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2017Re: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being Exchange

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  • jeff auen
    Oct 3, 2001
      Are there not more interesting subjects to discuss??? I am now curious of your persistence on this one. For the umpteen time: My position based on recurring evidence and metaphysical information about the field and is as follows:
      • There are physical visitors in physical crafts visiting our planet from other physical planets outside of our solar system.
      • There are non physical "craft" or vehicles that exit interdimensionally and are not physical as we know it. These get confused with physical ones. These craft can manifest as distinct "metallic shapes" apart from the "blobs" identified by Reich and other bio-orgone theorists. Blobs can also be physical ships accelerating and decelerating from beyond light speed to light speed within our atmosphere as filmed in the famous Catalina footage in California
      • There are beings that are far craftier than humans that use etheric and mental technologies to deceive researchers and conventional men or women into believing certain ufo experiences. These beings do not belong our solar evolution and are not connected with Ahrimanic stream (though they may interact or be using each other)
      • There are positive and negative space visitors. Some want to help and some want our resources, biological uniqueness, or other aspects of our soul being.
      • The positive or supportive beings are said to be aware of the mystery school elders but do not necessarily interact with them often. Their agenda is extra solar.
      • There are too many sightings monthly to pooh pooh them all and label them as hallucinations or mental aberrations. Most researchers agree that at 10% are unexplainable and many have physical attributes and are not projections of the witnesses.
      • For some reason there are gaps and a lack of forthcoming knowledge of this phenomena from occult sources. Why I do not know but post modern (after 1950) information cannot be used to explain this phenomena entirely. And that goes for Steiner and other esotericists.
      That's all folks.
      Jeff Auen
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 11:46 AM
      Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being Exchange

      >>>I am tired of talking to a "ghost thinker" who is not open to any possibility other than a strictly "spiritual" and psychic interpretation.<<

      ******* 'Tired of talking' to us, meaning you have no interest in anyone's opinion but your own. And so, everyone who wishes to consider a possible spiritual dimension of any phenomema is to be dismissed as a 'ghost thinker'? Hey Jeff, have you ever heard of a guy named Steiner? Boy, you wouldn't like him either, then. He was dismissed with the same epithet by Lyndon LaRouche, I recall.

        I believe, Jeff, it is you who is showing yourself not open to possibilities. It is certainly peculiar how you avoid discussion of all the points raised that show that these things materialize and then dematerialize, and call the assertion that they do so a 'psychic' theory, once again showing you think only in 2 categories: 1.)physical or 2.)non-physical, and never the twain shall meet. It is interesting from a Reichian perspective, but never mind that for now.

      >>>Now I guess there are three categories- skeptical scientists, proponents, and psychic theorists...

         'Proponents' of what? I assume you mean the ships-from-other-planets theory. So to think about UFOs you have to be a proponent of that. I see.
         So, are Jacques Vallee and J. Allen Hynek, both of whom wrote extensively about UFOs as a para-physical phenomenon because of the observed materializations and dematerializations, to be classed as 'psychic theorists'? Interesting dualism, but neither man argued that the phenomenon is only immaterial, as for some strange reason you feel motivated to ascribe to us here.

      >>>When one has interviewed or seen interviews of  military personal, covert ops personal, and other witnesses who have touched, handled and studied "craft" pieces and engine technology, then trying to prove that its all an illusion of Ahriman seems pure fantasy...

      *******Name one. All the investigation so far shows the Roswell nuts are the ones inventing pure fantasy. One physical artifact of nonterrestrial source would electrify the scientific world and would be being talked about by every scientist who now dismisses the subject. So where are they? Oh, right, there's lots of them around but it's all being covered up. Give us a break.

      >>>Go to Steven Greer's site and the Disclosure Project. His new book and video has over 200 new interviews with govt personal and others who have been involved in crash retrievals, studies of hardware, etc. Talk to Jesse Marcel's son in Nevada for example, who is now an MD, and tell him he did not handle and examine alien artifacts and broken craft pieces when his father brought them home after a crash retrieval. I am sure he will reconsider his direct experience based on your arguments.

      *******Never heard of these fellows and no idea who they are, but go ahead and post their web sites. I'll bet it'll eventually be found they have no more evidence than other hoaxers and rumor-spreaders. "The X-Files" is FICTION, Jeff.

      >>>Theories are built on all the available evidence not attempts to twist data to fit a metaphysical theory.
      Jeff Auen

      *******But twisting it to fit a PHYSICAL theory is OK?
      'All the evdence' sure does not appear to include Constable's photos, now duplicated by other researchers, based on Steiner's knowledge of the ethers.

      Interesting what some people can tolerate or not.


      ----- Original Message -----

      >>>As mentioned in earlier posts with other AP and metaphysical proponents, there is just no way non physical beings can demonstrate the physical characteristics now being videotaped worldwide...

      *******Jeff, we don't seem to be getting through to you. Do you think a 'ghost' that can become dense enough to show up on a photograph is ALWAYS that densely physical? You seem to have a real problem conceiving that something can become physical (materialize) and then go back again (de-materialize)---I don't know why, with all the Star Trek-type stuff you accept. For you, it has to be either physical OR non-physical, no possible middle category.

      >>>( or in possession of the govt. That the US govt, England, Russia, and possibly other military branches have hard evidence is beyond question from eyewitness reports and actual work on such projects...

      *******It is certainly questionable, all the so-called 'evidence' being produced having come from people who never worked at the military facilities they claimed they saw things at (hoaxsters, nuts, etc.)

      >>>... thousands have witnessed disc and bell shaped objects and many have clearly videotaped them while standing on a crowded street with hundreds watching the same event. This objects reflect the sunlight off their surfaces, have shape, stay in view for 15 to 30 minutes, hover, go slowly forward or backwards, disappear in an instant only to suddenly reappear, etc. Jet fighters have flown by them as well.

      ******See above to avoid repeating the (to others) obvious.
          One thing: if you can only imagine these as physical ships-from-other-planets, how do you imagine that they 'instantly disappear and then reappear', hmmm?

      >>>Now if these were etheric or astral ships intruding into our atmosphere, the power of these beings must be great indeed to project into physical reality for many minutes at an event.<<

      *******Yes. Is that beyond imagining for some reason?

      >>>Nothing in the past annuals of esoteric or religious literature has indicated such an intrusion into dense material reality.

      *******Interesting assertion. What basis do you have for it? The White Brotherhood, of course, form bodies for themselves which last for years if needed. Do you recall how Babaji materialized an entire temple for Lahira Mahasaya to be initiated in in Autobiography Of A Yogi? Or how about the 'tulpa' or thought-form monk Lady Alexandra David-Neel materialized as described in her Magic and Mystery in Tibet? There's much other evidence that needs to be summarily dismissed to avoid what Constable proved using etheric physics.


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: >utopia_planetia@...
      To: >anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 10:55 AM
      Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being Exchange

      Hi Jeff,

      "Ship" does convey the dense idea of mode of travel because of our
      present culture.

      I beleive humanity, from all the planets of the solar system and
      maybe beyond, shares the condition of objectivity. Individuals have
      senses more or less projected outwardly -- an "I" aware of the
      physical surroundings and subjected to it by its physical, etheric
      and astral body. In this view, human beings not from Earth must use
      tools, such as ways of transportation, but surely not in the way NASA
      suggests. Probably more in etheric and elemental ways. Their
      relationship with the objective world must be tied in and felt at a
      deep inner level. Astral travel, without any outward support than
      from the beings's own energy must be conceived as well.

      > A very interesting idea. I don't think these fellows are coming
      over from these planets in "ships" but may be interacting in other
      elemental and etheric ways. There is a notion in ufology that some of
      the visitors are actually interdimensional travelers- not physical at
      all but can slow their etheric substances down and materialize here
      for a limited length of time. We also should remember that much of
      this "contact" information was published between 1950-1960 before the
      popularization of Star Trek and Star Wars so many of these concepts
      predate Sci Fi popular concepts.
      > . We must also remember that our present condition on earth
      is "mistake". Our evolutionary plan did not include living in the
      materialized earth as it exists now but more in the "chemical etheric
      state" (above hydrogen). We "dropped" down and make dense the
      chemical etheric substances into our present earthly substances over
      vast periods of time due to the Luciferic and later the Ahrimanic
      influences (the Fall from Heaven or the "ethers" ). For all we know
      there are planets and universes  existing that are not physical like
      ours but have gone through their evolutionary cycles and beings have
      achieved human status. And they are now investigating the universe in
      all levels of creation. This would again explain faster than
      light "technologies" since they are "living" and functioning at a
      different frequency- faster than physical light. This may sound like
      true science fiction but so was the computer in 1940....>
      ...their physical bodies cannot be entirely dense -- more
      >   etheric in nature.
      >   --- In anthroposophy@y..., DRStarman2001@a... wrote:
      >   >
      >   > In a message dated 8/7/01 8:04:56 PM, JadMcCurdy@a... writes:
      >   >
      >   > << Hi Dr. Starman and Jeff,
      >   >
      >   > An interesting related exchange RE: the incarnation of
      >   beings, both
      >   > in terms of the possibility of actual physical UFOs and,
      >   alternately, the
      >   > likelihood that these manifestations are actually astral beings
      >   using
      >   > "elementals" to materialize their essence as an aspect of the
      >   Ahrimanic
      >   > deception..... >>
      >   >
      >   > Try reading Trevor James Constable's work, especially The
      >   Pulse of
      >   > Life... photo of one of the elementals attached...

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