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15963Re: Heretical Question

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  • carol
    Apr 1, 2008
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      RS: "...His (Ahriman) purpose was thwarted because he knew nothing of the divine plan whereby a being — the Christ — was to be sent to the Earth, a being who underwent death. Thus the intervention of Ahriman was possible, but the sharp edge was taken off his rule. "





      Rudolf Steiner: ...When we speak of the great truths of the past connected with man's earthly evolution, a modern man finds it very difficult to understand that the first men who lived on the earth did not possess a knowledge of the kind termed "knowledge" by us. The first men who lived on the earth were able to receive the wisdom of gods through atavistic, clairvoyant capacities.

      ...They did not receive these communications in a state of mind resembling today's dreaming state, but in a living intercourse with divine beings which took place spiritually, and where they received what these beings considered to be their own particular wisdom. This wisdom at first consisted of communications (if I may call them thus) of the gods concerning the abode of human souls in the divine world

      before descending into an earthly body.

      ...During that state of consciousness which I have just described,

      the gods taught human beings what the souls experienced before their descent into an earthly body through conception. Then men felt as if they were being reminded of something, and they found that the communications of the gods reminded them of their experiences in the world of the spirit and soul, before birth, i.e. before conception.

      ...This wisdom was of a special kind: namely, of such a kind, that people — strange as it may seem today — knew

      nothing of death. It may seem strange to you today, yet it is so: the oldest inhabitants of the earth knew nothing of death, just as the child knows nothing of death. The people who were instructed in the way indicated by me and passed on this instruction to others who still possessed an atavistic clairvoyance, became conscious at once of the fact that their soul-being had come down from divine-spiritual worlds into a body, and that it would leave this body. They considered this an advance in the life of the spirit and of the soul. Birth and death appeared to them as a metamorphosis, as something which is the beginning and end of something. Were we to draw this schematically we might say that people saw the human soul in its progressive evolution and considered life on earth as an interlude. But they did not see in the points "a" and "b" a beginning and an end, they only saw the uninterrupted stream of the life of spirit and soul.

      ...They did see, of course, that the people around them died. You will not think that I am comparing these ancient men with animals; for, although their outer aspect resembled that of animals, these oldest of men had a higher soul-spiritual nature. I have already explained this before. But just as an animal knows nothing of death when it sees another animal which is dead, so did these ancient men know nothing of death, for they received only the idea of an uninterrupted stream in the life of soul and spirit.

      Death was something pertaining to Maya, the great illusion, and it made no great impression on men, for they knew life, only.

      ...Men gradually came out of this frame of spirit.... Their souls became entangled in death, and out of man's feelings arose the question: what happens to the soul when man goes through death?

      ...in far distant ages people never contemplated death as an end. Their problem was at the most one dealing with the special nature of metamorphosis involved....they had some other conception of the way in which the life of spirit and soul continues. They thought about the nature of this continuation, but they did not think of death as an end.

      Only with the approach of the Mystery of Golgotha people really felt that death has a meaning and that life on earth is something that ends.This, of course, did not assume the form of a problem formulated in a philosophical or scientific way, but it entered the soul as a feeling. Men on earth had to come to this feeling, for it was necessary for the evolution of mankind that the understanding, or the intellect, should enter life on earth. But the intellect depends on the fact that we are able to die. I have often mentioned this. Man had therefore to become entangled in death. He had to become acquainted with death.The old ages in which man knew nothing of death were all non-intellectualistic. Men received their ideas through inspirations from the spiritual world and did not think about them. There was no intellect. But the intellect had to come. If we express it in a soul-spiritual way, the understanding could come only because man is able to die and carries within him all the time the forces of death. In a physical way, we might say that death can enter because man deposits salts, i.e. solid mineral substances, dead substances, not only in the body, but also in his brain. The brain has the constant tendency to deposit salt — I might say, toward an incomplete ossification. So that the brain contains a constant tendency toward death. This inoculation of death had to enter in mankind. And I might say, that the result of this necessary development — that death began to have a real influence in man's life — was the outward acquaintance with death. If men had remained the same as in the past, where they did not really know death, they would never have been able to develop an intellect, for the intellect is only possible in a world where death holds sway.

      ...This is how matters stand, seen from a human aspect

      . But they can also be contemplated from the aspect of the higher hierarchies, and then they will appear as follows: The higher hierarchies contain in their being the forces that have formed Saturn, the Sun, the Moon and finally the Earth. If the higher hierarchies had expressed their teachings amongst themselves, as it were, up to the Mystery of Golgotha, they would have said: We can form the Earth out of Saturn, Sun and Moon. But if the Earth were to contain only what we have placed into Saturn, Sun and Moon it would never have been able to develop beings who know something about death, and can therefore develop the intellect within them. We, the higher hierarchies, are able to let an Earth proceed out of the Moon, on which there are men who know nothing of death, and on which they cannot develop the intellect. It is not possible for us, higher hierarchies, to form the Earth in such a way that it is able to supply the forces which lead man towards the intellect. We must rely, for this, on an entirely different being, on a being who comes from another direction than our own — The Ahrimanic Being. Ahriman is a being who does not belong to our hierarchy. Ahriman comes into the stream of evolution from another direction. If we tolerate Ahriman in the evolution of the Earth, if we allow him a share in it, he brings us death, and with it, the intellect, and we can take up in the human being death and intellect. Ahriman knows death, because he is at one with the Earth and has trodden paths which have brought him into connection with the evolution of the Earth. He is an initiate, a sage of death, and for this reason he is the ruler of the intellect. The gods had to reckon with Ahriman — if I may express it in this way. They had to say: the evolution cannot proceed without Ahriman. It is only a question of admitting Ahriman into the evolution. But if Ahriman is admitted and becomes the lord of death and, consequently, of the intellect too, we forfeit the Earth, and Ahriman, whose sole interest lies in permeating the Earth with intellect, will claim the Earth for himself. The gods faced the great problem of losing to a certain extent their rule over the Earth in favour of Ahriman. There was only one possibility — that the gods themselves should learn to know something which they could not learn in their godly abodes which were not permeated by Ahriman — namely, that the gods should learn to know death itself, on the Earth, through one of their emissaries — the Christ. A god had to die on earth, and he had to die in such a way that this was not grounded in the wisdom of the gods, but in the human error which would hold sway if Ahriman alone were to rule. A god had to pass through death and he had to overcome death.

      Thus the Mystery of Golgotha meant this for the gods: a greater wealth of knowledge through the wisdom of death. If a god had not passed through death,

      the whole Earth would have become entirely intellectual, without ever reaching the evolution which the gods had planned for it from the very beginning.

      ...We might express approximately in this way the content of the esoteric teachings given by the Christ to his initiated disciples:

      it was the teaching of death, as seen from the scene of the divine world....If one wishes to penetrate into the real depths of this esoteric teaching, one must realize that he who understands the entire evolution of mankind knows that the gods have overcome Ahriman by using his forces for the benefit of the Earth, but his power has been broken because the gods themselves learnt to know death in the being of Christ. Indeed, the gods have placed Ahriman into the evolution of the earth, but, in making use of him, they have forced him to come down into the evolution of the earth without completing his own rulership. He who learns to know Ahriman since the Mystery of Golgotha and he who knew him before, knows that Ahriman has waited for the world-historic moment in which he will not only invade the unconscious and subconscious in man, as in the case since the days of Atlantis (you know this through my "Occult Science"), but will invade also man's consciousness. If we apply human expressions to the willing of gods, we might say that Ahriman has waited with longing for the moment in which to invade human consciousness with his power. His purpose was thwarted because he knew nothing of the divine plan whereby a being — the Christ — was to be sent to the Earth, a being who underwent death. Thus the intervention of Ahriman was possible, but the sharp edge was taken off his rule."




      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66" <holderlin66@...> wrote:
      > "By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a
      > sacrifice."
      > Hebrews 11:17
      > Stephen Hale brought:
      > "....is akin to the diminution of consciousness experienced by human
      > beings throughout the same time frame, as thinking effectively begins to
      > replace the last vestiges of the "old-moon clairvoyance" had by all
      > until Jahve's decree to sacrifice the "two-horned" ram instead, gave
      > Issac back to Abraham and allowed the Hebrew cultural stream to
      > propagate through Issac's son Jacob and his twelve sons. This act would
      > progressively see the diminishment of the old form of clairvoyance in
      > which Moses once beheld Jahve-Christ in the burning bush on Mount Sinai.
      > The Christ Event signaled the second sacrifice, in which a human being
      > *who was* a god actually died the death that Issac was saved from. This
      > act served to effectively terminate the old-moon clairvoyance, leaving
      > only a dwindling trace through the eighteen centuries in which the
      > Christ Angel saw the progressively forming spirit-loss perception grow
      > in mankind."
      > Bradford comments;
      > Alright let us look at this hanging chad of clinging, clinging onto
      > old-moon atavistic perception and having never been taught, having
      > refused to let go, having refused to move forward from the old form of
      > clairvoyance, the old-moon clairvoyance that has long been traded for
      > cognitive consciousness soul and intellectual soul pathways towards
      > Spiritual Science and thinking which contains both science and spiritual
      > vision in tied together. How do we find solid cognitive examples in the
      > current 21st century still clinging to these old forms and failing to
      > let go of them? Plus finding whole groups clinging and enabling those
      > who have failed to grasp any of the potent issues that Steiner wrestled
      > with for humanities sake with example after example and detail after
      > detail?
      > Now I am rarely interested in the sentient goobly gook of the subjective
      > futility of the immense ignorant idiots who attempt to claim some sort
      > of ability to live in this 21st century. Mostly the sentient soul can be
      > laughed at in Country Western music and trailer park double wides....
      > Naturaly international readers hardly know what i am referencing. Too
      > bad! But when the sentient soul actually comes right up to the fore of
      > what Steve brought and we find ourselves looking, not at the whole issue
      > that Steve brought, but a highly charged specific example... I have to
      > bring it up.
      > I have to because Anthro stupidity and inability to understand even the
      > easiest examples... I mean Issac and brain bound thinking that has
      > followed us all the way to Einstein and the usual idiots out of
      > Israel...could fill whole chapters of insight in just one area of how
      > Steiner followed the dawning of the Spring Sun rising in Aries and
      > before that rising in Egypt in Taurus and now currently in the Fishes...
      > In the friggin Fishes. Head and brain bound perception of Aries; Taurus
      > and the throat and Egyptian speech forces and initiation forces captured
      > in detail in Steiner's Mystery dramas; Destiny, Karma and the fishes,
      > where our feet take us, NOW! It isn't the water bearer now, it isn't
      > the age of Aquarius.
      > Steiner spent time understanding the Abraham and Isaac sacrifice and of
      > course if we were at all intelligent and of course very few newbies have
      > the kind of education offered by Spiritual Science, we would understand
      > as well the age of the Golden Fleece and the event in the Ram. Thus
      > idols tossed out of the Hebrews and Saul's well oiled brain and sense
      > perception and shrunken dried out horns... horns that might even arise
      > in the heads of human beasts clairvoyantly again, as the Main Lesson
      > Plan out of Revelation reveals... that the two horned ram and the human
      > brain and Moses painted with rams horns actually means the pituitary and
      > pineal.... Well chapters and chapters could be brought to the
      > observations and naturally most Anthro students would merely mumbe and
      > change channels and reach out for more giggles instead of enjoying and
      > enriching themselves in the Michael feast that could be shared with the
      > accuracy and interest of the Consciousness Soul.
      > Instead, I take below the most sentient soul and awful clinging to still
      > the old-moon atavistic clairvoyance that has been utterly forsaken and
      > lost as an example to show newbies and students just what is at stake.
      > What type of observations you can make with Spiritual Science if you
      > remain vaguely awake and aware. That discounts most of our fellow
      > Anthros who have hang on lists so that they can splash each other back
      > and forth...They apparently won't or refuse to bring connections
      > together to fart let alone see how Spiritual Science is solidly correct
      > and even in the following example what a tragedy, a tragedy that Michael
      > Intel hasn't yet dripped down to this dumb basin of human idiots...
      > Michael Intel hasn't elaborated and worked through things in order to
      > serve even these utter misguided morons who stubbornly cling, cling to a
      > past perception of reality and cannot budge.
      > http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/13776
      > <http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/13776>
      > "By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a
      > sacrifice."
      > Hebrews 11:17
      > "This Easter Sunday, 11-year-old Kara Neumann of Weston, Wisconsin, died
      > of diabetic ketoacidosis, a curable condition. While Kara was bedridden
      > suffering waves of nausea and vomiting and excessive thirst and could
      > not talk, her parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, knelt in prayer and
      > refused to seek medical treatment.
      > Kara's aunt called 911from California and told the dispatcher that
      > her niece was severely ill and that, "We've been trying to get
      > [Leilani] to take Kara to the hospital for a week, a few days now . . .
      > but she is very religious and is refusing."
      > When Kara stopped breathing, her father's faith weakened and he
      > dialed 911. Following the ambulance to the hospital, Leilani called the
      > prayer elders of the Unleavened Bread Ministry, an online church that
      > shuns medical intervention, and asked them to pray that the Lord would
      > raise her daughter up. Kara was pronounced dead at the hospital.
      > Predictably, there was no resurrection in Weston, Wisconsin this Easter
      > Sunday.
      > Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin, who is investigating the death,
      > told reporters that the Neumanns are "not crazy." He went on to
      > explain, "They believed up to the time she stopped breathing that
      > she was going to get better. They just thought it was a spiritual
      > attack. They believed that if they prayed enough she would get better .
      > . . they said it was the course of action they would take again."
      > Kara's three siblings are staying with relatives until the
      > investigation is completed, but Chief Vergin assured reporters,
      > "There is no abuse or signs of abuse that we can see." Vergin is
      > correct . . . sort of. Refusing life-saving medical care to their
      > remaining children as "the course of action they would take
      > again" is not child abuse, it is premeditated negligent homicide.
      > Unfortunately, the death of a child at the praying hands of religious
      > parents is not uncommon and is sanctioned by state and federal religious
      > exemption laws. Under Wisconsin law, parents cannot be accused of child
      > abuse or negligent homicide if they fervently believed prayer was the
      > best treatment for a disease or life-threatening condition.
      > In 1986, 7-year-old Amy Hermanson of Sarasota, Florida, died of diabetes
      > because her mother and father's religious beliefs forbade medical
      > treatment. The parents were convicted of child abuse and third-degree
      > murder. Florida's Supreme Court overturned the conviction in 1992.
      > In1989, 11-year-old Ian Lundman of Independence, Minnesota, died of
      > diabetes because his mother and stepfather relied on prayer to cure him.
      > Ian's death was ruled a homicide and his parents were indicted. A
      > district court dismissed the case because Minnesota's religious
      > exemption rule recognized prayer as medical treatment. Minnesota's
      > Appeals Court and Supreme Court upheld the ruling.
      > In 2003, federal legislation "sanctioned" the killing of
      > children by religious parents in the "Child Abuse Prevention and
      > Treatment Act." The act requires that states receiving federal grant
      > dollars must include "failure to provide medical treatment" in
      > their definition of child neglect. However, to placate the powerful
      > Christian Science lobby and other fundamentalist groups, legislators
      > included the following caveat: "Nothing in this Act shall be
      > construed as establishing a Federal requirement that a parent or legal
      > guardian provide a child any medical service or treatment against the
      > religious beliefs of the parent or legal guardian."
      > Only by a twisted, fundamentalist logic—pandered to by
      > politicians—in the overly religious United States, which is one
      > Supreme Court vote away from overturning Roe v. Wade in order to protect
      > the rights of an undifferentiated bundle of cells in a woman's womb,
      > can thinking, feeling, trusting, loving children be allowed to suffer
      > and die because of the fanatical religious beliefs of their parents . .
      > .whether the child holds those beliefs or not.
      > It is unfortunate that parents, who obviously love their children,
      > regard their faith in a god with a lousy track record for healing as
      > unassailable, neither by the love nor by the trust of their children.
      > Between 1975 and 1995, 172 children died in the United States because
      > their parents refused medical treatment on religious grounds. One
      > hundred and forty of those children died from conditions which medical
      > science had a 90 percent track record of curing.
      > The National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect concluded, "There are
      > more children actually being abused in the name of God than in the name
      > of Satan." As Gerald Witt, mayor of Lake City, Florida, said about
      > local faith-based deaths, "It may be necessary for some babies to
      > die to maintain our religious freedoms. It may be the price we have to
      > pay; everything has a price."
      > But religious zealots need not pay the ultimate price of sacrificing
      > their children on the altar of faith. It says so in the first book of
      > their bible. "Abraham built an altar . . . and laid the wood . . .
      > and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar. And the angel of the
      > Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham . . . lay not
      > thine hand upon the lad . . . for now I know that thou fearest God . .
      > ." (Gen. 22:9-12).
      > Should parents decide to disregard both their god's admonition
      > against sacrificing children to prove a fanatical faith and
      > society's laws against homicide, they should be held accountable to
      > a secular "higher power" in a court of law that does not accept
      > the strength of a person's religious belief as evidence of their
      > guilt or innocence."

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