2004Re: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being Exchange
- Oct 2, 2001I am tired of talking to a "ghost thinker" who is not open to any possibility other than a strictly "spiritual" and psychic interpretation. Now I guess there are three categories- skeptical scientists, proponents, and psychic theorists. When one has interviewed or seen interviews of military personal, covert ops personal, and other witnesses who have touched, handled and studied "craft" pieces and engine technology, then trying to prove that its all an illusion of Ahriman seems pure fantasy as well. Go to Steven Greer's site and the Disclosure Project. His new book and video has over 200 new interviews with govt personal and others who have been involved in crash retrievals, studies of hardware, etc. Talk to Jesse Marcel's son in Nevada for example, who is now an MD, and tell him he did not handle and examine alien artifacts and broken craft pieces when his father brought them home after a crash retrieval. I am sure he will reconsider his direct experience based on your arguments.Theories are built on all the available evidence not attempts to twist data to fit a metaphysical theory.Jeff Auen----- Original Message -----From: DRStarman2001@...Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 6:51 AMSubject: Re: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being Exchange>>>As mentioned in earlier posts with other AP and metaphysical proponents, there is just no way non physical beings can demonstrate the physical characteristics now being videotaped worldwide...
*******Jeff, we don't seem to be getting through to you. Do you think a 'ghost' that can become dense enough to show up on a photograph is ALWAYS that densely physical? You seem to have a real problem conceiving that something can become physical (materialize) and then go back again (de-materialize)---I don't know why, with all the Star Trek-type stuff you accept. For you, it has to be either physical OR non-physical, no possible middle category.
>>>( or in possession of the govt. That the US govt, England, Russia, and possibly other military branches have hard evidence is beyond question from eyewitness reports and actual work on such projects...
*******It is certainly questionable, all the so-called 'evidence' being produced having come from people who never worked at the military facilities they claimed they saw things at (hoaxsters, nuts, etc.)
>>>... thousands have witnessed disc and bell shaped objects and many have clearly videotaped them while standing on a crowded street with hundreds watching the same event. This objects reflect the sunlight off their surfaces, have shape, stay in view for 15 to 30 minutes, hover, go slowly forward or backwards, disappear in an instant only to suddenly reappear, etc. Jet fighters have flown by them as well.
******See above to avoid repeating the (to others) obvious.
One thing: if you can only imagine these as physical ships-from-other-planets, how do you imagine that they 'instantly disappear and then reappear', hmmm?
>>>Now if these were etheric or astral ships intruding into our atmosphere, the power of these beings must be great indeed to project into physical reality for many minutes at an event.<<
*******Yes. Is that beyond imagining for some reason?
>>>Nothing in the past annuals of esoteric or religious literature has indicated such an intrusion into dense material reality.
*******Interesting assertion. What basis do you have for it? The White Brotherhood, of course, form bodies for themselves which last for years if needed. Do you recall how Babaji materialized an entire temple for Lahira Mahasaya to be initiated in in Autobiography Of A Yogi? Or how about the 'tulpa' or thought-form monk Lady Alexandra David-Neel materialized as described in her Magic and Mystery in Tibet? There's much other evidence that needs to be summarily dismissed to avoid what Constable proved using etheric physics.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 10:55 AM
Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being Exchange
"Ship" does convey the dense idea of mode of travel because of our
I beleive humanity, from all the planets of the solar system and
maybe beyond, shares the condition of objectivity. Individuals have
senses more or less projected outwardly -- an "I" aware of the
physical surroundings and subjected to it by its physical, etheric
and astral body. In this view, human beings not from Earth must use
tools, such as ways of transportation, but surely not in the way NASA
suggests. Probably more in etheric and elemental ways. Their
relationship with the objective world must be tied in and felt at a
deep inner level. Astral travel, without any outward support than
from the beings's own energy must be conceived as well.
To go back to the subject of the repopulating of Earth in the
previous epochs, was astral travel the only means by which
Saturnians, Jupiterians, Marsians and maybe others came? If yes, then
I don't understand two points: 1. Planet Earth had almost no human
life at a period of the Lemurian epoch according to Steiner; 2.
Racial traits are physical, more imparted by genetics than
reincarnation -- and then Steiner mentions also that at their
arrival, Luciferic forces influenced them throughout the generations
until they were leveled(Occult Science).
--- In anthroposophy@y..., "jeff auen" <pacbay@h...> wrote:
> Utopia - name please.
> A very interesting idea. I don't think these fellows are coming
over from these planets in "ships" but may be interacting in other
elemental and etheric ways. There is a notion in ufology that some of
the visitors are actually interdimensional travelers- not physical at
all but can slow their etheric substances down and materialize here
for a limited length of time. We also should remember that much of
this "contact" information was published between 1950-1960 before the
popularization of Star Trek and Star Wars so many of these concepts
predate Sci Fi popular concepts.
> . We must also remember that our present condition on earth
is "mistake". Our evolutionary plan did not include living in the
materialized earth as it exists now but more in the "chemical etheric
state" (above hydrogen). We "dropped" down and make dense the
chemical etheric substances into our present earthly substances over
vast periods of time due to the Luciferic and later the Ahrimanic
influences (the Fall from Heaven or the "ethers" ). For all we know
there are planets and universes existing that are not physical like
ours but have gone through their evolutionary cycles and beings have
achieved human status. And they are now investigating the universe in
all levels of creation. This would again explain faster than
light "technologies" since they are "living" and functioning at a
different frequency- faster than physical light. This may sound like
true science fiction but so was the computer in 1940, the micro
computer in 1975 and our frequent landings on the moon (with Mars
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: utopia_planetia@h...
> To: anthroposophy@y...
> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 7:17 AM
> Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being Exchange
> Something interesting to consider is that, as Steiner mentions in
> Occult Science and Occult History is that Saturnians, Jupiterians
> Marsians repopulated the Earth from the Lemurian to the Atlantean
> epoch. These beings are human, from the same human life wave of
> Earth period. Rudolf Steiner explains that they could not live on
> planet Earth because of its hostile conditions at the time, and
> other developmental reasons, specific to them (you can find all
> info in the the aforementioned books).
> Likewise, Steiner says that it is these beings that created the
> different races of the Earth when they came back(therefore
> a "physical" effect). Can reincarnation only account for such
> diversity in appearence?
> The question is, could have they come over with "spaceships"?
> some human beings still remained on these planets of the solar
> system? According to Steiner in "Occult Science", YES; some human
> beings, clearly mentioned as "human" stayed over. Their
> diffrent because of the different degrees of Ahrimaninc and
> influence. Those On Saturn, Steiner mentions, have almost escaped
> Luciferic influences.
> Obviously, their physical bodies cannot be entirely dense -- more
> etheric in nature.
> --- In anthroposophy@y..., DRStarman2001@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 8/7/01 8:04:56 PM, JadMcCurdy@a... writes:
> > << Hi Dr. Starman and Jeff,
> > An interesting related exchange RE: the incarnation of
> beings, both
> > in terms of the possibility of actual physical UFOs and,
> alternately, the
> > likelihood that these manifestations are actually astral beings
> > "elementals" to materialize their essence as an aspect of the
> > deception. Overall, I would think it is not possible for either
> view to
> > dominate. Together they help us remain open to the possibility
> > physically based life forms existing elsewhere in the universe,
> while perhaps
> > helping us to develop an overall vigilance and discernment as
> > origins and spiritual significance. I have not read Steiner's
> > really any ideas for that matter) on the spiritual significance
> > though, so I can only speak for myself here: I can only at this
> point in time
> > maintain vigilant skepticism. >>
> > Try reading Trevor James Constable's work, especially The
> Pulse of
> > Life.
> > Once more, a photo of one of the elementals attached...
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