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3703R: R: [anthroposophy] the book

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  • VALENTINA BRUNETTI
    May 5 10:49 AM
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      Sheila,
      first of all I I'm not interested neither in your harsh judgement about Joel
      nor in the fact that BB has or not to leave the list.
      I just replied to Joel's question if someone read Gordienko's book about
      Prokofieff and I cannot really understand your mad reaction about it!
      You have the right to believe that "Prokofieff is an excellent choice for
      Vorstand" .
      You haven't the right to insult who thinks differently abou the same matter.
      Andrea


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: SheilaP <Sheila_P@...>
      To: <anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 4:39 PM
      Subject: Re: R: [anthroposophy] the book


      > Dear Andrea,
      >
      > It seems BB is no longer a member of this mailing list, which is not
      > surprising, considering the treatment she received beginning with the said
      > Joel Wendt [an admirer and follower of the Black Magician, Franz Barton,
      not
      > to mention Tomberg and Powell, yet who has not "ever really read Steiner"
      > according to his own words] effectively "deciding" for her in public she
      had
      > not read Prokofieff's book but was discussing it from a "position of
      > ignorance." Wendt requires acute therapy in Anthroposophy [or human
      decency]
      > 101, as does the anonymous luciferius. Is this an Anthroposophical
      mailing
      > list, or is it a "club" for battering new seekers? I only see evidence of
      > the latter. As one of those who worked with David Heaf, Steve Usher, et al
      > in IAA, I well know Prokofieff [an excellent choice for the Vorstand] and
      > his work plus his book [with your "kernel" and "thorny question"] as well
      as
      > "the entire world of the GAS," and I can well see why there are such
      paltry
      > and self-serving correspondences taking place on this list, erroneously
      > entitled "anthroposophy." Steiner would be horrified but not surprised.
      Why
      > doesn't Wendt and Loki-luciferius speak up again in their cruelty rather
      > than cowering under the flooring? Do they need you to continue the
      > persecution and expulsion of BB from a sacred circle? I gladly leave all
      of
      > you your self-defined exclusiveness and self-importance.
      >
      > With Disgust and a relieved farewell,
      >
      > Sheila Pickerill
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "VALENTINA BRUNETTI" <okcgbr@...>
      > To: <anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 4:25 AM
      > Subject: R: R: [anthroposophy] the book
      >
      >
      > > Dear BB,
      > > the "kernel" in this topic lies not in the fact the I or anybody also
      can
      > > agree on not with your statements about this or that matter. Joel asked
      > us
      > > to discuss a book .
      > > This book carries on core questions not only about a single person,
      > > Prokofieff, but also about the entire world of GAS, Prokofieff being a
      > > prominent Vorstand's member. So I really believe that anybody interested
      > > about it has only to read the book and after doin'so he will be able to
      > > discuss about a real thorny question.
      > >
      > > Andrea
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: Bayou Blue <BayouBlue@...>
      > > To: <anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 4:35 PM
      > > Subject: Re: R: [anthroposophy] the book
      > >
      > >
      > > > Dear Andrea,
      > > >
      > > > hmmm - no, I haven't read Gordienko's book - uh - now I'm not sure
      what
      > to
      > > > think here: I either should have read it or my statement "much wisdom"
      > > isn't
      > > > deserved while a description of "cynical" might be? Tell me which? Oh,
      > > well,
      > > > there's wisdom in all things, whether positive or negative. At least
      > > > luciferius answered when no one else would, and that's a plus! Thank
      > you,
      > > > Andrea.
      > > >
      > > > BB
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Only a question,
      > > > > have you read Gordienko's book ?
      > > > > Andrea
      > > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > > From: Bayou Blue <BayouBlue@...>
      > > > > To: <anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 2:08 AM
      > > > > Subject: Re: R: [anthroposophy] the book
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > > Dear luciferius,
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Thank you for your Gordienko quote, which holds much wisdom. In my
      > > reply
      > > > > to
      > > > > > Morgan's thoughts, I was essentially asking questions, which
      > > apparently
      > > > > were
      > > > > > overlooked or not comprehended and thus left unanswered. Perhaps I
      > > > didn't
      > > > > > phrase my meanings clearly enough? As already stated, I agree
      with
      > > > > Morgan's
      > > > > > assessment of Prokofieff's holy nights work, and in fact greatly
      > > admire
      > > > > > Prokofieff himself, feeling perhaps he isn't appreciated as fully
      as
      > > he
      > > > > well
      > > > > > deserves. His so astute words regarding criticism seemed to me
      > > > > > overwhelmingly important, thus my questions which seem to have
      > > elicited
      > > > no
      > > > > > reply. When one considers how our own times are increasingly
      > plunging
      > > > into
      > > > > > darkness in large part due to conscious or unconscious
      > non-recognition
      > > > of
      > > > > > criticism per se, I felt it a valid exploration.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Best,
      > > > > >
      > > > > > BB
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > > > From: "luciferius2002" <luciferius2002@...>
      > > > > >
      > > > > > > Any attempt to criticise such printed assertions is
      > > > > > > condemned out of a false ethical principle: tolerance
      > > > > > > towards a person is confused with tolerance of his
      > > > > > > mistakes. The ideal of brotherly love comes to mean
      > > > > > > little more than the maintaining of "diplomatic
      > > > > > > relations" with one's neighbour, while remaining
      > > > > > > indifferent to his spiritual destiny.
      > > > > > > (Gordienko, pgs.13-14)
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > --- In anthroposophy@y..., "Bayou Blue" <BayouBlue@p...> wrote:
      > > > > > > > Dear Morgan and All,
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > I must agree with your assessment below. Even in his very
      basic
      > > > > > > book,
      > > > > > > > *Knowledge of the Higher Worlds and its Attainment*, Steiner
      > > speaks
      > > > > > > of how
      > > > > > > > much criticism exists, even among our children. What are we
      > > > > > > teaching and
      > > > > > > > developing? Clear thinking? Compassion? Tolerance?
      > Understanding?
      > > > > > > Knowledge?
      > > > > > > > Anthroposophical thoughts? Perhaps one should stop and ponder
      a
      > > bit
      > > > > > > on these
      > > > > > > > aspects?
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > BB
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > Although this isn't the question being asked, I found
      > > > > > > Prokofieff's book on
      > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > Holy Nights very helpful to inspire both my nightly drawings
      > and
      > > > > > > > subsequent
      > > > > > > > > dreaming.
      > > > > > > > > It is disturbing to see how eagerly human beings leap to
      > > > > > > criticize.
      > > > > > > > > I do agree that his 'forte' might be leaning toward the
      > > > > > > Intellectual Soul,
      > > > > > > > but
      > > > > > > > > it would seem more interesting to discern his place on the
      > > > > > > Vorstand and
      > > > > > > > what
      > > > > > > > > its function is.
      > > > > > > > > The transition to Consciousness Soul is not an easy one.
      Even
      > > > > > > the move to
      > > > > > > > > 'know' a man by reading someone's opinion of him from a book
      > is
      > > an
      > > > > > > > Intellectual
      > > > > > > > > Soul impulse.
      > > > > > > > > Consciousness Soul strives for the 'Big Picture.'
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > Blessings on your investigation,
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > Morgan Vierheller
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
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