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9638Rép. : [anthroposophy] Re: Fruits of Detachment/Holderlin

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  • danifyou@tv.videotron.ca
    Nov 1 6:39 PM
      Right on and Gradual by Solid Way of Truth
      And Arguments are Enlightened the Clues Ancient!

      Let me tell you Brad, it is in the Materializing
      Of the Primal Imaginations of Man as a Spirit
      Dwelling in the Spiritual World and Creating
      Amidst it and with Will what will be;
      Out of the Primeval Gods-given Substances
      On the Foundation of the Christ Impulse
      Of the '33 and 1 third' and Nathan Soul
      Gold Kingdom of the Aesir Freya Folk Land
      Discovery in the Heart of Love Wish-New
      Formative Forces Accessed by Alliance!

      I didn't know about the Hannibal Lecter's
      Mask connection you just uttered, but Sir;
      Just as Anthony Hopkins is a Pragmatic Sir
      Himself mixing not with the Platitudes of
      The mass Epimethean; here comes
      The Rich Sophia Star Wisdom and the
      Golden Cup of the Brain Reflecting
      Palladium Activity Cross Blood Turn
      Point of the Thorns; so to Grail in
      From Above Receive a Rain New Infusion!

      Jan said it and you agreed; Ahriman has
      Been cast into the lower rung brain bound
      Space consciousness of the Senses Mineral...
      Here comes a Mystery of the Transfiguration
      That belongs to the THAWING of the Brain
      By the Fire of the Above, Hyperion, or Amun-RA
      As the Starry Dome Instream Imprint inself within the Skull!
      Crucifixion and the Golgotha School
      Of Life Abundant Found thereof!

      So as has been said:
      "I went into inferior regions"
      Where was the Dread and
      That which is the Breaking
      Of the Old Head Net of Saturn;
      So it was with Lazarus!
      Only Hölderlin was to not
      Healed in that incarnation;
      But the Fruits later New Construction!
      I have to say New Genesis here and
      Add Novalis to Hölderlin;
      As much as we also speak of Moses and Elias!
      As much as Goethe was once Jethro
      And Righteous James; and that Peter was
      With him when Talitha (later as 'Kühn')
      Was raised like the Youth of Nain!

      Does that make sense as a FIRE BAPTISM
      My Friends and as to make the ICE MELT!?

      I say Yes - we have the Power in our hands!
      For we are the Builders of the New Jerusalem
      Nova Land of Air to Descend to Men;
      The New Ground of the Immortals - hence -
      We have in Consciousness Awake to Tell
      That our Spirit is Real-Potent and Conceive -
      Is not like Dead Old Letter
      Maya-Matrix-Mineral Shell;
      But Seminal to the Christward World
      Of Love to Come as the Very Kingdom!

      Danny Boy

      ----Message original -----
      De : holderlin66<holderlin66@...>
      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
      <holderlin66@h...> wrote:

      Bradford comments;

      History and records of incarnational problems as the 'I AM' moves
      through time, moves through the placement service of the Spiritual
      World and the Sophia Star data and incarnational, birth and
      embryo, 'find a face, gene and karma link and rising sign', reveals
      interesting problems of Time and Times memory.

      What I mean by such a complex sentence is targeted to a specfic
      karmic case but also one of time. Holderlin was accused of being a
      Jacobian. He was given real torture and insanity treatment to jar his
      sanity. During the fits, where Holderlin was constrained by the
      Doctor who invented and tried the mask that Hannibal Lectar wears
      in "Silence of the Lambs"..the inventor of that mask, used it first
      on Holderlin. Holderlin shouted, as he was accused of conspiracy,
      that he was not a Jacobian.

      Now Time arises again, where Leo Strauss, Weimar, Jacobians and
      Conservative, pathological fundamentalism returns. I site here a
      woman who writes well, I have cited her before, she seems to link
      herself to deeper Michael issues... I certainly have never met her,
      but I meet her thoughts and they regularly interface with thoughts I
      carry for the Michael School. It is one of those things we have to
      learn to get used to.

      The Philosopher Kulewind Georg, is one of the real philosophers still
      working in a rich way out of the Michael School. One has to remember
      that the Michael School is rich with history, thought, carried
      incarnational data on individuals, and carried and linked historical
      crisis moments that are repeating themselves even now. One of these
      is the Jacobian early ambush on Holderlin, where Holderlin in a fit
      of rage shouted, "I AM not a Jacobian".

      I have pondered these things for some time, but the links through
      history are arising again within history and Ahrimanic Symptomology.
      Historical insights arise from Woodrow Wilson to Dr. Steiner and
      linked directly to the current Bush Administration, back to Hitler
      and Weimar. These are rhythm patterns that are fairly deep philosophy
      but intimate to all that I have brought up dealing with Nominalism
      and Realism. Again, I say, they are really farly simple but most of
      us aren't used to in our education, linking streams, karma and
      intimate realities together. But this one, on the Karmic tracking of
      Holderlin, is curious and interesting as well as right on the money
      with todays events.

      Here is what this female Military Officer says, and she continues to
      be intimate, perhaps unconsciously, with the stream of the Michael
      School. Mind you I just sense it and see it as items intimate to my
      own soul seem to also arise powerfully and distinctly in her soul.
      Mind you again, there are those on this list that this intimacy is
      truly conscious and subtle, and I honor the connections with all my


      "Name calling is not necessary, although it seems to be getting more
      difficult even to describe them honestly as adherents of Irving
      Kristol's neoconservativism. They are correct to resist the label, I
      suppose, as neoconservativism is a misnomer of majestic proportions.
      Neo-Jacobinism is the name that fits far more accurately than
      neoconservative, as no rational person would define a "new"
      conservative as an advocate of perpetual war to promote abstract
      global morality through military imperialism, propped up by muscular
      national socialism at home."

      But now a little tale that shows the connecting dots of mighty stream
      of karmic activity, which Holderlin and Hegel didn't like but had
      also made its appearance back then. Today's brand of NeoJacobianism,
      is part of the unconcious Ahrimanic Symptomology I was exploring
      here. Here is a sample she provides. (Mind you, it does take some
      simple, ready at hand, understanding of deep swings of Philosophy
      that stir the depths of souls)

      "Justin Raimondo's precise, clear and accurate description of
      neoconservativism as "an authoritarian power cult" is both
      encouraging and exciting.

      It's encouraging, because he has named the beast. A Trotskyist-
      Straussian-Wohlstetterian-Kristollian philosophical tsunami struck
      our shores before dawn, and we have now awakened to widespread and
      costly damage to the ideas and way of thinking about the world that
      once made America both free and great. Authoritarian power cult is an
      excellent description of neoconservativism.

      It's exciting, because we can now see the cult's native
      vulnerability, one shared by cults everywhere. At their core, cults
      are authoritarian and power-oriented. Luckily, it is within the very
      circle of Plato's 21st century self-appointed ruling guardians, those
      who envision the glorious utopia that would be possible if only the
      rest of us would simply shut up and do what we are told, that we find
      the antidote to the present day political crisis in America. The
      authoritarian power center relies on the rest of us abnegating our
      own judgment, individually and systematically. For neoconservativism,
      we are also required to abnegate our belief in the ideas contained in
      the Constitution and other early American statements of man's
      relation to the state, and the role of the federation.

      In the military, we are taught to trust in those who have gone before
      and stand above, without introspection or examination. Occasional
      thinking and study is needed, but collectivism is how soldiers and
      armies are put together, and stay together. Without that abnegation
      of personal judgment in favor of the judgment of a collective
      authority, the thing can fall apart. This problem has always
      challenged military commanders. It does so today in Iraq as they
      struggle to keep their troops safe, satisfied and motivated in their
      daily constabulary duties under fire. The collective judgment façade
      is starting to fall apart in the face of what soldiers actually see
      around them, not just while on patrols but in the barracks as they
      hear the authoritarian message ringing increasingly shrill and
      hollow. No wonder a commander felt the need to craft his
      unit's "letter to home" himself and merely solicit signatures, not
      input, from his troops.

      One needs training and practice to reliably and consistently suborn
      to others. I attended Air Force ROTC summer camp in 1980, and it was
      one of my first real experiences with the phenomenon of power mad
      authoritarianism. It was really quite incredible fun. At the camp, we
      were divided into flights, each with a training officer. Another
      flight's training officer, a Captain, became obsessed with a group of
      four Virginia Military Institute cadets from our flight. This man
      would come over frequently to help "train" us.

      The Capitan wore a dark mustache squared off at the sides of the
      upper lip. While this was the only authorized presentation of a
      mustache in the Air Force at the time, we came to believe it
      signified a Fascistic id struggling for expression.

      Being from Virginia Military Institute and having spent their entire
      college careers in far more restrictive and authoritarian climes, the
      four musketeers had the idea that ROTC summer camp really was a
      summer camp. The Capitan wanted instant obedience from them, but even
      more, he wanted to see fear and trembling in the eyes of these
      cadets. It was one of those situations where someone wasn't going to
      get what they wanted.

      Now, in a designed utopian world – the unhappy ones should have been
      the VMI cadets, but as you can imagine, they had a wonderful time.
      One day the Capitan lectured them on the rules of the uniform, of
      bearing, and the seriousness of the training camp. A day later all
      four showed up in formation wearing plastic Mickey Mouse sunglasses.
      Standing tall, in formation, pressed uniforms, straight faces, eyes
      forward, and Mickey.

      The instructor was infuriated.

      For their many transgressions, the Capitan would assign penalty
      marches, at his command. The four always obeyed instantly, marching
      as instructed, including at one point into a tall hedge where they
      dutifully stomped and slogged, if I may borrow a word from the
      distinguished Mr. Rumsfeld, for several minutes until Capitan looked
      back and noticed. Alas and alack, the challenge of central planning!

      Capitan went after them, apoplectic and screaming. The rest of us
      enjoyed the spectacle. At the time, I didn't realize we were getting
      a lesson on combating intellectual terrorism.

      It isn't that difficult. You have to maintain a certain reality-based
      perspective, understand and accurately assess the enemy's motivations
      and tactics, and if necessary, fight asymmetrically, never against
      their strengths and always their weaknesses. This would be the
      solution that Rumsfeld is looking for in the slog against terrorism –
      unfortunately he sent his memo to the wrong people. Under Secretary
      for Policy Feith and Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz, at least, are sure
      to return answers to Rumsfeld that have nothing to do with a U.S.
      foreign policy that is antagonistic, aggressive, and morally
      bankrupt, and everything to do with ways to increase the body count,
      and make the numbers look better.

      Neoconservative strengths include tight intellectual conformity and
      ideological gatekeeping, dutifully ensured by ever-alert and
      defensive Frums, Kristols and Krauthammers. Neoconservatives are
      practiced masters of repetitive and imaginative storylines,
      fabrications, insinuations and name calling when it gets hot in the
      kitchen. Therefore in combating these strengths, we should be
      intellectually independent and challenging, open to ideas and
      perspectives than can help in the battles that lie ahead of us. We
      shouldn't need storylines to repeat, just accurate information to

      Bradford continues;

      But penetrating into Holderlin's Time and Character, I come to
      perceptions where Ahrimanic Symptomology has arisen from out of the
      world of Weimar and Leo Strauss and the French Revolution and current
      NeoJacobianism... The author makes a PDF link to Jacobiansim which I
      followed up on.. There were my old friends, Fichte, Hegel, Schelling
      and Kant...I have had a play in my mind for some time, about an
      actual event...it was a meeting that took place between Novalis,
      Holderlin and Fichte one night...Part of the inner Kuhlewind depth
      Philosophy that I experience, has to do, with an obscure, Japanese
      insight that had to do with the study of Holderlin and the I AM. This
      I AM is much talked about and it turns out that Holderlin, before his
      insanity in 1802, Novalis death in 1801 and the death of Sophie von
      Kuhn, was not really what shattered the short term karmic flare of
      Holderlin's mighty intuition. Pewter ware was common and both
      Beethoven and Holderlin had drank and eaten off of Pewter ware, the
      severe lead poisoning and Karmic burn out insanity of Holderlin had
      to do with all of the above.. However...hear what research says of
      Holderlin, Fichte, Hegel and the I AM.. that we discuss here so much.

      JST might be Japanese Standard Time:


      "30. Re: Hegel & Holderlin 12/09/2000

      Mr. Gxx's post about Hölderlin and his influence on the young
      Hegel, dated 11/30/2000 JST, was very instructive and I could
      willingly agree with him on the whole.
      In regard to Hölderlin (1770-1843, become insane in 1802 ) the
      letter from him to Hegel, dated 26 January in 1795, would be
      important. After introducing Fichte's just published "Foundations of
      the Entire Wissenschaftslehre," Hölderlin said:

      "The absolute I of Fichte, which is equal to Spinoza's substance,
      includes all reality. The absolute I is everything, and nothing is
      out of it. And there are no objects for it because, if there were
      any, it would not follow that all reality is in the absolute I."
      (from Japanese translation (1); I havenft got a copy of the original
      text. If anybody has it, please let me know the quoted original

      But Hölderlin was acutely aware of the difficulty such absolutism
      involves intrinsically. He wrote on:

      "It is, however, impossible that there were any consciousness
      without its objects. And if I myself am an object, I am necessarily
      finite as an object, exist only in Time, and I am not absolute. There
      is then no consciousness within the absolute I, and I as the absolute
      I have no consciousness. Without consciousness I would be nothing to
      myself and the absolute I too would be nothing to me."

      Unfortunately I don't know who was the first among Hegel,
      Hölderlin and Schelling to become aware of the difficulty above
      (maybe, Hölderlin?), but it is sure that the task of how to solve it
      played a central role in forming Hegelian philosophy.

      (*1) Friedrich Hölderlin, The complete works of Hölderlin, ed. Tomio
      Tezuka, trans. Kojima, 10th ed., vol. 4 (Tokyo: Kawaide Shobo
      Shinsha, 1991) 201.

      31. Re: Hegel & Hölderlin 12/15/2000

      Dear Mr. Gxx,

      Thank you very much for the Hölderlin's original text. (*1) And I
      sincerely appreciate your advice on my English translation.

      Your opinion in that post seemed right on the whole to me. You

      >> At the beginning of the Science of Logic he says: "Pure Being
      and pure Nothing is the same". There is no original ground. The whole
      is what the multitude (the finite self-consciousnesses as 'inherited'
      from Hölderlin) makes in its process of integration and
      disintegration that is in the process of the relationship between the
      particular and the universal of these particulars or in the process
      of acknowledgment (Phenomenology of Spirit).<<

      In order only to clarify the line of my thought, I would like to
      add that the "multitude" or "particular" is also nothing or ideal,
      that is, it does not exist by itself but receives its existence from
      the whole. And when the particular or the individual acknowledges
      that fact, there will be Reconciliation (Versöhnung) between the
      whole and it.

      As for Spirit you pointed out correctly:

      >> . . . the substance itself has become subjective: It is not the
      Kantian transcendental unity of the subject (the a priori of the
      objects) which has to become substantial (Fichte) but the substance
      we live in has to become subjective and - in this sense as Spirit -
      transcendental to itself.<<

      Here the word "subject" does not have the Kantian sense (as you
      said), but designates the movement of positing itself or "Spirit -
      transcendental to itself." Because the Hegelian Spirit includes all
      reality and is intersubjective, not like the Cartesian cogito, which
      lacks Nature (i.e., the material moment) and belongs only to the
      individual, it might be admitted that I call such Spirit the "world"
      Consequently the subjective substance means to me the world's
      movement of positing itself, or the meta-structure of the world.

      (*1) "Sein [Fichtes] absolutes Ich (=Spinozas Substanz) enthält alle
      Realität; es ist alles und außer ihm ist nichts. Es gibt also für
      dieses absolute Ich kein Objekt, denn sonst wäre nicht alle Realität
      in ihm; ein Bewußtsein ohne Objekt ist aber nicht denkbar, und wenn
      ich selbst dieses Objekt bin, so bin ich als solches notwendig
      beschränkt, sollte es auch nur in der Zeit sein, also nicht absolut.
      Also ist in dem absoluten Ich kein Bewußtsein denkbar, als absolutes
      Ich habe ich kein Bewußtsein, und insofern ich kein Bewußtsein habe,
      insofern bin ich (für mich) nichts, also das absolute Ich ist (für
      mich) Nichts."

      32. Re: Hegel & Hölderlin 12/20/2000

      As is well-known, Hegel's assertion: "Judgment [Urteil] is the
      original division [die ursprüngliche Teilung, das Ur-Teilen]. (1)" is
      first set forth by Hölderlin. I heard that the philosophical poet had
      put down that idea in a fragment. But I couldn't find it in the
      Japanese version of his complete works.

      If anybody in this list finds that fragment, I wish he or she may
      let me know its number and, if possible, the original text.

      Many thanks in advance. "

      Bradford comments;

      So Neoconservatism, Straussianism, Weimar and the location of Ahriman
      in Nietzsche's brain and our curreent studies in Ahrimanic
      Symptomology, reveal something of what the Michael School itself
      faces and must stand up for if it is to understand and maintain the I
      AM insights, that Steiner raised way above Fichte. If they thought,
      back then, that Fichte was a hot philospher, Steiner would blow the
      doors off the barn. But your problem, dear Newbie, is to feel, and
      discern both current and ancient streams of insight that swirl the in
      the soul life of our current duty with the Michael Time. Pardon, what
      appears to be obscurity and sideroads, indeed, they are not, but we
      must love both simplicity and complexity.

      Previously I had explored this same theme, in this way:

      "...Language and thought can
      be manipulated because untransformed, will, feeling and thought gives
      rise to prejudice, opinion and vast unconscious regions where inner
      discernment has failed to penetrate. It makes for a good command
      center. Our words can be easily manipulated to assume an I AM
      SPeaking, thinking Being, but all Nominally. Mask, upon mask veils
      the true I Am, but the Power and the Will appears to the soul to act
      through ideas that are sustenance and appears to be Self.

      Ancient Nominalism allowed for such a cutting away from sincerity and
      Logos Reality. We see that such a training in Nominalism was truly a
      passionate enemy...but how this has come down to the Science of Spin
      is really the Father of Lies, Ahriman, making food for its kingdom.
      He is a very good provider, and a God, that we see lets his children
      also speak the same language. Unable to see the roots of sincerity,
      the heart of true things, allows for Games of the Mind, Double Speak
      and Orwellian World rulership. Alien to the Logos, but lodged in the
      layers of the Intellectual Soul and Brain as a Kingdom, established
      through immense Karmic forces, lives this God.

      Steiner stood before Nietzsche..{Ravens just landed in my trees,
      three of them...true] one of the victims and a landing pad for
      Ahriman. Here we truly have a crop circle. The spiral hair and the
      head, and the interior thinking region of the brain, is truly an
      Alien landing pad.

      Mark Twain met this Ahrimanic force in his soul and it gives us, as a
      gift, the ability to see two sides of ourselves. Cool, detached, able
      to look at Suffering and death on News, night after night, fed and
      feeding something in us... We needed this detachment and this
      coldness.. but we also, as Steiner has indicated, need to be
      passionate for Truth.

      Ahriman offers a gift, but because the soul remains wrapped in an
      illusive sleep, it has no concepts to tell it that this is what I
      really think and this is what I really feel and these words, certain
      words, ring with Truth. Truth is unimportant to the long studied and
      Karmic Nominalist. But the human side cannot understand that it still
      seeks some form of truth, shallow, hollow and food for Arhiman. But
      Ahriman does not like this immense betrayal and weakness in humans,
      because its pathway back to the gods, must be transforming Death.
      Realists with strong Platonic ideals felt the Archetypes of the
      Universe shrivel and die in human brains... and Classic Insights,
      Troy, Odin, Ravens and the Gods themselves became, common place,
      dehyrdated, depleted, deflated and dead. This is not ultimately what
      any divine being craves, but it is the nature of this particualr god,
      not the god of Love and the I Am, but the god of detachment and death.

      So Karl Rove and many Spin Doctors, Rush L and certainly Rumsfeld,
      have adapted to the cunning world of Spin, of inherited Nominalism
      and indeed, an ancient Schoolman like Newt Gingrich, all stand before
      us today and it is not that they are not humans like us, but they are
      occupied territories. Their minds have for long time since, developed
      detachment and a belief in the world of emptiness and deception.

      This really goes down to the roots of goodness and God. The Father
      God, for one now can say, Lord and God and Father and Pray at
      stadiums and wish for the defeat of enemies...but it is indeed, and
      should come as no shock, that Ahriman has put himself in the mask of
      the I AM and acts like, pretends to be like and share identity with
      all that it appears to be, humanness. Because it walks on two legs,
      and says I, doesn't mean that the I has at least, Like St. Paul met
      the Living Essence of Truth.

      We can meet this Sense of Truth... along with the twelve senses,
      Sense of Word, Sense of Thought, Sense of I Am everyday, in the
      quality of the soul and thinking that arises in how the word, and
      soul is alive. But Deadness can go along way. Deadness is Tombs full
      of dead mens bones...and through education makes a man worse than if
      he had never been, Scribes and Pharisees, sepluchres full of dead
      mens bones... Deadness.. and the common use of dead words to mean
      dead things in a universe that Steiner warned, since the 15th
      century, we had to deal with this Deadness and be able to understand
      our two brains and the gift of detachment and Ahrimanic gifts and
      Ahrimanic deadly murder when the soul finally loses to deadness. We
      needed to encounter this as St. Paul needed to encounter it head on.
      Because than each person has a personal Death and Golgotha to deal

      But for us, it remains, slow death, and walking in a world that pays
      wages and offers jobs and human life...with Deadness. Certainly, when
      Danny talked about Holderlin and reconstructing the brain out of a
      kind of madness...The Poet who sensed Truth, kept the higher capacity
      of insight, by serving Poetic Realism...Myth, Gods and understanding
      with delicate intuition...but overwhelmed and outgunned Holderlin
      failed. Rebuilding the soul from the illness of Deadness to
      Resurrection is part of the most important Destiny gifts of Rudolf
      Steiner to humanity.


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