8830Re: [anthroposophy] Re: Ring and Cup, Tolkien & Wagner
- Jul 3, 2003Brilliant Joksu, Amazing Bradford, Lovely-sweet Jan(here is also found a reply to your ever pertinence - last post), dear Individualities from all parts of the world active(special 'Hi' to our new companions Maurice and Soledad) in Christ here manifested and gathered.
Our tone is Golden Right out of the Michael-mood, Spirit of our Time, Wonder and Elation; Present New Design!
Indeed active that we are, plain to see Fertile fact 'e-digits' precipitate of Spirit/daily food of togetherness, ever sharing the Communion; we read one another with warm interest, Fellowship-spirit of exploration; Heart, Wisdom, Lives and Intelligence with many faces, many pages here in multiple fashions(somehow New Paladins Congregation in a Banquet of Communication); how remove indeed from the Ahrimanic ever Legions of factions; rather dwelling in Affection, we cast into fetter, bind the Prince of this World, educate him to the better evolutionnary Earth's Meaning!
Found then is us in Talents-unfolding what we well recognize:
Our Work and Art is to Weave a higher perfection.
With ambition courageous,
Out of any 'momentaneous'
Source-arise-stir the Magic of all situations!
A moment always right, a combination of elements in perfect relation and involvement within the "Cosmic Pool"; all fluctuations speaking of the Diversity seen and known from within God also called Universe;
first principle methought, now uttering:
*EXISTENCE*, *I AM*.
"Be at Peace and know that I AM GOD"
Once heard a prophet...( most likely Moses ;)
And this new verse to add now from this same Source known to us from Christ; and so these
as One to us also say, for us to know; Father speaking through the Son, Creative Logos:
I "I AM" Gods!
Take the Impulse!
"And so they shall be called Son of God"...
And so from having seen in a Mirror at first the things to come, a VISION from Above; this Other TIME After Through Christ IN SPACE-CREATING WITH US a SUN, an another World, Divine, another Kingdom!
When the first Adam is laid on the Cross of Death, in trust of the Father we say: "take us into your arms, we have known your Son and this promise to us: Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my Name(LOVE) to you He shall provide"; shall arise this Abundant life out 'Heart Cry'-plea resounding in the Desert of the Lifeless Mineral Matter; heard then and sent to us this Answer WILLED, to and for us the Good Willed willing and participating in the Redemption:
The Immortal *New Man - New Adam* found in the Resurrection; Resurrection to the Pure Unfallen(Reversal/Turning Point of the Earth) Spiritual State; Christ in us, us in Christ; Friend-Masters of Transsubstantiation:
Victorious in 'WAY, TRUTH AND LIFE'!
In Priestly guise,
(Happen sometimes... ;)
P.S. to Maurice:
Dear sharp and appreciated one. Let me tell you regarding your "Valkyries/Steiner question", I happen to be way behind in what I call
"referencial athroposophical litteratures"...
Maybe Joksu or someone else will come up with what will most please you as an answer; to reply to this point referencial specificly asked, this myself I cannot do.
It is always nice to read about the news about and emanating from you and your section of the Earth.
Looking forward for more,
Hi Danny, dear Brother!
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, danifyou@t... wrote:
> Nice to see you back Joksu!
> (Hmm, have I said that before?...)
*** That might have happened a couple of times, but it is (again)
refreshing to read your "invitation". (It seems that a poetic soul
can, even from "vague messages", allways pick up something useful!)
> Well I heard a Ringing call; to be here with you talk. So here I am.
> I choose the Life-Spirit aspect of your post.
> Concerning-considering it as a Resurrection agent, a 'Stimulating'
opening wide to the Cosmos, a Force, I concur. This aspect of Man
methinks could well be described as Love as --> a Deeply Profound
> Spiritual/Religious experience in the Temple of Grace. This Seed
aspect just as you speak act as in us as a lasting echo of
Transformative Homeopathic touch.
Yes, it is fine that you pointed out the "Love-aspect". A spiritual
teacher said once that we can get the seed to our resurrection (or
transfiguration) body from Jesus Christ, but that seed is then
nurtured by the loving thoughts and feelings of our fellow men.
Mankind forms a unity and love is the "cement" which keeps us all
together. I think that it was St. Paul who said something like "we
are all members in the body of Christ".
Great responsibilities and great possibilities are bestowed upon us
humans. In this context it is easier to understand, why Dr. Steiner
said that if we take one step "in knowledge", we should take
three "ethical steps". Also some kind of antidote to modern
materialistic thinking can be found from the advice, that we must
learn to think with our heart.
(So, keep going on your hearty and poetic "track", Danny! Maybe some
day I manage to write my first poem in this incarnation?)
> For the thing is that Life-Spirit is not really something we 'Use';
rather, is, as I would for now describe it first-hand first time,
perhaps not perfectly right; an imprint arising from Christ and
a "Choir" out of the Warm-Sound filled worlds(correct me if and where
I'm found wrong with this immediate last description; something more
precise is also desirable; as in who(Hierarchical "Presidency" and
intrinsic means of action found in Entelechial Sovereignty-Ruling
Prniciples) does what(Process) and out of what(Worlds, Sheaths)[This
is really a Science to be studied with the help of Rudy!],
an 'Experience', an 'Event' occur in you, but you do not work, as in
process-activate 'Employ' the Life-Spirit, it is bestow upon you, Ô
Moral one of the Highest kind... ;)
> Go now in Peace dear once under the fig tree Joksu...
> But come back later though ;)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: joksu57<jouko.sorvali@k...>
> Hello Listmates!
> There are many interesting discussions going on the list and it
> hard to remain silent when the word "Ring" is mentioned. So maybe
> is a good moment for me to "wake up" from my "summer-hibernation"
> (mental activity is much easier for me, when it's cold and
> dark "outside", and there's plenty of "it" here in Finland!) and
> to make some comments abouts these interesting subjects.
> The incident in the Lord of the Rings where Frodo must destroy the
> Ring and he is unable to drop it, has allways made a great impact
> me. Then Gollum appers on the scene and with his help the mission
> accomplished. Earlier in the book Gollums life is spared, even
> he poses a dire threat to the ringbearers. So there is
> reason why Gollum is not killed.
> I think that these passeges can give a hint towards a new attitude
> concerning evil. When Gollums life is spared, then it is eventually
> through karma that the Ring is destroyed. It is also very important
> that the Ring is not used. The Ring means personal power and
> eventually all power belongs to God. One must also learn to give
> personal karma "to the hand of Christ".
> I cannot think Tolkien's Ring without connections to Wagner's "Ring-
> cycle". Niebelungen's Ring has many same qualities than "Tolkiens
> Ring". Only the ahrimanic figure Alberich can use it to his
> (getting gold&power); to others it means only disaster. In the last
> opera of the Ring-cycle (Götterdämmerung) the Ring is returned to
> waves of Rhein. Through water (feeling, love) can the curse be
> away (Alberich placed a curse on the Ring, when it was taken from
> him). In the same time Valhalla is burning. Valhalla is some sort
> of "warrior's heaven" and a very respected "place" during the time
> the Old Covenant. But after the Christ Event we have got higher
> ideals, so Wagner had very accurate insights in his operas (not in
> his writings, though). This is also a proper time to remember what
> Bradford has posted on this list about Mars, Buddha , St. Fransis
> the "after-death" states..
> Wagner didn't stop his "story" there, when the Ring was returned to
> Rhein and Rheinmaidens. The next "evolutionary phase" of the
> Rheingold can be seen in Wagner's last opera, Parsifal. (Originally
> the Ring was forged from the Rheingold by Alberich, when he
> love. In some sense the gold can be treated as the spiritual
> potential of mankind.) The Chalice of Grail is the next phase of
> Rheingold. When the Cup becomes empty, it can be filled with the
> of Christ. This is the "final" redemption to Alberich's curse, when
> he renounced love to get personal power.
> Still a few words about the Grail legend. It is said that from the
> crown of Lucifer a diamond fell, and out of it the chalice (Grail)
> was made. Now Lucifer brings to my mind "manas". We can think about
> the teaching that redeemed Lucifer is the Holy Ghost. Crown is
> something that is above the head. And what is above Lucifer
> It is of course buddhi (life-spirit). So Grail is connected to the
> Christ Event and buddhi; it is linked to some kind of "Christ-
> According Dr. Steiner we can get a "seed" to our resurrection body
> from Christ Jesus, and I think that this life-spirit is an
> factor in the resurrection body.
> I am sorry if this text is "too compact"; I'm no "wizard of words"
> like our friend Bradford. But I hope that some ideas are
> understandable, even if they are presented in a "rudimentary" form.
> Warm Regards: Joksu
> P.S: Warm congratulations to Bradford and Tara!
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