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8439: Re: Anthroposophical Angle on Christianity

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  • DRStarman2001@aol.com
    May 3, 2003
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      ******But actually pure thinking, reasoning about whatever you observe, IS carried over into the body-free state. It's a falsehood that our thinking is only good for sense-perceptible objects: it is good for anything observed, through any senses, including those of the soul and the spirit. When the self is separated from the physical body, it does indeed use reason--- only pure reason, pure thinking, as in mathematics and geometry, not the mere 'having of thought-images' that most people use in daily life, which is dependent on the body.
      -Starman


      >>That was great ( about the Rosicrucian Path and the blending of East and West in some "eastern approaches" now in use. But I have a question about this below.Can you or Steiner or someone else describe exactly how pure thinking and reason are actually experienced in the the out of body condition. Do we think and form words like here on earth? Descriptions I have run across state that as "travelers" think, it instantly manifests around them. Telepathy is natural and seeing the reading the minds of others equally so.
      What is your knowledge here? How do we learn to "think" and reason in this new state?
      Lee

      *******Pure thinking is the same. Even most mathematicians here are on earth are able to stay in such a state of pure thinking for only brief periods of time, unfortunately; but it IS thinking with the human spirit you are doing then, and this is the same as your consciousness when the spirit is outside of the body. What it's conscious OF is what changes, and it changes depending on the plane of consciousness you go to. It's not experienced in words, but in pure thinking, which is "behind" words, so to speak.

          Mathematical thinking is self-regulating, that is, nothing outside of my self forces me to recognize the truth of straight lines or triangles: I have this desire for truth, and recognition that I must think truthfully in order to attain it, as my inner guide. Similarly, when you have an inner need for truthfulness in your thinking--- as opposed to an egotistic need to have whatever you have to say paid attention to, regardless of whether it's correct or not (as most human beings in the present manifest before they start on the path of initiation)---this habit of checking your thinking and making sure it is correct is carried into your soul and spirit organism. Since it's an inner habit, it applies to your thinking regardless of the object.

         On the first plane you enter when you become free of the body, this is all-important, because there you find what you describe, namely that, whatever you think immediately appears to take form all around you. It's been called the Plane of Illusion; I call it the plane of wishful thinking. Fantasy has its origin here. In order to pass through it you have to be conscious that you are creating the fantasies, have to see through them to the part of you that is creating them. This is one of the reasons why art is so important on the spiritual path. Where most artists will simply picture whatever archetypes live in their consciousness, however, instead you must learn to see the archetypes themselves, and you see them as beings which are, so to speak, THINKING IN YOU. This is why objectivity, being able to stand apart from your own thinking, is required. You see what can be called the "thought beings" that ordinarily manifest through your thinking. You experience thinking as something happening in you, not something you do personally. You could say that you find out that you have never been a single unitary being, but rather the intersection of many planes, that other beings live within you.

         This is how other beings are experienced once you are able to pass through this plane of illusion, not as beings outside of you, but that they are within you and you are within them--- if you have done the exercises to strengthen the ego and your feeling of sympathy with others to the point where you can allow your self to experience them without losing yourself. Communication with other beings is experienced as coming from within, not from without. Naturally, once again, the resisting of illusions is all-important, because it's always possible to make fantasy images appear to speak (as in the case of so-called 'mystics' with their 'visions' which, strangely, always just happen to confirm the person's religious dogmas). It's difficult to put into words what experiences are like on the second and third planes, where the dead can be contacted, for instance, but it's what Steiner is hinting at when he says that a person in his life was supposed to write something, but he didn't and now Steiner is writing it for him. You contact the creative essence of a person, not just their outer personality. It involves deep levels of yourself and is a very intimate matter, which is why I seldom speak of it, but I recognize what Steiner meant because I have passed through my own experience of it. Remember, we are not only intellects, but powerful will-drives, so communication with other beings is not just like 'hearing their thoughts'.

         In fact, thoughts themselves are experienced completely differently when out of the body. One way I could express it is that instead of, "I'm thinking this thought", you experience "This thought being wants to think in me." And rather like you recognize someone else is also an American or an English-speaking person, you will recognize that this or that thought being also is speaking in another person. Persons are seen to be the channels for thought beings, to be, so to speak, "possessed" by them. This is all to be found in Dr. Steiner's lectures, but you need to walk the path in order to recognize what he was experiencing. When he spoke, it was these very creative thought beings speaking through him. They are a source that you contact, with your whole being. See, for example, the lectures on "Occult Reading and Occult Hearing" and the ones on "Human and Cosmic Thought."

         For people just beginning, what I recommend are the thinking exercises, like the 'ruckschau' or daily review of your actions, along with simply recording your dreams. Don't speculate on their meanings, but simply start be able to remember "I experienced this, I remember observing that." I have found that materialism is progressing so far that many people cannot even remember their dream experiences, which are your first undisciplined experiences of the astral plane. As you take up esoteric training, your self-consciousness which is having your dreams will begin to change their character, and until that happens, their content is not worth very much in itself (see the chapter on Transformation of Dream Life in Knowledge of the Higher Worlds)--- but I meet so many people that have no recall whatsoever of even the tiniest fraction of their nightly journey on the astral plane these days that I have to emphasize the importance of doing so. Modern man has been cut off from his intuitive mind, the mind of the soul, but all of us still have that as a starting point every night, among others.

      -Starman
      http://www.DrStarman.net
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