience are
      unstructured, while positional consciousness
      and experience are structured, in my system.
      The former is God Consciousness, while the
      latter is Christ Consciousness or Cosmic
      Consciousness or even the Stream of
      Consciousness. There are also the bits of
      experience of William James, neutral between
      content and consciousness, and these James
      considered to be fundamental, in the sense of
      your "subject," but even they depend on a
      considerable superstructure to your mere
      "subject." One might also consider the
      fundamental subjects of Whitehead, which are
      much more complex than your "subject."

      <10>
      [Quote from Muller :]
      <8> On the other hand, mysticism cannot take
      the place of instrumental and analytical
      thinking; if one tries to do that, everything gets
      fuzzy and arbitrary.

      <11>
      [Peter Mutnick]
      One of the judges I have come to despise said
      just that to me, in so many words. I beg to
      differ, of course. Mysticism, as I define it, is
      necessary to deliver us from the capriciousness
      of the arbitrary "subject." There is nothing
      vague or ill-defined about genuine mysticism -
      it is precise like a sort of meta-mathematics. It
      comes from the higher source that one
      postulates.

      <12>
      [Herbert Muller, cont.]
      Pragmatism can mean trying out mental
      structures, with feed-back during use, to see
      how well they work. It does not require an
      assumption of nature-MIR ("objective reality")
      to do that. Whether you feel that there is an
      existential void without such MIR-input is up to
      you.

      <13>
      [Peter Mutnick]
      You can experiment all you like, so long as you
      are not in a position of power over others. If
      so, your "experimentation" is of the character
      of the Nazi scientist or the false judges I have
      recently encountered, sitting in the holy place
      of justice where they ought not to sit. (With
      reference to the biblical description of the
      Antichrist.) I believe there is not only an
      existential void without necessary MIR
      structures, but a societal void that leads directly
      to fascism.

      <14>
      [Herbert Muller, cont.]
      The question is, in a nutshell, whether you
      (individually and/or collectively) want to make
      sense, or in contrast expect sense to be
      delivered to you, in pre-fabricated form, from
      outside.

      <15>
      Peter Mutnick]
      Making sense means precisely aspiring
      sincerely, and with absolute integrity, toward
      MIR structures, whether or not they really exist.
      If God did not exist, man would have to invent
      Him. Sartre came to a similar conclusion.

      <16>
      [Quote from Muller :]
      <6> What really exists is a decision (automatic
      or deliberate) of the subjects, individually
      and/or collectively; it results from investment of
      trust in created intra-experiential structures.
      This may but does not have to pre-suppose a
      mind-independent existence (MIR), which can
      never be proven in ways which convince
      everybody, but may be perceived to have
      auxiliary strength.

      How do you see your Saint-Peter connection, is
      he inside of you or outside ? How does
      fundamentalism (defined as belief in absolute
      validity of posited structures) work ? Some
      Islamic clergy have strong opinions on that.

      <17>
      [Peter Mutnick]
      As my previous discussion should have
      conveyed, I believe that your bare empiricism,
      or 0-D, or simple human/ animal "subject" is
      the root of fundamentalism, especially Christian
      fundamentalism, to which I, as Saint Peter or
      otherwise, do NOT subscribe. The Son, or
      simple "subject," must transcend himself
      toward the "Father," or God, and without that
      self-transcendence, the "Christ" is transformed
      into the Antichrist. All humans are in the
      position of the Son - none are in the position of
      the Father (although there are genuine
      incarnations - avatars - of the Father), but the
      oppressors among us usurp the position of God
      and attempt to lord it over the rest of us. That
      is the source of all misery on earth, as
      documented by Marx, Engels, and many others.

      <18>
      As for Islamic fundamentalism, I don't pretend
      to know much about the inner workings of that
      religion, being myself a product of the Judeo-
      Christian tradition. However, I do sense a
      childlike simplicity about even the worst of the
      so-called radicals that could spell trouble for the
      arrogant hypocricy of the West, karmically
      speaking. I sincerely believe that unless
      Americans awaken from their thorough
      brainwashing and arise in the spirit of a much
      needed Second American Revolution, America is
      finished - its days are numbered by the
      Almighty God Himself, who fiirst gave America
      succor and inspired the blueprint for a genuine
      democracy, which has not come to pass and is
      now but a facade, lacking substance. The laws
      are there for all to read about, but the judges
      do not enforce them. Instead, they enforce
      their own prejudices, arising from their 0-D
      construction of the law, and those prejudices
      are invariably on the side of the ruling class,
      impostering God, against the lower classes,
      suffering as the righteous or unrighteous Son of
      God. The righteous Son of God is of course the
      one who seeks his own self-transcendence and
      the realization of the genuine God.

      --------------------------------------------

      Peter Mutnick
      e-mail <saint7peter@...>

      --------------------------------------------

      <19>
      The subject is fundamental in the sense that it
      cannot be excluded, and so are the world and
      others, etc. They originate together in
      unstructured experience (which can also not be
      excluded), via 0-D. None of the structures can
      be the basis by itself. In particular is the
      subject per se not fundamental as the origin of
      0-D. (Something transcends all structures, as
      you put it, namely unstructured experience.)

      <20>
      The unstructured is what structures are created
      in, thus it is always present, and there is no
      contradiction in that. The inner life is only a
      delusion in case you expect the inner objects to
      be something everyone can bump into, like a
      stone, as some philosophers and scientists have
      implied (or even said - without blushing).

      <21>
      Mysticism can be an expression of the
      unstructured part of experience, and as such it
      can be important. But if you say the mystical
      experiences are very clear ("precise like a sort
      of meta-mathematics"), that makes the
      unstructured structured without further ado,
      thus actually abolishes it.

      <22>
      MIR and similar metaphysical structures can act
      as refuges, or temporary scaffolding, and this is
      fine so long as one is aware of this ad-hoc
      aspect, and allows others to differ.

      ----------------------------------------------

      Herbert FJ Müller
      e-mail <hmller@...>

      ****************************************************************************

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    • holderlin66
      Location-Location-Spiritus Loci Bam prospered because of pilgrims visiting its Zoroastrian fire temple (dating to early Sassanian times) and as a commercial
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 26, 2003
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        Location-Location-Spiritus Loci

        "Bam prospered because of pilgrims visiting its Zoroastrian fire
        temple (dating to early Sassanian times) and as a commercial and
        trading center on the famous Silk Road."

        http://www.sacredsites.com/december2001pages/bam.htm

        "Some forty-five years later, the Agha Khan Mahallati, the head of
        the Isma'ili Sect and a lineal descendant of the last Grand Master of
        the order of the Assassins, revolted against Fath Ali Shah."

        Bradford comments;

        We can see for ourselves that both California and Iran have had a
        resonating, inner Earth echo, of about a 6.5 Richter scale event. I
        haven't determined and perhaps Jan may have more information, if our
        technology has the ability to target regions through haarp to cause
        localized earthquakes. It may be that it is a natural karmic event
        that 20,000 people die in mud brick homes around the city of Bam in
        Iraq.

        But I wish to just 'see' into the location for a moment and just for
        the sheer exercise in geopolitical spiritual thinking connect a dot
        or two. Mind you to go running to every little tremble of the Earth
        and look up stuff is not that interesting for me, except that
        Spiritual Science can make a connection between the moral forces and
        the fiery geo actions within the Earth. Will forces and Earth forces
        are tied in because of 23 chromosomes and Earth's 23 degree tilt
        designating the tropic zones. Earth and human will are deeply rooted.

        For centuries Bam was connected to a Fire Temple of Zorastrian study.
        Nostradamus was a fire researcher of the order of the Zorastrian
        three kings variety. We know Nostradamus stared into flames and he
        would get flashes of the future as a medium, all the way down to the
        headlines of the 21st century. These would appear as quatrains.
        fourfold, four liners.

        Zarathustra, Prometheus the fire giver, and the higher Ego forces
        suddenly come to my mind. As if the soul who brought the fire,
        Prometheus, could create a school of Fire Initiates who could finally
        penetrate to the core of the Sun, Ahura MazTAO. TAO, TAO, TAO, the
        ringing tone of the music of the spheres and the chemistry of
        devachan matter.

        However as we have Zarathustra and his projected Incarnation as Jesus
        of Nazareth the Nazarene, we find the prediction of Fire SPirit
        Guardians and mysteries into the future of mankind...rumbling in
        history from out of today's Earthquake news. Let us see if the study
        of future events, either the testimony of the Three Kings and Herod's
        Sybll books or methods used by black brotherhoods shall compete or
        steal the future from the destiny of the feeble human race.

        Location of Iranian Earthquake:

        "The ancient Bam, which was inhabited until mid 19th century, is
        overlooking that route of trade and invasion, which the Sassanian
        Kings had already wished to control. Subsequently the Arabs extended
        their sway over it, only to be superseded by the Seljuk Turks in the
        11th century. Finally the citadel was captured by devastating Ghalzai
        Afghan invaders in 1722, but they were driven out in 1729, after
        their power had been shattered by Nader Shah Afshar. In 1795, the
        town w as the scene of the final stand of the gallant Lutf Ali Khan,
        the last of the enlightened Zand dynasty, against Agha Mohammad Khan,
        the first of the Qajar rulers of Iran. Some forty-five years later,
        the Agha Khan Mahallati, the head of the Isma'ili Sect and a lineal
        descendant of the last Grand Master of the order of the Assassins,
        revolted against Fath Ali Shah. On being defeated at Kerman, he and
        his followers took refuge in Bam, whence they subsequently fled to
        India; the present Agha Khan is a direct descent of him. Total
        abandonment of the city seems to be, however, of a recent date.
        Otherwise its ruins should have been in a much more dilapidating
        condition."

        Interesting aspects of Steiner's research:

        http://wn.elib.com/Steiner/Lectures/19171106p01.html

        "Spiritual Science penetrates here into things deeply connected with
        the impulses of human life in the present and in the future and of
        which it is extremely difficult to speak because they everywhere run
        counter to certain naive and even justifiable interests of men. The
        matter becomes comprehensible only when we take into consideration
        the fact that all these attempts by means of assassinations of which
        I have spoken up to now, were amateurishly directed, were not
        under "expert" guidance. They were attempts made without thorough
        knowledge of the occult connections; they were defence measures born
        of fear, and they were not under united leadership. They become
        intelligible only when we study the plan which they were actually
        intended to avert, and which was itself being pursued and staged with
        much greater insight. In the nineteenth century, a remarkable Order
        was still in existence over in the East: the Order of the "Thugs."
        This Order, which flourished in a certain region of Asia, did not
        arise out of mere desire - the desire, I mean, of its members - to
        gain their ends. The members of this Order were charged with the task
        of murdering certain persons named by very secret and unknown
        superiors. It was an Order of murderers, so to speak, with the task
        of putting certain individuals to death. Evidence of its activity
        filtered through from time to time in news announcing the murder of
        such and such a person. The murder was committed on the orders of
        unknown superiors who had charged some member of this Order of the
        Thugs to carry it out.

        In the places where this was undertaken, the aim was well understood.
        By arranging circumstances of the physical plane in such a way that
        the establishment of this Order of the Thugs was possible, and then
        by directing its activities as required, the plan was to bring about
        the violent death of such persons as would be equipped after their
        death with the faculty for learning certain secrets. The individuals
        who managed all this also organised corresponding conditions here, on
        the physical plane, to act as "mirrors" — "mirror events" as they are
        called in occultism. Such was the intention: to organise the
        appropriate "mirror events." Certain events of this kind — if only a
        few — have actually been organised on the physical plane. It is done
        in this way: certain suitable personalities are trained to be
        mediums, put into a mediumistic condition and by certain machinations
        the currents from the spiritual world are directed to the medium. The
        medium then divulges certain secrets which can only be disclosed by
        this means, namely, that in yonder world a person killed by a deed of
        violence, turns to account here, on the Earth, those forces which
        owing to his violent death can still be made use of; as souls, they
        fathom certain secrets and then instill them into the medium. And it
        is possible for those interested in such research here, on the Earth,
        to investigate what these souls are instilling by such means.

        What is investigated in this way is a sort of "premature spiritual
        birth" — if I may use this expression. The souls who passed through
        the Gate of Death in the normal way and are concerned with such
        things, know that they must be preparing themselves now — and they
        make it plain that they are engaged in this preparation — in order,
        later on, when humanity has sufficiently matured, to bring down many
        things to the Earth and inject them into the Earth by rightful means.
        This, indeed, is an important task devolving upon a number of human
        beings now passing through the Gate of Death. Having attained the
        requisite maturity for certain secrets at the right time — not
        prematurely, as is the case when forces generated by violent deaths
        are put into operation — the task of these souls is to use and apply
        the normal forces. It is actually the task of these human beings to
        acquire control of these forces and then to inspire them into men
        living on the Earth who are not mediums at all but who should
        experience them in the normal, legitimate way — through genuine
        Inspiration. "

        Bradford continues;

        Mediums, working out of brotherhoods, read or rather steal future
        headlines from the savaged and murdered dead. Fire Initiates with
        Star and mathematical vision, were able to hold fast the higher ego,
        astral and etheric form forces and as Zarathustra did, give them to
        his students. Thereby the Astral body of Christ could also be given
        as well as the Etheric or Atma form.

        David Kelly was the cause of much interest, as to whether he was
        murdered or not. Colin McMillan was very high up, like Kelly, until
        his apparent suicide. Ladies and gentleman of the Michael School,
        surely you can see that robbery of the future has a method that goes
        under the wires of any of our astute observations, with the exception
        of Jan and company, and that manipulation of the future for those who
        are on the Watchtower now must take into consideration curious events
        anti Zorastrian events.

        Colin McMillan:

        " have been giving your question some further thought. It is true
        that in Volume Three, Chapter 27 of "The Catchers of Heaven", Dr.
        Michael Wolf identifies the chief of the Cabal as a "Naval Under-
        Secretary" named "Colm McGrath". This is certainly a pseudonym, just
        as Dr. Wolf told me that Lt.General Bob Lewis is a pseudnym for a
        real General in the NSC's Special Studies Group ["MJ-12"] whom he
        cannot name outright.

        Thus, I return to my recollection that in private conversation Dr.
        Wolf identified the U.S. chief of the Cabal as former Assistant
        Secretary of Defense, now Navy Secretary-designate, Colin McMillan,
        the man behind the pseudonym "Colm McGrath".

        Let me quote Dr. Wolf exactly as to what the Cabal is: "the darkest,
        most shit-kicking organization going. ...We now know it as
        the 'Cabal', a finely-tuned covert group, a well-orchestrated
        conspiratorial bevy of plotters and intruders with excellent secret
        counterpoint schemes and plots, and it i top-heavy with the military,
        as was the original Majestic Twelve Special Studies Group." Wolf went
        on to identify his group, the Good Guys, as "MJ12SSG, with the lead
        agency being the Alphacom Team, the target[!] of the Cabal."

        Dr. Wolf goes on, "I suspect Colm Mcgrath's [Naval Secretary-
        designateColin McMillan's] Cabal is not even known to the Chief [then-
        President Clinton]. He very well could be leading an insurrection, a
        coup. The Cabal is responsible for the use of kinetic [space]
        weapons, and neutral particle beam weapons..."

        Bradford concludes;

        OUt of the ancient city of Bam and the studied school of occult
        mediums working for black brotherhoods, a new epidemic from an
        ancient source lives in the world today. There are handlers to
        Presidents, who are connected to Zionism and manipulating
        brotherhoods that are actively reading events, in the opposite way
        than we would read events. We attempt to read the Event Horizon on
        the basis of the legacy of Michael Thinking. Active Michael Thinking.
        Brotherhoods of the left prefer to manipulate future events, have the
        whole world focus on David Kelly and from that focus of attention,
        and murder, spiritual forces can be robbed from the Karma of mankind.

        Jan is one of the few people who have shared her research with us,
        aside from Steiner. But sometimes events allow us to look into the
        turbid pool of the world and see strange connections. One wonders who
        needs to be killed in order to keep this fiasco of Ahrimanic
        deceptions running in the world today. How have assassinations such
        as Robert, John and Martin, as well as John Lennon deploring served
        dark brotherhoods?

        There are also thousands, like the Slaughter of the Innocence in
        dozens of countries, that may have had One noble Initiate slated to
        incarnate. That in the millions and thousands that were let
        slaughtered from Argentina to Africa, we wonder what mighty
        contribution even one or two the souls might have made? We imagine
        that it is all timeing, accidents and acts of god...I think we have
        to be as awake and diserning as Steiner was, given our capacities,
        and not underestimate behind the scenes events.
      • Jan
        No time today for proper reply, I¹m out visiting. Love to all, including all companion animals. Jan http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=115 in 1935
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 27, 2003
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          Re: [anthroposophy] Iranian Earthquake thoughts No time today for proper reply, I’m out visiting. Love to all, including all companion animals.
          Jan
          http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=115
           
          in 1935 Tesla spoke of creating controlled earthquakes and being able to produce: “rhythmical vibrations to pass through the Earth”. . . and to . . . “convey these mechanical effects to the greatest terrestrial distances and produce all kinds of unique effects.”

          Forty years later Tesla’s ideas may well have become a reality. In 1976 as Senator Claiborne Pell chaired a Senate sub-committee he warned: “We need a treaty now…before the military leaders of the world start directing storms, manipulating climates and inducing earthquakes against their enemies.”

          However Senator Pell’s warning may have already come too late. On June 5, 1977, New York Times described a huge earthquake in Tangshan, China which killed over 650,000 people. “Just before the first tremor at 3:42am,” the Times reported, “the sky lit up like daylight. The multi-hued lights, mainly white and red, were seen up to 200 miles away. Leaves on many trees were burned to a crisp and growing vegetables were scorched on one side, as if by a fireball.”

          Some investigators have concluded that these effects were the product of Tesla-like technology and/or HAARP transmissions. Whatever the real cause though they sound eerily reminiscent of what Tesla himself described as a weapon capable of producing “all kinds of unique effects.”







          Location-Location-Spiritus Loci

          "Bam prospered because of pilgrims visiting its Zoroastrian fire
          temple (dating to early Sassanian times) and as a commercial and
          trading center on the famous Silk Road."

          http://www.sacredsites.com/december2001pages/bam.htm

          "Some forty-five years later, the Agha Khan Mahallati, the head of
          the Isma'ili Sect and a lineal descendant of the last Grand Master of
          the order of the Assassins, revolted against Fath Ali Shah."

          Bradford comments;

          We can see for ourselves that both California and Iran have had a
          resonating, inner Earth echo, of about a 6.5 Richter scale event. I
          haven't determined and perhaps Jan may have more information, if our
          technology has the ability to target regions through haarp to cause
          localized earthquakes. It may be that it is a natural karmic event
          that 20,000 people die in mud brick homes around the city of Bam in
          Iraq.

          But I wish to just 'see' into the location for a moment and just for
          the sheer exercise in geopolitical spiritual thinking connect a dot
          or two. Mind you to go running to every little tremble of the Earth
          and look up stuff is not that interesting for me, except that
          Spiritual Science can make a connection between the moral forces and
          the fiery geo actions within the Earth. Will forces and Earth forces
          are tied in because of 23 chromosomes and Earth's 23 degree tilt
          designating the tropic zones. Earth and human will are deeply rooted.

          For centuries Bam was connected to a Fire Temple of Zorastrian study.
          Nostradamus was a fire researcher of the order of the Zorastrian
          three kings variety. We know Nostradamus stared into flames and he
          would get flashes of the future as a medium, all the way down to the
          headlines of the 21st century. These would appear as quatrains.
          fourfold, four liners.

          Zarathustra, Prometheus the fire giver, and the higher Ego forces
          suddenly come to my mind. As if the soul who brought the fire,
          Prometheus, could create a school of Fire Initiates who could finally
          penetrate to the core of the Sun, Ahura MazTAO. TAO, TAO, TAO, the
          ringing tone of the music of the spheres and the chemistry of
          devachan matter.

          However as we have Zarathustra and his projected Incarnation as Jesus
          of Nazareth the Nazarene, we find the prediction of Fire SPirit
          Guardians and mysteries into the future of mankind...rumbling in
          history from out of today's Earthquake news. Let us see if the study
          of future events, either the testimony of the Three Kings and Herod's
          Sybll books or methods used by black brotherhoods shall compete or
          steal the future from the destiny of the feeble human race.

          Location of Iranian Earthquake:

          "The ancient Bam, which was inhabited until mid 19th century, is
          overlooking that route of trade and invasion, which the Sassanian
          Kings had already wished to control. Subsequently the Arabs extended
          their sway over it, only to be superseded by the Seljuk Turks in the
          11th century. Finally the citadel was captured by devastating Ghalzai
          Afghan invaders in 1722, but they were driven out in 1729, after
          their power had been shattered by Nader Shah Afshar. In 1795, the
          town w as the scene of the final stand of the gallant Lutf Ali Khan,
          the last of the enlightened Zand dynasty, against Agha Mohammad Khan,
          the first of the Qajar rulers of Iran. Some forty-five years later,
          the Agha Khan Mahallati, the head of the Isma'ili Sect and a lineal
          descendant of the last Grand Master of the order of the Assassins,
          revolted against Fath Ali Shah. On being defeated at Kerman, he and
          his followers took refuge in Bam, whence they subsequently fled to
          India; the present Agha Khan is a direct descent of him. Total
          abandonment of the city seems to be, however, of a recent date.
          Otherwise its ruins should have been in a much more dilapidating
          condition."

          Interesting aspects of Steiner's research:

          http://wn.elib.com/Steiner/Lectures/19171106p01.html

          "Spiritual Science penetrates here into things deeply connected with
          the impulses of human life in the present and in the future and of
          which it is extremely difficult to speak because they everywhere run
          counter to certain naive and even justifiable interests of men. The
          matter becomes comprehensible only when we take into consideration
          the fact that all these attempts by means of assassinations of which
          I have spoken up to now, were amateurishly directed, were not
          under "expert" guidance. They were attempts made without thorough
          knowledge of the occult connections; they were defence measures born
          of fear, and they were not under united leadership. They become
          intelligible only when we study the plan which they were actually
          intended to avert, and which was itself being pursued and staged with
          much greater insight. In the nineteenth century, a remarkable Order
          was still in existence over in the East: the Order of the "Thugs."
          This Order, which flourished in a certain region of Asia, did not
          arise out of mere desire - the desire, I mean, of its members - to
          gain their ends. The members of this Order were charged with the task
          of murdering certain persons named by very secret and unknown
          superiors. It was an Order of murderers, so to speak, with the task
          of putting certain individuals to death. Evidence of its activity
          filtered through from time to time in news announcing the murder of
          such and such a person. The murder was committed on the orders of
          unknown superiors who had charged some member of this Order of the
          Thugs to carry it out.

          In the places where this was undertaken, the aim was well understood.
          By arranging circumstances of the physical plane in such a way that
          the establishment of this Order of the Thugs was possible, and then
          by directing its activities as required, the plan was to bring about
          the violent death of such persons as would be equipped after their
          death with the faculty for learning certain secrets. The individuals
          who managed all this also organised corresponding conditions here, on
          the physical plane, to act as "mirrors" ? "mirror events" as they are
          called in occultism. Such was the intention: to organise the
          appropriate "mirror events." Certain events of this kind ? if only a
          few ? have actually been organised on the physical plane. It is done
          in this way: certain suitable personalities are trained to be
          mediums, put into a mediumistic condition and by certain machinations
          the currents from the spiritual world are directed to the medium. The
          medium then divulges certain secrets which can only be disclosed by
          this means, namely, that in yonder world a person killed by a deed of
          violence, turns to account here, on the Earth, those forces which
          owing to his violent death can still be made use of; as souls, they
          fathom certain secrets and then instill them into the medium. And it
          is possible for those interested in such research here, on the Earth,
          to investigate what these souls are instilling by such means.

          What is investigated in this way is a sort of "premature spiritual
          birth" ? if I may use this expression. The souls who passed through
          the Gate of Death in the normal way and are concerned with such
          things, know that they must be preparing themselves now ? and they
          make it plain that they are engaged in this preparation ? in order,
          later on, when humanity has sufficiently matured, to bring down many
          things to the Earth and inject them into the Earth by rightful means.
          This, indeed, is an important task devolving upon a number of human
          beings now passing through the Gate of Death. Having attained the
          requisite maturity for certain secrets at the right time ? not
          prematurely, as is the case when forces generated by violent deaths
          are put into operation ? the task of these souls is to use and apply
          the normal forces. It is actually the task of these human beings to
          acquire control of these forces and then to inspire them into men
          living on the Earth who are not mediums at all but who should
          experience them in the normal, legitimate way ? through genuine
          Inspiration. "

          Bradford continues;

          Mediums, working out of brotherhoods, read or rather steal future
          headlines from the savaged and murdered dead. Fire Initiates with
          Star and mathematical vision, were able to hold fast the higher ego,
          astral and etheric form forces and as Zarathustra did, give them to
          his students. Thereby the Astral body of Christ could also be given
          as well as the Etheric or Atma form.

          David Kelly was the cause of much interest, as to whether he was
          murdered or not. Colin McMillan was very high up, like Kelly, until
          his apparent suicide. Ladies and gentleman of the Michael School,
          surely you can see that robbery of the future has a method that goes
          under the wires of any of our astute observations, with the exception
          of Jan and company, and that manipulation of the future for those who
          are on the Watchtower now must take into consideration curious events
          anti Zorastrian events.

          Colin McMillan:

          " have been giving your question some further thought. It is true
          that in Volume Three, Chapter 27 of "The Catchers of Heaven", Dr.
          Michael Wolf identifies the chief of the Cabal as a "Naval Under-
          Secretary" named "Colm McGrath". This is certainly a pseudonym, just
          as Dr. Wolf told me that Lt.General Bob Lewis is a pseudnym for a
          real General in the NSC's Special Studies Group ["MJ-12"] whom he
          cannot name outright.

          Thus, I return to my recollection that in private conversation Dr.
          Wolf identified the U.S. chief of the Cabal as former Assistant
          Secretary of Defense, now Navy Secretary-designate, Colin McMillan,
          the man behind the pseudonym "Colm McGrath".

          Let me quote Dr. Wolf exactly as to what the Cabal is: "the darkest,
          most shit-kicking organization going. ...We now know it as
          the 'Cabal', a finely-tuned covert group, a well-orchestrated
          conspiratorial bevy of plotters and intruders with excellent secret
          counterpoint schemes and plots, and it i top-heavy with the military,
          as was the original Majestic Twelve Special Studies Group." Wolf went
          on to identify his group, the Good Guys, as "MJ12SSG, with the lead
          agency being the Alphacom Team, the target[!] of the Cabal."

          Dr. Wolf goes on, "I suspect Colm Mcgrath's [Naval Secretary-
          designateColin McMillan's] Cabal is not even known to the Chief [then-
          President Clinton]. He very well could be leading an insurrection, a
          coup. The Cabal is responsible for the use of kinetic [space]
          weapons, and neutral particle beam weapons..."

          Bradford concludes;

          OUt of the ancient city of Bam and the studied school of occult
          mediums working for black brotherhoods, a new epidemic from an
          ancient source lives in the world today. There are handlers to
          Presidents, who are connected to Zionism and manipulating
          brotherhoods that are actively reading events, in the opposite way
          than we would read events. We attempt to read the Event Horizon on
          the basis of the legacy of Michael Thinking. Active Michael Thinking.
          Brotherhoods of the left prefer to manipulate future events, have the
          whole world focus on David Kelly and from that focus of attention,
          and murder, spiritual forces can be robbed from the Karma of mankind.

          Jan is one of the few people who have shared her research with us,
          aside from Steiner. But sometimes events allow us to look into the
          turbid pool of the world and see strange connections. One wonders who
          needs to be killed in order to keep this fiasco of Ahrimanic
          deceptions running in the world today. How have assassinations such
          as Robert, John and Martin, as well as John Lennon deploring served
          dark brotherhoods?

          There are also thousands, like the Slaughter of the Innocence in
          dozens of countries, that may have had One noble Initiate slated to
          incarnate. That in the millions and thousands that were let
          slaughtered from Argentina to Africa, we wonder what mighty
          contribution even one or two the souls might have made? We imagine
          that it is all timeing, accidents and acts of god...I think we have
          to be as awake and diserning as Steiner was, given our capacities,
          and not underestimate behind the scenes events.



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        • holderlin66
          Jan wrote: in 1935 Tesla spoke of creating controlled earthquakes and being able to produce: rhythmical vibrations to pass through the Earth . . . and to . .
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 27, 2003
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            Jan wrote:

            "in 1935 Tesla spoke of creating controlled earthquakes and being
            able to produce: "rhythmical vibrations to pass through the
            Earth". . . and to . . . "convey these mechanical effects to the
            greatest terrestrial distances and produce all kinds of unique
            effects."

            Forty years later Tesla's ideas may well have become a reality. In
            1976 as Senator Claiborne Pell chaired a Senate sub-committee he
            warned: "We need a treaty now…before the military leaders of the
            world start directing storms, manipulating climates and inducing
            earthquakes against their enemies."

            However Senator Pell's warning may have already come too late. On
            June 5, 1977, New York Times described a huge earthquake in Tangshan,
            China which killed over 650,000 people. "Just before the first tremor
            at 3:42am," the Times reported, "the sky lit up like daylight. The
            multi-hued lights, mainly white and red, were seen up to 200 miles
            away. Leaves on many trees were burned to a crisp and growing
            vegetables were scorched on one side, as if by a fireball."

            Some investigators have concluded that these effects were the product
            of Tesla-like technology and/or HAARP transmissions. Whatever the
            real cause though they sound eerily reminiscent of what Tesla himself
            described as a weapon capable of producing "all kinds of unique
            effects."

            Bradford comments;

            1933 to 35 you might be able to see what breakthrough events and
            frontline battles were happening in terms of Einstein and how Ahriman
            pointed Einstein to the abstract Equation of Light that gave birth to
            the bastard Son of Light, the nuclear Age. But these cold historical
            facts are rooted in previous lifetimes that bump right up against Bam
            and Manichaeism.

            Tesla like Madame Blavatsky, might very well have been taken occultly
            hostage as we know Tesla's patents were taken hostage, and held
            behind the events to serve such Science bastards, such unfree energy
            over the earth, that Tesla could have given humanity freely. It was
            taken over by the Military.

            Thereby, look you, how embroiled we are in the false paradigm of
            simply running our cars on oil and gasoline. Energy is indeed the
            theme, but we are not seeing exactly what energy, Christ Science and
            energy that is being thwarted against the Michael School. Steiner was
            a very good scientist and his Hiscia machine to potentize remedies is
            stunning science.

            In the background, we have technology that not only PENETRATES the
            Earth, but Free Etheric Energy, that would make Wireless, a costless
            commodity. Tesla had it all figured out. Keely had been onto it and
            we know that Keely was mysteriously killed by leaving the exhaust
            fumes of his car directed by a hose, into the sealed windows of his
            garage.

            You might wonder how we got on this stray topic. Well blame it on
            Jesus of Zara/Nazara and the Earthquake in California and the echoing
            Earthquake in Iran. But the point is that we can we list some of the
            stunning events that rocked culture because of 1933 in order for us
            to understand the immense Victories that the Ahrimanic hordes grabbed
            for?

            Gold Standard shifted to paper to plastic to electronic invisible
            substance like false etheric gold, Stock Market Crash, Dust Bowel,
            Reischtag burning and Weimar event on Steiner's birthday that opened
            the mighty WWII catastrophe.

            Einstein and the nuclear equation that led to Oppenheimer.

            King Kong as the Triumphant Darwinian concept towering on the only
            Tower of the World, not the Twin Towers.

            Tesla figures out the circulating energy complex of the Earth that is
            greater than electricity and Tesla wants to give it freely to
            Humanity but J.P. Morgan and the banks enter in to allow the massive
            Science explosions and research to drip slowly down the river to
            parched humans who pay for all the Military Industrial research that
            is sponsored by, not Christ thinking, but Ahriman.

            The Fact that Truman was the 33rd President of the United States and
            Jefferson was 33 when he penned the foundations of America.. is
            hardly the same the same I know.

            On the other scale, the Rising Etheric Christ, in 1933 with the
            guradianship of Rosenkreutz, shed the secrets of matter and science
            into culture as the Christ Rose with the true, Immortal Gold forces
            that we understand as the true weight of brotherhood and shared
            empathy on the Earth. This was to be the new Gold Standard and Earth
            Science was to be offered freely to mankind so that they could
            concentrate on the mighty Cosmology and brotherhood of the Michael
            Intelligence.

            Shed and watershed and grabbing and twisting that which was given to
            that which we see and fear in the world, has been part of the
            Ahrimanic victories but without the understanding of how this was
            shed as the Christ Rose with the most refined Light of the Seraphim
            in his Global Immensity.

            Below you will find the severed and shed element of Light that
            Einstein discovered in matter. However the Risen Light of the Etheric
            Christ contains higher emmanations of this Light, Love, Devachan
            mystery of intoned Sun Gold and the new brother and sisterhood of the
            Grail community.

            The Beings who made matter, hold the copyright and blueprints on the
            Form, and Spirit of Form models, that have now been handed over to
            the archai realm. On that stunning handing over the Spirit of Form
            Sun Gold blueprints to the Archai rests most of the intense activity
            of politics, War, Racism and the nuclear and cloning nightmares of
            making a New Earth in Ahriman's model.

            Now what team are you on? What is your depth of penetration? Can you
            follow any of this? It is the wonderful illusion of false paradigms
            and the well hidden mystery of the Etheric Christ that prevents us
            from seeing the hidden in plain sight Ahrimanic agenda. What does
            this have to do with Politics today, and why should everyone fail to
            grasp the core of where Science and Ahriman revealed the Shock and
            Awe of only a minor embedded force of Light in matter compared to the
            mighty mystery of the Christ Being Himself?

            We are now close to an intimate understanding of Mani and Mani, for
            those just tuning in to his unscheduled program, He was the
            mysterious "Youth of Nain and Son of the Widow and was Stuffed and
            tortured at Ghandi Shapur on the cusp of 666 when this Science
            explosion threatened to burst into history before humanity had
            matured.

            Sorathian and Ahrimanic forces are working with the Tesla, Einstein
            and David Kelly future paradigms. We, as part of the Michael School,
            must be able to think and See clearer than the fragmented vision of
            Mediums and failed political commentary, that are using the dead,
            assassinated and murdered to rip the direction of the future from
            mankind. You may wonder how everyone sits around the Congress numbly
            and unable to act, because they are caught in the projected fog of
            full fledged Information War that out Orwell's Orwell and Karl Rove
            is part of the link to the back door of these occult events. Look
            deeply and do not be afraid to SEE.

            Manichaeism and Zorastrianism

            http://www.farvardyn.com/mani1.htm

            "By chance the Devil came to the boundary between hell and heaven,
            and saw, desired, and invaded the Light. To protect his realm, and to
            preserve its eternal peace, the Father of Greatness evoked by word
            Emanations of himself, to do battle with the powers of Darkness.
            These Emanations are the gods of Manichaeism. Being essentially the
            same, they are distinguished from one another mainly by their
            functions.

            There are three separate "Creations" of gods. Those of the First
            Creation are the Mother of Life, who evokes in turn her "son", the
            First Man; and he evokes as his "sons" the Five Light Elements, from
            the substance of the Paradise of Light. With these he goes forth to
            do battle with the devils, the first warrior of Light.

            The Light Elements are also called his "armour", and his "bait",
            which, overwhelmed by the powers of Darkness, he is forced to throw
            them to distract them from Paradise.

            ******************************************
            The devils swallow the Light Elements, are appeased, and cease their
            invasion. By this act a part of the Light has become absorbed in
            Darkness. This lost Light is smothered by the Matter which has
            devoured it, suffers, and forgets its divine nature. Matter itself
            rejoices in the Light it has obtained, and grows to depend upon it.
            **************************************************

            The First Man overwhelmed in the deeps of hell, remains unconscious
            on the battlefield. Recovering his senses, he cries out for help; and
            his Mother, hearing him, pleads with the Father of Greatness, who
            evokes the Second Creation of gods for his aid:

            the Friend of the Lights (whose function is obscure),
            the Great Builder,
            and the Living Spirit with his five Sons,
            the Keeper of Splendour,
            the King of Honour,
            the Adams of Light,
            the King of Glory,
            and Atlas.

            The Living Spirit goes to the edge of the abyss and utters a call,
            and the First Man answers from the depths. Call and Answer themselves
            are made gods, the Sixth Sons of the Living Spirit and the First Man
            respectively. They symbolise the yearning of the gods for the
            defeated Light, and the response of that Light to their summons. The
            rescue of the first Man is a pattern for the redemption thereafter of
            all individual souls; for, awakened from his unconsciousness, he
            rises up from the pit, and is led back to Paradise by the Mother of
            Life and the Living Spirit.

            After Mani's death, the leadership of his church was in dispute
            between two of his followers, Sisinnios and Gabriabos. The former was
            successful, and led the community until his martyrdom in 191-2. His
            successor, Innaios, appears to have won tolerance for the
            Manichaeans, which lasted until new persecutions broke out under
            Hormizd II. Little is known of the church during the rest of the
            Sasanian period, except that it endured many bloody persecutions at
            the hands of the Zoroastrian, and that its main strength gradually
            became concentrated beyond the Oxus, over the north-eastern border of
            Iran."
          • golden3000997@cs.com
            Dear Bradford, I know exactly how you are feeling and it is why I would never knowingly view that video. The same thing happened to me when I watched The
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 1, 2004
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              Dear Bradford,

              I know exactly how you are feeling and it is why I would never knowingly view
              that video. The same thing happened to me when I watched "The White Rose". At
              the end of the movie, it shows Sophie facing the guillotine. Shortly
              afterward, it shows the actual photographs of the martyrs and when they died. I said
              before that it was at least 45 minutes before I could leave the theater and at
              least 5 people patted me on the shoulder on their way out, I was such a mess.

              We need to remember, too that Steiner talked about the ancient Aztec
              mysteries where a human being was sacrified and his beating heart held up in front of
              the masses. I also think of the not so distance pratice of public hangings,
              the public guillotine executions during the French Revolution and the rise of
              prurient interest in making state executions available for viewing to the
              public. All of these things have a devastatingly corrupt effect on the souls of the
              viewers. There are two issues - the direct karmic effects of the murder and
              the poisonous effect of allowing such a thing to be witnessed. The daily news is
              really, a carrier of this poison. Even "in the movies" - as I have already
              alluded to in a previous post - there is a terribly corrupting effect of the
              countless murders watched and the effect of more and more gruesome
              representations that it takes to keep the audiences titillated. I liked the first couple of
              Indiana Jones movies, but I remember that when I rented, I think it was "the
              temple of doom" - I had to turn it off. There was a scene in a supposedly
              Egyptian temple where the priest reached into the chest of a living victim just
              with his hand and pulled out his beating heart. Do you realize how many CHILDREN
              have watched this movie? And no one thinks anything is wrong with it!!!

              I think that it is important to know about these things and probably to read
              about them, but I don't think that anyone striving to even keep on being a
              sensitive person, much less a "clairvoyant" sort of person, should actually watch
              these things. Watching them allows the full effect to take place, no matter
              what the subsequent thoughts are. It's like why children should not watch fairy
              tales in movies, but only hear them. That way, their souls have the
              opportunity to filter out anything that they are not developmentally ready for and
              prevent it from doing harm. I think the only kind of person who can really watch
              these kinds of atrocities are exorcists. Only people esoterically trained to
              wield the tools of psychic combat can have any chance. And even so, I have heard
              that such people are usually torn down in time. Their work is a sacrifice
              that few people have any idea of.

              I had a bad experience about six months ago. I was surfing the net looking
              for pictures of kitty cats. I take very serendipitous routes. I found a sight
              with some nice stuff and clicked on a link that said something like
              "exploitation." I just wasn't thinking. I must have thought it would be cartoons or
              something. There were the most GOD-AWFUL pictures of laboratory experiments! I just
              freaked out! I had to run to my next door neighbor, screaming and sobbing. I
              really had trouble getting my breath. It took a LONG time to recover at all.
              Well, I later e-mailed the folks at that site. They are totally well meaning,
              totally vegan really crusading for the animals. Their intention was only the
              good. But I told them that people who are already knowledgable and sensitive to
              these things must have a much clearer warning about what they are about to see.
              I also think it should be off limits to under 18. Talk about OBSCENE!! If I
              had kids, I would rather they see sex for hours at a time than a minute of
              those pictures!! Why do we prohibit a movie if there is but frontal nudity yet let
              basically all ages into movies filled with the true obscenity of violence?

              I couldn't even watch any news program that started to talk about the
              cannibal. I won't even say his name in print. There was something attached to that
              that made me totally unable to even hear about it. I'm not even going to wonder
              why, because I can't think about it. It certainly was no wonder, though that
              he was killed in prison. I'm sure that even the most hardened criminals had no
              defenses against that kind of evil.

              The only thing that I would want to say, though, even though I know so well
              how you feel right now, is please try not to think in terms of "them" meaning
              other countries or political factions. Please remember that "we" meaning the US
              and its allies do the same things, although not always in the same way. I
              mean, we do do the same things, but we tend to be a little more subtle in our
              presentations.

              As I said before, referencing "Wag the Dog", perhaps some movies are a kind
              of "confessional" telling people how things really are under the guise of
              fiction. You can get away with anything if you call it fiction. Kind of like a
              murderer who confesses to the police in such a way that they can't possibly
              believe his story. He gets exonerated and off scot free. It happens more than you
              might think. Eyes Wide Shut is a good example, but I think they made the "black
              magic" scenes much too light. Too cliched and simplistic. The people seemed a
              little bit silly. I think that such things are real, but more awful than even
              Kubrick would dare to portray. Do you remember the Wicked Queen in Snow White?
              She demanded Snow White's heart and liver to eat. Something really awful
              lives in that story! do you remember the true ending? She is made to dance in
              red-hot iron shoes until she drops dead. My children (the very end of
              Kindergarten) audibly sighed the first time I got to that ending. They NEEDED such a fate
              for that witch!!! They really NEEDED it!! Red-hot iron - is that a Michael
              force, or WHAT?!

              In fact, it is coming to me as I write this that I should suggest to you,
              Bradford, to go right now and get out any good fairy tale book and read them, any
              of them, until you fall asleep tonight. Don't anguish your soul with more
              thinking directly about the horrors. Drink the healing potion that the Fairy
              Tales contain. You will be better for it, I know. I can feel your pain and I am
              crying, too.

              I'll hit the send button now, hoping that you are still online and get this
              message tonight.

              God Bless You!!
              Christine
            • Maurice McCarthy
              RP4 was posted on the kjf website this afternoon - I know because I get email copies the same day of all that goes up - and also the below written by a man who
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 24, 2004
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                RP4 was posted on the kjf website this afternoon - I know because I get
                email copies the same day of all that goes up - and also the below written
                by a man who calls himself a physicalist. There was also a short piece on
                Nietzsche and Evolution.

                Maurice


                ----------------------------------------
                KARL JASPERS FORUM
                TA63 (Leslie / Rees)

                Commentary 29 (to C18, Wood and C23, Roberts)

                ( JASPERS AND RELIGION )
                by Philip Benjamin
                12 January 2004, posted 25 January 2004

                [Greg Nixon]
                Without getting "convoluted", why is it you seem to think
                evolutionism is as misguided as transcendentalism, or
                fundamentalism more pure than constructivism.

                [Philip Benjamin]
                For this Forum, the Fundamentals of the Bible may be phrased as
                follows:

                1. Communication, Information, Consciousness and Personhood are
                timeless, existing in Elohim (uni-plural) of Moses ( Genesis 1:1) or the
                triune He- I-You (PERSONS) of Isaiah 48:16: One El, Three Persons
                or Three Wills in synergy.

                2. This System of Personhoods is reflected in Man (Male/Female) as
                intuition (spirit), intelligence (mind) and sense (body), a replica of the
                uni-plural Elohim (Gen.1:27). Spirit and Mind are nonluminous, body
                is luminous, nothing is metaphysical.

                Note: Even a pseudo tri-unity of id, ego, superego has systematic
                explanatory powers.

                3. Personhood in its original state had intrinsic (unfettered) free will

                4. Creation is SEPARATE (holy) from but synergetic with the Creator,
                in complete harmony.

                Note: So far, only the First Law of Thermodynamics is operative

                5. Free exercise of creature's original will against the Creator's Will
                causes dissonance and loss of original synergy and introduces
                Transcendence between the two or a Fallen State for the creature.

                Note: Now, the Second Law of Thermodynamics sets in.

                6. The original Free Will of the creature is Lost, the will is now
                Bound, bound for TOTAL separation from the Creator. The capability
                of free exercise remains, but it is only the free exercise of a Bound
                Will. Total Separation means Total Depravity. Degeneration of the
                luminous Body is only an initial part of that Destruction. The
                nonluminous intelligence (mind) and intuition (spirit) continue to
                operate. But, Cessation of the luminous Temporal Life leaves the
                nonluminous dormant, awaiting Storage or Disposal.

                7. The Repair of this System Degeneracy is beyond even Cosmic
                proportions. The Second Transcendent Person Freely becomes the
                *express image* of Elohim in the Human Form as described in Moses,
                Psalms and the Prophets (e.g. Deuteronomy 18, Isaiah 53, psalm 22
                etc., etc). He undergoes the same Separation and Destruction man
                (male/female) goes through temporally. He Recovers and is able to
                Recover to the First Transcendent Person, WHOSOEVER (no
                exclusivity) FREELY (no compulsion) accepts His Recovery. The Third
                Transcendent Person brings to the Degenerate (Fallen) state the
                Consciousness of being Lost. Final Recovery is Restoration and Safe
                Storage to the Original State. On the other hand Final Loss is
                Separation and Timeless Disposal.

                This is Part 1, and the most important part, of Biblical Fundamentals.

                Now this looks to me as a parody of John Banyan in Post Modern
                script. I cannot imagine why any one wants to equate this with
                Pogroms, Inquisition, Witch Burnings, Slave Trades, Crusades, 9/11
                and bigotries of all kinds including the postmodern tolerance of
                everything but such noble Fundamentals.

                -----------------------------------

                Philip Benjamin, Ph.D
                e-mail <medinuclear@...>

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