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5792R: [anthroposophy] Re: thanks, bruce/breaking blood ties

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    Nov 3, 2002
      Dear Soren,
      here I have to disagree.
      The "healthy impulse" lies in the Socialistic non-marxist stream of XIX
      Century: Marx and most of all Lenin perverted it, Stalin changed it at all ,
      transforming it through the forces of the Asiatic stream of Third Age
      From a philosophical-cultural standpoint Marx did turn upside-down the
      Hegel's "Dialectics of Spirit" ( a wholly-rationalistic Spirit, indeed) in a
      "Dialectics of Matter" based on Fuherbach's "animal-man" seen as an actual
      epiphenomenon of the Economy's process.
      Lenin used this materialistic soup mixing it up with his "realpolitik"
      issues feed by his astonishing power of being a "mass leader".
      From an occult esoteric standpoint, you have only to take a look, among
      hundreds examples, to the lecture Steiner gave on 1923,June 15 (GA 225)
      where he depicts Bolshevism as a terrible moulding of "spiritual corpse
      impulses" from the past (Shamanism and dying Western rationalism) building
      like an horrible "occult carpet" on eastern Europe.
      But if we try to take a all-encompassing look on the XX Century History we
      see three main "streams of Evil" working together .
      From the West: the "Lodges" ( and we have,now, a USA President nourished and
      nurtured just in this milieu...)
      From the Centre: Nazi , and we are able to see, on a side,the unexpected
      secret paths that - just they did in 1802's Kaspar Hauser plot- through
      Vatican's permission , allowed catholic Von Papen to join Hitler, and on the
      other side the continue financial help flowing from Western Bankers
      (Schroeder,Warburg,Wassermmann etc) and Corporate (IBM ) to Nazi.
      From the East: We all know Steiner's statement about the Lodges planning
      Esatern europe as "Socialistic attempts land".
      In 1917 we see German's general Ludendorff and Hinderburg (they'll have
      also a big part in Hitler's forthcoming fortunes) let Lenin going east in
      order to destroy Zar's Empire, In the same year Jew-American Banker Jakob
      Schiff gave "whole lotta money" to Trockij in order to get weapons for the
      Red-Army_in progress. Lenin was nourished also by Hammer-Harriman
      political-commercial plots and so on.

      The aim was the destruction of a free Central Europe spiritual development.
      We all are paying, here and now, the price of the above said plots.


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Sören Groth <sgroth@...>
      To: <anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 7:45 PM
      Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: thanks, bruce/breaking blood ties

      --- In anthroposophy@y..., "Bradford Riley" <holderlin66@h...> wrote:
      > From: LilOleMiss <lilolemiss@i...>

      > in your family, within yourself... and then turn around and move
      > outwards, when you dare to fght this cosmic battle in yourself and see
      > what happens in your family in your neighbourhoos in your community ..
      > The more people who can embrace their individual freedom and face the
      > consequences the less outer Dominance and Destruction will we face
      > It's out there for us to see it in ourselves :-) The more we see it
      > there and deal with it there,
      > Soren
      > Bradford comments;
      > Sheila has it right.

      Well actually I was answering another part of Sheila's statement, but
      beside of that, there's a point where I to a certain extend see
      Sheila's right, or as Andrea put it, sometimes we have to choose the
      lesser evil, "good" is not an realistic option... That's also why I
      stop the outward individual action of non-violent justice at the
      communitylevel as an possible option for the individual ...
      At a national - international level I see that the "evil's" of
      Dominance and Destruction sometimes is the onliest options available,
      and all I can do is to adress sentiments.. just because it's necessary
      to have power and destructive means don't mean we have to be
      sympathetic about it. There's a little "dragon" hidden there :-)
      And as one isn't symphatetic it's easily played into being antipathic
      "If you're not with us you are against us" ...
      I try to be observant without antipathy or sympathy .. not objective,
      meaning just an observer leaving the scene - more like participating
      objectivism. Some interventions are necessary .. the bombing of
      Afghanistan .. Iraq should have been finished job 10 years ago ...
      Serbia ... Dominance and Destruction, but accepted by most as being
      the lesser evil ... Accepted by the people of Afghanistan and most
      people in Serbia ..
      But being to sympathetic and proud - and on the other side afraid of
      the antipathic sentiments, leave a lot of questions unattended.. To be
      forced to choose Dominance and Destruction have it's price, and with
      empathy it is possible to see it, too ... The brave soldier fighting
      for freedom is one, and indeed also a true one, picture of the story..
      The price, all the soldiers suffering from PTSD another... To deny the
      existence of this in pride over being Dominant and Destructive on the
      lesser "evil" side, is a darkness, a tumour that eat from the inside.
      As I work with a person who suffer from PTSD, it has caught my
      interest, and just saw a study, that of 2 million US soldiers in the
      Vietnam War.. 50000 died in battle .. afterwards 100000 have committed
      suicide and about 900000 still suffer from PTSD ... Just saw the first
      "Rambo" movie yesterday .. even bad movies have their points, and in
      fact the end of it is pretty well illustrating PTSD ... and how many
      have been killed by the "enemy" inside after the war... Veterans going
      nuts ... Well now recently there's even been the Gulf War vets ...

      And a lot of events seen from a sympathetic antipathic view, makes one
      miss the real events... the generic view of Soviet as the evil empire,
      true only to the extend that the leading ideology marxism-leninism
      there really is a pest (but when Hitler were in action, Roosevelt had
      the courage to choose the lesser "evil" Stalin from the bigger "evil"
      Hitler).. the immense suffering of the russian people was totally
      neglected in our minds... England, France, the US had their fight with
      Hitler, but the russian people were the ones really taking the pain...
      And actually the Eastern European Soviet Control was more a "russian"
      than a "communist" project ... if one dare to see this without
      sympathetic-antipathic googles on. Nothing to be happy about ... but I
      do remind from travels in Slovakia in the early 90'ties that all
      monuments of the communist era was taken away, excpet the ones
      thanking the red army for throwing Hitler out .... after all as the
      reality was a choice between 40 years of communism or Hitler winning
      the war...
      My point here again being a choise between two evils of Dominance and
      Destruction, were I see that marxism-leninism was a non-vital ideology
      of healthy social impulses, while nazism was a vital ideology of
      unhealthy social impulses ....


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