2018Re: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being Exchange
- Oct 3, 2001pacbay@... writes:
<< Are there not more interesting subjects to discuss???
*******Than the answer to the UFO enigma and what it reveals about the other
dimensions of living beings alongside us? Well, you're welcome to not discuss
it. Constable and his work based on Steiner has solved the mystery, and had
it duplicated; see the most recent edition of "The Cosmic Pulse of Life",
1990, published by the Borderland Sciences Research Foundation.
>>>My position.... is as follows:There are physical visitors in physical crafts visiting our planet from
other physical planets outside of our solar system....
*******And your evidence? There have never been any physical artifacts found
that science shows are of extraterrestrial origin as with the Mars
meteorites. If you have some, show the scientists. If there is none, that's
very signficant--- because with thousands of UFO reports annually, how could
physical vehicles not leave even one? Instead, what has been observed
repeatedly with a 'substance' left behind like the so-called 'angel hair,
that, some is taken and put in a jar, and it slowly dematerializes right in
the sealed jar. Such accounts are found several times in the UFO literature,
and are very telling---they do NOT point to a physical phenomena.
>>> There are non physical "craft" or vehicles that exit interdimensionallyand are not physical as we know it. These get confused with physical ones.
These craft can manifest as distinct "metallic shapes" apart from the "blobs"
identified by Reich and other bio-orgone theorists....
*******If you mean Constable, his photos do not show 'blobs' but highly
articulated giant single-celled organisms. You attempt to have it both ways
here makes no sense. If something enters our dimension and becomes able to be
photographed, how is it not 'physical'? How does it 'get confused' with
physical ones? They just happen to have the same shapes? That's a pretty
far-fetched coincidence, that there are these physical circular ships coming
from other solar systems and ALSO circular ones from another dimension (see
photo of one attached).
>>> There are beings that are far craftier than humans that use etheric andmental technologies to deceive researchers and conventional men or women into
believing certain ufo experiences. These beings do not belong our solar
evolution and are not connected with Ahrimanic stream (though they may
interact or be using each other)
*******They're crafty deceivers but are not Ahrimanic beings? Then what are
they, and why are they deceptive?? And how are they related to your other 2
>> There are too many sightings monthly to pooh pooh them all and label themas hallucinations or mental aberrations.
*******Which no one here did.
>>Most researchers agree that at 10% are unexplainable and many have physicalattributes and are not projections of the witnesses.
*******But of course a materializing elemental being would not be.
>>> For some reason there are gaps and a lack of forthcoming knowledge ofthis phenomena from occult sources. Why I do not know but post modern (after
1950) information cannot be used to explain this phenomena entirely. And that
goes for Steiner and other esotericists.
That's all folks.
*******No, Jeff, you're not on your list now and so that's NOT all. Just
because you think anthroposophy, because Steiner died in 1925, can't be used
to understand phenomena that began a few years after his death, doesn't mean
everyone has to agree with you. He spoke of seeing bell-shaped astral forms
in the atmosphere and he spoke of the Ahrimanic deception and how it would
take over our science. Trevor Constable's work is a landmark acheivement,
using Steiner and Wachsmuth and Wilhelm Reich and Radionics to create a true
scientific discovery of the elementals and make them visible. His showing
that the alleged physical craft are elementals made to appear that way as
part of the Ahrimanic deception is just as important.
>>>I am tired of talking to a "ghost thinker" who is not open to any possibility other than a strictly "spiritual" and psychic interpretation.<<
******* 'Tired of talking' to us, meaning you have no interest in anyone's
opinion but your own. And so, everyone who wishes to consider a possible
spiritual dimension of any phenomema is to be dismissed as a 'ghost thinker'?
Hey Jeff, have you ever heard of a guy named Steiner? Boy, you wouldn't like
him either, then. He was dismissed with the same epithet by Lyndon LaRouche,
I believe, Jeff, it is you who is showing yourself not open to
possibilities. It is certainly peculiar how you avoid discussion of all the
points raised that show that these things materialize and then dematerialize,
and call the assertion that they do so a 'psychic' theory, once again showing
you think only in 2 categories: 1.)physical or 2.)non-physical, and never the
twain shall meet. It is interesting from a Reichian perspective, but never
mind that for now.
>>>Now I guess there are three categories- skeptical scientists,proponents, and psychic theorists...
'Proponents' of what? I assume you mean the ships-from-other-planets
theory. So to think about UFOs you have to be a proponent of that. I see.
So, are Jacques Vallee and J. Allen Hynek, both of whom wrote
extensively about UFOs as a para-physical phenomenon because of the observed
materializations and dematerializations, to be classed as 'psychic
theorists'? Interesting dualism, but neither man argued that the phenomenon
is only immaterial, as for some strange reason you feel motivated to ascribe
to us here.
>>>As mentioned in earlier posts with other AP and metaphysical proponents,there is just no way non physical beings can demonstrate the physical
characteristics now being videotaped worldwide...
*******Jeff, we don't seem to be getting through to you. Do you think a
'ghost' that can become dense enough to show up on a photograph is ALWAYS
that densely physical? You seem to have a real problem conceiving that
something can become physical (materialize) and then go back again
(de-materialize)---I don't know why, with all the Star Trek-type stuff you
accept. For you, it has to be either physical OR non-physical, no possible
>>>( or in possession of the govt. That the US govt, England, Russia, andpossibly other military branches have hard evidence is beyond question from
eyewitness reports and actual work on such projects...
*******It is certainly questionable, all the so-called 'evidence' being
produced having come from people who never worked at the military facilities
they claimed they saw things at (hoaxsters, nuts, etc.)
>>>... thousands have witnessed disc and bell shaped objects and many haveclearly videotaped them while standing on a crowded street with hundreds
watching the same event. This objects reflect the sunlight off their
surfaces, have shape, stay in view for 15 to 30 minutes, hover, go slowly
forward or backwards, disappear in an instant only to suddenly reappear, etc.
Jet fighters have flown by them as well.
******See above to avoid repeating the (to others) obvious.
One thing: if you can only imagine these as physical
ships-from-other-planets, how do you imagine that they 'instantly disappear
and then reappear', hmmm?
>>>Now if these were etheric or astral ships intruding into our atmosphere,the power of these beings must be great indeed to project into physical
reality for many minutes at an event.<<
*******Yes. Is that beyond imagining for some reason?
>>>Nothing in the past annuals of esoteric or religious literature hasindicated such an intrusion into dense material reality.
*******Interesting assertion. What basis do you have for it? The White
Brotherhood, of course, form bodies for themselves which last for years if
needed. Do you recall how Babaji materialized an entire temple for Lahira
Mahasaya to be initiated in in Autobiography Of A Yogi? Or how about the
'tulpa' or thought-form monk Lady Alexandra David-Neel materialized as
described in her Magic and Mystery in Tibet? There's much other evidence that
needs to be summarily dismissed to avoid what Constable proved using etheric
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 10:55 AM
Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being Exchange
"Ship" does convey the dense idea of mode of travel because of our
I beleive humanity, from all the planets of the solar system and
maybe beyond, shares the condition of objectivity. Individuals have
senses more or less projected outwardly -- an "I" aware of the
physical surroundings and subjected to it by its physical, etheric
and astral body. In this view, human beings not from Earth must use
tools, such as ways of transportation, but surely not in the way NASA
suggests. Probably more in etheric and elemental ways. Their
relationship with the objective world must be tied in and felt at a
deep inner level. Astral travel, without any outward support than
from the beings's own energy must be conceived as well.
> A very interesting idea. I don't think these fellows are coming
over from these planets in "ships" but may be interacting in other
elemental and etheric ways. There is a notion in ufology that some of
the visitors are actually interdimensional travelers- not physical at
all but can slow their etheric substances down and materialize here
for a limited length of time. We also should remember that much of
this "contact" information was published between 1950-1960 before the
popularization of Star Trek and Star Wars so many of these concepts
predate Sci Fi popular concepts.
> . We must also remember that our present condition on earth
is "mistake". Our evolutionary plan did not include living in the
materialized earth as it exists now but more in the "chemical etheric
state" (above hydrogen). We "dropped" down and make dense the
chemical etheric substances into our present earthly substances over
vast periods of time due to the Luciferic and later the Ahrimanic
influences (the Fall from Heaven or the "ethers" ). For all we know
there are planets and universes existing that are not physical like
ours but have gone through their evolutionary cycles and beings have
achieved human status. And they are now investigating the universe in
all levels of creation. This would again explain faster than
light "technologies" since they are "living" and functioning at a
different frequency- faster than physical light. This may sound like
true science fiction but so was the computer in 1940....>
...their physical bodies cannot be entirely dense -- more
> etheric in nature.
> > In a message dated 8/7/01 8:04:56 PM, JadMcCurdy@a... writes:
> > << Hi Dr. Starman and Jeff,
> > An interesting related exchange RE: the incarnation of spiritual
> > in terms of the possibility of actual physical UFOs and,
> > likelihood that these manifestations are actually astral beings
> > "elementals" to materialize their essence as an aspect of the
> Ahrimanic deception..... >>
> > Try reading Trevor James Constable's work, especially The
Cosmic Pulse of Life... photo of one of the elementals attached... >>
- << Previous post in topic Next post in topic >>