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5804R: [anthroposophy] Re: thanks, bruce/breaking blood ties

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  • Sören Groth
    Nov 4, 2002
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      --- In anthroposophy@y..., "VALENTINA BRUNETTI" <okcgbr@t...> wrote:
      > Dear Soren,
      > here I have to disagree.
      > The "healthy impulse" lies in the Socialistic non-marxist stream of XIX
      > Century:

      My statement was a very condensed thought... and you put it right.. I
      didn't mean the impulses of Marx and Lenin was healthy social
      impulses, but that they made ideology of healthy social impusles...
      Some get the idea that Karl Marx sat down and invented communism, and
      then a lot of people got their social impulses from Marx's thoughts
      (Which Steiner says is interesting as it is the first ideology based
      on total abstract thinking) ... Lenin further twisted things around as
      he wanted to adjust Marxism into fitting a historical event that
      according to marxism wasn't at all the revolution that should give
      marxists the leading role.. Lenin didn't made the russian revolution,
      the people did top get rid of the czar, the people started organising,
      when the "great october revolution" .. which simply was a coup taking
      over the already succesfull revolution...
      The main point is that as marxism is total abstaction which apparently
      talk about real social impulses, it is non-vital, it's vitality lies
      in the oppsosition to capitalism, but as it in itself only is an
      abstaction of capitalism, it contains nothing transcending from it's
      role as opposition.... The marxist-leninist state was in fact only
      succesfull in becoming a succesfull trust, not a community, but a
      monopolised company with bad management principles... as libertarian
      socialists call marxism: statecapitalism, the state become the sole
      capitalist. And a company runned by ineffective management ideology
      will have shortened lifelength... it has no own vitality.
      The problem is that marxism have had a monopoly on many issues, the
      ideology have overshadowed the real impulses, so now people can't see
      the impulses but see the ideology ....
      Well as some post said the "marxist" language of Steiner in some texts
      should be to adjust to a special situation.... but he emphasized often
      not to neglect the real impulses in the proletarian movement .. In
      adressing this movement he "spoke" their language.... but when
      adressing the "inner circle" he often said things like this:

      "If one would understand, what was intended with this book for the
      foundation of the ethical individualism, for the foundation of a
      social and a political life, if one correctly would have understood,
      what was meant with this book, then one would know: There are means
      and ways, to lead the development of mankind today into fruitful
      courses, other means and ways, as it would be the wrongest, if one
      only turn into: simply to grumble about the radical parties to only
      grumble and tell anecdotes about that Bolshevism. - it would be sadly,
      if the middle class don't overcome, only to interest itself with, what
      the Bolsheviks made here and there, and how they act against this or
      that persons; because it's not the reality. What matters, is that one
      really studied, which in a certain sense entitled demands rise from a
      side there. And can one find a worldview and a view of life, that may
      dare to say: _ What you want with your imperfect means, this will you
      attain and still much other, if you go the way, which is registered
      here -, if one may dare to say that - and I am convinced of the fact
      that,one may say that when permeated by the "philosophy of the
      liberty",- then a light would be.


      Würde man verstehen, was mit diesem Buche gewollt war für die
      Grundlegung des ethischen Individualismus, für die Grundlegung eines
      sozialen und eines politischen Lebens, würde man richtig verstanden
      haben, was mit diesem Buche gemeint war, dann würde man wissen: Es
      gibt Mittel und Wege, die Menschheitsentwickelung heute in fruchtbare
      Bahnen zu leiten, andere Mittel und Wege, als es der falscheste wäre,
      den man nur einschlagen könnte: bloß zu schimpfen über die radikalen
      Parteien, bloß zu schimpfen und Anekdoten zu erzählen über den
      Bolschewismus. - Es wäre traurig, wenn das Bürgertum nicht darüber
      hinauskäme, sich nur dafür zu interessieren, was die Bolschewiken da
      und dort gemacht haben, wie sie sich gegen diese und jene Leute
      benehmen; denn das trifft nichts in Wirklichkeit. Dasjenige, um was es
      sich handelt, ist, daß man wirklich studiert, welche in einem gewissen
      Sinne berechtigte Forderungen sich da von einer Seite erheben. Und
      kann man eine Weltanschauung und eine Lebensauffassung finden, welche
      zu sagen wagen darf: Dasjenige, was ihr wollt mit euren unvollkommenen
      Mitteln, erlangt ihr, wenn ihr den Weg, der hier verzeichnet wird,
      geht, und noch vieles andere -, wenn man wagen darf, das zu sagen -
      und ich bin überzeugt davon, daß, wenn man durchdrungen ist von der
      «Philosophie der Freiheit», man das sagen darf -, dann würde sich ein
      Licht finden."

      GA 185 From Symptom to Reality in Modern History - 6th Lecture

      Don't see Karl Marx, and miss the reality behind which has nothing at
      all with Marx, or Engels or Lenin or Stalin to do ... but real social
      impulses among real people.
      Why did Steiner withfdrew from the threefolding as massmovement after
      1919 - because it ended in discussions, and different leaders of
      ideological fractions concerned to loose control... Steiner says to
      the workers at big factories in Stuttgart, "we don't need further
      clarification, what is needed is that as many as possible go on the
      street and demand this now", as Steiner represents a more radical view
      than the socialdemocratic government ... threefolding is no utopia,
      it's a revolution.. an unfinished revolution. (the word revolution not
      meaning bloodshed and destruction.. it can be peacefull :))

      By the way I like Thomas Jefferson, and one of my favourite movies is
      "Mr Smith goes to Washington" :-)

      > My point here again being a choise between two evils of Dominance and
      > Destruction, were I see that marxism-leninism was a non-vital ideology
      > of healthy social impulses, while nazism was a vital ideology of
      > unhealthy social impulses ....
      >
      > Sören
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